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Re: 1/2 chaps, covers and height
- To: krisolko@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
- Subject: Re: 1/2 chaps, covers and height
- From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
- Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 08:01:36 -0600 (CST)
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- Reply-To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
Kris, Big Red is a big boy. Comes in at 16 and 2. Weight at 1200#. What
a great stride. Yep, it takes a little more to swing this old but up there,
but is it ever worth the ride. Once you own a long strided horse I can't
imagine going back to a short one. We have won a few, placed in some
others and shown in a lot. I'll race you some day if you are willing to
match my weight. 233 # and trying to drop a few before theOsceola 2000
meter free style next week in Fl.. Jerry Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing
JABASK KNIGHT
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 08:12:06 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: horse sizes
In-Reply-To: <19971231.212419.6454.2.krisolko@juno.com>
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I am a big person, 5'6", and ride in the heavyweight category. My horse is
15.1HH and all leg. He's not a heavy horse, but he's athletic and agile and
very fast. Even with me on him, he stays at the head of the pack. Star
outwalks every horse we've ridden with. Most horses have to trot to keep up
with his walk, even big horses.
He's got a short, strong, flat back, good leg bone, big feet and a very
typey Arab face and neck.
Star is a 10 year old grade Arab gelding, I got for $800 because no one
wanted him. The stable that sold him to me, celebrated when I drove away
with him. They thought he was a difficult horse. He just needed a job to do
and someone to give him a lot of attention.
Last year was our first year of competition. We won our first 15 mile CTR,
placed 4th and 2nd in our next two, and finished our first 25 endurance
easily.
MOst of the horses I've had in my life have been about 15HH, but my very
first horse was 14.2, a part-Arab pinto. I was a barrel racer then and she
was a little keg of dynamite. She could really scoot around those barrels
and ran like she was a big horse.
chris paus & star
At 09:09 PM 12/31/97 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>>Next question - What size horse do you prefer to ride. if you are
>>either super
>>tall or super short, tell us so we can take it into account.
>
>I prefer tall. I ride a 16.2 horse and have never been beat in a race to
>the finish
>
>Kris
>
>
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 09:23:58 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Pat Gluckin <a1234@gte.net>
Subject: AERC membership
Will new endurance enthusiasts be able to sign up for AERC membership at the
convention? If so, what do we need to have available (other than $)?
Pat
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From: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
To: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Endurance Fashion?
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:06:03 -0700
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Having been a blue jeans and cowboy boot type all my life, I quickly =
figured out that Wranglers =3D skin loss when competing in endurance. So =
despite being a long and lanky type, I am looking at purchasing the =
spandex riding pants. What brands have the rest of you guys tried, =
vendors?
I have the feeling that my cowboy boots and spandex may not be the best =
fashion statement, so what type of boot or shoe do you prefer? I have =
seen quite a few people in running shoes, but somehow I don't think that =
I would feel comfortable riding in them.
I expect that the new fashion statement might get some real strange =
looks from some of the "cowboy" crowd I ride with, so the Wranglers & =
boots won't be retired completely <g>.=20
Bruce & Star (No Horselaughs allowed!!!)
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Reply-To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 10:37:53 -0600 (CST)
To: bmurdock@cyberhighway.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
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Bruce, I get my husband's spandex at a store called Early Winters
1-800-458-4438, they carry different types,
Jerry has been this sport for years, he used to be a jeans man . He also
wears tights (pantyhose) underneath to
prevent rubs on the legs, calfs... We have also found some at Walmart in
the women's section...Be careful when ordering. The idea of spandes is to
get a tight fit. If you think you would wear a size large then order a
medium. Jerry and Diane at Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT
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Reply-To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 10:46:27 -0600 (CST)
To: bmurdock@cyberhighway.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
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Bruce, Forgot to add something for your foot wear. A couple of years ago I
tried a pair of Ropers, model #20-320-204. What a teriffic shoe .
Actually, its like a tennis shoe with good leather, lots of padding in the
sole. The leather is vented and has taken an extreme beating, yet the boot
has held together. Can't say that for some other big brands that I've
tried in the past. Stick with the model no. above. Roper makes a boot
with suede leather. Tried it. Not enough side support for a 50 or 100
miler. Hope this helps you this comeing year. Happy New Year. Power to
the Heavyweights!!!!!!!!Jerry Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK
KNIGHT
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From: Klc5355 <Klc5355@aol.com>
Message-ID: <509b6e62.34abc9d9@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:52:39 EST
To: bmurdock@cyberhighway.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
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In a message dated 98-01-01 11:15:17 EST, you write:
<< I am looking at purchasing the spandex riding pants. What brands have the
rest of you guys tried, vendors?
>>
Hi Bruce, I ride in Nike running tights. They seem to fit better than any of
the riding tights I have and are a lot cheeper, about 29-39 dollars. They last
as long and if its cold I wear 2 pair of them. I love my Ariat boots, and I
can even get off and run in them on steep hills, add in the half chaps and I
have my lower leg protection, and the package doesnt look bad either. And I
also had a hard time giving up the jeans and boots, these running tights will
fit under a pair of jeans and do stop the rubs. But it is too warm in the
summer.
Ken Cook
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:48:19 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
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Jerry Fruth wrote:
>
> Bruce, Forgot to add something for your foot wear. A couple of years ago I
> tried a pair of Ropers, model #20-320-204. What a teriffic shoe .
I'll enthusiastically agree. These have been the BEST made riding shoes
I've ever had, and the price is reasonable.
As for tights, I like Carrousel Tights. Very comfy, no binding. I
prefer the cotton lycra for the grip (as opposed to nylon lycra).
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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From: Vickie Smith <kiwana@sover.net>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: FW: ridecamp-d Digest V97 #808
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:19:43 -0500
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As I was "catching up" on posts, I ran across the thread on the free =
filly... This reminded me of a beautiful, well-bred QH filly that I =
acquired some years ago with similar outlook on life! It turned out =
that Velvet had a brain tumor. I sure hated to see her killed and just =
because the opportunity presented itself, I had a very complete autopsy =
done by myself (vet tech.) and a vet student, and a very nice vet who =
was helping us pass an anatomy class. We sure didn't expect to find =
anything-much less the tumor. This was the major cause of the filly's =
behavior problem according to the vet. Just food for thought...
Vickie Smith
Lincoln, VT
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:33:59, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: subject
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Please, yall, remember when you post several hundred people may be reading
it, and PLEASE keep this subject endurance related...rescues, etc. belong
on EQUINE-L, not here. Thanks!
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
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Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:00:13 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>, "Jo Harper" <mjo@navix.net>
Subject: Re: Jo Harper and the Rescue Posts
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:22:24 -0800
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I guess I better jump in here. I was the one to e-mail Jo privately about
the bcc. I guess I didn't realize that she thought I had some official
capacity. So let it be clear now - I do not. I had indicated to her that I
did not think using blind carbon copies was illegal or even contrary to net
etiquette. They do however get trapped by my spam filters which are still
being tested. It is for that reason that I e-mailed to find out what she was
doing.
For Jo's benefit, Steph Teeter is administrative contact for ridecamp. She
is the one to make any decisions about appropriate content in posts to
ridecamp.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Jo Harper <mjo@navix.net>
<
>[snip]
>I did receive an inquiry from the Ridecamp list administrator about the
>blind cc's under which my messages were sent. I apologized for any list
>infractions that might have occurred and assured him that I understood if
>the messages could not be posted. He responded that the messages had gone
>through and that they were fine to be posted, that he was only inquiring
>about the way the the transmissions came through, something about because
>they were blind cc's they fell into his filters. I hope I am correctly
>characterizing my memory of his posts to me, and I invite him to say
>otherwise if not. So I guess that this list owner did make up his mind, as
>you did yours. While you're sure entitled to, as you said, "ban forever"
>my posts to Morganlist, I wonder that you felt a need to share your
>personal dislike of my posts through the tone and comments to this other
list.
>
[snip]
>jo
>
>__________________________________________
>Jo Harper & Guy
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From: TrotALongK <TrotALongK@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4d1f5fdd.34abf598@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:59:17 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Horses for sale
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Okay, here we go: my New Years Resolution is to stop collecting horses and
only keep the ones that really “earn” their living, which are my 2 Arabs, Zuma
and Scatris. The rest of the bunch are registered Missouri Fox Trotters, all
with exceptional personalities, healthy and strong. I would like to find
loving new owners for all or at least one or two of them. All 3 are very
people friendly, easy going and have no vices. They are well taken care of,
current on worming, trimming etc..
Let’s start with SIERRA: he’s a pretty Missouri Fox Trotter colt, born June 16
‘97. We imprinted him at birth and worked regularly with him since. He leads,
ties, loads etc. Although he can be a little power house when playing with his
pasture buddies, once you put a halter on him he’s very attentive and calm and
even people who are unfamiliar with foals can handle him easily.
Sierra is a big bay boy who should mature around 15.2-3h. We weaned him in
early November since he was pretty strong and independent already. His mom is
Royal Blue’s Princess, a Poole’s Blue Boy granddaughter (see below). Dad is
Mountain Music Sunrise, whom I’ve never met but who’s supposed to have sired a
number of CTR champs. (I’m not very good with blood lines...)
Asking $1500.
PRINCESS (Blue’s Royal Blue & Merry Boy’s Flipper) is Sierra’s mom. She’s 16
years, healthy and sound, of grey colour and 15.2h. She’s the sweetest mare
I’ve ever met, alert but always calm. From the first moment I’ve seen this
horse I had a big feeling of respect for her. She’s a caretaker, wether it’s
with her babies or her rider. She has exceptional ground manners and truly
enjoys attention. After a number of foals we currently put her back to work on
the trails. She loves to go and is very sure footed on our rocky and sometimes
very steep trails.
Princess will make a wonderful horse, especially for someone who needs a
little confidence. She’s great with kids but with her strong conformation she
can also carry a heavy weight rider.
Asking $2200.
Last but not least there is REBEL.. He’s a coming 3year old Missouri Traveler
grandgrandgrand...son, chestnut and 15.1h. He’s been with me since he was 11
month old and he has turned from a shy little guy into a handsome and
selfconfident gelding who now runs the pasture. After plenty of ground work I
slowly started him “under saddle” last year : I usually jump on bareback with
a halter and he seems to enjoy this funny new game....
Asking $2200.
If you’re interested in any of these horses please email me privately. Good
homes with horse company are important. We are in So.Cal. in the L.A. area.
Kirsten
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:11:42 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801012011.MAA02791@fsr.com>
Subject: saddle
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: beth
Email: jeb@sedona.net
Hi! I would appreciate suggestions/information based on your experience, please. I need to find a new saddle.
I am a large (200#)adult female who loves to trail ride and do search/rescue. Have ridden Foxtrotters for past 15 years with custom Fallis western saddles but have a new Foxtrotter that sports a short back so my present saddles are too long for him.
My saddle time is limited somewhat by having to make a living but am in the saddle for 6-8 hours a day when possible and need one which offers both my horse and self comfort and has tons of rings to tie on all our "stuff."
Via the web, I have seen Steele, Pathfinder, Saare and Chiron--the latter has a unique tree concept which is most intriguing. (Chiron at www.endurance.net/sportsaddle/design.html)
Thanks very much for your help.
t@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801012011.MAA02791@fsr.com>
Subject: saddle
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: beth
Email: jeb@sedona.net
Hi! I would appreciate suggestions/information based on your expe4974 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001527 06452775022 0013127 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA03556 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:18:21 -0800 (PST)
From: TrotALongK <TrotALongK@aol.com>
Message-ID: <34db139d.34abf7ed@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:09:15 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: 16ft stock trailer 4sale
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Since I'm only going to keep 2 horses I don't need my 16ft Livestock Trailer
anymore. It's a '90 WW bumperpull and I would like to get $2000 for it. It's
not pretty (the first owner used it to haul cattle) but very functional. We
put in a new floor about 1 1/2 years ago and have only used it a few times
since. Located in Los Angeles area.
Kirsten
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From: "Cheryl Newbanks" <horsetrails@inficad.com>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Controlled Starts vs Non Controlled
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:27:22 -0700
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Hi All,
I've been giving some thought to the controlled start vs non controlled
starts in LD rides. My first ride was a non controlled start and I believe
due to that fact the whole character of the ride was effected. Actually
due to the non controlled nature of the start my first ride was actually
more like a race! My horse got really fired up and I had trouble rating
his speed. There were 40 horses and they all left at the same time like a
bat out of hell at a full gallop. We actually got to the 6 mile marker in
20 minutes, faster then I wanted to go on a first ride.
But my next ride was a nice controlled start, we had 2 leaders that we
walked then trotted out to the 1 mile marker together. Everyone actually
got to know one another, my horse was very calm and controlled, and the
whole mood of the ride was more relaxed. I learned more from that ride
then I did the first one.
Things I learned: 1st ride, pretty much what goes on in the vet check
because that was the only place we slowed down long enough to look around!
2nd ride: rider cordiality, rating my horse so I have more horse left at
the end, reading ribbons (actually had time to see them!). Differences in
my horse: 1st ride a maniac, he got tired the last 8 miles, got A-'S and
B's on his vet card.
Second ride: Straight A's on his card, I found out that when he isn't
emotionally tired from trying to pass the head horse that I've got tons of
horse left at the end of a LD, I can put him anywhere in the pack and he
will accept it. He dropped less weight too then the first ride. All in
all the second ride was a much more educational and pleasant experience, it
felt more like our motto "To finish is to win".
So I'd be interested in hearing from you ridecampers what you think of
controlled vs non-controlled, what you're experience has been with the two?
Personally I think ALL LD's should have controlled starts. After all
aren't LD's a great tool for learning what to do and what not to do? Also,
what about the people who don't have a good base on their horses and they
leave out of there like a bat out of hell and end up getting pulled 1st
check? Isn't a controlled start another means of protecting our horses
from our own ignorance? Yeah I know, that is the rider's responsibility,
but not all riders always take the responsibility to educate themselves on
conditioning, feeding, etc... WE'VE ALL SEEN THOSE RIDERS! So OK it could
be said that a controlled start may be a way in preventing the injuries to
horses that give our sport bad Press!
So come on gang, this list had been endurance topic deprived lately so lets
stir it up give me some feedback!
Cheryl Newbanks
horsetrails@inficad.com
Just In Time Ranch
Buckeye, AZ
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:40:56 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 12:40:16 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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To: MS LOUISE D BURTON <XXDU78A@prodigy.com>
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MS LOUISE D BURTON wrote
> it, and PLEASE keep this subject endurance related...rescues, etc. belong
Great! Then let's hear some endurance stuff! As much as everyone gabs
at rides <BG> I *know* someone out there has something to say!
How about some ride reports? I know there have been rides on the
calendar, has no one gone to them??
tracy
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <63e77a42.34ac03a6@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:59:16 EST
To: horsetrails@inficad.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Controlled Starts vs Non Controlled
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Hi, Cheryl--
As a ride manager, I have run rides both ways, and I think the rushing off
problem has more to do with who is there than it does with how I start them.
At a lot of the LD rides here, the riders go out of camp almost as if it was a
contest to see who can leave LAST! ("After you!" "No, after you!") By the
same token, when you have lots of money, marbles and chalk on the line (eg my
Circuit Rider 50, not LD, but a hot race because it was last of the season and
also IAHA regional championship) I led out with my car and just about had
people busting over the back of it when I pulled off. The race was on, and we
were half a mile out of camp. My advice: If you think the leaders are going
to go like h--- and you don't want to, drop back and leave with the second or
third group out of camp that is leaving more sanely.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:29:55 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield)
Subject: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
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In my on-going friendly arguements with a long-distance trail riding friend
the subject of the 'best height for trail horses" comes up frequently. He
(and me too when I'm back up there visiting-God's country-the Canadian
rockies) rides trails that often have logs across them, steep banks, mud
holes, bogs, deep creeks, rivers, and other hazards. His contention is
that a large (15:3-17 hand) horse is faster at a walk and trot and much
better over this type of terrain. Sadly, I have to agree when it comes to
logs across the trail and some of the banks his French Trotter/Saddlebred
16:2 gelding breezes over. But, am I likely to encounter much of this in
endurance races as such?
The one and only I have ridden in was in rough country (the Rockies) and
had several deep fords and a truly horse-eating mud hole-thank goodness I
was early to it, before it got really churned up -so soft that a couple of
horses nearly were very nearly mired and one unwise rider who dismounted in
the middle of it darn near disappeared!
I have a green 14:3 gelding who will be hard pressed to keep up to Daniel's
gelding in the blowdown but whom I think will blow the socks off the
bigger, bulkier horse over a long ride and is neat and nippy under the
branches that nearly decapitate riders way up there!
Do many (any) rides have hazards like the above and so is a leggier horse
an advantage in this way?
Ann
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:51:49 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: Controlled Starts vs Non Controlled
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My experience:
With controlled starts: Hate them. I've been on rides where you HAD to start the
ride with eveyone else on the controlled start....then get shoved into the middle
of the pack somewhere when the pack races off.
Much prefer:
Non-controlled starts! I prefer to leave 15-20 minutes behind....try to pretend
that we are out for a morning stroll....even though Gabe knows better. But I much
prefer NOT being in the middle of a pack of crazies at the start. Too much for
Gabe to deal with...he goes bonkers.
--
Deanne Del Vecchio
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
BOZ SADDLES: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/5157/boz.htm
My page on trails in Tahoe: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/5157/
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:05:47 EST
To: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
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Ann, most managers spend hours and hours clearing trail so such hazards don't
exist. Pretty rare problem unless they come down on Friday night...
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 15:17:57 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Subject: Re: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
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I had always been told that a smaller horse has an advantage in rough
county, and indeed, my 14'2 h gelding is a mountain goat....he can go
over or through anything you can point him at. He seems to be faster in
rough county than alot of the larger horses we ride with.
As always, there are exceptions, and the 15'2 h gelding we bought is all
legs and neck. Even at a hand taller than the other horse, he weighs in
about the same. He has an incredibly fast walk, and in the rough
country, puts his nose almost on the ground and just glides over
everything. (when he isn't spooking, that is) <G>
The nose almost to the ground caused another problem however....my
biothane breastcoller rubbed him raw everywhere...even the top of his
neck where the strap comes over. has anyone else had this problem?
So maybe it just comes down to the individual horse rather than the
tallest or smallest?
I've never been on an endurance ride that had hazards like you
described, though our training trails have plenty.
tracy
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 16:43:50 -0600
To: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Hi Bruce,
For footwear, try the sneakers designed for riding. They are terrific! And
nicely unisex. I won't go back to regular boots after wearing the riding
sneakers.
Hey you macho types -- On my way back from a long ride today, my Star and I
saw a jogger who was definitely not concerned about anyone questioning his
manhood. He was wearing HOT PINK spandex jogging tights and running through
a neighbhorhood in rural Kansas where you are just as likely to meet up
with some Bubba types!
Now I'm not advocating hot pink on guys -- just wanted you to know some
guys are confident enough to handle it!
chris paus & star
At 09:06 AM 1/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Having been a blue jeans and cowboy boot type all my life, I quickly
figured out that Wranglers = skin loss when competing in endurance. So
despite being a long and lanky type, I am looking at purchasing the spandex
riding pants. What brands have the rest of you guys tried, vendors?
>
> I have the feeling that my cowboy boots and spandex may not be the best
fashion statement, so what type of boot or shoe do you prefer? I have seen
quite a few people in running shoes, but somehow I don't think that I would
feel comfortable riding in them.
>
>I expect that the new fashion statement might get some real strange looks
from some of the "cowboy" crowd I ride with, so the Wranglers & boots won't
be retired completely <g>.
>
>Bruce & Star (No Horselaughs allowed!!!)
>
>
>
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From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Re: Controlled Starts vs Non Controlled
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Cheryl Newbanks wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I've been giving some thought to the controlled start vs non controlled
> starts in LD rides. My first ride was a non controlled start and I believe
> due to that fact the whole character of the ride was effected. Actually
> due to the non controlled nature of the start my first ride was actually
> more like a race! My horse got really fired up and I had trouble rating
> his speed. There were 40 horses and they all left at the same time like a
> bat out of hell at a full gallop. We actually got to the 6 mile marker in
> 20 minutes, faster then I wanted to go on a first ride.
>
> But my next ride was a nice controlled start, we had 2 leaders that we
> walked then trotted out to the 1 mile marker together. Everyone actually
> got to know one another, my horse was very calm and controlled, and the
> whole mood of the ride was more relaxed. I learned more from that ride
> then I did the first one.
>
> Things I learned: 1st ride, pretty much what goes on in the vet check
> because that was the only place we slowed down long enough to look around!
> 2nd ride: rider cordiality, rating my horse so I have more horse left at
> the end, reading ribbons (actually had time to see them!). Differences in
> my horse: 1st ride a maniac, he got tired the last 8 miles, got A-'S and
> B's on his vet card.
> Second ride: Straight A's on his card, I found out that when he isn't
> emotionally tired from trying to pass the head horse that I've got tons of
> horse left at the end of a LD, I can put him anywhere in the pack and he
> will accept it. He dropped less weight too then the first ride. All in
> all the second ride was a much more educational and pleasant experience, it
> felt more like our motto "To finish is to win".
>
> So I'd be interested in hearing from you ridecampers what you think of
> controlled vs non-controlled, what you're experience has been with the two?
> Personally I think ALL LD's should have controlled starts. After all
> aren't LD's a great tool for learning what to do and what not to do? Also,
> what about the people who don't have a good base on their horses and they
> leave out of there like a bat out of hell and end up getting pulled 1st
> check? Isn't a controlled start another means of protecting our horses
> from our own ignorance? Yeah I know, that is the rider's responsibility,
> but not all riders always take the responsibility to educate themselves on
> conditioning, feeding, etc... WE'VE ALL SEEN THOSE RIDERS! So OK it could
> be said that a controlled start may be a way in preventing the injuries to
> horses that give our sport bad Press!
>
> So come on gang, this list had been endurance topic deprived lately so lets
> stir it up give me some feedback!
>
> Cheryl Newbanks
> horsetrails@inficad.com
> Just In Time Ranch
> Buckeye, AZIam considering trying a 25/LD after field trial season ends in the
spring,and if it starts like a race I'm going to have trouble! I'll just
hang back from the start-not let Chico even SEE the group leave,then
we'll follow his nose a few minutes later,I think. Even at that, he'll be
cross-cantering on me. On the other hand,such situations are no doubt
unavoidable at some time during any event,and if my horse gets into a
panic to join horses going faster than I can safely go,I can get off and
wait a few minutes."Chico,you stupid #*@%<! If'd you let ME have the
throttle,we could probably go that fast!"
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From: nevadaghostridr@webtv.net (L Eisele)
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 15:18:49 -0800
To: horsetrails@inficad.com (Cheryl Newbanks)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net (Ridecamp)
Subject: Re: Controlled Starts vs Non Controlled
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Cheryl, re: control starts...some rides that have a very flat start
with pavement the first 1/2 mile, I like to be controlled. The Derby
Ditch ride here is always a fast ride and has such a start for the first
1/2 mile. Thank goodness. I'm a middle to the back of the pack starter
but alot depends on the kind of start. I may start at the front if the
ride has a good hill at the beginning. I LOVE a hill at the start.
It is easier to control the horse and the edge is off by the time you
crest the top.
Linda
Linda Eisele & Sareei and
hubby, Allen & the Iceman
& the young Lakota
nevadaghostridr@webtv.net
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 17:26:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
In-Reply-To: <34AC1615.7EBD@idt.net>
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> I had always been told that a smaller horse has an advantage in rough
> county, and indeed, my 14'2 h gelding is a mountain goat....he can go
> over or through anything you can point him at. He seems to be faster in
> rough county than alot of the larger horses we ride with.
I'll second that. Itty Bitty Lakota at 14h runs circles around all the
other horses at my barn on the trails -- but often gets left in the dust
on the straightaway. :) We recently trailered to a friend's barn and rode
with 2 TB mares whose riders kept exclaiming over how "sure-footed" Lakota
is, how he zigged and zagged around the trees, fallen logs, over streams,
etc., where their big TBs were stumbling and rocking from side to side.
It may be a breed thing too, I dunno, but that compact little body of his
can go really fast on rough terrain. And he absolutely LOVES to jump
logs, stumps, holes, etc. (in spite of the fact that I don't really know
how to jump myself :) so height doesn't affect that in anyway. He just
sails right over anything he can't go around quickly, pops in and out of
holes and muddy patches, and keeps on going and going and going :)))
Glenda & Lakota (just call me The Energizer Pony)
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From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
> with 2 TB mares whose riders kept exclaiming over how "sure-footed" Lakota
> is, how he zigged and zagged around the trees, fallen logs, over streams,
When my husband is riding behind me he often comments that Pro just
lengthens or shortens his stride to miss rocks or holes in the trail.
When he was riding the old (and half blind) Quarter mare, they would hit
every single thing in the trail...maybe she was going by feel!
The tall arab seems to do pretty well missing things too, what you have
to watch for with him is the unexpected leaps 6 feet to the
side....he's coming 10 this year...dare I hope he'll ever mature?
tracy
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:16:45 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: ride food
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Santa brought me a copy of "The One Pan Gourmet" and suddenly I'm getting
very enthusiastic about ride food! (Has anyone made the Hudson Bay Bread
for vet check sandwiches? It sounds like it has good potential! :)
I know there were a few posts this summer about what to eat during breaks
that's filling and won't upset your tummy, and food you can carry with
you, and while reading my new book, which has lots of yummy recipes for
night-before and after-ride meals, I started thinking about compiling a
Ride Food FAQ that would cover "just before" & "during" ride foods. Anyone
care to contribute? Just send me ideas or simple recipes and I'll
collect them for awhile and put them in a FAQ that Steph can post on
www.endurance.net.
(Somebody stop me if there's already one up. I thought I'd read all the
FAQs online already, but I coulda missed one, and I can't get the site up
right now to double-check.)
(Tracy, are you happy? I'm trying to get another new thread going! <bg>)
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: MBowers472 <MBowers472@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:15:40 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: need info on Tevis
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I have misplaced Larry Suddjian's email address. Can anyone help?
Vonita Bowers
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From: "Cheryl Newbanks" <horsetrails@inficad.com>
To: "SandyDSA" <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Cc: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: New Thread
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:50:06 -0700
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Hi Sandy,
What size horse do I like? Well I will have to go with 14.3-15.1. It is
funny but all the smaller horses I've ridden seem to have nicer gaits then
my 15.1 arab. I don't know if that was just dumb luck or build, way of
moving, etc... It is nice to not have to mount a huge horse after long
miles and aching knees, but I find with time I am getting pretty used to
mounting my 15.1 Blue after long hours. I know he dosen't sound that big,
but heck I am only 5'4" myself:}
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From: "Cheryl Newbanks" <horsetrails@inficad.com>
To: "SandyDSA" <SandyDSA@aol.com>
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From: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
To: "'Chris Paus'" <paus@micoks.net>
Cc: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Endurance Fashion?
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 18:55:56 -0700
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Chris, are you trying to get me laughed out of Idaho? Hot Pink!!! I =
don't think so, I'm really reaching to try the Spandex already <VBG>. =
Besides, it would clash with my neon yellow bandanna and electric green =
silk shirt. Yeah, right, I'd never even get close to Star with that =
combination.
Bruce & Star (Nothing that clashes with my eyes, please)
Emmett, ID
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 19:25:58 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Subject: Re: ride food
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Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
> (Tracy, are you happy? I'm trying to get another new thread going! <bg>)
>
yippee! :))
Ok, heres one NOT to eat.....'hotter than fire" enchiladas the night
before the ride
Tends to come back and haunt you from one end or the other.
Which reminds me to pass on another tip....never forget t-paper on SW
rides....there ain't no leaves out there (unless you count the prickly
pears!)
tracy
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:25:09 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Dropping the head
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My horse has learned to drop his head to avoid/overcome/negate the
bit ,and this occurs near the bottom of hills when he sees the horses
ahead of him cantering up out of the gully. He "hits hard" or feels very
heavy on the forehand on downhills,and I absolutely cannot go fast down
hills without feeling that we are gonna wreck.So there we are in the very
spot where I dare not go fast ,he knows I want to go slower ,and he puts
his nose into the dirt,accellerating,and cross-cantering.I used to
road-race motorcycles,and learned that when you feel like you're about to
go down,you usually are.Even if I'm being too cautious ,even if he knows
what he can safely do, the throttle should be mine,not his. Bits are not
the answer-you name it,it's been in his mouth.Training or rather
"Training" isn't really the answer unless I could come up with some super
negative reinforcement to apply in that exact moment in the real life
situation , which would not result in a wreck. He KNOWS I want him to
slow down. He never does this when we ride alone.I think it's more a
matter of technique on my part than training for him. The best rider I
know, who loves to ride this horse FAST in rough country(scouting in
big-time field trials), says to "sting him" with the bit quickly,but not
to give him anything to lean/pull against.This is an extremely gaited
horse. Some knowledgable horsemen have said he is smart.He's very
friendly.He lives without other horses now,and is herd sour,but ther are
horses alongside and behind him when he pulls this stunt. He's generally
near the top of the pecking order when he is in a herd. He's ten years
old. Opinions?Truman?
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Message-ID: <34AC52A4.4723@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:36:24 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: Cheryl Newbanks <horsetrails@inficad.com>
CC: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Controlled Starts vs Non Controlled
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Cheryl,
Funny that you should come up with this post on controlled starts. I've
been mulling it over in my mind as to whether or not to do this for my
ride (Florida Endurance Classic/7 Mar.'98). After participating in sev-
eral controlled starts during this past ride season, I'd say YES, and
possibly for all distances. I agree with all of your reasons; that first
mile at at controlled pace gives even the most seasoned (I do 100s )
riders and horses a chance to get themselves together; over the long
haul in, what we do, a controlled start is probably best for all,espec-
ially the horse, and should not have a negitive bearing or be a handicap
in any way(I wouldn't think). I'll make my own decision as to what to do
at my ride, but will be interested in the comments of others.
Have a wonderful year and thanks for the post.
Deena Meyer
carlmey@citrus.infi.net
Inverness,
Fl.
.
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 20:53:47 -0600
To: zebella@idt.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34AC3777.13C5@idt.net>
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Tracy,
My tall, leggy Arab also hops sideways. And he is 10. But his better trick
is coming to a complete halt in mid stride when he sees something scary
that I don't see. Other riders get worried looks on their faces when I go
flying over Star's head. But Star just stands there waiting for me to get
back on and away we go.
He may have long legs, but he is agile and quick as a cat.
But he IS getting better about the whole thing. One of my training buddies
commented that she hasn't seen him shy for a long time.
chris paus & star
At 05:40 PM 1/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
>> with 2 TB mares whose riders kept exclaiming over how "sure-footed" Lakota
>> is, how he zigged and zagged around the trees, fallen logs, over streams,
>
>When my husband is riding behind me he often comments that Pro just
>lengthens or shortens his stride to miss rocks or holes in the trail.
>
>When he was riding the old (and half blind) Quarter mare, they would hit
>every single thing in the trail...maybe she was going by feel!
>
>The tall arab seems to do pretty well missing things too, what you have
>to watch for with him is the unexpected leaps 6 feet to the
>side....he's coming 10 this year...dare I hope he'll ever mature?
>
>tracy
>
>
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:00:04 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
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My favorite trail food is pop tarts. Star likes them too.
chris paus & star
At 07:16 PM 1/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Santa brought me a copy of "The One Pan Gourmet" and suddenly I'm getting
>very enthusiastic about ride food! (Has anyone made the Hudson Bay Bread
>for vet check sandwiches? It sounds like it has good potential! :)
>
>I know there were a few posts this summer about what to eat during breaks
>that's filling and won't upset your tummy, and food you can carry with
>you, and while reading my new book, which has lots of yummy recipes for
>night-before and after-ride meals, I started thinking about compiling a
>Ride Food FAQ that would cover "just before" & "during" ride foods. Anyone
>care to contribute? Just send me ideas or simple recipes and I'll
>collect them for awhile and put them in a FAQ that Steph can post on
>www.endurance.net.
>
>(Somebody stop me if there's already one up. I thought I'd read all the
>FAQs online already, but I coulda missed one, and I can't get the site up
>right now to double-check.)
>
>(Tracy, are you happy? I'm trying to get another new thread going! <bg>)
>
>Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
>
>
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:05:25 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: ride fashion
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Wow. The Electric HOrseman!!!! This I gotta see. Come do a ride in Kansas
in that...
No I'm not suggesting hot pink for you guys, but what a hoot that would be.
You might win best dressed! Tights are ok, I mean, my very favorite outfit
on a guy is a baseball uniform. What does that say about me?
But no self-respecting first baseman would wear hot pink pants, at least on
the outside!
chris paus & star (who had great fun riding against a 40 mph wind today --
it's Kansas. get used to wind!)
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:11:42 -0600
From: "Michael K. Maul" <mmaul@flash.net>
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Points standings and ride results available on line.
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The version of the points standings and ride results that will
appear in the Jan Endurance News are now available at
http://www.doublejoy.com/rides/standings/default.asp
As MaryAnne indicated - we will be getting even more recent
info on friday.
Please take a look at the present results - and the ones to
be posted soon. If you see a * - this means there may be a
problem with the information that the AERC has.
And if you see a * on a ride result for someone that you
know but is not on the internet - please tell them to get
in touch with the AERC.
Due to the convention being a month earlier this year - the
AERC office needs membership help to make sure all the
results are accurate for the year end totals and awards.
Mike
mmaul@flash.net
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 19:06:09 -0800
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From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: Death Valley Encounter--We did it!!!!
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Was there anybody from ridecamp that wasn't there? I think the ridecampers
outnumbered the regular riders at this ride. It was fun to get to see so
many familiar faces and get to meet new ones. Just got home, rested up a
bit and thought I'd share a few details about the ride.
The ride this year was completely different than past years. I know that
the crew people were really happy about the changes. Don't know about the
riders tho <VBG>...actually, it was a really nice...very
challenging...endurance ride. Everybody who completed all four days at
this ride really knows the meaning of the term 'endurance'. Awesome
ride...Jim and Jackie, the vets, and all their help did a really great job
and made it a totally wonderful experience.
Day 1. Nice controlled start. (every day had a nice start) We walked
quite a ways, probably for about 40 minutes or so inbetween doing real slow
jogging. Finally did some trotting, but never anything really fast. I
think that approximately 70 horses started the first day. Rode from the
Bumgardner's place in Ridgecrest to Indian Wells...going thru Trona.
Beautiful weather. Finished about 4:30 or 5 p.m. (7 a.m. start)
Day 2. Went from Valley Wells to Ballarat. This was THE day. If you
wanted to take a day off at this ride...this would have been the day to do
it. Had a real nice ride, about 30 miles to the vet check. Still looking
good. This day the ride was sanctioned for 55 miles, though I think it was
probably closer to 60. So planned ahead, and packed an easy boot bag
filled with just horse treats...HES pellets, carrots, apples, electrolytes,
and plenty of warm clothes for me. Turned out to be a good thing. The
next part was a 5000+ (Jim??) foot climb in 7 miles. It was worth it, as
the views of Death Valley were totally awesome from the top. We could even
see the sierra crest. (Mt. Whitney) On the way up there were a couple of
water stops...natural springs. Weav was so thirsty that he tried going
right over the top of a solid piece of ice and we did a little tap dance
and the splits. Yikes!! We kept going, got to the top and found out that
we had a long, long way to go dowhill in the ice and snow. I was so very
grateful that we were able to make it down that part before it was totally
dark...also glad to have four easy boots on. We slipped probably only
about 10% as much as my friends horse with metal shoes and pads on. It was
very slippery and dangerous...any horse can slip big time going downhill
over frozen ice and ground. We ended up walking all the rest of the way
in, and barely made it in by the 13 hour cutoff time. Was a very long
time, but boy were we happy to make camp. Got to take a shower too!!! :-)
Day 3. Ballarat to Panamint Springs Resort. Yeah, Weav trots out sound
again, everything looks good. Got my toes wrapped where my socks rubbed
all the skin off of the top of my toes walking so much the day before.
Apparently, from what others told me <g>, duct tape works really well for
foot blisters and more than one person told me that. Was looking forward
to an easy day. Haha, yeah...right. Got to the first water stop. Guess
the horses before us were awfully thirsty, it was basically gone :(, just
sips left for our guys. Several horses didn't get any water there.
(ah-hem...apparently some less than considerate riders used a lot of water
pouring it on their horses necks) Spent some time there letting our guys
eat. Had the privilege of riding with dozens of different riders and
horses during this (entire) ride...was a lot of fun and never boring. Got
thru a 7 mile section of rocks. Not that the rest wasn't rocky, this one
section was just rockier than others. Another water stop, yeah...headed to
the vet check..this time the footing was really nice...sandy. Trotted most
of the way into camp, which was dumb. Weav was a little sore in the left
hind when we went to the vet. So I ask Dave (hubby & crew)...would you
please massage (did I say please?) Weav's rear end while I eat?...and he
looks at me...'you've got to be kidding, right?'. Nope, wasn't kidding.
So while he did that I scarfed down some food, reloaded the saddle packs
and worried the whole time about the horse getting worse. Walked him
around, and guess what...went back to the vet an hour later and he was
better. Yeah!! Barney (vet) was great. I think Weav was just sore from
his tap dance on the ice the night before. I left the vet check there a
bit late and basically walked (on foot) the remaining 15 miles. I probably
didn't need to walk that much, but I really wanted to make sure the horse
was allright. Some nice person that I didn't even know gave me a
glow-stick, which was handy when we had to ride a few miles alongside the
highway in a 65 mph zone in the dark. We made it in just before 7...me,
Jen, (who got to hear me whine a lot) Steph and John. Speedy 'ol Kat
passed us up. Sneaky drag rider, better watch her <G>. Trotted Weav
out...Barney says "excellent"...he looks great. One more day to go!
Day 4. Panamint Springs to....Panamint Springs. This was a loop, going
thru Darwin. The footing was the best on this day. Weather still
gorgeous. Every morning I expected Weaver to be stiff as a board..but he
kept surprising me and was completely sound every single morning. I was so
happy. He was an absolute monster this day. I had no breaks on him at
all. By the time I got him into the vet check, I had renamed him "SLOW
DOWN", and by the finish had added the word "DAMMIT" to his new name <g>. I
have blisters on each hand...sigh. I got off a good mile or two before the
vet check and walked him in. Or rather, he walked me in. Was really
pleased when he vetted out without any signs of soreness from the day
before. Was nice to have the vet tell you that you really know how to take
care of your horse :-) Guess walking him five hours helped? ;-0 Had a
real enjoyable ride back to camp, making it in by 5. Finished the fourth
day, horse looked and felt great. Oh yeah, had to ride in a pair of size
larger than normal shoes this day.
They had awards later, and a great band and New Year's party. We were
evicted from our table before the awards by the caterers. Apparently the
band needed a place to sit, so we were told that we absolutely could not
stay there. It was okay, I wanted to go take care of the Weaver and crawl
into bed. So I don't know any ride result info. I think about 20 horses
completed all four days.
All in all, it was a really terrific ride. Never once got lost. Though I
did forget what day it was more than once. Seemed to appear intoxicated at
time to various people, in spite of having had no alcohol ;^). Never got
really cold. A little sunburned.
I carbo-loaded on this ride. Stuff worked great, will definitely continue
to use it. Very noticeable results. Anybody know where I can get a
super-sized syringe? I have to give two syringes every time...one for
electrolytes and one for the carbo stuff. Would be so much easier to have
one giant syringe.
Happy New Year everyone!!!! I'm going to catch up on some zzzzzz's....
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Dream Weaver...1230 miles
& Rocky...hauled around all week and never ridden :-)
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--------------------------
Please Unsubscribe me thank you
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From: Overodrive <Overodrive@aol.com>
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please unsubscribe me
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: horse size
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty A Lambert)
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:21:05 EST
So maybe it just comes down to the individual horse rather than the
tallest or smallest?
Amen
My 16.1 app can snake his way through the knee-knockers or trot over the
rough, rocky stuff, no problem. Size has nothing to do with agility,
<imho>
I have to admit, going under low branches or re-mounting after a pitstop
are more challenging!
Patty
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 19:25:36 -0800
Subject: fashion
Message-ID: <19980101.192539.3246.0.ToriandSteve@juno.com>
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From: toriandsteve@juno.com (Victoria A Thompson)
With all this talk about spandex and who will or won't wear it, how come
nobody has said anything about Miller's training sweats? I ride in those
things all the time and like them a lot.
Also, the guy in Kansas jogging in hot pink spandex is from Hollywood
visiting family!
Happy New Year.
Tori
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/torit
Donna O'Gara convinced me I needed a web page, so if anybody's interested
go take a peek.
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:23:26 -0800
Subject: Warner Springs
Message-ID: <19980101.194955.14550.0.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Who's going to Warner Springs? I want to try to see more of you whom
I "know", but could pass right by in camp. I'll be there with a camper,
white Trooper,
2 kids (girls), and a 16.2 dark bay TB mare.
Kris
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:02:17 -0800
From: paddi <seamstob@telusplanet.net>
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Hi
Sorry to post this to the list but email is being returned to me.
says (bad destination box).
Your email is coming through no problem
Paddi
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 20:03:38 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: horse size
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This is just food for thought, but we were collecting data for my thesis
project at the '95 and '96 Tevis, one of the parameters we measured was
cannon bone circumference. It was surprising that although there was a
fairly wide range of heights (from around 14 hands to 16.2), the cannon
bone circumference measurements were pretty similar---the average
measurement was 7.41 inches (measured midway between the knee and the
fetlock joint) and 2/3 of the horses were within about a quarter inch
plus or minus, regardless of the height of the horse.
It seems to me that as a horse's height increases, so does the body
weight, simply because he's usually bigger all over, not just in
height. So that means maybe several hundred more pounds being supported
by pretty much the same size bone---and therefore the stress exerted per
square inch of bone is considerably higher in a bigger horse than a
horse even an inch or two smaller. So just maybe...even though a bigger
horse has a bigger stride, maybe on average he's also more likely to
have more leg problems simply because the concussion per square inch is
higher. Seems to be one of those things that you'd have to find a happy
medium of big enough to get a good stride, but small enough to carry his
weight without too much stress.
Just a thought.
Susan Garlinghouse
Ann Hatfield wrote:
>
> In my on-going friendly arguements with a long-distance trail riding friend
> the subject of the 'best height for trail horses" comes up frequently. He
> (and me too when I'm back up there visiting-God's country-the Canadian
> rockies) rides trails that often have logs across them, steep banks, mud
> holes, bogs, deep creeks, rivers, and other hazards. His contention is
> that a large (15:3-17 hand) horse is faster at a walk and trot and much
> better over this type of terrain. Sadly, I have to agree when it comes to
> logs across the trail and some of the banks his French Trotter/Saddlebred
> 16:2 gelding breezes over. But, am I likely to encounter much of this in
> endurance races as such?
>
> The one and only I have ridden in was in rough country (the Rockies) and
> had several deep fords and a truly horse-eating mud hole-thank goodness I
> was early to it, before it got really churned up -so soft that a couple of
> horses nearly were very nearly mired and one unwise rider who dismounted in
> the middle of it darn near disappeared!
>
> I have a green 14:3 gelding who will be hard pressed to keep up to Daniel's
> gelding in the blowdown but whom I think will blow the socks off the
> bigger, bulkier horse over a long ride and is neat and nippy under the
> branches that nearly decapitate riders way up there!
>
> Do many (any) rides have hazards like the above and so is a leggier horse
> an advantage in this way?
>
> Ann
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 20:09:07 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
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Since we're talking about endurance fashion, if anyone hasn't tried them
yet, Thorlo socks are terrific. They have extra padding on the front of
the shin where the stirrup leather rub, also extra thickness at the toe
and heel. The over-the-calf styles actually stay up without falling
down, they wear like iron, keep my feet warm when wet and wick moisture
away so I don't get SwampFoot. They run about $11-13 a pair, but are
well worth it. I used to wear half-chaps but had various problems with
them and now just wear high Thorlo socks, spandex tights and my leg
never gets pinched between the saddle and leathers anymore.
Just another .02.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:54:02 -0800
Subject: Re: ride food
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Applesauce mixed with mandarin oranges at the lunch stop. Yum yum.
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:51:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Glenda,
>etc., where their big TBs were stumbling and rocking from side to
>side.
>It may be a breed thing too, I dunno,
It's not. My horse is big and has no problem with that kind of stuff. She
always
seems to be watching where she's going.
>can go really fast on rough terrain.
My best race placings on my TB have been the tougher, hillier ones. A
larger,
taller horse should have a fuller girth with larger lungs - shouldn't
they? On flat, easy rides,
I guess I am not willing to go as fast as the front runners.
One hazard related to size is hitting your head on branches that RM's cut
to an Arab horse height : )
Kris
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Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 20:17:21 -0800
Subject: Re: Controlled Starts vs Non Controlled
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Non controlled
If you are unsure of your horse's reaction or know that the reaction will
be total
lunacy, then don't start with everyone else at an uncontrolled start.
Sunland has
a shotgun start. I have since decided that since I wish to live, this is
one of those
rides where I will start after the pack and be content with a less than
best finish.
Controlled
I dislike controlled starts because it seems to compress the group more.
With a
non controlled start, I like to take off and slow after the pack has
thinned out. My mare
is not the sweetest thing in a group, so I want to get her out on her own
ASAP. In a
controlled start, there is more of a possability , for me, of an accident
if my horse
decides to do something about the person riding right up on her butt.
Kris
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 00:25:04 EST
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Subject: Re: horse size
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Susan--
I think the cannon circumference is an important measure--but it has to be
correlated to the horse's weight. Personal observation would lead me to
believe that Deb Bennett's numbers of 8" per 1000 pounds is a pretty good rule
of thumb. Do the math, though--that means that 6" is adequate for a 750-lb
horse, but it takes 10" for a 1250-lb horse. I don't want somebody to give me
a cannon circumference unless they tell me how big the horse is. I agree that
the bigger horses tend not to have the bone to go with their size--I think
that's one reason why they don't tend to hold up as well. They are on the
fringes of the bell curve for normal Arabian size, and it is harder to find
good ones on the edges. Just for the record, the stallion I ride (Abu Ben
Surrabu) has 8-3/4" and weighs about 950-lbs--and he is not quite 14-3 hh. His
dad, barely 14-2 hh, weighed just over 900 and had an honest 9" cannon
circumference. Would rather put a heavyweight on guys like that than on a
15-3 hh horse that weighs 1100 lbs and only has 7-1/2" cannons! One has to
look at the whole picture.
By the way, do you still have the reply I sent you about body scores? I
deleted it and later found out that I had cc'd it to a friend instead of to
ride camp. If it is convenient for you to post, I would like to share it.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
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Subject: controlled v. non-controlled
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Hey guys!! I have ridden both controlled and non-controlled starts, adn I
will have to agree with someone who said it really depended on who was
there to ride. I was involved in a controlled start for one mile at a
ride a few years back. As soon as the mile point came and we were cut
loose, I think about 10 riders went out in a blaze of glory. At least
their horses were plenty warmed up by then, but it sure did not help my
horse want to pace any better. Of course, some of the non-controlled
starts that I have been part of have been pretty hairy too:-)
IF I am starting a ride with a young or green horse, I will wait out the
start and then go out by myself.
On the other hand, I use the LD rides for a learning/teaching tool for my
horse. IF she has to go out later than other horses every time, then how
is she ever going to learn to start with the pack? I think that
controlled starts are
VERY good tools if the start is dangerous or something, but probably not
necessary on rides where the start is easy. It has to be up to the rider
to know if their horse needs to be held back. True that it comes with
experience, but a mile is not very far when you are talking about trying
to keep someone from over riding their horse.
APPY TRAILS
SAMM C. BARTEE
Auburn, Al. SE Region
with
SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance newbie
85 miles and.....
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
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Cold milk, cold milk and more cold milk--don't leave home without it!
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Cold milk, cold mi5013 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000007737 06453103346 0013114 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from smtp2.mailsrvcs.net (smtp2.gte.net [207.115.153.31]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA00952 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:19:13 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: horse size
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:56:29 -0800
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Its actually worse than that. There is more weight and it is located higher.
That lever arm magnifies the lateral stresses on the bones and ligaments and
tendons from that added weight. Perhaps a more interesting question is what
is the relative size of the various ligaments.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
>This is just food for thought, but we were collecting data for my thesis
>project at the '95 and '96 Tevis, one of the parameters we measured was
>cannon bone circumference. It was surprising that although there was a
>fairly wide range of heights (from around 14 hands to 16.2), the cannon
>bone circumference measurements were pretty similar---the average
>measurement was 7.41 inches (measured midway between the knee and the
>fetlock joint) and 2/3 of the horses were within about a quarter inch
>plus or minus, regardless of the height of the horse.
>
>It seems to me that as a horse's height increases, so does the body
>weight, simply because he's usually bigger all over, not just in
>height. So that means maybe several hundred more pounds being supported
>by pretty much the same size bone---and therefore the stress exerted per
>square inch of bone is considerably higher in a bigger horse than a
>horse even an inch or two smaller. So just maybe...even though a bigger
>horse has a bigger stride, maybe on average he's also more likely to
>have more leg problems simply because the concussion per square inch is
>higher. Seems to be one of those things that you'd have to find a happy
>medium of big enough to get a good stride, but small enough to carry his
>weight without too much stress.
>
>Just a thought.
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
>
>
>
>Ann Hatfield wrote:
>>
>> In my on-going friendly arguements with a long-distance trail riding
friend
>> the subject of the 'best height for trail horses" comes up frequently.
He
>> (and me too when I'm back up there visiting-God's country-the Canadian
>> rockies) rides trails that often have logs across them, steep banks, mud
>> holes, bogs, deep creeks, rivers, and other hazards. His contention is
>> that a large (15:3-17 hand) horse is faster at a walk and trot and much
>> better over this type of terrain. Sadly, I have to agree when it comes
to
>> logs across the trail and some of the banks his French Trotter/Saddlebred
>> 16:2 gelding breezes over. But, am I likely to encounter much of this in
>> endurance races as such?
>>
>> The one and only I have ridden in was in rough country (the Rockies) and
>> had several deep fords and a truly horse-eating mud hole-thank goodness I
>> was early to it, before it got really churned up -so soft that a couple
of
>> horses nearly were very nearly mired and one unwise rider who dismounted
in
>> the middle of it darn near disappeared!
>>
>> I have a green 14:3 gelding who will be hard pressed to keep up to
Daniel's
>> gelding in the blowdown but whom I think will blow the socks off the
>> bigger, bulkier horse over a long ride and is neat and nippy under the
>> branches that nearly decapitate riders way up there!
>>
>> Do many (any) rides have hazards like the above and so is a leggier horse
>> an advantage in this way?
>>
>> Ann
>
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:34:07 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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Subject: trail safety
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I would appreciate some feedback from the group.
The Mt. Laguna Ride has been held for over ten years using the same
trails and to my knowledge we have never had a problem with respect to
trail safety. (This last year a junior rider borrowed a saddle which
either did not fit or was not cinched tight and did not use a breast
collar and had a mishap on the trail, but I would not say that the
problem was because of the trail.) These trails are frequently single
track one horse trails (some on the Pacific Crest Trail) and in places
can be narrow (3 feet wide) that can have a drop off on one side. I can
understand that someone who had a fear of heights could feel some
discomfort on one of these sections of the trail, but I would consider
the trail safe, unless, of course I was riding an unsafe horse. If I
am going to incorporate a new section of trail in the course that I may
have a question about, I always take along one of my “wimp” riding
friends to get their perspective before I add it to the course.
The riders at the San Diego rides are all given questionnaires to
complete and return after the ride with any suggestions and criticisms.
I just received one of the questionnaires back regarding the Mt. Laguna
Ride (she must have given this some thought since the ride was over six
months ago). The interesting part about this was that in answer to the
question regarding what she especially liked about the ride, she
answered “scenery.” In response to the question regarding how
management could improve this ride she wrote, “trail is too dangerous
for endurance. Suggest reroute to dirt roads if possible. Too much
(beautiful) single track with plunging cliffs.”
I know that as a rider I personally prefer a course that uses single
track trails that require some horsemanship, rather than dirt roads
(although I do like a road the first mile or two so that the front
runners can space out and position before getting on a single track
trail). I get bored with dirt roads and I would think that my horse
does also.
So with the above information, this is the feedback I would appreciate
the group providing.
Do you riders prefer dirt roads to single tract trails that require
horsemanship?
Do you feel uncomfortable on a trail that is 3 feet wide alongside a
drop off?
If you have ever ridden the Mt. Laguna Ride, do you feel the trail is
too dangerous for endurance?
I would appreciate your input.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:56:06 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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Subject: controlled - non controlled start
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As a rider I prefer a non-controlled start unless there is a safety
reason.
Of the three rides I manage in San Diego, two have controlled starts and
one does not. The Manzanita Ride has a ravine that the riders have to
go through about 100 yards from the start. I don't want the riders
racing down that since it often creates a problem for the riders farther
back in the pack. The riders are required to walk through that ravine
and then about 100 yards past that where it flattens out the riders can
move at whatever pace they want. A sign is placed at that spot that
tells them that the controlled starts ends there. I used to pick a
rider to lead the group out at a walk and tell the riders that they
could not pass that rider, but then I felt that it gave that rider the
advantage of being in front where the controlled start ended.
At the Mt. Laguna Ride the riders have to travel on a portion of an
asphault road during the first mile. I found that it was difficult to
have 60+ riders do a controlled start for that long of a stretch without
the horses getting bunched up, nervous, etc. Since I do not want them
racing on the road, I tell them that the ride starts at 6:00, and they
can leave basecamp (which is where the mileage starts) anytime after I
take numbers (5:45) and make their way at their own pace to where the
controlled start ends which is a mile into the course. At 6:10 the
riders are released from that spot where they can leave at whatever pace
they want.
The Warner Springs Ride starts on an open road for a mile so there is no
controlled start because it is safe to race from that point.
So basically, I feel the decision whether to have a controlled start
should be determined by the safeness of the start of the course. I
expect the riders to position themselves in the pack at the start based
on the rider's experience, goals, and predictability of their horse.
That's my perspective.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:37:43 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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Terry Woolley Howe wrote: I would appreciate some feedback from the group.
> Do you riders prefer dirt roads to single tract trails that require
> horsemanship?
God, give me my pony, a single track trail, and MILES of it!
> Do you feel uncomfortable on a trail that is 3 feet wide alongside a drop
> off?
No, I ride the Pacific Crest Trail and the Tahoe Rim Trail which both have
wild exposure.
Single track RULES ! Dirt roads are boring! Put on a beautiful ride with
beautiful scenery and more riders will come and enjoy it!
--
Deanne Del Vecchio
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:01:21 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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To: Kristen L Olko <krisolko@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Warner Springs
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Kristen L Olko wrote:
>
> Who's going to Warner Springs? I want to try to see more of you whom
> I "know", but could pass right by in camp. I'll be there with a camper,
> white Trooper,
> 2 kids (girls), and a 16.2 dark bay TB mare.
>
> Kris
Kris,
I think I will have some "badges" made up that individuals can wear
that indicate that they are members of ridecamp. They will be available
at the check in desk. There will be a place that you can write you name
and also any alias that you might use (for instance, Peggasis will be
coming).
Terry
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <14ca8114.34ac8d88@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:47:34 EST
To: dfletche@gte.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: horse size
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Good points, Duncan. Of course, the so-called "cannon circumference" includes
the suspensory ligament and both digital flexor tendons--about all one can do
is eyeball the whole mechanism to see that it looks proportional--not too
scientific. Still, you once again make the case for the "normal" sized horse
being on the average the better bet, and making one be especially selective
and critical when looking at the ones out of the normal range. Good big ones
DO exist, they are just a lot harder to find.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <11837e9e.34ac8e42@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:50:40 EST
To: twhowe@inetworld.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: trail safety
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Hi, Terry--
Although it is sometimes nice to have a road section as a "breather", I
personally prefer the rides for the thinking riders with the scenic trails.
Much more challenging, and much less of a flat race. Keep your trails in, and
more power to you.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
P.S.: Taking along a "wimp" is a good reality check, though--I personally
ride in some fabulous places that I would not dream of running a ride--just
too tough.
aol.com)
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 06:35:08 -0500
From: "Sandra B. Terp" <hotspots@fast.net>
Reply-To: hotspots@fast.net
Organization: (Neigh-Per-Say)
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: supplements
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I would be interested in what competitors feed in the way of supplements
to their horses. I started out looking like a chemist at meal time and
have slowly backed off several of them. I still believe in a
multi-vitamin, and a GAG complex. My horse that had Lymes a few years
ago gets a special B complex for that. I sell a couple different brands
of supplements (the stuff I use myself) and my New Years resolution is
to NOT lug around alot of stuff to rides that people are not going to
buy. So what is everyone using, why did you decide to feed it and are
you loyal to your brand?
Thanks,
Sandy and the "crew" at (Neigh-Per-Say) in cold NJ
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 06:49:44 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: iggy <polstar@ll.net>
Subject: Back again
Hi
Doing a test to see if I am back on the list. Please note e-mail address
change.
Thanks
Sigrid
polstar@ll.net
The Space Cadet
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From: "Helga Loncosky" <hblmh@ptd.net>
To: "Carol Boardman" <Carol.Boardman@Dartmouth.EDU>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Honeycomb pads
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:18:11 -0500
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I have friends in VT who are endurance riders, in fact, that's how I found
out about them. They are located near Brownsville. They are very porus
(sp), but do not have holes, and hold up well to gravel. Almost like a
foamy type of material. I think they are at least worth a try.
Helga Loncosky
hblmh@ptd.net
Beacon Morgan Horses
http://home.ptd.net~hblmh
***********************************************************
"There is something about the outside of a horse
that is good for the inside of a man."
-----------Winston Churchill
----------
> From: Carol Boardman <Carol.Boardman@Dartmouth.EDU>
> To: hblmh@ptd.net; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Honeycomb pads
> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 8:15 AM
>
> --- "Helga Loncosky" wrote:
> I have used them for the rocky terrain we have here in the mountains, and
I
> love them, and so does my mare! I think she believes she's wearing Nike
> Air!
> --- end of quoted material ---
>
> How do you think they would work for the gravely type roads we have in
Vermont?
> Are there holes in pad? And if so are they small enough to keep fine
gravel
> out? Right now we're using ShockTamers but I'm willing to try anything
that
> works better to help save those legs!
>
> Carol in Vermont (we're not riding - we're ice skating!)
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <98681323.34ace772@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:11:12 EST
To: grs@theneteffect.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 2Qs and 1 opinion >>>> & just how wet is Osceola?
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Glenda~
In a message dated 97-12-31 09:49:46 EST, you write:
<< Second question concerns pre-existing bobos at a ride. :) Lakota scraped a
big chunk of skin off his leg (just below the hock) a few weeks back, and
it's healing nicely, but will still have a sizeable scab if we decide to
do Osceola. It doesn't affect his gait at all, we're back to regular
riding, but it doesn't look too pretty, and I'm sure the scab will come
off during the first loop (since Osceola has lots of water, I'm sure the
scab will be soaked off, it it doesn't get knocked off by brush first).
Do things like that cause a horse to be pulled? What are the guidelines
for injuries that do not cause lameness? >>
On an endurance ride, if he is "fit to continue" there should be no problem &
you should be able to go on. I had a similar bobo on my horse at a ctr. The
scab came off during the ride (lots of water) & at the final vet in points
were deducted. Since Oseola would be your 2nd ride, I'm going to guess that
you are not going for top ten. In that case points are not a concern, just
bring in a sound horse.
I'm thinking about Osceola too. Have you heard if the camping area is wet?
I've got a motorhome and sure don't want to get it stuck in the mud. I'd like
to do an easy 25 since I've not ridden much over the holidays.
~Nora
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:19:54 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: iggy <polstar@ll.net>
Subject: The keeper of the list and list.
Hi
I have just re subscribed to the list. Will assume the format has changed
in the last few days? It seems when mail is sent from the list there is
no indication it is from the list.
There is no way to tell if it is a privet e-mail or from ridecamp. Is
there a way to fix this? I would hate to unsubscribe but there is no way
one can respond to a letter not knowing whether it is a personal e-mail, or
addressed to the list.
Is this only happening to me?
Sigrid
new e-mail address
polstar@ll.net
The Space Cadet
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 10:12:06 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
CC: grs@theneteffect.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 2Qs and 1 opinion >>>> & just how wet is Osceola?
References: <98681323.34ace772@aol.com>
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Hi Nora,
The camping area at Osceola was amazingly dry when I helped out at Pan-
ther Run first weekend in Nov. even though there was torrential rain
before the
ride.
I understand that the trails are VERY WET (under water) now,
and that the ride mgr. may move to the roads...boring but doable consid-
ering that at this time of year, even though Florida (location is 1 hr.
south of Ga. State border)it can be as damp and cold as anywhere.Espec-
ially if a N'orwesterner is blowing in!
I plan to be there doing the 100. See you.
Deena Meyer
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: supplements
Message-ID: <19980102.104250.7967.1.esppatty@juno.com>
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty A Lambert)
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 10:41:07 EST
I'm not one to use lots of extra supplements, but one I have used & will
continue because I see a noticeable difference in recovery speed at vet
checks is ABC's antioxidant formula. I originally bought it just because
I thought my horse, being kind of old (21) might benefit from the
antioxidants, based on stuff I've read about human nutrition, and wasn't
expecting to see anything obvious, but was pleasantly surprised.
Patty Lambert (5'2")
& Trenton the long-legged Appy (never dismount without a large boulder
nearby!)
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Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:51:59 -0800
From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>, "Jo Harper" <mjo@navix.net>
Subject: Re: Jo Harper and the Rescue Posts
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:34:58 -0800
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While I don't want to see the "whether to post or not to post" topic go on
forever, I, for one, welcome these rescue posts. They give me chance to
give back in an area where I'm always on the receiving end. I usually try
to do something in these rescue situations--after all, if we don't, who
will?
Thanks, Jo, for making us aware of this situation in Michigan. I hope that
local law enforcement is able to make at least one felony count stick on
these people--it sure sounds like they deserve it.
I would like to see some sort of closure to the Michigan situation, so
perhaps you could post again when the case is adjudicated.
dorothy & elly
taylorsville, ca
PS--I don't think you're a "spammer."
----------
> From: Jo Harper <mjo@navix.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Jo Harper and the Rescue Posts
> Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 10:40 PM
>
> At 02:02 PM 12/31/97 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
> >>>Jo Harper is something quite new and unique in the world of horses on
> the Internet.
>
> Gee, Linda, thanks ... I've always wanted to be unique <s>.
>
>
> >>>I administer a listserve on Morgan horses. Jo Harper showed up there
a
> little over a month ago with similar horse rescue posts.
>
> To be fair, Linda, perhaps it would also be good to say that the original
> post asking for help in rescuing that horse, which was a Morgan, came
from
> the Morganlist and was cross-posted to several of the other lists I am
on.
> In response to that request, I tried to adopt the horse. When another
> person was chosen to be the adopter and transportation became the issue,
I
> followed up on Morganlist where the original interest was. This didn't
> seem to be a wrong thing to do.
>
> >>>She is an equine listserve spammer. (A "listserve" is the technical
> term for a discussion list -- what Ridecamp is, what Equine-L is, what
> Dresssage-L and Arab-L are, and my own MorganList.) She subscribes to as
> many equine-related listserves as she can find, and sends them *all*
copies
> of her various pleas for assistance. This is what she means when she
says
> that she is getting the word out to "the lists." The topic around which
> the listserve is formed is irrelevant: if it's horses, Jo tries to
> subscribe to it and send it her pleas. If you subscribe to multiple
equine
> listserves, you will likely see her messages over and over again.
>
> Linda, I'm trying to figure out what generates this paragraph from you.
> Lots of horse list people cross-post to lots of lists. I wonder why in
my
> case you've chosen the epithet "spammer" and why you've chosen to write
> this particular message to Ridecamp. Most folks, when coming to messages
> in which they have no particular interest, simply push the delete button.
> I wonder why you would characterize my cross-posts as "trying to
subscribe"
> to horse lists in order to "send her pleas." Like you, I subscribe to
> horse lists in which I have an interest. Like you, I reply, post and
> cross-post items having to do with points of being involved with horses
in
> which I have an interest. It seems quite to be expected that some of my
> areas of interest will not necessarily be your areas of interest. I
wonder
> why that would generate a post from you with this tone and cast?
>
>
> >>>While I am sure she is sincere (I believe that Jo is a just-ordained
> minister) and while I acknowledge that this is all in a good cause, I
> eventually found the repeated pleas for assistance and some of the
strange
> offshoot pleas that appeared (assistance for a physically challenged
woman
> who wanted to adopt a horse from a group that coined themselves
> this woman's "Guardian Angels") to be off topic, intrusive, and
ultimately
> a little weird. To her credit, Jo was entirely cooperative and courteous
> when I asked her to please "unsubscribe"
> MorganList from her list-of-lists.
>
> Thanks for including that word of credit. I don't know what my being a
> minister has to do with it. I appreciate that you acknowledge that my
> posts were in regard to a good cause. The "offshoot pleas" that appeared
> had to do with a Morgan horse, so it seemed that Morganlist was an
> appropriate place to post. That you found those posts to be off topic,
> intrusive and ultimately a little weird is your right and entitlement.
> Without meaning to flame in any way, but only to respond, I find this
post
> of yours to be somewhat the same.
>
> I'll admit that I'm saddened to be called a spammer and to be
characterized
> in this negative way. It has been my experience that horsepeople tend to
> be the most friendly, welcoming and generous people, as a group, that
I've
> encountered perhaps ever, and especially when it comes to the welfare of
> horses and other equines. I have a horse (Arabian). I am learning to be
a
> horseperson. I am interested in competitive trail riding. I have
> subscribed to several lists accordingly. Based on my understanding of
> horse people and their concern for equines and their willingness to help
in
> special situations, I have made some of those special situations known to
> those horse people on the lists to which I subscribe. I have received
> responses from people from those lists, some on-list, most off-list.
> You're entitled to your opinion about my posts, Linda. I have no trouble
> with that. I am troubled, however, by the tone of your public expression
> of your opinion, and feel it necessary and appropriate to say so. While
> the meek will reportedly someday inherit the earth, and I hope to be one
of
> them, it doesn't seem to me to be fair to the good cause involved to let
> your post pass without comment.
>
>
> >>>Each list owner has to make up their mind what to do about Jo and her
> good causes.
>
> I did receive an inquiry from the Ridecamp list administrator about the
> blind cc's under which my messages were sent. I apologized for any list
> infractions that might have occurred and assured him that I understood if
> the messages could not be posted. He responded that the messages had
gone
> through and that they were fine to be posted, that he was only inquiring
> about the way the the transmissions came through, something about because
> they were blind cc's they fell into his filters. I hope I am correctly
> characterizing my memory of his posts to me, and I invite him to say
> otherwise if not. So I guess that this list owner did make up his mind,
as
> you did yours. While you're sure entitled to, as you said, "ban forever"
> my posts to Morganlist, I wonder that you felt a need to share your
> personal dislike of my posts through the tone and comments to this other
list.
>
>
> >>> As I said, she is something new and entirely unique in the Equine
> Internet world.
>
> Oh, I don't know ... others cross-post as well, and sometimes about
rescue
> situations.
>
>
> >>>Linda B. "Just Call Me Scrooge" Merims
>
> ok ~
>
> Linda, I mean no flame and do not intend to engage in any sort of
dispute.
> You wrote. I responded. That's all, and only all, that I mean by this
post.
>
> jo
>
> __________________________________________
> Jo Harper & Guy
> mjo@navix.net -- ICQ # 3596210
> Guy's Page: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/8620
> Horsefaces Volunteer: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/9060/
>
with this tone and cast?
>
>
> >>>While I am sure she is sincere (I believe that Jo is 5028 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001171 06453215334 0013105 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.174]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14371 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:50:31 -0800 (PST)
From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <413ab39b.34ad19b6@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:45:40 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: web Site
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Is anyone else having trouble accessing the endurance site or is it me? Can't
get to the Endurance Site for anything. Did the address change?
sandy
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:49:42 -0800
To: twhowe@inetworld.net, Kristen L Olko <krisolko@juno.com>
From: Jane Sheppard <jane@deltanet.com>
Subject: ridecamp ID
Cc: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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It would be interesting to find out who all you guys are. Jane
Visit The Tevis Pony Web Page: http://users.deltanet.com/~jane
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <33ff99a7.34ad1a68@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:48:38 EST
To: hotspots@fast.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: supplements
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Hi, Sandy--
As to supplements, I go with the less-is-usually-better approach. I only
supplement things in which I KNOW our local feeds are deficient (selenium is
the big-time problem here in the NW), and then a normal vitamin supplement. I
only use or recommend GAG's for horses under particular stress or with
problems (lots and lots of miles, really severe competition, old campaigners,
etc.) Regular food has done well by horses for lots of years, and good feed
is still the best game in town....
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: can't get into Endurance.net site
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:53:04 PST
Anybody know if Endurance.net server is down?
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:57:19 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: web Site
In-Reply-To: <413ab39b.34ad19b6@aol.com>
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I haven't been able to get on either, and assume it is connected with the
move of the ride calendar ... and maybe Steph's attendance at the Death
Valley Encounter? <bg>
Glenda & Lakota
On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, SandyDSA wrote:
> Is anyone else having trouble accessing the endurance site or is it me? Can't
> get to the Endurance Site for anything. Did the address change?
> sandy
>
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:27:46 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: iggy <polstar@ll.net>
Subject: Ok
Ok, Got ya.
No spam sounds GOOD. Figured out how to tell the difference. (Prefix with
no server, cleverrrrrrrrr........)
Thanks
Sigrid
P.S. As they always say "If ya don't ask, ya don't know."
The Space Cadet
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 11:05:58 -0600 (CST)
To: grs@theneteffect.com, SandyDSA@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: web Site
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Hi Glenda,On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Glenda R Snodgrass wrote...
>I haven't been able to get on either, and assume it is connected with the
>move of the ride calendar ... and maybe Steph's attendance at the Death
>Valley Encounter? <bg>
>
>Glenda & Lakota
>
>On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, SandyDSA wrote:
>
>> Is anyone else having trouble accessing the endurance site or is it me? Can't
>> get to the Endurance Site for anything. Did the address change?
>> sandy
>>
>
Hi Glenda,
Yes, I'm having trouble getting on the web site also...
Diane & Sardius
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:33:50 -0500 (EST)
From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: web Site
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On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, SandyDSA wrote:
>
> Is anyone else having trouble accessing the endurance site or is it me? Can't
> get to the Endurance Site for anything. Did the address change?
> sandy
>
I was just one the phone to First Step Research (my MorganList
listserv runs off the same system). The story is that the T1
line from AT&T that connects Moscow, Idaho to the rest of the
Internet was down for almost 12 hours. It is back
up right now (though I don't know how long that will last--it
came back for at least 15 minutes around 7:30 a.m. Eastern
this morning and then went down again).
What I can't figure out is if this is really what was wrong,
then why was e-mail to Ridecamp still working?
Whatever. It seems to be back now.
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>,
"Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 07:46:41 -0800
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I'd love to see some posts about food. I always seem to have the wrong
things!!
dorothy & elly
taylorsville, ca
----------
> From: Glenda R. Snodgrass <grs@theneteffect.com>
> To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: ride food
> Date: Thursday, January 01, 1998 5:16 PM
>
> Santa brought me a copy of "The One Pan Gourmet" and suddenly I'm getting
> very enthusiastic about ride food! (Has anyone made the Hudson Bay Bread
> for vet check sandwiches? It sounds like it has good potential! :)
>
> I know there were a few posts this summer about what to eat during breaks
> that's filling and won't upset your tummy, and food you can carry with
> you, and while reading my new book, which has lots of yummy recipes for
> night-before and after-ride meals, I started thinking about compiling a
> Ride Food FAQ that would cover "just before" & "during" ride foods.
Anyone
> care to contribute? Just send me ideas or simple recipes and I'll
> collect them for awhile and put them in a FAQ that Steph can post on
> www.endurance.net.
>
> (Somebody stop me if there's already one up. I thought I'd read all the
> FAQs online already, but I coulda missed one, and I can't get the site up
> right now to double-check.)
>
> (Tracy, are you happy? I'm trying to get another new thread going! <bg>)
>
> Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Stroke & Bute
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:20:50 -0800
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I'm posting this for a friend--She's looking for help and opinions....
She has an older (30+ I think) gelding named Dan. In 1994 she had her
horse checked out by a vet at UCD after being told by her local vet that he
had had a stroke. The UCD vet thought that Dan had some sort of
"neurological" problem, but says that a stroke is very unusual in horses.
Her questions, though, mainly concern bute. Her horse is taking 1/2 gram a
day, and has been for several years. She's weaned him down that far, but
can't seem to get him off of it all together, as the symptoms from the
"stroke" reoccur. She's concerned about having him on this for so long and
doesn't want to cause any more problems with his health.
Have any of you had experience with long term bute usage? Or any
suggestions about things she could be doing to minimize any damage it may
cause?
dorothy & elly
taylorsville, ca
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:56:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: web Site
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980102012956.20174B-100000@klingon>
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On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Linda B. Merims wrote:
> ...It is back
> up right now (though I don't know how long that will last--it
> came back for at least 15 minutes around 7:30 a.m. Eastern
> this morning and then went down again)...
Well, clearly I spoke too soon. It is down again. E-mail
and ftp work, but I can't access the web page.
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:30:19 -0800
To: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jane Sheppard <jane@deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
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It's an interesting thought about the actual hazards encounterd on rides
and the size of horse being ridden. Meggie is short, 13 something and she
always approached the obstacles on the trail with great gusto. Leaping
logs, dodging under low hanging branches, the mud puddles were her least
favorite but we just put on waterwings beforehand. Granted we may never
come in first but with Meggies extended trot that flies over the ground we
still have a fabulous ride.
Visit The Tevis Pony Web Page: http://users.deltanet.com/~jane
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 09:19:44 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Sue Riegel <riegels@cdsnet.net>
Subject: First Ride - Death Valley Encounter
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Well, made my very first LD ride at the DVE. And what an exciting
experience! Not only was it my first "official" ride, but it was the first
time I met and rode the horse I had, and the first time riding with
Lynn Kinsky! (My silent intention was to (1)stay on my horse, and (2)stay
on the trail....if we completed, then that was okay too!)
Ridecamp at the Bumgartner's was an interesting mix of parking styles,
with the overriding motto being "park outside the box". But, everything
worked, and horses and ridecampers had adequate space.
It was cold! Stars were magnificent, as they always are in the desert.
Since it was my first competition, and we felt that the horses were
not in condition to do the 50, Lynn and I decided to do the first day's
30 mile ride and to start after all other riders had left.
We left at 7:20 with no one in sight ahead of us, trying to keep our mounts
in a slow gait. Hah! Footing was solid the first 10 miles, then became
a mix of sand for long stretches, and rocky washes for others. The trail
was lined with lots of huge boulders and rocks......made for some interesting
zig-zagging when you're riding a horse who is suspicious of rocks at best
and boogeys instantly when he thinks they've made a move to "get" him.
The railroad crossing, at about mile 13, was an interesting obstacle,
especially since there was not any fill in the middle, and we had to step
over actual tracks, onto the rock and ties, in order to cross.
One wash entrance coming into the Pinnacles was particularly
challenging, as it was quite steep, footing was loose shale and rock,
and the sides were lined with the horse-killing rocks. Plus the trail
became very narrow at the bottom, with a wall of solid rock on one side,
a mean looking rock on the other side, and a sliding rock stair step for
the trail. After Anejo negotiated it rather well, Lynn commented that Anejo
had never even seen anything like this! (Now she tells me......)
The weather was perfect for our one-day ride. Both Peruvians completed
and vetted in sound. Am I hooked? You bet! Did I learn a lot? Absolutely!
You'll see me and Anejo in '98 in the Oregon rides, and possibly some in
Northern CA or NV. We'll be doing a couple more 25s or 30s, then attempt
our first 50. I can't wait!!
Sue
Peruvians and Keeshonden
So. Oregon
>
>
>
>Sue Riegel, So. Oregon
>Peruvians and Keeshonden
>
>
>
>
Sue Riegel, So. Oregon
Peruvians and Keeshonden
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f4036a7b.34ad27e0@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:46:06 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: web Site
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Hi Sandy--
Must be the web site--I've had problems, too. Just e-mailed Steph about it
within the last hour...
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:08:38 -0500 (EST)
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To: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: RE:Dropping the head
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
On Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 21:25:09 -0800, you wrote:
>My horse has learned to drop his head to avoid/overcome/negate the bit
,and this >occurs near the bottom of hills when he sees the horses ahead
of him cantering up out >of the gully. He "hits hard" or feels very heavy
on the forehand on downhills,and I >absolutely cannot go fast down hills
without feeling that we are gonna wreck.So there >we are in the very spot
where I dare not go fast ,he knows I want to go slower
You might try riding with a snaffle, running martingale and TWO sets
of reins. You can then "snap" the upper rein when he starts to drop the
head and still be able to control how much upward movement he makes when you
correct him. Yes, it takes a bit of practice, but you have a potentially
kind bit and several options with this arrangement. (I connect the
martingale rings with a strap over the neck to prevent the reins sagging
dangerously -- this also allows you to use "open" rein movements)
Try "setting up" a scenario similar to real competition and practice
"pull ups".
Good luck!
Barbara (and Dandy, who spent 2,000 + miles trying to be first even when he
WAS first! -- P.S. the above arrangement didn't work on Dandy -- I ended up
using a Salinas with two set of reins. (now called "Linda Tellington")
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: RE:controlled v. non-controlled
Most of the posts I've read re: controlled starts involved one mile or less
of control. At Biltmore (and years ago at Liberty Bell 50) the control was
for about four miles and led by a good moving horse (8-9 MPH trot)
maintaining as fast a safe pace over the terrain as feasible in the half
light available at start time. When riders know that there's plenty of time
to sort things out before position gives an advantage, I'd think a
controlled start would work. (At Biltmore the control rider carries a glow
stick and holds it high when slowing for tricky terrain -- that way riders
back in the pack know to slow down themselves.)
Barbara (and Larca --- I LOVE having CONTROL!!!!)
P.S. In the above cases the rider was either not a competitor or one who had
declared that they were not going to race.
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To: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: RE:trail safety
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Speaking for the "wimps" of the world, I appreciate knowing WHAT the
trail is going to be like -- not just "safe" or "unsafe". That way I can
plan my ride not to inconvenience others who might not share my difficulty
in judging heights and distance.
If a person has problems with acrophobia, resulting in vertigo, what is safe
for others can be a REAL problem.
Thanks for your concern about how to describe a trail for your potential
contestants.
Barbara (and Zini -- the tourist who LOVED looking over the edge and who
quickly found a new home!)
P.S. Keeping my blood sugar at an even keel has helped my problems with
heights. Eat small frequent meals, even if you're not hungry!
5045 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002432 06453226777 0013122 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from Forsythe.Stanford.EDU (forsythe.Stanford.EDU [36.54.0.16]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24145 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:12:10 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199801021812.KAA24145@fsr.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 98 10:09:56 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: trail safety
REPLY TO 01/01/98 23:14 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: trail safety
Terry Woolley Howe wrote: I would appreciate some feedback from the group.
> Do you riders prefer dirt roads to single tract trails that require
> horsemanship?
God, give me my pony, a single track trail, and MILES of it!
Single track RULES ! Dirt roads are boring! Put on a beautiful ride with
beautiful scenery and more riders will come and enjoy it!
--
Deanne Del Vecchio
-------
I know a lot of people feel this way, but I love a good, wide
fire-road with good footing! I have a somewhat spooky mare, and we
do best when we can get in a good working trot or slow canter and
cruise along, without having to duck branches or dodge rocks or
tree trunks!
In fact, when groups of us ride at Pt. Reyes and they go up the
stair-stepping Greenpicker, I love to cruise up Stewards trail,
which is wide and open.
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Charity/Benefit events
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 13:43:20 -0500
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Has anyone on this list participated in or sponsored an endurance
related event to raise money for a charity?
The saddle club I belonged to as a teenager sponsored a ride for
research which operated like a walkathon except we rode our horses and
collected pledges from friends and family for each mile we rode. All the
money was donated to some equestrian research project, I can'nt remember
which one and all the participants recieved a sew on patch.
Would it be possible to manage a sanctioned endurance ride but at the
same time have the riders collect pledges for a charity just like a
walkathon? Is this legal? Would this turn into a ride managers
nightmare?
I would like to hear the opinions from the ridecamp community.
Thanks,
Suzanne
ssolis@lg.com
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 13:53:26 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Charity/Benefit events
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Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT) wrote:
>
> Has anyone on this list participated in or sponsored an endurance
> related event to raise money for a charity? <SNIP> we rode our horses and
> collected pledges from friends and family for each mile we rode. All the
> money was donated to some equestrian research project
We tried this with my old saddle club - to ride for St. Jude's
Children's Hospital charity. We had abysmal turn out as folks felt that
it was too much trouble to solicit and then collect on the promised
funds.
I would think that a "no frills" ride with any "profits" turned over to
the charity would work as well. Perhaps the vets, etc. would consider
donating part of their time if it was for a good cause. Even on a
non-endurance ride run like this, our club made close to $2000 for the
charity.
Let me know if you have specific questions about how we organized our
rides. We pulled from pleasure riders, fox hunters, CTR, and endurance
by offering several different distances.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:13:48 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: New Thread
>Okay here you go folks! Anyone out there ever compete a horse or even OWN a
>horse with a heart murmur? What do you do with them, how much do you ride and
>do you ever compete them?
Well, *I* have a heart murmer, but it has never slowed me down. ;-).
Anytime I tried to get sympathy for it the Dr. told me forget it. It
doesn't make a difference at all. Of course, I'm sure as with all
things it depends on the severity. Mine is obviously minor.
>Next question - What size horse do you prefer to ride.
15.3. :) But then I might be biased. I've ridden horses from
14 hands to 16+. 16 is a bit tall. 15.2 was just a little
smaller than I'm used to. May have something to do with that fact
that my favorite horse is 15.3.
Yes, he eats a lot more... most likely because he's a TB though...
and he's more expensive to keep than an Arab from what I can tell.
For 6 months last year I worked with a 14.2 1/2 Arab/QH who could
go all day. He was fun to ride and could easily do well. Had to
drop some weight first though.
:) - kat myers ... 5' 7"
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
...with a pretty head and 8 1/4" cannons
"Wow. That's a *big* Arab you have there..."
"No, he's just a *little* Thoroughbred!"
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: trail safety
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 18:40:18 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34b2330a.88702399@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 22:34:07 -0800, Terry Woolley Howe
<cancer@inetworld.net> wrote:
>I would appreciate some feedback from the group.
>Do you riders prefer dirt roads to single tract trails that require
>horsemanship?
I think a ride with too much road is b . o . r . i . n . g. I very
much prefer trails.
>Do you feel uncomfortable on a trail that is 3 feet wide alongside a
>drop off?
No. Oh, I've been on a few like that where I was sorta tense ... but
I'd go back in a hearbeat.
>If you have ever ridden the Mt. Laguna Ride, do you feel the trail is
>too dangerous for endurance?
I haven't ridden there, but from the descriptions I would say no.
Endurance riding isn't for wimps. Someone who wants a boulevard
trail and all the amenities should look elsewhere IMO.
>I would appreciate your input.
My favorite rides, the ones I'll go back to year after year, have lots
of trail and lots of challenge. Sure, when running for points I'll do
the road rides, but they're not as much fun and aren't the ones we
tell stories about later.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: sawdust
Message-ID: <19980102.151243.4383.4.esppatty@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.38
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty A Lambert)
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 15:10:48 EST
I'm posting this for a friend of mine who runs a small boarding stable
nearby. Her sawdust supplier (a lumber mill next door) is telling her
that their next truckload for her will be cherry sawdust. She is
concerned about its safety for use as bedding, knowing that black walnut
is very toxic. Does anyone know if cherry sawdust is safe to use for
bedding? Thanks for your help.
Her name is Sara, Please e-mail me and I'll pass the info to her
esppatty@juno.com
Thanks!
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 12:23:08 -0800
From: Denise <denisek@fsr.com>
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Everyone,
EnduranceNet is down - has been all morning - we are working on it and
hopefully will be back up soon.
thanks
denise
--
denisek@fsr.com ph. 208.882.8869 fax 208.883.3733
First Step EnduranceNet HorseShop
www.fsr.com www.endurance.net www.horse-shop.com
. . . Omit needless words --- Anonymous . . .
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:01:36 -0600
From: "Michael K. Maul" <mmaul@flash.net>
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I have been having trouble reaching the fsr sites - EnduranceNet and
www.aerc.org
since thursday afternoon. It was better this morning but seems off
again.
So far as I know - it has nothing to do with the move of the ride
calendar to
the idaho first step site. nothing was due to happen on that until
steph
returns next week.
Mike
mmaul@flash.net
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 17:00:24 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: trail safety
Cc: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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Terry Woolley Howe wrote:
>I would appreciate some feedback from the group.
> Do you riders prefer dirt roads to single tract trails that require
> horsemanship?
My trail preference depends on the terrain. For overall, I prefer single
tract with wide places for passing. There are still too many "pushy"
riders that will crowd, causing potentially dangerous situations.
> Do you feel uncomfortable on a trail that is 3 feet wide alongside a drop
> off?
YES! I'm slowing getting acclimated to heights (try to ride Smoky Mts or
Big South Fork every 4-6 weeks). On one ride in the Smokies, a
single-tract, 2' trail crumbled twice under Felix's hindquarters -- granted
it wasn't a ridge (only a mountain side), but 200' is further than I want
to fall off a horse!
Vicki Wheeler & Felix ("where do we go this weekend?")
Knoxville, TN
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To: "ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Dangerous Trails
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 98 16:30:35 -0500
From: ROBERT J MORRIS <bobmorris@rmci.net>
X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03
-- [ From: ROBERT J MORRIS * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
RE: Dangerous Trail conditions
I have learned to trust my horses's agility and competency over the last 20
years of riding. I know there are only a few natural obstacles or terrain
that are dangerous for a horse. These are the ones I avoid and don't want in
an endurance ride route.
Icy roads are the worst hazard. Snow that has warmed, been packed down by
cars and snowmobiles is truly dangerous for even an unshod equine. I plan
my winter rides to stay away from it.
Loose talus or scree slopes are equally dangerous. However, once there is a
well used trail packed down by the passage of cattle or wild animals it
becomes safe to ride across at a walk or trot.
Horses don't like to go through low growing brush that traps their feet or
wraps around their legs. Nor can they duck as low as elk. It has taken us
an hour, leading our horses and bending trees to go down an elk trail that
elk trot through.
Stay away from quicksand it is very dangerous but I can't think of anything
else I don't want on an endurance trail.
I recently rode down into a narrow draw I needed to photograph. The bottom
was narrow and full of rocks. We only walked and most of the time no two
legs of my mount were on the same level or angle, nor was the footing the
same for there was rock, sand and piled up branches that had washed down or
blown into the bottom. I was far more apprehensive than my horse, who due to
the slow speed was snacking on prickly lettuce whenever it was available.
I was not competitive and did not want to race as a downhill skier but I
enjoyed almost all the runs except an avalanche chute at Squaw Valley and I
would ski all day. A recent article exhorting humans to get in shape for
skiing also advised moving through a simple obstacle course so that when on
the slopes your body was prepared to make fast turns when necessary to avoid
skiing into a rut or a bare spot.
Let your horses move around obstacles and be on ground with banks or ditches
. This will help your horse(s)s develop their sense of touch on legs and
feet and will prepare them for riding safely out of an arena or show ring on
something besides a dirt road. Animal trails tend to follow contours but
they also go down to cross streams and up steep hillsides. There can be
rocks, down trees and holes from burrowing or tunneling animals.
A smooth graded area may look nicer, but if you want strong, nimble equines,
scatter some obstacles on the way from the barn to the water tank or the
sandy hollow in which they roll. Your ranch may not make the cover of
"Better Homes and Gardens" but you will have fitter horses with no extra
work on your part. I believe that horses who have learned that the land is
not always level will have less chance of an injury when they meet a natural
hazard. Nor will they go too fast on terrain that requires caution.
By picking conditioning terrain, you can build a strong fit horse. Riding up
and down hills at all gaits builds muscles, including the cardiac muscle.
Humans get similar results from going up and down flights of stairs. As the
horse gets stronger, switch from a walk, to a trot and finally a canter. Use
a rock strewn field, down logs, side hills and boggy spots as training areas
. If this is not available, substitute walking over cavaletti, through a
maze of worn-out auto tires or whatever. The level graded pasture or arena
does not develop agility or balance which the horse will need in negotiating
a twisting forest trail or a complicated dressage movement.
I feel there are too many rides on dirt roads and I agree they are boring.
My training rides are my recreation and I look for wildlife, observe erosion
and follow the wild flowers on animal trails, old 2 tracks, cross country
tied together by dirt roads. I trust my mount and let them go at the speed
they feel safest which can be everything from a walk to a downhill canter.
Come join me on the scenic endurance rides in Idaho this summer.
Arlene Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <be6687c0.34ad7890@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:30:17 EST
To: esppatty@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: sawdust
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In a message dated 98-01-02 15:56:54 EST, you write:
<< I'm posting this for a friend of mine who runs a small boarding stable
nearby. Her sawdust supplier (a lumber mill next door) is telling her
that their next truckload for her will be cherry sawdust. She is
concerned about its safety for use as bedding, knowing that black walnut
is very toxic. Does anyone know if cherry sawdust is safe to use for
bedding? Thanks for your help.
Her name is Sara, Please e-mail me and I'll pass the info to her
esppatty@juno.com
Thanks! >>
In my book...ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! A friend of mines horse DIED a few years ago
when his horse ate dry cherry leaves...I would not risk it.
Teddy
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From: "Helga Loncosky" <hblmh@ptd.net>
To: "Endurance Net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>,
"Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
Subject: Re: Honeycomb pads
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:12:14 -0500
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Ooops, Guess that wasn't clear, was thinking too fast, and typing too slow!
My friends are great (Chris and Lucy Snook), the Honeycomb pad are porus,
tough, and don't have holes! <VBG>
Helga Loncosky
hblmh@ptd.net
Beacon Morgan Horses
http://home.ptd.net~hblmh
***********************************************************
"There is something about the outside of a horse
that is good for the inside of a man."
-----------Winston Churchill
----------
> From: Raymond O'Donohue <rayo@cfw.com>
> To: Helga Loncosky <hblmh@ptd.net>
> Subject: Re: Honeycomb pads
> Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 11:33 AM
>
> Helga Loncosky wrote:
> >
> > I have friends in VT who are endurance riders, in fact, that's how I
found
> > out about them. They are located near Brownsville. They are very porus
> > (sp), but do not have holes, and hold up well to gravel. Almost like a
> > foamy type of material. I think they are at least worth a try.
> >
> > Helga Loncosky
> > hblmh@ptd.net
> > Beacon Morgan Horses
> > http://home.ptd.net~hblmh
> > ***********************************************************
> > "There is something about the outside of a horse
> > that is good for the inside of a man."
> > -----------Winston Churchill
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Carol Boardman <Carol.Boardman@Dartmouth.EDU>
> > > To: hblmh@ptd.net; ridecamp@endurance.net
> > > Subject: Re: Honeycomb pads
> > > Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 8:15 AM
> > >
> > > --- "Helga Loncosky" wrote:
> > > I have used them for the rocky terrain we have here in the mountains,
and
> > I
> > > love them, and so does my mare! I think she believes she's wearing
Nike
> > > Air!
> > > --- end of quoted material ---
> > >
> > > How do you think they would work for the gravely type roads we have
in
> > Vermont?
> > > Are there holes in pad? And if so are they small enough to keep fine
> > gravel
> > > out? Right now we're using ShockTamers but I'm willing to try
anything
> > that
> > > works better to help save those legs!
> > >
> > > Carol in Vermont (we're not riding - we're ice skating!)It6's good to
know that your friends are very porous,but do not have
> holes in them,and hold up well in gravel!
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:26:20 -0800
To: esppatty@juno.com
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Cherry Sawdust
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Hi Patty!
Absolutely tell you friend to refuse shipment. Here is a url for
a great Toxic plant page I found:
http://www.horseadvice.com/articles/diseases/poisonmenu.html
One of the things listed is Prunus... Wild Cherries. No point in
taking a chance on Tame Cherries.
Stick to pine, eh?
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
... where yellow star thistle is a big problem.
cc: ridecamp
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 16:03:33 -0800
From: Colin & Cherry Boulain <cb-equi@netcomuk.co.uk>
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Hi
Don't know about half chaps being a western thing, we wear them all the
time here in England.
Cherry
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:59:02 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cherry sawdust
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The comments already posted about cherry being potentially toxic are
correct--I would not risk it.
I would like to add one more comment, though--all of these posts have been
about SAWDUST as opposed to SHAVINGS. I would under NO circumstances use ANY
type of sawdust as bedding. The wood product that makes good bedding is
shavings. Sawdust has many tiny slivers than can get into eyes, respiratory
tracts, etc. when horses lie down in it--I am currently treating a weanling
colt with a tremendous eye irritation that we hauled home recently and
inadvertently got sawdust instead of shavings in the trailer. He didn't even
have to lie down in it--just had it disturbed in the trailer--to get some in
one eye. We have his corneal ulcer cleared up from it, but still don't have
the eye back to normal (still irrititating particles under the lids that are
too tiny for us to see and remove)--NOT a nice situation! So PLEASE stick to
shavings and discontinue the sawdust!
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 19:51:48 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Danger and Trails
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An interesting subject!My observation of dangerous situations has
often been that people such as my dear sister who is scared of everything
at any time are sometimes oblivious to real danger when they encounter
it.!Perhaps due to lack of practice!On the other hand,
One guideline might be "is this neccesary?" Adventurous people
have all learned how to ignore real danger , but I no longer will
do that in order to have recreation or entertainment.And the danger
itself(speaking here of truly,extreme,danger)should never be a part of
that entertainment-that's pretty decadent.I used to road race motorcycles
in spite of the danger,but there was no thrill or pleasure in the danger
itself.I'm new to horses(2 years or so),but I ain't never gonna ride no
narrow ledge!(Ain't gonna wear no spandex either,but that's a dead
horse/thread.)
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 20:39:24 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Re: Controlled Starts vs Non Controlled
In-Reply-To: <199801012029.NAA09393@mail.inficad.com>
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I use a controlled start on my ride, Goethe Challenge, becuase there is a
road crossing about 3/4 of a mile from the start. It is not a busy road,
but it is a paved road and I want to get all the horses (and people)
accross the road as safely as possible. I have ridden rides with
controlled starts and it was usually because of safety reasons or because
the ride started (100's) before light and the leader would lead you down
the trail untill daylight.
These are both good reasons for controlled start. If you want a sane start
on a ride then don't go out with the pack. Wait 10 minutes and go out at
your leasure.
Controlled starts have their place but I don't believe that they are for
every ride.
Truman
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d06f7668.34ada351@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:32:47 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Poinsettias <<<<<>>>>> Poisonous to Horses?
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My sister wants to plant some Christmas poinsettias on my farm. I've asked
her to hold off until I find out if they are toxic to livestock. I don't want
any sick horses.
Does anyone know?
~Nora
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fe0629c2.34ada5b5@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:42:58 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cherry sawdust
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In a message dated 98-01-02 20:22:25 EST, you write:
<< So PLEASE stick to
shavings and discontinue the sawdust!
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon) >>
I use shavings ONLY, but here is the difference:
1. My horses live OUTSIDE and come in only to eat. They have a run-in with
sawdust, but spend most of their time outside.
2. My sawdust is damp, not kiln dried. It is not fine, but coarse. Hence, it
does not blow around.
3. I use facemasks while trailering since it is a MUST to put shavings under
them for long trips and we usually leave the drop-down windows open.
Shavings are nice and soft, but I waste too much. They are also VERY hard to
get. Sawdust from rough-cut wood (as used for pallets instead of that which
comes from cabinetry manufacturers) CAN contain some splinters. But, in 25
years of using the stuff, I have yet to have any problems.
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2cef98bd.34ada5a4@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:42:42 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dangerous Trails
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I rode my own horses down the Grand Canyon a few years ago. They were
essentially greenies (did they first 50 two weeks later). I was scared
shitless. The guide assured me horses didn't want to fall and that they did
not have the fear of heights that I did. So, I toughed it out. Terrified the
entire way. Those "trails" were never meant for horses, much less the mules!!!
But, the memories will always be with me and I learned that horses are sane
enough to take care of you. I did not lose my fear, I just learned to put it
in it's place.
Teddy
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To: twhowe@inetworld.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:13:06 -0800
Subject: Re: trail safety
Message-ID: <19980102.184910.8606.4.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Terry,
I
>can
>understand that someone who had a fear of heights could feel some
>discomfort on one of these sections of the trail,
Anyone who knows me can vouch for the fact that I have an incredible fear
of heights.
I have never had a moment of qualms on the Laguna ride. Sunland yes,
Laguna no.
>Do you riders prefer dirt roads to single tract trails that require
>horsemanship?
I prefer a mix of both with the dirt road at the beginning and end. Some
in the middle so that the
horses don't get log jammed behind a slow poke.
>Do you feel uncomfortable on a trail that is 3 feet wide alongside a
>drop off?
I should, but Laguna's is not that bad.
>If you have ever ridden the Mt. Laguna Ride, do you feel the trail is
>too dangerous for endurance?
No, it's not. The only problem is when the horses get backed up on that
narrow trail.
Kris
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:14:06 -0600
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Re..Pointsetia....They are poisonous to cat and dogs...and don't know about
horses..Elaine
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From: "Karen Steenhof" <steenhof@cyberhighway.net>
To: <bluwolf@earthlink.net>, "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Charity/Benefit events
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 19:36:13 -0700
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> >
> > Has anyone on this list participated in or sponsored an endurance
> > related event to raise money for a charity? <SNIP> we rode our horses
and
> > collected pledges from friends and family for each mile we rode. All
the
> > money was donated to some equestrian research project
>
Our local distance riding club has helped to put on a Horse-A-Thon for
Diabetes for the past several years. It is not an endurance event. It is
an 8-12 mile trail ride. The Diabetes Association gets merchants to donate
prizes that are either raffled off or given to the riders who collect the
most pledges. Last year, there were 350 riders, and they raised more than
$20,000.
Karen Steenhof
Boise, Idaho
steenhof@cyberhighway.net
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:59:05 -0800
Subject: Rice bran
Message-ID: <19980102.175906.8606.2.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
When trying to put on weight, in an endurance horse, how much
rice bran is needed? Beet pulp is not a good option as she doesn't really
like it.
Kris
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To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:06:38 -0800
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
Message-ID: <19980102.175906.8606.0.krisolko@juno.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980101164350.00b2b038@mail.micoks.net>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Thorlo socks are terrific. They have extra padding on the front
>of
>the shin where the stirrup leather rub, also extra thickness at the
>toe
>and heel. The over-the-calf styles actually stay up without falling
>down, they wear like iron, keep my feet warm when wet and wick
>moisture
>away so I don't get SwampFoot. They run about $11-13 a pair, but are
>well worth it.
Where does one get these?
Kris
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <esppatty@juno.com>, "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Cherry Sawdust
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 18:04:27 -0800
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Only partially useful. It doesn't say how much or whether horses are likely
to eat it. For example, bracken fern is poisonous, but it takes rather large
quantities (perhaps 30% of diet). There is absolute no way I can eliminated
it totally from the horse - it grows mouth high to a horse along every
forest trail in the state. They take a bite or two while riding, but
generally lay off the stuff that grows around the edge of the pasture.
Another common plant in our area is foxglove - more poisonous, but even less
likely to be eaten by horses.
I used to be more concerned until I talked with equine toxicologist at
Washington State University and learned what were real problem plants and
what were theoretical. Since these issues are regional, it would be useful
to talk to a vet school in your region. The vet from WSU gives talks to
horse groups on the subject.
Now letting any of these plants get baled with hay or letting a malnourished
horse into a pasture with nothing but these plants would be inviting
trouble, so I don't mean to imply they aren't poisonous.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Myers <kathy@nvolve.com>
To: esppatty@juno.com <esppatty@juno.com>
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 4:38 PM
Subject: Cherry Sawdust
>Hi Patty!
>
>Absolutely tell you friend to refuse shipment. Here is a url for
>a great Toxic plant page I found:
>
>http://www.horseadvice.com/articles/diseases/poisonmenu.html
>
>One of the things listed is Prunus... Wild Cherries. No point in
>taking a chance on Tame Cherries.
>
>Stick to pine, eh?
>
>:) - kat myers
>in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
>... where yellow star thistle is a big problem.
>cc: ridecamp
>
>
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 21:59:44 -0600 (CST)
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: trail safety
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Joe and the gang, Used to ride anything, anywhere, anytime. Had a bad
accident last February and for some reason I now look at things a little
different. First, a 3 foot trail next to a drop off dosen't seem like
much. Just trail and drop off would get my attention. We have an area
along a bluff nest to the Ohio River where we train. Over the years the
trail has worn and in spots goes from maybe 3 to 4 foot wide to just the
path and then there is the drop off. Used to run this section all the
time. Walk it now. Must be the age factor. Don't feel older, maybe just
a little wiser. Jerry Fruth..Hickory Ridge
)
(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24)
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 22:08:49 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Kristen L Olko <krisolko@juno.com>
cc: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
In-Reply-To: <19980102.175906.8606.0.krisolko@juno.com>
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> > Thorlo socks are terrific. They have extra padding on the front
----
> >Where does one get these?
----
Okay, I got out all my catalogs (took me awhile) and found them in Campmor
-- two whole pages of Thorlo socks! I'm so confused -- which ones are
you talking about, Susan? Lots of them have padding in all different
places, different thicknesses, etc. Do you have a particular favorite?
I see Thorlo socks for hiking, trekking, extreme weather, mountain
climbing, in-line skating, tennis, walking, skiing, running and
snowboarding ... none for endurance riding! <bg>
Glenda & Lakota (I already have 3 white socks, I don't need no more!)
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:13:21 -0600 (CST)
To: krisolko@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Rice bran
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Kris, Try adding about 1/4 cup of molasses olong with the rice bran, and
your other grain, all mixed together. A little corn oil on tio of all that
may help. Jerry Fruth ...Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT
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To: krisolko@juno.com
Cc: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:14:34 EST
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
Message-ID: <19980103.001605.4886.1.benamil@juno.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980101164350.00b2b038@mail.micoks.net>
<19980102.175906.8606.0.krisolko@juno.com>
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I buy them at the local Army-Navy surplus store, which sells all kinds of
hiking and camping supplies and clothing.
On Thu, 1 Jan 1998 21:06:38 -0800 krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
writes:
>
> Thorlo socks are terrific. They have extra padding on the front
>>of
>>the shin where the stirrup leather rub, also extra thickness at the
>>toe
>>and heel. The over-the-calf styles actually stay up without falling
>>down, they wear like iron, keep my feet warm when wet and wick
>>moisture
>>away so I don't get SwampFoot. They run about $11-13 a pair, but are
>>well worth it.
>
>Where does one get these?
>
>Kris
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 19:23:40 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Subject: bone chip and vet in
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As I said before, my gelding Pro xrayed with a small chip on his medial
sesamoid bone. After a month off, we have started riding him again, and
so far so good.
My question is, if we are able to compete again (without surgery to
remove the chip), should I "declare" the fact that he has it at the vet
in?
opinons please.......
tracy
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:07:12 -0600
To: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <19980102160704934.AAD237.261@pcda>
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No. They aren't yucckky at all. They hold up well in a fanny pack or at
camp and taste good. I shared the idea with a training buddy this weekend,
and she decided it would be good trail food for her too,. The only downside
is Star will sometimes grabe them right out of my hand if I'm not careful.
He's got quite a sweet tooth!
chris paus & star
At 07:48 AM 1/2/98 -0800, you wrote:
>COLD pop tarts? Yuck!!
>
>Or, do you carry a toaster??? <g>
>
>dorothy & elly
>taylorsville, ca
>
>----------
>> From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
>> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>> Subject: Re: ride food
>> Date: Thursday, January 01, 1998 7:00 PM
>>
>> My favorite trail food is pop tarts. Star likes them too.
>>
>> chris paus & star
>>
>> At 07:16 PM 1/1/98 -0600, you wrote:
>> >Santa brought me a copy of "The One Pan Gourmet" and suddenly I'm
>getting
>> >very enthusiastic about ride food! (Has anyone made the Hudson Bay
>Bread
>> >for vet check sandwiches? It sounds like it has good potential! :)
>> >
>> >I know there were a few posts this summer about what to eat during
>breaks
>> >that's filling and won't upset your tummy, and food you can carry with
>> >you, and while reading my new book, which has lots of yummy recipes for
>> >night-before and after-ride meals, I started thinking about compiling a
>
>> >Ride Food FAQ that would cover "just before" & "during" ride foods.
>Anyone
>> >care to contribute? Just send me ideas or simple recipes and I'll
>> >collect them for awhile and put them in a FAQ that Steph can post on
>> >www.endurance.net.
>> >
>> >(Somebody stop me if there's already one up. I thought I'd read all the
>
>> >FAQs online already, but I coulda missed one, and I can't get the site
>up
>> >right now to double-check.)
>> >
>> >(Tracy, are you happy? I'm trying to get another new thread going!
><bg>)
>> >
>> >Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
>> >
>> >
>
>
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 21:11:49 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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> If you have ever ridden the Mt. Laguna Ride, do you feel the trail is
> too dangerous for endurance?
>
Terry, I only rode Mt. Laguna once and that was in '87, so don't know if
same trails, but it was my (and my horse's) very first 50 and I didn't
have a clue of what the bejesus I was doing. I had a wonderful ride
(finished dead last) and was hooked forever. I don't remember anything
at all about the trails being "too dangerous". I've also ridden your
Southern California Extravaganza in '93, this time on a hotter, much
friskier horse and remember spending time picking my way along the PCT,
and still didn't mind it a bit and had a great time. As a matter of
fact, it was one of my very favorite trails because of the variety of
scenery and challenges---something for everyone. Although I do remember
joking with friends that part of the hairier portions were a little
squirrely for the 25 mile first-timers, and that we'd scare them all
off! For the fifty, though, no sweat, and I am NOT one of those riders
that gets a charge out of galloping willy-nilly along cliff faces!
The only trail I have ever ridden that I considered just a tiny bit over
the edge was the '93 Old Warriors Water Hunt, where quite a bit of trail
really was alongside very sheer drop-offs, climbing over big boulders
that IMHO too easily could have trapped a hoof or leg and had several
dozen water crossings where the horse had to jump or scramble on or off
the bank. But even then, I much preferred completing a really tough
course that took alot of thinking, rather than just cruising along just
another dirt road for fifty miles. Nice footing and flat terrain is
great when you get it, but if you have to spend part of the day really
paying attention to what you're doing (within reason) then you
appreciate the easy parts and having completed the ride that much more.
Seems to me that no one remembers rides that just cruise along...they
remember scrambling over Cougar Rock, the rocky canyons at Sunland,
Bulldog Hill at Malibu...isn't that the point?
Just my .02, of course.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 21:14:17 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: twhowe@inetworld.net
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Warner Springs
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>
> Kris,
>
> I think I will have some "badges" made up that individuals can wear
> that indicate that they are members of ridecamp. They will be available
> at the check in desk. There will be a place that you can write you name
> and also any alias that you might use (for instance, Peggasis will be
> coming).
>
> Terry
Will the badges say "In case of mishap, someone check my e-mail"...? <g>
Susan
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:19:07 -0600
To: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: trail safety
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <199801021812.KAA24145@fsr.com>
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I like a nice combination. We can make good time on roads, but I also like
windy, twisty trails in the woods and a few good hills. Star gets a gleam
in his eye when we get to hills, the steeper the better! I am acrophobic,
and haven't done any terrifying one track trails on mountainsides yet....
chris paus & star
At 10:09 AM 1/2/98 PST, you wrote:
>REPLY TO 01/01/98 23:14 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: trail safety
>
>
>Terry Woolley Howe wrote: I would appreciate some feedback from the group.
>
>> Do you riders prefer dirt roads to single tract trails that require
>> horsemanship?
>
>God, give me my pony, a single track trail, and MILES of it!
>
>Single track RULES ! Dirt roads are boring! Put on a beautiful ride with
>beautiful scenery and more riders will come and enjoy it!
>--
>Deanne Del Vecchio
>
>-------
>I know a lot of people feel this way, but I love a good, wide
>fire-road with good footing! I have a somewhat spooky mare, and we
>do best when we can get in a good working trot or slow canter and
>cruise along, without having to duck branches or dodge rocks or
>tree trunks!
>
>In fact, when groups of us ride at Pt. Reyes and they go up the
>stair-stepping Greenpicker, I love to cruise up Stewards trail,
>which is wide and open.
>
>Karen
>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>
>
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:30:08 -0600
From: Alice Morgan <acmorgan@gte.net>
Reply-To: acmorgan@gte.net
Organization: Star-M Stables
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To: Dorothy Beebe <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stroke & Bute
References: <19980102163257196.AAC237.154@pcda>
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Dorothy--I own a boarding stable here in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, and I have
had to administer bute to horses on a long term basis a few times. I have a
26yr old (client's) mare who is arthritic and has been on bute for about 4
years now with absolutely no gastric problems. My vet has me giving her 2
grams/day for 5 days , then 2 days off to give the stomach a rest. She gets
her bute Mon - Fri, and has the weekends off. We have had no problems with
this method. I administer the bute by crushing it in a mortar and pestle,
mixing it with applesauce and molasses, and putting it in a syringe. Its much
cheaper than the paste. Hope this helps! Alice
Dorothy Beebe wrote:
> I'm posting this for a friend--She's looking for help and opinions....
>
> She has an older (30+ I think) gelding named Dan. In 1994 she had her
> horse checked out by a vet at UCD after being told by her local vet that he
> had had a stroke. The UCD vet thought that Dan had some sort of
> "neurological" problem, but says that a stroke is very unusual in horses.
>
> Her questions, though, mainly concern bute. Her horse is taking 1/2 gram a
> day, and has been for several years. She's weaned him down that far, but
> can't seem to get him off of it all together, as the symptoms from the
> "stroke" reoccur. She's concerned about having him on this for so long and
> doesn't want to cause any more problems with his health.
>
> Have any of you had experience with long term bute usage? Or any
> suggestions about things she could be doing to minimize any damage it may
> cause?
>
> dorothy & elly
> taylorsville, ca
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <44197d49.34adcd27@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:31:17 EST
To: Cyberpony@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Poinsettias <<<<<>>>>> Poisonous to Horses?
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Poinsetta?
Yes, they can be toxic.
Heidi
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 21:43:48 -0800
To: twhowe@inetworld.net
From: Becky Hackworth <bechack@flash.net>
Subject: Re: trail safety
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Do you riders prefer dirt roads to single tract trails that require
>horsemanship?
>Do you feel uncomfortable on a trail that is 3 feet wide alongside a
>drop off?
>If you have ever ridden the Mt. Laguna Ride, do you feel the trail is
>too dangerous for endurance?
As the mother of the Jr that fell off the cliff, this trail is not any more
dangerous than any other. Our incident was purely an accident. This is
also a very close to home trail, and we have actually gone out there for
training rides. !
I feel you need to go slow when the trail dictates, whether it is rock,
cliff, thick brush, ice/snow or whatever. Our horse took a bad step and
slipped/fell. That can happen anywhere, this time it just happened in a bad
spot.
I would hate it if all rides were only on jeep roads. I hate prolonged jeep
road trails. I much prefer a good mix of road and single track. My mare is
excells at single track!
I vote for mixed trail! Leave Mt Laguna as is!
Becky Hackworth
Alpine CA
Katies' Mom
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c659fd4a.34adcdba@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:33:44 EST
To: zebella@IDT.NET
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: bone chip and vet in
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Tracy--
Yes, please do--it helps us monitor the situation and let you know how he is
coming along. A lot of these evetually do just fine. Just don't become one
of those x-ray totin' fools that thinks an "off" horse should get through
because he has an old owie.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e8109796.34adcffd@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:43:14 EST
To: krisolko@Juno.Com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Rice bran
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Kris--
Rice bran is not my first choice--first I would evaluate your roughage (GOOD
quality grass or alfalfa hay, or GOOD pasture), and if your horse's appetite
is not sufficient to really clean up the roughage, try some B-complex to
stimulate appetite. I would try to work some oil into the diet--this has to
be done a little at a time, since horses have no gall bladder to store bile to
digest big doses of fat all at once. If it is introduced gradually, though,
they can increase bile production to digest it. Rice bran would be something
I would only try if everything else is right and it still isn't working.
Regarding beet pulp--I understand from the people at LMF that Kentucky Equine
Research found beet pulp to be one of the poorest fiber sources for producing
volatile fatty acids--you might want to check out some of that research, as I
do not have all the details.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 22:02:40 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: Kristen L Olko <krisolko@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: socks
References: <3.0.1.32.19980101164350.00b2b038@mail.micoks.net> <19980102.175906.8606.0.krisolko@juno.com>
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Kristen L Olko wrote:
>
> Thorlo socks are terrific. They have extra padding on the front
> >of
> >the shin where the stirrup leather rub, also extra thickness at the
> >toe
> >and heel. The over-the-calf styles actually stay up without falling
> >down, they wear like iron, keep my feet warm when wet and wick
> >moisture
> >away so I don't get SwampFoot. They run about $11-13 a pair, but are
> >well worth it.
>
> Where does one get these?
>
> Kris
REI carries them, also Sports Chalet or any decent sporting goods
store. I like the Basketball over-the-calf style, or the heavier Skiing
style that have really nice padding across the shins, toe and heel. I
think there is also a lightweight Skiing style that's nice for summer
riding. So anywhere that carries ski equipment will probably carry
them. It's worth calling around. Barbara Madill also said there's an
outlet in SC---if I can get more info, I'll post it on the list. Why
these socks aren't carried by some of the endurance suppliers, I dunno.
I adore them, and as of yesterday's ride, so does my husband
(great---now there's going to be a pre-ride scramble for the sock drawer
to snag the last clean pair of socks every time!)
Anyway, for anyone who's gotten fed up with getting a leg pinched
between biothane stirrup leathers and the saddle, and/or socks that
always fall down or just aren't long enough (I'm 5'11" and have VERY
long legs), these socks are a godsend.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 01:08:11 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
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Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
> I see Thorlo socks for hiking, trekking, extreme weather, mountain
> climbing, in-line skating, tennis, walking, skiing, running and
> snowboarding ... none for endurance riding! <bg>
I use the ones for skiing. They have tick toes/balls of the feet and
are thicker (padded) in the shins. They work GREAT!
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:13:46 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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Subject: Ridecamp at WS Ride
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Those members of ridecamp who have entered the Warner Springs Ride and
would like a Ridecamp nametag, should email me (privately) with their
name, home town, and any alias that they use on ridecamp and I will make
up a name tag and put it in their ride packet. This would also be a
good time for the lurkers to “come out of the closet”. Ride volunteers
should also email me with their information so I can have a name tag
for them also.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:17:10 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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Subject: Warner Springs Ride Full
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The Warner Springs Ride is no longer accepting entries. I originally
was limiting the entries to 130, but because Warner Springs Resort was
able to make some changes for the dinner, we were able to increase the
number to 160. We have since reached (and actually exceeded) that
figure.
Those coming to the ride: Don’t forget your swimsuit. No matter how
stretched out your swimsuit and/or body is, you don’t want to miss the
102 degree olympic size hot mineral pool. After the awards dinner on
Saturday, we’ll have a hosted bar at the pool with hot buttered rums, G
& T’s; etc., as well as soft drinks and wine.
There is also still space for those who would like to join us Sunday
morning for breakfast and the talk by Dr. Louie Enos.
Terry
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Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:33:52 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Duncan Fletcher <dfletche@gte.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net, Jo Harper <mjo@navix.net>
Subject: Re: Jo Harper and the Rescue Posts
In-Reply-To: <01bd16e2$35330d00$LocalHost@duncanfl>
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On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Duncan Fletcher wrote:
> For Jo's benefit, Steph Teeter is administrative contact for ridecamp. She
> is the one to make any decisions about appropriate content in posts to
> ridecamp.
And Steph was out of town....she went toDeath Valley. :)
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 00:02:40 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
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Organization: Lynne Glazer Microsystems
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To: twhowe@inetworld.net
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Warner Springs Ride Full
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>> After the awards dinner on Saturday, we=92ll have a hosted bar at the =
pool with hot buttered rums, G & T=92s; etc., as well as soft drinks and =
wine.<<
How can you make a great ride any better? Whooooeee!
Will the vendors be down at ridecamp or up at the lodge? Panting
shoppers want to know...
Lynne
and Rem-member Me (who got enough water at Oak Springs, thanks)
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 00:21:29 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
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To: hotspots@fast.net
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Subject: Re: supplements
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Ember, the only one of the 3 old enough or young enough to do endurance,
gets Dynamite Plus (1.5 oz/day) to supplement her low-protein alfalfa
pellets in the morning, oat hay at night. She also gets a pound of Ace
High's Performance Plus 606 which contains some lactobacillus
acidopholus; it's a complete pelleted feed which fools her nicely about
what she's getting vs. other horses who are fed grain though there's
likely some vitamin overlap. She is an easy keeper who has lost the
pudgy baby look, finally, at 6.
She also gets free choice 1:1 and 2:1 mineral mix, she prefers the 2:1
and ignores an ordinary mineral salt block in favor of it.
Lynne
and Rem-member Me
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 00:39:10 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
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To: Kristen L Olko <krisolko@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Warner Springs
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I'll see you there, Kris, at least we now know what each others' rigs
and horses look like!
For those I haven't met, 4h gn Sundowner badly needing an acid wash,
bronze Dodge dually, grey Arabs--substantial Ember and perhaps petite
'Mosa in a portable corral on the right side of the rig. If Ember
pesters 'Mosa too much he'll be tied on the other side of the trailer.
On second thought, depending on time of day, the truck could be with
friends staying up at the bungalow. My friend Pam Haynes is coming down
from Idaho to give a local horse his first LD ride.
Lynne
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Subject: Dangerous Trails
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"Only dangerous when the horses get backed up on the trail...."
Isn't that sometimes inevitable?
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: Osceola - water is down!
I just got an E-note from Janet Beagle, manager of Osceola:
>Great News, the water is down and I am amazed at how much. I wont have to
>reroute....
>I just did the trails on a 14 hand quarter horse with no problems, so if I
>can anyone can.
Hope this encourages those of you who didn't want to have to pack your water
wings!
Barbara
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From: "Cam/Shannon Wood" <wood.cameron@acd.net>
Subject: Re: Ride food
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 98 09:26:03 PST
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----------
>
> Cold milk, cold milk and more cold milk--don't leave home without it!
>
> Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
Wow, interesting! I used to drink lots of milk before rides, too ....
Carnation instant breakfast in it was a favorite ... but 45 minutes down
the trail and I was in major GI distress! No fun when there's nothing but
trees and no T.P. Normally I don't have a problem digesting milk and I
love the stuff, just can't handle dairy before a ride.....anybody else, or
am I wierd?
Shannon W., LVT -- Laingsburg, MI
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:00:05 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <980103090003_1294078833@mrin51.mx>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Administering pills.
Alice Morgan wrote
.
. I administer the bute by crushing it in a mortar and pestle,
mixing it with applesauce and molasses, and putting it in a syringe. Its
much
cheaper than the paste. Hope this helps! Alice
A much easier method is to throw whatever pills you want to administer
into a blender, add a little HOT water, spin it on high, and you have your
"paste." Pour it into the old-style paste wormer syringes that you can set
at various levels. You can mix up enough for several doses.
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:17:18 -0500
From: Pete and Deb LaBerge <plaberge@epix.net>
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Subject: Thorlo socks/vendor
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An endurance vendor with Thorlo socks is Australian
Connection. I discovered the Thorlo socks @ AERC Convention at
their booth, love them, and continue to purchase them at
the convention every year. The knee highs are in the
1997 Australian Connection catalog.
Their # is 800-847-8521
Debbie LaBerge
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From: "John & Sue Greenall" <greenall@vermontel.com>
Organization: Thorny Hills Farms
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:56:31 -500
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Subject: re:poinsettias
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I was concerned about poinsettias in the house at Christmas. I
called the Dartmouth poison center and they assured me that my
cat/dog would have to eat the entire plant to even show any illness.
Now, in the case of a horse and a large poinsettia tree????
John and Sue Greenall
mailto:greenall@vermontel.com
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 08:53:39 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Administering pills.
In-Reply-To: <980103090003_1294078833@mrin51.mx>
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I hide it in apples
chris paus
At 09:00 AM 1/3/98 -0500, you wrote:
>Alice Morgan wrote
>.
>. I administer the bute by crushing it in a mortar and pestle,
>
>mixing it with applesauce and molasses, and putting it in a syringe. Its
>much
>
>cheaper than the paste. Hope this helps! Alice
> A much easier method is to throw whatever pills you want to administer
>into a blender, add a little HOT water, spin it on high, and you have your
>"paste." Pour it into the old-style paste wormer syringes that you can set
>at various levels. You can mix up enough for several doses.
>
>
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 10:35:31 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Sally Spangler <stepnout@swva.net>
Subject: honeycomb pads vendor?
1) I'd like to try the honeycomb pads after the spring thaw. Who sells them
(my farrier doesn't know)?
2)My mare apparently sprained something in her right hind fetlock. Swelling
is staying mostly down as long as she's not doing pirouettes. A friend told
me to use a poultice and a wrap to shrink tissues, otherwise the edema could
permanently stretch the soft tissue and keep it boggy. Can anyone comment
on that idea or tell me what is used and how? My vet doesn't use them and
can't comment one way or the other.
Sally Spangler (stepnout@swva.net)
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Message-ID: <34AE705C.5E8C@bc.sympatico.ca>
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:07:40 -0800
From: Cathy Foster <Cathy_Foster@bc.sympatico.ca>
Reply-To: Cathy_Foster@bc.sympatico.ca
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To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980101172139.3824B-100000@consider.theneteffect.com> <3.0.1.32.19980101205347.00b2ba9c@mail.micoks.net>
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Chris Paus wrote:
>
> Tracy,
>
> My tall, leggy Arab also hops sideways. And he is 10. But his better trick
> is coming to a complete halt in mid stride when he sees something scary
> that I don't see. Other riders get worried looks on their faces when I go
> flying over Star's head. But Star just stands there waiting for me to get
> back on and away we go.
>
> He may have long legs, but he is agile and quick as a cat.
>
> But he IS getting better about the whole thing. One of my training buddies
> commented that she hasn't seen him shy for a long time.
>
> chris paus & star
>
> At 05:40 PM 1/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
> >> with 2 TB mares whose riders kept exclaiming over how "sure-footed" Lakota
> >> is, how he zigged and zagged around the trees, fallen logs, over streams,
> >
> >When my husband is riding behind me he often comments that Pro just
> >lengthens or shortens his stride to miss rocks or holes in the trail.
> >
> >When he was riding the old (and half blind) Quarter mare, they would hit
> >every single thing in the trail...maybe she was going by feel!
> >
> >The tall arab seems to do pretty well missing things too, what you have
> >to watch for with him is the unexpected leaps 6 feet to the
> >side....he's coming 10 this year...dare I hope he'll ever mature?
> >
> >tracy
> >
> >
It's funny you should say that I've got a 15.1 hand Arab and he is 11
years old going on 12 this year and I would almost swear that our horses
are related because mine will do the same thing--it doesn't matter the
speed but if something looks like it's going to eat him he stops/spins
to go the other way; I fly over the head and then he stops and waits for
me to try that again.... I wonder if he will ever stop doing that--oh
well that's life. I've owned him since he was 2 I must be a glutton for
punishment.
Cathy and Moses (hey Mom what's that up ahead, we should turn around
right now and go the other way!)
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 11:37:24 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "C.M.Newell" <reshan@deyr.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: bone chip and vet in
In-Reply-To: <c659fd4a.34adcdba@aol.com>
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>... Just don't become one
>of those x-ray totin' fools that thinks an "off" horse should get through
>because he has an old owie.
I just *love* it when I tell someone their horse is lame at a vet in, and
get the reply, "Oh, he always moves like that."
I've taken to telling them, "then he's always lame, isn't he?"
Don't get me wrong--I know there are horses out there with mechanical gait
abberations. But it always blows me away when someone wants to take a sore
horse out at the start of a ride. I can't figure how you could ride
distances and not have a decent enough relationship with your horse to be
concerned if he's painful. Fortunately, it's not all that common.
--CMNewell, DVM
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 08:50:34 -0800
From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
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Subject: Re: trail safety
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There will be some people who feel some trails are dangerous while others deem them
acceptable. Horse riding is more dangerous than many sports. The most important concern
for ride managers should be to adequately describe the conditions of your ride in the
ride entry form. That way we can chose which horse (the safe one or the nutty one) to
take to a ride based on how narrow, steep, difficult the trail is. Or to skip the ride
entirely and do an easier, flatter ride.
Remember it is the rider who is responsible for their horse and their self. Be
prepared, ask questions and enjoy the challenge. Call the RM personally to get further
updates on the trail if you have a questionable horse. And if it gets too bad get off
and lead your horse home.
Jim Mitchell (a veteran in walking horses home for various reasons)
t
Subject: Re: trail safety
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There will be some people who feel some trails are dangerous while others deem them
acceptable. Horse riding is more dangerous than many sports. The most important concern
for ride managers should be to adequately describe the 5104 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003340 06453471175 0013107 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [204.216.64.33]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA17913 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:16:41 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 08:57:09 -0800
From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
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RUN4BEAR wrote:
>
> I rode my own horses down the Grand Canyon a few years ago. They were
> essentially greenies (did they first 50 two weeks later). I was scared
> shitless. The guide assured me horses didn't want to fall and that they did
> not have the fear of heights that I did. .... I learned that horses are sane
> enough to take care of you.
I have to disagree with the last statement. I rode a TB in 5 endurance rides, she may
not have had a fear of heights but her self preservation instinct wasn't good enough
for me. She stepped backwards off a narrow trail when she got scared and flipped over
backwards, luckily I rolled off the side and was not hurt. She flipped over backwards
twice more trying to lead her out of the canyon she fell into. Amazingly she walked out
of the stiffness and we did another 50 3 weeks later. However I never felt safe on her
again and sold her back into the hunter world where she is happily contained inside a
ring on flat ground.
Jim Mitchell
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:23:55 -0800
From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
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Subject: Death Valley Encounter
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My family had a really great time at the DVE. We took 3 horses and each did 2 days.
My daughter rode the last 2 days while I rode Days 1,2 &4 and my wife rode day 3. There
is so much I could say about each day but I'm not that energetic to keep writing!
We had some minor problems with some of the horses, but nothing major and they all
looked great on new years day and ready to start another 50. I couldn't be happier with
their performance and current state of health considering their condition going into the
ride. We plan on riding them all easily today they look so good. JD is all puffed up and
strutting around his pasture wanting to know when he can go again.
The vets and help was great, the camping spots really nice. Thanks to Jim and Jackie
for continueing to put on a nice multi day right in my back yard.
For the number crunchers, day 2, the day not to miss had a climb from 1000 ft to 6250
ft in 7 miles after you had already ridden 30 miles with a 1000 ft climb and 2000 ft
descent in the morning. And a lot of this over rocky trails. After the 7 mile climb you
had flat meadows and more climbing to the highest point at 7300 feet in the snow.
However as Julie Moreland and I crested the summit at 5:00 PM with a beautiful sunset
Julie commented that it was all worth it. And it was. I could have skipped day 2 and had
enough horse to finish days 3 & 4 but I'm glad I didn't skip it. ( I'm not sure my horse
agreed right then).
I think I'm hooked on multi days, now how can I quit work so I can do all the multi
days and afford this.
Congratulations to all who attended and had a really nice time.
Jim Mitchell
Bakersfield, Ca.
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:50:39 -0800
To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, twhowe@inetworld.net
From: Jane Sheppard <jane@deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: trail safety
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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>The only trail I have ever ridden that I considered just a tiny bit over
>the edge was the '93 Old Warriors Water Hunt,
Sue, this ride had me going the whole way. I do remember screaming at
Meggie as we were being swept under water under a log, "We're going to
die!!!" But actually it was great fun. It rated up there with the Tevis in
levels of fun and scariness. Jane
Visit The Tevis Pony Web Page: http://users.deltanet.com/~jane
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ssolis@lg.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Charity/Benefit events
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:54:51 PST
Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT) wrote:
>
> Has anyone on this list participated in or sponsored an endurance
> related event to raise money for a charity? <SNIP> we rode our horses
and
> collected pledges from friends and family for each mile we rode. All
the
> money was donated to some equestrian research project
Suzanne,
Some committees I helped found, including one called Northern Colorado
Endurance Riders (NCER), put on numerous benefit events over the years.
Starting in 1988, our favorite charity was Front Range Exceptional
Equestrians, a riding program for physically/mentally challenged youth.
We used various formats for actually collecting the funds to donate.
ie, pledges, raffles, calcuttas, just donating profit. These methods
all worked to some extent or another. However, the committee
invironment is helpful in taking on these sorts of endeavors, because
some members will have specific fund raising tasks.
We did not raise huge amounts for this charity, but enough to do some
good. The best profit years were ones when we could get members of the
charity's board to work on our fund raising committee. This created a
great pool of human rescourse for the entire event!
NCER is currently inactive. But, Brad Patterson, who took over the
rides we established, still donates some ride $ for charity.
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Midwest rides
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:58:02 -0600
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Is there any one out there that rides in the Midwest..? Would like
information on trails and groups in the same. Thanks Elaine - Wisconsin
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 15:27:14 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Pat Gluckin <a1234@gte.net>
Subject: midwest rides
At 12:58 PM 1/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Is there any one out there that rides in the Midwest..? Would like
>information on trails and groups in the same. Thanks Elaine - Wisconsin
>
Hi Elaine,
I'm from Indiana and have seen some of the trails at the Chicken Chase in
Henryville, IN and the White Water rides in Hesperia, MI. I am not an
endurance rider as yet. Still working at it.
Hesperia has mostly flat easy trails. Absolutely beautiful! Many pine
forests with pine bedding to ride on and non-gravel two tracks. Most of the
trails allow for 2 or 3 abreast riding. The trails are so nice that I think
a horse could do them barefooted. I only walked 10 of the miles (one loop)
so I'm generalizing the rest of the trip. I grew up in that area.
Quite the opposite is true of Henryville (Clarks State Forest). Very hilly,
rough traveling in places but breathtaking!! We got to see it on a wet
weekend after many wet days prior to the ride. Some riders pulled because
they felt the terrain might compromise their or their horses'safety.
There are riders on ridecamp who have been to the Henryville rides who could
advise you better. Maybe some have been to the Michigan rides. The Petosky
ride is supposedly very sandy and rough on horses that aren't conditioned
for that kind of turf.
By the way, you might want to check out the multiday ride that is across the
state of MI in August. It will be their 2nd run. 5o miles each day. Info in
is the midwest AERC rides for 1998.
I bet Wisconsin has some gorgeous trails. Especially up in the north.
Good luck and enjoy.
Pat
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'rayo@cfw.com'" <rayo@cfw.com>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: I am not a "Guest"
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:09:06 -0800
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Ray, I'm not sure exactly what the confusion is ....
If you are a subscriber than you can just send email
to the list - address it to ridecamp@endurance.net.
The 'guest@endurance.net' is a webpage email form
which allows non-subscribers to post to the list. It's
the only way that a non-subscriber can send a message,
but certainly not necessary if you are subscribed.
Steph
>>>>> "guest" == guest <guest@endurance.net> writes:
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!! You must post
> replies to the actual sender listed below.
> From: Ray O'Donohue Email: rayo@cfw.com
> I am NOT a Guest. I am subscriber.Why on earth don't you ditch
> this format? The net is full of Bulletin Boards that one can
> access and use effortlessly.
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: endurance web site problems
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:16:55 -0800
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> On Fri, 2 Jan 1998, Glenda R Snodgrass wrote...
>> I haven't been able to get on either, and assume it is
>> connected with the move of the ride calendar
no, not really...
... and maybe
>> Steph's attendance at the Death Valley Encounter? <bg>
well... yes, sort of :)
A glitch in our main internet pipe wreaked havoc with our servers,
and it took some time to get things working again (our main
sysadmin was on a skydiving vacation in Arizona :) There are still a few
problems... but mostly we're back up now.
Had a GREAT time though! Will write more
about our trip later. Sorry about the mess.
Steph
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Enough of Dangerous Free Filly
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:17:56 -0800
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Thanks Kim, I'm glad you said something. Please folks,
stick to endurance/distance riding when posting to the
entire group.
Steph
>>>>> "Kim" == Kim Fue <KimFue@aol.com> writes:
> I really think many of the posts on this subject since the
> original have drifted away from endurance riding topics and
> should be posted privately by interested parties. Maybe another
> equestrian list would be more appropriate for placing the
> "dangerous free filly" and the topics/discussions that have spun
> off of the original post.
> Kim Fuess
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Kimberly's ride
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:18:52 -0800
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I have only good things to say about Lari's Orlov/Arab
cross horses. Heart, speed, substance - they are wonderful.
Steph
>>>>> "Lari" == Lari Shea <larishea@www.horse-vacation.com> writes:
> "Nature's Sungari" (brother of Steph's Nature's Quicksilver and
> Nature's Khruschev) wanted me to tell folks that he was the
> horse who took Kimberly for that gallop on the beach the other
> day. And he blushingly reveals he was the first leased horse,
> placing 18th, not 47th, at the Pan Am Championship 100 miler,
> with Ariel Adjiman, from Brazil.
> Lari
> Lari Shea http://www.horse-vacation.com Ricochet Ridge Ranch
> Riding Vacations on the Mendocino Coast with 24201 North Highway
> One Lodging at Unique B&B Inns; International Riding. Fort
> Bragg, CA 95437 Akhal Teke and Russian Orlov/cross horses
> 707-964-7669ph/ 707-964-9669 fax At stud: RRR Stolichnaya & RRR
> Russia
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:33:32 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801040033.QAA29724@fsr.com>
Subject: ignore this post
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: testpost
Email: test@fsr.com
test post
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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:02:50 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
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Subject: Paso Fino
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From: Debby
Email: rstai@flash.net
What about a Paso Fino for endurance, I've read some about Foxtrotters but not seen much about Paso's and how they could be trained to do endurance.
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 20:29:39, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: safe trails
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The only TRUE hazard to me is to have to SWIM your horse. Do not, for a
second, think all horses can swim. My stallion cannot. When we took him
swimming, he immediately flipped over backwards, thought he was dying, legs
in the air...my husband was able to turn him over and he immediately did it
again! Imagine if there was a current! He will now panic if he gets up to
his chest in water, and yes, I did the Old Dominion...with floaties on his bridle!
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
Home of FA AL BADI+/ (who cannot swim but sure can run!)
Oklahoma
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 17:59:49 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: Jane Sheppard <jane@deltanet.com>
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Subject: Tevis Pony Cartoon
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Jane:
I just read about your "Tevis Pony" adventure on your web page and had to tell
you: what an adorable story! I loved the way you put it together, one frame at
a time. I thoroughly enjoyed it!
RideCampers: It you havn't read the Tevis Pony's story, take a minute to do
so! Quite entertaining!
> Visit The Tevis Pony Web Page: http://users.deltanet.com/~jane
--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
Trial Riding in the Sierra:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/5157/
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 21:44:41 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Dropping the head.
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Folks,please give me some opinions re my recent post about head
dropping to evade rating. I need all the help I can get. Wisdom & caution
say to replace this horse,but if you saw him or rode him you'd see why I
can't bring myself to part with him,and this is after he came within a
hair of paralyzing me last Jan.(We fell together at full gallop,and I'm
48 and a fairly new rider.)Now:several people have suggested I ride less
and do more groundwork -I've only just begun to do any-in the apparent
belief that a more dominant "herd position" is what I need with him. But
he is submissive as hell on the ground now,and follows me around,etc.And
there is no question that he knows what I want when he disobeys under
saddle. So,why should groundwork exercises& rituals carry over to,and
help me in,riding situations? I believe he has simply learned that there
is nothing I can do in that situation but hang on.I'd like to see
somebody one-rein him or turn him in that situation-I don't think there
are many riders who could.Besides,it almost always occurs in the middle
of a group of horses.I'm reading Pat Parelli's "Natural
Horsemanship"-with several grains of salt-and would like to hear
suggestions on other sources of groundwork information-if groundwork
really is the answer. It's safe,at least,and fun. Thanks, Ray O.
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: cherry sawdust
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty A Lambert)
Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 22:43:27 EST
Thanks to all of you who replied to my post about cherry sawdust. I've
forwarded all the info to Sara, so she should be firmly convinced by now
that it was a very bad idea & she won't try it.
Patty Lambert
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 19:48:22 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield)
Subject: Stirrup leathers rubbing shins
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I've never had this problem in English, Aussie or Western saddles. I
haven't, however, owned an 'endurance saddle'.
I ride with the ball of my foot on the stirrup tread most of the time, my
ankle cocked slightly inward and my foot slightly angled with the inside
toughing the insde branch and the outside of my foot close to or against
the outside branch. So the stirrup is not square to my foot though I
wriggle it around through the miles to change the stress on my ankle. My
foot is shoved firmly home when the going get rough or things get too
exciting.
I also use a pair of I think they are called Flex-Ride (plastic stirrups
with a cage or tapadero) on English leathers. The slot in the top of the
stirrup is too narrow for the leather so it is never centered properly -the
leather slides along the top bar. I do put the right stirrup on the
off-side and left where it belongs according to the ridiculously small dot
on each stirrup.
Not having the leather properly centred does not cause me any shin
problems, either. (The only problem I've had has been the darn plastic
cages break with the cold at anything colder than about -10 or -15 Celsius
-I wasn't impressed and have had to have leather ones put on.)
Is rubbed shins something occuring only with the various endurance saddles?
Does it come from foot position on the stirrup tread -ball of foot, foot
home, toe in, toe out? Is it because endurance saddles have their stirrups
hung back further therefore one's knee may protrude further forward
(depending on stirrup length) and the shins rub?
I'm working up to buying an endurance saddle and don't want to buy a
problem I haven't so far had. If this is a problem common to endurance
saddles in general it needs to be addressed by the makers, or specifically
the makers of the problematic brands/types.
Ann
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 22:11:11 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: re:poinsettias
In-Reply-To: <199801031456.JAA18185@eureka.vermontel.com>
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I'm a newspaper reporter and our paper recently got a news release from the
state extension service that it is a myth about poinsettias being poisonous
to dogs, cats and people. The release didnt' mention horses. It's probably
better to be safe than sorry!
chris paus & the starman (trying to find a dry place. thanks el nino)
At 09:56 AM 1/3/98 -500, you wrote:
>I was concerned about poinsettias in the house at Christmas. I
>called the Dartmouth poison center and they assured me that my
>cat/dog would have to eat the entire plant to even show any illness.
>Now, in the case of a horse and a large poinsettia tree????
>John and Sue Greenall
>mailto:greenall@vermontel.com
>
>
icoks.net>
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 22:14:03 -0600
To: Cathy_Foster@bc.sympatico.ca
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Hazards on endurance rides related to horse size
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34AE705C.5E8C@bc.sympatico.ca>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980101172139.3824B-100000@consider.theneteffect.com>
<3.0.1.32.19980101205347.00b2ba9c@mail.micoks.net>
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Cathy,
My best training buddy has decided that Star is one of those horses who
lets you know when something is out of order in the universe --as in "who
put that rock over there." "that log doesn't belong in a field." "there is
a horse-eating deer in the woods a mile away adn I can see him."
Maybe yours is one of these prophets, too.
chris
At 09:07 AM 1/3/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Chris Paus wrote:
>>
>> Tracy,
>>
>> My tall, leggy Arab also hops sideways. And he is 10. But his better trick
>> is coming to a complete halt in mid stride when he sees something scary
>> that I don't see. Other riders get worried looks on their faces when I go
>> flying over Star's head. But Star just stands there waiting for me to get
>> back on and away we go.
>>
>> He may have long legs, but he is agile and quick as a cat.
>>
>> But he IS getting better about the whole thing. One of my training buddies
>> commented that she hasn't seen him shy for a long time.
>>
>> chris paus & star
>>
>> At 05:40 PM 1/1/98 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
>> >> with 2 TB mares whose riders kept exclaiming over how "sure-footed"
Lakota
>> >> is, how he zigged and zagged around the trees, fallen logs, over
streams,
>> >
>> >When my husband is riding behind me he often comments that Pro just
>> >lengthens or shortens his stride to miss rocks or holes in the trail.
>> >
>> >When he was riding the old (and half blind) Quarter mare, they would hit
>> >every single thing in the trail...maybe she was going by feel!
>> >
>> >The tall arab seems to do pretty well missing things too, what you have
>> >to watch for with him is the unexpected leaps 6 feet to the
>> >side....he's coming 10 this year...dare I hope he'll ever mature?
>> >
>> >tracy
>> >
>> >
>
>It's funny you should say that I've got a 15.1 hand Arab and he is 11
>years old going on 12 this year and I would almost swear that our horses
>are related because mine will do the same thing--it doesn't matter the
>speed but if something looks like it's going to eat him he stops/spins
>to go the other way; I fly over the head and then he stops and waits for
>me to try that again.... I wonder if he will ever stop doing that--oh
>well that's life. I've owned him since he was 2 I must be a glutton for
>punishment.
>
>Cathy and Moses (hey Mom what's that up ahead, we should turn around
>right now and go the other way!)
>
>
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 20:30:34 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield)
Subject: Good endurance publication and other good info
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Through the Canadian Equestrian Federation I get lists of their modestly
priced and well researched information. Just purchsed "Focus on Endurance
from the Equine Research Centre".
It and other good info I would think would be available to other than
C.E.F. members. Try Equine Research Centre, University of Guelph, Guelph,
Ontario, Canada, N1G 2W1 Phone (519) 837-0061, Fax (519) 767-1081,
e-mail kcounsel@uoguelph.ca
Some topics covered: thermoregulation and electolyte management in the
endurance horse - Kerry Ridgway, Building Endurance through nutrtion-
Gayla pollack-Lipsom, vet checks, conditioning after layoff, heart rate
monitors, aerobic fitness and trained state in event horses and endurance
horses, etc.
Ann
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 23:52:19 -0800
From: Jerry & Susan Milam <jdmilam@fwb.gulf.net>
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To: Ann Hatfield <keithr@nocdc.bc.ca>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stirrup leathers rubbing shins
References: <3.0.32.19980103194748.0069ba40@nocdc.bc.ca>
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Ann,
I use flex-ride stirrups with a cage but don't have any problem with
either my 1" or 2" leathers on them. I used to have problems with the
leathers rubbing me before I started using half chaps or my show boots.
Susan
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 23:00:52 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Midwest rides
In-Reply-To: <B0000339592@mail.elknet.net>
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elaine -- Have you tried the Upper Midwest Endurance and Competitive Rides
Association. They have rides in Wisc, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota.
They have a web site. The last time I contacted them, they were putting
together their 1998 ride calendar. They are nice folks and will send you a
good handbook on training for distance riding as well ast heir calendar.
chris paus & star
P.s. for 15 years, I lived in Wisconsin - Holcombe, northeast of Eau
Claire...It was beautiful and there is much I miss about it, but I dont'
miss winter and I don't miss the mosquitoes and black flies -- neither do
the horses...
cheers from Kansas.
At 12:58 PM 1/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Is there any one out there that rides in the Midwest..? Would like
>information on trails and groups in the same. Thanks Elaine - Wisconsin
>
>
0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Midwest rides
In-Reply-To: <B0000339592@mail.elknet.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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elaine -- Have you tried the Upper Midwest Endurance and Competitive Rides
Association. They have rides in Wisc, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota.
They have a web site. The last time I contacted them, they were putting
together their 1998 ride calendar. They are nice folks and will send you a
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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 21:49:30 -0800
From: "Patrick E. Allen" <jfhr@inet1.inetworld.net>
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To: Lynne@Glazer.org
CC: twhowe@inetworld.net, ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Warner Springs Ride Full
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Hi Lynn, I don't know about the other vendors but I sure will be there with lots of warm riding wear and other great things too. It will be great to see
you again. Looking forward to the weekend. I have all my fingers crossed and am saying fervent prayers to the powers that be to hold off the rain until
later, much later. Evelyn Hartman
Just for horsin-round
"Ontra-manuer Extraordinaire"
Lynne Glazer wrote:
> >> After the awards dinner on Saturday, we’ll have a hosted bar at the pool with hot buttered rums, G & T’s; etc., as well as soft drinks and wine.<<
>
> How can you make a great ride any better? Whooooeee!
>
> Will the vendors be down at ridecamp or up at the lodge? Panting
> shoppers want to know...
>
> Lynne
> and Rem-member Me (who got enough water at Oak Springs, thanks)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:41:20 -0500
Subject: "lame horses"
Message-ID: <19980104.020113.12518.0.yerrick@juno.com>
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From: yerrick@juno.com (Beth A Yerrick)
I have seen many riders try to argue vets out of eliminating their very
lame, sore horses - not a pleasant sight or sound!
I am known as a wimp who will pull my horse in a second. I have learned
that Molly never ever lies. If she points her nose back to camp instead
of charging out - we're through!
The problem? Molly does have a gait aberration. She has a defect in her
left hip and sometimes swings her left leg in. She is under constant vet
supervision and vet ordered shoeing for this problem. Competitive riding
has only made her stronger and stronger. My vet says it's the best thing
for her condition. When I got her, she didn't know what a left lead was
and never took it. She was flat and flaccid on that side. Lessons, vet
supervision and distance riding have made remarkable changes!
Once in a while, a vet who doesn't know her will insist she is lame -
even though I fully announce the problem at the pre check. At one
particular ride, I even brought a note from my vet as the ride vets at
this particular ride always object to her entering at first and think I
am running a "lame" horse. The vet was not pleased, but she was very
professional and fair. The ride vets who have seen her most often have
seen major improvement and have patiently taught me the difference
between her hip problem and other "actual" lameness (which she has nevery
been at a ride).
If this means she is "always lame" I guess I can live with that in as
much as I know I am not running her sore or causing damage. I also only
respect the ride vets all they do over and beyond for our horses. So
what can those of us do if we happen to have a horse with aberrations?
Should there be a specific filing form on the condition filled out by our
vets? Has anyone else faced this?
Beth and Miss Molly Hot to Trot (Lame? Huh! Just get out of the way and
let me do my thing!!)
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <906c37ab.34afa875@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:19:15 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Midwest rides
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In a message dated 98-01-04 00:13:55 EST, you write:
<< To: ridecamp@endurance.net
elaine -- Have you tried the Upper Midwest Endurance and Competitive Rides
Association. They have rides in Wisc, Michigan, Illinois, Minnesota.
They have a web site. The last time I contacted them, they were putting
together their 1998 ride calendar. They are nice folks and will send you a
good handbook on training for distance riding as well ast heir calendar.
chris paus & star
P.s. for 15 years, I lived in Wisconsin - Holcombe, northeast of Eau
Claire...It was beautiful and there is much I miss about it, but I dont'
miss winter and I don't miss the mosquitoes and black flies -- neither do
the horses...
cheers from Kansas.
At 12:58 PM 1/3/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Is there any one out there that rides in the Midwest..? Would like
>information on trails and groups in the same. Thanks Elaine - Wisconsin
>
>
UMECRA has their annual convention and banquet next weekend (January 9-11) in
Northern Indiana near Chicago. It is fun, entertaining and a good time for
all. They are fun and good folks to be with and their mini-convention is well
worth attending. They have a welcome party Friday night. Saturday schedule is
as follows: 7 AM Board meeting, 9AM Vet Speaker (Dr. Dave Heinze-lameness in
the performance horse), 11AM, Equine dentist speaker(Dave Balzak), 1:30 PM
Annual meeting, 6 PM cocktails, 7 PM dinner and year-end awards. For
reservations, directions and information contact: Radisson Hotel at Star
Plaza, Merriville, IN 1-800-333-3333 (Nat'l hotline) or local Hotel #
219-769-6311.
Teddy (further correspondence contact Louise Reidel (LReidel769@aol.com)
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2e343ff4.34afa871@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:19:11 EST
To: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stirrup leathers rubbing shins
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In a message dated 98-01-03 23:08:44 EST, you write:
<<
I'm working up to buying an endurance saddle and don't want to buy a
problem I haven't so far had. If this is a problem common to endurance
saddles in general it needs to be addressed by the makers, or specifically
the makers of the problematic brands/types.
Ann
>>
The problem is a common one and NOT related to the saddle itself, but rather
the manner in which the rider holds and uses his/her legs. One solution (other
than taking a tremendous amount of time to evaluate riding style, length of
stiuurp, time in the saddle, hang of the stirrups, etc.) is an adaptor that
attached to the bottom of the stirrup strap and then to the stirrup enabling
the stirrup to hang perdendicular to the body for the horse, thus eliminating
the twist created by normally hung stirrup straps when the rider is mounted.
Unfortunately, although I somewhere saw an ad about this "adaptor", I have no
idea as to what it is called or where to obtain one. Another solutionm is
simply to wrap the stirrup straps.
I believe the chief cause of this rubbing is the fact that ove rlong distance,
riders do not maintain a constant leg or foot position. I NEVER had these
problems when I rode hunter/jumper, dressage or jumped. They developed as
soon as I decided to ride long distances.
For an unevaluated reason, this problem corrected itself in time. Perhaps my
body, in self-defense, learned to reposition itself to avoid the pain.
As a supplier and manufacturer of disnatce riding equipment, I am VERY
interested in helping out my fellow riders. Further input more than welcome.
Teddy Lancaster
Running Bear Farm, Inc..
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From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Woolback pad with inserts
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:48:35 -0500
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VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
I am looking for a used Woolback pad (western cut or Big Horn cut) with the
inserts. Does anyone have one for sale?
Paula
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From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: protein spilling
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 10:49:46 -0500
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Someone told me (reliable???) that when a horse's urine is orangey that it
means they are spilling protein. Anyone else heard this?
Paula
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:33:23 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ann Hatfield <keithr@nocdc.bc.ca>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stirrup leathers rubbing shins
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980103194748.0069ba40@nocdc.bc.ca>
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> I've never had this problem in English, Aussie or Western saddles. I
> haven't, however, owned an 'endurance saddle'.
I've had that problem in English and Aussie saddles. :) It can be caused
by a wide variety of things -- foot position, stirrup style, stirrup
position, the type of boots & pants you're wearing, etc. I would suggest
placing rubber washers on the top bar of the stirrup to snug in the
leather and keep it from sliding around (you can split one side of the
washer with a knife to slide it on, and it will still stay in place if
you fill the empty space sufficiently to snug it all in). Also, make or
buy some fleece tubes to slide over the stirrup leathers for cushioning
-- that's what solved the problem for me. You might try the Thorlo socks
Susan was talking about, that have cushioning along the shin.
Glenda & Lakota
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:47:12 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Dave or Corry Clinton <ddc@Rt66.com>
Subject: Sharing Hotel Room at the Convention
We are posting this for a friend of ours. She has reservations for the
Convention at the Hyatt from Jan. 22 till Jan. 25 and is looking for
someone to share the room and the hotel costs. Anyone interested, call
Suzanne at 915- 587-6426.
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b867d605.34afbf93@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:57:52 EST
To: yerrick@Juno.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: "lame horses"
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Hi, Beth & Ride campers--
The problem of gait anomaly vs. lameness is an old one. Veterinarians have
different opinions as to the acceptability of gait anolalies; some do not
think that any gait anomaly is acceptable, while others believe (as I do) that
with judicious riding, the horse may well benefit from demanding use. Those
who believe that NO gait anomaly is acceptable make the point that horses with
anomalies put undue stress on other legs, which is a valid concern. However,
I have seen many horses develop and considerably improve or work out of their
anomalies altogether, and in that case, our sport has been truly beneficial.
It is all a judgment call on the part of the veterinarian--inasmuch as we are
all human and this is really a gray area, there is bound to be a difference of
opinion. It also takes a practiced eye to differentiate between an anomaly
and a lameness, and sometimes it still isn't possible without considerable
diagnostic work-up. There is also a matter of degree--anomalies can be so
severe that endurance riding is out of the question.
I prefer to give horses with anomalies the benefit of the doubt and allow them
to start; however, I do caution riders that I will be watching them like a
hawk, and will not hesitate to pull them if I feel that the horse is becoming
sore in any way. It is also preferable if all of the ride veterinarians can
be called together to observe these horses on vet-in, so that they know
exactly what the horse looks like and can monitor it accordingly. If this is
not possible, it behooves the examining veterinarian to make clear notes on
the vet card so that others understand what is going on and take a close look.
I also feel strongly that dressage is a "must" in the training program of
these horses; it goes hand in hand with conditioning to correct or minimize
anomalies.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:36:26 -0800
To: yerrick@juno.com (Beth A Yerrick), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jane Sheppard <jane@deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: "lame horses"
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Meggie has an unusual hula movement at the walk and trot. It's not real
wierd but I always point it out to the vets at check in. At a couple of
rides they thought she was starting to get tight in the backend at the
lunch stop. After awhile the same vets who see you ride after ride will
recognize the familiar movements of your horse. Jane
Visit The Tevis Pony Web Page: http://users.deltanet.com/~jane
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 09:32:51 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: Re: "lame horses"
Cc: yerrick@juno.com (Beth A Yerrick)
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>Should there be a specific filing form on the condition filled out by our
>vets? Has anyone else faced this?
Hi Beth:
I have a horse that has a bit of a defect also. He has some scar tissue in
his front shoulder, which causes him to walk with about a -15% range of
motion in the right fore. He has learned to compensate at a trot, and
trots completely sound. So far, he has completed 14 rides, and the vets
have never once noticed that he's off at a walk. I haven't ever top
tenned, but if we were to have to trot out in a full circle he would
probably appear to be a little off in one direction.
We've taken lessons to specifically work on this problem, and I am hoping
(when the snow melts and the mud dries!) to continue the arena work this
winter. For now, I can ride this horse 50 miles and he isn't sore, but if
I work him for too long on one lead in a circle, he will be sore. He is
getting much better, but it's going to take a long, long time.
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Weaver, 1230 miles
& Rocky, 350 miles + 7 LD's
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:40:50 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801041940.LAA20157@fsr.com>
Subject: Saddles for Sale
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Dee Fortner
Email: wfortner@peop.tds.net
Posting for a friend. 2 saddles for sale.
Circle Y Balanced Ride, 15", dark brown, $550.00
Syd Hill Australian, 17", no horn. Comes with breast plate, 2 blankets
and 2 girths (one leather) $650.00
Saddles are located in NW Georgia. Please Contact Shorty at
(706)235-2603.
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 11:42:13 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: rstai@flash.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Fino
References: <199801040102.RAA00588@fsr.com>
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guest@endurance.net wrote:
>
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
> You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>
> From: Debby
> Email: rstai@flash.net
>
> What about a Paso Fino for endurance, I've read some about Foxtrotters but not seen much about Paso's and how they could be trained to do endurance.
I've only seen one Paso trying a ride and although he was a wonderful
horse, he did not do well. The owner had had trouble keeping him sound
(he had very fine legs) and although those legs were practically a blur
going down the trail, and he certainly was smooth, the movement just
didn't seem very efficient. He also had trouble dealing with the heat.
However, this was just ONE horse, so maybe others are more successful.
Susan Garlinghouse
ozilla 3.0C-WorldNet (Win95; I)
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To: rstai@flash.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Fino
References: <199801040102.RAA00588@fsr.com>
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guest@endurance.net wrote:
>
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
> You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>
> From: Debby
> Email: rstai@flash.n5139 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002442 06453770667 0013131 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (qmailr@pop1.cyberhighway.net [205.139.62.192]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA23028 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:31:46 -0800 (PST)
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From: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
To: "'suendavid@worldnet.att.net'" <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Paso Fino
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:30:59 -0700
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Hi Debbie:
I have trail ridden with several Paso's. Of the varieties, the Fino's I =
have seen don't do very well on the trail. As Susan said, their feet =
move in a blur, but they don't go anywhere. The other types seem to do a =
lot better, as their gait's are more directed to forward movement. A lot =
of it would depend on the individual horse and it's conditioning.
Bruce
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 14:51:24 -0600
To: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Dropping the head.
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Ray,
Several things could be going on here, but the best way to overcome the
problem is to take the horse back to the point at which he gets the right
answer every time. If that is doing groundwork, then start there. If it is
walking in circles, then start there. build from the point where he knows
the answer.
Second, try the 4-second rule. If your horse freaks out over something in 4
seconds, do that thing ofr 3 seconds, stop and give him a pet or treat.
Eventually, you can increase the time you do the thing that makes him react
and get less and less reaction.
You need to determine if there is a physical problem or a communication
problem. My horse will do a half rear when I've given him too many signals
or he's confused about what I've asked him to do. It doesn't happen often.
I used to think he was being naughty, but now I know, he's telling me in
the only language he knows (horse) that he just didn't understand or
doesn't have the confidence to do the task.
It means I have to go back to what he does know and work from there. It
works great.
Perhaps you should take yourself and the horse to a trainer or work with
someone whose riding skill you trust, and get evaluated. Maybe that person
will see that you hold your hands wrong, give a signal with your leg that
you don't even realize you are doing, etc. Once you correct the problem,
you and horse should be able to get along better. communication adn
consistency are the keys.
Remember, every time you pick up the reins, it is like picking up the
telephone to call your horse.
The other possibility is that there is a personality mismatch. I've had
horses all my life (I'm 46) and have found a way to get along with every
horse, except one. And he almost killed me last year and certainly put a
big dent in my confidence as a rider. I sold him. I had to take myself and
my new horse to a trainer for a while to build our confidence. The crazy
appy went down the road to a horse dealer, who said he rode him just fine
and couldn't figure out why I had so much trouble with him. I think maybe
that horse just didn't like women. My present horse gets nervous around men.
HOpe these ideas help.
chris paus & star
At 09:44 PM 1/3/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Folks,please give me some opinions re my recent post about head
>dropping to evade rating. I need all the help I can get. Wisdom & caution
>say to replace this horse,but if you saw him or rode him you'd see why I
>can't bring myself to part with him,and this is after he came within a
>hair of paralyzing me last Jan.(We fell together at full gallop,and I'm
>48 and a fairly new rider.)Now:several people have suggested I ride less
>and do more groundwork -I've only just begun to do any-in the apparent
>belief that a more dominant "herd position" is what I need with him. But
>he is submissive as hell on the ground now,and follows me around,etc.And
> there is no question that he knows what I want when he disobeys under
>saddle. So,why should groundwork exercises& rituals carry over to,and
>help me in,riding situations? I believe he has simply learned that there
>is nothing I can do in that situation but hang on.I'd like to see
>somebody one-rein him or turn him in that situation-I don't think there
>are many riders who could.Besides,it almost always occurs in the middle
>of a group of horses.I'm reading Pat Parelli's "Natural
>Horsemanship"-with several grains of salt-and would like to hear
>suggestions on other sources of groundwork information-if groundwork
>really is the answer. It's safe,at least,and fun. Thanks, Ray O.
>
>
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From: "Suzanne J. Griffin" <FIT-TO-RUB@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: HELP!
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:13:42 -0800
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Hi everyone. I need your help in getting some information about endurance
riding or contacts in the following areas:
New London Connecticut
Yorktown Virginia
Portland Maine
Port Huron Michigan
Burlington Vermont
New Orleans Louisiana
I have just got engaged to someone in Coast Guard and he (we) is/are going
to be relocating possibly to some of these locations in June. If anyone
out there knows about these areas as far as trails, boarding, and endurance
rides/riders/contacts goes, please email me privately.
Thanks!
Susie (& James)
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:54:49 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801042154.NAA25585@fsr.com>
Subject: Osceola 100 Endurance Ride
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From: Janet Beagle
Email: saddleup@nefcom.net
Hi, I am the manager of the Osceola 100 Endurance Ride, being held on Jan. 10, 1998.
As of 1 week prior to the ride the water level is looking really good. That is not saying there is no water, it is just not at unrideble levels.
I have been on the wettest trail I have and did it with no problem on a 14 hand quarter horse.
I also have a friend taking a shetland pony on those very same trails, and is also competing in the 25 along with 2 jr. riders both riding shetlands.
I would also like to ask anyone that would like to come help at the ride please contact me. So far it looks like it is going to be an exciting ride..........
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9cf6bc25.34b00624@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:58:58 EST
To: rstai@flash.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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Hi, Debby--
I would have to concur with Susan Garlinghouse that Paso Finos do not seem to
be ideal endurance horses. We have had half a dozen or so compete here in the
NW at rides that I have vetted, and although they have completed for the most
part, most have been about at the end of their rope, so to speak, after
limited distance rides. Their recoveries were sufficient but nothing to write
home about. I would have to concur, also, that their gaits are smooth and
comfortable to the rider, but not especially efficient for covering terrain
over long distances. I saw one exception to this at a ride in northern Idaho,
where a lady had a Paso that neither looked nor moved like a Paso, and did
reasonably well. This is not meant to discourage you from riding your Paso on
endurance rides, as almost all horses benefit from distance conditioning and
can be gotten to a level sufficient for completion--if it is your goal to
complete rides on Pasos, by all means go for it. But if your goal is to
advance as an endurance rider, I would advise picking another breed.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 14:11:16 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801042211.OAA26967@fsr.com>
Subject: saddles & trailers
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Beth
Email: jeb@sedona.net
I would greatly appreciate any really strong feelings (pro or con) regarding the following saddles: Syngerist, Saare, Boz, Marciante, Steele, other.
Also, on alum. trailers: 4 Star, Elite, Sooner, Alum-line, Jamco, Sundowner, other.
Please e mail me so the replies don't tie up the ride-camp. Thanks very much. Beth
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:27:00 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
cc: rstai@flash.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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I first began riding on a "pleasure" class Paso Fino (which means she's
not very "fino" as "pleasure" is the bottom class and "fino" is top
class), and I'm friends with a few Paso Fino breeders, attended nationals
last year, so I'm pretty familiar with the breed (though not an expert by
a longshot), and I would not recommend Pasos for endurance. The ones that
I know, while certainly forward-moving and fun to ride, tend to be a
little too high-strung for long distance work -- they just get so excited
they lather up right away, even when worked every day of the week. They
wear themselves out before they've gone very far! They are bred to have
that temperament ("brio"). They are very good trail horses in that they
are very willing to go forward, over just about anything. However, they
also tend to be less sure-footed, I think. Cosqui, at least, with her
head up and legs just a-pumping, manages to put her tiny little feet in
every hole and trip over every tree root on the trail. :)
However, I've seen two PF not far from here who do competitive trail,
and the slower pace seems to work better for them. They're also pretty
calm for PFs, so I guess you just need to find the right one, if you
really want to try it.
Glenda & Lakota (don't talk about my pasturemate that way--she's awful
pretty!)
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:41:29 -0800
Subject: Endurance blankets
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
How does one wash an endurances horse's blanket? I want to waterproof it
and it's filthy.
Kris
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To: rayo@cfw.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 15:27:19 -0800
Subject: Re: Dangerous Trails
Message-ID: <19980104.154135.4510.6.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
On Sat, 03 Jan 1998 07:35:01 -0800 "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
writes:
>"Only dangerous when the horses get backed up on the trail...."
>Isn't that sometimes inevitable?
As I posted privately, yes it's sometimes inevitable, but it's not alway
dangerous.
Kris
>
>
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To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
Cc: krisolko@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 09:49:35 -0800
Subject: Re: Rice bran
Message-ID: <19980104.154135.4510.1.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Jerry,
>Kris, Try adding about 1/4 cup of molasses olong with the rice bran,
>and
>your other grain, all mixed together. A little corn oil on tio of all
>that
>may help.
I use A&M ( alfalfa and molasses) as part of my mixture. This, 3 scoops,
goes with 2 scoops
of grain and 2 cups of oil. Should I add in more grain (oats, corn,
barley, 606)?
Kris
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>, <rstai@flash.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Paso Fino
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:01:30 -0800
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Sounds like the horse was doing the fino fino (classic fino). Many of the
show horses are trained to do this to the exclusion of other gaits. If the
horse does a good paso corto or paso largo, that won't be a problem. I have
trail ridden with a couple of paso finos that do well. I also looked at
purchasing one that had a great fino fino gait. Needless to say I didn't buy
it - it needs to kept in the show ring.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
>guest@endurance.net wrote:
>>
>> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
>> You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>>
>> From: Debby
>> Email: rstai@flash.net
>>
>> What about a Paso Fino for endurance, I've read some about Foxtrotters
but not seen much about Paso's and how they could be trained to do
endurance.
>
>
>I've only seen one Paso trying a ride and although he was a wonderful
>horse, he did not do well. The owner had had trouble keeping him sound
>(he had very fine legs) and although those legs were practically a blur
>going down the trail, and he certainly was smooth, the movement just
>didn't seem very efficient. He also had trouble dealing with the heat.
>However, this was just ONE horse, so maybe others are more successful.
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
>
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:15:46 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: Kristen L Olko <krisolko@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Endurance blankets
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Kristen L Olko wrote:
>
> How does one wash an endurances horse's blanket? I want to waterproof it
> and it's filthy.
Kris-
We wash them the same way as any other horse's blanket :)
We lay them out on the driveway, dribble soapy water (1 scoop
non-scented laundry detergent in 5 gal). We brush it in with an old,
clean broom (short stubby bristles), flip & repeat on other side. We
then hang a rod/board/pole between the 2 doors of the trailer and hose
it off well.
There was an excellent thread at the beginning of fall re waterproofing
blankets. I'd check the archives for the info. We use 1000 denier
cordura blankets (amish made in PA) that have never leaked & have never
needed any further waterproofing - I wouldn't give them up for the
world.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:48:23 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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My wife, Kathy's. first horse was a 14 hand Paso. Gus was a great little
guy that was all heart. She did many LD rides on him and he in fact
usually do about a 3 hour 25 - if not in the top ten he was always close.
Little Gus really loved the rides. When he did these rides he would trot
and gallop - to excited to do his "gait".
He did a 50 or two, but the limit was his size, compared to the rider, not
his breed. Little Gus got hit by lightening three years ago. A big lose
of a great little horse.
Truman
, 4 Jan 1998 19:49:13 -0500
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Heidi Smith said:
We have had half a dozen or so compete here in the
NW at rides that I have vetted, and although they have completed for the
most
part, most have been about at the end of their rope, so to speak, after
limited distance rides. Their recoveries were sufficient but nothing to
write
home about. I would have to concur, also, that their gaits are smooth
and
comfortable to the rider, but not especially efficient for covering
terrain
over long distances. I saw one exception to this at a ride in northern
Idaho,
where a lady had a Paso that neither looked nor moved like a Paso, and
did
reasonably well. This is not meant to discourage you from riding your
Paso on
endurance rides, as almost all horses benefit from distance conditioning
and
can be gotten to a level sufficient for completion--if it is your goal
to
complete rides on Pasos, by all means go for it. But if your goal is to
advance as an endurance rider, I would advise picking another breed.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
Excuse me, on *six* horses, you make these kinds of conclusions? I
doubt that there's enough of a database of this breed in your experience
to make any kind of accurate judgments and at the very least it isn't
very scientific! Too many variables left unconsidered here,
(conditioning for one) plus a few personal prejudices injected. Is the
walk an "especially efficient gait for covering terrain over long
distances?" If this is true, then a Paso Fino's medium and fast gaits
(Corto and Largo) certainly are, since the footfall is the very same as
a walk...a four beat even gait. It seems to me you are making statements
about a whole breed based on what you perceived in a half dozen horses.
Anyone could do the same about any other breed and come out with the
same results if they were in the mood to bash a particular breed of
horse. Susan emphasized ONE Paso she didn't consider adequate for
endurance work...she didn't condemn the whole range of horses in the
Paso Fino breed! Your post was simply an opinion, not fact!
Lynn-Marie Kara &
"Mama Marucha"
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:05:34 -0600 (CST)
To: karakat@SpiritOne.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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Ms Lynn Marie, I didn't see Dr. Smith stating her observations as fact..
Seemed to me to be just observations. But if you want some facts try this.
In 23 years of endurance riding I've seen but one Paso Fino have at the
game. He was a game little guy, but alas, he couldn"t cut the mustard.
Placed dead last. They do really show well. Nice lookin horses. But
again, the record stands for itself. If you want to run get an Arab or an
arab cross. Jerry Fruth..Hickory Ridge....Standing JABASK KNIGHT
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:10:40 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: waterproof Amish blankets
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:09:14 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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Jerry Fruth wrote:
>
> Linda, This is the second time I've heard about the amish blankets. I know
> you won't give yours up so how about an address, name or what ever
I buy them through endurance rider Mary Coleman of Cassville, PA. The
blankets are made on the narrow side for the Amish standardbreds. I've
found that my Arabs need a size 2" bigger than normal. They are a light
blanket with a synthetic "wool" lining under the 1000 denier cordura.
Last I heard they wer $65-75 plus shipping.
You can contact Mary Coleman at (814) 448-2821.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
with warm, dry, cozy horses!
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <34e17835.34b03971@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:37:49 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Respiratory rate and thumps
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I would like to get opinions, especially from vets, about respiratory rate
and thumps. I have a seven year old Arabian gelding who has had a moderate
amount of conditioning. He has done 650 miles of endurance, mostly multidays.
He has a very high respiratory rate. He seems to breathe shallow and starts
to breathe rapidly as soon as he starts any work. His pulse rate is
comparable to other Arab endurance horses and his pulse recovery is good. His
respiratory recovery takes longer than his pulse recovery.
He has thumped three times in training; all three times after going moderately
hard uphill for a fairly long distance. He did not go hard enough or long
enough to be exhausted or to have lost significant amount of electrolytes
through sweating.
I think that possibly the thumping in this case is caused by hyperventilation.
Can thumps be caused by a respiratory alkalosis and a problem with the
distribution of calcium rather than an actual calcium deficiency?
Does anyone have any suffestions for training to improve respiratory rate and
depth of respiration?
Thank you,
Debby Lyon
humps. I have a seven year old Arabian gelding who has had a moderate
amount of conditioning. He has done 650 miles of endurance, mostly multidays.
He has a very high respiratory rate. He seems to breathe shallow and starts
to breathe rapidly as soon as he starts any work. His pulse rate is
comparable to other Arab endurance horses and his pulse recovery is good. His
respiratory recovery takes longer than his pulse recovery.
He has 5156 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002004 06454036512 0013103 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from micoks.net (onramp.micoks.net [209.153.98.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA05030 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 17:54:14 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:53:09 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: rides in Arkansas
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I have a non-horsey spouse who said he might accompany me on a ride and be
my cheering squad if we went to a ride in Arkansas. He went to college
there and it would give him an excuse to go back to visit.
anyone know of CTR or endurance rides in Ark this coming season?
chris paus & star, who stands with icicles in his mane right now.
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dc207d34.34b03f79@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:03:35 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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Excuuuuuuuuuse, me, Lynn-Marie!!! At no point did I condemn Pasos as a breed
in my post to Ride camp. I stated the following FACTS: I have seen
approximately half a dozen; one has done well. After vetting approximately
250 rides and somewhere between 10,000 and 12,000 entries, I think I am
qualified to evaluate individual horses to that extent. Whatever conclusions
you draw about the breed based on those statements are your own. I personally
would not seek one out if I wanted a contender for the World Games, but then I
wouldn't pick a Quarter Horse, either, and I have seen some pretty decent ones
on the circuit from time to time. As I stated, if completing rides on a Paso
is your goal, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I see a lot of
people do just that on Foxtrotters, Tennessee Walkers, you-name-it--most are
not "competitive" but they have a good time. Not a thing wrong with that. I
don't try to beat the QH's at 440 yards on my Arabs, either--doesn't mean I
don't enjoy a good sprint every now and again. All breeds have things they
are "best" at--it isn't an insult to any breed at all to not be the "chosen"
at something that is another breed's forte. I continue to be supportive of
all the non-Arabs that compete, and always will be, but I would be less than
honest not to express my observations as I see them.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:08:22 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Subject: How about Peruvians?
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All the talk about Paso Finos got me wondering if there were any
Peruvian Pasos being used in endurance?
I would think the outward swing of the front legs (termino????) would be
a distinct disadvantage.
tracy
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 98 18:14:49 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Kimberly's ride
REPLY TO 01/03/98 16:42 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Kimberly's ride
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 16:18:52 -0800
I have only good things to say about Lari's Orlov/Arab
cross horses. Heart, speed, substance - they are wonderful.
Steph
>>>>> "Lari" == Lari Shea <larishea@www.horse-vacation.com> writes:
> "Nature's Sungari" (brother of Steph's Nature's Quicksilver and
> Nature's Khruschev) wanted me to tell folks that he was the
> horse who took Kimberly for that gallop on the beach the other
> day. And he blushingly reveals he was the first leased horse,
> placing 18th, not 47th, at the Pan Am Championship 100 miler,
> with Ariel Adjiman, from Brazil.
> Lari
-----------
Was there some story about Kimberly's ride I missed? Kimberly,
share your story!
Also, if Lari is keeping up with this, maybe you can give me some
info. My daughter and I dropped in to Lari's ranch last fall to
share our Rhodesian Ridgebacks and meet hers. Lari was not there,
but Fuchsia said we could go back and look at the horses, my
daughter wanted to see an Akhal Teke.
What caught my eye, being partial to greys were two absolutely
gorgeous BIG greys, a gelding and mare, that I am guessing were
Orlav/Arab crosses. They were wonderfully put together, with long
sloping shoulders, and I think over 15.2 hands. They were in with
the bay Akhal Teke mare, in the back. Lari, do you know which two
of your horses that sounds like?
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 18:00:36 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
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Lynn-Marie
>>But if your goal is to
advance as an endurance rider, I would advise picking another breed.<<
That's what Heidi said, in answer to someone who *asked* for ridecamper
opinions, IOW she thinks Pasos aren't for highly competitive riders with
national or international aspirations.
>>Excuse me, on *six* horses, you make these kinds of conclusions? I doubt that there's enough of a database of this breed in your experience to make any kind of accurate judgments and at the very least it isn't very scientific! Too many variables left unconsidered here, (conditioning for one) plus a few personal prejudices injected. <<
She is entitled to her own opinion, and *that* is what we post here--our
opinions! She didn't "flame" the Paso breeds!
I have TWH and Arabs. For instance, it is my opinion after 11 years
with TWH that *most* with proper preparation will rarely top ten 50 or
greater mileage rides, but always complete. There are exceptions, but
they are rarities. And they mostly aren't gaiting their way, but are
cantering and galloping, unless they're going for completion, a basic
goal in our sport, which Heidi acknowledged.
I also think most Pasos, with proper conditioning, could also complete.
I don't think they are usually capable of competing for top ten finishes
against Arabians/crosses, particularly on flat rides. Check the mph
that winning horses average. Your Pasos, TWHs whatever would have to
gallop most of the way to be competitive.
With messages like yours, it discourages people from posting their own
EXPERIENCES or opinion. Most of us aren't presenting the latter as
scientific studies of any sort, just what we have experienced along the
trail.
Lynne
and Rem-member Me
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:21:04 -0800
To: hikryrdg@evansville.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: lkinsky@silcom.com (Lynn Kinsky)
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
>Ms Lynn Marie, I didn't see Dr. Smith stating her observations as fact..
>Seemed to me to be just observations. But if you want some facts try this.
>In 23 years of endurance riding I've seen but one Paso Fino have at the
>game. He was a game little guy, but alas, he couldn"t cut the mustard.
>Placed dead last. They do really show well. Nice lookin horses. But
>again, the record stands for itself. If you want to run get an Arab or an
>arab cross. Jerry Fruth..Hickory Ridge....Standing JABASK KNIGHT
On the other hand, there is already one Peruvian Paso stallion in the EHRA
(650 miles of AERC 50's before his new owner retired him to stud) -- he
took 10th at Castle Rock (?) a few years ago, and another PP stallion that
was also competing took 7th. I think he has a BC to his credit as well.
Sue Riegel and I just took two of his offspring on their first LD, and they
finished sound, with excellent recoveries, despite my not being able to
much conditioning on them. I'm hoping to get them in the EHRA this year.
I agree that if you want to race, an Arab gives you the best chance -- they
*are* fast. But I really like to see the trail and the scenery, and my
arthritic back precludes riding a trotting horse, so I have the more modest
goal of finishing middle of the pack with a sound horse, and doing it many
times on that same horse. I've already taken one Peruvian to 1700 miles in
NATRC (and lesser amounts on some others because they are also my breeding
mares), and I have every confidence that many PPs (and PFs) can travel with
the pack in endurance.
-- Lynn K. (Santa Ynez, CA)
http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:27:15 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Lynne@Glazer.org
cc: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
In-Reply-To: <34B03EBF.17A9@cyberg8t.com>
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> With messages like yours, it discourages people from posting their own
> EXPERIENCES or opinion. Most of us aren't presenting the latter as
> scientific studies of any sort, just what we have experienced along the
> trail.
Well said! Heaven forbid that opinions should be prohibited on this
list! What boring reading that would be. :)
Glenda & Lakota (opinions, oh boy, do we have those!)
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:06:57 -0800
To: zebella@idt.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: lkinsky@silcom.com (Lynn Kinsky)
Subject: Re: How about Peruvians?
>All the talk about Paso Finos got me wondering if there were any
>Peruvian Pasos being used in endurance?
>
>I would think the outward swing of the front legs (termino????) would be
>a distinct disadvantage.
>
>tracy
A low, modest termino, that comes from a fluid and flexible shoulder does
not appear to require extra energy or to be a disadvantage, except
sometimes on a very grooved trail, where their feet might bang the sides. I
breed for, and select my trail horses for, the low, minimal termino.
The very flashy high lift and extreme termino that one sees on many of the
show horses does, IMO, require extra energy and *is* detrimental to advance
and efficient movement down the trail -- and such horses, in my experience,
aren't as smooth as those with more modest action. What is considered
desirable by show ring standards -- and touted to the public as the ideal
-- is not always what makes an efficient and effective saddle and distance
horse (or is even true to the original usage and standards for the horse).
I think all of our breeds have this problem . . .
-- Lynn K. (Santa Ynez, CA)
http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky
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Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:22:52 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: How about Peruvians?
In-Reply-To: <34B04096.429F@idt.net>
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On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Zebella wrote:
> All the talk about Paso Finos got me wondering if there were any
> Peruvian Pasos being used in endurance?
There were (at least) two Peruvian Pasos at the Death Valley Encounter. I
saw them in the LD ride on the first day.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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From: GypsyTashi <GypsyTashi@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ea0fd133.34b05162@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:19:50 EST
To: Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Saddle Wanted
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Woe is me! I am starting the Great Saddle search again. I am seeking a used
endurance saddle that will fit my 14.3 broad and short backed mare and me.
I need a center fired rigging to keep the grith as far back as possible since
this mare has the most tender skin. She has developed girth burns from her
elbow to the girth area in less than thirty miles. I have tried several
different griths with no success, so moving on to the saddle.
If you have any ideas or saddles you can e-mail me privately at
GypsyTashi@aol.com
Thanks - Barbara
ps OrthoFlex do not work for her, but great on my other mare.
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4b1f13a0.34b053b8@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:29:57 EST
To: lkinsky@silcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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Bravo, Lynn!
The sentiments you state echo those of many of my friends and fellow
competitors who ride other sorts of gaited horses. The wonderful thing about
this sport is that there are as many different goals on a given day as there
are riders entered in the ride. That is why I encouraged the original writer
who started this thread to make her choice of breed based on her goals. The
diversity makes for a more interesting day for me when I am the ride vet, too.
I had a very interesting time in October of 1996 when I was invited to vet a
ride in Germany. On that ride, I saw Friesans, Norwegian Fjord Horses, Orlov
Trotters, various and sundry Warmbloods, at least one Oldenburg cross, a
Knabstrupper, and various other breeds almost too numerous to mention. And
yes, there were even a few Arabs. It was one of the most fascinating
experiences of my life. Each rider was riding what he or she had, and was
trying to do the best for that horse on that given day. Isn't that what we're
all here for?
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Message-ID: <34B05528.E1DC6442@SpiritOne.com>
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:36:11 -0800
From: Lynn-Marie Kara & Luther Sturtevant <karakat@SpiritOne.com>
Reply-To: karakat@SpiritOne.com
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My how touchy! Jerry, Lynne & Heidi: I just reread my message and am
amazed at how up tight you became in response to it. All I did was
respond to Heidi, (who was offering her observations as a vet),
indicating that what she said *was* opinion and not based on clear
empirical evidence, as one might expect from a vet. There simply isn't
enough experience with Paso Finos doing endurance to make these kinds of
categorical statements.
And the question wasn't about doing international competitions; the
question was simply whether Paso Finos could be used for
endurance...which they can, and should be good for endurance with
experience and conditioning...as with some other breeds. What I was
objecting to was the absolutist character of Heidi's statements, as well
as the condescending reference to "if it is your goal
to complete rides on Pasos, by all means go for it. But if your goal is
to advance as an endurance rider..." as if "advance" only meant being
number one in the world.
Finally, Jerry says: "With messages like yours, it discourages people
from posting their own
EXPERIENCES or opinion." Friends, this is my first post in *many*
months; if my rejoinder regarding Heidi's opinion is going to cause
people to refrain from posting, I am very sorry. But I guess it means
that dialogue and discussion isn't what is wanted, just individually
stated opinions without any disagreements.
Lynn-Marie & "Mama Marucha"
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From: REBELCJB <REBELCJB@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7ddfa48e.34b06605@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:48:02 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, lkinsky@silcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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There are individuals in all breeds that excel in just about all different
kinds of events. But, if research is done by the person wanting the
information, they will find that in endurance riding Arabians excel the most.
In CTR, there is a mixture of breeds in the top placings but, there again, the
majority is Arabians. They are just made that way. If one wants to compete
seriously in endurance then they should seriously consider a Purebred or 1/2
Arabian. Just my opinion. Let them do their research.
AND, they should not ask for an opinion if they intend to fly off the handle
by the remarks. Some of us will tell you our opinion whether you like the
response or not.
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Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:52:01 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Larry Stewart <lstew@pipeline.com>
Subject: Rides in Arkansas
There are 2 regularly scheduled CTR's held in Arkansas each year- Spring and
Fall- at Dover, AR. Visit the NATRC website( I believe it's
natrc.trailriding.com ) to confirm the May and October dates, or email me
and I'll look them up for you.
kathleen
Larry Stewart & Kathleen Weickhardt
performance arabians for track & trail
http://www.nashville.net/~troppo/sunyland.htm
870.591.6212.tel
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 00:08:11 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
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Since you addressed my reply,
>> What I was
objecting to was the absolutist character of Heidi's statements, as well
as the condescending reference to "if it is your goal
to complete rides on Pasos, by all means go for it. But if your goal is
to advance as an endurance rider..." as if "advance" only meant being
number one in the world.<<
Here was your opening line in your original response to Heidi:
>>Excuse me, on *six* horses, you make these kinds of conclusions? I
doubt that there's enough of a database of this breed in your experience
to make any kind of accurate judgments and at the very least it isn't
very scientific!
That's not a friendly rejoinder in my opinion. It's argumentative.
It's possible to discourse in a friendly manner online even if we
disagree. It's harder to do so without being able to soften words with
facial expressions.
>>Finally, Jerry says: "With messages like yours, it discourages people
from posting their own
EXPERIENCES or opinion."<<
No, Lynn-Marie, I said that, not Jerry. I'm not trying to dissuade you
from posting, you're welcome to be concilatory, and end this. These
posts are viewed worldwide, and responses need to be carefully
considered before transmission.
Lynne
and Rem-member Me
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: ponies@foothills.eznet.com (Patricia O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: Paso Fino
Cc: karakat@spiritone.com
>> What about a Paso Fino for endurance, I've read some about Foxtrotters
but not seen much about Paso's and how they could be trained to do endurance.
I have ridden a Paso Fino gelding at various AERC rides since 1990. This
14.2 hand, 900 lb. Paso has 7.5" cannons and boundless heart and drive. In
6 years he has carried a middle-to-heavyweight, crippled up rider 1000 AERC
miles in rides of 50-75 miles, including a couple of 2-day 100's, and 250
miles of LD rides 1n 1989-96. We have had our share of top 10 finishes; but
age and various disabilities have curbed my personal "need for speed" so
that I am far more content loafing along at the middle to end of the pack
most of the time. Roany's recoveries are slower than some Arabs, faster
than some others. He is the most sure-footed horse I have ever ridden, and
I've ridden an awful lot of horses of various breeds over the past 40 years.
That said, and as a Paso Fino owner and breeder for 12 years, I feel I must
clarify a couple of issues on this thread. First of all, within the Paso
Fino breed there is a large range of height, limb length and angulation and
temperment. There are Pasos bred for the showring that tend to be smallish,
with very refined, delicate legs, and a regretably short stride, which
combined with the rapid footfall (blur of legs) produces the Fino-Fino horse
so admired by the Latino-types on both coasts. At the other end of the
spectrum are pleasure/performance Paso Finos like my dear Roan, with longer,
stronger legs, a wide range of speed in gait (he can keep up with most
Arabs' extended trot, and many horses canter to keep up with him) and the
stamina to keep going. He can also gallop, often much faster than I enjoy
moving through space. There are other breeders, like myself, who are
breeding Paso Finos of size, substance and of a sensible disposition
suitable for trail and endurance riding, and there are starting to be more
out on the trail.
So....if you want to do endurance on a Paso Fino, come visit the Rainbow
Pasos, or send e-mail to Jan and Paul Zito, Rathdrum, ID JZ27121@aol.com.
A list of breeders can be obtained at www.pasofinos.com.
Happy Trails,
Patty and The Roan
Rainbow Paso Fino Ranch
4331 Garden Spot Rd.
Clayton, WA 99110
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From: mtnriderII@webtv.net (Mary Sutliff)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:53:51 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Fwd: Re: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #9
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:24:59 -0800 (PST)
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To: mtnriderII@webtv.net
Subject: Re: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #9
References: <199801050822.AAA16068@mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
In-Reply-To: <199801050822.AAA16068@mailtod-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
X-Loop: ridecamp-d@endurance.net
Sorry, you are not allowed to post to ridecamp-d@endurance.net.
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your message, resend it to ridecamp@endurance.net.
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Steph
--------------------------
Duncan- Are you talking about Zorro and Cometa when you say you've
ridden with a couple of Paso Finos that do OK.? I've ridden both CTR
and some endurance with my half Arab before Gene and I got the Pasos and
I think my Paso could do a fifty with no problem. I'm not saying we
would top ten but I'm sure we could complete. We stopped doing CTR
because it was too political but may try it this year on the PF's ,
also might try Animal House in April. I really think Zorro would do
well in endurance as he's a real power house. The main reason we got
the Paso Finos was that my body wasn't up to 50 miles at a trot no
matter how many pain killers I took. It's amazing how the old body
doesn't hurt anymore with the gaited horses.
--WebTV-Mail-1622829350-3155--
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From: "Budler, Cindy" <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
To: "'ENDURANCE NET'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Helmets
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:51:34 +0200
Return-Receipt-To: <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
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Hi all, Hope the festive season was good for all and that 1998 will
bring success,happiness and most of all no problems with the equines!!
I must relate my experiences yesterday as the only reason I am still
here is because of my Troxel!!. I rode my Arab out on a training ride
yesterday morning and he spooked at a snake in the grass. I was thrown
over his shoulder but ended up with my left wrist tangled in the reins
and was dragged at high speed for about 50 m. His right front hoof
caught me just above the right temple(on the hat) and took about an 2
inch chunk out of the hat.I also have a perfect hoofprint on the left
temple of the hat!!. The back hooves have left tattoo marks all over my
lower body and the ground has finished off what was left. The helmet has
about 3 cracks in it , but because of the way it is designed to absorb
the shock I didn't even have a headache or concussion. I cannot
understand how even here in SA the endurance bodies are not prepared to
make hats compulsory in rides!!. So ---- lessons learned ....
1 Always wear a hat ( and in my case a Troxel)
2 Get shorter reins for the short necked,high carriage Arabs!!)
3 Wear clothes that absorb a bit more of the damage from landing on the
ground (summer wear is not great to go skiing in)
Regards from SA
Cindy
Afrox National Contracts Department
P.O.Box 879 , Germiston,1400
Tel 011 871-1006
Fax 011 873-4623
E-mail : natcon@afrox.boc.com
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d422040f.34b0dce7@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:15:16 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stirrup leathers rubbing shins
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In a message dated 98-01-04 19:59:12 EST, you write:
<< I think Farnam sells those stirrup things that hold the leathers
straight.
>>
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <da246b8f.34b0dcf5@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:15:30 EST
To: Debbyly@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respiratory rate and thumps
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In a message dated 98-01-04 22:18:35 EST, you write:
<<
He has thumped three times in training; all three times after going
moderately
hard uphill for a fairly long distance. He did not go hard enough or long
enough to be exhausted or to have lost significant amount of electrolytes
through sweating.
>>
I have heard many people say their horses didn't work hard enough to have lost
a significant amount of electrolytes through sweating. Think again!!! A
great many horses who thump ARE depleted of electrolytes. Also, how MUCH and
WHAT KIND of electrolytes are you gving? How often? At rides only or during
training as well. Just because it isn't 90 degrees and the horse doesn't show
sweat, does NOT mean he has not lost electrolytes. I have seen several horses
come right out of thumps with a megadose of electrolytes.
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <15d378ed.34b0dcf2@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:15:28 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: rides in Arkansas
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In a message dated 98-01-04 22:16:48 EST, you write:
<<
anyone know of CTR or endurance rides in Ark this coming season?
chris paus & star, who stands with icicles in his mane right now.
>>
Don't you know about the ride calander on-line? Look under events at the home
page for endurance.net. So many people have been asking, that I was beginning
to wonder if anyone knew it was there...past years rides included...it is
helpful, because not all have re-sanctioned ofr 1998 yet.
Teddy
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Reply-To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 07:32:22 -0600 (CST)
To: karakat@SpiritOne.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: RE: Paso Finos
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Ms Lynn Marie, touchy, not me, the section with"with messages like yours it
discourages people from posting their own" did NOT cine frin me. I'll
defind to the death your right to post, say, preach, beller, scream,
anything you like. Well of course you take a smack at my best hunting dog,
and Big Red. Letter rip......Jerry Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK
KNIGHT
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 09:43:52 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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I think this is one main reason that professionals are very hesitant to
answer a post.
Carl Meyer,D.V.M.
> No, Lynn-Marie, I said that, not Jerry. I'm not trying to dissuade you
> from posting, you're welcome to be concilatory, and end this. These
> posts are viewed worldwide, and responses need to be carefully
> considered before transmission.
>
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a674e827.34b107f5@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:18:59 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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Hi, ridecampers--
Dr. Carl Meyer makes an excellent point that professionals are often hesitant
to post because of the reaction that comes from people who think we are
absolutist because we have a degree. It is scary to think that because of who
we are, people think we are making "scientific" statements. We practice in
the real world, and real life is not a lab. We do not have the advantage of
controls, double-blind studies, or government grants to make up protocols to
answer questions that we may have. We DO have the training to try to
understand what we see and interpret things in view of a larger frame of
reference, and, hopefully, after years of experience, a background of case
material against which we can study a particular question or problem. We also
have the training to report things as accurately as we can, such as stating
that we have small sample numbers so that information is taken accordingly. I
can see by the succession of posts that the vast majority of people read and
understood what I wrote and did not feel "slammed." Thank you. I am not shy
and will continue to report what I have seen and observed over the years and
the miles, and hope that I can be of help to someone, somewhere. I have been
on this list for a short time, and have already learned a few things myself,
thanks to the legitimate and rational exchange of ideas and information.
Pat, in my original post, when I mentioned that I had seen one Paso do well,
the horse I was referring to was Roanie. Could not remember his or your name
at that moment, but I think you finished behind me at Lost Wheelbarrow on the
75-miler a few years ago, and you and Roanie did a super job on a tough,
tough, tough trail. Someone had told me that you had a lot of miles on that
horse and had done a good job with him, and I was fascinated to watch the two
of you on the trail and in the checks. Keep up the good work!
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <28eb76a9.34b10a4d@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:28:59 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respiratory rate and thumps
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In response to the thumps question, I am not an expert on thumps, but would
like to say that I have seen a tremendous difference over the years in horses
and their tendency to thump and have come to the conclusion that some
individual a) are not very efficient with their electrolytes, and b) have a
much lower tolerance for an imbalance before the phrenic nerve becomes
affected and begins to thump. I also see this problem cropping up in certain
family lines, so think that there is a genetic tendency toward this lack of
efficiency and/or intolerance. The problem is caused by electrolytes crossing
the nerve sheath and allowing electrical currents from the heart to "fire" the
phrenic nerve, which serves the diaphragm. Debby, I would try to test this
horse, and see if there is a calcium problem or other electrolyte problem, but
keep in mind that it is not something that you will "cure"--only manage. Yes,
I think the hyperventilation might be related and significant. Keep in mind
that each horse has his own electrolyte metabolism and the "right"
supplementation ranges from none at all to megadoses.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
e.net>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:33:33 -0800 (PST)
From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:28:59 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respiratory rate and thumps
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: <jeb@sedona.net>, "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: aluminum trailer
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:06:09 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd19fc$37bb0ba0$5f12c9cf@patfred>
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Beth,
I have a Silverado Aluminum trailer that I purchased in 1993 and I love it.
It is a 3 horse slant with a large tack room and drop down doors. It is
very well built, & I checked out quite a few before purchasing. It also
pulls very easily. I also pulled numerous trailers before deciding on this
one. It is built up in Springfield, Oregon. One of the features I like,
because I am short, is that the latch to open the drop down door is at the
bottom of the door, below the window. There is a single door at the back,
but it is very easy to open & close with one hand.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
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To: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: Re: Endurance Fashion?
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Kris,
There is a Thorlo "outlet" in Statesville, North Carolina
(I thought I had their 800# -- was thinking of doing a comparison article to
sell to magazines on the socks -- must have tossed it)
Hope the above enough info for you to try ordering the "seconds" --
MUCH cheaper i.e. $ 4 - $8 a pair (bought mine about a year and a half ago)
Good Luck
Barbara
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: test, ignore please
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:23:30 -0800
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test
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:52:41 -0500
To: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
>On Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 19:48:23 -0500 you wrote:
>
>
>>When he did these rides he would trot and gallop - to excited to do his
>"gait".
>
> I've often wondered why folks don't work to develop the trot in the
>lateral gaited horses. One trainer of Pasos (who's horse's physique looked
>as though it had "trotting" muscles -- the horse HAD been trained to trot
>and gallop) said that most of his customers just didn't want to bother using
>the trot, but that he had no trouble keeping gait after he'd trained them to
>trot. He felt that the cross training helped strengthen the horse for the
>extremely collected fino work.
>
Barbara,
Most "gaited horse peopel" don' want their horses to ever trot. Many
people told me that by using Misty to do endurance, she would lose her
gait. Misty would walk, trot and gallop - sometimes rack - on endurance
rides. As she got stronger her walk became awsome - about the speed of the
average Arab jog.
Know what, when I asked her to collect into this walk became an awsome
"flat walk". With a little more action with the seat bones this became a
running walk, When collected and on the bit she never broke gait! BTW
this was a snaffle bit. So much for not trotting.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm with a lille hellion on the ground
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'RUN4BEAR'" <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: I am not a "Guest"
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:52:10 -0800
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Teddy, and others who may still be frustrated,
We're still trying to figure out the 'best' way to do this.
If you have a 'Reply To All' option, use this instead of the
'Reply' option. It will do the right thing and put both the
original sender *and* 'ridecamp@endurance.net' as
recipients. Although this is NOT true for the 'guest'
messages - you must still specify who the message is
to go to, whether you want it to go only to the original
sender (who is most likely not a subscribed member) or
also go to ridecamp.
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: RUN4BEAR [SMTP:RUN4BEAR@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1998 7:38 PM
To: step@bluefish.fsr.com
Subject: Re: I am not a "Guest"
In a message dated 98-01-03 16:50:16 EST, you write:
<<
You need to educate me then ... what is going on?
The 'guest@endurance.net' is just a web page
email form for non-subscribers. Does it affect
you?
Steph >>
Whether the e-mail is from Guest or not, when I hit the reply button and it
only goes to "guest" or "a-person". It did NOT used to be that way. Now, I
have to type in ridecamp@endurance.net to post to ridecamp. Something IS
screwey!!!
Teddy
, use this instead of the
'Reply' option. It will do the right thing and put both the
original sender *and* 'ridecamp@endurance.net' as
recipients. Although this is NOT true for the 'guest'
messages - you must still specify who the message is
to go to, whether you 5186 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000010110 06454217041 0013101 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA09039 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:53:32 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 09:53:32 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801051753.JAA09039@fsr.com>
Subject: A variety of questions
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: The Stedmans
Email: ristree@aol.com
Here we go! My husband and I are hooked on distance riding after going to about 3 novice CTRs and a ECTRA clinic this summer. He has an Arabian and got interested in the idea of doing this a couple of years ago, when his horse was about four. I have a Belgian/TB cross I do dressage with, and tagged along for fun, but found it to be a lot more addictive than braiding and wearing white breeches for a two minute nerve-wracking dressage test.
So, needless to say, we've accumulated a few questions that I just know this group can help us with! Thanks in advance for any information you can offer.
My husband has a custom John DiPietra endurance saddle which he really likes, BUT his horse has come back from a couple of the rides with a bit of a sore back (along each side of his spine generally), and has gotten a couple of girth sores. The saddle came with a sheepskin pad and string girth, and we've fiddled with a breast collar, double elastic Cottage Craft type girth, etc., but the problem seems to be lingering. We are considering trying a formula (vinegar/witch hazel/rubbing alcohol) which we heard toughens up the back and
girth area a bit) and are willing to make a pad or girth change to try to make the guy a bit more comfortable. My husband's two point position has gotten better over the summer, but the back got worse, if that helps at all. (By the way, he wears spandex blend riding tights -- but not in hot pink -- so we got a kick out of those postings!! I especially liked the suggestion that men buy them one size too small. Did that come from a woman??)
I need help with getting my draft cross truly fit. She's on the drafty side, but has the world's best, unflappable temperament, and has no trouble with competing the rides, soundness, soreness or hydration -- just with P and R recoveries. Being such a big girl, I expect that, but am looking for hints. We did lots of LSD work, hill work, and then interval training (trot-canter-trot), but even by our last ride, she wasn't as fit as I'd hoped for. Any ideas to get her really BUFF? Thoughts about feeding fat? She's a very easy keeper -- smells food and gains weight! I'd almost decided to trade her in for an Arab or cross, and then she ended up winning our division in a NATRC ride this fall (two days/forty miles), and I'm enjoying her so much, it seems silly!
On some of the surveys, here's our answers:
Yup! The husband will wear spandex, but only in black, and not in our
neighborhood. And he still seems a bit shy about it despite my whistling and catcalling "hey baby!"
I like big horses, with a draft cross, I'd be hard pressed to answer any other way. She's about 16.3 hh and 1600#. I can put her anywhere, and she'll stand next to ANYTHING! The vet at our last ride watched me climb onto a guardrail, cluck to my mare a couple of times, and hop aboard. (I'm 5'4"). She laughed and said "Now I see why you ride that horse!!" My husband's Arab is 15 hh in a brand new pair of shoes; he does most of the getting on/off when one of us drops a baseball cap, crop, carrot, etc.
We especially like one track trails but find the roads nice on occasion,
especially for chit-chatting with each other and other riders. On windy days, on single track trails, we just don't bother conversing, since we can never hear (and frequently misunderstand one another).
Maybe this is why our marriage works! (We've stopped talking to one
another...)
We are having a great time with this sport, and have to admit that I find you folks generally a lot more fun than the other riding disciplines I've been involved with! By a landslide.
Happy Trails from Western New York! The Stedmans
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:14:18 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801051814.KAA10184@fsr.com>
Subject: How Wet is the Osceola National Forest?
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Daniel Rourke, Jean Wonser
Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
There should be no problem getting into The Corral Camp in Osceola
National Forest. A bit of water improves the sand-clay roads. Camp
itself stays suitable for camping. Even during the wet season (winter)
I have never seen the camp too wet to camp. There is no mud in the Camp area. Camping spaces are greatly enlarged from the first Panther Run in l990 there. We can easily camp l00 rigs now, I dare say.
Trails are wetter in winter months than spring and fall due to rain.
North Florida is presently recovering from some heavy rain in December. However flood levels are receeding as I write. As trail designer for the Osceola Horse trails each of the three loops in use for The Osceola Ride have moderate amounts of Forest Service Road incorporated .
Besides this is an Endurance Ride. We like to get wet, rough and
dirty. The only thing we have in the Osceola to slow the hot shoes is
water here and there. We do not even have loose sand, being all
grassed-in. Depending on the weather this week you can expect some water. The only question to be decided by Mother Nature is whether it will be where is it normally, or spread out a bit more.
Come on over and enjoy the fun. We have not lost a rider or horse yet.
Jean Wonser
manager of Panther Run in The Osceola National Forest November 7, l998
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:37:26 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801051837.AA01694@cody.unavco>
To: rayo@cfw.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: head dropping horse
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Ray,
I see a lot of similar advice in various horse magizines. Do more
ground work or arena work. This kind of work is certainly generally
valuable but I think this advice overlooks the true situation sometimes.
Your horse is taking advantage of your fear of rating him going downhill.
Horses can and do take advantage of our weak spots. I have a sweet little
3/4 arabian mare who would not hurt anyone but she just loves to run flat
out. I can not ride her bareback because she has figured out that by
doing a rough (definitely not her normal way of going) trot she can get
me off balance and I will end up having to let her gallop. So I've given
up bareback riding with her unless I'm in the mood for a thrill and have
a good soft summerfallow field to ride in!
I think you forget about staying with the group at all a few times and make
your horse go slow enough down the hills that you are not worrying about
making him fall and then when he tries to duck his head give him a sharp
correction UP AND BACK with the reins.
Teresa
ilar advice in various horse magizines. Do more
ground work or arena work. This kind of work is certainly generally
valuable but I think this advice overlooks the true situation sometimes.
Your horse is taking advantage of your fear of rating him going downhill.
Horses can and do take advantage of our weak spots. I have a sweet little
3/4 arabian mare5189 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003146 06454225476 0013132 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from diamond.sunset.net (root@[205.138.253.252]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA13213 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:49:30 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Dorothy Foster" <hitech@sunset.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: horse size
Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:52:30 -0800
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I am 5'8" and weighed 165 BEFORE the holidays. My little mare is 14.2 with
8" cannons and seems to be able to carry me pretty well. She's a pain in
the neck to mount at the beginning of rides, so if she were any taller, I'd
never be able to get on. I'm going to be starting her Karahty daughter this
summer and plan to do a lot more ground and arena work to insure she's
better trained than mom because she is bigger and I'm getting older and
more brittle all the time. Generally speaking I think conformation and not
size determines whether a horse is a comfortable ride. My little mare is
the smoothest trotting Arab I have ever ridden while the roughest was a 16
hand TB, and a little 14.1 hand Arab I used to own had a bigger (though not
smoother) trot than either of them. Look for a good shoulder for a smooth
ride and a long forearm for a longer stride.
Dorothy & Roshani ... a pair of middle-aged endurance enthusiasts
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dc221a89.34b129bf@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:43:09 EST
To: step@fsr.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: I am not a "Guest"
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In a message dated 98-01-05 12:49:04 EST, step@fsr.com writes:
<< others who may still be frustrated,
We're still trying to figure out the 'best' way to do this.
If you have a 'Reply To All' option, use this instead of the
'Reply' option. It will do the right thing and put both the
original sender *and* 'ridecamp@endurance.net' as
recipients. Although this is NOT true for the 'guest'
messages - you must still specify who the message is
to go to, whether you want it to go only to the original
sender (who is most likely not a subscribed member) or
also go to ridecamp.
Steph
>>
Thanks, Steph....
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Message-ID: <34B12CF8.290B@geocities.com>
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:56:56 -0800
From: Kim <aliakey@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: Poinsettias
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Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net> wrote:
> I'm a newspaper reporter and our paper recently got a news release from the
> state extension service that it is a myth about poinsettias being poisonous
> to dogs, cats and people. The release didnt' mention horses. It's probably
> better to be safe than sorry!
>
> chris paus & the starman (trying to find a dry place. thanks el nino)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Dragged out my handy toxicology book, and pretty much supports Chris's
release. Here's some quoted material (bear in mind this book is
intended for human medicine, not equine):
From: Poisoning and Toxicology Handbook. JB Leikin, MD and Paloucek, FP
MD. 1995. Lexi-Comp Inc, OH. p 894.
"Signs and Symptoms of Acute Overdose: Frequently believed to be toxic,
even a lethal plant, the poinsettia has little toxicity; nausea,
vomiting, and skin irritation are rarely reported to the Poison Control
Center; gastrointestinal symtoms are mild, self-limited, and seldom
require fluid replacement. Estimates, based on animal data, indicated
that a 50 pound child would have to ingest 500 to 600 leaves to cause
symptoms."
"Overdosage Treatment: Wash off patient if irritation is experienced;
dilute with water, milk, or juice for injestions."
Hope it clears stuff up a bit.
Kim (and I'm-about-as-red-as-a-poinsettia, the sorrel 'Lee)
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To: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
From: ponies@foothills.eznet.com (Patricia O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Hey thanks, Heidi!
I appreciate your comments. For the record, I was not particularly offended
by your comments on the breed. There are clearly a number of Paso Finos
that are strong, fast and tough, but the public perception of the breed is
that of a delicate show horse with an "interesting" gait, but not a beastie
you would get on to actually *go* anywhere. This is something our
association needs to address, both nationally and here in the Northwest
region, where there are several breeders interested in promoting Paso Fino
athletes that can clean up well enough to go to town and show, too.
One of the factors in this misperception is the nature of Paso Fino owners.
Many of us have gotten into the breed later in life, after years of
sucessful competion in various endeavours with other breeds, and having
burned out on competition, mostly do pleasure and trail riding. Others,
like myself would like to compete more aggressively but are limited by
career demands and health issues.
I would like to submit your post (with your permission) to our local and
national breed associations, in hope of generating intelligent and rational
dialog about where we are as a breed and where we should be going.
Having regained some degree of health, Mr. RoanHorse and I will be back on
the trail in 1998, and look forward to visiting with you again!
>Pat, in my original post, when I mentioned that I had seen one Paso do well,
>the horse I was referring to was Roanie. Could not remember his or your name
>at that moment, but I think you finished behind me at Lost Wheelbarrow on the
>75-miler a few years ago, and you and Roanie did a super job on a tough,
>tough, tough trail. Someone had told me that you had a lot of miles on that
>horse and had done a good job with him, and I was fascinated to watch the two
>of you on the trail and in the checks. Keep up the good work!
Patty and the Rainbow Pasos
Rainbow Paso Fino Ranch
Clayton, WA 99110
Standing Coral's Palomilo de Vez
breeding stock carrying the bloodlines of Favorito Que Tal, Coral LaCE,
Pincel and Sonador.
n up well enough to go to town and show, too.
One of the factors in this misperception is the nature of Paso Fino owners.
Many of us have gotten into the breed later in life, after years of
sucessful competion in various endeavours with other breeds, and5193 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000006020 06454231733 0013110 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.inficad.com (root@mail.inficad.com [207.19.74.5]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA16776 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:26:15 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:21:13 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Cheryl Newbanks <horsetrails@inficad.com>
Subject: Anyone interested in a Morgan?
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Hey gang I got this from my rodeo list. Maybe one of us can help her out if
you are interested in a morgan horse for endurance.
>Im not sure if this is allowed to be printed, if it bounces back oh well.
>
>Hi all, MAny of yall know me, Its Ida Red, I was with Rec.Sport.Rodeo,
>before we had a newsgroup. Im a barrel racer in Central Ok, and have
>gotten in a bind.
>
>My good barrel horse Doc that I purchased a year or so ago ownner is
>moving to Europpe. I have beeen making payments to her for the time that
>I have had him, she needs the bulk payment at the end of this month. in
>order to pay for him I have to sell some horses.
>
>I am trying to sell my good colt "Qurido Cowboy Up!" to no avail. He is a
>May 95 Morgan colt. he has 90 days on him and is going to make someone a
>real nice horse. Hes been around cattle and is cowy. hes got a little
>speed, but at his age, I wont ask for much. I had hoped to sell him for
>3500. bbut am getting desperate. Ive not gotten but a few calls on him.
>He stannds 14.2 and is still growing. hes sorrel with 3 socks and a star.
>long curly mane and tail. hes seen alot and has been hauled tto rodeos to
>watch. Hes had nothing but gentle hhandling and has awesome manners. Not
>a bad habit one. I started this colt myself, and I train alot of outside
>horses. right now, Im ASKING $2000, but if a person didnt want papers, Id
>negotiate.
>
>let me know...I really like thhis colt and hate to see him go, but yoou
>all know how things go when it comes to a college kid trying to make it on
>the circut!
>
>
>
>Thanks!!!
>
>Jennifer "Ida Red" Ward
>********************************************************
>Jennifer Kerry Ward wardj@okstate.edu
>OK-Shamrock Performance Horses, LTD,.
>Rt 3 Box 424-1
>Stillwater, OK 74075
>
>
>Quality Performance Horses available, training for both horse and rider,
>Barrel racing, Team Roping, Calf Roping and Western Performance Horses:We
>Guarantee what we sell
>********************************************************
>
>
Cheryl Newbanks
~~ ^ ^ Just In Time Ranch
~~~\ _ ~~/ /\ / Buckeye, AZ
( )__ ) ' ' horsetrails@inficad.com
// \\
// \\
** **
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:39:26 -0800
From: Lynn-Marie Kara & Luther Sturtevant <karakat@SpiritOne.com>
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To: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
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Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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Heidi,
One final post regarding the "Paso Fino" thread, assuming that I will not continue
to be flamed both on and off the list:
First, my initial phrase <Excuse me, on *six* horses, you make these kinds of
conclusions?> could have been phrased less abrasively. It was probably a little
too sarcastic for this list. However the question was still appropriate
considering the conclusion which you reached, ie. <Paso Finos do not seem to be
ideal endurance horses.>
The original request was a simple one: <What about a Paso Fino for endurance,
I've read some about Foxtrotters but not seen much about Paso's and how they could
be trained to do endurance.> The question wasn't about whether one should buy an
Arabian vs. a Paso Fino, or about competing at the international level. For
people just getting into endurance, that's probably not one of their first
concerns. On the other hand, if she has a Paso Fino, and it has a good largo,
there's no reason she shouldn't be encouraged to participate. She might just do
very well, as some indeed have!
There were also several appropriate and clear answers to her question ... ie.,
from Susan Evans Garlinghouse, Bruce Murdock, Truman Prevatt, and Patricia
O'Rourke. It is true that in your later
post you pointed out that you had clearly stated that you were speaking from
limited experience <I have seen approximately half a dozen; one has done well.>
However, you then qualified
that by describing the one as <a Paso that neither looked nor moved like a Paso.>
But it *was* a Paso Fino, one of many being bred and raised which are focusing
upon something other than fino fino (as elloquently stated in Patricia's note.)
Yes, you did state that <This is not meant to discourage you from riding your Paso
on
endurance rides, as almost all horses benefit from distance conditioning.>
However I felt that it was placed in a context that denegrated those for whom
being at the top is not necessarily the goal. For some, and I think this should
be the primary focus of endurance riding, the goal is to complete the ride with
class and at the highest level possible for horse and rider. And this should be
celebrated rather than being given second billing.
Again, I appologize for the sarcasm.
Shalom,
Lynn-Marie and Mama Marucha
Portland, Oregon
>
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Message from Lari Shea, FW: Improving respiratory rate
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:45:13 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: by way of Lari Shea <larishea@horse-vacation.com> [SMTP:ridecamp-request@endurance.net]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 12:05 AM
To: step@fsr.com
Subject: Re: Improving respiratory rate
Hi Steph,....I tried changing my Eudora settings, but still came back.
Can't seem to get Ridecamp to load thru endurance net tonight...could you
please post these two postings for me? Thanks much. I'll deal with
figuring it all out tomorrow.....Lari
Hi Debby,
Twenty years ago Matthew Mackey-Smith wrote an article in which he discussed
"teaching" a horse to breathe deeper, thus necessitating fewer breaths per
minute. The gist of it was: Horses must breathe in rhythm with their
canter/gallop stride, breathing in as the body streches out with the second
beat, and exhailing because of the bellows effect of the visceral gut
socking them in the diaphram after the third beat .
They "learn" to breathe in sync with their trot stride, and soon always do
so unless they need to throw in a gulping extra breath in order to keep up
with oxygen need..... this is a good clue from up in the saddle that one may
as well slow down, as you can't fool mother nature. (He also mentioned that
they breathe in/out in rhythm with the rider's posting diagonal....they
switch when the rider switches diagonals.) Since the trot rhythm is faster
than the canter rhythm from start of first beat til start of next first
beat, they breathe faster, and hense more shallowly at the trot than at the
canter.
To teach a horse to breathe deeper at the trot, after the horse has been
thoroughly warmed up and is in working mode, canter at a moderate rate up a
hill that is at least 200 yards long, which has a flat at the top. The
uphill canter will cause the horse to breathe deeply. At the top, break to
the extended trot on the flatt, trying to keep a rhythm that approximates
the breathing rhythm that was happening at the canter. The first few
breaths will be deep because the horse needs oxygen because of cantering up
the hill. If you push him on at a lengthened stride trot, but don't let
him speed up the beats, he will experience himself taking deep breaths, and
will learn from the experience.
Well......does it work? Let me put it this way,....I have tried to perform
this manouver just out of curiosity, and found it isn't easy to tell if I'm
having an effect. Then again, I wasn't riding a horse with a respiratory
glitch; I was just trying out his theory.
To teach a horse to breath deeper at the stand still, Kerry has mentioned
the old trick of lightly closing his nostrils for a few seconds, after which
he'll likely breathe deeper for at least a few breaths. I've heard of
using this to snap a horse out of panting mode and into slower, deeper
respirations on a warm day....the thought being that some horses sort of get
stuck in panting mode when they are actually cool enough that they don't
need to be doing it any more.
Gayle Ecker at Guelph would be the person I'd ask re. the alkalosis
question. Her email address is: Gayle L Ecker <gecker@uoguelph.ca>
Also, Jerry Gillespie or some other research oriented vet might have an
insight at to how fast, shallow respiration relates to thumps.
I'd be curious know what you find out.
Good luck.....
Lari
Lari Shea http://www.horse-vacation.com
Ricochet Ridge Ranch Riding Vacations on the Mendocino Coast with
24201 North Highway One Lodging at Unique B&B Inns; International Riding.
Fort Bragg, CA 95437 Akhal Teke and Russian Orlov/cross horses
707-964-7669ph/ 707-964-9669 fax At stud: RRR Stolichnaya & RRR Russia
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Message from Lari Shea . FW: Russian Orlov crosses
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 11:46:41 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Lari Shea [SMTP:larishea@www.horse-vacation.com]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 12:05 AM
To: step@fsr.com
Subject: Re: Russian Orlov crosses
(Hi Steph....here's the other posting I need put through to the listserve
for me....thanks again....Lari)
--------------------------------------------------
<Also, if Lari is keeping up with this, maybe you can give me some
<iinfo. My daughter and I dropped in to Lari's ranch last fall to
<share our Rhodesian Ridgebacks and meet hers. Lari was not there,
<but Fuchsia said we could go back and look at the horses, my
<daughter wanted to see an Akhal Teke.
<What caught my eye, being partial to greys were two absolutely
<gorgeous BIG greys, a gelding and mare, that I am guessing were
<Orlav/Arab crosses. They were wonderfully put together, with long
<sloping shoulders, and I think over 15.2 hands. They were in with
<the bay Akhal Teke mare, in the back. Lari, do you know which two
<of your horses that sounds like?
<Karen
Hi Karen,
There are actually three grays Russian Orlov cross geldings and one gray
mare in the corral with the Akhal-Teke mare (as well as two bay Orlov cross
geldings) The 5 year old endurance mare Nature's Ricochet is 15.3, out of a
15hh Tezero arab mare. One bay is 17.2hh, out of a 15.2 Thoroughbred. The
1/2 arab Sungari is the other bay, standing 15.2. The three grays geldings
are Nature's L'Chiam, a spectacular moving 16.2hh dressage horse who also
jumps 5 foot fences, out of a 15.2 Thoroughbred; and two horses still in
their first year under saddle, Nature's Fantastic, 16.hh also out of a
Thoroughbred, and Nature's Zhivago, 15.3 out of an arab. All are sired by
Nature's Ballet, my deceased 15.3hh Russian Orlov stallion who completed
Tevis 5 times (and the Ride and Tie Championships once.....I didn't stop to
think that folks don't usually ride stallions on Ride & Tie....but "Blue"
was a perfect gentleman, as always, even when mares were left tied to the
same tree). I froze Blue's semen, but am not selling it any more. His sire
was 17hh, and Blue threw height. Nearly all of his babies also inherited
his tremendous length of stride, huge bone and fabulous disposition.
Now I'm waiting to see how my two Akahl-Teke stallions' progeny turn out.
The first foals, out of Arab mares, all look extremely promising. And, by
the way, a litter of Rhodesian Ridgebacks sired by my 120 lb. Maji Moto will
be born in late February, ready for sale the first week of April.
Lari
Lari Shea http://www.horse-vacation.com
Ricochet Ridge Ranch Riding Vacations on the Mendocino Coast with
24201 North Highway One Lodging at Unique B&B Inns; International Riding.
Fort Bragg, CA 95437 Akhal Teke and Russian Orlov/cross horses
707-964-7669ph/ 707-964-9669 fax At stud: RRR Stolichnaya & RRR Russia
Lari Shea http://www.horse-vacation.com
Ricochet Ridge Ranch Riding Vacations on the Mendocino Coast with
24201 North Highway One Lodging at Unique B&B Inns; International Riding.
Fort Bragg, CA 95437 Akhal Teke and Russian Orlov/cross horses
707-964-7669ph/ 707-964-9669 fax At stud: RRR Stolichnaya & RRR Russia
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 14:52:50 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
Subject: Saddles
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Ok everyone I need an opinion. I am real interested in the
Arabian Saddles Companys endurance saddle----Solstice Endurance.
Anyone out there familiar with them? Before I get a second job
to pay for this saddle I would appreciate any help.
Julie R.Coats, A.H.T.
Cardiac Research Technician
NCSU College of Veterinary Medicine
julie_coats@ncsu.edu
919 829-4325
fax 919 515-9427
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:34:31 +0100
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Karen Allnutt <allnutt@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: regarding trailers
Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:25:45 EST
From: Wrecksduke <Wrecksduke@aol.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Trailers... again
Message-ID: <59e3b0ba.34aa47db@aol.com>
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What's your preference:
1) Aluminum vs. Steel
2) Aluminum and Steel combos
3) Sundowner, Sooner......
Reply privately if you think it will clutter the list.
Thanks!
Melody -- who just got a big truck that can pull a trailer finally
Wrecksduke@aol.com
Melody, I actually think that stainless steel is the best way to go.
Lighter than aluminium (because stainless can be a lighter gauge but still
stronger than aluminium), never rusts (frame is also stainless steel),
never needs
to be acid washed, looks new forever!
I know of only one company that makes them (there could be others). All
the stuff they do is custom so you get exactly what you want and pay the
same as a mass produced product in aluminum. Plain steel is still the
cheapest but just wears out through rust and costs too much to haul.
If you want to to know the company I know of let me know.
KcA & Rose (I like training because it gets boring just being a pasture
ornament) & Archie (don't forget me just because I turn 5 this year)
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:36:35 +0100
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Karen Allnutt <allnutt@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: regarding height of horse & controlled vs uncontrolled starts
I used to be a big horse person (16.2 hands +) until I had to feed the
monster until she died. Don't get me wrong, I loved Duchess and kept her
for 17 years until she died at 29. But she cost a fortune to feed as she
aged (and I took advantage of beet pulp and oil).
Part of the size thing was being in the three day eventing mode where
bigger is considered better, although I rode a little 15 hand mare that
could jump everything the bigger horses could who probably started me
thinking that maybe smaller was better.
I got my mustang because I couldn't afford a more expensive horse, I wanted
a smaller, hardier, easier to feed horse. Rose might just be 15 hands, she
is extremely thrifty and has hooves as tough as steel (my farrier is
constantly amazed at how hard her feet are), and she doesn't get dinged up
like me TB mare used to. For the $$ and the time she is worth it. Also,
since my horses seem to live long lives, I wanted something I could age
gracefully into. I don't know about the rest of you but this body isn't
what it was 15 years ago. Closer to the ground, cheaper to feed are what I
look for.
Archie, Rose's companion, is also 15 hands. He is not as easy a keeper as
she is, but at least he is easy to get on and off, and I can throw the
nieces up onto him without injuring myself.
My vote now is for 14.2-15.2 but then I am only 5'6". For my age group
this was average height, compared to my nieces I'm a shorty.
In my ignorance, I thought all starts were controlled. Must be the rides I
know of do it that way, possibly because they trails are so narrow and to
avoid disasters?
I can't imagine a 'european racehorse' style start and have no idea what
either of my horses would do. I guess I need to ask about this if I go
further afield than the rides that I know of.
Karen & Rose (ride me more) & Archie (what about me?)
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:37:32 +0100
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Karen Allnutt <allnutt@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: strokes & bute usage
>
>Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 08:20:50 -0800
>From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
>To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: Stroke & Bute
>Message-ID: <19980102163257196.AAC237.154@pcda>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>I'm posting this for a friend--She's looking for help and opinions....
>
>She has an older (30+ I think) gelding named Dan. In 1994 she had her
>horse checked out by a vet at UCD after being told by her local vet that he
>had had a stroke. The UCD vet thought that Dan had some sort of
>"neurological" problem, but says that a stroke is very unusual in horses.
>
>Her questions, though, mainly concern bute. Her horse is taking 1/2 gram a
>day, and has been for several years. She's weaned him down that far, but
>can't seem to get him off of it all together, as the symptoms from the
>"stroke" reoccur. She's concerned about having him on this for so long and
>doesn't want to cause any more problems with his health.
>
>Have any of you had experience with long term bute usage? Or any
>suggestions about things she could be doing to minimize any damage it may
>cause?
>
>dorothy & elly
>taylorsville, ca
>
I had an older mare that probably had a stroke at 35, died at 39. We did
not use bute for the stroke, although bute had been used for navicular
earlier in her life. Anyway the other older mare had used bute a lot in
her younger life and it was my understanding that chronic bute use
contributed to her liver failure (she died at 29). I am not a vet or a
pathologist, but it is my understanding that regular/chronic bute use
causes liver damage. I don't think there is anything other than not using
bute that 'corrects' the damage. What are the symptoms that your friend is
trying to correct with bute? My mare who had the stroke had partial
paralysis on one side of her body that corrected itself in about 2 weeks.
She was alert, eating, drinking, ambulating. If she had been in obvious
pain or unable to eat, drink or move I would have euthanized her. As it
was she lived for another 4 years.
KcA & Rose (who misses the teasing the old ladies) & Archie (who is
surrounded by females - sheep, a goat & Rose and who never knew the old
ladies)
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:38:59 +0100
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Karen Allnutt <allnutt@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
Subject: Re: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #9
I'm not a vet, but I had similar problems with Archie when I first got him.
My vet recommended doing a blood workup. It turned out Archie was
extremely anemic. Put him on an iron supplement recommended by the vet and
within a month he was a different horse.
Just food for thought, it might not be his lungs but a physical
manifestation of another problem.
KcA & Rose the mustang & Archie the unpapered paint
>
>Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:37:49 EST
>From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Respiratory rate and thumps
>Message-ID: <34e17835.34b03971@aol.com>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
>I would like to get opinions, especially from vets, about respiratory rate
>and thumps. I have a seven year old Arabian gelding who has had a moderate
>amount of conditioning. He has done 650 miles of endurance, mostly multidays.
>He has a very high respiratory rate. He seems to breathe shallow and starts
>to breathe rapidly as soon as he starts any work. His pulse rate is
>comparable to other Arab endurance horses and his pulse recovery is good. His
>respiratory recovery takes longer than his pulse recovery.
>
>He has thumped three times in training; all three times after going moderately
>hard uphill for a fairly long distance. He did not go hard enough or long
>enough to be exhausted or to have lost significant amount of electrolytes
>through sweating.
>
>I think that possibly the thumping in this case is caused by hyperventilation.
>Can thumps be caused by a respiratory alkalosis and a problem with the
>distribution of calcium rather than an actual calcium deficiency?
>
>Does anyone have any suffestions for training to improve respiratory rate and
>depth of respiration?
>
>Thank you,
>
>Debby Lyon
>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:51:27 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
Lets face it there are only a "handfull" of people that can compete at the
international level. First, even before one consideres the luck of getting
a horse capable, one has to consider the rider. The rider needs to be of
the correct size - 165 pounds with tack. Now what percentage does that
include? I've taken weight ins at rides and that is a very small number.
Every ounce over that is a handycap. Next is physical ability of the
rider.
It won't be very long untill the athletic ability of the rider becomes as
important as the horse. A rider that can run uphill for long streches and
save the horse or run downhill so speed can be made safely - I think this
is what happened at the 95 North American - will become the norm. Today it
is not the norm but it will be soon - especially if money is involved -
maybe even without money.
Next is the money involved in supporting this habit - it does take some.
It also takes a lot of time and this translates to money since most of us
have to work to support ourselves and this dasterly habit call the love of
horses.
Then even with the best conditioning and selection program it takes luck.
Not every horse is a Cash or a Rio. What one in a 1000, one in 10,000?
This is baring accidents, injuries, etc. One bad fall 10 years ago and
Micheal Jordan would have had a short basketball career.
Now where does that leave the rest of us, the people who love horses, who
love the challenge and who love to ride. Some of us are aging boomers that
need a little smoother ride than some of the Arabs I have seen. This is
not to say that all Arabs are rough riding - I have a very smooth Arab at
home that I am now riding. But I was lucky to find this guy. I have a
little walking horse filly in the field that may very be be my "old age
horse".
The great thing about this sport is the ability to go out with whatever you
want to ride and enjoy yourself. A top ten here or there is icing on the
cake, a win or a BC is choclate icing, but it is not the cake for most of
us. So the question as can a Paso, a walking horse, a foxtrotter a 1/4
horse, Appy, Morgan, etc. do endurance can be answered yes - if it is the
proper body type, has the appropriate conformation, is the proper size for
the rider and is properly conditioned - all the same questions one has to
ask about a potential endurance horese (even an Arab). Sure it may take a
year longer to get the non Arabs in good condition, but how many Arabs self
distruct because they are to good too fast? These non Arabs may not be at
the top of the heap, but there are only a very few horses a the top of the
heap.
Now I'll get off my soap box.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm with a lille hellion on the ground
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:02:01 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <1.5.4.16.19980105140027.1eff8d7c@fix.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
Subject: non-endurance / but scarey
Folks, sorry to clutter the list with non-endurance related info but this
gentle woman, Doris, could use your help if you happen to live in the
Tucson,AZ area. She is a horse person interested in distance riding and her
horses have been 'attacked' in the past.
PLEASE don't respond to ridecamp, I don't have much more information that
what's here. Thanks for your patience.
Our daughter forwarded this to us from the CTR list, Doris bought the bay
mare we had for sale a year ago, she's an extremely nice, well educated
professional lady, we've read lots of her posts when we were on the CTR
(competitive trail riding) list and she loves her animals very deeply. i'd
like to get this out to as many animal lists as I can so maybe people in her
general area (or, heck, even out of her area) could maybe apply a little
pressure to the proper places (law enforcement agencies etc). we forwarded
her email to the newspapers in Phoenix and Tuscon as well as CNN in hopes of
getting her some attention.
karen clanin
kclanin@fix.net
>>Around the 18 of December I received another piece of eerily threatening (a
>>la Steven King) hate mail. Although I try to keep my life cheerful when it
>>comes to my animals, I have been singled out, stalked, harassed, and
>>terrorized by someone I tried to assist back in 1995. Someone who, in
>>fact, has tried to enflame an entire community to help her in her psychotic
>>and delusional obsession; even though I am not now nor have I ever been the
>>author of her problems.
>>
>>After I forwarded the hate mail to law enforcement, it was but a few days
>>before my wonderful dog Freckles and two of his companions were poisoned.
>>That was this last Sunday evening and Monday morning. Coincidence? Maybe.
>>But certainly bears looking into.
>>
>>Freckles died after hundreds of siezures which could not be controlled in
>>time. He was an Aussie shepherd who had been given to me as a gift to
>>protect my livestock from human predation way back in 1995, when the
>>terrible animal mutilations and killings first began. Ironic huh!
>>
>>In addition to Freckles they got Sweet Pea, a rescued half-blind fox
>>terrier who had been with me for several years. They also poisoned
>>Frederick the Great (Freddie), my little mini-schnauser.
>>
>>Sweet Pea is okay. He always was a timid eater and that probably is what
>>saved his life.
>>
>>Fred always was a voracious eater. He dumped the contents of his ample
>>breakfast (which I did not provide) in front of me while I was on the
>>computer Monday morning. That is probably what saved HIS life.
>>Immediately after he did this he began the same discoordination I had seen
>>with Sweet Pea. By the time I rushed Freddie to the vet, he was siezing
>>the way Freckles had just before he died.
>>
>>The people at Mesquite Veterinary Hospital in Catalina really did a valiant
>>job of bringing Freddie through. By 6 pm Monday night, he was still
>>starting to sieze whenever the valium he was being given wore off. His
>>temperature was being kept up to deathly cold with hot water bottles and
>>heating pads. He was getting rehydrated, charcoaled, etc. in an attempt to
>>counteract the effects of a poison which had not yet been identified.
>>
>>Because there was no night staff at the hospital I elected to take Freddie
>>home and care for him closely myself. It was a little touch and go to be
>>sure he was hydrated enough to make it through the night but they managed
>>to inject enough fluid under the skin to give him a good "camel hump" for
>>absorbtion during the night.
>>
>>At the time I took him home no one knew whether he would even live till
>>morning. It was my job to keep him comfortable and to administer the
>>valium which would keep him from tearing himself apart and destroying his
>>brain with siezures.
>>
>>I carried the little guy home in a laundry basket and put him up in my
>>great big king sized bed with me. When he woke up a little bit his legs
>>would immediately start motoring and I would have to give him more valium.
>>
>>I 'd thrown all my socks and underwear out of my dresser drawer onto the
>>floor, put the drawer on the bed, lined it with an elaborately flowered
>>plastic shower curtain, and padded that with terry towels right out of the
>>linen closet...and a feather pillow for him to cuddle up to.
>>
>>But with the little energy he had, Freddie crept out of the drawer coming
>>to rest against my side. Sampson, my grey tabby cat always liked Freddie
>>and seemed to know what to do. He crept up onto Fred's side and perched
>>there as if to keep warming him up with body contact. Minnie Mouse took
>>her cue from Sampson and stretched out full length along the remaining
>>side. Freddie had the "hot water bottes" the veterinarian had recommended.
>>They purrred for him throughout the night. Sweet Pea, the wandering fox
>>terrier who had come to my farm half-blind some years ago, did what he
>>could to snuggle Freddie whenever there was space; and he also got up in
>>Freddie's face licking him as though to remind him to keep on keeping on.
>>
>>I guess I finally realized I had to sleep and so I tied a bathrobe belt
>>around Freddie's middle and tied the other end to my wrist. With the
>>confidence that I could keep track of him if he started a siezure, I
>>drifted off to sleep for an hour at a time.
>>
>>In the morning a still-alive Freddie was carried back to the veterinarian.
>>We discovered right away that he was now blind. But we'd made progress.
>>He'd left in a basket the previous night and he was able to totter a few
>>unbalanced steps.
>>
>>Now a new effect was a problem when I took him home. He was ":motoring"
>>around the house non-stop as though this was a part of the siezure
>>behavior. Knocking him out with a safe amout of valium only lasted about
>>20 minutes so I tried non-stop love. I held him in my arms and would
>>stroke him until he would relax and go back to sleep. His temperature went
>>up and down like a roller coaster but gradually normalized.
>>
>>By New Year's Eve, Freddie was able to walk into the veterinarian's office
>>even if he couldn't see.
>>
>>And today, New Year's Day, it looks like Freddie just might be getting his
>>sight back.
>>
>>Tomorrow we go for an exam again. I don't kid myself that Freddie will
>>ever be the same. He seems to be having something like a new kind of
>>siezure in which he merely "goes away" by standing still without seeing,
>>hearing or moving for the duration of the episode.
>>
>>But he is ALIVE!
>>
>>All over the United States (but not in Catalina) some wonderful people who
>>heard about this from another source, are trying to find me an Australian
>>Shepherd stock dog to take his place guarding me, being my loyal
>>companion, and helping me with the management of the goats and horses.
>>What is really amazing is that total strangers are coming out of the
>>woodwork to find a dog they can GIVE me.
>>
>>As one person put it," No dog can ever replace Freckles." But we can try
>>to find you one who will be by your side and who you can learn to love."
>>
>>If you would like to help me and my endangered horses, goats, and remaining
>>dogs, please call or write Sheriff, Pima County Sheriff's Department,
>>Tucson, Arizona;
>> Pima County Attorney's Office Tucson, Arizona
>>(Please also write: Sheriff, Maricopa County Sheriff's Department, Phoenix,
>>Arizona (that is the county from which the signed hate mail originates)
>>
>>And, Grant Wood, Attorney General State of Arizona, Phoenix, Arizona
>>
>>Since 1995 I have had at least 20 animal mutilations, tortures, and deaths
>>which have not been from wild predation or natural causes.
>>
>>Got the time? Give me a hand.
>>
>> My experience has been that agencies do their work much better when they
>>are reminded that the world is watching. Let them know, please.
>>
>>
>>Doris Woods at Gentle Path Farm Tucson,Arizona, U.S.A.
>>sunrise@azstarnet.com The Catalina Sunrise Home page:
>>http://www.azstarnet.com/~sunrise/
>>For The Love of Horses:
>>http://www.azstarnet.com/~sunrise/horse/horse.html
>>Mac 6300 32mg RAM Netscape 3.01, Eudora 3.01
>>
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 15:59:38 -0500
Subject: Not too bright!
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Okay--
Here's my second attempt to post on Ridecamp . . . Sometimes I'm a
bit cyber-slow.
In my previous post, I noted what an easy going crew it was posting
messages here (having experienced some of the flames on the dressage
board), but after that whole Paso Fino/Peruvian tirade, I'll just say
hmmmm. Just IMO, we horsepeople, as a general group, have pretty
strong opinions, and are pretty knowledgeable, and are quite willing
to share. Sometimes it makes for lively discussions, and sometimes
misunderstandings and ouched feelings. Its probably safe to say that
the whole discussion was heartfelt, but misinterpreted a bit on all
ends. That happens. (Off my soapbox now, and the music is
fading....)
My husband has a 6 y.o. Arab gelding with whom he started CTRs this
past year (made it to about 4, I believe)-- they're doing great! He
purchased a custom John DiPietra saddle about two years ago, and while
he loves it, Shantih has come back a bit back sore, and with an ouchy
girth area a couple of times. He's tried a double elastic end Cottage
Craft girth without much improvement. He's continued to use the
sheepskin pad which came with the saddle, as well as a breast collar.
Any ideas, or suggestions on that one? A crupper? A different (or
additional) pad? The problem got a bit worse as the season went on
although Rich's two point position and balance was getting better.
We're stymied, and would love to hear your thoughts.
My dilemma is this. I have a 5 y.o. Belgian/TB mare who I intended to
do dressage with, but I tagged along with my husband and got hooked on
the long distance riding. (Way better than white breeches -- Holy
Thighs, Batman! -- braids and two minute nerve-wracking dressage
tests.) I confess we still do that 'dressage thing', too. Since my
mare is definitely drafty, she takes a lot of work to keep fit. We
worked LSD, then lots of hill work interspersed, and by the end of the
season were doing trot-canter intervals. Even then, she wasn't as
"buff" as I'd hoped. (Had it in the back of my mind to sell her, but
she won our novice division at the NATRC ride in September at Chagrin
River!) Tess does great on hydration, soundness (you would too if you
had 10+ inches of bone), and coming back without so much as a bump,
but her P and Rs could be better. Now I know the drafts generate a
lot of heat, and we plan to feed corn oil (theory that dietary fat
helps them contain that heat) and condition hard this year. She's an
extremely easy keeper. Any suggestions on the best way to get my
silly mare fit as a fiddle?
Offering our opinions on some of the postings here:
*No half chaps on us, but we see a lot of them (Western New York).
*I like big horses, but only the ones you don't fall off of much, and
will stand anywhere to be mounted (mine's 16.3+hh, and the vet at the
NATRC ride was in stitches watching the crazy places she'd let me
mount from after P and Rs) -- I'm 5'4". With my 5'10" husband on his
14.3hh Arab, we look like Mutt and Jeff!
*My husband wears spandex blend riding tights (from Back in the
Saddle) but only in black (no hot pink for my manly man!) and only in
the right size. (I just HAVE to know if the person who advised that
men buy them one size too small was a woman?!?!?)
*We like controlled starts. My husband has a hard enough time pacing
the Arab, and my mare is like a steam train when she's convinced she's
being left behind. 1600# of whoa Bessie! Perhaps we'll feel less
this way when we're veterans.
*We like a mix of single-track and road trails. Roads are great for
setting an easy-to-gauge pace, and for conversing. We don't even
bother trying to chat on the single width trails, since we can never
catch what the other says (perhaps this is why our marriage works so
well!)
Take care and Happy Trails! --Patti and Serendipity (AKA "Tank Girl"
and "Bertha Butt" -- the horse, not me!)
e
Craft girth without much improvement. He's continued to use the
sheepskin pad which came with the saddle, as well as a breast collar.
Any ideas, or sugge5205 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003065 06454246641 0013114 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26892 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:16:13 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:16:13 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801052116.NAA26892@fsr.com>
Subject: saddle for sale
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Adrienne Pape
Email: pape@students.uiuc.edu
Attention to all who will be attending
the convention in KY:
I have a Zes saddle for sale. True
rider version with integrated bootie
pad system. Lightweight, only 12#.
Comes with extra leather pieces to
convert to 'traditional' pad system.
Very easy to change back and forth.
Three years old, used minimally during
that time. Good condition, comfortable,
comes with 2 Zes neoprene girths,
biothane stirrup leathers, lightweight
aluminum end. stirrups, black fleece
stirrup leather covers, and integrated
pad.
Unfortunately, current
financial situations make it necessary
for me to sell this saddle, and I am
willing to negotiate in order to sell
it soon.
My friend, Bruce Nagel, will be
at the convention and will have the
saddle with him. If anyone is
interested, please e-mail me at:
pape@students.uiuc.edu
and I will be happy to answer any
questions and get you in touch with him
so you can take a look at it at the
convention.
Asking price: $850
(New, they are around $1200,
not including the extras.)
Please, make an offer- I really
need to sell!
Thank you,
Adrienne Pape
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From: Keeyun <Keeyun@aol.com>
Message-ID: <18f44e2c.34b14f78@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:24:05 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: site problems
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Hi i am having trouble connecting to the site and am wondering if it is just
me or if you are still having trouble.
Thanks Kelly
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From: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Reply-to: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 13:46:07 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <199801011939.LAA00884@fsr.com>
Cc: bmurdock@cyberhighway.net
Subject: Re:Endurance Fashion?
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.29 (Unregistered)
Bruce,
I've been riding in tights since 1984 and have tried just about every
brand. The most comfortable ones are the made for riding breeches, they
are typically expensive and made from pretty heavy material which I find
too warm in summer. They have a leather or ultrasuede knee patch which
helps protect the inside of your knees. I am now using tights made with
the "Kerrits" brand name. hey are distributed by Eisers out of PA and are
available at most riding shops and endurance suppliers. I also like the
O'Kayhea (sp?) Power Stretch tights for winter riding. They are made of
stretch polar fleece with a knee patch and are very warm and close fitting
for winter riding even in the rain. They do not hold water when and keep
their warmth even in wet weather.
For summer I like to go with lightweight nyon/lycra tights with a knee
patch. There are several makers of these but my wife makes mine for me,
She also sells them out of her store, The Australian Connection (had to
get the plug in).
As for the shoes, I ride in running or cross training shoes. The cross
trainers are a little softer in the foot so I don't get sore feet at all.
The running shoes I'll use are made for trail runners and have a small
heel and a hiking shoe-like tread.
For that matter you could try lightweight hiking shoes, I can't find any
that fit my 4E ultra-wide foot.
Most complaints of rubbing at the knee are due to poor riding styles not
the pants. I've watched a lot of people ride and post the trot by
swinging their legs forward and back. Don't swing your leg, and you
shouldn't, while posting the trot and you sould not get any rub marks!
>------------------------------
>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:06:03 -0700
>From: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
>To: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: Endurance Fashion?
>Message-ID: <01BD1696.53793600@ts4-13.boi.cyberhighway.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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> What brands have the rest of you guys tried, =
>vendors?
> I have the feeling that my cowboy boots and spandex may not be the best
>=
>fashion statement, so what type of boot or shoe do you prefer? I have =
>seen quite a few people in running shoes, but somehow I don't think that
>=
>I would feel comfortable riding in them.
>I expect that the new fashion statement might get some real strange =
>looks from some of the "cowboy" crowd I ride with, so the Wranglers & =
>boots won't be retired completely <g>.=20
>Bruce & Star (No Horselaughs allowed!!!)
>------------------------------
>End of ridecamp-d Digest V97 Issue #818
>***************************************
----------------------------------------------------
Raymond Santana
Network Operations
UC Davis Medical Center
Sacramento, CA
rtsantana@ucdavis.edu or
raymond.santana@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4727b87e.34b153be@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:42:18 EST
To: karakat@SpiritOne.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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Hi, Lynne-Marie--
Apology accepted. I still stand by my answers: 1) Small sample. 2) Not
the "ideal" breed, from what I have seen. 3) Most horses can complete. 4)
Define your goals. 5) Do your best. No shame in that, that I can see. I
will stand behind my reputation of trying to vet fairly when presented with
horses that are "different" and "move funny." More power to 'em. My goal was
to share experience, not start a debate. May we all learn from each others'
experiences--isn't that what this list is all about?
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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To: Debbyly@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Resp/Thumps
Message-ID: <19980106.024921.11534.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 16:55:02 EST
You asked for info. on high respiration in conjunction with thumps.
Sorry, I'm not a vet, but here's my experience.
I had an Appaloosa gelding who showed clinical signs of thumps, (as
in, the twitching side) but never really had thumps. Does that make
sense? I was riding this horse when I first tried endurance riding, and
I didn't understand what all the fuss over where to take the pulse was.
I could sit on him at any given time after he was warmed up and feel his
pulse in my legs. Very convenient. After I'd read some articles, and
then seen a horse with thumps at a ride, I did a long training ride, got
off and ..".Oh my gosh! He has thumps!" I stayed with him all evening
while he happily ate grass. The next time he did it was in competition.
I was at the third check of a 50 when I noticed the thumping. I showed
the vet, (a wizened old endurance vet who was very frustrated at my slow
pace on a fit horse) and he said, "He don't have thumps". I said, "But
look at his side" He said," I don't care what it's doing, he don't have
thumps." I slowed down even more, but he was right, the horse was fine.
I got my completion. At the next ride I explained to the vet at the
vet-in that he would thump as soon as he got going good, but he was O.K.
He gave me that "Yea, right" look and said "We'll see". At the half way
check, (it was a 25 mile ride) he was not thumping yet, but my riding
partner's out time was one minute before mine, I was mounted up and
waiting when she trotted off. I felt him begin thumping that instant,
but said nothing to the vet. At the finish line I took him to the vet
and said, "Here it is, what do you think?" I guess it helped that I was
something of a beginner and though I trained hard at home, I was very
conservative in competition. The vet agreed that the horse was fine,
well hydrated, perfect scores all around, and gave me my completion. They
described it as a hyperactive phrenic nerve. (Talk about carrying X-rays,
try telling vets that one at the vet in). By the way, this horse did
pant. (I had also read that a horse's heart rate was about the same as
his respiration, so lots of the time I thought he was at 120 when his HR
was closer to 64, Is it any wonder I took so long to figure out what I'm
doing?) This horse only did one 50 and one 25. I retired him after some
hoof problems. Angie McGhee and Kaboot Herlong, (I finally got a
keeper!)
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Horse transport info wanted
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:13:36 -0800
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I need to transport a horse from northern Idaho to
southern California. Can someone recommend a
good, reputable horse transport company?
tia!
Steph
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From: Tivers <Tivers@aol.com>
Message-ID: <67d9cb04.34b15c87@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:19:48 EST
To: guest@endurance.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: A variety of questions
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In a message dated 98-01-05 14:23:17 EST, guest@endurance.net writes:
<< I need help with getting my draft cross truly fit. She's on the drafty
side, but has the world's best, unflappable temperament, and has no trouble
with competing the rides, soundness, soreness or hydration -- just with P and
R recoveries. Being such a big girl, I expect that, but am looking for hints.
We did lots of LSD work, hill work, and then interval training (trot-canter-
trot), but even by our last ride, she wasn't as fit as I'd hoped for. Any
ideas to get her really BUFF? Thoughts about feeding fat? She's a very easy
keeper -- smells food and gains weight! I'd almost decided to trade her in
for an Arab or cross, and then she ended up winning our division in a NATRC
ride this fall (two days/forty miles), and I'm enjoying her so much, it seems
silly!
>>
Some horses don't have the aquisition that others do. At least for a given
sport. Over time, though, a lot can be changed with conditioning. Already
you're doing a lot of the right things. Next year I'd build to a bigger base
and then be tougher with the exercise routine--just a little tougher. The year
following, even more.
Focus on the uphill works. You probably aren't taking the intervals fast
enough to induce much cardiovascular change--but that's ok if you can get the
job done with the hills. Are you monitoring heartrate? If so, what peaks do
you hit in your exercises and what's your working heartrate during a ride?
ti
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Reply-To: <URRacing@elknet.net>
From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Is There A Best Breed
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:43:44 -0600
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To everyone out there....
I think any breed of horse can be
successful in competitive riding..The horse should be judged as an
individual not as a breed. If the horse is condusive to that type of
athletic competition and is properly conditioned to do so he can be
successful. How do you determine what makes a good competitive horse.? Do
you have any standards to go by.? What do you look for in a horse to
determine if he has what it takes to be successful.? Size...weight ...
conformation....breed...heart....temperment....? Do certain breeds do
better because there are more of them out there competing.? Give the other
breeds a chance. Everyone should be heading towards the same goal
regardless of the breed.Competition should be fun..!! Offer help to others
like me who are new to the sport and want to learn all about it..
Elaine ....From Wi.
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From: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Reply-to: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 14:46:05 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Thorlo Socks
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.29 (Unregistered)
For those who need to know Thorlo socks, as well as many other endurance
items can be bought from
The Australian Connection
9274 Muir Way
Granite Bay, Ca. 95746
1-800-847-8521 ,for orders or catalogs,
916-791-1542 for more information,
Shop online at http://www.horse-shop.com/
white, grey, purple, teal, royal, charcoal $12.00 US
----------------------------------------------------
Raymond Santana
Network Operations
UC Davis Medical Center
Sacramento, CA
rtsantana@ucdavis.edu or
raymond.santana@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <724b91be.34b151fb@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:32:17 EST
To: ponies@foothills.eznet.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
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Pat--
Feel free to submit my post to the Paso organizations. I would wonder if the
show Pasos may be going the same route as the show Arabs and the show Quarter
Horses. I do remember Roanie as being a sounder individual (both
metabolically and physically) than others I have seen, and would wonder if
perhaps he is closer to what was originally bred. Good luck in trying to
breed a more "using" type of Paso while still preserving some breed type;
those of us breeding "using" Arabs that still look like classic Arabs fight
the same fight.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: Marinera <Marinera@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b86a4add.34b16def@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:04:02 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Peruvian Pasos..lengthy
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I have had over 30 years experience with Peruvian Pasos as a trail horse. I
think they are the best trail horse in the world. In the ten or so that I
have been involved with, with one exception which was not the horses fault, I
have never had one fall with me, they do not stumble, they do not shy, they
are eager and the exaggerated gait does not deprive them of energy except in
the case of highly nervous, high strung individuals (the prized "brio" of the
show ring). An Arabian Park horse is not as good a candidate for endurance
as a less showy one. Neither is a Peruvian with an exaggerated paso gait the
ideal trail horse. The gait is totally natural (my foals were pasoing within
an hour of birth) and the foot is lifted and planted down which in my opinion
eliminates the stumbling that other breeds can be prone to. My foundation
mare, *Marinera, died at age 30 and I have never respected any animal as much
as I did her. There is no worse thing to inflict upon a horse than an
ignorant enthusiastic rider. And that's what I was. I sorely abused this
horse by overriding and underfeeding. In the 60's the conventional wisdom was
to keep them lean and have a wet saddle blanket in the barn each night. And
that is what I did to a gallant animal. She finished the Tevis Cup twice,
once in 22nd position and once in 25th place. She finished 3rd in the Castle
Rock Challenge Ride and won the Best Condition award in a ride which included
Bezatal, the Fitzgerald Hyannis horses and a couple of Wendell Robie's. She
was the toughest horse I have ever had, but moldy hay brought on the heaves
and her endurance career was cut short, but not her trail riding days.
However, I do think she was unique to her breed and the eight foals she had
were never as good as she was. Her first foal, now 25 years old, is still
carrying me several times a week around the Santa Cruz Mountains. She is
sound and eager, but I would not have asked her to do a 50 mile endurance
ride. Another *Marinera daughter did a fifty miler at age 6. But my
preference for endurance is Arabians..they fall, they stumble, they spook,
but 9 out of 10 Arabians will get you to the finish line. I do not think that
is true of the Peruvians. I think the majority of them are too heavily
muscled to excel at endurance. But I believe there are more *Marineras out
there and I hope that the lucky person that has one enjoys the breed as much
as I have.
Julie Suhr
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To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: LEATHERS,ETC.
Message-ID: <19980106.051012.3502.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <d422040f.34b0dce7@aol.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 19:16:46 EST
On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 08:15:16 EST RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> writes:
>In a message dated 98-01-04 19:59:12 EST, you write:
>
><< I think Farnam sells those stirrup things that hold the leathers
> straight.
> >>
I had some stirrups from Ortho Flex that had a pivoting bracket at the
top that allowed you to set up the stirrup so that the stirrup hung
sideways while the leather lay flat. Sounds great, but it doesn't work!
Think about it. Rather than have the flat of the leather against your
leG, you get the edge of it. Much worse.
In reply to everything else, Barbara Daily (Alabama) had a Paso that
could fly. He won a 50. Didn't look much like one. 15 hands, low
action, looked like a rather plain Arabian racking to me. I saw three
other Pasos compete, all were pulled for being plum worn out at the 12
mile mark...let's see you do a bicycle road race on a mountain bike in
1st gear!. Too many RPMs
To the cowboy in tights...I've gotten so used to them, that the fellows
in jeans look like dudes. Just make sure you change after the race.
On how to improve recoveries on a big horse: SPONGE SPONGE SPONGE
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From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Is anyone out there
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:24:23 -0600
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Karen,
I have been trying to get
back to you.I'm still very new to this. I don't dare tell anyone what kind
of horses I have..!!!! I'll be run out of town before I have a chance to
get started....I did catch a list and printed it. Maybe I'll come down to
first one and observe. Keep in touch.....
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <URRacing@elknet.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Is There A Best Breed
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 16:20:30 -0800
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Well said. I hope this post generates as many responses as the PasoFino
thread. I have heard it said that the Arabian tends to have well sprung ribs
creating larger lung capacity. I have heard that the smaller horse handles
heat better. Certainly as matter of physics, the smaller the object of a
given shape the greater the surface area for eliminating heat. But does this
translate into a better endurance horse? What characteristics are most
important?
There are certainly more Arabs out there to choose from than say Peruvians -
perhaps 14,000 registered since the early 60's and of course many long dead.
I would suspect the Arab is on average a better endurance horse, but that
bias which is commonly held may be the reason Arabs are successful - riders
wanting to challenge for top ten won't chance another breed.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: urracing <urracing@elknet.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Monday, January 05, 1998 2:49 PM
Subject: Is There A Best Breed
>To everyone out there....
> I think any breed of horse can be
>successful in competitive riding..The horse should be judged as an
>individual not as a breed. If the horse is condusive to that type of
>athletic competition and is properly conditioned to do so he can be
>successful. How do you determine what makes a good competitive horse.? Do
>you have any standards to go by.? What do you look for in a horse to
>determine if he has what it takes to be successful.? Size...weight ...
>conformation....breed...heart....temperment....? Do certain breeds do
>better because there are more of them out there competing.? Give the other
>breeds a chance. Everyone should be heading towards the same goal
>regardless of the breed.Competition should be fun..!! Offer help to others
>like me who are new to the sport and want to learn all about it..
> Elaine ....From Wi.
>
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:57:11 -0600
To: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Saddles
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980105145250.006855d0@pop-in.ncsu.edu>
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They look like lovely saddles, and I was considering a third mortgage to
buy one, but my horse's back is wider than their extra-wide tree!!! I've
heard from several saddlers that they have a good concept, but just dont'
make the saddles wide enough for American Arabs.
chris paus & star
At 02:52 PM 1/5/98 -0500, Julie Coats wrote:
>Ok everyone I need an opinion. I am real interested in the
>Arabian Saddles Companys endurance saddle----Solstice Endurance.
>Anyone out there familiar with them? Before I get a second job
>to pay for this saddle I would appreciate any help.
>
>Julie R.Coats, A.H.T.
>Cardiac Research Technician
>NCSU College of Veterinary Medicine
>julie_coats@ncsu.edu
>919 829-4325
>fax 919 515-9427
>
>
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 17:05:39 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Duncan Fletcher <dfletche@gte.net>
CC: rstai@flash.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paso Fino
References: <01bd196d$13c2b8e0$LocalHost@duncanfl>
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Duncan Fletcher wrote:
>
> Sounds like the horse was doing the fino fino (classic fino). Many of the
> show horses are trained to do this to the exclusion of other gaits. If the
> horse does a good paso corto or paso largo, that won't be a problem. I have
> trail ridden with a couple of paso finos that do well. I also looked at
> purchasing one that had a great fino fino gait. Needless to say I didn't buy
> it - it needs to kept in the show ring.
>
> Duncan Fletcher
> dfletche@gte.net
>
Yes, now that you mention it, this horse did show as well, so maybe he
was just too much of a gaited PF to also be able to do distance. If
Patty O'Rourke is lurking on the list, I think she breeds PFs and also
rides endurance, though I don't know if Mr. RoanMan is a PF or not.
Susan
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:22:57 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Re: Is There A Best Breed
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Duncan,
I would suspect that the Arab is a "better choice" for endurance in the
hotter climates - such as the US. I would suspect that in the cooler
climates of say England this advantage would not be as great. The Arab
evolved in the hotter climates of the world and hence has evolved to be
better able to handle the heat.
Of course the Paso was developed in the hot climates of Central and South
America, but it has not been around for nearly as long.
But we are getting more horses out into endurance and that is good, very good.
Later
Truman
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From: MBowers472 <MBowers472@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6bdc3b69.34b18916@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:29:55 EST
To: Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Horses for sale/ info on Tevis
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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I know of two, 4 yr. old arab geldings, not registered that are for sale.
These horses were raised on a 200+ acre farm and have had no hoof care,
worming, etc. yet apear to be in good condition. They are halter broke, and
were put up and fed during weaning, and handled at that time. If interested,
contact vonita Bowers @ mbowers472@aol.com
Does anyone out there know if a Missouri foxtrotter has completed the Tevis
in the past? Does anyone have an arab foxtrotter cross? I have a buyer
looking for one.
Thanks, Vonita
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:43:28 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801060143.RAA15368@fsr.com>
Subject: Ride Foods
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Anne McBee Kennedy
Email: ajsgas@imt.net
Hi, good to read everyone's good comments here. What is this "one pot gourmet"? Where did you get it? My favorite ride food is a Honey Peanut Balance bar. These bars are a total balanced meal or snack and they never upset my tummy.
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Nick's post - Death Valley - Long
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 17:50:06 -0800
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Nick couldn't post to Ridecamp, so asked me to forward
this. As usual, Nick's stories are great reading :)
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: Warhol, Nick [SMTP:Nick.Warhol@kla-tencor.com]
Sent: Monday, January 05, 1998 1:21 PM
To: 'ridecamp'; 'steph'; 'judy'; 'endurowest'; bill; caballist; dcnsurv; =
dick; jean; jetmec; kds; lb; margie; marilyn; marion; pripleas; rita; =
rjr; sally A; sally P; sam C; susan; tom S; wildhair
Subject: Death Valley - Long
Death Valley Encounter 1997 (Or- how I spent my
Christmas vacation in the desert)
Hi everyone- Happy new year! We're back from the annual
Death Valley Encounter 4 day multiday ride. This was Judy's and my
forth trip down there in the past five years, and are we ever glad we
went. This year's ride was an all new DVE, which made the event about a
thousand percent easier for the always hard working crews. (I've been a
crew a couple of times on the old ride. Talk about a drive-a-thon!)
Ride Manager Jackie and Jim Bumgardner started the ride from their house
in Ridgecrest this year, but I don't think they were quite prepared for
the cold weather on Friday night. It was so cold in Ridgecrest I could
not believe it! There was about a half inch of ice on the water
buckets, which required a pipe to break. Lucky for us the weather
warmed up (?) to above freezing for the duration of the event.
We drove down from the bay area with our endurance buddy and
long time endurance rider Marrilyn R. Russell and her fiesty mare
Cresta. Jennifer Dzakowicz brought her gray gelding Sqoundrel along as
well. Lots of folks from the bay area were in attendance as usual- the
incredible Julie and Bob Shur, Beth and Scot Wachenheim, Hugh and Gloria
Vandorford, (Hugh and I walked the last 12 miles of day 3 on foot
together 2 years ago), Ron and Ruth Waltenspeil, Robert and Mellisa
Ribley, Judy Ethridge, Joyce, Dennis, and Jennifer Souza, ridecampers
Becky Hackworth, Jim Mitchell and family, Jennifer Heim, and Karen
Chaton from Nevada. Raimy and Cynthia-Peticolas Stroud made the long
voyage from Oregon, and my Tevis riding partner Stephanie
Schroder-Teeter and her hubby John made the trip from Idaho to hit the
desert. Judy was a bit on the nervous side all week since this was once
again another comeback ride for her nutty Appy Warpaint. He was only
able to do three rides all last year due to all of his unbelievable
unrelated injuries, but he seemed to be as sound as he has been since
his colic surgery almost four years ago. I was depressed since my horse
Shatta whacked himself in the leg somehow and came up gimpy a few weeks
before the ride. He was 10 for 10 last year, and I was looking forward
to the DVE since that's the ride he injured himself on two years ago.
Much to my delight Jackie Bumgardner came to my rescue and offered me a
ride on one of her horses. She set me up with a 12 year old Arabian
gelding names Sarya Gobask, also known as "Charlie." He's from Wyoming
and looked like a wooly mammoth due to his furry coat. I rode him a
little on the day before the ride and wondered what I was in for- he was
a bit of a wild thing, complete with little bucks, lots of jigging, and
a serious case of "I GOTTA catch that horse in front of me." Jackie
told me he had a hard mouth- uh, you might as well have put a bit on a
concrete fence post. No question he's a powerful guy, so lets get
started and see what happened.=20
DAY 1- The start was a nice easy walk up a dirt road
form the Bumgardner's ranch and out into the desert. Funny- Charlie
Horse was walking along nicely with the other horses. I rode with
Marilyn and Jennifer as we headed out into the desert. This riding
across the open desert is so cool- I grew up in Las Vegas riding dirt
bikes, and I just can't get over how neat it is to be in the dez on a
horse. I noticed immediately that Charlie was a different animal- it
took him about two miles to relax and turn into a super-horse. We
turned east and headed across the rolling desert towards the infamous
town of Trona. There were well placed water stops along the trail
which was marked quite well. We had to negotiate a really nasty, steep,
rocky downhill which required careful walking, but once clear of that
and across the railroad tracks we turned left and began the 7 mile trot
down a nice road to the vet check. Judy was fighting Warpaint at the
back of the pack the whole way and caught up to us just as we arrived at
the check. We all made it through with no problem and headed back out
up a wash heading for the actual town of Trona. We had to ride right
through the middle of town- as I was walking across a paved street an
old lady came running out of a house with a can of 7-up for me. "Here,
this is for you!" she said. "I have water for your horse, he's so
beautiful!" That was neat. The people of this sleepy town don't have a
lot to do, and the ride coming through was quite an event for them. I
got separated from my riding partners when I thought they were behind
me, but it turned out to be Julie and Bob. I went on ahead on an
incredibly strong Charlie horse who would not spook, shy, or even be
concerned with anything! Very different for me, since Shatta is a
spook-a-matic, but I liked it. We trotted along behind the town and
turned up a long uphill sandwash which went for a long time. After what
seemed like a few miles we turned down hill into another wash and headed
towards the finish. After some nice cross country and a 3 mile road we
finished at a place called Valley Wells. I finished in the twenties
with a very strong horse, but was even more happy to see Judy come in
with Warpaint sound. Her plan was to do the first day, give him a day
off, ride the third, then decide about the fourth. Marilyn and Jennifer
made it in as well. Some of the riders at the rear of the pack got lost
after dark, but eventually everyone made it in safely.
DAY 2- Jackie told everyone this was the toughest day,
and it would be the one to skip if you were not going to do all four
days. She was correct. It started out easy enough- we trotted a few
miles, climbed up a nice wash, rode over some up and down rocky trails
which climbed up over the Slate range, and ended up down in a valley
which led to a water stop at the vet check of the old day four ride,
just below Goler canyon. Now all we had to do was trot 7 miles down a
road to the vet check at 30 miles, and then do a 25 mile loop in the
mountains. Sounds easy enough. I arrived at the vet check at 10:50 am
for an hour stop. Unfortunately my crew got messed up on the time frame
and was not expecting me that early. No problem- I was able to bum some
lunch for me from friends, but more importantly Jackie was there and had
plenty of stuff for Charlie Horse to eat. He's an eating machine- just
what you need out here in this VERY desolate terrain. I can't for the
life of me imagine what those wild horses survive on out here. After a
nice break we left just before eleven am- lots of time to do this
mountain loop. Uh- huh. We started out walking up a steep climb, and
just never stopped climbing. The valley floor was somewhere around 2000
feet- the summit of where we went was almost 8000. This climb was by
far the biggest climb me or anyone else on the ride have ever been up.
It never ended! We trudged up that thing for what seemed like three
hours, knowing full well we had to go back down again later. There was
a nice spring about four/fifths of the way up the climb- good thing,
since we were all giving our horses our drinking water on the way up.
When we finally got to the top it was a sight to behold- a huge high
desert meadow that was a couple square miles across. It was being
guarded by a wild donkey who kept charging at us across the meadow,
screaming for all he was worth. We trotted across the meadow, climbed
up a small rise near some old mines, dropped into another neat meadow,
and started the next climb. The next climb? Yep- more climbing, this
time up a long grade covered with snow. The horses started getting a
little bit balky as we kept going up. I was off Charlie leading him up
most of this stuff- as a result my toes were frozen from the snow.
Riders were getting a little cranky as we finally hit the summit- the
top of the world. Not many people on this planet have seen that view of
Death Valley from up there, but there were about 30 more people added to
the list this day. There was the infamous Sparrow up there with his
truck and the much needed water for both horses and riders. He said the
horses were averaging between 2 and 3 gallons each. Now we began the
trip down- as in like 12 miles of it. The first 3 or 4 were on foot
once again, since it was just too slippery to ride through that stuff.
Snow, Ice, water, mud, rock and steep downhill- interesting footing to
say the least. I kept myself amused by eating the wonderful pine nuts
off the pinon pine trees which lined the road, trying to ignore my
frozen toes. (I love my trail runners, but they are designed to keep
your feet cool, not warm) I also kept reminding myself how glad I was I
was not doing this section in the dark, which some riders did. (Egad!)
We finally dropped down low enough to be out of the snow when the road
became rideable, but it was very steep and rocky all the way down. I
didn't want to trot Charlie down that stuff, so I hopped off and we
walked and ran all the way down the 9 miles or so. It began getting
dark as I worked my way down the mountain- at least there was no way to
get lost. About 4 miles from the finish the road / wash we were on
turned into a stream thanks to these wild springs up there. Now my feet
were really soaked. It got dark, but we just kept on jogging down the
hill, splashing through the water as we went. Charlie is a superb horse
- he really knows his job, and would just follow along down behind me at
whatever pace I wanted to go. Now It's pitch black and I'm finally able
to get back on Charlie. Ever been in the desert with zero moon? Way
dark. We trot the final couple of miles and hit the finish at 6:00pm-
in ninth place! The winner finished at something like 3:45. Special
mention goes to fellow Internet buddy Kat Swiggart for riding drag and
helping the last five riders get down off that incredible mountain.
What an event! It was one of the most spectacular rides I have even
been on. Day two of the 97 DVE goes down in history as a true test of
what an endurance ride is. Special congratulations go out to all of
those determined riders who completed the thing. There was a big
spaghetti dinner waiting for riders at the bottom- I don't know if pasta
ever tasted so good!
Day 3- Much better! Charlie still feels good as we
trot out along a nice flat road on the way to Indian Ranch for a water
stop. Judy is back on Warpaint who feels like he had not been ridden
yet. She goes sailing by Steph, Johh, and I as she tries to keep him
trotting. (nope- no chance) This day is an easier ride which just sort
of wanders across the desert on the way from the start at Ballarat to
Panimant Springs. Nothing special happens during the morning, except
that Charlie is tripping a bit from his new easyboots on front, and
Steph's big Orlov Bunchuck (what a great name) develops a strange
cramp after we leave a water stop. Judy and I go on ahead while Steph
gives her big gray horse a massage, but we only get as far as something
called "Rocky Road." Yeah, right, something more rocky than the rest of
this place? Yep. It requires walking off the horse for about 6 miles
down to the valley floor. That took a while, but the water at the
bottom was a welcome site. We went cross country for a while before we
entered a long, deep up hill sand wash which was also very slow going.
Charlie was slowing down a bit, but plugged along up the long climb into
the vet check. It took another forever to get there, but once we left
lunch it was 5 miles of downhill wash to the road! Turn left, trot 11
miles. Long, Long, trot. We made good time on the flats, but not as
good as Judy. She finally decided to let Warpaint go since the footing
was good enough to boogie. She and her Appy went by Melissa Ribley and
I on that road like one of the many F-15 jets that buzz the desert out
here. See ya Warpaint! I watched his dust cloud disappear miles in
front of me. We finally hit highway 190 and turned left for the final
trot uphill to the finish. Charlie was still moving along, but I
noticed he was really slowing down, and I had to ask him to trot the
final couple of miles. We walked in at dusk in 18th or so. Charlie
passed the vet check fine, but I could tell he was tired. I decided to
let him eat and see how he looked, but when I got up at midnight and
took him for a walk I could not get him to trot on the lead rope
willingly. Nope- that's enough for this wonderful horse. There was no
way I was going to ask him to go back out there if he did not have that
spring in his step. I was done after three really fun rides.
Day 4- Crewing again! Judy got going at the back of
the pack again, since her horse felt like he had not been ridden yet.
Day 4 was an out and back ride that goes up a long canyon, then descends
into the town of Darwin. A water stop here and the riders took off
across some perfect desert out to the lunch stop at 25 miles. Steph
decided Bunchuck deserved a day off as well, so the two of us went out
to help out our riders. Steph's husband John was up in the top ten on
their superb horse Squeak. (HCC Saccuro- spelled that wrong, yes?) I
helped out a few riders, including the infamous Bob Edwards from Arroyo
Grande, Ca. He's the guy I bought Shatta from almost 3 years ago. Bob
is amazing- the guy has to be over 70, and is still out there riding and
doing ride and ties. He ended up in fourth today on a mare who's a half
sister to my horse. We were buzzed by the jets a couple of times- very
unnerving for the horses to say the least. Judy made it in with
Warpaint pulling all the way. John left the check in 6th place! Steph
worked doing P&Rs until it was time to head back to camp. We made it
back in time to see John take 5th place, and to top it off he won BC!
She says he's hooked now. There was one almost serious thing which
happened on the trail a few miles from the finish. One of the juniors
riding with Cynthia Peticolas-Stroud stopped to take a rest room break
when her horse got away from her. Judy and another woman were walking
down a steep hill with a cliff to the low side when they see the runaway
horse coming at a full run straight towards them! It was not going to
stop, so they moved apart as best they could as the horse split the gap
between them at a full run. Very scary! The horse was stopped further
down the road, and was re-united with its rider who went on to finish.
I was at the finish line just after dark waiting for Judy when I could
tell by the sound of a jigging horse on pavement it was her. Here he
is, still wanting to jam after the three days. The good news is he
finished sound- At long last it looks like he might be back. =20
After the ride there was a gala new years eve party and
awards celebration in Panament springs which was quite a show. There
was dancing, party hats, a live band, and yes, there was drinking. (OK,
so I got snockered for my once a year party. It was fun!) Jackie
gives out a special award each year to the rider who performs the most
honorable feat, or to someone who gives of themselves in a special way.
The vote was unanimous for Kat Swiggart. She was the drag rider who
really helped the last group of riders make it down the mountain on day
two. She gave them food, water, grain for their horses, she led some of
the horses down the snow all while keeping a cheerful attitude.
Everyone tip their helmet visors to Kat now. We had a great vacation,
met some new friends (my two new buddies from Salt Lake), and got to see
some truly amazing desert terrain. A lot of things were learned during
the week, and the next DVE should be even better as a result- the
weather could not have been better. Special thanks go out to Jackie
Bumgardner who not only went through the effort to put on this ride, but
also let me ride her Charlie horse. He's for sale- anyone looking for a
truly wonderful horse?
Nick Warhol
Hayward, Ca.=20
r the Slate range, and ended up down in a valley
which led to a water stop at the vet check of the old day four ride,
just below Goler canyon. Now all we had to do was trot 7 miles down a
road to the vet check at 30 miles, and then do a 25 mile loop in the
mountains. Sounds easy enough. I arrived at the vet check at5225 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002061 06454313442 0013103 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from speedy.proaxis.com (speedy.proaxis.com [198.68.7.14]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA17907 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:29:50 -0800 (PST)
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From: Michael & Lauren Kennedy <kpa@proaxis.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Horse size
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:36:01 -0800
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Some very influential Arabian race horses were under 15 hands:
Kontiki 14.3H
*Wiking 14.3H
Monarch AH 14.3H
Wielki Raz 14.2 1/2 H
(just to name a few)
Lauren Kennedy
Kennedy's Performance Arabians
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 21:35:45, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: juniors
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My daughter has unsuccessfully tried to mail Amber and Lissa. Please, if
there are any juniors who want to exchange e-mail write...also if you are
going to the convention
"ANY CUTE BOYS??"
Louise Burton for Amber Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
OK
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: big horse
Message-ID: <19980105.215137.4439.2.esppatty@juno.com>
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty A Lambert)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:49:23 EST
Recoveries - are you clipping the horse's coat at all? With a part draft
I'd assume there's a lot of hair on her, holding in heat & slowing
recoveries. Try clipping the entire neck & shoulder area; then if needed,
extend the clipping to the belly, flanks, insides of legs. Some would say
clip the entire horse except for the saddle area. I don't go that far,
but you may need to. Good luck.
Patty Lambert
8
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty A Lambert)
Date: Mon, 05 Jan 19985228 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002330 06454317427 0013114 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA20204 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:03:46 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:03:46 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801060303.TAA20204@fsr.com>
Subject: Death of Z
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Becke Grams
Email: BeckeG@aol.com
Linda Sherrill just lost her horse Z to an unknown illness. Many of you know Linda from AERC conventions and from riding with her in Michigan and "out" west when she lived there. Z went down last weekend. His hind end was disconnected from his front end. They feared it was EPM but at this time they still don't know.
Linda figured there was trouble when Z would go into his stall and lay down and eat. Z will receive his 1000 mile award this weekend at the UMECRA banquet and from Great Lakes Distance Riding Assoc.
As you can guess, Linda & her husband Russ and daughter Amy are not taking the death of Z well. They were all partners on the trail. May Z travel over the rainbow and gallop forever.
Just thought you might like to know.
Becke and PJ can't wait to ride
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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 19:11:21 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801060311.TAA20834@fsr.com>
Subject: Death of Z
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Becke Grams
Email: BeckeG@aol.com
Linda Sherrill just lost her horse Z to an unknown illness. Many of you know Linda from AERC conventions and from riding with her in Michigan and "out" west when she lived there. Z went down last weekend. His hind end was disconnected from his front end. They feared it was EPM but at this time they still don't know.
Linda figured there was trouble when Z would go into his stall and lay down and eat. Z will receive his 1000 mile award this weekend at the UMECRA banquet and from Great Lakes Distance Riding Assoc.
As you can guess, Linda & her husband Russ and daughter Amy are not taking the death of Z well. They were all partners on the trail. May Z travel over the rainbow and gallop forever.
Just thought you might like to know.
Becke and PJ can't wait to ride
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:12:50 -0600
To: "Budler, Cindy" <natcon@afrox.boc.com>,
"'ENDURANCE NET'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Helmets
In-Reply-To: <c=ZA%a=_TELKOM400%p=AFROX%l=SRV_MIS05-980105105134Z-4347@s
rv-mis05.afrox.boc.com>
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Cindy,
You should relate your experience to Horse & Rider magazine. They are doing
a survey about helmets and whether they should be mandatory.
The cowgirl editorial writers are decidedly biased against helmets. I wrote
in response, but don't think they've used my letter.
I was a cowgirl type too. A rough tough barrel racer as a kid who was
invicible (what kid isn't???) I never used a helmet until I joined a
distance riding association. I did it mostly t fit in.
But, last summer on a training ride, I didn't duck enough under a low
branch. I felt the tiniest tap on my head and didn't think anything about it.
Later I looked at my helmet and it was broken. I guess it did its job and
protected my head, eh? I'm a believer now.
I figure broken legs and arms will heal, but scrambled brains are another
matter.
chris paus & star
At 12:51 PM 1/5/98 +0200, Budler, Cindy wrote:
>Hi all, Hope the festive season was good for all and that 1998 will
>bring success,happiness and most of all no problems with the equines!!
>
>I must relate my experiences yesterday as the only reason I am still
>here is because of my Troxel!!. I rode my Arab out on a training ride
>yesterday morning and he spooked at a snake in the grass. I was thrown
>over his shoulder but ended up with my left wrist tangled in the reins
>and was dragged at high speed for about 50 m. His right front hoof
>caught me just above the right temple(on the hat) and took about an 2
>inch chunk out of the hat.I also have a perfect hoofprint on the left
>temple of the hat!!. The back hooves have left tattoo marks all over my
>lower body and the ground has finished off what was left. The helmet has
>about 3 cracks in it , but because of the way it is designed to absorb
>the shock I didn't even have a headache or concussion. I cannot
>understand how even here in SA the endurance bodies are not prepared to
>make hats compulsory in rides!!. So ---- lessons learned ....
>1 Always wear a hat ( and in my case a Troxel)
>2 Get shorter reins for the short necked,high carriage Arabs!!)
>3 Wear clothes that absorb a bit more of the damage from landing on the
>ground (summer wear is not great to go skiing in)
>
>Regards from SA
>
>Cindy
>Afrox National Contracts Department
>P.O.Box 879 , Germiston,1400
>Tel 011 871-1006
>Fax 011 873-4623
>E-mail : natcon@afrox.boc.com
>
>
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Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:44:38 -0800
From: paddi <seamstob@telusplanet.net>
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Nikki Reynolds again!
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Sorry to post this to ridecamp. Your email is still not working better
talk to your server again.
Paddi
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3cf8ac18.34b1a6b0@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:35:57 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Saddles
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In a message dated 98-01-05 20:22:13 EST, paus@micoks.net writes:
<< They look like lovely saddles, and I was considering a third mortgage to
buy one, but my horse's back is wider than their extra-wide tree!!! I've
heard from several saddlers that they have a good concept, but just dont'
make the saddles wide enough for American Arabs.
chris paus & star
At 02:52 PM 1/5/98 -0500, Julie Coats wrote:
>Ok everyone I need an opinion. I am real interested in the
>Arabian Saddles Companys endurance saddle----Solstice Endurance. >>
That's why Sharon Saare came out with even wider trees in the past few years.
I have fit more and more arabs witrh wide flat backs.
teddy
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id rma011435; Mon Jan 5 21:59:33 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: long backs & arabs...questions
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Happy 98 to all!
1. What is the definition of a "long backed" horse? Does anyone have
specific measurements for me? Don't the different breeds have a
different number of ribs and vertibrates? What is considered long
backed for an arab?
2. Are arabs being bred for a longer back for the dressage ring? If
so, why? Is this just a U.S.A. thing?
These conversations have all come up and started my wheels spinning.
Especially when it comes to long backs, arabs, long distances, massage
and chiropractic adjustments...
PLEASE cc: me if sending back to the list since I'm in the digests.
Thanks!
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab..."you're gonna do what to me tomorrow!")
Pt.Reyes, CA
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <895de9bb.34b1b5a9@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:40:04 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Helmets
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I have to relate a funny story I heard once about helmets. A lady was
shopping for a helmet, and told the clerk that she had $100,000 invested in
her head. He asked her if she had had a head injury. She replied, "No, I
went to college."
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
To: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Equine Conditioning Plateaus?
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:14:01 -0700
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Human athletes often experience "plateaus" during their conditioning =
efforts, where their rate of performance increase levels off. My =
question is do our horses typically experience the same leveling period? =
This weekend I was reviewing my notes from our last several months, and =
noticed that Star's speed has steadily increased over the various =
sections of our usual conditioning course, and the rate of increase has =
been fairly constant during that period. Her heart rates have remained =
pretty constant all along. I have been expecting a leveling off a some =
point, but don't see any indications that it might be happening. I am =
reasonably sure (as I can be with this horse) that there has to be a =
"peak". Judging from my experience with her I would guess she isn't =
close to that point. I just don't know what to expect.=20
Any thoughts, ideas, opinions?
Thanks
Bruce & Star (Save the fancy walk for later, I want to canter)
Emmett, ID
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: 2000 mile XP ride in 2001
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:02:55 -0800
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At the Death Valley awards banquet, Dave Nichols announced that he's
going to host a ride from St. Joe, Missouri to Sacramento, CA in the
year 2001. It will follow the Pony Express route. Beginning on June 15
in Missouri, and arriving in Sacramento on August 15. Sounds like the
format will be around 250 miles per week - 5 days on, 2 days off.
...stay tuned!
Steph
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <10eedb00.34b1d2fc@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:45:13 EST
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...questions
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Hi, Kimberly--
To address your questions about backs, let me answer your second question
first. No, Arabs are not being bred with long backs for dressage--it is very
important for a dressage horse to round his back in order to properly carry
himself, so the same desirable conformation applies to them as it does to
endurance horses. The long back thing comes from breeding for a particular
look in the halter ring. Unfortunately, all too many horses on the endurance
trail are the castoffs from the show breeding programs--hence, the near
epidemic we are seeing of back problems. No, I don't think this is just
happening in the USA--I see the "look" in Arabian publications in other
countries, and certainly saw the same problem with the Arabs I saw while
endurance riding and vetting a ride in Germany.
As to measurements, length of back is not a simple thing to which one can put
a tape measure. It all relates to the rest of the horse. First, imagine
that the horse's body is made up of three circles, one for the shoulder
region, one for the back and barrel region, and one for the hip region. These
circles should all be equal. To achieve this, one must have many factors in
the right proportion. First, one must have a long, well laid-back shoulder.
Second, one must have a short back and strong loin. Third, one must have a
long, strong hip that ties into the loin well. If any of these factors are
out of kilter, one finds that the shoulder and hip "circles" are squashed into
upright ovals and the back-barrel "circle" is elongated into a horizontal
oval. The next measurement one looks at is the back in relationship to the
underline. When measured from the withers to the point of the hip, the back
should be considerably shorter than the measurement from the elbow to the
stifle. A horse with a short back but a corresponding short underline has
these measurements because of an inadequate hip and shoulder, and will often
interfere. Not so for the horse with the appropriate long shoulder and hip to
go with the short back. The third measurement that is worthwhile is to
compare the length from point of nose to withers with the measurement from
withers to tailhead--these two distances should be approximately equal for the
horse to be balanced.
This system is not just an Arab system--it applies well to proportionate
individuals of virtually all light breeds, despite their other differences in
appearance.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a6767537.34b1d3ca@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 01:48:39 EST
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...questions
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Hi again, Kimberly--
In my previous post, I neglected to answer your question about numbers of
vertebrae and ribs. While it is true that Arabs have a tendency to have one
fewer vertebrae, it is not completely consistent. You will see Arabs with the
full complement, and other breeds that are minus one. It is just that the
smaller number is somewhat more common in Arabs. Also, the number of
vertebrae does not necessarily correlate to the length of the back, as there
is some variation in the length of the vertebrae themselves between different
individuals.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: Vickie Smith <kiwana@sover.net>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: ride food
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 02:12:31 -0500
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I know we've done a great job of convering horse nutrition before, =
during and after rides. How about riders? I am diabetic taking insulin =
and wondering about how to keep me alert and coping. (I suffered an =
"incident" on a competitive 50miler where I became disoriented and =
couldn't really function. Luckily, my horse is a very sane and smart =
Appaloosa who took me to the next stop!) I have a tough time with the =
"juggling act" of deciding how much insulin for how much exercise and =
how much food (and what type) to complete the equation. Would really =
appreciate any help that anyone can offer as I ride alone and have no =
crew. (Hubby keeeps saying he'll come but has found an excuse twice and =
was just in the way needing constant supervision and instructions on the =
one ride he attended while thinking he was "crewing" for me.. Yes, I =
gave him some excellent tips gleaned from previous ridecamp digests so =
we have some hope for the future!)
Vickie Smith
Lincoln, Vermont
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 03:42:25 -0500
From: "Sandra B. Terp" <hotspots@fast.net>
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Organization: (Neigh-Per-Say)
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: amish blankets
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Mary Coleman sells a Nylon shell winter weight blanket. I sell the
Cordura blankets which after a few washings do need to be
re-waterproofed. I use Thompsons and a spray bottle (2 coats). The
trick is to convince yourself that your horses clothes (blankets) don't
need to be washed every week. I wash mine in the spring before I put
them away. In the winter I will use one of the mud brushes and brush
off the big stuff before I take it off the horse.
Sandy and 'the crew' at (Neigh-Per-Say) in NJ
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From: "Budler, Cindy" <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
To: "'ENDURANCE NET'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Ridgeway system
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 13:45:44 +0200
Return-Receipt-To: <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
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Hi all,
A mini type of survey for all.
We are considering trying to get our committee to adopt this system for
vetting pulses. We have obtained some info on how it works but really
need ammunition on success(or not) of this system, wether the vets see
it as a good sytem (with reasons),rider acceptability of it and anything
else you can think of. Please spend some time giving me your views so we
can prepare for the worst. If you can give me some contact names or
e-mail addresses of people who run rides, vets or AERC etc members whom
I can contact privately. Please e-mail me at natcon@afrox.boc.com with
any help at all.
Much appreciated,
Cindy Budler
Afrox National Contracts Department
P.O.Box 879 , Germiston,1400
Tel 011 871-1006
Fax 011 873-4623
E-mail : natcon@afrox.boc.com
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:55:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "LYNN M. Crespo" <lynn@hpd.acast.nova.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Respiration rate and thumps
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Just had to jump in here and offer a little physiology lesson. With
regards to the question as to whether or not a high respiration rate could
induce thumps the answer is yes.
When the respiration rate is high carbon dioxide is being eliminated from
the body. In the blood some carbon dioxide is converted to carbonic acid.
This acid helps to balance the pH of the body. When carbon dioxide is
quickly eliminated the body is losing its natural acid and becomes
alkaline, in other words a respiratory alkalosis has been induced.
A key point is that when alkalosis is induced, potassium in the
bloodstream is shifted to the inside of the cells, so that even though no
total potassium is really lost from the body it is in the wrong place, and
the metabolic consequences are the same as if the horse was deficient in
potassium, in other words hypokalemic.
In addition, the change in serum pH also affects the binding of calcium in
the bloodstream also complicating the situation. The net effect is a
respiratory induced clinical situation presenting as thumps.
When respiratory rates induce these changes in the pH of the blood, there
will be compensatory changes in how the kidneys operate to try to
normalize the situation. Any change in pH, whether it originates in the
lungs or the kidneys will lead to other compensations.
Thumps (synchronous diaphragmatic flutter) has been induce experimentally
in animals through either making them potassium deficient, or by changing
their pH. By the way, when horses do become potassium deficient, the loss
of electrolytes will also induce a change in pH, making them alkalotic.
It's the chicken and the egg story, potassium deficiency leads to
alkalosis, and alkalosis leads to potassium deficiency. In endurance
horses there are both metabolic and respiratory influences occuring
simultaneously.
To manage the situation electrolytes are an absolute necessity, and for
those horses that are rapid breathers or panters, slowing their
respiratory rate is also important.
Lynn
L. M. Crespo, Ph.D.
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Pharmacology
Nova-Southeastern University
lynn@hpd.acast.nova.edu
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <589e77e3.34b24e40@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:31:09 EST
To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...questions
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Teddy--
I did not say that the long backs are the reason that the horses in question
are castoffs--on the contrary, the long backs are the PRODUCT of the show-ring
look, and our riders get them in the package when they buy these horses. Most
are castoffs because of other reasons, like head too plain, not enough chrome,
or just plain overbreeding to "popular" sires and then discovering that there
isn't as much show market as people thought.
I could not agree more that you get what you pay for--I am pleased that
endurance riders as a group strive to learn, and although they may enter the
sport on horses with less-than-desirable conformation or metabolism, most ask
questions and do better the next time around.
Sometimes people get lucky with a "Cash" or a "Rio", but often it is because
the people selling them cheap have no idea what they have--just that they
aren't "showy." (Yes, Valerie and Becky "made" these horses, too, but they
wouldn't have been able to do it without some basic material to work with--it
takes both ends of the equation to get that sort of success--would agree that
neither horse would have realized his potential with a lesser rider, either.)
I don't have the "hands-on" experience with "Cash" that I do with "Rio" but
must say that "Rio" is an extremely well balanced and well built horse, and
also has a pedigree with several family lines that have been noted for their
metabolic capabilities. No surprises there...
Heidi
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8e6bdd23.34b24b7e@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:19:24 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, PLOUGH1@IX.Netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...questions
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In a message dated 98-01-06 02:26:22 EST, CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com writes:
<< Unfortunately, all too many horses on the endurance
trail are the castoffs from the show breeding programs--hence, the near
epidemic we are seeing of back problems. >>
I disagree..that MAY have been the case many years ago. The show ring judges
are looking for something different that we are. Form and function are not
very well considered in the show ring. Distance horses may be the "cast-offs",
but not because of the long backs..more likely because of the using
conformation which is NOT the desired "look" in the show ring.
There are many breeders out there, most of whom are NOT "using" horsemen as we
define it. Popularity and show ring ribbons are bred.
The time has come for distance riders to recognize that you "get what you pay
for". Get a cheap arab "castoff" from a breeder and maybe you will be lucky
enough to get a good hrose. BUT, now we see an increase in responsible
breeding from people who actually try to produce "using" horses. It takes
time and money to raise a horse from conception to riding age. Recognize that
it still costs over $1000 per year to raise a horse properly (feeding,
innoculations, trimming, shoes, handling, training, etc.)
I have had many a frustrated potential buyer call and say they have spent
thousands of collars in air fare/travel and vetting expenses to find a good
horse. If you really want a good one, spend the time and dollars. It will
eliminate the heartache of problems down the road. "Cash and Rio" horses are
MADE by their riders, not necessarily bought. Use your brain and good
judgement. If a horse is $500, there is a reason for it. EVERY horse has a
fault, BUT, every horse has his assets as well. Weigh the differences....
Teddy
gree..that MAY have been the case many years ago. The show ring judges
are looking for something different that we are. Form and function are not
very well considered in the show ring. Distance horses may be the "cas5245 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000006556 06454452763 0013134 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from gateway.wvi.com (root@gateway.wvi.com [204.119.27.10]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19731 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 08:03:58 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:14:37 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: "LYNN M. Crespo" <lynn@hpd.acast.nova.edu>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respiration rate and thumps
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Hi Lynn,
Does an elevated respiration rate due to thermoregualtory needs have the
same effect as described in your post quoted below?
Ramey and Cynthia Peticolas-Stroud
Cascade Endurance Center
Lyons, Oregon
LYNN M. Crespo wrote:
>
> Just had to jump in here and offer a little physiology lesson. With
> regards to the question as to whether or not a high respiration rate could
> induce thumps the answer is yes.
>
> When the respiration rate is high carbon dioxide is being eliminated from
> the body. In the blood some carbon dioxide is converted to carbonic acid.
> This acid helps to balance the pH of the body. When carbon dioxide is
> quickly eliminated the body is losing its natural acid and becomes
> alkaline, in other words a respiratory alkalosis has been induced.
>
> A key point is that when alkalosis is induced, potassium in the
> bloodstream is shifted to the inside of the cells, so that even though no
> total potassium is really lost from the body it is in the wrong place, and
> the metabolic consequences are the same as if the horse was deficient in
> potassium, in other words hypokalemic.
>
> In addition, the change in serum pH also affects the binding of calcium in
> the bloodstream also complicating the situation. The net effect is a
> respiratory induced clinical situation presenting as thumps.
>
> When respiratory rates induce these changes in the pH of the blood, there
> will be compensatory changes in how the kidneys operate to try to
> normalize the situation. Any change in pH, whether it originates in the
> lungs or the kidneys will lead to other compensations.
>
> Thumps (synchronous diaphragmatic flutter) has been induce experimentally
> in animals through either making them potassium deficient, or by changing
> their pH. By the way, when horses do become potassium deficient, the loss
> of electrolytes will also induce a change in pH, making them alkalotic.
> It's the chicken and the egg story, potassium deficiency leads to
> alkalosis, and alkalosis leads to potassium deficiency. In endurance
> horses there are both metabolic and respiratory influences occuring
> simultaneously.
>
> To manage the situation electrolytes are an absolute necessity, and for
> those horses that are rapid breathers or panters, slowing their
> respiratory rate is also important.
>
> Lynn
>
> L. M. Crespo, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor and Chair
> Department of Pharmacology
> Nova-Southeastern University
>
> lynn@hpd.acast.nova.edu
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:22:40 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...questions
>I don't have the "hands-on" experience with "Cash" that I do with "Rio" but
>must say that "Rio" is an extremely well balanced and well built horse, and
>also has a pedigree with several family lines that have been noted for their
>metabolic capabilities. No surprises there...
>
This is the classic discussion of the genetics vs. training. Did Rio look
like he does now when he was 4? Probably not. In human athletics it is
work that does the trick. There are many players in the NBA today that
shouldn't be there because of their "ability". They are there because they
have made the best of what they have. Michael Jordan is a fantistic
basketball player - but it is not from raw athletic ability alone. If it
were he would have done better in baseball than a bad (actually very bad)
class A minor league player. Why has Barry Sanders (a very little guy for
a football player ) never been hurt. He is probably the hardest working
player in football. He is in shape and he is strong. He works his butt
off.
It was stated when Michael Johnson starting running that he would not be
around long - his body build and running form were wrong. That is, poor
conformation. Also the 200 meter and the 400 meter were different type
events and required different type of conditionings, different muscle
types, etc. Well the rest is history made in Atlanta,
So yes there was talent there in Cash and in Rio, but I would be willing to
say there was probably other horses out there with as much or more raw
talent. But raw talent is only the starting point. The rest comes from
good hard work.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm with a lille hellion on the ground
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:18:12 -0500
Subject: John DiPietra
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Help!
Does anyone have a telephone number, e-mail address or home address
for John DiPietra? I know he moved a year or two back, and my husband
would like to call him with a question about his custom saddle?
Thanks much. Please e-mail to RISTREE@aol.com.
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From: Tivers <Tivers@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4ca496dd.34b25f66@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:44:20 EST
To: bmurdock@cyberhighway.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Equine Conditioning Plateaus?
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In a message dated 98-01-06 01:22:27 EST, bmurdock@cyberhighway.net writes:
<< Human athletes often experience "plateaus" during their conditioning
efforts, where their rate of performance increase levels off. My question is
do our horses typically experience the same leveling period? >>
Bruce,
Yes, this happens with horses, too, but you want to avoid the flattening out
by setting up your own conditioning cycles--as in a hard week, a medium hard
week and light week (recovery) and a hard week. These you want to taylor to
the individual horse, dodging the plateaus. That light week would enable the
horse to gather himself together before getting stale.
You want your horse gaining or maintaining body weight throughout the
process--weight drops indicate an approaching plateau. Horses that hit a
plateau that the owner doesn't recognize soon enough are very susceptible to
injury.
ti
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Reply-To: <URRacing@elknet.net>
From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Long backs and Arabs..questions
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:09:10 -0600
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Ride On Truman,
We're in the Standardbred
racing business and know very well the importance of conditioning. Although
our horses are bred for ability and speed, each horse is an individual and
requires conditioning accordingly. Unlike the show breeds we don't have to
breed to please someones eye. This allows us to concentrate on performance
and in doing so conformation takes care of itself. Poorly conformed horses
don't race well, and are quickly eliminated from the breeding stock. It's
mostly a matter of bringing out the individual's natural ability. Each
horses conditioning program has to be tailored to his rate of reaching his
full potential. Bringing out that potential without breaking the horses
desire to succeed is the secret to winning.... Big Heart Helps.....
John & Elaine
urracing@elknet.net
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From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...more questions
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Thank you for the replies so far.
I also know of many arabs bred for the track. In fact, Mystery's
father My Ladd was bred for the track. What type of backs would a
racer be bred for?
Teddy, if I get you right, many breeders are not using the horses they
breed by riding them alot? What are they breeding them for, to just
look pretty? Pretty where? In the show ring? You are suggesting to
buy from someone who rides their horses a lot, not just breds them.
This, of course, makes good sense.
In this area, there are arabs running around just being bred
indiscrimately and being sold off for $500+, completely green. I'm not
convinced that getting a horse out of a wild pasture bunch is not a
good idea sometimes, as long as you can recognize the conformation and
potential. Their hooves are strong, they know how to take care of
themselves, they know the language of horses. As long as they've been
wormed and vetted properly from birth.
I also understand the back is relative to the rest of the horse. I
have to study Dr. Smiths explanation more closely in front of the
horses to really understand it. But it still begs a question: If the
horse is tall, or the horse is long and tall, shouldn't the back also
be long to go with the rest of the horse? Would this be another reason
to buy a smaller horse for distance?
thanks again!
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab)
Pt.Reyes, CA
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 10:16:39 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: bute usage
References: <v03007813b0d692727922@[128.255.62.121]>
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> >Her questions, though, mainly concern bute. Her horse is taking 1/2 gram a
> >day, and has been for several years. She's weaned him down that far, but
> >can't seem to get him off of it all together, as the symptoms from the
> >"stroke" reoccur. She's concerned about having him on this for so long and
> >doesn't want to cause any more problems with his health.
> >
> >Have any of you had experience with long term bute usage? Or any
> >suggestions about things she could be doing to minimize any damage it may
> >cause?
I'm not a vet, but I do remember one horse at our barn a long time ago
that had bad navicular whose owner wouldn't have him nerved and so gave
him bute daily for literally years on end---he got three grams a day,
PLUS an additional two grams on the days he was ridden. Yeow. But the
horse never had problems with it and eventually died of other totally
unrelated causes.
On the other hand, I know of another horse that was put onto just two
grams of bute a day for five days after showing mild signs of
laminitis. He'd never had bute before, started having gastric bleeding
problems almost immediately and died due to massive internal bleeding
caused by the bute.
I don't mean to sound alarmist, this is just an illustration that bute
can affect different horses differently. Maybe these two horses were
both incredibly abnormal, I don't know. At our house we just went
through a bout of giving bute to one of our horses following surgery and
our vet had us also giving him over-the-counter Zantac from WalMart two
hours before Puzzle got his bute to help avoid gastric ulcers. However,
it also took 32 tablets a dose which even on sale was about seven bucks
twice a day, so not really an option for long term use (at least not at
MY house). We were also giving him another drug called Carafate that
did the same thing, but it too was very expensive. Dr. Kemper also had
us giving Puzzle a small amount of Mylanta along with the bute (which IS
cheap), so maybe your friend could check with her vet to see if that's
an option, or even remotely recommended. My understanding is that the
primary problem with bute is potential gastric ulcers and bleeding, but
half a gram isn't much bute, even on a long term basis. You might also
tell your friend to keep an eye on the horse's poop for abnormally dark
fecal balls that would indicate blood in the feces.
Good luck,
Susan Garlinghouse
ge
References: <v03007813b0d692727922@[128.255.62.121]>
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> >Her questions, though, mainly concern bute. Her horse is taking 1/2 gram a
> >day, and has been for several years. She's weaned him down that far, but
>5252 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001060 06454476477 0013123 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02092 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:51:39 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:51:39 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801061851.KAA02092@fsr.com>
Subject: fly repellant receipe
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Heather Soanes
Email: ksoanes@iafrica.com
does anyone know a receipe for fly repellant ?I've tried all the usual sprays etc.
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: natcon@afrox.boc.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Ridgeway system
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 11:14:24 PST
>From: "Budler, Cindy" <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
>A mini type of survey for all.
>We are considering trying to get our committee to adopt this system for
>vetting pulses.>
Hi Cindy,
We use the "Ridgeway System" or Cardiac Recovery Index (CRI) at our
rides as a tool to evaluate metabolic status. It is incorporated into
the "trot-out" in the regular Vet exam and takes no longer to do than a
normal Vet check, when the Vet gets the hang of the routine.
When the horses is presented, the Vet takes the pulse first, then the
horse is trotted out the prescribed distance and back. The Vet observes
the trot for soundness. When the horse returns to the Vet after trot,
he/she examines the rest of the metabolic parameters, tack galls, etc.
The Vet should be able to do this in the 2 min. timeing window
prescribed for the CRI. (If not, your Vet needs more experience). The
pulses before the trot-out and after the 2 min. window are recorded.
The second pulse should be within 2 beats per 15 sec. of the first
pulse.
This is a very valuable tool when the Vet understands how to use it. If
the Vet does not understand it, or takes too long to perform it, the
riders may get very frustrated with the system. However, it's the Vet's
call, whether to use it no not.
I've seen rides where a PR crew preforms the CRI before the horse is
presented to the Vet. IMO, this is a waste of human resouces that most
ride managers don't have. The Vet should be able to do this quickly and
efficiently as part of the exam.
If this does not answer all your questions, I'd be glad to address them.
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7be2e194.34b2957a@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:35:04 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Warner Springs
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Who all is going this weekend? Have you heard weather reports - AND where is a
source of Gortex jackets near Thousand Oaks CA?? That's about it - see you
there!
s
5255 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002066 06454514775 0013127 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from ucdmc.ucdavis.edu (aslan.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu [152.79.105.105]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08293 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 12:54:16 -0800 (PST)
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From: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Reply-to: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 12:50:23 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: West Region Mini Convention
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To all west region people,
A mini convention is planned and ready to go for March 14, 1998.
This is to be a one day show with vendors, held at Cal Expo in
Sacramento, CA That's the State Fair Grounds for those who are not
familiar.
Hope to see you there.
----------------------------------------------------
Raymond Santana
Network Operations
UC Davis Medical Center
Sacramento, CA
rtsantana@ucdavis.edu or
raymond.santana@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:10:06 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
Reply-To: fourhorn@fea.net
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To: Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net, ristree@aol.com
Subject: Re: John DiPietra
References: <199801061121_MC2-2E40-E4FD@compuserve.com>
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Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com wrote:
>
> Help!
>
> Does anyone have a telephone number, e-mail address or home address
> for John DiPietra?
Try : http://www.synergistsaddles.com/
et
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:14:00 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Warner Springs
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SandyDSA wrote:
>
> Who all is going this weekend? Have you heard weather reports - AND where is a
> source of Gortex jackets near Thousand Oaks CA?? That's about it - see you
> there!
See Ya there Sandy. For good riding jackets try your local sporting good
store (Sport Chalet or a ski store) There are many good Gortex jackets
that are longer (over your hips) that are great for riding. In fact, at
the local tack/horse clothing store yesterday I noticed a brand of
riding jackets (Grand Prix) made by a skiwear company.
Lauren
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:03:16 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: conformation and the NBA
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Well, since we're using the NBA analogy, guess I'll throw in another
thought. My brother played in the NBA for the Jazz and although I admit
I'm highly biased, you never saw such a conformationally perfect guy for
basketball. Seven foot two, 230 pounds of lean muscle, smart as a whip,
runs like a deer and never, EVER gets tired. The reason why you hear
about other NBA players and why my brother isn't pulling down ten
million a year stilling playing for the Jazz (he played for one season)
is because when he was in high school, the basketball coach nearly
fainted when he saw my brother and ran him ragged all four years,
constantly practicing, practicing, practicing. More running, more
weights, do this, do that. Keep in mind this was in a sixteen year old
kid that was growing an inch every four months. By the time Bob
graduated from high school, he was already having trouble with stress
fractures in the long bones of his legs, and a few years later---after
more college b-ball and more pounding and pushing---when it came time
for the Jazz to decide on who to offer a million-dollar contract
to---either my brother with tricky legs or Mark Eaton, who runs like a
buffalo and has the brains of a soapdish (and who's still a friend of
the family, so I'm allowed to insult him), they took the guy with the
lesser talent but sound legs.
Talent or not, conformation or not, seems to me that it's the brains of
who's driving that makes as much or more difference as anything else.
In humans as well as endurance horses. Maybe that's why horses that
LOOK like conformationally they have no business being out there are
still out there, and great horses like Cash and Rio ARE great because
they have it all--the genetics, build, heart AND someone really smart to
point them in the right directions at the right times.
Just my .02 of course. Your mileage may vary.
Susan Garlinghouse (who will still defend to the death her opinion that
Bob Evans is God's Gift to Basketball)(and everything else, for that
matter)
Truman Prevatt wrote:
>
> >I don't have the "hands-on" experience with "Cash" that I do with "Rio" but
> >must say that "Rio" is an extremely well balanced and well built horse, and
> >also has a pedigree with several family lines that have been noted for their
> >metabolic capabilities. No surprises there...
> >
>
> This is the classic discussion of the genetics vs. training. Did Rio look
> like he does now when he was 4? Probably not. In human athletics it is
> work that does the trick. There are many players in the NBA today that
> shouldn't be there because of their "ability". They are there because they
> have made the best of what they have. Michael Jordan is a fantistic
> basketball player - but it is not from raw athletic ability alone. If it
> were he would have done better in baseball than a bad (actually very bad)
> class A minor league player. Why has Barry Sanders (a very little guy for
> a football player ) never been hurt. He is probably the hardest working
> player in football. He is in shape and he is strong. He works his butt
> off.
>
> It was stated when Michael Johnson starting running that he would not be
> around long - his body build and running form were wrong. That is, poor
> conformation. Also the 200 meter and the 400 meter were different type
> events and required different type of conditionings, different muscle
> types, etc. Well the rest is history made in Atlanta,
>
> So yes there was talent there in Cash and in Rio, but I would be willing to
> say there was probably other horses out there with as much or more raw
> talent. But raw talent is only the starting point. The rest comes from
> good hard work.
>
> Truman
>
> Truman Prevatt
> Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm with a lille hellion on the ground
> The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
> Jordy - Finaly getting his shot
>
> Sarasota, FL
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: new to sport
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:14:08 -0700
Message-ID: <01bd1af0$6874cc00$8c8287cf@willard>
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Hi, not sure if I'm doing this right. I am new to this sport and would =
appreciate knowing if there is anyone from Utah or surrounding areas =
that rides. Someone to train with or talk with. =20
Thanks, Carrie
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi, not sure if I'm doing this =
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to this sport and would appreciate knowing if there is anyone from Utah =
or=20
surrounding areas that rides. Someone to train with or talk =
with. =20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks, =
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ecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: new to sport
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 15:14:08 -0700
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 15:33:55 -0800
From: Gary Fend <garyfend@pacbell.net>
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To: "'endurowest'" <endurowest@sadandy.hpl.hp.com>,
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Subject: New Oakland Hills Ride Date
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There has been a scheduling mix-up with the Parks and the bottom line is
that the Oakland Hills Ride originally scheduled for June 20 will be
moved to a week earlier, June 13th.
Please mark your calendars and we hope this change doesn't screw up too
many people's schedule!
Gary & Laura (and Cinnabar, Whiz, Khutrina and Jorjia)
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:06:15 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801070006.QAA19738@fsr.com>
Subject: Help! Runaway!
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: debbie
Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
This is the first horse I have owned that I couldn't control. As he is very fit right now when he is with other horses he thinks he he is in a race. The weird way he gets control is by arching his neck and drawing it in as far as he can. He doesn't open his mouth like some horses do. I was told to tie a can under his throatlatch, but that seems drastic. I use a mild grazing bit that seems to fit well. He only does this getaway thing when he thinks he is competing or when we are heading home sometimes. He isn't sore anywhere that I can find..Suggestions welcome..Thanks
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 19:47:04 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Groundwork vs. Riding
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Many folks have very kindly responded to my requests for help with
my head-dropping (and "Buddy-Propping" and "No we AREN'T leaving the
group-propping") horse.Most suggestions have had to do with groundwork
and various in-hand work. The current orthodoxy seems to be that all
under saddle behaviour troubles are groundwork and/or pecking order
problems.My horse is an angel in hand,he follows me around like a dog,and
he is responding quickly and with enthusiasm to my novice attempts at
groundwork.I'm going to do the groundwork and see how things go-it's
fun.But I must say I'm not optimistic that it'll have any effect under
saddle.I believe the solution,if it is found,will occur under
saddle.SO:that's our topic question,folks;lets hear what you think.
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From: "Wilcocks, Carol" <cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Cc: kiwana@sover.net
Subject: Ride Nutrition
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 09:00:00 PST
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Hi Vickie,
I also am interested in finding out more about nutrition for diabetics. My
partner is a diabetic, he also rides and crews for me, and we have huge
problems addressing the balance of insulin and food in relation to energy
expended. He is newly diagnosed, (3 months) and we are both learning about
dietary management. I am worried he may be out riding or crewing and go low
(hypo), and be unable to get the proper food etc. Because of this I try to
plan ahead and pack plenty of food, plus his insulin, but basically it gets
pretty difficult to find stuff he's allowed that packs well and tastes good!
Anyone else out there have any ideas on lowfat no sugar foods? He's not
allowed more than a handful of fruit a day, and needs lots of carbohydrates.
The hardest thing for him is giving up beer for the low alcohol stuff!!!
TIA,
Carol and the
Gang.
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:04:49 -0800
From: Jerry & Susan Milam <jdmilam@fwb.gulf.net>
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To: guest@endurance.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: fly repellant receipe
References: <199801061851.KAA02092@fsr.com>
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guest@endurance.net wrote:
>
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
> You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>
> From: Heather Soanes
> Email: ksoanes@iafrica.com
>
> does anyone know a receipe for fly repellant ?I've tried all the usual sprays etc.
Where are you at that you need fly spray right now?
In a 32 oz bottle mix:
1Tb Eucalyptus Oil
1Tb Citronella
1Tb Camphor
2 oz Hair Conditioner
3 oz Baby Oil
1/2C Pine oil
Water
You can substitute peppermint, thyme, or pennyroyal oils for the
Eucalyptus
Happy Tails
Susan
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:12:25 -0600 (CST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: barker@ionet.net (Bill and Carol Barker)
Subject: New Favorite
My new favorite piece of endurance equipment is my Boink polar fleece riding
tights! They are the best and are keeping me quite warm this winter.
Carol
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 19:16:31 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: essential oils for fly repellant
In-Reply-To: <34B2FEE1.7FBC@fwb.gulf.net>
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As fly season fast approaches (actually, they don't ever leave us down
here -- just saw some today :) I'm starting to think about fly spray.
Does anyone know of a good source (mailorder I guess) for the essential
oils used in the all-natural fly spray recipe? I can buy them locally at
outrageous prices ($9 for 1/3 ounce) from a local vendor, but would much
prefer buying a whole summer's supply at reduced prices, if at all
possible.
Surely some of you California people know a good supplier! <bg>
Glenda & Lakota (I smell sooooo good in summertime!)
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:25:28 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: rider exercises
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A couple of the posts over the last few days got me thinking & hopefully
you successful 50 & 100 milers can help us less experienced. Truman's
comment about the "athletic ability of the rider" & Raymond Santana's
comment about keeping the legs still when posting both point to us, the
riders. Sunday during my first long distance conditioning ride of 1998, I
kept hearing my former riding instructor's voice, "heel's down, legs still,
shoulders back, sit deep".
We concentrate on conditioning our horses, but what are the most successful
exercises for the human part of the team? I have no problem conditioning
Felix, but can't seem to get off my tush when it's for me. There have been
many comments about the ill effects a tired rider has on the performance of
the horse, but what do y'all do to prepare yourselves?
As a note, I have a physical disability that prohibits running/jogging or
any product thereof. Please tell me that something else works.
Thanks in advance for all the advice that I'm hope this will generate.
Vicki Wheeler & Felix (since it's raining, we don't have to ride...do we?)
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <52934817.34b2d768@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:16:23 EST
To: lynn@hpd.acast.nova.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respiration rate and thumps
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Lynn,
Thank you very much for your input. It has been a very long time since I took
physiology (graduated from UCLA Dental School in 1979), but I thought that I
remembered that a respiratory alkalosis could be induced from blowing off CO2.
I had the feeling that this was happening with this horse. I had never heard
anyone discuss the relationship of thumps with respiration. Thanks also for
reminding me that potassium is a major factor. Most of us tend to think of
thumps as being a calcium problem only. I have also received input from Lari
Shea (thank you Lari) about training methods to improve respiratory rate. I
will keep you posted as to how this goes? I give this horse a mixture of
regular salt, lite salt and dolomite in applesauce. Do you have any other
recommendations?
Thank you to other ridecampers who have given input.
Debby Lyon
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 18:20:11 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
cc: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...questions
In-Reply-To: <8e6bdd23.34b24b7e@aol.com>
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, RUN4BEAR wrote:
> The time has come for distance riders to recognize that you "get what you pay
> for". Get a cheap arab "castoff" from a breeder and maybe you will be lucky
> enough to get a good hrose. BUT, now we see an increase in responsible
Unfortunately, I cannot agree with this. I have seen nothing to indicate
that success as an endurance horse can be correlated in any way with price
paid for the horse. And this is not true only for endurance.
In my experience, some of the best horses out there (in whatever
discipline, except racing and breed showing, i.e. open performance
competition) were gotten for free...or a few hundred dollars. And some of
the most inadequate horses have been unreasonably expensive.
It would be nice if "you got what you paid for" as then price would be a
good indicator of ability, and horse shopping would be much easier. But I
haven't found it to be true.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 21:22:42 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Re: rider exercises
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>
>As a note, I have a physical disability that prohibits running/jogging or
>any product thereof. Please tell me that something else works.
>
>
Try a bicycle or even swimming.
Truman
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From: Wrecksduke <Wrecksduke@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f40cf16b.34b2e884@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:29:23 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Farriers in SouCal - Valley
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Hey anyone in SouCal -- do you have any recommendations for good, reasonably
priced farriers in the Chatsworth to Agoura area?
The info is for my brother.
Thanks,
Melody
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From: Naztari <Naztari@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d868024.34b2ef64@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:58:36 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Biothane Halter
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I am interested in Sportack's Boiothane Halter with Add On Bridle. Has anyone
used this combination? Any comments?
Ed Roley
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To: vwheeler@mail.tds.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: rider exercises
Message-ID: <19980107.082615.3438.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <3.0.3.32.19980106202528.007d0cf0@conc.tdsnet.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:32:51 EST
>
>We concentrate on conditioning our horses, but what are the most
>successful
>exercises for the human part of the team? I have no problem
>conditioning
>Felix, but can't seem to get off my tush when it's for me. There have
>been
>many comments about the ill effects a tired rider has on the
>performance of
>the horse, but what do y'all do to prepare yourselves?
>
>As a note, I have a physical disability that prohibits running/jogging
>or
>any product thereof. Please tell me that something else works.
>
>Thanks in advance for all the advice that I'm hope this will generate.
>Vicki Wheeler & Felix (since it's raining, we don't have to ride...do
>we?)
>
>Vicki, though I'm certainly not a big deal in the 100 mile arena, maybe
I'm closer to your level and can help. I recently completed my first 100
and felt GREAT!
I can't jog either, (torn ACL in right knee from a horse rearing over
backwards on it back in '79) The best thing I have found is riding a
Schwinn Airdyne exercise bike. I am specific about this, because it's
the only exercise bike that I have ever felt was worth a hill of beans.
I rode 5 miles, hard, five-7 days a week, building up to an occasional 10
mile ride. I found it much more strenuous than going riding on my
mountain bike, since you never coast. Around my part of the country
(North Georgia) with all the hills, you can't help but spend a lot of
time coasting. By holding the handles palm up, I was even able to build
up a little more upper arm, "Whoa Kazoos, don't use it all up on the
first loop" muscles. By raising or lowering the seat, you can work
different muscle groups in your legs. Also, my doctor said riding an Air
dyne backwards was the best therapy for my knee.
I was also walking 3 miles, 4 to 5 days a week, but didn't feel that
helped all that much.
Maybe this will help,
Angie Mc ghee and Kazoos, "What do you mean muscle weighs more than fat?"
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a0919681.34b30c70@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:02:38 EST
To: Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: John DiPietra
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In a message dated 98-01-06 12:11:31 EST,
Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com writes:
<< Does anyone have a telephone number, e-mail address or home address
for John DiPietra? I know he moved a year or two back, and my husband
would like to call him with a question about his custom saddle?
>>
602 595 0115
5571 E New River Rd
Cave Creek Az 85331
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:25:33 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: vwheeler@mail.tds.net
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: rider exercises
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980106202528.007d0cf0@conc.tdsnet.com>
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998 vwheeler@mail.tds.net wrote:
> kept hearing my former riding instructor's voice, "heel's down, legs still,
> shoulders back, sit deep".
Here's the bad news....if you ride endurance with your "heels down" you
will put your feet to sleep (at least if you use that exaggerated heels
down leg position that is so sought after in the hunter show ring). You
would do better to have your toes and heels level....Otherwise, you will
have to buy those expensive Cloud Nine stirrups :).
> We concentrate on conditioning our horses, but what are the most successful
> exercises for the human part of the team? I have no problem conditioning
> Felix, but can't seem to get off my tush when it's for me. There have been
Here are a couple of very simple (you note that I do not say easy)
excercises that can very easily be done in front of the TV, that do
wonders for building the muscles that you need for riding:
1) Get the thigh master (TM) and follow the instructions that come
with it. This will build the muscles of the inner thigh.
2) With your hands on your hips, stand up straight, bend your legs at the
knees so that you (just barely) can't see your toes. Keeping your
shoulders over your hips over your feet...pick up one foot and place the
inside of your ankle against the inside of your knee. Hold for 30
seconds...working up to 1 minute. Do the same with the other leg.
3) Do exercise #2, but standing on your toes.
4) Do a skier's exercise called "tuck and jump." Place your feet
about shoulder width apart. Bend your knees down into the skier's tuck
position (you know, what those downhill ski racers do at 90 mph). Your
back should be level (so it should feel like you are sticking your butt up
in the air), and your elbows should be between your knees (to start with
you can rest your elbows against the inside of your knees for a little
support). YOur lower arms should be level (i.e. don't drop your hands,
hold them up like you were holding ski poles off the ground). Don't rest
the back of your thighs on your calves. Hold this position for as long as
you can (to start with it will probably be about 10 seconds) working up to
30 seconds. After which, jump straight up in the air springing off of
your feet to get your feet about one foot off of the ground and
immediately drop back down into the "tuck" position as you come out of the
jump. Repeat as many times as you can until your legs feel like they are
about to fall off :)---working up to 5 minutes. (If this exercise gets
too easy for you, you can dress yourself up in ski boots and skis and get
the whole kit and kaboodle a foot off the ground :))).
Exercise 1 develops the muscles of the inner thigh and the buttocks.
Exercise 2 develops your lateral balance (and the muscles you need for
lateral balance).
Exercise 3 develops your lateral balance and begins to develop your
balance front to back.
Exercise 4 develops your front to back balance (remember to keep your feet
flat on the floor for this exercise) as well as developing the muscles of
the front of your thigh (your quads) and your lower back (the most
important muscle for riding as far as I am concerned).
Just a week doing these exercises should show a dramatic improvement in
your riding balance (reducing your and the horse's workload drastically).
Let me know if you have any questions.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:36:02 -0800
To: Naztari <Naztari@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: lkinsky@silcom.com (Lynn Kinsky)
Subject: Re: Biothane Halter
>I am interested in Sportack's Boiothane Halter with Add On Bridle. Has anyone
>used this combination? Any comments?
>
>Ed Roley
I love it! Much easier to slip the whole bridle on and just clip it to the
halter, than to try to hold a bit in a possibly fussing horse's mouth while
also trying to clip the bit to the halter (I used to have a nylon combo
that used velcro instead of clips: that was almost as easy as the add on
bridle -- but not quite!).
-- Lynn K. (Santa Ynez, CA)
http://www.silcom.com/~lkinsky
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <87486dcb.34b315a5@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:41:56 EST
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...more questions
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Hi, Kimberly--
Regarding your questions about long vs. tall, and what kind of back for
racehorses, first let me say again that the horse must be proportionate TO
HIMSELF. Of course a taller horse must be longer overall in order to "fit"
himself, but the idea of the proportions and the relationship of the back,
shoulder and hip still apply. The bigger the horse, the bigger all the parts.
The angles should still be the same, and the "circles" I described in my
earlier post still apply.
As to racers, the same body proportions (good shoulder, good hip, short back,
long underline) still apply. In fact, where seconds count, it is much more
difficult to be truly successful without having the proper conformation. Some
of the "shortest" backs I have seen (remember, that is in proportion to the
whole horse) have been on some of the top winning Thoroughbreds and top
Thoroughbred sires. I don't know if you are familiar with Thoroughbred
racehorses, but one of the most beautifully conformed horses I have EVER seen
of ANY breed is the Thoroughbred stallion Woodman--he was a successful
racehorse and has sired countless stakes winners. (To give you an idea of his
value in the Thoroughbred world, where only results count, he has a six-figure
stud fee and a full book of mares every year.) He is a huge horse with a very
short, tight back, fabulous shoulder, miles of hip, a long underline, and the
whole package fits together so smoothly... Unbelievable. At any rate,
racehorses must round their backs in order to get the maximum reach forward
with their hind legs, and then fully extend with every single stride--a long-
backed horse has a much more difficult time with the "flexion" part of the
stride and hence loses ground to a better conformed horse of equal ability.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
of the back,
shoulder and hip still apply. The bigger the horse, the bigger all the parts.
The angles should still be the same, and the "circles" I described in my
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From: "Budler, Cindy" <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
To: "'ENDURANCE NET'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: CRI or ridgeway questions
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:50:50 +0200
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Hi all,
Thanks for the prompt answers to my questions. We do realize that as
with all systems there are always problems and they can't be used in
isolation, but your comments have helped to clarify our thoughts. Your
years of experience with new methods are a great sounding board - after
all why re-invent the wheel if someone is already using it?
Thanks again,
Cindy
Afrox National Contracts Department
P.O.Box 879 , Germiston,1400
Tel 011 871-1006
Fax 011 873-4623
E-mail : natcon@afrox.boc.com
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Message-Id: <199801070643.WAA10960@fsr.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 22:41:18 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: rider exercises
REPLY TO 01/06/98 20:10 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: rider exercises
[70248] TUE 01/06/98 20:10 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: rider exercises;
30 LINES
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 21:22:42 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Re: rider exercises
>
>As a note, I have a physical disability that prohibits running/jogging or
>any product thereof. Please tell me that something else works.
>
>
Try a bicycle or even swimming.
Truman
--------
Also, if you have access to a good health club, some have ERG's, or
ergometers. An ergometer gives you both a cardiovascular, and
almost total body workout. It is commonly used in rowing (sculling)
programs to both train and condition, and also assess rowers.
It is NOT a rowing maching, per se.
Right now I am pretty frustrated. My great running efforts have
been stymied by some heel bursitis, so I can't currently walk, run
or biccle aggressively. Unless I can a swimming pool pretty quick,
or
join the over-priced health club with the ERG, I don't know what I
am going to do!
After spending months getting the running up to 10 miles, it is
pretty discouraging to look at the prospect of turning into a blob
again.
I DO think this is endurance related. I believe some degree of
physical fitness is essential for good, balanced riding. In my
case, all the running was in the hopes I could find a partner and do
a ride and tie this year.
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Message-Id: <199801070646.WAA11539@fsr.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 22:44:26 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Biothane Halter
REPLY TO 01/06/98 20:08 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Biothane Halter
[70245] TUE 01/06/98 20:08 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Biothane Halter;
24 LINES
From: Naztari <Naztari@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:58:36 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Biothane Halter
I am interested in Sportack's Boiothane Halter with Add On Bridle. Has anyone
used this combination? Any comments?
Ed Roley
----
Ed,
That is what I use. I have been satisfied with the biothane halter,
and totally love the Add-on bridle. It is different from the usual
clip-on bit hangers, in that you have the entire loop of the
headstall to drag over the horses head. The clip around browband
stabilizes and bridle and halter also.
I have bridled horses for friends that have the bit hangers that
clip to the halter or headstall and I find it tricky to fumble with
the snap, often while the horse is fidgeting. Often too, those
headstalls are more flimsy than the biothane halter (it has wider
straps and more substantial hardware)
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:21:52 -0800
From: Jerry & Susan Milam <jdmilam@fwb.gulf.net>
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To: Lynn Kinsky <lkinsky@silcom.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Biothane Halter
References: <v01510101b0d8c2db8c3c@[207.71.210.78]>
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Lynn Kinsky wrote:
>
> >I am interested in Sportack's Boiothane Halter with Add On Bridle. Has anyone
> >used this combination? Any comments?
> >
> >Ed Roley
>
>I love the combo bridle. Get it in the narrowist (sp) width you can. It looks better when it's narrower. If you use more than one bit, get additional bit holders..they're a pain to change out bits on.
Happy Tails
Susan
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41450787.34b37125@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:12:19 EST
To: vwheeler@mail.tds.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: rider exercises
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In a message dated 98-01-06 20:44:49 EST, you write:
> As a note, I have a physical disability that prohibits running/jogging or
> any product thereof. Please tell me that something else works.
All last ride season I rode my bike back and forth to work. I feel that
helped keep me in shape on days that I didn't train. Need to get back to that
this year :-}
~Nora
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <74492189.34b37775@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:39:16 EST
To: Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: rider exercises
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In a message dated 98-01-07 01:44:29 EST, you write:
> Right now I am pretty frustrated. My great running efforts have
> been stymied by some heel bursitis,
Have you tried Flex Free or the human equivalent?
I take it for my arthritis. Seems to help.
~Nora
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <57f6408a.34b3799d@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:48:29 EST
To: Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Biothane Halter
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In a message dated 98-01-07 01:46:28 EST, you write:
> It is different from the usual
> clip-on bit hangers, in that you have the entire loop of the
> headstall to drag over the horses head. The clip around browband
> stabilizes and bridle and halter also.
I made my own version of this a few years back. I put a regular halter on my
horse. My bit is attached to a single loop that is basically the crown piece
and the cheek pieces. The brow band is attached to that loop. On the crown
piece of the halter I have a little velcro do-hickie that holds the halter and
the bridle together. It's very simple and very easy to use.
~Nora
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:54:20 -0600
From: "Michael K. Maul" <mmaul@flash.net>
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Points standings and ride results updated
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The latest information received yesterday from the AERC office is now
available at
htp://www.aerc.org/
for the points standings and ride results. Please take a look at the
ride results
and if you see a * - this indicates that there is a problem with the
info at the office.
If you can clarify the info with the office - please let them know
either by e-mail
at aerc@foothill.net or the forms in the EN.
If you see a * for someone that you know but may not have internet
access - let them
know so that they can contact the AERC.
Mike
mmaul@flash.net
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:43:52 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Endurance List <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Biothane Halter
In-Reply-To: <v01510101b0d8c2db8c3c@[207.71.210.78]>
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Lynn Kinsky wrote:
> I love it! Much easier to slip the whole bridle on and just clip it to the
> halter, than to try to hold a bit in a possibly fussing horse's mouth while
YOu can achieve the same effect by slipping the bridle you already own
over the halter you already own....been doing it for years. No need to go
shopping, just use what you already have. The only differnce is you don't
have to clip anything to the halter...and it may not be color coordinated
(mine are, since I have a leather halter and a leather bridle :)).
kat
Orange County, Calif.
p.s. You can take the throatlatch off of your bridle if you don't want to
have to do it up (or undo it).
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Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:49:19 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:49:20 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Sullys Maze <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Biothane Halter
In-Reply-To: <199801070646.WAA11539@fsr.com>
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On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Sullys Maze wrote:
> I have bridled horses for friends that have the bit hangers that
> clip to the halter or headstall and I find it tricky to fumble with
> the snap, often while the horse is fidgeting. Often too, those
For those of you that care....generally speaking (not true for all horses
and all types of bit) those "snap to the halter" bit hangers do not place
the bit in the horse's mouth "properly." Not for when it is just hanging
there, but when you apply the rein. This is especially true for curb bits
or any bit that is designed to have some "action" on the poll of the
horse.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
00 (PST)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:49:20 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Sullys Maze <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:06:00 -0500 (EST)
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To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: Re: You get what you pay for!
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Hi, Teddy!
I agree with you! My husband's First Law of Economics: Nothing is
free -- Everything has a cost, which must be paid.
Don't forget, Val paid $500.00 for Cash! However, he had the basics
and she had the time and know how -- figure out what it cost getting to that
know how, and Cash's "price" is up there!!
Purchase price and the cost to produce the horse must be part of the
equation!
However, there is such a thing as too high a price.
Barbara (and Zaim -- so what if my back's a little long? So's the rest of me!)
(P.S. Keep quiet Zaim, that's why it's taking so "long" to get "all" of you
conditioned!)
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 08:38:51 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801071638.IAA24802@fsr.com>
Subject: Horse Products
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:52:51 -0500
From: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
Sender: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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<< They are very good trail horses in that they
are very willing to go forward, over just about anything. However, they
also tend to be less sure-footed, I think. Cosqui, at least, with her
head up and legs just a-pumping, manages to put her tiny little feet in
every hole and trip over every tree root on the trail. :)>>
I find all this talk about Paso Finos very amusing and really enjoy readi=
ng
everyone's opinions. Don't stop because someones toes are a bit sensitiv=
e,
everyone has an opinion. My only experience with the Paso was on a CTR i=
n
Indiana where I got stuck behind a lovely mother and daughter team, (hors=
es
and riders) who were having a lovely time on their beautiful little horse=
s
who where happily churning up the dust into my and my horse's face for at=
least a half mile. I finally had to pull my tee shirt up over my nose.
What a hoot! You can bet I worked hard to stay in front of them for the
remainder of the ride. I don't remember how they placed, but I'm sure th=
ey
had as much fun as I did. And don't discount the gaited horses. I have a=
friend who rode a TWH on many a CTR and placed exceptionally well. She
enjoyed the ride too. Speaking of which, don't you guys get sore from th=
e
shuffleing of the seat bones in constant contact with the saddle?
Jan, who likes a little air under her as she proceeds. =
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:52:57 -0500
From: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...questions
Sender: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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<<So yes there was talent there in Cash and in Rio, but I would be willin=
g
to
say there was probably other horses out there with as much or more raw
talent. But raw talent is only the starting point. The rest comes from
good hard work.
Truman>>
Couldn't agree more. I've always believed a 'fair' horse will do well
under an excellent rider, were as he will fail under an inexperienced or
poor rider. A 'good' horse will excell under an excellent rider, were as =
he
might just make it under an inexperienced or poor rider. A' natrually bor=
n
talented horse' will be a super horse in the right hands and will do well=
for the inexperienced rider. A poor rider won't do well no matter what
he/she rides. So it is up to us as riders to educate ourselves in all th=
e
facets of the sport.
Also, it is just pure luck sometimes that these 'naturally born talented
horses' fall into the right hands and taken to the level that these rider=
s
are capable of. Yes, there are lots of these horses around too, not
necessarily in a large breeding establishment either. I've found that
small breeders are more concerned with what their favorate mare is going =
to
produce for them than the large breeders who seem to go for the fad of th=
e
day. So sometimes it's hard to find those super horses, but less so now
that more breeders are actually breeding for it.
Jan
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: You get what you pay for!
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 16:35:55 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34baae96.4164768@mail.mti.net>
References: <199801071606.LAA18327@teleplex.net>
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On Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:06:00 -0500 (EST), Barbara Madill
<madill@teleplex.net> wrote:
> Don't forget, Val paid $500.00 for Cash! However, he had the basics
>and she had the time and know how -- figure out what it cost getting to that
>know how, and Cash's "price" is up there!!
Yep. And I paid $400 for Kahlil, as a green-broke three year old.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801071728.KAA04639@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Rider Conditioning
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:28:08 MST
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2]
As with our horses, there are several aspects of conditioning for
the rider. The absolute best exercise is *riding*. As with any
sport, the best you can do is do the sport. So, get out
there and exercise several horses every day for hours at a time,
and you'll get in shape. Of course, if you have to work for a
living like me, that doesn't always work. (Please take this with
a smile:-)
OK, a bit more serious. As with the horses, we need to work on
cardio-vascular (aerobic) work, muscle building, and balance in
addition to good riding skills.
I hate running. So I don't do it. Walking to the end of my driveway
and back (1/2 mile, plus altitude changes), or walking to the top of
the mountain to find out where those crazy horses are, is about the most
I'll do in the way of foot work. I've tried aerobics and think it is boring.
I can do a week or two before I drop out. And we even have classes
here at work so there really isn't any excuse for me. So, for my
conditioning, I took up martial arts. I did tae kwon do for more
years than I should have. Now I do Tai Chi. If you have ever seen
Tai Chi done, but not done it yourself, you may think "aerobic?" However,
when done correctly, particularly when you are learning, your heart is
getting a good workout. For example, stand with your feet about shoulders
width apart, keep your feet parallel, make your back flat, bend your knees,
and hold that position. Don't cheet and straighten your knees. How
long can you hold it? The first time you try, it may be only a minute.
Consider exercising like this for half an hour or an hour. Additionally,
tai chi is great for muscle toning and balance.
My personal opinion is that tai chi is the second best exercise for
riding. Riding itself being the best. As long as you can stand and
walk a little, you can do tai chi. Depending on your physical conditioning
and abilities you may want to add other things to your exercise program.
Running, biking, swimming, are great for aerobic exercises. Weight
lifting builds muscles. Stretching is good for us all. Cleaning stalls
and throwing hay works just about everything. And chasing horses all over
the mountain side when they are determined that today is just a lazy
day will really work the aerobic side of your conditioning.
--
Wendy
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/\ -O-
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Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
Hewlett-Packard Company e-mail: wendy@fc.hp.com
Mail Stop A2-5UB3 Telnet: 229-2182 (898-2182 as of Nov 1.)
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Fort Collins, CO, 80528-9599 FAX: (970) 229-2038 (898-2038)
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Out of Control
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:30:00 -0800
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There have been several posts from people whose horses are evading the
bit, or jigging, or plunging down inclines, etc... various ways of
trying to kill us and themselves. Been there, done that...
I'm sure we all agree that an endurance ride is a bad place to start
training our horses to be obedient. You may want to try this technique
on your training rides. It 's really boring, but works for me and I
didn't make it up. When your horse won't stop jigging, won't stand
still, evades the bit... just let your riding partners go on down the
trail (tell them NOT to wait for you) and turn your horse in tiny
circles until he will halt and stand. This means ALL FOUR FEET on the
ground. No moving until you say OK and then only at a walk. If there
is more jigging, cantering in place, leaping up and down... do more
circles. Don't neckrein, just pull one rein out to the side (can't
evade that!) so that if he decides to move anywhere on his own, he can
only go in circles. He's doing it to himself. You don't have to jerk.
As I said, this is very time consuming and not much fun because your
friends leave you, but eventually, your horse will give up and stand.
He will move forward at the walk and will start listening to you when
you address him. Otherwise... it's those damn circles again. You have
to be firm, quiet and consistent. If you get mad, the horse wins. Now,
all I have to do is "think" about a circle, and my horses say "Aggghhh,
not that! OK, I'll be good, I promise!"
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:23:57 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801072023.AA01859@cody.unavco>
To: mrwallet@key-net.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Help! Runaway!
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Debbie,
There have been some good (sometimes passionate) discussions on bits and
bitting in the ridecamp archives so you might want to try a search of the
archives. I'm not an expert trainer or anything myself but this sounds
like your horse has learned how to avoid the curb action of the grazing bit,
so one possible solution might be trying a snaffle bit (eggbut or dee-ring.)
You can use a sawing action to get the horses attention when they are
running through the bit, but they are an extremely mild bit otherwise.
The snaffle would also allow you to flex your horses head to one side
and the other easily (just a little bit is all that is needed.) This is
a good exercise to keep your horse yielding to the bit.
Teresa
>
> From: debbie
> Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
>
> This is the first horse I have owned that I couldn't control. As he is very fit right now when he is with other horses he thinks he he is in a race. The weird way he gets control is by arching his neck and drawing it in as far as he can. He doesn't open his mouth like some horses do. I was told to tie a can under his throatlatch, but that seems drastic. I use a mild grazing bit that seems to fit well. He only does this getaway thing when he thinks he is competing or when we are heading home sometimes. He isn't sore anywhere that I can find..Suggestions welcome..Thanks
>
>
>
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Daring Kat!
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:28:00 -0800
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You're BRAVE, Kat! I've witnessed more than one horse rub his headstall
off when the throatlatch wasn't done up right. It's so interesting
watching the rider try to stop his horse with the bit against the horses
neck. RODEO!
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Get what you pay for
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:34:00 -0800
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Yes Joe, I've always been taught that a horse will rise (or fall) to the
level of the rider.
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:53:05 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801072053.MAA08497@fsr.com>
Subject: Paso Fino
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Debby
Email: rstai@flash.net
Sorry, didn't mean to open up a subject and get so many people upset. I'd ridden Paso's back in Georgia several years ago, thought and still think I'd love to have one someday and wondered how they'd do for endurance, I'm also interested in competitive but for the most part just want to have fun and be safe. The Paso's I rode were not "showy" and had very good hooves and legs, think they were very trail hardy. Thanks for all of your positive feedback and remember this forum is for everyone to state his/her opionion in a constructive manner.
Hope to see you'all out on the trails someday. Thanks, Debby
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To: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>,
"'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Out of Control
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This is a good technique and one I have used on Star, who came to me with a
few bad manners. Other things I have used that have helped calm this horse
immensely are:
1. Get a John Lyons book, tape, or magazines and learn the "giving to the
bit" exercise. It teaches the horse responsiveness and teaches you to
release pressure immediately when the horse is doing the right thing. You
learn to work together very well. People ride Star and tell me how
responsive he is. He always had a good mouth, but sometimes it was "earth
to Star" when he started jigging and misbehaving. This exercise also gives
you something to do when the horse gets upset that calms it down quickly.
2. Use half-halts to control jigging. This works beautifully on Star. He
was so bad with jigging and racing that he was out of control on one CTR
last summer. He was dangerous to me and other riders and got himself so
wound up that his pulse wouldn't come down from 80 for the longest time.
Since then I've learned to use half halts when he starts jigging. At the
first jig step, we half-halt until I get a flat-footed walk out of him.
Even if it is just ONE flat foot step, I quit thehalf halts and pet him and
praise him. If he begins jigging again, it's back to half halts. The reward
for the right thing has to be immediate. I used to have to do these half
halts for up to a half mile to get him to calm down and quit jigging. Now
it just takes a few steps and he comes back to me.
3. Practice, practice, practice with other riders. Star gets very fretful
if other horses run past him or leave him. He always wants to be in the
lead. My friends and I have practiced taking turns in the lead, breaking
away from each other and riding separately, and running past each other.
Last weekend, my friend cantered her horse past Star and Star didn't get
the least bit upset. Another friend took her horse away from Star and rode
in a separate field. STar was looking for Boggs, but never got out of control.
Hope my experience helps. It takes time, patience, and consistent, fair cues.
chris paus & star
At 10:30 AM 1/7/98 -0800, Blankenship, Ann wrote:
>There have been several posts from people whose horses are evading the
>bit, or jigging, or plunging down inclines, etc... various ways of
>trying to kill us and themselves. Been there, done that...
>
>I'm sure we all agree that an endurance ride is a bad place to start
>training our horses to be obedient. You may want to try this technique
>on your training rides. It 's really boring, but works for me and I
>didn't make it up. When your horse won't stop jigging, won't stand
>still, evades the bit... just let your riding partners go on down the
>trail (tell them NOT to wait for you) and turn your horse in tiny
>circles until he will halt and stand. This means ALL FOUR FEET on the
>ground. No moving until you say OK and then only at a walk. If there
>is more jigging, cantering in place, leaping up and down... do more
>circles. Don't neckrein, just pull one rein out to the side (can't
>evade that!) so that if he decides to move anywhere on his own, he can
>only go in circles. He's doing it to himself. You don't have to jerk.
>As I said, this is very time consuming and not much fun because your
>friends leave you, but eventually, your horse will give up and stand.
>He will move forward at the walk and will start listening to you when
>you address him. Otherwise... it's those damn circles again. You have
>to be firm, quiet and consistent. If you get mad, the horse wins. Now,
>all I have to do is "think" about a circle, and my horses say "Aggghhh,
>not that! OK, I'll be good, I promise!"
>
>
>
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From: Colin & Cherry Boulain <cb-equi@netcomuk.co.uk>
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Hi
I have a Sportack Halter Bridle and I love it.
Cherry
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Subject: Re: long backs & arabs...questions
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K S Swigart wrote:
> In my experience, some of the best horses out there (in whatever
> discipline, except racing and breed showing, i.e. open performance
> competition) were gotten for free...or a few hundred dollars. And some of
yeppers....best horse I've ever owned I paid $350 for. His daddy is in
Scottsdale with a $2500 stud fee!
tracy
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <30288508.34b3fff0@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:21:34 EST
To: Debbyly@aol.com, lynn@hpd.acast.nova.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respiration rate and thumps
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In a message dated 98-01-06 23:21:32 EST, Debbyly@AOL.COM writes:
<< I give this horse a mixture of
regular salt, lite salt and dolomite in applesauce. Do you have any other
recommendations?
Thank you to other ridecampers who have given input.
Debby Lyon
>>
Since this horse has real problems.. I -- getting back on my salt box--- would
highly recommend a properly formulated - balanced electrolyte. Made from the
correct ingredients.. that can be correclty absorbed by the horse
as always-- my list is;
Enduralyte or lite Creative Science
Ride Rite- ABC
Perf and Win Buckeye
all powders
and
Lyte- and -Now paste.
I would suspect this homemade mix may be part of the cause of the problems..
at least it is a good place to start from.
Roger R
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From: nevadaghostridr@webtv.net (L Eisele)
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:32:04 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respiration rate and thumps
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How about having the horse breath into paper bag for thumping as a
result of panting and electrolyte shift:))))))) It sure worked in the
hospiatal with people. Rebreathing co2 offset the the resp. alkalosis.
a large grocery bag should work nicely:)))
Linda
Linda Eisele & Sareei and
hubby, Allen & the Iceman
& the young Lakota
nevadaghostridr@webtv.net
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:07:17 -0800
Subject: Arnica
Message-ID: <19980107.161012.12190.0.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Arnica - Is this legal? My vet recommended it the day before a ride and 2
days after.
Is this okay?
Kris
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 18:35:45 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: iggy <polstar@ll.net>
Subject: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
Hi Tracy
I was not going to post on the subject, But can't hold my tong. You
inspired me to brag.....
My best, fantastic, great, if ya want it, it is going to cost ya, short
backed pony size (to most people) no name horses under 250. cash and carry.
Mr POA who I first walked a way from for 400. and the most recent
mustang/TB cross. Beats every thing I have had so far. More than happy we
could see the potential. O'my, I admitted to only paying 250 for Mr. POA.
The secret is out, we will never live it down........ re name the horse.
No one will remember......
Not knocking expensive good papered animals (payed for some of those
too...with good genes.) Don't flame me I am just bragging about buying
wise, so far............Hee Hee Hee Then again one might think he's
junk............
Time for a story. Yup there is always a story, what can be said.
Grampa (who will be un-named ) told me" Yup my son paid between 150,000. or
200,000.(think the price goes up every time the story is told it was over
100,000. OK) for a weenling race horse at the auction a few years ago in
kentucky. My comment was "Must be one hell of a horse" His comment to me
was "NO, he was the idiot who paid that much for it. "
I always figure it is a 50 / 50 chance ya have for soundness alone by the
time they reach 4 and don't break a leg etc. etc. etc..
I always remember this when buying a horse.
Sigrid
*******************************************
>yeppers....best horse I've ever owned I paid $350 for. His daddy is in
>Scottsdale with a $2500 stud fee!
>
>tracy
The Space Cadet
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: namechange
Message-ID: <19980108.052314.14486.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:29:05 EST
My horse's name is Kaboot, NOT Kazoo. NEVER let spellcheck get hold of
your horse's name!
(Wasn't Kazoo that little Martian friend of Fred Flintstone's?)
Angie McGhee and KABOOT
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From: Jennifer Heim <JHEIM@gunder.com>
To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: More Death Valley Encounters-Long
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:30:53 -0800
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This is very long - I apologize. But RideCamp is so cathartic for me,
here goes!
Let's see....how to describe the Death Valley Encounter for
me....exhilarating, inspiring, disappointment, frustration, exhaustion,
you name it. I ran the gamut of emotions with this Encounter. The
original game plan was do day one and plan from there. A simple,
straight-forward plan. If he did one day, wonderful! If he did more,
superb! I had no lofty aspirations of finishing all four days, this was
our first multiday and I wanted us to enjoy it. We did enjoy it. I
also found myself WAY out of my endurance comfort zone. Live and learn,
and this ride was quite the learning experience.
My friend/crew, Sunman and I left the Bay Area early Friday morning and
had an uneventful trip down to Ridgecrest. Sunman will not eat and will
barely drink while traveling so I wanted to get to Ridgecrest quickly
and get him settled in with grub and drink. However, here was where I
learned my first lesson of the week. I bought a electric corral to get
us thru the week. The dream is a metal corral, but alas, this ride was
too close to Xmas for me to budget this. I turned Sun loose in his
large electric paddock; he got zapped by the fenceline and promptly
sulked in the center of the pen. Head to the ground sulking and refused
to eat or drink anything. He did nibble here and there Friday night and
throughout Saturday, but nowhere near the amount of food this guy
normally eats. He vetted in fine and I talked to the vet about his not
eating. He said Sun looked fine to start, maybe a day's riding will get
him eating again.
The ride itself was wonderful. Sun started well behind the pack and we
had a minimum of arguing about a pace. Sun gets along with the desert
great - if he spooks there's nothing to spook into. Actually, there was
little spooking, he was businesslike. So businesslike, in fact, that I
wondered if he was ok. After all, he didn't eat that much. The HRM
showed he was running very well, a good strong trot and a 110 reading.
We breezed into the lunch check, pulsed immediately and we went to the
vet. Barney, the vet, said his gut sounds were very decreased, but as
he was saying this Sun was trying to find any scrap of food he could.
He said to bring him back at the end of the hour and we'll see then.
Worked for me. If Sun didn't eat at lunch, I wasn't going to let him go
the last 20 miles anyway. However, Sun stuck his face in the hay trough
and probably didn't raise it again for 30 minutes. He inhaled his bran,
scarfed carrots and apples and when Barney evaluated him again, he
smiled and said "much better. Go have fun." And we did. His heart
rate after lunch was higher at the same working pace so I backed off for
the deep sand and rocks. We finished just at dark, vetted out well and
were give the ok to start day two.
This was where my week started to go haywire. My friend and crew
started to complain about a stomach ache after dinner and retired to
bed. No problem. I finished taking care of Sun, walked him a few times
and passed out myself. Now, I'm used to waking up to an alarm at
endurance rides. The day of the second ride I was awakened to my friend
getting sick. Joy. I would have preferred the alarm. Or Marilyn
Manson for that matter. Or maybe a good 7.0 earthquake. I got up and
gave Sun his electrolyte dose and morning bran mash. He sniffed at the
bran and walked away. New hay did not entice him. Gut sounds were
fine. Vitals were fine. Vet said he was ok. But he was my
responsibility and I made the choice: Sun would not start day two.
This turns out to have been one of the better decisions I made that
week. I loaded up Sun and we drove over the Slate Range to Ballarat.
As we crested the summit, we gazed out over the Panamint Range, the
mountain range the gang would be climbing that day. My disappointment
in not starting was immediately replaced by a voice in my head singing
"Good Call!" These were evil looking mountains. Beautiful to gaze at,
but you admire the bravery of the teams riding day two. Sun got all
settled in at Ballarat and to my immense and immediate joy, he started
to eat everything in sight and would grub for more. He turned to the
water tank and drank it dry, this was followed by two more. Lesson
learned: Sun needs a day or two to settle in if we're going for
anything more than a 50. Lesson #2 learned: I should have let him stay
a couple of days in the electric paddock at home. After a blissfully
hot shower I fell asleep to the delightful sounds of Sunny chewing hay -
the most peaceful sound in the world. I awoke around 4:00p or so, and
wondered why the camp was so quiet. Ok, there were the 25-mile horses,
I saw no 50's that had started the day. When the riders did come in,
they were progressively grumpier and grumpier as they came in. A tough
day for all involved. As the last rider finished after 10:00pm, and I
was very glad I had made the right decision to take the day off.
Day Three dawned red, cold and beautiful. Sun was bewildered at getting
saddled again, but he was a dream to ride; just what I was hoping a
couple of 50's would do for him. Just a touch of contact, steering by
just the legs and weight, very much a team; it was wonderful. He got
stronger and stronger throughout the morning until we fairly loped into
the lunch check. I figured after loping in sand he'd take longer to
recover, but as he was drinking he recovered and kept dropping until
just 3 minutes after I loosened his cinch he was in the low 40's.
Hallelujah! He stuffed his face, my friend holding his lead rope and
hanging off the side of the pickup (I'm very glad she picked a spot away
from most people). Now don't think I was insisting on a sick person to
crew for me! I asked her if she wanted me to hire a driver - she said
no, she'd drive. I gave my crew supplies to Dave Chaton, Karen's (of
DreamWeaver fame) hubby; he very kindly offered to bring my things to
the check for me. Karen then asked me when I was cleared to go. She
was leaving now, but the vet noticed a slight stiffness in Weav's hind
end; Karen decided to walk the rest of the way in. I said, sure, I'll
catch up to you and Sun and I'll keep you company. I was in no real
rush. We had almost seven hours to make a very easy 15 miles, I wasn't
worried about time. I gave Sun an extra 20 minutes to eat and then left
to catch Karen. I found her around 5 miles down the trail leading Weav.
We let the boys drink and eat at the water stop and then hand-led them
all the way down a 7-mile stretch to the highway. No Karen, you didn't
complain (much) <g>. Anybody worried about their horse has gripe
rights, anyway. It was pitch black when we made it to the highway and
with a shock realized we had another 5 miles to ride down a 65-mph
highway and around 1:15 to do it in. Steph and John Teeter caught us at
the highway crossing and the four of us jogged easily down the shoulder
to the finish. Sun led the way, Karen behind with a glow stick on her
back to ward off traffic. It maybe slowed traffic down to 60 mph or so.
The day capped beautifully with Sun recovering to the low 50's as he's
doing his final trot out, by the time I have his saddle off at the
trailer he's at 40. I love this horse.
Day Four: My friend is now pretty sick. I resolve to skip day four and
take her home. However, after all the riders leave for the last day, I
notice that Sun is pretty sore on his heels from all the rocks. Barney
evaluated him and said if I didn't have to drive him home, don't. Good
enough for me. My friend gave me a look that could curdle cement when I
told her that we weren't leaving until the next day. But she's a human
and can think for herself. Sun is my responsibility and I have to do
the thinking for two. After all that he did for me, an extra day was
the least I could do for him.
All in all, it was a wonderful experience. As I was heading to the café
for some much needed caffeine and carbo infusion, I asked myself to sum
up DVE. Disappointing, I told myself. Then the wiser side of me kicked
in and yelled "Jen! You got to watch beautiful sunrises and sunsets
from the back of your horse! He completed not one, but two 50's, and
you two haven't completed a ride since March! You got a rush seeing the
camp buzzed by F-18s! You got to spend blissful hours just you and your
boy all by yourself in a magnificent desert with all-encompassing views!
You were thrilled with his fantastic recoveries! You got to test your
meddle in a fantastic setting and you want to do more! You're not sore,
in fact, you're pretty thrilled you haven't taken one painkiller all
week! Grow up, girl!" Sometimes, I can be pretty clueless.
Let's see, some lessons learned:
Lesson #1: Scuba gloves. If you're going to be messing around with
freezing water, get scuba gloves and your hands won't be splitting and
chapping.
Lesson #2: Let Sun have a full two days to get settled in if it's a
longer ride than a 50. Put him in the electric corral at least
overnight at home before the ride.
Lesson #3: Even in cold weather, Sun needs twice the electrolytes as
the normal horse. I believe this doubling the dosage of electros for
this guy is what helped his recover so well at this event.
Lesson #4: Crew should be required to bring a health certificate.
Lesson #5: Cell phones don't work in the desert.
Lesson #6: Don't leave the trailer halogens on for hours. Truck almost
didn't start.
Lesson #7: When's XP?
Thanks for letting me talk, guys. It was truly fun, it really was!
Jen & the Sunman (560 miles!)
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Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:54:49 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
cc: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Out of Control
In-Reply-To: <c=US%a=_%p=CA%l=CA/TCAHQPO/0005066B@trade.commerce.ca.gov>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.96.980107164838.24701B-100000@delta1.deltanet.com>
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On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Blankenship, Ann wrote:
> circles. Don't neckrein, just pull one rein out to the side (can't
> evade that!) so that if he decides to move anywhere on his own, he can
> only go in circles. He's doing it to himself. You don't have to jerk.
Actually, there are plenty of horses out there (I have ridden a few) who
are perfectly content to jig or gallop down the trail with their head
turned to the side....and there are some horses out their with necks that
are strong enough that your arm/s are not strong enough to turn the nose
to the side (been there and done that one too).
I has been my experience that the worst thing in the world to do to a
horse that gets "separation anxiety" is to separate it. I find it far
better to let it drop back a little bit at a time (so that the other
horses are still in sight) until the horse becomes comfortable with little
bits of separation at a time.
This too is a LONG process as it may take you six months to a year to get
the horse to feel comfortable with nothing but your company (BTW: this is
what you are trying to teach him...he's not alone...he's with you). Until
that time, the trick is to choose your riding companions carefully :)
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 19:18:47 -0600 (CST)
To: krisolko@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Arnica
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Kris,
Hi!! Yes, I would highly recommend Arnica!! It's an herb, we find it at our
health
store in gel form.. there are also tabs available... We have one mare that
always
gets tight in her back legs, so we put that on her!! Especially after she
has finished
100 miles!! It is also great for you!! Big Red stepped on my foot, I put
Arnica on it,
the swelling and pain was gone the next day.. We gave some to a friend of
ours
she was trotting her horse out at a vet check, she fell in a hole and
sprained her ankle.. She loved it!!
Hope this helps, we would not live without it, I hope they do not stopping
making it!!
Diane Fruth and Sardius ( you are taking me where)....
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From: Chelle Sherman <c.sherman@connriver.net>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: bit evasive pulling
Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:46:30 -0500
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Hi Ray - this has probably already been suggested, but how about =
experimenting with a mechanical hackamore? A horse that goes behind the =
vertical can evade a bit, but the hackamore pinches off his rocket fuel =
(otherwise known as air). Perhaps that will get his attention. I agree =
with you that this is probably an isolated habit, not a symptom of you =
being lower on the food chain. He tried it, it worked, and he's smart =
enough to remember. I also agree that the circling technique may have =
potential. Another avenue worth exploring may be his balance. A lugging =
horse is on the forehand, even when he tucks his head. If you can get =
him to round his back and sit down on his haunches, he won't be able to =
avoid you. He can't round his back and flex his hip without telescoping =
his neck - all those muscles are connected. So, I guess what I'm saying =
is, short term, try a hackamore. Long term, teach him to come on the bit =
properly and you'll be able to stop him whenever and wherever you need =
to. Hope this helps.
Chelle in slushy Vermont
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 20:58:53 -0600
To: iggy <polstar@ll.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
In-Reply-To: <v03007804b0d9b65720a1@[206.9.135.18]>
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A friend and I went horse shopping last year about this time. We both
wanted horses around $1000 or less. I knew that was going to be difficult,
given what I wanted to do with a horse, but we have the "struck by
lighting" theory. Never pay more for a horse than you can afford to lose if
it gets struck by lightning!
Anyway, Star was an unwanted grade Arab. His previous owner died a year
before adn he was left alone in a field. He was given to a stable to be
sold. The stable owner couldn't find a buyer, even when she called him a
Quarter Horse!. She took him to the sale barn, and the highest bidder was a
killer. She brought Star back home and began firing me emails that I had to
come see this horse.
I went from Kansas City to Oklahoma City to see him. He didn't look like
much at first and had a little attitude when I tried to ride him, but
somethign said to take this horse. I probably paid too much, given his
condition, $800, but he has turned out very nicely. Once we got past the
new horse jitters, and he learned what his job was, he just got better and
better.
And PRETTY. When he shed out and got some good feed and vitamins in him, he
turned gorgeous, very classic bay Arab -- small, dished face, black points
on his face, curved neck, short back, high tail carriage, strong legs and
feet. He's quick as a cat on his feet, somethign I had to get used to after
my lazy Morgan. And he's funny - what a personality.
Anyway, my throwaway horse won his first CTR (my first too). The lady who
won in the lightweight category was also on a throwaway horse she got from
the Humane Society. The lady who sold him to me has since said she would
have charged me more money if she knew how well he would work out. I
reminded her he was a diamond in the rough and it took many hours of work
to find the terrific animal.
My friend ended up spending a little more than 1,000 for her horse, but not
much more. And she got just what she wanted, a rocking chair with legs and
a tail! She has since adotped a wonderful appendix QH for $75 from Horse
Aid who is turning out to be a wonderful gentleman.
My Morgan was a freebie. I raised him from a foal. A neighbor bred his
Morgan stud to my Appy mare. I asked him what he wanted for breeding fees.
he said wait til spring and see what you get. I called him int he spring
and said I had a lovely bay colt, what are the fees. He said "don't worry
about it. He had a ball."
there's our stories.
At 06:35 PM 1/7/98 -0600, iggy wrote:
>
>Hi Tracy
>
>I was not going to post on the subject, But can't hold my tong. You
>inspired me to brag.....
>
>My best, fantastic, great, if ya want it, it is going to cost ya, short
>backed pony size (to most people) no name horses under 250. cash and carry.
>Mr POA who I first walked a way from for 400. and the most recent
>mustang/TB cross. Beats every thing I have had so far. More than happy we
>could see the potential. O'my, I admitted to only paying 250 for Mr. POA.
>The secret is out, we will never live it down........ re name the horse.
>No one will remember......
>
>Not knocking expensive good papered animals (payed for some of those
>too...with good genes.) Don't flame me I am just bragging about buying
>wise, so far............Hee Hee Hee Then again one might think he's
>junk............
>
>Time for a story. Yup there is always a story, what can be said.
>Grampa (who will be un-named ) told me" Yup my son paid between 150,000. or
>200,000.(think the price goes up every time the story is told it was over
>100,000. OK) for a weenling race horse at the auction a few years ago in
>kentucky. My comment was "Must be one hell of a horse" His comment to me
>was "NO, he was the idiot who paid that much for it. "
>
>I always figure it is a 50 / 50 chance ya have for soundness alone by the
>time they reach 4 and don't break a leg etc. etc. etc..
>
>I always remember this when buying a horse.
>
>
>Sigrid
>
>
>*******************************************
>
>>yeppers....best horse I've ever owned I paid $350 for. His daddy is in
>>Scottsdale with a $2500 stud fee!
>>
>>tracy
>
>
>The Space Cadet
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 21:05:26 -0600
To: Chelle Sherman <c.sherman@connriver.net>,
"'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: bit evasive pulling
In-Reply-To: <01BD1BB5.BF877CC0@port-1-21.fairlee.connriver.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hackamores can be wonderful tools, but remember, that the training has to
go deeper than the tools. A smart horse will be fixed by a new gadget for
awhile, but eventually he will find a way aorund the new thing, even a
hackamore.
My Morgan is 18 and has been ridden all his life with a hackamore. He's
never had a bit in his mouth and he's easy to ride. I put kids on him. But
I had an out of control Appy gelding who reared adn bucked. He broke tie
downs, headstalls, and other equipment. I tried a hackamore on him and that
shut him down from bucking for about 3 days. Then he just sucked it in,
reared up to full height and fell over on top of me. I am very lucky to be
alive, he was a very big horse.
He went to the rodeo and I bought STar.
chris
At 09:46 PM 1/7/98 -0500, Chelle Sherman wrote:
>Hi Ray - this has probably already been suggested, but how about
experimenting with a mechanical hackamore? A horse that goes behind the
vertical can evade a bit, but the hackamore pinches off his rocket fuel
(otherwise known as air). Perhaps that will get his attention. I agree with
you that this is probably an isolated habit, not a symptom of you being
lower on the food chain. He tried it, it worked, and he's smart enough to
remember. I also agree that the circling technique may have potential.
Another avenue worth exploring may be his balance. A lugging horse is on
the forehand, even when he tucks his head. If you can get him to round his
back and sit down on his haunches, he won't be able to avoid you. He can't
round his back and flex his hip without telescoping his neck - all those
muscles are connected. So, I guess what I'm saying is, short term, try a
hackamore. Long term, teach him to come on the bit properly and you'll be
able to stop him whenever and wherever you need to. Hope this helps.
>Chelle in slushy Vermont
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 22:33:35 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
Reply-To: Lynne@Glazer.org
Organization: Lynne Glazer Microsystems
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To: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
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Subject: Re: Warner Springs
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Sandy,
Good luck finding something nicely waterproof, try REI since they're
having a large after holiday sale. That's where my shell came from. I
layered it over a thinsulate jacket for Oak Springs.
The most important lesson learned about water from the Oak Springs ride
was that I should have paid attention to waterproofing my boots.
Wearing wool socks was good since my feet stayed warm even though the
boots were wet. I changed from the Roper Horseshoes to the Ariat Pros
at the lunch check, and that was good also. Bought a helmet cover the
night before the ride from Evelyn, so the big drips got diffused and
didn't come in the vents.
See you there. Got to dash to the Paddock Shop tommorrow, to pick up
the saddle which has been restuffed for the 3rd time since its April
purchase.
Lynne
and Rem-member Me (Not rain AGAIn?!)
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Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 23:34:04 -0800
To: trailriding@cwa.com, ridecamp@endurance.net, endurowest@sadandy.hpl.hp.com,
71352.3060@compuserve.com, Rschlim@juno.com
From: Myron & Sue Flagg <bzdgulch@ecis.com>
Subject: Yosemite--Old Age, Alas! The Cavalry to the Rescue!
I'm forwarding this because it may give some of you ideas for your ongoing
battles for trails. I will be at the meeting Friday, Jan. 9, at Concord-Mt.
Diablo Trail Ride Assn. to listen and hope to speak on the issue of
handicapped access via horseback.
Anyone who might be interested in attending the Yosemite meeting Friday,
please contact Nancy Dupont at: htrails@earthlink.net
Sue in California
>>From: "Quinn, Adda" <AQUINN@epri.com>
>>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:34:25 -0800
>>
>>Gentlemen,
>>As an ex-wilderness backpacker, now long in the tooth, pained in the
>>back, and generally too infirm to haul my personal tonnage about for
>>very long distances, it was with great concern that I learned of the
>>potential to eliminate horses and horse facilities in Yosemite. These
>>days, I can only hike 5-7 miles, without bodily complaint and failure.
>>I have discovered horses in the past 5 years to be the perfect solution
>>to getting back to where I want to be.
>>
>>You are proposing to eliminate horses and horse access just at the very
>>time when other jurisdictions have discovered how much revenue
>>equestrian pursuits can generate. In fact the East Bay Water District
>>has recently embarked on a program establishing horse camps at about 25
>>mile increments throughout their holdings to capitalize on this revenue.
>> In San Mateo County, reservations must be made ONE YEAR in advance to
>>book at the Jack Brook Horse Camp. In most cases, the equestrian
>>community has built these facilities, and helps maintain them with
>>volunteer contributions and efforts. Rather than cutting back on horse
>>activities, you might find it productive to create a master plan which
>>expands them and incorporates volunteers in trail building, horse
>>camping, volunteer patroling, and search and rescue. Failure to include
>>horses, and equestrians trails and facilities is denying the public of
>>an incredibly valuable resource--especially us old foggies who will be
>>becoming the demographic drivers of the next 30 years!
>>
>>In many counties in California, the Volunteer Horse Patrols provide a
>>wonderful cost-effective extension for local jurisdication dealing with
>>parks and recreation. Below follows a copy of a proposal which we
>>recently submitted to the SF Water Dept for use of a volunteer patrol in
>>their urban watershed property. The PUC is considering this proposal
>>now.
>>
>>I would appreciate consideration of this viewpoint in your future
>>decisions about our beloved Park. Parks are for people, people need
>>recreational pursuits...including horses. Thanks so much !!! Regards
>>from
>>
>>Adda Quinn
>>800-255-3774-2478
>>
>>PROPOSAL TO THE CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO TO INCLUDE
>>VOLUNTEER TRAIL PATROL SERVICES
>>FOR THE Peninsula WATERSHED
>>
>>November 1997
>>
>>THE PROBLEM
>>
>>In a meeting between Cheryl Davis and Joe Naras of the San Francisco
>>Water Department (SFWD) and members of the San Mateo County Voluntary
>>Trail Patrol on October 30, 1997, the following issues were identified:
>>
>>* The Preferred Alternative selected by the Public Utilities Commission
>>(PUC) for the Master Plan for San Francisco Peninsula Watershed
>>(Watershed) did not contain a recreational element sufficient to the
>>needs of citizens in San Mateo and San Francisco Counties, the Bay Area
>>at large, nor to the Board of Supervisors of the City of San Francisco
>>(SFBoS). Specifically of interest are planning elements which include
>>the potential for a golf course and more access to public lands through
>>the property, similar to trail systems available in Santa Clara and
>>Marin Counties, and the East Bay water districts.
>>* The San Francisco PUC has been asked to build expanded recreational
>>elements into the Comprehensive Management Plan which is under
>>development.
>>* While a number of publicly accessed trails are proposed, including the
>>Fifield, Cahill and Skyline Ridges, there is potential for unauthorized
>>users to encroach on internal trails as well (see SFWD maps of potential
>>recreational impacts available in Millbrae) in the 23,000 acres
>>comprising the Watershed. Equestrians are currently involved in
>>informal patrol of this area and would like to continue this service
>>until such time as it can be considered and formalized into the
>>Comprehensive Management Plan.
>>* Lacking staff, expertise in recreation management, and budget to run a
>>recreational component and control unauthorized use, the SFWD will
>>likely look toward existing public agencies such as the County of San
>>Mateo Park and Recreation Department (SMCP&R), the Mid-Peninsula
>>Regional Open Space District (MROSD), or the Golden Gate National
>>Recreational Area (GGNRA) to administer mixed use recreational programs.
>> These agencies, in turn, rely on uniformed volunteer trail patrols to
>>assist their management.
>>* While there may be challenges in balancing objectives between
>>maintaining pristine water resources and making Watershed lands
>>available to public access, there are also resources available to assist
>>the SFWD in making this transition, and eventually in actual
>>recreational management. With the opening of parts of the 23,000 acres
>>of land around Crystal Springs, the SFWD will significantly enlarge,
>>complement, and connect to an existing 55,000 acres of parks and open
>>spaces in San Mateo County. The SFWD will find a uniformed volunteer
>>trail patrol service to be an invaluable asset once recreational
>>components are added to the Comprehensive Management Plan.
>>
>>TRAINED RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE
>>
>>Equestrians were specifically invited into the Crystal Springs Water
>>Shed in 1943 to perform patrol functions, and have had security access
>>to interior trails in the Crystal Springs Watershed for the past six
>>decades, with no adverse impacts recorded. More recently, both foot and
>>mountain bike patrol members have been trained by both SMCP&R and the
>>MROSD in recognition of the value of mixed user patrols on trails.
>>These volunteer patrol efforts are currently assisting limited staff on
>>declining budgets in over 55,000 publicly held acres in San Mateo County
>>alone.
>>
>>Both SMCP&R and MROSD offer formal training programs to instruct and
>>certify trail patrol volunteers. The volunteers provide their own
>>uniforms and equipment, log patrol hours and locations, and operate
>>under the rules and auspices imposed by the property-owing agency. Both
>>SMCP&R and MROSD actively recruit volunteers as staff extensions in
>>order to defray costs and provide better public service. There are
>>never enough volunteers to patrol, build and maintain trails. If even
>>only some of the 23,000 acres of Crystal Springs Watershed is opened to
>>the public, pre-trained volunteers currently exist and will be a
>>valuable asset to the SFWD. The only thing lacking is a formal method
>>to connect this existing asset to potential SFWD recreational management
>>needs.
>>
>>PROPOSAL to INCLUDE VOLUNTEER TRAIL PATROL IN THE MANAGEMENT PLAN AS
>>RECREATIONAL LANDS OPEN
>>
>>The Volunteer Trail Patrol seeks consideration in the final
>>Comprehensive Management Plan for provision of uniformed volunteer mixed
>>user trail patrol services, not only on peripheral public access roads,
>>but on internal roads to which we have had traditional access, as well
>>as others deemed important by the SFWD to prevent unauthorized use.
>>
>> Two options have potential:
>>1. Develop a formalized Volunteer Trail Patrol program with the SFWD
>>staff along lines that will meet the needs of the Department as it
>>expands recreational access to the Watershed, or
>>2. Use existing templates and agency resources such as from SMCP&R
>>and/or MROSD
>>
>>This volunteer service is essentially AT NO COST to the SFWD. The
>>SMCP&R and MROSD provide badges and radios. These are de minimus costs
>>willingly incurred by the volunteers, if need be. Communication
>>mechanisms with field staff and formal incident report filing are the
>>primary issues which need to be discussed. A number of factors need to
>>be taken into consideration:
>>1. Volunteers do not confront...they suggest, advise and report.
>>2. Communication will be the key issue for which standards will need to
>>be developed. Will the SFWD provide radios? Will volunteers use cell
>>phones? Will written reports be submitted? When?
>>3. Volunteers will wear uniforms purchased at their own expense. They
>>will purchase chevrons or patches required to identify them with the
>>property being patrolled, or these may be provided by the Department.
>>Standard attire for MROSD and SMCP&R is khaki shirts and green
>>hats/helmets; the County provides a green windbreaker in addition while
>>the MROSD provides a vest.
>>4. For safety reasons, two people on patrol should be encouraged. At
>>least one of them would be required to be in full uniform.
>>
>>Since Volunteer Trail Patrol already has a presence and knowledge of the
>>Watershed, and since we already have existing formal relationships with
>>SMCP&R and MROSD agencies to provide volunteer trail patrol services, if
>>the City of San Francisco chooses either of these agencies to assist in
>>running its recreational component, mechanisms are currently in place to
>>proceed rapidly to formalize patrol services according to Department
>>specifications. Should another agency be selected to manage
>>recreational issues, the existing templates that we have in place with
>>these two agencies, and are in presently in negotiation on at the GGNRA,
>>could rapidly be adapted. In the interim, we request permission to
>>continue our current informal patrol activities.
>>
>>Please find enclosed information detailing requirements and orientation
>>for San Mateo County. While this attachment (not included for Yosemite)
>>is specific to equestrian patrol (94 active members), the County
>>currently provides training to volunteer foot patrol (12) and is
>>prepared to extend training to bike patrols, according to Volunteer
>>Coordinator, Ranger Lynne Fritz. Please call her at 650-599-1306 for
>>further information. . Similarly detail requirements for the
>>Mid-peninsula Regional Open Space District have equestrian patrol (12),
>>foot patrol (31), dog accompanied foot patrol (7), bike patrols (14),
>>according to Volunteer Coordinator, Paul McKowan. Please call him at
>>650-691-1200 for further information. In both cases greater numbers are
>>trained, but may be currently inactive and could be enticed to recertify
>>if needed.
>>
>>While we will, of course, continue to make our services available to any
>>of the peripheral public roads that may be opened as trails, the
>>Volunteer Trail Patrol seeks to recognize current patrol functions on
>>the existing internal trails to which we have had historic access, as
>>well as to any others trails identified either now or later, as critical
>>to assuring that unauthorized trail use does not occur outside of the
>>publicly available routes. We look forward to working with the SFWD to
>>define a formal patrol service relationship.
>>
>>Adda Quinn
>>
>>EPRI
>>aquinn@epri.com
>>(800) 255-3774 x2478
>
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6030988a.34b4c237@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 07:10:30 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: You get what you pay for!
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My children's pony Puddle Jumper (PJ) was GIVEN to us 22 years ago. At 30 she
is still a lovely pet. I've always said that if I had to pay for her, I
wouldn't have been able to afford her. SHE IS PRICELESS.
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9a69978f.34b4ce77@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:02:46 EST
To: ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Daring Kat!
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In a message dated 98-01-07 15:35:23 EST, you write:
> You're BRAVE, Kat! I've witnessed more than one horse rub his headstall
> off when the throatlatch wasn't done up right. It's so interesting
> watching the rider try to stop his horse with the bit against the horses
> neck. RODEO!
That's why I have a velcro thingy that holds the crown piece of my halter to
the crown piece of the head stall. The halter keeps the head stall (and bit)
in place & the head stall keeps the halter from dropping back on the neck when
the horse raises his head at speed.
~Nora
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:25:24 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
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To: L Eisele <nevadaghostridr@webtv.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respiration rate and thumps
References: <199801072332.PAA12487@mailtod-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>
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L Eisele wrote:
> Rebreathing co2 offset the the resp. alkalosis.
> a large grocery bag should work nicely:)))
I LIKE the idea - but I can just picture it:
Mom: approaching with large, rustling paper grocery bag.
Horse: Snooooorrrrrtttttt
Mom: See, you're breathing slower already!
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 07:22:01 -0700
From: Jim and Jo <JandKJ@netcom.ca>
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Hi,
How much training do you think should go into a 3.5 year old Arab? He
was started in ground work 2 months ago and in riding 1 month ago. We
have just started a bit of trotting during our rides as well.
Would you train a 3.5 year old to do 25 mile endurance races (not to
race them, just to compete) or is that too much as well? Any opinions
would be appreciated!
Thanks,
Jo
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 11:04:13 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Sally Spangler <stepnout@swva.net>
Subject: Re: out of control/herd-bound behavior
Herd issues have to be the primary obstacle to a comfortable working
partnership with your horse. I do delaying tactics of several kinds to
encourage both my mares to attend to me first, the herd second. Tincture of
time with patient compassionate repetition (with compassionate riding
buddies!) has been the only solution. Yep, I've been run into brush on a
horse with her head pulled around to sniff my foot--she just sidepassed
right on down the trail til obstacles stopped her. After a while that game
got old, but only after she realized the herd was not leaving her for good.
Confronted with bucking and crow hopping, I've dismounted and performed some
ground maneuvers (ala Parelli Games) with the herd moving away. I've also
simply led the horse in the opposite direction. Remount and proceed at the
tempo I choose, or return to groundwork as long as the undesirable behavior
persists. Riding solo also helps if you're up to it, since there's no other
horse for comfort--just you. If you don't have time to train until you
consistently win the argument, you set yourself up for a series of ever more
risky encounters with the horse making the decisions. My hide comes
first--even if my horse IS prettier.
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:18:34 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801081618.IAA20327@fsr.com>
Subject: Help me start NW. Arkansas rides
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Jennifer
Email: blitzkreig@webtv.net
I am very interested in starting some endurance rides in the NW Arkansas area. The area is close to Oklahoma and Missouri. I have two places in mind, one is the Magizine mountain area, the other is the Jack creek area.
Both have hills and mountains with wooded trails intersperced with natural springs and waterfalls. Please help me get something going! I would be happy nto take care of the arrangements, but I have no idea on how to go about it. Is it expensive? Will I need sponsers? Do your sanctioned rides give out points as awards or would I need prizes? I don't have a big budget
to spend on this. Also, I don't really know how to contact the riders who might be interested, i'm kind of new to the area and it's in the middle of nowhere. Could I put an advertisement on the endurance net to see if anyone would be interested in my area? Please
help me, any responses would be helpful
and appreciated! blitzkreig@webtv.net
o the actual sender listed below.
From: Jennifer
Email: blitzkreig@webtv.net
I am very interested in starti5321 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005644 06455200534 0013110 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from hotmail.com (F100.hotmail.com [207.82.250.219]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21624 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:39:51 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: JandKJ@netcom.ca, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: endurance & young horses
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 08:37:10 PST
>Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 07:22:01 -0700
>From: Jim and Jo <JandKJ@netcom.ca>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: endurance & young horses
>
>Hi,
>
>How much training do you think should go into a 3.5 year old Arab? He
>was started in ground work 2 months ago and in riding 1 month ago. We
>have just started a bit of trotting during our rides as well.
>
>Would you train a 3.5 year old to do 25 mile endurance races (not to
>race them, just to compete) or is that too much as well? Any opinions
>would be appreciated!
>
>Thanks,
>Jo
Hi Jo,
Horses under the age of 48 months are not allowed to participate in
Limited Distance (25 milers are not considered an "endurance race").
However, as long as the you train you horse slowly and put plenty of
long slow conditioning on him, he should be ready to go do a 25 miler
when he reaches 4 years old. You should add more trotting in little
increments. There are plenty of posts on "how to condition a young
horse" in the ride camp archives.
Remember, the first two years of competition should be used to put your
foundation on your horse. This means you won't "race" (i prefer to call
them rides) for at least two years. That does not mean you will poke
along either, but your plan should be to finish a ride with a horse that
has lots of energy left and who is willing to go on. The reason for
this is that the harder tissues, tendon, ligament, bone, take much
longer to condition than muscle. The average Arabian can go out and
"win" a 25 or 50 mile "race" with very little conditioning. However,
they will NOT stay sound, year after year, using that technique. Not to
mention you've trained their brain to "race", not listen to the rider.
The brain is a very difficult organ to retrain.
You should use your competions to build up the horse through progressive
loading, not to tear him down. This is done by pre-planning the speed
you plan to ride the course, given the length of the ride and the
difficulty of the terrain. This technique should be working for you on
the training trails too.
MNTBHO
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Next endurance prospects
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:46:00 -0600
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I did not see one message regarding paying the price a horse is worth.
If we are not willing to pay what a horse is worth, who is going to
keep breeding top horses?
I do not have a problem paying top dollar for a well bred horse that
a professional breeder has spent time, money, energy, and heart breeding.
If it costs $1200 a year to raise a horse, Why aren't we willing to spend
what the horse cost to raise??
If we are not willing to spend the money for these horses, the
breeders are not going to have the devotion to breed good horses.
I, too, have purchased horses for $500, those horses needed someone
who was an excellent rider, and had the time a patience to correct someone
elses mistakes. Those horses are rare and I usally spent 2 years getting
the horse to where it could do a 50 mile ride in a decent state. (I also
ended up putting at least $2500 into the horse before I did my first 50.) I
also bought $500 horses that were $100 horses and I waisted alot of time
and energy on a useless horse!!!
If we, as a group, are not willing to pay for these horses who will
be breeding are next endurance prosects????
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:38:32 -0600 (CST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "The Horse Information Center, Carolyn Koehler" <koehler@horseinfo.com>
This is a reminder to everyone that FREE Endurance-List buttons are still
available. Wearing your button to your next event or to other horse
activities is almost a guarnatee that you will meet another list member that
you wouldn't have met without your button.
You can check out the buttons at our web site or simply email me with your
snail mail address.
Carolyn Koehler
The Horse Information Center (www.horseinfo.com)
Carolyn Koehler
koehler@horseinfo.com
Webmaster/Customer Service Manager
The Russell Meerdink Company Ltd.
Publishers and Book Sellers to Horsemen Around the World
1555 S. Park Ave.
Neenah, WI 54956 USA
920-725-0955
See our Web Site www.horseinfo.com
Call or write for your free catalog of hard-to-find books & videos on
breeding and racing.
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:12:47 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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Subject: Warner Springs
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I'm not too sure what the weather will be like. We may have some rain
or not. I can't tell at this point. The ride will go rain or shine.
And either way, we hit the hot pool after the ride. See you there. I'm
leaving now to join David who has been up there since Monday marking
trail. I will not be able to respond to any email after this time. If
anyone need to get me a message or has any questions that HAVE to be
answered, you can call Warner Springs at 760/782-4200 and leave a
message and I'll pick it up next time I'm in the lodge.
Don't forget your swimsuits.
Terry
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:12:47 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <5325 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002232 06455212575 0013112 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27538 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:05:45 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:05:45 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com>
Subject: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Barb Peck
Email: bpeck@us.ibm.com
I know there's been alot of discussion on whether to pad or not and
which pads are the best over stoney
ground. But has anyone used any of the commercial hoof hardeners that are
on the market today. One in particular
has caught my attention, mainly due to
fact that it cross-links (changes the molecular bond) upon application.
I've ordered some Keratex, which I plan on using on one of my horses soles during the next riding season.
This is a patented product and widely used in England, where it's pretty damp
alot of the time.
Has anyone used this product? Especially to harden the sole and if
so, please Email me (or post to the list if this is an appropriate topic).
Thanks,
Barb
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6be24d4b.34b51735@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:13:09 EST
To: hikryrdg@evansville.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Re: Arnica
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Arnica is great, BUT it is an anti-inflammatory and as such should not be used
right before or during a ride. Anti-inflammatories are prohibited substances.
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8c95494b.34b51732@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:13:05 EST
To: trc@gte.net, Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
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I have been reading all these postings bragging about bargain horses. Your
message about paying what a horse is worth encouraged me to add my opinion.
Good breeders can only continue breeding programs specifically for endurance
horses if endurance riders are willing to pay for good endurance prospects.
Three years ago I purchased a two year old gelding from Bellesemo Arabians.
He is now five and starting to do endurance. I think he is going to be
wonderful. I paid more for him than I would have for a backyard horse, but in
the long run the difference is minimal. The purchase price is often the least
of the expenses involved with owning a horse. I hope that more endurance
riders will turn to reputable breeders when looking for a prospect so that
breeding programs can continue. Sometimes bargain hunting can be
shortsighted.
Debby
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <34e8e0d0.34b51c18@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:33:57 EST
To: polstar@ll.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
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In a message dated 98-01-07 21:48:04 EST, polstar@ll.net writes:
<<
Time for a story. Yup there is always a story, what can be said.
Grampa (who will be un-named ) told me" Yup my son paid between 150,000. or
200,000.(think the price goes up every time the story is told it was over
100,000. OK) for a weenling race horse at the auction a few years ago in
kentucky. My comment was "Must be one hell of a horse" His comment to me
was "NO, he was the idiot who paid that much for it. "
I always figure it is a 50 / 50 chance ya have for soundness alone by the
time they reach 4 and don't break a leg etc. etc. etc..
I always remember this when buying a horse.
>>
AMD, remember this, it costs just as much to feed a cheap horse as an
expensive one.
Teddy
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Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:53:07 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:53:07 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
cc: polstar@ll.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
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>
> AMD, remember this, it costs just as much to feed a cheap horse as an
> expensive one.
>
I was told by everyone around me, "buying the horse is the cheapest part
of the whole affair" -- NO KIDDING! I bought Lakota in February last
year, and spent 4 times his purchase price before Christmas. :)
I think you should pay whatever the price for the horse you find that you
REALLY want. It took me two years to find Lakota, but he's exactly what
I was looking for.
Glenda & Lakota (worth every penny and then some)
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 12:09:20 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Well, not all of us can afford to pay thousands of dollars for a
"prospect". And just because you shell out the bucks isn't any
guarantee that you will end up with a champion endurance horse!
There is a plethora of horses here in the $1000-1500 range, I guess that
supply makes it hard to pay more.
And I see horses that already have been doing rides for sale in the
$2500-3000 range....I'm afraid I'd be more willing to shell out the
bucks for them than an unproven 3 yr old.
My Dad always said there "Ain't no money in raisin horses" and I think
most breeders would agree with that... they're probably be lucky to
break even.
Just my opinion,
tracy
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:15:37 -0600 (CST)
To: Debbyly@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Re: Arnica
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Hi Debby,
Thank on the information on Arnica!! Yes, we know not to use it before or
during a ride!!!
We do use it on ourselves though especially after a cold, wet, and bad ride
day!!
Have a great day!!
Diane
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 13:23:10 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Cheryl Newbanks <horsetrails@inficad.com>
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
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Yeah, well said Glenda I found the same to be true. I bought my wonderful
horse Blue for $1000 and have since spent more then that on tack, blankets,
feeding, shoeing. The point I think we should understand is look for the
horse that is right for you, bargains aren't always bargains, but then
again all horse purchasing is a risk! I got lucky the second time, not the
first, I bought a $1000 horse that was over my head training wise. You may
find a diamond in the rough and you may not. I bought Blue 150lbs under
weight and got lucky to find a wonderful well bred arab under that bag of
bones. Once he hit his perfect weight I was lucky to have found that I
didn't have a nut ticket on my hands. I was worried that he may of been
BOMB PROOF because he has too tired and starving, lucky for me he just has
a wonderful mind.
I also agree with Tracy Stampke, here in Az there are tons of arabs in the
$1000-$1500 range. If we don't buy them they may end up in a can of dog
food. And MANY of these horses have excellent bloodlines so you know they
came from some reputable breeder at some time in their life! So what do we
do here, support the breeders so they can breed more horses, or support the
horses whom we can give good homes too? Look what happened to the arab
market when the breeders flooded it in the 80's. It is still flooded here
in AZ. Any week, anytime I can look in one of the local papers and find
quite a few horses in that cheaper price range. I can drive down the
street and see arabs just standing in people's back yards forgotten. So
hey its apples vs oranges. Which came first the chicken or the egg. Yes
with out reputable breeders we wouldn't have these wonderful horses, but
yes there are tons of PERFECTLY bred arabs out there for dirt cheap whom we
can give another chance at life to! Tracy isn't your $350 arab bask line
bred???
Just my $.02 worth!
Cheryl Newbanks
~~ ^ ^ Just In Time Ranch
~~~\ _ ~~/ /\ / Buckeye, AZ
( )__ ) ' ' horsetrails@inficad.com
// \\
// \\
** **
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:36:17 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801082036.AA01960@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net, rayo@cfw.com
Subject: groundwork vs. riding
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Ray,
I am not a big proponent of ground work (because I still have a cowboy
view I guess, and I want to be up on the horse riding <g>) I do
insist on enough ground manners that I can do neccessary ground handling
like saddling, treating wounds, etc. safely and ride vets don't run the
other way when they see me coming <g>. I tend to think if you only have
a problem with a horse when you are riding it you need to solve the problem
from the saddle.
However I do have to comment that a horse who follows you around like
a dog, is an angel in hand, and responds quickly to ground work is NOT
neccessarily respecting you on the ground. I had a QH once that was
very easy to handle on the ground - picked up longing right away, caught
on immediately to being led with soft rope around a leg etc. BUT this
horse did NOT respect me on the ground - he once shied at nothing while
being groomed and knocked me down. As my farrier/horsetrainer said
(a horse that respects you would never bump into you - anymore than they
would bump into the alpha mare in a herd.) So I would say you need to
evaluate how your horse is behaving with you on the ground - Is he
respecting your "space" or does he just push right up to you. If he
is not respecting your space on the ground then some kind of "natural
horsemanship" work on the ground probably is needed.
Teresa
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 15:21:41 -0500
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Subject: Suspensory Question
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The ride vet at a CTR told me that my horse had sore suspensories and
that you could tell they were sore by squeezing them. She said that, if
when you squeeze them, the horse flinches the suspensory is sore. So I
faithfully did that technique for weeks and it indicated that my mare
was still sore even though she was kicking up her heels in the pasture.
I, of course, was not riding her during that time. Finally, I had my
home vet come out and he said that she is sound and that if you squeeze
any horse's suspensories that they will flinch. So what's the scoop
with that? Any ideas?
Karen
Ormond Beach
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:14:17 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801082114.NAA03669@fsr.com>
Subject: Beginner
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Simone Jordon
Email: simimaus@webtv.net
Right now I'm just a Pleasure rider. But I'm becomming more and more interested in Endurance riding. Does anyone have some tips for me how to get started and what kind of outfit I need for horse and rider? Also I'd like to find out what would be the best way to start out the training for a 10 month old Draft/Painthorse filly. Any help is very appreciated.
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'simimaus@webtv.net'" <simimaus@webtv.net>,
"ridecamp@endurance.net"
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Beginner
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:40:15 -0800
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Simone - there is a wealth of information on the Endurance Net
and AERC homepages.=20
http://www.endurance.net - Endurance Net
http://www.aerc.org - American Endurance Ride Conference
You could spend hours.. make that days.. at these=20
websites - more than you ever wanted to know I suspect :)
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: guest@endurance.net [SMTP:guest@endurance.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 1:14 PM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Beginner
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Simone Jordon=20
Email: simimaus@webtv.net
Right now I'm just a Pleasure rider. But I'm becomming more and more =
interested in Endurance riding. Does anyone have some tips for me how to =
get started and what kind of outfit I need for horse and rider? Also I'd =
like to find out what would be the best way to start out the training =
for a 10 month old Draft/Painthorse filly. Any help is very appreciated.
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:53:07 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "C.M.Newell" <reshan@deyr.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Suspensory Question
In-Reply-To: <34B5354F.7128@n-jcenter.com>
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At 03:21 PM 1/8/98 -0500, mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com wrote:
> ...Finally, I had my
>home vet come out and he said that she is sound and that if you squeeze
>any horse's suspensories that they will flinch. So what's the scoop
>with that? Any ideas?
>
I have had the same experience. Many horses will react in this fashion,
even though sound. It helps to know the horse--then you can detect an
increase in sensitivity, as opposed to the baseline "Hey! Cut that out!"
that a sound horse can give you.
--CMNewell, DVM
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:48:13 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
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Cheryl Newbanks wrote:
> yes there are tons of PERFECTLY bred arabs out there for dirt cheap whom we
> can give another chance at life to! Tracy isn't your $350 arab bask line
> bred???
Yep, he's by a double Bask stud (Bask daughter x Bask son) and out of a
Naborr daughter. His daddy is used to breed Park horse, thank goodness
Pro didn't get any of that! He looks just like Naborr in every way.
(well, minus a few appendages) <G>
I think it may very well be the fact that we are so close to Scottsdale
that we have so many cheap Arabs running around. I saw an El Sharif
daughter sell for $300 at a auction once. Heck, go to the sales at
Grandon's Arabians.....you can pick up some of the most well known
bloodlines for *under* $1000! Lots of them are even sweepstakes
nominated. They sell for way under the stud fee it cost to produce
them.
You have to be careful no matter wheteher you buy a $500 horse or a
$5000 one. My point was that price is no definite indication of quality
when it comes to live animals.
tracy
mp@endurance.net>; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:51:56 -0500 (EST)
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:48:13 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:43:46 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
CC: iggy <polstar@ll.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
References: <tcppop3.795544@mercury.ll.net> <3.0.1.32.19980107205853.00b5054c@mail.micoks.net>
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Some one once told me that ALL horses worth throwing a saddle on cost
$5000 at the very least. Either you can 1) buy a ready-made horse that
costs that much or more, or 2) you can breed and raise your own and
spend that much feeding it until it's ready to ride, or 3) you can buy a
green-broke/rough/mystery horse for $100/$400/enter dirt cheap price
here and spend that much either in getting someone else to train it for
you or in spending that amount in your own time in training and
conditioning until you have a finished horse. The only difference is in
how, when and in what currency do you want to pay out the money.
I always thought it was an intersting point and probably not too far off
the mark.
Susan Garlinghouse
Chris Paus wrote:
>
> A friend and I went horse shopping last year about this time. We both
> wanted horses around $1000 or less. I knew that was going to be difficult,
> given what I wanted to do with a horse, but we have the "struck by
> lighting" theory. Never pay more for a horse than you can afford to lose if
> it gets struck by lightning!
>
> Anyway, Star was an unwanted grade Arab. His previous owner died a year
> before adn he was left alone in a field. He was given to a stable to be
> sold. The stable owner couldn't find a buyer, even when she called him a
> Quarter Horse!. She took him to the sale barn, and the highest bidder was a
> killer. She brought Star back home and began firing me emails that I had to
> come see this horse.
>
> I went from Kansas City to Oklahoma City to see him. He didn't look like
> much at first and had a little attitude when I tried to ride him, but
> somethign said to take this horse. I probably paid too much, given his
> condition, $800, but he has turned out very nicely. Once we got past the
> new horse jitters, and he learned what his job was, he just got better and
> better.
>
> And PRETTY. When he shed out and got some good feed and vitamins in him, he
> turned gorgeous, very classic bay Arab -- small, dished face, black points
> on his face, curved neck, short back, high tail carriage, strong legs and
> feet. He's quick as a cat on his feet, somethign I had to get used to after
> my lazy Morgan. And he's funny - what a personality.
>
> Anyway, my throwaway horse won his first CTR (my first too). The lady who
> won in the lightweight category was also on a throwaway horse she got from
> the Humane Society. The lady who sold him to me has since said she would
> have charged me more money if she knew how well he would work out. I
> reminded her he was a diamond in the rough and it took many hours of work
> to find the terrific animal.
>
> My friend ended up spending a little more than 1,000 for her horse, but not
> much more. And she got just what she wanted, a rocking chair with legs and
> a tail! She has since adotped a wonderful appendix QH for $75 from Horse
> Aid who is turning out to be a wonderful gentleman.
>
> My Morgan was a freebie. I raised him from a foal. A neighbor bred his
> Morgan stud to my Appy mare. I asked him what he wanted for breeding fees.
> he said wait til spring and see what you get. I called him int he spring
> and said I had a lovely bay colt, what are the fees. He said "don't worry
> about it. He had a ball."
>
> there's our stories.
>
> At 06:35 PM 1/7/98 -0600, iggy wrote:
> >
> >Hi Tracy
> >
> >I was not going to post on the subject, But can't hold my tong. You
> >inspired me to brag.....
> >
> >My best, fantastic, great, if ya want it, it is going to cost ya, short
> >backed pony size (to most people) no name horses under 250. cash and carry.
> >Mr POA who I first walked a way from for 400. and the most recent
> >mustang/TB cross. Beats every thing I have had so far. More than happy we
> >could see the potential. O'my, I admitted to only paying 250 for Mr. POA.
> >The secret is out, we will never live it down........ re name the horse.
> >No one will remember......
> >
> >Not knocking expensive good papered animals (payed for some of those
> >too...with good genes.) Don't flame me I am just bragging about buying
> >wise, so far............Hee Hee Hee Then again one might think he's
> >junk............
> >
> >Time for a story. Yup there is always a story, what can be said.
> >Grampa (who will be un-named ) told me" Yup my son paid between 150,000. or
> >200,000.(think the price goes up every time the story is told it was over
> >100,000. OK) for a weenling race horse at the auction a few years ago in
> >kentucky. My comment was "Must be one hell of a horse" His comment to me
> >was "NO, he was the idiot who paid that much for it. "
> >
> >I always figure it is a 50 / 50 chance ya have for soundness alone by the
> >time they reach 4 and don't break a leg etc. etc. etc..
> >
> >I always remember this when buying a horse.
> >
> >
> >Sigrid
> >
> >
> >*******************************************
> >
> >>yeppers....best horse I've ever owned I paid $350 for. His daddy is in
> >>Scottsdale with a $2500 stud fee!
> >>
> >>tracy
> >
> >
> >The Space Cadet
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:56:20 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801082356.AA01973@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: linaments and multi-day rides
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Hi,
I've been wondering whether it is okay to use linamints after each day of
a multiday ride. I'm planning to try and do a few this year and I would
like to do all I can for Grey's legs. Is the linament action considered
short enough term that it is okay to use at night after the final vet
check for that day's ride? (I'm specifically thinking of Roger's recipe
which has some menthol in it from the "brown mouth wash".)
Also is there a list or guideline sheet for prohibited substances and
how many days or hours pre-ride you need to avoid them? The only thing
I've ever seen was something someone had e-mailed to ridecamp.
Teresa
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 19:13:01 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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To: Teresa Van Hove <vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: groundwork vs. riding
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Teresa Van Hove wrote:
>
> Ray,
>
> I am not a big proponent of ground work (because I still have a cowboy
> view I guess, and I want to be up on the horse riding <g>) I do
> insist on enough ground manners that I can do neccessary ground handling
> like saddling, treating wounds, etc. safely and ride vets don't run the
> other way when they see me coming <g>. I tend to think if you only have
> a problem with a horse when you are riding it you need to solve the problem
> from the saddle.
>
> However I do have to comment that a horse who follows you around like
> a dog, is an angel in hand, and responds quickly to ground work is NOT
> neccessarily respecting you on the ground. I had a QH once that was
> very easy to handle on the ground - picked up longing right away, caught
> on immediately to being led with soft rope around a leg etc. BUT this
> horse did NOT respect me on the ground - he once shied at nothing while
> being groomed and knocked me down. As my farrier/horsetrainer said
> (a horse that respects you would never bump into you - anymore than they
> would bump into the alpha mare in a herd.) So I would say you need to
> evaluate how your horse is behaving with you on the ground - Is he
> respecting your "space" or does he just push right up to you. If he
> is not respecting your space on the ground then some kind of "natural
> horsemanship" work on the ground probably is needed.
>
> TeresaVery good points! My guy DID bump sideways into me once-the spook was
legitimate,tho.He comes up to me,but never crowds me.He does tend to
urinate in 2 situations-when I go into the barn to feed him,or,when I
come out of the house to feed him down here. I think this is an
accidental/coincidental learned response on his part,but read somewhere
recently that geldings do some territorial urinating in freshly cleaned
stalls.So I'm fighting fire with fire,just in case! But no,he respects me
on the ground.Thanks again.
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:30:46 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801090030.QAA13735@fsr.com>
Subject: AERC Continuing Education Program for Vets
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: MaryAnne Bobrow
Email: aerc@foothill.net
Hi Everyone.
Please check out AERC's web pages for an update on the CEU Program for Vets, held in conjunction with AERC's Convention in Lexington, Kentucky.
AERC's address is www.aerc.org.
It has just come to my attention, however, that the Gluck tour is NOT optional (it was at the beginning). Part of the CEU program IS the actual tour. Brad Bense will be doing an EPM update during the course of the Gluck tour so be sure to factor those morning hours in if you plan on participating in the CEU program. We'll also be sending out written clarification.
MaryAnne Bobrow
AERC National Office
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <31a4dcd.34b56f01@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:27:44 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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Thank you Debby, Shelly, and Susan for your support of those breeders who have
spent countless hours researching bloodlines of horses that are extremely
successful and comparing them to bloodlines of those that clearly don't make
it. Many of us have spent decades devoted to breeding sane, sound WORKING
athletes and paying attention to metabolic traits and lots of other things
that you can't see from the outside. There are not a lot of us out there, but
there are a few more of us all the time. I think some of you would be
surprised at what constitutes a "good" endurance pedigree. Just like the
Impressive-bred Quarter Horses don't make it in the Doc Bar world of cutting
cows, many of our "well-bred" show horses have inherent problems when
subjected to miles and miles of aerobic exercise year after year.
Many of you have made the points that good ones don't cost any more to keep
than poor ones, and that the purchase price is the least of the expenses you
will have over the years. I would take that one step further and say that the
good ones cost considerably LESS to keep than the poor ones--less vet bills,
less feed supplements, less trips to the chiropractor, less time laid up (you
might save some on entry fees and travel for the rides you DON'T get to), less
tack and saddles trying for that "right" fit--and perhaps the most important
saving is in the longevity, as with good care, your good prospect should last
you well into his or her teens, and not need to be replaced for a long time.
There are certainly good horses out there at "bargain" prices, as many non-
endurance people simply don't know what they have in their backyards.
However, if you shop for bargains, you have to really know what you need to
look for in a prospect, or it could be the most expensive investment you ever
make.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <de339950.34b570cd@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:35:24 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Suspensory question
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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Like Dr. Newell, I have also encountered some horses that are more touchy than
others about their suspensory ligaments. In most cases that are problems, one
will be more sore than the other, so one gets more of a response on one side
than the other. When evaluating horses at rides who appear to be "off", I
always check both sides and compare the reactions.
If in doubt, a horse with touchy suspensory ligaments should have his or her
ligaments and tendons ultrasounded to check for the presence of small tears or
other injuries.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <491ececf.34b57015@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:32:20 EST
To: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: linaments and multi-day rides
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Hi, Teresa--
It is hard to advise on specific linaments since there are so many out there.
Many (if not most) have ingredients that can be absorbed through the skin and
can cause positive blood tests. Check with Dr. Beecher (chairman of the AERC
veterinary committee--address on the inside cover of every Endurance News) for
a list of common prohibited substances--keep in mind that the list DOES NOT
include everything! If in doubt, show the label of the product(s) you plan to
use to a veterinarian familiar with pharmaceuticals and endurance riding.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 16:48:22 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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Anybody have any good tips for keeping your feet dry while riding in the
rain?
Lauren
who is thinking of tieing baggies around my feet ;-)
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:49:49 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
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CMKSAGEHIL wrote:
>
> Thank you Debby, Shelly, and Susan for your support of those breeders who have
> spent countless hours researching bloodlines of horses that are extremely
> successful and comparing them to bloodlines of those that clearly don't make
Please don't think I was disrespecting any breeder with a thought out
program that produces good endurance horses.
The point that I was making is that I can't *afford* most of those
horses! Yes, I realize what it costs to produce and raise them (which
is why I don't do it). So if it comes down to me riding a bargain
basement horse, or not riding at all......well, not much of a choice <G>
tracy
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Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:00:45 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801090100.RAA17399@fsr.com>
Subject: AERC Convention
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: MaryAnne Bobrow
Email: aerc@foothill.net
Hi Everyone.
I should have a "pretty" convention update tomorrow that we'll post at AERC's web site. In the meantime, I did want to give you a rundown of tentative dates and times -- at least as far as the speakers are concerned. Committees are still trying to decide on their times and I'll update those as well.
Don't forget that the Trade Show held at AERC's Convention is FREE OF CHARGE to everyone; it's the seminars that there's a fee for. AERC has great vendors -- both new and returning -- and you absolutely MUST make time for them and yourself. We like to think of the vendors as having everything you need for both the horse and the rider!
Here's the lineup of speakers:
Thursday, January 22, 1998:
6:00 PM - Paul Summler
7:00 PM - Jeannie Waldron
8:00 PM - Dr. Nancy Loving
7:00 PM - AERC Board of Directors' meeting
Friday, January 23, 1998:
7:30 AM - Registration begins
8:00 AM - USET/AHSA meetings
(tentative)
8:00 AM - Trade Show Opens
8 AM - Noon: Veterinarian Tour of Gluck Center and EPM Update from Brad Bense
8:30 AM - Attorney Gena McCann
10:00 AM - Dr. Steve Duran
11:00 AM - Valerie Kanavy
Noon - Mimi Porter (Equine Therapy)
1 PM - 4 PM - CEU Program for Vets
1:30 PM - Dr. Kathleen Crandall
2:30 PM - Dr. Joe Pagan
3:30 PM = Endurance Riders' Panel (Danielle Kanavy, Roger Blalock, Earle Baxter, and Beck Hart; Stagg Newman, Moderator)
4:00 PM - Veterinary Committee meeting
5:30 PM - 7:00 PM No host Bar but music and a keg of beer sponsored by the Daniel Boone Distance Riders!
7:00 PM - 9:00 PM Awards Dinner
9 PM - Midnight: AERC/Ride & Tie Co-sponsored dance. Music provided by great DJ's from Grooves on the Move. Karaoke starts at 10 PM!
Saturday, January 24, 1998
7:00 AM - USET meeting (tentative)
7:30 AM - Registration opens
8:00 AM - Trade Show opens
8:00 AM - Installation of Officers
8:30 AM - General Session (Open Mike)
10:00 AM - Keynote Address by Dr. Thomas Tobin
Noon - Shirley McQuillen (tentative)
1:30 PM - Dr. Mike Foss
3:00 PM - Dr. Lani Newcomb
4:00 PM - Limited Distance program (First time ever!)
6:00 PM - No host cocktail hour
7:00 PM - National Awards dinner
Sunday, January 25, 1998
7:30 AM - AERC Board of Directors meeting.
A complete listing will be coming tomorrow.
MaryAnne
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Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:12:34 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:12:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: stirrup straightener/adaptor
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Looking through yet another catalog I got in the mail (does everyone else
get as many of these as I do? :), I saw Stirrup Straight, an adaptor that
you stick in the stirrup to turn it out. I remember someone recently was
looking for these, thought I'd pass along this info:
found in "Country Supply, Inc." catalog, phone 1-800-637-6721
This is NOT an endorsement, as I don't know anyone who's ever tried these.
Glenda & Lakota
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Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:12:34 -0600
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:12:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: stirrup straightener/adaptor
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 19:50:52 -0600
To: Myron & Sue Flagg <bzdgulch@ecis.com>, trailriding@cwa.com,
ridecamp@endurance.net, endurowest@sadandy.hpl.hp.com,
71352.3060@compuserve.com, Rschlim@juno.com
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Yosemite--Old Age, Alas! The Cavalry to the Rescue!
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980108073404.006b2fd0@ecis.com>
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This battle is interesting to me in Kansas. On a smaller scale, we are
trying to get a state park near our homes to reopen a horse trail. The
trail was originally cut by horse people (with permission). Then a new
range came ont he scene and decided she wanted that trail just for hikers
and mountain bikes.
My training buddy and I rode that trail dozens of times this summer and
NEVER saw a mountain bike, and saw walkers only once. And they were
thrilled to see and pet our horses. It's the pits.
chris paus & star
At 11:34 PM 1/7/98 -0800, Myron & Sue Flagg wrote:
>I'm forwarding this because it may give some of you ideas for your ongoing
>battles for trails. I will be at the meeting Friday, Jan. 9, at Concord-Mt.
>Diablo Trail Ride Assn. to listen and hope to speak on the issue of
>handicapped access via horseback.
>
>Anyone who might be interested in attending the Yosemite meeting Friday,
>please contact Nancy Dupont at: htrails@earthlink.net
>
> Sue in California
>
>>>From: "Quinn, Adda" <AQUINN@epri.com>
>>>Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 16:34:25 -0800
>>>
>>>Gentlemen,
>>>As an ex-wilderness backpacker, now long in the tooth, pained in the
>>>back, and generally too infirm to haul my personal tonnage about for
>>>very long distances, it was with great concern that I learned of the
>>>potential to eliminate horses and horse facilities in Yosemite. These
>>>days, I can only hike 5-7 miles, without bodily complaint and failure.
>>>I have discovered horses in the past 5 years to be the perfect solution
>>>to getting back to where I want to be.
>>>
>>>You are proposing to eliminate horses and horse access just at the very
>>>time when other jurisdictions have discovered how much revenue
>>>equestrian pursuits can generate. In fact the East Bay Water District
>>>has recently embarked on a program establishing horse camps at about 25
>>>mile increments throughout their holdings to capitalize on this revenue.
>>> In San Mateo County, reservations must be made ONE YEAR in advance to
>>>book at the Jack Brook Horse Camp. In most cases, the equestrian
>>>community has built these facilities, and helps maintain them with
>>>volunteer contributions and efforts. Rather than cutting back on horse
>>>activities, you might find it productive to create a master plan which
>>>expands them and incorporates volunteers in trail building, horse
>>>camping, volunteer patroling, and search and rescue. Failure to include
>>>horses, and equestrians trails and facilities is denying the public of
>>>an incredibly valuable resource--especially us old foggies who will be
>>>becoming the demographic drivers of the next 30 years!
>>>
>>>In many counties in California, the Volunteer Horse Patrols provide a
>>>wonderful cost-effective extension for local jurisdication dealing with
>>>parks and recreation. Below follows a copy of a proposal which we
>>>recently submitted to the SF Water Dept for use of a volunteer patrol in
>>>their urban watershed property. The PUC is considering this proposal
>>>now.
>>>
>>>I would appreciate consideration of this viewpoint in your future
>>>decisions about our beloved Park. Parks are for people, people need
>>>recreational pursuits...including horses. Thanks so much !!! Regards
>>>from
>>>
>>>Adda Quinn
>>>800-255-3774-2478
>>>
>>>PROPOSAL TO THE CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO TO INCLUDE
>>>VOLUNTEER TRAIL PATROL SERVICES
>>>FOR THE Peninsula WATERSHED
>>>
>>>November 1997
>>>
>>>THE PROBLEM
>>>
>>>In a meeting between Cheryl Davis and Joe Naras of the San Francisco
>>>Water Department (SFWD) and members of the San Mateo County Voluntary
>>>Trail Patrol on October 30, 1997, the following issues were identified:
>>>
>>>* The Preferred Alternative selected by the Public Utilities Commission
>>>(PUC) for the Master Plan for San Francisco Peninsula Watershed
>>>(Watershed) did not contain a recreational element sufficient to the
>>>needs of citizens in San Mateo and San Francisco Counties, the Bay Area
>>>at large, nor to the Board of Supervisors of the City of San Francisco
>>>(SFBoS). Specifically of interest are planning elements which include
>>>the potential for a golf course and more access to public lands through
>>>the property, similar to trail systems available in Santa Clara and
>>>Marin Counties, and the East Bay water districts.
>>>* The San Francisco PUC has been asked to build expanded recreational
>>>elements into the Comprehensive Management Plan which is under
>>>development.
>>>* While a number of publicly accessed trails are proposed, including the
>>>Fifield, Cahill and Skyline Ridges, there is potential for unauthorized
>>>users to encroach on internal trails as well (see SFWD maps of potential
>>>recreational impacts available in Millbrae) in the 23,000 acres
>>>comprising the Watershed. Equestrians are currently involved in
>>>informal patrol of this area and would like to continue this service
>>>until such time as it can be considered and formalized into the
>>>Comprehensive Management Plan.
>>>* Lacking staff, expertise in recreation management, and budget to run a
>>>recreational component and control unauthorized use, the SFWD will
>>>likely look toward existing public agencies such as the County of San
>>>Mateo Park and Recreation Department (SMCP&R), the Mid-Peninsula
>>>Regional Open Space District (MROSD), or the Golden Gate National
>>>Recreational Area (GGNRA) to administer mixed use recreational programs.
>>> These agencies, in turn, rely on uniformed volunteer trail patrols to
>>>assist their management.
>>>* While there may be challenges in balancing objectives between
>>>maintaining pristine water resources and making Watershed lands
>>>available to public access, there are also resources available to assist
>>>the SFWD in making this transition, and eventually in actual
>>>recreational management. With the opening of parts of the 23,000 acres
>>>of land around Crystal Springs, the SFWD will significantly enlarge,
>>>complement, and connect to an existing 55,000 acres of parks and open
>>>spaces in San Mateo County. The SFWD will find a uniformed volunteer
>>>trail patrol service to be an invaluable asset once recreational
>>>components are added to the Comprehensive Management Plan.
>>>
>>>TRAINED RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE
>>>
>>>Equestrians were specifically invited into the Crystal Springs Water
>>>Shed in 1943 to perform patrol functions, and have had security access
>>>to interior trails in the Crystal Springs Watershed for the past six
>>>decades, with no adverse impacts recorded. More recently, both foot and
>>>mountain bike patrol members have been trained by both SMCP&R and the
>>>MROSD in recognition of the value of mixed user patrols on trails.
>>>These volunteer patrol efforts are currently assisting limited staff on
>>>declining budgets in over 55,000 publicly held acres in San Mateo County
>>>alone.
>>>
>>>Both SMCP&R and MROSD offer formal training programs to instruct and
>>>certify trail patrol volunteers. The volunteers provide their own
>>>uniforms and equipment, log patrol hours and locations, and operate
>>>under the rules and auspices imposed by the property-owing agency. Both
>>>SMCP&R and MROSD actively recruit volunteers as staff extensions in
>>>order to defray costs and provide better public service. There are
>>>never enough volunteers to patrol, build and maintain trails. If even
>>>only some of the 23,000 acres of Crystal Springs Watershed is opened to
>>>the public, pre-trained volunteers currently exist and will be a
>>>valuable asset to the SFWD. The only thing lacking is a formal method
>>>to connect this existing asset to potential SFWD recreational management
>>>needs.
>>>
>>>PROPOSAL to INCLUDE VOLUNTEER TRAIL PATROL IN THE MANAGEMENT PLAN AS
>>>RECREATIONAL LANDS OPEN
>>>
>>>The Volunteer Trail Patrol seeks consideration in the final
>>>Comprehensive Management Plan for provision of uniformed volunteer mixed
>>>user trail patrol services, not only on peripheral public access roads,
>>>but on internal roads to which we have had traditional access, as well
>>>as others deemed important by the SFWD to prevent unauthorized use.
>>>
>>> Two options have potential:
>>>1. Develop a formalized Volunteer Trail Patrol program with the SFWD
>>>staff along lines that will meet the needs of the Department as it
>>>expands recreational access to the Watershed, or
>>>2. Use existing templates and agency resources such as from SMCP&R
>>>and/or MROSD
>>>
>>>This volunteer service is essentially AT NO COST to the SFWD. The
>>>SMCP&R and MROSD provide badges and radios. These are de minimus costs
>>>willingly incurred by the volunteers, if need be. Communication
>>>mechanisms with field staff and formal incident report filing are the
>>>primary issues which need to be discussed. A number of factors need to
>>>be taken into consideration:
>>>1. Volunteers do not confront...they suggest, advise and report.
>>>2. Communication will be the key issue for which standards will need to
>>>be developed. Will the SFWD provide radios? Will volunteers use cell
>>>phones? Will written reports be submitted? When?
>>>3. Volunteers will wear uniforms purchased at their own expense. They
>>>will purchase chevrons or patches required to identify them with the
>>>property being patrolled, or these may be provided by the Department.
>>>Standard attire for MROSD and SMCP&R is khaki shirts and green
>>>hats/helmets; the County provides a green windbreaker in addition while
>>>the MROSD provides a vest.
>>>4. For safety reasons, two people on patrol should be encouraged. At
>>>least one of them would be required to be in full uniform.
>>>
>>>Since Volunteer Trail Patrol already has a presence and knowledge of the
>>>Watershed, and since we already have existing formal relationships with
>>>SMCP&R and MROSD agencies to provide volunteer trail patrol services, if
>>>the City of San Francisco chooses either of these agencies to assist in
>>>running its recreational component, mechanisms are currently in place to
>>>proceed rapidly to formalize patrol services according to Department
>>>specifications. Should another agency be selected to manage
>>>recreational issues, the existing templates that we have in place with
>>>these two agencies, and are in presently in negotiation on at the GGNRA,
>>>could rapidly be adapted. In the interim, we request permission to
>>>continue our current informal patrol activities.
>>>
>>>Please find enclosed information detailing requirements and orientation
>>>for San Mateo County. While this attachment (not included for Yosemite)
>>>is specific to equestrian patrol (94 active members), the County
>>>currently provides training to volunteer foot patrol (12) and is
>>>prepared to extend training to bike patrols, according to Volunteer
>>>Coordinator, Ranger Lynne Fritz. Please call her at 650-599-1306 for
>>>further information. . Similarly detail requirements for the
>>>Mid-peninsula Regional Open Space District have equestrian patrol (12),
>>>foot patrol (31), dog accompanied foot patrol (7), bike patrols (14),
>>>according to Volunteer Coordinator, Paul McKowan. Please call him at
>>>650-691-1200 for further information. In both cases greater numbers are
>>>trained, but may be currently inactive and could be enticed to recertify
>>>if needed.
>>>
>>>While we will, of course, continue to make our services available to any
>>>of the peripheral public roads that may be opened as trails, the
>>>Volunteer Trail Patrol seeks to recognize current patrol functions on
>>>the existing internal trails to which we have had historic access, as
>>>well as to any others trails identified either now or later, as critical
>>>to assuring that unauthorized trail use does not occur outside of the
>>>publicly available routes. We look forward to working with the SFWD to
>>>define a formal patrol service relationship.
>>>
>>>Adda Quinn
>>>
>>>EPRI
>>>aquinn@epri.com
>>>(800) 255-3774 x2478
>>
>
>
>
>>>parks and recreation. Below follows a copy of a proposal which we
>>>recently submitted to the SF Water Dept for use of a volunteer patrol in
>>>their urban watershed property. The PUC is considering this proposal
>>>now.
>>>
>>>I would appreciate consideration of this viewpoint in your future
>>>decis5351 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002072 06455302203 0013077 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from u2.farm.idt.net (root@u2.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.11]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20285 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 17:59:25 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 18:53:41 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Nancy Loving vet book
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I just got Nancy Loving's Veterinary Manual for the Performance Horse
today, and have to say it is great!
Lots of info and easy to read.
AND to make it even better, I ordered it online from www.amazon.com and
instead of paying the list price of $75, it only cost me $52.50!!!!
I *love* that place! <G>
tracy
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:00:54 -0600
To: "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
In-Reply-To: <199801081643.KAA25584@smtp1.mailsrvcs.net>
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I don't recall anyone saying they weren't WILLING to pay more for a horse,
we were just relaying stories about treasures we have found.
I certainly wouldn't sell Star for what I paid for him. I've put way to
much time and effort into his training. You are right, in that you have to
spend more money to get a push button horse that needs little work. But
some of us have more time and patience than money.
chris paus & the starman
At 10:46 AM 1/8/98 -0600, Shelley @ TRC wrote:
> I did not see one message regarding paying the price a horse is worth.
> If we are not willing to pay what a horse is worth, who is going to
>keep breeding top horses?
> I do not have a problem paying top dollar for a well bred horse that
>a professional breeder has spent time, money, energy, and heart breeding.
>If it costs $1200 a year to raise a horse, Why aren't we willing to spend
>what the horse cost to raise??
> If we are not willing to spend the money for these horses, the
>breeders are not going to have the devotion to breed good horses.
> I, too, have purchased horses for $500, those horses needed someone
>who was an excellent rider, and had the time a patience to correct someone
>elses mistakes. Those horses are rare and I usally spent 2 years getting
>the horse to where it could do a 50 mile ride in a decent state. (I also
>ended up putting at least $2500 into the horse before I did my first 50.) I
>also bought $500 horses that were $100 horses and I waisted alot of time
>and energy on a useless horse!!!
> If we, as a group, are not willing to pay for these horses who will
>be breeding are next endurance prosects????
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:04:51 -0600
To: zebella@idt.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
In-Reply-To: <34B52460.780@idt.net>
References: <8c95494b.34b51732@aol.com>
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After going to a few horse auctions, I think we can thank the killers for
driving up the price of horses so the average person has a hard time making
that purchase.
I realize breeders have to pay for stud fees, vet care, horse feed,
training time, etc., adn must recoup that in the young stock they sell.
but, some of us aren't cheapskates, we just haven't won Powerball yet!
chris paus & star
At 12:09 PM 1/8/98 -0700, Zebella wrote:
>Well, not all of us can afford to pay thousands of dollars for a
>"prospect". And just because you shell out the bucks isn't any
>guarantee that you will end up with a champion endurance horse!
>
>There is a plethora of horses here in the $1000-1500 range, I guess that
>supply makes it hard to pay more.
>
>And I see horses that already have been doing rides for sale in the
>$2500-3000 range....I'm afraid I'd be more willing to shell out the
>bucks for them than an unproven 3 yr old.
>
>My Dad always said there "Ain't no money in raisin horses" and I think
>most breeders would agree with that... they're probably be lucky to
>break even.
>
>Just my opinion,
>
>tracy
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:08:27 -0600
To: "C.M.Newell" <reshan@deyr.ultranet.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Suspensory Question
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980108165307.0096f7f0@pop.ma.ultranet.com>
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I had ride vets tell me my horse was sore because when they touched his
pastern, he picked his feet up. My farrier laughed and said this horse is
just so well trained that he picks his feet up right away, without any
effort. The horse was just complying with what he thought was a cue!
chris paus & star
At 04:53 PM 1/8/98 -0500, C.M.Newell wrote:
>At 03:21 PM 1/8/98 -0500, mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com wrote:
>> ...Finally, I had my
>>home vet come out and he said that she is sound and that if you squeeze
>>any horse's suspensories that they will flinch. So what's the scoop
>>with that? Any ideas?
>>
>
> I have had the same experience. Many horses will react in this fashion,
>even though sound. It helps to know the horse--then you can detect an
>increase in sensitivity, as opposed to the baseline "Hey! Cut that out!"
>that a sound horse can give you.
> --CMNewell, DVM
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:10:19 -0600
To: zebella@idt.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
In-Reply-To: <34B54990.5453@idt.net>
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You guys are lucky in AZ. Sale barn horses here go for about 80 cents a
pound, so you'll almost never get even a young horse for $350, unless it
has only 3 legs....
chris paus & star
At 02:48 PM 1/8/98 -0700, Zebella wrote:
>Cheryl Newbanks wrote:
>> yes there are tons of PERFECTLY bred arabs out there for dirt cheap whom we
>> can give another chance at life to! Tracy isn't your $350 arab bask line
>> bred???
>
>Yep, he's by a double Bask stud (Bask daughter x Bask son) and out of a
>Naborr daughter. His daddy is used to breed Park horse, thank goodness
>Pro didn't get any of that! He looks just like Naborr in every way.
>(well, minus a few appendages) <G>
>
>I think it may very well be the fact that we are so close to Scottsdale
>that we have so many cheap Arabs running around. I saw an El Sharif
>daughter sell for $300 at a auction once. Heck, go to the sales at
>Grandon's Arabians.....you can pick up some of the most well known
>bloodlines for *under* $1000! Lots of them are even sweepstakes
>nominated. They sell for way under the stud fee it cost to produce
>them.
>
>You have to be careful no matter wheteher you buy a $500 horse or a
>$5000 one. My point was that price is no definite indication of quality
>when it comes to live animals.
>
>tracy
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 20:15:53 -0600
To: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>,
Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: stirrup straightener/adaptor
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980108191050.2649A-100000@consider.theneteff
ect.com>
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The old timers always use a broom handle. They are always available & cheap.
chris paus & star
At 07:12 PM 1/8/98 -0600, Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
>Looking through yet another catalog I got in the mail (does everyone else
>get as many of these as I do? :), I saw Stirrup Straight, an adaptor that
>you stick in the stirrup to turn it out. I remember someone recently was
>looking for these, thought I'd pass along this info:
>
>found in "Country Supply, Inc." catalog, phone 1-800-637-6721
>
>This is NOT an endorsement, as I don't know anyone who's ever tried these.
>
>Glenda & Lakota
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 22:10:22 -0600
From: Ruth Bourgeois <ruthb@tdsi.net>
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To: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: groundwork vs. riding
References: <9801082036.AA01960@cody.unavco> <34B595BD.7ECB@cfw.com>
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Raymond O'Donohue wrote:
> > TeresaVery good points! My guy DID bump sideways into me once-the spook was
> legitimate,tho.He comes up to me,but never crowds me.He does tend to
> urinate in 2 situations-when I go into the barn to feed him,or,when I
> come out of the house to feed him down here. I think this is an
> accidental/coincidental learned response on his part,but read somewhere
> recently that geldings do some territorial urinating in freshly cleaned
> stalls.So I'm fighting fire with fire,just in case! But no,he respects me
> on the ground.Thanks again.
My mare always goes over to the corner of her paddock and pees when she
sees me coming out with her feed. I don't think it has anything to do
with being territorial in her case. She just takes her food very, very
seriously and if she pees first, then she can eat her meals in comfort,
and not have to worry about taking a break and leaving that wonderful
food!
My gelding's a bit slow to follow his big sister's habits, but after
observing her doing this for the past couple years, recently he too
started this. They're so cute, each goes to a different corner and pees,
then they make a hasty dash for their feed buckets and hay feeders! (at
least they get some sort of exercise on these cold winter days!)
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8d62d63c.34b5ac4e@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:49:17 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Is There A Best Breed
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In a message dated 98-01-05 18:45:42 EST, you write:
<< I think any breed of horse can be
successful in competitive riding..The horse should be judged as an
individual not as a breed. >>
To a point. I think if you have a Clydesdale, for instance, who is competing
successfully in endurance, maybe this horse doesn't belong in his breeds
registry. He is WAY off type.
Trish & "pretty David."
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <75f0203c.34b5ac53@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:49:22 EST
To: rayo@cfw.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Groundwork vs. Riding
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In a message dated 98-01-06 23:35:23 EST, you write:
<< . The current orthodoxy seems to be that all
under saddle behaviour troubles are groundwork and/or pecking order
problems.My horse is an angel in hand,he follows me around like a dog,and
he is responding quickly and with enthusiasm to my novice attempts at
groundwork.I'm going to do the groundwork and see how things go-it's
fun.But I must say I'm not optimistic that it'll have any effect under
saddle.I believe the solution,if it is found,will occur under
saddle. >>
I too, will be waiting breathlessly for these answers, as I've similar
problems with my horse David--he is a big labrador retriever when worked from
the ground. I can't correct him from groundwork because he rarely does
anything wrong. It is only after I am on his back that things can get hairy.
Trish & "pretty David"
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From: Kim Fue <KimFue@aol.com>
Message-ID: <12ac67d2.34b5bb70@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 00:53:51 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: RE: Next endurance prospects
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Picking an endurance prospect is like playing odds. It's kind of like
that line in one of the Dirty Harry movies "Do you feel lucky?"
You can take a chance on a "freebie" or close to it and maybe you'll be
lucky and end with a super endurance horse (it's a bit like playing the Lotto
in California - for the last 10 years, twice a week, winning numbers are
drawn for 3 million
dollars + ... unfortunately, it has never my numbers, my husband's numbers or
my friend's numbers) . You also can try to stack the odds in your favor by
paying a higher price for a prospect that is well bred for endurance or has
perfect conformation or is an exceptional mover... Unfortunately, sometimes,
even when you think you have found the perfect horse and he passes the vet
check with flying colors and his xrays and ultrasounds are clean - you may end
up with a perfect "non competitor" regardless of how careful and meticulous
you have been in your search. Many metabolic problems like thumps and chronic
tying up don't show up until you have invested a lot of time, money and
emotional energy in a prospect - only to find out that he is unsuitable for
endurance (or the level of endurance you want to ride at). Then there is the
other scenario - the horse that seems like the perfect prospect but doesn't
have the temperment or "heart" to be a distance horse (you know, the 100 mile
prospect you bought that decides that 25 miles is as far as he's going to go
today or any day...or that "hot" Arabian gelding who thinks he can gallop 100
miles and never learns to settle down or pace himself; who never has and
never will make it past the 30 mile check because of "burn out".)
This is not meant to be a downer just reality. I have been really lucky
(successful) with my "Freebee" horse and I have also been lucky (successful)
with horses that I have bought that were bred for endurance and were much more
expensive BUT I have bought and know many people that have bought "perfect
endurance prospects" that have just not worked out in distance racing. It can
be very disappointing and very expensive both financially and emotionally.
I think two of the most important things to think about when you are
looking at a prospect (whether he is free or $5,000) is what are you going to
do with him if he doesn't work out and how much time, energy and money are you
willing to "GAMBLE" to see if he does turn into your "one in a million". A
good endurance friend keeps reminding me of her favorite line "No
Guarantees!!" a quote that seems to be so true in this sport.
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id rma013310; Fri Jan 9 00:14:27 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: pony prices
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
My $600. horse was bought to be saved from slaughter, and may never be
a wonderful endurance horse. But he is already a great trail horse and
a good friend.
I've spent too much money to count on Mystery and I don't know if I
would ever buy an unbroke 5 year old again. But I don't add up the
money, because it is spent on living, and I've only one life to enjoy
that I know of. I've enjoyed training and riding him and will spend
tens of thousands more on him if he lives to be very old, and with no
regret. I can't imagine my life without a horse anymore...
Training, experience, conformation, attitude...you can only judge a
fair price on theses when you know what level of each you desire. Are
endurance rides the only thing you want to do with that horse? Or is
it just one thing out of many? Do you want to achieve it quickly,
where someone else has given you a head start (training, maturity). Or
take full credit (and take the full amount of time)?
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab..around 300# heavier than when he came to
me). "I'll never starve again, and remember, no roofs over my head"
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id rma017598; Fri Jan 9 00:18:19 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: suspensories
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
One of the vets showed me how to check for pain here and I thought the
important factor was if the horse showed a pronounced different
reaction from one leg to the other, indicating one leg is more tender
then the other, than something was amiss. I didn't think the same
reaction to both legs would count very much, unless of course it is
obvious pain. The important thing is to know the horses normal
reactions to these types of manipulations so you can tell when
something is amiss. Right?
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab.."what are you doing to my leg? ")
Pt.Reyes, Ca
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From: Kim Fue <KimFue@aol.com>
Message-ID: <de342258.34b5c280@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 01:24:00 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
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Picking an endurance prospect is like playing odds. It's kind of like
that line in one of the Dirty Harry movies "Do you feel lucky?" I think two
of the most important things to think about when you are looking at a prospect
(whether he is free or $5,000) is what are you going to do with him if he
doesn't work out and how much of your time, emotions, energy and money are you
willing to "GAMBLE" to see if he does turn into your "one in a million". A
good endurance friend keeps reminding me of her favorite line "No
Guarantees!!" a quote that seems to be so true in this sport.
You can take a chance on a "freebie" or close to it and maybe you'll be
lucky and end with a super endurance horse (it's a bit like playing the Lotto
in California - for the last 10 years, twice a week, winning numbers are
drawn for 3 million
dollars + ... unfortunately, it has never been my numbers, my husband's
numbers or my friend's numbers) . You also can try to stack the odds in your
favor by paying a higher price for a prospect that is well bred for endurance
or has perfect conformation or is an exceptional mover... Unfortunately,
sometimes, even when you think you have found the perfect horse and he passes
the pre purchase check with flying colors and his xrays and ultrasounds are
clean - you may end up with a perfect "non competitor" regardless of how
careful and meticulous you have been in your search. Many metabolic problems
like thumps and chronic tying up don't show up until you have invested a lot
of time, money and emotional energy in a prospect - only to find out that he
is unsuitable for endurance (or the level of endurance you want to ride at).
Then there is the other scenario - the horse that seems like the perfect
prospect but doesn't have the temperment or "heart" to be a distance horse
(you know, the 100 mile prospect you bought that decides that 25 miles is as
far as he's going to go today or any day...or that "hot" Arabian gelding who
thinks he can gallop 100 miles and never learns to settle down or pace
himself; who never has and never will make it past the 30 mile check because
of "burn out".)
This is not meant to be a downer just reality. I have been really lucky
(successful) with my "Freebee" horse and I have also been lucky (successful)
with horses that I have bought that were bred for endurance and were much more
expensive BUT I have bought and know many people that have bought "perfect
endurance prospects" that have just not worked out in distance racing.
As this sport becomes more technical and exacting, as reflected by some
of the recent posts on nutrition, training and the latest in high tech tack
it's easy to forget how sometimes luck or fate can play a big part in our
success or disappointment in endurance riding, especially in picking a good
prospect.
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 17:52:25 +1100
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Luke Steele <luke.steele@fujitsu.com.au>
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Mime-Version: 1.0
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To harden my horses feet, I use stones and rocks.
I moved from a wet region to a drier place with well-drained, rocky paddocks.
We train over stony and rocky terrain.
The fact that we have had well below our average rainfall for 13 of the
past 16 months has contributed to *very* hard feet!
Gradually introducing training over stony tracks will toughen your horse's
feet naturally, however, with Nikita's flat, shelly feet I found the use of
Shocktamer Rim Pads also helped her through two intensive years of
competition.
Regards,
Luke
steelela@hotmail.com -or-
horseman@hotkey.net.au
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/7483/
Luke and Nikita and Sarah and Shadrach
Riddells Creek, Victoria, Australia
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Received: (from benamil@juno.com)
by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id HSP24576; Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:20:23 EST
To: Debbyly@aol.com
Cc: trc@gte.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:22:14 EST
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
Message-ID: <19980109.082215.3998.0.benamil@juno.com>
References: <8c95494b.34b51732@aol.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,12-13,28-29,35-36,40-74
From: benamil@juno.com (David Bennett)
Guess I have to speak out on this one. I have done it both ways...
My first endurance horse (not my first horse by a long shot) was a
bargain at less than $1000. He is a full Egyptian, retired sound from
the track. Former owner bought him for big money but then was afraid "he
would run away". So, he was a pasture ornament for 3 or 4 years. I
think that I was extremely lucky to get such a nice, sound, very
manageable horse that loves to go for such a small price. Nothing wrong
with him except the person who had owned him. Six years later he is
still sound and doing 50's with consistent good finishes. I could afford
to lose him financially but would be terribly unhappy if something did
happen to him. To me he is much more valuable than what he would bring
in a sale....
My new youngster was bred to be a distance horse with parents that were
themselves successful endurance horses. He had ground training and some
arena work before I got him and was very manageable. But, he had no
riding on the trail at all. I paid more than I am willing to admit to
anyone except the insurance agent who wrote my policy on him. Yet, I
know about what it cost to get him to the point where I bought him. I
think that he is worth every bit of what he cost me and then some. I
also know that I would not have him if I had been unwilling to pay a fair
price for him. Could I have gotten another at a low price like my
first endurance horse? Possibly - but there was the risk of going
through several horses before I found a 'keeper'. Do that more than once
and all that I saved would be more than lost. In the meantime, I ain't
getting any younger! Even including the purchase price, the average cost
per year of ownership should be only a little more than with one bought
at a lower price.
I am not especially wealthy. To handle the financial risk, I simply
insured him for enough to cover me if he were to do the proverbial "break
a leg". Insurance is cheap yet does just what it is intended to do -
make the risk of owning a more costly horse tolerable. One can insure a
horse worth thousands for only a little more than the cost of one or two
visits by the farrier.
As some others have pointed out, price alone does not guarantee that one
will end up with a successful endurance horse. There are too many
variables. But, it doesn't hurt to shop around and stack the odds in
your favor as much as you can.
Just my opinion...
Dave Bennett
Chickamauga, Georgia
On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:13:05 EST Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com> writes:
>I have been reading all these postings bragging about bargain horses.
>Your
>message about paying what a horse is worth encouraged me to add my
>opinion.
>Good breeders can only continue breeding programs specifically for
>endurance
>horses if endurance riders are willing to pay for good endurance
>prospects.
>Three years ago I purchased a two year old gelding from Bellesemo
>Arabians.
>He is now five and starting to do endurance. I think he is going to
>be
>wonderful. I paid more for him than I would have for a backyard
>horse, but in
>the long run the difference is minimal. The purchase price is often
>the least
>of the expenses involved with owning a horse. I hope that more
>endurance
>riders will turn to reputable breeders when looking for a prospect so
>that
>breeding programs can continue. Sometimes bargain hunting can be
>shortsighted.
>
>Debby
>
>
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Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Message-ID: <19980109.182620.12334.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:32:21 EST
On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:05:45 -0800 (PST) guest@endurance.net writes:
>
>
>
>From: Barb Peck
>Email: bpeck@us.ibm.com
>
>Barb,
I don't know about the commercial hardners you mentioned, but my vet
suggested that I paint the sole of my horse's hoof with formalehyde when
I removed a pad he had worn for a while. He said this would harden the
sole.
I guess I figured if it would work for that, it would be good to toughen
him up in general. (Kaboot has slightly flat feet). As a matter of
fact, Roger Rittenhouse told me that lots of CT riders use it.
The bottom line is, I started putting it on his soles regularly (Maybe
once every week or two) and his hooves started crumbling around the
clinches. I didn't realize what was going on until I noticed how
terribly my hands would dry out after applying it, even though I did not
touch it. Just the fumes would suck the moisture out of anything.
Just in case anyone recommends formaldehyde, make sure you only get it on
the sole, and don't do it very often. By the way, it will really harden
the sole.
Angie McGhee
>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:37:03 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Next endurance prospects
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Reading this thread with interest. My veterinarian who is also
a good friend of mine is currently doing a research project
involving wormers. She has 80 head of horses she bought
through various sales. Some friends and I go out and ride
them to determine which ones are worth selling and where they
stand in training. She has 5 pure arabs out there and several
crosses. Of course I ride the arabs and am actually looking and
one a maybe my next endurance horse, he's a little gelding, 6 years
old. You never know, what was some peoples garbage may be your
diamond. (hopefully)! All these horses where bought really
cheap at various backyard auctions, so I figure I can't go
wrong by getting him. We'll see. Julie
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Rides2far: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Message-ID: <19980109.183920.12334.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 08:45:04 EST
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: Rides2far
To: bpeck@us.ibm.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:32:04 PST
Message-ID: <19980109.182620.12334.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com>
On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:05:45 -0800 (PST) guest@endurance.net writes:
>
>
>
>From: Barb Peck
>Email: bpeck@us.ibm.com
>
>Barb,
I don't know about the commercial hardeners you mentioned, but my vet
suggested that I paint the sole of my horse's hoof with formaldehyde when
I removed a pad he had worn for a while. He said this would harden the
sole.
I guess I figured if it would work for that, it would be good to toughen
him up in general. (Kaboot has slightly flat feet). As a matter of
fact, Roger Rittenhouse told me that lots of CT riders use it.
The bottom line is, I started putting it on his soles regularly (Maybe
once every week or two) and his hooves started crumbling around the
clinches. I didn't realize what was going on until I noticed how
terribly my hands would dry out after applying it, even though I did not
touch it. Just the fumes would suck the moisture out of anything.
Just in case anyone recommends formaldehyde, make sure you only get it on
the sole, and don't do it very often. By the way, it will really harden
the sole.
Angie McGhee
>
--------- End forwarded message ----------
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From: Petdoc6 <Petdoc6@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:08:21 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: 5-speed transmission??
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I have the opportunity to purchase a 96 diesel Chevie that is big enough to
solve my overload problems when pulling a gooseneck. Are there any problems
associated with a 5-speed vs and automatic?
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From: "Sally Aungier"<aungish@unos.org>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Message-ID: <85256587.004C3777.00@GWIP01.unos.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:13:11 -0500
Subject: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
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Sally Aungier
01/09/98 09:13 AM
The best horse I have ever owned is my 29, soon to be 30 year old, TB mare
who I bought as a yearling for $100. She continues to be reasonably sound
and happy (when she gets to go out for a little ride now and then). My
parents always laugh about how I've gotten my monies worth out of her. The
poor old girl must have a million miles on her as I used to ride 4-6 hours
a day during her prime. During our years together we've done distance
work, driving, hunting, etc.
I also bought a TB mare for $400 that I trained and she has been successful
on the both the hunter and jumper circuit- she had no desire to be my next
trail horse though. Her current owner has outgrown her and I think the
price tag is over $10,000.
I also had a well bred arab that was given to me by his owner when he lost
interest in riding. I got him back and shape and sold him to my best
friend who has been doing ECTRA CTR's with him ever since. He is a
lovely horse but his walk killed my back - someone once described it as a
cross between a llama and a camel.
I have a friend who makes a point of going to the killer sales and buying
horses that she thinks that she can rehab. I can't even begin to tell you
the number of lovely horses she has saved who have gone on to successful
careers.
I guess it's just a matter of being able the judge the potential of any
horse, regardless of its breeding, and having what it takes to train it.
Also, I think that I bond differently (better) with a horse that I've
trained rather than one that comes to me knowing it all. There is a
different level to our partnership that is more satisfying.
Sally
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From: "John & Sue Greenall" <greenall@vermontel.com>
Organization: Thorny Hills Farms
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:43:34 -500
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Does anyone know if these gadgets will work on an orthoflex type
"leather". It would make my husband sooooo happy.
John and Sue Greenall
mailto:greenall@vermontel.com
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:55:40 -0500
From: George deLong <71234.3361@compuserve.com>
Subject: next endurance prospects
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A few years ago Ted Jeary (Hyannis Cattle Company of Hyannis horses Fame)
wrote an articel fro the Southwest Distance Ride Association Gazette. It
was a humorous piece based on his lifetime (fifty years) of breeding
arabian horses. The title was "How to make a million dollars in arabian
horses". Thge puch line, after some very interesting and humorous life
expereinces and true stories was "start with two million"
I have bred several horses here at home and had pretty good luck. the goal
has been to participate in the cycle of life and the pleasure of raisin g
the foals. One or two have broken even, but it has never been the money
maker that everyone hopes for. why keep doing it, and why do wo many
others? There just aint nothing else like it.
there probably wont be a shortage of good horses, as there are too many
foks out there that just love doing it to stop, and eventually we have to
sell some to make room for the next crop. You never mind giving them away
if they are going to have a good home and there is hope for a happy life.
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:55:36 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
References: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com> <19980109.182620.12334.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Angela C. McGhee wrote:
> Just in case anyone recommends formaldehyde, make sure you only get it on
> the sole, and don't do it very often. By the way, it will really harden
> the sole.
>
Just curious, where do you buy formaldehyde?
tracy
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: Petdoc6@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 5-speed transmission??
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:11:10 PST
>From: Petdoc6 <Petdoc6@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 09:08:21 EST
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: 5-speed transmission??
>
>I have the opportunity to purchase a 96 diesel Chevie that is big
enough to
>solve my overload problems when pulling a gooseneck. Are there any
problems
>associated with a 5-speed vs and automatic?
>
>
Yes, stay away from the 5-speed in the GM products. I have a '93 GMC
diesel and was highly discouraged from buying the 5-speed, by the
dealer. Back in the '93 they were problems. I'm only talking GM
products here. I thought I'd never want an automatic to haul with but I
like it better than any tranny I've had. GM's 401 tranny is the same
one they use in the big public transport buses here. My transmission
specialist says they are the best one there is for the job.
If you do get a 5-speed GM. Make sure you have a really super duper
heavy duty clutch. Plus make sure the reverse gear is low enough that
you can back-up slowly without having to burn your clutch. When I had
my old GMC I had to put in a new clutch every year, because the reverse
gear liked to move at 5+ mph. I can't back my trailer that fast, so
would have to burn the clutch every time I parked it.
Just some things to look into.
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3926f99d.34b63f09@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:15:20 EST
To: PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: pony prices
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In a message dated 98-01-09 01:17:33 EST, you write:
<< I've spent too much money to count on Mystery and I don't know if I
would ever buy an unbroke 5 year old again. >>
I feel EXACTLY the same way about my David (only he was a basically unbroke 3
year old). I love him, and in the end I'm sure it will all be worth it, but
it is a lot of time, a lot of money,--and as often as not, my blood pressure
still cranks up a notch or two everytime I decide to ride him. I look forward
to the day I can go saddle David with the same sense of security and emotional
comfort I have when I saddle my faithful old gelding Tash.
Trish & "pretty David"
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f412d49d.34b63f02@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:15:13 EST
To: fourhorn@fea.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dry Feet
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In a message dated 98-01-08 23:44:16 EST, you write:
<< Anybody have any good tips for keeping your feet dry while riding in the
rain?
Lauren
who is thinking of tieing baggies around my feet ;-) >>
Dear Lauren, I save the plastic tube like bags my newspaper is delivered in,
and use these. Looks rediculous, but works pretty good!
Trish & "pretty David" here in wet, wet Michigan
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c089121d.34b63f04@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:15:15 EST
To: paus@micoks.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
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In a message dated 98-01-08 23:51:13 EST, you write:
<< ....you can pick up some of the most well known
>bloodlines for *under* $1000! Lots of them are even sweepstakes
>nominated. They sell for way under the stud fee it cost to produce
>them.
>
>You have to be careful no matter wheteher you buy a $500 horse or a
>$5000 one. My point was that price is no definite indication of quality
>when it comes to live animals. >>
All truth! My David has as good of bloodlines as you'd care to
see--Aramus,Naborr, El Paso, Melon, Celebes, Czort--just to drop a few names
from his pedigree. He cost me $1200! The second point Tracy made is very
important!!! You are buying an endurance horse--not a pedigree. As anyone who
has followed my posts for a while on this list knows, I knew very little about
Arab bloodlines when I was looking for a horse. I did know a fair bit more
about conformation, and approved David's build before I ever even looked at
his papers.
Trish & "pretty David"
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <53256e9d.34b63efe@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:15:10 EST
To: paus@micoks.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Yosemite--Old Age, Alas! The Cavalry to the Rescue!
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In a message dated 98-01-08 20:59:30 EST, you write:
<< trail was originally cut by horse people (with permission). Then a new
range came ont he scene and decided she wanted that trail just for hikers
and mountain bikes.
My training buddy and I rode that trail dozens of times this summer and
NEVER saw a mountain bike, and saw walkers only once. And they were
thrilled to see and pet our horses. It's the pits >>
They have closed some local trails near me to riders as of last summer as
well. I only found out about it recently, as I haven't used those particular
trails lately. The DNR (Dept. of Natural Resource)'s excuse: area horseman
already have nice horse trails in Hadley, they don't need them in Holly too.
Though I have seen hikers on these trails, they have never seemed to mind the
horses! I'm not one to just shrug my shoulders and say, "oh well," however,
and am going to check out the options on getting these trails re-opened to
horses.
Trish & "pretty David"
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:20:05 PST
>From: "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net>
>To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: Next endurance prospects
>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:46:00 -0600
>
> I did not see one message regarding paying the price a horse is
worth.
> If we are not willing to pay what a horse is worth, who is going
to
>keep breeding top horses?>
Hi Shelly,
Unfortunately, the show-ring dictates the price in the Arabian Market.
Fortunately, for those who want to "use" a horse for work. The
show-bred cast-offs often are very useable horses. They have larger
bone and better coups (deeper hip, less-flat). We will always be able
to obtain these cast-offs really cheap because those "trendy" breeders
don't want them cluttering up their farms.
Personally, I'd rather have a horse well bred for endurance. That is,
one with lot's of the same lines of the proven champions. However,
those can be bought very cheap also.
> I do not have a problem paying top dollar for a well bred horse
that
>a professional breeder has spent time, money, energy, and heart
breeding.>
Depends on what the "professional breeder" is breading for, good blood,
or "show-ring style".
>If it costs $1200 a year to raise a horse, Why aren't we willing to
spend
>what the horse cost to raise??>
> If we are not willing to spend the money for these horses, the
>breeders are not going to have the devotion to breed good horses.
> I, too, have purchased horses for $500, those horses needed
someone
>who was an excellent rider, and had the time a patience to correct
someone
>elses mistakes. Those horses are rare and I usally spent 2 years
getting
>the horse to where it could do a 50 mile ride in a decent state. (I
also
>ended up putting at least $2500 into the horse before I did my first
50.)>
> I
>also bought $500 horses that were $100 horses and I waisted alot of
time
>and energy on a useless horse!!!
Yes, and you'll also put $2500 into a $5,000 horse. So, it makes sense
to start cheaper. I've seen the pricier ones be useless too. In either
case, you have to select carefully.
> If we, as a group, are not willing to pay for these horses who
will
>be breeding are next endurance prosects????>
People will always be looking for the best deal. Be it "professional
breeder" cast-offs or back yard horses that people just want to get rid
of.
My guess is, there will always be fools, like me, who will spend the
time and $ to breed excellent horses and then turn around and "give them
away".
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: "Sally Aungier"<aungish@unos.org>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Message-ID: <85256587.005328FD.00@GWIP01.unos.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:26:06 -0500
Subject: Attention: Virginia riders-Trail News
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Sally Aungier
01/09/98 10:26 AM
Late Breaking News!
I just received word last night that our RC&D Trails Committee has
completed its on site review of Fort Pickett (in Blackstone) as a potential
site for horse trails. Thanks to a very cooperative CO and his staff at
Pickett, work will begin immediately on marking four existing trails on the
40,000 acre tract. If all goes well, trails will open for use later this
spring. They will charge a small admission fee of $2-5 to riders.
Overnight facilities will be available. The only down side of this
arrangement is that riders will be asked to check in 24 hours before
arriving to ensure that the base is open for riding on that day. There
will be days when the National Guard is there doing maneuvers and they will
not allow riding.
If you are interested in receiving more information about this trail when
it is ready, email me privately and I will put you on my list.
This trail will join the others we have successfully negotiated with the
state parks in Region 10 (mid-south part of the state). We now have trails
at Bear Creek State Park, James River State Park, Holiday Lake, Staunton
River Park and have other shorter trails which will be coming on board in
the next year. So far, we are finding these to be excellent places to
condition. I already have my eye on Bear Creek as a site for a 25 mile
CTR. Maybe next year I'll be ready to put on another ride <VBG>.
A brochure highlighting these trails is in the works and will be available
for distribution later this spring.
Let me know if your have any questions.
Sally Aungier
Powhatan, VA
aungish@unos.org
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 07:28:35 -0800
Subject: More Arnica
Message-ID: <19980109.072837.4966.0.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Okay, I can't use it before or during. What's the dosage for after?
How long of a treatment?
Kris
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c8595ead.34b646b6@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:48:04 EST
To: KimFue@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
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Kim Fue makes a good point that there aren't any guarantees when buying
horses. However, I have to comment on some of her statements regarding buying
the horse that seems like the perfect candidate--the traits she listed were
all PHYSICAL traits that can be determined by a good eye and a thorough exam
with ultrasound and x-ray. She goes on to discuss those all-too-common
situations where one puts in months and months of work only to discover that a
horse is metabolically inadequate (for whatever reason) or does not have the
temperament. These aspects are just as heritable as good legs and strong
bodies; these parts of your endurance prospect you can only predict by
studying the horses to whom he is related. Many metabolic strengths and
weaknesses DO tend to run in family lines. The very lines that the show
people say "oooh-la-la" over are NOT NECESSARILY the ones that excel in our
sport! Once again, that is why it often pays to buy from someone who is
breeding specifically for the sport or for related lines. Incidentally, many
of us are small breeders and may not have what you want, but we also know
where the "deals" are down the road--we keep track of those sorts of things
because we like to see good horses matched up with good owners. You often
don't pay all that much more for a horse that will significantly increase your
odds of success--whether your goal is riding or racing. I will reiterate what
I said in an earlier post--you don't save anything by paying half as much for
a horse, only to be faced with higher vet bills, chiropractor bills, saddle
fit hassles, etc., and then have to turn around and replace the horse in two
years anyway. Sure, you may save some time and money in travel and entry fees
in the rides you don't get to go to while your horse is laid up. By all means
hunt for the bargains, but KNOW what you are looking for, both in conformation
and breeding--be an educated buyer! But don't forget to shop with the
endurance breeder--you may be surprised at the horses you find for reasonable
prices, the advice you can get, etc. I can't speak for all of us, but I know
many of us like to see our horses in capable hands and are often willing to
accept terms and payments. Sure, it is always a gamble, but it is as much
different as buying blue chip stocks vs. playing slots in Vegas.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:11:55 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: iggy <polstar@ll.net>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
Hi who ever you are?
I would like to respond to you. Unless I know who you are and if you are a
horse owner or owner AND breeder. Other than saying: I completely think
you are off base thinking 200. horses will jeopardize Endurance
competition.
The point is You don't need a 4,000. + dollar horse to compete (and compete
well.) Price of horses should never discourage an individual from thinking
a 200 horse can not compete. Horse breeders can take care of them
selves.......
Woops I commented (*The 500.00 horse. It wasn't the price that was bad,
it was the choise of horses)IMHO no offence meant........
Sigrid
> I did not see one message regarding paying the price a horse is worth.
> If we are not willing to pay what a horse is worth, who is going to
>keep breeding top horses?
> I do not have a problem paying top dollar for a well bred horse that
>a professional breeder has spent time, money, energy, and heart breeding.
>If it costs $1200 a year to raise a horse, Why aren't we willing to spend
>what the horse cost to raise??
> If we are not willing to spend the money for these horses, the
>breeders are not going to have the devotion to breed good horses.
> I, too, have purchased horses for $500, those horses needed someone
>who was an excellent rider, and had the time a patience to correct someone
>elses mistakes. Those horses are rare and I usally spent 2 years getting
>the horse to where it could do a 50 mile ride in a decent state. (I also
>ended up putting at least $2500 into the horse before I did my first 50.) I
>also bought $500 horses that were $100 horses and I waisted alot of time
>and energy on a useless horse!!!
> If we, as a group, are not willing to pay for these horses who will
>be breeding are next endurance prosects????
The Space Cadet
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:30:33 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
You can get some bargins in FL on all horses - not just Arabs. There seems
to be a large supply down here. From what I have seen a lot of the bargin
horses are bargins as a result of attitude more than anything else. I have
seen several horses picked up for a song because the owner couldn't handle
the horse. The horse was too hot, wanted to go on down the trail instead
of enjoy a good walking trail ride, wouldn't settle down in the ring, etc.
These horses had the type of attitude and drive you like (at least I like
<G>) in an endurance horse, It just needs to be directed. In the right
hands they made very good horses. Several have been resold for big bucks as
made endurance horses. It may have taken an extra year to get the horse
settled into the routine, but an extra year of LSD never hurt any horse.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d42b1ba3.34b64efa@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:23:21 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Rain Rain go away
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Anyone know what teh weather AND freeways are like from L.A. to Warner
Springs? Just wondering. It is raining lightly here in Agoura. See you there!
sandy
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:23:21 -0800
Subject: NEW MEXICO RENEGADE RIDE
Message-ID: <19980109.102327.2886.3.renegade12@juno.com>
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From: renegade12@juno.com (Randy H Eiland)
If you are interested in entering the NM RENEGADE 5 DAYS - 285 MILE Multi
Day Ride March 16 - 20, please contact me at:
e'mail - renegade12@juno.com or call 915-833-8940 (h) or 915-533-8826
(o)
The deadline for pre entry discount is February 1. I will have entries
at the
El Paso-Las Cruces endurance rides.
Randy Eiland
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <52989349.34b6605a@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:37:29 EST
To: zebella@idt.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
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Tracy--
Your vet may have some bulk formaldehyde in the back room for preparing tissue
specimens for pathology samples. If not, he or she can probably order it for
you. You can also get it from chemical supply houses.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Looking for your endurance horse of the future?
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:01:40 -0700
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Come visit our website at www.blackbeararabians.com
We have a small, performance-oriented breeding operation and produce small
numbers of sweepstakes-nominated equine athletes each year. Our stallion
and all broodmares have active endurance careers and our output are moving
machines! What truly sets our horses apart, however, is extensive handling
from birth and the quiet, willing minds that result. Doesn't it make sense
that animals that enter competition with no fear will save their energy for
the PHYSICAL challenge and not waste it before the start and during each
Vet check? We believe that this will make the difference for you between a
good competitor and a truly great one. You WILL find cheaper prices, you
MAY find equivalent conformation, but you WILL NOT find a safer, more
sensible equine companion! Mary Burgess
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:05:17 -0700
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Dear Friends!
Your local phone company has begun a campaign to get the FCC to Okay
per-minute charges for e-mail usage. Needless to say, e-mail is one of the
only remaining "values" for us small folk!!! The FCC has created an e-mail
address to hear your voice:
isp@fcc.gov
And they will make their decision by 2/13/98. This is IMPORTANT!!! Tell
them what you think!!! Happy Trails, Mary Burgess
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To: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
From: ponies@foothills.eznet.com (Patricia O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: Paso Finos
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Dear Janice,
People tell me it's even worse, being behind The Roan on mud or gravel. It
has been suggested that we be banned from muddy rides until we come prepared
with mud-flaps! ;^D
The Paso gait is very comfortable, even for long distances. My back and
hips don't hurt like they do when riding a trotting horse for only a short
(20 minute?) ride. That doesn't hamper my ability to enjoy the beauty and
athleticism of a trotting horse strutting his stuff in the ring or on the
trail, though, and I have met more than one awesome TWH and Foxtrotter, too.
It's nice to be able to enjoy the beauty of all the breeds that compete in
our sport. I think that the very best breed of all is the one sitting right
in your own stable, that nickers when he sees you coming with the bridle,
and in whose company you lose the cares and pressures of the world.
Happy Trails,
Patty and The Roan (you should see how far I can fling snow-balls when I get
in high gear...)
>
>who where happily churning up the dust into my and my horse's face for at
>least a half mile. I finally had to pull my tee shirt up over my nose.
>What a hoot! You can bet I worked hard to stay in front of them for the
>remainder of the ride. I don't remember how they placed, but I'm sure they
>had as much fun as I did. And don't discount the gaited horses. I have a
>friend who rode a TWH on many a CTR and placed exceptionally well. She
>enjoyed the ride too. Speaking of which, don't you guys get sore from the
>shuffleing of the seat bones in constant contact with the saddle?
>
>Jan, who likes a little air under her as she proceeds.
>
>
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To: guest@endurance.net
From: ponies@foothills.eznet.com (Patricia O'Rourke)
Subject: Re: Paso Fino
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Dear Debby,
You might want to contact Barbara Preiss if you still live on the East
Coast. She owned Coral LaCE and has bred several horses of that line that
can go like a blue streak, and stay sound, too. She is one of the breeders
rebelling against the show-ring trend and attempting to maintain the
character of the Paso as a smooth-gaited and elegant athlete.
Her address is
La Caballeriza
14450 SE 175th Street
Weirsdale, FL 32195
(904) 821-1300
>Sorry, didn't mean to open up a subject and get so many people upset. I'd
ridden Paso's back in Georgia several years ago, thought and still think I'd
love to have one someday and wondered how they'd do for endurance, I'm also
interested in competitive but for the most part just want to have fun and be
safe. The Paso's I rode were not "showy" and had very good hooves and legs,
think they were very trail hardy. Thanks for all of your positive feedback
and remember this forum is for everyone to state his/her opionion in a
constructive manner.
>Hope to see you'all out on the trails someday. Thanks, Debby
>
>
>
Patty and the Rainbow Pasos
Rainbow Paso Fino Ranch
Clayton, WA 99110
Standing Coral's Palomilo de Vez
breeding stock carrying the bloodlines of Favorito Que Tal, Coral LaCE,
Pincel and Sonador.
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:08:37 -0800
To: zebella@idt.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jane Sheppard <jane@deltanet.com>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
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I only have a couple of unbroke babies in the back yard with Meggie as my
next endurance prospects. Also looking at some (untried in endurance) welsh
ponies for the fun of it. If I find one with the attitude I like we may
have a new partnership on the trail. Meggie is going to be so mad at me.
Jane
Visit The Tevis Pony Web Page: http://users.deltanet.com/~jane
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Date: 09 Jan 98 13:45:46 EST
From: Carol.Boardman@Dartmouth.EDU (Carol Boardman)
Subject: Re: groundwork vs. riding
To: ruthb@tdsi.net, rayo@cfw.com ("Raymond O'Donohue")
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
I had to chuckle at this picture because it fits so well with my 4 horses.
Every morning when I walk into the barn to feed, it takes about 15 seconds for
the place to sound like Niagara Falls! Everyone of them walks to their special
part of their stall and let's loose. Sure wish they would learn to "hold it"
until they get outdoors.
Carol in Vermont with the 4 floor flushers
--- Ruth Bourgeois wrote:
My mare always goes over to the corner of her paddock and pees when she
sees me coming out with her feed. I don't think it has anything to do
with being territorial in her case
--- end of quoted material ---
ner.Dartmouth.EDU (donner.dartmouth.edu [129.170.208.3])
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Date: 09 Jan 98 13:45:46 EST
From: Carol.Boardman@Dartmouth.EDU (Carol Boardman)
Subject: Re: grou5394 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002616 06455472571 0013132 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@pop3.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04918 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:07:32 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34B671EC.1D9D@foothill.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 10:52:28 -0800
From: Nat & Richard <trailride@foothill.net>
Organization: Natalie's Barn & Breakfast
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To: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
CC: paus@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Yosemite--Old Age, Alas! The Cavalry to the Rescue!
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You might consider going for half-a-loaf and get at least some of the
access back on those trails you mention: See if the ranger will go for
a time-share arrangement, where half the week the trail is reserved for
hikers and bikers, the rest for horses.
With that foot in the door, you can then push for a bigger share if you
are using your half more than the hikers/bikers are using theirs.
Good luck /richard
--
Natalie's Barn & Breakfast -- a B&B for horses ...and their riders
Visit us at http://www.foothill.net/natalies (530) 637-4644
Also, the OFFICIAL TEVIS SITE, http://www.foothill.net/tevis
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:28:07 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: iggy <polstar@ll.net>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
Dear Sandy
Where are you going with this? Sorry you were offended, it was not ment in
that spirit? This is a discussion of encouraging people to compete in
endurance events at what ever level they can, even with a low cost horse.
and what I though was a funny story. I don't care what any one pays for a
horse. Where is the threat?
Cost does not NECESSARILY mean quality and performance There is NO
argument on this . This is a friendly discussion about diamonds in the
rough (It ain't that heavy)
Just neat stories about nice horses, nice people saying"I didn't spend a
lot for my horse, we do quite well"
If the horse you want is 5000. go for it. If your dream horse happens to
only be 300. go for it.
As far as the comment on Horse breeders (It was a compliment) Most breeders
we know are capable in there field and are not dependent on the support of
any group of people. There business dealings and breeding programs create
the demand and success of there Breeding farms....... I was responding to
the person referring to "we as a group" comment.
Got to go, Have a nice day
Sigrid
*******************************************************************************>
>
>>>In a message dated 98-01-09 12:34:47 EST, you write:
>>>
>>><< The point is You don't need a 4,000. + dollar horse to compete (and
>>>compete
>>> well.) Price of horses should never discourage an individual from thinking
>>> a 200 horse can not compete. Horse breeders can take care of them
>>> selves.......
>>> >>
>>>I am srtuggling with the import of this paragraph. Can someone help me? I
>>>THINK she means don't worry about the breeders. If so, FINE. However, there
>>>are a number of us who eventually include (or perhaps along with distance)
>>>breeding, showing and other competition that require certain qualities not
>>>usually found in the $500 horse. For example, all those $500 yearling and 2
>>>year old halter champ babies - I have seen many and riden a few and
>>>considered
>>>a couple. None were suited to the wide variety of activities we use our
>>>horses
>>>for. And so, $3-5000 is what we expect to pay for a horse of expansive
>>>quality
>>>and potential, never mind proven ability. We don't consider halter
>>>ability or
>>>quality or potential. And so most bargain horses just don't suit us. IT just
>>>depends upon what your longterm expectations are for your horse and
>>>yourself.
>>>Perhaps the best hrose I ever had is still with me - our 23 year old
>>>mare, who
>>>is getting ready for the trip down to a 25 miler. She has gone western,
>>>hunt,
>>>show hack, dressage, parade, driving, penning, and endurance. Oh yes,
>>>and top
>>>5 in halter in her youth! This was a $4000 18 years ago! A big price?
>>>Certainly! Unproven? Yes indeed! Potential? Obviously. A LOT of work? Which
>>>horses aren't. But she wasn't cheap. She IS worth every penny. And so am I
>>>glad I didn't wait around for teh bargain girl? Yes indeed! Wish us luck! I
>>>HATE to be wet!
>>>sandy
>>
>>
>>
>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 12:21:02 -0800
From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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To: Endurance list <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: hoof hardeners
References: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com> <19980109.182620.12334.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Angela C. McGhee wrote:
> The bottom line is, I started putting it on his soles regularly (Maybe
> once every week or two) and his hooves started crumbling around the
> clinches. I didn't realize what was going on until I noticed how
> terribly my hands would dry out after applying it, even though I did not
> touch it. Just the fumes would suck the moisture out of anything.
>
> Just in case anyone recommends formaldehyde, make sure you only get it on
> the sole, and don't do it very often. By the way, it will really harden
> the sole.
I'm confused by this idea of hard/versus soft feet in horses.
If you're travelling over rocky terrain, you want the horse's
feet to be hard, so he gets no bruises on his soles, right?.
But you also want his frog to be rubbery, to absorb shock, to keep
his legs sound?
Where I board my mare, the ground basically sucks all moisture
out of the horses' hooves, so most of last summer, Mouse (who's
not shod) had really brittle feet and her frogs were like rocks.
Now the rain has come, I suddenly see what her feet are supposed
to be like. But wonder if she will be more tenderfooted because
of it.
Any thoughts?
--
**************************************************************
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
**************************************************************
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:49:50 -0700
Message-ID: <01bd1d48$82db41a0$828287cf@willard>
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I can hardly tell you how much your note helped me today when I checked =
mail. Buddy and I just got back from a short relaxing(HA) ride around =
the neighborhood. He is one of those horses that always wants to go. =
He was originally supposed to be a Western Pleasure horse but didn't =
have the laid back attitude and go-slow gait needed for that. He always =
seems to want to see where we are going next. Always wants to be first =
to get there. Guess I won't give up on him yet.
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I can hardly tell you how much your =
note helped=20
me today when I checked mail. Buddy and I just got back from a =
short=20
relaxing(HA) ride around the neighborhood. He is one of those =
horses that=20
always wants to go. He was originally supposed to be a Western =
Pleasure=20
horse but didn't have the laid back attitude and go-slow gait needed for =
that. He always seems to want to see where we are going =
next. Always=20
wants to be first to get there. Guess I won't give up on him=20
yet.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 14:51:18 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
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> >>>hunt,
> >>>show hack, dressage, parade, driving, penning, and endurance. Oh yes,
> >>>and top
> >>>5 in halter in her youth! This was a $4000 18 years ago! A big price?
Just to brag a bit, My $350 12 yr old horse has won in halter, placed in
Hunt seat, and Western, has been packed on, team penned, team sorted,
done gymkana events, 50 miler endurance rides and is now teaching my 6
yr old to ride. Only thing we still want to try is driving, and we'll
get to it one of these days....
Just isn't the purchase price that makes the horse! Look at the
adopted mustangs that are out there competing in dressage! (and
endurance)
tracy
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To: zebella@idt.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Message-ID: <19980110.031500.4382.2.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com> <19980109.182620.12334.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
<34B63A68.377A@idt.net>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 17:21:33 EST
On Fri, 09 Jan 1998 07:55:36 -0700 Zebella <zebella@idt.net> writes:
>Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>> Just in case anyone recommends formaldehyde, make sure you only get
>it on
>> the sole, and don't do it very often. By the way, it will really
>harden
>> the sole.
>>
>
>
>Just curious, where do you buy formaldehyde?
>
>tracy
>
>My vet sells it to me by the pint. It was cheep, a couple of dollars or
so. He has his own veterinary supply business. This may require a
license to dispense,but he trusts me, and allows me to buy pretty much
what I want.
By the way, his receptionist said she couldn't pour it up for me because
she wears contacts. I guess the fumes would just glue those suckers
right to her eyeballs!
Angie McGhee
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <46d6cf0b.34b69f29@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:05:28 EST
To: fourhorn@fea.net
Cc: Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dry Feet
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Ariat Extreme riding boots- Great for keeping feet warm and dry. Very
comfortable too.
Debby
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 14:52:06 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
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Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
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Debbyly wrote:
>
> I have been reading all these postings bragging about bargain horses. Your
> message about paying what a horse is worth encouraged me to add my opinion.
> Good breeders can only continue breeding programs specifically for endurance
> horses if endurance riders are willing to pay for good endurance prospects.
> Three years ago I purchased a two year old gelding from Bellesemo Arabians.
> He is now five and starting to do endurance. I think he is going to be
> wonderful. I paid more for him than I would have for a backyard horse, but in
> the long run the difference is minimal. The purchase price is often the least
> of the expenses involved with owning a horse. I hope that more endurance
> riders will turn to reputable breeders when looking for a prospect so that
> breeding programs can continue. Sometimes bargain hunting can be
> shortsighted.
>
> Debby
I think the difference in paying a premium price (and I'm not saying
unreasonable, just not a bargain basement price) vs. paying $500 is the
"mystery" involved. It's really not all that often that horses worth
$10,000 are available for $500---what you're really buying is a grab bag
that may or may not include hidden weaknesses, the remainders of other
people nutritional, handling and management mistakes, past invisible
injuries, etc etc. You're also very often (not always) having to trust,
sight unseen, the past know-how and experience of some breeder, trainer,
rider,etc that may or may not have done right by the horse. If you're
lucky and have a good eye for a horse, hopefully there's also good
athletic potential in your grab bag. So when you're buying a "bargain"
horse, yes, you are taking a big chance that that horse will come out on
top or maybe he won't.
I, too, would have no problem with paying top dollar for a really good
prospect from someone that I trusted to have raised a young horse with
good nutrition, health management, handling and genetic selection---as
you did from Bellesemo. You just happened to skip a good part of the
"mystery" by buying a horse with as few unknowns as are possible in a
young, untried horse. In our family, we skipped part of the mystery
(and took chances on others) by breeding our own future prospects---I
knew the mare, I knew the stallion and I had direct control over every
facet of management. Of course, we took the chances that the genetic
poker hand would come out the way we wanted! In our case, it did.
I agree with you that buyers looking for a serious prospect should be
willing to pay decent money for someone else's hard work in raising a
good baby. But there are also alot of so-called "breeders" out there
that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a breeding shed, and/or are
ruining perfectly nice, young horses and are turning potentially great
horses into $500 bargains. If someone if willing to take a chance and
put the commitment into re-training someone else's mistakes into a good
horse, then more power to them. It's the equine equivalent of
high-stakes poker and sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. More
power to those who have won, but I don't blame anyone for going to a
reputable breeder and skipping as much of the gamble as possible. As I
posted yesterday, everyone pays in the end, the only difference is in
when you pay and in what currency.
Just my .02, of course. Your mileage may vary.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 14:56:04 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: Suspensory Question
Everything I've heard is true to my own experiences.
Just because the horse is sound does not mean there is no damage.
Just because the horse reacts to a pinched tendon doesn't mean
there IS damage. (Summary of our online vet help).
This is what I'd like to add (even though I'm not a vet.): ;-)
If your horse has some very minor tearing and you leave it out
in pasture it might appear sound, but will not heal.
Visible swelling is indicative of damage. Some horses will
trot sound even with visible swelling.
As Dr. Heidi said, if in doubt, ultrasound will show you what,
if anything, is going on. If there is some tearing, it will
most probably reappear off and on as a vague lameness during
your horse's carreer unless treated and allowed to heal
completely and properly. <--- unfortunately, this takes time.
Just ask Jerry Rice.
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
... who is the most sure footed horse I've ridden.
Not all TB's are klutzes...
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 15:08:40 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wise buy!/demand=price?quality=price?
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A few years ago when my filly was growing up in Santa Ynez (ritzy horse
country in Central Coast California, where Michael Jackson has his
ranch, etc---my filly lived there but *I* had to commute three hours
from Reality to go visit her! :-D ), right next door was Magness
Arabians, the largest pure Poliish herd outside Poland. Some of the
most stellar Polish and Russian horses you ever saw in your LIFE and in
1990, they were still putting 150-200 babies on the ground every year.
They kept all the fillies, but weaned the colts quite early and sorted
out the future halter perfection prospects from everything else. I saw
dozens and dozens of spectacularly bred and built young horses whose
only fault was being just another grey, or a bay with kinda funny uneven
white on his face or whatever. Anyone asking could take their pick for
about a hundred bucks or so and get the papers when they sent back proof
of gelding. Whatever didn't sell this way in large part ended up as
lion food at the San Diego Zoo (no kidding).
I know of several people that picked up a baby this way and although
they had to raise the baby from scratch, ended up with really nice
horses that would have been excellent endurance prospects. Just another
tidbit to throw into the pot, for what it's worth.
Susan
Zebella wrote:
>
> Cheryl Newbanks wrote:
> > yes there are tons of PERFECTLY bred arabs out there for dirt cheap whom we
> > can give another chance at life to! Tracy isn't your $350 arab bask line
> > bred???
>
> Yep, he's by a double Bask stud (Bask daughter x Bask son) and out of a
> Naborr daughter. His daddy is used to breed Park horse, thank goodness
> Pro didn't get any of that! He looks just like Naborr in every way.
> (well, minus a few appendages) <G>
>
> I think it may very well be the fact that we are so close to Scottsdale
> that we have so many cheap Arabs running around. I saw an El Sharif
> daughter sell for $300 at a auction once. Heck, go to the sales at
> Grandon's Arabians.....you can pick up some of the most well known
> bloodlines for *under* $1000! Lots of them are even sweepstakes
> nominated. They sell for way under the stud fee it cost to produce
> them.
>
> You have to be careful no matter wheteher you buy a $500 horse or a
> $5000 one. My point was that price is no definite indication of quality
> when it comes to live animals.
>
> tracy
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:28:59, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dry Feet
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I ride in a full slicker. It covers not only my feet, but my saddle, too!
It can also cover my hands! I stay perfectly dry. I love it, only I wish
it had a hood!
PS Make sure your horse can handle this...if not sure, put the slicker on
the back of your saddle, draped, then slip in on AFTER you are on!
(Learned the hard way and ended up in the hospital!)
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
Home of FA AL BADI+/
OK
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 15:45:07 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: ruthb@tdsi.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: mealtime peeing
References: <9801082036.AA01960@cody.unavco> <34B595BD.7ECB@cfw.com> <34B5A32E.7E54@tdsi.net>
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> My mare always goes over to the corner of her paddock and pees when she
> sees me coming out with her feed. I don't think it has anything to do
> with being territorial in her case. She just takes her food very, very
> seriously and if she pees first, then she can eat her meals in comfort,
My husband's smart little mare Katy does this too when it's mealtime.
Cato finally figured it out and several months later, he's doing it as
well. Dakota aka George of the Jungle aka Spudnuts has REALLY got it
figured out. While Katy and Cato are busily peeing off in far corners,
he wolfs down as much grain as possible in his bucket. Then, when Katy
and Cato are eating theirs, he walks over and pees RIGHT NEXT TO THEM,
as close and splashily as possible. Katy throws up her head in total
disgust and revulsion, backs up and walks away, leaving Dakota to eat
her grain, too. I'm not sure if Dakota is the smartest of the bunch or
is just the reincarnation of John Belushi in Animal House. :-D
Susan
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From: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Reply-to: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Date: Fri, 09 Jan 98 15:48:34 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <199801070509.VAA07478@fsr.com>
Cc: Naztari@aol.com
Subject: Re: Biothane Halter
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.29 (Unregistered)
>------------------------------
>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 21:58:36 EST
>From: Naztari <Naztari@aol.com>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Biothane Halter
>Message-ID: <d868024.34b2ef64@aol.com>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>I am interested in Sportack's Boiothane Halter with Add On Bridle. Has
>anyone used this combination? Any comments?
>Ed Roley
For what it's worth I've used a biothane halter with "add-on-bridle" from
The Australian Connection for several years. They were the first to come
out with this item. I also use the clip-on headstall part with a rope
halter. They can be reached at 916-791-1542. I switched to their new rope
reigns too and think they are the most comfortable reigns I have ever
used. Plus you get color choices!!
----------------------------------------------------
Raymond Santana
Network Operations
UC Davis Medical Center
Sacramento, CA
rtsantana@ucdavis.edu or
raymond.santana@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:03:23 -0600
To: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>, rayo@cfw.com
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Groundwork vs. Riding
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <75f0203c.34b5ac53@aol.com>
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Trish,
My Star had an attitude problem when I first got him. His tricks were
spinning and rearing and he was terrified of water. Now he plows through
all kinds of water, and doesn't rear or spin, unless I cue him to do it.
What I've learned is CONSISTENCY in cues is extremely important. When Star
gets upset, it is usally because I have, inadvertently, given him too many
cues -- my legs may have been telling him one thing and the reins something
else. I have become a very aware rider now. My older horse is more of the
"push button" variety. You didn't really have to think on him much and I
got lazy as a rider.
Star has always been very well behaved on the ground, but I was fearful on
his back adn he picked up on that. when I became bolder and calmer, he
became much more fun to ride. I've had him a year now and he is a much
different horse. The lady who sold him to me said she should send me a
second half bill because he has turned out so well. I said I would match
that with a bill for training.
If you want to email me privately with some of your specific problems,
maybe we can put our heads together and come up with solutions. Be glad to
share. No point in reinventing the wheel, eh?
chris paus & star
At 11:49 PM 1/8/98 EST, Trishmare wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-06 23:35:23 EST, you write:
>
><< . The current orthodoxy seems to be that all
> under saddle behaviour troubles are groundwork and/or pecking order
> problems.My horse is an angel in hand,he follows me around like a dog,and
> he is responding quickly and with enthusiasm to my novice attempts at
> groundwork.I'm going to do the groundwork and see how things go-it's
> fun.But I must say I'm not optimistic that it'll have any effect under
> saddle.I believe the solution,if it is found,will occur under
> saddle. >>
>
>I too, will be waiting breathlessly for these answers, as I've similar
>problems with my horse David--he is a big labrador retriever when worked from
>the ground. I can't correct him from groundwork because he rarely does
>anything wrong. It is only after I am on his back that things can get
hairy.
>
>Trish & "pretty David"
>
>
>
109180323.00b5ad08@mail.micoks.net>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:08:34 -0600
To: Luke Steele <luke.steele@fujitsu.com.au>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980109175225.006a1cac@mel0111>
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We have to train on gravel roads, and our local horse trails are hilly and
rocky. My farrier suggested wide web shoes and they are terrific. I get
more resets from them than from traditional shoes and Star has never come
up with a stone bruise. I know several endurance adn CTR riders here in
eastern Kansas who use these shoes.
chris paus & star
At 05:52 PM 1/9/98 +1100, Luke Steele wrote:
>To harden my horses feet, I use stones and rocks.
>I moved from a wet region to a drier place with well-drained, rocky paddocks.
>We train over stony and rocky terrain.
>The fact that we have had well below our average rainfall for 13 of the
>past 16 months has contributed to *very* hard feet!
>Gradually introducing training over stony tracks will toughen your horse's
>feet naturally, however, with Nikita's flat, shelly feet I found the use of
>Shocktamer Rim Pads also helped her through two intensive years of
>competition.
>
>Regards,
>
>Luke
>
>
>steelela@hotmail.com -or-
>horseman@hotkey.net.au
>http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Trails/7483/
>Luke and Nikita and Sarah and Shadrach
>Riddells Creek, Victoria, Australia
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:17:24 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: zebella@idt.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
References: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com> <19980109.182620.12334.1.Rides2far@juno.com> <34B63A68.377A@idt.net>
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Zebella wrote:
>
> Angela C. McGhee wrote:
> > Just in case anyone recommends formaldehyde, make sure you only get it on
> > the sole, and don't do it very often. By the way, it will really harden
> > the sole.
> >
>
> Just curious, where do you buy formaldehyde?
>
> tracy
Ummm, formaldehyde is highly toxic and I believe a carcinogen---and
gloves won't get around it, as it's highly volatile (turns into
vapours). They don't even use it in biological supply houses anymore in
favor of formalin (and even that isn't a toy). I think you can get the
same hardening benefits without the risk by using iodine or something
else. Any hardening benefits to formaldehyde are not worth the risk to
your own health, folks.
Don't mind me, just being a fussy mother hen today...
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:18:19 -0600
To: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Yosemite--Old Age, Alas! The Cavalry to the Rescue!
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <53256e9d.34b63efe@aol.com>
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Hi -
A group of us mounted a letter writing campaign to the local park office
and state officials. Only 7 letters went out from horse people, but it got
their attention. I got a letter today from the Kansas parks & wildlife
dept. inviting me to a meeting at our local state park to discuss the issue
with state and local officials. They have invited all the letter writers to
a working sessino to hammer out an agreement.
It doesn't take many, they just have to think those 7 riders are backed by
700!
Alas, it will be 6 riders at the meeting -- I am a newspaper reporter (wish
I could cover this) and have to attend a meeting to do with one of my
beats. Damn the luck. I will make sure the local ranger knows my position.
chris paus & star
At 10:15 AM 1/9/98 EST, Trishmare wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-08 20:59:30 EST, you write:
>
><< trail was originally cut by horse people (with permission). Then a new
> range came ont he scene and decided she wanted that trail just for hikers
> and mountain bikes.
>
> My training buddy and I rode that trail dozens of times this summer and
> NEVER saw a mountain bike, and saw walkers only once. And they were
> thrilled to see and pet our horses. It's the pits >>
>
>They have closed some local trails near me to riders as of last summer as
>well. I only found out about it recently, as I haven't used those particular
>trails lately. The DNR (Dept. of Natural Resource)'s excuse: area horseman
>already have nice horse trails in Hadley, they don't need them in Holly too.
>Though I have seen hikers on these trails, they have never seemed to mind the
>horses! I'm not one to just shrug my shoulders and say, "oh well," however,
>and am going to check out the options on getting these trails re-opened to
>horses.
>
>Trish & "pretty David"
>
>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:30:50 -0600
To: Nat & Richard <trailride@foothill.net>, Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Yosemite--Old Age, Alas! The Cavalry to the Rescue!
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34B671EC.1D9D@foothill.net>
References: <53256e9d.34b63efe@aol.com>
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One solution park management suggested is that the horse people cut a
second trail 5 feet away from the first trail we cut. Horses use one,
hikers, bikers the other. How silly!
We do have 30 miles of trail on the other side of the lake, but those of us
onthe west side are spoiled having a nice rolling trail that is riding
distance from home. From my house to the end of the trail adn back is a
nice 10 mile hack, good for training.
When we want challenge, we trailer over t othe other side and do the rocks
and hills.
we'll see what happens. If any of you are ever in Kansas, come on over.
I'll show you there are HILLS here. (and trees)
chris paus & star
At 10:52 AM 1/9/98 -0800, Nat & Richard wrote:
>You might consider going for half-a-loaf and get at least some of the
>access back on those trails you mention: See if the ranger will go for
>a time-share arrangement, where half the week the trail is reserved for
>hikers and bikers, the rest for horses.
>
>With that foot in the door, you can then push for a bigger share if you
>are using your half more than the hikers/bikers are using theirs.
>
>Good luck /richard
>
>--
>Natalie's Barn & Breakfast -- a B&B for horses ...and their riders
> Visit us at http://www.foothill.net/natalies (530) 637-4644
> Also, the OFFICIAL TEVIS SITE, http://www.foothill.net/tevis
>
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:32:51 -0600
To: iggy <polstar@ll.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
In-Reply-To: <v03007803b0dc1b87e392@[206.9.135.36]>
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Thanks Sigrid,
My dream horse is a black Arab mare, for which I know I'll have to pay far
more than I paid for Star. but the horse I wasn't sure about buying, has
turned out to be my best horsey friend. One of my friends commented that
Star has come so far and become such a good horse in a year. she said "It
is because you had faith in him."
chris paus & star
At 01:28 PM 1/9/98 -0600, iggy wrote:
>Dear Sandy
>
>
>Where are you going with this? Sorry you were offended, it was not ment in
>that spirit? This is a discussion of encouraging people to compete in
>endurance events at what ever level they can, even with a low cost horse.
>and what I though was a funny story. I don't care what any one pays for a
>horse. Where is the threat?
>
>Cost does not NECESSARILY mean quality and performance There is NO
>argument on this . This is a friendly discussion about diamonds in the
>rough (It ain't that heavy)
>
>Just neat stories about nice horses, nice people saying"I didn't spend a
>lot for my horse, we do quite well"
>
>If the horse you want is 5000. go for it. If your dream horse happens to
>only be 300. go for it.
>
>As far as the comment on Horse breeders (It was a compliment) Most breeders
>we know are capable in there field and are not dependent on the support of
>any group of people. There business dealings and breeding programs create
>the demand and success of there Breeding farms....... I was responding to
>the person referring to "we as a group" comment.
>
>Got to go, Have a nice day
>
>Sigrid
>
>***************************************************************************
****>
>>
>>>>In a message dated 98-01-09 12:34:47 EST, you write:
>>>>
>>>><< The point is You don't need a 4,000. + dollar horse to compete (and
>>>>compete
>>>> well.) Price of horses should never discourage an individual from
thinking
>>>> a 200 horse can not compete. Horse breeders can take care of them
>>>> selves.......
>>>> >>
>>>>I am srtuggling with the import of this paragraph. Can someone help me? I
>>>>THINK she means don't worry about the breeders. If so, FINE. However,
there
>>>>are a number of us who eventually include (or perhaps along with distance)
>>>>breeding, showing and other competition that require certain qualities not
>>>>usually found in the $500 horse. For example, all those $500 yearling
and 2
>>>>year old halter champ babies - I have seen many and riden a few and
>>>>considered
>>>>a couple. None were suited to the wide variety of activities we use our
>>>>horses
>>>>for. And so, $3-5000 is what we expect to pay for a horse of expansive
>>>>quality
>>>>and potential, never mind proven ability. We don't consider halter
>>>>ability or
>>>>quality or potential. And so most bargain horses just don't suit us. IT
just
>>>>depends upon what your longterm expectations are for your horse and
>>>>yourself.
>>>>Perhaps the best hrose I ever had is still with me - our 23 year old
>>>>mare, who
>>>>is getting ready for the trip down to a 25 miler. She has gone western,
>>>>hunt,
>>>>show hack, dressage, parade, driving, penning, and endurance. Oh yes,
>>>>and top
>>>>5 in halter in her youth! This was a $4000 18 years ago! A big price?
>>>>Certainly! Unproven? Yes indeed! Potential? Obviously. A LOT of work?
Which
>>>>horses aren't. But she wasn't cheap. She IS worth every penny. And so am I
>>>>glad I didn't wait around for teh bargain girl? Yes indeed! Wish us
luck! I
>>>>HATE to be wet!
>>>>sandy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:54:02 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: a whole new thread -- saddles & rain
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I finally got my Christmas present I ordered for myself. (My dear husband
tries, but last year got me a sewing basket instead of riding gear).
The present is a lovely Outback Campdrafter saddle that fits Star like a
glove. Finally -- the 12th saddle. My problem is El Nino. It rains here or
snows all the time. What can I do to protect the saddle. Will something
like snow seal work?
I've never worried about it before. My old appy mare once got down and
rolled in a mud and water hole in my custom barrel saddle. I just cursed
the mare and cleaned the saddle and it was fine. But what about riding in
rain>>
chris
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:10:14 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801100110.RAA27099@fsr.com>
Subject: Bob Marshall Sports Saddle
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From: courtney wilder
Email: courtney28@hotmail.com
Has anyone ever had a Bob Marshall Sports Saddle? I just ordered one today. I have borrowed one from a friend and fell in love with it. If anyone has one, do you like it? Does it have any problems, uncomfortable for the horse? ETC! If anyone has ever used one, please email me back. (i do not do long endurance rides, just trail riding)
Thanks, Courtney
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From: courtney wilder
Email: courtney28@hotmail.com
Has anyone ever had a Bob M5415 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000004016 06455556072 0013117 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from onramp.micoks.net (onramp.micoks.net [209.153.98.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00337 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 18:25:57 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 20:22:57 -0600
To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, zebella@idt.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34B6BE14.204E@worldnet.att.net>
References: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com>
<19980109.182620.12334.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
<34B63A68.377A@idt.net>
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Thanks for speaking up Susan. I believe in simplicity and not toxicity in
dealing with my horses. I'm lucky to have a horse with hard feet, but there
must be less toxic ways to toughen them up if need be.
chris paus & star
At 04:17 PM 1/9/98 -0800, Susan Evans Garlinghouse wrote:
>Zebella wrote:
>>
>> Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>> > Just in case anyone recommends formaldehyde, make sure you only get it on
>> > the sole, and don't do it very often. By the way, it will really harden
>> > the sole.
>> >
>>
>> Just curious, where do you buy formaldehyde?
>>
>> tracy
>
>
>Ummm, formaldehyde is highly toxic and I believe a carcinogen---and
>gloves won't get around it, as it's highly volatile (turns into
>vapours). They don't even use it in biological supply houses anymore in
>favor of formalin (and even that isn't a toy). I think you can get the
>same hardening benefits without the risk by using iodine or something
>else. Any hardening benefits to formaldehyde are not worth the risk to
>your own health, folks.
>
>Don't mind me, just being a fussy mother hen today...
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 19:17:25 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801100317.TAA01910@fsr.com>
Subject: NO ROC 98?
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From: debbie zanot
Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
Heard a rumor that there is not going to be a 98 Race of Champions. Anyone know if it is true or the reasons why?
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From: Keeyun <Keeyun@aol.com>
Message-ID: <80b8245c.34b6ee65@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:43:31 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: trouble
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Hi I am still having trouble connecting to ride camp. I am getting all of my
mail but i can not connect to the site. Do you think it will help if I
unsubscribed and then resubscribed.
I really miss not being able to connect
Kelly
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 20:25:39 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801100425.UAA05384@fsr.com>
Subject: Sore Feet
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From: Beverly Gray
Email: bgray@xmission.com
Hawthore Products (1-800-548-5658) has some great products for the sore or tender-foot. Try the Freezez Hoof Freeze to toughen the hooves. If you already have bruising try the Sole Pack. It is medicated and helps draw the soreness. It comes in a dressing (use under pads) and in single packs that fit perfectly in an Easy Boot. I usually pack with my Easy Boots on rides.
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:22:19 -0600
From: Ruth Bourgeois <ruthb@tdsi.net>
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To: &endurance group <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
References: <199801081805.KAA27538@fsr.com> <19980109.182620.12334.1.Rides2far@juno.com> <34B63A68.377A@idt.net> <34B6BE14.204E@worldnet.att.net>
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Susan Evans Garlinghouse wrote:
> Ummm, formaldehyde is highly toxic and I believe a carcinogen---and
> gloves won't get around it, as it's highly volatile (turns into
> vapours). They don't even use it in biological supply houses anymore in
> favor of formalin (and even that isn't a toy). I think you can get the
> same hardening benefits without the risk by using iodine or something
> else. Any hardening benefits to formaldehyde are not worth the risk to
> your own health, folks.
I use Venice turpentine, available from most vet supply catalogs, to
toughen up my horse's soles if necessary. That's what my farrier
recommended. The full strength iodine also works.
Ruth
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:22:19 -0600
From: Ruth Bourgeois <ruthb@tdsi.net>
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From: "Lucie A. Hess" <lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu>
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To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: a whole new thread -- saddles & rain
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After I clean my saddles, which may be once a year, (IF I'm in the Mood)
I follow up with a coat of Mink oil. I have used it for years and I think
it helps with the water, and yes we often ride until our saddles are
soaked all the way through. I've ridden too many memorial day rides at
Blue and Grey , where it rained HARD all weekend, that's not counting the
rides we had severe weather and a tornado at. Any one else having a
visual or a Flash back?
Lucie Hess
Columbia, Missouri
Chief Black Arrow -retired Appy
Moonhill Dandi -current mount- 7/8 Arab
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8d642bc8.34b6fde1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:49:33 EST
To: suendavid@WORLDNET.ATT.NET, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
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Ummm--formalin IS formaldehyde--just 1/4 strength....
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:01:59 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801100501.VAA08125@fsr.com>
Subject: Horse Trailors
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From: Mary Abbott
Email: mabbott@oro.net
Hi! I would like some recommendations. We're looking for a slant 3 trailor with living quarters--mostly just shower and bathroom. Got any pointers? Things to look out for? We need to keep it under 21 feet. Thanks!
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To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
Cc: suendavid@WORLDNET.ATT.NET, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Message-ID: <19980110.100502.13926.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <8d642bc8.34b6fde1@aol.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:11:08 EST
On Fri, 9 Jan 1998 23:49:33 EST CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com> writes:
>Ummm--formalin IS formaldehyde--just 1/4 strength....
O.K. Heidi, long as you're on this one, and I guess I sorta got this
formaldehyde thing going. I'd like your opinion on this.
There's been lots of what folks are calling "White line disease" coming
and going around here. The old timers say it's simply a form of thrush
that attacks the hoof wall. Two years ago, almost overnight it seemed
all my unshod horses (the ponies) were stricken with it and you could
literally run a hoof pick up to an inch in the seperation around their
white line. My vet had me soak cotton in iodine and glycerine and pack
it up in there. It was messy, time consuming and took forever to work.
This year I saw it coming on again. Some people seem to think it goes
with weather patterns. Whatever, I painted it with formaldehyde. I
figured that would kill anything that liked moisture. Bingo. It was
gone faster than I could have imagined. Know anyone else who is using
this? Was it disappearance a coincidence? One case on a neighbor's
horse was fairly advanced. Another neighbor had a farrier who trimmed
away all the damaged hoof and that mare was out of commission much
longer.
I'd appreciate your input. (Or anyone else's)
Angie McGhee and Kaboot (think I'll just keep my shoes on thankyou)
>
>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
>
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Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:27:53 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Cheryl Newbanks <horsetrails@inficad.com>
Subject: Non endurance related: But then again????
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Hey all, in light of the recent posts on best type of horse, next endurance
purchase I thought this little Joke/food for thought may engage our
brains!! For some reason I thought it could be endurance related in a round
about way!!!! <VBG>!
>From: "Newbanks, John P(Z07916)" <Z07916@apsc.com>
>To: "'Cheryl Newbanks'" <horsetrails@inficad.com>
>Subject: FW: Duh?
>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 16:24:11 -0700
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version
4.0.994.63
>
>
>
>> SEVERAL DOZEN OF THE STUPIDEST THINGS EVER SAID
>>
>>"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons." --Popular
>>Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science,
>>1949
>>
>>"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." --Thomas
>>Watson, Chairman of IBM, 1943
>>
>>"I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with
>>the best people, and I can assure you that data processing
>>is a fad that won't last out the year." --The editor in charge of
>>business books for Prentice Hall, 1957
>>
>>"But what ... is it good for?" --Engineer at the Advanced Computing
>>Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the
>>microchip.
>>
>>"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." --Ken
>>Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital
>>Equipment Corp., 1977
>>
>>"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as
>>a means of communication. The device is inherently
>>of no value to us." --Western Union internal memo, 1876.
>>
>>"The wireless music box has no imaginable commercial value. Who would pay
>>for a message sent to nobody in particular?"
>>--David Sarnoff's associates in response to his urgings for investment in
>>the radio in the 1920s.
>>
>>"The concept is interesting and well-formed, but in order to earn better
>>than a 'C,' the idea must be feasible." --A Yale University
>>management professor in response to Fred Smith's paper proposing reliable
>>overnight delivery service. (Smith went on to found
>>Federal Express Corp.)
>>
>>"Who the hell wants to hear actors talk?" --H.M. Warner, Warner Brothers,
>>1927.
>>
>>"I'm just glad it'll be Clark Gable who's falling on his face and not
>>Gary Cooper." --Gary Cooper on his decision not to take the
>>leading role in "Gone With The Wind."
>>
>>"A cookie store is a bad idea. Besides, the market research reports say
>>America likes crispy cookies, not soft and chewy
>>cookies like you make." --Response to Debbi Fields' idea of starting Mrs.
>>Fields' Cookies.
>>
>>"We don't like their sound, and guitar music is on the way out." --Decca
>>Recording Co. rejecting the Beatles, 1962.
>>
>>"Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." --Lord Kelvin,
>>president, Royal Society, 1895.
>>
>>"If I had thought about it, I wouldn't have done the experiment. The
>>literature was full of examples that said you can't do this."
>>--Spencer Silver on the work that led to the unique adhesives for 3-M
>>"Post-It" Notepads.
>>
>>"So we went to Atari and said, 'Hey, we've got this amazing thing, even
>>built with some of your parts, and what do you think
>>about funding us? Or we'll give it to you. We just want to do it. Pay our
>>salary, we'll come work for you.' And they said, 'No.' So
>>then we went to Hewlett-Packard, and they said, 'Hey, we don't need you.
>>You haven't got through college yet.'" --Apple
>>Computer Inc. founder, Steve Jobs, on attempts to get Atari and H-P
>>interested in his and Steve Wozniak's personal computer.
>>
>>"Professor Goddard does not know the relation between action and reaction
>>and the need to have something better than a
>>vacuum against which to react. He seems to lack the basic knowledge
>>ladled out daily in high schools." --1921 New York Times
>>editorial about Robert Goddard's revolutionary rocket work.
>>
>>"You want to have consistent and uniform muscle development across all of
>>your muscles? It can't be done. It's just a fact of life.
>>You just have to accept inconsistent muscle development as an unalterable
>>condition of weight training." --Response to Arthur
>>Jones, who solved the "unsolvable" problem by inventing Nautilus.
>>
>>"Drill for oil? You mean drill into the ground to try and find oil?
>>You're crazy." --Drillers who Edwin L. Drake tried to enlist to his
>>project to drill for oil in 1859.
>>
>>"Stocks have reached what looks like a permanently high plateau."
>>--Irving Fisher, Professor of Economics, Yale University,
>>1929.
>>
>>"Airplanes are interesting toys but of no military value." --Marechal
>>Ferdinand Foch, Professor of Strategy, Ecole Superieure de
>>Guerre.
>>
>>"Everything that can be invented has been invented." --Charles H. Duell,
>>Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.
>>
>>"Louis Pasteur's theory of germs is ridiculous fiction". --Pierre Pachet,
>>Professor of Physiology at Toulouse, 1872.
>>
>>"The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the
>>intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon". --Sir John Eric
>>Ericksen, British surgeon, appointed Surgeon- Extraordinary to Queen
>>Victoria 1873.
>>
>>"640K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981
>>
>>
>>In certain sections of Pennsylvania many years ago, the Farmer's
>>Anti-Automobile society set up some "rules of the road." In
>>effect, they said:
>>
>> 1."Automobiles travelling on country roads at night must send up a
>>rocket every mile, then wait ten minutes for the road to
>> clear."
>> 2."If a driver sees a team of horses, he is to pull to one side of the
>>road and cover his machine with a blanket or dust cover
>> that has been painted to blend into the scenery."
>> 3."In the event that a horse refuses to pass a car on the road, the
>>owner must take his car apart and conceal the parts in
>> the bushes."
>
>
>
>
>
>
Cheryl Newbanks
~~ ^ ^ Just In Time Ranch
~~~\ _ ~~/ /\ / Buckeye, AZ
( )__ ) ' ' horsetrails@inficad.com
// \\
// \\
** **
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <434b6684.34b70cbd@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 00:53:00 EST
To: rides2far@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
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Hi, Angie--
I think you are right to be using a drying agent on the so-called "white line"
disease. Formaldehyde certainly is one. Another one is 7% strong tincture of
iodine. (I would wonder about the glycerine, as it tends to keep things
moist--also, would wonder if perhaps you were using a tamed iodine solution
like Betadine or something, which does not have the drying action of strong
tincture of iodine.) Coppertox is also useful. (Incidentally, all of these
make good sole tougheners.)
Another real favorite of mine for invasive sorts of things with cracks and
crevasses in the hoof (including "white line" disease, advanced thrush, and
sole punctures or abcesses that are past the "acute" draining stage) is a
combination of iodine crystals and turpentine. (You can usually get the
iodine crystals at a farrier supply.) First you pack the affected area with
iodine crystals. Then you pour the turpentine on. This process generates a
lot of heat and a thick cloud of purple smoke that is very irritating and
toxic to breathe, so DON'T BREATHE THE FUMES! I also take the precaution of
wrapping a towel around the coronet band, so that you do not have any of the
resulting mixture run down the hoof wall and burn the coronet band. I also
advise wearing gloves.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>, "Luke Steele" <luke.steele@fujitsu.com.au>
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 21:38:06 -0800
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The rocks and stones I have. It is the drier place I am missing. Do you know
of anything that will dry out large areas - like all of western Washington.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Luke Steele <luke.steele@fujitsu.com.au>
>To harden my horses feet, I use stones and rocks.
>I moved from a wet region to a drier place with well-drained, rocky
paddocks.
>We train over stony and rocky terrain.
>The fact that we have had well below our average rainfall for 13 of the
>past 16 months has contributed to *very* hard feet!
>Gradually introducing training over stony tracks will toughen your horse's
>feet naturally, however, with Nikita's flat, shelly feet I found the use of
>Shocktamer Rim Pads also helped her through two intensive years of
>competition.
>
>Regards,
>
>Luke
>
>
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The rocks and stones I have. It is the drier place I am missing. Do you know
of anything that will dry out large areas - like all of western Washington.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Me5427 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003631 06455667342 0013127 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from fh101.infi.net (fh101.infi.net [208.131.160.100]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA20129 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 04:51:41 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34B76EDE.5FF2@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:51:43 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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Organization: InfiNet
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Subject: FLORIDA ENDURANCE CLASSIC 7 MARCH '98
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Dear Group,
For any and all who might be interested, the FLORIDA ENDURANCE CLASSIC
entries are hot off the press (finally!) and will be mailed out direct-
ly to those who request them.
RIDE DATE: 7 March '98 - Withlacoochee State Forest - Citrus Tract
LOCATION: Just outside of Inverness, Fl.
WHERE'S THAT?: Find Ocala, Fl on map..point West to the Gulf, back up
a little and you'll run across Inverness (just E. of
Crystal River)..OR about 85 mi. No. of Tampa
TRAILS: This is virtually a no-hazzard forest; it is a lovely 41,000
acre tract of sandy forest roads & trails running through
various types of pine and oak hammocks with a gentle roll to the
land...it is definitely a good work-out..the sand is not hock
deep...it's light to moderate..no pavement.This is a dry forest.
Mgmt. will provide water at checks & out on trail.
DISTANCES: 1 day 100, 50 and LD 25 --- Join us!
INFO/ENTRY: Deena Meyer, Ride Manager
carlmey@citrus.infi.net IMPORTANT! Entries CLOSE 17 Feb.
(352)637-4311 SORRY, NO POST ENTRIES
10155 S. Forestline Ave.
Inverness, Fl. 34452
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From: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:00:59 -0500
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To: Kathy Myers <kathy@nvolve.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Suspensory Question
References: <v03007808b0dc4fb098cc@[204.162.114.203]>
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Kathy,
Thanks for the input. I checked my mare again this morning and she
seems okay. She's had a month off so maybe that helped. How long does
it take to heal if there was a tear? I will keep an eye on it and get a
sonogram if something starts up. Fortunately, I noticed no swelling.
Lots of horses at the ride were diagnosed with sore suspensories. That
makes me wonder although the ride was muddy, wet and cold. Thanks
again.
Karen
Ormond Beach
Karen
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:38:26 -0500
From: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospects
Sender: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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<<I realize breeders have to pay for stud fees, vet care, horse feed,
training time, etc., adn must recoup that in the young stock they sell.
but, some of us aren't cheapskates, we just haven't won Powerball yet!
chris paus & star>>
I am one of those breeders who finally had to give it up after a little
more than twenty years, and all I wanted was to break even! I found the
'show people' wanted brand names, and the distance rider went to the stoc=
k
yards. Really miss those babies too.
For all you bargain hunters - I have an 8 yr. old gelding that someone
might enjoy polishing into a diamond. All he needs is time and patience=
and a smart rider. All I want is enough to cover his ninety days trainin=
g
bill. (Dressage, jumping and trail riding). He's a non-registered
pure-bred, by a well known Arab racehorse out of a full sister to a stake=
s
winning mare. Her sire is a Region 14 & 13 CTR Champion and won numerous=
CTRs as well and has sired some nice runners, both on the track and on th=
e
trail. He's a little over 15 H, maybe 15.1. Why selling? I prefer CTRs=
and I think he'd do much better in endurance. To be truthfull I just don=
't
feel comfortable on him. Maybe I'm just too darn old. Location KY
If interested, e-mail JANUSTUDIO.compuServe.com
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dry Feet--Ariat review
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 07:49:18 PST
>From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:05:28 EST
>To: fourhorn@fea.net
>Cc: Ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: Dry Feet
>
>Ariat Extreme riding boots- Great for keeping feet warm and dry. Very
>comfortable too.
>
>Debby
>
>
Last year I posted a rave review about the Ariat "Winter" boots. They
were replaced with the Ariat "Extreme". I must now say I am
"Extreme"-ly disappointed with the change. Here are the things I don't
like about the "Extreme" that were perfect on the old model.
1. Hate that thick roll of fabric at the top. It hurts the back of my
leg. Plus it makes the boot feel bulky and clunky.
2. Hate the way boot fits in the achillies area. It rides too high &
pinches.
3. The tongue is too short and too bulky.
4. They are not comfortable to walk in.
5. Hate the way they cause blisters on the outside of my heels.
6. Hate the way they don't even feel good when you are sitting down.
The old Ariat "Winter" style was a perfect boot.
The Extremes really suck.
MNTBHO
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
a rave review about the Ariat "Winter" boots. They
were replaced with the Ariat "Extreme". I must now say I am
"Extreme"-ly disappointed with the ch5431 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001517 06455716710 0013115 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from pear.epix.net (grape.epix.net [199.224.64.22]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25093 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 08:11:47 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:02:13 -0500
From: Pete and Deb LaBerge <plaberge@epix.net>
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Sue G.-
The ad for Stirrup Straight says they come in 2 1/2" and 3" sizes.
You can call Rollin Beauchane(mfg) at 1-800-772-6282.
Deb LaBerge
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8e73cefe.34b7a0f6@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:25:21 EST
To: spencer@inu.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net, tpbtic@ncats.newaygo.mi.us
Subject: Pony prices and training (long)
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In a message dated 98-01-09 23:27:46 EST, you write:
<< In past few yrs, I have bought 2 'unbroken' but rather untrained older
horses, both over 5. I will do it again. They were not abused too young
by being overridden too young. The white stallions that do the spanish
riding school events are not brought in for training until they are 4.
Mary Ann,TX>>
Dear Mary, I am glad there are people like you out there who are willing and
able to train horses for those of us who don't want to do it. What I meant
was this: when I bought David I thought, #1. It would be "fun" to bring up a
"baby" all by myself, clean slate, don't have to fix someone else's mistakes
or abuse etc. etc. What I failed to take in to consideration ( and was not
entirely aware of myself ) was that I really just want to ride a good horse,
you know? I want to be able to go out to my barn, saddle my horse, and go for
a ride assured I can do so in a reasonable degreee of safety, comfort, and
peace. I don't want to have to worry about what the horse is going to do when
I try to pass the garbage truck on the road ahead, or if he is going to have a
problem with that dog that is running around barking, or if he is going to try
to jump that little stream rather than cross it--etc. etc. etc.
I know these are all problems that can be dealt with through training. I
have found, after the fact, that this training involves a lot more work and
time than I first imagined. No horse is perfect, and all have their little
quirks. I don't mind this. But just started, hyper 3 yr olds have lots and
lots of little quirks!!! Lots. Lots and lots. Too many.
#2. Maybe out on the Colorado plains, with laid back stock horses, JLyons
methods work great, but on Michigan gravel roads, complete with traffic,
garbage bags, ditches to either side of the road, children who come running
out to "pet the horsies" when they see them, clinging to balloons, small dogs,
and other assorted toys as they do so, and on a high strung, 3 year old, just
started arab, JLyons methods don't work so good. I say this from experience.
Trust me.
#3. In my mind, I always have more free time than in real life I
actually do have. Training a horse takes a LOT of free time.
#4. Riding horses for 20 years does NOT qualify one to train them,
contrary to my original belief.
#5. Taking on the training of a young horse without really knowing what
you have gotton yourself in to is a good way to get hurt. I know this from
experience, now.
#6. Trainers, books, videos and clinics purchased to help one once one
realizes they are in over their head cost a lot of money. My husband, at one
point, said, "Sheesh Trish, why didn't you just go out and buy a $10,000.
horse?" I smiled and said, "Don't worry dear, by the time I'm done with David
I'll probably have one!"
#7. These things are, however, cheaper than emergency room visits.
I love my pretty arab David. He is a sweet and honest horse, but also a high
strung and insecure one who is being taught by me, not the ideal teacher for
him I think. But I am taking things slowly and trying hard to do the right
things. We are making progress. Very slowly. My hope lies in that both David
and I are improving, in our rides together. Very slowly. As Kimberely said
to me, it often seems one step forward, two steps back. In the end I know we
will become a team, hopefully one to be reckoned with out there on the
trails!:) I am sure that when all is said and done, I will be proud of
David, and proud of what I managed to do with him, myself, with my own hands
and brain. But it is a lot of work, a lot of time, a lot of money, and I
really don't think I'd want to do it all over again.
This realization hit me full force last week. For the first time in a
year I went for a ride on my faithful old gelding Tash, whom I've owned for 20
years. (I didn't ride Tash at all last year as part of a New Year's
Resolution; , David's training progressed very slowly because I found myself
always saying, "I don't feel like messing with David today--I just want to go
for a ride, I'll take Tash"--so for 1997 I said to myself, if I have time to
ride Tash, I've time to ride David, and David needs it more. I leased Tash to
a good friend." Well, so I took my old guy out, it was garbage day, it was
windy, garbage bags flapping in the wind, some of the turned over cans rolling
about the roads. Tash just walked on by them. When I cut into the fields two
deer rose out of the long grass right in front of me and bounded away. Tash's
head came up, and he snorted a little bit, but then just plodded on. (David
would've reacted a bit more--ah, actively, than that.<g>) About midway
through the ride, as I was just letting Tash amble along, reins loose, and I
was enjoying the scenery, it hit me--gosh but it was GREAT to be able to just
sit on my horse and RELAX and enjoy the ride! I have often enjoyed the rides
I take with David. I am rarely relaxed on them, however. To say the least.
David is beauty, and fire, and spirit, and speed, and a spectacular
floating trot, a canter so smooth you could ride it all day--he is also
skittish, insecure, prone to bolting, prone to kicking, prone to bucking, and
a lot of work! Will it be worth it? I'm sure it will! Will I do it again?
Probably not. (I say probably because I always believe in leaving my options
open!<g>)
This is what I meant.
>
> << I've spent too much money to count on Mystery and I don't know if I
> would ever buy an unbroke 5 year old again. >>
>
> I feel EXACTLY the same way about my David (only he was a basically
unbroke 3
> year old). I love him, and in the end I'm sure it will all be worth it,
but
> it is a lot of time, a lot of money,--and as often as not, my blood
pressure
> still cranks up a notch or two everytime I decide to ride him. I look
forward
> to the day I can go saddle David with the same sense of security and
emotional
> comfort I have when I saddle my faithful old gelding Tash. >>
Trish & "pretty David"
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:32:40 -0500
From: Pete and Deb LaBerge <plaberge@epix.net>
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Subject: a tragic loss
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Dear ridecamp,
I have some information to pass along to you about Susan Gibson
Sutton, as well as answering some questions posted here concerning
ROC and TB.
Tragically, Susan's new husband Bobby died unexpectedly yesterday.
I have no more information than that at this time.
Although I am not involved with ROC, I did learn officially from
Susan earlier in the week that ROC was cancelled for 1998-
the reason given was that she wanted to focus on TRAIL BLAZER.
The Jan/Feb issue was mailed the last week of Dec. She decided
to take your posted suggestions about getting back on track by
going straight from Sept/Oct (which was late) to Jan/Feb and
pushing everyone's subscription forward one month.
This is explained in the new issue.
Deb LaBerge
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Message-ID: <34B7AB85.1BD1@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 12:10:33 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: FLORIDA ENDURANCE CLASSIC 7 MARCH '98
References: <34B76EDE.5FF2@citrus.infi.net>
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Oops! I forgot to mention my invaluable ride secretary in my earlier
post re: FLORIDA ENDURANCE CLASSIC...
Carolyn Tapperson, Ride Secretary
10416 S. Forestline Ave.
Inverness,Fl. 34452
(352)726-4671
e-mail:pctapp@citrus.infi.net
I will be out of town from the 14th of Jan. through the 19th...best con-
tact Carolyn for prompt service..thanks.
By the way, there is plenty of room at our base camp...up to 200 number-
ed primitive camp sites...no limit to LD entries...whoever is in by the
closing date of midnight 17th of Feb. is in(the ride). We just aren't
going to take entries after that date..liberal refund policy stated on
entry form. Plan to come!
Deena Meyer, Ride Manager
Florida Endurance Classic
carlmey@citrus.infi.net
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Next endurance prospect
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:17:00 -0800
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Well Shelly, I'd LOVE to be able to pay the big bucks for my next horse.
I don't think "willing" is the problem. "Able" is the problem. I'll
never be in a position to pay $10,000+ for a horse, unless, of course, I
give up eating, paying the mortgage, etc. Endurance is, in many ways,
a poor man's sport. I know, I know, don't anyone start with the"high
cost of equipment", how much we pay for our trucks, etc. Many of us
are pinching pennies as you can see from lots of posts from people
wanting patterns for blankets and recipes for cheap fly spray, etc.
I'd love to get rid of all the backyard broncs in my barn and replace
them with really nice show quality Arabs... Who wouldn't???
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:39:34 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: saddles & rain
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Chris Paus wrote:
>
> I finally got my Christmas present I ordered for myself. (My dear husband
> tries, but last year got me a sewing basket instead of riding gear).
>
> The present is a lovely Outback Campdrafter saddle that fits Star like a
> glove. Finally -- the 12th saddle. My problem is El Nino. It rains here or
> snows all the time. What can I do to protect the saddle. Will something
> like snow seal work?
>
> I've never worried about it before. My old appy mare once got down and
> rolled in a mud and water hole in my custom barrel saddle. I just cursed
> the mare and cleaned the saddle and it was fine. But what about riding in
> rain>>
>
> chris
Chris, maybe someone else has a trickier solution, but I've always just
kept my saddle really well oiled, and just gone ahead and ridden in the
rain and never had a problem. Granted, it's a working saddle, not a
show saddle, but nevertheless, it didn't do anything weird to it.
I think it might be that it's not the water itself that could damge the
saddle, it's in either trying to dry it out too near a heat source that
then damages the leather; or in storing a wet saddle somewhere without
enough air circulation so that mold and mildew start. My saddle usually
ends up on a rack in the living room on the opposite side from the
furnace, and the booties get stripped off so air can circulate
underneath. Ridden it in rain many times and never had a problem.
And, again, keep it really well oiled and cleaned.
Just my .02.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:58:59 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
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CMKSAGEHIL wrote:
>
> Ummm--formalin IS formaldehyde--just 1/4 strength....
>
> Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
Yup, sorry, shoulda said so in my original post. Still, nasty stuff.
Even using formalin in the zoology labs at Cal Poly, the students are
required to use gloves and wear goggles that block out the fumes. Even
as a dilute solution, it really is pretty toxic. Just seems there are
better ways to harden up feet without wiping out your own liver, eh?
Susan
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:16:55 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801101916.LAA03385@fsr.com>
Subject: Horseshoes
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From: Simone Jordon
Email: simimaus@webtv.net
What kind of Horseshoe/Pad combination works best for endurance riding? Do you pull the shoes after the event to get pads of, or do you leave them on? If you leave them on, does that effect the horny sole shedding?
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From: nevadaghostridr@webtv.net (L Eisele)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:15:24 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: thigh master
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Thankyou Kat from So. Ca. for those interested in building those
inner thigh muscles for better leg strenght in riding, I found the thigh
master is for sale at the Target stores. Atleast I found it here in the
Reno, Nev. store. Linda
Linda Eisele & Sareei and
hubby, Allen & the Iceman
& the young Lakota
nevadaghostridr@webtv.net
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 11:15:10 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Katja Halfmeyer <halfmeyer@cc.ucsf.edu>
Subject: hoof hardeners
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Hi group,
I just read one post about using formaldehyde to harden hooves. Although
this is going to be about biochemistry here, I thought I have to add my
.2cents!
Formaldehyde is extremely toxic, it is only to be used in fume-hoods and
NEVER to be inhaled!! It might even be cancerogenic, but to be 100%
positive about that fact I had to get out of the chair and get into the lab
to look it up in the safety-sheets we have.
Please, I'm not sure what the effects of formaldehyde on horse's hooves
are, but for your own safety ---- do not use it like this unless there is a
real medical indication <which I can't imagine needs pure formaldehyde?!>
Hope this helps,
Katja
UCSF
Cancer Research Institute
Molecular Genetics Group
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
Subject: 5 Speed Transmissions
You said that you had a 5-speed transmission in your 1996 Chevy diesel. I
only know that my husband has told me never to haul the trailer in overdrive
or 5th gear. He is a mechanic and has replaced many 5th gears in
transmissions where the person was hauling a trailer (sometimes that gear
has gone out in only one trip). So, to be on the safe side, don't use
overdrive/5th when hauling, because if it does break, your stuck till a
wrecker hauls you in (ick).
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
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To: ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
Message-ID: <19980111.025441.11414.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <c=US%a=_%p=CA%l=CA/TCAHQPO/00051369@trade.commerce.ca.gov>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:00:20 EST
On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 09:17:00 -0800 "Blankenship, Ann"
<ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov> writes:
>Well Shelly, I'd LOVE to be able to pay the big bucks for my next
>horse.
> I don't think "willing" is the problem. "Able" is the problem. I'll
>never be in a position to pay $10,000+ for a horse, unless, of course,
I've got less than $1,000 in Kaboot, who is by a CT champion stallion and
out of a mare who did a few rides. However, Blue Cross Blue Shield has
over $13,000 invested in his training. (One 6" metal plate installed in
my collarbone, and then removed 8 mo. later) Maybe we could get them to
supplement our purchases of safer horses. It might save them money in
the long run.
Seriously, The difference in a $1,200 horse and a $10,000 horse is
minimal in my experience. The people I have run across who have given
that kind of bucks were simply foolish and wanted to brag about what they
paid. More power to the seller. They did them a favor. Ffools are
dangerous with all that money in their pockets.
More often than not, once you get over $2500, the difference is how the
seller's farm looks, and whether the horse is body clipped.
Angie McGhee and Kaboot (who came with a clause that I owe another $100
if we ever win a ride)
>
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <321890c8.34b7eebf@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:57:18 EST
To: simimaus@WEBTV.NET, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Horseshoes, Pads
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Dear Simone and Ridecampers--
There is no "right" combination of shoes and pads for endurance riding. I
prefer no pads at all, as they tend to prevent a horse's feet from toughening
up. However, that is not always an option. There is a whole range of "foot
capability" out there, and also a whole range in varied terrain where
endurance rides are run, and one must factor in the vulnerability of the
particular horse and the terrain he will be asked to traverse. Often times
wide web shoes are sufficient protection.
There are a lot of good pads available now that absorb shock and that are made
of less slippery material than what there was when I got started at this sport
a quarter of a century ago! Other riders can probably tell you (and probably
WILL tell you) about their favorites. I just wouldn't jump in unless you and
your farrier feel they are necessary.
For the horse with sound feet who is only occasionally asked to do
particularly rocky terrain, I prefer to put Easy Boots on OVER the shoes--this
gives an air space between the sole and the bottom of the Easy Boot, too. The
boots can then be removed. This can even be done from one checkpoint to the
next at a ride if there is a segment that is more rocky than the rest of the
ride. This way the foot is free to "breathe" the majority of the time and one
avoids the drawbacks of being always padded. If one is competing a lot, it is
not practical to remove pads after a ride (maybe you are doing three rides on
one shoeing!) whereas the Easy Boots can go on and come off as often as
needed.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: OOOOOPS!
Message-ID: <19980111.034449.11414.2.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:50:53 EST
Hey, I had no intention of sending that "What's his value" post. I
thought I deleted it. Re-read it, sounded like a jerk. Didn't even
proof it. Just trash it! Opted for the short version and accidentally
sent both. Now the breeders will really hate me.
Rides2far (if you don't know who that was, I'm not telling you)
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From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: thigh master
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:58:12 -0800 (PST)
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> Thankyou Kat from So. Ca. for those interested in building those
> inner thigh muscles for better leg strenght in riding,
Yeah, *thanks* Kat - I printed the exercises off at work and stood
at my computer doing them while doing a tedious open-20-files-and-
print-them-and-close-them-exercise. Trouble is, someone came in to
my office and caught me at it and gave me a *very* funny look...
<grin>
It also seemed to pull something in my back (that same thing
that I seem to have pulled twisting to put my new saddle in the
back of my new truck.). I need to be more careful and work up
to it slowly.
Ha. Life is hard. <g>
> I found the thigh
> master is for sale at the Target stores. Atleast I found it here in the
> Reno, Nev. store. Linda
What is a "thigh master"? I belong to a gym - they must have
something like one there. Can you tell me what it does, so I
can go and look for it?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 14:59:52 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Endurance List <ridecamp@endurance.net>
cc: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: saddles & rain
In-Reply-To: <34B7C066.1796@worldnet.att.net>
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On Sat, 10 Jan 1998, Susan Evans Garlinghouse wrote:
> Chris, maybe someone else has a trickier solution, but I've always just
> kept my saddle really well oiled, and just gone ahead and ridden in the
> rain and never had a problem. Granted, it's a working saddle, not a
> show saddle, but nevertheless, it didn't do anything weird to it.
...
> And, again, keep it really well oiled and cleaned.
Assuming that this is a smooth leather saddle (not suede) cleaned and well
oiled work just fine; however, a couple of additional tips:
After going out in the rain, if the saddle is not completely soaked (i.e.
it has rain drops on it rather than being totally wet), clean it BEFORE it
dries. Any good saddle soap will work, but just water will also work.
Otherwise, you could end up with a spotted saddle :).
And then oil it BEFORE it dries (both neatsfoot oil and mink oil work
nicely, but don't overdo it on the neatsfoot oil around the stitching).
Also, Whitman makes a product call Lederpflegecreme which containes both
leather conditioners and beeswax. The beeswax serves very well as a
"waterproofer." This stuff saw my boots through a whole Russian winter.
A quick wipe down after every day kept them waterproof and looking like
new.
For those of you who live in areas where there is high humidity and mold
(not particularly common here in Southern California), the product of my
choice (although not designed for this) is Corona ointment. It is, in
essence lanolin (what my saddler calls "saddle food") and an antiseptic,
which kills mold, fungus, bacteria, etc. Use sparingly.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
p.s. Good leather will last forever if you clean and oil it regularly,
and BTW the sweat on the underside will do more damage than rain on the
top side. If the saddle has leather panels, then washing the sweat off
the underside is far more important than a little exposure to rain.
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <11e1ea6.34b81257@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:29:10 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: WARNER SPRINGS
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The thing got rained out! I can tlel you though that I never had such a greta
time at a rainout! Would have stayed longer but I thought about my horses is
the mud whilst I soaked in teh hot springs. Well, Terry is a class act and so
are her rides. Anyway, we will come back next year Terry - I want to meet
those COWS!
sandy
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:32:38 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801110032.QAA19041@fsr.com>
Subject: Posting a message
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Simone Jordon
Email: simimaus@webtv.net
Hello,
I joined this list a few days ago. Everytime I'm posting a message it shows up as a guest message. Is there any other way of posting a message?
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: grs@theneteffect.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dry Feet--Ariat review
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:33:06 PST
Hi Glenda,
>Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 10:11:17 -0600 (CST)
>From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
>To: Linda Van Ceylon <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
>Subject: Re: Dry Feet--Ariat review
>
>> The Extremes really suck.
>
>I absolutely LOVE to hear people say what they really think!!>
I do too! Now, in my middle aged years, I have enough callous on my
rear to handle the flames that follow such statements.
>>
>> MNTBHO
>
>What does this mean? That's a new one on me and I guess my brain is
>slushy this morning. :)
"My, never to be humble opinion"
>
>I am in search of the perfect boot <g>, wondered whether you have any
>recommendations. My problem is finding something sufficiently wide in
the
>toe (I've heard the Ariat boots tend to run narrow)>
This is true, according to the clerk here at Miller Stockman.
with good ankle
>support (a tall lace-up), steel shank, and thick cushy sole in case I
have
>to hoof it myself. Do you have a favorite boot you can recommend?>
No, Not currently. It was the Ariat "Winter" until they wore out &
couldn't be replaced. But, I have normal to narrow feet. I'm tempted
to buy another brand and get them just a little big. Then buy the Ariat
foot-beds and put in them. I'm really kind of devastated that Ariat
took perfection and screwed it up.
After
>3 strikes from the tack catalogs, I'm about to give up on all the
riding
>boots and go to the sporting goods store to check out hiking boots.
>
>Glenda
>
I'm sure there are some really good custom boot makers out there. But,
I'll be darned if I can afford them. If I hear of anything, Glenda,
I'll surely let you know.
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:35:36 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801110035.QAA19677@fsr.com>
Subject: portable stalls
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Cathy Underwood
Email: CatUnderwd@aol.com
I am hoping to do a couple of distance rides this year, but the mare
I will be taking does not tie!!! She is fine in a stall and never challenges the electric fence (hasn't been turned on in a couple of years). I would appreciate any input you may have on portable stalls. I was wondering if anyone has had experience with the "safety pen" by Custom Iron Workers. I am not a good sleeper anyway and sure don't want any avoidable problems in the middle of the night:>}
You may respond to my privately at CatUnderwd@aol.com.
Thanks!
Cathy
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net, ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 16:41:34 PST
>Well Shelly, I'd LOVE to be able to pay the big bucks for my next
horse.
> I don't think "willing" is the problem. "Able" is the problem. I'll
>never be in a position to pay $10,000+ for a horse, unless, of course,
I
>give up eating, paying the mortgage, etc. Endurance is, in many ways,
>a poor man's sport.>
Here, here!!
I know, I know, don't anyone start with the"high
>cost of equipment", how much we pay for our trucks, etc. Many of us
>are pinching pennies as you can see from lots of posts from people
>wanting patterns for blankets and recipes for cheap fly spray, etc.
>
I second that.
>I'd love to get rid of all the backyard broncs in my barn and replace
>them with really nice show quality Arabs... Who wouldn't???>
Given, what I've seen of the current "show quality" Arabs, no thanks.
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
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From: PEGGASIS <PEGGASIS@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:57:52 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Warner Sprgs/dampened spirits
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Thanks Terry for the Great Hospitality....Claire and I were really looking
forward to a nice ride. We got back to Las Vegas about 4:00 p.m. Looks like it
had rained here also........
It was great getting to visit with the riders I usually see at our rides. Some
other LVDR members were there also. I guess we could blame El Nino for the bad
luck of having about 14 hours of on/off showers which prevented the ride from
starting.
When Terry came by at 4:30 a.m. to say the ride was cancelled, I was relieved
she had made such a brave decision for all of us that probably would have
ridden. She's
a very thoughtful ride manager and we will return next year.
The thick mud getting out of camp looked worse than it was, everyone would "
Cheer" each time someone made it through without getting stuck.... Jeff
Briscoe would stop traffic so everyone could get out safely.
Well Terry, I know why you wanted us to bring our swim-suits <g>. We had a
great time, we never made it to the Hot Springs, the husbands wanted to get
going. For sure, next time..
Hope everyone had a safe trip home and we'll see ya'll at another ride.
Peggie Norton
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 19:28:25 -0600
To: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training (long)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Trish,
I have to be a buttinski here again. In Kansas, we have much the same
situation you described -- gravel roads, a county that used to be farms,
but is now filled with homes and 3 acre lots, so there are kids, dogs,
cars, 4-wheel ATVs, dirt bikes, spinning lawn ornaments, etc.
We also have lots of bridges that have very scary concrete end walls (those
things eat horses, you know).
I have found that the John Lyons methods DO WORK if you udnerstand them and
get the basics down first.
The first principle - you don't get hurt and the horse doesn't get hurt.
The second - the horse is calmer after the lesson than before.
The third - work aorund the horse's comfort zone. Once I learned this,
teaching star to deal with all the monsters out there was easier.
When I first got him, he really hesitated at those scary bridges and would
only cross them if his brave friend Emma went over them first. Garbage
cans, kids on bikes and even worse -- we have squeaky oil wells here, were
cause for a huge sideways, straightlegged hop, that more than once unseated
me.
Star had to learn that it is ok to spook, but we spook in place. And I had
to learn the comfort zone rule. When you approach something scary - let the
horse tell you where his comfort zone is. When he gets to where he stops or
wants to turn around or bolt, STOP. Stand there looking at the scary thing.
It may take 5 minutes, it may take 20 minutes. when he is ready to deal
with it, he will put his head down and start to step forward. If he takes 1
step forward, that is cause for praise. At this point you can gently urge
him on past the scary thing. It works great at creek and stream crossings too.
This teaches the horse that you won't ask him to do anything that will get
him hurt. It teaches him confidence in your judgement.
On a smaller scale, work onthis at home. Use cavaletti poles to teach the
horse to go over stuff. put hay bales around the yard and weave him in and
out of them.
I know what you mean. My old boy Cisco is like your Tash. I can leave him
unridden for months or even a year and get on his back and it is like he
was ridden yesterday. It is very comfortable but it also allowed me to
become a lazy rider. Star definitely woke me up and made me call on some
rusty skills. But I am a much better rider a year later adn he is a much
better horse. People who knew him when I first got him marvel at how he
does now.
One of the best Lyons' things I've done with Star is the "giving to the
bit" exercises. I do these when it is to yuicchhy to go for a long ride, or
when I'm on call (reporters have pager duty sometimes and have to be close
to a car and camera). We workon these exercises at home, and sometimes I
throw them in on a trail ride. They have taught him to be responsive to my
commands and have taught me to be precise in my messages on the reins.
I'll get off my soapbox now. You are very right in that it is a LOT of work
to train a horse. I wouldn't have taken on a 3 year old. Star is 10, but
was left alone and unridden for at least a year. At least he had a good
foundation. we just had to find it.
It is hard to relax when you are unsure of your horse and that communicates
from you back to the horse. When you feel yourself tensing up, TAKE A DEEP
BREATH, sing, whistle, laugh, talk to the horse, anything that makes you
breathe!
GOOD LUCK.
chris paus & the Starman who was a very good boy in the woods today AND
EVEN stood perfectly still when silly mom stepped out of the saddle which
was too loose and ended up tripping backwards over a log. There I was with
my left foot still int he stirrup and the rest of me ass over teakettle.
Star just stood there waiting for me to get the whole situation put right
again. good boy!
At 11:25 AM 1/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-09 23:27:46 EST, you write:
>
><< In past few yrs, I have bought 2 'unbroken' but rather untrained older
> horses, both over 5. I will do it again. They were not abused too young
> by being overridden too young. The white stallions that do the spanish
> riding school events are not brought in for training until they are 4.
> Mary Ann,TX>>
>
>Dear Mary, I am glad there are people like you out there who are willing and
>able to train horses for those of us who don't want to do it. What I meant
>was this: when I bought David I thought, #1. It would be "fun" to bring up a
>"baby" all by myself, clean slate, don't have to fix someone else's mistakes
>or abuse etc. etc. What I failed to take in to consideration ( and was not
>entirely aware of myself ) was that I really just want to ride a good horse,
>you know? I want to be able to go out to my barn, saddle my horse, and go
for
>a ride assured I can do so in a reasonable degreee of safety, comfort, and
>peace. I don't want to have to worry about what the horse is going to do
when
>I try to pass the garbage truck on the road ahead, or if he is going to
have a
>problem with that dog that is running around barking, or if he is going to
try
>to jump that little stream rather than cross it--etc. etc. etc.
> I know these are all problems that can be dealt with through training. I
>have found, after the fact, that this training involves a lot more work and
>time than I first imagined. No horse is perfect, and all have their little
>quirks. I don't mind this. But just started, hyper 3 yr olds have lots and
>lots of little quirks!!! Lots. Lots and lots. Too many.
> #2. Maybe out on the Colorado plains, with laid back stock horses,
JLyons
>methods work great, but on Michigan gravel roads, complete with traffic,
>garbage bags, ditches to either side of the road, children who come running
>out to "pet the horsies" when they see them, clinging to balloons, small
dogs,
>and other assorted toys as they do so, and on a high strung, 3 year old, just
>started arab, JLyons methods don't work so good. I say this from experience.
>Trust me.
> #3. In my mind, I always have more free time than in real life I
>actually do have. Training a horse takes a LOT of free time.
> #4. Riding horses for 20 years does NOT qualify one to train them,
>contrary to my original belief.
> #5. Taking on the training of a young horse without really knowing what
>you have gotton yourself in to is a good way to get hurt. I know this from
>experience, now.
> #6. Trainers, books, videos and clinics purchased to help one once one
>realizes they are in over their head cost a lot of money. My husband, at one
>point, said, "Sheesh Trish, why didn't you just go out and buy a $10,000.
>horse?" I smiled and said, "Don't worry dear, by the time I'm done with
David
>I'll probably have one!"
> #7. These things are, however, cheaper than emergency room visits.
>
>I love my pretty arab David. He is a sweet and honest horse, but also a high
>strung and insecure one who is being taught by me, not the ideal teacher for
>him I think. But I am taking things slowly and trying hard to do the right
>things. We are making progress. Very slowly. My hope lies in that both David
>and I are improving, in our rides together. Very slowly. As Kimberely said
>to me, it often seems one step forward, two steps back. In the end I know we
>will become a team, hopefully one to be reckoned with out there on the
>trails!:) I am sure that when all is said and done, I will be proud of
>David, and proud of what I managed to do with him, myself, with my own hands
>and brain. But it is a lot of work, a lot of time, a lot of money, and I
>really don't think I'd want to do it all over again.
> This realization hit me full force last week. For the first time in a
>year I went for a ride on my faithful old gelding Tash, whom I've owned
for 20
>years. (I didn't ride Tash at all last year as part of a New Year's
>Resolution; , David's training progressed very slowly because I found myself
>always saying, "I don't feel like messing with David today--I just want to go
>for a ride, I'll take Tash"--so for 1997 I said to myself, if I have time to
>ride Tash, I've time to ride David, and David needs it more. I leased
Tash to
>a good friend." Well, so I took my old guy out, it was garbage day, it was
>windy, garbage bags flapping in the wind, some of the turned over cans
rolling
>about the roads. Tash just walked on by them. When I cut into the fields
two
>deer rose out of the long grass right in front of me and bounded away.
Tash's
>head came up, and he snorted a little bit, but then just plodded on. (David
>would've reacted a bit more--ah, actively, than that.<g>) About midway
>through the ride, as I was just letting Tash amble along, reins loose, and I
>was enjoying the scenery, it hit me--gosh but it was GREAT to be able to just
>sit on my horse and RELAX and enjoy the ride! I have often enjoyed the rides
>I take with David. I am rarely relaxed on them, however. To say the least.
> David is beauty, and fire, and spirit, and speed, and a spectacular
>floating trot, a canter so smooth you could ride it all day--he is also
>skittish, insecure, prone to bolting, prone to kicking, prone to bucking, and
>a lot of work! Will it be worth it? I'm sure it will! Will I do it again?
>Probably not. (I say probably because I always believe in leaving my options
>open!<g>)
> This is what I meant.
> >
> > << I've spent too much money to count on Mystery and I don't know if I
> > would ever buy an unbroke 5 year old again. >>
> >
> > I feel EXACTLY the same way about my David (only he was a basically
> unbroke 3
> > year old). I love him, and in the end I'm sure it will all be worth it,
> but
> > it is a lot of time, a lot of money,--and as often as not, my blood
> pressure
> > still cranks up a notch or two everytime I decide to ride him. I look
> forward
> > to the day I can go saddle David with the same sense of security and
> emotional
> > comfort I have when I saddle my faithful old gelding Tash. >>
>
>Trish & "pretty David"
>
>
>
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Pony prices and training
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 18:36:05 -0700
Message-ID: <01bd1e31$48813520$858287cf@willard>
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I thought I was the only one that had rides around the neighborhood like =
yours. We live out by several dairy farms and my guy thinks that every =
cow he sees is going to run up and kill him. We also have a lot of fun =
on our rides but haven't had a RELAXING ride yet. I am just hoping that =
with patience and time(and lots of circling) that eventuallly we will be =
able to focus his energy in a positive way.
Carrie & Buddy
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I thought I was the only one that =
had rides=20
around the neighborhood like yours. We live out by several dairy =
farms and=20
my guy thinks that every cow he sees is going to run up and kill =
him. We=20
also have a lot of fun on our rides but haven't had a RELAXING ride yet. =
I am=20
just hoping that with patience and time(and lots of circling) that =
eventuallly=20
we will be able to focus his energy in a positive way.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Carrie & =
Buddy</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From: karel@prodigy.com (MRS KAREL E WAUGH)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:36:52, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: CTR Convention
Attention All Northern Calif. Riders: Since the AERC convention is
not in the west this year, some of you may suffer withdrawal pains by
not getting your Feb. dose of horsy information. The National Conv
for NATRC is being held in Santa Rosa on Feb 20 & 21. Our keynote
speaker on Sat. is Dr. Doug Butler who started as a farrier, went on
for a PHD and wrote the book that most shoeing schools use as a
textbook. Dr. Nancy Elliot will also speak. If you're interested
you can email me privately and I'll send you the registration info.
Karel
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 17:59:41 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801110159.RAA26304@fsr.com>
Subject: Saddles & Alum. trailers
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Beth
Email: jeb@sedona.net
I had posted a message asking for your experiences/suggestions regarding saddles and alum. trailers and that the responses be sent to my e mail.
I want to report that there were over 50 responses and thank you all again. Some of the folks wanted to know what I decided.
While there has been no real action yet--the two saddles which come closest in theory to being what I want are Saare and Syngerist. I went to see the Syngerist today and will be attending a Saare saddle fitting clinic on 2/15.
The alum. trailers I am most interested in are Silverado, 4-Star & Alum-Line. However, one ride-camper suggested I consider the all "stainess steel" trailer made by Tycoon. I was/am intrigued enough that I am in the process of obtaining more info.from them. Thank you one and all for your help!
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 20:14:35 -0600
To: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training
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Sometimes circling can get the horse more worked up. If it doesn't seem
to be working, try "TIME OUT". When Star would misbehave, with him it was
always by gates. He wanted to spin an rush through them. I would make him
stop and stand. He got so he could tell as soon as I picked up the reins,
he would put himself in time out and plant his feet! He'd stick his nose
in the air and pout like a naughty little boy. My friend leslie almost
fell off her horse from laughing at Star one day when he did this.
Time out gives the horse time to calm down and you time to breath, shrug
your shoulders and relax. It also serves a similar purpose to circles, in
that the horse knows he won't get to go forward or anywhere until he
settles down. If he won't stand still, do the circles, until he learns
that STAND means to plant your feet and don't move until I say so.
chris paus & star
At 06:36 PM 1/10/98 -0700, Craig W. Hadley wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt><smaller>I thought I was the only one that had rides around the
neighborhood like yours. We live out by several dairy farms and my guy
thinks that every cow he sees is going to run up and kill him. We also
have a lot of fun on our rides but haven't had a RELAXING ride yet. I am
just hoping that with patience and time(and lots of circling) that
eventuallly we will be able to focus his energy in a positive way.
Carrie & Buddy
</smaller>
</excerpt><<<<<<<<
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From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Stirrup-straight-ugh!
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Those things are awful-and unneccesary. I am a person who is
fanatical and fussy about all my gear,but especially so re saddle girth
rigging and stirrups/stirrup leathers. The answer to a perfect "hang" is
to simply put a half twist in the leather on the front side of the
stirrup whilst in the correct hang position.. In other words,your leather
is now "Upside down" as it enters the buckle. This hang'em straight. Here
are two further refinements I wouldn't be without:First take the entire
aforementioned set-up and turn the entire apparatus UPSIDE DOWN-your
buckle is now at your Foot,in front of your stirrup,where it can create
no bulk,lumps,or rubbing,and the slack of your strap is hanging downward
-where it can be tucked into your oversized hooded stirrup,another safety
and convenience I wouldn't be without. Second refinement: The entire
affair is slid through a 15 inch tunnel-back fender,from Tucker's in
Memphis,which you of course will not hesitate to modify by
trimming/chamfering any offending rubbing spots with a razor blade,and by
riveting the front face of the fender to the "topmost" of the two
straps.Phew!One picture really would be worth 1K words here! One thing I
like about you E folks is your unwillingness to live with a saddle that
s___ks.BUT:I suggest sometimes doing more modifying than buying.My
beloved Buena Vista was junk until I cut off the original rigging and
fabricated a forward,in-flap rigging,etc,etc."But they MADE it this
way!",folks will say,on the assumption that "they" knew what they were
doing,and disregarding the fact that to this day every maker's rigs are
different. It's an endless attempt to quantify the un-quantifiable,so get
out your tools-if thy billet strap offend thee,pluck it out.Rivets are
easier than sewing,by the way. Whilst flaming here,I believe Len Brown
of Ortho-Flex has advanced the design history of the saddle by a quantum
leap,and I say this as a person who does not like Ortho-Flex saddles (too
high,due to the panel system.)Nonetheless,the definitive identification
of the problem of saddle-horse dynamics has now been
made.Additionally,their recognition of rigging ,girthing,and stirrup
problems has been educational for all students of the saddle.I know there
have been some service and warranty problems,but that's a different
subject. 'Nuff said.
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stirrup-straight-ugh!
Message-ID: <19980111.081627.4326.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 22:22:51 EST
On Sat, 10 Jan 1998 21:20:38 -0800 "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
writes:
>easier than sewing,by the way. Whilst flaming here,I believe
>Len Brown
>of Ortho-Flex has advanced the design history of the saddle by a
>quantum
>leap,and I say this as a person who does not like Ortho-Flex saddles
>(too
>high,due to the panel system.)Nonetheless,the definitive
>identification
>of the problem of saddle-horse dynamics has now been
>made.Additionally,their recognition of rigging ,girthing,and stirrup
>problems has been educational for all students of the saddle.I know
>there
>have been some service and warranty problems,but that's a different
>subject. 'Nuff said.
>
Bravo Ray,
I ride an Ortho-Fles Express.
Not sure the panel system is worth a flip, but I do love the way that
saddle is put together.
I ride with my Ortho Flex biothane leathers inside out, and I believe
upside down. This leaves the uneven side towards my legand the flat side
against my saddle. Then I situate the buckel just below my knee. Sounds
horrible doesn't it? It's perfect. I never feel it or know it is there.
I am very short (5') Maybe that has something to do with why I cannot
stand the buckel near my ankle. There's just not that much leather to
turn.
I live 5 miles fromChattanooga, where the Big Horn endurance saddles,
and the similar inexpensive American Saddlery versions are made. I have
tried to talk to those guys about moving the stirrups back and not
putting 3" leathers on there.. Forget it. They sell those things faster
than they can make them. Germany just gobbles them up. I asked them,
why do you have an Arabian saddle, but then you put "full Quarter Horse
Bars" on you endurance model. They don't know, but they won't change.
By the way, they did let me borrow some trees to try on a bunch of
different horses. The tree that they said was their Arabian tree would
have fit a draft horse. The tree that supposedly had the Quarter Horse
bars fit the Arabs nicely. ( They were medium build, with a level back)
When placed on a stocky Appaloosa, it was too narrow in the cantle area.
I think Len has taught us, if it don't work CHANGE IT!
Right now I've got a fellow who works at American Saddlery who may make
me an endurance pony saddle. It will have a 13" western seat, no horn,
english style flaps on the side and english style stirrups. I believe
I'll get dressage rigging. I'll let ya know how it turns out.
Angie McGhee, (who is scared to turn her 11 year old daughter and her
welsh pony loose with her Ortho-Flex. "But Mom, I love it, couldn't you
get YOU another saddle?"
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
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Date: Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:45:19 EST
To: courtney28@Hotmail.Com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Bob Marshall Sports Saddle
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I have been using a Sport saddle for a few years and absolutley love it. I
recently did a four day ride (Death Valley) with it. The horse had a little
hair rubbed in the loin area after 205 miles, but no sore back or other
problems. I can really feel the horse under me and I think the horse can
really feel me. Riding skills are particularly important with this saddle.
Without a tree it can be unforgiving of bouncing, etc. I hope you enjoy your
new saddle.
Debby
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <86a06e83.34b85922@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:31:13 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training (long)
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I have to second what Chris Paus said about John Lyons training--in a
nutshell, all John Lyons training is is learning to see how the horse
perceives things and use that perception to further your goal in getting him
to do what you want him to do. This is basic to all facets of horse training,
whether you call it the John Lyons method or not. So much of riding a horse
in spooky situations (we call them "horse gitters") is anticipating how he
will see those things and giving him the time and space to work them out.
Well said, Chris.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:31:06 -0500
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: hoof hardeners and Yucca
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I've tried just about everything on my horse's feet to harden them up:
Venice Turpentine, tincture iodine, a formaldehyde solution (which I
always managed to get on me:-(, even wrapped her hooves in pampers and
duct tape during a particularly rainy week (didn't work, very messy to
remove). The best thing I've found is something called Pad Heel. Made
by a friend of mine with Anico Vet Products; it doesn't have all those
nasty chemicals in it. If anyone is interested, I'll find out her 1-800
number and post it.
She also sells a Yucca product for arthritis. Anyone have any
experience with using Yucca?
Karen
Ormond Beach
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From: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 00:31:44 -0500
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From: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com
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To: MS LOUISE D BURTON <XXDU78A@prodigy.com>
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Louise,
I agree that using caution is wise when it comes to injuries. However,
the ride vet said my mare was just a little sore from riding in the mud-
nothing too serious. She has had a month off and my home vet says she
is fine to go back to work slowly. So that's what I'll do. Hope your
horse is feeling better soon also.
Karen
Ormond Beach
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From: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com
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Louise,
I agree that using caution is wise when it comes to injuries. However,
the ride vet said my mare was just a little sore from riding in the mud-
nothing too serious. She has had a month off and my home vet says she
is fine to go back to work slowly. So that's what I'll do. Hope your
horse is feeling better soon also.
Karen
Ormond Beach
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <302fbe9d.34b8615d@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 01:06:19 EST
To: paus@micoks.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training (long)
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In a message dated 98-01-10 20:33:19 EST, you write:
<< I have to be a buttinski here again. In Kansas, we have much the same
situation you described -- gravel roads, a county that used to be farms,
but is now filled with homes and 3 acre lots, so there are kids, dogs,
cars, 4-wheel ATVs, dirt bikes, spinning lawn ornaments, etc.>>
Dear Chris, I do not consider anyone sending me training advice to be "a
buttinski!"
<<We also have lots of bridges that have very scary concrete end walls (those
things eat horses, you know).>>
Yea, we've got those too. I can gallop Tash over these bridges. David is
sure those walls are out to get him! LOL!
<<I have found that the John Lyons methods DO WORK if you udnerstand them and
get the basics down first.
The first principle - you don't get hurt and the horse doesn't get hurt.
The second - the horse is calmer after the lesson than before.
The third - work aorund the horse's comfort zone. Once I learned this,
teaching star to deal with all the monsters out there was easier.>>
I agree with these principles and do try to remember them when I am out riding
(though sometimes it is hard, if you know what I mean--) but I always try, and
succeed more often than not.
<<Star had to learn that it is ok to spook, but we spook in place.>>
I have had no luck with JLyons "spook in place" training, at least as
described in his book and magazines. We spent most of last summer working on
this and others.
<<And I had
to learn the comfort zone rule. When you approach something scary - let the
horse tell you where his comfort zone is. When he gets to where he stops or
wants to turn around or bolt, STOP. Stand there looking at the scary thing.
It may take 5 minutes, it may take 20 minutes. when he is ready to deal
with it, he will put his head down and start to step forward. If he takes 1
step forward, that is cause for praise. At this point you can gently urge
him on past the scary thing. It works great at creek and stream crossings
too.>>
If this is the "spook in place" then it does work--but it is very slow going,
with David. Dressage, getting David "between my hands and my legs" seems to
work much better, and David and I have improved much faster using classical
French dressage than we ever did with Lyons stuff.
<<Now,
This teaches the horse that you won't ask him to do anything that will get
him hurt. It teaches him confidence in your judgement.>>
I think that David is sure I am a moron. He has very little confidence in my
judgement yet! But as he is much better now, than he was last spring, that
is, when I say "cross the stream" now he will say, "hmmm, well, maybe, I'm not
gonna like it, I think I might jump it rather than cross, but, oh, ok, well go
to the other side, if you want to, but I think you are wrong in wanting
too--"---whereas last spring David would say, "Whoa!!! No WAY am I gonna cross
that thing! I'm outa here! Bye!"
<<On a smaller scale, work onthis at home. Use cavaletti poles to teach the
horse to go over stuff. put hay bales around the yard and weave him in and
out of them.>>
I have been doing this. It helps. The odd thing is, in the backyard at home,
or in the paddock, I can get David to walk over sheets of plastic, hollow
sounding sheets of plywood, in and out of tires--no problem. He does this with
ears pricked, and at attention, but calmly and without fuss. Then I take him
out on the road or trails, and he freaks because there is a bundle of branches
by the side of the road, or an oilstain on the gravel!!! Go figure.
<< I know what you mean. My old boy Cisco is like your Tash. I can leave him
unridden for months or even a year and get on his back and it is like he
was ridden yesterday. It is very comfortable but it also allowed me to
become a lazy rider. Star definitely woke me up and made me call on some
rusty skills.>>
Exactly!!! I empathize!
<<But I am a much better rider a year later adn he is a much
better horse.>>
I am definately and swiftly becoming a better rider. David is very slowly
becoming a better horse. So who is the better teacher here?<g>
<<One of the best Lyons' things I've done with Star is the "giving to the
bit" exercises. I do these when it is to yuicchhy to go for a long ride, or
when I'm on call (reporters have pager duty sometimes and have to be close
to a car and camera). We workon these exercises at home, and sometimes I
throw them in on a trail ride. They have taught him to be responsive to my
commands and have taught me to be precise in my messages on the reins.>>
Giving to the bit excercises did not do much for either David or I. He always
was very responsive to bit pressure, and picked up on what this lesson was
about right away--and promptly became so bored with it (and me) he began doing
all kinds of "interesting" things to make the lesson more entertaining. These
lessons also bored me to tears. My dressage instructor doesnt think much of
them either. She says that while stock type horses seem to do well with this
excercise, arabs do much better being actively ridden with the seat and legs,
which JLyons seems to neglect. She says Lyons excercises bring the bit to the
horse, rather than the other way around (ask the horse to come to the bit).
All I can say is that once I started riding David using my seat and legs much
more actively, and keeping "soft tension" on the reins, rather than Lyons "no
tension"--David's behavior immediatly took a turn for the better, as did my
confidence. David himself even seemed relieved--it was like he had been
waiting for me to actively ask him to do things. I am not saying Lyons method
is bad, I'm sure it is the way to go for many horses. It doesnt seem to have
been for David.
<< I'll get off my soapbox now. You are very right in that it is a LOT of work
to train a horse. I wouldn't have taken on a 3 year old. Star is 10, but
was left alone and unridden for at least a year. At least he had a good
foundation. we just had to find it.>>
When things are "clicking" it is the most wonderful feeling in the world!!!
Problem is, much of the time I just want to go ride an already trained
horse!--Next time, I think I let someone else do all this work! (my husband
just walked by the computer, and chuckled, "yea, right . . . next time you're
probably gonna want to start with a foal!"<g>)
<<It is hard to relax when you are unsure of your horse and that communicates
from you back to the horse. When you feel yourself tensing up, TAKE A DEEP
BREATH, sing, whistle, laugh, talk to the horse, anything that makes you
breathe!>>
Chris, I have tried this, and I think my singing is what is making David buck!
<g>
Seriously though, you are right, and I do often have to remind myself to just
sit back and RELAX--three deep slow breathes help! When we read it in books
or watch the proffessionals do it, it all looks so EASY! But out on the road,
with a horse under you that you KNOW is thinking seriously of bolting because
he just doesn't like the look of that mean old garbage truck up ahead--it
ain't as easy as it looks!
<< GOOD LUCK. >>
Thanks, and thanks for the advice! When David and I blow by you at the finish
of the Tevis some day you are going to regret sending it!<VBG>!
Trish & "pretty David"
g at the scary thing.
It may take 5 minutes, it may take 20 minutes. when he is ready to deal
with it, he will put his head down and start to step forward. If he takes 1
step forward, that is cause for praise. At this point you can gently urge
him on past the scary thing. It works great at creek and stream crossings
too.5466 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001623 06456067313 0013122 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.170]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA09227 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 10 Jan 1998 23:03:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Tivers <Tivers@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7a38e146.34b86e4c@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:01:32 EST
To: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: hoof hardeners and Yucca
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In a message dated 98-01-11 01:50:47 EST, mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com writes:
<< She also sells a Yucca product for arthritis. Anyone have any
experience with using Yucca?
Karen
Ormond Beach >>
Yucca has anti-inflammatory properties and along with glucosamine and
chondroitin sulfate, papain, and a couple other lesser ingredients, makes for
a strong anti-arthritic/joint therapy.
ti
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From: CATUNDERWD <CATUNDERWD@aol.com>
Message-ID: <28f7bb8c.34b8c85f@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:25:50 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Portable Stalls
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To tie or not to tie -- that was not the question:~)) For the sake of brevity
I said my horse would not tie. To clarify - this horse has been hauled to
rodeos, barrel races, ropings (have you figured out she's a QH) and has many a
trail mile on her. She stands peacefully tied to the trailer munching on hay
for hours at a time 99.99% of the time. However, twice to be exact, she has
decided she wanted to be somewhere else (not spooked) and sat down and broke
the snap on the lead rope. Since the horse I wanted to use for distance
riding (my "perfect" horse) was struck by lightning, I'm not big on playing
the odds (and I really do like to sleep at night). Anyway, I appreciate
all the good information I've received on tying a horse, but was really
looking for input on the different portable stalls on the market or any
homemade ideas that work.
Thanks!
Cathy
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <79f254bf.34b8cdb8@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:48:39 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: hoof hardeners and Yucca
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Yucca is great stuff, but would like to remind you all that since it contains
salicylates (relatives of aspirin), it WILL give you a positive drug test--so
don't use it before and during competition!
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: Naztari <Naztari@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b0681af.34b8cf19@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:54:32 EST
To: willard@eagleut.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training
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Because of horse transportation problems, I am having to ride my horse on
roads also. He can be pretty spooky but seems to trust me when it comes to
individual monsters. My problem is that when we get to 2 monsters I have a
problem. He is not afraid of alot of things that he should have more respect
for. Cars and dogs don't bother him. Yesterday on our ride we had 2 situations
that got a little hairy in my mind. First, a backhoe was coming up the road
toward us. I moved him to the opposite side of the road. He started getting
antsy because of this large, funny looking, noisy machine. Then on our side of
the road came a pit bull. I knew the backhoe wasn't going to get us but wasn't
so sure about the pit bull. He looked serious as we started to violate his
territory. Well, Sawyer could care less about any barking and growling dog, so
he continued to move further into the dogs territory. Yuk. We ended up without
attack from either monster but it sure did make me nervous. The other thing
that Sawyer does is he'll take a wide sweep around some inanimate monsters.
Even if that means getting in the way of cars (which he could care less
about). That happened as we were coming off a bridge and the end railing had
all his attention and a car coming towards the bridge gave him no concern
whatsoever and he moved out into the middle of the road and no amount of
prodding would get him back towards the rail. There was no real danger as the
car had slowed down enough to stop if necessary but it is still not the place
to be. Anyway, we have work to do.
Ed and Sawyer who wishes we had the truck and trailer back to get outta these
scary places.
urance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 05:56:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Naztari <Naztari@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b0681af.34b8cf19@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:54:32 EST
To: willard@eagleut.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:43:53 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: More saddle fanaticism
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Another,perhaps most important adjustment,which historically has
almost never been offered,is fore and aft stirrup adjustment. I'm glad to
see you E-folks were able to get responsefrom Sport Saddle folks there.
It's an easy modification to do to any saddle-mainly you just get in
there and rig as neccesary,making sure your results are not unsafe.Why
all saddles are not built with adjustability there is beyond me.Maybe I'm
just too dumb to understand that I'm not developing the proper "seat" in
my riding style or some-such nonsense. This business of stirrup fore&aft
adjustability raises the issue of so- called seat length.The inability of
saddle manufacturer's to make sense of this concept to to themselves or
the rider makes it quite obvious that they are pretty damn dense.THE ONLY
DIMENSION WHICH CAN CORRECTLY BE TERMED "SEAT LENGTH" IS THE DISTANCE
FROM THE CENTER-LINE OF THE STIRRUP LEATHERS TO SOME VAGUE SPOT MIDWAY UP
THE UPWARD RISE INTO THE CANTLE.As vague as that dimension neccesarily
is,it tells us clearly the "front to back" seat length dimensions,which
fail to take stirrup hanger position into account,and which do include
such irrelavant elements as the forward "reach" of the fork,are
simply gibberish.Thus we must"buy 'em & try 'em",and not be afraid to
modify 'em here and there.We're Americans,after all,and look at the
motersports people-every machine is modified,usually before being put
into service.
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:18:53 -0600
To: Naztari <Naztari@aol.com>, willard@eagleut.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training
In-Reply-To: <b0681af.34b8cf19@aol.com>
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Horse monsters on the road can be scary. One day Star got me when we were
attempting our first 10 mile ride (we've come a long way since then) all on
the road. He had been an angel for about 6 miles, then we rode past an oil
well that was squeaking. He'd seen other oil wells, but not heard them. He
was really eyballing that, when at the same time, my dogs jumped up out of
a roadside ditch.
That sent him over the edge. He did a hellofa sideways hop and landed with
all four feet smack on the ground, stiff-legged. I went flying off and
landed butt first on a gravel road. Now gravel in Kansas is more like 2"
rocks, not little pea gravel.
Star looked quite apologetic, didn't run away or anything, and we got back
on. The only way to get home was past MORE oil wells, a whole field of
them! This time he kept a good eye on those horse-eating monsters, but
didn't bolt or jump. We had 4 miles to go with my very sore tush.
Someday I'll go back there to see how he reacts, now that I've got my
Aussie saddle and I won't go flying out, right, but since that time I've
discovered many much more scenic places to ride...Getting a trailer really
was nice...it's ugly, but safe.
chris paus & star
At 08:54 AM 1/11/98 EST, Naztari wrote:
>Because of horse transportation problems, I am having to ride my horse on
>roads also. He can be pretty spooky but seems to trust me when it comes to
>individual monsters. My problem is that when we get to 2 monsters I have a
>problem. He is not afraid of alot of things that he should have more respect
>for. Cars and dogs don't bother him. Yesterday on our ride we had 2
situations
>that got a little hairy in my mind. First, a backhoe was coming up the road
>toward us. I moved him to the opposite side of the road. He started getting
>antsy because of this large, funny looking, noisy machine. Then on our
side of
>the road came a pit bull. I knew the backhoe wasn't going to get us but
wasn't
>so sure about the pit bull. He looked serious as we started to violate his
>territory. Well, Sawyer could care less about any barking and growling
dog, so
>he continued to move further into the dogs territory. Yuk. We ended up
without
>attack from either monster but it sure did make me nervous. The other thing
>that Sawyer does is he'll take a wide sweep around some inanimate monsters.
>Even if that means getting in the way of cars (which he could care less
>about). That happened as we were coming off a bridge and the end railing had
>all his attention and a car coming towards the bridge gave him no concern
>whatsoever and he moved out into the middle of the road and no amount of
>prodding would get him back towards the rail. There was no real danger as the
>car had slowed down enough to stop if necessary but it is still not the place
>to be. Anyway, we have work to do.
>
>Ed and Sawyer who wishes we had the truck and trailer back to get outta these
>scary places.
>
>
>
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:04:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephanie Teeter <step@bluefish.fsr.com>
Message-Id: <199801111604.IAA18331@bluefish.fsr.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-reply-to: <80b8245c.34b6ee65@aol.com> (message from Keeyun on Fri, 9 Jan 1998 22:43:31 EST)
Subject: Re: trouble
Hi Kelly - your subscription looks fine, so I imagine
there's something going on at your end. Maybe something
with AOL?
Steph
>>>>> "Keeyun" == Keeyun <Keeyun@aol.com> writes:
> Hi I am still having trouble connecting to ride camp. I am
> getting all of my mail but i can not connect to the site. Do
> you think it will help if I unsubscribed and then resubscribed.
> I really miss not being able to connect Kelly
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From: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:15:32 -0500
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Subject: [Fwd: Re: Pony prices and training]
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To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training
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I have to ride down residential streets also and for along time it was
like running the gauntlet-pure terror. From barking dogs to skate
boards to lawn machinery to pickups whizzing past with tarps flapping
out the back it seemed every house provided their own horse-eating
threat. I tried many of the methods you all mentioned but still had to
get off and walk home more than a few times. The thing that worked was
just keeping at it no matter how miserable it was.
My friend Edie Whiting is fond of saying it just takes lots of wet
saddle blankets and that's the truth. Eventually the horse learns that
you'll take care of him and these scary things won't get him. I knew we
had turned a corner training-wise when my horse saw someone flinging
pieces of roofing from the roof into a metal box and barely batted an
eye. Just takes time, experience, and a willingness to suffer a bit in
the meantime. :-)
Karen
Ormond Beach
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:19:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephanie Teeter <step@bluefish.fsr.com>
Message-Id: <199801111619.IAA18374@bluefish.fsr.com>
To: guest@endurance.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-reply-to: <199801100501.VAA08125@fsr.com> (guest@endurance.net)
Subject: Re: Horse Trailors
If you want to spend the bucks, it's hard to beat
Sundowner (IMO). Dean Jackson out of Draper Utah sells
a lot of them to endurance folks. THey have a web page
at http://www.endurance.net/sundowner . THe Siesta
model fits your description. THe 3 horse model is
22 ft - shower/bathroom and basic live qtrs. THey
have an 8 ft wide option, which is definitely worth
it. Nice trailers.
Steph
>>>>> "guest" == guest <guest@endurance.net> writes:
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!! You must post
> replies to the actual sender listed below.
> From: Mary Abbott Email: mabbott@oro.net
> Hi! I would like some recommendations. We're looking for a
> slant 3 trailor with living quarters--mostly just shower and
> bathroom. Got any pointers? Things to look out for? We need
> to keep it under 21 feet. Thanks!
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:35:57 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: lyoness@castlenet.com (Joane Pappas White)
Subject: New to Sport
>To: willard@eagleut.com
>From: lyoness@castlenet.com (Joane Pappas White)
>Subject: New to Sport
>
>Hello,
>
>There are a lot of riders in Utah, including some nationally rank riders
like Bev Gray with her Bravo and Omnar in Park City, Dean and M.J. Jackson
from Salt Lake and Dr. Bruce Burnham from the SanPete Area. All have offered
help and suggestions and even invited me to ride with them. If you check
the riders' list on Endurance Net you will get email addresses for many of them.
>
>The southwestern part of Utah is well organinzed and has its own club.
They host the majority of the rides which are usually listed on Ridecamp
(but many are not there yet this year).
>
>I'm in Price and am just trying to start a group in southeastern Utah.
Several other riders from Emery county and Vernal have expressed interest.
Right now, I train with the cowboys and follow along to gather cattle or any
other activity to develop the horses. I also spend alot of time riding
alone as most people aren't into 25 mile rides. You and your horse will get
to be a good team when you spend that kind of time together.
>
>Good Luck,
>
>Joane and Thumper the Quarter Horse, Baby Tzar and CC, the new import from
Canada who belonged to Christy Janzen, if the weather ever warms up enough
to transport her!
>
>
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From: Jackcrook <Jackcrook@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8c9b3542.34b8f525@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:36:52 EST
To: Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Warner Springs (Long)
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El Nino has the Southern California Ride Calendar and strikes again. The
weather report Thursday night said 1/4 to 3/4 inch of rain possible. We got
that much just getting to the ride. The camp filled up fast and everyone was
in good spirits. The rains continued. Terry had ridecamp badges and I got to
meet other ridecampers. This is my first post, but I have been enjoying
ridecamp for about a year now.
This was to be my first 50 on my new horse, ReinBeau. We were as prepared for
the rain as I could think of things to buy. I had goretex socks for my feet,
StateLine's Mountain Horse rain coat, gloves, insulated winter riding pants,
waterproof mittons, fleece eat protectors, yellow rain slicker, Aussie rain
coats, etc. For ReinBeau I brought two nylon winter blankets, hood, coolers
and his brand new polar fleece blanket (made by Cory Navoy another
ridecamper), and rain sheets that I got from Stateline many years ago and had
only used once. I was as prepared as I could think of.
The rains continued, and continued, and continued. All night we got no sleep
as the rain pounded the top of our motor home. We were one of the lucky ones,
as we only found one leak and it wasn't over the bed, but our refrigerator
decided not to work. Who needed cold drinks and ice cream anyway. All night
I was trying to decide what to wear. I had more choices than most. The rains
continued, and continued and continued. This is Southern California and it's
not supposed to do this. At 4:30am I got up to feed and Terry came over said
the ride was cancelled. I told her I supported her decision 100%. People
from other parts of the country probably don't understand what 3-4 inches of
rain does to us. We get heavy run off and dangerous conditions. Cancelling a
ride with 160 entries must have been an agonizing decision for Terry. She
cancelled it for two reasons and rider comfort was not one of them. The
concern was for the horses (and riders) getting hurt on the trails from the
very muddy conditions and for the trails themselves. I was relieved the ride
was cancelled and disappointed also. I would not have wanted ReinBeau to get
hurt. We've worked hard to get to this point in his training and I want his
first 50 to be enjoyable.
Terry called a rider meeting at 8:00am and gave the riders choices as to what
to do about refunds. If you donated your entry back to the ride, you would
get a completion award and a drawing would be held for weight division awards,
top ten etc., roll your entry over to another one of our rides or get a full
refund.
As riders left and headed out, the mud hole in front of the gate got worse and
worse. Finally a tractor was called in and several had to be towed through.
We left about noon and other gates were reopened and we did fine. I put my
horse away, unloaded a few things and Rhonda and John Kabot and I headed back
up for the awards/dinner and a dip in the mineral pool.
The pool was great, even though it was still raining (reduced to a mist), the
dinner was excellent and the awards banquet was probably one of the most fun
ones I have attended. Riders like me, who just ride to have a good time and
finish with a happy sound horse, got equal chance to get awards for top ten
and weight division. I sat at the table with Theresa Bitondo and Maureen
Sullivan who seemed to win everything. It was a really fun time. Terry
managed to made a disappointing time into something special as usual. I got
my completion award for the "Fantasy 50", had a great time and am not stiff
and sore. ReinBeau thinks he really did do his first 50 as I have a beautiful
sweatshirt that says he did, even though he never left his pen. I, as his
Mom, think he did a 50 miler from just from being excited and doing laps in
his pen. ReinBeau and I think the "Fantasy 50" was a great idea from Terry.
At dinner we heard the horror stories from riders who went out and rode the
first 14 mile loop. Bogs, very deep river crossings and dangerously muddy
conditions were the subject.
I never heard any rider not support Terry's decision to cancel this ride.
What ended up a disappointment to all turned out to be fun and I want to thank
Terry putting together such a fun time. Thanks Terry.
Cindy Crook
o us. We get heavy run off and dangerous conditions. Cancelling a
ride with 160 entries must have been an agonizing decision for Terry. She
cancelled it for two reasons and rider comfort was not one of them. The
concern was for the horses (and riders) getting hurt on the trails from the
very muddy conditions and for the trails themselves. I w5477 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000004341 06456175463 0013132 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from chickasaw.gate.net (root@chickasaw.gate.net [198.206.134.26]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA25456 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:02:39 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Linda Durkee" <silkyn@gate.net>
Subject: Price of Horses
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 98 12:02:08 PST
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I don't agree that one has to pay a lot of money for a good horse. I have
a set amount that I am willing to spend for the purchase of the " future
chance of success" with flexibility built into it. Just because one pays a
high price does not mean that this new horse in going to be a good
endurance horse. Big money does not guarantee that there will be no
lameness problems, suspensory problems, back problems, metabolic probllems
or the hundred other things that can go wrong with a horse. And, something
that is important to me......... personality problems.
I have not paid big prices for my horses, perhaps because I am willing to
train them myself. And, I like the idea, that from the beginning....they
are what I make them or don't make them. Even if you do not have the
ability to train a horse, it is still a lot more reasonable to send the new
guy to a reliable trainer for 3-4 months if necessary. Certainly won't add
up to the $5,000 - 10,000 horse. And paying big money for a horse that has
never done endurance before doesn't mean that they are ready to go out and
win................still takes the same amount of time to build a good
endurance horse that will keep on going down the trail for you.
To me, looking around for "back yard" treasures that owners don't realize
their potential sure can be a good deal. I won't say that those that can
afford the higher price are foolish, just we all spend what we can afford.
Just my opinion.
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <610e4982.34b8fba7@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:04:38 EST
To: willard@eagleut.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training
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In a message dated 98-01-11 00:29:51 EST, you write:
<< I thought I was the only one that had rides around the neighborhood like
yours. We live out by several dairy farms and my guy thinks that every cow he
sees is going to run up and kill him. We also have a lot of fun on our rides
but haven't had a RELAXING ride yet. I am just hoping that with patience and
time(and lots of circling) that eventuallly we will be able to focus his
energy in a positive way >>
Dear Carrie, we too have cow farms nearby. David does not mind the cows--even
when they run up to the fence and "chase" us as we trot by--but he has an
absolutely pathological fear of garbage trucks, and also we have an elk farm
nearby which has a short but beautiful trail behind it. You have to ride
alongside the elk enclosure for about a half mile to get to the trail though,
and David is absolutely sure those elk are out to get him. Even when he is
follwing behind my "old faithful" gelding Tash, and sees that Tash ignores the
elk, David has fits! My farrier said I should get some elk scent from a
hunting store and sprinkle it around the barn and paddock. I have not tried
this yet, but may if I cannot get him over this elk fear next spring! David
is not to keen on deer either. This is not good--lots of deer and some elk in
Michigan--! And the distance rides here go right through where they are.
Trish & "pretty David"
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From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: spooking horses...
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Hey Chris,
You hit the nail on the head with your excellent post on spooking the
John Lyons method. The key is teaching them it is ok to spook, just
spook in place! Making them face their anxiety also works and you are
right, circling can sometimes get them more worked up. But if you use
your LEGS to keep them from backing or turning, but just facing the
problem, you can get results.
There are also relaxation methods (I'm sure you are aware of) for
helping the horse dispurse some of his tension while it is occuring.
Teaching them at calm times to turn their head to your foot on cue is
one of these methods, especially if it is ingrained as an automatic
response. THIS is where ground work helps the problems in the saddle.
Anytime the horse lowers its head it is relaxing. This gives the horse
a familiar response he's learned to trust and helps dispurse that
flight instinct. The stop and stare spook is just a hesitation for
you, the rider, to gain the horse's attention back for that split
second before full panick and flight sets in. You must have an
immediate response to get their mind off the situation and/or reassure
them the situation will not harm them. Each time it occurs, the horse
trusts you more and more, the spooks become less or not as violent, you
feel the trust and bonding increase.
Make sense?
Then, you will be face with the "I don't really want to work today so
I think I'll spook at everything" syndrome! But, alas, that is another
story and one you come to recognize!
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab.."what! Me ride in the rain! In the
arena! oh man, those caveletti might jump up and whack me....no
way...")
ok in place! Making them face their anxiety also works and you are
right, circling can sometimes get them more worked up. But if you use
your LEGS to keep them f5480 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002202 06456200550 0013100 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net (mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.33]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA27471 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 09:29:08 -0800 (PST)
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Reply-To: <capape@worldnet.att.net>
From: "Carol Harrison" <capape@worldnet.att.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: OOOPs!
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:29:09 -0800
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Sorry Steph, I forgot to take the -d out of the address when I posted these
messages.
Is wheat germ oil ok to use in place of corn oil for adding fat to the
diet? If so, would it be fed at the same rate or at a lessor amount?
Since wheat germ oil contains more nutrients than corn oil, would it upset
the balance in the feed ration?
Thanks,
Carol
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <12b0eb65.34b90147@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:28:38 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Price of Horses
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I don't know where on this thread the misconception came about that good
endurance prospects cost so much money! I breed specifically for endurance.
I also know several other people with similar bloodlines who have produced
many outstanding endurance horses. Unstarted prospects from QUALITY ENDURANCE
LINES and REPUTABLE BREEDERS are out there for $1500-$4000 depending on age,
etc. The prices being passed around on this thread for prospects is usually
only commanded by horses that are already well-started and usually have
already been to some rides. At least that is the case in my area. I'd sure
like to make those big bucks on horses, too, but it is not realistic to the
pocketbooks of most of my clientele. Most of us are far more concerned about
getting our horses into the hands of capable people--we just can't afford to
GIVE them away for a few hundred dollars, and shouldn't have to. Still, if
you think we are getting those big bucks, you haven't shopped most of the
reputable breeders!
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Cam/Shannon Wood" <wood.cameron@acd.net>
Subject: Re: Portable Stalls
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 98 14:06:23 PST
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However, twice to be exact, she has
> decided she wanted to be somewhere else (not spooked) and sat down and
broke
> the snap on the lead rope.
Last summer, while at a ride in Northern Michigan, my 4yo greenie decided
that he'd rather follow my more experienced gelding on a 50 miler than
stand quietly on his picket line. Thankfully I had left a "babysitter" (my
mother) behind to watch him, as he's not trustworthy at rides yet. When
Khomytt decided that he couldn't break the line by sitting down or rearing
and plunging, he took five minutes and CHEWED through the cotton lead, and
than ran around camp visiting other trailers with my mother frantically
running after him.
When I returned to camp, I saw that all was well with Khomytt ... he was
standing quietly, muching hay. My mother, however, was a wreck.... thus my
confusion when she said with quiet conviction, " Please, please have
grandchildren... I'll watch them anytime. Just don't EVER ask me to watch
my grandhorse again!"
Happy trails,
Shannon W.
Laingsburg, MI
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 10:40:24 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: Re: Bob Marshall Sports Saddle
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At 11:45 PM 1/10/98 EST, you wrote:
>I have been using a Sport saddle for a few years and absolutley love it. I
>recently did a four day ride (Death Valley) with it.
Ditto!!
Speaking of which, I have the following for sale:
14" chocolate youth cut, stirrups back, endurance model, used 2 mos.
15" black, stirrups back, endurance model, slightly used
Also, if anybody is interested I have a brand new full sheepskin cover in
black (with leg wraps) custom made to fit a 14.5" Sports Saddle. Customer
changed mind on color.
e-mail me for prices!
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Weaver, 1230 miles
& Rocky, 350 miles
http://www.greatbasin.net/~sportssaddle
New saddles in stock now!
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From: Merryben <Merryben@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c66b62a6.34b91aac@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:16:59 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: RIDE ENTRIES
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The AERC requires that members present their cards at check in or pay $10.00.
If the ride manager does not check the cards and there is some discrepancy
[fake numbers given, wrong numbers given, etc.] the ride manager must pay the
$10.00. Remember the old days when you had to send a copy of your horse's
registration papers to qualify for a breed award? I have found that when I
enter a ride, I just send a xerox copy of my AERC membership card along with
the entry. This saves alot of time for the ride secretary. Trust me, I am
one and I know these things.
Thanks to all of you for the good wishes, cards and phone calls since my big
fall at Las Vegas and my subsequent surgery. My knee and tibia are now held
together with bone grafts, a titanium plate and ten screws. No more sailing
through airport metal detectors.
Maryben Stover
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From: Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8c9b9e1d.34b91bae@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:21:17 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training
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I've been following with interest all the posts re training young horses,
overcoming spooking, and getting them past scary things. I have a four-year-
old I'm bringing along. We go out alone from the house and encounter many
scary things along the way, including emus (no longer scary), traffic (more
scary to me than to my horse!), cows and other farm animals, and unknown scary
things when he just stops and I can't for the life of me figure out what it is
that's causing him to hesitate. I borrowed from John Lyons' trailer loading
methods to get him to go by cows. When he stops, I tap him gently with the
dressage whip--tap, tap, tap--until he moves just one foot. Then I stop. Then
tap, tap, tap again, until he takes another step. As long as he takes a step
forward, he gets rewarded by having the tapping stop. Seems to work.
The worst he does is a 180 degree spin in a millisecond. Once, up in the
mountains, he got me off when he saw some deer. Another time, I was hanging
off the edge and simply willed myself back into the saddle. Taking dressage
lessons (on another horse) with an excellent trainer has improved my seat to
the degree that I have much more confidence than I used to. I'm able to stay
relaxed and loose most of the time, which, as others have pointed out, is
important. The result is that I try to look at every obstacle as an
opportunity--an opportunity for training and getting my horse used to things.
When I was looking for an endurance prospect, I intended to get a fully
trained horse. However, when I saw this 3-year-old, I fell in love with him
and decided to take on the challenge. It's been frustrating at times, but
educational and immensely satisfying.
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:39:10 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801111939.LAA04472@fsr.com>
Subject: What the Mileage has Done
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Bev Ryan
Email: rikan@e-z.net
I purchased my first Arab last January to do endurance. I thought for sure the first 6 months that he would surely kill me. Had all the spooking problems, rearing and just about everything you could think of he would try. This guy will be 11 this year and for 9 years of his life he was a pasture ornament. Today, just one year later he is a prince. He did 7 50 mile endurance rides last year, completing 5, and completing in the top ten of 4. This winter we have taken 3 dressage lessons, and last week I took him team penning at our local fair grounds. He is my trusty steed and wouldn't trade him for the world. Butttttt if you had asked me months ago I was ready to give up on him. Just to let some of you know that it takes time to build trust and a lot of patience.
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 11:46:26 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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Subject: West Coast AERC convention
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This comes under the "For What It's Worth" Category---however, there
have been a few posts that there WILL be a one-day AERC convention held
in Sacramento on March 14---I know Courtney Hart and the Education
committee is working really hard to get together some good speakers.
For anyone that's been interested in the past year or two about me
yammering on about body condition scores in endurance horses, I'll be
presenting a one-hour lecture and slide show at the convention on the
study and, more importantly, the practical applications for endurance
riders. The data was collected on 360 endurance horses and we got some
really fantastic results.
Hope to see some of you there.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:26:55 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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Subject: Re: Horse Trailors
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I have just one recommendation when looking at trailers with living
quarters---there are alot of used trailers out there that had the front
tack area converted into living quarters, as opposed to the professional
jobs like Dean Jackson's. The trailer we bought two years ago was
bought as an empty shell by the owner of a Ford dealership, who then had
his Service department do the conversion and installations of plumbing,
generators, etc. They did a good job, and this trailer certainly has
EVERYTHING, but there were alot of little things that were just
installed a bit funny, that we later had to have re-installed or somehow
changed around to make it really work right. For instance, the fresh
water tank held 45 gallons, but the waste water tank only held 15
gallons, and ALL waste wtaer (black and gray) went into that one
tank---if you filled it up taking a shower, then your toilets (in my
opinion, a higher priority) wouldn't flush. Also, the waste water tank
wasn't vented, so odors came back up through the sinks. Nasty, but
easily fixed. There were other small things like the ways things were
wired, etc.
The point to all this is if you're looking at buying a "home-conversion"
trailer---and there are lots of really nice ones out there if you can't
buy one of the brand-new ones---it might be well worth the money to take
the trailer for a "pre-purchase exam" by a loccal RV service center.
They'll be able to check everything out and tell you what's wrong or
missing. Our service guys did a super job of adding just a few things
here or there to really make everything perfect, and it cost alot less
for their time than it did in our potential headaches. Like everything
else, it's easier to deal with problems if you know about them ahead of
time.
Good luck in finding your perfect trailer.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 12:38:14 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: capape@worldnet.att.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wheat germ oil
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Carol Harrison wrote:
>
> Sorry Steph, I forgot to take the -d out of the address when I posted these
> messages.
>
> Is wheat germ oil ok to use in place of corn oil for adding fat to the
> diet? If so, would it be fed at the same rate or at a lessor amount?
> Since wheat germ oil contains more nutrients than corn oil, would it upset
> the balance in the feed ration?
>
> Thanks,
> Carol
Hi Carol,
Wheat germ oil is fine as a fat supplement to the diet, but it isn't
appreciably any different from corn oil, nutrition-wise. It is a bit
higher in some of the fat-soluble vitamins, but not enough to make any
difference in the total diet. You can feed it at the same rate as corn
oil (or any other vegetable oil). Take a look at the price of corn vs.
wheat germ oil to see if it's really cost-effective to be feeding wheat
germ oil. Since what you primarily want out of oil is the extra
calories (the same in corn vs. wheat germ oils), it may be just as
beneficial, but cheaper, to feed corn or vegetable oil.
Also, be sure you keep the oil (of any type) in a tightly sealed
container away from as much air as possible, as rancidity (occurring
within about ten days) will affect nutritional value and palatability.
Keeping it in small container (less air space) in the frig is a good
idea if possible.
If you're feeding more than about a cup or so a day, try to break up the
fat into two or more feedings to increase the efficiency of absorption
in the gut. If you feed alot of oil all at once, the intestines can get
a little overwhelmed and the oil will pass through undigested---thereby
losing the nutritional benefits of the oil and possibly causing a little
diarrhea.
Good luck,
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:06:22 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: CATUNDERWD <CATUNDERWD@aol.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Portable Stalls
References: <28f7bb8c.34b8c85f@aol.com>
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"looking for input on the different portable stalls on the market or any
homemade ideas that work."
Cathy:
I made a cool corral out of PVC pipe! Cut panels sized to fit on the side of my
two horse trailer, brackets to hold the 5 panels together, and added that orange
construction netting to the sides so Gabe wouldn't stick his head through the
panels searching for grass. (Did this the first time, threw up his head, and
snapped two panels....but they glue right back together!)
Light weight: I can easily lift all 5 panels off the trailer myself, then they
'accordian' out from the trailer.....the trailer itself being the 'sixth' panel.
However, this corral won't actually 'hold' a horse if the horse gets other
ideas......he has to respect the fence or he'll go right through it. Below is a
picuture.....at dawn....Honey Lake 50. Hope this helps.
--
Deanne Del Vecchio
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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<I>"looking for input on the different portable stalls on the market or
any</I>
<BR><I>homemade ideas that work."</I>
<P>Cathy:
<P>I made a cool corral out of PVC pipe! Cut panels sized to fit on the
side of my two horse trailer, brackets to hold the 5 panels together, and
added that orange construction netting to the sides so Gabe wouldn't stick
his head through the panels searching for grass. (Did this the first time,
threw up his head, and snapped two panels....but they glue right back together!)
<P>Light weight: I can easily lift all 5 panels off the trailer myself,
then they 'accordian' out from the trailer.....the trailer itself being
the 'sixth' panel. However, this corral won't actually 'hold' a horse if
the horse gets other ideas......he has to respect the fence or he'll go
right through it. Below is a picuture.....at dawn....Honey Lake 50.
Hope this helps.
<P>--
<BR>Deanne Del Vecchio
<BR>Creative Computer Concepts
<BR>South Lake Tahoe, CA
<BR>delvecchio@geocities.com
<BR> </HTML>
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Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:53:02 +0000
Message-ID: <34B93F73.858@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 13:53:55 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: rikan@e-z.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: What the Mileage has Done
References: <199801111939.LAA04472@fsr.com>
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guest@endurance.net wrote:
>
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
> You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>
> From: Bev Ryan
> Email: rikan@e-z.net
>
>
Hi Bev,
I just wanted to congratulate you on sticking to it and doing so well
with your new guy. I hope you have lots of happy miles with him in the
future.
Just a word of caution---while muscle and wind can be developed in a
year, the denser tissues such as bone and tendons take up to three years
to fully develop. Although it may appear that your guy is going great
guns, you might consider slowing down just a wee bit and not going for
Top Tens right off the bat. Give him a year or two of slow,
conservative finishes to build up the dense tissue before you ask him
for faster finishes. It sounds like you want to do this right and have
many, many miles on the trail, and there is overwhelming evidence that
the really high mileage horses are the ones that got in several years of
long, slow developmental work before they were asked to hurry up. Even
though your guy may be finishing sound right now, his bone and tendon
just hasn't had a chance to fully respond to the new demands of
endurance and so you might be at higher risk of leg problems within the
first few years. It's very common to want to top ten as soon as the
muscle and heart says you can---think how much more fun it'll be if you
can give him a chance for everything to catch up and still be doing it
ten or fifteen years down the road. :-)
Best of luck to you, and again, congratulations on having survived the
first year of Riding with Hurrican Handles.
Susan Garlinghouse
5492 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001457 06456240777 0013135 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from u3.farm.idt.net (root@u3.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.12]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA12567 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:04:42 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34B940A3.5DB1@idt.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:58:59 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: KJ Destination
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Anyone know the breeding on Shirley Delsart's horse, KJ Destination?
tracy
5493 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001502 06456241265 0013116 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.172]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13139 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:07:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Arabryder <Arabryder@aol.com>
Message-ID: <73f3234a.34b941e5@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:04:20 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Formalin??
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)
I missed part of the formaldehyde thread but did see mention of formalin.
I've been using a product called Thrush Buster. Ingredients (in order) are:
water, isopropanal, formalin, P.V.P iodine complex, gentian violet.
Is anyone familiar with this product? Considering the thread, I'm wondering
whether I should continue to use it?
Diana
5494 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003052 06456242707 0013123 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from u3.farm.idt.net (root@u3.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.12]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13820 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:20:51 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34B9446A.5BEE@idt.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:15:06 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: KIMBERLY PRICE <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: spooking horses...
References: <199801111719.LAB02940@dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>
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KIMBERLY PRICE wrote:
> Then, you will be face with the "I don't really want to work today so
> I think I'll spook at everything" syndrome! But, alas, that is another
> story and one you come to recognize!
>
Ah yes, my horse pulled this one on me for quite awhile. took the
stupid human a good 4 months to figure out <G>
He had figured out that if he spooked, he could drop out of a trot and
walk 3-4 steps. All it took was one smack on the buttus with the crop,
and then all I had to do was stick it out where he could see that it was
still there. I could see him think about it, and then he'd seem to go
ummmm nope, nope, that butt-smacky thing is still there...
Now all I ever have to do is break a 4" twig off of a bush to show him .
tracy
5495 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002173 06456244400 0013117 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from milo.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [205.219.240.6]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14520 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:34:36 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34B96FDA.4D02@cfw.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:20:26 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Rivets and safety for saddle mods
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Wooops! I mis-spoke !Re rivets:they are fast and convenient,but
they are NOT generally as strong as stitching. So when modifying, use
caution. Lay it up with rivets perhaps,but stitch or have stitched if
safety is an issue. My "in-flap" rigging is done entirely with rivets,but
the upper portion of this thing is a triangulated pattern of about a
dozen rivets,and this is a low-stress part,since I'm not planning to rope
any cows.If in doubt,sew it.
5496 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005253 06456245733 0013134 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@pop3.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA15172 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 14:46:47 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34B8EA3F.F9687A8C@foothill.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 15:50:27 +0000
From: Candi Suddjian <wstf@foothill.net>
Reply-To: wstf@foothill.net
Organization: Western States Trail Foundation ~ "The Tevis Cup 100 Miles One Day Ride"
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To: RideCamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
CC: Heather Davis <heathdav@foothill.net>
Subject: Tevis FOWSTA Meeting
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FOWSTA
FRIENDS OF THE WESTERN STATES TRAIL ALLIANCE
701 High St., #228C
Auburn, CA 95603
530/823-7282 FAX 530/823-7901
http://www.foothill.net/tevis
FOWSTA MEETING
Wednesday, January 28, 1998 - 7:30 PM prompt
It’s been a while since FOWSTA has met, so let’s get together and have
some fun!!
We have found a very nice place for our meeting - The ABA - located
directly across from the Auburn Courthouse, below Latitudes Restaurant.
We will have the place all to ourselves. Ample parking behind and below
the restaurant; entrance to ABA from the lower level near the parking
lot or through the restaurant.
There is a full bar at the ABA. Coffee and cold drinks are also
available. Dessert will be offered later in the evening. The meeting
will begin at 7:30 promptly!! If you wish to have dinner at Latitudes
restaurant before the meeting, plan to be there by 6 or 6:30. Please
call me (Heather @ 889-8808), so that I can make reservations so that we
can all sit together. The menu is moderately priced, hamburgers and
fries are available.
The ABA is a very pleasant place to meet - I hope you will like it. It
has a central location and the proprietors, Pat and Pete Enoch, are very
helpful.
AGENDA ITEMS
Formal toasts and drinks to the now open No-Hands Bridge - speeches,
wild applause and cheering.
Post-mortem on the Christmas party.
The West region mini-convention on March 14th in Sacramento
Should we be there? Cocktail party?
Volunteers
FOWSTA projects:
Need new map and new name (??“Share the Trail”, “Guardian of the
Trail”, Adopt the Trail”??) for “Sale of the Trail” campaign. Who
will help?
Need someone to help catalogue/date/arrange the many photographs
relating to the Tevis Cup Ride over the years.
Link/chat group?
The Tevis Forum
New business?
5497 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002577 06456257225 0013142 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17124 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:06:41 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:06:41 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801120006.QAA17124@fsr.com>
Subject: Horse for sale
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Amber Roberts
Email: mlaboure@flash.net
I have my competition horse for sale this year! He is the 1997 second place winner in Competitive Trail in Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas. He is a black Missouri Fox Trotter/Arabian mix, gelding, 8 years old, 15 hands, and weighs 1,025 pounds. People have told me he is "magnificient." He has done Limited Distance Endurance and has finished every ride started. Has good P&Rs. Judges seem to like him in Competitive Trail. He travels well, camps tied to the trailer or picket line, crosses water, goes up and down hills properly, has a good back up, sidepasses to open gates. He has a very fast walk, extremely smooth trot, and fantastic canter. We live near the LBJ National Grasslands in Decatur, Tx, therefore this horse has thousands of trails miles behind him. He is ready for much more of a career; rider isn't. Asking $4,000. If interested please call 940-627-8005 or email me at mlaboure@flash.net Thanks.
5498 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003262 06456257560 0013135 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [204.216.64.33]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18030 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:10:20 -0800 (PST)
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Message-Id: <199801120008.QAA21811@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net>
From: "Carol Barrett" <cbar@lightspeed.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Warner Springs
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:08:03 -0800
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Hi all-
Glad everyone made it back from the Warner Springs Ride. I, for one, had a
great time, despite feeling like a "drowned rat". Jim and I hit the great
food spots around WHS on Saturday-the bakery at Santa Isabel, the pie place
at Julian and the wineries at Temecula! I usually lose a few pounds on
rides, but I'm afraid I did quite the opposite on this one. Coupled with
the execeptional food served at the resort, I think I've entered a new
weight division.....
Thanks, Peggie, for leaving early. We stole your spot at the campground
after you vacated it <g>. Having been one of the late comers on Friday, we
we're relegated to a not-so-favorable spot that included a potential bog!
After you guys left, we moved and enjoyed the weekend on a little firmer
ground! I'm not going to Fire Mountain (gotta work), so I'll see everyone
at Twenty Mule Team!
Carol Barrett & Rocky (who's looking like a BLM reject these days)
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To: CATUNDERWD@AOL.COM
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Portable Stalls
Message-ID: <19980112.050229.11366.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <28f7bb8c.34b8c85f@aol.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:08:18 EST
On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 08:25:50 EST CATUNDERWD <CATUNDERWD@aol.com> writes:
>really
>looking for input on the different portable stalls on the market or
>any
>homemade ideas that work.
>
>Thanks!
>Cathy
>
>O.K. , here's a couple. I tied to the trailer for my first few rides,
but when my husband decided to do a ride, he built his horse a corral.
He used 2" PVC and made the pannels about 5' long, 4' high. The first
problems we encountered were how to attatch them to each other. We tried
hay rope, not secure enough, settled on...what else...Duck tape. Next we
had a problem with the horses scooting it. This was settled by making
18" metal pipe stakes which we hammered in the ground and settled the
panels down over them. Now, how to haul it. Originally we stacked the
panels in the truck bed (under a camper top) and put all the other stuff
inside and around it. (Lots of trouble). Now I have mounted metal
brackets over the fender of the horse trailer (actually bucket hangers
which I use at the ride) , I put the panels upside down on the fender and
bungy cord them to the trailer.
Lessons learned. PVC breaks. More so when it's cold. I've been using
this corral for 10 years, but on a cold day Kaboot can put his neck under
it, throw his head and shatter a panel. 2nd. I should have measured the
length of the fender of the trailer before making panels. It's much
easier to haul them right side up standing on the step area. 3rd. I
could have bought a good corral with all the duck tape I've used.
Finally learned that a good tight bungy cord will work (2, one on top,
one on bottom)
My friend bought a metal corral. The problems I saw with it were that
when set up on uneven ground, you had to stack rocks or something under
the legs or they swing like a gate. It's heavy. The 40" standard height
was just low enough to tempt. She got hers 44" and that was good.
I hate electric corrals. Sure, the horse who is used to them stays in,
but what happens when one stupid horse gets loose, touches one, bolts
through camp and takes them all with him? And I could MURDER people who
run a string around some poles, don't hook it up to anything and say,
"it's O.K. she'll stay in anything" (This is the stupid horse who bolts
through camp later that night).
Recently I tried a picket line and I'm in love. I had never liked the
looks of them. I thought the horse would get a leg over it, or would not
feel free to lay down. Kaboot loves it. He lays down, walks around a
lot, has never gotten tangled, and now that I don't have to listen to
those PVC panels pop as he scratches his head on it all night, I have
actually started sleeping at rides!
Hope this helps,
Angie McGhee and Kaboot, "Do I get credit for walking up and down this
rope?"
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:09:23 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Saddles & Alum. trailers
References: <199801110159.RAA26304@fsr.com>
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Does anyone have any information on the Tycoon Stainless Steel trailers?
Dee
guest@endurance.net wrote:
>
> alum. trailers I am most interested in are Silverado, 4-Star & Alum-Line. However, one ride-camper suggested I consider the all "stainess steel" trailer made by Tycoon. I was/am intrigued enough that I am in the process of obtaining more info.from them. Thank you one and all for your help!
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:33:32 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Susanw@exactimaging.com (susan)
Subject: RE;Pony prices and training (long)
Thanks Trish for saying it all, I'm keeping your posting for the know it
alls who think I should keep my young horses. After getting hurt twice this
summer, and finding all kinds of excuses not to train, I'm going to look
for an older horse thats trained. I also found it funny that one of the
people giving me unsolicted advise, turned me down flat when I offered to
let her ride my young ones!.
Susan & the outward expanding mares. (is that a blimp in the pasture?)
Oregon, U.S.A.
A canter is a cure for every evil.
Benjamin Disraeli
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:40:31 -0500
From: Pete and Deb LaBerge <plaberge@epix.net>
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Subject: Susan Gibson address
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Dear ridecamp,
Many people have asked for Susan Gibson Sutton's address in GA
to send a card of condolence about the death of
her husband Bobby Sutton.
Susan Gibson Sutton
PO Box 939
Pine Lake, GA 30072
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:51:01 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Susanw@exactimaging.com (susan)
Subject: re;Pony prices and training
to put it better theres really nothing wrong with the horses, just my
adittude towards training. I used to love it, but life is hectric now so
I'm prefering the "easy" rides on the old lady. Our horses hate the smell
of deer, our latest thrill is a skunk moved in next to your trails!.
Susan & the outward expanding mares. (is that a blimp in the pasture?)
Oregon, U.S.A.
A canter is a cure for every evil.
Benjamin Disraeli
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <77f434f6.34b96b4d@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:00:59 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ROC TAPES 1997
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)
I have taped four hours of the ROC held in PENN
in 1997. Anyone interested can contact me at
RICMARC@AOL.COM
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From: EndrncRidr <EndrncRidr@aol.com>
Message-ID: <da3153f4.34b96eae@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:15:12 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dry Feet--Ariat review
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)
In a message dated 98-01-10 10:51:37 EST, you write:
<< >
>Ariat Extreme riding boots- Great for keeping feet warm and dry. Very
>comfortable too.
>
>Debby
>
>
Last year I posted a rave review about the Ariat "Winter" boots. They
were replaced with the Ariat "Extreme". I must now say I am
"Extreme"-ly disappointed with the change. Here are the things I don't
like about the "Extreme" that were perfect on the old model.
1. Hate that thick roll of fabric at the top. It hurts the back of my
leg. Plus it makes the boot feel bulky and clunky.
2. Hate the way boot fits in the achillies area. It rides too high &
pinches.
3. The tongue is too short and too bulky.
4. They are not comfortable to walk in.
5. Hate the way they cause blisters on the outside of my heels.
6. Hate the way they don't even feel good when you are sitting down. >>
When I first got into the sport I had a pair of Ropers. The first time I got
off and ran with my horse I blistered like crazy. Traded the Ropers for a pair
of hiking boots. They were perfect. I like to run with my horse, I like to
have some traction when I hit the ground. However, I also wanted something
that would maybe get a few more miles than your average cheap pair of hikers.
Something that would support my high arches, that would fit under my half
chaps, something that looked good with my riding tights and also with my
jeans. (That being the last consideration! ;-) )
Last year I treated myself to a pair of Ariat Extremes after seeing them in
Trailblazer.
I have put well over 700 miles on my Extremes in the past year, in competition
and conditioning. I disagree with every one of the statements above. They keep
my feet dry, they fit under my half chaps, I RAN alot of miles over all kinds
of terrain in them. Oh, and they look great as a fashion accessory! ;-) No
blisters, no discomfort, NO complaints. Perhaps yours are a size too small or
something.
Anyhow, everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions. You have
obviously had a bad experience with your Extremes. You hate the boots, I love
them. Would buy them again in a heart beat!
Happy trails and Happy shoe shopping,
Darlene Anderson
& the FeatherB
Stanwood, WA
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ba777a05.34b973b4@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:36:51 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: NO ROC 98?
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X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)
I heard it was going to be in Penn again and on
the labor day weekend , just this weekend. From
some endurance riders. I was at the expo in Maine.
Marcy
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Message-ID: <34B97EAD.732B@inetworld.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:23:41 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Warner Springs Ride Canceled (long)
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The days preceding Friday were beautiful, but on Friday it began to
rain. It rained on and off in the morning, and by nightfall it was a
steady downpour. Throughout the night it was heavy. I was awake most
of the night hoping that it would stop raining so that the riders would
not have to ride in the rain. At 3:30 a.m. I said to my husband David
“I’m going to cancel the race.” I was not concerned about the riders
riding in the rain, but I realized that even if it stopped raining by
morning, so much rain had fallen that some of the uphill climbs in the
first loop would become so greasy with over 100 riders that it would be
dangerous to both rider and horse. There were also a couple of areas
along the Pacific Crest Trail that were narrow and I was not sure
whether or not some of those trails would have become unstable, thereby
creating more dangers. Another consideration was the damage that would
have been done to the trails themselves by riders running over
rain-soaked ground. I got up at 3:30 and went to the lodge to call the
fifth vet that was coming out in the morning to tell him not to come. I
went to the equestrian center at 4:00 a.m. to talk to the equestrian
manager (she was going to feed the endurance horses at 4:00 a.m.). We
discussed the situation and she agreed with me that the trails would be
dangerous after so much rain.
While it was a disappointing decision to make, it was not a difficult
one. When weighing the safety of the riders and the damage to the
environment, against the monetary loss, there was really no choice.
Initially, some of the riders did not understand the necessity of
canceling the ride, but after many of the riders returned from riding
parts of the course on race day (the weather was nice), and relating
stories of slippery trials, stream crossings up to their horses'
bellies, mud bogs, etc., the riders realized the dire consequences that
could have happened had the race not been canceled.
All the riders were given the option of receiving a full refund,
rolling over their entry money to a future ride, or participating in a
“fantasy ride.” All of the completion awards had already been
purchased, as well as awards for the top five best conditioned 25
milers, and top ten as well as division winner awards for the 50
milers. The majority of the riders participated in the “fantasy ride”
because I think they realized what a financial burden canceling a ride
puts on the ride manager and understood that if ride managers lose large
sums of their own money on rides, they can no longer afford to manage
them. The vets even waived most of their fees. Some people left in the
morning, but the majority stayed for the remainder of the weekend and
listened to a talk by Dr. Louie Enos, enjoyed the cocktail party at the
Olympic size hot pool in the afternoon, and had great buffet dinner
(even many of those receiving refunds or roll-overs stayed). Amazingly,
12 hours after the ride was canceled, there were 160 for dinner at the
awards banquet for the fantasy ride.
The “fantasy ride” was a great success (there were no pulls, no riders
got hurt, no horses had to be treated). There were lottery drawings
for the premium awards, and so a couple of the riders received top ten
awards on their first 50! It was a very festive awards dinner and at
times there were shouts of “great ride,” “nice job” when someone
receive their completion award. Everyone got into the spirit of things
and had a great time.
This weekend reaffirmed my faith and bond in the “great endurance
family.”
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 18:22:56 -0800
From: "Patrick E. Allen" <jfhr@inet1.inetworld.net>
Reply-To: jfhr@inetworld.net
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To: twhowe@inetworld.net
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Warner Springs Ride Canceled (long)
References: <34B97EAD.732B@inetworld.net>
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Dear Terry, it was great fun to be at Warner Springs this weekend in spite of the
damp conditions. My daughter and I enjoyed the fellowship and the great attitudes
of the riders. I have a lot of respect for you as a ride manager and for the
decision you made for the ride. Hopefully the next ride will be under better
weather conditions. Thanks for saving that special place for me. Also I really
enjoyed having Lisa from Fort Dodge share my booth , it was my pleasure. She is a
nice lady. See ya next time.
Evelyn Hartman
Just for horsin-round
Ontra-manuer Extraordinaire
Terry Woolley Howe wrote:
> The days preceding Friday were beautiful, but on Friday it began to
> rain. It rained on and off in the morning, and by nightfall it was a
> steady downpour. Throughout the night it was heavy. I was awake most
> of the night hoping that it would stop raining so that the riders would
> not have to ride in the rain. At 3:30 a.m. I said to my husband David
> “I’m going to cancel the race.” I was not concerned about the riders
> riding in the rain, but I realized that even if it stopped raining by
> morning, so much rain had fallen that some of the uphill climbs in the
> first loop would become so greasy with over 100 riders that it would be
> dangerous to both rider and horse. There were also a couple of areas
> along the Pacific Crest Trail that were narrow and I was not sure
> whether or not some of those trails would have become unstable, thereby
> creating more dangers. Another consideration was the damage that would
> have been done to the trails themselves by riders running over
> rain-soaked ground. I got up at 3:30 and went to the lodge to call the
> fifth vet that was coming out in the morning to tell him not to come. I
> went to the equestrian center at 4:00 a.m. to talk to the equestrian
> manager (she was going to feed the endurance horses at 4:00 a.m.). We
> discussed the situation and she agreed with me that the trails would be
> dangerous after so much rain.
>
> While it was a disappointing decision to make, it was not a difficult
> one. When weighing the safety of the riders and the damage to the
> environment, against the monetary loss, there was really no choice.
> Initially, some of the riders did not understand the necessity of
> canceling the ride, but after many of the riders returned from riding
> parts of the course on race day (the weather was nice), and relating
> stories of slippery trials, stream crossings up to their horses'
> bellies, mud bogs, etc., the riders realized the dire consequences that
> could have happened had the race not been canceled.
>
> All the riders were given the option of receiving a full refund,
> rolling over their entry money to a future ride, or participating in a
> “fantasy ride.” All of the completion awards had already been
> purchased, as well as awards for the top five best conditioned 25
> milers, and top ten as well as division winner awards for the 50
> milers. The majority of the riders participated in the “fantasy ride”
> because I think they realized what a financial burden canceling a ride
> puts on the ride manager and understood that if ride managers lose large
> sums of their own money on rides, they can no longer afford to manage
> them. The vets even waived most of their fees. Some people left in the
> morning, but the majority stayed for the remainder of the weekend and
> listened to a talk by Dr. Louie Enos, enjoyed the cocktail party at the
> Olympic size hot pool in the afternoon, and had great buffet dinner
> (even many of those receiving refunds or roll-overs stayed). Amazingly,
> 12 hours after the ride was canceled, there were 160 for dinner at the
> awards banquet for the fantasy ride.
>
> The “fantasy ride” was a great success (there were no pulls, no riders
> got hurt, no horses had to be treated). There were lottery drawings
> for the premium awards, and so a couple of the riders received top ten
> awards on their first 50! It was a very festive awards dinner and at
> times there were shouts of “great ride,” “nice job” when someone
> receive their completion award. Everyone got into the spirit of things
> and had a great time.
>
> This weekend reaffirmed my faith and bond in the “great endurance
> family.”
>
> Terry Woolley Howe
> San Diego
hroughout the night it was heavy. I was awake most
> of the night hoping that it would stop raining so that the riders would
> not have to ride in the rain. At 3:30 a.m. I said to my husband David
> “I’m going to cancel the race.” I was not concerned about the riders
> riding in the rain, but I realized that even if it stopped raining by
> morning, so much rain had fallen that some of the uphill climbs in the
> first loop would become so greasy wi5509 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000004263 06456305703 0013121 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.12]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA28762 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:19:25 -0800 (PST)
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From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: Re: What the Mileage has Done
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Bev Ryan
Email: rikan@e-z.net
I purchased my first Arab last January to do endurance. I thought for
sure the first 6 months that he would surely kill me. Had all the
spooking problems, rearing and just about everything you could think of
he would try. This guy will be 11 this year and for 9 years of his
life he was a pasture ornament. Today, just one year later he is a
prince. He did 7 50 mile endurance rides last year, completing 5, and
completing in the top ten of 4. This winter we have taken 3 dressage
lessons, and last week I took him team penning at our local fair
grounds. He is my trusty steed and wouldn't trade him for the world.
Butttttt if you had asked me months ago I was ready to give up on him.
Just to let some of you know that it takes time to build trust and a
lot of patience.
**** Bev, this sounds like you did alot of speed on this horse.
You’ve only had him since January? Who put the base on him? What top
% were you in for the other 3 races? Does he listen on the trail when
asked to slow, follow, or let others go? Was he well trained coming to
you?
****This sounds really fast to me. Once reason I’m a little turned
off on the 50’s. They just keep getting faster and faster. From the
little I’ve seen, of course....
****Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab...”don’t worry kid-o, no way I’m going
that fast if you wanted to! I’ve got some morgan sense!”)....”yeah
Mystery, and bulk too! just keep eating, you pregnant gelding!....”
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id rma026245; Sun Jan 11 21:19:39 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training...Trish & pretty David
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Trish,
Did you go through the roundpen training with David,...I mean, really
go through it?
It is the basis for all additional level work. John L. doesn’t really
cover anymore than the basics, but you cannot skip the roundpen
training or what it means. I think he now has a dressage method, but I
havn't read it.
But the roundpen lessons include: 1. directing David's rate of speed
and turns in the roundpen. 2. directing which way he turns (toward
the fence or to you). 3) follows your cues in the roundpen w/total
attention to you but means it.
It wouldn’t seem these beginning steps are very important to spooking,
but they really are, and teaching the reaction to spooking comes after
the roundpen lesson is very well learned and understood by all parties.
It didn’t click as much with me until I saw a demonstration, and I
understood the reasoning behind it. But when you say it didn’t really
work with you on David’s back, this is what clicked in my brain to ask.
Kimberly
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id rma025271; Sun Jan 11 21:23:57 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training..tap,tap,tap
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
You wrote:
I've been following with interest all the posts re training young
horses,overcoming spooking, and getting them past scary things. I have
a four-year-old I'm bringing along. We go out alone from the house and
encounter manyscary things along the way, including emus (no longer
scary), traffic (morescary to me than to my horse!), cows and other
farm animals, and unknown scarythings when he just stops and I can't
for the life of me figure out what it isthat's causing him to hesitate.
I borrowed from John Lyons' trailer loadingmethods to get him to go by
cows. When he stops, I tap him gently with thedressage whip--tap, tap,
tap--until he moves just one foot. Then I stop. Thentap, tap, tap
again, until he takes another step. As long as he takes a step
forward, he gets rewarded by having the tapping stop. Seems to work.
The worst he does is a 180 degree spin in a millisecond. Once, up in
themountains, he got me off when he saw some deer. Another time, I was
hangingoff the edge and simply willed myself back into the saddle.
Taking dressage lessons (on another horse) with an excellent trainer
has improved my seat tothe degree that I have much more confidence than
I used to. I'm able to stay relaxed and loose most of the time, which,
as others have pointed out, is important. The result is that I try to
look at every obstacle as an opportunity--an opportunity for training
and getting my horse used to things.
When I was looking for an endurance prospect, I intended to get a fully
trained horse. However, when I saw this 3-year-old, I fell in love with
him and decided to take on the challenge. It's been frustrating at
times, but educational and immensely satisfying.
Kimberly wrote:
**** I got introduced to John Lyon’s method of Natural Horsemanship
through the trailer loading video too. It is a wonderful method. I
went further along and learned about his roundpen training and attended
one of his clinics. It was inspiring to say the least and worked
wonderfully for myself and Mystery, plus a few other horses I’ve worked
with including an older newly gelded stallion who was completely ill
mannered and wild. I encourage you to look into this and check it out.
***If any of your friends get Horse&Rider, or if your local library
does, in 1996 they did an article of his in every series. He also has
a web page but not a lot of info on it. His clinic scedule is tight,
but he also has some videos you can rent from tack stores or buy
cheaply thru State Line and such on sell. He is only one “flavor of
NH”, you probably know there are many others.
***Please let me know how your 3 year is doing and the greatest of luck
to you. I wish I had the time and resources to start a youngster. I
could of done it so much smarter with Mystery if I had known sooner
about natural horsemanship methods. I started him at 5 turning 6 from
a wild herd, and he will be 11 in Feb. We've both come a long way.
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab...”yeah, yeah, yeah...that irritating
little tap...sheeze!”)
d myself back into the saddle.
Taking dressage lessons (on another horse) with an excellent trainer
has improved my seat tothe degree that I have much more confidence than
I used to. I'm able to stay relaxed and loose most of the time, wh5512 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002512 06456310376 0013110 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from onramp.micoks.net (onramp.micoks.net [209.153.98.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00900 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 19:41:45 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:40:45 -0600
To: <capape@worldnet.att.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: OOOPs!
In-Reply-To: <19980111172645.AAA12558@default>
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My horses get wheat germ oil every day. I put it in a "honey bear" and give
them a squirt on their oats. They love itnd seem to be thriving.
At 11:29 AM 1/11/98 -0800, Carol Harrison wrote:
>Sorry Steph, I forgot to take the -d out of the address when I posted these
>messages.
>
>Is wheat germ oil ok to use in place of corn oil for adding fat to the
>diet? If so, would it be fed at the same rate or at a lessor amount?
>Since wheat germ oil contains more nutrients than corn oil, would it upset
>the balance in the feed ration?
>
>Thanks,
>Carol
>
>
>
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:41:37 -0600
To: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Price of Horses
In-Reply-To: <12b0eb65.34b90147@aol.com>
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Maybe people are confusing endurance horse prices with show horse prices??
chris paus & star
At 12:28 PM 1/11/98 EST, CMKSAGEHIL wrote:
>I don't know where on this thread the misconception came about that good
>endurance prospects cost so much money! I breed specifically for endurance.
>I also know several other people with similar bloodlines who have produced
>many outstanding endurance horses. Unstarted prospects from QUALITY
ENDURANCE
>LINES and REPUTABLE BREEDERS are out there for $1500-$4000 depending on age,
>etc. The prices being passed around on this thread for prospects is usually
>only commanded by horses that are already well-started and usually have
>already been to some rides. At least that is the case in my area. I'd sure
>like to make those big bucks on horses, too, but it is not realistic to the
>pocketbooks of most of my clientele. Most of us are far more concerned about
>getting our horses into the hands of capable people--we just can't afford to
>GIVE them away for a few hundred dollars, and shouldn't have to. Still, if
>you think we are getting those big bucks, you haven't shopped most of the
>reputable breeders!
>
>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
>
>
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From: Klc5355 <Klc5355@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a484b748.34b99be4@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:28:18 EST
To: Mistabitha@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: e-mail
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Why we're so darn Tired
For a couple of years I've been blaming it on iron poor blood, lack of
vitamins, dieting and a dozen other maladies. But now I've found out the real
reason. I'm overworked!
The population of this country is 300 million. 150 million are retired.
That leaves 150 million to do the work.
There are 100 million in school, which leaves 50 million to do the work.
Of this there are 29 million are government employees ( not including the
armed forces). This leaves 21 million to do the work.
Four million are in the armed forces, which leaves 17 million to do the work.
Take from the total the 14,800,000 who work for the state and city government
and that leaves 2,200,00 to do the work.
There are 1,188,000 in hospitals, so that leaves 1,012,000 to do the work.
Now, there are 91,998 people in prison and 920,000 on welfare.
That leaves just two people to do the work. You and me.
And your just sitting there reading you e-mail...................
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fdd4fbb.34b9a536@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:08:05 EST
To: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: linaments and multi-day rides
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Hi T.. yes my liniment would FAIL the use test.. it contains substances that
are not allowed.. counter-irretents sp -- however we can use all the
alcohol.. and can make a water-alcohol brace and soap leg wraps and put that
on after the day.. and of course good old ice warps with alcohol.. work
great.. but you can freeze a leg very fast.. but it does pull out the heat
fast.. i would limit a cold acholol warp to 10 min max.. then just warp with
standing bandages.. and keep cool during the night..
with cold water and limited ice.. depending how hot the ride was.. and how
the legs look..
roger r
<ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:18:59 -0800 (PST)
From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fdd4fbb.34b9a536@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 00:08:05 EST
To: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: linaments and multi-day rides
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:14:50 -0500
From: JDOWIS <jdowis@pacbell.net>
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I received an e-mail from Cheryl L. Bailey in October and have tried
unsuccessfully to respond four times. Is this someone on ridecamp? If
so please contact me again. Your e-mail return address doesn't work for
me.
Joan Dowis
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 21:42:44 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801120542.VAA06948@fsr.com>
Subject: Truck and Trailer for Sale
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Barney Fleming D.V.M.
Email: endurancevet@msn.com
Wonder what a goog endurance rig is?? Well when you spell like I do its a GOOD rig. See my e-mail of 1/8/98 for description and details. Call 505-546-1115. Don't miss this deal!!
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:36:53 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801120636.WAA10241@fsr.com>
Subject: Trailer and Truck for sale
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Barney Fleming D.V.M.
Email: endurancevet@msn.com
What is a goog endurance rig?? well if you spell like I do its a GOOD rig. See details in e-mail this month under goog endurance rig for sale. 505-546-1115. Don't miss this deal
5519 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003645 06456336171 0013130 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10981 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:47:17 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 22:47:17 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801120647.WAA10981@fsr.com>
Subject: You heard it first on Endurance Net
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: vtci@aol.com
Email: vtci@aol.com
September 19, 1998
Fort Valley, Virginia
Nutramax Labs sponsored Cosequin Challenge '98
FEI Sanctioned Cosequin Challenge International 100 Mile Endurance Event
IAHA Sanctioned National Championship 100 Mile Endurance Event
AERC Sanctioned 100 Mile Open Endurance Event
AERC Sanctioned 50 Mile Open Endurance Event
Our most FAQ: Why was the Cosequin Challenge cancelled in '97 ?
Answer: The lateness in securing required permits from the USFS
would not allow event management to produce the caliber of event
they originally concieved. The upside to this delay, the event will be
bigger in '98 than ever hoped for in '97. The addition of the IAHA
National Championship to the program will no doubt significantly boost
awareness of the event in the endurance community.
The Cosequin Challenge is THE event for all competitors and includes a
"standard" AERC Open 100 & 50 mile event for those competitors devoted
to the grassroot AERC ride.
Visit
http://members.aol.com/vtci
beginning January 26, 1998 for further information, competitor
applications, vendor registration packets and promotional opportunities.
Phone
540.933.6966
Snail Mail
Cosequin Challenge
c/o VTC
792 Boliver Rd.
Fort Valley, Virginia 22652
Watch for this event on your local cable system in October 1998.
Wanted... Techies to operate intranet technology devices during the
event including real time rdbms stat systems broadcasting event results
to the general public attending the event.
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From: arikaras@iafrica.com
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To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE next endurance prospect
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:51:22 +0200
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Hi all ridecampers,
I breed Arab cross Appaloosas specifically for endurance,people are
prepared to pay lots of $ for a sure winner,my pure Appaloosas also win
everything insight,my best appaloosa mare i picked up for peanuts,wee took
a average horse and through the right trainning made her brilliant,lots of
time and money and hard work but well worth our while,my Arab horses come
from a line of endurance winners and there foals will also do
exceptionally well,I keep my stud small and exclusive,do alot of
marketing.Because i believe and have faith in what i do,and breed i get
what i feel they are worth.If one does something and do it properly you
will reap the reward of all the time and effort and endless campaigning,my
horses come first and formost,i build them up slowly over 4 years then i
sell off some of them.My confirmation comes first,also
my horses go to good homes am very carefull who i sell to and i keep an
option to buy all the horses back that i have sold.What was a hobby became
a lucrative bussiness,a time consumming one at that.I am my horses best
ad,when i compete the horse and i put everything we have into it,and also
ride carefully but fast.
Thats just my 2 cents worth from South Africa,Anyway am back in the saddle
after six months of not riding due to back problems,my first ride is this
weekend,will take a youngster and plod along merrily !
Cant wait!
Regards
Kathy,"Shanni" ,"Lightfoot" and "Tuckahoe who is just starting his
endurance career"
p@endurance.net>; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:19:55 -0800 (PST)
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To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE next endurance prospect
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:51:22 +0200
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:28:42 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801120728.XAA12954@fsr.com>
Subject: re:Portable corrals, homemade
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Nina Vasiliev
Email: rmack@inreach.com
I love my PVC porta-corral which my 16 year old son made me. It's made from 2 inch PVC, (I think...when the rain stops I'll measure for sure.) I have four panels approx 4 1/2 feet tall. Each panel has three, nine foot lengths of PVC so there's a bottom, middle and top pipe for each panel. Next he glued together a one inch in diameter PVC pipe approx one foot long which is attached to an elbow joint then a 4-5 inch pipe, an other elbow joint, and then an other one foot pipe. This makes a U shape, one side of which is slipped into the top corner of one panel. The other end of the U, slips into the next panel's corner. I also use the U's to secure the bottom corners of the panels. This holds the panels together pretty well.
Of course if my horse tried to charge the fence, he would probably break thru. But it looks substantial enough that he has happily accepted the corral as his resting place.
Now there is one more step. My son connected rings to the trailer so that the two end panels can be attached to the trailer with a U. I have one ring in the back and one in the front. So, using the trailer as one side of my corral I have a corral which has five sides.
To transport, I lash the panels to my trailer, sitting them on the wheel well.
The corral cost me about a hundred dollars to make. And I'm so happy with it!
Putting the panels together with the PVC glue is a little tricky to get the angles true. The glue becomes fast within 30 seconds. I guess that's why they call it fast :-) We found that having everything sawed to length and laid out in place on a flat surface helped. (For other hints e-mail me.)
I'm just guessing on the sizes. If you want to know exactly, let me know and I'll go out and measure. But how I decided how high I wanted each panel to be, was by bringing a tape measure out to the stable. I measured how tall I wanted it to stand compared to my horse. I also measured how high his stall walls were, etc, to give me an idea of what height would work. Then I walked over to my trailer and measured how long the panels could be while lashed to the side of the trailer. I have a small stock trailer and I measured the straight edge of the side, before it began to curve in the front. That measurement determined how long we made the panels.
I have gotten great use out of this corral. Please contact me if you have any questions.
Nina Vasiliev
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Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:42:51 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield)
Subject: Reassurance for the street-spooky horse
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My husband, an avid hiker, would rather walk than ride despite owning the
old gentleman of the equine world-a 23 year old Appy who has seen and done
a lot. I bought the old fellow for Keith when he complained that I was
away too much riding. It was a good try. The compromise has been that
Keith walks and I ride.
Last year I bought a green Polish Arab. The owner had had trouble with him
and could not sell him as she would decribe his shortcomings to potential
buyers in graphic detail! She was about to sell to the meat dealer when
the farrier suggested I look at him.
Call me a sucker-he came home with me for so many cents on the pound.
He had done almost no road work so when I felt he was ready I asked
husband Keith if he would walk with me a couple of times. It was for my
reassurance but proved a tremendous aid to Riff. Riff hardly knows Keith
but we immediately found he would trundle along very confidently with his
nose right beside Keith's elbow. Keith was concerned for the first hour or
so-he wondered if he was going to be flattened by a shy. So I'd move riff
over and he'd drift right back. Over and back. Over and back. We gave up
and he didn't shy even once. Why bother he had his security-his 'lead
horse'. I really think because Keith didn't 'shy' at dangers the little
gelding developed confidence.
After a few walks I asked Keith to turn and leave us while we continued on.
Riff looked sadly after him, hesitated and continued up the road with
somewhat less aplomb. Did this a few times and we were squared away.
We all know that horses follow the lead horse happily. It seems that
'peopley' horses will follow a human lead 'mare', which I suppose is what
happens when we resort to dismounting and leading past horse-eating
monsters. So why not try it over a few rides. I feel that weaning the
horse off the human lead part way through the trip will develope
confidence. Going out without the human doesn't seem as drastic as when
you attempt to go out without an equine conpanion your horse has grown to
depend upon.
Got a walking or jogging mate or friend? They don't shy and don't chase
dogs- unless you want them to! This method might help with horses like
pretty David who seem to lack confidence and just need to be conditioned
and conditioned and conditioned and.......
And speaking of horses afraid of dogs-I have found my horses became less
fearful immediately after having been taught to chase the dog in
retaliation. We've taught some of the dogs to skulk back into their
driveways when they see us coming. I also carry a pocket full of rocks
heavy enough to throw a fair distance. Country dogs know all about that, too!
Ann
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 04:53:36 CST
From: KC85124@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU
To: ridecamp@ENDURANCE.NET
Does anyone know if there will be a place to sell used tack at the AERC
convention? I have an orthoflex saddle to sell and would bring it if I
had a place to display it for sale or if anyone would be interested in
looking at it. Tried to e-mail AERC office but my e-mail did not go through.
Thanks, Kathy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f8202b5f.34ba1f58@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:49:10 EST
To: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net, rayo@cfw.com
Subject: Re: groundwork vs. riding
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In a message dated 98-01-08 18:53:43 EST, vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu writes:
<< So I would say you need to
evaluate how your horse is behaving with you on the ground - Is he
respecting your "space" or does he just push right up to you. If he
is not respecting your space on the ground then some kind of "natural
horsemanship" work on the ground probably is needed.
Teresa
>>
Well said....
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f2184a0d.34ba231b@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:05:14 EST
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training...Trish & pretty David
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In a message dated 98-01-12 04:03:12 EST, you write:
<< Did you go through the roundpen training with David,...I mean, really
go through it?
It didn’t click as much with me until I saw a demonstration, and I
understood the reasoning behind it. But when you say it didn’t really
work with you on David’s back, this is what clicked in my brain to ask.
Kimberly >>
Dear Kim, you are right--I don't have access to a round pen. JLyons says you
don't actually need a round pen, you can do it on a lunge line, but it is more
difficult. I used the lunge line. David is a perfect gentleman on the lunge
line, whether I am lungeing the old fashioned way, with side reins and all, or
doing JLyons stuff. But I have wondered if the JLyons training would work
better for me if I had a round pen. Cost is a problem. I am trying to scrape
up enough to buy a horse trailer, so I don't have to rely on other people's
generosity to get me to the rides--hard to even start endurancing without one.
In the ideal world, I'll have enough for both trailer and round pen this
spring. We shall see. The dressage seems to be working well--and I can do it
without a round pen. But I'd like to do both.
Trish
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5fe4b58d.34ba2319@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:05:12 EST
To: Susanw@exactimaging.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: RE;Pony prices and training (long)
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In a message dated 98-01-12 02:18:44 EST, you write:
<< I'm keeping your posting for the know it
alls who think I should keep my young horses.>>
Tell them to go ride them! The folks up here who told me I wasn't approaching
David's training aggressively enough all seem to be riding old, broke QHs! My
friend Linda who actually has trained a baby has supported me 100%. In fact,
she told me NOT buy a greenbroke horse! She told me that if I did go ahead
and buy David, I'd get hurt. A month after buying him, on the way to the
emergency room--I thought about Linda's advice!
<<After getting hurt twice this
summer, >>
David hurt me more in the first year I owned him than I had ever been hurt in
20 years of riding.
<<and finding all kinds of excuses not to train,>>
The second summer I owned David I sent him to the racetrack--partly because I
was intrigued with the idea of owning a "racehorse," but in a good part
because it gave me a good excuse to not ride him myself!
<<I'm going to look
for an older horse thats trained. I also found it funny that one of the
people giving me unsolicted advise, turned me down flat when I offered to
let her ride my young ones!. >>
I'm still determined to see it through with David, but next time, I buy a
trained horse!
Trish
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:44:12 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Re all the inquiries about portable corrals:I have a great recipe
for a dirt-cheap and tangle proof stake-out rig,which I will gladly
describe by telephone if anyone wants to call. It's just too much
typing,and would be confusing even if I did type it.Your horse can be on
it comfortably for days at a time,and you can keep it on the trailer for
emergency use anywhere.We Field Trial people use 'em so we can can go off
to a motel without any worry-'course most Field Trial people are
psychologically incapable of worry,but that's another story.I worry if my
animals have so much as a a hangnail,and I feel very comfortable with
this stake-out. I believe stake-outs are not allowed in some
organizations?If that's so,it was no doubt due to some poorly designed
rig causing big trouble. This rig is super,and you get most of the
components free from your local favorite auto mechanic's junk collection.
Ray O. 804 589 1995 EST
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From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:23:10 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: Arabryder <Arabryder@aol.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Formalin??
References: <73f3234a.34b941e5@aol.com>
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Arabryder wrote:
>
> I missed part of the formaldehyde thread but did see mention of formalin.
> I've been using a product called Thrush Buster. Ingredients (in order) are:
> water, isopropanal, formalin, P.V.P iodine complex, gentian violet.
>
> Is anyone familiar with this product? Considering the thread, I'm wondering
> whether I should continue to use it?
>
> Diana
Diana, I've used thrush buster and it's a good product. I doubt if
there's enough formalin in there to harm you unless you're planning on
drinking the stuff---however, wearing gloves would probably be a good
idea (if nothing else, so your hands aren't stained by the gentian
violet), try to avoid the fumes as much as possible and don't wear
contact lenses while you're using it---contacts don't exchange gases
fast enough and fumes can build up behind them and damage or irritate
your eyes.
Susan Garlinghouse
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9a715fbc.34ba38a3@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:37:06 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Price of Horses
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In a message dated 98-01-11 13:30:16 EST, you write:
<< Most of us are far more concerned about
getting our horses into the hands of capable people--we just can't afford to
GIVE them away for a few hundred dollars, and shouldn't have to. Still, if
you think we are getting those big bucks, you haven't shopped most of the
reputable breeders! >>
Sometimes YEARS of careful selective breeding to PROVEN distance horses goes
into the breeding and raising of good prospects. These are the kind of
"prospects" that are far better than average. It is (or should be) a well-
known fact that most horses "Acquire" good traits...fromk behaviorial to
soundness to metabolic. Getting a "cheap" horse MAY get you lucky, but your
risk is far greater than buying a proven blood from someone who has done the
right job in selective breeding and careful upbringing. I agree you never get
back what you have in them (at least financially), but a good horse going to a
good home is part os the consideration...good sales (happy buyers and sellers)
leave good reputations.
teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a031abc.34ba389b@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:36:58 EST
To: guest@endurance.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: NO ROC 98?
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In a message dated 98-01-09 23:34:49 EST, guest@endurance.net writes:
<<
From: debbie zanot
Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
Heard a rumor that there is not going to be a 98 Race of Champions. Anyone
know if it is true or the reasons why?
>>
I no nothing for sure, but sure got me thinking when Susan contacted several
of us vendors to buy out her leftover T-shirts from 1997 (and they did NOT
have the year or location on them).??? Who knows...Susan is always an enigma.
Jerry Gillespie tells me she has been trying for FEI sanctioning for three
years. But, as you and I know, if it is FEI, the SHE will not have the
control SHE wants...BUT, we DO need FEI rides in light of the new FWEI
qualification standards. Your guess is as good as mine...BTW, looks like the
OD will be FEI!!!
Teddy
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From: "Beth Glace" <lb@nismat.org>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:17:01 +0000
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Subject: (Fwd) ride food and diabetes
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I am really hesitant to attempt this one since diabetes is not my
area, but I'll give you some of my thoughts. Let me start by saying
that if you are insulin dependent you should discuss this with your
diabetes specialist, since exercise will require some fine juggling
of your insulin to maintain blood sugar level. You'll likely need
to increase the food you eat, particularly carbohydrates, before
during and after exercise and/or decrease your insulin dosage.
Self monitoring of blood glucose during the ride will be necessary.
Some guidelines are:
1. do not exercise if fasting glucose is >250 and ketosis is present
or if glucose is >300 mg/dl.
eat additional carbohydrate if glucose is <100 mg/dl
2. experiment with exercise to see how blood sugar responds to a
given exercise bout. During training rides, try to
replicate the types of foods you will have available during a
competitive event. Closely monitor how your blood sugar responds to
the exercise, and experiment by following your body's response to
various foods. You don't want to be out in some remote spot when
you realize that you are not able to control your blood sugar.
3. if blood sugar is dropping below 100 during the ride begin
eating carb sources. You may want to have with you a variety of
foods that are absorbed at various rates: power bars, or a trail mix
with some nuts and seeds, which have a lower glycemic index and are
absorbed more slowly, candy or dried fruits which have a high
glycemic index, and both plain water and a sports drink. Stick with
the plain water if blood sugar is high, if blood sugar is moderately
low try the power bar or sports drinks to maintain energy, and keep
the high glycemic index foods for times when carb is needed QUICKLY,
like when you are about to bonk.
I again STRONGLY urge you to speak to your specialist and to a
dietitian that works exclusively with diabetic patients. They
will be able to formulate more specific and more useful advice. The
American Diabetic Association has a web site and you may want to see
what educational resources they offer. They may also be able to
refer you to a nutritionist who specializes in exercise in diabetics.
The American Dietetic Assoc. also has a referral service and you may
want to try to reach them at 312-899-0040.
Good luck Beth Glace, MS
Sports Nutritionist
y need
to increase the food you eat, particularly carbohydrates, before
during and after exercise and/or decrease your insulin dosage.
Self monitoring of blood glucose during the ride will be necessary.
Some guidelines are:
1. do not exercise if fasting glucose is >250 and ketosis is present
or if glucose is >300 mg/dl.
eat additional carbohydrate if glucose is <100 mg/dl
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From: "Snodgrass, Bonnie" <snodgrab@ncr.disa.mil>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Beginners Conditioning Questions
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:36:00 -0500
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Here where I live in southern MD the terrain is pretty much flat.
We do have a few trails that have short and steep bits on them
but the majority of the local trails are pretty flat. There's
also lots of dirt/gravel farm and forest roads. (Of course the
vast majority of rides in this mid-atlantic area are in the
mountains.) My riding options right now are very slippery forest
trails, roads with good footing but definitely harder surfaces
and a large indoor arena. My week day rides are limited by
daylight to pretty brief (1hr) hacks either road trotting or
sliding on slippery trails or doing arena work in the indoor. On
weekends I can trailer to local forests for longer and harder
rides on better footing but still not really hilly. I am now
conditioning my 8 yr old Anglo-Arab mare for her first LD ride,
the OD No Frills 25 in April. Most Mid-Atlantic area rides are in
the mountains of course.
1- Can I get my horse fit enough doing only one long training
ride a week?
2- Starting around March I'll trailer once a week up to the
mountains for real hill work. I could probably get in about 4 of
these training rides (18-20 miles) before the No Frills. Will
this plan be fair to my horse physically?
This mare was not just a pasture ornament before I bought her.
She evidently had lots of trail miles with previous owner but did
have a slack year just before I traded for her. She came from a
hilly region and seems competent and comfortable on steep hills.
3- I can ride 6 days a week if I want, typically ride 5 times. I
am right now doing a fairly moderate ride on Sat and a long ride
on Sun with Mon and possibly Tues off. Is this a good weekend
plan (my feelings) or can I put in two long rides on the weekend?
Any advise appreciated. Please post to entire list if possible as
I know there are lots of beginners out there with the same type
of questions.
Bonnie Snodgrass
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:40:42 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
CC: Arabryder <Arabryder@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Formalin??
References: <73f3234a.34b941e5@aol.com> <34BA355E.701@worldnet.att.net>
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For a thrush remedy I have used hydrogen peroxide, the kind you buy at
the drug store. It's cheap and it works great. I buy the big bottles and
transfer the liquid into an old "ThrushX" bottle.
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:00:30 -0500
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: bolton@pbhs.brevard.k12.fl.us (Rae)
Subject: Hoof hardener and Thrush
It has been so wet here in FL that my horses feet are in the worst
shape I have seen in a long time. One of them has become very
tenderfooted. I saw where someone mention Formaldrahyde the other day for
drying hooves. A long time ago, I remember someone telling me about using
copper something-or-another.....not kopertox.....but the chemical compound
of copper with something.....and I think you mix it with water and put it
on the bottoms of their feet to toughen them? Does anyone know what I am
talking about? If so what is the compound and does it work? Thanks.
RAE
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:01:49 -0500
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: bolton@pbhs.brevard.k12.fl.us (Rae)
Subject: Oconee WMA 25/50
Can anyone tell me something about this ride? Terrain? Rough?
Rocks? Hills/Mountains?? It is in White Plains, GA on Feb 28. My husband
and I are trying to make this ride, but would like to know more about it.
Thanks. Rae
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Portable corrals, homemade
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:16:14 -0800
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We've had good luck with the Horse'N Around corrals - easy to=20
put together, plus lots of little widgets for the system such
as saddle racks, bucket hangers, canopies. Good service as
well. They have a web page at http://www.endurance.net/horsenaround/
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: guest@endurance.net [SMTP:guest@endurance.net]
Sent: Sunday, January 11, 1998 11:29 PM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: re:Portable corrals, homemade
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Nina Vasiliev=20
Email: rmack@inreach.com
I love my PVC porta-corral which my 16 year old son made me. It's made =
from 2 inch PVC, (I think...when the rain stops I'll measure for sure.) =
I have four panels approx 4 1/2 feet tall. Each panel has three, nine =
foot lengths of PVC so there's a bottom, middle and top pipe for each =
panel. Next he glued together a one inch in diameter PVC pipe approx =
one foot long which is attached to an elbow joint then a 4-5 inch pipe, =
an other elbow joint, and then an other one foot pipe. This makes a U =
shape, one side of which is slipped into the top corner of one panel. =
The other end of the U, slips into the next panel's corner. I also use =
the U's to secure the bottom corners of the panels. This holds the =
panels together pretty well.
Of course if my horse tried to charge the fence, he would probably break =
thru. But it looks substantial enough that he has happily accepted the =
corral as his resting place. =20
Now there is one more step. My son connected rings to the trailer so =
that the two end panels can be attached to the trailer with a U. I have =
one ring in the back and one in the front. So, using the trailer as one =
side of my corral I have a corral which has five sides.
=20
To transport, I lash the panels to my trailer, sitting them on the wheel =
well.
The corral cost me about a hundred dollars to make. And I'm so happy =
with it!
Putting the panels together with the PVC glue is a little tricky to get =
the angles true. The glue becomes fast within 30 seconds. I guess =
that's why they call it fast :-) We found that having everything sawed =
to length and laid out in place on a flat surface helped. (For other =
hints e-mail me.)
I'm just guessing on the sizes. If you want to know exactly, let me =
know and I'll go out and measure. But how I decided how high I wanted =
each panel to be, was by bringing a tape measure out to the stable. I =
measured how tall I wanted it to stand compared to my horse. I also =
measured how high his stall walls were, etc, to give me an idea of what =
height would work. Then I walked over to my trailer and measured how =
long the panels could be while lashed to the side of the trailer. I =
have a small stock trailer and I measured the straight edge of the side, =
before it began to curve in the front. That measurement determined how =
long we made the panels.
I have gotten great use out of this corral. Please contact me if you =
have any questions.
Nina Vasiliev=20
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:13:23 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801121813.AA02206@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net, Trishmare@aol.com
Subject: re: training thread
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Trish,
I think you are very wise to do the dressage lessons. Base level dressage
is very well rooted in horsemanship (with 100's of years of history to
back it up.) But the most important thing is working with a good instructor.
A good instructor in almost any horse field will know how to relate to
both horses and riders. They have seen and worked with a lot of horses
and riders, which gives them a heck of an advantage compared to most
of us who have ridden just a few horses for several years each.
>The dressage seems to be working well--and I can do it
>without a round pen. But I'd like to do both
Cheers,
Teresa
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'RUN4BEAR'" <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: NO ROC 98?
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:23:52 -0800
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What are the new FWEI qualifications standards?
Steph
control SHE wants...BUT, we DO need FEI rides in light of the new FWEI
qualification standards. Your guess is as good as mine...BTW, looks like the
OD will be FEI!!!
Teddy
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Message-ID: <34BA647E.45D66FDA@flash.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:44:14 -0600
From: "Michael K. Maul" <mmaul@flash.net>
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Subject: Ride managers PLEASE READ - Online Ride calendar information
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Ride managers,
Russ and I "clone" last years rides as a starting point for the next
years online calendar.
This means that if there was additional info sent to either Russ or me
for the 1997 ride -
that is the info that is in the description/directions for the 1998
version.
Please take a look at your ride if it has been sanctioned this year and
will appear
in the Endurance news.
You can reach the online calendar at
http://www.doublejoy.com/rides/idc/ridesCUSTOM.idc?
or
http://www.doublejoy.com/rides/idc/rideshome.idc?
Since things like loop info, ride vets, directions, etc. may change -
please let me know at
mmaul@flash.net
with your current information. If I do not hear from you - I will
assume the information
remains current.
Thanks,
Mike
mmaul@flash.net
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:43:29 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801121943.LAA14271@fsr.com>
Subject: Stone Bruising/Hoof Hardeners (Long)
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Barb Peck
Email: bpeck@us.ibm.com
Thank you all for your replies....
I live in Northern Vermont, were the weather can change at the drop of a hat. We get about 30-40 inches of rain a year... with two or three mud seasons thrown in. Moisture fluctuations in the hoof (expansion, contraction, etc)
and fungus infections (I call it Big Nail Hole Syndrome) causing loosening shoes is quite common in suseptible horses (as are other fungal problems associated with humidity).
I don't have a choice in the
geography I ride on and the
weather can be wetdrywetdry- mud mud in the summer.
Dripping koppertox on the
clinches solved my horses
fungus-in-the-nail-holes problem (as Lotrimin AF killed the fungus causing tail rubbing).
This Keratex Hoof hardener is
a patented Cross-linking agent (you chemists will understand this in depth) which basically means the molecular bonds are re-arranged so that they are
different, and much stronger.
They can never re-arrange themselves back the way they were, and hoof or sole has to be cut off to remove the cross-linked horn.
This is a whole *new* concept
much different than Iodine, Venice Turp, formaldehyde etc for hardening.
I just wondered if any of you
had tried it yet.
I'm gonna try it on my most ouchy-footed horse this summer, and I'll post my opinion to the list then.
I did find a website at
www.horseshoes.com/prdsrvbb/pransrbl.htm which addresses this product.
Thanks again for all the responses. This is a great site.
Barb
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:50:02 -0800
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I'd like some feedback from AERC members - and ride managers,
on the existing completion time rule, and the desirability of an
exception to it.
The current rule (5) states (briefly) that competitors are allowed
12 hours for 50 miles, 24 hours for 100, and so on according
to the time/mileage chart. This includes all hold time.
I am *considering* proposing an exception to this rule, and would like
pro & con feedback from the membership. The proposed exception
would provide an 'escape clause' for ride managers to use when
extenuating circumstances prevent a rider, or riders from finishing
in the alloted time. Something like:
"Ride managers may, at their discretion, grant _completion only_
(no points or placing) to riders who complete the course, but do
not finish within the allowed time, due to extenuating circumstances."
Extenuating circumstances would include
1. weather and 'acts of God' - snow, rain, ice, earthquake :)
2. emergency relief acts - rider A spends 2 hrs helping rider B who is injured, and
rider A goes on to finish the course overtime.
4. unforseen trail conditions - sabotage, downed trees, landslides, wash-outs
The reason I feel that an escape clause is desirable is
that the existing rule is -in reality- not strictly adhered to. It puts
ride managers in bad situation. Their options are to
1. Not give completion under any circumstances if a rider finishes over the
allowed time.
2. Resanction the ride, (rule 1.3.1) after the fact, as a longer course. This is allowed if
last minute changes to the trail were made, and the result is a longer
course.
3. Fabricate the results, so that those riders who managment feels 'should' have
credit, finish on time.
The latter recourse is often chosen - and condoned. And I personally
have chosen it and condoned it in some circumstances.
...so doesn't that make it a 'bad' rule? If it's frequently broken, but
most feel that breaking it might be the right thing to do?
I'm not really fanatic about this, but the situation has been
bothering me a little bit for a long time. Both managers and
riders may suffer under the existing rule, but probably the ones
who are harmed the most are the managers.
The bottom line (IMO) is that without volunteer ride managers, AERC doesn't
have rides, and without rides, there is no AERC. The organization
currently does very little, (other than giving info and guidelines
and advertising through EN) to support ride managers. If we can
give managers a little more power and flexibilty by giving them a
'legal' option to an uncomfortable and fairly prevalent situation,
then we benefit as an organization.
Of course this exception could be abused, but then so can most
aspects of an endurance ride (mileage accuracy, course marking,
leniency in granting 'fit to continue' completion, etc). We have to
assume that the ride manager will 'do the right thing' in all
other aspects of managing a ride, and therefore should
assume that the manager will 'do the right thing'
regarding overtime exceptions, and not grant completion if it was
not warranted.
whew!
lemme know if any of you have strong opinions one way or the other..
Steph
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From: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:11:25 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Endurance Chat
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Hello,
I just opened a new Chatroom on Talkcity. If anyone is interested is
chatting go to Talkcity, click on rooms and go all the way down to the
end of the page where you can put the name of the room in. Then just
tipe Endurance. I hope some people here like to chat.
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From: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:17:44 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Barrel racing sattel
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Hello,
I want to start some Endurance riding this spring. My husband was so
sweet to offer me his 3 yr. old Arabien/mix gelding to try it on, since
my horse is a Quarterhorse and i heard that they are not very good for
Endurance. I never tried Endurance riding before and don't want to spend
a lot of money on special tack before i find out if I like it or not.
Right know I use a 20 lbs. heavy barrel racing sattel on my Quarterhorse
mare. Will that be good enough to start Endurance on my husbands
Gelding?
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: re: training thread
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:15:39 -0700
Message-ID: <01bd1f9f$3be27580$838287cf@willard>
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I was finally able to take several dressage lessons last fall from an =
instructor who didn't look down on my Paint for not being TB. It was so =
amazing. It was like all the stuff we had been fighting all summer =
finally made some sense. Such as posting the trot-I was working so hard =
at trying to do all I had read about that I was working too hard to feel =
what it was supposed to be like. Kristen put Buddy on a longe line and =
kept him going and let me work on my trot and it was just like a =
lightbulb.=20
Now I can trot longer than 2 minutes and still breathe. Amazing! I =
haven't been able to afford any lessons over the holidays but am hoping =
to start again in Feb. If I ever win the lottery-I am going to hire her =
full time just for me. Now we need to work on adapting what we are =
learning in the ring when it is just us- to working that well out on the =
trail with others. =20
Carrie and Buddy
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>I was finally able to take several dressage =
lessons=20
last fall from an instructor who didn't look down on my Paint for not =
being=20
TB. It was so amazing. It was like all the stuff we had been =
fighting all summer finally made some sense. Such as posting the =
trot-I=20
was working so hard at trying to do all I had read about that I was =
working too=20
hard to feel what it was supposed to be like. Kristen put Buddy on =
a longe=20
line and kept him going and let me work on my trot and it was just like =
a=20
lightbulb. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Now I can trot longer than 2 minutes and =
still=20
breathe. Amazing! I haven't been able to afford any lessons =
over the=20
holidays but am hoping to start again in Feb. If I ever win the =
lottery-I=20
am going to hire her full time just for me. Now we need to work on =
adapting what we are learning in the ring when it is just us- to working =
that=20
well out on the trail with others. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Carrie and Buddy</DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:04:35 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Katja Halfmeyer <halfmeyer@cc.ucsf.edu>
Subject: sports saddle
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Hello there,
I want to sell my sports saddle that I LOVE to ride in, but did not fit the
prominent withers/ swayed-back horses I tried it on.
As far as I recall the saddle is 15" seat-size, it has some extra rings
that are VERY handy, the stirrups are set back and it's of black color
altogether.
I'm around 5.6 feet/150 pounds and I had a blast riding in this saddle, it
is a shame to give it away! I only had that pleasure for three rides and
some training miles, might even sell the seat-cover with it, it is of grey
sheep-skin and worked so well for me.
The prize should be around 650,-
Anyone out there, who is interested? I'm located in the Bay area, San
Francisco, California.
Please e-mail me privately, I'm on the digest-version and don't want to
fill up the list at all!
Katja
<all bummed>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:31:48 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801122231.AA02222@cody.unavco>
To: simimaus@webtv.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Barrel racing sattel
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Hi Simone,
You can not do any endurance riding on a horse less than 48 months
old, so you may have to try it on your QH or wait another year. Any
saddle that is comfortable for horse and rider works great for endurance;
so if the barrel saddle fits the horse real well it should work - you can
help by using a real good pad underneath - (something which combines some
shock absorbtion with a breathable liner like wool fleece.) Depending
on how hot your rides will be a QH can often be better for the Limited
Distance (25 mile) endurance rides because they are naturally calmer -
so they may recover faster while many of the arabians are snorting in
excitement until they've gone at least 25 miles. <g>.
Teresa
>
> Hello,
> I want to start some Endurance riding this spring. My husband was so
> sweet to offer me his 3 yr. old Arabien/mix gelding to try it on, since
> my horse is a Quarterhorse and i heard that they are not very good for
> Endurance. I never tried Endurance riding before and don't want to spend
> a lot of money on special tack before i find out if I like it or not.
> Right know I use a 20 lbs. heavy barrel racing sattel on my Quarterhorse
> mare. Will that be good enough to start Endurance on my husbands
> Gelding?
>
>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 04:41:54 -0600
From: Roger or Debby Stai <rstai@flash.net>
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Subject: nylon bridles
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Anyone know of a company or catalog that I can find a really well-made
nylon halter/bridle combination? So many of the ones I see in our local
tack stores are poor quality. Thanks so much, Debby in San Antonio, Tx
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:49:14 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
CC: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
References: <01BD1F58.9A33A1A0@seahorse.fsr.com>
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Steph,
I like your proposal. I've not run into an incident in which I wished
I had the flexibility clause YET, but I say BRAVO to you for putting
together something that makes total sense. Ethics determine so much of
what we do or don't do. It will be the same with this clause, I believe.
You have my vote.
Sincerely,
Deena Meyer, Mgr.
FLORIDA ENDURANCE CLASSIC 100/50/25
Carlmey@citrus.infi.net
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From: "Donna O'Gara" <dlogara@concentric.net>
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To: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
CC: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Steph Teeter wrote:
>
> lemme know if any of you have strong opinions one way or the other..
>
I'm not a member, but I ride AERC rides occassionally, and I think
you're definitely right about this one. If the rule is regularly broken,
it shouldn't be there.
--
Donna O'Gara < dlogara@concentric.net >
Donna's Mutual Linking Association
One link page on your site
Hundreds of links to you. Free.
http://www.correlationsystems.com/links/
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:03:00 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Hi Steph,
You raise an interesting point: When does ride management have the
authority to grant completions to riders who fail to meet the
requirements of AERC Rule 6? (Note: Rules 5 & 6 are cited below for
your info.)
Instead of a new rule, you might turn to AERC Rule 6.1 for the answer:
"A competitor must pass all veterinarian criteria for completion; a
competitor who fails any of the other completion criteria [of Rule 6]
should be pulled from Top Ten placing but may be allowed a completion,
if in the opinion of ride management, the violation was not intentional
and did not result in making the course easier or shorter."
The last sentence is clear: "... if in the opinion of RIDE MANAGEMENT,
the violation was not intentional and did not result in making the
course easier or shorter. (Emphasis added.)" The plain language of the
rule says the ride manager's authority is unilateral and not need any
other approvals.
I supose there are some who might argue that going over-time regardless
of the reason was an intentional act and therefore excluded from the
ride manager's authority. However, this line of reasoning probably
doesn't pass logical muster. I'll try to explain with an a few
examples.
At the recent Las Vegas Ride some of us stopped to assist MaryBen who
had broken her knee in a fall. It took almost an hour to get her
stabilized, to splint her leg and to arrange transportaion to the
hospital. Our INTENT there was to help a fellow rider, not to purposely
violate a rule.
Another example might be a ride using a trail for the first time.
Suppose this winter ride had eight hours of daylight. Ride management
assumed that all riders would finish before dark. Accordingly, ribbons
when put out at daytime seeing distances and no provisions for
glowsticks were made. In mid-ride management realizes a few riders are
moving along at a 12 hour pace (which is their right under AERC Rule
5.2). Management also realizes that because of the exceptionally rugged
terrain, it's too late to mark turns with glowsticks or ribbon the last
part of the trail for riding in darkness. Many riders got lost in the
blackness but eventually found their way to the finish, cold and
hungery, but across the line.
These riders had the right to assume the trail will be reasonably marked
for low light conditions. Ride management failed to meet these
expections. Should they be penalized for a manager's error? Rule 6.1
give ride managers the right to avoid such an unfair result.
I know that some might say that this could get way out of hand. The
answer to that concern is that although this rule has been on the books
for a long time, it is seldom used. Further, completions are filtered
though the ride manager's exclusive discretion. If the ride manager
abuses her discretion, then the regional sanctioning director certainly
has the power to consider past acts in granted future approvals. (Opps
I forgot, you now wear both hats!)
Anyway, these are not official AERC policies, just my personal lunchtime
thoughts about your note. Back to barn....
Ramey
Misc Quotes:
AERC Rule 5 states:
5. The ride must provide a specific amount of time (total competition
time) which will include all stops and holds, and within which
competitors must complete the ride to qualify for placing or completion.
5.1 There may be no minimum time limit for completion.
5.2 Total competition time will be according to the following
prescription: 6 hours for 25 miles, 12 hours for 50 miles, 24 hours for
100 miles, and other distances to be according to the chart in Appendix
A.
5.3 Riding time is the time used by the competitors to complete the
course, excluding all hold times, and is the time used for AERC ride
results.
5.4 There must be a pre-designated marked finish line perpendicular
across the trail.
AERC Rule 6 states:
Completion requires meeting all of the following criteria:
a. All riders and mounts must be present and accounted for at the start
of the ride.
b. Properly entered in the ride.
c. Obeying all the rules.
d. Following the prescribed course, and doing multiple loops in the
correct order.
e. Passing all control points.
f. Passing vet check requirements
g. Finishing within the prescribed maximum tine.
h. Not being disqualified.
i. Meeting criteria at post-finish-line check.
j. Meeting any other criteria prescribed by ride management
k. Not having been paced or prompted by an unentered, withdrawn, or
otherwise unauthorized equine, vehicle, or a person other than another
entrant. This does not preclude the ordinary support services of
attendants or pit crews. A crew may accompany their rider down a public
road in a support vehicle (unless there is a ride management prohibition
against it) provided they do not push or haze the equine.
was not intentional and did not result in making the
course easier or shorter. (Emphasis added.)" The plain language of the
rule says the ride manager's authority is unilateral and not need any
other approvals.
I supose there are some who might argue that going over-time regardless
of the reason was an intentional act and therefore excluded from the
ride manager's aut5552 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000006347 06456520517 0013126 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mallard.duc.auburn.edu (mallard2.duc.auburn.edu [131.204.2.23]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA28926 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:03:37 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:01:46 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
X-Sender: bartesc@mallard
To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Osceola 25/55/100 results
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980112164311.1691A-100000@mallard>
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Here are the unofficial results from the Osceola ride held Jan. 10th, 1998
in the Osceola National Forest. It was FUN!
25 mile ride: 30 started, 20 finished. there were 2 pulls for Lameness,
8 for rider option. No BC awarded.
1. Joe Baker Touch
2. Lisa Salas Odd Todd
3. Diana McLemore Dugan
4. Jerry Sowders Gideon
5. Kim Williams Mystique Image
6. Doron Matmore Al Nur
7. Tomas Fusezi Cherebasque
8. Barbara Charron Anemone
9. Bob Ellis Lace
10. Nick Sloan Telico Star
11. Alycin Hayes Zarrs Aprilfancy
12. Carol Thompson Prides Mountain King
13. Nancy Cloos Mohammed Rose
14. Nora Mask Myorka-Doc-Tucker
15. Joy Bostram Captiva
16. Charlotte Ladevic Chinook
17. Larry Dodd Swann
18. Mike Charron Sultans Avalanche
19. James Treece Cha-Cha JR!!
20. Ginny Cohenour Annie JR!!
55 mile race. 22 started 17 finished. 5 pulls, mainly for lameness. No
metabolics.
1. Valerie Kanavy High Winds Jedi 5h 36m BC!!
2. Wendy Maddingly Pieraz 5h 36m
3. Jan Stevens Sugar Creek Majic 6h
4. Connie Andrews Silk Khemona 6h
5. Bud Davidson Sirocco Czortan 6h
6. Sue Losier Sir Lancelot 6h
7. JoAnn Baker MHB Nepenthe 6h 15m
8. Jerry Fruth Jabask Knight 6h 20m
9. Mike Caudill Tok of the Town 6h 41m
10. Connie Caudill SA Reyms Pride 6h 41m
11. Catherine Whiteacre Faran 6h 47m
12. Christine Hite Storm 6h 57m
13. Lawton Johnston Dawn's Michigan 7h 24m
14. Pat Sager Windsong's Naema 7h 24m
15. Laura Nielson Full Sail 7h 55m
16. Robert Thompson Irish Blaze 7h 55m
17. Anne Ayala Overlook Nuryev 7h 55m
100 mile race 14 started, 10 finished. 4 pulls for lameness
1. Bill Wilson Alamann 12h 40m
2. Amy Yatsko Gallant Legacy 12h 40m
3. Terry Nance Jetalongs Mandate 12h 40m
4. Lois McAfee K Tiki Streak 12h 40m
5. Karen Pruett Gentleman Jack 13h 35m BC!!
6. Kathy Armstrong Roy 13h 39m--first 100
7. Fred Beam Deja Vue 13h 39m --first 100
8. Vicki Doler Midnight Challenge 14h 42m
9. Claude Brewer King Tzar Warrior 17h 17m
10. Jessie Jarrett Nicholas Scamper 17h 17m--JR!!--first ride
ever!
Any typoes are my fault. Look for official results in EN!
samm bartee
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Received: (from toriandsteve@juno.com)
by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SxZ15704; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:04:35 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:59:41 -0800
Subject: Pendleton Challenge etc
Message-ID: <19980112.145944.3230.1.ToriandSteve@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 5-6,14-16,18-19,27-28
From: toriandsteve@juno.com (Victoria A Thompson)
Does anybody know if the Pendleton Challenge will be held this year? I
think someone on Ridecamp said they thought it might be run for the last
time in April or May, but I haven't heard anything since. This is the
best ride in S. CA for a new horse and Lord knows Taffy doesn't need a
difficult first ride. If the ride manager isn't able to put it on
anymore how about finding someone to take over the position!
New subject. I ride in an Aussie saddle with the over girth. Does
anybody know if a string girth is made for those Aussie saddles? The
only girth Taffy doesn't get nasty over are the Western string ones. I
haven't found one in any of the on-line Aussie catalogs, but I may not
have hit them all. Taffy is a very opinionated horse and I'm getting
tired of being nagged at whenever I try to tighten the girth. I've tried
them all and the only kind she'll stand still for are the string ones.
Help.
Thanks mucho (see, those 2 years of high school Spanish did pay off!)
Tori - battening down the hatches as another storm rears its ugly
head.
PS - For all you folks that live back East, you'll have to pardon us
Southern Californians for the griping we're doing about all the rain (7
whole inches so far!!). We are the ones that should be listening to you
moan. All that snow and ice and no power, and you all sit there quietly,
patiently waiting for things to change. How noble. While we in LaLa Land
pitch a fit over a little water. Well,....get used to it! Seriously, I
hope the worst is over for you and that no serious damage happened to
anyone.
Keep warm. T-
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:12:23 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Becky Hackworth <bechack@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
>
>Your vet may have some bulk formaldehyde in the back room for preparing tissue
>specimens for pathology samples. If not, he or she can probably order it for
>you. You can also get it from chemical supply houses.
>
Terpentine does the same, and is much easier to get your hands on.
>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:11:41 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801122311.AA02228@cody.unavco>
To: step@fsr.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Steph,
I really cant see the point of changing the rule unless mileage points
would be given . Surely no ride manager would feel badly about giving
the sweat-shirt, coffee-mug or other completion award to someone they
felt had earned a completion in spite of being over time. The real
problem is if two rides are vandalized, some people get lost on
each ride and therefore end up over time, and manager A "fudges" the times
so people get completions and points but manager B says "well you've
certainly earned the award but since you are over time I have to say you
didn't complete on the form for AERC".
Teresa
>>>"Ride managers may, at their discretion, grant _completion only_
(no points or placing) to riders who complete the course, but do
not finish within the allowed time, due to extenuating circumstances."
>>>>
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Received: (from rides2far@juno.com)
by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SSD29649; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:11:26 EST
To: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Reassurance for the street-spooky horse
Message-ID: <19980113.040541.3830.6.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <3.0.32.19980111234221.0069dc34@nocdc.bc.ca>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.15
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:11:26 EST
On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:42:51 -0800 keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield)
writes:
>but we immediately found he would trundle along very confidently with
>his
>nose right beside Keith's elbow. Keith was concerned for the first
>and he didn't shy even once. Why bother he had his security-his 'lead
>horse'. I really think because Keith didn't 'shy' at dangers the
>little
>gelding developed confidence.
I found that when I had a horse that didn't like to go out alone, it
helped to take my dog. Even though the horse was not particularly fond
of the dog, the dog got in front and trotted down the trail, and a horse
will apparently follow anything.
Angie and Kaboot, (who like to extend and see if he can bite their tail)
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Received: (from rides2far@juno.com)
by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SRY29649; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:11:26 EST
To: snodgrab@ncr.disa.mil
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Beginners Conditioning Questions
Message-ID: <19980113.040541.3830.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801121648.IAA01962@fsr.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.15
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:11:26 EST
On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:36:00 -0500 "Snodgrass, Bonnie"
<snodgrab@ncr.disa.mil> writes:
> Here where I live in southern MD the terrain is pretty much flat.
>
> 1- Can I get my horse fit enough doing only one long training
> ride a week?
DearBonnie, the question we need to know is, are you telling the
absolute truth about how much you ride? The problem is, that those of us
with quite a few miles are all lying about how much we ride. You sound
like you're conditioning about like I was on my first horse. I rode 5
days a week and he went lame before his first ride.
>
> 2- Starting around March I'll trailer once a week up to the
> mountains for real hill work. I could probably get in about 4 of
> these training rides (18-20 miles) before the No Frills. Will
> this plan be fair to my horse physically?
This should put you well ahead of most of the 25's and some of the 50's.
>
> This mare was not just a pasture ornament before I bought her.
> She evidently had lots of trail miles with previous owner but did
>
> have a slack year just before I traded for her. She came from a
> hilly region and seems competent and comfortable on steep hills.
I used to manage the Tennessee 25,50 & 100. I watched a horse from the
flatlands of South Carolina win the most mountainous 100 in the
Southeast.
>
> 3- I can ride 6 days a week if I want, typically ride 5 times. I
> am right now doing a fairly moderate ride on Sat and a long ride
> on Sun with Mon and possibly Tues off. Is this a good weekend
> plan (my feelings) or can I put in two long rides on the weekend?
My guess is that if you don't overtrain, you'll do great. By the way,
I'm assuming you don't plan to loose your mind and take off with the
idiots up front.
I can see now that I need to hurry up and publish my book. I have an
article in which I translated all these training programs you read into
laymans terms. I just can't reprint everything. :)
Angie McGhee Who has done everything wrong AT LEAST once.
> Any advise appreciated. Please post to entire list if possible as
>
> I know there are lots of beginners out there with the same type
> of questions.
>
> Bonnie Snodgrass
>
>
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:10:23 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:50:02 -0800, Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com> wrote:
>lemme know if any of you have strong opinions one way or the other..
Strong opinion? Moi?
I thought the fixed & mandated time-limit rule was a bad rule when it
was first adopted, and I've seen nothing to cause me to change my
mind. While I was a Director I tried several times to provide an
escape clause or to get some flexibility in the rule for extraordinary
circumstances, but was never successful.
I will support you in any way I can, but unless attitudes on the
Board have changed you have an uphill fight.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
ation: MTI Internet Services
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:50:02 -0800, Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com> wrote:
>lemme know if any of you have strong opinions one way o5559 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003246 06456522537 0013134 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from consider.theneteffect.com (consider.theneteffect.com [206.202.56.3]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA02567 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:20:55 -0800 (PST)
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Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:18:39 -0600
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:18:39 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Roger or Debby Stai <rstai@flash.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: nylon bridles
In-Reply-To: <34B9F34D.68F@flash.net>
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> Anyone know of a company or catalog that I can find a really well-made
> nylon halter/bridle combination? So many of the ones I see in our local
> tack stores are poor quality. Thanks so much, Debby in San Antonio, Tx
Yep, sure do! Santa brought us one of these beauties from BMB
(1-888-BMB-TACK). The whole thing is double thickness and
double-stitched, the edges and all holes are neatly finished, and the
hardware appears to be of good quality. It's very easily adjustable, and
the Arab size fits Lakota just fine. They also have a HUGE color
selection.
Has anyone ever ordered anything from this company before? I just got a
catalog a few months ago (naturally I immediately delivered it to Santa,
yellow post-it notes scattered about :), and was very impressed with the
visuals and descriptions. Sounds like they make really good stuff. I
know the halter/bridle combo I got seems to be very well-made. Ask me
next year how it actually held up!
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:27:47 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Roger or Debby Stai wrote:
>
> Anyone know of a company or catalog that I can find a really well-made
> nylon halter/bridle combination? So many of the ones I see in our local
> tack stores are poor quality. Thanks so much, Debby in San Antonio, Tx
Try Griffin's:
Griffins Endurance Tack
PO Box 248
Darby, MT 59829
Phone: 406-821-3126
Fax:
Email:
Home Page:
Custom made canvas and Nylon Tack for endurance and
trail riding.
Handcrafted in Darby, Montana.
They have some nice nylon combos for $24.95
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Completion times
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:33:11 -0700
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Ride Camp:
Steph thought I should share with you my reply to her query on the
completion time rule so here it is.
Yes, I am quite biased about this modification to the rules. Initially
because it has been in effect for a considerable period of time and has
caused no problems for ride managers. Second, while I concur with your
observation that the rule is violated at times, the real losers are those
who think they benefit by it. They have not met the criteria for completion
yet get the false credit. The true completers know they did the job!
Third, why must we always make exceptions!!!
This last reason is the one that concerns me the most. Is it our (AERC)
responsibility to lower the standards so no one will feel the sting of
defeat?? This factor of defeat is what made Endurance Riding! You do not
win every time. This is real life, not the false one every one is trying to
promote. Not the Lake Wobegon life where every one wins!!
I have encountered every exception you have listed and so have many others
and we do not whine.
I strongly oppose any modifications to the rules that make it possible for
"exceptions".
I strongly oppose any ride manager who "modifies the rules" for exceptions.
I strongly oppose any thing that makes completing an endurance ride easier.
THE NAME OF THE GAME IS ENDURANCE
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Of course I am from the old school (20 + years of endurance) and am not
used to asking for special provisions.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:35:05 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Victoria A Thompson <toriandsteve@juno.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Aussie string girth
In-Reply-To: <19980112.145944.3230.1.ToriandSteve@juno.com>
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> New subject. I ride in an Aussie saddle with the over girth. Does
> anybody know if a string girth is made for those Aussie saddles? The
Well, Glenda The Catalog Hoarder is once again responding. :) Can you
tell how much I enjoy looking through tack catalogs?!
Libertyville Western Rider, current edition, p. 32, has 6 girths for
Aussie saddles, of which 4 are string. 1-800-872-3353
Glenda & Lakota (hey, put that catalog down and come brush me some more!)
an 1998 15:37:48 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Victoria A Thompson <toriandsteve@juno.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Aussie strin5563 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002500 06456526351 0013115 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from pimaia2y.prodigy.com (pimaia2y.prodigy.com [198.83.18.95]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA05886 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:53:08 -0800 (PST)
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:47:23, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: MS BERET
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For those of you who were interested my GREAT black bay Polish gelding, he
is not available anymore! He is going to Deb Leader in Ohio and I think it
is a perfect match. Y'all in the Ohio area better watch out this spring :>
as he's a great endurance horse! Thanks for all of your interest; we are
now concentrating on our Russian horses now and breeding FA AL BADI+/ to
outside mares...have two Muscat granddaughters for sale...
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
Home of FA AL BADI+/ (I'm BABSON Egyptian!)
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From: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Reply-to: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 15:54:54 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: AERC Convention
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.29 (Unregistered)
I will take this space to invite all to the AERC convention in Lexington,
KY. The Australian Connection will be there and as an added bonus they
will have copies of the old 1997 No Hands Bridge Calendar. These should
be free for the ask ing. Now that No Hands Bridge is open we can look at
those pictures with the pride of knowing that our vocal efforts to get it
repaired have not been to no avail. For those of you who have never seen
this landmark on the American River (and Tevis) this will be your chance
to have some really very nice historical pictures of the west!
----------------------------------------------------
Raymond Santana
Network Operations
UC Davis Medical Center
Sacramento, CA
rtsantana@ucdavis.edu or
raymond.santana@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Completion times
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:23:32 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:33:11 -0700, "Robert J. Morris"
<bobmorris@rmci.net> wrote:
...
>This last reason is the one that concerns me the most. Is it our (AERC)
>responsibility to lower the standards so no one will feel the sting of
>defeat?? This factor of defeat is what made Endurance Riding! You do not
>win every time. This is real life, not the false one every one is trying to
>promote. Not the Lake Wobegon life where every one wins!!
This is not about lowering standards ... it's about recognizing that
not all trails are of equal difficulty, and that sh*t happens,
including severe weather conditions. A rider who takes thirteen hours
under severe conditions has *endured* far more than one who takes
eleven hours on a flat cakewalk. And, if we need arbitrary means to
provide defeat, why not just roll the dice for every rider at the
finish line, and everyone who's dice comes up an odd number is pulled?
>I have encountered every exception you have listed and so have many others
>and we do not whine.
>I strongly oppose any modifications to the rules that make it possible for
>"exceptions".
>I strongly oppose any ride manager who "modifies the rules" for exceptions.
>I strongly oppose any thing that makes completing an endurance ride easier.
>THE NAME OF THE GAME IS ENDURANCE
Yes, and that was the name of the game when ride managers had the
authority to set the allowed completion times according to conditions.
This rule was passed to stop the abuse promulgated by *two*
individuals. Just as high-profile cases make bad law, this
over-reaction by the AERC to a specific problem has caused, IMO, far
more harm than good.
However, it is your opinion that has always prevailed on the Board,
which is why we are still stuck in that arbitrary straightjacket.
Oh, a clarification: I do not agree with allowing extra time to
individual riders (such as those who stop to help another rider). The
time should IMO be adjusted for trail conditions (especially weather)
or a general blockage, but it should be adjusted equally for everyone.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:37:20 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801130037.QAA11099@fsr.com>
Subject: Osceola National Forest:Osceola l00
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Jean Wonser
Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
The permanent horse trails in the Osceola were about as wet as they get as flood levels are comparable to l977 according to The National Weather Service. Nevertheless the trails were planned to periodically re-enter the Forest Service Roads which are basically sand-with clay and lime mix, some being harder, some softer but seldom covered with water.
The yellow trail was re-routed somewhat to avoid two areas with constant water about mid cannon. This left about three stretches with periodic water spots involving approximately 2,3,and 2 miles; This loop adds the challenge of a creek crossing called Robinson Branch which must be crossed as tagged or risk swimming. Two shetland ponys made the crossing however and were seen in Camp after the ride.
Balance of the mileage on each of the three loops was either Forest Rd. or jeep trail;
The Red loop of l8.5 miles had the following approximate intermitant water mostly mid cannon or less: 2,2,2,2 miles; One of the areas that was nearly constant will be rerouted for l999 if conditions are similar;
Blue loop of l8.5 miles had three stretches of mid cannon or less water as: 2,2,2 miles. The middle 2 miles was nearly constant and is planned to be re-routed for The Osceola l00 in l999.
I hope this gives some insight into the challenge of riding on the edges of real wetlands, the Okeefeenokee Swamp in GA. The Osceola is just a heartbeat away to the South. During the dry months of the year (mainly September and October; April and May) the place can be so dry there is no water for the horses on trail.
Naturally there is an art form to riding in water this much. I have submitted an article for Horse and Pony in Florida about some of my personal observations which some of you may enjoy. A rider from KY told me Sunday he had a great time riding The Osceola and could not have envisioned what it would be like.
Water improves sand making it mostly hard. We have some sand that is mushy but nothing to compare to southern clay. Under normal conditions the trails are grassed in. I expect it will take most of the year for the trails to recover from the beating taken from 4x4's during this wet hunting season.
All riders survived and nobody even saw a gator! Come see us at Panther Run November 8, l998 the one weekend out of hunting; and The Osceola second weekend of January l999, first week out of deer season.
I will not try to give the results as the trail design is my area;
Jean Wonser, Trenton Florida
CPF Carrera & CPF Zywy
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:40:51 -0600
To: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>, Susanw@exactimaging.com
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: RE;Pony prices and training (long)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Surely older horses are a better bet than green horses, but not alwasy.
Star was 10 when I got him last year. I have ridden my older horse Cisco
for 12 years and in that time have fallen off of him only ONCE. I've fallen
off of Star more times than I can count in the short year we've been together.
I think part of it is familiarity. I knew Cisco's gaits and knew how he
felt under me. He is very powerful and strong (a Morgan), but slow and even
pokey sometimes. He also has along back, so his gait is kind of ambling.
Star has a short back, long legs and is very quick. I fall off because I
haven't caught up with him. He can stop on a dime and I'm still in
mid-post. I'm getting better though. We are together more now. My riding
coach said, "Cisco is the old comfortable Cadillac and Star is the sports
model Ferrari."
Now that I understand how quickly he moves, I am riding with him instead of
behind him and it makes all the difference. I just had to gear up myself!
The Aussie saddle helps! Yesterday he had a big jump because the dogs made
a bunch of noise in soem tin in a dump. they chased out a rabbit adn Star
leaped sideways. The poleys did their job, and I stayed on!
chris paus & star
At 09:05 AM 1/12/98 EST, Trishmare wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-12 02:18:44 EST, you write:
>
><< I'm keeping your posting for the know it
> alls who think I should keep my young horses.>>
>
>Tell them to go ride them! The folks up here who told me I wasn't
approaching
>David's training aggressively enough all seem to be riding old, broke QHs!
My
>friend Linda who actually has trained a baby has supported me 100%. In fact,
>she told me NOT buy a greenbroke horse! She told me that if I did go ahead
>and buy David, I'd get hurt. A month after buying him, on the way to the
>emergency room--I thought about Linda's advice!
>
> <<After getting hurt twice this
> summer, >>
>
>David hurt me more in the first year I owned him than I had ever been hurt in
>20 years of riding.
>
>
><<and finding all kinds of excuses not to train,>>
>
>The second summer I owned David I sent him to the racetrack--partly because I
>was intrigued with the idea of owning a "racehorse," but in a good part
>because it gave me a good excuse to not ride him myself!
>
> <<I'm going to look
> for an older horse thats trained. I also found it funny that one of the
> people giving me unsolicted advise, turned me down flat when I offered to
> let her ride my young ones!. >>
>
>I'm still determined to see it through with David, but next time, I buy a
>trained horse!
>
>Trish
>
>
>
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From: JERRY BARFIELD <barfield@primenet.com>
To: "'RIDECAMP'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Prospects/Prices/etc
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:21:28 -0700
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Most every opinion has been expressed on this subject, but I wanted to =
add my bit for all to consider.
1) Based on what it cost me to feed, worm, vaccinate, and take care of =
feet, that $100 weanling will have cost you $5850 by the time he is 5 =
-assuming that you never had to call the vet and have the ability and =
knowledge to do all training yourself. (If you figure out how to get a =
baby through 5 years without doing something that requires vet treatment =
please let me know) This option assumes that you either have a horse to =
ride for the next five years or that you have much more time than money.
2) The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would =
not lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect. The =
high croups and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes =
are not what get you to the other side of the mountain and back. Not to =
mention the long cannon bones required for the height that sells in the =
show ring.
3) Development and conditioning are very important in this sport, but =
the better raw material is going to yield a better end product. You can =
make a usable knife from rock, but the steel version works much better =
and lasts longer.
4) If you are going to go to a breeder for your horse, look for one =
that has a program based on generations of using horses-one outstanding =
individual does not make a program and does not materially increase the =
odds that the offspring will have the good qualities that you are =
looking for, but a program that for generations has produced horses with =
predominately good performance qualities greatly increase the odds of =
those being passed to the offspring.
5) If you are willing to pay for the "made horse', look to the rider, =
trainer, or breeder with a record of longevity in their horses. I would =
feel much better about the long term prospects of a horse purchased from =
someone who finished in the top ten for 5 years on the same horse than I =
would buying from the regional champion who rode a different horse every =
year, especially if the horses from the past years where never heard =
from again.
6) If you want to play the lottery you should be prepared for the very =
real chance that you did not get the winning ticket. You might be the =
lucky one; however, almost all of the riders that I know of in my area =
that bought "bargain" horses have probably spent more time (and money) =
with the vet, farrier, and riding back to base camp in trailers than =
they have on rides.
7) Price, per se, does not guarantee a good horse: however, if you buy =
a prospect from a program or individual with a good track record I =
believe you greatly improve your chances and you are usually going to =
pay for the knowledge and time devoted by the breeder/seller.
8) My comments are somewhat more applicable to those who want to =
compete rather than just finish: however, I believe they would also =
apply to those who would like to finish on the same horse for the next =
15 years rather than start over every few years. Each of you will have =
to make your decision based on your personal situation and desires, I =
just wanted to point out that the purchase price is only a small part of =
the costs involved-don't forget time, follow-on expenses, and possible =
disappointment. =20
9) For those who buy an older horse from whatever source-unless you =
know the background do not assume that the hard tissues have been =
developed for endurance riding. These horses still need a lot of LSD to =
be ready to go fast, even if the heart, lungs, and muscles are ready, =
chances are the tendons and ligaments are not. If you are willing to do =
competitions at a moderate pace, you can certainly start much sooner =
than with a young horse, but don't assume that strong muscles and good =
recoveries mean the horse is fit to race.
=20
Jerry Barfield
Southwind Arabians
Breeding Endurance Horses by Design
Member: Al-Marah Breeders Alliance
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:51:19 -0600
To: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>,
"'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
In-Reply-To: <01BD1F58.9A33A1A0@seahorse.fsr.com>
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I think it might be a good change. A ride I did last fall, two women
rescued a dog in the woods that had followed the riders and collapsed from
exhaustion. It took them extra time to locat the dog's owner and then get
back on the trail and get to camp. They were heroes for the day.
chris paus & star
At 12:50 PM 1/12/98 -0800, Steph Teeter wrote:
>I'd like some feedback from AERC members - and ride managers,
>on the existing completion time rule, and the desirability of an
>exception to it.
>
>The current rule (5) states (briefly) that competitors are allowed
>12 hours for 50 miles, 24 hours for 100, and so on according
>to the time/mileage chart. This includes all hold time.
>
>I am *considering* proposing an exception to this rule, and would like
>pro & con feedback from the membership. The proposed exception
>would provide an 'escape clause' for ride managers to use when
>extenuating circumstances prevent a rider, or riders from finishing
>in the alloted time. Something like:
>
>"Ride managers may, at their discretion, grant _completion only_
>(no points or placing) to riders who complete the course, but do
>not finish within the allowed time, due to extenuating circumstances."
>
>Extenuating circumstances would include
>1. weather and 'acts of God' - snow, rain, ice, earthquake :)
>2. emergency relief acts - rider A spends 2 hrs helping rider B who is
injured, and
>rider A goes on to finish the course overtime.
>4. unforseen trail conditions - sabotage, downed trees, landslides, wash-outs
>
>The reason I feel that an escape clause is desirable is
>that the existing rule is -in reality- not strictly adhered to. It puts
>ride managers in bad situation. Their options are to
>1. Not give completion under any circumstances if a rider finishes over the
>allowed time.
>2. Resanction the ride, (rule 1.3.1) after the fact, as a longer course.
This is allowed if
>last minute changes to the trail were made, and the result is a longer
>course.
>3. Fabricate the results, so that those riders who managment feels
'should' have
>credit, finish on time.
>
>The latter recourse is often chosen - and condoned. And I personally
>have chosen it and condoned it in some circumstances.
>
>...so doesn't that make it a 'bad' rule? If it's frequently broken, but
>most feel that breaking it might be the right thing to do?
>
>I'm not really fanatic about this, but the situation has been
>bothering me a little bit for a long time. Both managers and
>riders may suffer under the existing rule, but probably the ones
>who are harmed the most are the managers.
>
>The bottom line (IMO) is that without volunteer ride managers, AERC doesn't
>have rides, and without rides, there is no AERC. The organization
>currently does very little, (other than giving info and guidelines
>and advertising through EN) to support ride managers. If we can
>give managers a little more power and flexibilty by giving them a
>'legal' option to an uncomfortable and fairly prevalent situation,
>then we benefit as an organization.
>
>Of course this exception could be abused, but then so can most
>aspects of an endurance ride (mileage accuracy, course marking,
>leniency in granting 'fit to continue' completion, etc). We have to
>assume that the ride manager will 'do the right thing' in all
>other aspects of managing a ride, and therefore should
>assume that the manager will 'do the right thing'
>regarding overtime exceptions, and not grant completion if it was
>not warranted.
>
>whew!
>
>lemme know if any of you have strong opinions one way or the other..
>
>Steph
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:54:06 -0600
To: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Barrel racing sattel
In-Reply-To: <199801122117.NAA08950@mailtod-121.bryant.webtv.net>
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Hi. I started out in a barrel racing saddle, but have gone through 11 other
saddles, western and english endurance and all purpose types.
The most important thing is how the saddle fits your horse -- you are going
to be on its back for a long time. And how it fits you. My barrel saddle
caused cramps in my feet, my legs and bottom ached after more than 2 hours
in it!
If it works for you, fine. I've seen people compete in all kinds of tack,
even bareback. But don't be surprised if it makes you sore.
The weight of the saddle isn't as important as how well it fits. I had a 12
pound saddle, that caused sores on my horse and was horrible for me. Iknow
ride an 18 pound Aussie saddle that fits us both very well.
chris paus & star
At 03:17 PM 1/12/98 -0600, Simone Jordon wrote:
>Hello,
>I want to start some Endurance riding this spring. My husband was so
>sweet to offer me his 3 yr. old Arabien/mix gelding to try it on, since
>my horse is a Quarterhorse and i heard that they are not very good for
>Endurance. I never tried Endurance riding before and don't want to spend
>a lot of money on special tack before i find out if I like it or not.
>Right know I use a 20 lbs. heavy barrel racing sattel on my Quarterhorse
>mare. Will that be good enough to start Endurance on my husbands
>Gelding?
>
>
>
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Message-ID: <34BACADE.1177@cyberg8t.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:01:19 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
Reply-To: Lynne@Glazer.org
Organization: Lynne Glazer Microsystems
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To: Victoria A Thompson <toriandsteve@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
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>Does anybody know if the Pendleton Challenge will be held this year? I
think someone on Ridecamp said they thought it might be run for the last
time in April or May, but I haven't heard anything since. This is the
best ride in S. CA for a new horse and Lord knows Taffy doesn't need a
difficult first ride. If the ride manager isn't able to put it on
anymore how about finding someone to take over the position!
Terry announced at the Warner Springs ride meeting that the Pendleton
ride would be held April 25, for the last time because Susan Gibson,
ride manager (who was also in attendance) was moving along with her
military husband.
If the ride were ever to be held again, the ride mgr or spouse must be
in the military, dunno whether it has to be an officer or not, since it
takes place on the military reservation.
Lynne
and Rem-member Me, who needs to tippy toe in the ocean and do this ride
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Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:28:37 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:27:42 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Simone Jordon <simimaus@webtv.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Barrel racing sattel
In-Reply-To: <199801122117.NAA08950@mailtod-121.bryant.webtv.net>
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Simone Jordon wrote:
> I want to start some Endurance riding this spring. My husband was so
> sweet to offer me his 3 yr. old Arabien/mix gelding to try it on, since
> my horse is a Quarterhorse and i heard that they are not very good for
> Endurance. I never tried Endurance riding before and don't want to spend
> a lot of money on special tack before i find out if I like it or not.
> Right know I use a 20 lbs. heavy barrel racing sattel on my Quarterhorse
> mare. Will that be good enough to start Endurance on my husbands
> Gelding?
It will if it fits your husband's horse. It would also help if you find
it comfortable enough to ride long distances in, but this is not
ABSOLUTELY necessary :).
kat
Orange County, Calif.
p.s. I have a mare that I a riding/training for endurance right now, and
the only saddle I have that fits her is a 50 lb, 50 year old, barrel
racing saddle. Having a saddle that fits properly is far more important
than a few extra pounds....and since I don't own this mare, I am NOT going
to go out and buy a new saddle to fit a horse that I don't own. She does
just fine carrying my old Heiser. ...and I keep my hand planted FIRMLY on
that horn when we come to water crossings (since she has a tendency to
jump into them (: ).
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:21:24 PST
Hi Steph,
I think Ramey's argument is sound. We already have a rule to deal with
the overtime situation. It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but, to
me, it seems clear.
The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of
courses we have. And, it seems in some cases, there is a great
variation of the number of feet in a mile. Here in our area, there are
5,280 ft. per mile. That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over 4
hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win. Granted, sometimes
there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are
miscalculated. But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage
accurate.
On a really tough course, with two vet holds, it is really easy to be
pushing the 12 hour envelope. The suggestions of other ride managers,
and many riders, seems to be "just make the course shorter, no one will
ever complain about a course that is too short". Well, I just don't
think this is right.
In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the
rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. Then
if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,
etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
rule.
We have particular problems with LD rides. Because, when you include
the hold times in the total 6 hours they get, this magnifies the speed
they are actually doing on the course compared to the longer distances.
Let's say you have 2 vc's in your 25-miler and your 50-miler. At 1.5
hours total hold time, the 50's must average 4.76 mph but, the 25's must
average 5.55 mph. while they are on the trail. The 25's have to "go
like h..." to meet the cut-off. This is not in keeping with my
philosophy of the purpose of LD.
I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more discussion.
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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From: Keeyun <Keeyun@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ce739d36.34bae7d4@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:04:35 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Weird trot
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Ok this may sound really wierd but I am having a problem and I do not know if
it is me or my horse. My horse trot just fine when we are doing a slow
relaxed trot. but when he goes into his extended trot strange things happen.
As i am posting I can feel my upper body twisting. Mostly it is my right
shoulder that is twisted forward. No matter what I do I can not seem to be
able to stop my shoulder from doing this. I had not problem with my other
horse. Just wondered if anyone has expierenced anything like this. Could it
be that he is using his front more than his back end. I have noticed that he
is really right sided. He is better on his right diagonal than his left.
Therefore I have been trying to ride his left diagonal a little more. Any
ideas I would be greatful. I am doing my first 25 in feb. and would really
like it I did not have to do the whole thing feeling like I was sitting in a
blender.
Thanks in advance.
Kelly
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:40:03 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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Make an appointment with am equine chiropractor.
Lauren
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:00:08 -0700
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Linda and Ride Camp:
I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire rule
61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not those
finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!! Ramey , you should know better!!
<<The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of
courses we have>>
This is the name of the game, meet the challenge and endure. No one said
the bear in the cave you enter would be in a good mood!!!
<<Then if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really
bad, etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
rule.>>
This is ENDURANCE RIDING, not a therapy session to make every one feel
good. Adversity builds character and personal strength. These excuses, and
they are really excuses, would be a crutch for those with out strength,
with out the ability to take things as they occur. If I do not finish a
ride it is MY fault, not the fact there was not enough time, the trail was
mismarked, the weather was bad etc. IT WAS MY FAULT AND I DO NOT NEED AN
EXCUSE!!!
<<> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more
discussion.>>>
Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This is
ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have every
thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding was
not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is "if
I don't finish I will complain".
Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
> From: Linda Van Ceylon <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 8:21 PM
>
> Hi Steph,
>
> I think Ramey's argument is sound. We already have a rule to deal with
> the overtime situation. It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but, to
> me, it seems clear.
>
> . And, it seems in some cases, there is a great
> variation of the number of feet in a mile. Here in our area, there are
> 5,280 ft. per mile. That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over 4
> hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win. Granted, sometimes
> there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are
> miscalculated. But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage
> accurate.
>
> On a really tough course, with two vet holds, it is really easy to be
> pushing the 12 hour envelope. The suggestions of other ride managers,
> and many riders, seems to be "just make the course shorter, no one will
> ever complain about a course that is too short". Well, I just don't
> think this is right.
>
> In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the
> rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. Then
> if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,
> etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
> rule.
>
> We have particular problems with LD rides. Because, when you include
> the hold times in the total 6 hours they get, this magnifies the speed
> they are actually doing on the course compared to the longer distances.
> Let's say you have 2 vc's in your 25-miler and your 50-miler. At 1.5
> hours total hold time, the 50's must average 4.76 mph but, the 25's must
> average 5.55 mph. while they are on the trail. The 25's have to "go
> like h..." to meet the cut-off. This is not in keeping with my
> philosophy of the purpose of LD.
>
> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more discussion.
>
> Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
> Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> 2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
> 970-226-1099
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:19:36 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
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To: Lynne@Glazer.org
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
References: <19980112.145944.3230.1.ToriandSteve@juno.com> <34BACADE.1177@cyberg8t.com>
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Lynne Glazer wrote:
>
> >Does anybody know if the Pendleton Challenge will be held this year? I
> think someone on Ridecamp said they thought it might be run for the last
> time in April or May, but I haven't heard anything since. This is the
> best ride in S. CA for a new horse and Lord knows Taffy doesn't need a
> difficult first ride. If the ride manager isn't able to put it on
> anymore how about finding someone to take over the position!
>
> Terry announced at the Warner Springs ride meeting that the Pendleton
> ride would be held April 25, for the last time because Susan Gibson,
> ride manager (who was also in attendance) was moving along with her
> military husband.
>
> If the ride were ever to be held again, the ride mgr or spouse must be
> in the military, dunno whether it has to be an officer or not, since it
> takes place on the military reservation.
>
> Lynne
> and Rem-member Me, who needs to tippy toe in the ocean and do this ride
Lynne,
Before Susan Gibson (no connection to ROC Susan Gibson) took over the
Pendleton Ride, it was managed (I believe) by the base commander who was
into horses. After he left, there were several years when the Pendleton
was not run. Susan has managed it for several years and is a member of
the Chaps and Britches Riding Club on the base. Even those her husband
is a major and she is a very highly placed civilian employee at the
base, she still has a difficult time dealing with the base in getting
them to commit to the use of the various trails. It is always a big
hassle for her. There is no one else in the riding club who is into
endurance, so it would be very difficult to get anyone to take over who
would have access to the base command to get permission to establish a
course, getting the military to help with road crossings, volunteers to
get on base to help mark trails, etc. And she always has a heck of a
time on race day getting volunteers from the base who she can count on
to help. It would be real difficult to find someone who could fill
Susan's shoes who has all the connections to get the job done. So this
probably will be the last year since Susan and Chip are due to be
transferred in August.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:19:36 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:20:57 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>, "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
Cc: <suendavid@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Stone bruises & hoof hardeners
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:26:29 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd1fdb$6bbd2a20$LocalHost@duncanfl>
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I believe white line disease is a symbiotic relationship between a fungus
and a bacteria, and is not the same as thrush. I don't have any references,
and I am may have been dreaming about this. Anybody else? The problem with
treating is getting something up into the crevice - gravity is not your
friend.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Angela C. McGhee <rides2far@juno.com>
>O.K. Heidi, long as you're on this one, and I guess I sorta got this
>formaldehyde thing going. I'd like your opinion on this.
>
>There's been lots of what folks are calling "White line disease" coming
>and going around here. The old timers say it's simply a form of thrush
>that attacks the hoof wall. Two years ago, almost overnight it seemed
>all my unshod horses (the ponies) were stricken with it and you could
>literally run a hoof pick up to an inch in the seperation around their
>white line. My vet had me soak cotton in iodine and glycerine and pack
>it up in there. It was messy, time consuming and took forever to work.
>
>This year I saw it coming on again. Some people seem to think it goes
>with weather patterns. Whatever, I painted it with formaldehyde. I
>figured that would kill anything that liked moisture. Bingo. It was
>gone faster than I could have imagined. Know anyone else who is using
>this? Was it disappearance a coincidence? One case on a neighbor's
>horse was fairly advanced. Another neighbor had a farrier who trimmed
>away all the damaged hoof and that mare was out of commission much
>longer.
>
>I'd appreciate your input. (Or anyone else's)
>
>Angie McGhee and Kaboot (think I'll just keep my shoes on thankyou)
>>
>>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>>
>>
>
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d432806a.34bb0a2d@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 01:31:08 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: NO ROC 98?
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NO ROC this year..
and as you all know by now Susan's new husband just died suddenly this past
weekend..
I have known Susan for about 20 years.. since the OD100 in 78..
I like to think of her as my friend.. even though at times I was not sure..she
is well-- just Susan.. a bit different then most..
She has gone through alot .. many good times.. but many more problems.. and
she survies-- I hope she manages this one ..
MY prayers are with her...
Roger R
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Message-ID: <34BB0B07.1C12@cyberg8t.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:34:48 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
Reply-To: Lynne@Glazer.org
Organization: Lynne Glazer Microsystems
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To: twhowe@inetworld.net
CC: Lynne@Glazer.org, ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
References: <19980112.145944.3230.1.ToriandSteve@juno.com> <34BACADE.1177@cyberg8t.com> <34BAF968.FC9@inetworld.net>
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Terry,
>>It would be real difficult to find someone who could fill
Susan's shoes who has all the connections to get the job done. So this
probably will be the last year since Susan and Chip are due to be
transferred in August. <<
I understand. I had quoted part of Tori's message without delineating
the quote properly, which inquired about whether the ride was to be held
and how much she liked it for new horses.
Personally haven't been able to do the ride, for the usual reasons that
a person without a rig has, but THIS year is different. :)
And I do understand about the military angle, after spending 11 years in
both the active Army and National Guard, leaving as a captain on the
major's list. Seems like another lifetime ago, now I only
(occasionally) command my horse.
Lynne
and Rem-member Me (11th on the Fantasy 50)
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 01:17:55 CST
From: Kathy <KC85124@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject: easy boots, saddle, misc.
To: ridecamp@ENDURANCE.NET
Have one 00 ez boot for sale or trade for size 1 or 2. It has never been
used but has been cut down in back and spray painted silver. Also have
2 slightly used size 0's for sale or trade for size 1 or 2. I'll have them
at the AERC convention if anyone is interested in trading. I really don't
want to go to the trouble or expense of shipping them. My orthoflex saddle
I'm taking to sell at the convention is a cyclone trainer model but without
the large flaps and inskirt rigging. It looks like a western cutting saddle
without the horn. Has a padded seat and cordura padded fenders. Size 16"
seat and only used a few times. English rigged with neoprene girth and
padded stirrups. I'm asking $950 for it as I bought it last year for $1250.
Also have two camlock stirrup buckles is anyone is interested in them I'll
bring them to the convention as well. I might be interested in trading my
saddle for an orthoflex with a smaller seat size. See you at the convention.
Kathy Crothers Fayetteville, Ar.
mp@ENDURANCE.NET>; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:32:23 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Wilcocks, Carol" <cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Chondroitin Sulphate
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 98 15:20:00 PST
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Hi All,
Sorry to ask this again, but I lost the info I had before due to someone
'cleaning' out the folder it was in!? (And I thought I was fanatical!?) The
question I ask is would anyone who sent me info on Chondroitin Sulphate,
please repost me privately? Is this the same as Adequan or Cosequin? Tom
Ivers, you told me what it is sold as here in Australia-lost that post too! I
have a friend whose horse is underweight, and although not in hard work, just
gentle rides, she is worried he may be in pain due to arthritis in his knee.
He mostly does not seem to be lame except after heavy work, and she just
wants to see him happy and pain free. A friend told her he should be put
down, but as he does not seem to be stressed, she is reluctant to do this. H
edoes not look really thin, either, just a little under, and he IS an older
horse. Any other suggestions (he's had blood tests, teeth, flexion etc. done
by the vet, but this vet is not familiar with CS) would be most appreciated.
TIA,
Carol and the gang.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:50:45 -0700 (MST)
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To: mrwallet@key-net.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Re: NO ROC 98?: Current Status
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Greetings!
A request for resanctioning the ROC for 1998 has been submitted by the Ride
Manager. Due to previous problems with the management of the ride, the
Special Sanctioning Committee Chair, Barb McCrary, has asked the AERC Board
of Directors to decide on resanctioning at the annual meeting in Kentucky,
which they have agreed to do. If you have comments on this, let your
Directors know.
Happitrails!
Brad.
>PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
>You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>
>From: debbie zanot
>Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
>
>Heard a rumor that there is not going to be a 98 Race of Champions. Anyone
>know if it is true or the reasons why?
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 4: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 18: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
* Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride * (Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55
(Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home, Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-6: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Walden,
CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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From: "Snodgrass, Bonnie" <snodgrab@ncr.disa.mil>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: MD Horse Expo, Feed samples, Arnica liniment
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 07:46:00 -0500
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I spent some time at the Horse Expo in Timonium MD this last
weekend. I talked to several feed vendors. Bob Walsh had told me
about a feed being made by Pennfield that Jeannie Waldron
collaborated on. I found the Pennfield booth and got a sample and
catalog with full info on all of their feeds. The Enduroevent
Ener-G #80607 has 10% min protein, 10% min fat, 15% max fiber,
calcium .80% min, phosphorus .40% min, zinc 104 ppm, selenium .54
ppm, Vit. E 64 mg/lb. Major ingredients are flaked corn and beet
pulp. Bob's been very happy with the weight gain of his hard
keeper on this food.
I also talked with the Buckeye rep about two feeds, their Equine
Energy and Endurance-101. She recommended the extruded Equine
Energy for endurance horses. It is 12% min protein, and a
whopping 25% min fat. I've got their brochure too.
I bought an arnica liniment gel called Sore No-More from A Drop
in the Bucket. The gel is a little easier to control with your
hands but needs to be warmed first to not be globby. I've been
using it on my knee and it seems as effective as doses of
Ibuprofen in reducing inflamation. They also sell a liquid
liniment. Phone number (203) 863-1900. So N0-More is made by
Equilite, Inc of Ardsley, NY.
Bonnie Snodgrass
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:21:20 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>Hi Steph,
>
>You raise an interesting point: When does ride management have the
>authority to grant completions to riders who fail to meet the
>requirements of AERC Rule 6? (Note: Rules 5 & 6 are cited below for
>your info.)
>
>Instead of a new rule, you might turn to AERC Rule 6.1 for the answer:
>"A competitor must pass all veterinarian criteria for completion; a
>competitor who fails any of the other completion criteria [of Rule 6]
>should be pulled from Top Ten placing but may be allowed a completion,
>if in the opinion of ride management, the violation was not intentional
>and did not result in making the course easier or shorter."
>
At the ride I ran in 96, we had a sever problem with trail vandlism. While
all trails were affected, much of the 25 mile trail had ribbons removed.
When I heard of the problem, I went out serching for people and got them on
trail and on their way home. There were several that were over time. We
used our discretion (as I interperted it from rule 6 and gave completions).
While the head vet was a little annoyed with this, I thought it to be in
the purview of ride management to make this decision.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:22:47 -0600 (CST)
To: fourhorn@fea.net, Keeyun@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Weird trot
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Dear Blender, Take a look at the angle and lenght of the rear feet. Just
an idea, your farrier may have him set wrong, not balanced. Jerry
Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT and dring out from the
Osceola 2000 meter free style. Yech!!!
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:33:44 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: Beginners Conditioning Questions
>
>DearBonnie, the question we need to know is, are you telling the
>absolute truth about how much you ride? The problem is, that those of us
>with quite a few miles are all lying about how much we ride.
Angie, Angie, don't give away the secrets! Let the rookies learn them the
way we did. As one young lady,all us South Easteners know an love said, "I
condition that sucker the first 25 miles for the race the last 25."
While that may be a little extreme, over riding may be as big a problem as
under riding. There is absolutely noting wrong in using rides as part of
the conditioning program.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Steph Teeter" <step@fsr.com>
Cc: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:01:08 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd203c$75c65260$LocalHost@patfred>
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Steph,
I feel that the completion time rule you are proposing is a good idea.
Don't think that you can spell out the extenuating circumstances though.
Possible the wording could be similar to this. Extenuating circumstances
would include,( but not be limited to the following): The final decision
should be at Ride Managers descretion. If specific things are named, there
is always some strange thing that breaks the rule.
We need to remember why most of us do this sport. It is an Endurance Riders
(we are a strange breed!) idea of fun. We call it relaxation? We also
enjoy the socialization with other, down to earth, horse people. The
endurance people always give me a sense of extended family.
We are not out there to improve ourselves, per se, or to build character, at
least I'm not.
Hope to see a lot of you at Convention in Kentucky. Stop & say hello.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: 'ridecamp@endurance.net' <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 12:47 PM
Subject: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>I'd like some feedback from AERC members - and ride managers,
>on the existing completion time rule, and the desirability of an
>exception to it.
>
>The current rule (5) states (briefly) that competitors are allowed
>12 hours for 50 miles, 24 hours for 100, and so on according
>to the time/mileage chart. This includes all hold time.
>
>I am *considering* proposing an exception to this rule, and would like
>pro & con feedback from the membership. The proposed exception
>would provide an 'escape clause' for ride managers to use when
>extenuating circumstances prevent a rider, or riders from finishing
>in the alloted time. Something like: >
>"Ride managers may, at their discretion, grant _completion only_
>(no points or placing) to riders who complete the course, but do
>not finish within the allowed time, due to extenuating circumstances."
>Extenuating circumstances would include
>1. weather and 'acts of God' - snow, rain, ice, earthquake :)
>2. emergency relief acts - rider A spends 2 hrs helping rider B who is
injured, and
>rider A goes on to finish the course overtime.
>4. unforseen trail conditions - sabotage, downed trees, landslides,
wash-outs
>
>The reason I feel that an escape clause is desirable is
>that the existing rule is -in reality- not strictly adhered to. It puts
>ride managers in bad situation. Their options are to
>1. Not give completion under any circumstances if a rider finishes over the
>allowed time.
>2. Resanction the ride, (rule 1.3.1) after the fact, as a longer course.
This is allowed if
>last minute changes to the trail were made, and the result is a longer
>course.
>3. Fabricate the results, so that those riders who managment feels 'should'
have
>credit, finish on time.
>
>The latter recourse is often chosen - and condoned. And I personally
>have chosen it and condoned it in some circumstances.
>
>...so doesn't that make it a 'bad' rule? If it's frequently broken, but
>most feel that breaking it might be the right thing to do?
>
>I'm not really fanatic about this, but the situation has been
>bothering me a little bit for a long time. Both managers and
>riders may suffer under the existing rule, but probably the ones
>who are harmed the most are the managers.
>
>The bottom line (IMO) is that without volunteer ride managers, AERC doesn't
>have rides, and without rides, there is no AERC. The organization
>currently does very little, (other than giving info and guidelines
>and advertising through EN) to support ride managers. If we can
>give managers a little more power and flexibilty by giving them a
>'legal' option to an uncomfortable and fairly prevalent situation,
>then we benefit as an organization.
>
>Of course this exception could be abused, but then so can most
>aspects of an endurance ride (mileage accuracy, course marking,
>leniency in granting 'fit to continue' completion, etc). We have to
>assume that the ride manager will 'do the right thing' in all
>other aspects of managing a ride, and therefore should
>assume that the manager will 'do the right thing'
>regarding overtime exceptions, and not grant completion if it was
>not warranted.
>
>whew!
>
>lemme know if any of you have strong opinions one way or the other..
>
>Steph
>
ld be at Ride Managers descretion. If specific things are named, there
is always some strange thing that breaks the rule.
We need to remember why most of us do this sport. It is an Endurance Riders
(we are a strange breed!) idea of fun. We call it relaxation? We also
enjoy the socialization with other, down to earth, horse people. The
endurance people always give me a sense of extended famil5589 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001753 06456710350 0013130 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com (imo17.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.174]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA20645 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:05:43 -0800 (PST)
From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <36f2f3cf.34bb8d60@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:50:55 EST
To: barfield@Primenet.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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In a message dated 98-01-13 02:31:27 EST, you write:
<< The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would not
lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect. The high croups
and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not what get
you to the other side of the mountain and back. Not to mention the long
cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring. >>
AMEN to THIS - been there and seen it all!
sandy
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:23:16 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>, Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
References: <01BD1F58.9A33A1A0@seahorse.fsr.com>
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Steph Teeter wrote:
>
> I'd like some feedback from AERC members - and ride managers,
> on the existing completion time rule, and the desirability of an
> exception to it.
>
> The current rule (5) states (briefly) that competitors are allowed
> 12 hours for 50 miles, 24 hours for 100, and so on according
> to the time/mileage chart. This includes all hold time.
>
> I am *considering* proposing an exception to this rule, and would like
> pro & con feedback from the membership. The proposed exception
> would provide an 'escape clause' for ride managers to use when
> extenuating circumstances prevent a rider, or riders from finishing
> in the alloted time. Something like:
>
> "Ride managers may, at their discretion, grant _completion only_
> (no points or placing) to riders who complete the course, but do
> not finish within the allowed time, due to extenuating circumstances."
>
> Extenuating circumstances would include
> 1. weather and 'acts of God' - snow, rain, ice, earthquake :)
> 2. emergency relief acts - rider A spends 2 hrs helping rider B who is injured, and
> rider A goes on to finish the course overtime.
> 4. unforseen trail conditions - sabotage, downed trees, landslides, wash-outs
>
> The reason I feel that an escape clause is desirable is
> that the existing rule is -in reality- not strictly adhered to. It puts
> ride managers in bad situation. Their options are to
> 1. Not give completion under any circumstances if a rider finishes over the
> allowed time.
> 2. Resanction the ride, (rule 1.3.1) after the fact, as a longer course. This is allowed if
> last minute changes to the trail were made, and the result is a longer
> course.
> 3. Fabricate the results, so that those riders who managment feels 'should' have
> credit, finish on time.
>
> The latter recourse is often chosen - and condoned. And I personally
> have chosen it and condoned it in some circumstances.
>
> ...so doesn't that make it a 'bad' rule? If it's frequently broken, but
> most feel that breaking it might be the right thing to do?
>
> I'm not really fanatic about this, but the situation has been
> bothering me a little bit for a long time. Both managers and
> riders may suffer under the existing rule, but probably the ones
> who are harmed the most are the managers.
>
> The bottom line (IMO) is that without volunteer ride managers, AERC doesn't
> have rides, and without rides, there is no AERC. The organization
> currently does very little, (other than giving info and guidelines
> and advertising through EN) to support ride managers. If we can
> give managers a little more power and flexibilty by giving them a
> 'legal' option to an uncomfortable and fairly prevalent situation,
> then we benefit as an organization.
>
> Of course this exception could be abused, but then so can most
> aspects of an endurance ride (mileage accuracy, course marking,
> leniency in granting 'fit to continue' completion, etc). We have to
> assume that the ride manager will 'do the right thing' in all
> other aspects of managing a ride, and therefore should
> assume that the manager will 'do the right thing'
> regarding overtime exceptions, and not grant completion if it was
> not warranted.
>
> whew!
>
> lemme know if any of you have strong opinions one way or the other..
>
> Steph
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <13e32001.34bb8f89@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:00:07 EST
To: barfield@primenet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
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I think Jerry Barfield said it better than any of us. Thanks, Jerry.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Message-ID: <34BB9866.1E21@inetworld.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:37:58 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: AERC Completion Time Rule
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Steph Teeter wrote:
>
> I'd like some feedback from AERC members - and ride managers,
> on the existing completion time rule, and the desirability of an
> exception to it.
>
> The current rule (5) states (briefly) that competitors are allowed
> 12 hours for 50 miles, 24 hours for 100, and so on according
> to the time/mileage chart. This includes all hold time.
>
> I am *considering* proposing an exception to this rule, and would like
> pro & con feedback from the membership. The proposed exception
> would provide an 'escape clause' for ride managers to use when
> extenuating circumstances prevent a rider, or riders from finishing
> in the alloted time. Something like:
>
> "Ride managers may, at their discretion, grant _completion only_
> (no points or placing) to riders who complete the course, but do
> not finish within the allowed time, due to extenuating circumstances."
>
Steph,
I don't see how this rule change would benefit the rider (he
still would not get a placing or points). This actually would really
be a "hard luck" award which would not require an AERC rule change in
order
for the ride manager to give this.
Last year when we had a problem on the trail with a rider that
caused a back up and blockage of the trail for a period of time, I did
give all the 25 milers an award even if they were late. But I am
upfront with the riders and announce at the ride meeting that if they do
not finish in time, they will not receive a completion. My feeling has
always been that granting completions to those riders who do not make it
in the alloted time is not fair to those riders who have conditioned
their horses to complete the ride in the time allowed. I know there are
some rides that simply "stop the clock" and allow all riders a
completion, but I personally don't agree with that. I realize that
"manure happens" and there are times when, through no fault of the
rider, circumstances prevent a rider from completing, and that's
unfortunate, but that is part of the sport.
That's just my perspective.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:28:43 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Lynne@Glazer.org
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
References: <19980112.145944.3230.1.ToriandSteve@juno.com> <34BACADE.1177@cyberg8t.com>
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> If the ride were ever to be held again, the ride mgr or spouse must be
> in the military, dunno whether it has to be an officer or not, since it
> takes place on the military reservation.
Is it just a matter of having someone in the RM's group be military?
David is Navy Reserve, AND an officer and drills all the time at
Pendleton. He definitely has the connections, but neither of us are
experienced enough to just jump in and say, Shazam, we're ride
managers. But if it's a matter of just needing someone involved with
all the right connections...well, those we got.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 08:34:46 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: twhowe@inetworld.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
References: <19980112.145944.3230.1.ToriandSteve@juno.com> <34BACADE.1177@cyberg8t.com> <34BAF968.FC9@inetworld.net>
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Terry Woolley Howe wrote:
>
> Lynne Glazer wrote:
> >
> > >Does anybody know if the Pendleton Challenge will be held this year? I
> > think someone on Ridecamp said they thought it might be run for the last
> > time in April or May, but I haven't heard anything since. This is the
> > best ride in S. CA for a new horse and Lord knows Taffy doesn't need a
> > difficult first ride. If the ride manager isn't able to put it on
> > anymore how about finding someone to take over the position!
> >
> > Terry announced at the Warner Springs ride meeting that the Pendleton
> > ride would be held April 25, for the last time because Susan Gibson,
> > ride manager (who was also in attendance) was moving along with her
> > military husband.
> >
> > If the ride were ever to be held again, the ride mgr or spouse must be
> > in the military, dunno whether it has to be an officer or not, since it
> > takes place on the military reservation.
> >
> > Lynne
> > and Rem-member Me, who needs to tippy toe in the ocean and do this ride
>
> Lynne,
>
> Before Susan Gibson (no connection to ROC Susan Gibson) took over the
> Pendleton Ride, it was managed (I believe) by the base commander who was
> into horses. After he left, there were several years when the Pendleton
> was not run. Susan has managed it for several years and is a member of
> the Chaps and Britches Riding Club on the base. Even those her husband
> is a major and she is a very highly placed civilian employee at the
> base, she still has a difficult time dealing with the base in getting
> them to commit to the use of the various trails. It is always a big
> hassle for her. There is no one else in the riding club who is into
> endurance, so it would be very difficult to get anyone to take over who
> would have access to the base command to get permission to establish a
> course, getting the military to help with road crossings, volunteers to
> get on base to help mark trails, etc. And she always has a heck of a
> time on race day getting volunteers from the base who she can count on
> to help. It would be real difficult to find someone who could fill
> Susan's shoes who has all the connections to get the job done. So this
> probably will be the last year since Susan and Chip are due to be
> transferred in August.
>
> Terry Woolley Howe
> San Diego
OK, I posted early enquiry about finding new RM before I read this.
nevertheless, if there is an endurance group that's willing to help take
on the ride, David DOES have the connections/clout at Pendleton. But
again, neither of us are experienced enough to just jump in and take
over managing the ride ourselves.
Susan Garlinghouse
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From: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:41:31 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Magazines
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Does anyone know any good Endurance Magazines I can subscribe to?
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <dc331886.34bb9d49@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:47 EST
To: bobmorris@rmci.net, equine_athletes@hotmail.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-13 04:04:42 EST, bobmorris@rmci.net writes:
<<
Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This is
ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have every
thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding was
not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is "if
I don't finish I will complain".
Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
>>
Maybe it did, Bob. BUT, consider the expertise of ride managers (some
judgements regarding trail difficulty not made well, MANY courses not measured
well) and course designers (ditto) and good old mother nature....there ARE
instances when times cannot be met through NO fault or decision on the part of
the rider. I still vote for total RIDING time, not just total time.
Teddy
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From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: sunscreen for horses
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:24:22 -0500
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VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
I have a horse with a white face/nose. He gets sunburned in the summer.
Should I use regular human sunscreen? Is there a product designed for
horses that anyone's tried?
Paula
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9a741d86.34bb9d46@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:45 EST
To: barfield@primenet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
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In a message dated 98-01-13 04:04:34 EST, you write:
<< The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would not
lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect. The high croups
and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not what get
you to the other side of the mountain and back. Not to mention the long
cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring. >>
Also, the "show breeders" no NOTHING when it comes to performance
conformation...neither do the judges. PLUS, many of these horses are OVERFED
and STEROIDED to increase early growth...too much too soon. They are, IMO,
NOT a good prospect (unless you are lucky enought to get the NICE one when he
is 3 months old - even then, the MARE is often overfed to produce a bigger
foal - that is transmitted on to a foal that is asked to grow to soon too fast
BEFORE he is born).
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <783e9c07.34bb9d3e@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:37 EST
To: equine_athletes@HOTMAIL.COM, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-13 04:01:32 EST, equine_athletes@hotmail.com writes:
<<
In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the
rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. Then
if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,
etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
rule.
>>
10-4!!! I have always thought this would be fair to all...Teddy
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From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: bit to hackamore
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:31:08 -0500
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VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
I want to try a hackamore on horses that have been previously ridden in
bits (mild types). Any suggestions in change over? Do I just "do it", or
is there something that I should do in-between to help adjust them to it?
What type would everyone recommend....mechanical hacks.....or other types?
Thanks
Paula
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: FW: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:08:40 -0800
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<forwarded post from Heidi Smith>
-----Original Message-----
From: CMKSAGEHIL [SMTP:CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 1:12 PM
To: step@fsr.com
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Hi, Steph--
I personally have VERY STRONG feelings about the completion time rule. I
think the current blind eye that is turned toward it is DEPLORABLE and that
the fact that AERC does not stick to its rules and DQ the riders who don't
make it in makes us a laughingstock at times.
As to extenuating circumstances, I feel sorry when bad things happen to good
people, but that is the breaks. A rule such as you propose sounds nice, but
it is a foot in the door for a situation that is already, in my opinion, out
of hand. 12 hours to do a 50 is sufficient to walk and jog the whole thing,
given a horse with a decent walk (the most neglected gait of our endurance
horses, in my opinion), and likewise on 100's. AERC already has a clause
where ride managers can postpone the ride for a day if there are acts of God,
intolerable weather, etc.--perhaps this should be used more.
I hope the time limit rule stays in place and that AERC somewhere gets the
guts to enforce it--otherwise, where is the challenge and what have we
completed? We become just another long trail ride if there are no standards.
(Kinda like the dumbing down in the schools--poor Johnny is a nice kid, and
showed up for school every day, so sorry he was only able to earn 65%, but we
should pass him because he tried so hard....) Nothing says ride managers
can't give completion awards and cudos to such folks, but please, no AERC
completion credit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heidi
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>,
"Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: bit to hackamore
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:33:20 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd2049$578cf940$LocalHost@patfred>
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Paula,
You might try making the change gradually by using both the old setup & the
new at the same time. This way, if the horse isn't responding to the
hackamore, you have a backup to be safe.
This is what I always suggest when people change over to my ride halter that
works like a sidepull. After a while the horse learns that if they don't
behave in the ride halter they are back on the bit. I've had a lot of
people successfully make the change by doing it this way.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: The Vervaet's <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 9:08 AM
Subject: bit to hackamore
>VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
>I want to try a hackamore on horses that have been previously ridden in
>bits (mild types). Any suggestions in change over? Do I just "do it", or
>is there something that I should do in-between to help adjust them to it?
>What type would everyone recommend....mechanical hacks.....or other types?
>Thanks
>Paula
>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:02:46 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Endurance List <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: New Mexico Renegade Ride
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Is anybody from southern California going to the New Mexico Renegade ride
in March. I am looking to hitch a ride....and might be able to provide a
driver.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:07:31 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
X-Sender: bartesc@mallard
To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: bioplastics distrubuter
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980113120553.10235D-100000@mallard>
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Hey guys! Does anyone here have any information that I can get about
manufacturers of biothane? where can I buy the stuff wholesale, just the
biothane?
I have a friend with a dog business and he is interested in making collars
for the show circuit for dogs.
please e-mail me private if you have that info, I would be eternally
gratefull!!
see you guys at the convention!!!
APPY TRAILS
SAMM C. BARTEE
Auburn, Al. SE Region
with
SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance newbie
85 miles and.....
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'bobmorris@rmci.net'" <bobmorris@rmci.net>,
"ridecamp@endurance.net"
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:23:25 -0800
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Bob - I have a couple questions for you:
As Joe Long pointed out, there was originally NO time limit
imposed by AERC. The rule came about because of individuals
trying to ride a billion miles in one season, and the only way
they could do it was if they walked the entire course. So they
did, and it kept ride managers up all night and drove everyone
crazy.
So, were you in favor of the new time limit rule when it was
proposed? I assume you were competing at the time. And
if so, why was 12 hours the magic number? This is still a
pretty slow pace for a *real* endurance ride.... and when the
rule was originally put in place, did it address the question
of variation in hold times, or did that come about later?
st
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert J. Morris [SMTP:bobmorris@rmci.net]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 9:00 PM
To: Linda Van Ceylon; ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Linda and Ride Camp:
I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire rule
61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not those
finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!! Ramey , you should know better!!
<<The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of
courses we have>>
This is the name of the game, meet the challenge and endure. No one said
the bear in the cave you enter would be in a good mood!!!
<<Then if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really
bad, etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
rule.>>
This is ENDURANCE RIDING, not a therapy session to make every one feel
good. Adversity builds character and personal strength. These excuses, and
they are really excuses, would be a crutch for those with out strength,
with out the ability to take things as they occur. If I do not finish a
ride it is MY fault, not the fact there was not enough time, the trail was
mismarked, the weather was bad etc. IT WAS MY FAULT AND I DO NOT NEED AN
EXCUSE!!!
<<> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more
discussion.>>>
Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This is
ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have every
thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding was
not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is "if
I don't finish I will complain".
Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
> From: Linda Van Ceylon <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 8:21 PM
>
> Hi Steph,
>
> I think Ramey's argument is sound. We already have a rule to deal with
> the overtime situation. It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but, to
> me, it seems clear.
>
> . And, it seems in some cases, there is a great
> variation of the number of feet in a mile. Here in our area, there are
> 5,280 ft. per mile. That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over 4
> hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win. Granted, sometimes
> there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are
> miscalculated. But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage
> accurate.
>
> On a really tough course, with two vet holds, it is really easy to be
> pushing the 12 hour envelope. The suggestions of other ride managers,
> and many riders, seems to be "just make the course shorter, no one will
> ever complain about a course that is too short". Well, I just don't
> think this is right.
>
> In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the
> rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. Then
> if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,
> etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
> rule.
>
> We have particular problems with LD rides. Because, when you include
> the hold times in the total 6 hours they get, this magnifies the speed
> they are actually doing on the course compared to the longer distances.
> Let's say you have 2 vc's in your 25-miler and your 50-miler. At 1.5
> hours total hold time, the 50's must average 4.76 mph but, the 25's must
> average 5.55 mph. while they are on the trail. The 25's have to "go
> like h..." to meet the cut-off. This is not in keeping with my
> philosophy of the purpose of LD.
>
> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more discussion.
>
> Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
> Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> 2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
> 970-226-1099
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: digging to China
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:27:55 -0700
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Just a note for those of you with stalled horses. I couldn't afford stall
mats-to do both stalls would have cost over $500! I have a friend who works
at a local manufacturing company. He said that every so often they have to
change out their rubber conveyor belts. He put our name on a waiting list
and as of this past weekend, we are the proud owners of 200 ft. of conveyor
belting No cost other than dinner for said friends. Craig's mare Fancy
seems to pee every other minute, when we would clean her stall (daily), we
would also be digging out inches of mud every time. Over the past 6 months,
we were down about two feet. We filled in the hole-by this time I felt we
were on our way to China-with road base and cut belting to fit her stall.
Man, are they HEAVY! Craig thinks all I do is come up with projects to make
him work. However, my shavings are finally doing the job they were intended
for-soaking up- and I am a happier stall cleaner.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:43:51 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Susanw@exactimaging.com (susan)
Subject: Pony prices and training and attitude
My old horse was a handful, small and quick and brave we did everthing and
went everywhere,fast!, it was'nt just his age it was his heart too. The
horse I'm riding now (Coco) several of you last summer told me to sell, she
refuses to do anything without a fight, the last straw was her turning
(happened too quick)around on a 45 degree hill falling I went underneath
her, I'm lucky too be here, and I'm still in phsy therapy, landed upside
down on my neck. I rarely come off horses, so I guess this was to make up
for all the rest. I really think every horse is different and you have too
work with what you have, I don't know if attitude is born or can develop
with age,Coco's attitude has changed some but she still is a better arena
horse than trail. I like her personality,so I have'nt sold her yet, but I
really think I'm not qualified for this horse.
Susan & the outward expanding mares. (is that a blimp in the pasture?)
Oregon, U.S.A.
A canter is a cure for every evil.
Benjamin Disraeli
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:46:52 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801131846.AA02294@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net, bobmorris@rmci.net, equine_athletes@hotmail.com
Subject: completion time rule
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
All right I love a really "hot button" topic. Especially when its cold
outside.
I think Bob Morris does make a valid point, as does Linda Van Ceylon.
I don't want unlimited time to finish just because a trail is a little
tougher - as someone who is not at the caliber to be able to race a
tougher ride gives me a personal challenge. But Ride managers should
not have to choose between having extra vet holds and pace - one compromise
I would personally like to see is shorten the current completion time a
little bit but exclude hold times from completion times.
>I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire rule
>61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not those
>finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!! Ramey , you should know better!!
I hope this rule does not pertain only to the top ten. If I get confused
and do a loop backwards as does someone who finished in top ten why should
they get a completion and not me? I understand that is not fair to give
placing to someone who is not doing the "exact" same course because the
other placers do not have the opportunity to see how far behind (or ahead)
they are and adjust their pace accordingly.
Teresa
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Hello all!
I had to laugh out loud at the post from the Californian who said we
easterners must be getting sick of hearing about the rain in southern
CA. Not at all; I've really enjoyed the posts about the rained-out
ride and the camaraderie that we're missing due to ol' man winter.
This leads me to a question, though:
Since my husband and I are new to all this (competing last year in
about 3 CTRs), we're doing our best to keep our horses semi-fit thru
the winter months. We are in western New York, and tend to get lots
of lake effect snow (not so far this year -- thank you, El Nino, from
those of us on the EAST coast!!), so we've got a few drops of borium
on the shoes, and are ready to rock and roll. Unfortunately, our work
has been inconsistent due to the weather. What are the rest of you
doing to keep your horses fit (and you) during winter?
Should we pack up in the trailer and try to get some work in in an
indoor arena?
Off the topic, I've been reading all the formaldehyde posts. Being a
health and safety manager, I do feel qualified to say. This is nasty
#*&!*!! (technical term). Not only a carcinogen, but a very potent
eye irritant, as has been posted. Do try to use something else, but
if you must, use impermeable gloves, and goggles if you can. Safety
first, safety always.
One last question . . . Being from western New York, we participated
in one ECTRA clinic (in the Adirondacks), two AHAO rides (near
Cleveland), and one NATRC ride (near Cleveland,too -- hats off to Pam
Pintchuk, if you're out there -- this was a great ride!). We'd like
to stay within about 6 hours of home, but find our ride options
somewhat limited. Are there any or organizations out there that we
are missing? Since we're just getting started and have fairly young
horses (6 and 7), we're more in it for the fun of it, the miles, and
having a pleasant time, do let us know if we're missing any rides in
our area which are known as "a good time."
Thanks to all for your help!
Patti Carey-Stedman and (Belgian/TB) Tess (looking like a cross
between a woolly mammoth and Snuffleluffagus from Sesame Street)
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:21:45 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
An unfortunate fact of like is that in the Southeast we sometimes have
trouble with trail vandlas. They can be quite creative. Not only will
they take ribbons, but they will use the ribbons to remark the trail for
you leading riders way off course. This can and will happen during a ride,
where it will only impact riders in the middle or back of the pack. While
ride management can do all they can to mitigate this problem, it cannot be
totally eliminated. I really don't belive a tough luck - to hell with you
is the correct response in this situtation. While placement is probably not
called for, I believe milage - assuming the necessary milage was cover -
is.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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To: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
Subject: Re: 5 Speed Transmissions
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Dorothy,
I asked my husband to explain this to me. Here is the scoop. He said that
particularly if you have an automatic even if it has an auxillary cooling
system (doesn't matter what make), it's never a good idea to haul in
overdrive. The reason being, there is a torque convertor that slips inside
an automatic. In the higher gears (overdrive) this convertor slips more
causing friction and a heat build up within you transmission fluid. As the
transmission fluid heats up, it begins to lose it's ability to lubricate. As
the lubrication factor decreases, there is more friction, more heat build up
and eventually the transmission fluid will fail, leaving metal on metal.
That's when things break. There are alot of factors that go into how long
it takes for this to happen. Terrain, speed, degree of throttle, etc.
Now in a manual transmission, he said that some are better than others, but
that still you always have a risk factor. When your transmission in in 4th
gear, you have a direct ratio of 1 to 1 between your engine and the rearend
(essentially by-passing the gears) as your drive shaft is turning at the
same speed as your engine. When you shift into 5th or overdrive, your drive
shaft is then turning faster than the engine. It all depends on the
strength of the gears in 5th/overdrive, the amount of torque, terrain, and
throttle speed again as to whether on not you have a failure at this time
when hauling. The temptation with a manual for many people is to stick it
in overdrive, put the cruise control on and go. When you do this, you never
know where your throttle is, it can be wide open or not, just to maintain
your speed. Anyway, he said that he loves people who haul in 5th/overdrive,
as it means bread and butter at our shop <g>, but I'd better not do it,
because he doesn't want to have to traipse across the country to come rescue
me if I break down.
Anne and the Horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
At 08:10 AM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Ask your husband if that applies when you're on a freeway that's flat. I
>put our Chevy Diesel into overdrive when I'm going 60 on the freeway, but
>I'll quit doing that if he says to.
>
>Dorothy & Elly
>taylorsville, ca
>
>----------
>> From: AJ's Classical Gas <ajsgas@imt.net>
>> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>> Subject: 5 Speed Transmissions
>> Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 12:58 PM
>>
>> You said that you had a 5-speed transmission in your 1996 Chevy diesel.
>I
>> only know that my husband has told me never to haul the trailer in
>overdrive
>> or 5th gear. He is a mechanic and has replaced many 5th gears in
>> transmissions where the person was hauling a trailer (sometimes that gear
>> has gone out in only one trip). So, to be on the safe side, don't use
>> overdrive/5th when hauling, because if it does break, your stuck till a
>> wrecker hauls you in (ick).
>> Anne & the horses
>> (Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
>
>
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: "Steph Teeter" <step@fsr.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:59:15 -0700
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Steph & Ride Camp:
Long before the Trilby/Les episodes (my apologies to you both, but this is
how it is recognized) I find in the 1980 Ride Managers Handbook (Jim
Remillard was AERC Pres.) the following:
A prescribed maximum time is usually set for completion of the ride.
Typically this is 12 hours for 50 miles, and 24 hours for 100 miles
This was an offshoot of the Tevis "100 miles in one day". My records do not
extend back beyond that as far as Ride Managers handbooks are concerned.
I have always been in favor of the 12 hour rule and continue to do so. (as
you can see from my recent posts.)To me it is disconcerting to have
persons, with inadequately prepared horses and/ or not properly prepared
themselves, who are not willing to be prepared to COMPETE, be given the
same recognition as those persons making the effort.
If at my age (and that also includes Arlene and many others of like
longevity such as Bill Ansenberger, Julie Suhr and Bob Suhr and many
others), if we ask no quarter, no special conditions, then let the younger
set, those wanting special considerations show why they REALLY need them.
To finish is to win and winning is not a given in life
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
> From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
> To: 'bobmorris@rmci.net'; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 11:23 AM
>
> Bob - I have a couple questions for you:
>
> As Joe Long pointed out, there was originally NO time limit
> imposed by AERC. The rule came about because of individuals
> trying to ride a billion miles in one season, and the only way
> they could do it was if they walked the entire course. So they
> did, and it kept ride managers up all night and drove everyone
> crazy.
>
> So, were you in favor of the new time limit rule when it was
> proposed? I assume you were competing at the time. And
> if so, why was 12 hours the magic number? This is still a
> pretty slow pace for a *real* endurance ride.... and when the
> rule was originally put in place, did it address the question
> of variation in hold times, or did that come about later?
>
> st
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert J. Morris [SMTP:bobmorris@rmci.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 9:00 PM
> To: Linda Van Ceylon; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>
> Linda and Ride Camp:
>
> I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire rule
> 61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not those
> finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!! Ramey , you should know
better!!
>
> <<The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of
> courses we have>>
>
> This is the name of the game, meet the challenge and endure. No one said
> the bear in the cave you enter would be in a good mood!!!
>
> <<Then if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets
really
> bad, etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
> rule.>>
>
> This is ENDURANCE RIDING, not a therapy session to make every one feel
> good. Adversity builds character and personal strength. These excuses,
and
> they are really excuses, would be a crutch for those with out strength,
> with out the ability to take things as they occur. If I do not finish a
> ride it is MY fault, not the fact there was not enough time, the trail
was
> mismarked, the weather was bad etc. IT WAS MY FAULT AND I DO NOT NEED AN
> EXCUSE!!!
>
> <<> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more
> discussion.>>>
>
> Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This
is
> ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
every
> thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
> may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
was
> not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
"if
> I don't finish I will complain".
>
> Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
>
> Bob Morris
> Morris Endurance Enterprises
> Boise, ID
>
> ----------
> > From: Linda Van Ceylon <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> > To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 8:21 PM
> >
> > Hi Steph,
> >
> > I think Ramey's argument is sound. We already have a rule to deal with
> > the overtime situation. It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but,
to
> > me, it seems clear.
> >
> > . And, it seems in some cases, there is a great
> > variation of the number of feet in a mile. Here in our area, there are
> > 5,280 ft. per mile. That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over 4
> > hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win. Granted, sometimes
> > there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are
> > miscalculated. But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage
> > accurate.
> >
> > On a really tough course, with two vet holds, it is really easy to be
> > pushing the 12 hour envelope. The suggestions of other ride managers,
> > and many riders, seems to be "just make the course shorter, no one will
> > ever complain about a course that is too short". Well, I just don't
> > think this is right.
> >
> > In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the
> > rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. Then
> > if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,
> > etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
> > rule.
> >
> > We have particular problems with LD rides. Because, when you include
> > the hold times in the total 6 hours they get, this magnifies the speed
> > they are actually doing on the course compared to the longer distances.
> > Let's say you have 2 vc's in your 25-miler and your 50-miler. At 1.5
> > hours total hold time, the 50's must average 4.76 mph but, the 25's
must
> > average 5.55 mph. while they are on the trail. The 25's have to "go
> > like h..." to meet the cut-off. This is not in keeping with my
> > philosophy of the purpose of LD.
> >
> > I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more discussion.
> >
> > Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
> > Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> > 2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
> > 970-226-1099
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> >
>
>
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Steph & Ride Camp:
Long before the Trilby/Les episodes (my apologies to you both, but this is
how it is recognized) I find in the 1980 Ride Managers Handbook (Jim
Remillard was AERC Pres.) the following:
A prescribed maximum time is usually set for completion of the ride.
Typically this5613 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000004421 06456745116 0013117 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from tcbru22.cec.be (tcbru22.cec.be [158.169.10.11]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA16069 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:10:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Leonard.LIESENS@DG10.cec.be
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Content-Identifier: Orthoflex new pa
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:07:31 +0100
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Orthoflex new pad system
Message-ID: <WIN938-980113190802-64AD*/G=Leonard/S=LIESENS/O=DG10/PRMD=CEC/ADMD=RTT/C=BE/@MHS>
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I gor finally my Orthoflex saddle. Wonderful. exactly what I was expecting as color, but their new pad system...
The one I rode during the Tevis had booties and the whole system was looking perfect and did peerfectly work, I mean for Sukaro HCC, Steph's arab gelding.
But now they changed this and the saddle was delivered with a so_called 'numnah' which is made of 2 parts :
- one is a white fleece shaped as a saddle with felt on one side and something looking like wool (but it can be synthetic as well) on the other side.
- the other part is something looking like a regular dressage/jumping saddle pas, but with a whole shaped as a saddle in the middle and velcro attachments.
No schema, no explanation or getting started to be found...
I think that the white fleece goes on the horse with the whole part in contact of the horse and the felt in contact with the panelling system.
The pad with the whole seems to be there only as a finishing touch, maybe to protect or hide the panelling system and presumely goes on top of the first pad and around the saddle.
Are other ridecamp buddies experimenting this new system and can you tell me if I am right or not.
Thanks for help
Leonard, from Belgium
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Subject: Osceola National Forest post; Osceola l00 results Post;
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From: Jean Wonser
Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
Please determine the problem as the two above news items do not appear on the Archives other than their respective titles (January l2 and l3, l998). As a browser I'd like to read the results. etc.
Thanks
Jean Wonser
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:02 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: bobmorris@rmci.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Gosh Bob, maybe I goofed. But I quoted the entire Rule 6.1 in my post
to Steph. Could you point out the additional langauge that limits Rule
6.1 to Top Ten Finishers?
Save yourself the effort, Bob, it's not there. Your argument is based
upon your personal interpretation and understanding of the rules.
My discussion was based on the actual words of the rule itself. Nothing
in the rule limits it's application to top ten finishers, they are only
mentioned. Since the rule was adopted as written, it is subject to my,
as well as your, interpretation. In other words it is ambiguous.
You might note that in most cases a court will reverse any sanction
issued to a rider based upon an alledged violation of an ambiguously
written rule.
So now I suppose you will argue we should all know what the rules mean
regardless of what they say. Skip it, Bob, I've heard that one before.
Ramey.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:05:10 -0800
To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: charla cranor <arabian@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
Becky Hackworth is considering taking on this ride with alot of help.
I would e-mail her. Her husband already arranges all the entertainment
,and activities on 32nd St. Naval Base.
Charla Cranor
Alpine, Ca.
At 08:28 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>> If the ride were ever to be held again, the ride mgr or spouse must be
>> in the military, dunno whether it has to be an officer or not, since it
>> takes place on the military reservation.
>
>
>Is it just a matter of having someone in the RM's group be military?
>David is Navy Reserve, AND an officer and drills all the time at
>Pendleton. He definitely has the connections, but neither of us are
>experienced enough to just jump in and say, Shazam, we're ride
>managers. But if it's a matter of just needing someone involved with
>all the right connections...well, those we got.
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:22:19 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Craig W. Hadley wrote:
He said that every so often they have to
> change out their rubber conveyor belts. He put our name on a waiting
I know a few people who use rubber conveyor belts in their stall. They
do a good job but are easier for the horse to move around then the
heavier rubber mats.
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:45:58 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:00:08 -0700, "Robert J. Morris"
<bobmorris@rmci.net> wrote:
>Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This is
>ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have every
>thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
>may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding was
>not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is "if
>I don't finish I will complain".
Bob, you know I've often agreed with you in the past about the
challenge of *endurance* ... but that challenge is a real challenge,
against the trail. We don't need arbitrary rules or barriers to
produce it. The "good old days" when trails were tough and no one
complained (did they really exist?) also were the days when the AERC
didn't have a riding time rule.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:48:00 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:02 -0700, Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
<ramey@wvi.com> wrote:
>Gosh Bob, maybe I goofed. But I quoted the entire Rule 6.1 in my post
>to Steph. Could you point out the additional langauge that limits Rule
>6.1 to Top Ten Finishers?
>Save yourself the effort, Bob, it's not there. Your argument is based
>upon your personal interpretation and understanding of the rules.
Rule 6.1 isn't limited to Top Ten, but the AERC Board has always held
that it doesn't allow exceptions to the time limit, either. Perhaps
that needs to be made more clear, but I wouldn't advise a ride manager
trying to allow an overtime completion based on it.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:55:21 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:37 EST, RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-13 04:01:32 EST, equine_athletes@hotmail.com writes:
><<
> In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the
> rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. Then
> if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,
> etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
> rule.
> >>
>10-4!!! I have always thought this would be fair to all...Teddy
The reason the time limits include holds is to prevent holds from
being used as a loophole. Remember, at the time the rule was adopted
some riders and managers had started having 24-hour fifties and
14-hour hundreds.
There is also the problem of what happens to the "100 Mile One-Day"
ride if the time limit is 24 hours *plus* all of the hold times? Do
you really want the 100's to be 27 or 30 hours? Sorry, but I don't
think that approach is workable.
My recommendation is still to either eliminate the rule altogether and
let ride managers set their time limits as they see fit -- or at least
allow ride managers discretion for abnormal conditions. The idea that
a fixed time limit makes the rides the same difficulty everywhere is a
fiction, the trail and weather conditions vary far too much for that.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:06:29 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: MaryAnne Bobrow <aerc@foothill.net>
Subject: AERC Schedule of Events
Cc: steph@fsr.com
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Hi, everyone. Here's a revised Schedule of Events for AERC's Convention.
It'll probably get one more update to fill in Committee meetings.
I'll also be rewriting the schedule in HTML language for the web site.
I'll do that tonight and forward it to Denise for posting on AERC's web=
site.
Schedule of Events
AERC's Annual Convention and Trade Show
January 22-24, 1998
Lexington Center/Hyatt Regency
Lexington, Kentucky
Please note: Additional committeee meetings may be scheduled; a printed
schedule will be available at Convention. A version will be placed on
AERC's web site as well.
Thursday, January 22, 1998
3:00 PM - Technical Committee - Meeting Room A
3:00 PM - Sanctioning Committee - Meeting Room B
4:00 PM - Competitions Committee - Meeting Room B
5:00 PM - Technical Committee - Meeting Room A
5:00 PM - Rules Committee - Meeting Room B
6:00 PM - AERC Executive Committee Meeting - Hyatt Regency, San
Francisco/Washington Rooms - Second Level
6:00 PM - Seminar conducted by Paul Semmler, Lexington Center=96Meeting=
Room C
Paul Semmler's presentation will focus on Exercise Physiology.
7:00 PM - AERC Board of Directors' Meeting - Hyatt Regency, San
Francisco/Washington Rooms - Second Level. Seating around the perimeter of
the meeting room will be provided for any AERC member wishing to attend
this meeting.=20
7: 00 PM - Seminar conducted by Jeannie Waldron, DVM
Lexington Center=96Meeting Room C. Dr. Waldron's presentation, also
focusing on Exercise Physiology is intended to pick up where Paul Semmler's
presentation leaves off. =20
8:00 PM - Seminar conducted by Nancy Loving, DVM
Lexington Center - Meeting Room C. Dr. Loving's presentation focuses on
Advanced Endurance Topics. Although this presentation is targeted at the
seasoned endurance rider, those new to the sport of endurance riding will
enjoy this educational opportunity as well.
Friday, January 23, 1998
6:45 AM - Veterinarian CEU program registration - Hyatt Regency Lobby
7:30 AM - Conference registration begins
7:30 AM - 9:00 AM - USET Disciplinary Committee - Meeting Room F
8:00 AM - Trade show opens. Remember folks, the Trade Show is open to
the public, free-of-charge. You do not have to register for the seminars
to indulge yourself with the wonderful products on display in the Exhibit
Hall.
8:00 AM - Noon - Veterinarian Tour of the Maxwell H. Gluck Equine Research
Center. This tour is part of the CEU program for veterinarians.
Registration for this seminar begins at 6:45 AM in the lobby of the Hyatt
Regency. Transportation to/from the Gluck Center will be coordinated here
as well.
8:30 AM - Seminar conducted by Attorney Gina S. McCann.
Lexington Center - Meeting Room C. Attorney McCann will speak to
attendees about liability issues involving amateur horse owners.
9:00 AM-10:30 AM - AHSA Meeting - Meeting Room F
10:00 AM - Seminar conducted by Dr. Stephen E. Duren
Lexington Center - Meeting Room C. Dr. Duren's presentation will focus
on evaluating the endurance horse.
11:00 AM - Seminar presented by Valerie Kanavy
Lexington Center - Meeting Room D. AERC's own Valerie Kanavy will share
insights in endurance ride strategy.
Noon - Seminar conducted by Mimi Porter. =20
Lexington Center - Meeting Room C. Ms. Porter's presentation will focus
on massage therapy.
1:00 PM- 4:00 PM - CEU Program for Veterinarians.
Lexington Center - Ballrooms 2 - 4. Program conducted by Dr. Thomas
Tobin of The Gluck Equine Research Center.
1:30 PM - Seminar conducted by Dr. Kathleen Crandell
Lexington Center - Meeting Room D. Dr. Crandell's presentation will
focus on feeding the endurance horse
2:30 PM - Seminar conducted by Dr. Joe Pagan
Lexington Center - Meeting Room D. Dr. Pagan's presentation will focus
on what's new in endurance nutrition
3:30 PM - 5:00 PM - Endurance Rider's Panel
Lexington Center - Meeting Room D. This year's panel consists of Stagg
Newman, Moderator, Becky Hart, Danielle Kanavy, Earle Baxter and Roger
Blalock.
4:00 PM - 5:00 PM - Veterinary Committee Meeting
Lexington Center - Ballrooms 2 - 4
This meeting is open to AERC Veterinarians only.
4:30 PM - 6:00 PM - AERC International Committee Meeting
Lexington Center - Meeting Room C
5:00 PM - Trade Show closes for the day
5:30 PM - 7:00 PM - No host cocktail hour. Hyatt Regency - Lower Level
"B" (just outside Patterson Ballroom). The Daniel Boone Distance Riders
will sponsor your pre-Awards Dinner band and a keg of Lexington's own
Limestone Beer. All other beverages are available for sale at the cash bar.
7:00 PM - 9:00 PM - AERC Regional Awards Dinner
Hyatt Regency - Lower Level "B" - Patterson Ballroom
9:00 PM - Midnight AERC/Ride & Tie Co-sponsored Dance
Hyatt Regency - Lower Level "B" - Patterson Ballroom. Music to please
everyone provided by Lexington DJ's and Grooves on the Move. Karaoke
starts at 10:00 PM so warm up those vocal chords!
Saturday, January 24, 1998
7:00 AM - 8:00 AM - Joint AHSA/USET Meeting - Meeting Room F
7:30 AM - Conference Registration Opens
8:00 AM - Trade Show opens
8:00 AM - Installation of Officers - Ballrooms 2 - 4
8:30 AM-10:00 AM - AERC General Session (Open Mike) - Ballrooms 2 - 4.
AERC's membership is cordially invited to hear from and be heard by AERC's
Board of Directors. =20
10:00 AM - Noon - Keynote Address by Dr. Thomas Tobin - Ballrooms 2 -4.
Noon - Seminar/Demonstration conducted by Shirley McQuillen=20
Lexington Center - Trade Show floor. Ms. McQuillen is a noted
chiropractor and comes highly recommended. Don't miss her presentation and
live demonstration!
1:30 PM - 3:00 PM - Seminar conducted by Michael A. Foss, DVM
Lexington Center - Ballroom 2. Dr. Foss' presentation will focus on the
rehabilitation of injured horses.
3:00 PM - Seminar conducted by Lani Newcomb, DVM
Lexington Center - Meeting Room C. Dr. Newcomb's presentation will
focus on Rider/Veterinarian Teamwork
3:00 PM - USET Active Rider Committee Meeting - Meeting Room D
4:00 PM - Limited Distance Program=20
Lexington Center - Meeting Room D
Sue Grahl, Chair of AERC's Limited Distance Committee and Donna Snyder
Smith, one of AERC's own Directors, will lead this first-ever program
especially for limited distance riders.
5:00 PM - Trade Show closes
5:00 PM - Technical Committee Meeting - Meeting Room A
6:00 PM - 7:00 PM - No host cocktail hour. Hyatt Regency - Lower Level
"B" (just outside Patterson Ballroom). Cash bar available .
7:00 PM - 9:00 PM - AERC National Awards Dinner
Hyatt Regency - Lower Level "B" - Patterson Ballroom
Sunday, January 25, 1998
7:30 AM - AERC Board of Directors Meeting
Hyatt Regency - San Francisco/Washington Rooms - Second Level
MaryAnne Bobrow
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:09:50 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801132209.OAA24591@fsr.com>
Subject: WINDPUFFS
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: NANCY DUNBAR
Email: JIMDUNBAR@AOL.COM
HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR ROGER R. HOME RECIPE FOR WINDPUFFS. ANYONE HAVING THE RECIPE, PLEASE E MAIL TO ME. I HAVE A MISSOURI FOXTROTTER THAT PUFFS. HE HAS FOUR YEARS OF REASONABLE CONDITIONING ON HIM. I RIDE 3 DAYS A WEEK, RIDES RANGING FROM 10 TO 35. DON'T DO LOTS OF VERY HARD RIDING. HIS PUFFS SUCK DOWN COMPLETELY AFTER RIDING, COME UP AGAIN THE NEXT DAY AND REMAIN FOR SEVERAL DAYS. HE IS ON ACREAGE SO NOT IN A STALL. DOES NOT HAVE GREEN GRASS. I FEED GRASS-ALPH. MIX AND GRAIN SO NOT ON A HOT DIET. HE GETS VITAMINS AND MINERALS AND SALT. ICE AND WRAPS DON'T WORK, WHEN I REMOVE, THE PUFFS COME BACK IN A FEW HOURS. DMSO 1/3 AND APPLE CIDER VINEGAR 2/3 WORKS BUT I DON'T LIKE USING DMSO. ANYONE HAVE THOUGHTS AS FAR AS USING A CHONDROITIN SULFATE??? OR A GREAT INEXPENSIVE BRACE??? OR ROGER'S HOME RECIPE??? THANKS FOR THE HELP
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:08:52 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c7e331.354321857@mail.mti.net>
References: <199801132001.MAA15086@fsr.com>
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On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:59:15 -0700, "Robert J. Morris"
<bobmorris@rmci.net> wrote:
>Steph & Ride Camp:
>Long before the Trilby/Les episodes (my apologies to you both, but this is
>how it is recognized) I find in the 1980 Ride Managers Handbook (Jim
>Remillard was AERC Pres.) the following:
>A prescribed maximum time is usually set for completion of the ride.
>Typically this is 12 hours for 50 miles, and 24 hours for 100 miles
>This was an offshoot of the Tevis "100 miles in one day". My records do not
>extend back beyond that as far as Ride Managers handbooks are concerned.
Yes ... notice the "usually" and "typically."
>I have always been in favor of the 12 hour rule and continue to do so. (as
>you can see from my recent posts.)To me it is disconcerting to have
>persons, with inadequately prepared horses and/ or not properly prepared
>themselves, who are not willing to be prepared to COMPETE, be given the
>same recognition as those persons making the effort.
>If at my age (and that also includes Arlene and many others of like
>longevity such as Bill Ansenberger, Julie Suhr and Bob Suhr and many
>others), if we ask no quarter, no special conditions, then let the younger
>set, those wanting special considerations show why they REALLY need them.
>To finish is to win and winning is not a given in life
Bob, you're arguing against a straw man. The motivation for seeking
flexibility in the time limit is not to make it easy, or to reward
unprepared riders. It is to recognize that sh*t happens, and that
trail and weather conditions vary greatly, and that well-prepared
riders and horses can be unfairly penalized by *ARBITRARY* time
limits.
I don't agree with granting individual riders exceptions, no matter
how selfless an act they may have done (helping someone else) that
made them late. But the ride managers are in a far better position to
assess their trail and weather conditions than the AERC, and it is
impossible for any time limit set by the Board for *all rides* to
produce anything close to an equal degree of challenge. Nor does it
make sense IMO to penalize riders for vandalized trails; where is the
"challenge" in that? So when you say that flexibility in allowed
completion times would take challenge out of the sport, you are simply
wrong.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Subject: formalin/formaldehyde
I'm a bit late catching up on the postings due to snow. But I haven't
seen that anybody really understand what formaldehyde/formalin does.
Formalin is less than 37% formaldehyde usually in alcohol, usually
neutrally buffered (so that it's not acidic or basic).
Formalin/Formaldehyde perfuses and KILLS LIVE TISSUE. This means it
can go through skin and into the bloodstream and play havoc on your
liver. Or be inhaled, and kill lung tissue, and get into your
bloodstream and work on your liver. Think what it could do to you and
your horse if used consistently. Once in a while, in order to stop
white line or kill thrush should not be a problem. Used constantly
would not be advisable. Even at low concentrations, it retains its
ability to kill live tissue.
I always think twice about using anything on my horse that requires me
to wear gloves in order to be safe.
That is all I have to say. Just remember to be safe so you and your
horse can live and ride for as long as possible.
Linda-Cathrine
LLayman@NeoRx.com
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: "JERRY BARFIELD" <barfield@primenet.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:59:39 -0700
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Hey Jerry -
For what it's worth, and for all the opinions expressed on the subject, I
think you said it all! As a small breeder of "using" horses, I wish that
everyone had your wise approach to purchases! In all my years in the
business, I suspect that I have most frequently sold at a loss to good
homes because I love my animals, I love working with babies, and I hope
that customers who return satisfied will one day allow me to break even!
The costs of raising good animals is astronomical, and I am often
frustrated by shoppers who don't know the difference between a "lottery
ticket" as you said, and an animal that has had daily comprehensive care
since the minute of his or her birth. I rejoice in all persons rights to
choose the animal that is right for them: for their purse, for their
disposition and for their needs. I truly believe that a good match with a
horse is like a good marriage, and I know that my horses do not suit all
tastes (nor do I care to have many homes acquire my horses), but I get very
depressed sometimes when I continually hear that "breeders are making a
killing!" Thanks for stating it all so succinctly. Mary Burgess, Black
Bear Arabians, www.blackbeararabians.com
----------
From: JERRY BARFIELD <barfield@primenet.com>
To: 'RIDECAMP' <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Prospects/Prices/etc
Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 06:21 PM
Most every opinion has been expressed on this subject, but I wanted to add
my bit for all to consider.
1) Based on what it cost me to feed, worm, vaccinate, and take care of
feet, that $100 weanling will have cost you $5850 by the time he is 5
-assuming that you never had to call the vet and have the ability and
knowledge to do all training yourself. (If you figure out how to get a baby
through 5 years without doing something that requires vet treatment please
let me know) This option assumes that you either have a horse to ride for
the next five years or that you have much more time than money.
2) The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would not
lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect. The high
croups and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not
what get you to the other side of the mountain and back. Not to mention
the long cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring.
3) Development and conditioning are very important in this sport, but the
better raw material is going to yield a better end product. You can make a
usable knife from rock, but the steel version works much better and lasts
longer.
4) If you are going to go to a breeder for your horse, look for one that
has a program based on generations of using horses-one outstanding
individual does not make a program and does not materially increase the
odds that the offspring will have the good qualities that you are looking
for, but a program that for generations has produced horses with
predominately good performance qualities greatly increase the odds of
those being passed to the offspring.
5) If you are willing to pay for the "made horse', look to the rider,
trainer, or breeder with a record of longevity in their horses. I would
feel much better about the long term prospects of a horse purchased from
someone who finished in the top ten for 5 years on the same horse than I
would buying from the regional champion who rode a different horse every
year, especially if the horses from the past years where never heard from
again.
6) If you want to play the lottery you should be prepared for the very
real chance that you did not get the winning ticket. You might be the
lucky one; however, almost all of the riders that I know of in my area that
bought "bargain" horses have probably spent more time (and money) with the
vet, farrier, and riding back to base camp in trailers than they have on
rides.
7) Price, per se, does not guarantee a good horse: however, if you buy a
prospect from a program or individual with a good track record I believe
you greatly improve your chances and you are usually going to pay for the
knowledge and time devoted by the breeder/seller.
8) My comments are somewhat more applicable to those who want to compete
rather than just finish: however, I believe they would also apply to those
who would like to finish on the same horse for the next 15 years rather
than start over every few years. Each of you will have to make your
decision based on your personal situation and desires, I just wanted to
point out that the purchase price is only a small part of the costs
involved-don't forget time, follow-on expenses, and possible
disappointment.
9) For those who buy an older horse from whatever source-unless you know
the background do not assume that the hard tissues have been developed for
endurance riding. These horses still need a lot of LSD to be ready to go
fast, even if the heart, lungs, and muscles are ready, chances are the
tendons and ligaments are not. If you are willing to do competitions at a
moderate pace, you can certainly start much sooner than with a young horse,
but don't assume that strong muscles and good recoveries mean the horse is
fit to race.
Jerry Barfield
Southwind Arabians
Breeding Endurance Horses by Design
Member: Al-Marah Breeders Alliance
----------
her side of the mountain and back. Not to5626 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001721 06456773260 0013124 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.fea.net (mail.fea.net [209.60.128.7]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA29357 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:20:10 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:15:48 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
Reply-To: fourhorn@fea.net
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To: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
CC: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: sunscreen for horses
References: <199801131701.JAA26235@fsr.com>
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The Vervaet's wrote:
>
> VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
> I have a horse with a white face/nose. He gets sunburned in the summer.
> Should I use regular human sunscreen?
Human sunscreen is fine. I've used it quite liberaly with no problems.
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: digging to China
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:23:05 -0700
Message-ID: <01bd207a$337a6480$868287cf@willard>
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I looked at the rubber mats sold specifically for stalls and the conveyor
belts that we got are a lot heavier. Plus not only are they 4 ft wide-we
cut them 12 ft long, so they are twice as long as most stall mats. I do
agree that if you got belts that were only 1-2ft wide and/or not as long,
the horses could move them much easier.
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To: fourhorn@fea.net
Cc: VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: sunscreen for horses
Message-ID: <19980114.065054.11598.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801131701.JAA26235@fsr.com>
<34BBF5A4.5286@fea.net>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:52:25 EST
On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:15:48 -0800 Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net> writes:
>The Vervaet's wrote:
>>
>> VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
>> I have a horse with a white face/nose. He gets sunburned in the
>summer.
>> Should I use regular human sunscreen?
>
>Human sunscreen is fine. I've used it quite liberaly with no problems.
The only thing that helped my horse was taking him off clover. Never had
another problem, and he had been dealing with scabs from mid blaze down
and both socks.
Angie McGhee, and Kaboot, whose field has no grass clover or anything
else of value.
>
>
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id rma011851; Tue Jan 13 18:03:10 1998
Message-ID: <34BC006B.4FA0@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:01:47 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Osceola ride.,.question
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From: Jean Wonser
Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
The yellow trail was re-routed somewhat to avoid two areas with constant
water about mid cannon. This left about three stretches with periodic
water spots involving approximately 2,3,and 2 miles; This loop adds
the challenge of a creek crossing called Robinson Branch which must be
crossed as tagged or risk swimming. Two shetland ponys made the
crossing however and were seen in Camp after the ride.
*** Hi Jean and thanks for the great description of this ride. I spent
10 years in FLA and I know how these wetlands can change over time.
*** My question is: what does it mean to cross as tagged?
thanks!
Kimberly & Mystery the Morab
te: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:01:47 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
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From: Jean Wonser
Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
The yellow trail was re-routed somewhat to avoid two areas with constant
water about mid cannon. This lef5630 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000007520 06457002613 0013106 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from onramp.micoks.net (onramp.micoks.net [209.153.98.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA04140 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:23:34 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:22:33 -0600
To: Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Flooded and Blizzarded!
In-Reply-To: <199801131401_MC2-2F2A-5F5A@compuserve.com>
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In Kansas we are riding, two to three times a week outdoors. I haven't
ridden Star since Sunday and I'm going through withdrawals. If it is
raining, I might trailer him to an indoor arena to ride. I won't ride if it
is icy, but cold, wind and snow don't stop us if we have time to get out
there.
Like my training buddy says, if you don't ride in Kansas because it's too
hot or too cold, you lose 6 months of riding time.
In the winter we just bundle up -- I wear two or three layers of tights,
socks, turtlenecks, sweaters, etc., put an earwarmer under my helmet and
away we go. We don't look fashionable, but we are out there training.
chris paus & star
At 01:58 PM 1/13/98 -0500, Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com wrote:
> Hello all!
>
> I had to laugh out loud at the post from the Californian who said we
> easterners must be getting sick of hearing about the rain in southern
> CA. Not at all; I've really enjoyed the posts about the rained-out
> ride and the camaraderie that we're missing due to ol' man winter.
>
> This leads me to a question, though:
>
> Since my husband and I are new to all this (competing last year in
> about 3 CTRs), we're doing our best to keep our horses semi-fit thru
> the winter months. We are in western New York, and tend to get lots
> of lake effect snow (not so far this year -- thank you, El Nino, from
> those of us on the EAST coast!!), so we've got a few drops of borium
> on the shoes, and are ready to rock and roll. Unfortunately, our work
> has been inconsistent due to the weather. What are the rest of you
> doing to keep your horses fit (and you) during winter?
>
> Should we pack up in the trailer and try to get some work in in an
> indoor arena?
>
> Off the topic, I've been reading all the formaldehyde posts. Being a
> health and safety manager, I do feel qualified to say. This is nasty
> #*&!*!! (technical term). Not only a carcinogen, but a very potent
> eye irritant, as has been posted. Do try to use something else, but
> if you must, use impermeable gloves, and goggles if you can. Safety
> first, safety always.
>
> One last question . . . Being from western New York, we participated
> in one ECTRA clinic (in the Adirondacks), two AHAO rides (near
> Cleveland), and one NATRC ride (near Cleveland,too -- hats off to Pam
> Pintchuk, if you're out there -- this was a great ride!). We'd like
> to stay within about 6 hours of home, but find our ride options
> somewhat limited. Are there any or organizations out there that we
> are missing? Since we're just getting started and have fairly young
> horses (6 and 7), we're more in it for the fun of it, the miles, and
> having a pleasant time, do let us know if we're missing any rides in
> our area which are known as "a good time."
>
> Thanks to all for your help!
>
> Patti Carey-Stedman and (Belgian/TB) Tess (looking like a cross
> between a woolly mammoth and Snuffleluffagus from Sesame Street)
>
>
>
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1fdba2e1.34bc05fd@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:25:30 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Fwd: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:12:12 EST
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Hi, Steph--
I personally have VERY STRONG feelings about the completion time rule. I
think the current blind eye that is turned toward it is DEPLORABLE and that
the fact that AERC does not stick to its rules and DQ the riders who don't
make it in makes us a laughingstock at times.
As to extenuating circumstances, I feel sorry when bad things happen to good
people, but that is the breaks. A rule such as you propose sounds nice, but
it is a foot in the door for a situation that is already, in my opinion, out
of hand. 12 hours to do a 50 is sufficient to walk and jog the whole thing,
given a horse with a decent walk (the most neglected gait of our endurance
horses, in my opinion), and likewise on 100's. AERC already has a clause
where ride managers can postpone the ride for a day if there are acts of God,
intolerable weather, etc.--perhaps this should be used more.
I hope the time limit rule stays in place and that AERC somewhere gets the
guts to enforce it--otherwise, where is the challenge and what have we
completed? We become just another long trail ride if there are no standards.
(Kinda like the dumbing down in the schools--poor Johnny is a nice kid, and
showed up for school every day, so sorry he was only able to earn 65%, but we
should pass him because he tried so hard....) Nothing says ride managers
can't give completion awards and cudos to such folks, but please, no AERC
completion credit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heidi
Heidi
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From: WWArabsrun <WWArabsrun@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fc24b46e.34bc087c@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:36:10 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Used Saddle exchange and Beer/Bluegrass Bash
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Just a note to remind everyone that we will be having the used saddle exchange
at the convention. Bring your saddle, and a portable stand(if possible) have
the info, name and price on the card. we will have an area near the AERC
booth. You can look for Amy Whelan or Connie Caudill to get any info you need.
a small commision will go to AERC (5%) great way to find or sell a saddle /
Daniel Boone Distance Riders will be hosting a Beer and Bluegrass Bash prior
to the friday night awards banquet. free beer while it last and blue grass
music. come mingle and enjoy the music............................
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Message-ID: <34BC0AE7.C6BF7A9E@swva.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 19:46:31 -0500
From: Susan Felker <felker@swva.net>
Reply-To: felker@swva.net
Organization: Black Ridge Arabians
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To: "ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Horse(s) wanted; possible trade
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I have a friend who would like a seasoned horse calm enough for
beginners. One that is no longer able to do 50s or 100s, or just never
had the dispositon for it, but maybe could do competitive trail rides or
25s would be fine. She has had horses virtually all her life, lives in
the country, treats her horses very well, and would not sell if that is
part of the deal.
I personally would be interested in a similar horse, but a mare, and
might be willing to trade a 3-year-old filly started under saddle. This
filly is a sweetheart, very calm and willing. Was imprinted. She has
been clipped, bathed, etc. She is grey, with Egyptian, Crabbet, and
Polish racing bloodlines (Moniet El Nefous, Rissalix, Partner, *Forsa).
Since we are breeders, I can't justify keeping geldings to IRS, so I
would need a mare. This would be a horse for my husband, who is a
beginner, to ride. A horse that could just do short trail rides--maybe
no more than 10 miles, would be fine in this case.
Thanks to all who reply
Susan Felker
Black Ridge Arabians
http://www.swva.net/blackridge felker@swva.net
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:59:42 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Endurance List <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: For vets, males, and stallion owners
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I hesitate to ask this question, however, I have been unable to find an
answer anywhere else, so....
After the third day of the Death Valley ride my stallion's balls were
EXTREMELY hard (not everything, just his balls). They were not drawn up
into his body (which is what he does when it is cold--and I consider
normal), but hanging quite low and hard as rocks. They were a normal
temperature but a little bit (not much) more sensitive to the touch than
usual.
Can anybody tell me if this is a not unusual phenomenon after exercise
(never noticed it before, but then I don't check after every ride), or if
it is a normal occurance for some other reason....or is this something
that I should be concerned about?
Sorry for the rather indelicate question, but I couldn't think of any
other way to ask it.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:15:24 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Rice Brand Tranquilizer
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I am now riding my wife's horse, Jordy. He can be quite hyper at times. I
have been told that rice brand has a calming effect on many horses and I
should give it a try. Of course this was by the rep from Seminole feeds
that mills their own rice brand supplement so, needless to say, the opinion
is not without bias.
Has anyone else notice such an effect?
Truman
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From: Keeyun <Keeyun@aol.com>
Message-ID: <de3de1d4.34bc250d@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:37:31 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: how to rate
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I will be doing a 25. My first. I have many questions. But right now I would
like to know about rateing(sp). How fast should I be going. I know I have to
allow time for the p&r stops. The time frame is 3:45 - 4:30. I am not sure
how many stops there will be at this ride. Is it best to try and keep a
constant rate? I know if I trot at 7 miles an hour that this will give me 28
miles in 4 hours. Will this allow enough time for the P&R stops. Also is
this a feasible rate?
Thanks Kelly
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From: Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
Message-ID: <66309100.34bc3de6@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 23:24:01 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Cc: Arabryder@aol.com
Subject: Re: Formalin??
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My husband is a farrier and thinks thrush buster is the best thing to use on
horses' feet (for thrush
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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:30:49 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: gpotter@pacifier.com (George Potter)
Subject: Paulina Lake, OR
-------------------------
Hi, all!
We're planning a horse camping trip to Paulina Lake near Bend, OR this
summer. Has anyone ridden these trails? I have heard that they hold
endurance races there around July 4. I would like first had accounts of
what to expect on the trails. Have heard that they are REALLY dry and
dusty. Little water available on the trails?
Would love to hear from you! Can post me privately if you wish.
Thanks!
Christy
Astoria, OR
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From: "Wilcocks, Carol" <cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Young horses etc....
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 13:29:00 PST
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Trish,
I too have a young horse, and although he was broken in at 3yo, he's now 4 yo
and a total handful! I am going to send him to a very tough trainer before I
do any more ridden work on him. He scares me, I admit it, and after reading
about all the others who are in similar positions to myself with green
horses, I think I am going to up my health insurance! I have ridden him twice
and he's fast and very floaty, I feel like his feet are way off the ground,
and he likes to barrel around whilst evading the bit. He's also a real up-on-
his-toes shier. My mare can shy from one side of a track to the other, but
this guy is something else, and I can feel his terror - he even 'roars' with
arched neck and flared to the max nostrils. On the ground he is a puppy dog,
except if you take him away from his familiar surroundings, in which case he
does his shying and 'roaring' thing all over you! I will not keep him if I
feel he's too much of a handful after the trainer and some work, as I agree
that my skin is worth more than keeping a green horse just for the sake of
my ego, or because he's very pretty - I think he's probably a lot like your
David! I have been using the round pen JLyons lead mare thing with much
success, but this does not change his attitude once mounted. It is quite
difficult to get hold of JLyons info here in Australia, so any suggestions
would be most welcome. If you do not have the money for a round pen right
away, you could try what I did and use star steel pickets for the uprights
with 3 runs of electric tape and a tape 'gate', which can then be attatched
to a portable unit, or not electrified at all, which none of my horses have
even questioned. I can free lunge, stop, turn etc. even with my young fella,
and it's relatively inexpensive and portable. I've even used it for teaching
hobbles. Good luck,
Carol and the
gang.
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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:54:02 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801140554.VAA18852@fsr.com>
Subject: convention - roommate
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Russ Humphrey
Email: russ@doublejoy.com
Anyone out there have space for / want to share room expenses during the convention? I'll be arriving Thurs late (10:30 pm, and leaving Sun am early).
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:57:00 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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another comment.. I THOUGHT the original concept of the time.. was to ride at
a MIN speed of 5mph.. thus the 24 hrs for 100 miles.. did the founders .. ie
Wendal and Co.. consider all the vet stops.. AHA-- TEVIS has GATE and go ??
like in no holds but 2 ? or 3?.. so you could vet through and stay on the
traill.. of course you may NOT make it..
What were the races of ole like --no holds right? gate and go or a fixed hold
time without regard to recovery? Was the hold time in the 24hrs? or was it-
24hrs Riding TIME..
The HOLD system we use cuts into that time..and we are now making that time
LONGER .. since we found out the horses need to rest more..some hold times are
40 min to an hour..
I think the OD100 has 6 or 7 VC with a total hold time of about 2 hrs.. not
validated..but that cuts into the on trail time. its a real job to finish the
it..
BUT then REAL endurnace riders do ALL the 100 milers in what --10 hrs.. right
?
HA
Roger R
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a489b0a6.34bc61bd@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:56:58 EST
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-13 02:22:39 EST, jlong@mti.net writes:
<< I will support you in any way I can, but unless attitudes on the
Board have changed you have an uphill fight.
>>
Well after much in-house dissusion here with Carol.. We DO remember when ride
mgrs had the ability to set ride time based on the number and length of
holds.. AND the conditions.
I kinda thought the way it went back here east/ NE.. was-- as long as the
actual ride time.. read riding time on the trail..not total elasped time
---was 24 hrs for the 100 miles .. then the total elasped time could be longer
then 24 hrs..
We were not big time into endurance back in the 70's.. but I thought that was
the way it was done.
Could see how it may be abused..
I know for a fact many riders-- ride mgrs- do fudge the time.. the clock gets
stuck at 23:59.. or 11:59..
SOme rides give you the ride completion but not AERC completion.
The LD's here in the SE.. almost never have someone over time..
The postiton is the LD is a learning ride and not a real race.. and it does
not count on the 'open' year end awards or mileage outside of the LD
program..Why not let them 'finish'
Of course in CTR --NATRC.. if you are over time..there is no break given..
not even 30 seconds.. been there done that..
I would like to take the hard line like the old timer hard liner Bob.. and
say well try next year.. and that has happened.. to me..as a rider and mgr
We ran a ride in PA.. we had to be the bad guy and cut -DNF- a number of
riders on our ride each year because of over time.. we stuck by the 12 hrs no
breaks. Riders got lost -- they did not follow ribbons.. you all know how
that goes..
or just did not work hard enough to make the time-- ride too tough??not
ready??
However there may be times when a legal out should apply..
This is NOT WW2 MARINES ---Bob..
Ride managers should be able to adjust times.
Not so sure the ride time should change AFTER the start.. has been done
before.. some riders miss the word and run in to make the 12/24 hr to find out
others 'were told' they had another hr.. not fair.. to those who pushed their
horses to make the cut off..finish time
OD 50 2 yrs ago had bad trail damage- ribbons gone.. the word was there would
be a time ext to 13 hrs.. SInce I was running slow.. and did figure out the
trail used the map and knew we had to go north not south.. look at the sun..
I carry a compass too.. so I figured out the trail.. but lost about 30
minutes..
I was NOT going to trust the 'mgmt' at the last vet check.. and decided to
finish in 12.. I passed MANY riders on the way in..WHO THOUGHT they had extra
time..
The ride time was 12hrs as posted..
Should they have been able to allow another hr?? offical..How do you get the
word to all the riders who left the last VC to not push it in
TOO much burden on the staff.
In ECTRA we could change the times UNTIL the first rider went out.. then it
was too bad.. no matter what --ride mgr could not change the time.. They would
petiton the BOD AFTER the ride asking for completion only-- for those that did
make make it on time due to 'problems'. THey did not get placing points..
Seemed fair.
Some sort of offical recourse should be allowed.. for completion mileage
only.
Management may be able to pass the request to the BOD? for an approval based
on the conditions that caused the problem.
Therefore Steph.. lets go for it.. WE are AERC.. Get new attitudes on the
BOD.. read new faces?? BUT WHO wants to run?? and put up with us email
radicals??
Think we CANT change the rules.. think again.. NATRC THOUGHT they would NEVER
change the electrolyte or EasyBoot rule.. HA its a done deal.
IF the riders put on the pressure the change will come.
This should be fixed so the policy works for all.. above board.. not under the
table and fudge the completions.
Roger R
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:30:51 -0800
From: Jerry & Susan Milam <jdmilam@fwb.gulf.net>
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To: Keeyun <Keeyun@aol.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: how to rate
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Keeyun wrote:
>
> I will be doing a 25. My first. I have many questions. But right now I would
> like to know about rateing(sp). How fast should I be going. I know I have to
> allow time for the p&r stops. The time frame is 3:45 - 4:30. I am not sure how many stops there will be at this ride. Is it best to try and keep a constant rate? I know if I trot at 7 miles an hour that this will give me 28 miles in 4 hours. Will this allow enough time for the P&R stops. Also is this a feasible rate?
> Thanks Kelly
Kelly,
If you have a good training base on your horse you should be able to do
an 8mph pace without diff. Aim for 6-8mph and you'll be doing great and
have a great time.
You should only have one vet check before your final vet check at your
LD ride.
Have fun and enjoy it:)
Susan and the Fly Bye
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:36:24 -0800
From: Jerry & Susan Milam <jdmilam@fwb.gulf.net>
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To: "Wilcocks, Carol" <cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au>
CC: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Young horses etc....
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Carol,
Please send your young horse to a GOOD trainer...not a TOUGH trainer.
A lot of what you describe in your youngster is just pure youth. Riding
and more riding will help the most. Ride in an environment where you are
in control and use the mildest bit your horse will respond to you with.
Just ride, ride, ride and keep teaching him what YOU want him to learn:)
He sounds just like my 4yo:)
Happy Tails
Susan and the Fly Bye
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From: "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: prospect prices
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:57:15 -0600
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Why are people writing about the show horses?
What about the breeders out there who are selecting for straight legs, bone
and endurance qualities?
The Bumgardners have been breeding endurance horses for many, many years.
They are awesome endurance horses who last forever, win in endurance, and
are winning on the track. The Crockett's are also breeding wonderful
endurance horses, etc. There are many breeders throughout the country.
They sell these horses very reasonably, usually less than what it cost to
raise them. I wonder how long they will continue to breed at a loss????
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:39:04 -0500
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From: Kimberly Huck <khuck@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #39
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>------------------------------
Paula,
We buy "No Ad" sunscreen from Eckerds Drug Stores. It's cheap and it
works great! Kim.
>
>VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
>I have a horse with a white face/nose. He gets sunburned in the summer.
>Should I use regular human sunscreen? Is there a product designed for
>horses that anyone's tried?
>Paula
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:31:08 -0500
>From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
>To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: bit to hackamore
>Message-Id: <199801131708.JAA27738@fsr.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
>I want to try a hackamore on horses that have been previously ridden in
>bits (mild types). Any suggestions in change over? Do I just "do it", or
>is there something that I should do in-between to help adjust them to it?
>What type would everyone recommend....mechanical hacks.....or other types?
>Thanks
>Paula
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:50:55 EST
>From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
>To: barfield@primenet.com
>Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
>Message-ID: <36f2f3cf.34bb8d60@aol.com>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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>
>In a message dated 98-01-13 02:31:27 EST, you write:
>
><< The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would not
>lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect. The high croups
>and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not what get
>you to the other side of the mountain and back. Not to mention the long
>cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring. >>
>AMEN to THIS - been there and seen it all!
>sandy
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:45 EST
>From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
>To: barfield@primenet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
>Message-ID: <9a741d86.34bb9d46@aol.com>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
>In a message dated 98-01-13 04:04:34 EST, you write:
>
><< The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would not
>lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect. The high croups
>and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not what get
>you to the other side of the mountain and back. Not to mention the long
>cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring. >>
>
>Also, the "show breeders" no NOTHING when it comes to performance
>conformation...neither do the judges. PLUS, many of these horses are OVERFED
>and STEROIDED to increase early growth...too much too soon. They are, IMO,
>NOT a good prospect (unless you are lucky enought to get the NICE one when he
>is 3 months old - even then, the MARE is often overfed to produce a bigger
>foal - that is transmitted on to a foal that is asked to grow to soon too
fast
>BEFORE he is born).
>
>Teddy
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:47 EST
>From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
>To: bobmorris@rmci.net, equine_athletes@hotmail.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>Message-ID: <dc331886.34bb9d49@aol.com>
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
>In a message dated 98-01-13 04:04:42 EST, bobmorris@rmci.net writes:
>
><<
> Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This is
> ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have every
> thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
> may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding was
> not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is "if
> I don't finish I will complain".
>
> Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
> >>
>
>Maybe it did, Bob. BUT, consider the expertise of ride managers (some
>judgements regarding trail difficulty not made well, MANY courses not
measured
>well) and course designers (ditto) and good old mother nature....there ARE
>instances when times cannot be met through NO fault or decision on the
part of
>the rider. I still vote for total RIDING time, not just total time.
>
>Teddy
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:59:15 -0700
>From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
>To: "Steph Teeter" <step@fsr.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>Message-Id: <199801132001.MAA15086@fsr.com>
>
>Steph & Ride Camp:
>
>Long before the Trilby/Les episodes (my apologies to you both, but this is
>how it is recognized) I find in the 1980 Ride Managers Handbook (Jim
>Remillard was AERC Pres.) the following:
>
>A prescribed maximum time is usually set for completion of the ride.
>Typically this is 12 hours for 50 miles, and 24 hours for 100 miles
>
>This was an offshoot of the Tevis "100 miles in one day". My records do not
>extend back beyond that as far as Ride Managers handbooks are concerned.
>
>I have always been in favor of the 12 hour rule and continue to do so. (as
>you can see from my recent posts.)To me it is disconcerting to have
>persons, with inadequately prepared horses and/ or not properly prepared
>themselves, who are not willing to be prepared to COMPETE, be given the
>same recognition as those persons making the effort.
>
>If at my age (and that also includes Arlene and many others of like
>longevity such as Bill Ansenberger, Julie Suhr and Bob Suhr and many
>others), if we ask no quarter, no special conditions, then let the younger
>set, those wanting special considerations show why they REALLY need them.
>
>To finish is to win and winning is not a given in life
>
>Bob Morris
>Morris Endurance Enterprises
>Boise, ID
>
>----------
>> From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
>> To: 'bobmorris@rmci.net'; ridecamp@endurance.net
>> Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 11:23 AM
>>
>> Bob - I have a couple questions for you:
>>
>> As Joe Long pointed out, there was originally NO time limit
>> imposed by AERC. The rule came about because of individuals
>> trying to ride a billion miles in one season, and the only way
>> they could do it was if they walked the entire course. So they
>> did, and it kept ride managers up all night and drove everyone
>> crazy.
>>
>> So, were you in favor of the new time limit rule when it was
>> proposed? I assume you were competing at the time. And
>> if so, why was 12 hours the magic number? This is still a
>> pretty slow pace for a *real* endurance ride.... and when the
>> rule was originally put in place, did it address the question
>> of variation in hold times, or did that come about later?
>>
>> st
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert J. Morris [SMTP:bobmorris@rmci.net]
>> Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 9:00 PM
>> To: Linda Van Ceylon; ridecamp@endurance.net
>> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>>
>> Linda and Ride Camp:
>>
>> I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire rule
>> 61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not those
>> finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!! Ramey , you should know
>better!!
>>
>> <<The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of
>> courses we have>>
>>
>> This is the name of the game, meet the challenge and endure. No one said
>> the bear in the cave you enter would be in a good mood!!!
>>
>> <<Then if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets
>really
>> bad, etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
>
>> rule.>>
>>
>> This is ENDURANCE RIDING, not a therapy session to make every one feel
>> good. Adversity builds character and personal strength. These excuses,
>and
>> they are really excuses, would be a crutch for those with out strength,
>> with out the ability to take things as they occur. If I do not finish a
>> ride it is MY fault, not the fact there was not enough time, the trail
>was
>> mismarked, the weather was bad etc. IT WAS MY FAULT AND I DO NOT NEED AN
>> EXCUSE!!!
>>
>> <<> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more
>> discussion.>>>
>>
>> Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This
>is
>> ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
>every
>> thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
>> may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
>was
>> not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
>"if
>> I don't finish I will complain".
>>
>> Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
>>
>> Bob Morris
>> Morris Endurance Enterprises
>> Boise, ID
>>
>> ----------
>> > From: Linda Van Ceylon <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
>> > To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>> > Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>> > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 8:21 PM
>> >
>> > Hi Steph,
>> >
>> > I think Ramey's argument is sound. We already have a rule to deal with
>
>> > the overtime situation. It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but,
>to
>> > me, it seems clear.
>> >
>> > . And, it seems in some cases, there is a great
>> > variation of the number of feet in a mile. Here in our area, there are
>
>> > 5,280 ft. per mile. That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over 4
>
>> > hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win. Granted, sometimes
>> > there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are
>> > miscalculated. But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage
>> > accurate.
>> >
>> > On a really tough course, with two vet holds, it is really easy to be
>> > pushing the 12 hour envelope. The suggestions of other ride managers,
>> > and many riders, seems to be "just make the course shorter, no one will
>
>> > ever complain about a course that is too short". Well, I just don't
>> > think this is right.
>> >
>> > In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the
>
>> > rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. Then
>> > if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,
>
>> > etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
>> > rule.
>> >
>> > We have particular problems with LD rides. Because, when you include
>> > the hold times in the total 6 hours they get, this magnifies the speed
>> > they are actually doing on the course compared to the longer distances.
>
>> > Let's say you have 2 vc's in your 25-miler and your 50-miler. At 1.5
>> > hours total hold time, the 50's must average 4.76 mph but, the 25's
>must
>> > average 5.55 mph. while they are on the trail. The 25's have to "go
>> > like h..." to meet the cut-off. This is not in keeping with my
>> > philosophy of the purpose of LD.
>> >
>> > I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more discussion.
>> >
>> > Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
>> > Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
>> > 2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
>> > 970-226-1099
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________________
>> > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:07:31 +0100
>From: Leonard.LIESENS@DG10.cec.be
>To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: Orthoflex new pad system
>Message-ID:
<WIN938-980113190802-64AD*/G=Leonard/S=LIESENS/O=DG10/PRMD=CEC/ADMD=RTT/C=BE
/@MHS>
>Content-Identifier: Orthoflex new pa
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>I gor finally my Orthoflex saddle. Wonderful. exactly what I was expecting
as color, but their new pad system...
>
>The one I rode during the Tevis had booties and the whole system was
looking perfect and did peerfectly work, I mean for Sukaro HCC, Steph's
arab gelding.
>
>But now they changed this and the saddle was delivered with a so_called
'numnah' which is made of 2 parts :
>- one is a white fleece shaped as a saddle with felt on one side and
something looking like wool (but it can be synthetic as well) on the other
side.
>- the other part is something looking like a regular dressage/jumping
saddle pas, but with a whole shaped as a saddle in the middle and velcro
attachments.
>
>No schema, no explanation or getting started to be found...
>
>I think that the white fleece goes on the horse with the whole part in
contact of the horse and the felt in contact with the panelling system.
>
>The pad with the whole seems to be there only as a finishing touch, maybe
to protect or hide the panelling system and presumely goes on top of the
first pad and around the saddle.
>
>Are other ridecamp buddies experimenting this new system and can you tell
me if I am right or not.
>
>Thanks for help
>
>Leonard, from Belgium
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:50:24 -0800 (PST)
>From: guest@endurance.net
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Osceola National Forest post; Osceola l00 results Post;
>Message-Id: <199801132050.MAA17760@fsr.com>
>
>PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
>You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>
>From: Jean Wonser
>Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
>
> Please determine the problem as the two above news items do not appear on
the Archives other than their respective titles (January l2 and l3, l998).
As a browser I'd like to read the results. etc.
>
>Thanks
>Jean Wonser
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:05:10 -0800
>From: charla cranor <arabian@flash.net>
>To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
>Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980113210510.006b1e14@pop.flash.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Becky Hackworth is considering taking on this ride with alot of help.
>I would e-mail her. Her husband already arranges all the entertainment
>,and activities on 32nd St. Naval Base.
>
>Charla Cranor
>Alpine, Ca.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 08:28 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>> If the ride were ever to be held again, the ride mgr or spouse must be
>>> in the military, dunno whether it has to be an officer or not, since it
>>> takes place on the military reservation.
>>
>>
>>Is it just a matter of having someone in the RM's group be military?
>>David is Navy Reserve, AND an officer and drills all the time at
>>Pendleton. He definitely has the connections, but neither of us are
>>experienced enough to just jump in and say, Shazam, we're ride
>>managers. But if it's a matter of just needing someone involved with
>>all the right connections...well, those we got.
>>
>>Susan Garlinghouse
>>
>>
>>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:22:19 -0800
>From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
>To: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
>CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: digging to China
>Message-ID: <34BBDB0B.5A35@fea.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Craig W. Hadley wrote:
> He said that every so often they have to
>> change out their rubber conveyor belts. He put our name on a waiting
>
>
>I know a few people who use rubber conveyor belts in their stall. They
>do a good job but are easier for the horse to move around then the
>heavier rubber mats.
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:45:58 GMT
>From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>Message-ID: <34c4dfda.353466788@mail.mti.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:00:08 -0700, "Robert J. Morris"
><bobmorris@rmci.net> wrote:
>
>>Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This is
>>ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have every
>>thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
>>may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding was
>>not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is "if
>>I don't finish I will complain".
>
>Bob, you know I've often agreed with you in the past about the
>challenge of *endurance* ... but that challenge is a real challenge,
>against the trail. We don't need arbitrary rules or barriers to
>produce it. The "good old days" when trails were tough and no one
>complained (did they really exist?) also were the days when the AERC
>didn't have a riding time rule.
>
>--
>
>Joe Long
>jlong@mti.net
>http://www.mti.net Business
>http://www.rnbw.com Personal
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:48:00 GMT
>From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>Message-ID: <34c5e098.353656300@mail.mti.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:02 -0700, Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
><ramey@wvi.com> wrote:
>
>>Gosh Bob, maybe I goofed. But I quoted the entire Rule 6.1 in my post
>>to Steph. Could you point out the additional langauge that limits Rule
>>6.1 to Top Ten Finishers?
>
>>Save yourself the effort, Bob, it's not there. Your argument is based
>>upon your personal interpretation and understanding of the rules.
>
>Rule 6.1 isn't limited to Top Ten, but the AERC Board has always held
>that it doesn't allow exceptions to the time limit, either. Perhaps
>that needs to be made more clear, but I wouldn't advise a ride manager
>trying to allow an overtime completion based on it.
>
>--
>
>Joe Long
>jlong@mti.net
>http://www.mti.net Business
>http://www.rnbw.com Personal
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:02 -0700
>From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
>To: bobmorris@rmci.net
>CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>Message-ID: <34BBD6B8.7E50@wvi.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>Gosh Bob, maybe I goofed. But I quoted the entire Rule 6.1 in my post
>to Steph. Could you point out the additional langauge that limits Rule
>6.1 to Top Ten Finishers?
>
>Save yourself the effort, Bob, it's not there. Your argument is based
>upon your personal interpretation and understanding of the rules.
>
>My discussion was based on the actual words of the rule itself. Nothing
>in the rule limits it's application to top ten finishers, they are only
>mentioned. Since the rule was adopted as written, it is subject to my,
>as well as your, interpretation. In other words it is ambiguous.
>
>You might note that in most cases a court will reverse any sanction
>issued to a rider based upon an alledged violation of an ambiguously
>written rule.
>
>So now I suppose you will argue we should all know what the rules mean
>regardless of what they say. Skip it, Bob, I've heard that one before.
>
>Ramey.
>
>--------------------------------
>End of ridecamp-d Digest V98 Issue #39
>**************************************
>
>
- feedback wanted
>> > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 8:21 PM
>> >
>> > Hi Steph,
>> >
>> > I think Ramey's argument is sound. We already have a rule to deal with
>
>> > the overtime situation. It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but,
>to
>> > me, it seems clear.
>> >
>> > . And, it seems in some cases, there is a great
>> > variation of the number of feet in a mile. Here in our area, t5647 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001644 06457141450 0013122 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA02116 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 05:52:36 -0800 (PST)
From: MBowers472 <MBowers472@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4cb50fbb.34bcc2b9@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:50:47 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: total ride time
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I have not been able to download and read all the has been said about total
ride time, for instance, I can;t read Joe Long's letter. The board has looked
at this from every angle -many times since I have been on the board. We have
arrived at the conclusion each time that the current rule is the better
choice. That doen't make it better, but we have spent much time on the issue,
and the 24 of us came to that conclusion.
Vonita
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:16:37 -0600 (CST)
To: patfred@snowcrest.net, step@fsr.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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After watching the completion time rule boil on ride comp can or should we
ask the question: In the past couple of years has there been an instance
where the current rules did not handle the problem? If so where, what
happened and how was it resolved. Maybe we are working ourselves into a
froth over an issue that isn't an issue. Much todo aver nothing? Jerry
Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:22:52 PST
Bob & All,
>Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
>From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
>To: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>,
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:00:08 -0700
>
>Linda and Ride Camp:
>
>I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire
rule
>61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not
those
>finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!! Ramey , you should know
better!!
>
><<The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of
>courses we have>>
>
>This is the name of the game, meet the challenge and endure. No one
said
>the bear in the cave you enter would be in a good mood!!!>
Bob, I'm well aware of the name of the game. And, believe it or not,
I'm trying to keep it that way. What RM's try to deal with, on a ride
by ride basis, is offering the riders (customers) a FAIR challenge.
However, RM's will not get lot's of repeat customers, if they come to a
challenging ride and are DQ'd for over-time when the problems were due
to extenuating circumstances and are not fault of the RM or the rider.
It is much harder to put on a ride these days, than it was 10-15 years
ago, at least in this area it is.
>
><<Then if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets
really
>bad, etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to
the
>rule.>>
>
>This is ENDURANCE RIDING, not a therapy session to make every one feel
>good. Adversity builds character and personal strength. These excuses,
and
>they are really excuses, would be a crutch for those with out strength,
>with out the ability to take things as they occur. If I do not finish a
>ride it is MY fault, not the fact there was not enough time, the trail
was
>mismarked, the weather was bad etc. IT WAS MY FAULT AND I DO NOT NEED
AN
>EXCUSE!!!>
I must say that having you at a ride must be a ride manager's dream.
You are definitely, one in a million (or at least 1,000).
>
><<> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more
>discussion.>>>
>
>Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This
is
>ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
every
>thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the
thing
>may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
was
>not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
"if
>I don't finish I will complain".>
I agree, the riders do need a new attitude, for the most part. They are
spoiled. Why should they go to a ride that is really 50 miles of rugged
trail, and finish in 12.5 hours, for no completion. When they can go
to another ride that is just maybe, but not really 50 miles, and finish
easily in 5.5 hours. Personally, I'd prefer to go do nothing but the
tougher rides. But, there must be a balance. We need the flexibility
of ride management discretion on completion time. We need the repeat
customers if we are to continue to put on rides. I think it would be a
shame to loose the few tough rides we have left!
>
>Guess being a Marine spoiled me.>
I think the Marine Corps must have softened up a bit since your time,
Bob. Two of the biggest whiners I know are middle-aged ex-Marines.
Now, I'm not saying all Marines complain. Just the ones I know;-)
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
98 14:22:57 -0000
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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To: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: Re: Overdrive
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
When your husband says never haul in overdrive ('97 Ford Powerstroke and
hauling 6,000 pounds) does he REALLY mean that when I'm cruising on a nearly
level road with my diesel tach about 1200 and speedometer 65-ish I should
throw it out of overdrive????? (As soon as it does indicate we're under
load, I put it out of overdrive and keep it there 'till we're in the
previous situation.)
Barbara
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From: "Linda Van Ceylon" <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net, VMAXEPT@aol.com
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Content-Type: text/plain
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 06:53:24 PST
>From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 01:57:00 EST
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>
>another comment.. I THOUGHT the original concept of the time.. was to
ride at
>a MIN speed of 5mph.. thus the 24 hrs for 100 miles.. did the founders
.. ie
>Wendal and Co.. consider all the vet stops.. AHA-- TEVIS has GATE and
go ??
>like in no holds but 2 ? or 3?.. so you could vet through and stay on
the
>traill.. of course you may NOT make it..
>What were the races of ole like --no holds right? gate and go or a
fixed hold
>time without regard to recovery? Was the hold time in the 24hrs? or
was it-
>24hrs Riding TIME..>>
Roger & All.
Another aspect you must consider. I have it from reliable sources that
some older Tevis courses were only 87 miles (although they called it
100). Can you see where this further invalidates the 24 hour rule?
Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
970-226-1099
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:11:18 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
I feel the time limit is very valid and should stand as is for a ride that
is properly measured and where there are not situtations that arise that
are out of control of RM. But for situtations such as Very violent thunder
storms, serious trail vandalism, etc., I feel ride RM needs the ability to,
well manage his ride.
In the case of a serious thunder storm, which we can have any day of the
year in FL - the lightening capital of the world - it may not be safe to
send the riders back on trail. So we are talking about extending a hold
time so that we would keep every one in a shelter area - assuming a vet
check was such an area. That way we could get all the horses and people
killed with one strike. Seriously, would it be fair to charage this
"official time out" to the riders.
When trail markers are vandalized and riders are taken off trail and dumped
into the woods, only to wonder around for some time is it fair to penalize
them. I can hear the arguments about this is endurance riding and being
able to navagate in the woods is part of the sport and this is a sport
where men are men and the sheep are nervious. But the point is it is the
responsibility of RM to ensure a level playing field and if some portion of
the riders have well marked trail and another doesn't because of trail
vandalize, then is it fair to further penalize the effected riders? I can
make an argument for a protest in this situtation.
My suggestion is the current rule is fine as long as there is sufficient
leeway for ride managers to manage their rides.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:16:04 -0500
To: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: Overdrive
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
>When your husband says never haul in overdrive ('97 Ford Powerstroke and
>hauling 6,000 pounds) does he REALLY mean that when I'm cruising on a nearly
>level road with my diesel tach about 1200 and speedometer 65-ish I should
>throw it out of overdrive????? (As soon as it does indicate we're under
>load, I put it out of overdrive and keep it there 'till we're in the
>previous situation.)
>
>Barbara
When the powerstorke is acellerating at 65 mph in overdrive I don't see
much sense in dropping it out of OD. I don't know about other people with
this engine, but I can put the sucker in cruse at 65 to 70 in OD and it
just purrs on down the road. At 65 I am running at about 2000 rmp (411
rear end with the automatic).
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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To: Bar5654 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002200 06457153416 0013112 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from flagship.deruyter.k12.ny.us (flagship.deryuter.k12.ny.us [205.232.163.3] (may be forged)) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA07253 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:17:30 -0800 (PST)
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From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: automatic vs standard transmissions for hauling
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:40:27 -0500
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VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
I'm looking for opinions (and probably will get a few) regarding pros and
cons of automatic transmissions vs standard when hauling a horse trailer.
We have a 3 horse/slant load/extra long gooseneck trailer (all aluminum).
We're "discussing" our next truck and have somewhat opposing opinions, so
tell us yours!
Paula
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:38:37 -0700 (MST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
Subject: Old Kauai Ride
Hi,
Does anyone rememember the name of the gal in Kauai who used to put on the
endurance ride there?
Anne and the Horses
Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d22db5af.34bcdd1e@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:43:24 EST
To: gpotter@pacifier.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Paulina Lake, OR
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Hi, Christy--
I am the ride manager of the Paulina Peak Ride. It is not held until the
weekend after Labor Day. There used to be a ride held July 4th but it only
utilized the trails below the rim. The North Rim Trail in particular is often
not clear of snow until late July or early August.
There is NO water on the trails. There is, however, a horse campground inside
the crater called Chief Paulina Horse Camp, and there is water there. It has
good camping facilities for people riding the area with horses and connects
right into the trail system. The campgrounds are operated by a private group
called Northwest Land Management on behalf of the Forest Service; you can get
their number by calling the Deschutes National Forest in Bend. There is a fee
(not too high, as I recall) and they do take reservations.
Be advised that the Forest Service DOES NOT clear the trails! There is
frequently heavy downfall. Some years Oregon Equestrian Trails clear some of
the trails around the horse camp. I personally do the rest, unless I am lucky
enough to get a hand from other endurance people. (Just to give you an
idea--last year before the Pan-Am Championship held over those trails, over
200 man-hours were put in by our group clearing that trail system.) We do not
do this until just before our ride. Last year the Forest Service did utilize
the Youth Conservation Corps to clear the upper part of the Paulina Creek
Trail and a small portion of the North Rim--they did not do this until August.
This is really a beautiful area--I am sure you will enjoy it. If I can be of
any further help, please feel free to contact me.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7253b9f4.34bcdff1@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:55:27 EST
To: VMAXEPT@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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FYI--In the "old" days (been doing this for a quarter of a century, so I guess
that qualifies) ALL the holds were mandatory, all LONG holds were one hour,
and short holds ranged from 10 to 20 minutes. Often we had more total hold
time than we do now, so the theory that we used to have more time on the trail
doesn't wash.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b2953a31.34bcde48@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:48:22 EST
To: rides2far@Juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: sunscreen for horses
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Angie--
What you are describing is photosensitivity, which is far more serious than
sunburn. It is common with some clovers and can happen with other plants,
too. The sunscreen will help with plain old sunburns, but you are right that
in cases of photosensitivity, one must find the cause and eliminate it from
the diet. In many cases, veterinary intervention is needed to get the severe
lesions healed up without further damage to the horse.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cc70cb32.34bce121@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:00:31 EST
To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Hi, Teddy--
The problem with lack of expertise with ride managers should be handled by the
sanctioning directors. If they have new people/new rides, some pre-ride
overseeing is definitely in order. If El Nino dumps in San Diego on Super
Bowl day, are we going to say gee, Denver or Green Bay, we're really sorry you
got bogged down on that drive, we'll give you an extra down and an extra
minute to see if you can get some points on the board. I think not.
The limits are there, and if I am not capable of meeting the standards, I
haven't completed the ride. If bad things happen to good people, sympathy is
in order, but not points or miles.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a8768fb6.34bce72b@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:26:16 EST
To: step@fsr.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Steph and others:
Many people have suggested that there is a trade-off between hold times and
trail time. After vetting nearly 250 rides, I find this NOT TO BE THE CASE AT
ALL! As one would realize if one gives the matter some thought, horses that
have sufficient rest time at appropriate spots on the course can proceed more
rapidly down the trail than horses that have been ridden too far without
sufficient holds. I have found that by throwing in an extra hold on the last
loop of 100-milers, the participants often return to base camp at a much
quicker pace than they did in previous years when that last checkpoint was a
stop-and-go. Holds are necessary for horses to maintain performance--both in
regards to rest and refueling. The horse without the hold time goes slower
and slower. With well-planned hold times, you should be able to get healthy
horses to the finish line about as quickly as you would get fatigued, hungry
ones there without the holds. Just my perspective from a lot of years of
experience watching lots of different horses, managers, trails, etc. I still
stick by the elapsed time rule.
Interestingly enough, my Dad rode until he was 68. He had a horse with "iffy"
metabolics that could only go about so fast or he would have problems. Dad
had to get off every few miles and "find a tree" himself. He frequently took
longer at checks because of his own health. He always finished "in time" and
I think the most angry I have ever seen him was after a multi-day at which
Trilby was allowed completion after the 12 hours were up. He said it
defeated his entire purpose for being there--if they were not going to enforce
a time limit that was a little tough to meet, then what was the point of
paying an entry fee? As he put it, he can go out and ride fifty miles any old
time, with no clock running, and do it for free, so why pay his money to come
to a ride? His completion should be proof that he met a standard that he is
not held to if he is just "out riding". I agree.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <37228039.34bce97a@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:36:07 EST
To: katswig@deltanet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: For vets, males, and stallion owners
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Hi, Kat--
As both a rider of stallions and a veterinarian, I would have to say that the
hardening of the testicles that you noticed with your stallion at Death Valley
was NOT normal. Although I can visualize the possibility of this happening
from irritation from the ride, I have never seen such a thing happen. I would
think it would only be possible with some sort of variation in his gait, which
I would think either you or the ride vets or both would have noticed. Also,
such a problem from irritation would tend to be painful, and in my opinion,
would further a gait abnormality as he would tend to try to move his hind legs
in such a way as to avoid the irritation.
I think it is entirely more likely that your horse suffered from some sort of
low-grade infection or some such that mildly disturbed the lymphatics in the
testicles. This is not uncommon, and if your horse is fairly fit, he may have
just had a slightly "down" day, maybe not even noticeable in the lesser pace
of a multi-day. If this is the case, you may see a lowered fertility
approximately 45-60 days after the incident (might not even be noticeable if
you are not breeding heavily at that time, but is worth keeping in mind). If
the hardness resolved promptly, you probably don't have much to worry about.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6032ff7e.34bcea12@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:38:39 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Fwd: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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My last forward worked, so I'll try it again--might learn this darned computer
biz yet...
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Return-path: <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
To: step@fsr.com
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:02:24 EST
Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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Hi, Steph--
I am not yet sufficiently adept at this to figure out how to get my already-
sent mail sent again somewhere else, but I would not mind sharing my post with
the list. Feel free to do so.
I disagree that the bottom end is chopped out of the bell curve on the tough
rides--a walk is a walk is a walk, and terrain does not make the slow horses
appreciably slower in my experience. I will relate one incident in which I
was the rider--and this did not have anything to do with time limits, as we
had 4 or 5 hours to spare--at Santiam one year, Junior and I went over Cash
Mountain in the dark in 2 hrs and 10 minutes--that stretch is 12 miles, so we
averaged better than 5 mph in the dark at the end of a moderatly tough
100-miler AT A WALK! Sorry, I stick by my guns, even on the "hard" rides. I
have won rides with those sorts of winning times (Fossil Bowl--I think my
winning time was 8 hrs 40 min riding time, and Myrtle Creek Challenge--winning
time 7:30 or so) and have noticed that the "slow" riders are bunched up right
behind me. You can post this with my other one if you want, but I will send
it without a forward to Ridecamp, so you can add it after and it won't confuse
people by getting out of sequence.
Heidi
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <942b50d6.34bceb84@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:44:50 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-14 11:00:31 EST, you write:
<<
The problem with lack of expertise with ride managers should be handled by
the sanctioning directors. If they have new people/new rides, some pre-ride
overseeing is definitely in order. If El Nino dumps in San Diego on Super
Bowl day, are we going to say gee, Denver or Green Bay, we're really sorry you
got bogged down on that drive, we'll give you an extra down and an extra
minute to see if you can get some points on the board. I think not.
The limits are there, and if I am not capable of meeting the standards, I
haven't completed the ride. If bad things happen to good people, sympathy is
in order, but not points or miles.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon) >>
I am just thinking of a ride I attended several years ago when the monsoons
hit midway through the ride. The ride is a tough one anyway with
tretcherously steep hills that when wet, your horses' rear end goes out from
under him. In this downpour, you could not tell the trail from the rest of
the ground. I mean RAGING streams down the hills. The ONLY way to move
forward was dsimounted.
Another time, on a ride I managed more than ten years ago, the temperature
climbed to 102 degrees...very hot and very humid. Everybody went slow
(happened to be the SAME course as above-tough). Two juniors had their
sponors pulled at the last VC about 8 miles from camp. The kids horses were
okay. We let the kids finish, riding (actually, they WALKED on foot) their
horses. The vet and several others met them at every road crossing with
water, etc. They finished..overtime. I asked AERC to give them their
completion...AERC did grant it...
Unforseeable circumstances..such as the above and trail vandalism are NOT from
anybody's poor planning.
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9eac2356.34bceb89@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:44:55 EST
To: reshan@deyr.ultranet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-14 11:29:49 EST, reshan@deyr.ultranet.com writes:
<< In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the
> rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only. Then
> if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,
> etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
> rule.
> >>
>
>10-4!!! I have always thought this would be fair to all...Teddy
>
This is the only fair way I can see. Giving "Rider X" a completion because
they're nice people and they had a problem on the trail opens a 55 gallon
drum of worms. Any extensions to ride time must be applied across the board
to be fair.
--CMNewell
>>
In my thinking, 2 VC's on a TOUGH 50 are NOT enough...we usually have three,
with the middle one often being 45 to 60 minutes.
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <243a10d6.34bceb85@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:44:51 EST
To: betsy@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion times
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In a message dated 98-01-14 11:13:32 EST, you write:
<< Teddy,
I am following the controversy regarding completion times on ridecmp. If
you stop to help a rider in trouble, will you be given your time back? or be
given a completion if you are late as a result of giving assistance. Thanks.
Betsy O'Shea and Afterglow
Paola, Kansas
>>
Generally not...yet, you are often rewarded in other ways....It was YOUR
choice to stop and help when you could have gone on...the "ultimate?"
sacrifice...no completion?
Teddy
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <42dca07c.34bcee81@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:57:34 EST
To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Teddy makes the point that makes the rule change unnecessary--if there is
REALLY a good reason why an overtime rider should be granted completion,
petition the Board on a case-by-case basis. Odds are they will listen, and if
there is truly merit, an exception may be granted. This is FAR more palatable
than a rule change.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:37:30 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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Dear Ridecampers:
A number of folks have asked for copies of my discussion paper on the
AERC Drugs & Medications Policy. Since we are out dealing with a major
ice storm and time is limited, I'll post it one time here. I'm very
sorry to take the disk space. Ramey
Discussion Paper: AERC Rule 13, Is it Working As Planned?
by Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
AERC Drug Policy Work Group
I. Introduction
I have been asked to comment on the existing AERC Drug Policy. To be
clear at the on-set, I agree with the NO Drugs philosophy embodied in
the existing rule. However, it is impossible to administer this policy
in an even-handed manner. I will explain my statement later in this
paper. First, I will summarize the existing policy. Next, I will
propose a few amendment concepts which are intended to make our drug
rules more fair and manageable. Finally, I will describe a common law
doctrine that may improve fairness and reduce the expense of drug rule
prosecutions.
II. Current AERC Drug Policy.
AERC Rule 13 requires endurance equines to compete entirely on their
natural ability. The rule specifically prohibits from competition
"equines who contain evidence of the administration of abnormal
substances or of normal substances in abnormal amounts (exogenously
administered compounds even if normally found indigenously)." If one
reads this quoted portion of Rule 13 carefully, and setting aside for a
moment alternative therapies, it becomes obvious there are two basic
ways to violate Rule 13.
A. Pharmaceutical Cases
The first type of drug prosecution involves the phrase "administration
of abnormal substances." This is the pharmaceutical (licensed drug)
aspect of the rule. President Frazier has written that a: "drug is a
substance that has a physiological effect that is not a nutrient. All
nutrients are included in one of six classes: (1.) water; (2.) protein;
(3.) vitamins; (4.) carbohydrate; (5.) fat; (6.) minerals." There is
little disagreement that the licensed drugs at issue are not normally
found in the equine body.
B. Nutraceutical Cases
The second violation concept in Rule 13 deals with so-called
nutraceuticals. AERC Rule 13 states in part: "AERC prohibits from
competition equines who contain evidence of . . . normal substances in
abnormal amounts (exogenously administered compounds even if normally
found indigenously)."
There is no published AERC definition of the terms "abnormal amounts" or
"exogenously administered compounds." There is, however, a partial list
of substances/nutraceuticals banned during competition published by
AERC. This list does not indicate relevant clearance times.
Again, riders/members have complete responsibility to determine (1)
whether their exogenously administered compounds (the stuff we are
feeding) are not normally occurring in their horse, and (2) will the
substance result in a positive drug test. Advertising claims from
manufacturers are apparently not recognized as a defense.
Unfortunately, it is not possible to test for certain nutricuticals
prohibited by Rule 13. One cannot wonder but why we have a rule that is
impossible to enforce? If this aspect of Rule 13 is to stand, then
other types of evidence beyond lab tests might be considered.
III. AERC Rule 13 Problems.
The existing AERC Drug Policy 13 give rise to three areas of concern:
(1) Clearance Times; (2) Enforcement; and (3) Cost of Administration.
A. Clearance Times
Although the prohibition of pharmaceuticals is clear, it still gives
rise to the issue of clearance times. How are members to know when to
cease administration of prescribed medications.
As a Special Prosecutor for the crime of Arson, and as a retired Chief
Deputy State Fire Marshal, I have some knowledge of forensic laboratory
testing capabilities. When the original AERC drug policy was
formulated, gas chromatography capability was in the "parts-per-million"
range. Nowadays, laboratory analyses are often stated in
"parts-per-billion." In other words testing apparatus has improved
significantly.
In days gone by, trace amount violations of Rule 13 did not present a
policy question as they probably went unnoticed. Today, as the AERC
Drug Testing Program becomes fully operational, trace amount violations
of Rule 13 will be reported often.
Is any reported level, including trace amounts, to be a violation? A
middle ground between the zero tolerance principle and the evolution of
testing laboratories should be recognized by AERC. One way to do this
is to modify existing enforcement procedures.
B. Enforcement
At common law there was a principle called De Minimis Non Curat Lex:
"The law does not care for, or take notice of very small or trifling
matters." This policy is now embodied in American law at state and
federal levels.
Applied to Rule 13, the No Drugs Allowed principle could stand as
written but a De Minimis exception would be added to the prosecution
process. Under this concept, residual trace amount violations, as
determined by the AERC veterinary committee, would not be considered a
violation.
Unfortunately, nothing in rule-making is quite so simple. Disputes as
to validity of the veterinary committee decision will arise. To address
this subject we now turn to the subject of burden of proof.
C. Burden of Proof
Any positive drug test is currently accepted by the AERC Board of
Directors as conclusive evidence of a Rule 13 violation. This procedure
is an example of the Common Law Doctrine of Res Ipsa Loquitur (The Act
Speaks For Itself). To understand Rule 13 prosecutions a brief
explanation of this legal doctrine is needed.
All Americans, either by birth or naturalization, are guaranteed certain
fundamental rights. For purposes of this discussion, these rights are
extended to citizens of other countries by either their membership in
AERC or by participation in an AERC sanctioned event. One such
fundamental right is that we are considered innocent until proven
guilty. The state has the burden of proving the defendant committed the
crime. In civil matters the person making the claim has the burden of
proving their case.
There is an exception to this general rule. The Doctrine of Res Ipsa
Loquitur is a common law concept that shifts the burden of proof in
certain civil matters from the plaintiff to the defendant.
Under Res Ipsa, the plaintiff must only prove the "occurrence itself,"
and not the acts leading up to the event. For example, if you cut your
mouth on a chunk of glass that was in a can of peas opened just before
eating, the presence of the glass alone may be enough to shift the
burden of proof to the cannery (i.e., but for some negligence, cans of
peas do not contain glass).
AERC currently uses the Res Ipsa doctrine to prosecute Rule 13 cases. To
do so AERC must prove three things: (1) A positive drug test does not
normally occur unless there was prohibited conduct; (2) Such conduct is
within the scope of duty the member owes to AERC; and, (3) Neither AERC
nor some third party contributed to or caused the positive test. If
AERC can meet this three part test, then under the res ipsa concept the
responsibility of going forward with the evidence shifts to the
owner/rider.
As mentioned above, this is how AERC drug cases are prosecuted
currently. If a de minimis exception were to be included in the rules,
the current system would not be impacted to a great extent. For
example, let's assume a lab test is positive for bute. The AERC
veterinary drug sub-committee reviews the report and concludes the level
was de minimis. As a warning to others, the responsible party is
notified of the positive test and the subsequent de minimis ruling, then
a report of the action could be published in Endurance News as are other
official AERC acts.
On the other hand, let's assume the vet committee says the level was
therapeutic and the defendant disagrees. Once AERC proves the three
elements described above, the burden of proving a de minimis exception
would shift to the defendant.
Defendants would, at their own expense, have to prove by a preponderance
of the evidence (more likely than not) that the level present was
neither therapeutic nor masking. The specific language would have to be
worked-out among the drug committee and then approved by the Board of
Directors.
III. A Final Comment
A last comment needs to be made about AERC Rule 13. The language of the
rule could use a good clean-up. Currently the rule is far too vague and
hard to explain. Accordingly our members do not receive fair warning of
prohibited conduct.
Perhaps the general no drugs policy could be stated in the AERC Rules
and a separate Drugs and Medication pamphlet adopted by reference as we
now do with the ride manager and veterinary handbooks.
Thank you.
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <71f9cc9a.34bcfaea@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:50:31 EST
To: rstai@FLASH.NET
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: nylon bridles
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Try Redfield Halters in California -- sorry I don't have phone # handy -
someone else will or Henry Griffin in Montana.
Debby
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:05:15 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Becky Hackworth <bechack@flash.net>
Subject: Pendelton Challenge
It seems that getting this ride together may be touger than riding it, but
here goes...
I have spoken to Terry Woolley Howe ( our sanctioning director ) and I have
e-mailed Susan Gibson (CA) about assuming this ride when she and Chip get
transferred.
I am hoping to help Susan with this years ride to get a feel for it. I have
already started a list of people to help, mostly military people to go help
find/mark trail that will not have a problem with getting on base during the
year.
I only have 15 months to pull this off, but maybe I can pull it off...
Wish me luck
Becky Hackworth
ps...this was my first ever endurance ride, so is very special to me. I can
only hope to emulate Susan on the great rides she has put on there.
Does everyone else out there WANT to see this ride continue?
Already looking for volunteers!
Becky
619-445-8604
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:10:03 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:57:34 EST, CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
wrote:
>Teddy makes the point that makes the rule change unnecessary--if there is
>REALLY a good reason why an overtime rider should be granted completion,
>petition the Board on a case-by-case basis. Odds are they will listen, and if
>there is truly merit, an exception may be granted. This is FAR more palatable
>than a rule change.
In the case of an individual rider, yes. I would not want to see ride
managers be able to grant special exceptions to any individuals.
However, severe weather affects everyone equally, and vandalism
usually affects many if not all riders. Or, the guy with the shotgun
blocking the trail and not letting anyone by (I was present at this
one -- although that particular case didn't need a time extension).
These are the kinds of conditions for which IMO the ride manager needs
the authority to extend the maximum completion time, for *all* riders,
at the time of the ride. It isn't practical to say "go ahead and
finish even though you know the (whatever disaster occured) won't let
you make the time, and we'll ask the AERC board to give you
completions." The ride manager on the ground is the one who needs to
asses the situation and decide if it calls for extending the time of
*his* ride.
No, not to make it easy -- but to prevent denying people the fair
chance to complete that they have a right to expect when they pay
their entry fee.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: Russ Humphrey <russ.humphrey@AiCSeattle.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Roomies
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:13:04 -0800
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Hey folks - I'm off to the convention and looking for anyone who might
want to share lodging expenses... My wife would prefer that I not share
a room w/ females (sigh). Anyone have extra space?
I'll be arriving Thurs eve @ 10:30, leaving fairly early Sunday AM.
russ humphrey
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'CMKSAGEHIL'" <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>,
"RUN4BEAR@aol.com"
<RUN4BEAR@aol.com>,
"ridecamp@endurance.net"
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:23:09 -0800
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<Heidi says:
Teddy makes the point that makes the rule change unnecessary--if there is
REALLY a good reason why an overtime rider should be granted completion,
petition the Board on a case-by-case basis. Odds are they will listen, and if
there is truly merit, an exception may be granted. This is FAR more palatable
than a rule change.
Actually, all of this discussion may be moot...
(though quite interesting!)
I've read the existing rules a few more times, and as
Ramey pointed out, it seems that there already is an
escape clause. I'd be curious to know what the actual
intent was (regarding overtime) when these rules were
written. If one takes them literally, then rule 6.1. allows
managers to grant completion even if rule 6.g. (Finishing
within the prescribed maximum time.) is broken.
I don't suppose this has ever been challenged. However it would
be nice to have a straw vote from the board on whether rule 6.1.
would in fact allow a ride manager to grant completion to riders
who finished overtime, if 'the violation was not intentional, and did
not result in making the course easier or shorter'.
If this is true, than it is 'legal' for ride managers to grant _completion
only_ (mileage only, no points or placing) to riders who do not finish within
the prescribed time. ... at their (honorable :) descretion. But it is
NOT 'legal' for ride managers to grant actual placement.
Sounds to me like a case-by-case presentation and request to AERC
is not even necessary, unless there is a protest.
Steph
AERC Rule 6 states:
Completion requires meeting all of the following criteria:
a. All riders and mounts must be present and accounted for at the start
of the ride.
b. Properly entered in the ride.
c. Obeying all the rules.
d. Following the prescribed course, and doing multiple loops in the
correct order.
e. Passing all control points.
f. Passing vet check requirements
g. Finishing within the prescribed maximum tine.
h. Not being disqualified.
i. Meeting criteria at post-finish-line check.
j. Meeting any other criteria prescribed by ride management
k. Not having been paced or prompted by an unentered, withdrawn, or
otherwise unauthorized equine, vehicle, or a person other than another
entrant. This does not preclude the ordinary support services of
attendants or pit crews. A crew may accompany their rider down a public
road in a support vehicle (unless there is a ride management prohibition
against it) provided they do not push or haze the equine.
Rule 6.1 - A competitor must pass all veterinarian criteria for completion; a
competitor who fails any of the other completion criteria should be pulled
from Top Ten placing, but may be allowed a completion, if in the opinion
of ride management, the violation was not intentional and did not result
in making the course easier or shorter.
-----Original Message-----
From: CMKSAGEHIL [SMTP:CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 8:58 AM
To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com; ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Teddy makes the point that makes the rule change unnecessary--if there is
REALLY a good reason why an overtime rider should be granted completion,
petition the Board on a case-by-case basis. Odds are they will listen, and if
there is truly merit, an exception may be granted. This is FAR more palatable
than a rule change.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: "CMKSAGEHIL" <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>, <step@fsr.com>,
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:19:10 -0700
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To all concerned:
Heidi wrote:
<<<< Interestingly enough, my Dad rode until he was 68. He had a horse
with "iffy"
> metabolics that could only go about so fast or he would have problems.
Dad
> had to get off every few miles and "find a tree" himself. He frequently
took
> longer at checks because of his own health. He always finished "in time"
and
> I think the most angry I have ever seen him was after a multi-day at
which
> Trilby was allowed completion after the 12 hours were up. He said it
> defeated his entire purpose for being there--if they were not going to
enforce
> a time limit that was a little tough to meet, then what was the point of
> paying an entry fee? As he put it, he can go out and ride fifty miles
any old
> time, with no clock running, and do it for free, so why pay his money to
come
> to a ride? His completion should be proof that he met a standard that he
is
> not held to if he is just "out riding". I agree.>>>>>
Well, Arlene is 66, I am 70, we are both still riding and competitive (top
ten riders) and we must agree with Don's philosophy (Heidi's father). If
the younger set needs special treatment and a VERY level field then let
them go to Competitive Trail Riding. If the majority of riders can do the
ride in the prescribed time, and the overwhelming majority do, then let's
go on to more interesting topics.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
> From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
> To: step@fsr.com; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 9:26 AM
>
> Steph and others:
>
> Many people have suggested that there is a trade-off between hold times
and
> trail time. After vetting nearly 250 rides, I find this NOT TO BE THE
CASE AT
> ALL! As one would realize if one gives the matter some thought, horses
that
> have sufficient rest time at appropriate spots on the course can proceed
more
> rapidly down the trail than horses that have been ridden too far without
> sufficient holds. I have found that by throwing in an extra hold on the
last
> loop of 100-milers, the participants often return to base camp at a much
> quicker pace than they did in previous years when that last checkpoint
was a
> stop-and-go. Holds are necessary for horses to maintain
performance--both in
> regards to rest and refueling. The horse without the hold time goes
slower
> and slower. With well-planned hold times, you should be able to get
healthy
> horses to the finish line about as quickly as you would get fatigued,
hungry
> ones there without the holds. Just my perspective from a lot of years of
> experience watching lots of different horses, managers, trails, etc. I
still
> stick by the elapsed time rule.
>
> Interestingly enough, my Dad rode until he was 68. He had a horse with
"iffy"
> metabolics that could only go about so fast or he would have problems.
Dad
> had to get off every few miles and "find a tree" himself. He frequently
took
> longer at checks because of his own health. He always finished "in time"
and
> I think the most angry I have ever seen him was after a multi-day at
which
> Trilby was allowed completion after the 12 hours were up. He said it
> defeated his entire purpose for being there--if they were not going to
enforce
> a time limit that was a little tough to meet, then what was the point of
> paying an entry fee? As he put it, he can go out and ride fifty miles
any old
> time, with no clock running, and do it for free, so why pay his money to
come
> to a ride? His completion should be proof that he met a standard that he
is
> not held to if he is just "out riding". I agree.
>
> Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:26:30 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Betsy O'Shea" <betsy@micoks.net>
Subject: Completion time
So, the next time I just leave that person lying there with a broken arm or
head if I want to get a completion? My choice is not to stay, ethics demands
that I do. Isn't this a bit rigid! Is that how AERC is?
Betsy
At 11:44 AM 1/14/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-14 11:13:32 EST, you write:
>
><< Teddy,
> I am following the controversy regarding completion times on ridecmp. If
> you stop to help a rider in trouble, will you be given your time back? or be
> given a completion if you are late as a result of giving assistance. Thanks.
> Betsy O'Shea and Afterglow
> Paola, Kansas
> >>
>Generally not...yet, you are often rewarded in other ways....It was YOUR
>choice to stop and help when you could have gone on...the "ultimate?"
>sacrifice...no completion?
>
>Teddy
>
>
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>, "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:20:33 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Long <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:57:34 EST, CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Teddy makes the point that makes the rule change unnecessary--if there is
>>REALLY a good reason why an overtime rider should be granted completion,
>>petition the Board on a case-by-case basis. Odds are they will listen,
and if
>>there is truly merit, an exception may be granted. This is FAR more
palatable
>>than a rule change.
>
>In the case of an individual rider, yes. I would not want to see ride
>managers be able to grant special exceptions to any individuals.
>However, severe weather affects everyone equally, and vandalism
>usually affects many if not all riders. Or, the guy with the shotgun
>blocking the trail and not letting anyone by (I was present at this
>one -- although that particular case didn't need a time extension).
>
>These are the kinds of conditions for which IMO the ride manager needs
>the authority to extend the maximum completion time, for *all* riders,
>at the time of the ride. It isn't practical to say "go ahead and
>finish even though you know the (whatever disaster occured) won't let
>you make the time, and we'll ask the AERC board to give you
>completions." The ride manager on the ground is the one who needs to
>asses the situation and decide if it calls for extending the time of
>*his* ride.
>
>No, not to make it easy -- but to prevent denying people the fair
>chance to complete that they have a right to expect when they pay
>their entry fee.
>
>--
>
>Joe Long
>jlong@mti.net
>http://www.mti.net Business
>http://www.rnbw.com Personal
>
Joe,
I agree wholeheartedly with you conclusions. Good job! Hope we are able to
make the change. As Roger R. said, rules can be changed if there is enough
feedback from the riders.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
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From: Marinera <Marinera@aol.com>
Message-ID: <119cdb12.34bd0d17@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:08:05 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Keep it simple.
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Dear Ride Campers,
When the AERC was formed, one of the main thrusts was to "keep it simple".
"Simple" is 50 miles in 12 hours, 100 miles in 24 hours and that has been the
standard since the inception of the sport and AERC records have been kept with
this as a basis. If you don't make it in time either your horse failed
because he wasn't up to it or was ill prepared; you weren't ready or became
ill; or the trail was too tough. But life isn't fair. It is full of ups and
down, moments of triumph and moments of defeat just as endurance riding is.
You have the right to pick and choose the horse you ride, your own level of
fitness and the rides you attend. You will get some bad breaks and you will
get some good breaks. I have finished rides I never should have and I have
failed to complete rides that I felt I deserved. It all sort of evens up over
the long run. But you cannot let your life revolve around the outcome of one
ride.
Everyone wants to be known as a good sport. Good sports take their lumps and
they realize there can not be a rule or an exception to the rule to cover
every possible contingency. So, for the sake of the sport of endurance
riding, keep it simple. Otherwise we will founder on a set of complex rules
that no rider or ride manager can interpret or comprehend.
Julie Suhr
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a6892d89.34bd1093@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:22:57 EST
To: Marinera@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Keep it simple.
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Thank you Julie. I have been following all this discussion about ride times
and making exceptions and extensions. You said it very well and I agree with
you completely.
Debby Lyon
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:43:08 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c613cc.432300154@mail.mti.net>
References: <199801141820.KAA22494@fsr.com>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:19:10 -0700, "Robert J. Morris"
<bobmorris@rmci.net> wrote:
>Well, Arlene is 66, I am 70, we are both still riding and competitive (top
>ten riders) and we must agree with Don's philosophy (Heidi's father). If
>the younger set needs special treatment and a VERY level field then let
>them go to Competitive Trail Riding. If the majority of riders can do the
>ride in the prescribed time, and the overwhelming majority do, then let's
>go on to more interesting topics.
Bob, you're still fighting a phantom. We're not talking about giving
anyone special treatment. We're talking about ride managers having
the ability to extend their maximum completion time for *abnormal*
circumstances.
If you want a "In my day we were tough ...," well, in 12,000 miles of
endurance rides I was never overtime, not even once. The only time I
was close was an extremely hot, humid 100 miler where I finished with
20 minutes to spare ... and I was the only finisher, everyone else had
dropped out due to the extreme weather conditions (there was a
livestock advisory, farmers were losing livestock to the heat).
The question isn't one of how tough we are, it's of recognizing that
unexpected conditions do occur and ride managers should have the
flexibility to deal with them.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback want5679 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003715 06457213254 0013132 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.mti.net (mail.mti.net [208.136.137.7]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28137 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:48:47 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:46:42 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c71573.432723593@mail.mti.net>
References: <01BD20D6.69CBDC60@seahorse.fsr.com>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:23:09 -0800, Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com> wrote:
>I've read the existing rules a few more times, and as
>Ramey pointed out, it seems that there already is an
>escape clause. I'd be curious to know what the actual
>intent was (regarding overtime) when these rules were
>written. If one takes them literally, then rule 6.1. allows
>managers to grant completion even if rule 6.g. (Finishing
> within the prescribed maximum time.) is broken.
>I don't suppose this has ever been challenged. However it would
>be nice to have a straw vote from the board on whether rule 6.1.
>would in fact allow a ride manager to grant completion to riders
>who finished overtime, if 'the violation was not intentional, and did
>not result in making the course easier or shorter'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I believe this rationale would not be accepted. AIR from the Board
discussions such use of 6.1 is not acceptable. One reason: allowing
more time makes the course easier.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Keep it simple.
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:50:29 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:08:05 EST, Marinera <Marinera@aol.com> wrote:
>Everyone wants to be known as a good sport. Good sports take their lumps and
>they realize there can not be a rule or an exception to the rule to cover
>every possible contingency. So, for the sake of the sport of endurance
>riding, keep it simple. Otherwise we will founder on a set of complex rules
>that no rider or ride manager can interpret or comprehend.
> Julie Suhr
Of course, we can make it simpler still by removing the rule from the
AERC rulebook and allowing ride managers to set their own times
according to their trail conditions, the way we used to do it.
There's been far more controversy over the rule and its implementation
than there ever was over ride times before it was adopted.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:03:35 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
References: <v01540b01b0e16dbb105b@[198.252.56.115]>
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Truman Prevatt wrote:
>
> An unfortunate fact of like is that in the Southeast we sometimes have
> trouble with trail vandlas. They can be quite creative. Not only will
> they take ribbons, but they will use the ribbons to remark the trail for
> you leading riders way off course. This can and will happen during a ride,
> where it will only impact riders in the middle or back of the pack. While
> ride management can do all they can to mitigate this problem, it cannot be
> totally eliminated. I really don't belive a tough luck - to hell with you
> is the correct response in this situtation. While placement is probably not
> called for, I believe milage - assuming the necessary milage was cover -
> is.
>
> Truman
It seems to me that if I were just getting into endurance, spent alot of
time and money preparing, went to a ride and did not complete due to
trail vandalism and got what I perceived to be a
tough-luck-that's-your-problem attitude from ride management (whether or
not it originated from AERC), I would probably get discouraged and
resentful very quickly. Maybe I'd try again, alot of people wouldn't
and shazam, we lost another potential endurance rider. Just something
to consider.
Susan Garlinghouse
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To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
Cc: rides2far@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: sunscreen for horses
Message-ID: <19980115.035947.11558.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <b2953a31.34bcde48@aol.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:01:31 EST
On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:48:22 EST CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com> writes:
>Angie--
>
>What you are describing is photosensitivity, which is far more serious
>than
>sunburn. It is common with some clovers and can happen with other
>plants,
>too. The sunscreen will help with plain old sunburns, but you are
>right that
>in cases of photosensitivity, one must find the cause and eliminate it
>from
>the diet. In many cases, veterinary intervention is needed to get the
>severe
>lesions healed up without further damage to the horse.
>
>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
Yes, my friend, a vet had me smearing Preparation H all over the lesions.
Phew!
Angie
>
6:01:31 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:51:46 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Boy Steph, you really stirred the pot here, but as Bob pointed-out we
have probably hit just about all the discussion points.
One last thought from my perspective relates to the words "completion"
and "placing." Although these terms are used interchangably throughout
AERC rules, they have significantly different meanings. This creates
confusion at best.
We might consider proposing that our rules get a good house cleaning to
clearly differentiate between terms, delete sexist language, and clarify
ambiguities. As was the case with our PNER Bylaws, it can be done
without making substantive policy changes.
See you all in KY,
Ramey
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To: Joe Long <jlong@mti.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Joe Long wrote:
> I believe this rationale would not be accepted. AIR from the Board
> discussions such use of 6.1 is not acceptable. One reason: allowing
> more time makes the course easier.
Joe there is a counterpoint to this interpretation. In the since of
time, you are probably right. But if that time goes beyond daylight,
for example, then the hazards associated with darkness makes the trail
harder. It balances-out in the end.
The ride manager is in the best position to make the call.
See you in KY,
Ramey
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From: JPascu <JPascu@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8a537f0.34bd3905@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:15:31 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Equine Myofascial Mobilization
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The Rolf Institute is sponsoring another Equine Myofascial Mobilization class.
This class will be March 18-23, in Boulder CO. Class is limited to 10
participants. Contact the Institute at 800-530-8875 for more information.
jim pascucci
Certified Advanced Rolfer
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e62d946c.34bd35e0@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:02:01 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Cardiac condition
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Thought I would drop the skinny now that we have had our town meetin ghere. 4
VETS - ALL MY YARD! It was like a party! If it hadn't been for the graity of
the situation, well, I should have ordered pizza. The opinion on our stallion
who has been suffering from a swollen and useless leg for over 3 weeks, even
under treatment - and cropped up with a huge murmur at the same time - has
been diagnosed now. A cardiac US has indicated a bacterialogical embulatory
condition, resulting in less than complete valve response in the aortic valve.
Surprising to the staff since htey expected a shortchange in the ventral
instead. In addition, there is a slight thickening of the related wall of the
chamber, so the valve is somewhat causing a backwash effect. As the infection
is reduced over the next month of serious atnibiotics, the cardiac function
adn related output should be relieved, adn the fear of a spontaneous
infarction or embulatory movement will be redued as well. He stands an
excellent chance of going right back to work in about 6-8 weeks, slowly to be
sure, but this is a wonderful piece of news, and in addition, this is a
disease process and not structural which of course is always a concer with a
breeding animal. So...thank you to those terrific vets and God! we are
relieved. A full published report is going to be sent to us this week. IF you
want to know more about this, let me know. There is a high incidence of
cardiac anomilies with endurance horses, but in most casess either it is never
diagnosed or when diagnosed is of a transient or innocent nature. This one is
not, but at least will be healing soon. Off to spend more money on drugs. Oh
and just ask about the aspiring and Bordeaux! He might get to wash his med
down with a little red wine! HEE HEE!
sandy
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:32:43 -0600
To: jdmilam@fwb.gulf.net, "Wilcocks, Carol" <cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Young horses etc....
Cc: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
In-Reply-To: <34BCCD68.32FA@fwb.gulf.net>
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I second that. Please a good trainer. We humans just aren't strong enough
to manhandle 1000 pound horses. We need to use finesse and smarts and get
the animal to see things our way. Force doesn't accomplish much. Animals
that have been trained with force, we negatively call "cowboy broke." here
inKansas. (sorry to you cowboys who are sensitive with your horses)
chris paus & star
At 06:36 AM 1/14/98 -0800, Jerry & Susan Milam wrote:
>Carol,
>
>Please send your young horse to a GOOD trainer...not a TOUGH trainer.
>
>A lot of what you describe in your youngster is just pure youth. Riding
>and more riding will help the most. Ride in an environment where you are
>in control and use the mildest bit your horse will respond to you with.
>
>Just ride, ride, ride and keep teaching him what YOU want him to learn:)
>
>He sounds just like my 4yo:)
>
>
>Happy Tails
>Susan and the Fly Bye
>
>
>
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: "Marinera" <Marinera@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Keep it simple.
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 15:43:58 -0700
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THANK YOU JULIE SHUR YOU HAVE DESCRIBED IT AS IT IS THANK YOU
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
> From: Marinera <Marinera@aol.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Keep it simple.
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 12:08 PM
>
> Dear Ride Campers,
> When the AERC was formed, one of the main thrusts was to "keep it
simple".
> "Simple" is 50 miles in 12 hours, 100 miles in 24 hours and that has been
the
> standard since the inception of the sport and AERC records have been kept
with
> this as a basis. If you don't make it in time either your horse failed
> because he wasn't up to it or was ill prepared; you weren't ready or
became
> ill; or the trail was too tough. But life isn't fair. It is full of ups
and
> down, moments of triumph and moments of defeat just as endurance riding
is.
> You have the right to pick and choose the horse you ride, your own level
of
> fitness and the rides you attend. You will get some bad breaks and you
will
> get some good breaks. I have finished rides I never should have and I
have
> failed to complete rides that I felt I deserved. It all sort of evens up
over
> the long run. But you cannot let your life revolve around the outcome of
one
> ride.
> Everyone wants to be known as a good sport. Good sports take their lumps
and
> they realize there can not be a rule or an exception to the rule to
cover
> every possible contingency. So, for the sake of the sport of endurance
> riding, keep it simple. Otherwise we will founder on a set of complex
rules
> that no rider or ride manager can interpret or comprehend.
> Julie Suhr
>
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:45:05 -0600
To: "Betsy O'Shea" <betsy@micoks.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Completion time
In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19980114172630.0070b094@micoks.net>
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Thank goodness for good hearted people. When I was on a CTR (non AERC) my
horse went ballistic about two miles out of camp and the final vet check.
One kind rider stayed behind to help me bring my horse in safely and she
stayed with me when we got to camp teaching me how to bring his temperature
and P& R down to safe levels. I was not expecting to get completions for
that ride adn thanked her for giving up her completinoto help me.
We were pleasantly surprised when the ride management did give us
completions and awards. Other horses didn't even finish at all because of
the extreme heat and humidity that day.
chris paus &s tar
At 11:26 AM 1/14/98 -0600, Betsy O'Shea wrote:
>So, the next time I just leave that person lying there with a broken arm or
>head if I want to get a completion? My choice is not to stay, ethics demands
>that I do. Isn't this a bit rigid! Is that how AERC is?
>Betsy
>
>At 11:44 AM 1/14/98 EST, you wrote:
>>In a message dated 98-01-14 11:13:32 EST, you write:
>>
>><< Teddy,
>> I am following the controversy regarding completion times on ridecmp. If
>> you stop to help a rider in trouble, will you be given your time back?
or be
>> given a completion if you are late as a result of giving assistance.
Thanks.
>> Betsy O'Shea and Afterglow
>> Paola, Kansas
>> >>
>>Generally not...yet, you are often rewarded in other ways....It was YOUR
>>choice to stop and help when you could have gone on...the "ultimate?"
>>sacrifice...no completion?
>>
>>Teddy
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 14:45:40 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Hello everyone!
Haven't quite caught up here, but I already have opinions
too. First, if you look back in the archives, you'll notice
that *I personally* had to be set straight about the ride
time rules. That vetchecks are included in the total 12
hour cut offs for 50's. Somewhere back there I did post
a summary. And, once I understood the rules and they
made sense to me, that was fine. I can live with the game
as long as the rules are there and equal for everyone.
Also, someone pointed out that in fact the holds are part
of the total ride time since the horse is resting. If you
think about it, it makes a lot of sense.
Things that bother me:
Seeing ride times in Endurance News that are 11:59... what?
NO VET CHECK? HA! Newbies at rides that post a max ride
time of 10:19 because of an hour and 40 minutes of vet
checks are going to feel cheated. I'm not a newbie and I
feel cheated.
People who don't allow for extenuating circumstances. I mean,
like, if I've paid $1500 in entry fees and horse rental and
travel expenses and buckle hope and then I need to help pick
a rider and horse up off the trail or someone with ride management
*tells* me to take the wrong trail! or there's a huge line
at a vet check because sh*t happens and I lose two hours and
still finish only 15 minutes late and it's no skin off anyone's
nose then I'd really like to see my name in Endurance News and
wear that buckle. Especially if the horse is in the same shape
as when I picked him up.
My Opinions:
I don't mind rules as long as they apply to everyone equally.
I don't mind being told I don't get my buckle or completion
at Tevis because no one over time did.
If I can hobble along on a 50 on an old broken down TB ex-racer
in 11 hours total time even after getting off the trail TWICE
then geez, what is anyone with an Arab complaining about anyways?
If I decide to ride a broken down TB ex-racer and I can't make
50 miles in 12 hours and I don't go out and pay $2500 for an
Arab that has already done 50's in 7 hours total time that'll
save me $5000 a year in horse care expenses then what do *I*
have to complain about?
If I know to look for ribbons and I miss one that's right
there (3 actually) and I have a ridemap and the sun is shining
and I'm over 6 hours for 25 miles, or 12 hours for 50 miles,
or 24 hours for 100 miles, then what do I have to complain about?
I like tough rides. If we only make Robinson flat the first
year than maybe that's worth $1500. Cheeper than some universities
and a lot more fun.
Steph, I like what you are thinking of. We need to look at the
history of the sport and remember where the rules came from
before we change anything. If the current rules as they stand
*can* take care of your ideas, then IMHO there is not a need
to suggest changes.
Dear AERC reps, ride managers, friends and neighbors: Don't
fudge the rules. Period. Decide what they are going to be
and stick to them. Thanks.
delete soapbox;
commit;
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
"Where did all the buckles go? Long time passing..."
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jessica Tuteur <jessicat@napanet.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
What about if there is a treatment at a vet check requiring the attention of
one vet exclusively and all the riders have to wait to be vetted through?
Should the riders who are inadvertantly held up due to lack of veternary
attention allowed to finish overtime for completion only?
Granted this is probably a ride manager error in not having sufficient vets
or a vet on call in my opinion.
Jessica
*****************************************************************
Jessica Tuteur, Ride Manager Wine Country 50 6/6/98
J-M Ranch & HorseBums
1393 Green Valley Rd.
Napa, CA 94558
(707) 258-1937 tel & fax
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:52:40 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d34f81.447585043@mail.mti.net>
References: <m0xsTcT-005D5oC@world.evansville.net>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:16:37 -0600 (CST), "Jerry Fruth"
<hikryrdg@evansville.net> wrote:
>After watching the completion time rule boil on ride comp can or should we
>ask the question: In the past couple of years has there been an instance
>where the current rules did not handle the problem? If so where, what
>happened and how was it resolved. Maybe we are working ourselves into a
>froth over an issue that isn't an issue. Much todo aver nothing? Jerry
>Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT
Jerry, this issue comes up just about every year about this time. IMO
it will keep coming up, and keep generating heat and friction, until
the AERC Board resolves it by putting some reality into the rule.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: total ride time
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:57:59 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d45069.447817056@mail.mti.net>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 08:50:47 EST, MBowers472 <MBowers472@aol.com>
wrote:
>I have not been able to download and read all the has been said about total
>ride time, for instance, I can;t read Joe Long's letter. The board has looked
>at this from every angle -many times since I have been on the board. We have
>arrived at the conclusion each time that the current rule is the better
>choice. That doen't make it better, but we have spent much time on the issue,
>and the 24 of us came to that conclusion.
Uh, correction ... a majority of the Board voted to keep the rule as
it is, but it was never unanimous (at least during the many votes
while I was on the Board).
The very fact that this issue keeps coming back year after year should
tell the Directors that they have *not* got it right, and that it will
continue to keep coming back until they do.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Rules
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:09:00 -0800
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I've been following this thread, with everybody else, agreeing with some
and disagreeing with some. Finally I want to scream... Why are you
people DOING these rides? Is it for the stupid points? Is it for the
free hoofpick you get as a completion award? Don't you just LOVE doing
it? If you're not out there in the miserable weather in the dead of
night because you love your horse and the way it makes you feel when you
two have achieved something together... something's wrong.
Would you begrudge an injured rider because stopping would mean you
didn't get the lousy 50 points???? The hoofpick???
I agree with Julie. Ride for the sportsmanship, the points will take
care of themselves.
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:15:37 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: picket lines*
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I have never used a picket line on overnight rides, but my horse stands
nicely at the trailer. I was thinking a picket line could give him a little
more room to move around.
Can someone tell me what is the best kind of rope to use. Are there picket
lines available already made, bucklet ends attached, etc. Are there tricks
or tips to know about using one?
thanks.
chris paus & star
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:20:10 -0800
To: Ridecamp@Endurance.net
From: MaryAnne Bobrow <aerc@foothill.net>
Subject: Convention Update
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AERC's convention schedule can now be found at its web site (www.aerc.org).
On Thursday, January 22, 1998, please note that Technical Committee and
Competitions Committee are both meeting at 3:00 PM, Sanctioning Committee
at 4:00 PM and Rules Committee at 5:00 PM.
MaryAnne
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To: paus@micoks.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: picket lines*
Message-ID: <19980115.084144.11814.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980114191537.006e6804@mail.micoks.net>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:43:07 EST
On Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:15:37 -0600 Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net> writes:
>I have never used a picket line on overnight rides, but my horse
>stands
>nicely at the trailer. I was thinking a picket line could give him a
>little
>more room to move around.
>
>Can someone tell me what is the best kind of rope to use. Are there
>picket
>lines available already made, bucklet ends attached, etc. Are there
>tricks
>or tips to know about using one?
>
>thanks.
>
>chris paus & star
>
>
Can only tell you what works for me. I like a round approx. 1/2" nylon
rope. It's smooth and the ring slides easily. Some horses are so broke
to tie, that it takes awhile for them to give any kind of tug on their
lead rope. A friend of mine uses a much thinner line, and we had two
horses on it with no problems.
My rope is 30' (I think), simply because that's the length rope that
reaches from the front bumper of my truck, over a load of 54 bales of
hay, and ties to the rear bumper.
I'm 5' tall. I stand on a bucket and tie the rope with a quick release
knot as high as I can reach, and that works fine. I drop the slack end
of the rope back through the loop, just incase of prying lips. I use my
rear shipping boots to run the rope through to pad the tree.
Don't forget your knot eliminators to keep teeth off the tree.
I recommend a lead rope with a bull snap. I've had horses toss their
head just right and be released from a standard snap.
I think I got all my hardware from Teddy at Running Bear. Wasn't that
you at Biltmore Teddy?
Angie McGhee
P.S. I've yet to see a horse act like this needed any getting used to.
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:00:22 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: MaryAnne Bobrow <aerc@foothill.net>
Subject: AERC Ride Calendar
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Hi all.
AERC has received two calls in as many days regarding AERC-sanctioned rides
that have "fallen through the cracks." It seems some of these rides, while
in our AERC database are not making it through the export process to our
desktop publisher.
I've asked our programmer to come on line tonight to see what he can see
and hopefully to fix the problem. In the meantime, please look at the Ride
Calendar carefully -- especially all you Ride Managers out there -- and let
us know if yours is missing!
AERC's staff will be flying to Lexington on January 20 and will not return
to the office until January 28th so keep those dates in mind as you send
e-mails.
MaryAnne
PST)
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:05:51 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: lyoness@castlenet.com (Joane Pappas White)
Subject: Price of Horses
I have just returned from some time spent in Canada and had the opportunity
to read the Ridecamp issues that backed up on my email. I was particularly
interested in those on "price" as I was purchased three horses in the last
several months. While in Canada, I purchased a wonderul mare from Christy
Janzen. CC is a very experienced, push-button endurance horse which was
what I wanted after buying Baby Tzar last summer and realizing that at age 4
and barely greenbroke, we had about 4 more years to go before he can really
be a serious endurance horse.
As I searched for horses, something affected the price more than you might
realize--many owners were very concerned about the future home. The price
actually went down when the future of the horse was secure. Christy reduced
to price to get CC in a situation that would allow her to compete and use
her skills well. I consider CC an incredible bargain. I also believe she
could have brought a much higher price.
Baby Tzar was part of a show breeding program and I probably paid more than
was expected for a greenbroke 4 year old who was going into endurance, but
he is going to be very good. His P&R's are exceptional and he seems to love
this sport. His purchase price will be minor compared to the hours of time
and energy that will go into making him as experienced as CC. His breeder
calls all the time to see how he is doing and his price was "negotiated"
downward a bit because the breeder wanted him involved in a performance
sport. (By the way, his breeder called me last night and is having a sale
and has some really good prospects--email me if you want more information).
When you are talking to an owner or a breeder, tell them your plans and how
you will provide for the horse. The price many surprise you.
After raising Quarter Horses and now warmbloods, even our best endurance
horses are really cheap by comparison.
Joane
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From: "katie ruckel" <ruck@internetwis.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule- feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:00:32 -0600
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I realize I'm new (started in 1990) so I should be quiet because I don't
know all the history behind this. However, I feel that the ONLY REASON a
ride manager should allow more time is if a rider stops to help someone in
trouble. One of the great things about our sport is the willingness to
support one another even in the heat of competition. If we penalize a rider
for helping someone we will turn this into a much less "user friendly" and
thus a much more cutthroat sport. Unfair things -weather and other acts of
God and man - happen. But the idea that we would have a rule that might
prevent someone from getting aid or penalize the rider giving aid is
ludicrous!
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From: "katie ruckel" <ruck@internetwis.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:02:49 -0600
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I realize I'm fairly new (started in 1990) so I should be quiet since I
don't know all the "history" behind this rule. However, I feel that the
ONLY TIME a ride manager should allow extended time would be for that
person who stops to help someone in trouble. One of the great things about
this sport is the support we get from one another even in the heat of
competition. If one is going to be penalized for not helping a fellow
rider, we will be putting our sport in jepordy of becoming a less "user
friendly" sport and turning it into a much more cutthroat activity. IMO,
weather and other acts of God are part of the game. Those things happen
unfairly, but to risk someone's getting aid because the person who could
help would be overtime is ludicrous!
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Message-ID: <34BD6D5A.813@foothill.net>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:58:50 -0800
From: Nat & Richard <trailride@foothill.net>
Organization: Natalie's Barn & Breakfast
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Subject: Tevis Cup Ride Website Update
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Just a quick note to let y'all know that the Trivia pages have been
updated (finally) to reflect the '97 ride statistics. Sorry for the
delay. Let me know what you think, or if you notice any (gasp!)
errors...
http://www.foothill.net/tevis/TRIVIA.HTM
/richard (tevis webguy)
--
Natalie's Barn & Breakfast -- a B&B for horses ...and their riders
Visit us at http://www.foothill.net/natalies (530) 637-4644
Also, the OFFICIAL TEVIS SITE, http://www.foothill.net/tevis
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From: Keeyun <Keeyun@aol.com>
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:30:40 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: help with ridecamp
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Hi i had to reinstall my aol. which i was having trouble which is why i could
not get on ride camp. I lost everything in aol and think i have to re
subscribe to ridecamp.
thanks Kelly
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From: JERRY BARFIELD <barfield@primenet.com>
To: "'CMKSAGEHIL'" <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>, "'RIDECAMP'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:39:20 -0700
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Hello Heidi,
I hope people don't think that we are starting some kind of mutual =
admiration society, but I agree that any decently conditioned horse can =
make the current cut. I might not take a hard line on LD as that should =
be a training ground where people learn what it is all about, but if you =
are going to do an ENDURANCE RIDE then do it. If you and your horse are =
not ready to do a 50-do another LD-same when moving up to the 100. =
Increasing time limits would also put an added burden on ride managers =
and they have enough problems as it is-we surely don't need to run any =
of them out of the game.
Jerry Barfield
Southwind Arabians
----------
From: CMKSAGEHIL[SMTP:CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com]
Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 2:12 PM
To: step@fsr.com
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Hi, Steph--
I personally have VERY STRONG feelings about the completion time rule. =
I
think the current blind eye that is turned toward it is DEPLORABLE and =
that
the fact that AERC does not stick to its rules and DQ the riders who =
don't
make it in makes us a laughingstock at times.
As to extenuating circumstances, I feel sorry when bad things happen to =
good
people, but that is the breaks. A rule such as you propose sounds nice, =
but
it is a foot in the door for a situation that is already, in my opinion, =
out
of hand. 12 hours to do a 50 is sufficient to walk and jog the whole =
thing,
given a horse with a decent walk (the most neglected gait of our =
endurance
horses, in my opinion), and likewise on 100's. AERC already has a =
clause
where ride managers can postpone the ride for a day if there are acts of =
God,
intolerable weather, etc.--perhaps this should be used more.
I hope the time limit rule stays in place and that AERC somewhere gets =
the
guts to enforce it--otherwise, where is the challenge and what have we
completed? We become just another long trail ride if there are no =
standards.
(Kinda like the dumbing down in the schools--poor Johnny is a nice kid, =
and
showed up for school every day, so sorry he was only able to earn 65%, =
but we
should pass him because he tried so hard....) Nothing says ride =
managers
can't give completion awards and cudos to such folks, but please, no =
AERC
completion credit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Heidi
Heidi
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ee24d903.34bd8047@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:19:33 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: completion time rule -my last comm
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In a message dated 98-01-14 20:38:51 EST, bobmorris@rmci.net writes:
<< If
the younger set needs special treatment and a VERY level field then let
them go to Competitive Trail Riding. If the majority of riders can do the >>
hey bob.. ctr-- read natrc is anything but level.. since the placings are
someones opinion.. thats why many ctr riders go to endurance.. ctr can be a
bit cut throat.. as i have posted before..
this discussion has been great.. may not get a change but maybe we will see
the current time rule adhered to by more ride mgmt and get the bod to
offically say the ride mgr can allow completions under special situations.
but until then i will stick to the 12/24 rule
i take endurance much more seriously then i do ctr..
when we ran our ride we held fast.. we had riders ot and they were dqed.. they
did not come back the next year.. we had one rider that was right at 12 hrs..
that one completed all the others were from 2 min and more late.. were ot
and out..
that was the rule we stuck to it..
when i ride i assume i have to be in on time.. i was never ot. close but we
just pushed on to make it .. if the horse was not in shape.. we quit before
the finish..and got a ride to camp.
i dont agree we need to open the times to allow the very slow and unfit
horses to finish..
the current rule while not the best. does the job . and many dont like it JL
TR..
the bottom line its the way it is.. i dont see it changing.
if a ride falls apart due to all the foregone problems outside the control of
mgmt.. they may be able to give completions.. without posting 10 riders at a
11:59 finish time..
just show no time but completion only.. they get the miles only. it does not
carry the same weight as one who finshes on time and gets a 'placing'
where is the justice.. if only one rider or 20 riders make it in on time and
the others dont..I would not consider these as performing the same task and
it lowers the significance of the award..
Carol does not agree.. she wants exceptions..
After reading all these posts from the old guard and the new ones..
I vote for the hard line.. even though my prev posts offers an out.. on a case
by case basis.. if the rule 6.1 permits that ---then we dont need a change.
There has to be a fixed target to shoot for..
We want rides with correct mileage and and a standard time to complete. It is
what endurnace is about. I never felt it was a wimpy sport.
IT has been working.. sometimes the dog bites us.. we just have to get over
it..
I will go with Julie.. Hedi / Deby and even Bob thanks..
roger r
wounder how long this will go on?? remember how long general discussions took
when all we had was mail- phone calls and the Enews..
this will die in week when most of us are at the convention..
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From: BOXWOODY <BOXWOODY@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7255d705.34bd84e6@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:39:15 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #37
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to Jerry Fruth. wanted to know what you meant about weird trot? also who won
bc at the fl ride?
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From: JERRY BARFIELD <barfield@primenet.com>
To: "'RIDECAMP'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>,
"'twhowe@inetworld.net'"
<twhowe@inetworld.net>
Subject: AERC Completion Time Rule Feedback
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:15:11 -0700
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=09
Hi Terry, I agree with you on this issue and Heidi. The rule should =
stay as is. Any change as Steph is suggesting would only open more =
doors for a lack of clear guidlines and standards in the sport. As =
Heidi said, bad things happen to good people (and sometimes even good =
things happen to bad people) and we all have hard luck some days just as =
in any sport, but then that's the challenge of it all.( Talk about hard =
luck, anyone play golf? Try asking for a "mulligan" in a tournament =
because someone made noise during your backswing.I'm sure there are many =
other sports we could compare this concept too.)
I certainly would not like to see the rule change to make the 12 hour =
limit only the ride time and not including the hold. If that were the =
case some riders could be out 14 1/2 hours more or less, depending on =
how long the hold is for the 50. In the Southwest we have rides all year =
and hence the winter months have little daylight hence if you take the =
full 12 hours you start and finish is the dark as it is. This could be =
a nightmare for ride mangement logistically with vets, volunteers etc, =
plus concern for many riders riding in the dark on many difficult trails =
such as many of the MT trails that exist in Arizona where we ride. =
Managing a ride is a tremendous responsiblity and to make it even harder =
on rider management would certainly discouage people from taking it on.
Lenthening the completion time would probably encourage riders to do 50s =
on horses who are less fit. Horses who are not fit to complete a 50 in =
12 hours should stay with LD rides until they are capable of moving up.
There are a lot of "rider friendly" rides which I think is great as =
long as this means that the riders are helped and supported by =
management, volunteers and great vets to assist them compete safely and =
succeed within the established rules of the sport. =20
Bernita Barfield
Southwind Arabians
Breeding Endurance Horses By Design
Member: Al-Marah Breeders Alliance, LLC
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:36:57 -0600
From: Darolyn Butler <darolyn@swbell.net>
Reply-To: darolyn@swbell.net
Organization: Cypresswood Stables
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To: ride camp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: [Fwd: Leer Jet Crash/Endurance Horses]
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Heh steph, will try this again. Sorry. Just don't post often enough
to know the route. djb
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:04:31 -0600
From: Darolyn Butler <darolyn@swbell.net>
Reply-To: darolyn@swbell.net
Organization: Cypresswood Stables
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To: ridecamp-d@endurance.net
Subject: Leer Jet Crash/Endurance Horses
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Hi Everyone,
Read a lot of ridecamp, but don't post too often. Thought I might share
a sad but interesting experience with you. Tuesday morning, Jan 13,
while returning from taking CeCi to school, I heard an excited report of
a Leer Jet going down in the vicinity of George Bush Intl. Airport North
of Houston. My training trails and the ride I used to put on The
Houston Hustle trails are all around this airport. At the moment I was
hearing the report, unknown to me, I was driving less than a mile from
the crash site which was in the middle of a very inaccessible dense
forest, which even under normal circumstance is swampy, but with all the
rain this year was almost solid swamp.
I had an intuitive feeling the crash was nearby and stopped immediately
and told a fire truck who was cruising the area that I could provide a
search party of people on horses that knew the area and were used to
these woods. I gave him a card, but didn't really expect anything of
it.
As I neared my home, which ended up being about 4 miles from crash site,
they still had not found the plane. A friend and her daughter were
coming out to ride anyway, so I saddled Ceci's horse Conquistador, (who
not only has had an incredible first year in Endurance, but ran in a 7
furlong race at Sam Houston Race Park just last Friday), Babs
Razzmatazz, (a finisher in the '96 World Championship), and two other
good competitors, and hauled quickly over to the Airport Firestation
where I volunteered our services.
We were there for only about 5 minutes when they thought they had a line
on where the plane might be & we were sent about a mile east of the Fire
Station. It was creepy. I wasn't right on, but it was within a mile of
where I had the feeling it would be. We parked, unloaded the horses &
the police were waving us into an area to start the search. Jamie, a
young man who just started working for me & a fairly green rider was on
steady Mr. Ed. He's a big horse & just went thru the woods like a
grinding bulldozer. I sprinted ahead on Conquistador, passing the
volunteers on foot as they struggled in the mud and the vines. Vickie
Holzer, a good rider, but fairly new to Endurance, arrived and started a
bit later. She had several amusing stories about having to help the
Mounted Police on their big horses, (they gave up rather quickly, as
these concrete giants sank in the mud and freaked when they tangled in
the briars and thorny vines that make up these swampy woods). As we
were carrying our ever present long handled pruning shears, Vickie had
to literally help cut them out and nursemaid them back out of the
woods. She said they were absolutely amazed at Razz's ability to
negotiate this kind of terrain. The Houston Chronicle ended up talking
with her at some length about how in the world these horses could do
this.
In the meantime, me and it seemed like a host of police, firemen,
constables, and sheriffs were crisscrossing this terrible, mucky swamp
forest. I had my cell phone with me, & it was strange because friends
were already calling me, asking if it was me they had just seen on TV
as I galloped into the woods, and Vickie too, as she was a little closer
to where all the photographers were hanging.
I was feeling terribly frustrated as we were yelling back and forth
while searching and listening for what we hoped would be survivors
screams for help. At least one person had found the wreckage, but the
rest of us were still wondering and didn't know if the pilots were dead
or alive.. A coast guard helicopter finally showed up, but the ceiling
was still so low and the rain was misting so much it made it almost
impossible to for even them to see.
Suddenly I spotted a bit of wreckage, a shiny piece of metal slightly
over a foot square leaning against a tree. Was it just some paper
litter out here or...???? Metal alright, now I smelled the jet fuel.
My eyes started burning. I yelled back, here it is, I'm picking up the
debris and the smell. I was almost hoarse from all the previous yelling
and then trying to get everyone headed my way.
More and more debris, then I spotted flames and the two or three people
that had arrived their first. I talked to the guy that had found it
first. He had walked in from the South. He and I debated what the best
way to get the authorities into the site were. He nixed the South, said
it was terrible. I left to ride to the West, thinking it would run into
one of my established Endurance trails. After nearly a mile, I knew
there must be a shorter way in. I made my way back, scary a bit, cause
its really easy to get turned around and disoriented in these woods.
Got back to the site & Jamie was there with my nippers and hard hat,
(both sorely needed). I sent him to look for a northern direction route
as I was requested to ride back to establish a trail for most of the
authorities coming in from the East.
On the way, I met some firemen with a body sled. They were having a
heck of a time getting that sled thru the woods. I turned around to
take them back to crash site & ended up carrying their axes, and heavy
coats. Eventually, I pulled the sled after they decided macho was no
fun. I couldn't believe Conquistador. He'd never pulled anything in
his life and he was performing like a real trooper. We were almost to
crash site, when this group was informed that they wouldn't be allowed
to touch the bodies anyway, so Quister and I then pulled the sled on out
to a Northern route that had just been established. It backed up to a
little country community and fire trucks, news media, and flight safty
investagators began to line up.
They had just brought in a swamp buggy, (a loggy tractor), and were
quite relieved to see Quister and I come in, as we could now lead it
back to crash site as they were trying to get a wide enough path to get
other heavy equipment in. Didn't work. That poor mechanical beast got
so stuck about 300 yards out that he just barely got itself out.
Unfortunately, it left 4 foot deep ruts in what was an old soft logging
road. Conquistador and I ended up struggling thru those 3 more times as
we went in and out escorting people and taking more "police line" tape
back to crash site. The mounted police tried it once and promptly
turned back.
Not long after that, the main officer I was working with asked if we
didn't need to rest, wasn't my horse tired? I said.."Oh no, He's a
hundred mile horse" I don't think it computed. Then he said what about
you, "No Sir, I'm a hundred mile rider." Why is it that no one ever
really believes you when you say that?
Vickie's husband, Joe, had been calling, pretty worried, and also to get
updates. Their ten year old daughter was with us, but due to a bridle
problem, (and probably fortunate at that), she had never left the
trailer area. Knowing the other 3 were waiting, I helped remark a dryer
route, cleared a bit with my nippers and then heard the big equipment
coming in. No need for horses now, so we cleared out.
Both pilots, or course were DOA. They were basically cremated by the
time we all got there. The plane had gone down slightly over a mile
from the runway.
If you ever become involved in a search like this, here are the things
that are handy, one, the nippers or wire cutters, in case there are
old fence lines in the area, & second, take a roll of survey tape with
you. I didn't have that until I got the "police line" tape later. It
would have been really good, to even drop on the ground to show where
you had been in this kind of confusing terrain, and to later mark the
route for the other people coming in. I regretted not grabbing some as
I left my house. Next, don't forget your own jacket and supplies. The
weather turned colder and wetter in those 3 hours we were out. I just
accidently had a jacket tied on my saddle from a ride a few days
before. I did grab slickers for all of us though.
The endurance horses were the stars of the day, not great heros
necessarily though. Eventually they would have found there way in and
out, we just facilitated a little. It felt good helping and utilizing
our animals in a way in which they are so good. Maybe the Chronicle
will do a story on Endurance horses now. Never can tell.
--------------8C480D306884DA16CDD57699--
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Chris Paus" <paus@micoks.net>,
"Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines*
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:44:31 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd2170$4582dda0$b012c9cf@patfred>
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Chris,
I have marine rope available & can give you just about any length you would
like. It is high quality rope with a very high tensile strength. Also, it
does not rot. I would suggest using 3/8" line. It is light & easy to
handle & will do the job. The 3/8" diameter sells for $1.00 per ft.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 5:16 PM
Subject: picket lines*
>I have never used a picket line on overnight rides, but my horse stands
>nicely at the trailer. I was thinking a picket line could give him a little
>more room to move around.
>
>Can someone tell me what is the best kind of rope to use. Are there picket
>lines available already made, bucklet ends attached, etc. Are there tricks
>or tips to know about using one?
>
>thanks.
>
>chris paus & star
>
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:11:35 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Endurance List <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Photos from Warner Springs
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I just got back my photos from the base camp (Saturday morning) at the
Warner Springs ride. I took pictures of things that I found visually
interesting, and I will have them with me at Fire Mountain for anybody who
is interested in looking at them.
I tried to capture the feeling of the "mud hole" and the conditions...with
some successes and some failures.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: AERC Completion Time Rule
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 05:08:08 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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I'd like to share one reason I feel so strongly that the current AERC
rule on ride times is a bad rule.
The first ride I managed was the first Heart of Dixie ride, a 50 and
100 mile ride held in Alabama July 4th, 1980. That weekend we had the
worst heat wave in 20 years; there were livestock advisories out
because farmers were losing stock in their fields. A horse tied
quietly in the shade would be wet with sweat.
AERC President Dave Claggett, was at the ride. I asked him if I could
extend the riding times. He said "no problem" for the 50, but as I
had advertised and sanctioned the 100 as a one-day 100 he did not see
how I could extend the time on that length.
So, I announced at the riders meeting that the time limit for the 50
mile ride was 15 hours instead of 12, but that the 100 would stay at
24.
We had six starters in the 100. One horse pulled for lameness; four
riders pulled because they couldn't maintain a 24 hour pace in that
heat. One horse made it with only 20 minutes to spare -- and of
course much of his ride was at night, when it was at least a little
cooler.
In the 50, the *First Place* time was 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 40
seconds including holds (I looked it up). Under our current rule,
*nobody* would have completed the 50. Even with the 15 hour limit we
only had about a 50% completion rate in the 50.
Does this mean those riders were wimps? That their horses weren't
good enough for endurance? Bullsh*t!!!!!! Everyone who completed
that ride rode one of the toughest rides of their lives. And, we
didn't have a single horse in trouble or needing metabolic treatment!
Well, some people say "Too bad, bad things happen to good people."
Sorry, that's no excuse for arbitrary rules making them happen. We
trust our ride managers on much weightier matters ... the trail, trail
measurement, the competence of the vets they hire. I cannot believe
they cannot be trusted with *some* discretion to allow longer ride
times under abnormal conditions.
Until this discussion took place here, I had no thought of doing
anything about this issue this year. After reading the amount of
support on this list for fixing the rule, I am formally petitioning
the Board to address this issue, and come up with a proposal to take
to the Membership. Final action could take place at the mid-year
meeting for a change effective with the 1999 ride season.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:01:34 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
Subject: Re: rider exercises
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Kat - Your exercises are great! You should see me perching on one foot
while brushing my teeth!!! I have known that my left leg is weaker than my
right, now I can really feel it getting stronger thanks to your "zulu"
exercise. (I stopped trying to look stern and regal like the Zulu's I've
seen in photos standing with one leg propped against the opposite knee,
especially with toothpaste dribbling down my chin!)
Thanx! Laney
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:41:50 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: lyoness@castlenet.com (Joane Pappas White)
Subject: Simone's Quarter Horse
Simone,
Thumper the Quarter Horse has done very well at 25 to 35 miles. In fact he
won BC in Colorado in November. He is in excellent shape and was very upset
when I left him at camp on the first day and took Baby Tzar. There was a
wonderful conditioning article a while back that may be in archives. It
explained conditioning muscle groups. If you condition properly, your QH
can do very well.
Before I knew what I was buying or why, I bought a Bob Marshall Sports
Saddle--Barrel version. The only difference between the endurance and
barrel version is a 4" thin sharp horn that hits my ribs going up hill and
has left black and blue marks. I love the saddle and it gave me a real
sense of confidence in the beginning but the horn must be watched carefully).
Joane
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d43765cb.34bda0b5@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:37:55 EST
To: Keeyun@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: help with ridecamp
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Ops.. well this can happen.. I had to install aol 3 times.. upgrades that did
not work.. ole win95..
what i did was go to a back up copy with the .org file.. that contains all
your messages and the startup infor about you.. restore it on top of the new
one created during the re-install..
the file is in organize folder.. its is your id.org.. easy to do..
when i get a bust in aol.. and the best plan is to install the latest
version.. i now copy the current .org file to a temp folder.. then overlay
after install..
i also run my daily backp to tape with only the .org from the aol
directory..
.roger r
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <69fab241.34bda0c6@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:38:08 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sore Feet
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<< Hawthore Products (1-800-548-5658) has some great products for the sore or
tender-foot. Try the Freezez Hoof Freeze to toughen the hooves. If you
already have bruising try the Sole Pack. It is medicated and helps draw the
soreness. It comes in a dressing (use under pads) and in single packs that fit
perfectly in an Easy Boot. I usually pack with my Easy Boots on rides.
>>
I too use the above.. the hoof pack stuff wont stay under the pads very well
in my mud.. but when i go with the EZBoot.. its great..
I choose not to use formaldehyde after I found out how bad it can be..
I use standard foot sole care stuff that is used for thrush, and stong
iodine.. it does toughen the sole.. it actaully 'burns the foot' sort a
callus is formed..
the wide web shoes are not leagl in natrc.. so we use std shoes st criox
eventers with shocktamer rim pads or the mustad nail-shu plastic over
alumminum.
cant start a natrc ride with an ezboot.. and the eq sneakers are not allowed.
i use my horses for both ctr and endurnace..
our gang resides in bottom land.. soft and they have a good creek and mud..so
the soles are soft.
my new geld.. came up lame.. stone bruse and abcess under the shoe.. he is
barefoot now.. also seems to have a frog bruse or tear.. not thush ..i dont
think..it doesnt stink
we are working on it.. used an ezboot -- cleaned foot frog well then packed
with ichthomal you know thats spelled wrong.. and cotton left on for 2 days.
took it off cleaned the sole and frog soaked in epsom salts hot water for 20
min.
was able to cut away some of the frog.. now its open..
packed with a mix of calendula tinture and tea tree oil. covered well with
cotton.
Put the ezboot back on.
He is on ARNICA 200c 3 times a day for pain and inflamation
HYPERCUIM 30c for abcsees and hoof related problems. 3 times or so per day.
we are in day 3 of treatment.. still sore..
he has the softest feet of all.. needs more rides in the mountians and rocks.
we are loosing conditioning time..
roger r
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From: "Lucie A. Hess" <lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu>
X-Sender: lhess01@coinc0
To: CATUNDERWD <CATUNDERWD@aol.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Portable Stalls
In-Reply-To: <28f7bb8c.34b8c85f@aol.com>
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You may want to consider the Lead ropes that streatch, I have one called
the Leader, it has a safety snap on one end and a bull snap on another.
It is very strong and I have seen horses hit it hard and it stays
together. Personally I have some strong concerns about pvc corrals, I
like Monte Mitts' pens and the Horsen around metal pens. They are in my
opinion some of the safest and most horse proof around. JMHO
Lucie Hess
Columbia, Missouri
Chief Black Arrow -retired Appy
Moonhill Dandi -current mount- 7/8 Arab
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <443242f7.34bda7a2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:07:28 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Lost an e-mail address
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Ramey--I pushed the wrong button and lost your e-mail address--can you e-mail
me so I can get hold of you?
Thanks, Heidi
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 00:15:04 CST
From: Kathy Crothers <KC85124@UAFSYSB.UARK.EDU>
Subject: AERC Convention
To: ridecamp@ENDURANCE.NET
Does anyone have the address of the convention center in Lexington, Ky.?
For some reason my husband wants to know how to get us there. Ha!! We'll
be driving up from Arkansas. Also how far is it from the Kentucky Horse
Park? Hope to see a lot of you there!! Thanks, Kathy
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From: "Wilcocks, Carol" <cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Corrals, Yards etc. for rides.
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 98 14:31:00 PST
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Just a thought on the accomodation of horses at rides. I have always used a
portable electric yard setup, which my horses respect, but recently heard
about an incident in Queensland where some horses stampeded through these and
got killed or injured on roads etc. The PVC idea is a great one, being
visible and light to handle (I do not like metal yards due to their weight
and problems with transporting them) but worry that my horses would probably
work them out and lean on them or pick them up and walk off! An idea that I
thought might work, is to attach electric insulators to the inside of the top
or middle rail and put tape on those, attached to a portable battery unit,
hence solving the problem of abuse by horses! I do like the idea of having
somewhere to put my saddle while saddling - would the PVC be strong enough
for this?
Cheers, Carol and the gang.
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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:40:43 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: portable corral panels
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Does anybody have any suggestions on what to use to keep the metal panels
from making so much racket? The horses just have to barely bump into them
(usually when they push the hay around and are eating) and it makes the
most irritating sound. After a ride they love to rub their heads/faces on
the panels as well. Bungee cords help hold them in place so they don't get
disconnected, but it would be really nice to find a way to keep them quiet!!
We've even gone as far as putting a hotwire on top..which kept them from
touching the top of the panels, but didn't keep them from pushing their hay
into the bottom. Using hay bags only makes them bang them into the
trailer, which is also annoying. Have tried putting the hay into a big
bucket. They end up pushing the bucket into the fence. Put the hay in the
middle. That works for awhile. It ends up getting pushed around, or else
they end up urinating on it and then it goes to waste.
Oh well, it's not as if I sleep anyway.
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Dream Weaver, 1230 miles
& Rocky, 350 miles
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8ca3a195.34bdffb2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:23:12 EST
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: total ride time
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Joe--
One slight correction--the reason the MAJORITY of the Board (and a VAST
majority as I remember--I was on the Board back then too) came up with the
12/24 hour rule was precisely BECAUSE there was so much controversy over ride
managers setting their own times, and THAT was the issue that was causing so
much contoversy. It didn't work then, people got sick of the abuses and
unfairness caused by it, and the issue has been FAR quieter with the 12/24
hour rule in place.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fa1eae2b.34be0917@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:03:16 EST
To: Keeyun@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: how to rate
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Kelly~
The time frame sounds like you are doing a CTR. Right? If so, you will have
mile markers set out every 5 miles, then every mile for the last 5 miles.
Check with ride management to make sure.
If the terrain allows, the following is an easy rule of thumb to go by. Trot
for six minutes then walk for three minutes. Keep repeating that and you and
your horse will finish within the time frame (not too fast and not too slow).
It also allows for an even distribution of work and rest.
Carry a cheat sheet too (with the times/mileage). Set your watch at 12:00
when you start and check it when you go by the mile markers. You should be
within the parameters below. If necessary, adjust your speed up or down.
This is an example of the "cheat sheet" that I use.
miles to go your watch
25 12:00
20 12:45 - 12:50
15 1:30 - 1:40
10 2:15 - 2:30
5 3:00 - 3:20
4 3:09 - 3:33
3 3:18 - 3:46
2 3:27 - 3:59
1 3:36 - 4:12
0 3:46 - 4:25
Do keep in mind that this is just a guide line. Trail conditions might
dictate that you should go slowly when your watch says to go fast. The trail
should take priorty over your watch. You can make the time up later.
Good luck & have fun!
~Nora
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:29:12 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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To: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
CC: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Overdrive
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I have a pre-powerstroke diesel, 5 speed, 4:10 rear end with over
100,000 miles, pulling a 9100# trailer and have had no problems pulling
in overdrive on flat terrain using cruise control at 60 - 70 mph. When
I start elevations and feel the load, then I shift out of OD.
Dee Fortner
NE Alabama (where we have lots of short steep climbs and switch backs)
Truman Prevatt wrote:
> When the powerstorke is acellerating at 65 mph in overdrive I don't see
> much sense in dropping it out of OD. I don't know about other people with
> this engine, but I can put the sucker in cruse at 65 to 70 in OD and it
> just purrs on down the road. At 65 I am running at about 2000 rmp (411
> rear end with the automatic).
>
> Truman
>
> Truman Prevatt
> Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
> Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
> The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
> Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
>
> Sarasota, FL
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c489f954.34be18e0@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:37 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, VMAXEPT@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-15 04:17:15 EST, CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com writes:
<< In the "old" days (been doing this for a quarter of a century, so I guess
that qualifies) ALL the holds were mandatory, all LONG holds were one hour,
and short holds ranged from 10 to 20 minutes. Often we had more total hold
time than we do now, so the theory that we used to have more time on the
trail
doesn't wash.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>>
We STILL have those kinds of holds out here in the East.....we have heat and
humidity and both riders and horses NEED the time to recoup...
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4432a7d4.34be18eb@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:49 EST
To: Marinera@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Keep it simple.
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:35:44 EST, Marinera@aol.com writes:
<< Dear Ride Campers,
When the AERC was formed, one of the main thrusts was to "keep it simple".
"Simple" is 50 miles in 12 hours, 100 miles in 24 hours and that has been the
standard since the inception of the sport and AERC records have been kept
with
this as a basis. If you don't make it in time either your horse failed
because he wasn't up to it or was ill prepared; you weren't ready or became
ill; or the trail was too tough. But life isn't fair. It is full of ups and
down, moments of triumph and moments of defeat just as endurance riding is.
You have the right to pick and choose the horse you ride, your own level of
fitness and the rides you attend. You will get some bad breaks and you will
get some good breaks. I have finished rides I never should have and I have
failed to complete rides that I felt I deserved. It all sort of evens up over
the long run. But you cannot let your life revolve around the outcome of one
ride.
Everyone wants to be known as a good sport. Good sports take their lumps and
they realize there can not be a rule or an exception to the rule to cover
every possible contingency. So, for the sake of the sport of endurance
riding, keep it simple. Otherwise we will founder on a set of complex rules
that no rider or ride manager can interpret or comprehend.
Julie Suhr
>>
Julie:
Still...there was the ride from hell when the monsoons came and NOBODY would
have gotten a completion.....how about the ride where the trail markers were
vandalized and NOBODY knew where to go?
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6a40f607.34be18ef@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:53 EST
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:37:08 EST, jlong@mti.net writes:
<<
The question isn't one of how tough we are, it's of recognizing that
unexpected conditions do occur and ride managers should have the
flexibility to deal with them.
--
Joe Long >>
I am in agreement 100%, Joe..that's all any of us want, a fair shake, not a
hand-out.
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a0a0b54.34be18e5@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:43 EST
To: betsy@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Completion time
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:15:34 EST, you write:
<<
So, the next time I just leave that person lying there with a broken arm or
head if I want to get a completion? My choice is not to stay, ethics demands
that I do. Isn't this a bit rigid! Is that how AERC is?
Bets >>
Right now, there are NO provisions for this under AERC rules. If completion
means that much to you, pass the hurt person by....I have helped and been
helped. I have been on time and overtime..many reasons. They are ALL good
memories of a wonderful day spent among the best people one can find
anywhere...
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9eae32d5.34be18e6@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:44 EST
To: @internetwis.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:25:13 EST, ruck@internetwis.com writes:
<< One of the great things about
this sport is the support we get from one another even in the heat of
competition. If one is going to be penalized for not helping a fellow
rider, we will be putting our sport in jepordy of becoming a less "user
friendly" sport and turning it into a much more cutthroat activity. >>
if you are in the "heat" of competition..stopping to help a fellow rider will
in 99.9% of the cases, NOT put you overtime...unless, that is, you consider
the "turtle" award a "heated" competition....
Teddy
idecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:13:10 -0800 (PST)
From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <9eae32d5.34be18e6@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:44 EST
To: @internetwis.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <415651d5.34be18db@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:32 EST
To: cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Corrals, Yards etc. for rides.
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In a message dated 98-01-15 01:34:13 EST, you write:
<< Just a thought on the accomodation of horses at rides. I have always used a
portable electric yard setup, which my horses respect, but recently heard
about an incident in Queensland where some horses stampeded through these and
got killed or injured on roads etc. >>
Valerie and Danielle Kanavy lost one of their good horses this way. They were
camped out west, used electric corral...something went through or spooked
their horses to go through the fence; hence all horses went running amuck.
When they were found, one had fallen from a ledge and broken a leg.
Some years ago at a ride here in the East, the endurance riders, having
finished, had their horses in corrals. The CTR riders arrived with fresh
horses. That night somebodies horse got lose and ran through corrals, over
and through tents and took a number of horses with him. We had 6-8 horses
running down the interstate at 2AM. Some were VERY seriously injured.
The point is: no matter how good YOUR horse is in an electric corral, the
OTHER lose horse (who cannot see it in the dark--or is panicked) can and will
go through it. I have seen electric tape actually CUT a horse where he ran
through it.
The state of Indiana DNR has OUTLAWED the use of the electric pens for these
reasons. Some ride managers out East ban them as well.
PVC corrals are at leats visible. For some horses they are a good solution.
For others a steel corral (such as for a stallion) are necessary. I carry
steel corrals on the side of my horse trailer (7 wide trailer). For 8 wide
trailers, they can be put in the extra stall, in the bed of your pickup, or on
the roof. Most are NOT all that heavy (Farnum's steel corral which we sell
weight 26 pounds per panel..not unmanagable). If you still like your
electric, PLEASE, use it during daylight hours and take it down at night.
I hate tying my horse to a trailer, so where possible, I use a picket line.
Safe if done properly. One rope strung HIGH (at least 6 feet) off the ground
with "stops" (like know eliminators) at each end so the horse cannot get too
close to something he may damage or get hurt by. Use a rope (I use neckropes
as the snap around neck rotates to the upward position when the horse has his
head down or rolls) long enough that your horse can just barely reach the
ground with his nose...much longer and you risk him getting tangled while
rolling or laying down. I put hay and water at one end or the other where my
horse can reach it, but not become wound around it.
Plan carefully and THINK about the possible problems with ANY fence system.
There are safe ways to camp with your horse so YOU can sleep!!!
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <705b0785.34be18ee@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:51 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, katswig@deltanet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: For vets, males, and stallion owners
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:35:45 EST, CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com writes:
<< As both a rider of stallions and a veterinarian, I would have to say that
the
hardening of the testicles that you noticed with your stallion at Death
Valley
was NOT normal. Although I can visualize the possibility of this happening
from irritation from the ride, I have never seen such a thing happen. I
would
think it would only be possible with some sort of variation in his gait,
which
I would think either you or the ride vets or both would have noticed. Also,
such a problem from irritation would tend to be painful, and in my opinion,
would further a gait abnormality as he would tend to try to move his hind
legs
in such a way as to avoid the irritation. >>
Has anyone ever tried a "jock strap" on an endurance horse? They use them in
harness racing.
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b08eeb54.34be18e1@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:39 EST
To: VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: automatic vs standard transmissions for hauling
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In a message dated 98-01-15 04:20:31 EST, you write:
<< VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
I'm looking for opinions (and probably will get a few) regarding pros and
cons of automatic transmissions vs standard when hauling a horse trailer.
We have a 3 horse/slant load/extra long gooseneck trailer (all aluminum).
We're "discussing" our next truck and have somewhat opposing opinions, so
tell us yours! >>
I would not drive anything BUT a manual transmission...at LEAST 5 speed.
Aluminum trailers are NOT lighter...I have a 26 foot 4H slant with LQ. It
weights 13,000 loaded...maxing out ANY picku-up on the market. I ruined a
Dodge Diesel (trans/rear end) pulling this. I got a 9 speed Freightliner
instead...I LOVE it!!!
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3501d49a.34be18e9@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:47 EST
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:34:23 EST, jlong@mti.net writes:
<<
I believe this rationale would not be accepted. AIR from the Board
discussions such use of 6.1 is not acceptable. One reason: allowing
more time makes the course easier.
>>
Well..easier from WHOSE standpoint? I, for one, think that 12 hours on a 50
is VERY tiresome and painful......don't talk this as serious, just reality.
Teddy
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From: "Cam/Shannon Wood" <wood.cameron@acd.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines*
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 98 09:57:14 PST
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Hi Chris,
I've been picketing for a few years and this is what I've learned about
it:
* Use a nylon rope that won't stretch. You want the rope to stay tied at
the level you put it, which is as high as you can reach ... a cotton rope
will sag as the horse moves around and could cause trouble. Tie at least
one end with a slip-knot for safety.
* Place a big, heavy metal ring on the line before you tie it to your posts
/trees/ camper, etc -- on a smooth nylon rope this will slide freely the
length of the line.
* I like to use a soft cotton lead from the halter to the line -- if the
horse does get tangled, the soft, fat cotton lead won't do a lot of damage.
Tie the lead to the line so that the snap (bull snaps are good) just
touches the ground . This will give your horse plenty of length to graze
or even lie down. Once he gets comfortable with the setup, you'll be
amazed at how much he'll lie down to sleep. My horse would never do this
tied to the trailer.
* You should introduce Star to this AT HOME .. if something happens he'll
have familiar surroundings to help keep him calm, and it DOES take a horse
some time to figure it out. The biggest problem my horses had at first was
getting the lead rope wrapped aroud their neck ... it's easy to have
happen but difficult to describe. All it takes is one turn in place when
the lead is draped over the neck. Neither of my horses panicked, but they
couln't get their head down to eat or drink. I had to show them a few
times how to get out of it and now they rarely do it. Feeding them on the
line the first time is a good idea.
* If you put hay on one end of the line, and water at the other, this
encourages movement on the line and I think helps keep the horse from
getting really stiff. I have seen people tie hay nets directly to the line
but I have always tied mine to one end or the other to keep my guy from
tangling with it.
*multiple horses on one line: This works pretty well as long as you put
something on the line to keep their lead lines from sliding together ... if
they can get too close they can get tangled easily. A lot of tack stores
and endurance catalogues offer a neat little widget that can be placed on
the line after it's tied, that will keep the metal ring from sliding down
the line. You will need two between each horse, placed far enough apart so
that the horses can go far enough to touch noses but not get tangled. This
"stopper" works well to keep the horses off the end trees if there's a
problem with tree-eating (always a considerate thing to do ... ride
managers, property owners and park officals don't like it when horses kill
or scar trees)
I made my picket line and have been happy with it for years..... I'm
sure there are manufactured, fancy ones out there in stores, but the local
hardware hasn't disappointed me yet.
Good luck!
Shannon W. and Yaled & Khomytt
Laingsburg, MI
----------
> I have never used a picket line on overnight rides, but my horse stands
> nicely at the trailer. I was thinking a picket line could give him a
little
> more room to move around.
>
> Can someone tell me what is the best kind of rope to use. Are there picket
> lines available already made, bucklet ends attached, etc. Are there tricks
> or tips to know about using one?
>
> thanks.
>
> chris paus & star
>
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:14:01 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Kimberly Huck <khuck@magicnet.net>
Subject: Re: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #41
In-Reply-To: <199801141342.FAA01684@fsr.com>
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Truman,
I found that rice bran had just the opposite effect of calming on one of
my horses. (The other horse thrives on it and we have no problems) I was
feeding one pound per day and it just seemed that my horse did not know
what to do with all of the extra energy he found from it. It definitely
made him more spooky and high strung. I know that it is supposed to be a
supplement in which to keep weight on (which it did) and not add hyperness,
but it did in my case. I also know of several other people who's horses
had the same reaction. I have also talked with several vets who have seen
the same phenomenom. Once I took him off of it, he returned to his old
self. Nothing else in his diet or training had changed. Kim.
>
>Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:15:24 -0500
>From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Rice Brand Tranquilizer
>Message-Id: <3.0.3.32.19980113211524.008b8100@netsrq.com>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>I am now riding my wife's horse, Jordy. He can be quite hyper at times. I
>have been told that rice brand has a calming effect on many horses and I
>should give it a try. Of course this was by the rep from Seminole feeds
>that mills their own rice brand supplement so, needless to say, the opinion
>is not without bias.
>
>Has anyone else notice such an effect?
>
>Truman
>
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <942da454.34be18e2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:40 EST
To: jessicat@napanet.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:12:26 EST, you write:
<<
What about if there is a treatment at a vet check requiring the attention of
one vet exclusively and all the riders have to wait to be vetted through?
Should the riders who are inadvertantly held up due to lack of veternary
attention allowed to finish overtime for completion only?
Granted this is probably a ride manager error in not having sufficient vets
or a vet on call in my opinion.
Jessica >>
Don't blame ride managers...it is the riders who SHOW UP without prior notice
that overload the staff!!!
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <32759d4.34be18e4@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:42 EST
To: @internetwis.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule- feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:15:01 EST, ruck@internetwis.com writes:
<< I realize I'm new (started in 1990) so I should be quiet because I don't
know all the history behind this. However, I feel that the ONLY REASON a
ride manager should allow more time is if a rider stops to help someone in
trouble. One of the great things about our sport is the willingness to
support one another even in the heat of competition. If we penalize a rider
for helping someone we will turn this into a much less "user friendly" and
thus a much more cutthroat sport. Unfair things -weather and other acts of
God and man - happen. But the idea that we would have a rule that might
prevent someone from getting aid or penalize the rider giving aid is
ludicrous! >>
You are right...you are either too new to this sport or haven't seen enough
rides witgh REAL problems....some totally unpreventable by ride management.
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <40991d4.34be18f3@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:57 EST
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time Rule
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:47:08 EST, jlong@mti.net writes:
<<
In the 50, the *First Place* time was 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 40
seconds including holds (I looked it up). Under our current rule,
*nobody* would have completed the 50. Even with the 15 hour limit we
only had about a 50% completion rate in the 50.
Does this mean those riders were wimps? That their horses weren't
good enough for endurance? Bullsh*t!!!!!! Everyone who completed
that ride rode one of the toughest rides of their lives. And, we
didn't have a single horse in trouble or needing metabolic treatment!
Well, some people say "Too bad, bad things happen to good people."
Sorry, that's no excuse for arbitrary rules making them happen. We
trust our ride managers on much weightier matters ... the trail, trail
measurement, the competence of the vets they hire. I cannot believe
they cannot be trusted with *some* discretion to allow longer ride
times under abnormal conditions.
Until this discussion took place here, I had no thought of doing
anything about this issue this year. After reading the amount of
support on this list for fixing the rule, I am formally petitioning
the Board to address this issue, and come up with a proposal to take
to the Membership. Final action could take place at the mid-year
meeting for a change effective with the 1999 ride season.
--
Joe Long >>
Thank you, Joe....I have seen this happen myself....Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <65fae388.34be18f6@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:58 EST
To: darolyn@swbell.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Leer Jet Crash/Endurance Horses]
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Great Story!!!! Hurrah for 100 mile horses...and you are right...no one seems
to believe or understand what you are saying when you say you and your horse
are 100 milers....
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <53322d54.34be18f2@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:55 EST
To: lyoness@castlenet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Price of Horses
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:42:50 EST, lyoness@castlenet.com writes:
<< After raising Quarter Horses and now warmbloods, even our best endurance
horses are really cheap by comparison.
Joane >>
Joanne:
The day has come when people outside our sport no longer think we ride horses
fresh from the killers....we are now BREEDING good horses. And, suitably,
they should command better prices for the sellers.
I, too, am one of those who would reduce the price on my animal if the home is
the right one. Even if at a loss.
Teddy
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Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:06:35 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:06:35 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Jerry Fruth <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
cc: patfred@snowcrest.net, step@fsr.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
In-Reply-To: <m0xsTcT-005D5oC@world.evansville.net>
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On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Jerry Fruth wrote:
> After watching the completion time rule boil on ride comp can or should we
> ask the question: In the past couple of years has there been an instance
> where the current rules did not handle the problem? If so where, what
> happened and how was it resolved. Maybe we are working ourselves into a
Yes, there have been many examples at rides I have atteended personally,
and the "problem" was "resolved" by falsifying the official results.
I, personally, am of the opinion that this is a problem that should not be
ignored (as I am of the opinion that rules, if they are to be rules,
should not be selectively ignored--rules, if they are rules should be
enforced strictly or stricken from the books, in fact, as Abraham Lincoln
once said, "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it
strictly.")
kat
Orange County, Calif.
; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:08:24 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:06:35 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Jerry Fruth <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:31:54 -0600
To: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
From: "Betsy O'Shea" <betsy@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Completion time
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Teddy
I interpreted your response to me as indicating that a person had a choice
in whether to stop and help another rider. I don't see it as a choice at
all, which was what my point was. So, I am assumming that not getting a
completion because you did a good deed falls in the same category as being
over time because of vandalism, slow vet checks and unforseen weather
conditions and other uncontrollable circumstances. Is that correct? - and
per rule, the BOD can be petitioned for an exception. Can the rider do
this, or only the ride management? Sorry for the newbie questions.
At 09:10 AM 1/15/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-15 05:15:34 EST, you write:
>
><<
> So, the next time I just leave that person lying there with a broken arm or
> head if I want to get a completion? My choice is not to stay, ethics demands
> that I do. Isn't this a bit rigid! Is that how AERC is?
> Bets >>
>
>Right now, there are NO provisions for this under AERC rules. If completion
>means that much to you, pass the hurt person by....I have helped and been
>helped. I have been on time and overtime..many reasons. They are ALL good
>memories of a wonderful day spent among the best people one can find
>anywhere...
>
>Teddy
>
>
Betsy O'Shea and Afterglow
Paola, Kansas
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Reply-To: <URRacing@elknet.net>
From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Sore Feet
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:08:00 -0600
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Roger,
I "m assuming you're
working under a veterinarians recomendations. However I would strongly
recomend not using an easy boot.Easy boots trap all moisture and heat in
the foot. They don't allow the foot to breathe. I would recomend wrapping
the foot with vet wrap or a gauze like material. We've had real good luck
with a product called epsom salt-plus. It draws out soreness from bruises
better than anything else we've used.It draws abcesses out too.
john
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Completion time
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:01:15 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c631cc.3487347@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:31:54 -0600, "Betsy O'Shea" <betsy@micoks.net>
wrote:
>I interpreted your response to me as indicating that a person had a choice
>in whether to stop and help another rider. I don't see it as a choice at
>all, which was what my point was. So, I am assumming that not getting a
>completion because you did a good deed falls in the same category as being
>over time because of vandalism, slow vet checks and unforseen weather
>conditions and other uncontrollable circumstances. Is that correct? - and
>per rule, the BOD can be petitioned for an exception. Can the rider do
>this, or only the ride management? Sorry for the newbie questions.
No rider is required under any AERC rules to stop and help another
rider, under any circumstances. Most (not all) endurance riders will,
though.
Under current rules there is *no* provision for a rider earning a
completion if finishing after the time limit, *no matter what the
circumstances.* Although any member can petition the Board for
anything they wish, I know of no case where the Board has approved a
completion for an overtime rider, and I doubt they would do so.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: total ride time
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:54:33 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c52f33.2822374@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:23:12 EST, CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
wrote:
>One slight correction--the reason the MAJORITY of the Board (and a VAST
>majority as I remember--I was on the Board back then too) came up with the
>12/24 hour rule was precisely BECAUSE there was so much controversy over ride
>managers setting their own times, and THAT was the issue that was causing so
>much contoversy. It didn't work then, people got sick of the abuses and
>unfairness caused by it, and the issue has been FAR quieter with the 12/24
>hour rule in place.
I recall it differently. I never heard of *any* controversy over ride
times until the year Les & Trilby rode7,000 miles each. That year,
some rides allowed 24 hours to do 50 miles to accomodate them.
Another ride that year set a 14 hour limit to do a 100.
The Board IMO over-reacted to this specific problem by putting *all*
rides into the time straightjacket, and it's caused problems and been
controversial ever since. A couple of times we came close to getting
some flexibility added to the rule, but fell short of a majority, so
the controversy continues. It is a bad rule, and the controversy will
never end until it is fixed.
I've "been there, done that" on this kind of issue. In 1980 the Board
reacted to some abuses of elevator rides by banning *all* elevator
rides. For years there were attempts to allow some form of elevator,
which went down in flames every time. Finally, the Board came up with
our current formula of allowing elevators for completion only, and the
issue was resolved.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and sometimes the only way to get a
bad rule fixed is to keep coming back until the Board fixes it.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
SE there was so much controversy over ride
>managers setting their own times, and THAT was the issue that was causing so
>much contoversy. It didn't work then, people got sick of the abuses and
>unfairness caused by it, and the issue has been FAR quieter with the 12/24
>hour rule in place.
I recall it differently. I never heard of *any* controversy over ride
times until the year Les & Trilby rode7,000 miles each. T5745 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002347 06457434740 0013131 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from consider.theneteffect.com (consider.theneteffect.com [206.202.56.3]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA13636 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:31:16 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:29:20 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
cc: darolyn@swbell.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Leer Jet Crash/Endurance Horses]
In-Reply-To: <65fae388.34be18f6@aol.com>
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> Great Story!!!! Hurrah for 100 mile horses...and you are right...no one seems
> to believe or understand what you are saying when you say you and your horse
> are 100 milers....
I was absolutely crushed when, shortly after my first LD, I was proudly
telling the tale to non-horsey friends, one of whom replied "It took you
over THREE HOURS to ride 25 miles? Don't horses go like 30 mph or
something?"
Don't I wish! At 30mph Lakota would be a 100 mile horse in no time. :))))
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: Jessica Tuteur <jessicat@napanet.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Not necessarily. i have been to rides here in CA where it is limited to 200
horses and they have 3 vets! Then you wonder why you have to wait 2 hours to
see a vet at the 25 mile hold?
Jessica
>>Don't blame ride managers...it is the riders who SHOW UP without prior notice
>>that overload the staff!!!
>>
>>Teddy
>>
>>
>
*****************************************************************
Jessica Tuteur, Ride Manager Wine Country 50 6/6/98
J-M Ranch & HorseBums
1393 Green Valley Rd.
Napa, CA 94558
(707) 258-1937 tel & fax
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:35:06 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <980115113506_-2002393321@mrin39.mx>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback
I guess it's inevitable that I jump in on this, although I didn't plan to.
Having been on the AERC board since 1973 (I know it's nuts!) I was able to
access a few facts--Originally there were no references to elapsed time until
1976, when the guidelines said "the maximum time limit to be determined by
ride management." (I can speak for rides since 1969, and as I recall the
standard of 12 hours for 50's and 24 for 100's was abided by--this of course
was based on the original Tevis of "100 miles in one day.") In 1980 the rule
appeared that "the maximum total elapsed time for a 50 mile ride shall be 12
hours, etc."
Over the years it has been found to be inappropriate to change a whole
rule to accomodate a very small occurrence of deviations, unfortunate as they
may be. In the early days AERC had the reputation of passing rules hurriedly
and then having to backtrack--we ended up looking ridiculous and learned to
be a great deal more careful in making changes.
Someone on the Digest (I forget who) suggested that those who do not
feel capable of completing within the present time requirements should ride
Competitive. HAH! In the Midwest riders often opt to ride endurance
(especially LD) instead of competitive because they can go SLOWER. The
usual mandated OVERALL time for a 25-mile competitive ride is 4 1/2 hours
(sometimes less), and this includes a half-hour break and at least one
10-minute hold on the trail. It would seem that if competitive "wimps" can
finish 25 miles in an hour and a half LESS than endurance riders, on the same
trails, with no "racing" incentives, our present time frames, (as a whole)
should be adequate.
Rule 6.1 does allow completion (Just not Top Ten placing)
in unusual circumstances, and don't forget that COMPLETION includes receiving
POINTS. (i.e. 150 for a 50 miler with 11 or more entrants).
Nuff said! See you in Lexington. Louise Riedel
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Leer Jet Crash/Endurance Horses]
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:00:07 GMT
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:29:20 -0600 (CST), "Glenda R. Snodgrass"
<grs@theneteffect.com> wrote:
>Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
Hey, I like your attitude!
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Leer Jet Crash/Endurance Hor5749 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002763 06457442210 0013126 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com (imo15.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.170]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA16868 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:16:51 -0800 (PST)
From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b0f9f88.34be4417@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:15:00 EST
To: betsy@micoks.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Completion time
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In a message dated 98-01-15 10:27:02 EST, betsy@micoks.net writes:
<< Teddy
I interpreted your response to me as indicating that a person had a choice
in whether to stop and help another rider. I don't see it as a choice at
all, which was what my point was. So, I am assumming that not getting a
completion because you did a good deed falls in the same category as being
over time because of vandalism, slow vet checks and unforseen weather
conditions and other uncontrollable circumstances. Is that correct? - and
per rule, the BOD can be petitioned for an exception. Can the rider do
this, or only the ride management? Sorry for the newbie questions. >>
I don't see it as a choice either....I never fought for my completion when I
helped someone...it did not matter to me...this is an issue someone else must
address. As far as I read it AERC rules make no exception for this. I
suppose rider AND management can petition for such a completion...don't know
what will happen though.
teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d2303788.34be441f@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:15:09 EST
To: grs@theneteffect.com
Cc: darolyn@swbell.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Leer Jet Crash/Endurance Horses]
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In a message dated 98-01-15 11:30:15 EST, grs@theneteffect.com writes:
<<
I was absolutely crushed when, shortly after my first LD, I was proudly
telling the tale to non-horsey friends, one of whom replied "It took you
over THREE HOURS to ride 25 miles? Don't horses go like 30 mph or
something?"
Don't I wish! At 30mph Lakota would be a 100 mile horse in no time. :))))
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
>>
So much for non-horse people...NO WAY can they appreciate what we do....
teddy
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From: Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <62364aab.34be45d8@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:22:30 EST
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time Rule
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In a message dated 98-01-15 05:47:08 EST, jlong@mti.net writes:
> In the 50, the *First Place* time was 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 40
> seconds including holds (I looked it up). Under our current rule,
> *nobody* would have completed the 50. Even with the 15 hour limit we
> only had about a 50% completion rate in the 50.
>
> Does this mean those riders were wimps? That their horses weren't
> good enough for endurance?
In my opinion, no, it means the ride should have been canceled due to extreme
weather conditions.
Linda
San Francisco
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:37:52 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>In a message dated 98-01-15 05:25:13 EST, ruck@internetwis.com writes:
>
><< One of the great things about
> this sport is the support we get from one another even in the heat of
> competition. If one is going to be penalized for not helping a fellow
> rider, we will be putting our sport in jepordy of becoming a less "user
> friendly" sport and turning it into a much more cutthroat activity. >>
>
>if you are in the "heat" of competition..stopping to help a fellow rider will
>in 99.9% of the cases, NOT put you overtime...unless, that is, you consider
>the "turtle" award a "heated" competition....
>
>Teddy
Several years ago I had the honor of racing in with Lawton Johnson for
first place. We were about a mile from the finish and Lawton's horse fell
at a gallop. We were side by side on a hard dirt road and Misty somehow
managed to jump over the crash and I managed to stay on her. I stopped.
Did I consider other riders that might pass and win because they would not
stop. NO, this is not what the sport is about. I made sure that Lawton
did not need immediate first aid, profuse bleeding, compound fracture, out
cold, etc. Since he was dazed but otherwise okay - thank goodness for
helmets - I told him to stay there and I would send help. The ride was
being run by a bunch of nurses who could be of a lot more help than I and
his horse needed a vet.
So after about five minutes I hopped on Misty and I have never ridden as
fast in my life to get back to camp and send help. Lawton was a bit beat
up but he was back in the saddle at a ride three months later as was his
horse and Lawton is still riding this mare. So all ended well.
Was I worried about the ride - absolutely not a comrade was down that was
what was important. When we unintentionally put in rules that puts riders
in a position that they have to be more concerned about completition than
helping a fellow rider, then we need to address the rules. If we do it
intentionally then we better start looking inside to see what we are really
made of.
Joe you have my support 100% in your efforts.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Keep it simple.
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:29:07 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:10:49 EST, RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> wrote:
>Still...there was the ride from hell when the monsoons came and NOBODY would
>have gotten a completion.....how about the ride where the trail markers were
>vandalized and NOBODY knew where to go?
Speaking of keeping it simple, the change need only be a very simple
one. Add the following single sentence to the current rule: "Ride
managers may extend the maximum completion time for a ride by up to
25% as necessary to deal with vandalism or abnormal conditions."
That still keeps a "hard" limit of 15 hours for a 50, so that the
"24-hour 50's" are still prevented; it requires there to be a reason
for the extension; but it gives the ride managers their needed
flexibility. No one is harmed, and nothing is lost from the sport,
but the ability to deal with these situations is gained.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>,
"'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Rules
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:27:50 -0800
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Hooray for you Ann!
dorothy & elly
taylorsville, ca
----------
> From: Blankenship, Ann <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
> To: 'ridecamp' <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: Rules
> Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 4:09 PM
>
> I've been following this thread, with everybody else, agreeing with some
> and disagreeing with some. Finally I want to scream... Why are you
> people DOING these rides? Is it for the stupid points? Is it for the
> free hoofpick you get as a completion award? Don't you just LOVE doing
> it? If you're not out there in the miserable weather in the dead of
> night because you love your horse and the way it makes you feel when you
> two have achieved something together... something's wrong.
>
> Would you begrudge an injured rider because stopping would mean you
> didn't get the lousy 50 points???? The hoofpick???
>
> I agree with Julie. Ride for the sportsmanship, the points will take
> care of themselves.
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:43:03 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
In-Reply-To: <v01540b02b0e3f6ea1c05@[198.252.56.122]>
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Just a thought on the side issue that has come up, re riders having to
choose between helping a fellow rider and receiving completion:
I was a member of NATRC for quite some time before I even owned a horse,
to learn about and get a feel for long distance riding. I read several
ride stories and so forth in various CTR publications that denigrated
endurance riders for their competitive attitude and unwillingness to help
riders in trouble (as well as their poor horsemanship skills, etc., but
that's a different issue). I remember specifically one line that read
something like "At this point, I said to my horse, 'We're not in NATRC
anymore!'" when this rider had a mishap on the trail at an endurance ride
and didn't receive any aid from the first several riders who flew past
her.
Sure, there are rotten people in our sport, just like any other, but if a
rule has the effect, whether intended or not, of exacerbating a situation
such as this, then I believe that effect should be weighed in the
decision-making process. It's a secondary issue, but should nevertheless
be considered, as the AERC BOD should strive, whenever possible, to
improve the public perception of endurance riders and the sport as a whole.
Just my .02.
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time Rule
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:36:28 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c547e9.9148795@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:22:30 EST, Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com> wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-15 05:47:08 EST, jlong@mti.net writes:
>> In the 50, the *First Place* time was 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 40
>> seconds including holds (I looked it up). Under our current rule,
>> *nobody* would have completed the 50. Even with the 15 hour limit we
>> only had about a 50% completion rate in the 50.
>> Does this mean those riders were wimps? That their horses weren't
>> good enough for endurance?
>In my opinion, no, it means the ride should have been canceled due to extreme
>weather conditions.
Uh huh. Well, that was an option. However, a lot of people had gone
to the time and expense to travel to the ride, some from great
distances. I put the ride on out of my own pocket and would have lost
far more money than I could afford if I canceled it (and would
probably have never put on another). So I'm sorry, I believe it was
far better to allow extra time and have a successful ride.
Please tell me, who was hurt by the time extension? Certainly not the
horses -- they were able to be ridden more slowly, which is probably
why we didn't have any get into trouble.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time Rule
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From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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CC: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
>
> Sure, there are rotten people in our sport, just like any other, but if a
> rule has the effect, whether intended or not, of exacerbating a situation
> such as this, then I believe that effect should be weighed in the
> decision-making process. It's a secondary issue, but should nevertheless
> be considered, as the AERC BOD should strive, whenever possible, to
> improve the public perception of endurance riders and the sport as a whole.
>
>Well said Glenda. My feelings exactly.
Dee
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:23:05 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801151823.AA02444@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: PVC corrals
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
I have a set of PVC panels that I made. They are brittle and I have
broken a few legs but they do hold Grey moun and he is a fence pacer
and sometimes gets agressive and bumps the panels (he often ends up tied to
the trailer as I get annoyed with the pacing - feel like he wont have any
energy left for the ride.) I put metal gate hinges on the panels and use
carriage bolts to fasten the panels together and I also pound a few
lengths of 5/8s iron rebar outside the corral to anchor it ( I just tie
the panels to the rebar with twine string.)
Teresa
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:25:51 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801151825.KAA23523@fsr.com>
Subject: Horse Trailer For Sale
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Kris Barats
Email: kftack@minx.reno.nv.us
1997 Trails West Classic II Horse Trailer for sale...white 2 horse
slantload...body length 13'11"...trailer weight 3000lbs....swing down feed
sliding windows...roof vents...single wall construction...30sq ft tack
room....three saddle swing out rack...screened windows in tack
room...dome lights...plenty of tack hooks and 2 blanket rods...in great
shape...used 5 times....asking $4700...email me at kftack@minx.reno.nv.us
or phone (702)787-2007
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To: Jerry Barfield <barfield@primenet.com>
From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
Subject: RE: 5 Speed Transmissions
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
>
>At 06:31 PM 1/14/98 -0700, you wrote:
>>This (torque converter slippage) may have been the case in the past, but
most late model auto have locking torque converters that eliminate lost
motion after a certain speed. Towing in OD depends on overall gearing and
transmission design. I tow a 12-13,000 lb trailer in OD with my Ford with
the E4OD
>>auto with no x-mission heating problems.
>>
>>Jerry Barfield
>>----------
Hi again Jerry,
I finally got the whole technical discussion from my husband this morning on
the way to town to get parts. We do our best talking in the truck these
days <g>.
As you stated, most automatics now have locking Torque convertors.
Locking TCs were put in automatics to give then the mileage equivalant of a
manual transmission. The LTCs are not alwasys in lock position when you are
driving. They only lock when the parameters are right, such as high vaccuum
and low load. When you are under a load, such as pulling a hill, passing,
accellerating, or pulling a load, these preset parameters are not always met
and then the convertor is no longer locked. For example, say you have a GM
with a tach, doing approximately 65 mph on the freeway, as you start to
accellerate, you will see your rpm rise approximately 300 rpm even before
your speed has increased. That rpm difference is taken up in the TC as
slippage which then generates heat, even if you have a Locking TC this
happens, because as I said, it is only locked if the preset parameters are
met. For longevity of the truck and less stress on the whole system, it is
wisest not to drive in overdrive. I don't believe any of the manufacturers
recommend it in their owner's manuals either.
Anne and the Horses
Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:39:17 -0700 (MST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
Subject: RE: 5 Speed Transmissions
OOPS, forgot a couple words in that last transmission this sentence should read.
.... For longevity of the truck and less stress on the whole system, it is
wisest not to drive in overdrive.. WHILE HAULING A LOAD. I don't believe
any of the manufacturers recommend it in their owner's manuals either.
>
Anyway, probably enough said.
>Anne and the Horses
>Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla
>
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'JERRY BARFIELD'" <barfield@primenet.com>,
"'RIDECAMP'"
<ridecamp@endurance.net>,
"'twhowe@inetworld.net'"
<twhowe@inetworld.net>
Subject: RE: AERC Completion Time Rule Feedback
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:06:45 -0800
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Ok, just one more comment from me, and then I'll say no more :)
I want to clarify that I do NOT want to see the completion time =
lengthened,
nor do I want to change the 12/24 hour rule. I think its a good rule, =
and is=20
already plenty generous.=20
When I first started this thread, I was under the impression that there =
was
NO legitimate recourse for a ride manager to take if extenuating =
circumstances
prevented riders from finishing a ride in the prescribed time. Since =
ride
managers do have legitimate *options* for dealing with extenuating =
circumstances
regarding every other aspect of completion criteria (lameness, off =
course,=20
rules broken, missed vet checks, etc) I felt that ride time should also =
have
such consideration.=20
As Ramey pointed out, rule 6.1 does, if taken literally, give ride =
managers
a legitimate option, which is to grant 'completion only', in cases where =
*any*
of the completion criteria (6.a - 6.k) are not met. There is no =
explicit exception
regarding over-time.=20
Maybe what we (AERC) need is a little focus on educating riders and ride
managers on the existing rules. Honestly, Julie's comment to 'keep it =
simple'
is certainly what we all want. But in reality, any time a Rule is made, =
simplicity
is lost. Rule 6 clearly states what the rules are regarding completion. =
And=20
then rule 6.1. states that ride managers may make exceptions to these =
rules=20
based on their opinion of the circumstances.=20
This is not simple.=20
But it does give ride managers additional power and authority to deal
with *their* individual circumstances - and I believe this is a good =
thing.=20
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: JERRY BARFIELD [SMTP:barfield@primenet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 8:15 PM
To: 'RIDECAMP'; 'twhowe@inetworld.net'
Subject: AERC Completion Time Rule Feedback
=09
Hi Terry, I agree with you on this issue and Heidi. The rule should =
stay as is. Any change as Steph is suggesting would only open more =
doors for a lack of clear guidlines and standards in the sport. As =
Heidi said, bad things happen to good people (and sometimes even good =
things happen to bad people) and we all have hard luck some days just as =
in any sport, but then that's the challenge of it all.( Talk about hard =
luck, anyone play golf? Try asking for a "mulligan" in a tournament =
because someone made noise during your backswing.I'm sure there are many =
other sports we could compare this concept too.)
I certainly would not like to see the rule change to make the 12 hour =
limit only the ride time and not including the hold. If that were the =
case some riders could be out 14 1/2 hours more or less, depending on =
how long the hold is for the 50. In the Southwest we have rides all year =
and hence the winter months have little daylight hence if you take the =
full 12 hours you start and finish is the dark as it is. This could be =
a nightmare for ride mangement logistically with vets, volunteers etc, =
plus concern for many riders riding in the dark on many difficult trails =
such as many of the MT trails that exist in Arizona where we ride. =
Managing a ride is a tremendous responsiblity and to make it even harder =
on rider management would certainly discouage people from taking it on.
Lenthening the completion time would probably encourage riders to do 50s =
on horses who are less fit. Horses who are not fit to complete a 50 in =
12 hours should stay with LD rides until they are capable of moving up.
There are a lot of "rider friendly" rides which I think is great as =
long as this means that the riders are helped and supported by =
management, volunteers and great vets to assist them compete safely and =
succeed within the established rules of the sport. =20
Bernita Barfield
Southwind Arabians
Breeding Endurance Horses By Design
Member: Al-Marah Breeders Alliance, LLC
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:19:02 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time & the weather
>>
>> Does this mean those riders were wimps? That their horses weren't
>> good enough for endurance?
>
>In my opinion, no, it means the ride should have been canceled due to extreme
>weather conditions.
Clearly a western rider. While what Joe refered to was extreme - even for
the Southeast, if we cancelled rides here because of high heat/humidity our
riding season would be short indeed. I rmember the Castle Rock ride of a
few years ago and had to smile at the description of the conditions. Those
conditions describe the conditions of a lot of the Southeast rides. Eighty
degrees and 80% humidity can be fairly normal for the East, in particularly
the Southeast.
In FL the lowest humidity I have seen reported by the weather bureau is 45%.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:22:53 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801151922.LAA28339@fsr.com>
Subject: Osceola Ride Question (Kimberly Price)
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Jean Wonser
Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
Looks like an "opps": "Cross as tagged" i.e. a deep creek crossing. Robinson Branch Creek can be deep enough to swim during extreme wetness, as the present flood conditions stand.
Several years ago we placed red flagging on the left side (west) of the crossing to indicate we had crossed safely there.
The funny story that followed is: A rider told me she thought red meant danger, do not go there. So she proceded to swim the crossing and was complaining we had not warned her. I simply asked "Do you think my horse walked on water to place those red flags "(tags in this above typo) Red was used to get attention, not necessarily to mean stay out.
Thanks for the question. We like riding in the Osceola for the 200,000 acres of peace and quiet. Come join us next competition.
Jean Wonser, Trenton Florida
CPF Carrera & CPF Zywy
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: bit to hackamore
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:27:11 -0500
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I've found the mechanical hackamore the most effective, especially when you
must have brakes! Just make sure you fit them on your horse's head when
looking for one. Most I've encountered in the tack stores are muck too
bulky and jab the horses face when you pull the reins back. The best is
one with small mechanical parts that don't hit his or her face. The
perfect one is hard to find. good luck, Lori Sumrall
----------
> From: ridecamp-d-request@endurance.net
> To: ridecamp-d@endurance.net
> Subject: ridecamp-d Digest V98 #39
> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 5:01 PM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ridecamp-d Digest Volume 98 : Issue 39
>
> Today's Topics:
> Flooded and Blizzarded! [
Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve ]
> RE: AERC completion time rule - feed [ truman.prevatt@netsrq.com
(Truman P ]
> Re: 5 Speed Transmissions [ "AJ's Classical Gas"
<ajsgas@imt.ne ]
> Re: Prospects/Prices/etc [ CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
]
> sunscreen for horses [ "The Vervaet's"
<VervaetP@deruyter. ]
> bit to hackamore [ "The Vervaet's"
<VervaetP@deruyter. ]
> Re: Prospects/Prices/etc [ SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com> ]
> Re: Prospects/Prices/etc [ RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> ]
> Re: AERC completion time rule - feed [ RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> ]
> Re: AERC completion time rule - feed [ "Robert J. Morris"
<bobmorris@rmci. ]
> Orthoflex new pad system [ Leonard.LIESENS@DG10.cec.be ]
> Osceola National Forest post; Osceol [ guest@endurance.net ]
> Re: Pendleton Challenge etc [ charla cranor
<arabian@flash.net> ]
> Re: digging to China [ Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
]
> Re: AERC completion time rule - feed [ "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net> ]
> Re: AERC completion time rule - feed [ "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net> ]
> Re: AERC completion time rule - feed [ Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
<ramey@wvi.c ]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:58:49 -0500
> From: Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Flooded and Blizzarded!
> Message-ID: <199801131401_MC2-2F2A-5F5A@compuserve.com>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> Hello all!
>
> I had to laugh out loud at the post from the Californian who said we
> easterners must be getting sick of hearing about the rain in
southern
> CA. Not at all; I've really enjoyed the posts about the rained-out
> ride and the camaraderie that we're missing due to ol' man winter.
>
> This leads me to a question, though:
>
> Since my husband and I are new to all this (competing last year in
> about 3 CTRs), we're doing our best to keep our horses semi-fit thru
> the winter months. We are in western New York, and tend to get lots
> of lake effect snow (not so far this year -- thank you, El Nino,
from
> those of us on the EAST coast!!), so we've got a few drops of borium
> on the shoes, and are ready to rock and roll. Unfortunately, our
work
> has been inconsistent due to the weather. What are the rest of you
> doing to keep your horses fit (and you) during winter?
>
> Should we pack up in the trailer and try to get some work in in an
> indoor arena?
>
> Off the topic, I've been reading all the formaldehyde posts. Being
a
> health and safety manager, I do feel qualified to say. This is
nasty
> #*&!*!! (technical term). Not only a carcinogen, but a very potent
> eye irritant, as has been posted. Do try to use something else, but
> if you must, use impermeable gloves, and goggles if you can. Safety
> first, safety always.
>
> One last question . . . Being from western New York, we
participated
> in one ECTRA clinic (in the Adirondacks), two AHAO rides (near
> Cleveland), and one NATRC ride (near Cleveland,too -- hats off to
Pam
> Pintchuk, if you're out there -- this was a great ride!). We'd like
> to stay within about 6 hours of home, but find our ride options
> somewhat limited. Are there any or organizations out there that we
> are missing? Since we're just getting started and have fairly young
> horses (6 and 7), we're more in it for the fun of it, the miles, and
> having a pleasant time, do let us know if we're missing any rides in
> our area which are known as "a good time."
>
> Thanks to all for your help!
>
> Patti Carey-Stedman and (Belgian/TB) Tess (looking like a cross
> between a woolly mammoth and Snuffleluffagus from Sesame Street)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:21:45 -0500
> From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-Id: <v01540b01b0e16dbb105b@[198.252.56.115]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An unfortunate fact of like is that in the Southeast we sometimes have
> trouble with trail vandlas. They can be quite creative. Not only will
> they take ribbons, but they will use the ribbons to remark the trail for
> you leading riders way off course. This can and will happen during a
ride,
> where it will only impact riders in the middle or back of the pack.
While
> ride management can do all they can to mitigate this problem, it cannot
be
> totally eliminated. I really don't belive a tough luck - to hell with
you
> is the correct response in this situtation. While placement is probably
not
> called for, I believe milage - assuming the necessary milage was cover -
> is.
>
> Truman
>
>
>
>
> Truman Prevatt
> Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
> Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
> The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
> Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
>
> Sarasota, FL
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:23:32 -0700 (MST)
> From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
> To: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
> Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: 5 Speed Transmissions
> Message-Id: <199801131923.MAA05273@cu.imt.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Dorothy,
>
> I asked my husband to explain this to me. Here is the scoop. He said
that
> particularly if you have an automatic even if it has an auxillary cooling
> system (doesn't matter what make), it's never a good idea to haul in
> overdrive. The reason being, there is a torque convertor that slips
inside
> an automatic. In the higher gears (overdrive) this convertor slips more
> causing friction and a heat build up within you transmission fluid. As
the
> transmission fluid heats up, it begins to lose it's ability to lubricate.
As
> the lubrication factor decreases, there is more friction, more heat build
up
> and eventually the transmission fluid will fail, leaving metal on metal.
> That's when things break. There are alot of factors that go into how
long
> it takes for this to happen. Terrain, speed, degree of throttle, etc.
>
> Now in a manual transmission, he said that some are better than others,
but
> that still you always have a risk factor. When your transmission in in
4th
> gear, you have a direct ratio of 1 to 1 between your engine and the
rearend
> (essentially by-passing the gears) as your drive shaft is turning at the
> same speed as your engine. When you shift into 5th or overdrive, your
drive
> shaft is then turning faster than the engine. It all depends on the
> strength of the gears in 5th/overdrive, the amount of torque, terrain,
and
> throttle speed again as to whether on not you have a failure at this time
> when hauling. The temptation with a manual for many people is to stick
it
> in overdrive, put the cruise control on and go. When you do this, you
never
> know where your throttle is, it can be wide open or not, just to maintain
> your speed. Anyway, he said that he loves people who haul in
5th/overdrive,
> as it means bread and butter at our shop <g>, but I'd better not do it,
> because he doesn't want to have to traipse across the country to come
rescue
> me if I break down.
>
> Anne and the Horses
> (Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
> At 08:10 AM 1/12/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >Ask your husband if that applies when you're on a freeway that's flat.
I
> >put our Chevy Diesel into overdrive when I'm going 60 on the freeway,
but
> >I'll quit doing that if he says to.
> >
> >Dorothy & Elly
> >taylorsville, ca
> >
> >----------
> >> From: AJ's Classical Gas <ajsgas@imt.net>
> >> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> >> Subject: 5 Speed Transmissions
> >> Date: Saturday, January 10, 1998 12:58 PM
> >>
> >> You said that you had a 5-speed transmission in your 1996 Chevy
diesel.
> >I
> >> only know that my husband has told me never to haul the trailer in
> >overdrive
> >> or 5th gear. He is a mechanic and has replaced many 5th gears in
> >> transmissions where the person was hauling a trailer (sometimes that
gear
> >> has gone out in only one trip). So, to be on the safe side, don't use
> >> overdrive/5th when hauling, because if it does break, your stuck till
a
> >> wrecker hauls you in (ick).
> >> Anne & the horses
> >> (Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
> >
> >
> Anne & the horses
> (Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:00:07 EST
> From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
> To: barfield@primenet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
> Message-ID: <13e32001.34bb8f89@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
> I think Jerry Barfield said it better than any of us. Thanks, Jerry.
>
> Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:24:22 -0500
> From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
> To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: sunscreen for horses
> Message-Id: <199801131701.JAA26235@fsr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
> I have a horse with a white face/nose. He gets sunburned in the summer.
> Should I use regular human sunscreen? Is there a product designed for
> horses that anyone's tried?
> Paula
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:31:08 -0500
> From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
> To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: bit to hackamore
> Message-Id: <199801131708.JAA27738@fsr.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
> I want to try a hackamore on horses that have been previously ridden in
> bits (mild types). Any suggestions in change over? Do I just "do it", or
> is there something that I should do in-between to help adjust them to it?
> What type would everyone recommend....mechanical hacks.....or other
types?
> Thanks
> Paula
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:50:55 EST
> From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
> To: barfield@primenet.com
> Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
> Message-ID: <36f2f3cf.34bb8d60@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 98-01-13 02:31:27 EST, you write:
>
> << The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would
not
> lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect. The high
croups
> and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not what
get
> you to the other side of the mountain and back. Not to mention the long
> cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring. >>
> AMEN to THIS - been there and seen it all!
> sandy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:45 EST
> From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
> To: barfield@primenet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Prospects/Prices/etc
> Message-ID: <9a741d86.34bb9d46@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 98-01-13 04:04:34 EST, you write:
>
> << The direction of the Arabian show world over the recent years would
not
> lead me to a "show" breeder for my next endurance prospect. The high
croups
> and somewhat light loins that get pinned in halter classes are not what
get
> you to the other side of the mountain and back. Not to mention the long
> cannon bones required for the height that sells in the show ring. >>
>
> Also, the "show breeders" no NOTHING when it comes to performance
> conformation...neither do the judges. PLUS, many of these horses are
OVERFED
> and STEROIDED to increase early growth...too much too soon. They are,
IMO,
> NOT a good prospect (unless you are lucky enought to get the NICE one
when he
> is 3 months old - even then, the MARE is often overfed to produce a
bigger
> foal - that is transmitted on to a foal that is asked to grow to soon too
fast
> BEFORE he is born).
>
> Teddy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:58:47 EST
> From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
> To: bobmorris@rmci.net, equine_athletes@hotmail.com,
ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-ID: <dc331886.34bb9d49@aol.com>
> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>
> In a message dated 98-01-13 04:04:42 EST, bobmorris@rmci.net writes:
>
> <<
> Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This
is
> ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
every
> thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the
thing
> may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
was
> not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
"if
> I don't finish I will complain".
>
> Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
> >>
>
> Maybe it did, Bob. BUT, consider the expertise of ride managers (some
> judgements regarding trail difficulty not made well, MANY courses not
measured
> well) and course designers (ditto) and good old mother nature....there
ARE
> instances when times cannot be met through NO fault or decision on the
part of
> the rider. I still vote for total RIDING time, not just total time.
>
> Teddy
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:59:15 -0700
> From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
> To: "Steph Teeter" <step@fsr.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-Id: <199801132001.MAA15086@fsr.com>
>
> Steph & Ride Camp:
>
> Long before the Trilby/Les episodes (my apologies to you both, but this
is
> how it is recognized) I find in the 1980 Ride Managers Handbook (Jim
> Remillard was AERC Pres.) the following:
>
> A prescribed maximum time is usually set for completion of the ride.
> Typically this is 12 hours for 50 miles, and 24 hours for 100 miles
>
> This was an offshoot of the Tevis "100 miles in one day". My records do
not
> extend back beyond that as far as Ride Managers handbooks are concerned.
>
> I have always been in favor of the 12 hour rule and continue to do so.
(as
> you can see from my recent posts.)To me it is disconcerting to have
> persons, with inadequately prepared horses and/ or not properly prepared
> themselves, who are not willing to be prepared to COMPETE, be given the
> same recognition as those persons making the effort.
>
> If at my age (and that also includes Arlene and many others of like
> longevity such as Bill Ansenberger, Julie Suhr and Bob Suhr and many
> others), if we ask no quarter, no special conditions, then let the
younger
> set, those wanting special considerations show why they REALLY need
them.
>
> To finish is to win and winning is not a given in life
>
> Bob Morris
> Morris Endurance Enterprises
> Boise, ID
>
> ----------
> > From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
> > To: 'bobmorris@rmci.net'; ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> > Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 11:23 AM
> >
> > Bob - I have a couple questions for you:
> >
> > As Joe Long pointed out, there was originally NO time limit
> > imposed by AERC. The rule came about because of individuals
> > trying to ride a billion miles in one season, and the only way
> > they could do it was if they walked the entire course. So they
> > did, and it kept ride managers up all night and drove everyone
> > crazy.
> >
> > So, were you in favor of the new time limit rule when it was
> > proposed? I assume you were competing at the time. And
> > if so, why was 12 hours the magic number? This is still a
> > pretty slow pace for a *real* endurance ride.... and when the
> > rule was originally put in place, did it address the question
> > of variation in hold times, or did that come about later?
> >
> > st
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Robert J. Morris [SMTP:bobmorris@rmci.net]
> > Sent: Monday, January 12, 1998 9:00 PM
> > To: Linda Van Ceylon; ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> >
> > Linda and Ride Camp:
> >
> > I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire
rule
> > 61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not
those
> > finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!! Ramey , you should know
> better!!
> >
> > <<The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of
> > courses we have>>
> >
> > This is the name of the game, meet the challenge and endure. No one
said
> > the bear in the cave you enter would be in a good mood!!!
> >
> > <<Then if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets
> really
> > bad, etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to
the
>
> > rule.>>
> >
> > This is ENDURANCE RIDING, not a therapy session to make every one feel
> > good. Adversity builds character and personal strength. These excuses,
> and
> > they are really excuses, would be a crutch for those with out strength,
> > with out the ability to take things as they occur. If I do not finish a
> > ride it is MY fault, not the fact there was not enough time, the trail
> was
> > mismarked, the weather was bad etc. IT WAS MY FAULT AND I DO NOT NEED
AN
> > EXCUSE!!!
> >
> > <<> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more
> > discussion.>>>
> >
> > Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This
> is
> > ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
> every
> > thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the
thing
> > may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
> was
> > not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
> "if
> > I don't finish I will complain".
> >
> > Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
> >
> > Bob Morris
> > Morris Endurance Enterprises
> > Boise, ID
> >
> > ----------
> > > From: Linda Van Ceylon <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> > > To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > > Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> > > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 8:21 PM
> > >
> > > Hi Steph,
> > >
> > > I think Ramey's argument is sound. We already have a rule to deal
with
>
> > > the overtime situation. It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but,
> to
> > > me, it seems clear.
> > >
> > > . And, it seems in some cases, there is a great
> > > variation of the number of feet in a mile. Here in our area, there
are
>
> > > 5,280 ft. per mile. That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over
4
>
> > > hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win. Granted, sometimes
> > > there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are
> > > miscalculated. But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage
> > > accurate.
> > >
> > > On a really tough course, with two vet holds, it is really easy to be
> > > pushing the 12 hour envelope. The suggestions of other ride
managers,
> > > and many riders, seems to be "just make the course shorter, no one
will
>
> > > ever complain about a course that is too short". Well, I just don't
> > > think this is right.
> > >
> > > In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change
the
>
> > > rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only.
Then
> > > if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really
bad,
>
> > > etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the
> > > rule.
> > >
> > > We have particular problems with LD rides. Because, when you include
> > > the hold times in the total 6 hours they get, this magnifies the
speed
> > > they are actually doing on the course compared to the longer
distances.
>
> > > Let's say you have 2 vc's in your 25-miler and your 50-miler. At 1.5
> > > hours total hold time, the 50's must average 4.76 mph but, the 25's
> must
> > > average 5.55 mph. while they are on the trail. The 25's have to "go
> > > like h..." to meet the cut-off. This is not in keeping with my
> > > philosophy of the purpose of LD.
> > >
> > > I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more discussion.
> > >
> > > Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
> > > Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> > > 2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO 80526
> > > 970-226-1099
> > >
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:07:31 +0100
> From: Leonard.LIESENS@DG10.cec.be
> To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: Orthoflex new pad system
> Message-ID:
<WIN938-980113190802-64AD*/G=Leonard/S=LIESENS/O=DG10/PRMD=CEC/ADMD=RTT/C=BE
/@MHS>
> Content-Identifier: Orthoflex new pa
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> I gor finally my Orthoflex saddle. Wonderful. exactly what I was
expecting as color, but their new pad system...
>
> The one I rode during the Tevis had booties and the whole system was
looking perfect and did peerfectly work, I mean for Sukaro HCC, Steph's
arab gelding.
>
> But now they changed this and the saddle was delivered with a so_called
'numnah' which is made of 2 parts :
> - one is a white fleece shaped as a saddle with felt on one side and
something looking like wool (but it can be synthetic as well) on the other
side.
> - the other part is something looking like a regular dressage/jumping
saddle pas, but with a whole shaped as a saddle in the middle and velcro
attachments.
>
> No schema, no explanation or getting started to be found...
>
> I think that the white fleece goes on the horse with the whole part in
contact of the horse and the felt in contact with the panelling system.
>
> The pad with the whole seems to be there only as a finishing touch, maybe
to protect or hide the panelling system and presumely goes on top of the
first pad and around the saddle.
>
> Are other ridecamp buddies experimenting this new system and can you tell
me if I am right or not.
>
> Thanks for help
>
> Leonard, from Belgium
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:50:24 -0800 (PST)
> From: guest@endurance.net
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Osceola National Forest post; Osceola l00 results Post;
> Message-Id: <199801132050.MAA17760@fsr.com>
>
> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
> You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>
> From: Jean Wonser
> Email: cpfjean@bellsouth.net
>
> Please determine the problem as the two above news items do not appear
on the Archives other than their respective titles (January l2 and l3,
l998). As a browser I'd like to read the results. etc.
>
> Thanks
> Jean Wonser
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:05:10 -0800
> From: charla cranor <arabian@flash.net>
> To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Pendleton Challenge etc
> Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980113210510.006b1e14@pop.flash.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Becky Hackworth is considering taking on this ride with alot of help.
> I would e-mail her. Her husband already arranges all the entertainment
> ,and activities on 32nd St. Naval Base.
>
> Charla Cranor
> Alpine, Ca.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 08:28 AM 1/13/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >> If the ride were ever to be held again, the ride mgr or spouse must be
> >> in the military, dunno whether it has to be an officer or not, since
it
> >> takes place on the military reservation.
> >
> >
> >Is it just a matter of having someone in the RM's group be military?
> >David is Navy Reserve, AND an officer and drills all the time at
> >Pendleton. He definitely has the connections, but neither of us are
> >experienced enough to just jump in and say, Shazam, we're ride
> >managers. But if it's a matter of just needing someone involved with
> >all the right connections...well, those we got.
> >
> >Susan Garlinghouse
> >
> >
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 13:22:19 -0800
> From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
> To: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
> CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: digging to China
> Message-ID: <34BBDB0B.5A35@fea.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Craig W. Hadley wrote:
> He said that every so often they have to
> > change out their rubber conveyor belts. He put our name on a waiting
>
>
> I know a few people who use rubber conveyor belts in their stall. They
> do a good job but are easier for the horse to move around then the
> heavier rubber mats.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:45:58 GMT
> From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-ID: <34c4dfda.353466788@mail.mti.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> On Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:00:08 -0700, "Robert J. Morris"
> <bobmorris@rmci.net> wrote:
>
> >Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!! This
is
> >ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
every
> >thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the
thing
> >may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
was
> >not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
"if
> >I don't finish I will complain".
>
> Bob, you know I've often agreed with you in the past about the
> challenge of *endurance* ... but that challenge is a real challenge,
> against the trail. We don't need arbitrary rules or barriers to
> produce it. The "good old days" when trails were tough and no one
> complained (did they really exist?) also were the days when the AERC
> didn't have a riding time rule.
>
> --
>
> Joe Long
> jlong@mti.net
> http://www.mti.net Business
> http://www.rnbw.com Personal
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:48:00 GMT
> From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-ID: <34c5e098.353656300@mail.mti.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> On Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:02 -0700, Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
> <ramey@wvi.com> wrote:
>
> >Gosh Bob, maybe I goofed. But I quoted the entire Rule 6.1 in my post
> >to Steph. Could you point out the additional langauge that limits Rule
> >6.1 to Top Ten Finishers?
>
> >Save yourself the effort, Bob, it's not there. Your argument is based
> >upon your personal interpretation and understanding of the rules.
>
> Rule 6.1 isn't limited to Top Ten, but the AERC Board has always held
> that it doesn't allow exceptions to the time limit, either. Perhaps
> that needs to be made more clear, but I wouldn't advise a ride manager
> trying to allow an overtime completion based on it.
>
> --
>
> Joe Long
> jlong@mti.net
> http://www.mti.net Business
> http://www.rnbw.com Personal
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 14:04:02 -0700
> From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
> To: bobmorris@rmci.net
> CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Message-ID: <34BBD6B8.7E50@wvi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> Gosh Bob, maybe I goofed. But I quoted the entire Rule 6.1 in my post
> to Steph. Could you point out the additional langauge that limits Rule
> 6.1 to Top Ten Finishers?
>
> Save yourself the effort, Bob, it's not there. Your argument is based
> upon your personal interpretation and understanding of the rules.
>
> My discussion was based on the actual words of the rule itself. Nothing
> in the rule limits it's application to top ten finishers, they are only
> mentioned. Since the rule was adopted as written, it is subject to my,
> as well as your, interpretation. In other words it is ambiguous.
>
> You might note that in most cases a court will reverse any sanction
> issued to a rider based upon an alledged violation of an ambiguously
> written rule.
>
> So now I suppose you will argue we should all know what the rules mean
> regardless of what they say. Skip it, Bob, I've heard that one before.
>
> Ramey.
>
> --------------------------------
> End of ridecamp-d Digest V98 Issue #39
> **************************************
it seems clear.
> > >
> > > . And, it seems in some cases, there is a great
> > > variation of the number of feet in a mile. Here in our area, there
are
>
> > > 5,280 ft. per mile. That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over
4
>
> > > hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win. Granted, sometimes
> > > there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are
> > > miscalculated. But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage
> > > accurate.
> > >
> > > On a really toug5766 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002336 06457462402 0013126 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from seahorse.fsr.com (seahorse.fsr.com [207.141.24.22]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA29975 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:35:26 -0800 (PST)
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'Joe Long'" <jlong@mti.net>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Completion time
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:38:43 -0800
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Under current rules there is *no* provision for a rider earning a
completion if finishing after the time limit, *no matter what the
circumstances.* Although any member can petition the Board for
anything they wish, I know of no case where the Board has approved a
completion for an overtime rider, and I doubt they would do so.
[Steph Teeter]
I disagree - I think rule 6.1 does allow this, as it is written. (not
necessarily as it was intended).
Steph
(I know... I wasn't going to say anthing else...)
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:56:45 -0500
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Subject: Re: Sore Feet
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The hoof hardening product I mentioned called Pad Heal is sold by Anico
Vet Products. The number is 1-800-462-6426. They also sell yucca and
other natural remedies. I've been pleased with them and appreciate not
dealing with carcinogens to toughen hooves.
Karen
Ormond Beach
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Cc: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time Rule Feedback
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:31:29 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34be701a.19439083@mail.mti.net>
References: <01BD21A5.AC9C8060@seahorse.fsr.com>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:06:45 -0800, Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com> wrote:
>As Ramey pointed out, rule 6.1 does, if taken literally, give ride managers
>a legitimate option, which is to grant 'completion only', in cases where *any*
>of the completion criteria (6.a - 6.k) are not met. There is no explicit exception
>regarding over-time.
I'd like to point out, again, that Ramey is mistaken. The AERC Board
does not consider 6.1 as allowing awarding a completion to a rider who
does not meet the time criteria, no matter what the reason. This is
clear from discussions in Board meetings. The black&white rationale
for denying the application of 6.1 is that making the time longer
prima facia makes the course easier.
It is my opinion that if any rider is awarded completion after
finishing later than the 12 hours/50 mile time, based on 6.1, that if
it is contested the AERC will *not* honor the completion. This is not
to say that it will not slip by if no one objects ... the AERC is lax
about checking such things when they post ride results (look at the
rides with multiple riders having times of 11:59, or even 10:29 when
there are 90 minutes of vet checks; pretty obvious, but they get
posted anyway). But it would only be because nobody caught it; if it
comes to a protest I believe their completion would be denied.
IMO that's no way to run a railroad.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:44:30 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Subject: More on picket lines?
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Continuing the picket line thread, what if there are no trees available
in the area to attach one end of the picket line to---what then? Is
there some alternative that you can bring with you and is still safe?
Have to admit, I like the idea, just not sure of the details...
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:51:26 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
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> what if there are no trees available in the area to attach one end of
> the picket line to---what then? Susan Garlinghouse
Before I made my PVC corral, I used to unhitch the truck and trailer and
string the picket line between the the two.--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
BOZ Saddlery: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/5157/boz.htm
Psychic Horse Readings:
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/5212/pegasus.htm
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:54:55 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c37763.21305105@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:44:30 -0800, Susan Evans Garlinghouse
<suendavid@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Continuing the picket line thread, what if there are no trees available
>in the area to attach one end of the picket line to---what then? Is
>there some alternative that you can bring with you and is still safe?
Unhitch the trailer, move the truck, and run the line between truck
and trailer.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <50b8dc6e.34be8469@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:49:27 EST
To: patfred@snowcrest.net, step@fsr.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-14 04:59:27 EST, patfred@snowcrest.net writes:
> If specific things are named, there
> is always some strange thing that breaks the rule.
>
OK, here's a "strange thing" that happened to me years ago. How would all you
ride managers have handled this situation?
It was the Diamond 50 at Mt. Lassen, Calif. One of the vet checks was moved
from the previous year's location. Unfortunately, there was a
misunderstanding with the vets, and they went to the location of the old vet
check. The trail markers did not lead the riders to the "new" vet check,
therefore those who stayed religiously with the marked trail never got to that
vet check and therefore did not pass it.
The "old" vet check, where the vets were waiting for us, was visible from the
trail if you happened to be looking in that direction. I and about 20 other
riders saw the vets and followed the path down to where they were. We went
through this vet check, but upon leaving, we were directed to flags that
followed the old trail; these were flags from the previous year that took a
different route (hmm, funny how they looked a little faded . . .). Eventually
we ran out of flags, and floundered about until someone who knew the area
found the correct trail. This cost us at least an hour.
So, here's the ride manager's dilemma: Half the riders stayed on the trail
and did the complete ride. But they did not go through the first vet check.
The other half went through all vet checks, but missed some of the trail and
came in an hour later than they would have had they stayed on the trail.
What would you do as a ride manager?
Linda
San Francisco
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:13:16 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c48962.25912280@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:49:27 EST, Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com> wrote:
>So, here's the ride manager's dilemma: Half the riders stayed on the trail
>and did the complete ride. But they did not go through the first vet check.
>The other half went through all vet checks, but missed some of the trail and
>came in an hour later than they would have had they stayed on the trail.
>What would you do as a ride manager?
This is a tough occurence, but the correct action is clear from your
summary above. The riders who followed the correct trail get their
placings -- it was not their fault the vets were not in the right
place. The riders who went off-trail to the vets (and otherwise
completed OK) get completion only.
Unfortunate, but I don't see what else you can do after the fact.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback5774 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002566 06457511616 0013134 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.cfw.com (milo.cfw.com [205.219.240.6]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10272 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:53:43 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:38:51 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: New Zealand Blankets
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Re the talk of coolers and blankets:my "New Zealand" blanket has been
superb.It is extremely heavy,dense weave waxed "canvas" or "Jute" or
somesuch,over wool felt. You can put it on a soaking wet and severely
chilled horse,add hay,and he'll emerge dry and warm after several hours.
The wool felt also will be dry,the moisture having evaporated upward
through the canvas."Water-proof yet breathable" of course is also the
way Gore-Tex performs,but unlike Gore-Tex the New Zealand seems pretty
indestructible.Not cheap,but money well spent.P.S.I have TWO sprained
wrists today,but this time it was my fault and not Chico's.He knew HE
could fit under the Locust branch,and nobody told him whoa or
anything,so.....
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To: URRacing@elknet.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sore Feet
Message-ID: <19980116.053234.3358.2.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <B0000403245@mail.elknet.net>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:34:00 EST
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:08:00 -0600 "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
writes:
>Roger,
>
> I "m assuming you're
>working under a veterinarians recomendations. However I would strongly
>recomend not using an easy boot.Easy boots trap all moisture and heat
>in
I used an Easyboot when packing a horse's foot with Ichthammol, and it
ate clear through the heal strap. Am I the only one this has happened
to? It's been years ago, maybe I dreamed it. I never risk damaging a
boot like that any more.
Angie McGhee
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jessica Tuteur <jessicat@napanet.net>
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
>OK, here's a "strange thing" that happened to me years ago. How would all you
>ride managers have handled this situation?
>
As a ride manager I would give completion to both sets of riders. In my
opinion missing a vet check that was "missing in action" is not reason for
disqaulification.
Jessica
*****************************************************************
Jessica Tuteur, Ride Manager Wine Country 50 6/6/98
J-M Ranch & HorseBums
1393 Green Valley Rd.
Napa, CA 94558
(707) 258-1937 tel & fax
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To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
Message-ID: <19980116.053234.3358.4.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:34:00 EST
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:44:30 -0800 Susan Evans Garlinghouse
<suendavid@worldnet.att.net> writes:
>Continuing the picket line thread, what if there are no trees
>available
>in the area to attach one end of the picket line to---what then? Is
>there some alternative that you can bring with you and is still safe?
>
>Have to admit, I like the idea, just not sure of the details...
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
Trailor to trailor works. A friend of mine has just invented a tall
pole, with guide wires. She thinks it will work, but hasn't tried it. I
have no intention of letting my horse near it.
Angie McGhee (Who still has the old PVC corral for treeless rides)
>
>
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To: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time & the weather
Message-ID: <19980116.053234.3358.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <v01540b01b0e4105a1640@[198.252.56.113]>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:34:00 EST
Hey Truman, I remember my first trip out west. We got to the Grand
Canyon and they said it was 109 degrees. I thought, they're insane, it's
85 at the most! One day it was 113, and it really wasn't any worse than
our usual 94. Since then, I have witheld pity when I saw their heat
waves on the weather map.
Angie McGhee, "Who almost FROZE when she stepped out of a pool on a day
out west with no humidity!
On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:19:02 -0500 truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman
>Clearly a western rider. While what Joe refered to was extreme - even
>for
>the Southeast, if we cancelled rides here because of high
>heat/humidity our
>riding season would be short indeed. I rmember the Castle Rock ride
>of a
>few years ago and had to smile at the description of the conditions.
>Those
>conditions describe the conditions of a lot of the Southeast rides.
>Eighty
>degrees and 80% humidity can be fairly normal for the East, in
>particularly
>the Southeast.
>
>In FL the lowest humidity I have seen reported by the weather bureau
>is 45%.
>
>Truman
>
>
>
>Truman Prevatt
>Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
>Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
>The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
>Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
>
>Sarasota, FL
>
>
>
hen I saw their heat
waves on the weather map.
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Message-ID: <34BEAC94.645@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:40:52 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
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Organization: Plough Electric
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Subject: saddle for sell....
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I have this used saddle I would like to sell. Problem is, I don't know
who made it! So, I will describe to the best of my ability and if
anyone is interested I can either ship it to you or mail you a photo.
Western type endurance saddle (No Horn).
15-1/2 to 16" (not sure!)
Dark Brown with a darker suede seat....real pretty.
Lots and Lots of D rings, snaps etc.
Fiberglass tree.
Custom made in Dallas.
Stirrup leathers etc are in the western style.
Weights around 13 pounds, no synthetic material..all good leather.
This saddle would probably be good for the "western" rider who wants
something lighter. It has a deep seat and it would fit a wide horse. Of
course, if it doesn't fit, send it back.
I used this saddle for a few years before I went english and then I went
to the sportsaddle which I love. I bought it new for $450 and am asking
$300. It is a great backup saddle so I can't see selling it for less,
might as well just keep it. BUT, it is after xmas and I need some money
for those bills!!!
SO, if interested, email me. I am in No. Cal. and have easy access to
shipping, so shipping is included in the price unless you return it.
Kimberly Price
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Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:50:37 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:56:15 -0800
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Share with somebody and run it between a couple of trailers.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
>Continuing the picket line thread, what if there are no trees available
>in the area to attach one end of the picket line to---what then? Is
>there some alternative that you can bring with you and is still safe?
>
>Have to admit, I like the idea, just not sure of the details...
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
>
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: tying to the trailer
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:55:00 -0800
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I don't know about tying to a trailer without a truck attached to it.
My cousin tells a funny story about tying one of her working cow horses
to an unhooked trailer only to look out the window to see the horse
walking along with the trailer in tow... Of course, this WAS a cow
horse so maybe he thought he was roping or something. I guess I'd just
say to block the trailer VERY securely.
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From: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:01:47 EST
To: dfletche@GTE.NET, suendavid@worldnet.att.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Re: More on picket lines?
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I also like using a picket line. Most lines/ropes I've tried have a tendency
to stretch over a couple days. Has anyone found one that doesn't stretch?
Cindy
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Reply-To: <URRacing@elknet.net>
From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Sore Feet Paula
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:18:55 -0600
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Paula,
Epsom salts plus is made
by Old Western Products Ltd. We get it at a race track in Chicago.Try a
race track supplier or catalog dealer for race horses. Its also great for
legs, sore backs, and even as a body wash. We love it. If you have any
problem finding it let me know. I could probably have them ship you some
from Chicago. Elaine
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From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Sore Feet Angie
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:31:19 -0600
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Angie,
Any product that contains
petroleum may react with some types of rubber. You're right it can eat
right through it. You weren't dreaming.
Elaine
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Message-ID: <34BEBC8E.FA47FD89@lansford.ndak.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:49:07 -0600
From: Lynette Helgeson <helgeson@lansford.ndak.net>
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To: KIMBERLY PRICE <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training..tap,tap,tap
References: <199801120324.VAA25319@dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com>
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KIMBERLY PRICE wrote:
> You wrote:
> I borrowed from John Lyons' trailer loadingmethods to get him to go by
> cows. When he stops, I tap him gently with thedressage whip--tap, tap,
> tap--until he moves just one foot. Then I stop. Thentap, tap, tap
> again, until he takes another step. As long as he takes a step
> forward, he gets rewarded by having the tapping stop. Seems to work.
>
> The worst he does is a 180 degree spin in a millisecond. Once, up in
> the mountains, he got me off when he saw some deer. Another time, I was
> hangingoff the edge and simply willed myself back into the saddle.
I would guess that the reason he is doing the 180 degree spin is tokeep you
from tap, tap, tapping. That is the problem with John Lyons
and Pat Paretti, etc. methods. They work wonderfully on stock horses
but not always on Arabians.
I have trained many different breeds of horses and it took me awhile
to realize that when you train an Arabian you are working with a
totally different animal. And this is a prime example of that. The
very best way to train an Arabian to not be spooky is for you to
gain his trust. If he trusts that you will not let any horse eating
monsters get him and he will go anywhere for you.
In fact the Arabian is such a loyal horse that if he trust you he will
go where even the calmest horse will fear to tread.
For example, your Arabian is coming up to something that scares
him, his instinct tells him to run. You hold him to face it and start
tapping him, he is trained to move away from pressure so he moves
forward, still scared but feeling trapped, like he has no choice. He is
not learning to trust you, you are forcing him towards it, so he is
mistrusting you. You are forcing him into a situation that he does
not like. So next time instead of giving you a chance to tap him
towards something that scares him he is just going to wheel and run.
Now stock horses are not always that quick thinking and they will
not always look for another way out of something, but an Arabian
always will look for another way. When training an Arabian you always have
to be
out thinking the horse. If something is not working, don't keep
doing it because it worked for someone else. Put yourself in your
horse's place and see it through his eyes.
If anyone is interested in more details on the ways that I use to gain
an Arabians trust. E-mail me.
Lynette Helgeson
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fn: Lynette Helgeson
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org: Diamond-H Ranch
email;internet: helgeson@lansford.ndak.net
title: Home of Dakota Ponies
note: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps not record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: bit to hackamore
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:06:04 -0500
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VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us wrote asking about hackamores.
Myself and those I ride with have just instantly switched our horses to
hackamores with no problems, even with those horses who'd never seen such a
gadget. I definitely recommend the mechanical type if you need brakes.
It's much more effective. You can put a fuzzy halter cover over it or make
one out of better material of your choice at home. One tip: Make sure you
fit the hackamore to your horse. Most that I had tried from tack stores
jabbed the horse in the face when I pulled on the reins. You know, as you
pull the reins, the "mechanical" lever closest to his face is sometimes
much too large, bulky, and creates a nuisance to the horse's face. If you
have trouble, E-mail me and I'll look for a source from which you can get
one like mine. It was hard to find, I must say. Good luck. I think
you'll enjoy it. I know my horse loves it and is darn glad not to have a
bit put in his mouth when I tack him up. Lori Sumrall
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Reply-To: <bkwranch@cmn.net>
From: "Wolgram's" <bkwranch@cmn.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: "forms" of beet pulp
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:21:04 -0700
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I live in NW Colorado and cannot find a source for beet pulp other than
what the feed store owner is calling "beet pulp pellets." Are these OK to
soak and feed the same as the regular beet pulp? Do they absorb as much
water? Are the nutrients, fiber, etc. content the same? If pellets are
not recommended, does someone know where I can get the shredded, dried beet
pulp?
Thanks....Betty from Craig
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Message-ID: <34BEC98A.D07@wvi.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:44:38 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: Joe Long <jlong@mti.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net, Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time Rule Feedback
References: <01BD21A5.AC9C8060@seahorse.fsr.com> <34be701a.19439083@mail.mti.net>
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Whoa there pardner, back up some...
My orginal analysis was about the meaning of some "words" on a piece of
paper (the text of the rule), not historic BoD policy.
In that contex, the rule is ambiguous and this thread is clear and
convincing evidence of the fact.
Ramey
Joe Long wrote:
> I'd like to point out, again, that Ramey is mistaken. The AERC Board
> does not consider 6.1 as allowing awarding a completion to a rider who
> does not meet the time criteria, no matter what the reason. This is
> clear from discussions in Board meetings. The black&white rationale
> for denying the application of 6.1 is that making the time longer
> prima facia makes the course easier.
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time Rule Feedback
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:25:19 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:44:38 -0700, Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
<ramey@wvi.com> wrote:
>Whoa there pardner, back up some...
>My orginal analysis was about the meaning of some "words" on a piece of
>paper (the text of the rule), not historic BoD policy.
>In that contex, the rule is ambiguous and this thread is clear and
>convincing evidence of the fact.
Sorry, no offense intended. I've asked the AERC Board to clarify this
point at the Convention next week.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: tying to the trailer
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:27:32 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:55:00 -0800, "Blankenship, Ann"
<ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov> wrote:
>I don't know about tying to a trailer without a truck attached to it.
>My cousin tells a funny story about tying one of her working cow horses
>to an unhooked trailer only to look out the window to see the horse
>walking along with the trailer in tow... Of course, this WAS a cow
>horse so maybe he thought he was roping or something. I guess I'd just
>say to block the trailer VERY securely.
Also, I run the picket rope over the roof of the trailer and out at
about a ninety degree angle, so the horse cannot get any effective
force in the direction of the wheels. This also keeps the rope
higher.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Proposal to AERC Board re riding tim e
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 03:31:21 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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OK, Ridecampers! Here is the full text of a letter I just FAXed to
the AERC, for consideration by the Board at the Convention next week.
*****
Dear AERC Directors,
I didn"t plan on offering any business for the Board at the
convention, but a recent discussion on the endurance riding mail list,
ridecamp@endurance.net, prompted me to make this proposal.
I know this issue has come up many times before, and changes have
always been rejected. But the recent discussion showed me that the
problem hasn"t gone away, and I believe it needs to be addressed.
I"m referring to the total lack of flexibility on the part of ride
managers to extend the allowed completion time in the event of
abnormal and unexpected conditions, such as vandalism to the trail or
severe weather conditions. This happens to some rides every year.
It is a problem that doesn"t need to be, it is easily fixed. I
suggest adding the following sentence to rule 5:
5.5 Ride managers may extend the maximum completion time for a ride
by up to 25% as necessary to deal with vandalism or abnormal
conditions.
This allows ride managers flexibility to deal with abnormal
conditions, while keeping an upper limit of 15 hours even in such
situations. I believe this change or something similar will finally
put this controversy to rest.
I"m not suggesting this as a rule change to be enacted at the
Convention. I suggest that the Board develop a proposal using this or
similar wording, present it to the membership for their consideration,
and take final action at the mid-year Board meeting for the 1999 ride
season.
By the way, during the discussion a number of people said emphatically
that ride managers already may allow completions to overtime riders,
by means of rule 6.1. Whatever action you take on my proposal I
believe this point needs to be clarified.
Respectfully submitted,
Joe Long
*****
That last paragraph should take care of settling the issue of whether
Rule 6.1 can be used to allow overtime completions. I think it's
better to clear up an ambiguity like that before someone gets involved
in a protest over it.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:45:45 -0600
From: susan <dahlia@gte.net>
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To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: picket lines*
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Chris Paus wrote:
> Can someone tell me what is the best kind of rope to use. Are there >
>picket lines available already made, bucklet ends attached, etc. Are
>there tricks or tips to know about using one?
Chris,
I use what is called a high-line. I made "tree-saver" straps out of old
seat-belts. (You can obtain these at auto junkyards for very little
cost.) I cut off all the hardware and lap the ends back and sew with
strong nylon thread. Do this on both ends. You wrap these around two
trees, distance apart depends on how many horses to be tied to one line.
You want them far enough apart so there are no disagreements and no one
gets tangled up. I put the tree savers up as high as I can, usually
about 12 feet. Run a nylon rope through and tie as tight as possible.
This is much easier to do if someone helps you, it is almost a necessity
to have 2 people. You want the rope you tie the horses to, up high,
horses should be able to walk underneath it.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you want more info or don't understand
what I mean, I'm not sure I conveyed it just right.
Susan - WA
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From: Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d837f312.34bedc4f@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:04:29 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Cc: helgeson@lansford.ndak.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training..tap,tap,tap
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Lynette:
I think you misunderstood what I was doing with my young Arabian. I have never
held him facing something that is scaring him. I've only tapped him after he
stands for several minutes, not turning away or backing up, just not going
forward. As soon as he takes one step forward, I stop the tapping and praise
him. The spinning he's done has been suddenly, unexpectedly (no tapping
involved).
However, this is my first Arabian (all my other horses have been
Thoroughbreds), and I find his intelligence to be way above my current
Thoroughbred (whom I have taken to calling "retarded," out of his earshot, by
comparison). I've also never had a youngster before, and I love the
relationship that we are building.
I would very much like to hear more about how to build trust. I expect
"Charlie" to be a companion for a long time to come. Thanks.
Karen
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:10:56 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Subject: Horse-shop
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Anyone know when horse-shop will be up and running again? I'm just
dying to buy something!
t
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
Subject: Windpuffs
Hi, saw a note the otherday regarding windpuffs and a home recipe for them.
One of my mares (Stuffy) has windpuffs and no one has ever said I could do
anything to help them. I'd be interested in learning more. Pass on the
recipe if you find it. Thanks.
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
Jim & his good stuff
(Vintage Yellowstone Park Buses, parts and NOS)
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:30:51 -0500
From: George deLong <71234.3361@compuserve.com>
Subject: completion time
Sender: George deLong <71234.3361@compuserve.com>
To: reader <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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The current system is working very well, giving ride management and riders
plenty of room to acomodate all of the variables that go into making a
ride.
The results of every ride are published in the Endurance news. Anytime
anyone believes that an "overtime" situation has occurred they have the
right to bring it to the attention of the protest and grievance committee.
AERC is not going to do it on it's own, as the ride manager is
appropriately considered the ulitmate authority on the ride and completion
on site.
If this rule is made more complex trying to cover all possible scenarios
the future will hold "stewards" from AERC being necessary at each ride,
electonic synchronized timing gear etc. for every ride .
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Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:54:43 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "CSimmons99" <CSimmons99@aol.com>, <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>,
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:44:43 -0800
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The construction of the rope may have some bearing on permanent stretch. But
once it is strectched, it should not suffer any further permanent stretch if
not overloaded. The fibers themselves will stretch, but return to their
original size unless overloaded. Knots may tighten or slip a bit, which can
be confused with stretching - polypropylene is particulary slick. Nylon
fibers stretch (and return to size) more than polyester or polypropylene. If
I remember correctly, polyester has the least stretch. Twisted lay stretches
more than braid. The ability to stretch may, in some cases, be an advantage.
A horse cannot sit back and break that which stretches. Then there are
natural fibers: sisal, manila, and cotton - manila would be the normal
choice for a picket line, but while all natural fibers hold knots better,
they are subject to rot. They must be carefully dried after use and store
carefully. I don't remember the stretch characteristics, but would guess
someplace between Nylon and polypropylene.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
>I also like using a picket line. Most lines/ropes I've tried have a
tendency
>to stretch over a couple days. Has anyone found one that doesn't stretch?
>Cindy
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From: "Wilcocks, Carol" <cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au>
To: Arabnracer@aol.com
Cc: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Young horses etc.
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 14:14:00 PST
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Thank you for your advice in regards to my problem with my young fella. I
think that ponying is a great idea, particularly with all the gear on etc.
and will start him out on this as soon as he's shod and maybe even before he
goes to the trainer. Someone made the comment that I should find a 'good'
trainer, as opposed to a 'tough' trainer; in defence of my trainer, I have
seen many problem horses come back from her ultimately very well mannered,
who had failed at attempts with PNH etc. and she is definitely NOT rough in
any way, but very strict in gaining their respect. As you said, many of these
horses that are round pen broke ARE a danger and have no respect at all for
you while on board! I agree with your sentiments exactly.
Regards,
Carol and the gang.
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Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:34:22 -0800
From: Carol Fisher <cfisher@sonic.net>
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Subject: ride completion time
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I like Steph's proposal regarding extenuating circumstances, as
it gives ride managers reasonable guidelines for discretion and takes
away the aura of favoritism/unfairness when exceptions are made/not
made.
A few years ago I started Las Vacqueras with a friend but I got got very
sick with unbelievably painful stomach cramps about 5 miles into the
ride. I could barely move let alone ride but she hung with me until we
managed to get to a place where we connected with staff and they arrange
for me to be trucked back to camp and have someone ride my horse back.
She continued with her ride, but she had lost hours taking care of me.
When it came to the last short loop, she had very little time left and
so she asked ride management if she would get a completion if she came
in after the cut-off time. She was told yes, as long as she didn't fall
behind the drag riders. She did get in before them, but then was told
she was getting the completion award (some small item like a brush or
something) but not the mileage. She was very upset, she would not have
pushed thru that final loop for a free brush! And I felt very bad,
because she and her horse were in fine condition for a very respectable
completion ...
sonic.net>
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:34:22 -0800
From: Carol Fisher <cfisher@sonic.net>
Reply-To: cfisher@sonic.net
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I like Steph's proposal regarding extenuating circumstances, as
it gives ride managers reasonable guidelines for discretion 5800 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001562 06457601300 0013103 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09609 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:48:28 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:48:28 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801160648.WAA09609@fsr.com>
Subject: 1998 Cosequin Challenge Equine Endurance Events
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: vtci@aol.com
Email: vtci@aol.com
The official 1998 Cosequin Challenge Event web site is now operational and contains much information concerning the individual events and event pricing.
For additonal information including competitor or corporate presence informational packets please visit
http://members.aol.com/vtci
or call 540.933.6966
or write
Cosequin Challenge
c/o VTC
792 Boliver Rd
Fort Valley, Va 22652
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From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training..tap,tap,tap..hold on here...
To: Lynette Helgeson <helgeson@lansford.ndak.net>
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Lynette Helgeson wrote:
>
>KIMBERLY PRICE wrote:
>
>> You wrote:
>> I borrowed from John Lyons' trailer loadingmethods to get him to go
by>> cows. When he stops, I tap him gently with thedressage whip--tap,
tap,>> tap--until he moves just one foot. Then I stop. Thentap, tap,
tap>> again, until he takes another step. As long as he takes a step
>> forward, he gets rewarded by having the tapping stop. Seems to work.
>>>> The worst he does is a 180 degree spin in a millisecond. Once, up
in>> the mountains, he got me off when he saw some deer. Another time,
I was>> hangingoff the edge and simply willed myself back into the
saddle.
### Hey Lynette, I did not write the above. You cut it off someone
else's message, probably the same guy I (Kimberly) replied to.
>
>I would guess that the reason he is doing the 180 degree spin is
tokeep you>from tap, tap, tapping. That is the problem with John Lyons
>and Pat Paretti, etc. methods. They work wonderfully on stock horses
>but not always on Arabians.
### But while you are on it, the trailer loading method of tapping
the horse's rear is completely seperate than the spook training by John
Lyons. John Lyon's flavor of NH and Pat Paretti's flavor of NH are
entirely different and should not be generalized as being the same.
I've used the John Lyon's methods on my morab and arabians, and the
horses not only catch the message very quickly, but because they are
just highly sensitive beings, respond to the fair treatment of the
immediate release of stress as a reward.
>
>I have trained many different breeds of horses and it took me awhile
>to realize that when you train an Arabian you are working with a
>totally different animal. And this is a prime example of that. The
>very best way to train an Arabian to not be spooky is for you to
>gain his trust. If he trusts that you will not let any horse eating
>monsters get him and he will go anywhere for you.
###This is entirely true and NH is just one way of showing a horse
he can trust you but on the ground first and with minimum interferance
from dangerous stimuli. The goal is no one gets hurt and the horse is
calmer when he leaves than when he started. I highly suggest you see
some tapes or attend a seminar, or observe a JL trainer in full before
condemning this flavor of Natural Horsemanship.
>In fact the Arabian is such a loyal horse that if he trust you he will
>go where even the calmest horse will fear to tread.
### Arabs have superior brains (uh oh, here come the flame throwers)
or perhaps it is an evolution of the QH to put up with more crap since
they had to live with the old rough handed cowboy mentality to breed
and survive for many generations.... &&&oh nooo, stop, stop!! I'm just
kidding people! <g> (I love all horses for themselves...)
>
>For example, your Arabian is coming up to something that scares
>him, his instinct tells him to run. You hold him to face it and start
>tapping him, he is trained to move away from pressure so he moves
>forward, still scared but feeling trapped, like he has no choice. He
is>not learning to trust you, you are forcing him towards it, so he is
>mistrusting you. You are forcing him into a situation that he does
>not like. So next time instead of giving you a chance to tap him
>towards something that scares him he is just going to wheel and run.
### You are right and this method should not be done as the sole
training or stimuli to move pass a scarey object. I have used it when
Mystery was being just plain stubborn but that is different than being
scared. That is why I say once again trailer loading method, which
uses this tapping as an encouragement, is entirely different than the
"learn to spook in place, face the object, and trust my cues" lessons
taught first in the roundpen and practiced on the trails.... Please do
not confuse or misinterpret these two very different yet connected
lessons....
>Now stock horses are not always that quick thinking and they will
>not always look for another way out of something, but an Arabian
>always will look for another way.
###I know you are only generalizing, but couldn't help to chuckle that
I was on a well trained QH last March 1st that turned on a dime to
escape a frightening situation, throwing me on the side of a hill
wrong, breaking my arm and tearing my entire rotary cuff. Yet Mystery,
my morab thank you the John Lyon's method, has never spun on me since
we took those lessons. Yes, he will spook, but spook in place facing
the object, giving me that extra 1/2 second to react and hey, I can
stay on a horse spooking like that...
When training an Arabian you always have>to be>out thinking the horse.
###Ya know, I fine that is true for every animal. Some just catch
on faster than others. Many times they teach me before I can teach
them...
If something is not working, don't keep>doing it because it worked for
someone else. Put yourself in your>horse's place and see it through his
eyes.
###Both sentences are true and one of the things I like about NH is
they try and teach you to understand the perceptions you are
erroneously giving the animals. You "think" the animal is on the same
wavelength as you, but if you put yourself in his mind looking at what
you are doing toward it, you can see you are often way off track. Make
sense? It trains the trainer, along with the horse.
>
>If anyone is interested in more details on the ways that I use to gain
>an Arabians trust. E-mail me.
### I for one am always interested in training beliefs and methods.
The more I learn the more I realize I don't know. But please, before
you condemn someone else's beliefs, know for certain what you are
condemning. There are many NH trainers I don't believe in, but also
many more I wouldn't think of judging unless I knew their lessons and
philosophy in whole.
### I can't tell if you sent this to the list but I'm gonna copy it
in case you did. I don't want anyone thinking I wrote words I didn't
write and I think this could open up some friendly discussion. Yes, I
know there is a NH site out there, but those people are too high up on
a pedastool for me (and now I'm generalizing). But be careful who you
cut and paste....
### You are completely right that anyway you can earn the trust of a
good horse will work to help calm that flight instinct, and I think
that is what all of us strive to do.
Happy & safe riding to you,
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab..."yeah, I can spook in place..and jump
real high too!!hee,hee,hee!)
>
>Lynette Helgeson
>
>>
>fn: Lynette Helgeson
>n: Helgeson;Lynette
>org: Diamond-H Ranch
>email;internet: helgeson@lansford.ndak.net
>title: Home of Dakota Ponies
>note: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it
does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not
self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps not record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always
protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never
fails.
urance.net
Lynette Helgeson wrote:
>
>KIMBERLY PRICE wrote:
>
>> You wrote:
>> I borrowed from John Lyons' trailer loadingmethods to get him to go
by>> cows. When he stops, I tap him gently with thedressage whip--tap,
tap,>> tap--until he moves just one foot. Then I stop. T5802 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000010214 06457625042 0013110 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA18460 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 01:36:29 -0800 (PST)
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To: CATUNDERWD <CATUNDERWD@aol.com>
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Re: Portable Stalls
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Greetings Cathy!
Like Angela, I made PVC corral panels, which generally work fine except for
the horse prone to pushing them around, especially at the start of rides
when their buddy is leaving and they aren't!
Metal corral panels - too heavy, and I saw a horse at a ride who had a pen
that must have been a 1/4 acre in size put its head under one panel and
dump the whole thing (about 14 panels)!
Electric fences - NO WAY! My horses live all year in pastures that are
subdivided with electric fencing, and they respect them. However, that is
home. Out on the ride is a new experience for everyone. The first ride I
went to I set up my electric corral, and I have never slept worse - it
would never stop my horse if it needed to run away from something. Ask
Larry Kanavy - his horse was killed at a ride where a horse got out of an
electric corral. As a Ride Manager I have been tempted to ban them from
rides - been there, done that - they aren't safe!
Picket lines - They seem to work well, but I have heard of one instance
where a horse got a leg over the lead rope and almost sawed its foot off
trying to get untangled. As with anything, try it at home several times,
and be careful.
My favorite, and what I use: The Safety Fence from Custom Iron Workers.
Would have never bought it until I saw it. Expensive but excellent, and
over time, worth the investment! When first using it, I was on a slant,
and that left slack on one side of the fence - I almost considered leaving
endurance for a career in jumping when I saw my horse - standing - cleanly
clear 4.5' - twice! (I may be slow, but . . . I just couldn't believe it
the first time!), so I ran electric line woven in the top of the fence, and
this is the most secure, easiest to use portable corral system I know of!
This is NOT a paid endorsement (but tell Monte anyway!).
Good luck & Happitrails!
Brad & Tugg!
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 4: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 18: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
* Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride * (Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55
(Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home, Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-6: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Walden,
CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:54:48 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:54:48 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <980116085447_1144311088@mrin53>
To: Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback
Oops! I goofed in my last post when I stated that you get 150 points for
first place on a 50. Should be 50 points of course. Must have been wishful
thinking. Louise Riedel
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:14:20 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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We found that taking solid corrals to a ride was awkward. I have a hard
time lifting them back onto their brackets by myself for the trip home.
We have used a fence system from Tipper-Tie of North Carolina (I know
that they have a web page, just can't put my finger on the address as I
write this). It is a 4" white web "rail" that strings between step in
posts. It is quite substantial looking and shows up fairly well in the
dark as it is white. It has a heavy guage aluminum wire running through
the top of the rail that can be hooked to a hot charger to electrify the
fence if needed. When we're done with it, we roll it up on a spool and
away we go.
I can't be happier with the ease of transport, set up, etc. It appears
to the horses (& people) to be a solid and substantial white rail fence
with relatively good visibility at night. Best of all, I can electrify
it for the one guy who likes to rub on fences.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:34:53 -0500 (EST)
From: David Sonnenberg <furface@liii.com>
To: "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
cc: ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
In-Reply-To: <19980111.025441.11414.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Last year, I was looking for a new horse for barrel racing. I found an ad
for polo ponies andwent to look. The prices started at 20,000 and went up
to 40,000. I rode the 40,000 horse; she did not go as good as my 1,000
horse I just retired. She was no faster and had less of a handle. Can't
always go by price alone.
furface
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From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: picketing details
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:16:58 -0500
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VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
I've always been interested in this concept, but don't know anything about
it. If anyone cares to e-mail me privately, or on ridecamp, and detail how
it works to me, I'd be much grateful! Also, I have 3 horses that would
need to be picketed. How does one keep 3 horses apart, so that they can't
get into trouble with each other? 3 different lines?
Thanks!
Paula
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:33:38 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
X-Sender: bartesc@mallard
To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: beet pulp pellets
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Hey!! I use beet pulp in the pelleted form--did not know you could get
another form for a long time--and it works just fine!! I am careful to
soak longer than you would have to soak the shredded stuff, but from what
I have read on here recently, you do not need to soak as much as I thought
you did!
APPY TRAILS
SAMM C. BARTEE
Auburn, Al. SE Region
with
SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance newbie
85 miles and.....
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ac8ddf44.34bf8dab@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:13 EST
To: cfisher@sonic.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride completion time
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:46:39 EST, cfisher@sonic.net writes:
<< she asked ride management if she would get a completion if she came
in after the cut-off time. She was told yes, as long as she didn't fall
behind the drag riders. She did get in before them, but then was told
she was getting the completion award (some small item like a brush or
something) but not the mileage. She was very upset, she would not have
pushed thru that final loop for a free brush! And I felt very bad,
because she and her horse were in fine condition for a very respectable
completion ... >>
Very unfair to say something then retract it....it has happened to me and I
have seen it happen...perhaps one should carry a pad of paper and "get it in
writing" while on trail....
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8aa22744.34bf8d9e@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:00 EST
To: ajsgas@imt.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 5 Speed Transmissions
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:22:30 EST, ajsgas@imt.net writes:
<< For longevity of the truck and less stress on the whole system, it is
wisest not to drive in overdrive.. WHILE HAULING A LOAD. I don't believe
any of the manufacturers recommend it in their owner's manuals either. >>
My Dodge Diesel owner manual said NOTHING about not towing in overdrive.
Hence I did, and low and behold...new rear end at 68,000 and new transmission
at 102,000.
I will NEVER buy a Dodge again!!!
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <329fac4.34bf8da9@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:11 EST
To: dahlia@gte.net, paus@micoks.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: picket lines*
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:46:04 EST, dahlia@gte.net writes:
<< I use what is called a high-line. I made "tree-saver" straps out of old
seat-belts. (You can obtain these at auto junkyards for very little
cost.) I cut off all the hardware and lap the ends back and sew with
strong nylon thread. Do this on both ends. You wrap these around two
trees, distance apart depends on how many horses to be tied to one line.
You want them far enough apart so there are no disagreements and no one
gets tangled up. I put the tree savers up as high as I can, usually
about 12 feet. Run a nylon rope through and tie as tight as possible.
This is much easier to do if someone helps you, it is almost a necessity
to have 2 people. You want the rope you tie the horses to, up high,
horses should be able to walk underneath it.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you want more info or don't understand
what I mean, I'm not sure I conveyed it just right.
Susan - WA
>>
I have yet to ruin a tree with my poly rope and NO protection for the
tree...But, it IS a good idea....are tress on the west coast more susceptible
to damage than those out here on the East?
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <79fe6ec4.34bf8da8@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:10 EST
To: katswig@deltanet.com, hikryrdg@evansville.net
Cc: patfred@snowcrest.net, step@fsr.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:42:26 EST, katswig@deltanet.com writes:
<<
Yes, there have been many examples at rides I have atteended personally,
and the "problem" was "resolved" by falsifying the official results.
I, personally, am of the opinion that this is a problem that should not be
ignored (as I am of the opinion that rules, if they are to be rules,
should not be selectively ignored--rules, if they are rules should be
enforced strictly or stricken from the books, in fact, as Abraham Lincoln
once said, "The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it
strictly.")
kat
Orange County, Calif. >>
Ahhh, but rules are made to be broken!!!! I have yet to find a rule where an
exception could not be found. I, too, have been to rides where rules were
bent and reports fudged....ALL, I might add, in the best interest and WITH the
approval of fellow riders...I think that says something about our rules....
Teddy
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From: Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6a432bbe.34bf8e5c@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:44:10 EST
To: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time & the weather
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:41:33 EST, truman.prevatt@netsrq.com writes:
> >
> >In my opinion, no, it means the ride should have been canceled due to
> extreme
> >weather conditions.
>
> Clearly a western rider. While what Joe refered to was extreme - even for
> the Southeast, if we cancelled rides here because of high heat/humidity our
> riding season would be short indeed.
Truman,
If you're in the Southeast, the Sahara Desert, or Alaska, if it takes almost
15 hours to get the "winner" over the finish line, in my opinion the weather
conditions are extreme.
Linda
San Francisco
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <967cc8c4.34bf8da2@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:04 EST
To: 71234.3361@compuserve.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: completion time
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:39:28 EST, 71234.3361@compuserve.com writes:
<<
If this rule is made more complex trying to cover all possible scenarios
the future will hold "stewards" from AERC being necessary at each ride,
electonic synchronized timing gear etc. for every ride .
>>
Yes, use the KISS theory...
By making the time RIDING time instead of TOTAL time, life would NOT be made
more complicated than it already is....
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2d15a910.34bf8da0@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:41:02 EST
To: ChacoL@aol.com, jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time Rule
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:29:01 EST, ChacoL@aol.com writes:
<<
> In the 50, the *First Place* time was 13 hours, 43 minutes, and 40
> seconds including holds (I looked it up). Under our current rule,
> *nobody* would have completed the 50. Even with the 15 hour limit we
> only had about a 50% completion rate in the 50.
>
> Does this mean those riders were wimps? That their horses weren't
> good enough for endurance?
In my opinion, no, it means the ride should have been canceled due to extreme
weather conditions.
Linda
San Francisco
>>
I have only been to ONE ride that was cancelled before the start and ONE that
was cancelled during the ride...the conditiions were life-threatening in BOTH
instances.
Teddy
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'zebella@idt.net'" <zebella@idt.net>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Horse-shop
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:59:46 -0800
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Hopefully Monday! We're still working out a few bugs, but are very
close.
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: Zebella [SMTP:zebella@idt.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 1998 8:11 PM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Horse-shop
Anyone know when horse-shop will be up and running again? I'm just
dying to buy something!
t
idecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Horse-shop
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a290c143.34bf8d9d@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:40:59 EST
To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:09:33 EST, suendavid@worldnet.att.net writes:
<< Continuing the picket line thread, what if there are no trees available
in the area to attach one end of the picket line to---what then? Is
there some alternative that you can bring with you and is still safe?
Have to admit, I like the idea, just not sure of the details...
Susan Garlinghouse
>>
If more than one trailer is around, you can picket between two trailers. You
can even picket from truck to trailer...harder on you and your truck,
though... I have even picketed to a big boulder!!! My, aren't we inventive!!!
Teddy
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From: Trailrite <Trailrite@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8aa21f4c.34bf90c3@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:54:24 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re:Bits to Hackamores
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There is a wonderful hackamore type that is perfect for the endurance or trail
rider. It's called the Arabian S bit. Which is silly, it has no Bit! You
can get this from Sportack. At our ranch we trail train a lot of X Arabian
race horses. This is what we put them in after 14 to 30 days of training. It
has a very short shank so the horse can eat and drink without anything getting
in the way. I personally use this hackamore on my own horse and my husbands.
We have about 21 endurance horses/riders at our ranch and I would say about
1/2 of them are using this hackamore with no problems. If you need to use
anything to keep the head down this hackamore is still great for that. I
would say we've been using this hackamore for about 7 years now. Hope this
helps out.
Tammy & Katie Bar The Door
Trail-Rite Ranch
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
From: "Linnea Skoglund" <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:02:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: assisting downed riders
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Glenda,
This perception that endurance riders will run you over rather than
assist you is pervasive. There was an article just this year in one
of my sister's Morgan newsletters about that. And here I am trying
to convince her that endurance people are wonderful and so much more
friendly and helpful than other equine sports. Someone decided to
try endurance after having done ctr. Apparently there was a problem
on the trail and they were just passed by by several riders. Very
unfortunate. Maybe we need to punish these people just as we do
drivers. Get the "license" number off that horse!
Linnea & Pesadilla
****************************************************
Linnea G. Skoglund, Ph.D.
Dept. Bioagricultural Sciences and Pest Management
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
970.491.6950
970.491.3862 (fax)
skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu
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From: "Linnea Skoglund" <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:03:40 +0000
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Subject: Completion times
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I am a newbie so please be patient. I have really enjoyed this
thread on time limits and completions. I entered two LDs last year.
The first was pretty much flat and open. The second was in the
mountains and far more demanding for my little paso. Now the ride
manager (different for each ride) was concerned about us rookies in
the mountains so had longer hold times. I presumed the purpose of
the longer holds was to make sure our horses were rested and not
moving too fast. But that meant we had less actual ride time and had
to move at a faster pace to complete in time (an important factor
for me as I intend to make a career of winning tail ender awards).
That seemed counter productive to me. I believe the same could have
been said of the 50s. Can someone explain the logic of this to me?
Yes, I know some rides are more difficult than others (thank goodness
they aren't all equal!). But what is the point to slowing riders
down, ie. more hold time, and at the same time make them ride harder?
I must be missing something here. Help me to see the light here
guys. :-}
Linnea & Pesadilla
(BTW, no criticism implied here, Brad and other RMs)
****************************************************
Linnea G. Skoglund, Ph.D.
Dept. Bioagricultural Sciences and Pest Management
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
970.491.6950
970.491.3862 (fax)
skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4ab6ffb8.34bf9571@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:14:23 EST
To: Bierstedt@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training..tap,tap,tap
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In a message dated 98-01-16 07:40:31 EST, you write:
<<
I would very much like to hear more about how to build trust. >>
Here's one to start - ALWAYS be the FIRST to cross that NASTY, black hole
called water. Next time ask your horse to go first!
s
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:27:51 -0800
From: "Donna O'Gara" <dlogara@concentric.net>
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Subject: picket lines
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A picture's worth a thousand words. I've put a sketch of the type of
picket line I've used at http://www.correlationsystems.com/picket/
--
Donna O'Gara < dlogara@concentric.net >
Donna's Mutual Linking Association
One link page on your site
Hundreds of links to you. Free.
http://www.correlationsystems.com/links/
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 09:48:22 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: 5 Speed Transmissions
Teddy wrote:
> My Dodge Diesel owner manual said NOTHING about not towing in overdrive.
> Hence I did, and low and behold...new rear end at 68,000 and new transmission
> at 102,000.
Is this the same truck you pulled a 13,000 pound gooseneck
trailer with? The 1997 one ton dually Dodge 4x4 is rated
right at 13,700 pounds towing capacity. Are you sure your
trailer was only 13,000? Did you put your loaded trailer
on a scale?
My Grandfather had his own car repair business. He always
said "Leave a little." As in, don't max out the capacity
of your vehicle. Don't floor it. Don't run at top speed.
Take care of it and your vehicle will run for you.
I think the Freightliner is a good solution for you, Teddy.
However, since I'd need to drive it to work it might be a
bit difficult to park... except maybe in San Francisco where
I could just double park and no one would notice... :)
Of course there's always the T-Rex... and I quote "Pack?
Why not just hook up the whole House and take it with you!"
... a Dodge 6x6 with a tow capacity of 26,000. 6x6 you say?
What's that? What's the difference between a T-Rex and a dually?
Just a little money... It's really pretty cool, but alas,
probably just a prototype. Great pictures though:
http://www.bilweb.se/bilweb_nya/n06DodSi.htm
Hell... I'm only planing on hauling at 1/2 to 3/4 capacity
anyways. Shh... now, don't spread this around, but the
1998 Dodge Diesel has a new 6 Speed Allison Tranny...
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
"Time to put you on a diet, boy!"
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:29:18 -0500
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I'm not sure about the stretching part but I used a cheap roping lariat
that I purchased at an auction many years ago.
Being stiff it was easy to attach to a tree, even if I had to throw it
up to get it high. Also I could pull it very tight.
I have used an electric corral but I will go back to the picket line
setup, I think it is safer.
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ea282bba.34bfbb24@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:55:14 EST
To: SandyDSA@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: For vets, males, and stallion owners
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In a message dated 98-01-16 12:15:07 EST, SandyDSA writes:
<<
<< Has anyone ever tried a "jock strap" on an endurance horse? >>
Only to engage in gender control.
s >>
Really!!! ACTUALLY, THIS IS no JOKE...THE HARNESS RACING people use them on
their stallions when they race...
Teddy
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Completion times
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:52:44 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34bfc79f.4279313@mail.mti.net>
References: <199801161701.KAA37400@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <199801161701.KAA37400@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:03:40 +0000, "Linnea Skoglund"
<skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu> wrote:
>I am a newbie so please be patient. I have really enjoyed this
>thread on time limits and completions. I entered two LDs last year.
>The first was pretty much flat and open. The second was in the
>mountains and far more demanding for my little paso. Now the ride
>manager (different for each ride) was concerned about us rookies in
>the mountains so had longer hold times. I presumed the purpose of
>the longer holds was to make sure our horses were rested and not
>moving too fast. But that meant we had less actual ride time and had
>to move at a faster pace to complete in time (an important factor
>for me as I intend to make a career of winning tail ender awards).
>That seemed counter productive to me. I believe the same could have
>been said of the 50s. Can someone explain the logic of this to me?
>Yes, I know some rides are more difficult than others (thank goodness
>they aren't all equal!). But what is the point to slowing riders
>down, ie. more hold time, and at the same time make them ride harder?
>I must be missing something here. Help me to see the light here
>guys. :-}
That is actually the intent. The Board felt that to not include the
hold times would allow an unscrupulous ride manager to get around the
rule by having, say, three four-hour vet checks. By including the
hold times within the limit, any attempt to use abnormally long hold
times is self-defeating.
Unfortunately, as you noted, that limits the ride managers (and head
vets) ability to set hold times in the best interest of the horses.
Another way a "simple" rule has complex consequences.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b687d88d.34bfcbbb@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:06:01 EST
To: sumralls@gateway.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Re: bit to hackamore
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FYI: There is an "english" hackamore that has a flat leather nose piece,
shorter shanks and a larger/flat cheekpiece area that doesn't "cut in" as Tom
mentioned some of the "western" ones can. (I'm using the e/w terms loosely-no
good or bad reference intended...)! Cindy
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References: <199801161701.KAA37400@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
<199801161701.KAA37400@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:16:11 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: Completion times
Including hold times in the total time allowed makes sense.
Afterall, the horse is on the trail from start to finish
irregarless of whether or not it's being held in a vet
check. If a horse takes 7 hours and 15 minutes to
complete 50 miles and 1 hour and 45 minutes of that were
in vetcheck holds then it took the horse 7 hours and
15 minutes to travel 50 miles. The horse doesn't stop
being a horse in vet checks.
I used to think hold times should not be included in
total time, but I've changed my mind. I think they
should continue to be included in the total time
allowed. And I think that 6, 12, and 24 hours are
good values for 25, 50, and 100 miles respectively.
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer.
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:46:25 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
Subject: automatic vs standard transmissions for hauling
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Paula - I'm not an expert by any means but here's my 2 cts. worth:
When I bought my first truck/trailer I bought automatic because all the
articles I read said to even though I've always driven a stick shift car.
I live in coastal central California where we are amuck in gluey mud at the
moment. Today I hauled my horse on a 2 miles dirt driveway to my trainer's
and blessed my 4 wheel drive and cursed my automatic the whole way. Going
in (up) wasn't too bad but coming out (down) was nastier because, even in
2nd gear, the blankety-blank automatic kept accelerating the truck which
means that I had to keep the brakes on and risk locking and sliding. I've
also had a scary experience or two just driving (fortunately not while
hauling!) in city and stop-and-go freeway traffic when I needed to stop
quickly and the constant fuel supply kept the engine going forward against
the brakes. I guess I just like the increased control you get with stick.
It is more work and some people aren't good shifters.
Cheers, Laney
>X-From_: ridecamp@endurance.net Thu Jan 15 00:21:46 1998
>Resent-From: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Resent-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 07:19:09 -0800 (PST)
>From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US>
>To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: automatic vs standard transmissions for hauling
>Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:40:27 -0500
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>Resent-Message-ID: <"YOitW1.0.qn1.FSDlq"@starfish>
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>X-Loop: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Resent-Sender: ridecamp-request@endurance.net
>
>VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
>I'm looking for opinions (and probably will get a few) regarding pros and
>cons of automatic transmissions vs standard when hauling a horse trailer.
>We have a 3 horse/slant load/extra long gooseneck trailer (all aluminum).
>We're "discussing" our next truck and have somewhat opposing opinions, so
>tell us yours!
>Paula
>
>
>
c vs standard transmissions for hauling
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Paula - I'm not an expert by any means but here's my 2 cts. worth:
When I bought my first truck/trailer I bought automatic because all the
articles I read said to even though I've always driven a stick shift car.
I live in coastal central California where we are amuck in gluey mud at the
moment. Today I hau5829 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003163 06457755304 0013133 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.mti.net (mail.mti.net [208.136.137.7]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA07240 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:10:07 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Completion times
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:39:55 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34ced315.7213792@mail.mti.net>
References: <199801161701.KAA37400@lamar.ColoState.EDU> <199801161701.KAA37400@lamar.ColoState.EDU> <v03007807b0e57bbed611@[204.162.114.203]>
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:16:11 -0800, "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
wrote:
>I used to think hold times should not be included in
>total time, but I've changed my mind. I think they
>should continue to be included in the total time
>allowed. And I think that 6, 12, and 24 hours are
>good values for 25, 50, and 100 miles respectively.
Yes, I think most of us agree that under normal conditions 5MPH is
perfectly reasonable to expect for a horse to earn a completion, even
over a tough trail. And one hour of hold time in a 25 or two hours in
a 50 is plenty. Under *normal* conditions.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <303b4e70.34bfdb1a@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:11:36 EST
To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: For vets, males, and stallion owners
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Teddy and all--
I would be very leery of the "jock strap" apparatus that the harness racers
use in our sport--we humans know all too well how uncomfortable and irritating
something can become that seems just fine in norma times when we bounce down
the trail wearing it for several areas. I think we might be subjecting these
boys to some real punishment here... I know I have had rather personal parts
of my anatomy raw and bleeding from wearing "normal" clothes on endurance
rides...
As I said in my original reply on this issue, I doubt that the firm, enlarged
testicles in this case were caused by physical irritation, but rather by a
transient infectious problem or some such...
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores
In-Reply-To: <8aa21f4c.34bf90c3@aol.com> from Trailrite at "Jan 16, 98 11:54:24 am"
To: Trailrite@aol.com (Trailrite)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:28:33 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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> At our ranch we trail train a lot of X Arabian
> race horses. This is what we put them in after 14 to 30 days of training. It
> has a very short shank so the horse can eat and drink without anything getting
> in the way.
As I mentioned to Paula when she first asked about this,
I decided to try my young very green mare in an english
hackamore the other weekend. Previous to this, I'd only
ever ridden her in a rope halter, which she was fine in -
understanding my "go this way, go that way" instructions
with the reins.
But in the hackamore - hmmm - it was like she was drunk.
It seems that the "go this way" pull translated to her as:
"tilt your head in the opposite direction and ignore all
instructions". She couldn't figure it out at all.
I eventually clipped the reins to the tops of the shanks,
more like a sidepull (or, at least, what how I presume a
sidepull works - I've never seen one), and then she responded
normally.
I can only assume that the pressure created by the shanks
was confusing to her in some way. Interestingly, she was also
less tuned to "Ho" pressure in the hackamore. So I think
I'm probably going to abandon the idea (no sense in training
her in something that makes no sense to her), and maybe
just continue teaching her in a "riding rope halter" (like
what Pat Frederick sells).
So here's a thought. With all the talk of excitable endurance
horses raring to go at the start, how likely is it, that, if
you train your green horse right from the very beginning that
un-asked-for speed is totally unacceptable and should not
even be considered (can this be done?), that riding said
horse in a rope halter will work well?
Just a thought.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: picket lines
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:38:25 -0800 (PST)
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With all this talk about picket lines being the
safest way to go, I'm sorry to have to come up
with a bad picket line story (that's the trouble
with this sport - for every "this is a safe thing
to do" story, there'll be 20 people who's cousin's
friend's auntie got killed doing it....)
The guy who runs the barn where I board regularly
takes him horses on hunting trips every year. They
ride out into the middle of nowhere in the woods,
fix up a picket line, and then go off an do their
hunting thing.
This year, he left his steady horse Lala tied up like
this. As I understand it, Lala is a sensible horse,
is used to being on a picket line and not prone to
panicking... well, Lala somehow managed to truss himself
up like a chicken and was in a very bad state, with many
rope cuts, by the time they returned.
I have no idea how this happened - whether the picket line
was incorrectly set up, the horse was allowed too close
to the tree (I think a tree was involved somewhere in
there), whatever. I imagine the guy has been doing this
for years and years and this is the first time he'd had
problems.
So, with this in mind - be careful what you do, use your
imagination extra-hard to think up creative ways your
horse will hurt himself (afterall, you know that he will
spend that quiet time, not munching innocently on hay,
but scheming to himself), and keep an eye on them.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Need Transient Horse Housing near Witchita, KS
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:01:54 -0700
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Is there anybody out there in endurance-hyperspace who could give me a lead
on a place to put a horse up for a couple of nights (1 week max) near
Witchita? I am in the uncomfortable position of needing to repossess a
coming three year old gelding after a year of non payment, and I need a
place for him to go when the sheriff picks him up, so that he can have a
vet check, coggins and wait for transportation home. I had to get a KS
attorney to help with the court paperwork, but he has no ideas where we
could keep "Burnie" once we've got him! I guess I should be grateful that
this is the first time this has ever happened to me in 12 years of the
breeding business! Any suggestions would be gratefully appreciated!
Thanks, Mary Burgess
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2a3f5a47.34bff19d@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:47:38 EST
To: skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu
Cc: RIDECAMP@ENDURANCE.NET
Subject: Completion times - HEAR THIS EVERYBODY!!!!!
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In a message dated 98-01-16 15:38:32 EST, you write:
<< I presumed the purpose of
the longer holds was to make sure our horses were rested and not
moving too fast. But that meant we had less actual ride time and had
to move at a faster pace to complete in time (an important factor
for me as I intend to make a career of winning tail ender awards).
That seemed counter productive to me. I believe the same could have
been said of the 50s. Can someone explain the logic of this to me?
Yes, I know some rides are more difficult than others (thank goodness
they aren't all equal!). But what is the point to slowing riders
down, ie. more hold time, and at the same time make them ride harder?
I must be missing something here. Help me to see the light here
guys. :-} >>
Just MY point!!!!! That's why I would prefer to see RIDING time instead of
TOTAL time....
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fa21fcc6.34bff1a3@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:47:45 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Jock straps for stallions
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In a message dated 98-01-16 17:11:36 EST, CMKSAGEHIL writes:
<<
I would be very leery of the "jock strap" apparatus that the harness racers
use in our sport--we humans know all too well how uncomfortable and irritating
something can become that seems just fine in norma times when we bounce down
the trail wearing it for several areas. I think we might be subjecting these
boys to some real punishment here... I know I have had rather personal parts
of my anatomy raw and bleeding from wearing "normal" clothes on endurance
rides...
>>
Just curious...I know the miles make the difference...just wondered if anybody
ever tried it....
Teddy
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Message-ID: <34BFF31F.31D5@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:54:07 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
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Subject: Re: Picket Lines
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This might be a silly question but I'm going to ask it regardless! And
I'm on digest (a very slow one these days, I might add) so please cc:
me.
If you unhitch your truck and tie one end to the trailer, one end to the
truck, won't the rope be too low to the ground? Where on the truck can
you tie it that it would be high enough?
In Hawaii, I saw so many animals tied from a spoke in the ground with a
neck lead. To me, this was pretty scary but it worked for them.
Thanks!
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab..."I don't mind being tied as long as those
little arabs move over so I can lay down....hey, what cha look'in at
bub?")
Pt.Reyes, CA
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To: laneyh@mbay.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: automatic vs standard transmissions for hauling
Message-ID: <19980117.065756.8398.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:58:53 EST
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:46:25 -0800 Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
writes:
>Paula - I'm not an expert by any means but here's my 2 cts. worth:
>When I bought my first truck/trailer I bought automatic because all
>the
>articles I read said to even though I've always driven a stick shift
>car.
>I live in coastal central California where we are amuck in gluey mud
>at the
>moment. Today I hauled my horse on a 2 miles dirt driveway to my
>trainer's
>and blessed my 4 wheel drive and cursed my automatic the whole way.
>Going
>in (up) wasn't too bad but coming out (down) was nastier because, even
>in
>2nd gear, the blankety-blank automatic kept accelerating the truck
>which
>means that I had to keep the brakes on and risk locking and sliding.
What kind of truck is that? I've got a Dodge now that does that, I just
shift up into nuetral. I've hauled with Chevy Silverado automatics (a 79
and a 90) since 79 and LOVE them. I would hate to get caught in traffic
shifting a stick shift. I can shift fine, and don't mind a car, but I
hate hauling with a streight shift truck.
This Dodge is just to get me through until my dad lets me buy his present
Silverado, which does not pull when in drive, until you press the gas.
By the way, my Dodge 4x4 went to the shop last week, they said my choke
was staying on and put something in there that cost me some bucks, it
will still do 15mph with my foot off the accelerator.
Do you only haul horses? Many a stack of hay has been dumped in the
field when the streight shift decided to jump. Besides that, in the
hayfield is when we like to let the 11 year olds learn to drive down here
in the South.
My Silverado pulled a two horse for 19 years with never a breakdown or
transmission related problem. Granted, that's no big rig, but then it
was a standard 1 ton with a couple of heavy duty things thrown in.
Angie McGhee
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Lucy C Trumbull" <elsie@calweb.com>,
"Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:00:00 -0800
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Lucy,
PLEASE DO NOT use my rope halter by itself on the first endurance ride your
horse does. You should try it along with your usual gear so you can be sure
that you can control your horse. I always advise using two sets of reins
until you know for sure that your horse will respond to the rope ride
halter. A lot of riders, including me, love riding in them, but please use
caution. I have two horses that can start a ride in my Ride Halter, and one
that needs a double twisted wire snaffle & a running martingale in order for
me to start a race safely. He put me in the hospital twice before I learned
that he turns into a demon at the start of a ride. Just because a horse
behaves well on a normal conditioning ride with the rope ride halter, does
not mean that he will behave the same in a 50 mile race. There is a lot of
electricity in the air before the start & I would advise you to PLEASE USE
CAUTION. You might also go into the KBR Training page, that is reached
from my Web Site to learn about the proper use of both the rope halter & the
side pull halter. For those of you who are interested, there are
instructions for making your own rope halter. Check it out.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
To: Trailrite <Trailrite@aol.com>
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 2:30 PM
Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores
>> At our ranch we trail train a lot of X Arabian
>> race horses. This is what we put them in after 14 to 30 days of
training. It
>> has a very short shank so the horse can eat and drink without anything
getting
>> in the way.
>
>As I mentioned to Paula when she first asked about this,
>I decided to try my young very green mare in an english
>hackamore the other weekend. Previous to this, I'd only
>ever ridden her in a rope halter, which she was fine in -
>understanding my "go this way, go that way" instructions
>with the reins.
>
>But in the hackamore - hmmm - it was like she was drunk.
>It seems that the "go this way" pull translated to her as:
>"tilt your head in the opposite direction and ignore all
>instructions". She couldn't figure it out at all.
>
>I eventually clipped the reins to the tops of the shanks,
>more like a sidepull (or, at least, what how I presume a
>sidepull works - I've never seen one), and then she responded
>normally.
>
>I can only assume that the pressure created by the shanks
>was confusing to her in some way. Interestingly, she was also
>less tuned to "Ho" pressure in the hackamore. So I think
>I'm probably going to abandon the idea (no sense in training
>her in something that makes no sense to her), and maybe
>just continue teaching her in a "riding rope halter" (like
>what Pat Frederick sells).
>
>So here's a thought. With all the talk of excitable endurance
>horses raring to go at the start, how likely is it, that, if
>you train your green horse right from the very beginning that
>un-asked-for speed is totally unacceptable and should not
>even be considered (can this be done?), that riding said
>horse in a rope halter will work well?
>
>Just a thought.
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
>Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
>
>http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
>http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:03:50 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: Linnea Skoglund <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
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Rediculous !!!!Who would live a buddy or compatriot on the field of
battlel.... I believe in mankind more than that, especially after being
in the service of the Korean war.
Carl
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:46:09 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801170046.QAA17396@fsr.com>
Subject: Horse Transportation
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Leonore
Email: leonore@mail.wsu.edu
I am moving from Washington State to Louisiana this spring and will be bringing my horse. My options are to pay to have someone transport her or to do it myself. The trailer is not the best but could easily make the trip. My mare does not have any health problems and is pretty easy going. Any advice on who to use to haul her and/or advice on the best way to haul a horse long distance.
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 18:49:47 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
cc: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores (reply)
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>>PLEASE DO NOT use my rope halter by itself on the first endurance ride your
horse does. You should try it along with your usual gear so you can be sure
that you can control your horse. I always advise using two sets of reins <<
Lucy, I gotta agree with her on that. I don't know anything about her
rope halters, but I do know that Lakota is the most laid-back, easy-going,
SLOW starting, non-competitive Ay-rab you've ever seen in your life, and
he took off like a bat out of hell at Long Leaf, bucking down the trail,
totally shocked my socks off. Fortunately, thanks to Cheryl Newbanks'
earlier warning, I had switched his usual loose-ring snaffle for his curb
bit (same mouthpiece for comfort, different action), or else I would have
pulled on his mouth till the blood vessels in his lips burst. Seriously.
At the start of a ride, there's a kind of electricity in the air, and all
the horses feel it and catch the fever -- kinda like a bunch of teenagers
at the prom. :)
Glenda & Lakota (bucking? me? never!)
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:01:33 -0800
From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Pat Fredrickson wrote:
> PLEASE DO NOT use my rope halter by itself on the first endurance ride your
> horse does. You should try it along with your usual gear so you can be sure
> that you can control your horse. I always advise using two sets of reins
> until you know for sure that your horse will respond to the rope ride
> halter.
No Pat! Don't worry - I wouldn't even *consider* the idea of just
hopping onto the horse in a rope halter and expecting her to
behave herself.
I'm mostly curious about different training methods. At the moment,
we don't have "usual gear" to fall back to. Her "usual gear" *is*
a rope halter.
But I have a clean slate with this horse, and don't want to
automatically just follow standard practises because "that's
just the way it's done".
(like something I heard recently on TV: "we start our horses in
bosals, by the time they're four we're riding them in a snaffle,
and then they graduate to a curb..." ...Why??)
If I was thinking about dressage, then that would be a different
thing. I don't necessarily need to teach her some of the subtleties
that would necessitate using a bit (although maybe one day... ,g>).
In this case, I want to train my mare to have good manners,
but also be a good endurance horse.
I suspect that sometimes there is a tendency for people just to
let their horses go down the trail at an "active pace" - afterall,
you want the horse to "move out" down the trail with little fuss.
But I wonder how many of them are doing this because they don't
have much choice in the matter? Because it's easier to "let them
go" than be in charge of what speed the horse travels at.
> A lot of riders, including me, love riding in them, but please use
> caution.
Always. I'm the wimpiest person alive when it comes to caution.
That's why I've had this horse since April, but only just started
riding her, and haven't ever ridden her outside the confines of an
arena. She's not ready and I'm not ready.
When we *are* ready, we'll be out there on the trails, hand-walking
in full tack, to gauge how she's going to react. Then, once we can
doing some trail riding, we'll be at rides as observers. I don't
believe in stuffing her into something without her being mentally
prepared for it (of course, all this would help if I actually
had a trailer to take her out for "jaunts" in... <grin>)
And always keeping in mind, as Linda writes:
> "Unasked for speed is unacceptable" gets lost in "But the herd went
> thata way!"--
**************************************************************
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
**************************************************************
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:58:44 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801170058.QAA19241@fsr.com>
Subject: RE: Picket lines
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Becke Grams
Email: BeckeG@aol.com
I live in Michigan and we can't always put up fences. The DNR does not allow trees inside of fences and there are a lot of trees in Michigan. We have experimented with different types of pickets. The best we have found is to use a truck tie-down in conjunction with the rope. The tie-down is a flat nylon strap and therefor won't dammage the trees. It has s-hooks on each end that, once you put a loop in the end of your rope, you can attach it to the rope. I'm 5' tall and even I can ratched this tie-down snugly into place.
The only problem I've found with picketing is when it is raining or very damp. Don't use cotton rope either for the picket or for the horse tie. The cotton will lengthen with a lot of rain. You horse could become entangled if he lays down. Often enough I've been brought straight out of bed when a horse starts thrashing on the picket line. The ropes can cause rope burns and that can ruin your ride before you start. You do get to see what people wear to bed, however, when this happens!
The tie-down also acts as a stopper for you horse so he doesn't get too close to trees. Teddy has some hardware that if you put the rope throught twice will not move and you can snap the rope too. I've also seen 2 trailer ties used. These have quick release snaps and for the afore mentioned problem is a real life saver.
We sometimes put 2 trailers side by side and throw a couple of lines over to picket horses.
These are just some ideas that we have tried. Hope this helps.
Becke, PJ & the gang from MI
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:09:01 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801170109.RAA20058@fsr.com>
Subject: shoeing advise
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From: g utech
Email: userzeus1@aol.com
I am new to the sport of endurance riding and competitive trail. Living here in Florida, with soft sand throughout most of the state, the majority of folks do no shod their horses. We are about to enter training and need suggestions, locations of additional information, and all around knowledge to speak intelligently with the farrier about shoes. Can you help?
thanks Greg& Dorothy
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:15:07 -0800
From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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To: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
CC: Endurance list <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores (reply)
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I wrote:
> I suspect that sometimes there is a tendency for people just to
> let their horses go down the trail at an "active pace" - afterall,
> you want the horse to "move out" down the trail with little fuss.
> But I wonder how many of them are doing this because they don't
> have much choice in the matter? Because it's easier to "let them
> go" than be in charge of what speed the horse travels at.
and Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
>
>...but I do know that Lakota is the most laid-back, easy-going,
> SLOW starting, non-competitive Ay-rab you've ever seen in your life, and
> he took off like a bat out of hell at Long Leaf, bucking down the trail,
> totally shocked my socks off. Fortunately, thanks to Cheryl Newbanks'
> earlier warning, I had switched his usual loose-ring snaffle for his curb
> bit (same mouthpiece for comfort, different action), or else I would have
> pulled on his mouth till the blood vessels in his lips burst. Seriously.
There is that too <grin>.
How d'you train your horse not zoom, when he never does normally...
*until* that first endurance ride...?
--
**************************************************************
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
**************************************************************
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:17:52 -0600
To: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee), truman.prevatt@netsrq.com
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: AERC Completion Time & the weather
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <19980116.053234.3358.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Sounds like Kansas rides - 95 degrees by 7 a.m. and 80 percent humidity.
it's tough.
chris paus & star
At 05:34 PM 1/15/98 EST, Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>Hey Truman, I remember my first trip out west. We got to the Grand
>Canyon and they said it was 109 degrees. I thought, they're insane, it's
>85 at the most! One day it was 113, and it really wasn't any worse than
>our usual 94. Since then, I have witheld pity when I saw their heat
>waves on the weather map.
>
>Angie McGhee, "Who almost FROZE when she stepped out of a pool on a day
>out west with no humidity!
>
>
>On Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:19:02 -0500 truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman
>>Clearly a western rider. While what Joe refered to was extreme - even
>>for
>>the Southeast, if we cancelled rides here because of high
>>heat/humidity our
>>riding season would be short indeed. I rmember the Castle Rock ride
>>of a
>>few years ago and had to smile at the description of the conditions.
>>Those
>>conditions describe the conditions of a lot of the Southeast rides.
>>Eighty
>>degrees and 80% humidity can be fairly normal for the East, in
>>particularly
>>the Southeast.
>>
>>In FL the lowest humidity I have seen reported by the weather bureau
>>is 45%.
>>
>>Truman
>>
>>
>>
>>Truman Prevatt
>>Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
>>Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
>>The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
>>Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
>>
>>Sarasota, FL
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:19:44 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
cc: Endurance list <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores (reply)
In-Reply-To: <34C0061B.2442@calweb.com>
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> How d'you train your horse not zoom, when he never does normally...
> *until* that first endurance ride...?
Good question! One I don't really know the answer to, and would love to
hear from others.
I am currently operating under the assumption that part of the excitement
for Lakota was simply the excitement of having other horses to ride with
-- a rather rare occurrence for us. So, with that in mind, I have jumped
at every opportunity to trailer him to other barns locally, to ride with
other horses, to get him more accustomed to this "ho-hum" activity and
hopefully take some of the edge off for him. I must say, last weekend
when we did this, he was an absolute angel, even at the canter, didn't
pull a bit, just generally behaved exactly the way I've always dreamed. :)
And I had him in the snaffle, too, not the curb. Of course, whether this
was a true improvement or merely a fluke remains to be seen ... <bg>
Glenda & Lakota
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:52:01 -0800
To: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
From: Connie DeJong <cdejong@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Re: More on picket lines?
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Use a cowboy hard rope, that's what all the packers do. It's best to use
the correct knots for this, you can find a book on horse packing in most western tack stores that will describes the type of knots best suited for picket lines.
Might also be at the library, we keep ours in the camper so I don't have the title handy.
Connie
>I also like using a picket line. Most lines/ropes I've tried have a tendency
>to stretch over a couple days. Has anyone found one that doesn't stretch?
>Cindy
Connie DeJong 408 526-6117
IOS Technologies Quality
Cisco Systems / 170 W Tasman Dr. / San Jose / CA 95134-1706
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:28:39 -0600
To: Lynette Helgeson <helgeson@lansford.ndak.net>,
KIMBERLY PRICE <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Pony prices and training..tap,tap,tap
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34BEBC8E.FA47FD89@lansford.ndak.net>
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This is precisely why instead of using the "tapping" method to get Star
past scarey stuff, I used the "comfort zone" theory. I let HIM decide when
he was willing to go forward adn face the monster. He could make the
decision from teh point at which he felt comfortable.
It has worked every time. The first time we crossed a creek, it took 20
minutes. I let him have his comfort zone and decide when to cross. The next
time it happend muc sooner. Now he is a creek crossing champ. Same with
bridges, big round hay bales covered in white plastic, and horse eating
monsters.
chris paus & star
At 07:49 PM 1/15/98 -0600, Lynette Helgeson wrote:
>
>
>KIMBERLY PRICE wrote:
>
>> You wrote:
>> I borrowed from John Lyons' trailer loadingmethods to get him to go by
>> cows. When he stops, I tap him gently with thedressage whip--tap, tap,
>> tap--until he moves just one foot. Then I stop. Thentap, tap, tap
>> again, until he takes another step. As long as he takes a step
>> forward, he gets rewarded by having the tapping stop. Seems to work.
>>
>> The worst he does is a 180 degree spin in a millisecond. Once, up in
>> the mountains, he got me off when he saw some deer. Another time, I was
>> hangingoff the edge and simply willed myself back into the saddle.
>
>I would guess that the reason he is doing the 180 degree spin is tokeep you
>from tap, tap, tapping. That is the problem with John Lyons
>and Pat Paretti, etc. methods. They work wonderfully on stock horses
>but not always on Arabians.
>
>I have trained many different breeds of horses and it took me awhile
>to realize that when you train an Arabian you are working with a
>totally different animal. And this is a prime example of that. The
>very best way to train an Arabian to not be spooky is for you to
>gain his trust. If he trusts that you will not let any horse eating
>monsters get him and he will go anywhere for you.
>In fact the Arabian is such a loyal horse that if he trust you he will
>go where even the calmest horse will fear to tread.
>
>For example, your Arabian is coming up to something that scares
>him, his instinct tells him to run. You hold him to face it and start
>tapping him, he is trained to move away from pressure so he moves
>forward, still scared but feeling trapped, like he has no choice. He is
>not learning to trust you, you are forcing him towards it, so he is
>mistrusting you. You are forcing him into a situation that he does
>not like. So next time instead of giving you a chance to tap him
>towards something that scares him he is just going to wheel and run.
>Now stock horses are not always that quick thinking and they will
>not always look for another way out of something, but an Arabian
>always will look for another way. When training an Arabian you always have
>to be
>out thinking the horse. If something is not working, don't keep
>doing it because it worked for someone else. Put yourself in your
>horse's place and see it through his eyes.
>
>If anyone is interested in more details on the ways that I use to gain
>an Arabians trust. E-mail me.
>
>Lynette Helgeson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Attachment Converted: "c:\intstart\attach\vcard.vcf"
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:41:14 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: bkwranch@cmn.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: "forms" of beet pulp
References: <199801160229.TAA19329@yampa.cmn.net>
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Wolgram's wrote:
>
> I live in NW Colorado and cannot find a source for beet pulp other than
> what the feed store owner is calling "beet pulp pellets." Are these OK to
> soak and feed the same as the regular beet pulp? Do they absorb as much
> water? Are the nutrients, fiber, etc. content the same? If pellets are
> not recommended, does someone know where I can get the shredded, dried beet
> pulp?
> Thanks....Betty from Craig
Hi Betty,
The pellets are just fine. Nutritionally, just the same as the loose,
shredded form. It will take a little longer for the pellets to fully
soak up maximum water as the total surface area is less in a pellet than
in the smaller shreds. Just allow plenty of time for them to soak, and
allow 2 parts water to 1 part beet pulp by volume.
Good luck!
Susan Garlinghouse
bkwranch@cmn.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: "forms" of beet pulp
References: <199801160229.TAA19329@yampa.cmn.net>
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Wolgram's wrote:
>
> I live in NW Colorado and cannot find a source for beet pulp other than
> what the feed store owner is calling "beet pulp pellets." Are5851 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002604 06460006403 0013104 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.34]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23963 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:44:12 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 17:42:59 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
References: <34BE752E.3D09@worldnet.att.net> <34BE76CE.DEC610C6@geocities.com>
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Deanne Del Vecchio wrote:
>
> > what if there are no trees available in the area to attach one end of
> > the picket line to---what then? Susan Garlinghouse
>
> Before I made my PVC corral, I used to unhitch the truck and trailer and
> string the picket line between the the two.--
Ok, next silly question---exactly what on the truck did you tie to? I'm
not sure I have anything sturdy enough except for the hitch itself, and
that seems too low to the ground...?
Thanks!
Susan
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:51:03 -0600
To: David Sonnenberg <furface@liii.com>,
"Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
Cc: ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov, ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980116103225.24802A-100000@oak.liii.com>
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My good riding friend and training buddy bought a WONDERFUL retired polo
pony, a TB mare, 8 years old, for $1,500. She is a very nice horse.
Maybe they are less expensive in Kansas City,
chris paus &star
At 10:34 AM 1/16/98 -0500, David Sonnenberg wrote:
>Last year, I was looking for a new horse for barrel racing. I found an ad
>for polo ponies andwent to look. The prices started at 20,000 and went up
>to 40,000. I rode the 40,000 horse; she did not go as good as my 1,000
>horse I just retired. She was no faster and had less of a handle. Can't
>always go by price alone.
>furface
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:58:55 -0600
To: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
In-Reply-To: <199801162238.OAA13580@web2.calweb.com>
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So really, there is no foolproof, absolutely safe way to keep a horse
enclosed or tied.
chris paus & star
At 02:38 PM 1/16/98 -0800, Lucy C Trumbull wrote:
>With all this talk about picket lines being the
>safest way to go, I'm sorry to have to come up
>with a bad picket line story (that's the trouble
>with this sport - for every "this is a safe thing
>to do" story, there'll be 20 people who's cousin's
>friend's auntie got killed doing it....)
>
>The guy who runs the barn where I board regularly
>takes him horses on hunting trips every year. They
>ride out into the middle of nowhere in the woods,
>fix up a picket line, and then go off an do their
>hunting thing.
>
>This year, he left his steady horse Lala tied up like
>this. As I understand it, Lala is a sensible horse,
>is used to being on a picket line and not prone to
>panicking... well, Lala somehow managed to truss himself
>up like a chicken and was in a very bad state, with many
>rope cuts, by the time they returned.
>
>I have no idea how this happened - whether the picket line
>was incorrectly set up, the horse was allowed too close
>to the tree (I think a tree was involved somewhere in
>there), whatever. I imagine the guy has been doing this
>for years and years and this is the first time he'd had
>problems.
>
>So, with this in mind - be careful what you do, use your
>imagination extra-hard to think up creative ways your
>horse will hurt himself (afterall, you know that he will
>spend that quiet time, not munching innocently on hay,
>but scheming to himself), and keep an eye on them.
>
>
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
>Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
>
>http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
>http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
>* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>
>
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:33:27 -0600 (CST)
To: furface@liii.com, rides2far@juno.com
Cc: ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Next endurance prospect
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David and Striders: Now this is one I'll have to defend or at least have
some fun with. My first go with horses was with playing polo. Its right
up there as having as much fun, maybe even a tad more. Some of the
parties after a match were outstanding! And the women. Oh, how they liked
to hang out with polo players. Actually they wern"t seasoned women ,
rather just young ladies. But back to the horse part. A good, made polo
horse will actually foow the ball. Something a green endurance horse just
wouldn't do. Maybe in time. I had a GREAT thoroughbred cross mare thaat I
retired, bred her and sold the colt for $1,000. With the option from the
seller that if he was ever to sell Speedlimit that I had first right of
refusal. Several years later I get a call, and its the owner of
Speedlimit. He has an offer and if I want him the price is $10,000. By
then I was doing endurance and I let Speedlimit remain a polo horse.
Point: He went out the barn a a very fair price and several years later
could have been purchased back at a fair price because I know what it took
to make him. Every horse is made to do a certain type of job. It is our
responsibility to find the right slot for the horse. Depending on the slot
and the current market conditions for the critter will get you to the
price. Just my $2.00 worth. And thanks for giving me a chance to smile a
little, thinking back on how much fun polo was and the horses that went
along with the sport. Jerry Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing ...JABASK
KNIGHT
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:46:55 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Field Trial Stake-out Rig vs. Picket Lines
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I can't stand it,and so I must type.First,the materials:One junk
truck axle shaft,free,from Joe,your neighborhood mechanic.One junk brake
disc(rotor),free,from Joe.He's going to give you this stuff for free
because you are so kind as to haul your loaded horse trailer around in
overdrive all the time.Pick out a rotor with plenty of "offset",in other
words,one which is "tall" when viewed from the side as if it were a man's
hat.
So much for the free parts.Now go to a real hardcore manly hardware
store.Get a length of coated stainless 3/16 cable 18 inches longer than
your finished length-13&1/2 feet will give you a 12 foot length and a
24foot circle.There's no rope in this rig.Get 2 "U-clamps" and 2 U-shaped
"ferrules",and a "double ring"galvanized steel swivel to go with the
cable.These items will be on display right there with thecable.Next,and
this is the most critical part,get 12 feet of the stiffest hose you can
find. This is NOT garden hose. I used automotive air conditioning
hose,and suggest something even stiffer.Auto heater hose is NOT stiff
enough.Some "commercial" water hose might be okay-maybe.Next item is a
piece of common mild steel rod, 1/4 or 5/16",at least a 24inch
piece.Next,one large bronze snap swivel,emphasis swivel,of the type
you're already familiar with.
Now,three pieces of simple metalworking must be
done,by you ,or Joe,or somebody.First,if there are any wheel studs in the
end of the axle,drive 'em out with a big hammer &
discard.Second-optional-,grind or cut a crude point onto the end of the
axle.Third,cut a 14" piece from your steel rod,and bend it into a large
oval shape about 3" x 6",with the open ends of the rod at the end of the
oval. Cut a 7" piece of rod. Weld -or have welded- one end of this rod
into a flat junction with the open end of your oval.DO NOT allow this to
be done with a "Wire-Feed","MIG" welder which is probably the method your
average car mechanic will want to use.It must be done with any other
welding equipment,or it can break.Bend your "handle" up just a
bit.Then bend a small loop of your oval's "handle"up and around one end o
the double-ring swivel,and weld it shut.Go home.You're ready to lace this
thing together.
Put one of the u-shaped ferrules on the other end of the double
ring swivel,loop the cable around this,and clamp it down with about six
inches excess length.Slide the other end of the cable through the
hose,and lace up the same way to your bronze snap swivel. Rig your length
such that the length betwen cable clamps is about 1 inch greater than the
hose,with the excess cable ends tucked neatly into the
hose.Oops.Sorry-forgot the washers.Two big washers at each end-over each
two bights of cable and between the hose and the clamps.This thing's got
to spin along its length and swivel at both ends.
Now you can try 'er out.Pound the axle into the ground after you
place it through the oval-"handle" facing up and through the rotor-disc
side down.You only need drive it down about 12-14 inches.That's plenty of
hold,but can easily be removed after rocking side to side.C'est tout. Go
get your horse.If you give him hay,scatter the flakearound the outer edge
of the circle..Hay and sticks are the only things I've seen tangle
'em.You can get one of those "mountaineer" looking big steel oval
snaps,and clip your horse safely to fences or buildings on your cable rig
without the axle&rotor.This is the best rig there is,but do not leave any
elements out.My horse has never once tangled himself up in any way,even
when rolling.Can your horse roll when tied to a trailer or picket?Can he
walk around to ease his aches & pains?Can you put your set-up in place
instantly in an emergency,anywhere? Build a Field Trial Stake-out. Your
horse will thank you.
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:55:40 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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> If you unhitch your truck and tie one end to the trailer, one end to the
> truck, won't the rope be too low to the ground? Where on the truck can
> you tie it that it would be high enough?
Kim:
Since I was one of the responders who has unhooked my truck and trailer and
extended my picket line between; I'll respond to your question:
On separate occasions, I have tied to 1), the luggage rack on top of the
pickup shell, and 2) higher up on the Cabover camper. True, you wouldn't
want to be tying to the bumper, or the door handles!
Since my guy is only 14.2, this worked fine............however, I now love
my PVC corral. With the horse picketed to the camper, every move he made
was echoed to the rig.......no sleep that way!
Friends of mine picket to a stake in the ground; rubber hose over the rope
for 'burn' protection.......but I've also witnessed same horse
"self-hog-tied" in same rubber hose.......
--
Deanne Del Vecchio Gabe ===== wondering if it will ever stop raining here in
*sunny* California
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:19:58 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: lyoness@castlenet.com (Joane Pappas White)
Subject: Youth Endurance Saddles
A couple of issues ago, someone wrote that they had a youth endurance saddle
for sale and would have it at the convention. Please contact me directly.
My little friend Morgan, age 10, needs an endurance saddle. He is
currectly riding in a 40 year old Hereford Saddle which is great for roping
but has its limitations for distance.
Today he commented that his knees were bothering him--something I thought
was limited to we "older" riders. My knees kill me in my western saddle but
never bother me in our endurance types.
WHICH SADDLES DO OUR JUNIOR RIDERS USE? I measured Morgan's saddle and it
is a 13 inches western saddle. Please recommend a youth saddle for Morgan
and Baby Tzar who has no withers.
Thanks, Joane
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Automatic or Shift
Message-ID: <19980117.104343.17822.2.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:44:58 EST
A friend of mine was haven't a great deal of trouble riding evenly. In
her exercise class she found that her left leg was much stronger than her
right. Guess what, she drove a car with a stiff clutch. Unless you want
to do compensatory leg exercises, you might want to think about it.
Angie McGhee, happy owner of an automatic
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To: paus@micoks.net
Cc: elsie@calweb.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: picket lines
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:44:58 EST
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:58:55 -0600 Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net> writes:
>So really, there is no foolproof, absolutely safe way to keep a horse
>enclosed or tied.
>
>chris paus & star
I would never go off and leave my horse at any temporary enclosure. I'm
always within earshot.
Angie (who never leaves camp to go for ice)
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:58:48 -0600
To: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
Cc: elsie@calweb.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Me too. I don't really sleep much in camp. I always have one ear open for
Star. And I think he does for me too. He talks to me during th e night.
Once, however, I woke up in the middle of the night and checked on him and
he had the rope wrapped around his legs. He was just standing there waiting
for me to rescue him.
I learned as a youngster, longer ago than I care to remember, how quickly
horses get themselves, and us into trouble. When I was 14, I tied my horse
to a picnic table on a concrete patio. BAD IDEA i found out in a split
second.... She moved her head, the table scraped on the patio and made a
bad noise, and the rest is history.... smashed picnic table, broken bridle,
runaway horse on a busy road...I still wish I could thank that guy who
jumped out of his car adn threw his arms around her neck and wrestled her
to a stop!
chris paus & star
At 10:44 PM 1/16/98 EST, Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
>On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:58:55 -0600 Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net> writes:
>>So really, there is no foolproof, absolutely safe way to keep a horse
>>enclosed or tied.
>>
>>chris paus & star
>
>
>I would never go off and leave my horse at any temporary enclosure. I'm
>always within earshot.
>
>Angie (who never leaves camp to go for ice)
>
>
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Lucy Chaplin Trumbull" <elsie@calweb.com>,
"Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: training for endurance
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:15:06 -0800
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Lucy,
Glad you responded & set my mind at ease. I was visualizing an accident
waiting to happen.
Have you ever tried riding in a vosal. I don't like putting a bit in my
horses mouth if I can get away from it. With a Vosal, you have more control
than with the Ride Halter or Sidepull, but there is still no bit in the
horses mouth. Some of the Endurance Tack Vendors carry them. I think they
are great. It works under the horses chin and over their nose. Most times
I start a ride with my vosal attached to a headstall & have the Ride Halter
beneath. Usually I remove the vosal & headstall by the noon stop.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
To: Pat Fredrickson <patfred@snowcrest.net>
Cc: Endurance list <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 4:56 PM
Subject: training for endurance
>Pat Fredrickson wrote:
>> PLEASE DO NOT use my rope halter by itself on the first endurance ride
your
>> horse does. You should try it along with your usual gear so you can be
sure
>> that you can control your horse. I always advise using two sets of reins
>> until you know for sure that your horse will respond to the rope ride
>> halter.
>
>No Pat! Don't worry - I wouldn't even *consider* the idea of just
>hopping onto the horse in a rope halter and expecting her to
>behave herself.
>
>I'm mostly curious about different training methods. At the moment,
>we don't have "usual gear" to fall back to. Her "usual gear" *is*
>a rope halter.
>
>But I have a clean slate with this horse, and don't want to
>automatically just follow standard practises because "that's
>just the way it's done".
>
>(like something I heard recently on TV: "we start our horses in
>bosals, by the time they're four we're riding them in a snaffle,
>and then they graduate to a curb..." ...Why??)
>
>If I was thinking about dressage, then that would be a different
>thing. I don't necessarily need to teach her some of the subtleties
>that would necessitate using a bit (although maybe one day... ,g>).
>In this case, I want to train my mare to have good manners,
>but also be a good endurance horse.
>
>I suspect that sometimes there is a tendency for people just to
>let their horses go down the trail at an "active pace" - afterall,
>you want the horse to "move out" down the trail with little fuss.
>But I wonder how many of them are doing this because they don't
>have much choice in the matter? Because it's easier to "let them
>go" than be in charge of what speed the horse travels at.
>
>> A lot of riders, including me, love riding in them, but please use
>> caution.
>
>Always. I'm the wimpiest person alive when it comes to caution.
>
>That's why I've had this horse since April, but only just started
>riding her, and haven't ever ridden her outside the confines of an
>arena. She's not ready and I'm not ready.
>
>When we *are* ready, we'll be out there on the trails, hand-walking
>in full tack, to gauge how she's going to react. Then, once we can
>doing some trail riding, we'll be at rides as observers. I don't
>believe in stuffing her into something without her being mentally
>prepared for it (of course, all this would help if I actually
>had a trailer to take her out for "jaunts" in... <grin>)
>
>And always keeping in mind, as Linda writes:
>> "Unasked for speed is unacceptable" gets lost in "But the herd went
>> thata way!"--
>**************************************************************
>Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
>Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
>
>http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
>http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
>**************************************************************
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:21:28 -0600
To: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>,
"Lucy Chaplin Trumbull" <elsie@calweb.com>,
"Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: training for endurance
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I ride Star with an eggbutt snaffle because that is mild adn seems to work
well for him, but my Morgan has never had a bit in his mouth. He is 19
years old adn has always been ridden with a hackamore. My ex-husband, who
used to train horses, always started them in hackamores and then switched
to bits. Cisco worked so well with the hackamore, we figured, why bother
with the bit. We had lots of whoa and easy control and he is a pleasure to
ride. My 9 year old neighbor girl rides him with ease.
I just would add to watch the mechanical action and make sure you get a
hackamore that doesn't pinch.
At 08:15 PM 1/16/98 -0800, Pat Fredrickson wrote:
>Lucy,
>
>Glad you responded & set my mind at ease. I was visualizing an accident
>waiting to happen.
>
>Have you ever tried riding in a vosal. I don't like putting a bit in my
>horses mouth if I can get away from it. With a Vosal, you have more control
>than with the Ride Halter or Sidepull, but there is still no bit in the
>horses mouth. Some of the Endurance Tack Vendors carry them. I think they
>are great. It works under the horses chin and over their nose. Most times
>I start a ride with my vosal attached to a headstall & have the Ride Halter
>beneath. Usually I remove the vosal & headstall by the noon stop.
>
>Pat Fredrickson
>Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
>http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
>To: Pat Fredrickson <patfred@snowcrest.net>
>Cc: Endurance list <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 4:56 PM
>Subject: training for endurance
>
>
>>Pat Fredrickson wrote:
>>> PLEASE DO NOT use my rope halter by itself on the first endurance ride
>your
>>> horse does. You should try it along with your usual gear so you can be
>sure
>>> that you can control your horse. I always advise using two sets of reins
>>> until you know for sure that your horse will respond to the rope ride
>>> halter.
>>
>>No Pat! Don't worry - I wouldn't even *consider* the idea of just
>>hopping onto the horse in a rope halter and expecting her to
>>behave herself.
>>
>>I'm mostly curious about different training methods. At the moment,
>>we don't have "usual gear" to fall back to. Her "usual gear" *is*
>>a rope halter.
>>
>>But I have a clean slate with this horse, and don't want to
>>automatically just follow standard practises because "that's
>>just the way it's done".
>>
>>(like something I heard recently on TV: "we start our horses in
>>bosals, by the time they're four we're riding them in a snaffle,
>>and then they graduate to a curb..." ...Why??)
>>
>>If I was thinking about dressage, then that would be a different
>>thing. I don't necessarily need to teach her some of the subtleties
>>that would necessitate using a bit (although maybe one day... ,g>).
>>In this case, I want to train my mare to have good manners,
>>but also be a good endurance horse.
>>
>>I suspect that sometimes there is a tendency for people just to
>>let their horses go down the trail at an "active pace" - afterall,
>>you want the horse to "move out" down the trail with little fuss.
>>But I wonder how many of them are doing this because they don't
>>have much choice in the matter? Because it's easier to "let them
>>go" than be in charge of what speed the horse travels at.
>>
>>> A lot of riders, including me, love riding in them, but please use
>>> caution.
>>
>>Always. I'm the wimpiest person alive when it comes to caution.
>>
>>That's why I've had this horse since April, but only just started
>>riding her, and haven't ever ridden her outside the confines of an
>>arena. She's not ready and I'm not ready.
>>
>>When we *are* ready, we'll be out there on the trails, hand-walking
>>in full tack, to gauge how she's going to react. Then, once we can
>>doing some trail riding, we'll be at rides as observers. I don't
>>believe in stuffing her into something without her being mentally
>>prepared for it (of course, all this would help if I actually
>>had a trailer to take her out for "jaunts" in... <grin>)
>>
>>And always keeping in mind, as Linda writes:
>>> "Unasked for speed is unacceptable" gets lost in "But the herd went
>>> thata way!"--
>>**************************************************************
>>Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
>>Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
>>
>>http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
>>http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
>>**************************************************************
>>
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:25:34 -0600
To: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Field Trial Stake-out Rig vs. Picket Lines
In-Reply-To: <34C045CF.5E1C@cfw.com>
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I'll have to pass this on to my rocket scientist husband who likes to
tinker with stuff and see if he could do this. It is over my head!
But then, I'm known around here as mechanically declined!
chris paus & star
At 09:46 PM 1/16/98 -0800, Raymond O'Donohue wrote:
>I can't stand it,and so I must type.First,the materials:One junk
>truck axle shaft,free,from Joe,your neighborhood mechanic.One junk brake
>disc(rotor),free,from Joe.He's going to give you this stuff for free
>because you are so kind as to haul your loaded horse trailer around in
>overdrive all the time.Pick out a rotor with plenty of "offset",in other
>words,one which is "tall" when viewed from the side as if it were a man's
>hat.
>So much for the free parts.Now go to a real hardcore manly hardware
>store.Get a length of coated stainless 3/16 cable 18 inches longer than
>your finished length-13&1/2 feet will give you a 12 foot length and a
>24foot circle.There's no rope in this rig.Get 2 "U-clamps" and 2 U-shaped
>"ferrules",and a "double ring"galvanized steel swivel to go with the
>cable.These items will be on display right there with thecable.Next,and
>this is the most critical part,get 12 feet of the stiffest hose you can
>find. This is NOT garden hose. I used automotive air conditioning
>hose,and suggest something even stiffer.Auto heater hose is NOT stiff
>enough.Some "commercial" water hose might be okay-maybe.Next item is a
>piece of common mild steel rod, 1/4 or 5/16",at least a 24inch
>piece.Next,one large bronze snap swivel,emphasis swivel,of the type
>you're already familiar with.
> Now,three pieces of simple metalworking must be
>done,by you ,or Joe,or somebody.First,if there are any wheel studs in the
>end of the axle,drive 'em out with a big hammer &
>discard.Second-optional-,grind or cut a crude point onto the end of the
>axle.Third,cut a 14" piece from your steel rod,and bend it into a large
>oval shape about 3" x 6",with the open ends of the rod at the end of the
>oval. Cut a 7" piece of rod. Weld -or have welded- one end of this rod
>into a flat junction with the open end of your oval.DO NOT allow this to
>be done with a "Wire-Feed","MIG" welder which is probably the method your
>average car mechanic will want to use.It must be done with any other
>welding equipment,or it can break.Bend your "handle" up just a
>bit.Then bend a small loop of your oval's "handle"up and around one end o
>the double-ring swivel,and weld it shut.Go home.You're ready to lace this
>thing together.
> Put one of the u-shaped ferrules on the other end of the double
>ring swivel,loop the cable around this,and clamp it down with about six
>inches excess length.Slide the other end of the cable through the
>hose,and lace up the same way to your bronze snap swivel. Rig your length
>such that the length betwen cable clamps is about 1 inch greater than the
>hose,with the excess cable ends tucked neatly into the
>hose.Oops.Sorry-forgot the washers.Two big washers at each end-over each
>two bights of cable and between the hose and the clamps.This thing's got
>to spin along its length and swivel at both ends.
> Now you can try 'er out.Pound the axle into the ground after you
>place it through the oval-"handle" facing up and through the rotor-disc
>side down.You only need drive it down about 12-14 inches.That's plenty of
>hold,but can easily be removed after rocking side to side.C'est tout. Go
>get your horse.If you give him hay,scatter the flakearound the outer edge
>of the circle..Hay and sticks are the only things I've seen tangle
>'em.You can get one of those "mountaineer" looking big steel oval
>snaps,and clip your horse safely to fences or buildings on your cable rig
>without the axle&rotor.This is the best rig there is,but do not leave any
>elements out.My horse has never once tangled himself up in any way,even
>when rolling.Can your horse roll when tied to a trailer or picket?Can he
>walk around to ease his aches & pains?Can you put your set-up in place
>instantly in an emergency,anywhere? Build a Field Trial Stake-out. Your
>horse will thank you.
>
>
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:26:46 -0800
From: Pete Occhialini <poko@jps.net>
Reply-To: poko@jps.net
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--
Rancho Occhialini
"Where the fat guy lumbers"
I have been reading the post on the completion times and up till now was
content to agree and disagree in the comfort and privacy of my home.
However the post from the rider who was weighing whether to stop to help
a fellow rider with a broken arm or continue on to get a completion was
a little frightening to read. If you have to even think about stopping
to aid someone in distress, you are not anyone I want on a ride with
me. When the Castle Rock ride was held 2 years ago(?) the weather was
unusually hot and humid. My husband and his friend were within 10 miles
of completion, when they came upon a horse in full tack standing off to
the side of the trail. They dismounted and discovered a rider about 30
feet away from her horse, disoriented and dehydrated. After giving her
water, and getting her back on her horse they walked her in to the next
vet check. They were able to complete the ride, but that wasn't even a
concern at the time. I was pleased that they had stopped, but did not
consider that it was exceptional behavior, because any of the group that
I ride with would have done the same thing .
Also, if you have a ride that is experiencing extemely difficult and
dangerous weather, cancel it. Why lengthen the completion times and
force an animal to be exposed to these conditions even longer than
necessary. Leave the rule the way it is, go out, ride the ride and
have a good time.
Karin Occhialini
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8aa35477.34c03417@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:31:17 EST
To: elsie@calweb.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: training for endurance
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In a message dated 98-01-16 23:16:24 EST, you write:
<< If I was thinking about dressage, then that would be a different
>thing. I don't necessarily need to teach her some of the subtleties
>that would necessitate using a bit (although maybe one day... ,g>). >>
I guess I missed Lucy's original post. I think one of the biggest mistakes
endurance riders make is NOT to be doing dressage training right along with
endurance conditioning. Dressage teaches a horse to round his back, assisting
him in carrying your weight all those miles. It teaches him to utilize his
gaits more completely and more freely. It gives you and your horse basic and
intimate communication skills. From my vantage point as ride veterinarian I
see all too many horses that are fit but performing well below their
capabilities simply because they have never been taught "the basics". I don't
ride rides in a bit most of the time, but all of my horses start out in
snaffles and "graduate" to the bitless state when they are old hands.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Picket Lines
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 04:39:33 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c4351a.1721102@mail.mti.net>
References: <34BFF31F.31D5@ix.netcom.com>
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:54:07 -0800, Kimberly Price
<PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>This might be a silly question but I'm going to ask it regardless! And
>I'm on digest (a very slow one these days, I might add) so please cc:
>me.
>If you unhitch your truck and tie one end to the trailer, one end to the
>truck, won't the rope be too low to the ground? Where on the truck can
>you tie it that it would be high enough?
Absolutely. A couple of points that need to be stressed is that the
picket rope should be higher than the horse's head (at least no lower)
and that the lead from the picket rope to the halter should be just
long enough to let the horse's head reach the ground -- no longer.
A way to get it high enough is to run the rope *over* the roof of the
truck or camper and tie to something on the far side. This is a
stronger arrangement as well.
One last suggestion: the lead from the picket line to the horse
should have a snap that can be released under tension, in case the
horse does get tangled. And always have a knife that you can cut a
rope with as a last resort.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:03:40 -0700
From: "Marcus R. Hoff" <mrhoff@srv.net>
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Subject: One fine portable corral
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I have been reading ride camp this last week and just have to reply.
PVC corrals tend to get old and break if they get sun brittle. They can
break with sharp edges and do damage. As for
electric fences, everyone knows the problems there.
I build the HORSE-N-AROUND Corral System. Iit has worked
very well for our customers. It mounts on the side of a
trailer very neatly. The mount has a rubber cushion on the bottom and
side
and uses turnbuckles to hold corral panels snug. (No ropes or bungee
cords
needed). The corral was made for a lady to handle; with 8' panels only
25 lbs.
The mount will hold up to eleven panels on one side of a trailer, wide
body
trailers have to use a bay inside. Yes this corral can cost as much as
a new saddle,
but the security of your horse and being able to sleep at night is well
worth it.
We do invite you to shop around and compare quality and price. Our
corrals
are completely welded steel, all corners are rounded and 45 degree cuts
on
welded corners. No plastic plugs to lose leaving sharp ends. Bottom of
legs
are pointed to help prevent horse from pushing corral around. Panels are
powder coated for a longer lasting finnish. This is a high quality truly
portable
corral. When purchasing a full corral the cost of an 8 ft. panel is $71
($8.87
per ft.). The mount is $185 (two frames spreading the load over whole
trailer
wall.) Not just a simple hook to hang on.
Please forgive if this sounds like an AD; with all the corral, or
pen problems
I had to say something about the good ones. Please check our page on
endurance.net/horsenaround.
M.R.Hoff
HORSE-N-AROUND
--------------880545352255F74542A4B603
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<HTML>
I have been reading ride camp this last week and just have to reply.
<BR>PVC corrals tend to get old and break if they get sun brittle. They
can
<BR>break with sharp edges and do damage. As for
<BR>electric fences, everyone knows the problems there.
<P>I build the HORSE-N-AROUND Corral System. Iit has worked
<BR>very well for our customers. It mounts on the side of a
<BR>trailer very neatly. The mount has a rubber cushion on the bottom and
side
<BR>and uses turnbuckles to hold corral panels snug. (No ropes or bungee
cords
<BR>needed). The corral was made for a lady to handle; with 8' panels only
25 lbs.
<BR>The mount will hold up to eleven panels on one side of a trailer, wide
body
<BR>trailers have to use a bay inside. Yes this corral can cost as
much as a new saddle,
<BR>but the security of your horse and being able to sleep at night is
well worth it.
<BR>We do invite you to shop around and compare quality and price. Our
corrals
<BR>are completely welded steel, all corners are rounded and 45 degree
cuts on
<BR>welded corners. No plastic plugs to lose leaving sharp ends. Bottom
of legs
<BR>are pointed to help prevent horse from pushing corral around. Panels
are
<BR>powder coated for a longer lasting finnish. This is a high quality
truly portable
<BR>corral. When purchasing a full corral the cost of an 8 ft. panel is
$71 ($8.87
<BR>per ft.). The mount is $185 (two frames spreading the load
over whole trailer
<BR>wall.) Not just a simple hook to hang on.
<BR> Please forgive if this sounds like an
AD; with all the corral, or pen problems
<BR>I had to say something about the good ones. Please check our
page on <U>endurance.net/horsenaround.</U><U></U>
<P>M.R.Hoff
<BR>HORSE-N-AROUND</HTML>
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "RUN4BEAR" <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>, <dahlia@gte.net>, <paus@micoks.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines*
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:01:47 -0800
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Whether a rope is going to damage a tree depends on how many horses, how
quiet they stand, the age and variety of the tree, the diameter of the high
line, and how long the high line is in use. I would expect that softwood
trees (common in the west) may indeed may be damaged more easily than
perhaps an oak - but I have never experimented. Tree saver straps are highly
recommended, perhaps even required by some land managers.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
To: dahlia@gte.net <dahlia@gte.net>; paus@micoks.net <paus@micoks.net>
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: picket lines*
>In a message dated 98-01-16 07:46:04 EST, dahlia@gte.net writes:
>
><< I use what is called a high-line. I made "tree-saver" straps out of old
> seat-belts. (You can obtain these at auto junkyards for very little
> cost.) I cut off all the hardware and lap the ends back and sew with
> strong nylon thread. Do this on both ends. You wrap these around two
> trees, distance apart depends on how many horses to be tied to one line.
> You want them far enough apart so there are no disagreements and no one
> gets tangled up. I put the tree savers up as high as I can, usually
> about 12 feet. Run a nylon rope through and tie as tight as possible.
> This is much easier to do if someone helps you, it is almost a necessity
> to have 2 people. You want the rope you tie the horses to, up high,
> horses should be able to walk underneath it.
>
> Hope this helps. Let me know if you want more info or don't understand
> what I mean, I'm not sure I conveyed it just right.
>
> Susan - WA
>
> >>
>I have yet to ruin a tree with my poly rope and NO protection for the
>tree...But, it IS a good idea....are tress on the west coast more
susceptible
>to damage than those out here on the East?
>
>Teddy
>
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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 22:54:59 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
CC: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>, ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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Chris Paus wrote:
> So really, there is no foolproof, absolutely safe way to keep a horse
> enclosed or tied.
Chris:
Nope. That's the nature of the horse. Run wild, Run free, Don't cage me
in. But most of 'safely enclosing a horse' comes from the training of
that horse.
--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe ===== oh, no, don't cage me in, let me run wild
and free....and just come back for carrots and apples, okay, bran and
hay, and ............
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:15:39 -0800
From: Jerry & Susan Milam <jdmilam@fwb.gulf.net>
Reply-To: jdmilam@fwb.gulf.net
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To: Joane Pappas White <lyoness@castlenet.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Youth Endurance Saddles
References: <199801162023.UAA11749@ns1.castlenet.com>
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Joane Pappas White wrote:
>
> A couple of issues ago, someone wrote that they had a youth endurance saddle for sale and would have it at the convention. Please contact me directly.
>
> My little friend Morgan, age 10, needs an endurance saddle. He is
> currectly riding in a 40 year old Hereford Saddle which is great for roping but has its limitations for distance.
>
> Today he commented that his knees were bothering him--something I thought was limited to we "older" riders. My knees kill me in my western saddle but never bother me in our endurance types.
>
> WHICH SADDLES DO OUR JUNIOR RIDERS USE? I measured Morgan's saddle and it is a 13 inches western saddle. Please recommend a youth saddle for Morgan and Baby Tzar who has no withers.
>
> Thanks, Joane
>
Joane,
I had the same trouble with my 11 yo last yaer. I finally got her a 16"
english wintec synthetic. The price is right and it kind of sticks to
them . I looked into aussies.... which probably would be the right
direction for aomeone who's used to western style seating. A good aussie
saddle without the horn and the nice poleys that block your thigh from
coming forward during a spook are nice features for a youth saddle to
have. I just didn't want to spend the money at the time for one. There
should be some sites on the net for aussie saddles if you do a search.
Good luck
happy tails
Susan
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:19:32 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Auto vs Stick
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Check out the tow truck that comes to get you after you've been
towing in overdrive .It's not an automatic trans,is it?
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:14:02 -0700
From: Beverly Gray <bgray@xmission.com>
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Hi Lenore:
I know that Tim at Big Rock Farms 1-800-261-6060 transports horses from
the Pacific Northwest. He knows the route, stopover points etc. He is
also very, very careful with your horse.
bgray@xmission.com
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:07:08 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
CC: Ridecamp Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Field Trial Stake-out Rig vs. Picket Lines
References: <34C045CF.5E1C@cfw.com>
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Raymond O'Donohue wrote:
Build a Field Trial Stake-out. Your
> horse will thank you.
I did. And the first time I used it, she got the rubber hose wrapped
near her rear legs and sort of did this rear thing and fell on her back.
Needless to say I was sort of shaken up as this happened within the
first 15 min. Someone told me that instead of snaping the "hose" to the
halter, to use a hobble and put it on her back leg to be the safest.
Haven't tried it yet, but I will.
Lauren
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <12c3430.34c0d7f1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:10:23 EST
To: rayo@cfw.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Auto vs Stick
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In a message dated 98-01-17 09:54:08 EST, you write:
<< Check out the tow truck that comes to get you after you've been
towing in overdrive .It's not an automatic trans,is it? >>
Just had to comment on this subject--Ray, you are SOOOOO right....
I have yet to replace a standard transmission. Have worn out several pickups.
Have one parked in my yard right now with over 400,000 miles on it, all either
towing or being beat around in a rural veterinary practice. Still has the
original manual tranny, which still works great. (Is on its second engine.)
Have more recently been driving automatics. Haven't worn out a truck yet.
Have replaced two trannys. They don't last as long as the engines do. Did
replace an occasional clutch on the manuals, but they are WAAAAY cheaper than
trannys and don't die all at once. Had to replace one automatic tranny 1000
miles from home, got ripped off by the shop, delayed almost a week, the tow-
truck scenario, horses to farm out, etc. Clutches always gave me lots of
warning that they were wearing out, and I always got them replaced by my own
mechanic in my own hometown in my own sweet time. Far better scenario. Am
currently driving an automatic--had to get a truck in a hurry after a divorce
and got a good deal on it. It is the last one I will ever own. Just for the
record, I haul HEAVY trailers LONG distances (from Oregon to places like
Arizona and Texas and Missouri), and yes, I have driven my stick shifts
through awful places like LA and Seattle MANY MANY times, and STILL would
rather have the stick shift. I have finally "learned" to deal with snow and
ice with my automatic, but it will never be as good at that, either, as the
good old stick...
Been there, done that, got the T-shirt....
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: <LIZSZELIGA@delphi.com>, "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:16:34 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd2363$47c88520$6713c9cf@patfred>
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Liz,
My web page shows a picture of the Ride Halter. There are 4 knots over the
nose instead of the two and I put 1" brass rings in the side knots. It then
works like a side pull.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: LIZSZELIGA@delphi.com <LIZSZELIGA@delphi.com>
To: patfred@snowcrest.net <patfred@snowcrest.net>
Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 5:45 AM
Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores
>Pat-
>
>I see mention of your rope "riding" halter. Is that different
>than the knotted rope halter? I ride in my knotted rope halter
>by attaching the reins to the double rope loop that is intended
>for the lead line. I'm happy with that set up, but wondering
>if there is an improvement available.
>
>Thanks,
>Liz in Belchertown, MA
>
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Message-ID: <34C0E004.1010@fea.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 08:44:52 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
Reply-To: fourhorn@fea.net
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To: Pat Fredrickson <patfred@snowcrest.net>
CC: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>,
"Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: training for endurance
References: <01bd22fe$7def1520$2d12c9cf@patfred>
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Pat Fredrickson wrote:
> I start a ride with my vosal attached to a headstall & have the Ride
I attach my vosal directly to my rope halter. There are small knots in
the halter about the level of the horses eyes and my vosal (with side
clips) clips perfectly on it. Thanks Pat - you make a great halter!
Lauren
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: <fourhorn@fea.net>, "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: training for endurance
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:12:27 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd236b$15ed7bc0$6713c9cf@patfred>
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Lauren,
I know a number of people that use bit hangers on my halters and attach the
bit to that. Most of the Tack Vendors sell bit hangers that will work.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
To: Pat Fredrickson <patfred@snowcrest.net>
Cc: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>; Ridecamp (E-mail)
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: training for endurance
>Pat Fredrickson wrote:
>
>> I start a ride with my vosal attached to a headstall & have the Ride
>
>
>I attach my vosal directly to my rope halter. There are small knots in
>the halter about the level of the horses eyes and my vosal (with side
>clips) clips perfectly on it. Thanks Pat - you make a great halter!
>
>Lauren
>
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From: Marinera <Marinera@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ca2835c7.34c0e9d1@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:26:39 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net, RUN4BEAR@aol.com
Subject: Keep It Simple, last time
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Teddy wrote;
Julie
Still...there was the ride from hell when the monsoons came and NOBODY would
have gotten a completion.....how about the ride where the trail markers were
vandalized and NOBODY knew where to go?
Teddy
Teddy, I think the point I was trying to make is that you cannot let your life
revolve around the misfortunes that sooner or later are going to happen to you
in this sport...i.e. monsoons, injured riders, vandals and other delaying
factors. With your years in the sport and the miles you have chalked up, does
it really matter whether you have fifty miles less in your total records, or
50 points less? How many times have you actually been overtime because of
factors over which you had no control? It has never happened to me in thirty-
four years of endurance riding so I guess I am about due. I hope when it does
that I can be as understanding as I seem to be asking all of you to be. If
not, you can point your fingers and I will cry "uncle" . 12 hours for a 50
and 24 hours for 100, "total elapsed time", has been the understood time limit
since the first hundred miler (1955) and fifty miler (1966)were staged. It
works well with rare exceptions. We do not need rules for rare exceptions.
We take our lumps and come back next year. Julie
5879 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003024 06460165431 0013122 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08584 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:32:05 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:32:05 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801171732.JAA08584@fsr.com>
Subject: Arab Hater!!! KILL THEM ALL!
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: debbie Zanot
Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
I was reading all the wonderful stories posted about Arabs being bought cheap and becoming treasures to their owners. I have a few like that myself. I look for those Arabians that people buy and you know darn well they will never understand them, because Arabians are different..
Loretta Wazelle told me that there is a awful Arab hating woman near where she lives that seeks out these Arabs specifically to sell them to the Killers. This woman poses as a caring buyer, but will not buy Arabs that are poor because she can't get good meat prices..A friend of mine was going to sell one of his horses and it is a good thing I warned him about this woman , because she answered his add..If I had her name I would plaster it in capitol letters..I will ask Loretta, but meantime anyone in the Ohio area interested in looking some of these horses over before they go to an awful death should call this idiot..Maybe we could hang her eh?
I have to many horses to even go look..but I am sure there has to be someone out there..Next time I post I will have her name and phone #
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: <jfhr@inetworld.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:56:46 -0700
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Hi Patrick -
You have the correct e-mail address. This is not a website, just a
special e-mail address to handle comments on the issue. If it did not work
for you the first time, there may be a server glitch. Those are usually
temporary, and will ultimately respond. We have had friends nationwide use
this address successfully, so keep trying. Thanks for your interest, Mary
----------
> From: Patrick E. Allen <jfhr@inet1.inetworld.net>
> To: Mary Burgess <mburgess@theglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
> Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 10:02 AM
>
>
>
> Mary Burgess wrote:
>
> > Dear Friends!
> > Your local phone company has begun a campaign to get the FCC to
Okay
> > per-minute charges for e-mail usage. Needless to say, e-mail is one of
the
> > only remaining "values" for us small folk!!! The FCC has created an
e-mail
> > address to hear your voice:
> > isp@fcc.gov
> > And they will make their decision by 2/13/98. This is IMPORTANT!!!
Tell
> > them what you think!!! Happy Trails, Mary Burgess
>
> Good Morning
>
> About 45 seconds ago I tried to access isp@fcc.gov .
> Do you have a correct e-mail or web site address?
>
> Thank you Pat
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 09:47:36 -0800
Subject: Endurance News
Message-ID: <19980117.094737.3534.0.krisolko@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
What's the last issue I should have received? My last one was Nov. Has
there been one since that?
Kris
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Message-Id: <199801171811.KAA10548@fsr.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 98 10:09:28 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Youth Endurance Saddles
REPLY TO 01/17/98 01:08 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Youth Endurance Saddles
My little friend Morgan, age 10, needs an endurance saddle. He is
currectly riding in a 40 year old Hereford Saddle which is great for roping
but has its limitations for distance.
Today he commented that his knees were bothering him--something I thought
was limited to we "older" riders. My knees kill me in my western saddle but
never bother me in our endurance types.
WHICH SADDLES DO OUR JUNIOR RIDERS USE? I measured Morgan's saddle and it
is a 13 inches western saddle. Please recommend a youth saddle for Morgan
and Baby Tzar who has no withers.
Thanks, Joane
--------
Joane, both my kids ride in Sport Saddles. My daughter, age 10
uses the endurance model, size 14", and my son, age 7 ysed the
Schooling and Training model, size 14" Both saddles have the
stirrups moved back some, as opposed to a lot of youth saddles I see
that have them hung too far forward. I used to have the kids ride
in a youth Aussie saddle, which was very secure for them, but I
disliked the fit on our swaybacked Welsh pony. The saddle sat them
up too high on the back and tended to tip from side to side. The
Sport saddle fits the pony wonderfully
I also have flex-ride stirrups for each saddle. Warning, for small
kids, the cages will NOT prevent the toes of the shoes or boots from
going through. After discussing this with the Fosters, we came up
with an excellent solution. Bob mentioned that the end of a
plastic liter soda bottle fit into the inside of the cage perfectly.
I tried this and it is great! I cut out the bottom part where the
foot pad is, and then just ductaped the raw edges of the plastic to
the stirrup. Now I have a comfortable and totally safe stirrup!
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:21:34 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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To: Mary Burgess <mburgess@theglobal.net>
CC: jfhr@inetworld.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
References: <199801171747.JAA09273@fsr.com>
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This is a bogus alarm! Go to www.fcc.gov and follow the links
concerning this issue. The address probably isn't working because it
isn't valid any longet due to a deluge of useless e-mail complaints.
The issue was decided months ago... in our favor.
Bill
Mary Burgess wrote:
>
> Hi Patrick -
> You have the correct e-mail address. This is not a website, just a
> special e-mail address to handle comments on the issue. If it did not work
> for you the first time, there may be a server glitch. Those are usually
> temporary, and will ultimately respond. We have had friends nationwide use
> this address successfully, so keep trying. Thanks for your interest, Mary
>
> ----------
> > From: Patrick E. Allen <jfhr@inet1.inetworld.net>
> > To: Mary Burgess <mburgess@theglobal.net>
> > Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
> > Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 10:02 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > Mary Burgess wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Friends!
> > > Your local phone company has begun a campaign to get the FCC to
> Okay
> > > per-minute charges for e-mail usage. Needless to say, e-mail is one of
> the
> > > only remaining "values" for us small folk!!! The FCC has created an
> e-mail
> > > address to hear your voice:
> > > isp@fcc.gov
> > > And they will make their decision by 2/13/98. This is IMPORTANT!!!
> Tell
> > > them what you think!!! Happy Trails, Mary Burgess
> >
> > Good Morning
> >
> > About 45 seconds ago I tried to access isp@fcc.gov .
> > Do you have a correct e-mail or web site address?
> >
> > Thank you Pat
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:41:47 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
Reply-To: Lynne@Glazer.org
Organization: Lynne Glazer Microsystems
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To: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Auto vs Stick
References: <12c3430.34c0d7f1@aol.com>
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I guess we all do what we can...
My 1 ton Dodge is my primary use truck--used in my consulting practice
to drive all over LA, frequently in rush hour traffic, often with the
bed full of equipment. After 11 years of driving a stick, I opted for
an automatic. This Dodge diesel has 67K miles in 2 years and 4 months.
It tows a gooseneck 4 horse perhaps 3-4 times max per month, completely
opposite Heidi's scenario.
It's not practical for me to have two trucks. Tried it and hated it.
As it is, I had to have a ramp built so that my truck (standard cab)
would fit in my condo's garage.
If I lived in a rural area, sure, I'd have a stick again. One of my
trucks went 147,000 miles before needing a clutch.
This is all making me nervous about my auto tranny--I do leave overdrive
on for the flats on the freeway, off for everything else while towing.
The rpms drop way down, my mileage improves. With O/D off, the mileage
even with the diesel is horrible.
I'd also like to have a stick again if in a rural area because the
transmission on this Dodge does a horrible job in 3rd gear--it needs a
gear splitter for more efficient use--doesn't matter what the rpm is, or
what weight I'm hauling, and the trailer is aluminum. A gear splitter
would be $2k, invalidates the warranty for anyone who still has one; I
had to chuckle at blasting through the "extended 2 yr warranty"
mileage-wise in less than a year.
Lynne
and Rem-member Me
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:09:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
X-Sender: lbm@klingon
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980117140837.23688C-100000@klingon>
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Mary Burgess wrote:
>
> Hi Patrick -
> You have the correct e-mail address. This is not a website, just a
> special e-mail address to handle comments on the issue. If it did not work
> for you the first time, there may be a server glitch. Those are usually
> temporary, and will ultimately respond. We have had friends nationwide use
> this address successfully, so keep trying. Thanks for your interest, Mary
In case everybody hasn't heard yet, this is the latest chain-
letter-urban-legend-virus circulating on the Internet. There
was a proposal *last year* by the phone companies to charge
*ISPs* for connect time, but that was rejected way back
in the spring of '97.
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:10:34 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: picket lines
References: <3.0.1.32.19980116195855.00b99a84@mail.micoks.net> <3.0.1.32.19980116215848.00b9c478@mail.micoks.net>
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... smashed picnic table, broken bridle,
> runaway horse on a busy road...I still wish I could thank that guy who
> jumped out of his car adn threw his arms around her neck and wrestled her
> to a stop!
Didn't D. Wayne Lukas' son try that with Tabasco Cat a few years ago and
get badly trampled for his troubles? I hear he's still in physical
therapy and has permanant brain damage. Brave of the your guy that got
your horse back for you---I sure wouldn't have tried it myself!
Susan
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:30:14 -0800
Subject: Saddle slicker
Message-ID: <19980117.113014.3534.3.krisolko@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Stateline Tack has a "saddle slicker" which is supposed to be a rain
cover
that you use while you ride. Has anyone tried this product? How was it?
Kris
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:55:21 -0800
From: Kim <aliakey@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 16:52:01 -0800, Connie DeJong <cdejong@cisco.com>
wrote:
>
> Use a cowboy hard rope, that's what all the packers do. It's best to use
> the correct knots for this, you can find a book on horse packing in most western tack stores that will describes the type of knots best suited for picket lines.
> Might also be at the library, we keep ours in the camper so I don't have the title handy.
> Connie
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
When I worked as a packer (yes, a girl... looked more a boy then) for
many seasons with a commercial East Sierra pack outfit, carrying around
the extra weight and bulk of lariats and misc. hardware for picket lines
was not feasible. We used our lash lines instead, which are the 50 foot
nylon ropes used to tie down the load on a pack mule/horse. Well, 50
foot length depends what hitch you were throwing, actually, they tended
to range from 35 to 50+ ft or so.
Anyway, nylon didn't stretch much, and we always tied a "modified"
bowline on one end to allow for a quick release if needed. The
modification involved running the end of the rope back through the hole
from where it originated... pull the end in an emergency, and the "loop"
pulls through, dropping the picket line (Before tightening down the
picket line, create "stops" every three feet by tying a doubled
"half-hitch"... this is made by grabbing a section of line, doubling it
over, and tying the very simple knot that looks like a pretzel).
We tied the horses to the line using a loose bowline which slid across
the picket line. The stops kept them from running each other over, and
stops were tied a couple of feet from the tree. We used sections of
cardboard "stolen" from the "kitchen" boxes to keep the ropes from
damaging the tree bark (just slip cardboard between the rope and bark).
Never let the trail cook catch you doing this though, otherwise you'll
have to fish for your meals instead!
The lines were kept as high or higher than one foot from the top of the
saddle horn. Although endurance saddles usually don't have horns, the
concept is the same. You may find yourself saddling on the line, and
you don't want to hang your saddle, spooking your horse. For excitable
steeds, we ran the lines extremely high (above raised head height) to
prevent accidental "hanging". Usually, pack stock are calm, mellow
types.
The buddy system works great for the excitable ones... see if you can't
find a calm "friend" to tie on the same line.
We fed any grain and pellets in nosebags on the line... never tried to
feed hay on the ground though (can't feed hay if you don't pack in hay
(g)).
And, as a final note (from someone who would like to see horse trails
around for many years), please select a picket area that is rather bare
of vegetation already (don't want to have the Forest Service angry for
destructive, pawing horses tearing up the plant life), spread out or
remove manure, and tie your line at least 100 feet or more from open
water sources (creeks, streams, lakes, etc.). Just my two bits, as
usual.
Kim (and ohhhh-nosebags-yumm) 'Lee
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 11:55:21 -0800
From: Kim <aliakey@geocities.com>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:12:02 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
CC: SandyDSA@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: For vets, males, and stallion owners
References: <ea282bba.34bfbb24@aol.com>
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Jock straps have been used in all types of flat as well as steeplechase
racing. However, nature as provided many means of support for the
testicles in stallions so that under natural conditions there is no need
for jock straps. Therefore, if a stallion has problems with swelling of
the testicles be it hot or cold there is something wrong and the
condition needs professional attention.
Carl Meyer D.V.M.
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:23:07 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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Besides the people in San Diego (who I know) does anyone know of or has
anything to say about a vet/chiropractor from Washington state named Dr.
Eno's. He travels nationally. E-mail me privately,please.
Lauren
fourhorn@fea.net
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To: lyoness@castlenet.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Youth Endurance Saddles
Message-ID: <19980118.032222.10662.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801162023.UAA11749@ns1.castlenet.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.15
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:23:57 EST
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 20:19:58 -0700 lyoness@castlenet.com (Joane Pappas
White) writes:
>A couple of issues ago, someone wrote that they had a youth endurance
>saddle
>for sale and would have it at the convention. Please contact me
>directly.
>
> My little friend Morgan, age 10, needs an endurance saddle. He is
>currectly riding in a 40 year old Hereford Saddle which is great for
>roping
>but has its limitations for distance.
>
>Today he commented that his knees were bothering him--something I
>thought
>was limited to we "older" riders. My knees kill me in my western
>saddle but
>never bother me in our endurance types.
The first thing I would check if someone's knees hurt is stirrup length.
My rule is, "If your knees hurt, let the stirrups down. If your thighs
hurt raise them." It could be that Morgan has had a growth spurt and
nobody has let them down.
2nd. I am in the process of finding a saddle for my daughter, 11, to do
endurance on her 13 hand Welsh pony. I went to American Saddlery here in
Chattanooga, and they loaned me a 13" tree. It fit the pony well. I
wish I could get 14" for the daughter, but the 14" bridged badly on the
pony. There are lots of backyard saddle shops in this part of the
country, and I have a fellow who is going to do an experiment for me.
We're going to take a standard western saddle seat and saw off the
horn. We'll mount English stirrup leathers, and have flaps on the side
like an English saddle. I think I'll use a dressage girth set up. The
billets may come from underneath, or be part of the flap.
I've had a lot of trouble with saddles for children because they are made
like little adult saddles. As an artist, I can tell you that a child is
"5 heads tall" while an adult is "7 heads tall" That means their legs
are much shorter in proportion to their bodies. That's why by the time a
child can reach the stirrups on his 12" pony saddle, he's ready for a
bigger saddle.
The English saddles will take up well, but offer little security. If
this actually works, and he is able to make it fairly inexpensively
(really shouldn't cost more than new kid saddles in catalog) we may try
to market a few.
I guess it will actually look like an Aussie without the polies. And I
hated those things when I posted.
Let me know what you settle on .
Angie McGhee
>
>WHICH SADDLES DO OUR JUNIOR RIDERS USE? I measured Morgan's saddle
>and it
>is a 13 inches western saddle. Please recommend a youth saddle for
>Morgan
>and Baby Tzar who has no withers.
>
>Thanks, Joane
>
>
>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 15:47:54 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Field trial rig .Posting photos
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One other reason your horse is unlikely to panic,or tangle,or fight
this thing in any way is that he will be.....content.(Except when you
ride off on his buddy-in which case he will pace around in a circle
instead of pawing,pulling,and rearing.). I think a lot of the contentment
is created by his ability to face in any direction he wants.They are prey
animals,after all.
Some folks have asked me to post photos. I have no way to do
this,but I can take some photos and mail 'em to someone who knows how .
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:13:36, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: youth saddles
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I have two juniors, age 10, and 13. They both ride English. My son, 13,
who is small, rides in a synthetic English saddle he loves. Cheapie from
State Line Tack. It will be a long time before he outgrows it, as it fits
adults as well. My daughter rides in a 13" or 14" leather English saddle
she has about outgrown. She loves the synthetic saddle.
*I would NOT reccommend aussies, or anything with a lot of "stuff" like
pommels, knee rolls, etc.
*Be sure to get a WIDE tree in the synthetics unless your horse is very
narrow. My son's horse is the narrowest we have, and the saddle wouldn't
fit any of our others, even with the "wide tree".
*Don't spend a lot of money on one! My daughter can't wait til she "stops
growing" so I will get her one like mine...a DeSoto saddle.
*What is comfortable for you may not be for them.
*Don't do the peacock stirrups routine! My son has ridden over 1000 miles
of competition in peacock stirrups...I rode in his saddle last week...YUK!
The band stretches so you stirrup is not level...it will stretch on the
outside...or inside..wherever the band is. Impossible to keep your leg
still. We are going to look into the trail tec stirrups with cover guard.
Hope this helps!
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
Home of Fa Al Badi+/
OK
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:16:44 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
cc: Endurance List <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: For vets, males, and stallion owners
In-Reply-To: <303b4e70.34bfdb1a@aol.com>
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, CMKSAGEHIL wrote:
> As I said in my original reply on this issue, I doubt that the firm, enlarged
> testicles in this case were caused by physical irritation, but rather by a
> transient infectious problem or some such...
Just to get this straight, they were not enlarged, they actually were
quite a bit smaller than usual, as if they had been "compacted" (same
amount of material in a smaller space, which probably contributed to their
"firmness").
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ac911d2d.34c1214b@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 16:23:21 EST
To: katswig@deltanet.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: For vets, males, and stallion owners
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Hi, Kat--
If your stallion's testicles actually seemed SMALLER, my next question is--was
this a cold day and were they just sucked up tight by the muscles in the
scrotum to keep warm? They can sure seem hard in that situation....]
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:54:29 -0700
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Linda -
I'm not sure this is so clear-cut. Throughout rural (as most of it is)
Montana, Universities, school systems and local governments are fighting
this issue right now. It's possible that urban centers have squelched the
idea already, but it is deep doodoo for locals here, and perhaps the best
approach is to ask your own server what the status of the issue is in your
area. Perhaps I am just an old jaded cynic, but I can tell you that I
would not put anything past our local telephone company. Mary
----------
> From: Linda B. Merims <lbm@ici.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
> Date: Saturday, January 17, 1998 12:09 PM
>
>
> On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Mary Burgess wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi Patrick -
> > You have the correct e-mail address. This is not a website, just a
> > special e-mail address to handle comments on the issue. If it did not
work
> > for you the first time, there may be a server glitch. Those are
usually
> > temporary, and will ultimately respond. We have had friends nationwide
use
> > this address successfully, so keep trying. Thanks for your interest,
Mary
>
> In case everybody hasn't heard yet, this is the latest chain-
> letter-urban-legend-virus circulating on the Internet. There
> was a proposal *last year* by the phone companies to charge
> *ISPs* for connect time, but that was rejected way back
> in the spring of '97.
>
> Linda B. Merims
> lbm@ici.net
> Massachusetts, USA
>
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To: paus@micoks.net
Cc: rides2far@juno.com, elsie@calweb.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: picket lines
Message-ID: <19980118.052844.3350.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980116195855.00b99a84@mail.micoks.net>
<3.0.1.32.19980116215848.00b9c478@mail.micoks.net>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:31:02 EST
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:58:48 -0600 Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net> writes:
>Me too. I don't really sleep much in camp. I always have one ear open
>for
>Star. And I think he does for me too. He talks to me during th e
>night.
>Once, however, I woke up in the middle of the night and checked on him
>and
>he had the rope wrapped around his legs. He was just standing there
>waiting
>for me to rescue him.
>
>I learned as a youngster, longer ago than I care to remember, how
>quickly
>horses get themselves, and us into trouble. When I was 14, I tied my
>horse
>to a picnic table on a concrete patio. BAD IDEA i found out in a split
>second.... She moved her head, the table scraped on the patio and made
>a
>bad noise, and the rest is history.... smashed picnic table, broken
>bridle,
We should all learn our lessons as youngsters. Like the time I had the
great idea to leave a pony tied to an old tire with about 20' of rope.
That way she could drag it around and eat. For some reason, I left her
out all night. She was recovered the next morning a mile from home
wrapped around a tree in someone's yard. (We lived in the suburbs). I
never did find the brushes that I had left stored inside the tire! :-)
Angie
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:44:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
X-Sender: lbm@klingon
To: Mary Burgess <mburgess@theglobal.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
In-Reply-To: <199801172144.QAA25472@kira.ici.net>
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Mary Burgess wrote:
> Linda -
> I'm not sure this is so clear-cut. Throughout rural (as most of it is)
> Montana, Universities, school systems and local governments are fighting
> this issue right now. It's possible that urban centers have squelched the
> idea already, but it is deep doodoo for locals here, and perhaps the best
> approach is to ask your own server what the status of the issue is in your
> area. Perhaps I am just an old jaded cynic, but I can tell you that I
> would not put anything past our local telephone company. Mary
Mary;
Local phone companies throughout the US wish to have the FCC
permit them to bill Internet Service Providers (ISPs) for
time access charges. They have petitioned the FCC on multiple
occasions for permission to do this. The FCC held an open
comment period on this proposed rule change last spring
and, I repeat, decided to *not* allow local phone companies
to do this.
But why should you believe me?
Go to the FCC's own web page. They are very well aware that
this chain-letter-urban-legend-virus is presently circulating
on the Internet and go to great lengths to try to explain
the past, present, and future state of this issue. To
quote just part of their web page:
"Please Note: There is no open comment period in this proceeding. If you
have recently seen a message on the Internet stating that in response to
a request from local telephone companies, the FCC is requesting comments
to <isp@fcc.gov> by February 1998, be aware that this information is
inaccurate."
To see the entire page, go to:
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html
You are correct that this is an issue that will keep coming up
and that people will need to watch for it and guard their interests.
However, at present there is no "wolf" at the door and we must all
be on guard against crying wolf until the wolf is really there.
None of which has anything to do with endurance riding. To
mimic rec.equestrian's OBH (obligatory horse mention), here's
an OBE: I'm going to the AERC convention in Lexington and
I hope to meet some of you there. Will there be any way
to recognize a fellow Ridecamper? Stephanie, will you be
having a booth there or something? Will there be a BOF
(birds of a feather) get together?
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:47:34, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Stubben for sale
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Will have a nice used Stubben for sale at the convention if anyone is
interested..e-mail for details..
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
Oklahoma
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:47:31, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: trailer for sale at convention
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We are taking a horse to Kentucky and we will have a WW two horse trailer
for sale at the AERC convention next Friday/Sat. Dark brown, enclosed, new
plexiglass, new sides inside, new ball bearings, new wiring. Good floor
and radial tires. Really nice functional trailer with a little rust on one
feeder door, feeder, and back.
Buy it at the convention so we don't have to haul it home empty 800 miles
and it is yours for $850!
e-mail if you are interested.
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
Oklahoma
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:47:42, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Equa-blu
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Finally! After two years of searching, I have found the makers of this
product in Canada! I first discovered Equa-blu at the XP ride. My
stallion had cut his coronet before the first day on the trailer. Norma
Birch had this stuff and we put it on and wrapped his foot. It was the
most amazing stuff I have ever seen as far as increasing healing time! He
went on to do three days of the ride completely sound (we didn't ride the
other two for various other reasons). I've never seen or heard of it since
until now.
It is mainly used as a poultice. Put it on your cotton wraps after a ride
and wrap overnight. It is wonderful for drawing out heat and infection.
You can even use it on people!
It comes as a powder and mixes to a half gallon with water and it will keep!
So, I ordered a case of the stuff...way too much for me..so I am taking it
to the convention to sell if anyone wants some. It is absolutely the most
amazing stuff I have come across (otherwise I'd NEVER get involved in
selling it). I'll have only 60 packets.
Better yet, the price! Without having to ship it to you, I'll have it for
only FIVE DOLLARS! It makes up a HALF GALLON!
I may just have the stuff at my room, so e-mail me if you have more
questions or want orders.
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Endurance Arabians
Oklahoma
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Connie DeJong" <cdejong@cisco.com>,
"Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Re: More on picket lines?
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 14:52:24 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd239a$93c2e100$6713c9cf@patfred>
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Connie,
I have 3/8" black nylon double core marine rope that is very tightly woven &
should have very little stretch to it.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: Connie DeJong <cdejong@cisco.com>
To: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Re: More on picket lines?
>Use a cowboy hard rope, that's what all the packers do. It's best to use
>the correct knots for this, you can find a book on horse packing in most
western tack stores that will describes the type of knots best suited for
picket lines.
>Might also be at the library, we keep ours in the camper so I don't have
the title handy.
>Connie
>
>>I also like using a picket line. Most lines/ropes I've tried have a
tendency
>>to stretch over a couple days. Has anyone found one that doesn't
stretch?
>>Cindy
>
>
>Connie DeJong 408 526-6117
>IOS Technologies Quality
>Cisco Systems / 170 W Tasman Dr. / San Jose / CA 95134-1706
>
>
>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:02:16 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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To: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
CC: Mary Burgess <mburgess@theglobal.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
References: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980117173223.24456A-100000@klingon>
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Dear Linda,
I don't think any local phone company anywhere in the US has the option to
override the FCC in this. They are the authorized and designated rule making body
for this issue and they have said no to everybody.
Do you know, or can you find out, which telephone company is trying to do this in
Montanna? If so, please forward that information to me soonest. I would be
interested in knowing so that I may pursue this issue with the FCC.
Thanks.
Bill
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7901e0ba.34c138f5@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:04:19 EST
To: bartesc@mail.auburn.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: beet pulp pellets
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I have been using beet pulp for years in the old days for
heavy horses but when i started competiting it was another
way to get moisture on the inside the flaked comes up
faster if you use pellets it takes longer and you should feel
it to make sure there are no lumps in it.
If your horses are used to beet pulp it is a good way of sneaking
medication in them I know they won't all be fooled , but it is a
90% er. I carry the flaked in the trailer for rides as I said it comes
up faster and I can make it fresh for each meal If you have never
used it start it at home a cup a meal each feeding
Marcy
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8aa531bd.34c13b3f@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 18:14:05 EST
To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com, katswig@deltanet.com, hikryrdg@evansville.net
Cc: patfred@snowcrest.net, step@fsr.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
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I agree rules are made to be broken many times
with a good reason I also find it depends on who
is breaking them Remember the squeaky wheel
gets the oil I'm easy, I don't say black is black
and white is white Lets go with the flow unless it
hurts someone It could be grey or cream I like
keep KIS s Keep it simple but not stupid there
must be a better word then stupid
Marcy
=US-ASCII
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Reply-To: <@internetwis.com>
From: "katie ruckel" <ruck@internetwis.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: ABC's grain ratio
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:21:30 -0600
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Has anyone been feeding ABC's (Advanced Biological Concepts) grain ratio
or perhaps it's actually Harmany Grain Mix. I have been feeding Omolene
100in the winter and 200 in the summer, but keep hearing not to feed sweet
feed. However,know one seems to give me a definitive answer on what to
feed. I was
wondering if this ABC mix would be better than Omolene.
Thanks for the input.
Katie Ruckel
www.ruck@internetwis.com
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:00:52 -0600
To: guest@endurance.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Arab Hater!!! KILL THEM ALL!
In-Reply-To: <199801171732.JAA08584@fsr.com>
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Do let us know her name. I have a friend who sells horses over the Net and
often does not know the buyer, except what they tell her over email.
chris
At 09:32 AM 1/17/98 -0800, guest@endurance.net wrote:
>
>
>PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
>You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
>
>From: debbie Zanot
>Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
>
>I was reading all the wonderful stories posted about Arabs being bought
cheap and becoming treasures to their owners. I have a few like that
myself. I look for those Arabians that people buy and you know darn well
they will never understand them, because Arabians are different..
>Loretta Wazelle told me that there is a awful Arab hating woman near where
she lives that seeks out these Arabs specifically to sell them to the
Killers. This woman poses as a caring buyer, but will not buy Arabs that
are poor because she can't get good meat prices..A friend of mine was going
to sell one of his horses and it is a good thing I warned him about this
woman , because she answered his add..If I had her name I would plaster it
in capitol letters..I will ask Loretta, but meantime anyone in the Ohio
area interested in looking some of these horses over before they go to an
awful death should call this idiot..Maybe we could hang her eh?
>I have to many horses to even go look..but I am sure there has to be
someone out there..Next time I post I will have her name and phone #
>
>
>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:04:22 -0600
To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34C1022A.4617@worldnet.att.net>
References: <3.0.1.32.19980116195855.00b99a84@mail.micoks.net>
<3.0.1.32.19980116215848.00b9c478@mail.micoks.net>
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He was a brave guy and probably a horse whisperer kind of guy. He had a
very upset mare calmed down by the time I got there and walked her calmly
across the highway with just his belt around her neck! I was impressed. And
needless to say, ever since have been careful about how and where I tie a
horse!!
chris paus & star (who usually groundties except today when he was feeling
good because it was the first warm day in a while)
At 11:10 AM 1/17/98 -0800, you wrote:
>... smashed picnic table, broken bridle,
>> runaway horse on a busy road...I still wish I could thank that guy who
>> jumped out of his car adn threw his arms around her neck and wrestled her
>> to a stop!
>
>
>Didn't D. Wayne Lukas' son try that with Tabasco Cat a few years ago and
>get badly trampled for his troubles? I hear he's still in physical
>therapy and has permanant brain damage. Brave of the your guy that got
>your horse back for you---I sure wouldn't have tried it myself!
>
>Susan
>
>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:09:23 -0600
To: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>, bartesc@mail.auburn.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: beet pulp pellets
In-Reply-To: <7901e0ba.34c138f5@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I just tried feeding some beet pulp to my old guy today. He would have
nothing to do with it, and he is usually a pig and eats everything.
chris paus & cisco (lame, but hanging in there)
At 06:04 PM 1/17/98 EST, RICMARC wrote:
>I have been using beet pulp for years in the old days for
>heavy horses but when i started competiting it was another
>way to get moisture on the inside the flaked comes up
>faster if you use pellets it takes longer and you should feel
>it to make sure there are no lumps in it.
>If your horses are used to beet pulp it is a good way of sneaking
>medication in them I know they won't all be fooled , but it is a
>90% er. I carry the flaked in the trailer for rides as I said it comes
>up faster and I can make it fresh for each meal If you have never
>used it start it at home a cup a meal each feeding
>
>Marcy
>
>
>
t, 17 Jan 1998 17:10:11 -0800 (PST)
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <728e305.34c16d25@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:46:58 EST
To: Marinera@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Keep It Simple, last time
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I finally started deleting all the postings about ride time without reading
them because I was so sick of hearing about it. I saw this "last time"
posting and had to read it since I knew it was from you, Julie. You have
again said all there is to say about this subject. Thank you again.
Debby Lyon
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f624ae05.34c16d20@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:46:54 EST
To: rayo@cfw.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Field Trial Stake-out Rig vs. Picket Lines
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Can you draw me a picture??
Debby
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:37:53 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: Stiff hose
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The hose must be STIFF-too stiff too wrap around anything smaller
than a....trash can,say.
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:15:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
X-Sender: lbm@klingon
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
In-Reply-To: <34C13878.8B2D56E5@peop.tds.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.96.980117221516.25382B-100000@klingon>
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On Sat, 17 Jan 1998, Bill & Dee Fortner wrote:
>
> Dear Linda,
> I don't think any local phone company anywhere in the US has the option to
> override the FCC in this. They are the authorized and designated rule making body
> for this issue and they have said no to everybody.
> Do you know, or can you find out, which telephone company is trying to do this in
> Montanna? If so, please forward that information to me soonest. I would be
> interested in knowing so that I may pursue this issue with the FCC.
I give up.
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:19:47 -0500
From: Lyn Kamer <MUSTANGRDR@worldnet.att.net>
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To: Ridecamp - Endurance Riders Forum <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Stallions
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Yes, they do use jock straps on harness horses. I rode an ex-race horse
stallion of a friend of mine and she used one of the straps on him. It
worked well except that I had problems with it chaffing him where sand
and dirt got under the crupper piece. IMHO it's probably better to not
use one unless you have to after all the aggravation I went through
using one.
Lyn Kamer, C.E.S.M.T, and my Mustangs, the girls: PC and Star
The Healing Touch of New Jersey
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Message-ID: <34C175AD.1278@idt.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:23:25 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Rescue Remedy
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I'd like to hear from those of you who use the rescue remedy.....how
much it actually works, if any....
do you mix with feed or dose over the tongue? How much...how often?
thxs,
tracy
t.net>
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:23:25 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:30:27 -0600 (CST)
From: "Lucie A. Hess" <lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu>
X-Sender: lhess01@coinc0
To: "Marcus R. Hoff" <mrhoff@srv.net>
cc: "ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: One fine portable corral]
In-Reply-To: <34C049BC.85B5BC5C@srv.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980117212657.17812B-100000@coinc0>
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I have seen this system on several different occasions and I have compared
it to others, I would really put this system on my must have list if I was
looking for a Pen. Monte Mitts' pen is a close second only because I
believe I would have problems with my sore back in pounding in the posts.
Lucie Hess
Columbia, Missouri
Chief Black Arrow -retired Appy
Moonhill Dandi -current mount- 7/8 Arab
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:45:49 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: zebella@idt.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Rescue Remedy
References: <34C175AD.1278@idt.net>
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Zebella wrote:
>
> do you mix with feed or dose over the tongue? How much...how often?
I put a few drops in a small spray bottle filled with water. I spray it
(fine mist) near her face/nose.
Lauren
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:59:42 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Becky Hackworth <bechack@flash.net>
Subject: Keep It Simple, last time
How many times have you actually been overtime because of
>factors over which you had no control? It has never happened to me in thirty-
>four years of endurance riding so I guess I am about due. I hope when it does
>that I can be as understanding as I seem to be asking all of you to be. If
>not, you can point your fingers and I will cry "uncle" . 12 hours for a 50
>and 24 hours for 100, "total elapsed time", has been the understood time limit
>since the first hundred miler (1955) and fifty miler (1966)were staged. It
>works well with rare exceptions. We do not need rules for rare exceptions.
>We take our lumps and come back next year. Julie
>
>
>And this from a woman whose horses got loose during the night at Death
Valley, caught said horses, started ride late, and still finished well
within time!!!!
>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:12:03 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801180412.UAA18810@fsr.com>
Subject: Does anyone have a pic. of a very obese horse... I want to use it as a gag
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Jake
Email: pop@aol.com
I want to put it under a <Humours>card for my friend. I want it to be a real pic, and I want it to be obvious that the horse is overweight.
Please Post it below or put a link to where I can SEE it and print it out. DO NOT E-mail it to me, I am very concerened about viruses!
Thanks,
Jake
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:13:22 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801180413.UAA19230@fsr.com>
Subject: Does anyone have a pic. of a very obese horse... I want to use it as a gag
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Jake
Email: pop@aol.com
I want to put it under a <Humours>card for my friend. I want it to be a real pic, and I want it to be obvious that the horse is overweight.
Please Post it below or put a link to where I can SEE it and print it out. DO NOT E-mail it to me, I am very concerened about viruses!
Thanks,
Jake
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:19:38 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801180419.UAA19733@fsr.com>
Subject: Does anyone have a pic. of a very obese horse... I want to use it as a gag
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Jake
Email: pop@aol.com
I want to put it under a <Humours>card for my friend. I want it to be a real pic, and I want it to be obvious that the horse is overweight.
Please Post it below or put a link to where I can SEE it and print it out. DO NOT E-mail it to me, I am very concerened about viruses!
Thanks,
Jake
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Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:29:53 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Bill & Dee Fortner" <wfortner@peop.tds.net>,
"Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
Cc: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: FCC examines potential for e-mail charges!
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:07:33 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd23be$38aa86a0$LocalHost@duncanfl>
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This thread has no remote relationship to endurance or the operation of
ridecamp. The fact that it is computer related does not qualify. I can
download several hundred messages a day from
microsoft.public.interenet.explorer.outlook express about e-mail programs. I
have no idea how many more if I added sites for the other e-mail programs.
We could also debate the merits of public policy that effect the price of
computers and software. But while it may have some impact on the cost of
reading ridecamp, it is not directly related.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Kim" <aliakey@geocities.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 19:30:47 -0800
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The current requirement by USFS is to tie stock at least 200 feet from
water, and please do follow the rest of the advice about being responsible
back country stock users.
This is not the only post about nylon not stretching. I hate to tell you
otherwise, but nylon is the stretchiest material used to make rope (well
excuding bungee cord material). Now I am referring to the stretch of fiber
not the rearrangement of the fibers which is more related to construction
(braid, twist, etc.) - and it immediately returns to its original length
when the load is removed if it has not been overloaded. You want to minimize
stetch, use polyester unless you want to get real exoctic and use kevlar. If
you want good information about rope, go visit a marine supply store - they
will probably have booklets on various fibers and construction techniques
(just don't expect to find the hard lay of lariat rope).
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Kim <aliakey@geocities.com>
>[snip]
>Anyway, nylon didn't stretch much, and we always tied a "modified"
>bowline on one end to allow for a quick release if needed
>[snip]
>
>And, as a final note (from someone who would like to see horse trails
>around for many years), please select a picket area that is rather bare
>of vegetation already (don't want to have the Forest Service angry for
>destructive, pawing horses tearing up the plant life), spread out or
>remove manure, and tie your line at least 100 feet or more from open
>water sources (creeks, streams, lakes, etc.). Just my two bits, as
>usual.
>
>Kim (and ohhhh-nosebags-yumm) 'Lee
>
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 20:31:05 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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> I'd like to hear from those of you who use the rescue remedy.....how
> much it actually works, if any....
> do you mix with feed or dose over the tongue? How much...how often?
> tracy
Tracy:
I used Rescue Remedy last year to help Gabe get over an intense,
long-ingrained fear of trailering. I found I had to double the dose - or
triple it - 6-8 drops on a sugar cube. Then he began to associate a
sugar cube with potential trailering....so he would spit it out! (is
this horse smart, or what!). I would then just *try* to drop it on his
tounge.
What I found out is this:
1)Try to give the Rescue Remedy 30 - 40 minutes prior to come to full
effect......
2)If sugar cube is spit out, it can still be brushed off, inserted
between clinched teeth, and rubbed on gums
3) Rescue Remedy works wonders for the driver, too!
Good luck!
--
Deanne Del Vecchio and Gabe~~I *knew* you were trying to pull one over
on me....I never got sugar cubes at any *other* time!
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 21:17:16 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
Reply-To: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Endurance List <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: What vet checks are for (was:Completion times)
In-Reply-To: <v03007807b0e57bbed611@[204.162.114.203]>
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On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Kathy Myers wrote:
> I used to think hold times should not be included in
> total time, but I've changed my mind. I think they
> should continue to be included in the total time
> allowed. And I think that 6, 12, and 24 hours are
> good values for 25, 50, and 100 miles respectively.
I not only think that they should be included in the total time allowed, I
think they should be included in the ride time published as part of the
official results.
_I_ would like to dispel the notion that we have vet checks at endurance
rides so that horses can rest. This assumes that ride managers and/or
vets are responsible for resting our horses. As far as I am concerned,
vet checks are so that the vets can inspect the horses to confirm that
they are "fit to continue."
Horses must meet criteria before being presented to the vet, because the
vet needs to see the horse after it has "recovered." And there is a
hold time in order to make it fair to all competitors (so that the time
spent seeing the vet and waiting to see the vet are the same for all
competitors). We have a one hour "lunch" hold so that vets can see the
horses AFTER they have had a chance to rest, adrenaline levels to drop,
and impending problems to manifest themselves.
Riders are responsible for resting their horses, and they are
responsible for resting their horses when their horses need to rest
(there is nothing in the rules that says riders cannot rest their horse
whenever they want to). This is in keeping with the AERC policy (and
rule) that says riders and riders alone are responsible for their horses
throughout the course of the ride.
If more riders, ride managers, and vets kept this in mind during the
ride, the whole problem of tough rides having more vet checks so that
the horses can rest would go away. It is absolutely silly to assume
that all horses need to rest for the same amount of time at the same
place along the trail. Horses of differing conditions as well as having
differing aptitudes need rest at differing intervals as do those having
riders of differing capabilities.
Vet checks ought to be placed along the ride course (with the
understanding that accessibility is a major factor in many cases) in
places where allowing a horse that is not "fit to continue" to continue
would endanger the well being of the horse (e.g. you want to put a vet
check just before a section of trail that is difficult and inaccessible
so that horses that will get in trouble far away from any assistance are
pulled from the ride before they get to this area). It is not up to
ride management to rate the horses in the ride by planning vet checks in
order to slow down the riders and rest the horses. Rating the horse is
the responsibility of the rider and the rider alone.
As a perfect example of this:
A number of years ago, I did the Malibu ride which has a very difficult
climb up a very steep hill after the lunch break in the heat of the day
with virtually no shade. At the top of this hill is a vet check. As we
are climbing up this hill we come to a small shady spot. The person I
am riding with decides to stop in the shade to rest her horse. I
continue on, figuring to rest my horse at the vet check, where I am
required to rest...and to go slowly up the rest of the hill (thinking
that this is rest enough and I didn't want to lose/waste the time along
the trail). I get to the vet check, it takes quite a while for my over
heated horse to recover. The rider behind me, who stopped to rest half
way up comes into the vet check, quickly meets criteria and is on her
way...DOWN the hill, which both horses did easily.
This story demonstrates several things:
Sometimes, the best place to rest your horse is not the vet check.
Smart riders know this and rest their horses when their horses need to
rest.
The vet check was not where it was so the horses could best rest. It
was at the TOP of a hill. As far as I am concerned, going down hill is
almost as good as resting, so resting just before you start down hill is
not the best place to make horses rest. The vet check was where it was
so that the vets could check to see that going up the hill did not take
too much out of the horse (I also think that accessibility might have
had something to do with it).
However, all horses DO get to rest at vet checks (different horses reap
different benefits from this rest time, true but unavoidable); therefore,
hold time should be considered part of ride time...and as far as I am
concerned, should be reported as such. I believe that it is total elapsed
time that ought to be reported in official results so that we can dispense
with this myth entirely that it is taking less than the total elapsed time
to cover the course. If that were the case a one-day 100 and a two-day
100 would be the same thing. That 12 hours of rest in the middle of the
two-day 100 doesn't count right??? Don't be silly; of course it counts.
Just as the 1 hour at the mid-ride vet check counts.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 00:26:21 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Susanw@exactimaging.com (susan)
Subject: disturbing trend?
Occasionally I post to get opinions or just yack, and on occasion I get
nasty personal reply's. If it isn't nice enough to post to the group then
don't send it to a personal mail box. it is an open form for us to talk or
debate issues, if some of you can't tolerate an opinion other than your
own, why be on the list?. On the postive side many, many thanks to the
majority who have answered questions and made this list fun. Sorry to be
non-horsey.
Susan & the outward expanding mares. (is that a blimp in the pasture?)
Oregon, U.S.A.
A canter is a cure for every evil.
Benjamin Disraeli
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From: "Glenn Foster" <gfoste19@idt.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Arabian "S" bit
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:02:40 -0500
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<<
There is a wonderful hackamore type that is perfect for the endurance or
trail
rider. It's called the Arabian S bit. ...
>>
Hey, thats what I'm using with my new little guy! I picked it cause that's
what the tack
shop had with short shanks the morning I decided to upgrade from a lead
rope
on the halter. Can you tell me what the "S" shape of the shanks is for ?
Also I cut
off the wire between the shanks (looked like it might cut a chin on a bad
day), and replaced
it with a shoestring. Is there anything "scientific" about the "S" curves
and having the
shanks fastened together ?
Glenn
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From: "Glenn Foster" <gfoste19@idt.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Arabian "S" bit
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:02:40 -0500
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<<
There is a wonderful hackamore type that is perfect for the endurance or
trail
rider. It's called the Arabian S bit. ...
>>
Hey, thats what I'm using with my new little guy! I picked it cause that's
what the tack
shop had with short shanks the morning I decided to upgrade from a lead
rope
on the halter. Can you tell me what the "S" shape of the shanks is for ?
Also I cut
off the wire between the shanks (looked like it might cut a chin on a bad
day), and replaced
it with a shoestring. Is there anything "scientific" about the "S" curves
and having the
shanks fastened together ?
Glenn
5929 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002724 06460416125 0013123 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from home.humboldt1.com (home.humboldt1.com [206.13.45.1]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA06758 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:14:25 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Eric & Gail Hought" <hought@humboldt1.com>
To: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: AERC Convention/BioThane Tack
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:24:20 -0800
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I would like to invite everyone attending the AERC convention next week to
visit us at our booth. (Hought Endurance Tack, Booth #9) We have a large
supply of BioThane tack and some very nice and interesting leather tack,
along with some other endurance related items.
I'm going to be updating our web page with our new catalog soon, but it may
after the convention. If you would like one now, just email me with your
address.
Gail Hought and "Shaq"(primary endurance horse) & "Emma"(new back up horse;
you know one of those horses you don't need or have time for if you have
them, and that you need desperately if don't have them.)
hought@humboldt1.com
http://www.hought.com
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 07:19:56 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801181519.HAA07299@fsr.com>
Subject: Anyone have a pic of a very fat horse?....I wana use it as a gag.
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Jake
Email: pop@aol.com
I Have a friend who loves horses and I'm sure this below the card will make her laugh. I need it to be a real pic, not a drawing or a cartoon. I need it to be obvious that the horse is overweight, I don't care if it is B&W or color.
If you have one or know where I can find one DO NOT email it to me, I am very concerened about viruses, and this isn't my computer! Please put it below in the Image url, a link, or just tell me where it can be found.
Thanks,
Jake
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:00:15 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801181600.IAA08596@fsr.com>
Subject: Used Patriot Saddle Wanted
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Susan Cornes
Email: jpcornes@aol.com
I am posting this for a friend. She is looking for a used Ortho-Flex Patriot saddle, 16". Please contact Lila at 505.281.5626 or email me at jpcornes@aol.com.
5932 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002753 06460425060 0013115 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from consider.theneteffect.com (consider.theneteffect.com [206.202.56.3]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09213 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:13:31 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:11:41 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: ride food
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Since my first appeal, posted on Jan 1, only garnered 4 replies with one
food each, I am assuming (hoping?) it simply got lost in your collective
holiday email backlogs and was deleted without being read first. <g> I
actually got more "I'm so glad you're asking this question" replies than
I did answers. :(
So, here's the deal: I'm looking for suggestions of good foods to eat
just before and during a ride -- things that will stick to your ribs
without upsetting your tummy, things that keep well, pack well, etc. I'll
collect the responses and put them in a FAQ that maybe Steph could post on
endurance.net. So far this is what I have:
pop tarts
cold milk
applesauce & mandarin orange slices
Honey Peanut Balance bar
Oh, yes, Tracy said to be sure and NOT eat "hotter than hot" enchiladas :)
So? Favorite foods or simple recipes, please!
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 09:37:38 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
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Subject: Re: ride food
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If it is cold, hot soup is nice (pack in a thermos) but this means that
you either have to have it heated up in the morning before you leave, or
be lucky enough to have a pit crew that can warm it at the hold for you.
if it's hot, then watermelon chunks and grapes are good.
I usually carry a granola or cereal bar in my saddle bag. I learned
the hard way that bannanas do NOT travel well :)) Oranges are nice to
carry, but very irritating if you can't rinse your hands off afterwards.
anyhow, thats all I can think of......
t
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:58:52 -0800
From: "Patrick E. Allen" <jfhr@inet1.inetworld.net>
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To: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980118100412.14865D-100000@consider.theneteffect.com>
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Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
> Since my first appeal, posted on Jan 1, only garnered 4 replies with one
> food each, I am assuming (hoping?) it simply got lost in your collective
> holiday email backlogs and was deleted without being read first. <g> I
> actually got more "I'm so glad you're asking this question" replies than
> I did answers. :(
>
> So, here's the deal: I'm looking for suggestions of good foods to eat
> just before and during a ride -- things that will stick to your ribs
> without upsetting your tummy, things that keep well, pack well, etc. I'll
> collect the responses and put them in a FAQ that maybe Steph could post on
> endurance.net. So far this is what I have:
>
> pop tarts
> cold milk
> applesauce & mandarin orange slices
> Honey Peanut Balance bar
>
> Oh, yes, Tracy said to be sure and NOT eat "hotter than hot" enchiladas :)
>
> So? Favorite foods or simple recipes, please!
>
> Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
Good Morning
There is a product call Balance The Complete Nutritional Food Bar. I am a
Diabetic, It does have sugar in it but it can be used by Diabetics. I got
this product as a sample from the Diabetes educator at the Hospital.
They are available at Wal-Mart, at $.99 cents each ! Do not buy them any
place else or you will pay almost $2.00 a piece for them.
Pat
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<HTML>
<P>Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Since my first appeal, posted on Jan 1, only garnered
4 replies with one
<BR>food each, I am assuming (hoping?) it simply got lost in your collective
<BR>holiday email backlogs and was deleted without being read first. <g>
I
<BR>actually got more "I'm so glad you're asking this question" replies
than
<BR>I did answers. :(
<P>So, here's the deal: I'm looking for suggestions of good foods
to eat
<BR>just before and during a ride -- things that will stick to your ribs
<BR>without upsetting your tummy, things that keep well, pack well, etc.
I'll
<BR>collect the responses and put them in a FAQ that maybe Steph could
post on
<BR>endurance.net. So far this is what I have:
<P>pop tarts
<BR>cold milk
<BR>applesauce & mandarin orange slices
<BR>Honey Peanut Balance bar
<P>Oh, yes, Tracy said to be sure and NOT eat "hotter than hot" enchiladas
:)
<P>So? Favorite foods or simple recipes, please!
<P>Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)</BLOCKQUOTE>
Good Morning
<P>There is a product call <I><U>Balance</U></I> The Complete Nutritional
Food Bar. I am a Diabetic, It does have sugar in it but it
can be used by Diabetics. I got this product as a sample from the
Diabetes educator at the Hospital.
<P>They are available at Wal-Mart, at $.99 cents each <B>!</B> Do
not buy them any place else or you will pay almost $2.00 a piece
for them.
<P>Pat</HTML>
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 08:57:01 -0800
To: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: Re: ride food
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980118100412.14865D-100000@consider.thenetef
fect.com>
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>So? Favorite foods or simple recipes, please!
Hi Glenda:
Well, as with anything related to endurance...everybody seems to like
different types of food. With me, I am always changing what I want. That's
why, when I come into camp my husband always waits until I am there to ask
"what do you want to eat". He learned a long time ago that whatever he
would 'assume' I would want and he'd make ahead..that I wouldn't touch it.
These are things I like to carry with me in my saddle pack or pockets:
Beef jerky
Licorice
Peanuts/cashews/honey rusted peanuts
Gu (definitely my favorite!)
Small sized power bars
Carrots
Apples
For eating in camp:
Cup of soup (just have to heat up water that way)
leftover bbq'd pork chops
Pickles
Ensure (meal in a can)
Bananas
Oranges
Peanut butter sandwiches
Saltine crackers w/ cheddar cheese
Tuna salad sandwich
Kern's juices: banana/strawberry & apricot
Cookies
Yogurt
Thermo-T
Cytomax
Fruit cup
Applesauce (which also gets used to mix electrolytes)
That's about it. Usually, the only thing that really keeps me going is
having several Gu's...otherwise, I don't eat enough.
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Dream Weaver
& Rocky...we're going riding today!
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:34:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
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To: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: beet pulp pellets
In-Reply-To: <7901e0ba.34c138f5@aol.com>
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> 90% er. I carry the flaked in the trailer for rides as I said it comes
> up faster and I can make it fresh for each meal If you have never
> used it start it at home a cup a meal each feeding
Hi Marcy,
You must have me confused with another poster. I have been using beet pulp
for about 5 years now and I love it. When I first bought it, I thought it
only came in pellets, but realized about a year later that it also came in
flakes. Mostly we get the pellets and for me it's no problem to soak for
the required amount of time before it's ok to use.
I think that someone on here, Susan G? maybe that said there should be no
ill effects for the horse to eat it without soaking in some instances?
I'm not sure, don't do that personally, but have had a friends mare get
into her beet pulp pellets--dry--and she was fine after eating some. She
loves it wet, but didn't get so gung ho on the dry though.
Just some thoughts.
thanks for the post
samm and the Apps who will eat anything if it isn't going to eat them
first!!
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:40:14 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
X-Sender: bartesc@mallard
To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
cc: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: beet pulp pellets
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980117190923.00ba5594@mail.micoks.net>
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> I just tried feeding some beet pulp to my old guy today. He would have
> nothing to do with it, and he is usually a pig and eats everything.
>
Hi Chris,
Try giving him just a tiny handful in his normal grain feeding...a bit at
a time and he should get to the point where he loves it. I have had a few
horses not seem to care for it for a few feedings, but now they are PIGS
for it. I have also had some just about kill me to get to it the first
time they tasted it!!
Heck, it took me about 28 years to learn to like Broccoli, now I love the
stuff!!
samm--gimme greens
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:09:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
X-Sender: bartesc@mallard
To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Field Trial stake out
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>walk around to ease his aches & pains?Can you put your set-up in place
>instantly in an emergency,anywhere? Build a Field Trial Stake-out. Your
>horse will thank you.
Hi Raymond!!
I use this system with my dogs, well not quite SO elaborate, but basically
the same thing. It works great!! You are right that they don't get
tangled, it pulls out of the ground with some work, but not easy enough
that a dog has ever pulled it out.
I know several people who stake out their horses and it works great for
them. I guess it's all how you train at home as someone here already
said.
I saw a horse get badly injured at a ride from a steel paneled corral, and
as has been pointed out, horses will/can hurt themselves from just about
any enclosure.
I use either picket, tie to trailer, or electric fence. I work with them
at home on all this before I ever go to a ride. It's not that quiet at my
place either. 100 feet from busy highway on one side, less than that to a
railroad tracks the other way. It's very busy there. There is also crop
dusters during planting time. So, my guys get broke to a lot of "noise"
and such. It still doesn't keep them from spooking at some stuff, even
things they are used to at home--DEER for one:-)--but it does help to have
them exposed to as many situations as possible. I take them to the
railroad crossing to get used to the bells, ding-dings, lights, and
crossing arms. It gives me peace of mind. Helps some in the long run
too.
samm
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From: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:13:30 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
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If you have a Dehydrator you can make tried apples, bananas, peaches....
Simone Jordon
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From: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon)
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 12:23:04 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Rescue Remedy
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What is Rescue Remedy?
Simone Jordon
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:44:38 -0800
From: Kim <aliakey@geocities.com>
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To: Duncan Fletcher <dfletche@gte.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: More on picket lines?
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Duncan Fletcher wrote:
>
> The current requirement by USFS is to tie stock at least 200 feet from
> water, and please do follow the rest of the advice about being responsible
> back country stock users.
>
> This is not the only post about nylon not stretching. I hate to tell you
> otherwise, but nylon is the stretchiest material used to make rope (well
> excuding bungee cord material). Now I am referring to the stretch of fiber
> not the rearrangement of the fibers which is more related to construction
> (braid, twist, etc.) - and it immediately returns to its original length
> when the load is removed if it has not been overloaded. You want to minimize
> stetch, use polyester unless you want to get real exoctic and use kevlar. If
> you want good information about rope, go visit a marine supply store - they
> will probably have booklets on various fibers and construction techniques
> (just don't expect to find the hard lay of lariat rope).
>
> Duncan Fletcher
> dfletche@gte.net
>
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The 100 ft versus 200 ft requirements may differ for our particular
areas. As one ridecamper mentioned in an email to me, "Is there any
place in the eastern Sierras that is more than 100' from an open water
source??? :)".
We received personal instruction from the FS that 100 ft is fine, as
long as it is obvious that your picketing area does not slope as to
allow runoff to hit the creeks or lakes (of which there are plenty). If
they said "200 ft" for picketing, then using stock in the wilderness
would be very difficult.
Should this wilderness be "stock prohibited" then because of the sheer
number of lakes and creeks? I hope I don't have to answer that some
day, but I can assure many that several "non-profit" protection
organizations who would rather see pack stock eliminated did go out and
take water samples, etc. for analysis in those water sources. The water
results obviously did not incriminate pack stock, as they are still
there and packers just don't have any lobbying power ;-)
As far as rope is concerned, I also know that nylon is pretty stretchy.
However, I guess I failed to include in my orginal post that pack
outfits are notoriusly *cheap*! Nylon rope is very inexpensive compared
to other ropes for what it provides and its *longitivity*. Just can't
afford Kevlar (g). I stand corrected, and my appologies if I misled
anyone on the properties of nylon.
Anyway, thank you Duncan for letting us know the USFS requirements as
they usually stand. I have never packed anywhere outside of the East
Sierras, so my knowledge of other states pretty much non-existant ('cept
of course, the thing about "seed-free hay"). I think 200 feet is a
better distance myself, anyway! So, I guess the "Golden Rule" of
picketing is to stop by the USFS office to get the local information
first.
Kim
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:52:18 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801181852.KAA17501@fsr.com>
Subject: Canyon De Chelly Ride
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Kandhy Franklin-Collins
Email: ridecamp@endurance.net
Sorry this is last second, however I just received a call from Justin Tso who is the Navajo group leader of the rides in Canyon De Chelly. He will be here in San Diego, Sunday Jan 18 at 7 p.m. at my home....This will really be a surprise to my husband, as he thinks we'll be having a quiet evening at home! If you are interested in a ride in this area, seeing the Navajo art, seeing a video of the area, you are welcome to my home with as snack to share. There is pleanty of parking. Call me (619) 444-4996 if interested. The ride that I'm planning will be during Easter Break. (This is politically inncorrect I know)
Thanks, see you on the trail.
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id rma029533; Sun Jan 18 16:02:56 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: dressage & vosals....
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
I couldn't agree more with Heidi on her following comments. For those
of you using vosels and hackamores....have your horses already learned
these basic dressage-type lessons? Can you teach them using a vosel or
hackamore? Can they collect into one of these when you are using your
leg and seat?
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab..."hey, it might rain, why are you riding
me!")
++++++++
From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:31:17 EST
In a message dated 98-01-16 23:16:24 EST, you write:
I guess I missed Lucy's original post. I think one of the biggest
mistakes endurance riders make is NOT to be doing dressage training
right along with endurance conditioning. Dressage teaches a horse to
round his back, assisting him in carrying your weight all those miles.
It teaches him to utilize his gaits more completely and more freely.
It gives you and your horse basic and intimate communication skills.
From my vantage point as ride veterinarian I see all too many horses
that are fit but performing well below their capabilities simply
because they have never been taught "the basics". I don't
ride rides in a bit most of the time, but all of my horses start out in
snaffles and "graduate" to the bitless state when they are old hands.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
++++++++++++++++
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:29:02 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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To: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: What vet checks are for (was:Completion times)
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K S Swigart wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, Kathy Myers wrote:
>
> > I used to think hold times should not be included in
> > total time, but I've changed my mind. I think they
> > should continue to be included in the total time
> > allowed. And I think that 6, 12, and 24 hours are
> > good values for 25, 50, and 100 miles respectively.
>
> I not only think that they should be included in the total time allowed, I
> think they should be included in the ride time published as part of the
> official results.
>
> _I_ would like to dispel the notion that we have vet checks at endurance
> rides so that horses can rest. This assumes that ride managers and/or
> vets are responsible for resting our horses. As far as I am concerned,
> vet checks are so that the vets can inspect the horses to confirm that
> they are "fit to continue."
>
Yes, it is the responsibility of the riders to see that their horses
gets enough rest during the competition based on their fitness level,
but from a realistic point of view, very few riders who are in a
competitive mode will stop along the trail to rest their horse during
the competition unless their horse is experiencing a problem.
From my perspective the vet checks are to allow the horses to be checked
by the vets to determine if they are fit to continue, AND to give the
horse a break where there is water and, often times, hay, grain and
carrots for the horses.
> The vet check was not where it was so the horses could best rest. It
> was at the TOP of a hill. As far as I am concerned, going down hill is
> almost as good as resting, so resting just before you start down hill is
> not the best place to make horses rest. The vet check was where it was
> so that the vets could check to see that going up the hill did not take
> too much out of the horse (I also think that accessibility might have
> had something to do with it).
>
The location of the vet checks is most often determined by
accessibility. But whether the rest for the horse is at the middle of a
climb, or just before a downhill, the horse is still going to benefit
from the rest.
> However, all horses DO get to rest at vet checks (different horses reap
> different benefits from this rest time, true but unavoidable); therefore,
> hold time should be considered part of ride time...and as far as I am
> concerned, should be reported as such. I believe that it is total elapsed
> time that ought to be reported in official results so that we can dispense
> with this myth entirely that it is taking less than the total elapsed time
> to cover the course.
I would prefer the ride time only be listed, since that gives the reader
the knowledge of how tough the course is by seeing the riding time,
rather than trying to guess how much of that was hold time if the
elapsed time were given.
Terry Woolley Howe
od values for 25, 50, and 100 miles respectively.
>
> I not only think that they should be included in the total time allowed, I
> think they should be included in the ride time published as part of the
> official results.
>
> _I_ would like to dispel the notion that we have vet checks at endurance
> rides so that horses can rest. This assumes that ride manag5945 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000007600 06460501551 0013115 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.11]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA26489 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 14:34:12 -0800 (PST)
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id rma006832; Sun Jan 18 16:31:30 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: excited horses....comments on competion times
To: ridecamp@endurance.net.Regarding.excitable.horses.I've.found.the.more.confident.I.have
the less intimidating the excited horse has become to me, the better
able I am to control him. I gained my confidence by: starting the
horse in an arena, graduating to lots of slow trail and with other,
strange horses, and finally to LD controlled races. This is a
logincal good route to follow. It all takes time, patience and an open
mind to learning. Preparing a green horse to take the trail and an
excitable situation under control is nothing that can be or should be
rushed.
One of the best things I've done was find other ridecampers to go
out with. Moving my horse to easily accessable trails was also
required. I am a boarder, so I had to move him further from my home,
but having private and public trails right near his ranch helped
tremendously. Having knowledgeable and patient, plus kind, people on
the ranch and as riding partners has been a Godsend.
You want to teach the youngster it is ok to move out, and not
reprimand it for moving out, at the same time balance it with going
back down to the walk when asked. The arena is always a good place to
start this. It will be on trail rides with other horses that the
younster will reveal its excitment level when it sees groups going out,
or disappearing around corners. An endurance race is not the place to
judge this. I know, I couldn't control Mystery at our first ride.
There was a spot where the trail went down a steep slope and turned a
corner. He saw those horses racing around the corner out of sight,
took control and ran down that hill, slightly spraining a leg. This
taught me immediately to rethink just what I was doing, why I couldn't
control him and allowed him to run down that hill, etc...you'all get
the picture. That was 3 years ago and I'm glad I woke up and slowed
down with OUR training.
One step at a time. Enjoy the journey, not just the journey's
end...
BTW, if you ride your horse hard because you think the holds are too
long and the completion time too short, you are responsible, not ride
management or the rules. If it takes 15 hours to do a 12 hour ride but
you completed it with a healthy horse, then that should be all that
matters..not points or prizes. But if you choose to ride hard to make
up where you are at toward the end of a ride, thats your responsibility
and poor judgement. I took 13 hours walking him into Mendocino 3 years
ago, but he wasn't lame when he was rechecked and I completed that
ride in my mind period. If it takes 50% of riders 15 hours to do a 12
hour ride, so be it. Those riders were responsible enough to their
horses to slow down because of unforeseen conditions. To me, they all
know they did a good job inside.
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab)
Black Mountain Ranch, Pt.Reyes, CA
+++previously,
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull wrote:
> How d'you train your horse not zoom, when he never does normally...
> *until* that first endurance ride...?
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores (reply)
Good question! One I don't really know the answer to, and would love
to hear from others.
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 17:48:42 -0500
From: "Sandra B. Terp" <hotspots@fast.net>
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One of my horses has become allergic to may things including alfalfa.
So I have switched from commercial sweet feeds to mixing my own. I use
the ABC ratio of oats, barley, and corn. I also add dry molasses, a
small amount of shredded beet pulp and hot water. My guys get this 'hot
cereal' once a day (all easy keepers), and yes you can hide just about
anything in it.
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6448e6a6.34c28aa1@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:05:03 EST
To: URRacing@elknet.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sore Feet
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What vet.. ?? the closest one is over an hour away.. I have a good vet closer
but she would not recommand anything different.. except maybe not to use the
ezboot
dont have much option.. and we dont use the standard meds/ drugs anyway..
We are mid cannon deep in mud.. If I just wrap the foot ..it all comes off the
first time they cross the creek and return in the mud.. i did wrap it first..
used adheive tape and duct tape.. the bottom part came off and it was a job
getting the rest off.
I soak the foot in epsom salt evey day..
I an using the herb /hemopathics and packing the foot and easy boot with
cotton.. stays on well and the cotton keeps most of the mud out of the damaged
sole.
I orderd a med treatment boot.. may be better..
anyway he is almost sound and the foot is healing well.. all the heat and
draining is gone.. he does not respond to pressure.. just does not like me
running my finger in the frog-- the hole is quite deep..
but its getting better..
and its rainning again.. 4 days.. have not been out.
Fri may be nice but cant ride the boy..
we are loosing alot of training time..
Roger R
h ESMTP id PAA28161 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 15:13:41 -0800 (PST)
From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:05:03 EST
To: URRacing@elknet.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sore Feet
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <80cc41e9.34c29a2a@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:11:19 EST
To: VMAXEPT@aol.com, URRacing@elknet.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Getting A Booth At ECTRA Banquet????
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If anyone out there can give me some information on
obtaining a booth at the annual banquet it would be
appreciated.
I have contacted Jane Soule by E-mail no answer I
have sent a letter to the BOD no answer Teddy said
Jane is the head of the Trade Show has anyone else
had this problem?????
Marcy
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 16:13:50 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: Simone Jordon <simimaus@webtv.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Rescue Remedy
References: <199801181823.KAA20639@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
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> What is Rescue Remedy?
Since I got a lot of personal replies asking about Rescue Remedy, I'll
post the answer to the group, also. Following is part of what I wrote to
Linda and then I added more information:
Resucue Remedy is a homeopathic, natural "calming" liquid made from
flowers. Also known as Bach's Flowers, they have many different
"receipes" for different situtions. Dr. Edward Bach was around in early
part of this century. Flower essences have been used throughout time.
The Essences actually work in the Aura, so they say it's not even
necessary to ingest any......someone else here said they spray the
essence near the horses' muzzle.....I've heard others just spray or put
a few drops in the manger of the trailer.
It's actually made for humans..........so I tripled the dose for Gabe.
(If you ever PMS badly, like I do, it works for that, too ;-}
Very expensive.....a 10 mml vial of liquid was about $10.......but I'd
never be without it again. Still have half of my first bottle, so it
does last.....
If you go to your health food store, you may find a whole line up of
"receipes". Like anything homeopathic, it helps to understand the
history and uses, but I just jumped in and started using it.....but be
careful and maybe experiment on yourself before dosing the horse with
it.
There was an extensive thread about it last year
....April....maybe....earlier......when I first asked about it at Ride
Camp, you can all try the archives for more experiences.
Hope this helps.
--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe~~~who likes to smell flowers, but not eat
them~~~~
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:51:43 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Re: What vet checks are for (was:Completion times)
In-Reply-To: <34C2822E.2ACB@inetworld.net>
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>> _I_ would like to dispel the notion that we have vet checks at endurance
>> rides so that horses can rest. This assumes that ride managers and/or
>> vets are responsible for resting our horses. As far as I am concerned,
>> vet checks are so that the vets can inspect the horses to confirm that
>> they are "fit to continue."
>
>
That's probably a function of the ride manager and the vets. I do know
that at my ride, one of the first things that I hash out with the vets is
the hold times. One of the prime considerations is ample time for rest for
the horses to recover. If it is going to be a hot/humid day we will allow
extra time. If it is going to be cold and windy we will most likely cut
the hold time to minimize the prospect of the horses getting stiff.
So like all general statements, including this one, the above is clearly
false.
Truman
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 19:07:12 -0600
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: excited horses....comments on competion times
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It also helps to have good training buddies to ride with. If you ride with
people who don't have the time to slow down or help if you get in trouble,
you will get discouraged.
Betsy O'Shea and I both have horses that needed a lot of work and have been
discouraged by other riders blowing past us, even on training rides.
However, working together, we have brought our horses a long way. We try to
arrange group rides whenever possible and ride with people who also are
training. We look out for each other, know the trouble signal when we hear
it, know it is ok to ride apart and get the horses used to that. We
practice riding together, riding apart, taking turns who is in the lead,
and expsing the horses to different scary monsters.
It has worked well and the boys are really coming along.
chris paus & star - who had to be the calm one on the ice and snow today.
>the less intimidating the excited horse has become to me, the better
>able I am to control him. I gained my confidence by: starting the
>horse in an arena, graduating to lots of slow trail and with other,
>strange horses, and finally to LD controlled races. This is a
>logincal good route to follow. It all takes time, patience and an open
>mind to learning. Preparing a green horse to take the trail and an
>excitable situation under control is nothing that can be or should be
>rushed.
> One of the best things I've done was find other ridecampers to go
>out with. Moving my horse to easily accessable trails was also
>required. I am a boarder, so I had to move him further from my home,
>but having private and public trails right near his ranch helped
>tremendously. Having knowledgeable and patient, plus kind, people on
>the ranch and as riding partners has been a Godsend.
> You want to teach the youngster it is ok to move out, and not
>reprimand it for moving out, at the same time balance it with going
>back down to the walk when asked. The arena is always a good place to
>start this. It will be on trail rides with other horses that the
>younster will reveal its excitment level when it sees groups going out,
>or disappearing around corners. An endurance race is not the place to
>judge this. I know, I couldn't control Mystery at our first ride.
>There was a spot where the trail went down a steep slope and turned a
>corner. He saw those horses racing around the corner out of sight,
>took control and ran down that hill, slightly spraining a leg. This
>taught me immediately to rethink just what I was doing, why I couldn't
>control him and allowed him to run down that hill, etc...you'all get
>the picture. That was 3 years ago and I'm glad I woke up and slowed
>down with OUR training.
> One step at a time. Enjoy the journey, not just the journey's
>end...
>
> BTW, if you ride your horse hard because you think the holds are too
>long and the completion time too short, you are responsible, not ride
>management or the rules. If it takes 15 hours to do a 12 hour ride but
>you completed it with a healthy horse, then that should be all that
>matters..not points or prizes. But if you choose to ride hard to make
>up where you are at toward the end of a ride, thats your responsibility
>and poor judgement. I took 13 hours walking him into Mendocino 3 years
>ago, but he wasn't lame when he was rechecked and I completed that
>ride in my mind period. If it takes 50% of riders 15 hours to do a 12
>hour ride, so be it. Those riders were responsible enough to their
>horses to slow down because of unforeseen conditions. To me, they all
>know they did a good job inside.
>
>
>Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab)
>Black Mountain Ranch, Pt.Reyes, CA
> +++previously,
>
>
>Lucy Chaplin Trumbull wrote:
>> How d'you train your horse not zoom, when he never does normally...
>> *until* that first endurance ride...?
>
>From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
>To: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
>Subject: Re: Bits to Hackamores (reply)
>
>Good question! One I don't really know the answer to, and would love
>to hear from others.
>
>
>
>
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 18:07:26 -0800
From: Pete Occhialini <poko@jps.net>
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Subject: slickers
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--
Rancho Occhialini
"Where the fat guy lumbers"
I don't know about the rain slickers that Stateline sells, but the
Australian Connection has an oilskin poncho that is great! Had a chance
to use it today. We rode in the Auburn/Foresthill area and got caught
in the rainstorm that arrived a few hours earlier than predicted.
Saddles and riders were dry. Thanks Janet.
ko
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 21:21:20 -0400
From: Gail Dillon <rthogg@epix.net>
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Subject: Saddle for sale at convention
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I will be bringing my Wintec Endurance PRO to sell at the convention.
It has only been used a few times.
Gail Dillon
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:24:23 -0500
From: Lyn Kamer <MUSTANGRDR@worldnet.att.net>
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To: Michelle Blanchard <MBLANCHRD@AOL.COM>,
Ridecamp - Endurance Riders Forum <ridecamp@endurance.net>
CC: Sandy Terp <hotspots@fast.net>, Michelle Blanchard <MBLANCHRD@AOL.COM>,
"Meg Sleeper, DVM." <mms@vet.upenn.edu>, MNelson632@AOL.COM,
Jim and Mary Lou Gicker <napsd@bellatlantic.net>,
"Dr. MJ Potter" <DRMJPOTTER@AOL.COM>, Diane Nelson <nelsonde@apci.com>,
Ana Selkow <aselkow@ptdprolog.net>
Subject: Good riding excuse
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Hi all,
Came across this on another list, it's the best excuse I've run across
in a long time, for going riding and saying the Hell with housework.
"I believe you should live each day as if it is your last, which is why
I don't have any clean laundry, because, come on, who wants to wash
clothes on the last day of their life?"
Is this right on or what?
Lyn Kamer, C.E.S.M.T., and my Mustangs, the girls: PC and Star
The Healing Touch of New Jersey
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6dee3226.34c2da7e@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:45:47 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Portable Stalls Picket
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In a message dated 98-01-16 05:24:37 EST, mbp@holly.colostate.edu writes:
<< Picket lines - They seem to work well, but I have heard of one instance
where a horse got a leg over the lead rope and almost sawed its foot off
trying to get untangled. As with anything, try it at home several times,
and be careful.
My favorite, and what I use: The Safety Fence from Custom Iron Workers.
Would have never bought it until I saw it. Expensive but excellent, and
over time, worth the investment! When first using it, I was on a slant, >>
>>>>>>>>>>
I use a picket at times. However. I did the problem as indicated above.
I made a high line that ran from the back of the trailer to a two piece poll -
made from 2 inch pipe and fitted to the bumper on my big truck motorhome. ) my
old one from the 70's). I would jac-knife the rig and run the rope.
I must have left the rope too long one time. She must have put her head down
to scratch the head --foot went through the rope and halter. head came up and
flipped her over upside down -wrapped the rope- nylon-BAD-- around the ankle.
She fell over on the rope.. bent the pipe pole.. what a wreck. I was up and
out of the MH.. cut the rope.( I sleep with a knife open on the table with a
flash-lite) she had only fought for about 2 minutes.. but was soaked and
very shaken up.. I left her lay there for a few minutes. Nothing appeared
broke.. I was a wreck. I thought she was trashed bad..It was the night before
the ride. NO vet on the grounds..
After 5 minutes she stood up.. and started to eat hay. NOthing broke. the
ankle had a bad rope burn.
So packed her leg with ice. Walked her for an hour--at 3 am..
Put some icthamahual sp-- and wraped with more ice.. And went to sleep.
We walked he for an hour in the morning. cleaned off the ankle.
Vetted in sound. rode a 30 mile ctr.. placed .. i think 1st or 2nd hw..
Then went home and turned her out. sound..
THEN packed up early sunday am and went to another 30 mile ctr.. veted in
sound but tired. finished and placed i think 3rd..
Was I lucky or what? What I did was the best for her. I rode and kept her
moving. so she did not stiffien up. The ankle -pastern did get worse the week
after. but not bad.. just kept it clean and treated. Never was lame.
We did not use the picket too much after that. When I did I kept the rope
short.
Now I tie to the trailer for NATRC CTR- required. I - re-trained her to not
pull back-- as much-- we are working on the John LYons - give to the pressure
lesson.. it works. she is not fully trust worthy. May still pull back - but
less. We also use the 'cross tie' bungie. They work great and so far I think
the safest.
We still use electric pens. but only in a controlled site..I really trust
mine. BUT other horses will run through..
I have Mitts pen. had it for a year. I just have not had the time to put it on
the trailer. I
I have seen riders just carry it loose in the trailer then haul it out at the
ride and set it on the ground. A BIT heavy for that I think. I may try it
this year that way. To see how it works. The ones I have seen set up look
great and safe..
SInce we hope to do more endurnace this year, I guess I should get this thing
mounted..
Roger R
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <92805d73.34c2e8e6@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 00:47:16 EST
To: delvecchio@geocities.com, simimaus@webtv.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Rescue Remedy
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AS many or some of you I am trying to become 'experinced' with homepathic
treatment of horses.. and myself.
THe stuff works, its not that complicated. and for the most part safe..
however past threads have suggested otherwise..
I use resuce remedy on me and my horses. it does calm us both down.. esp if
you use before you or the horse goes over the top -- and gets excited.
i carry a larger assortement of homepathic 'stuff' and a very easy to
understand book.
you dont need a phd or dvm to understand or us homepathic med.
even though there are many who claim such.
the stuff is cheap to buy.. and not from a natural health food store.
ex.. a 1 oz bottle of arinca or any of the 30c remidies should sell fo $6 to
$8
if you pay more you are getting ripped off.
the high strength does cost more.. (200c, 1m etc)
all it takes to understand this is time -- to read --an open mind and the
willingness to try it on yourself and horses.
it would be nice if i had a holistic vet in my area.. but no such luck.. so I
figure things out myself. and most of the time I get good results.
AND if I dont get results fast enough Univ of TN is only an hours drive
away..
roger r
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Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:56:59 -0600 (CST)
From: "Lucie A. Hess" <lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu>
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: AERC convention Vendors
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Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knows how many vendors will be at the
Convention? Also do they know which vendors will be there. I'm making a
List and checking it twice!! I'm also counting my pennies...I'm at least
hoping to do some heavy duty Window shopping!!!
Lucie Hess
Columbia, Missouri
Chief Black Arrow -retired Appy
Moonhill Dandi -current mount- 7/8 Arab
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Reply-To: <bkwranch@cmn.net>
From: "Wolgram's" <bkwranch@cmn.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: forms of beet pulp
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 22:51:50 -0700
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I would like to thank everyone who replied to my request about the
difference between shredded and pelleted beet pulp....you were all very
helpful...
Betty from Colorado
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From: "Lori Hayward" <haywardl@shentel.net>
To: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: ROOMMATE FOR CONVENTION
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:50:25 -0500
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If anyone going to the convention needs a room I have a double reserved =
at the Day's Inn for Thurs., Fri. and Sat. nite and the person =
originally going with me has cancelled. If you want to share a room =
call me at 540-896-0981 or email me at haywardl@shentel.net.
Females only please. Don't think my 'significant other' would go for =
me sharing a room with a male.
Lori Hayward
LIV2RYD in VA
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<DIV><FONT size=3D2>If anyone going to the convention needs a room I =
have a double=20
reserved at the Day's Inn for Thurs., Fri. and Sat. nite and the person=20
originally going with me has cancelled. If you want to share a =
room call=20
me at 540-896-0981 or email me at <A=20
href=3D"mailto:haywardl@shentel.net">haywardl@shentel.net</A>.</FONT></DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Females only please. Don't think my =
'significant=20
other' would go for me sharing a room with a male.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Lori Hayward</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>LIV2RYD in VA</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:54:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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Hi- That's pretty much how I do things, and yesterday I took an hour (about
all I can stand) to chip away at the crud in the kitchen. It was truly
disgusting but I try to keep in mind that life is very short so I went out for
nice ride instead of finishing the job. Life is too short to clean house!Take
care-Amy and Joselle
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20a1d748.34c35076@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:09:08 EST
To: zebella@idt.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
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In a message dated 98-01-18 11:43:01 EST, you write:
> if it's hot, then watermelon chunks and grapes are good.
I carried grapes on a ride ONCE. They don't last for extended periods at the
extended trot <g>
~Nora
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4f2d1fc9.34c35223@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:16:17 EST
To: karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
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In a message dated 98-01-18 12:03:27 EST, you write:
> Gu (definitely my favorite!)
>
> That's about it. Usually, the only thing that really keeps me going is
> having several Gu's...otherwise, I don't eat enough.
Okay, I give up . . . . . . What's a Gu?
~Nora
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:58:21 -0500
Subject: Dogs and Trail Riding
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Good Mornin'!
I'm going to test the limits here of ridecamp, and see if we don't get
kicked out for asking a non-related question, but I imagine a lot of
you have had the same situation.
We have two GREAT trail dogs, who go out with us on all of our
conditioning rides (and whine miserably back in camp when we leave
them while competing).
The younger of the two is a black lab cross (and is so injury prone
--impalings on branches, porcupines, tangles with farm equipment,
stepped on by the lead horse on a ride, etc.-- that there was a time
we called her 'Deathwish Deva', who last week ripped her dewclaw while
playing. Our vet wrapped it up, gave us some antibiotics, and made a
surgery appointment for us for TOMORROW to have both dewclaws removed
(since we do so much riding thru woods with the dogs). She'll be on
'restricted activity' for two weeks, during which it will be difficult
to determine who will go lulu first, the dog (from lack of exercise)
or us (from having to put up with same).
So, here's the question. Should we do it? Have any of you done the
same? Any warnings, words of wisdom, or suggestions?
To avoid clogging up the BB, please e-mail me directly at
patti_carey@iimak.ccmail.compuserve.com. THANK YOU!!! Sorry for the
non-equine question.
-- Patti and (its-been-over-a-year-since-I've-required-surgery) Deva
ance.net>; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:31:35 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:58:21 -0500
Subject: Dogs and Trail Riding
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:27:03 -0500 ()
From: Gayle Ecker <gecker@uoguelph.ca>
To: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
cc: RUN4BEAR@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: For vets, males, and stallion owners
In-Reply-To: <303b4e70.34bfdb1a@aol.com>
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Dear Teddy and others,
Just thought I would add my 2 cents worth to this one (that's only about
1/2 cent U.S. these days, so you may be getting what you pay for :> )
Most Standardbreds have a wide gait in the hind end when they get going,
unlike most riding horses who stay fairly vertical in comparison. Some of
the Standardbreds on the treadmill will actually kick the sides of the
frame due to the wide action of the hind legs. I've rarely run into this
problem with riding horses on the treadmill. Given the difference in gait
the equine "jock straps" may not be useful on a riding horse, although the
horse may give you an emphatic answer if you try one out on him!
Gayle
On Fri, 16 Jan 1998, CMKSAGEHIL wrote:
> Teddy and all--
>
> I would be very leery of the "jock strap" apparatus that the harness racers
> use in our sport--we humans know all too well how uncomfortable and irritating
> something can become that seems just fine in norma times when we bounce down
> the trail wearing it for several areas. I think we might be subjecting these
> boys to some real punishment here... I know I have had rather personal parts
> of my anatomy raw and bleeding from wearing "normal" clothes on endurance
> rides...
>
> As I said in my original reply on this issue, I doubt that the firm, enlarged
> testicles in this case were caused by physical irritation, but rather by a
> transient infectious problem or some such...
>
> Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:06:33 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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To: tetervin@bms.com
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
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tetervin@bms.com wrote:
>
> Hi- That's pretty much how I do things, and yesterday I took an hour (about
> all I can stand) to chip away at the crud in the kitchen. It was truly
> disgusting but I try to keep in mind that life is very short so I went out for
> nice ride instead of finishing the job. Life is too short to clean house!Take
> care-Amy and Joselle
I think many have that same feeling. For the Warner Springs and
Manzanita Ride, I had shirts made that say -- Boring Women Have
Immaculate Homes. No offense to those who do horses and have immaculate
homes, but if you have to choose . . .
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:13:04 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: ridecamp at convention
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I thought I would make up some ridecamp badges for those in ridecamp who
are going to the convention. If you email me privately I will make one
up for you. Please include your name, alias (if you use one, i.e,
cyberpony, pegassis, Butthead in Buffalo, etc.), and your home town.
I'll check with MaryAnn to see if we can put them someplace near
registration. I'll also make some blank ones up that you can fill out
there.
I'll be leaving for Lexington on Wednesday morning, so email me with
your information sometime before Tuesday night.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego, CA
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From: HELFTER 77 <HELFTER77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2b4b38a7.34c368f9@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:53:43 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Grain Mixes: Sources of Foods
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AAAAAAAA5968 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001210 06460671716 0013124 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA02653 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:39:55 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:39:55 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801191539.HAA02653@fsr.com>
Subject: Wolverine Canyon 30 & 50
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Rae Ann Larson
Email: jrlar@ida.net
Date is June 6th. It is a NW region sanctioned ride. New ride camp location. Use e-mail to request exact location. 8 miles Southeast of Idaho Falls on the Hoff Farms.
5969 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001771 06460672023 0013131 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from bluefish.fsr.com (step@bluefish.fsr.com [207.141.24.51]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA02931; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:40:49 -0800 (PST)
Received: (from step@localhost) by bluefish.fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) id HAA07340; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:39:13 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:39:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Stephanie Teeter <step@bluefish.fsr.com>
Message-Id: <199801191539.HAA07340@bluefish.fsr.com>
To: twhowe@inetworld.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-reply-to: <34C36D80.73A@inetworld.net> (message from Terry Woolley Howe on Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:13:04 -0800)
Subject: Re: ridecamp at convention
>>>>> "Terry" == Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net> writes:
> I thought I would make up some ridecamp badges for those in
> ridecamp who are going to the convention. If you email me
Terry - we'll be running a booth (Mike Maul, Russ Humphrey,
Denise and me) for AERC online - will also have Ridecamp
and Endurance Net stuff. Make sure you bring some badges
to the booth!
Steph
5970 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002177 06460674434 0013132 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from u2.farm.idt.net (root@u2.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.11]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA04597 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:02:31 -0800 (PST)
Received: from zebella.idt.net (ppp-54.ts-1.phx.idt.net [205.147.151.114])
by u2.farm.idt.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA08023;
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:00:53 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <34C377A9.43D4@idt.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:56:25 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
References: <a13d646.34c34de3@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Cyberpony wrote:
> > if it's hot, then watermelon chunks and grapes are good.
>
> I carried grapes on a ride ONCE. They don't last for extended periods at the
> extended trot <g>
Ah yes, too true.....I meant having them waiting for you at the vet
checks :)) I don't think the watermelon would fare too well either!
hmmm, course if you like juice.... :)))
tracy
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From: WWArabsrun <WWArabsrun@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e24347fe.34c37a2f@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:07:09 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: USED SADDLE SALE AT CONVENTION
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Please remember to bring those used saddles to the convention for our used
saddleexchange booth. This is the perfect place to sell or buy a saddle. Hope
to see everyone there!!!!!
contact Amy Whelan or Connie Caudill when you arrive.............
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: good riding excuse
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:05:35 -0700
Message-ID: <01bd24f4$13506d20$8b8287cf@willard>
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>"I believe you should live each day as if it is your last, which is why
>I don't have any clean laundry, because, come on, who wants to wash
>clothes on the last day of their life?"
With five kids, two dogs, two cats, and a husband who thinks I'm a little
nuts for trying to do horses too, I tell him that this is a sanity saver and
the only way I am going to stay OUT of the loony bin.
Who wants to do laundry and clean house, when your horse is waiting to go
for a ride.
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:24:49 -0700 (MST)
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To: aerc@foothill.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: 1998 Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride
Cc: b-mbobrow@worldnet.att.net, darolyn@swbell.net, ddc@Rt66.com,
renegade12@juno.com, dfrazier@mail.llion.org,
lynng@access.mountain.net, jackson@inconnect.com, Navarrada@aol.com,
mmsprice@postoffice.ptd.net, ridecamp@endurance.net,
LRiedel769@aol.com, HULYATE@sembilan.UCHSC.edu, step@bluefish.fsr.com,
equine_athletes@hotmail.com
Greetings MaryAnne!
For your information, and if you would forward this to the Competitions
Committee, the date for the 1998 Mountain Region National Series
Championship Ride to be held as part of the Pawnee Grasslands I ride has
been changed (Ride Change form is in the mail to you) to April 25th.
Thanks & have a great convention!
Happitrails!
Brad.
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:44:58 -0800 (PST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
Subject: trail blazer mag
THIS IS ***NOT*** to start the past discussion again.
PLEASE respond privately so as not to clutter the list, thanks.
Is there anyone on the list that has a complete set of issues for the past
two years that would help us with an advertising research question (simply,
not difficult)?
Thanks.
Jim Clanin
kclanin@fix.net
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a883c653.34c38331@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:45:35 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs and Trail Riding
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In a message dated 98-01-19 09:31:08 EST, you write:
<< We have two GREAT trail dogs, who go out with us on all of our
conditioning rides (and whine miserably back in camp when we leave
them while competing).
The younger of the two is a black lab cross (and is so injury prone
--impalings on branches, porcupines, tangles with farm equipment,
stepped on by the lead horse on a ride, etc.-- that there was a time
we called her 'Deathwish Deva', who last week ripped her dewclaw while
playing. Our vet wrapped it up, gave us some antibiotics, and made a
surgery appointment for us for TOMORROW to have both dewclaws removed
(since we do so much riding thru woods with the dogs). She'll be on
'restricted activity' for two weeks, during which it will be difficult
to determine who will go lulu first, the dog (from lack of exercise)
or us (from having to put up with same).
So, here's the question. Should we do it? Have any of you done the
same? Any warnings, words of wisdom, or suggestions?
>>
I think this is a related topic since so many seem to want their canine pals
along for the ride. In the words of our close vet friend, "they would rather
stay at home and sleep in the sun anyway. The commotion of public places is
disconcerting to your pets". Not only THAT, but in order to keep my pets safe,
AND keep them from being a nuisance and a hazard, I must attend to them much
more than I truly have time to, and there is enough to do at an event - show,
ride, etc. It is one mor ething to concern with, and you HAVE TO. I consider
loose dogs, barking dogs, and dog excrement all over the place a bloody
nuisance when I am readying for a ride or show - and so ours stay home -
happily. Certainly there is a concern for the safety of the dogs, but in
addition, there is the safety of other riders, understanding that not ALL
horses are accustomed to having dogs racing about or jumping at their heels.
So...in answer to this question: Well, do you want more to worry about and do
you wnat to have to babysit your pets on a ride? If you bring them you will
have to do so.
s
p.s. more rides are not allowing dogs to attend. We like this.
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:32:30 -0800
To: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: Re: ride food - Gu
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <4f2d1fc9.34c35223@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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>Okay, I give up . . . . . . What's a Gu?
This is what it is (according to the label)
Gu - Fast food for athletes
Low fat, 100 calories
1.1 oz.
Comes in flavors like chocolate, tri-berry, orange and vanilla
Instructions: Squeeze directly into mouth and follow with a few mouthfuls
of water.
Most effective when eaten on an empty stomach
It's basically the consistency of pudding or frosting...I like it a lot
better than power bars.
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Dream Weaver
& Rocky
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Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:45:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Lucie A. Hess" <lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu>,
"Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: AERC convention Vendors
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:43:16 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd2501$b9244980$1313c9cf@patfred>
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Just to let everyone know that I will be Kentucky for the Convention. I'll
be in Booth 12. Hope everyone will stop by & say hello. Looking forward to
meeting new friends & visiting with long time friends.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucie A. Hess <lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu>
To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 9:59 PM
Subject: AERC convention Vendors
>Hi all, I was wondering if anyone knows how many vendors will be at the
>Convention? Also do they know which vendors will be there. I'm making a
>List and checking it twice!! I'm also counting my pennies...I'm at least
>hoping to do some heavy duty Window shopping!!!
>
>Lucie Hess
>Columbia, Missouri
>Chief Black Arrow -retired Appy
>Moonhill Dandi -current mount- 7/8 Arab
>
>
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Message-Id: <199801191747.JAA10274@fsr.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 09:45:37 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
REPLY TO 01/19/98 06:04 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: ride food
[71237] MON 01/19/98 06:04 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: ride food; 33 LINES
From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:16:17 EST
To: karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
In a message dated 98-01-18 12:03:27 EST, you write:
> Gu (definitely my favorite!)
>
> That's about it. Usually, the only thing that really keeps me going is
> having several Gu's...otherwise, I don't eat enough.
Okay, I give up . . . . . . What's a Gu?
~Nora
---------------
It's a small packet of dextrose-based quick-energy food stuff.....
different sugars and electrolytes. They are about an oz., and you
can easily carry them in a pocket or saddlebag.
Same idea as a powerbar, but easier to eat! You tear off the top
and squeeze the gel into your mouth.
I carry them on the horse for those times I am getting fatigued,
but it's still an hour until lunch stop.
But, mainly, I use them for long runs......since I have some odd
blood-sugar fluctuations and they keep me from totally crashing.
I really like the orange, all other flavors make me gag! Power bars
has also come up with a power gel; the lemon lime is good!
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:07:25 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801191907.AA02705@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net, cancer@inetworld.com
Subject: re: ride-time thread - post ride time or total time.
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Terry,
Good point - but it would be pretty easy to have the hold times for a
ride given at the top of the list as well. (And helpful to know if 10 hours
riding time means finishing with 30 or 90 minutes to spare on total
elapsed time.)
>>I would prefer the ride time only be listed, since that gives the reader
the knowledge of how tough the course is by seeing the riding time,
rather than trying to guess how much of that was hold time if the
elapsed time were given.>>
I do have a suggestion for any ride managers who want to give a little
extra time for a tough ride - Lay out a 52.6 mile course and sanction it
as a 55.
Teresa
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:11:03 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801191911.AA02708@cody.unavco>
To: fourhorn@fea.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: tying picket to rear foot
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Lauren,
I probably don't have to tell you - but do make sure to teach your horse
to lead by the foot in a round pen before you tie her like this.
Teresa
>>>>>>>>>
I did. And the first time I used it, she got the rubber hose wrapped
near her rear legs and sort of did this rear thing and fell on her back.
Needless to say I was sort of shaken up as this happened within the
first 15 min. Someone told me that instead of snaping the "hose" to the
halter, to use a hobble and put it on her back leg to be the safest.
Haven't tried it yet, but I will.
Lauren>>>>>>>>>>
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Fw: FCC Access Charges
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:49:42 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd2502$9f0f8a40$1313c9cf@patfred>
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This came from my e-mail server. For those of you who want to check out the
information & know for sure, here is the FCC site to do that.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Engdahl <root>
To: customers <customers>
Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 8:04 AM
Subject: FCC Access Charges
>Recently, a number of you have received an e-mail discussing a proposal
>by the FCC to charge Internet Service providers an access charge, or
>a per-minute fee. Many of you have forwarded this e-mail to us, asking
>whether or not it is true. We knew that such a proposal had come to the
>FCC, but we did not know the details.
>
>It turns out that the proposal did come before the FCC, and they ruled
>against it last year. The e-mail that is circulating now is accurate in
>all but the date.
>
>If you wish to see more detail, you may check the FCC's information at
>http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html
>
>Please do not continue to forward the e-mail that is circulating. It
>does not accomplish anything, and unnecessarily alarms those who receive
>it.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dennis
>
Handling Rope Halters
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Priority: urgent
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 14:30:00 -0600
From: Bridget Cavanaugh <BridgetC@pagemart.com>
Subject: RE: ride food
To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
X-Mailer: Worldtalk (NetConnex V4.00a)/MIME
FYI
You can buy "Gu" at sporting good stores or outdoor recreation retailers
like REI or Back Country. I used it on Tevis to give me a boost late at
night or just when I needed energy to get through rough spots. I like
vanilla, personally.
Bridget
----------
From: Sullys Maze[SMTP:Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 2:21 PM
To: ridecamp
Subject: Re: ride food
REPLY TO 01/19/98 06:04 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: ride food
[71237] MON 01/19/98 06:04 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: ride food; 33
LINES
From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:16:17 EST
To: karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
In a message dated 98-01-18 12:03:27 EST, you write:
> Gu (definitely my favorite!)
>
> That's about it. Usually, the only thing that really keeps me going
is
> having several Gu's...otherwise, I don't eat enough.
Okay, I give up . . . . . . What's a Gu?
~Nora
---------------
It's a small packet of dextrose-based quick-energy food stuff.....
different sugars and electrolytes. They are about an oz., and you
can easily carry them in a pocket or saddlebag.
Same idea as a powerbar, but easier to eat! You tear off the top
and squeeze the gel into your mouth.
I carry them on the horse for those times I am getting fatigued,
but it's still an hour until lunch stop.
But, mainly, I use them for long runs......since I have some odd
blood-sugar fluctuations and they keep me from totally crashing.
I really like the orange, all other flavors make me gag! Power bars
has also come up with a power gel; the lemon lime is good!
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:51:23 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
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Organization: Plough Electric
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Subject: english vs endurance model saddles
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Does anyone ride in english saddles out there on endurance rides? What
type if so and where do you put all your "stuff"?
Are there any endurance type saddles one can "try" before they "buy"?
Please email me privately so as not to clutter the list. I'm still going
through archives, and I'm also on the digest.
thanks!
Kimberly
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From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
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Subject: convention
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Hello everyone!! Lets see a virtual show of hands for those coming to the
convention!!
I will be there, and am really looking forward to meeting everyone here!!
How will we be able to hook up and get a good "face to face"? Suggestions
anyone?
thanks.
APPY TRAILS
SAMM C. BARTEE
Auburn, Al. SE Region
with
SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance newbie
85 miles and.....
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:43:07 -0600
From: Lance Rosedale <rosedale@sonic.net>
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Subject: evaluating foals?
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I'm thinking of breeding my Arab mare and am looking around at
stallions, and, if possible, their get. I understand how to look at
conformation in a grown horse, but what do you look for in a foal? Can
they tell you anything? Can you assume that if the legs are correct
they will stay correct?
Thanks for any ideas--
Eileen
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on Monday, 19 January 1998, 15:56:02 EST
From: "Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
Organization: McGill Faculty of Law
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:54:13 EST
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Subject: Nutrition
Priority: normal
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I have a couple of questions about nutrition:
1)How much selenium is
too much? And what does too much selenium do exactly?
I just bought a bag of pre-mixed grain (like Omolene -oats,
corn, molasses, and other goodies) and noticed that there is
selenium in it. The vitamin/mineral supplement which my horse gets
about twice a week [in the winter-such as now-he always eats all that I give, in
the summer he sometimes leaves the supplement]
also has selenium in it. The amounts which are indicated on the bags
(I can't remember how much exactly offhand) are calculated as "per
kg". Of course my horse is not getting a kg of the stuff, but only a
scoop at feeding time twice a week, which would be no more than a
couple of ounces. So how much selenium is he actually getting in
those few ounces/week, I have no idea! Which is why I am wondering
about this and whether I am creating a problem here..
2)I have purchased some Farrier's Magic (same idea as Farrier's
Formula) to add some biotin in my horse's diet. There is also copper
and zinc in Farrier's Magic. Now, my regular vitamin/mineral supplement
also has copper and zinc in it. I have read that copper and zinc need
to be balanced (in a similar fashion as calcium and phosphorous need
to be balanced). Again, numbers are calculated as to what is in the
entire container of Farrier's Magic (an 11 pound container).
The scoop in that case has written on it 60 cc and you are supposed to
feed 4 of those scoops/day. My question is whether I should be
feeding both the Farrier's Magic and the vitamin/mineral supplement
at the same time? or should I not feed the vitamin/mineral supplement
when I feed Farrier's Magic (or vice versa)?
Help!
I am finally back on track and back in school, here in Quebec, with the electricity
being back on for a couple of days now and the freezing rain over with. It was an
adventure trying to get water to the horses when there is no running
water and everything outside is sheer ice so the horses are stuck
inside (can't even get out there to lick some snow! :)). Everyone in my
community has wells (no water system like in the cities) and the water
pumps all run on electricity, so when the power goes there is absolutely no
water. Luckily one place nearby had a generator and we were able to cart
some water over to the barn from that place for about five days until
the power came back. Perhaps this was some typeof "endurance" test :)
Well, apart from all that I hope that you all had a great holiday and all the best for
the new year and the new endurance season. I am glad to be back on
ridecamp and able to read the fountain of knowledge it contains!
P.S. The weather people seem to think that El Nino
may have something to do with the freezing rain (I thought it didn't affect us this
far East!), so I say...damn you El Nino! Sorry Monika, it just isn't
treating us as well as you!
Lysane (I wish the rain outside didn't turn the trails into ice so
that I could get out there and ride! Sniffle, sniffle)
and Buck (I wish the rain outside didn't turn my field into a
skating rink and my fur into ice, so that I could get out there and
play!!!! Sniffle, sniffle)
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801192200.PAA12185@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: No Pictures Please
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:00:40 MST
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Please folk,
NO PICTURES, No non-ascii stuff at all.
--
Wendy
\|/
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/ /\ / \ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\/\/\ /\
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/ / \/ /\ \ / \ \ / \/ / / \/ \/ \ / \ \
/ / \/ \/\ \ / \ / / \
__/__/_______/___/__\___\__________________________________________________
Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
Hewlett-Packard Company e-mail: wendy@fc.hp.com
Mail Stop A2-5UB3 Telnet: 229-2182 (898-2182 as of Nov 1.)
3404 E. Harmony Rd. AT&T: (970) 229-2182 (898-2182)
Fort Collins, CO, 80528-9599 FAX: (970) 229-2038 (898-2038)
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From: REBELCJB <REBELCJB@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ce82fbdc.34c3da23@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:56:32 EST
To: Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
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This Gu stuff sounds really bad. What can you tell us that will make it sound
more appetizing?
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:12:05 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Pat Gluckin <a1234@gte.net>
Subject: going to convention
I am enthusiastically raising both hands (one for me and one for my
daughter). I'm also bouncing up and down. This is our first visit to one of
these. We're aspiring newbies eager to see all and learn as much as we can.
Got the horses, truck, trailer, books..and still accumulating. :) See you there.
Pat and Michelle
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<Pine.WNT.3.94.980119092218.-164245A-100000@gecker.uoguelph.ca>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:06:31 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
>Most Standardbreds have a wide gait in the hind end when they get going,
>unlike most riding horses who stay fairly vertical in comparison.
Actually, some good Arabs move quite wide in rear too...
is it a pedigree thing? Not in reference to the Jock-strap
question, just an observation.
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
... whose farrier has been known watch the QH/Arab
cross and say "Hey, that horse looks like he's trying
to trot with a load in his pants!" :) :) :)
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:55:19 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: ride food
>This Gu stuff sounds really bad. What can you tell us that will make it sound
>more appetizing?
I was just thinking... maybe the humans should eat the
same food on training rides as they do at competition
just like our horses. Good excuse to go out and try some
of these things before a ride.
Cantelope at the vetchecks is good. Trailmix. Instant
oatmeal. And Magnum's personal favorite... Rice Krispy
Treats!
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
Pickles? Yuck...
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:28:26 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: tetervin@bms.com
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
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> yesterday I took an hour (about all I can stand) to chip away at the crud in
> the kitchen. It was truly
> disgusting but I try to keep in mind that life is very short so I went out for
> nice ride instead of finishing the job. Life is too short to clean house!
AMEN! I can go all summer without a "real" cleaning in the house ~~ especially
since I spend so little time indoors ~~ but just had 8 days of rain here.....so
the place is sparkling again! Yehaw! time to go ride, again!--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe ~~ ankle deep in mud & insisting on laying down in it ~~
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:45:00 -0600
To: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>, delvecchio@geocities.com, simimaus@webtv.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Rescue Remedy
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <92805d73.34c2e8e6@aol.com>
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I have used Rescue Remedy, too. NOt in competition (on Star), but on me in
competition and for getting Star over the jitters in training. I haven't
used it in competition because i figured it would be a banned drug. Is this
true?
Like all training aids, keep in mind they are aids. Dont' become dependent
on them. After Star learned that lakes won't eat him from behind, we quit
using Rescue Remedy. But a friend uses it for a mare who freaks out in the
trailer.
4 to 6 drops on a horse treat does the trick.
chris paus & star
At 12:47 AM 1/19/98 EST, VMAXEPT wrote:
>AS many or some of you I am trying to become 'experinced' with homepathic
>treatment of horses.. and myself.
>THe stuff works, its not that complicated. and for the most part safe..
>however past threads have suggested otherwise..
>
>I use resuce remedy on me and my horses. it does calm us both down.. esp if
>you use before you or the horse goes over the top -- and gets excited.
>
> i carry a larger assortement of homepathic 'stuff' and a very easy to
>understand book.
>
>you dont need a phd or dvm to understand or us homepathic med.
>even though there are many who claim such.
>
>the stuff is cheap to buy.. and not from a natural health food store.
>
>ex.. a 1 oz bottle of arinca or any of the 30c remidies should sell fo $6 to
>$8
>if you pay more you are getting ripped off.
>the high strength does cost more.. (200c, 1m etc)
>
>all it takes to understand this is time -- to read --an open mind and the
>willingness to try it on yourself and horses.
>
>it would be nice if i had a holistic vet in my area.. but no such luck.. so I
>figure things out myself. and most of the time I get good results.
>
>AND if I dont get results fast enough Univ of TN is only an hours drive
>away..
>roger r
>
>
>
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6f0290bf.34c40158@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:43:50 EST
To: lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC convention Vendors
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Lucy:
I asked and asked and FINALLY got this from AERC regarding who in the way of
vendors is going to be at convention. Here is the list they gave me:
Griffins
Custom Iron
Plush Seat Bottoms
Australian Connection
GE Forge
Natural Horse Halters
Vita Key
Hought Tack
Pro Formula Labs
Ride & Tie Assoc.
Animal Tacker
IAHA
J. Ewing
Equistar
ABC Products
Sport Saddle
Bluegrass Bridelworks
Loveel of Mack
ER Saddlery
Go The Distance
Your Horse
Collectors Gallery
Cloud 9
That's what they told me....and of couse, I will be there (even though I was
not on the list!!)
Teddy
Running Bear Farm, Inc.
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:49:16 -0600
To: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>, zebella@idt.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <20a1d748.34c35076@aol.com>
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OOHH The visual I get on that is not good. ditto for bananas!
At 08:09 AM 1/19/98 EST, Cyberpony wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-18 11:43:01 EST, you write:
>
>> if it's hot, then watermelon chunks and grapes are good.
>
>I carried grapes on a ride ONCE. They don't last for extended periods at the
>extended trot <g>
>
>~Nora
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:49:41 -0600
To: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>, zebella@idt.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <20a1d748.34c35076@aol.com>
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Those nutrigrain bars adn other cereal type bars travel well and are fairly
nutritiouis and tasty.
chris paus & star
At 08:09 AM 1/19/98 EST, Cyberpony wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-18 11:43:01 EST, you write:
>
>> if it's hot, then watermelon chunks and grapes are good.
>
>I carried grapes on a ride ONCE. They don't last for extended periods at the
>extended trot <g>
>
>~Nora
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:52:09 -0600
To: Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs and Trail Riding
In-Reply-To: <199801190902_MC2-2FD5-8D6E@compuserve.com>
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My black lab, Bubba, the hound dog, Duke, and neighbor's golden retriever,
Santa, all follow me on all my training rides. They love it. They get quite
upset when the see Star go in the trailer because they know they will be
left behind. They get some aches and pains now and then, but they are dogs
and need to get out and go.
chris paus & star
At 08:58 AM 1/19/98 -0500, Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com wrote:
> Good Mornin'!
>
> I'm going to test the limits here of ridecamp, and see if we don't get
> kicked out for asking a non-related question, but I imagine a lot of
> you have had the same situation.
>
> We have two GREAT trail dogs, who go out with us on all of our
> conditioning rides (and whine miserably back in camp when we leave
> them while competing).
>
> The younger of the two is a black lab cross (and is so injury prone
> --impalings on branches, porcupines, tangles with farm equipment,
> stepped on by the lead horse on a ride, etc.-- that there was a time
> we called her 'Deathwish Deva', who last week ripped her dewclaw while
> playing. Our vet wrapped it up, gave us some antibiotics, and made a
> surgery appointment for us for TOMORROW to have both dewclaws removed
> (since we do so much riding thru woods with the dogs). She'll be on
> 'restricted activity' for two weeks, during which it will be difficult
> to determine who will go lulu first, the dog (from lack of exercise)
> or us (from having to put up with same).
>
> So, here's the question. Should we do it? Have any of you done the
> same? Any warnings, words of wisdom, or suggestions?
>
> To avoid clogging up the BB, please e-mail me directly at
> patti_carey@iimak.ccmail.compuserve.com. THANK YOU!!! Sorry for the
> non-equine question.
>
> -- Patti and (its-been-over-a-year-since-I've-required-surgery) Deva
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:55:16 -0600
To: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: good riding excuse
In-Reply-To: <01bd24f4$13506d20$8b8287cf@willard>
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Remind whiney husbands that without our horses, we would likely be taking
up space at the psychiatrists' office at $100 or more an hour!
chris paus & the starman
At 09:05 AM 1/19/98 -0700, Craig W. Hadley wrote:
>>"I believe you should live each day as if it is your last, which is why
>>I don't have any clean laundry, because, come on, who wants to wash
>>clothes on the last day of their life?"
>
>With five kids, two dogs, two cats, and a husband who thinks I'm a little
>nuts for trying to do horses too, I tell him that this is a sanity saver and
>the only way I am going to stay OUT of the loony bin.
>Who wants to do laundry and clean house, when your horse is waiting to go
>for a ride.
>
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:00:01 -0600
To: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs and Trail Riding
In-Reply-To: <a883c653.34c38331@aol.com>
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I agree. I love to take my dogs on rides, but not to competitive rides,
only on training rides.
chris paus & the pack
At 11:45 AM 1/19/98 EST, SandyDSA wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-19 09:31:08 EST, you write:
>
><< We have two GREAT trail dogs, who go out with us on all of our
> conditioning rides (and whine miserably back in camp when we leave
> them while competing).
>
> The younger of the two is a black lab cross (and is so injury prone
> --impalings on branches, porcupines, tangles with farm equipment,
> stepped on by the lead horse on a ride, etc.-- that there was a time
> we called her 'Deathwish Deva', who last week ripped her dewclaw while
> playing. Our vet wrapped it up, gave us some antibiotics, and made a
> surgery appointment for us for TOMORROW to have both dewclaws removed
> (since we do so much riding thru woods with the dogs). She'll be on
> 'restricted activity' for two weeks, during which it will be difficult
> to determine who will go lulu first, the dog (from lack of exercise)
> or us (from having to put up with same).
>
> So, here's the question. Should we do it? Have any of you done the
> same? Any warnings, words of wisdom, or suggestions?
> >>
>I think this is a related topic since so many seem to want their canine pals
>along for the ride. In the words of our close vet friend, "they would rather
>stay at home and sleep in the sun anyway. The commotion of public places is
>disconcerting to your pets". Not only THAT, but in order to keep my pets
safe,
>AND keep them from being a nuisance and a hazard, I must attend to them much
>more than I truly have time to, and there is enough to do at an event - show,
>ride, etc. It is one mor ething to concern with, and you HAVE TO. I consider
>loose dogs, barking dogs, and dog excrement all over the place a bloody
>nuisance when I am readying for a ride or show - and so ours stay home -
>happily. Certainly there is a concern for the safety of the dogs, but in
>addition, there is the safety of other riders, understanding that not ALL
>horses are accustomed to having dogs racing about or jumping at their heels.
>
>So...in answer to this question: Well, do you want more to worry about and do
>you wnat to have to babysit your pets on a ride? If you bring them you will
>have to do so.
>s
>p.s. more rides are not allowing dogs to attend. We like this.
>
>
>
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2723d140.34c4017a@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:44:18 EST
To: kathy@nvolve.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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In a message dated 98-01-19 19:08:22 EST, kathy@nvolve.com writes:
<<
Actually, some good Arabs move quite wide in rear too...
is it a pedigree thing? Not in reference to the Jock-strap
question, just an observation.
>>
Not just arabs...I had an appy gelding that I could park a Vokswagon between
his hind legs he was so wide at the trot. So far, I have not been able to
repeat it through breeding or training...sometimes it happens, sometimes it
doesn't
Teddy
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:06:04 -0600
To: Bridget Cavanaugh <BridgetC@pagemart.com>,
ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: RE: ride food
In-Reply-To: <199801192037.PAA09395@nationwide.pagemart.com>
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But, does it give you enough courage to cross the swinging bridge?
At 02:30 PM 1/19/98 -0600, Bridget Cavanaugh wrote:
>
>FYI
>You can buy "Gu" at sporting good stores or outdoor recreation retailers
>like REI or Back Country. I used it on Tevis to give me a boost late at
>night or just when I needed energy to get through rough spots. I like
>vanilla, personally.
>Bridget
>
> ----------
>From: Sullys Maze[SMTP:Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU]
>Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 2:21 PM
>To: ridecamp
>Subject: Re: ride food
>
>REPLY TO 01/19/98 06:04 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: ride food
>
>[71237] MON 01/19/98 06:04 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: ride food; 33
>LINES
>
>From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 08:16:17 EST
>To: karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us
>Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Subject: Re: ride food
>
>In a message dated 98-01-18 12:03:27 EST, you write:
>
>
>> Gu (definitely my favorite!)
>
>>
>> That's about it. Usually, the only thing that really keeps me going
>is
>> having several Gu's...otherwise, I don't eat enough.
>
>Okay, I give up . . . . . . What's a Gu?
>
>~Nora
>
> ---------------
>It's a small packet of dextrose-based quick-energy food stuff.....
>different sugars and electrolytes. They are about an oz., and you
>can easily carry them in a pocket or saddlebag.
>
>Same idea as a powerbar, but easier to eat! You tear off the top
>and squeeze the gel into your mouth.
>
>I carry them on the horse for those times I am getting fatigued,
>but it's still an hour until lunch stop.
>
>But, mainly, I use them for long runs......since I have some odd
>blood-sugar fluctuations and they keep me from totally crashing.
>
>I really like the orange, all other flavors make me gag! Power bars
>has also come up with a power gel; the lemon lime is good!
>
>Karen
>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>
>
>
>
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'Erika'" <elt115@psu.edu>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Endurance Riding
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:22:00 -0800
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Hi Erika,
I'm forwarding your message to the Endurance listserve,
Ridecamp. I'm sure you'll hear from somebody regarding
your request!
Steph
p.s. Ridecampers - please reply to Erika at elt115@psu.edu. (not me).
-----Original Message-----
From: Erika [SMTP:elt115@psu.edu]
Sent: Saturday, January 17, 1998 12:14 PM
To: step@fsr.com
Subject: Endurance Riding
HI,
I was searching the internet for Endurance Trainers. I saw your web page and
the answer to one of the questions submitted. I also live in the
Philadelphia area and was wondering if you could give me any assistance in
finding a list of trainers for endurance riding. Any help you could give me
would be appreciated. Thanks
Erika
elt115@psu.edu
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:36:43 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: zebella@idt.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
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> Cyberpony wrote:
>
> > I carried grapes on a ride ONCE. They don't last for extended periods at the
> > extended trot <g>
> Zebella wrote:
> > Ah yes, too true.....I meant having them waiting for you at the vet
> checks :)) I don't think the watermelon would fare too well either!
Can you imagine the size of the pommel bag to carry the watermelon. (Or
maybe it's TWO melons to balance the load!?)
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'Samm C Bartee'" <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>,
Endurance
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: convention
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:56:02 -0800
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I'll be doing an AERC Online booth - with Mike Maul,
Russ Humphrey and Denise (ridecamp) Krakowski.
We'll have two laptops, and one will be hooked to the net
so we can do demos and such.
Denise and I will also have Ridecamp and Endurance Net
stuff (tshirts, calendars, etc). And hopefully some ridecamp
badges from Terry.
So come by, say Hi, leave messages, whatever - and give
us feedback on the AERC web site. MaryAnne is becoming
more active regarding the website, and I'm sure she'd like
to hear from folks what you want to see on it.
see ya there!
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: Samm C Bartee [SMTP:bartesc@mail.auburn.edu]
Sent: Monday, January 19, 1998 12:56 PM
To: Endurance
Subject: convention
Hello everyone!! Lets see a virtual show of hands for those coming to the
convention!!
I will be there, and am really looking forward to meeting everyone here!!
How will we be able to hook up and get a good "face to face"? Suggestions
anyone?
thanks.
APPY TRAILS
SAMM C. BARTEE
Auburn, Al. SE Region
with
SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance newbie
85 miles and.....
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:55:11 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: Kathy Myers <kathy@nvolve.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
References: <303b4e70.34bfdb1a@aol.com> <v0300781ab0e999af5fa7@[204.162.114.203]>
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> >Most Standardbreds have a wide gait in the hind end
Kathy Myers wrote:
> Actually, some good Arabs move quite wide in rear too...
> is it a pedigree thing?
My husband's TB/QH cross travels this way. He is very atypical for a QH
cross...(sadly mistaken for a Standardbred or Morgan something cross)
He "squats" and "spreads" as he picks up a big, ground eating trot that
has been clocked by car at 22 mph. Too fast for Rocket & I to keep up
with at a trot. Doesn't sound breed related, to me. Major learned to
do this over a period of his first 2 years of conditioning.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <784c6e5e.34c40f95@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:44:35 EST
To: Cyberpony@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
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In a message dated 98-01-19 08:09:47 EST, you write:
<< > if it's hot, then watermelon chunks and grapes are good.
I carried grapes on a ride ONCE. They don't last for extended periods at the
extended trot <g>
~Nora
>>
For a humorous note on ride food, as a ride vet, I get all kinds of apologies
for the different substances in which ride cards have accidentally become
immersed. The winner so far is one that spent considerable time in a fanny
pack with a ripe banana...
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <784c6e5e.34c40f95@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:44:35 EST
To: Cyberpony@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
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Subject: Performance Products Home Page
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Patty Danlely
Email: bluwater@ctaz.com
Check it out! http://www.ctaz.com/~bluwater/
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Subject: Re: ride food
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Linda S. Flemmer wrote:
> > > Ah yes, too true.....I meant having them waiting for you at the vet
> > checks :)) I don't think the watermelon would fare too well either!
>
> Can you imagine the size of the pommel bag to carry the watermelon. (Or
> maybe it's TWO melons to balance the load!?)
>
LOL!!! A whole new way to be able to make weight <G>
tracy
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Nutrition
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:15:55 -0800
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NRC gives 2 mg/kg of diet (dry basis) as the maximum tolerable dose for
selenium. Selenium toxicity can be chronic, low overdoses over a long
period; or acute, high overdoses in a short time period. The resulting
toxicity is quite different in the 2 cases: loss of hair and hoof wall in
chronic (alkali disease) and stumbling; breathing and cardiac abnormalities,
and colic in acute (blind staggers). The real question is what is the
general selenium content of your feeds: hay, etc. For that, contact your
county extension agent.
Copper interacts with a number microminerals and radicals: molybdenum,
sulfate, zinc, selenium, silver, cadmium. Copper can be used to depress
selenium absorption in areas with high selenium content in the feed. There
are undoubtedly many other interactions of which we have no knowledge. The
problem with trying to micromanage these nutrients (aside from incomplete
knowledge) is that there is no good source of information as to the content
of the normal forages and grains fed horses. The NRC tables are useful for
those minerals that remain more or less constant in a given plant species,
but are useless for those minerals that vary greatly: selenium and
magnesium are 2 that come to mind, but I am not certain that some of the
others aren't also as variable. Even for the others, the tables are based on
very small number of samples and variations exist.
It is possible to test your hay, but I have never seen routine hay tests
include anything beyond crude protein, DE (calculated from protein and the
various fiber types: ADF, NDF), calcium, phosphorous and perhaps selenium
and potassium. Those can be done fairly reasonably, but I haven't a clue
what it would cost to include all the other nutrients. The form of the
nutrients is also another variable that would ratchet the testing up another
notch. Of course, if you are feeding grain, that would also have to be
tested. Since most supplements seldom give you a maximum and minimum level
of the nutrients, you again have no way to calculate the balance. For most
nutrients, a minimum level is given - there is no way of knowing the
maximum.
The bottom line is not to try and do the impossible: micromanage the
micronutrients. Pay attention to the big ones and hope for the best. As a
general rule, I do not like the practice of giving multiple supplements
without very good reason: the chances of mucking something up is probably as
good as the chances of doing something useful. It is possible to find biotin
and amino-acid supplements without adding the minerals.
In some cases, the addition of some of the nutrients into a formulation is
done strictly for marketing reasons: they want the ingredient listed on the
label. If it is there in an amount of say less than 10% of the horse's
requirements, it is there for marketing purposes - not for any nutritional
reason. If the horse normally receives all his requirements from hay (e.g.,
iron and potassium), the nutrient is also there for marketing.
Happy to hear you and the critters survived that ordeal.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Lysane Cree <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
<<
I have a couple of questions about nutrition:
1)How much selenium is
too much? And what does too much selenium do exactly?
I just bought a bag of pre-mixed grain (like Omolene -oats,
corn, molasses, and other goodies) and noticed that there is
selenium in it. The vitamin/mineral supplement which my horse gets
about twice a week [in the winter-such as now-he always eats all that I
give, in
the summer he sometimes leaves the supplement]
also has selenium in it. The amounts which are indicated on the bags
(I can't remember how much exactly offhand) are calculated as "per
kg". Of course my horse is not getting a kg of the stuff, but only a
scoop at feeding time twice a week, which would be no more than a
couple of ounces. So how much selenium is he actually getting in
those few ounces/week, I have no idea! Which is why I am wondering
about this and whether I am creating a problem here..
2)I have purchased some Farrier's Magic (same idea as Farrier's
Formula) to add some biotin in my horse's diet. There is also copper
and zinc in Farrier's Magic. Now, my regular vitamin/mineral supplement
also has copper and zinc in it. I have read that copper and zinc need
to be balanced (in a similar fashion as calcium and phosphorous need
to be balanced). Again, numbers are calculated as to what is in the
entire container of Farrier's Magic (an 11 pound container).
The scoop in that case has written on it 60 cc and you are supposed to
feed 4 of those scoops/day. My question is whether I should be
feeding both the Farrier's Magic and the vitamin/mineral supplement
at the same time? or should I not feed the vitamin/mineral supplement
when I feed Farrier's Magic (or vice versa)?
Help!
[snip]
>>
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Nutrition
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:6010 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003466 06461015650 0013104 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA13357 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:36:04 -0800 (PST)
From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6bede67e.34c41b3f@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:34:21 EST
To: cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Nutrition
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Regarding selenium:
The daily requirement for selenium is 8-10 mg. The level necessary for
chronic toxicity is 60-90 mg/day over a several week period. It is a lot
harder to achieve this than a lot of people think, especially for those of us
in deficient areas. A kg (kilogram) is only 2.2 pounds. One has to do the
math when one is serving an amount different than the "per kg" or "per pound"
listed on most labels to figure out how much of any one nutrient there is.
Most feeds labeled as "high selenium" still only contain 2 to 2.5 mg per
recommended serving, because that is all that FDA will allow feed
manufacturers to add. In other words, if you live in a deficient area, one of
these feeds will only provide one-quarter of your horse's daily requirement.
In other words, you have to add considerably more than what these "enhanced"
feeds contain.
Too much selenium can cause problems with losing mane and tail hair, and in
extreme cases, also sloughing of the hoof wall. Acute high doses at critical
times of pregnancy can cause malformations in the fetus. However, deficiency
is a far more common scenario. Deficient horses are less thrifty, more prone
to immune problems, more prone to rhabdomyelitis (tying-up syndrome), and a
whole host of other problems.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Message-ID: <34C41AEC.5FE5@tdsi.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:33:00 -0600
From: Ruth Bourgeois <ruthb@tdsi.net>
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To: &endurance group <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
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Chris Paus wrote:
>
> Those nutrigrain bars adn other cereal type bars travel well and are fairly
> nutritiouis and tasty.
Cheerios cereal travels pretty well. I was riding with a junior rider at
a ride one time, and her mother had warned me that she got real grumpy
when she didn't eat her breakfast. When it was time to start the ride,
she still hadn't eaten, so I grabbed a baggie full of Cheerios and tied
it to the front of my saddle. Every time we stopped I tried to get the
kid to eat some. She never did. I got tired of this bag of Cheerios
bouncing on my leg and my horse's neck as we trotted along, and by the
end of the ride, I was munching on them and my horse was eating them at
the P&R stops. And her mother was right - the kid did get grumpy (after
refusing the eat the Cheerios without milk!).
Ruth
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:50:34 -0600
To: zebella@idt.net, bluwolf@earthlink.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34C41728.3950@idt.net>
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MOST OF US ARE TRYING TO SHED THE WEIGHT OF TWO LARGE WATERMELONS, NOT GAIN
IT!!
At 08:16 PM 1/19/98 -0700, Zebella wrote:
>Linda S. Flemmer wrote:
>> > > Ah yes, too true.....I meant having them waiting for you at the vet
>> > checks :)) I don't think the watermelon would fare too well either!
>>
>> Can you imagine the size of the pommel bag to carry the watermelon. (Or
>> maybe it's TWO melons to balance the load!?)
>>
>
>LOL!!! A whole new way to be able to make weight <G>
>
>tracy
>
>
>
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <75096251.34c41e2c@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:46:50 EST
To: lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC convention Vendors
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HI Lucie--et-all
We will be there. booth cant remember --front two booths on second row just
as you come int he door.. cant miss us..
We will have a few new things..
Like our great handheld one piece repairable transmitter --for use in the vet
check.
V-MAX HEARTCHECK-- well tested at the PamAm, ROC and OD this year. super
tool.. beats the belt --just press it on the horse.. any side and read the HR
on any monitor rec watch..
A few new models -- with great features..
Like the BASIC- V-MAX START NV-- a HR only with a backlight .. very nice
large display..
V-MAX LIMIT NV-- HR Hi-LO Time of Day Backlight 1/2in display
-no stopwatch--like who needs that .. most of the time I dont start the hold
timer..anyway..
and since its 6/12/24hr all I need is the time and HR..
Plus all our regular performance items and supplements..
and homeopathics.
SO for those who are comming stop by -we look foward to seeing the the riders
from the east.. like hometown ..and those that are traveling from the west.
This should be a great convention.. A GREAT list of speakers.. 2 full days
plus Thurs night..
We will getting there early Thurs.. to get set up and then hit the evening
presentations.
See you in Kty.
Roger R
V-MAX
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:05:30 -0600 (CST)
To: paus@micoks.net, Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com,
ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs and Trail Riding
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Hey, I would not train without my Mary Belle!!! She is a Austalian
Shepherd!!!
She goes every where with me!!!
Diane Fruth ..Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT...
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Chris Paus wrote...
>My black lab, Bubba, the hound dog, Duke, and neighbor's golden retriever,
>Santa, all follow me on all my training rides. They love it. They get quite
>upset when the see Star go in the trailer because they know they will be
>left behind. They get some aches and pains now and then, but they are dogs
>and need to get out and go.
>
>chris paus & star
>
>At 08:58 AM 1/19/98 -0500, Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com wrote:
>> Good Mornin'!
>>
>> I'm going to test the limits here of ridecamp, and see if we don't get
>> kicked out for asking a non-related question, but I imagine a lot of
>> you have had the same situation.
>>
>> We have two GREAT trail dogs, who go out with us on all of our
>> conditioning rides (and whine miserably back in camp when we leave
>> them while competing).
>>
>> The younger of the two is a black lab cross (and is so injury prone
>> --impalings on branches, porcupines, tangles with farm equipment,
>> stepped on by the lead horse on a ride, etc.-- that there was a time
>> we called her 'Deathwish Deva', who last week ripped her dewclaw while
>> playing. Our vet wrapped it up, gave us some antibiotics, and made a
>> surgery appointment for us for TOMORROW to have both dewclaws removed
>> (since we do so much riding thru woods with the dogs). She'll be on
>> 'restricted activity' for two weeks, during which it will be difficult
>> to determine who will go lulu first, the dog (from lack of exercise)
>> or us (from having to put up with same).
>>
>> So, here's the question. Should we do it? Have any of you done the
>> same? Any warnings, words of wisdom, or suggestions?
>>
>> To avoid clogging up the BB, please e-mail me directly at
>> patti_carey@iimak.ccmail.compuserve.com. THANK YOU!!! Sorry for the
>> non-equine question.
>>
>> -- Patti and (its-been-over-a-year-since-I've-required-surgery) Deva
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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To: twhowe@inetworld.net
Cc: tetervin@bms.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
Message-ID: <19980120.105824.4390.9.Rides2far@juno.com>
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<34C36BF9.38EF@inetworld.net>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:00:06 EST
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:06:33 -0800 Terry Woolley Howe
<cancer@inetworld.net> writes:
>tetervin@bms.com wrote:
>>
>> Hi- That's pretty much how I do things, and yesterday I took an hour
>(about
>> all I can stand) to chip away at the crud in the kitchen. It was
>truly
>> disgusting but I try to keep in mind that life is very short so I
>went out for
>> nice ride instead of finishing the job. Life is too short to clean
>house!Take
>> care-Amy and Joselle
>
>I think many have that same feeling. For the Warner Springs and
>Manzanita Ride, I had shirts made that say -- Boring Women Have
>Immaculate Homes. No offense to those who do horses and have
>immaculate
>homes, but if you have to choose . . .
>
>Terry Woolley Howe
>San Diego
My HUSBAND bought a plaque that said that for my kitchen. My dentist
said he didn't know how I had time to do this with two daughters. I
said, "I didn't start doing this until I had two daughers". He said, "My
wife runs 5 miles every day, and she never ran until we had children". I
guess we're not alone
Angie
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:16:59 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801200416.UAA17694@fsr.com>
Subject: Old Dominion Web site
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Kevin Baird
Email: kbbaird@rev.net
Check out the Old Dominion web site at:
http://www.olddominionrides.org
for updates and event summaries.
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
Message-ID: <36019751.34c41e3a@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:46:56 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, delvecchio@geocities.com, simimaus@webtv.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Rescue Remedy
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In a message dated 98-01-19 20:48:50 EST, paus@micoks.net writes:
<< I have used Rescue Remedy, too. NOt in competition (on Star), but on me in
competition and for getting Star over the jitters in training. I haven't
used it in competition because i figured it would be a banned drug. Is this
true?
>>
its not a drug.. so it would be up the personal convictions of the rider..
its better then a wreck with a new horse at the start..
and does mask a problem or cause a pharmacalogic effect to improve the
performance of the horse..
your call..
roger r
mellow
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Reply-To: <bkwranch@cmn.net>
From: "Wolgram's" <bkwranch@cmn.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: big horn
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:17:11 -0700
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Wanted: Used Big Horn leather endurance saddle...or might consider a
Stonewall...size 15" seat....needs to have been well-cared for and
reasonably priced. E-mail privately bkwranch@cmn.net. Thanks.
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:28:51 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
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> > > I carried grapes on a ride ONCE. They don't last for extended periods at the
> > > extended trot <g>
> > Zebella wrote:
> > > Ah yes, too true.....I meant having them waiting for you at the vet
> > checks :)) I don't think the watermelon would fare too well either!
>
> Can you imagine the size of the pommel bag to carry the watermelon. (Or
> maybe it's TWO melons to balance the load!?)
Hmmm, how 'bout carrying chopped melon or grapes in a water bottle?
Cushioned with water? Or even sangria -- didn't we have this
conversation once before, about how much fun a ride could be if you
carried water bottles filled with sangria? <bg>
BTW folks, lots of replies are coming in now, and I'm tickled pink!
(Well, more likely neon orange, pink is just NOT my color.) Creative
ways for carrying the food are appreciated too -- never occurred to me
before that a bagel will fit nicely into an easyboot!
keep 'em coming -- we'll have a great little FAQ soon
Glenda & Lakota (what's a bagel? will I like it?)
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:38:52 -0600 (CST)
From: "Lucie A. Hess" <lhess01@mail.coin.missouri.edu>
X-Sender: lhess01@coinc0
To: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
cc: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: convention
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980119145423.28349D-100000@mallard>
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I'll be there, I hope to have a ridecamp button.
Lucie Hess
Columbia, Missouri
Chief Black Arrow -retired Appy
Moonhill Dandi -current mount- 7/8 Arab
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Samm C Bartee wrote:
> Hello everyone!! Lets see a virtual show of hands for those coming to the
> convention!!
> I will be there, and am really looking forward to meeting everyone here!!
> How will we be able to hook up and get a good "face to face"? Suggestions
> anyone?
>
> thanks.
>
> APPY TRAILS
>
>
>
> SAMM C. BARTEE
> Auburn, Al. SE Region
> with
> SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
> B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance newbie
> 85 miles and.....
>
>
>
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:36:35, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: convention
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The Burton family will be there from the Central Region!
We can't wait!
We'll have the Equa-blu at our room at the Hyatt, most likely.
Thanks for all the response! Glad to see everyone wants to try a new
product! I'll put mailing information out later.
Louise Burton
Bruce Burton
Amber Burton
Jesse Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:56:58 -0600 (CST)
To: XXDU78A@prodigy.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: convention
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Hi Everyone!!
Jerry and I will be there, plus our junior rider Amber Boring too!!
We are all excited about seeing our friends, and just imagine
we will all be dressed in REAL CLOTHES!!!!
Jerry & Diane Fruth ..Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT...
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Ms Louise D Burton
wrote...
>The Burton family will be there from the Central Region!
>We can't wait!
>We'll have the Equa-blu at our room at the Hyatt, most likely.
>Thanks for all the response! Glad to see everyone wants to try a new
>product! I'll put mailing information out later.
>Louise Burton
>Bruce Burton
>Amber Burton
>Jesse Burton
>Firedance Farms Arabians
>
>
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To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re Good Riding excuse
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:20:35 +0200
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That was the best piece of advice I have ever read,with 7 dogs(including
the latest addition a Australian cattle dog pup called Dingo)7 cats,23
horses,eight foals expected,who has time for housework anyway,
all i do is take care of the animals and ride,ride ,ride,Oops two kids as
well,the poor husband has to do with cereal for supper,do what one has to
do and live your dreams :-))
Regards
kathy,"shanni" "Tuckahoe" well at least our stables are immaculate!!!
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To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Pictures and my webpage
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:21:41 +0200
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HI all,
I am very tempted to share a great pic with all of you of what my horses do
for fun,when they are not doing endurance.It is of my two endurance
horses(both Appaloosas) looking at a Rhino,taken at one of our trail
rides.If anyone would like me to send them the pic i will do so.Its a
wonderfull pic!
We have also had our first ride of the season in the Drakensburg
Mountains,the scenery was incredible and it was hot!With high humidity.
Also here is my webpage ,have started a SA Endurance page as well,we are
still working on it so it will be updated on a regular basis.
http://196.7.177.40/aht/
Regards
Kathy
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From: "lth" <lth@lightspeed.net>
To: <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:14:12 -0800
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I would be interested in the answers to this post, also . . . . . so,
perhaps you could post *some* to the list . . . . . some of us are
newbies and trying to learn what we can about this sport. Thanks . .
. . . .
Linda Hedgpeth
Wasco, CA
lth@lightspeed.net
----------
> From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: english vs endurance model saddles
> Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 12:51 PM
>
> Does anyone ride in english saddles out there on endurance rides?
What
> type if so and where do you put all your "stuff"?
>
> Are there any endurance type saddles one can "try" before they
"buy"?
>
> Please email me privately so as not to clutter the list. I'm still
going
> through archives, and I'm also on the digest.
>
> thanks!
> Kimberly
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: AERC Convention
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:58:06 -0500
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Hello Samm,
I'll be there and looking forward to seeing you and everyone.
Oh and by the way, I 'm looking for a Horse and trailer if you hear of
any.
See ya there!
Travel safely.
Suzanne,
Suzanne W. Solis
Application Support Specialist
Lockwood Greene - Atlanta
Ph - 404/818-8542
Fax - 404/818-8100
e-mail: ssolis@lg.com
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From: "Cam/Shannon Wood" <wood.cameron@acd.net>
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 98 08:45:38 PST
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It seems that this "wide at the trot" hind end produces a desirable way of
moving -- at least the opinions I've seen here -- and possibly quite a bit
of power, too. I can see why being wide would be a good thing as far as
avoiding interference, etc., but I dunno ... I've always been taught that
straight movement is best, and any other way of going causes strain on
tendons, joints & muscles. Is there a certain conformation that produces
this action ? (ie, base wide to begin with?) And has it caused any harm to
those horses that move this way, or are they all happily trotting down the
trail with no problems?
My own experience with a horse like this --- a 16 hh appy who trotted wide
as a running goose, and looked just as funny --- this horse is 22 years old
now and goes like crazy. Never been lame. Just seems to go against what
I've learned :)
Shannon W. LVT
Laingsburg, MI
----------
>
> In a message dated 98-01-19 19:08:22 EST, kathy@nvolve.com writes:
>
> <<
> Actually, some good Arabs move quite wide in rear too...
> is it a pedigree thing? Not in reference to the Jock-strap
> question, just an observation.
> >>
>
> Not just arabs...I had an appy gelding that I could park a Vokswagon
between
> his hind legs he was so wide at the trot. So far, I have not been able to
> repeat it through breeding or training...sometimes it happens, sometimes
it
> doesn't
>
> Teddy
>
n 98 08:45:38 PST
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It seems that this "wide at the trot" hind end produces a desirable way of
moving -- at least the opinions I've seen here -- and possibly quite a bit
of power, too. I can see why being wide would be a go6028 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001364 06461127634 0013116 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from endeavor.flash.net (endeavor.flash.net [209.30.0.40]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA20209 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:07:19 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:06:49 -0600
From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
Organization: Manuel LaBoure Ranch
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Regarding Gu
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It is pronounced Gee You or Goo?
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From: HELFTER 77 <HELFTER77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <473323ca.34c4b3ad@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:24:43 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods (Grains)
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Sources of Foods
Horse feeds are evolving toward processed forms with feed companies using
"least cost" ingredients and manufacturing practices. Commercial feeds may be
composed of soybean meal or cleanings and fines from cracked corn (by-
products) with molasses added to reduce dust and increase palatability of
ingredients which would otherwise be discarded with a swish of the upper lip
or one good snort, and understandably so.
Sugar is as bad for horses as it is for any other species, and horses may
exhibit mood swings similarly seen in humans. Time and time again horses calm
rapidly after molasses-sweetened feeds are removed from the diet. Molasses
also contains chemical preservatives or surfactants. Preservatives to reduce
spoilage in the heat of the summer and surfactants such as propylene glycol to
reduce congelation in the chill of the winter. Molasses and its baggage bring
inconsistencies that we like to avoid.
Pelleted feeds are used as alternatives to sweet feeds and do not cause the
increase in blood sugar that is associated with feeding molasses coated
grains. However, pelleted feeds bring forth other concerns. One, poor-quality
grains are easily disguised in pellet form and two, many pellet binders are
chemically based. The major concern lies in the quality of the grains. Grain
sources are where a number of amino acids and natural occurring trace minerals
are retrieved. With the methods of pelleting, even if the quality of the
grains are good to begin with, many of the nutrients are lost in processing.
The philosophy behind a good quality feed is to make sure you see what you are
getting. Therefore the best feeds are oats, barley and corn. A combination of
the three is the best providing a wide spectrum of amino acids and trace
minerals. A mixture that works well consists of 45% oats (large racehorse oats
or crimped oats); 30% steamed, rolled barley (the only form available in
bulk); and 25% large cracked or flaked corn. However, in some areas quality of
the grains may be a concern and an adjustment of the ratios may be made.
Contrary to popular belief, corn generates less heat when digested as opposed
to other grain sources because corn contains less fiber and more digestible
energy. This makes corn an excellent summertime horse feed, particularly for
the equine athlete.
Of course the horse's superior source of food is found in the back yard.
Pasture need not be lush and chemically fertilized to be a nutritional benefit
to horses. Excellent grazing can be obtained from pasture with herbs (weeds)
mixed with grass; this combination gives the horse opportunity to select (free
choice) plants other than grass for nutritional and medicinal reasons.
Hay constitutes the bulk of the horse's diet in the winter and, in some areas
of the country, year round. The horse's "fermentation vat" (cecum) needs long-
stem fiber and not chopped fiber such as the form found in hay cubes.
Digestion of short-stem fiber takes place primarily in the small intestine,
leaving the cecum less full than it should be. Some parts of the country have
access to only alfalfa hay, which is too high in protein and calcium. A
variety of hay is the best. A horse was created to eat long-stem fiber for
about 20 hours a day, not in two small meals of rich hay.
Another source of food necessary for survival and is the foundation for any
diet is water. Does your water serve its nutritional purpose?
When horses are provided adequate nutrition they have fewer health problems,
recover from disease faster, are more resistant to contagious illnesses, are
given the opportunity to reach genetic potential and are better able to
maintain physical condition.
Kendra Helfter Lax
President
Advanced Biological Concepts
1-800-373-5971 Fax 309-522-5570 Helfter@netexpress.net
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:39:32 -0500 (EST)
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To: trailriding@cwa.com, ridecamp@endurance.net, horseman@orednet.org
From: Dolores Arste <darste@emi.com>
Subject: Riding numbers
This is slightly off topic. But, do any of you know how many Endurance/CTR
riders we have in the US? And beyond that any idea how many riders in
general we have in the US? Or any idea how to find out?
Dolores
Braken Schips / Entwoond Racing Siberians - Morgans Too!
"Authority without domination, Love without subservience, Respect without fear"
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To: equine_athletes@hotmail.com
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: AN AERC NATIONAL "ONE-DAY" CHAMPIONSHIP
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net, aerc@foothill.net, b-mbobrow@worldnet.att.net,
MBowers472@aol.com, darolyn@swbell.net, ddc@Rt66.com,
renegade12@juno.com, dfrazier@mail.llion.org,
lynng@access.mountain.net, jackson@inconnect.com, Navarrada@aol.com,
mmsprice@postoffice.ptd.net, LRiedel769@aol.com, RUN4BEAR@aol.com,
step@bluefish.fsr.com, cmiket@aol.com, HULYATE@sembilan.UCHSC.edu,
WWArabsrun@aol.com
AN AERC NATIONAL "ONE-DAY" CHAMPIONSHIP
WHY? In the seven years of my relatively limited endurance career, I am
constantly asked by and hear consistent discussion between AERC members and
both the riding and non-riding public as to which horse & rider team is the
"best" in the sport. I also want to know! Living vicariously or not,
people identify with a champion. Whether it be the Triple Crown, Pro Rodeo
or the Super Bowl, in any given year we know who the best was in our nation
because they excelled through an organized, as-equitable-as-possible system
of competition. We have a National Mileage and Best Condition Champions,
and we have North American, Pan-American and World Champions. Why don't
we, the AERC, have a National Champion?
The following proposed National Championship system will identify,
in one head-to-head competition, a 50 mile and 100 mile American Endurance
Ride Conference National Champion that will complement the existing
National Mileage and Best Condition Championships; and it will also serve
to promote general member interest in and accessibility to high-caliber
competition.
The current National Series Championship system is not working and
is essentially meaningless. The AERC Board of Directors has expressed past
interest in producing an event that wholly belongs to AERC (the Classic),
and there is no current ride that has both the high level of competition
desired to produce a national champion and a qualifying system that truly
represents the entire Conference.
Both 50 and 100 mile distance National Championships should be
conducted to most fairly represent the preferred riding distances of the
membership; there is no reason to only have a 100 mile champion. Look at
the ride calendar: Our sport is no longer only 100 mile rides, but is
actually far from it!
HOW? While it is granted that no system will ever be perfect, the
following system utilizes existing AERC program components while addressing
stated concerns including scheduling, past "trailer race" traveling
problems, regional equability, and membership accessibility.
Yes, in any sport, on any given day, anybody might win . . . there
is nothing wrong with this reality! To be as fair as possible to the
membership of the various regions, with their respective elevations,
temperatures and humidities, a National Championship ride would have to be
rotated between regions. This proposed system would only require horse and
rider teams to travel one time both in and outside of their regions, thus
eliminating the "trailer race" issue. Given that teams would only have to
compete in one Regional Championship, scheduling conflicts would be
minimized for both the Regional Directors and AERC Competitions Committee
(all regional rides could be held on the same day without conflict, though
this would be both unnecessary and probably undesirable).
SCHEDULE: Between December 1st and June 30th of each year, each region
would conduct a Regional Championship ride (in place of the current
National Series Championship). The National Championship Ride would be
held between mid-July and mid-August, allowing participating teams rest
time after the Regional Championship and before the International
Competitions usually held in September.
REGIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP RIDES: Existing, established rides with proven
courses and experienced ride management would be encouraged to nominate
their ride for selection by the two regional directors by the mid-year
Board of Directors meeting prior to the upcoming ride season. The Regional
Championship rides would be rotated between existing regional rides. The
Regional Championship rides would be run as divisions of the existing ride,
thus encouraging potential ride managers to put on such a ride even if
faced with a limited turnout of qualified teams.
Long-standing, nationally known rides such as the Tevis, Old
Dominion, or Big Horn would be excellent choices for Regional Championship
rides; the AERC Board of Directors might want to consider re-sanctioning
the Race of Champions with a name change that is less conflicting.
NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP RIDE: Existing, established rides with proven
courses and experienced ride management would be encouraged to nominate
their ride for selection by the AERC Competitions Committee and approval by
the AERC Board of Directors at the mid-year meeting prior to the upcoming
ride season. At the National Championship Ride, there would not be open
divisions; only qualified teams would compete. With a potential field of
180 riders (90 in each distance), ride managers would be encouraged to
nominate to host this ride. The National Championship rides would be
rotated every year between regions.
HORSE & RIDER TEAM QUALIFICATIONS: The qualifications for the Regional
Championship rides would be minimal enough to encourage maximum
participation, but stringent enough to discourage teams with insufficient
experience. To qualify for the Regional Championship 50 mile ride, teams
will have to have successfully completed 300 career miles of endurance
distance competition together, including at least one top ten placement in
a 50 mile ride with at least ten starting teams. To qualify for the
Regional Championship 100 mile ride, teams will have to have successfully
completed 300 miles of career competition in 100 mile rides together,
including at least one top ten placement.
Teams may compete in any Regional Championship ride of their
choice. Riders would be responsible for providing their team AERC career
ride record to the Regional Championship ride management in advance of the
ride to verify eligibility.
To qualify for the National Championship Ride, teams will have to
have placed in the top ten of their Regional Championship Ride of the same
year.
RULES: All rides would be governed by AERC Rules & Regulations.
International (FEI, others) rules could also be adopted at the discretion
of the AERC Board of Directors. Both Regional and National Championship
rides would be required to have a steward present from the AERC approved
stewards list.
AWARDS: AERC would provide awards (First through Tenth Places and Best
Condition) for the applicable division of the Regional Championship rides.
AERC would provide awards (First though Tenth Places, Best Condition, and
Completions) for the National Championship rides.
Regional Team and/or weight division awards could also be included
at the discretion of the AERC Board of Directors.
FUNDING: For the Regional Championship rides, participating riders in the
Championship division would pay a modest fee to cover awards (somewhere
between $15 to $25) in addition to the regular ride entry fee. For the
National Championship, the entry fee would be competitive with existing
rides of similar stature; proceeds would be split between AERC ( to cover
advertising, awards, stewards, related office expenses, and any other
expenses as defined in advance) and ride management in a percentage
agreement to be determined by the AERC Board of Directors.
WHO WOULD THIS BENEFIT? As a rider, the qualifications to enter the
Regional Championship rides are reasonable, and you would use your team
career record, thus not requiring an undue amount of financial or physical
stress during the current ride year. Plus you can now answer those
questions of who the 50 or 100 mile AERC National Champion is.
As a Regional Director, nothing more would be required than what is
already being done for the National Championship Series system, and this
system might further healthy competition and unity within your region,
where riders will have an incentive to mutually attend a ride in their
region.
As an AERC Board member, you will have a National Championship
system that benefits the membership and a successful National Championship
Ride that AERC can claim proud ownership of!
Therefore, I respectfully submit this proposal to the AERC Competitions
Committee for their consideration, approval and implementation for the 1999
ride season.
Sincerely & Happitrails!
Brad Patterson,
Mountain Region Director
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
y.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: AN AERC NATIONAL "ONE-DAY" CHAMPIONSHIP
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net, aerc@foothill.net, b-mbobrow@worldnet.att.net,
MBowers472@aol.com, darolyn@swbell.net, ddc@Rt66.com,
renegade12@juno.com, 6032 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002577 06461134716 0013117 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from u2.farm.idt.net (root@u2.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.11]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25087 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:50:50 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34C4B858.3E06@idt.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:44:40 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
References: Conversation <2723d140.34c4017a@aol.com> with last message <2723d140.34c4017a@aol.com> <MAPI.Id.0016.006f6f642e63616d3030304330303043@MAPI.to.RFC822>
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Cam/Shannon Wood wrote: Is there a certain conformation that produces
> this action ? (ie, base wide to begin with?) And has it caused any harm to
> those horses that move this way, or are they all happily trotting down the
> trail with no problems?
>
We have an Arab gelding as skinny and narrow as they come, but he trots
like a Standardbred in the rear, verrry wide. haven't clocked him, but
he is still trotting when others are at a gallop.
Never been lame a day in his life.
tracy
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Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:56:18 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <34C4BA02.46F9@idt.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:51:46 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: kbbaird@rev.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Old Dominion Web site
References: <199801200416.UAA17694@fsr.com>
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> From: Kevin Baird
> Email: kbbaird@rev.net
>
> Check out the Old Dominion web site at:
>
> http://www.olddominionrides.org
>
> for updates and event summaries.
I couldn't get this url to work, comes up server does not have a DNS
entry....
tracy
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: zebella@idt.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Old Dominion Web site
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:37:56 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c4c494.849431@mail.mti.net>
References: <199801200416.UAA17694@fsr.com> <34C4BA02.46F9@idt.net>
In-Reply-To: <34C4BA02.46F9@idt.net>
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 07:51:46 -0700, Zebella <zebella@idt.net> wrote:
>> From: Kevin Baird
>> Email: kbbaird@rev.net
>>
>> Check out the Old Dominion web site at:
>>
>> http://www.olddominionrides.org
>>
>> for updates and event summaries.
>
>
>I couldn't get this url to work, comes up server does not have a DNS
>entry....
I just tried it, and it works fine. The IP address is 206.67.68.214.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:47:19 -0500
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: bolton@pbhs.brevard.k12.fl.us (Rae)
Subject: SS loin rubs---I know not again!!
I have a problem.....I have suddenly, after using my sport saddle
for two years and never had a problem before, started seeing sheared off
hairs over the loins on my arabian----same saddle with the same two skito
pads----interchanging them. These are the steps I have taken up to now:
1. washed my pads carefully---I was thinking it was because I had let them
get a little dirty, 2. bought a sheepskin to put under the skito pad,
still rubbed, 3. tried different pads over the sheepskin---nope, 4.
Tried a different saddle and pad combo(made worse rubs).
I was looking at my set up, the rub isn't at the very end of the
pad, but about two inches before the end of it. And in looking at my
horse, I am noticing how he has changed in body type over the past couple
of years........ he is about 14 or 15 yrs old and started out as a very
round fat "pony"(not really, he is 15 hands), and is now more muscular,
definition to his shoulders, with more prominent withers ------not "sway
backed" even though he is getting a little older. This has all started in
the past two months or so???
It is almost as though my saddle isn't sitting quite level on his
back, when there is no saddle pad under it. Would it help to get a Toklat
saddle pad with a "riser" toward the back end of the saddle? Would that
help?
I know this has been covered before, so if you can help me please
email me privately. Thanks for all input! RAE
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Message-ID: <34C4D554.A57@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:48:27 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
Reply-To: carlmey@citrus.infi.net
Organization: InfiNet
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To: Brad Patterson <mbp@holly.colostate.edu>
CC: equine_athletes@hotmail.com, ridecamp@endurance.net, aerc@foothill.net,
b-mbobrow@worldnet.att.net, MBowers472@aol.com, darolyn@swbell.net,
ddc@Rt66.com, renegade12@juno.com, dfrazier@mail.llion.org,
lynng@access.mountain.net, jackson@inconnect.com, Navarrada@aol.com,
mmsprice@postoffice.ptd.net, LRiedel769@aol.com, RUN4BEAR@aol.com,
step@bluefish.fsr.com, cmiket@aol.com, HULYATE@sembilan.UCHSC.edu,
WWArabsrun@aol.com
Subject: Re: AN AERC NATIONAL "ONE-DAY" CHAMPIONSHIP
References: <v01540b07b0e999c6e610@[129.82.192.141]>
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Congradulations Brad,
I proposed a similar program in June of '97 and was ostracized severly
by many for even thinking that the present AERC Championship series did
not produce a true Champion.
Let's go on with this type of thinking.
Carl Meyer,D.V.M.
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From: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com
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Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:54:25 -0500
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Subject: Dirty Gray Horse
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All this talk about clean houses (no, I don't have one although I
sometimes wish for one..) got me thinking about my filthy horse. My
mare poops and pees all over the place in her stall, walks around
spreading it then lays down in it. I recently built a run off of her
stall hoping she would take care of elimination in one place and sleep
in the other. Wrong. She still poops, pees and sleeps in the stall.
She's gray so her swine-like behavior really shows up. Ideas? I know
SOME horses are actually neat in their stalls.
Karen & Anna
Ormond Beach, Fl (When will it dry up around here?)
6038 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002507 06461156731 0013117 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from fascination.com (root@[209.64.80.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02997 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:24:19 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:26:26 GMT
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: camelot@fascination.com (Cris Potmesil)
Subject: homeopathic handbook ???
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>
Hi all,
For those of you that use homeopathics, what handbook do you use and
refer too? I am looking for a particular one and I can ~see~ the
front cover in my mind by I can't come up with the title or author.
I don't believe the book was particularly horsey but it may have
been. I've searched some on-line book places and the Bookstable site
and I just can't seem to find it. The book is rather smallish, maybe
6"x9" with a yellowish background and what looks like a garland of
herbs, etc. bordering the outline of the book. The title was inside
the border. Any help would be greatly appreciated. :)
Cris
Green River, Wyo.
camelot@fascination.com
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: "REBELCJB" <REBELCJB@aol.com>, <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>,
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:14:41 -0800
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Think chocolate frosting!
----------
> From: REBELCJB <REBELCJB@aol.com>
> To: Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: ride food
> Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 2:56 PM
>
> This Gu stuff sounds really bad. What can you tell us that will make it
sound
> more appetizing?
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From: "Eric & Gail Hought" <hought@humboldt1.com>
To: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Fw: wide gait in hind end
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:41:53 -0800
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----------
> From: Eric & Gail Hought <hought@humboldt1.com>
> To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
> Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 9:33 AM
>
> My first endurance horse was fast like that. She was a quarter horse.
> Very fast, too competitive, stayed sound (Was sound when she died at age
> 28).
> I've always thought that all horse move wide behind when they learn to do
> what we call an extended trot. Some call it a racing trot. I would
think
> is the only they could do it without interferring. I thought that most
> breeds of horses you might use for endurance would be capable of doing
that
> type of trot. I have noticed it takes some a long time to learn it. I
> usually just let them work into it on their own. I think most of them
need
> to have built up good muscle strength and conditioning first. But some
are
> just naturals at it right away. That's my .02 anyway.
>
> Gail
>
> hought@humboldt1.com
>
> http://www.hought.com
>
>
>
> ----------
> > From: Linda S. Flemmer <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
> > To: Kathy Myers <kathy@nvolve.com>
> > Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
> > Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 6:55 PM
> >
> > > >Most Standardbreds have a wide gait in the hind end
> >
> > Kathy Myers wrote:
> > > Actually, some good Arabs move quite wide in rear too...
> > > is it a pedigree thing?
> >
> > My husband's TB/QH cross travels this way. He is very atypical for a
QH
> > cross...(sadly mistaken for a Standardbred or Morgan something cross)
> > He "squats" and "spreads" as he picks up a big, ground eating trot that
> > has been clocked by car at 22 mph. Too fast for Rocket & I to keep up
> > with at a trot. Doesn't sound breed related, to me. Major learned to
> > do this over a period of his first 2 years of conditioning.
> >
> > Linda Flemmer
> > Blue Wolf Ranch
> > Bruceton Mills, WV
> >
ehind when they learn to do
> what we call an extended trot. Some call it a racing trot. I would
think
> is the only they could do it without interferring. I thought that most
> breeds of horses you might use for endurance would be capable of doing
that
> type of trot. I have noticed it takes some a long time to learn it. I
> usually just let the6041 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001524 06461161523 0013102 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from www.endurance.net (tuna.fsr.com [207.141.24.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA05157 for ridecamp@endurance.net; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:47:58 -0800 (PST)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:47:58 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801201747.JAA05157@fsr.com>
Subject: AERC Convention Directions
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Susan Kasemeyer
Email: ndurn@aol.com
Here are driving directions to the Convention. Got them off the back of my room conformation.
From I-75 Take exit ll3 <Paris/Lexington> and turn right on Broadway 3 miles into downtown Lexington. Turn right on High Street and turn right into driveway. This is Hyatt Regency.
Looking forward to seeing old friends and meeting a bunch of new ones.
Susan Kasemeyer
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "VMAXEPT" <VMAXEPT@aol.com>, <paus@micoks.net>, <delvecchio@geocities.com>,
<simimaus@webtv.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Rescue Remedy
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:48:36 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd25cb$a24a2980$LocalHost@duncanfl>
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If it calms the horse, it is affecting his performance. Any substance (as
opposed to say your actions or voice) that is calming the horse is having a
pharmalogical effect. If it is not food, it is a drug.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
To: paus@micoks.net <paus@micoks.net>; delvecchio@geocities.com
<delvecchio@geocities.com>; simimaus@webtv.net <simimaus@webtv.net>
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: Rescue Remedy
>In a message dated 98-01-19 20:48:50 EST, paus@micoks.net writes:
>
><< I have used Rescue Remedy, too. NOt in competition (on Star), but on me
in
> competition and for getting Star over the jitters in training. I haven't
> used it in competition because i figured it would be a banned drug. Is
this
> true?
> >>
>its not a drug.. so it would be up the personal convictions of the rider..
>its better then a wreck with a new horse at the start..
>and does mask a problem or cause a pharmacalogic effect to improve the
>performance of the horse..
>your call..
>roger r
>mellow
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:02:58 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: convention
Hi All!
Won't make the convention personally, but I'd like to
mention that RideCamp T-Shirts and Sweatshirts are also
great ways to identify each other. And they give you
something to pin your button on!
I bought a sweatshirt in Dec. last year... it is very
very good quality. I wear it all the time (I work in
t-shirts, sweatshirts, jeans and tennies :) ), wear it
to the ranch, wash it a lot and it is still in great shape.
Looks spiffy too! And one day in Starbucks a girl and
her dad noticed it, asked me about it, and said they were
new endurance riders!
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4abfa0b7.34c4e562@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:56:45 EST
To: lth@lightspeed.net, PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: english vs endurance model saddles
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Hi I sent the last message out to the rider asking the
question. I use english saddles, different ones on
different mounts so I have a Stubeun survival, a Tristen
a ThroGood, a Jessica dressage. I also have a Germen
made hand custom that I picked up reasonabily. It is a
forward seat hunt.I don't really care for synthetic.
If the saddle does not have enough rings and things I
take them to a saddle maker and have them added.
I have tried a Big Horn endurance and liked it very
much.
Marcy
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From: Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <52affe58.34c4ef5c@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:39:21 EST
To: wood.cameron@acd.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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In a message dated 98-01-20 08:15:10 EST, wood.cameron@acd.net writes:
> I've always been taught that
> straight movement is best, and any other way of going causes strain on
> tendons, joints & muscles.
It has always been my impression (and would like to hear confirming/opposing
views) that horses traveling at a fast trot or climbing a steep hill will
widen the placement of their hind feet to avoid overreaching and striking the
front feet/legs. It is not a conformational thing. And I've also been
taught, as Shannon says, that this way of going is hard on the tendons and
ligaments especially and should be avoided.
Linda
San Francisco
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From: LazyJArabs <LazyJArabs@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ac980dc1.34c4f5ab@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:06:17 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
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For in-the-pocket-energy, I love Clif bars. Most outdoors stores carry them
and sometimes Costco, and some grocery stores. Shop around for the best price.
In my area, they are $.89/ea at Trader Joe's, but over $1.00 at REI. Various
flavors, but my favorites are Peanut Butter and Chocolate Chip Peanut. They
have other "fruity" types and even an espresso one if you need the caffeine
boost. These are more like granola bars and no nasty after taste/burps like
Power Bars.
Power Bars are NASTY! As is Gu (Goo) and Power Gel, etc.
Pre-ride:
Not much of anything. Stomach was too upset. <grin>
Clif Bar about an hour or so later did the trick.
Beverage wise:
Gatorade (original flavor) (on trail in my water bottle)
Carbonated beverages (Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, 7-Up, etc)
Lunchtime:
Cheese
Melba toast
Pepperoni
Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup (would be awesome I bet, but haven't tried it
yet)
Fritos, Cheetos, Potato Chips
Raisins
Cookies
Post ride:
Beer (REALLY GOOD beer, like Red Hook, Pyramid, Spanish Peaks, Widmer. No Bud,
Bud Light, cheap beer, etc.) (this is assuming I am not the one driving home
right after we're done, of course)
Pasta
Hot dogs
Elizabeth Johanson & CA Royalty (Ariel)
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/eajohanson/ArabianWebs/">Arabian Web Sites</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/lazyjarabs/">Lazy J Arabians</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/wildhrsemm/">Wild Horse Multimedia</A>
Maple Valley/Hobart, Washington, USA
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:44:26 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Lynne@Glazer.org
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Auto vs Stick
References: <12c3430.34c0d7f1@aol.com> <34C0FB68.4610@cyberg8t.com>
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A gear splitter
> would be $2k, invalidates the warranty for anyone who still has one; I
> had to chuckle at blasting through the "extended 2 yr warranty"
> mileage-wise in less than a year.
OK, so can anyone tell me what a gear splitter is? Is it something like
adding a "granny gear" down at the bottom end---our big trailer gets
pulled just fine also on the flats but I worry that I may someday have
to go slowly up a big hill and need something more.
Re blowing through the extended warranties, I think my husband David
wins the prize---we bought him a new Honda and he blew through the
100,000 mile warranty in 18 months!
Susan
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Message-ID: <34C50209.335A@earthlink.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:59:05 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
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To: Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
References: <52affe58.34c4ef5c@aol.com>
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Chaco L wrote:
> that horses traveling at a fast trot or climbing a steep hill will
> widen the placement of their hind feet to avoid overreaching and striking the
> front feet/legs. It is not a conformational thing. And I've also been
> taught, as Shannon says, that this way of going is hard on the tendons and
> ligaments especially and should be avoided.
I cannot speak for others, but our 3 horses that trotted this way would
have sliced their front legs off mid cannon if they didn't widen up in
back to prevent interfering. They overstepped by 8-12 inches. Flat
work vs hills doesn't seem to make a difference. They will do it at a
fast or slow trot, slow/fast being cadence. We extend and collect to
manage speed most times.
The horses are sound - Kid is now 14 with 9 years trotting like this.
Major is 16 going on 17, learned this at age 6, still going strong &
competing in 50's (when my husband gets around to entering). Buster was
an ex Standardbred racer from off the track. He trotted like this from
age 2 thru his retirement at age 26. He was sound as a dollar.
I see this widening as a steadier base and a natural way to avoid
trashing their front legs. We encourage this gait in our horses,
although not all of them learn it or prefer to do it. I'd like to hear
from somebody that can link this to a definite unsoundness.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:32:59 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: saddle types..more questions
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Wow! I've received 30 answers on what type of saddles people use...and
30 different saddles!!! I'm recording this stuff on a lotus
spreadsheet if anyone is interested later on...I'll post and ask. So
please, keep sending me your suggestions! I'm also passing this on to a
friend who is also on the big saddle hunt.
Questions:
1.. What is the difference between an all-purpose seat and an eventing
seat?
2.. On the endurance types...do they lean more toward the "english" tree
or more toward the "western" tree and twist? Can you do arena work with
the endurance models?
3..Any other stubben owners out there I'd like to hear from you too.
Thanks again! You are all great!
Kimberly & Mystery the Morab...big, wide, and full of himself these
days!
PS: remember to post to me, don't clutter the list, I'll give some
results later on.
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From: "Barb Martineau" <mcshasa@email.msn.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re:hackamores
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:41:58 -0800
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>I'm interested in learning EXACTLY what is the difference between the
>Western hackamore, the English hackamore and now the Arab S hackamore. How
>do they work differently on the horse, which is milder and harsher and why?
>
>I have an old western hackamore hanging on the wall that I will try IF it
>ever stops raining.
>
>Barb and Mac
>
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:45:44 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980118100412.14865D-100000@consider.theneteffect.com>
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Glenda R. Snodgrass wrote:
>
> Since my first appeal, posted on Jan 1, only garnered 4 replies with one
> food each, I am assuming (hoping?) it simply got lost in your collective
> holiday email backlogs and was deleted without being read first. <g> I
> actually got more "I'm so glad you're asking this question" replies than
> I did answers. :(
>
> So, here's the deal: I'm looking for suggestions of good foods to eat
> just before and during a ride -- things that will stick to your ribs
> without upsetting your tummy, things that keep well, pack well, etc. I'll
> collect the responses and put them in a FAQ that maybe Steph could post on
> endurance.net. So far this is what I have:
>
> pop tarts
> cold milk
> applesauce & mandarin orange slices
> Honey Peanut Balance bar
>
> Oh, yes, Tracy said to be sure and NOT eat "hotter than hot" enchiladas :)
>
> So? Favorite foods or simple recipes, please!
>
> Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
Well, okay, here's mine---before the ride, I found an Instant Breakfast,
preferably made with warm milk really is easy to get down and keeps me
going. If you mix a teaspoon of instant coffee into the chocolate
flavor, you get the caffeine (mandatory in my case) and turn it into a
sort of cappucino-tasting thing that's really good.
At a lunch stop and after a ride, nothing sits as well as chilled
fruit---honeydew, watermelon, grapes, bananas, etc. Pasta salad, or
even just cold spaghetti is pretty good. If you send out cold pasta in
an ice chest or something, don't make the mistake of using a high-fat
sauce---there's nothing worse than trotting down the trail trying to get
congealed grease off the roof of your mouth. If I have to send a
non-chilled lunch out on the truck or even carry it in my bag, oranges
survive well amid bouncing.
On the trail itself, I found a nifty little goo-bottle and holster at
REI that I velcroed to the saddle pommel, so I can just squeeze a bit
into my mouth every now and then. It tastes marginally better than
Power Bars and doesn't have to be chewed, just sort of slurped down.
The bottle is small and unobtrusive, but still holds several of the Gu
packets without having to mess with wrappers, etc on the trail.
I also found out that those little cans of Ensure are life savers.
Someone handed one to me a couple years ago at Tevis when I was really
bottoming out and it worked wonders. Maybe another cold can of Instant
Breakfast would also work, I haven't tried them mid-day. Probably
would.
I remember one hot ride after which someone handed me a smoothie made of
bananas, fruit juice, ice and umm, well, an awful lot of rum and I
thought I'd died and gone to heaven. Maybe making up something like
this (with or without rum) ahead of time, freezing it solid and keeping
it well buried in ice so it wasn't totally defrosted by the end of the
ride would work.
At the other extreme, the sickest I've EVER been at a ride was after
someone gave me an ice-cold soda after the finish and I chugged it
down. An hour later I was doing the technicolor yawn aka Laughing at
the Ground alongside the road and wishing someone would just shoot me.
Never again.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:50:27 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
CC: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: beet pulp pellets
References: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980118113121.18309A-100000@mallard>
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> I think that someone on here, Susan G? maybe that said there should be no
> ill effects for the horse to eat it without soaking in some instances?
> I'm not sure, don't do that personally, but have had a friends mare get
> into her beet pulp pellets--dry--and she was fine after eating some. She
> loves it wet, but didn't get so gung ho on the dry though.
I don't like feeding anything over a cup or so of beet pulp without
soaking it---alot of people do feed appreciable amounts of it dry, and
get away with it, but other horses HAVE choked on it or had tummy
troubles after eating alot dry, taking a big drink, then having it
expand in the tummy and gut. My motto is Better Safe Than Sorry. If
nothing else, most horses seem to like it wet alot better than dry, so
why not keep them happy?
Susan Garlinghouse
@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: beet pulp pellets
References: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980118113121.18309A-100000@mallard>
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> I think that someone on here, Susan G? maybe that said there should be no
> ill effects for t6053 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002064 06461212713 0013103 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.netbistro.com (vortex.netbistro.com [204.239.167.1]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA20616 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:23:18 -0800 (PST)
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From: "G & J Thom" <thomlabs@netbistro.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Wide Gait in Hind End
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:57:49 -0800
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I owned two mares and one gelding all from the same
breeding and all three horses had a wide gait in the
hind end. I also own a mother and her daughter and
the mother does this but the daughter does not.
What are the benefits of a horse with a wide gait in the
hind end???
Julia
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <443e3664.34c5147d@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:17:47 EST
To: carlmey@citrus.infi.net, mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Cc: equine_athletes@hotmail.com, ridecamp@endurance.net, aerc@foothill.net,
b-mbobrow@worldnet.att.net, MBowers472@aol.com, darolyn@swbell.net,
ddc@Rt66.com, renegade12@juno.com, dfrazier@mail.llion.org,
lynng@access.mountain.net, jackson@inconnect.com, Navarrada@aol.com,
mmsprice@postoffice.ptd.net, LRiedel769@aol.com, step@bluefish.fsr.com,
CMikeT@aol.com, HULYATE@sembilan.UCHSC.edu, WWArabsrun@aol.com
Subject: Re: AN AERC NATIONAL "ONE-DAY" CHAMPIONSHIP
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HEY, WHERE HAVE YOU ALL BEEN?
AERC used to have almost the same system in effect...but the AERC MEMBERSHIP
did not like it...said it involved too much travel and only those with $$$
could participate...SO, YOUR BOD responded with the current system.
I vote to support Brad's (and AERC's old) way of having a National
Championship...
Sometimes I think we DON'T think before we make changes...
Teddy
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:32:57 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801202232.OAA24147@fsr.com>
Subject: zes saddle update
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Adrienne Pape
Email: pape@students.uiuc.edu
To those of you attending the convention, the Zes saddle previously mentioned is still available. The price is now $725. If interested, you can contact bruce nagel at: nagl@midwest.net
If you don't get ahold of us before hand, we'll see you there. Thank you,
adrienne 217-344-6944
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:43:49 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Lysane Cree <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Nutrition
References: <199801192125.QAA24391@sirocco.CC.McGill.CA>
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Lysane Cree wrote:
>
> I have a couple of questions about nutrition:
> 1)How much selenium is
> too much? And what does too much selenium do exactly?
Maximum tolerable levels in horses is 2 mg/kg of diet. Toxic levels are
around 3.3 mg of selenium per kg of body weight. Chronic (as in getting
too much but not yet lethal) shows up as hair loss, especially around
the mane and tail and cracking of the hooves around the coronary band.
A lethal dose looks alot like an extreme colic, and/or blindness,
staggering high HR, diarrhea, etc.
Something else to keep in mind is that selenium levels in hay are highly
variable throughout the country. The NW, NE, portions of the Great
Lakes areas and SE tend to be low in Se; parts of the SW and throughout
the Midwest can be high in Se. Ask your feed store where your hay is
coming from and if it's coming from an area that you suspect might be
high in Se, give your country extension agent a call, they'll be able to
tell you what representative Se levels are for that level. You can also
get a hay sample analyzed, but that won't help much if next month's load
of hay comes from a different area.
You might also consider that if you're feeding a balanced feed such as
Omolene, plus good quality hay, it's unlikely you need an additional
vitamin-mineral supplement on top of that. The most common source of Se
poisoning does result as feeding too much through oversupplementation in
one form or another. However, you said you're not feeding much, so it's
probably unlikely you're pushing the envelope on selenium. Just don't
go overboard on too much of the vit-min supplement.
> 2)I have purchased some Farrier's Magic (same idea as Farrier's
> Formula) to add some biotin in my horse's diet. There is also copper
> and zinc in Farrier's Magic. Now, my regular vitamin/mineral supplement
> also has copper and zinc in it. I have read that copper and zinc need
> to be balanced (in a similar fashion as calcium and phosphorous need
> to be balanced). Again, numbers are calculated as to what is in the
> entire container of Farrier's Magic (an 11 pound container).
> The scoop in that case has written on it 60 cc and you are supposed to
> feed 4 of those scoops/day. My question is whether I should be
> feeding both the Farrier's Magic and the vitamin/mineral supplement
> at the same time? or should I not feed the vitamin/mineral supplement
> when I feed Farrier's Magic (or vice versa)?
> Help!
You're not feeding enough of either supplement for it to be a concern.
Both sources are balanced (I assume) in their Cu-Zn levels, and assuming
you're not feeding entire bucketfuls, excessive levels aren't a
problem. Don't lose sleep over it. However, since all you said you're
looking for is a source of biotin, you might try looking around and
finding a source of JUST biotin (more or less) without having to pay for
more copper, zinc, etc that your horse doesn't need more of.
Hope this helps. Stay warm.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Lysane Cree wrote:
>
> I have a couple of questions about nutrition:
> 1)How much selenium is
> too much? And what does too much seleniu6057 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002060 06461225771 0013113 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from pimaia2w.prodigy.com (pimaia2w.prodigy.com [198.83.19.115]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA26411 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:57:57 -0800 (PST)
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:51:32, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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A lot of Russian Arabian horses trot wide behind. They have an unusually
powerful hind end. Some horses develop it from conditioning, others from
an avoidance of overreaching.....
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
OK
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:34:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Kachina <kachina@ecis.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Convention...
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Big whoops on my part...
Does anyone know if you can get tickets at the door?
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:37:32 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
Reply-To: Lynne@Glazer.org
Organization: Lynne Glazer Microsystems
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CC: Lynne@Glazer.org, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Auto vs Stick
References: <12c3430.34c0d7f1@aol.com> <34C0FB68.4610@cyberg8t.com> <34C4FE9A.27A1@worldnet.att.net>
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Susan, and anybody else interested in improving their automatic
transmission's performance.
Gear splitters--well, like we've been talking about, auto transmissions
with 3 gears and a factory overdrive work well for ordinary duty, but
not for heavy duty towing especially on hills. A gear splitter is like
an auxillary transmission that give you extra gears for both climbing
hills and better fuel economy when cruising.
For those with 3 speed transmissions, the available packages give the
advantage of o/d and a gear splitter both. The o/d lowers engine revs
to reduce fuel consumption and engine wear, and the additional gear
splits make it easier to climb hills and pass the slow guys. That's my
big whine, my 3rd gear is very inefficient.
>From the literature out there, the gaps between the gears of the newer 4
speed o/d transmissions have stayed the same or become even wider, so a
splitter is still needed to prevent over-revving in too low a gear, or
lugging in too tall a gear.
According to Gear Vendors, the tall gear of factory o/d can cause an
engine to lug when fighting a head wind, climbing a grade, or towing.
The appealing thing is that this aux tranny can be shifted at ANY
throttle position with the touch of a button!
But it's pricey. The next truck I buy will have one though.
Lynne
and Rem-member Me
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:12:21 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
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This is my good training buddy's response to not doing housework. I'm
trying to get her to do competitive rides with us!
chris paus & star
>Return-Path: <TOM_OWEN_PCG@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
>Delivered-To: paus@micoks.net
>Reply-To: "TOM OWEN" <TOM_OWEN_PCG@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
>From: "TOM OWEN" <TOM_OWEN_PCG@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
>To: "Chris Paus" <paus@micoks.net>
>Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:51:50 -0600
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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>
>Put in this equation in the arguement * things that keep me from riding-*
>"dinners in 30 minutes or less". Hell, you can make a bowl of cereal in a
>minute- beat that for dinner prep time!!
>
>Leslie
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
>To: TOM_OWEN_PCG@MSN.COM <TOM_OWEN_PCG@MSN.COM>
>Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 7:54 PM
>Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
>
>
>>more on housework, vs riding...
>>
>>>Return-Path: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>>>Delivered-To: paus@micoks.net
>>>Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:50:19 -0800 (PST)
>>>Resent-From: ridecamp@endurance.net
>>>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:06:33 -0800
>>>From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
>>>Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
>>>To: tetervin@bms.com
>>>CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>>>Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
>>>Resent-Message-ID: <"ABUCV2.0.pA7.TVsmq"@starfish>
>>>X-Mailing-List: <ridecamp@endurance.net> archive/latest/5965
>>>X-Loop: ridecamp@endurance.net
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>>>
>>>tetervin@bms.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi- That's pretty much how I do things, and yesterday I took an hour
>(about
>>>> all I can stand) to chip away at the crud in the kitchen. It was truly
>>>> disgusting but I try to keep in mind that life is very short so I went
>>out for
>>>> nice ride instead of finishing the job. Life is too short to clean
>>house!Take
>>>> care-Amy and Joselle
>>>
>>>I think many have that same feeling. For the Warner Springs and
>>>Manzanita Ride, I had shirts made that say -- Boring Women Have
>>>Immaculate Homes. No offense to those who do horses and have immaculate
>>>homes, but if you have to choose . . .
>>>
>>>Terry Woolley Howe
>>>San Diego
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
TOM_OWEN_PCG@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
>From: "TOM OWEN" <TOM_OWEN_PC6061 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005141 06461237117 0013106 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from onramp.micoks.net (onramp.micoks.net [209.153.98.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA01368 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:16:10 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:15:14 -0600
To: LazyJArabs <LazyJArabs@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
In-Reply-To: <ac980dc1.34c4f5ab@aol.com>
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Just a request to everyone who contributes to the pre-ride potluck dinners.
Remember SOME of us are vegetarians. I always try to bring a big salad or
main dish that veggies and carnivores both would like, but sometimes it is
slim pickins' there for us. (although I'm in no danger of wasting away.)
chris paus & star
At 02:06 PM 1/20/98 EST, LazyJArabs wrote:
>For in-the-pocket-energy, I love Clif bars. Most outdoors stores carry them
>and sometimes Costco, and some grocery stores. Shop around for the best
price.
>In my area, they are $.89/ea at Trader Joe's, but over $1.00 at REI. Various
>flavors, but my favorites are Peanut Butter and Chocolate Chip Peanut. They
>have other "fruity" types and even an espresso one if you need the caffeine
>boost. These are more like granola bars and no nasty after taste/burps like
>Power Bars.
>
>Power Bars are NASTY! As is Gu (Goo) and Power Gel, etc.
>
>Pre-ride:
>Not much of anything. Stomach was too upset. <grin>
>Clif Bar about an hour or so later did the trick.
>
>Beverage wise:
>Gatorade (original flavor) (on trail in my water bottle)
>Carbonated beverages (Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, 7-Up, etc)
>
>Lunchtime:
>Cheese
>Melba toast
>Pepperoni
>Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup (would be awesome I bet, but haven't tried it
>yet)
>Fritos, Cheetos, Potato Chips
>Raisins
>Cookies
>
>Post ride:
>Beer (REALLY GOOD beer, like Red Hook, Pyramid, Spanish Peaks, Widmer. No
Bud,
>Bud Light, cheap beer, etc.) (this is assuming I am not the one driving home
>right after we're done, of course)
>Pasta
>Hot dogs
>
>Elizabeth Johanson & CA Royalty (Ariel)
><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/eajohanson/ArabianWebs/">Arabian Web
Sites</A>
><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/lazyjarabs/">Lazy J Arabians</A>
><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/wildhrsemm/">Wild Horse Multimedia</A>
>Maple Valley/Hobart, Washington, USA
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:16:23 -0600
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: saddle types..more questions
In-Reply-To: <34C509FB.365@ix.netcom.com>
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Stubbens are wonderful saddles, HOWEVER, their widest tree is not wide
enough for many Arabs.
chris paus & star (who has done the saddle fitting odyssey)
At 12:32 PM 1/20/98 -0800, Kimberly Price wrote:
>Wow! I've received 30 answers on what type of saddles people use...and
>30 different saddles!!! I'm recording this stuff on a lotus
>spreadsheet if anyone is interested later on...I'll post and ask. So
>please, keep sending me your suggestions! I'm also passing this on to a
>friend who is also on the big saddle hunt.
>
>Questions:
>1.. What is the difference between an all-purpose seat and an eventing
>seat?
>
>2.. On the endurance types...do they lean more toward the "english" tree
>or more toward the "western" tree and twist? Can you do arena work with
>the endurance models?
>
>3..Any other stubben owners out there I'd like to hear from you too.
>
>Thanks again! You are all great!
>Kimberly & Mystery the Morab...big, wide, and full of himself these
>days!
>
>PS: remember to post to me, don't clutter the list, I'll give some
>results later on.
>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:19:30 -0600
To: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
In-Reply-To: <199801202251.RAB04434@mime4.prodigy.com>
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I have never watched Star's trot from behind (I'm always on him), but when
I first got him, he had a terrible overreach and his feet clicked together
a lot. Now I don't notice it so much. Maybe as he's gotten in better
condition, he is learning better feet placement??
chris paus & star
At 05:51 PM 1/20/98 -0500, MS LOUISE D BURTON wrote:
>A lot of Russian Arabian horses trot wide behind. They have an unusually
>powerful hind end. Some horses develop it from conditioning, others from
>an avoidance of overreaching.....
>Louise Burton
>Firedance Farms Arabians
>OK
>
>
>
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by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id T|E14354; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:27:47 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:30:10 EST
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
Message-ID: <19980120.203011.4926.0.benamil@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,6-7,9-26
From: benamil@juno.com (David Bennett)
I trotted Ben Amil out for Ray Randall when vetting in at last year's
Biltmore Ride. When we got back he said "Well, he won't interfere. He
goes like a goose with turpentine up his butt!" Actually, Ben does what
I call the Arab squat - gets very wide as his trot gets faster and he
over-extends quite a bit. Never known him to interfere and hurt himself
while doing this, either...
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:06:31 -0800 "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
writes:
>>Most Standardbreds have a wide gait in the hind end when they get
>going,
>>unlike most riding horses who stay fairly vertical in comparison.
>
>Actually, some good Arabs move quite wide in rear too...
>is it a pedigree thing? Not in reference to the Jock-strap
>question, just an observation.
>
>:) - kat myers
>in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
>... whose farrier has been known watch the QH/Arab
>cross and say "Hey, that horse looks like he's trying
>to trot with a load in his pants!" :) :) :)
>
>
>
--------- End forwarded message ----------
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From: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
Message-ID: <644d8196.34c53159@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:20:55 EST
To: zebella@idt.net, grs@theneteffect.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Re: ride food
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Plums travel the worst of all! (1972) I learned a lot on that first NATRC
ride.
(and they leave purple drip marks down Appy flanks)... CS
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From: dpfreed@webtv.net (David Freed)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 16:51:47 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: ride food
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We ride where summers are hot and I have found that washing and freezing
grapes for the trail provides a refreshing snack.! Use a container that
works for you. jan freed
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:16:02 -0600 (CST)
To: paus@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
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Hi Everyone,
I love the responses about housework!!! Last summer I was
home one weekend the whole summer!! Talk about dust!!
Since we are either training, driving to races or racing...who
has the time and who cares, we have these horses to RIDE THEM!!
We have 11 horses, three in foal, three dogs, three cats, 2 kids (one is an
adult) over 50!!! so... I have alot of fun cleaning stalls and around the
windbreaks outside, but you know it more fun to ride than do housework!!
It's great for stress!! I developed the attitude if it gets done it will,
if it doesn't
oh well, there's always another day!!
Plus, I guess I'm lucky, my husband is the one who is really in this
sport, Amber (our Junior rider) and I are the newbies, so I guess I can let
the house go for alittle while!!!
Have a great evening!!!
Diane Fruth
Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Chris Paus wrote...
>This is my good training buddy's response to not doing housework. I'm
>trying to get her to do competitive rides with us!
>
>chris paus & star
>
>>Return-Path: <TOM_OWEN_PCG@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
>>Delivered-To: paus@micoks.net
>>Reply-To: "TOM OWEN" <TOM_OWEN_PCG@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
>>From: "TOM OWEN" <TOM_OWEN_PCG@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
>>To: "Chris Paus" <paus@micoks.net>
>>Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
>>Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:51:50 -0600
>>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3
>>Return-Path: TOM_OWEN_PCG@EMAIL.MSN.COM
>>
>>Put in this equation in the arguement * things that keep me from riding-*
>>"dinners in 30 minutes or less". Hell, you can make a bowl of cereal in a
>>minute- beat that for dinner prep time!!
>>
>>Leslie
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
>>To: TOM_OWEN_PCG@MSN.COM <TOM_OWEN_PCG@MSN.COM>
>>Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 7:54 PM
>>Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
>>
>>
>>>more on housework, vs riding...
>>>
>>>>Return-Path: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>>>>Delivered-To: paus@micoks.net
>>>>Resent-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:50:19 -0800 (PST)
>>>>Resent-From: ridecamp@endurance.net
>>>>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 07:06:33 -0800
>>>>From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
>>>>Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
>>>>To: tetervin@bms.com
>>>>CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>>>>Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
>>>>Resent-Message-ID: <"ABUCV2.0.pA7.TVsmq"@starfish>
>>>>X-Mailing-List: <ridecamp@endurance.net> archive/latest/5965
>>>>X-Loop: ridecamp@endurance.net
>>>>Resent-Sender: ridecamp-request@endurance.net
>>>>
>>>>tetervin@bms.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi- That's pretty much how I do things, and yesterday I took an hour
>>(about
>>>>> all I can stand) to chip away at the crud in the kitchen. It was truly
>>>>> disgusting but I try to keep in mind that life is very short so I went
>>>out for
>>>>> nice ride instead of finishing the job. Life is too short to clean
>>>house!Take
>>>>> care-Amy and Joselle
>>>>
>>>>I think many have that same feeling. For the Warner Springs and
>>>>Manzanita Ride, I had shirts made that say -- Boring Women Have
>>>>Immaculate Homes. No offense to those who do horses and have immaculate
>>>>homes, but if you have to choose . . .
>>>>
>>>>Terry Woolley Howe
>>>>San Diego
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:22:26 -0600 (CST)
To: paus@micoks.net, LazyJArabs@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
X-Mailer: Correspond 3.0
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Hey Chris,
Good to hear about those vegetarians, I'm married to one!!
We love on pasta, fruit, rice and bread!!! One rides for Jerry,
I make a homemade chicken noodle soup (hardly any chicken
in it at all), that's for our cold ,wet rides... Apples, grapes,
watermelon, cantaloupe,carrot sticks, crackers...etc..
He loves M&M's....We always have apples for the horses,
right!!
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Chris Paus wrote...
>Just a request to everyone who contributes to the pre-ride potluck dinners.
>Remember SOME of us are vegetarians. I always try to bring a big salad or
>main dish that veggies and carnivores both would like, but sometimes it is
>slim pickins' there for us. (although I'm in no danger of wasting away.)
>
>chris paus & star
>
>At 02:06 PM 1/20/98 EST, LazyJArabs wrote:
>>For in-the-pocket-energy, I love Clif bars. Most outdoors stores carry them
>>and sometimes Costco, and some grocery stores. Shop around for the best
>price.
>>In my area, they are $.89/ea at Trader Joe's, but over $1.00 at REI. Various
>>flavors, but my favorites are Peanut Butter and Chocolate Chip Peanut. They
>>have other "fruity" types and even an espresso one if you need the caffeine
>>boost. These are more like granola bars and no nasty after taste/burps like
>>Power Bars.
>>
>>Power Bars are NASTY! As is Gu (Goo) and Power Gel, etc.
>>
>>Pre-ride:
>>Not much of anything. Stomach was too upset. <grin>
>>Clif Bar about an hour or so later did the trick.
>>
>>Beverage wise:
>>Gatorade (original flavor) (on trail in my water bottle)
>>Carbonated beverages (Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, 7-Up, etc)
>>
>>Lunchtime:
>>Cheese
>>Melba toast
>>Pepperoni
>>Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup (would be awesome I bet, but haven't tried it
>>yet)
>>Fritos, Cheetos, Potato Chips
>>Raisins
>>Cookies
>>
>>Post ride:
>>Beer (REALLY GOOD beer, like Red Hook, Pyramid, Spanish Peaks, Widmer. No
>Bud,
>>Bud Light, cheap beer, etc.) (this is assuming I am not the one driving home
>>right after we're done, of course)
>>Pasta
>>Hot dogs
>>
>>Elizabeth Johanson & CA Royalty (Ariel)
>><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/eajohanson/ArabianWebs/">Arabian Web
>Sites</A>
>><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/lazyjarabs/">Lazy J Arabians</A>
>><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/wildhrsemm/">Wild Horse Multimedia</A>
>>Maple Valley/Hobart, Washington, USA
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:37:08 -0700
From: "Marcus R. Hoff" <mrhoff@srv.net>
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To: "ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Wolverine Enurance Race
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We are developing a brand new ride camp and race route for the Wolverine
ride near Idaho Falls, ID. June 6 1998.
30/50 and a pleasure ride approximately 10 miles.
Ride camp will be on private ground, no public roads through camp.
There is a stream through camp and a small reservoir near by. Lot's of
room for camp and corrals. This is the 25 th anniversary of this race,
and
hopefully this camp will develop in to a fantastic ride camp for years
to come.
Location is 9 miles SE of Idaho Falls on Rainbow Ranch. All but 1 1/2
miles paved
roads.
More information later.
M.R.Hoff
HORSE-N-AROUND
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:00:16 -0500 (EST)
From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: saddle types..more questions
In-Reply-To: <34C509FB.365@ix.netcom.com>
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, Kimberly Price wrote:
> Wow! I've received 30 answers on what type of saddles people use...and
> 30 different saddles!!! I'm recording this stuff on a lotus
> spreadsheet if anyone is interested later on...I'll post and ask. So
> please, keep sending me your suggestions! I'm also passing this on to a
> friend who is also on the big saddle hunt.
>
> PS: remember to post to me, don't clutter the list, I'll give some
> results later on.
>
Please remember that the purpose of a list like this is to share
information. I have exactly your question and am interested in
exactly the types of responses that you are now receiving only
privately. I would have liked to have seen all the replies
that you got, and I would like to see the responses that you
get to these new questions of yours.
You seem excessively concerned about "cluttering the list."
In fact, all you are doing is restricting the flow of useful
information to yourself.
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:05:50 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801210205.SAA10761@fsr.com>
Subject: Inet College P.E. Credit for Equestrian Activities
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Jim G. Phillips, Ed.D.
Email: Rodeo@dcccd.edu
Eastfield College in Mesquite,Texas offers one hour of P.E. credit (repeatable) for rodeo or equestrian activities(done anywhere) via the Internet. Registration, documentation, syllabus, etc. are all available on the course homepage at http://ollie.dcccd.edu/phed1100 The instructor, Jim G. Phillips Ed.D., is a full time community college professor, serves as a faculty advisor to The Eastfield Rodeo Club, has a beef cow operation, raises and trains Quarter Horses, is a calf roper and competes in endrance riding. Phillips Flying Ranch is annually the site for several Eastfield Rodeo Club Events as well as serving as campsite for the popular "Poetry Fantasy Flight " endurance ride. This courseis designed to accommodate a wide variety of rodeo or equestrian activities and all ages and abilities. Our most "junior " member is 17 while ourmost "senior" participant is 80 years young. A partial list of participant accomplishments may be viewed at The Eastfield Rodeo Club Homepage at http://www.efc.dcccd.edu/bis/rodeo/ Several full and partial scholarships have been awarded due to the fund raising efforts of the rodeo club. In order to be considered for a scholarship one must have been previously enrolled in the Eastfield Rodeo/Equestrian P.E. Class as well as be currently enrolled in the course. The instructor may be contacted by e-mail at rodeo@dcccd.edu or by phone at 972-860-8343 or by "snail mail" at Jim G. Phillips,Ed.D., Eastfield College, 3737 Motley, Mesquite, Texas 75150. The Eastfield College Admissions Office phone number is 972-860-7100.
vailable on the course homepage at http://ollie.dcccd.edu/phed1100 The instructor, Jim G. Phillips Ed.D., is a full time community college professor, serves as a faculty advisor to The Eastfield Rodeo Club, has a beef cow operation, raises and trains Quarter Horses, is a calf roper and competes in endr6072 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000004004 06461254222 0013101 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net (root@lsbsdi1.lightspeed.net [204.216.64.33]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA11428 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:08:00 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:47:30 -0800
From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
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Subject: Selinium requirements
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I can't seem to find agreement on the amount of selinium a horse needs and what is
toxic. Below I have summarized information from posts to this group and some books.
I have calculated the required and toxic amounts below for a 900 lb horse eating 20
lb.s of food per day.
Heidi Smith DVM says 8 to 10 mg/day is correct and 60 to 90 mg/day will cause chronic
toxicity
Susan Garlinghouse says 2mg/kg of diet which is 16 mg/day, almost twice Heidi's for my
horse. Susan says toxic is 3.3mg/kg of body weight which is over 1200mg/day
Duncan Fletcher quotes NRC which matches Susan's recommended amount.
Courtney Hart's new book says .11mg/100 lb of body weight or 1 mg/day recommended
Courtney states .22 can be low level toxic or 2mg/day can be cause chronic toxicity.
This value is 1/5 to 1/10 what Susan & Heidi recommend
Horse Owner's Vet Handbook (Giffin & Gore) pg373 states .1mg/kg of diet or .83mg/day
recommended for my horse. 5mg/kg is toxic or 41 mg/day is toxic
The UCD Book of Horses states .3ppm in the diet is recommended which calcs out to 2.5
mg/day for my horse. It says "relatively small excesses may be toxic"
Anyway you can see that what some people recommend is considered toxic by others. The
UCD book is new and I have heard the NRC values may be outdated? Any comments?
Jim Mitchell
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Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:28:48 -0600
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:28:48 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: cluttering the list (was "saddle types..more questions")
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980120202420.26349o-100000@consider.theneteffect.com>
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>>Please remember that the purpose of a list like this is to share
information.
<SNIP>
You seem excessively concerned about "cluttering the list."
In fact, all you are doing is restricting the flow of useful
information to yourself. <<
I have to second that motion! Feel free to disagree if you must, but I
think that private replies are appropriate only for things like "used
saddle for sale" etc., where the reply really is of no concern to others
on the list.
If it's info, I wanna read it! And I know others do too. I'm merely one
of the more vocal of the newbies on this list. <bg>
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
Message-ID: <543bb360.34c55dd1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:30:39 EST
To: BridgetC@pagemart.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: GU
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Great stuff especially for Ride & Tie. It is carried in the Sportack catalog
Debby Lyon
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:49:53 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Saddles I use
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Folks are interested in the saddles used in endurance that are
represented on the list... Here are mine.
I currently ride in an Orthoflex Express Lite - love the saddle for my
very large, level-backed Arab. I find it well made, secure, lots of
places to hang things. I could be MUCH happier if the biothane stirrup
leathers didn't dig into my leg so much. I'd like to have the girth set
further back - I guess next time or with a future refurbishment. It
isn't a saddle for every horse as some claim, but it does it's job well
for ours.
I also have a slightly narrower endurance saddle in a western style made
by Hooks of Kalispell, Montana using Hermann Oak leather & brass
fittings. I find it well made, secure, lots of places to hang things.
It has seen heavy use over >15 years and it is still going strong. (I
did replace the stirrup leathers & fenders twice.) VERY NICE adjustable
rigging based on the McClellan military saddles. It goes from full to
center-fir rigged, depending on need. As many places to hang things as
I could find things to hang :)
Speaking of McClellans, we have 6. Each was a handcarved tree, so there
is quite a bit of variation from one to another. 3 fit our TB/QH
depending on what weight he is carrying. I've yet to ever find one that
would fit any of my Arabs, though. (These saddles are narrow!) I find
them uncomfortable to ride in, but my husband likes them. The seat is
flat and balanced for best riding position. The peak in front <can> get
you in the chest in a steep lounge up a bank, etc.
I used a Courbette Husar jumping saddle on a mare that was built like a
narrow beam through her back. It fit her well, but I got sore knees and
lower back from the position that it forced you to assume. Not enough
places to hang things. I'd recommend taking an english saddle to a
repairman for additional d rings. Also, I'd look into the cantle packs
that are designed for these saddles - they attach to the girth billets
as there isn't anywhere else for them to go.
Another mare (in the early 80's) needed a Monte Foreman western saddle.
OK number of places to hang things, but way too heavy (~40 lbs). This
was a custom saddle with the stirrups back a bit. The horn hit me in
the chest on any steep sections - yuch!
Cheers,
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Clutter
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:53:27 -0600
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Ride on.!!!!
I 'm another one of those newbies out here and and I need all the
help I can get......Please share info with everyone so we don't have to ask
same questions.
Elaine and as always Fidgit....
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From: Debbyly <Debbyly@aol.com>
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Subject: Re: convention
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I'll be there.
Debby Lyon
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To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Cc: Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Message-ID: <19980121.095804.3830.2.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <34C3BCCB.4E83@ix.netcom.com>
<19980120.105824.4390.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:58:53 EST
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 10:59:26 PST Rides2far writes:
>
>On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:51:23 -0800 Kimberly Price
><PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>Does anyone ride in english saddles out there on endurance rides?
>>What
>>type if so and where do you put all your "stuff"?
>>
>>Are there any endurance type saddles one can "try" before they
>"buy"?
>>
>>Please email me privately so as not to clutter the list. I'm still
>>going
>>through archives, and I'm also on the digest.
>>
>>thanks!
>>Kimberly
>>
>Hi Kimberly,
>I started out on a jumping saddle. It made my horse's back sore. But
>besides that, I had major lower back pain. It's because the jumping
>seat involves you leaning forward (hence the name forward seat) This
>position puts a lot of strain on your lower back. If I were going to
>ride an English saddle, I would look at the dressage saddles. Nina
>Warren, who until recently was the winningest rider in history, rides
>an English saddle. So does Melissa Crain who has been in several
>international competitions.
>
>Angie McGhee
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:17:57 -0800
From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
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Subject: Selenium requirements
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I can't seem to find agreement on the amount of selenium a horse needs and what is
toxic. Below I have summarized information from posts to this group and some books.
I have calculated the required and toxic amounts below for a 900 lb horse eating 20
lb.s of food per day.
Heidi Smith DVM says 8 to 10 mg/day is correct and 60 to 90 mg/day will cause chronic
toxicity
Susan Garlinghouse says 2mg/kg of diet which is 16 mg/day, almost twice Heidi's for my
horse. Susan says toxic is 3.3mg/kg of body weight which is over 1200mg/day
Duncan Fletcher quotes NRC which matches Susan's recommended amount.
Courtney Hart's new book says .11mg/100 lb of body weight or 1 mg/day recommended
Courtney states .22 can be low level toxic or 2mg/day can be cause chronic toxicity.
This value is 1/5 to 1/10 what Susan & Heidi recommend
Horse Owner's Vet Handbook (Giffin & Gore) pg373 states .1mg/kg of diet or .83mg/day
recommended for my horse. 5mg/kg is toxic or 41 mg/day is toxic
The UCD Book of Horses states .3ppm in the diet is recommended which calcs out to 2.5
mg/day for my horse. It says "relatively small excesses may be toxic"
Anyway you can see that what some people recommend is considered toxic by others.
The UCD book is new and I have heard the NRC values may be outdated? Any comments?
Jim Mitchell
Sorry if this appears twice but it didn't seem to go through the first time. Jim
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 17:47:30 -0800
From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
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Subject: Selinium requirements
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I can't seem to find agreement on the amount of selinium a horse needs and what is
toxic. Below I have summarized information from posts to this group and some books.
I have calculated the required and toxic amounts below for a 900 lb horse eating 20
lb.s of food per day.
Heidi Smith DVM says 8 to 10 mg/day is correct and 60 to 90 mg/day will cause chronic
toxicity
Susan Garlinghouse says 2mg/kg of diet which is 16 mg/day, almost twice Heidi's for my
horse. Susan says toxic is 3.3mg/kg of body weight which is over 1200mg/day
Duncan Fletcher quotes NRC which matches Susan's recommended amount.
Courtney Hart's new book says .11mg/100 lb of body weight or 1 mg/day recommended
Courtney states .22 can be low level toxic or 2mg/day can be cause chronic toxicity.
This value is 1/5 to 1/10 what Susan & Heidi recommend
Horse Owner's Vet Handbook (Giffin & Gore) pg373 states .1mg/kg of diet or .83mg/day
recommended for my horse. 5mg/kg is toxic or 41 mg/day is toxic
The UCD Book of Horses states .3ppm in the diet is recommended which calcs out to 2.5
mg/day for my horse. It says "relatively small excesses may be toxic"
Anyway you can see that what some people recommend is considered toxic by others. The
UCD book is new and I have heard the NRC values may be outdated? Any comments?
Jim Mitchell
--------------2DEB702A5D52--
calculated the required and toxic amounts below for a 900 lb horse eating 20
lb.s of food per day.
Heidi Smith DVM says 8 to 10 mg/day is correct and 60 to 90 mg/day will cause chronic
toxicity
Susan Garlinghouse says 2mg/kg of diet which is 16 mg/day, almost twice Heidi's for my
horse. Susan says toxic is 3.3mg/kg of body weight which is over 1200mg/day
Duncan Fletcher quotes NRC which matches Susan's recommended amount.
Courtney Hart's new book says .11mg/100 lb of body wei6080 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003203 06461267747 0013120 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (mailsorter-105.iap.bryant.webtv.net [207.79.35.95]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA17592 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:47:46 -0800 (PST)
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From: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:46:07 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: EZ-Boots
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Hello,
I bought some EZ-Boots today and will try them out on my horses on
Saturday. Does anybody have any tips on breaking the boots, how to
ensure a good fit and how to get the horse to cooperate during my first
trial. (Where is Al Bundy when you need him - haha)
Thanks for any tips
Simone
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 22:08:59 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: national championship proposal
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Since I'm feeling rather opinionated lately <bg>, I think I'll throw my
$.02 in on this topic, too.
Even if this proposal were accepted, I don't know that the winning team of
this one ride would necessarily be the the horse-rider team I would name
to anyone asking who the current national endurance champions are --
especially if I'd never heard of them before, or didn't know much about
them. It seems to me that endurance is all about "enduring" -- not just a
few hours, but ride after ride, month after month, year after year. In my
estimation, it takes much more skill, effort and determination to finish
Top Ten in a dozen or more rides in one year, than it does to finish first
in one special race, no matter how tough it may be.
One of the many things about the AERC that appeals to me, along with the
motto, is the concept of National Mileage Champion and National BC
Champion -- to me, those are the TRUE champions.
(flame away if you like -- I promise to pay no attention whatsoever)
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Simone Jordon" <simimaus@webtv.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: EZ-Boots
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 20:24:14 -0800
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Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Simone Jordon <simimaus@webtv.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 7:54 PM
Subject: EZ-Boots
Hello,
I bought some EZ-Boots today and will try them out on my horses on
Saturday. Does anybody have any tips on breaking the boots, how to
ensure a good fit and how to get the horse to cooperate during my first
trial. (Where is Al Bundy when you need him - haha)
Thanks for any tips
Simone
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <968820a5.34c577e1@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:21:51 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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In my experience, the wide gait is desirable, enables the horse to trot with
more drive, significantly lowers the risk of both interference and forging, is
related to conformation that allows the horse to round the back, and DOES run
in family lines.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:51:42, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Wide Gait in Hind End
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For one, I think their trot is more powerful.
Also they don't overreach nor interfere this way!
Louise Burton
who's horse trot WIDE behind!
Firedance Farms Endurance Arabians
OK
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 21:58:55 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: Re: EZ-Boots
Cc: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon)
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At 09:46 PM 1/20/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Hello, I bought some EZ-Boots today and will try them out on my horses on
>Saturday. Does anybody have any tips on breaking the boots, how to ensure a
>good fit and how to get the horse to cooperate during my first trial.
>(Where is Al Bundy when you need him - haha) Thanks for any tips Simone
Hi Simone:
I'm working on an easy boot FAQ. For now, you should be able to find a lot
of information on the subject in the archives... http://www.endurance.net
If anybody else has any suggestions, questions or posts that they would
like to see included, please e-mail me.
Of course, this falls into the came category as housework, so it'll only
get done if the trails stay muddy ;=0.
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Weaver...who went for ONE ride without an easy boot and cut his heal open!!
& Rocky...totally coated in mud!
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From: Lynn Golemon <lynng@access.mountain.net>
To: "'Ride camp, AERC'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: FW: Convention...
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:23:27 -0500
Return-Receipt-To: <lynng@access.mountain.net>
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Yes, you certainly will be able to get tickets at the door of the AERC convention. Hope you can all make it.
Lynn
----------
From: Kachina
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 10:34 AM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Convention...
Big whoops on my part...
Does anyone know if you can get tickets at the door?
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:38:32 -0700 (MST)
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To: equine_athletes@hotmail.com
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Eliminate Sanctioning 2-Day 100's & 3-Day 150's
Cc: aerc@foothill.net, b-mbobrow@worldnet.att.net, MBowers472@aol.com,
darolyn@swbell.net, ddc@Rt66.com, renegade12@juno.com,
dfrazier@mail.llion.org, lynng@access.mountain.net,
jackson@inconnect.com, Navarrada@aol.com, mmsprice@postoffice.ptd.net,
ridecamp@endurance.net, LRiedel769@aol.com, step@bluefish.fsr.com,
cmiket@aol.com, WWArabsrun@aol.com
Greetings Linda!
Multi-Day (I am referring to those rides of two or more consecutive days,
not "Special event rides" - see Rule 11.2 - that are series of rides on
consecutive days totaling more than three days or 150 miles) Rides are
great! Riding 50 miles two days in a row (almost) always beats only riding
one, and riding three days in a row (almost) always beats only riding two,
etc., etc., BUT
Yes, it is time to for the AERC BOD to eliminate sanctioning 2-Day 100's &
3-Day 150's.
Why?
* There is no way that riding a 2-Day 100 is the same as riding a 1-Day
100 - never has been, never will! I can't think of anyone who has ridden a
continuous 150 miler (I'm sure someone has done it!), but I can't believe
that riding three 50's in three days is the same as doing 150 miles in 36
hours!!
* The Rider "Strategy" Myth: A rider will ride differently (in strategic,
pacing terms) if they are going to enter a 2-Day 100 than two consecutive
50's (50/50). BALONEY! Coming to the two day event, the rider will always
choose between one of three options:
1. Not riding (for various reasons), but drinking (also for various reasons);
2. Being "competitive" (Top 10, etc.) on Day One, and hopefully riding on
Day Two if he/she has enough horse left, plus drinking;
3. Going for the mileage, and riding at a pace that they know they can
finish both days, unless that evil stone finds a foot somewhere along the
trail, plus drinking;
So, which option will the rider choose if they want to enter both 50's? #3.
Which option will they choose if they want to enter the 2-Day 100? #3.
* There is no awards program for them.
* You get no extra point amount (like 1.5 for a one day 100) for them.
* The only reason they were instituted was for the ROC as qualifiying
critera. It is no secret that Susan does not actually require completion
of "sanctioned" multiple-day events - she will accept completing any two or
three days in a row.
* The "On-Going Myth Syndrome": Riders enter them because they believe
that they are necessary for qualifying for some rides and so Ride Managers
sanction them because they believe riders want them. Net result: The
first time a rider loses the 50 miles they completed the 1st day because
they didn't finish the second day is the last time they enter a 2-Day 100,
AND they cost the Ride Manager more money for sanctioning, ride fees
(although not much here, because not many enter them - check the EN ride
results!), and awards.
* Sanctioning as a 3-Day 150 isn't necessary for a ride to be a Pioneer
Event; it qualifies if it is three consecutive days of 50 miles or more
each day.
* Finally, the rules still would need a change if we continue to sanction
them. Rule 5.2 states that you have 12 hours to complete a 50, and 24
hours to complete a 100. If you have entered a 2-Day 100, you should have
24 hours of "total competition time"; if you complete Day 1 in 8 hours,
that should leave you with 16 for Day 2. However, the Rule is not clear on
this, and because you are only riding 50 miles each day, some, but
certainly not all, think you should have only 12 hours per day within which
you must complete.
The AERC Competitions Committee and Board of Directors has discussed
getting rid of this before - NOW IS THE TIME!
Therefore, I propose to both the AERC Competitions and Sanctioning
Commitees to eliminate sanctioning 2-Day 100's & 3-Day 150's.
Happitrails!
Brad.
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:49:57 -0700 (MST)
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To: equine_athletes@hotmail.com
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Give 1.25 points for 75 mile rides
Cc: aerc@foothill.net, b-mbobrow@worldnet.att.net, MBowers472@aol.com,
darolyn@swbell.net, ddc@Rt66.com, renegade12@juno.com,
dfrazier@mail.llion.org, lynng@access.mountain.net,
jackson@inconnect.com, bobmorris@rmci.net, Navarrada@aol.com,
mmsprice@postoffice.ptd.net, ridecamp@endurance.net,
LRiedel769@aol.com, step@bluefish.fsr.com, cmiket@aol.com,
WWArabsrun@aol.com
Greetings Linda!
75 mile rides need 1.25 points!
50 mile rides get 1 point per mile and 100 mile rides (one-day) get 1.5
points per mile.
We all (supposedly) want more 100 milers in our sport. We all know that
jumping from 50 to 100 miles is a big jump. More riders would eventually
do 100's if they had a bridge to get there. More ride managers would put
on 75's if riders would enter them. More riders would enter them if there
were more of an incentive than 25 extra miles. SO,
75 mile rides need 1.25 points!
This cannot be too difficult (and thus expensive) to program into the AERC
confuser - I mean computer.
Therefore, I propose that the AERC Competitions and Rules Committees award
1.25 points to 75 mile rides.
Thanks & Happitrails!
Brad.
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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From: "Wilcocks, Carol" <cwilcocks@aidpo.agric.wa.gov.au>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 15:19:00 PST
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Sorry to say this, but all those sweet Gu, Powergel etc. things sound truly
gross! I can't stand anything sugary on rides, as I find it gives me
headaches. Afterwards is a different matter, though, I like musk sticks, lots
of coffee and bacon and egg toasted sandwiches with lots of cooked onions!
During the ride I like diet carbonated drinks, water, coffee, leftover pasta
meals, instant noodles, packet chicken soup, apples or fruit of some sort,
BBQ chicken-mainly savoury things which have some staying power in the gut! I
can't stomach any Powerade type electrolyte drinks either, so I have to watch
dehydration. Breakfast is the difficult one, I think those breakfast bars are
way too sweet, and porridge would be good, but it takes too much preparation,
so I tend to go for toast or crumpets with honey or Vegemite. Sometimes i
think it would be easier to be a horse and just eat hay or grain!?
Carol and the gang.
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Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:57:54 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Jim Mitchell" <navion@lightspeed.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Selinium requirements
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 23:54:57 -0800
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Interesting.
For your 900lb (aprox 400kg) horse eating 20 lb (approx. 9kg). The numbers
as follows:
Recom Max Toxic LD50
Heide 8-10 n/a 60-90 n/a
Duncan na 18 n/a n/a
Susan na 18 * 1320*
NRC 0.9 18 na 1320
Hart 1 na 2 na
Giffen 0.9 na 80 n/a
UCD 0.3 na na n/a
na - no number given in post.
* Susan posted this (3.3 mg/kg body weight) as toxic in her post, but it is
the LD50 number from NRC.
The maximum tolerable level is not the same as toxic. There is some 'safety
factor' in that number. Good studies of actual amounts needed for toxicity
are difficult to perform without sacrificing a lot of horses. LD50 is a
number designating the dosage resulting in 50% fatality (probably over a
specified time period - I don't know the exact details of this common
measure of toxicity). However, that still leaves a huge discrepancy. I will
leave it to others with better access to more recent studies to give them if
the NRC recommendations are outdated.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
>I can't seem to find agreement on the amount of selinium a horse needs and
what is
>toxic. Below I have summarized information from posts to this group and
some books.
> I have calculated the required and toxic amounts below for a 900 lb
horse eating 20
>lb.s of food per day.
>
>Heidi Smith DVM says 8 to 10 mg/day is correct and 60 to 90 mg/day will
cause chronic
>toxicity
>
>Susan Garlinghouse says 2mg/kg of diet which is 16 mg/day, almost twice
Heidi's for my
>horse. Susan says toxic is 3.3mg/kg of body weight which is over
1200mg/day
>
>Duncan Fletcher quotes NRC which matches Susan's recommended amount.
>
>Courtney Hart's new book says .11mg/100 lb of body weight or 1 mg/day
recommended
> Courtney states .22 can be low level toxic or 2mg/day can be cause
chronic toxicity.
>This value is 1/5 to 1/10 what Susan & Heidi recommend
>
>Horse Owner's Vet Handbook (Giffin & Gore) pg373 states .1mg/kg of diet or
.83mg/day
>recommended for my horse. 5mg/kg is toxic or 41 mg/day is toxic
>
>The UCD Book of Horses states .3ppm in the diet is recommended which calcs
out to 2.5
>mg/day for my horse. It says "relatively small excesses may be toxic"
>
> Anyway you can see that what some people recommend is considered toxic
by others. The
>UCD book is new and I have heard the NRC values may be outdated? Any
comments?
>
>Jim Mitchell
>
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <160c96b6.34c5bded@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 04:20:43 EST
To: ChacoL@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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Yes, it is true that most horses tend to travel wider as they get fitter, and
yes, they tend to do it more when climbing. However, some simply do it more
naturally than others, tend to do it some from the start, do it more sooner,
and do it more consistently and efficiently. You can feel it from the
saddle--they kind of "drop" into high gear. In being a ride vet forever, I
have come to associate it more with strong, sound horses than with horses with
tendon problems.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Message-ID: <B1E505F17237D111A8DC0000F81ED95402EF1A@CS0007>
From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Cc: "'CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com'" <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Subject: RE: wide gait in hind end
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:28:18 -0500
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You wrote:
>>In my experience, the wide gait is desirable, enables the horse to
trot
>>with
>>more drive, significantly lowers the risk of both interference and
>>forging, is
>>related to conformation that allows the horse to round the back, and
>>DOES run
>>in family lines.
Questions:
In your opinion does this produce a smooth trot for the rider?
Do you think that horses with smoother trots to ride are more
conformationally sound for endurance?
Does high action which is predominant in the Arab park horse type equate
to a bouncy hard trott for the rider?
And lastly, what family lines do you feel produce this wide action
behind type of trott?
Thanks,
Suzanne
e-mail: ssolis@lg.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:01:35 -0600
From: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
Organization: Houston Chronicle
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: horses wide behind
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Regarding horses who travel wide behind -- you may feel it is good for
endurance, but if you want to use your horse for something else, it may
be considered a fault.
For instance, in dressage, traveling wide behind is undesirable. You
want the horse's shoulders and hind end to line up, and they can't if he
is really wide behind. In competition, a judge may often remark on it,
and it may cost you some points..in my personal experience with my
purebred gelding. As always, your mileage may vary...
cyndi
cyndi.craig@chron.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 06:56:38 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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I am taking off for the airport, so anyone who wants a ridecamp badge,
but did not get an opportunity to email their info can pick up a badge
at Steph's booth. (or at registration?)
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Complicated Mare Needs Home with Skilled Horseman
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:36:39 -0700
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My close friend, Gretchen will SACRIFICE her 5 year old sweeps nominated
distance-conditioned mare ("Raisin") to a good home. This is a "marriage"
that has been in "counseling" for 5 years and all of Gretchen's supportive
friends agree that it's time to file for a "no fault divorce." What has
Raisin got going for her? She's beautiful, correct, well-bred and
well-broke to ride, pack or harness. She's 14h3" and approximately 900
lbs, so would probably do best with a lightweight or less. So what's the
problem? A permanent case of PMS is probably the most succinct
explanation. At this point, Raisin's options are limited: she can become
ALPO (heaven forbid), she could become a broodmare (she has an awesome
pedigree), or she can find a home with a gifted horseperson who can either
ignore her shortcomings or discover some creative new technique of behavior
modification. Ay SERIOUS inquiry will receive full disclosure of Raisin's
medical, psychological and training history. This is NOT a case for a
novice who loves a challenge. Seasoned professionals have left her
scratching their heads. Gretchen is not internet equipped, so you can
contact me privately at mburgess@theglobal.net and I will answer questions,
provide photos and pedigrees to the best of my ability, or you can call
Gretchen at 406-587-1736 (we're in Montana). This will NOT be a quick fix,
so please, only serious inquiries, but this mare has championship
potential.
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:26:22 -0500
To: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dirty Gray Horse
In-Reply-To: <34C403CD.7622@n-jcenter.com>
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Karen,
Don't feel like you are the only one. You can see the look
in my gray geldings eyes. He waits till he knows I am watching
then picks the muddiest spot in the pasture and wallows in. I live
in N. Carolina, the land of red clay!! My beautiful gray horse
has a permanent dirty red mane and tail!!! and looks like a pig.
Guess he is happy through, he loves the mud.
Julie and (yuk) Festive
At 08:54 PM 1/19/98 -0500, mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com wrote:
>All this talk about clean houses (no, I don't have one although I
>sometimes wish for one..) got me thinking about my filthy horse. My
>mare poops and pees all over the place in her stall, walks around
>spreading it then lays down in it. I recently built a run off of her
>stall hoping she would take care of elimination in one place and sleep
>in the other. Wrong. She still poops, pees and sleeps in the stall.
>She's gray so her swine-like behavior really shows up. Ideas? I know
>SOME horses are actually neat in their stalls.
>
>Karen & Anna
>Ormond Beach, Fl (When will it dry up around here?)
>
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:39:02 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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To: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
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Subject: Re: horses wide behind
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Cyndi Craig wrote:
>
> Regarding horses who travel wide behind -- you may feel it is good for
> endurance, but if you want to use your horse for something else, it may
> be considered a fault.
>
> For instance, in dressage, traveling wide behind is undesirable. You
> want the horse's shoulders and hind end to line up, and they can't if he
> is really wide behind. In competition, a judge may often remark on it,
> and it may cost you some points..in my personal experience with my
> purebred gelding. As always, your mileage may vary...
>
> cyndi
> cyndi.craig@chron.com So much for modern dressage competition-as contrasted to dressage
training for practical application.Beauty is as beauty does.
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:16:07 -0600
From: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
Organization: Houston Chronicle
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: is this fair?
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OK, maybe it is time for a new 'controversial' topic, now that it seems
we are done with the great ride time debate ;-)
i've been doing 25s for about a year. i am happy doing 25s -- i don't
have time to train for longer distances - i have another horse i compete
with in dressage -- and i don't want to do 50s.
i have been getting the feeling that the LD riders are the
"stepchildren" of the aerc, although if you look at the dollars, the
25-milers usually generate the most income for rides, just because there
are more of them....
so here's a question for everyone.
i recently received a mailing for a ride where they were priced as
follows:
25 mile $55
50 mile $75
75 mile $100
i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked to
pay more than their fair share. if you calculate it on a per-mile basis,
the 25s are $2.20 a mile, whereas the 75s are only 1.30 a mile...almost
double for the 25s..
i especially feel this is unfair for other reasons:
1) 25 milers only have one vet check
2) most 25 milers do not spend an additional night at camp, where many
50s, and virtually all of the 75s do.
opinions?
cyndi
cyndi.craig@chron.com
donerail farm
alvin, tx
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From: "urracing" <urracing@elknet.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Is it fair
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:34:24 -0600
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Doesn't sound fair to me ! I'll be interested to hear what their reasons
are for it.
Shortstuff and Fidge
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:33:01 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
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Subject: Re: is this fair?
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Cyndi Craig wrote:
> i have been getting the feeling that the LD riders are the
> "stepchildren" of the aerc
> so here's a question for everyone.
> i recently received a mailing for a ride where they were priced as
> follows:
>
> 25 mile $55
> 50 mile $75
> 75 mile $100
>
> i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked to
> pay more than their fair share. if you calculate it on a per-mile basis,
> the 25s are $2.20 a mile, whereas the 75s are only 1.30 a mile...almost
> double for the 25s..
Sounds like you need to see what other 25 mile rides in your area cost
to attend to see if this is reasonable. Compare limited distance
endurance to a competitive trail ride of the same distance, too.
Perhaps you could volunteer to assist with a ride and get an up close &
personal view of the finances involved. You'll be surprised how close
many rides come to barely breaking even.
Many of the incurred costs are fixed costs, regardless of the mileage
you may ride. Do you eat 1/3 of what the 75 milers eat? Do you think
the vet charges for their time for that weekend based on how far you
rode? Compare the cost of endurance rides to the entry fees in any open
horse show & see how cheap endurance really is!
The 25 mile distance <isn't> endurance by the classical definition - it
was developed as a distance to help train horses who may move up in the
future. The rules & spirit of the limited distance program supports
this ideal of completion with a lot of horse left/no racing/no
placings. 25 milers aren't looked down upon by the organization - in
fact they even have a distance program aimed at ltd distance events!
(It would take a HECK of a long time to reach the endurance mileage
program's award levels at 25 miles per ride!)
Not everyone wants to or can do 50's or 100's. It is a personal
choice. I was at a ride a couple of years ago where the 50 milers were
told that they were "riding half a ride" - talk about insulting! We
shrugged it off, but it still brings back bad memories. We should be
conscious of what we say that may tread on another's toes, but at the
same time, we as individuals need to grow some thicker hides. We each
need to strive for our own goals and have the strength of belief in
ourself & our horse so that things like this don't get under our skin.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton MIlls, WV
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: "LazyJArabs" <LazyJArabs@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>,
"Chris Paus" <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:38:26 -0800
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And then there are the others of us...or maybe I'm in a category by myself
<g>
I don't eat hardly any fruit or vegetables--and not much meat, either!!
Good thing scurvy isn't still around!!!
dorothy & elly
taylorsville
----------
> From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
> To: LazyJArabs <LazyJArabs@aol.com>; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: ride food
> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 4:15 PM
>
> Just a request to everyone who contributes to the pre-ride potluck
dinners.
> Remember SOME of us are vegetarians. I always try to bring a big salad or
> main dish that veggies and carnivores both would like, but sometimes it
is
> slim pickins' there for us. (although I'm in no danger of wasting away.)
>
> chris paus & star
>
> At 02:06 PM 1/20/98 EST, LazyJArabs wrote:
> >For in-the-pocket-energy, I love Clif bars. Most outdoors stores carry
them
> >and sometimes Costco, and some grocery stores. Shop around for the best
> price.
> >In my area, they are $.89/ea at Trader Joe's, but over $1.00 at REI.
Various
> >flavors, but my favorites are Peanut Butter and Chocolate Chip Peanut.
They
> >have other "fruity" types and even an espresso one if you need the
caffeine
> >boost. These are more like granola bars and no nasty after taste/burps
like
> >Power Bars.
> >
> >Power Bars are NASTY! As is Gu (Goo) and Power Gel, etc.
> >
> >Pre-ride:
> >Not much of anything. Stomach was too upset. <grin>
> >Clif Bar about an hour or so later did the trick.
> >
> >Beverage wise:
> >Gatorade (original flavor) (on trail in my water bottle)
> >Carbonated beverages (Coke, Pepsi, Mountain Dew, 7-Up, etc)
> >
> >Lunchtime:
> >Cheese
> >Melba toast
> >Pepperoni
> >Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup (would be awesome I bet, but haven't
tried it
> >yet)
> >Fritos, Cheetos, Potato Chips
> >Raisins
> >Cookies
> >
> >Post ride:
> >Beer (REALLY GOOD beer, like Red Hook, Pyramid, Spanish Peaks, Widmer.
No
> Bud,
> >Bud Light, cheap beer, etc.) (this is assuming I am not the one driving
home
> >right after we're done, of course)
> >Pasta
> >Hot dogs
> >
> >Elizabeth Johanson & CA Royalty (Ariel)
> ><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/eajohanson/ArabianWebs/">Arabian Web
> Sites</A>
> ><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/lazyjarabs/">Lazy J Arabians</A>
> ><A HREF="http://members.aol.com/wildhrsemm/">Wild Horse Multimedia</A>
> >Maple Valley/Hobart, Washington, USA
> >
> >
> >
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From: llayman@neorx.com
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Subject: dogs at ride
SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com> wrote >>>p.s. more rides are not allowing
dogs to attend. We like this.
That's not fair. What about those of us with well trained dogs who are
not a nuisance. My dog is crate-trained, so he either sleeps in his
crate during the ride, or in the back of my truck. He does not bark,
and when I take him out for walks, I take him away from the camp and
make a point to avoid horse contact. He is always on a leash and I
clean up after him. The problem I run into is those people who have
their dogs running around loose. I don't want to be penalised for the
negligence of other dog owners. I can't afford to pay for a kennel for
four days. I have a horse.
Linda-Cathrine
LLayman@NeoRx.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:08:20 -0500 (EST)
From: David Sonnenberg <furface@liii.com>
To: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
cc: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: bit to hackamore
In-Reply-To: <199801131708.JAA27738@fsr.com>
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I have found that if the horse goes in a mild bit with slack reins, there
should not be a change over problem. If the horse is well broke a rope
hack, with no leverage, should work well. The only problem found, is that
after a while the horses using the hack move with their nose out.
So I use a bit, once a year to tune up their headset.
furface
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1ea5dd3a.34c62b66@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:07:48 EST
To: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dirty Gray Horse
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We try to train our horses to go in one place.
They all have run ins, one horse to an area.
We put urine hay in one place outside and always
leave a small pile of poop in another. If there own
poop doesn't work, we use some from another
horse.it does not always work,you have that one
that will go everywhere.Out of eight horses only one
still makes a mess, but doesn't sleep in it.
Marcy
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Marcy,
Thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.
Karen & Anna (the gray horse with the big brown poop spots)
Ormond Beach, Fl
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <770c163e.34c62faa@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:26:00 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Tony Cooper!
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Can anyone out there help me? I lost Tony Coopers
phone number. He is a saddle maker from Sudbury
Mass.i need work done on two saddles before it is
time to start conditioning.I know he travels all over
New England fitting saddles to horses, so please if
anyone has his number i will THANK YOU NOW.
Marcy at RICMARC@AOL.COM
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From: mkgehrin@n-jcenter.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:32:50 -0500
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To: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dirty Gray Horse
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Julie,
Always nice to know you're not the only one. I've had several private
replies that indicate grays have a particular desire to be dirty. A
little passive-aggressive perhaps ;-)
Karen & Anna (I think the poop stains add a nice contrast)
Ormond Beach
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... while talking to unet.net.com.:
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:49:11 -0500
Subject: Saddles and Stick Shifts is automatic
Message-ID: <19980121.024224.3142.2.ValSharpe@juno.com>
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From: valsharpe@juno.com (Valerie K Sharpe)
I'm fairly new and I have missed bits and pieces to many of your letters;
however, I would like to comment on two things and then also ask a
question of my own.
With regards to "Stick Shifts vs automatic" (again I may have missed a
little here) Usually your Automatics will pull loads better than a stick
but that doesn't matter as much as the "torque". I had a 1995 Ford F350
Diesel Power Stroke dually. It was a 5-speed stick. I traded it in this
past July on a 97 Ford F250 Diesel Power Stroke 4x4. It pulls with just
as much power as my older F350. The reason...the F350 loses some torque
in the standard 5-speed and it ends up having the same torque as the F250
automatic. Also another tip... An auto macanic told me that if you are
not pulling a load and you step on the gas it's the horsepower that
responds and make you go faster but if you are pulling a heavy load and
you step on the gas it is the torque that takes over to pull your load up
to speed.
In response to someones inquiry about what types of saddles everyone is
riding in. I use an Australian Stock Saddle - Champion VS. I love it
and I have owed it for almost 3 years. I bought it new from the
Australian Stock Saddle Company in Malibu, CA. I went there and was
fitted but you can order over the phone or out of their catalog. They
also run a small Ad in the back of some of the horse related magazines.
Not only is this saddle the most comfortable saddle I have ever ridden in
but it is a saddle that I completely trust out in the Arizona Desert
where I train. I feel almost locked into it in a sticky situation.
QUESTION: Has anyone had any problems with the orthoflex saddles? I
bought a used one that is an original model #1 version. It has sored up
every one of my horses, all of which are Arabs. When my husband rode
behind me once on a trail ride he said that he can see the back of the
saddle moving around in a circular motion and it leaves a saddle sore in
the same spot every time on every horse. I called the orthoflex company
and they said the #2 version is improved and will not sore the horse but
when I asked if they would stand behind their product and give a full
refund if I have problems with the saddle soring the horses they said no
that I have to deal with the retailer. The two main retailers of the
saddle told me no they will not take the saddle back if it's been used.
The reason I ask is because I saw a beautiful new orthoflex elite but do
not want to put out the expense only to have it sore my horses back. Any
input would be greatly appreciated. Please send comments to:
ApacheMoon@juno.com and please cc: to ridecamp to benefit everyone.
Thanks.
Valerie
Phoenix, Arizona
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:37:07 -0700
To: Ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jacqueline Mansfield <jaxson@leopard.com>
Subject: Dirty Gray Horses (Brown Horse envy?)
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I have always joked that Winza (almost snowy white - when clean anyway)
rolls in the mud so that he can look like the other (more common) brown
horses at the stable. ; ) Maybe I should get a dozen bottles of "Loreal -
Autumn Brown" and help him out!!! Teehee!
Jacqueline Mansfield and Winza, who might just want to fit in with the
"cool brown horse crowd"
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RUN4BEAR
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:40:38 -0500
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I must say, Teddy, I like your sense of humor. Thanks for the levity.
Lori Sumrall
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:48:39 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: HELFTER 77 <HELFTER77@aol.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods (Grains)
In-Reply-To: <473323ca.34c4b3ad@aol.com>
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On Tue, 20 Jan 1998, HELFTER 77 wrote:
> Sources of Foods
...
> Sugar is as bad for horses as it is for any other species, and horses may
> exhibit mood swings similarly seen in humans. Time and time again horses calm
I must take exception to this blanket statement. Sugar is not "bad" for
horses any more than it is for any other species. Considering that the
body must convert all food to sugar (glucose) if it is to be used for fuel
(not the same as body building blocks like proteins, vitamins, and
minerals). Fats are converted to sugar, carbohydrates are converted to
sugar, and complex sugars are converted to simple sugar.
So, generally speaking, all that hay and grain (other than the protiens,
vitamins, and minerals it contains) is either converted to sugar or
expelled as waste.
We just had an assortment of posts about "ride food" (for humans that is)
which contained a bunch of recommendations, mostly, about how to get sugar
into the body during competition (other than the person who mentioned that
she wanted bacon, eggs, and BBQ chicken, YUCK, _I_ can't think of anything
that would go down worse...except maybe a Power Bar :)) because the body
needs sugar for fuel.
People have been bombarded by the health food industry about how "bad for
you" sugar is. Mostly, I contend, they are speaking of processed sugars,
which can, indeed be difficult for the body to break down into simple
sugars without causing difficulties with insulin levels (as human beings
are MUCH more prone to diabetes) and variations in the amount of sugar
intake (large meals of high sugar substances followed by fasting).
However, molassas is what is left over from sugar cane AFTER it has been
processed and all the sugar (that white stuff you buy in the store) has
been taken out. The sugar content of molassas is pretty low (and one need
only taste the stuff to realize this :), it is, in actuality, quite
bitter).
Whether that makes it a good horse food or not, I am unwilling to enter
the fray here; nor am I willing to say one way or the other whether the
additives that may be added to molassas to make it packageable are good or
bad for horses (it is not a given that all additive are necessarily bad).
It wat the statement "sugar is bad for horses as it is for any species"
that I take exception to.
Sugar...is the staff of life. Ultimately, it is the only thing that the
body uses for energy. It is, in essence, what keeps us all (horses and
humans alike) going.
Since the body is very good at converting all carbon based food sources
into sugar, it is not a given that the best way to provide a body with
sugar is by eating it; however, nor is it a given that eating it is a bad
way to provide our bodies with what they need to stay alive.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:57:50 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
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Subject: STRONGID WORMER
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: J. Oliver
Email: Jen-Oliver@webtv.net
Looking for info on negative effects of this product I remember reading several articles. Friend is interested, she is trying to make the decision wether to use this product or not, her email address jgoetz@webtv.net or you can email me and I will forward info
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on Wednesday, 21 January 1998, 13:57:11 EST
From: "Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
Organization: McGill Faculty of Law
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:55:55 EST
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Subject: Re: saddles
Priority: normal
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Well, I presently have a Western saddle (roping design) which fits
my horse well and which is very comfortable for me on trail rides.
But I am only beginning in CTR as a novice and I imagine the pace is
considerably slower than in endurance, so the weight of the saddle is
not quite as crucial. I would most likely consider a change
for endurance. Despite the fact that it fits well, is useful to carry
stuff and is comfortable for both horse and myself, I do realize
(every time I lift it up onto my close to 16 hands horse's back!) that
it is heavy. It
sure builds bicep/tricep muscles, but would probably be a
disadvantage against horses carrying much lighter saddles, at a fast
pace. And there is the horn in the stomach problem on steep hills,
luckily for me (or my stomach) there are not too many steep hills
around here to create that problem too often!
Just my humble commentary,
Lysane and Buck
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:05:08 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT) wrote:
>
> You wrote:
> In your opinion does this produce a smooth trot for the rider?
For the horse, yes! More time in suspension and fewer concussive
impacts of the foot with the ground. For the rider, no. The
expansiveness of the trot tends to throw the rider up more inmty
experience. One gelding of ours preferred that you sit to the rear of
the saddle as he trotted like this. It was an interesting (but not
comfortable) ride. It WAS always fun to tell somebody galloping along
side you "I need to make up some time" I'd let the horse drop and spread
& shift into high gear trot. The look on their face as I pulled away
from their gallop at our trot was great.
> Do you think that horses with smoother trots to ride are more
> conformationally sound for endurance?
Hard to make a case for this - too many environmental factors.
> Does high action which is predominant in the Arab park horse type equate
> to a bouncy hard trott for the rider?
Some of the best Park Arabs & 3 gaited Saddlebreds I ever rode were as
smooth as silk. On the other hand, these horses are wasting a lot of
energy going nowhere for endurance. Not my first choice for an
endurance mount.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Message-ID: <34C63F5F.60F4@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:33:39 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
Reply-To: carlmey@citrus.infi.net
Organization: InfiNet
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To: Rae <bolton@pbhs.brevard.k12.fl.us>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: SS loin rubs---I know not again!!
References: <v01510109b0ea479e306e@[204.128.87.151]>
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Hi Rae..
Regarding the loin rubs : in talking to another competitor last fall,
she was noticing loin hair rubs as her horse grew longer hair..they
did not show up when he was slick and smooth...I can't remember if it
was a Sport Saddle or not....had you considered this factor? Is he at
all tender or ouchy in ANY way? Getting on, getting off; is he travel-
ing true, etc. If nothing has changed except the loin rubs, and you've
been happy with the saddle before, you might just keep an eye of "watch-
ful neglect" on things and be ever aware of ANY other unusual sign of
possible discomfort..(.I ignored these signs with my gelding using a
S.S. and really created discomfort for him and wasted a 100 mi. ride
effort when we were forced to pull at 91 miles as his back was so sore.
He never ran worse than 5th place (in very good company) all day and
into the night, but didn't go anywhere..he stayed in the same place
throughout; WHAT HEART!..I felt like such a dummy when I finally diag-
nosed the problem..I've apologized to him many times). Since taking that
particular saddle off of him, and going back to the WONDERFUL Stonewall,
using the padding appropriate for his particular conformation (hi/low
shoulder) and for the saddle, we've been in heaven! This is not to put
down the S.Saddle...but over the long distances, in the heat, and with
my horse, it didn't work....I have it for sale, by the way, along with
2 1" Equilizer pads, all in good condition...14 1/2" seat, stirrups set
back, 3" cantle, raised pommel, black ; $695 plus shipping...I now have
2 Stonewalls: a 301 model (discontinued - it's an english style cutback)
and a 400 model (401 I think..can't locate brochure at this moment,but
it rides and fits the same, but has a highish pommel..we had our custom-
ized by having it made with 1" off the pommel)..this saddle will "hang"
you in the perfect balanced position..'tis wonderful...and I love the
fenders too..didn't have them on the other model; used neopreme wraps
which, by the way, came on my Sport Saddle..I secure them with black
electrical tape; works great...other wise, to stop the rubbing from the
stirrup "leathers", one has to cover them in a fleece tubing (which will
wear out rapidly I find, and/or go to $99 a pair Ariat half-chaps...THEY
are great; and take a beating...just had my first pair patched for $22
at Tack Shack in Ocala..)...back to the fenders: I can actually ride
and gallop my gelding, American Express, (not always an easy ride) with-
out wearing my half-chaps and without rubbing....cool!
Information is always to be digested and applied to one's own circum-
stances...hope this helps Rae....also, you mentioned that your horse's
back has changed...sounds like you could be getting a bit of a bridge
from this...try lifting the horses back each time you're near him! It
will help his top line..and he may be holding some discomfort in his
back and loin area....you do this by positioning your fingers..nail side
next to his skin (short nails) and gently but firmly going in with your
fingertips/nail tips UNDER HIS BELLY...you will see the back come up!
Do this a couple of times EVERY TIME YOU'RE NEAR THE HORSE, talking to
him and stroking him..then you can measure the amount of lift you get
as to the progress you're making in other depts....hope I explained this
o.k....this I learned from Linda Tellington-Jones work...I am a TTEAM
Practitioner...this stuff works ! The mailing address and ph/# for
STONEWALL SADDLES, should anyone be interested, is:
27180 Citrus Ave. Perris, Ca. 92571 ---- Ph. (909)928-3244
Jerry Stoner, saddlemaker
Nancey , his assistant
See you at the FLORIDA CLASSIC !
Deena, Ride Mgr.
FL. ENDURANCE CLASSIC 7 March '98
carlmey@citrus.infi.net
10155 S. Forestline Ave.
Inverness,Fl. 34452
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:12:53 -0700 (MST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Dublin Hart-send email address!
Greetings Dublin!
I received your message - please email me your email address!
Thanks & Happitrails!
Brad.
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Picklet Line Ropes
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:29:14 -0500
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Idea for nonstretching rope for a picket line: Try REI (Recreational
Equipment, Inc.). They carry quite a selection of mountain climbing ropes.
You know they are built not to stretch -- we hope! I guess any "outdoor"
type store should carry them. Also, whitewater kayakers use what they call
a "throw bag" which contains a fabulous, high quality rope. This rope is
used to haul swimmers out of a river. Sorry I can't estimate prices for
you. Surely REI has a 1-800 number that you could find in 1-800-555-1212
and they also have a catalog which contains both these items (and fabulous
riding pants in addition made by Patagonia -- expensive but of extremely
high quality.)
Mountain climber's carabiners are also a good idea for attaching the lead
rope to the picket.
Good Luck
Lori Sumrall
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: abetta saddle
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty Lambert)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:41:34 EST
I'm posting this for a friend who wants to know if anyone could give her
some info on experience with abetta endurance cordura softee saddle. I
think I recall seeing posts about this saddle but can't remember when.
Please e-mail Rita directly: ritags@tcjc.cc.tx.us
Thanks
Patty
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To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Re: Sanct of 100 and 150's
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Greetings Jerry!
My writing is too late at night, not as of too much drinking!!! However, I
too love multi-day rides - I put on one 2-dayer, and this year another
2-dayer will become a three-day, and one 5-day - I know how much fun people
of all ages have at multi-day rides. Many people say, obviously without
much thought, that a 2-day 100 = a 1-day 100. But SANCTIONING them as a
2-Day 100, etc., I believe, is "dead wrong"! For all the ones that you
attend, do you enter them as seperate 50's or 2-Day 100's, etc.? As I
wrote, not many do. They need to go.
Happitrails!
Brad.
>Brad, You're dead wrong on this one. No one ever said that a two day 100
>is the same as a one day 100. When you get a little more age on yourself
>you will come to realize how much fun us older folks have on the multi-day
>rides. Since I quit drinking about 8 years ago, that no longer is a factor
>on how I pick rides. I strongly believe that the two day 100,s or the
>multiday rides are jsut what the doctor ordered, not only for us old
>geezers but for the growth of AERC. Please rethink your
>position....Best.Jerry Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Message-ID: <34C65120.37E8819D@lansford.ndak.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:48:55 -0600
From: Lynette Helgeson <helgeson@lansford.ndak.net>
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To: KIMBERLY PRICE <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Training, spooky horses, NH (long)
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KIMBERLY PRICE wrote:
> ### Hey Lynette, I did not write the above. You cut it off someone
> else's message, probably the same guy I (Kimberly) replied to.
Sorry
> ### But while you are on it, the trailer loading method of tapping
> the horse's rear is completely seperate than the spook training by John
> Lyons. John Lyon's flavor of NH and Pat Paretti's flavor of NH are
> entirely different and should not be generalized as being the same.
> I've used the John Lyon's methods on my morab and arabians, and the
> horses not only catch the message very quickly, but because they are
> just highly sensitive beings, respond to the fair treatment of the
> immediate release of stress as a reward.
I agree that they are different, I do not like Pat Parretti's methods for
all. They might work with stock horses but from what I have
seen of Parretti's method of loading a horse into a trailer, he would
have his hands full if he tried that on an sensitive Arab. But I too have
used John Lyons methods, (I get
his magazine, "The Perfect Horse"); Mary Twelveponies, (I have all
of her books); James Fillis who wrote, "Breaking and Riding"; I have
gained understanding of horses from authors such as Monty Roberts
and Walt Atchison who wrote, "Let there be Horses in Heaven" Walt
spent years of his life watching wild horses and recording their behaviors.
And other authors too numerous to mention. The problem with
following just one trainers methods of training is - "not ever method
is going to work for every horse". So the more that you learn from
every source, the better horse person that you will be. Just try the
methods that make sense to you. Don't do something that does not
feel right to you, no matter how great that method is.
> >I have trained many different breeds of horses and it took me awhile
> >to realize that when you train an Arabian you are working with a
> >totally different animal. And this is a prime example of that. The
> >very best way to train an Arabian to not be spooky is for you to
> >gain his trust. If he trusts that you will not let any horse eating
> >monsters get him and he will go anywhere for you.
Let me elaborate on this. I am a pet groomer and I got into discussion one
time with a fellow colleague on, who is smarter, the
dog or the horse. She raises QH and I raise Arabian. She sees the
dog as being smarter and I see the horse as being just as smart and
loyal as the dog. Then it dawned on me. The dog is smarter in the
ways of a human because they live with them. The bond that the
dog has with man is because of the fact that the dog has gotten to
know humans so well because of being able to watch them and live
with them. The dog's loyalty stems from that also. O.K., so which
breed of horse has been in the same position as the dog? You guessed
it, the Arabian. Don't you think that that is why those of us who have
experienced the Arabian find them different then any other breed
of horse? They seem to understand humans better and seem to
enjoy finding ways to out think the human race. All horses will do
that, but an Arabian will go beyond just trying, they will make a
career out of it. And they love it. But if you treat the Arabian like
the fine, proud, intelligent, fun loving animal that they are and
you keep on top of all of their tricks but out thinking them, they
will be the most loyal and delightful animal that exists.
> ###This is entirely true and NH is just one way of showing a horse
> he can trust you but on the ground first and with minimum interferance
> from dangerous stimuli. The goal is no one gets hurt and the horse is
> calmer when he leaves than when he started. I highly suggest you see
> some tapes or attend a seminar, or observe a JL trainer in full before
> condemning this flavor of Natural Horsemanship.
I have seen tapes, read books, got magazine, downloaded articles from the
internet, been on the e-mail list for Natural Horsemanship.
I am always looking for ways to learn, but then I get on my
Arabians, and they teach me more then any book, etc. And I
agree that the best way for any situation to be handled is for
you to stay calm and teach the horse trust. How do you teach a
horse trust? Simple, put yourself in your horses place and look
at what you are doing to your horse, do you feel comfortable with
what the rider is doing? Is the rider making you feel comfortable?
Are you gaining trust in the rider? Or is what the rider doing confusing
you, making you uncomfortable, not sure you can trust the rider. Is
the rider getting tense, yelling, angry? Any time that I am working
with an horse and I feel myself getting tense, angry, frustrated, I will
stop what I am doing, give my horse and myself some time to settle
down and I will give both myself and my horse time to think about
what we are doing to each other and what I am trying to get across
to the horse, how I am doing it and how I could be doing it better.
Don't keep using a method because it is John Lyon's or so and so's
method, if it does not work, it does not work! Find something else,
and keep calmly trying different methods (maybe even your own)
till you find what works. Some times this has gotten us
lost on the trail, and far behind the group, but my horse is always
a better horse for it.
> >For example, your Arabian is coming up to something that scares
> >him, his instinct tells him to run. You hold him to face it and start
> >tapping him, he is trained to move away from pressure so he moves
> >forward, still scared but feeling trapped, like he has no choice. He
> is>not learning to trust you, you are forcing him towards it, so he is
> >mistrusting you. You are forcing him into a situation that he does
> >not like. So next time instead of giving you a chance to tap him
> >towards something that scares him he is just going to wheel and run.
>
> ### You are right and this method should not be done as the sole
> training or stimuli to move pass a scarey object. I have used it when
> Mystery was being just plain stubborn but that is different than being
> scared. That is why I say once again trailer loading method, which
> uses this tapping as an encouragement, is entirely different than the
> "learn to spook in place, face the object, and trust my cues" lessons
> taught first in the roundpen and practiced on the trails.... Please do
> not confuse or misinterpret these two very different yet connected
> lessons....
Yes, Yes, Yes, I agree with you, but I do not think that I was the one that
was confusing them. What I use
for training a horse that is scared of a object, and I mean
really scared, is I will let the horse back off from the object
to where he is comfortable, I guess some call it the comfort
zone. Then I do what ever if takes to get that horse to be
not afraid. I will ask, not force, the horse to take one step forward
if he does, I praise him. The whole time I am relaxed and let
him know that this is no big deal. If he chooses to back off and
go back to his comfort zone, I let him, then we start all over, but
I do not give up until he has made it to the object and is relaxed
about it. That is the mistake some make, they get the horse
up to the object and then they let the horse turn and hurry away.
They think the idea is to just get the horse to go up to the object and
then they can both leave, but if the horse is still leary of the object
he has not learned any thing.
Don't leave the object until the horse is relaxed about it. Then
he believes you when you say, "it is not going to hurt you." But
if you let him leave before HE is relaxed then you have not installed
that idea in him mind and he still has doubts about the object.
If the horse plants all four feet and refuses to move, then I get
off of the horse and led him to it. I have gotten my custom made
boots wet many times from showing horses that, the water hole did
not swallow me up and it will not swallow you. But never, never do
I use any kind of pain or discomfort to get a horse closer to an
object that they are scared of. But you have to be sure that the horse
is scared first. If the horse is just playing games and is using spooking
to liven up a boring ride, then I will use cues to get the horse to
ride past the scary object, but I never hit a horse or use pain even
if they are just playing games. Everything is handled in a matter of
fact way. "There is nothing scary here, and there will be no games today.
If you are bored lets do some work then." But you need to know
and understand your horse.
The most scariest thing in our yard is our burn barrels. THis
is where we burn our garbage. And they are also proof that
desensitizing does not work. I can do the above methods 30 days
in a row and still have a horse spooking at these barrels. Because
they always look and smell different each day. So they have to learn
to trust me.
> Many times they teach me before I can teach
> them...
That is so true, my best teachers have always been my horses. Any one who
is going to ride should always
spend some time sitting in the pasture watching their
horses related to each other. Esp. the one they are
going to ride. How he relates to others has a lot to do
with how he will relate to you.
> If something is not working, don't keep>doing it because it worked for
> someone else. Put yourself in your>horse's place and see it through his
> eyes.
>
> ###Both sentences are true and one of the things I like about NH is
> they try and teach you to understand the perceptions you are
> erroneously giving the animals. You "think" the animal is on the same
> wavelength as you, but if you put yourself in his mind looking at what
> you are doing toward it, you can see you are often way off track. Make
> sense? It trains the trainer, along with the horse.
YES, it makes sense. The mistake that some riders make is thinking that
horse think and relate the same as we do.
How many times do you see someone hitting their horse
and saying, "you KNOW better then to do that!" If the
horse knew better then he probably would not have done it.
No horse or dog for that matter, wants to be hit.
> ### I for one am always interested in training beliefs and methods.
> The more I learn the more I realize I don't know. But please, before
> you condemn someone else's beliefs, know for certain what you are
> condemning. There are many NH trainers I don't believe in, but also
> many more I wouldn't think of judging unless I knew their lessons and
> philosophy in whole.
Yes, I am always learning too. That is why I love this list, I learn a lot
from everyone on here. I am always reading but I do not post
much. Probably because I always get too long. And I am not condemning
any one belief's, I have learned a lot from many trainers and just
plain horse people. I am just saying that you have to do what is
right for you and your horse and not necessarily what some one
else tell you. Learn from others but do what feels right to you, do
what makes sense to you.
> ### You are completely right that anyway you can earn the trust of a
> good horse will work to help calm that flight instinct, and I think
> that is what all of us strive to do.
Yes, I think that we are on the same wavelength.
Lynette
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title: Home of Dakota Ponies
note: Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps not record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
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this is a prime example of that. The
> >very best way to train an Arabian to not be spooky is for you to
> >gain his trust. If he trusts that you will not let any horse eating
> >monsters get him and he will go anywh6121 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002430 06461451261 0013077 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from x3.boston.juno.com (x3.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.22]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07409 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:55:23 -0800 (PST)
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To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
Cc: paus@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Good riding excuse
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:53:16 EST
On Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:16:02 -0600 (CST) "Jerry Fruth"
<hikryrdg@evansville.net> writes:
>Hi Everyone,
>I love the responses about housework!!! Last summer I was
My husband likes my response to immaculate houses. Any time we walk into
a friend's beautifully decorated and immaculate house, I lean over and
whisper in his ear "I bet her horse's recoveries stink!"
Angie and Kaboot (whose recoveries are excellent)
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To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
Cc: ChacoL@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
Message-ID: <19980122.025143.4318.2.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:53:16 EST
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 04:20:43 EST CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com> writes:
>Yes, it is true that most horses tend to travel wider as they get
>fitter, and
>yes, they tend to do it more when climbing. However, some simply do
>it more
>naturally than others, tend to do it some from the start, do it more
>sooner,
>and do it more consistently and efficiently. You can feel it from the
>saddle--they kind of "drop" into high gear. In being a ride vet
>forever, I
>have come to associate it more with strong, sound horses than with
>horses with
>tendon problems.
>
>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
You're making me feel better all the time. By the way, I noticed my
farrier maticulously turning the extra heel of Kaboot's front shoe, and
rasping at the edges, trying to give him that little bit of extra length,
without making it a target for the rear hoof to grab. I said, "Bruce,
have you ever seen him really trot?" He said , "I don't remember". So I
proceeded to trot him out, and after commenting that he left tracks like
a rabbit, he didn't worry so much about his rear grabbing a shoe.
Angie
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From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:17:14 -0800 (PST)
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Carl Meyer wrote:
> ...try lifting the horses back each time you're near him! It
> will help his top line..and he may be holding some discomfort in his
> back and loin area....you do this by positioning your fingers..nail side
> next to his skin (short nails) and gently but firmly going in with your
> fingertips/nail tips UNDER HIS BELLY...you will see the back come up!
> Do this a couple of times EVERY TIME YOU'RE NEAR THE HORSE, talking to
> him and stroking him..then you can measure the amount of lift you get
> as to the progress you're making in other depts....
When I was at Karen Chaton's house a month or so ago, she showed
me this lift (along with the "getting the horse to bend around
and take the treat from his hip" stretch). When I got home, I
dutifully tried it on Mouse, and she totally ignored me.
I decided two things - either I was doing it wrong (how
*much* do you "go in" with your fingers?); or Mouse just
wasn't ticklish enough (she's very bored by being touched
all over and doesn't get wriggley about anywhere).
Thoughts?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:41:41 -0600
To: simimaus@webtv.net (Simone Jordon), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: EZ-Boots
In-Reply-To: <199801210346.TAA29464@mailtod-122.bryant.webtv.net>
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After a wild wreck with a loose easy boot, I would recommend you put them
on the horse and then turn him out to get used to them without a rider.
chris paus &star
At 09:46 PM 1/20/98 -0600, Simone Jordon wrote:
>>>>
<excerpt>Hello,
I bought some EZ-Boots today and will try them out on my horses on
Saturday. Does anybody have any tips on breaking the boots, how to
ensure a good fit and how to get the horse to cooperate during my first
trial. (Where is Al Bundy when you need him - haha)
Thanks for any tips
Simone
</excerpt><<<<<<<<
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Message-ID: <34C65F69.60F3@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:49:45 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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Many people are asking me to send them the results of my saddle
questions. Well, there are at least 50 responses and 45 different
saddles, so I don't know how useful they would be. I am tallying them
by Saddle/ Writer / Experience of rider if known / Comments onto a
spreadsheet. I wouldn't know how to transfer this on the web.
SO, I'm gonna cut-off at the end of next week and do a final tally (for
my own sanity!) and anyone who is interested, please email me their fax
number or mailing address.
I'm learning I need to READ about these different types of saddles and
then put out specific questions. One person loves this saddle, another
found it gouged their horse's back, so I have to find out what fits him
first and foremost and I'll probably be "stuck" for determining the
comfort level myself on distance.
Thanks to ALL your replies!
Kimberly
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:55:22 -0600
To: <URRacing@elknet.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Is it fair
In-Reply-To: <B0000436824@mail.elknet.net>
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I am managing a CTR this summer and the only reason we can't allow dogs is
because the state park we are using has asked us not to.
chris paus & star
At 10:34 AM 1/21/98 -0600, urracing wrote:
>Doesn't sound fair to me ! I'll be interested to hear what their reasons
>are for it.
>
> Shortstuff and Fidge
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:56:09 -0600
To: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
In-Reply-To: <34C61F47.237C228A@chron.com>
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I like your thinking!
At 10:16 AM 1/21/98 -0600, Cyndi Craig wrote:
>OK, maybe it is time for a new 'controversial' topic, now that it seems
>we are done with the great ride time debate ;-)
>
>
>i've been doing 25s for about a year. i am happy doing 25s -- i don't
>have time to train for longer distances - i have another horse i compete
>with in dressage -- and i don't want to do 50s.
>
>i have been getting the feeling that the LD riders are the
>"stepchildren" of the aerc, although if you look at the dollars, the
>25-milers usually generate the most income for rides, just because there
>are more of them....
>
>so here's a question for everyone.
>
>i recently received a mailing for a ride where they were priced as
>follows:
>
>25 mile $55
>
>50 mile $75
>
>75 mile $100
>
>i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked to
>pay more than their fair share. if you calculate it on a per-mile basis,
>the 25s are $2.20 a mile, whereas the 75s are only 1.30 a mile...almost
>double for the 25s..
>
>i especially feel this is unfair for other reasons:
>
>1) 25 milers only have one vet check
>2) most 25 milers do not spend an additional night at camp, where many
>50s, and virtually all of the 75s do.
>
>opinions?
>
>cyndi
>
>cyndi.craig@chron.com
>donerail farm
>alvin, tx
>
>
>
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801212059.NAA13830@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Is this Fair?
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:59:36 MST
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2]
Let's see how I read the pricing:
$1 per mile regardless of mileage (probably $50 for the 25 would
have been better.) That leaves $25 left over.
Awards dinner - Regardless of mileage, everyone probably gets the
same dinner, and if provided, lunch and breakfast.
Insurance - The insurance company doesn't care how many miles you
are riding. If you sue them, will you only sue for an
amount half that of what a 50 milers would sue?
Vets - Only 1 vet check for the 25? I think not. There is the pre-ride
check, the post-ride check, and any checks on the trail. Yes
the greater the distance, the more checks, but usually, the
same vets will be at the various checks. Also, since there are
more 25 mile riders, there needs to be more vets for them.
Porta-potties - Will the 25 milers only use the porta-potties half
as much as the 50 milers? Remember, if only one 25 mile
rider decides to stay over night, then the porta-potties have
to be there the entire time.
All the rest of the stuff that goes into the rides.
Sounds pretty fair to me. Of course, I'd like to go back to
a total price of a dollar a mile. Unfortunately, inflation has
caught up with us.
>i recently received a mailing for a ride where they were priced as
>follows:
>
>25 mile $55
>50 mile $75
>75 mile $100
>
>i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked to
>pay more than their fair share. if you calculate it on a per-mile basis,
>the 25s are $2.20 a mile, whereas the 75s are only 1.30 a mile...almost
>double for the 25s..
>
>i especially feel this is unfair for other reasons:
>
>1) 25 milers only have one vet check
>2) most 25 milers do not spend an additional night at camp, where many
>50s, and virtually all of the 75s do.
--
Wendy
\|/
/\ -O-
/**\ /|\
/****\ /\
/ \ /**\ Here there be dragons
/ /\ / \ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\/\/\ /\
/ / \ / \ / \/\/ \/ \ /\/ \/\ /\ /\/ / / \/ \
/ / \/ /\ \ / \ \ / \/ / / \/ \/ \ / \ \
/ / \/ \/\ \ / \ / / \
__/__/_______/___/__\___\__________________________________________________
Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
Hewlett-Packard Company e-mail: wendy@fc.hp.com
Mail Stop A2-5UB3 Telnet: 229-2182 (898-2182 as of Nov 1.)
3404 E. Harmony Rd. AT&T: (970) 229-2182 (898-2182)
Fort Collins, CO, 80528-9599 FAX: (970) 229-2038 (898-2038)
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 15:09:55 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
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To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: dogs and trails
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Hey!! I almost always bring my dog to rides. It's not that I just want to
bring her, well that is true, but I don't have a baby sitter. I can't just
leave her with anyone, my husband works long hours and is rarely home on
weekends and there is no where else to leave her. So, like lots of people
with kids, I took on the responsibility of my animals and that is where I
keep them, with me. I don't let her run around loose in camp. I don't
take her on the trails with me. She sleeps in the tent or truck with me,
so she is not out vandalizing camps and barking all night. I try to be
responsible. But, most of the time if I have to leave the dog at home,
it means I don't get to go. So.....she and I will see you there!!
APPY TRAILS
SAMM C. BARTEE
Auburn, Al. SE Region
with
SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance newbie
85 miles and.....
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From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
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To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: ridecamp booth
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Hey Steph, Mike, Russ, Denise!!
We will see you and everyone else at the ride camp booth!!
I can't wait, this is sooooo cool.
APPY TRAILS
SAMM C. BARTEE
Auburn, Al. SE Region
with
SIR REVEL--1305 miles and........!!!
B JETS WAR EAGLE--endurance newbie
85 miles and.....
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:18:04 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
References: <199801212017.MAA18876@web1.calweb.com>
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Lucy C Trumbull wrote:
When I got home, I
> dutifully tried it on Mouse, and she totally ignored me.
>
> I decided two things - either I was doing it wrong (how
> *much* do you "go in" with your fingers?); or Mouse just
> wasn't ticklish enough (she's very bored by being touched
> all over and doesn't get wriggley about anywhere).
>
> Thoughts?
Or - Your horses back is so stiff that she physically can't lift her
back.
Lauren
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From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
In-Reply-To: <34C6660C.3F26@fea.net> from Lauren Horn at "Jan 21, 98 01:18:04 pm"
To: fourhorn@fea.net
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 13:47:02 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
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> Or - Your horses back is so stiff that she physically can't lift her
> back.
I don't know, but I suspect not.
She's very bendy side to side (for instance, I regularly
see her scratching itches on her rear leg by bending her
head around to it. She'll also turn her hear around to my
foot when I'm riding her).
I know side to side movement is different to up and down - but
I don't think of her as being a stiff horse. She's 5 and we've
only just started riding lightly, if that's any help.
Could it be she just hasn't figured out what I want? Or
that her back muscles are too weak at this stage to be
able to lift it more than imperceptably.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:16:20 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801212216.OAA17536@fsr.com>
Subject: Price of Horses
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Karen Malcor-Chapman
Email: khornerstone@jps.net
<< The day has come when people outside our sport no longer think we ride horses fresh from the killers....we are now BREEDING good horses. And, suitably, they should command better prices for the sellers.
I, too, am one of those who would reduce the price on my animal if the home is the right one. Even if at a loss.
Teddy>>
Me too! Although endurance is not my primary market - I breed horses that are substantial enough, sound enough and mentally able to be excellent endurance horses and I love seeing them go to good USING homes, to the point where I do adjust prices if I feel the match is a good one.
This year we've been thrilled to lease for breeding a mare that I bred myself 11 years ago, and who has, in the meantime, completed the Tevis two years in a row with her owner Heidi Paul. Sir's Pride has been (and will be again) an excellent endurance horse, and, although she's not related to my stallion, it's great to look at the two of them, both products of my own breeding decisions, and see the similarities - great bone, straight legs, balanced bodies, and, as a couple new to endurance riding said when they visited us recently - "your horses are all so great - they all have "big feet"! <grin> When you add the great dispositions there's just nothing you can't do, IMHO!
We look forward to the 1999 foal of Khornerstone KpM and Sir's Pride with great anticipation and hope... and if there's an endurance career in that foal's future (or any of its siblings), then we'll cheer with much happiness! Meanwhile, I get to ride a Tevis horse, too! <grin> Bet she doesn't stop at yard sales like my stallion does! <g>
- Karen
KpM Cornerstone Arabians
http://www.kpmcornerstone.com
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Message-ID: <34C672E6.528ED193@cyberspy.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:12:54 -0500
From: "Frank W. Vans Evers" <vans@cyberspy.com>
Reply-To: vans@cyberspy.com
Organization: Frank's Repairs
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: suggestions to stop a kicker
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I have a 12 year old mare that is good to ride but she will kick another
horse that comes up behind her. I do not mind hanigna sign or red ribben
in her tail to identify her as a potential kicker but does anyone have
any suggestions to curb her tendency.
I thought I had figured out a way to feel her adjusting to kick but I do
not always catch her.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
/s/ Frank
----------------------------------
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Frank W. Vans Evers
mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
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From: Tivers <Tivers@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5a4d6e44.34c6768b@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:28:24 EST
To: bluwolf@earthlink.net, ssolis@lg.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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In Standardbreds there are two kinds of trotting gaits--passing and line-
gaited. The passing gait is the best for high speed because the horse can
reach the hind legs forward without experiencing interference with the
forelegs. The line gait is tricky because you have to shoe the horse to avoid
almost certain interference. These animals also develop a lot of action in the
front, leading to injury, because they're very concious of having to get those
front feet out of the way.
ti
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Ryder--are you lurking out there??
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:28:36 -0800
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If you are--e mail me please! thanks.
dorothy beebe
6
for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:40:46 -0800
From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Ryder--are you lurking out there??
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:28:36 -086137 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003351 06461476005 0013114 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from nt1.factory.net (nt1.factory.net [204.162.114.84]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA20668 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:51:42 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:48:55 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
Lucy wrote:
>When I got home, I
>dutifully tried it on Mouse, and she totally ignored me.
Just this morning I was brushing Magnum horse untied
in his paddock . He thinks I always carry carrots in
my jacket pockets. Without moving his feet he had
stretched his head all the way around to his hip and
upside down... snif-snuf-snuf... looking as cute as
equinely possible. His neck went Pop-pop! Just like
a chiropractor. :) Make sure to brush both sides.
For the belly lift I have used a hoof pick. Plus
you gotta find just the right spot. Kinda hollow
area. Start with a gentle poke. Personally,
Magnum doesn't like this as much and will eventually
pin his ears, stomp a foot, and try to ignore me.
He's sensitive and ticklish though so it's tough.
The thing is, there must be 5 acres of belly under
there!
The other stretch that really helps the back
and topline is the carrot just off the ground
between the front pasturns. If you can get his
eyes between his front legs and back legs...
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Lampley's Basic Mineral
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:37:46 -0800
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Does anyone use this product?
I'm leaning towards a daily wormer (Strongid), but am still doing some
research to be sure before buying this or anything else. From what I
understand, their Basic Mineral is diatomaceous earth.
The reason for the change is twofold: 1) Ivermectin is just too dangerous,
in my opinion; and, 2) I want to keep my mare's winter weight on her this
season, if at all possible. So I want her to utilize as much of her food
as possible.
dorothy & elly
taylorsville, ca
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From: MARDIP <MARDIP@aol.com>
Message-ID: <514ce6fd.34c66afc@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:39:06 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, Patti_Carey@IIMAK.CCMAIL.compuserve.com,
ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs and Trail Riding
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In a message dated 98-01-21 05:53:21 EST, paus@micoks.net writes:
<< My black lab, Bubba, the hound dog, Duke, and neighbor's golden retriever,
Santa, all follow me on all my training rides. They love it. They get quite
upset when the see Star go in the trailer because they know they will be
left behind. They get some aches and pains now and then, but they are dogs
and need to get out and go.
>>
It's one of those things where if the time & place are right... I take my
1yr+ German Shepherd male with me riding when I can, but choose my riding
destination carefully. I ride where the possibility of running into other
horses is slim, and where I feel he'll be safe. He loves it, and needs it
(he's part bulldozer & I swear is inexhaustible.) If I had his energy...
However - like I prefaced - I believe there is a time & place.
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:02:15 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: lyoness@castlenet.com (Joane Pappas White)
Subject: Convention
Hi Samm,
I'm just heading to the plane! I attended the convention last year but
didn't really know anyone as I was very new. Now that I have "talked" to
many of you, this year's convention should be a lot of fun. The Ridecamp
Badges are a great idea!
Joane White
Price, Utah
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:59:13 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: In Search Of: The Perfect Boot
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Since I learned at Long Leaf that my Blunnies don't have enough ankle
support, I've been boot-shopping for months now. I've just about given
up on riding boots and am looking at hiking boots. I tried on a pair of
Vasque Clarion Impact Leather hiking boots today, which I really liked --
lots of good ankle support, thick rubber sole, steel shank, waterproof,
well-made, etc. and they fit well (I have a wide foot). They don't have a
defined heel, but I don't think I need that since I use EZ-Ride stirrups
with safety cage.
Does anyone else use hiking boots like this? This particular one, by
chance? Is there some consideration I have missed that would make hiking
boots like this a poor choice for endurance riding? Does anyone else
have any other good suggestions for cushy boots with good support?
(Ariats are out, too narrow)
Glenda & Lakota
Perfect Boot
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:04:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
In-Reply-To: <34C61F47.237C228A@chron.com>
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> i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked to
> pay more than their fair share. if you calculate it on a per-mile basis,
> the 25s are $2.20 a mile, whereas the 75s are only 1.30 a mile...almost
> double for the 25s..
I agree with the calculations of Linda and Wendy on this one. You simply
cannot charge "per-mile" when there are so many costs that remain the
same regardless of how many miles one rides.
I ride LD and I think the prices are perfectly fair -- in fact, I think
these rides are a pretty good bargain in the category of
"Sports & Entertainment."
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:55:45 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Selenium requirements
References: <34C568E5.1C0@lightspeed.net>
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Heya Jim,
One of the things to keep in mind about nutrition is that it's not an
exact science. There are alot of variables that can make x number of mg
for one animal toxic while being deficient for another. Size of the
animal, absorptive efficiency, performance level, source of the selenium
(or whatever), etc. There are also alot of nutritive factors that
affect how an animal will respond to a particular mineral---for example,
there is some evidence that feeding linseed meal with high doses of
selenium seems to have some protecting effect against selenium toxicity
(THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION TO GO FEED A BUNCH OF LINSEED MEAL TO YOUR
HORSE SO HE DOESN'T GET SELENIUM TOXICITY, FOLKS!!!). Exactly how and
with what feeds you supply Se also affects the amount of Se that gets
into the bloodstream as well. Get the picture?
Regarding the different numbers from different sources---my numbers
(from several different sources) and Heidi's are close enough as far as
I'm concerned to be ballparked together. There ARE some areas in which
NRC is considered outdated, but my understanding is that selenium levels
aren't one of them. The original data was from a number of good studies
that aren't any less valuable just because they're ten or fifteen years
old. You can always add more information, but new information does not
ALWAYS have to discredit earlier data. Also, out of curiousity, I
emailed Skip Hintz, one of the editors of the NRC book(s) and he thinks
the Se requirements are still valid as well.
Lay publications (as in the ones that are published for the general
public, not the scientific community)(and no flames are implied here) I
don't tend to place as much value in unless I know the author's
credentials and their sources. Courtney I know has a Ph.D in I think
chemistry or physics (can't remember for sure, but we had a great
discussion about the crystalline structures of enteroliths) and is no
dummy, so in his case I'd like to hear more about why he recommends the
numbers he does. The other lay publication, well, I dunno.
The UCD publication is probably based on good, probably more recent
data. When they say small excesses may be toxic, I think they're
probably saying what I said in my first paragraph---one horse's bread is
another horse's poison. However, let's use some common sense here---if
brand shiny new data stated that only a few mgs per day causes toxicity,
why aren't there horses all over the country having Se toxicity problems
after decades of being fed at much higher levels? I'm not a DVM that
spends all day looking at horses, but my understanding is that Se
toxicity problems are fairly rare without trying real hard, as Heidi
pointed out. And just hay alone from a non-Se-deficient area (let alone
grain mixes that have Se added) would provide an amount of Se
considerably over what some of these sources are considering "toxic".
So I have some doubts that such low levels are really all that toxic.
In my opinion (humble or otherwise), selenium poisoning is pretty easily
avoided by just not over-feeding it as a mineral supplement, UNLESS your
vet specifically tells you to feed at a certain level. 99% of the
mineral imbalances in animals (and humans) occur because an owner is so
concerned about providing enough of one mineral or vitamin that they
overdo and mess up the balance of all the other nutrients that are
affected or are antagonistic to the supplemented nutrient. Your best
bet is not to try to mess around too much with specific vitamin and
mineral levels by yourself unless you happen to have a degree in it. I
don't mean for this to sound stuffy, but it IS easy to cause more
problems than you solve---I DO have degree(s) in it, and _I_ don't mess
around with specific levels without a d*** good reason. If you think
your hay is deficient in Se, check with an extension agent. If it is,
fine. Either supplement with a complete grain mix that already has a
balanced vit-min pack added, or add a small amount of vit-min supplement
yourself, and DON'T exceed the recommended dosages. 99% of the time,
you'll be providing everything you need in sufficient quantities and
won't be anywhere near toxic levels. Where you ARE likely to get into
trouble is adding a dose of this supplement plus a dose of that
supplement, plus a handful of that one over there and a cup of this one
that was on sale. More is not better, and there are NUMEROUS nutrients
which can reach toxic levels if overfed. At best, you're making
expensive pee puddles. At worst, you're causing harm.
See ya,
Susan Garlinghouse
Jim Mitchell wrote:
>
> I can't seem to find agreement on the amount of selenium a horse needs and what is
> toxic. Below I have summarized information from posts to this group and some books.
> I have calculated the required and toxic amounts below for a 900 lb horse eating 20
> lb.s of food per day.
>
> Heidi Smith DVM says 8 to 10 mg/day is correct and 60 to 90 mg/day will cause chronic
> toxicity
>
> Susan Garlinghouse says 2mg/kg of diet which is 16 mg/day, almost twice Heidi's for my
> horse. Susan says toxic is 3.3mg/kg of body weight which is over 1200mg/day
>
> Duncan Fletcher quotes NRC which matches Susan's recommended amount.
>
> Courtney Hart's new book says .11mg/100 lb of body weight or 1 mg/day recommended
> Courtney states .22 can be low level toxic or 2mg/day can be cause chronic toxicity.
> This value is 1/5 to 1/10 what Susan & Heidi recommend
>
> Horse Owner's Vet Handbook (Giffin & Gore) pg373 states .1mg/kg of diet or .83mg/day
> recommended for my horse. 5mg/kg is toxic or 41 mg/day is toxic
>
> The UCD Book of Horses states .3ppm in the diet is recommended which calcs out to 2.5
> mg/day for my horse. It says "relatively small excesses may be toxic"
>
> Anyway you can see that what some people recommend is considered toxic by others.
> The UCD book is new and I have heard the NRC values may be outdated? Any comments?
>
> Jim Mitchell
>
> Sorry if this appears twice but it didn't seem to go through the first time. Jim
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Selinium requirements
> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 98 01:47:30 +0000
> From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>
> I can't seem to find agreement on the amount of selinium a horse needs and what is
> toxic. Below I have summarized information from posts to this group and some books.
> I have calculated the required and toxic amounts below for a 900 lb horse eating 20
> lb.s of food per day.
>
> Heidi Smith DVM says 8 to 10 mg/day is correct and 60 to 90 mg/day will cause chronic
> toxicity
>
> Susan Garlinghouse says 2mg/kg of diet which is 16 mg/day, almost twice Heidi's for my
> horse. Susan says toxic is 3.3mg/kg of body weight which is over 1200mg/day
>
> Duncan Fletcher quotes NRC which matches Susan's recommended amount.
>
> Courtney Hart's new book says .11mg/100 lb of body weight or 1 mg/day recommended
> Courtney states .22 can be low level toxic or 2mg/day can be cause chronic toxicity.
> This value is 1/5 to 1/10 what Susan & Heidi recommend
>
> Horse Owner's Vet Handbook (Giffin & Gore) pg373 states .1mg/kg of diet or .83mg/day
> recommended for my horse. 5mg/kg is toxic or 41 mg/day is toxic
>
> The UCD Book of Horses states .3ppm in the diet is recommended which calcs out to 2.5
> mg/day for my horse. It says "relatively small excesses may be toxic"
>
> Anyway you can see that what some people recommend is considered toxic by others. The
> UCD book is new and I have heard the NRC values may be outdated? Any comments?
>
> Jim Mitchell
ainst selenium toxicity
(THIS IS NOT A SUGGESTION TO GO FEED A BUNCH OF LINSEED MEAL TO YOUR
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:01:02 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
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> Linda S. Flemmer wrote to Cyndi:
>
> > Sounds like you need to see what other 25 mile rides in your area cost
> > to attend to see if this is reasonable. Compare limited distance
> > endurance to a competitive trail ride of the same distance, too.
> > Perhaps you could volunteer to assist with a ride and get an up close &
> > personal view of the finances involved. You'll be surprised how close
> > many rides come to barely breaking even.
Cyndi Craig wrote:
> that isn't the point. the point is, should 25-miler 'subsidize' those
> choosing to ride longer distances in aerc-sanctioned events? they
> already do, in one sense, since there are more of them -- but that is
> ok. if it were not for 25-milers, many rides could not make it
> financially. in some of the rides i've attended, there were 3 times as
> many 25-milers as 50 and 75/100 riders...which seems all the more unfair
> when they structure entry fees in such a way that the 25-milers are are
> asked to pay significantly more than their proportionate share of the
> total expenses...
Alternatively, the rides have in the past and can continue to run "lean"
50's & 100's to break even as in the past & leave off the 25 mile
distance. If this would eliminate that many riders, then we need fewer
portapotties, fewer meals from the caterer, fewer vets since there are
fewer horses, fewer volunteers for fewer teams (they eat, too), fewer
awards.
Ultimately, there is a base cost to put on a ride. The value appears to
increase with the increase in miles because the base price is met early
on. All riders must pay X amount for set costs, then tack on an
additional amount per mile for marking, transportation of staff,
additional portapotties of the trail diverges, etc. Your choice of how
far to ride. It does not mean that AERC is "out to get" or "persecute"
25 milers, nor is it asking 25 milers to subsidize the sport..
From another perspective, the 50 & 100 milers subsidize the 25 milers
with their knowledge, input into endurance equipment, establishment of
rides that later add on 25 mile limited distance events... Untangible
things but very real.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton MIlls,WV
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To: katswig@deltanet.com
Cc: HELFTER77@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods (Grains)
Message-ID: <19980122.081800.12982.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <Pine.SCO.3.96.980121102907.10333B-100000@delta1.deltanet.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:18:48 EST
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:48:39 -0800 (PST) K S Swigart
<katswig@deltanet.com> writes:
>
>> Sugar is as bad for horses as it is for any other species, and
>horses may
>> exhibit mood swings similarly seen in humans. Time and time again
>horses calm
>
>I must take exception to this blanket statement. Sugar is not "bad"
>for
>horses any more than it is for any other species. Considering that
>the
>body must convert all food to sugar (glucose) if it is to be used for
>fuel
Yea! Let's hear it for molasse. I've done 1700 miles ALL ON SWEET FEED!
O.K. I've admitted it. I do not mix up my own concoction. I do not
add any kind of vitamins, or any other supplement for that matter.
A few years ago I was groom at the North American Championships. The
horse I went with was fed a mixture of oats, corn, bran, and a couple of
supplements. Notice I did not say he "ate" it. Most of it was thrown
out. He looked like a kid holding his nose and eating brussel sprouts
and he stopped eating as soon as his stomach quit grumbling.
I used to work for a Thoroughbred trainer who prided himself in only
feeding rolled oats with corn oil. I threw out an awful lot of that too.
All I know is that when I feed Southern Gold "Heavy Grain (looks like
Omalene). (10% protein, 3.0% fat, 5% crude fiber) and a cup of oil,
Kaboot actually chews and swallows his food with gusto, at a ride and at
home. I just don't see why some people go to such extremes to balance a
perfect diet, then don't notice that the horse hates it. I wonder if
Michael Jordon eats a perfectly scientific, disgusting meal every night.
I never cease to be amazed at the people who pay a ton for all the best
additives, then feed crappy hay.
Angie and Kaboot (who loves sweet feed and Tifton Bermuda hay.)
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Message-Id: <34C6A574.412C@sierra.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:48:36 -0800
From: Kay Mathews <kmathews@sierra.net>
Reply-To: kmathews@sierra.net
Organization: Mathews Appraisal Company
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Subject: Traveling wide
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I guess I have to "de-lurk" here a moment. My anglo-arab gelding GUS
travels very wide. When going to other areas I have been instructed to
say, "please put on card he travels wide in rear", or as one vet said:
"/This horse travels like he has a corn cob up his a--". At one ride
the vet swore he was tying up (he wasn't). I find it one of life's
wonderful inconsistencies. He does practice dressage, just not for
show.
for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:08:14 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:48:36 -0800
From: Kay Mathews <kmathews@sierra.net>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:31:40 -0600
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: saddle survey
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That's why each of us has to go through the saddle odyssey. It helps to
gatehr information, but as you have learned, what works for one horse and
rider will not work for another.
chris paus & starman -- on our 12th and final saddle I think
At 12:49 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Kimberly Price wrote:
>Many people are asking me to send them the results of my saddle
>questions. Well, there are at least 50 responses and 45 different
>saddles, so I don't know how useful they would be. I am tallying them
>by Saddle/ Writer / Experience of rider if known / Comments onto a
>spreadsheet. I wouldn't know how to transfer this on the web.
>
>SO, I'm gonna cut-off at the end of next week and do a final tally (for
>my own sanity!) and anyone who is interested, please email me their fax
>number or mailing address.
>
>I'm learning I need to READ about these different types of saddles and
>then put out specific questions. One person loves this saddle, another
>found it gouged their horse's back, so I have to find out what fits him
>first and foremost and I'll probably be "stuck" for determining the
>comfort level myself on distance.
>
>Thanks to ALL your replies!
>Kimberly
>
>
>
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From: VMAXEPT <VMAXEPT@aol.com>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:17:16 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Gone TO AERC
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Will be off until Sunday night or Monday am
Now you will see how quite the list can get.. now all the lurkers can talk
about us bucket mouth lister's .. Hope all have a good weekend..
looking fwd to this one..
we leave in the early AM takes about 3 hrs or so to get there
Roger r
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:36:42 -0600
To: carlmey@citrus.infi.net, Rae <bolton@pbhs.brevard.k12.fl.us>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: SS loin rubs---I know not again!!
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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I second that on the sportsaddles. I thoroughly enjoyed riding in one I
borrowed for a weekend. It was like riding on a pillow. But, the white
marks on Star's back were worse AFTER the sports saddle. And I don't think
it is because of my riding. I'm not a "floppy" rider.
I've tried the Stonewall. Teh one I had was a very nice saddle, but didn't
work on Star, too narrow a tree. Our 12th saddle is an aussie, an Outback
Campdrafter. So far, I've noticed more brown hairs are filling in where the
white hairs were on his back. It must be a better fit for him.
Every horse is different and no saddle, no matter how much craftsmanship or
engineering goes into it, will fit every horse out there...
chris paus & patient star
At 01:33 PM 1/21/98 -0500, carl meyer wrote:
>Hi Rae..
>
>Regarding the loin rubs : in talking to another competitor last fall,
>she was noticing loin hair rubs as her horse grew longer hair..they
>did not show up when he was slick and smooth...I can't remember if it
>was a Sport Saddle or not....had you considered this factor? Is he at
>all tender or ouchy in ANY way? Getting on, getting off; is he travel-
>ing true, etc. If nothing has changed except the loin rubs, and you've
>been happy with the saddle before, you might just keep an eye of "watch-
>ful neglect" on things and be ever aware of ANY other unusual sign of
>possible discomfort..(.I ignored these signs with my gelding using a
>S.S. and really created discomfort for him and wasted a 100 mi. ride
>effort when we were forced to pull at 91 miles as his back was so sore.
>He never ran worse than 5th place (in very good company) all day and
>into the night, but didn't go anywhere..he stayed in the same place
>throughout; WHAT HEART!..I felt like such a dummy when I finally diag-
>nosed the problem..I've apologized to him many times). Since taking that
>particular saddle off of him, and going back to the WONDERFUL Stonewall,
>using the padding appropriate for his particular conformation (hi/low
>shoulder) and for the saddle, we've been in heaven! This is not to put
>down the S.Saddle...but over the long distances, in the heat, and with
>my horse, it didn't work....I have it for sale, by the way, along with
>2 1" Equilizer pads, all in good condition...14 1/2" seat, stirrups set
>back, 3" cantle, raised pommel, black ; $695 plus shipping...I now have
>2 Stonewalls: a 301 model (discontinued - it's an english style cutback)
>and a 400 model (401 I think..can't locate brochure at this moment,but
>it rides and fits the same, but has a highish pommel..we had our custom-
>ized by having it made with 1" off the pommel)..this saddle will "hang"
>you in the perfect balanced position..'tis wonderful...and I love the
>fenders too..didn't have them on the other model; used neopreme wraps
>which, by the way, came on my Sport Saddle..I secure them with black
>electrical tape; works great...other wise, to stop the rubbing from the
>stirrup "leathers", one has to cover them in a fleece tubing (which will
>wear out rapidly I find, and/or go to $99 a pair Ariat half-chaps...THEY
>are great; and take a beating...just had my first pair patched for $22
>at Tack Shack in Ocala..)...back to the fenders: I can actually ride
>and gallop my gelding, American Express, (not always an easy ride) with-
>out wearing my half-chaps and without rubbing....cool!
>
>Information is always to be digested and applied to one's own circum-
>stances...hope this helps Rae....also, you mentioned that your horse's
>back has changed...sounds like you could be getting a bit of a bridge
>from this...try lifting the horses back each time you're near him! It
>will help his top line..and he may be holding some discomfort in his
>back and loin area....you do this by positioning your fingers..nail side
>next to his skin (short nails) and gently but firmly going in with your
>fingertips/nail tips UNDER HIS BELLY...you will see the back come up!
>Do this a couple of times EVERY TIME YOU'RE NEAR THE HORSE, talking to
>him and stroking him..then you can measure the amount of lift you get
>as to the progress you're making in other depts....hope I explained this
>o.k....this I learned from Linda Tellington-Jones work...I am a TTEAM
>Practitioner...this stuff works ! The mailing address and ph/# for
>STONEWALL SADDLES, should anyone be interested, is:
>27180 Citrus Ave. Perris, Ca. 92571 ---- Ph. (909)928-3244
>Jerry Stoner, saddlemaker
>Nancey , his assistant
>
>See you at the FLORIDA CLASSIC !
>
>Deena, Ride Mgr.
>FL. ENDURANCE CLASSIC 7 March '98
>carlmey@citrus.infi.net
>10155 S. Forestline Ave.
>Inverness,Fl. 34452
>
>
>
>
2.00bc5510@mail.micoks.net>
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:45:58 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: SS loin rubs---I know not again!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980121203642.00bc5510@mail.micoks.net>
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> >Regarding the loin rubs : in talking to another competitor last fall,
> >she was noticing loin hair rubs as her horse grew longer hair..they
> >did not show up when he was slick and smooth...I can't remember if it
> >was a Sport Saddle or not....had you considered this factor? Is he at
I posted a similar message not too long ago, as Lakota was getting the
hair rubbed off his back at the back edge of the saddle. Since I had been
using the same saddle for nearly a year without problems, I didn't think
(and sincerely hoped) it was a saddle fit problem. Susan Milam suggested
to me it might be a "grabbing" problem with the fleece saddle pad and his
coarse winter coat, as she'd had that problem with one of her horses. So
I tried a slick-finish polished cotton saddlepad for awhile, and it seems
to have done the trick. The hair is growing back on those bare spots.
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 18:47:58 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp), trailriding@cwa.com
From: Sue Riegel <riegels@cdsnet.net>
Subject: Soft Rider Saddle Available
Cc: caballo-l@islandnet.com
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We currently have a new Soft Rider Saddle available,
ordered and returned unused. It's available for immediate
shipment.
Black leather with deep purple pommel and cantle.
Stainless steel fittings. D-rings for English type
breastplate. Tapadero stirrups. Sounds wild but is
quite handsome!
Price: $575
Contact me if you need more information about the Soft
Rider Saddle.
If interested in the saddle, contact Jack Underwood,
541-826-9668 (So. Oregon).
Sue
Peruvians and Keeshonden
So. Oregon
Sue Riegel, So. Oregon
Peruvians and Keeshonden
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:49:30 -0700
From: "Marcus R. Hoff" <mrhoff@srv.net>
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We will be bringing corrals to the PNER convention in OR.Feb 6th. If you
are
thinking of ordering a corral and live in the NW this would be a good
time to let us know.
We will have information on the Wolverine Ride also.
M.R.Hoff
HORSE-N-AROUND Corral Systems
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From: Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2b529809.34c6c0f4@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:45:46 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: wide gait in hind end
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The discussion of gaits got me thinking of a recently published book called
"The Nature of Horses," by Stephen Budiansky. In a section on the mechanics of
movement, the author says, "a medium trot is more energy efficient than a fast
walk, and a medium canter is more energy efficient than a fast trot." He says
that each gait has an optimal speed, which horses naturally tend to favor.
"When traveling a these optimal speeds, the energy required to move a given
distance is the same whether at the walk, trot, or gallop."
In a way this makes sense, and yet, the implication is that a canter (at the
optimal speed) could be an energy efficient gait. But surely the trot is the
gait of choice for endurance? In reality, is the trot more energy efficient
than the canter, at least for distances? Is it preferred because it can be
sustained for a longer period of time?
(Then there are the horses like my husband's appy, who cantered for the first
half of the 25-mile Twenty Mule Team Ride several years ago, but came into the
vet check in excellent shape. [Shame on these people with out-of-control
horses!])
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Message-ID: <34C6C40E.3BE7@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:59:33 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
References: <199801212007.MAA16137@web1.calweb.com>
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Lucy C Trumbull wrote:
>
> Carl Meyer wrote:
>
> > ...try lifting the horses back each time you're near him! It
> > will help his top line..and he may be holding some discomfort in his
> > back and loin area....you do this by positioning your fingers..nail side
> > next to his skin (short nails) and gently but firmly going in with your
> > fingertips/nail tips UNDER HIS BELLY...you will see the back come up!
> > Do this a couple of times EVERY TIME YOU'RE NEAR THE HORSE, talking to
> > him and stroking him..then you can measure the amount of lift you get
> > as to the progress you're making in other depts....
>
> When I was at Karen Chaton's house a month or so ago, she showed
> me this lift (along with the "getting the horse to bend around
> and take the treat from his hip" stretch). When I got home, I
> dutifully tried it on Mouse, and she totally ignored me.
>
> I decided two things - either I was doing it wrong (how
> *much* do you "go in" with your fingers?); or Mouse just
> wasn't ticklish enough (she's very bored by being touched
> all over and doesn't get wriggley about anywhere).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
> Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
> Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
>
> http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
> http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Hi Lucy..
What breed is your "Mouse"? Just curious...at any rate, as far as the
amount of pressure one "goes in" with on the belly lifts, depends...it's
definitely not supposed to resemble tickling...this can be annoying to
some horses...stroke with firm enough strokes on her back, sides, etc.,
relaxing her with your voice all the while,then, to just the OTHER SIDE
of the meridian of the underbelly from the side you're standing on, try
going in with a pretty firm pressure in a couple of different places...
you don't linger there with your touch, just lift, stroke, lift, stroke
and that's enough for each time...if you get NO response what-so-ever,
1. she may not need to lift her back (but I would try to do so before
and after grooming, saddling and riding);
2. you may need to get her more responsive to various touches and pres-
sures... no response to pressure on the back and loin area is not
necessarily a good sign..it can mean that she is very tight and is
holding all of this in a locked-in mode...could also apply to belly
lift no-response....just keep playing around with the excercise and
see if you don't get a result sooner or later. Our Argentine TB, a
former polo pony, is not nearly as responsive as my Arab gelding...
the Arg. TB. is a heavily muscled fellow with a very strong back and
loin area..I haven't worked on him much at all, but lifting a horse's
back is second nature to me now, and in going in and putting on his
sheet, feeding, etc., I'll run my hand along his topline and go under
and lift his back...I think he was holding himself stiffly at first,
before he had a lot of confidence in me, and although he didn't re-
sist, neither did he lift his back...maybe he didn't need it...he has
a lot stronger assembly than the particular Arab I'm riding, however,
he did lift up a couple of times, so who knows? I'm not the one rid-
ing him, so I don't handle him that much...my husband doesn't do that
kind of stuff (that's why I do!) and all I do is keep a watchful eye
on things...any time these equine athletes work for us and use them-
selves the way we ask them to, they can all use some back-lifting, so
you'll never do any harm....certainly, for anyone reading this, you
want to use common sense and not surprise a touchy individual by put-
ting your hands under its belly and digging your fingers in...be
smooth about it, stroke and talk soothingly to the horse, make sure
both of you are breathing...yes, breathing! We, and horses, tend to
hold our breaths when concentrating or when unsure or in fear or -
pain...relax, breath, the horse will breath; stroke, go under the
belly with your finger tips up, stroke the underbelly first, then
apply the lifting technique, using quite a lot of pressure, and then
release...you'll probably get a nice lift with this method...do it
frequently...the horses like it!
Hope this helps. Enjoy your horse!
Deena Meyer
Florida
carlmey@citrus.infi.net
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 04:24:37 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34c7c9da.7922500@mail.mti.net>
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:45:46 EST, Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com> wrote:
>The discussion of gaits got me thinking of a recently published book called
>"The Nature of Horses," by Stephen Budiansky. In a section on the mechanics of
>movement, the author says, "a medium trot is more energy efficient than a fast
>walk, and a medium canter is more energy efficient than a fast trot." He says
>that each gait has an optimal speed, which horses naturally tend to favor.
>"When traveling a these optimal speeds, the energy required to move a given
>distance is the same whether at the walk, trot, or gallop."
>In a way this makes sense, and yet, the implication is that a canter (at the
>optimal speed) could be an energy efficient gait. But surely the trot is the
>gait of choice for endurance? In reality, is the trot more energy efficient
>than the canter, at least for distances? Is it preferred because it can be
>sustained for a longer period of time?
Budiansky is right. The most efficient gait depends on the speed you
are travelling. Above a certain speed a canter uses less energy than
a trot. This speed is different for different horses. On a flat
trail I have cantered for 49 out of 50 miles.
You must also consider energy use per mile vs. energy use per minute
(or per hour). A gait that takes the energy use above a horse's
anaerobic threshold will tire him quickly. But the above is a reason
why both the horse and rider who finish at the end are often more
tired than those who finished up front. Walking reduces the energy
use per hour, but not the energy use per mile.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:10:24 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Selenium requirements
References: <34C568E5.1C0@lightspeed.net> <34C69911.2A08@worldnet.att.net> <34C6A3FE.3ED2@lightspeed.net>
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Jim Mitchell wrote:
>
> Hi Susan,
> If Duncan's post is correct, that NRC recommends .9mg/day for a supplement and not to
> exceed 16mg/day then I think everybody is in pretty close agreement except maybe for
> Heidi. (See Duncan's table)
I think it's important to differentiate between "supplement" and
"requirements". Duncan's numbers of .9 mg/day are based actually on an
NRC recommendation of .1 mg/kg of total ration. So .9 mg/day would be
fine for a 800 pound horse eating 19.8 pounds of feed per day (or 2.5%
of his body weight on a daily basis, which is fairly normal). For a
1200 pound horse, it's a little light, but still probably okay. For a
mini horse (granted, not common in endurance), it's about two and a
quarter times higher than is required, which may or may not cause
problems. Also, feeding 16 mg/day as an absolute value would be
excessive for an 800 pound horse, but okay for a 1500 pound draft
horse. Again, don't calculate by absolute values, calculate by the NRC
recommended amount PER KG OF RATION. As I discussed in my previous
post, people strongly tend to overfeed mineral supplements and alot of
owners will go with "if .9 mg per day is good, two or three times that
must be better", and that's when you get into trouble (and not just with
selenium). So I much strongly prefer not to talk in absolute values,
but to recommend amounts based on either body weight, or mg per kg of
feed, which then allows for the wide variations between horses. Common
mistake.
Back to the difference between "supplement" and "requirement". It's
important that nobody confuse these numbers. The NRC recommendations of
.1 mg/kg of total ration is the TOTAL requirement of Se per day. That's
not the amount that needs to be SUPPLEMENTED on top of whatever Se is
contained in the feed. That's why I recommend that owners should be at
least reasonably aware of what part of the country their hay is coming
from---hay from the NW may need some minor supplementation. Here in the
SW, it's unlikely that any horse needs extra Se, unless specifically on
the advice of their vet for a very specific reason.
I also appreciated Duncan's explanation of LD50 which puts
> your high dosage in better perspective.
Yes, I did state 3.3 mg/kg of body weight as being toxic, rather than as
being only 50% lethal according to the LD50 data. And yes, in a group
of horses fed at this level, 50% of those horses will probably survive.
Personally, I'm not willing to play those odds, are you? As far as I'm
concerned, only a 50% chance of survival IS toxic and/or lethal for all
intents and purposes outside the laboratory. Especially in light of
significant research that has indicated that supplementation OVER .1
mg/kg of diet does not provide additional benefits. LD50 trials
generally mean the animal dies in a fairly rapid period of time---it
doesn't take into account toxic affects that may happen two or three
months down the road, which would be likely for the hoof deformities
common in Se toxicity. So yes, an explanation of LD50 levels are
enlightening, but it's more important to apply some practical common
sense to the application of that data. No flames here, by the way.
So as I mentioned above, the
> recommended values are all very close, basically between 1 and 2.5 mg/day. I was aware
> of the interrelationship between Se and other minerals and feeds. I also know that
> different horses and different exercise schedules should require different amounts being
> used and discarded by the horse.
Something else to keep in mind is that all of the above numbers are
based on ORAL selenium. Selenium is absorbed differently when fed as
opposed to injectable, which is sometimes available through catalogs or
feed stores. A horse owner that happened to have a bottle of injectable
E-Se and injected a nice big whack of it could be causing toxicity
problems. The only person who should EVER provide Se in an injectable
form should be a DVM.
One more point. Ruminants (cows and sheep) don't utilize Se as well, so
feeds designed for them can sometimes have much higher levels than are
recommended for horses. Pigs require 10 mg/kg of feed (10 times that of
horses), so you also have to be careful about feeding rations formulated
for pigs to horses. There is also a relationship between copper and
selenium, so a horse that for some reason had high serum copper levels
is even more likely to have problems with selenium.
Susan Garlinghouse
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 00:15:32, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: equa-blu
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Yes! I received the shipment of Equa-Blu and it WILL be at the convention,
probably at my room at the Hyatt for those who ordered some.
For those who want mail-outs, I'll post after the convention as to address/price.
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Endurance Arabians
OK
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Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:25:09 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Cc: <navion@lightspeed.net>
Subject: Fw: Selinium requirements
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:13:02 -0800
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You got me Jim. The UCD recomendation in the table should read 3, not 0.3. I
am embarrased - as an old engineer that did his work with a slide rule and
had to keep track of the decimal point in his head, I should be able to do
better - guess a few too many of them up there have damaged a few cells.
It is hard to know whether Hart was including any safety factor in the low
level toxicity, so I don't know quite where to put that number - make your
own decision.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Mitchell <navion@lightspeed.net>
To: Duncan Fletcher <dfletche@gte.net>
Date: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: Selinium requirements
>Duncan Fletcher wrote:
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>> For your 900lb (aprox 400kg) horse eating 20 lb (approx. 9kg). The
numbers
>> as follows:
>>
>> Recom Max Toxic LD50
>>
>> Heide 8-10 n/a 60-90 n/a
>> Duncan na 18 n/a n/a
>> Susan na 18 * 1320*
>> NRC 0.9 18 na 1320
>> Hart 1 na 2 na
>> Giffen 0.9 na 80 n/a
>> UCD 0.3 na na n/a
>>
>> na - no number given in post.
>> * Susan posted this (3.3 mg/kg body weight) as toxic in her post, but it
is
>> the LD50 number from NRC.
>>Hi Duncan,
> Thanks for the summary. A couple possible changes. The UCD book states
.3ppm of Se
>in their feed. This works out to 2.5mg/day I think, not .3 as you have in
the table.
>Also Courtney Harts book states 2mg/day as possible low level chronically
toxic. This
>probably fits better in the max. column. Thanks and let me know if you
think my math is
>wrong on the UCD formula.
> Also I was glad to see a better explanation of Susan's high amount and
the NRC max
>amount not the recommended amount.
>
>Jim Mitchell
>>
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You got me Jim. The UCD recomendation in the table should read 3, not 0.3. I
am embarrased - as an old engineer that did his work with a slide rule and
had to keep track of the decimal point in his head, I shou6160 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000010413 06461555401 0013103 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from heather.greatbasin.com (heather.greatbasin.com [140.174.194.41]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA16076 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:36:59 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:30:20 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: Belly Lifts
Cc: elsie@calweb.com
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>> When I was at Karen Chaton's house a month or so ago, she showed
>> me this lift (along with the "getting the horse to bend around
>> and take the treat from his hip" stretch). When I got home, I
>> dutifully tried it on Mouse, and she totally ignored me.
>>
>> I decided two things - either I was doing it wrong (how
>> *much* do you "go in" with your fingers?); or Mouse just
>> wasn't ticklish enough (she's very bored by being touched
>> all over and doesn't get wriggley about anywhere).
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>> Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
>> Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
Hi Lucy:
I was taught these belly lefts from my veterinarian (who is also an equine
chiropractor)...along with the stretching exercises. Each horse is
different with the amount of pressure you need to apply. I use about the
amount of pressure it would take if you were scratching hard on a bad itch!
Just keep scratching harder if you are not getting a response.
Eventually, Mouse will learn what you are doing and it will take less and
less pressure.
Right now, I can achieve the desired effect by using my metal curry comb
and scraping the mud off of their bellies! haha
I was told by another ridecamper to use the cap of a 2 liter (soda) bottle.
It might sound like torture, but you're really not hurting them. ;^)
Be careful though, some horses might want to kick at their bellies when you
do this. Mine only tolerate it because they know I'm going to be giving
them a treat next....after they touch their hips with their nose, of
course. The really great benefit of doing the stretching exercises is that
when you are riding your horse at a ride, you can not only feed them treats
from their back (without having to lean forward), but you can also dose
them with electrolytes! <g>
There are other exercises I do with them on a daily basis as well. In
addition to doing the belly lifts, you can achieve almost the same type of
lift from scratching really hard on their rear end, on each side of their
tail. Use both hands, and really scratch up and down, that causes them to
sort of curl up, and at the same time raise their back. (again, be careful
if your horse kicks) When you do the treat stretching exercises (carrots,
apples, etc.) it might take awhile to get the idea across. Once they
figure it out though, watch out! I can go out to the barn and Weaver will
come into his stall and turn and touch his hip...he'll do this on a ride
too now if he hears me get into my saddle bag. I'm not allowed to get
anything out just for me anymore...I have to give him something too...since
his nose is right there! (it's a wonder he doesn't get whiplash when he
hears that zipper, if we are stopped somewhere)
I also work on stretching them other ways too. It takes longer for them to
get the idea when you hold the treat under their bellies. The goal here is
to get them to reach between (under) their front legs. You can start by
getting them to reach down to their front hooves, and then slowly work your
way back farther and farther.
There are lots of other ground exercises you can do to get the horses to
use their abdominal muscles. If you have cavaletti, or even logs or
another type of obstacle several inches tall that will work. Any type of
obstacle you can walk the horse over that makes them really lift up and pay
attention to what they are doing should be a good exercise.
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Weaver, 1230 miles and....
& Rocky, 350 miles
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>, "Brad Patterson" <mbp@holly.colostate.edu>
Subject: Re: Eliminate Sanctioning 2-Day 100's & 3-Day 150's
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:13:15 -0700
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Brad:
I am deeply concerned and insulted by your attitude and the comments you
made in your post.
You stated <<<There is no way that riding a 2-Day 100 is the same as riding
a 1-Day
> 100 - never has been, never will! I can't think of anyone who has ridden
a
> continuous 150 miler (I'm sure someone has done it!), but I can't believe
> that riding three 50's in three days is the same as doing 150 miles in 36
> hours!!>>>>
Well, Arlene along with a number of other persons did the first 150 in one
day some years ago. She also did 150 in two days, something like 16 hours
riding time in Nevada a few years back.
You seem to denigrate the horsemanship of those doing fifty miles a day for
two or more days. It is obvious you do not understand the acts of
horsemanship necessary for this type of riding. You are falling into the
trap of considering the human as the most necessary factor of the team. I
would differ with you an that point.
Ask some of our vets who are well versed in the physiology of the horse if
a one day 100 is harder than a two day (try Matthew McKay Smith for one).
Try your same comments in the Board of Directors meeting and see how far it
gets you.
If you think that 75 milers are worth 1.25 points per mile then the LD 25
milers must be worth 0.50 points per mile?
Brad please think a bit more next time you have proposals to make and think
of what has taken place in the past.
I get the impression you have been doing what you accuse the riders of ,
DRINKING TO EXCESS. I will excuse your poor taste on that basis.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
> From: Brad Patterson <mbp@holly.colostate.edu>
> To: equine_athletes@hotmail.com
> Cc: aerc@foothill.net; b-mbobrow@worldnet.att.net; MBowers472@aol.com;
darolyn@swbell.net; ddc@Rt66.com; renegade12@juno.com;
dfrazier@mail.llion.org; lynng@access.mountain.net; jackson@inconnect.com;
Navarrada@aol.com; mmsprice@postoffice.ptd.net; ridecamp@endurance.net;
LRiedel769@aol.com; step@bluefish.fsr.com; cmiket@aol.com;
WWArabsrun@aol.com
> Subject: Eliminate Sanctioning 2-Day 100's & 3-Day 150's
> Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 11:38 PM
>
> Greetings Linda!
>
> Multi-Day (I am referring to those rides of two or more consecutive days,
> not "Special event rides" - see Rule 11.2 - that are series of rides on
> consecutive days totaling more than three days or 150 miles) Rides are
> great! Riding 50 miles two days in a row (almost) always beats only
riding
> one, and riding three days in a row (almost) always beats only riding
two,
> etc., etc., BUT
>
> Yes, it is time to for the AERC BOD to eliminate sanctioning 2-Day 100's
&
> 3-Day 150's.
>
> Why?
> * There is no way that riding a 2-Day 100 is the same as riding a 1-Day
> 100 - never has been, never will! I can't think of anyone who has ridden
a
> continuous 150 miler (I'm sure someone has done it!), but I can't believe
> that riding three 50's in three days is the same as doing 150 miles in 36
> hours!!
>
> * The Rider "Strategy" Myth: A rider will ride differently (in
strategic,
> pacing terms) if they are going to enter a 2-Day 100 than two consecutive
> 50's (50/50). BALONEY! Coming to the two day event, the rider will
always
> choose between one of three options:
> 1. Not riding (for various reasons), but drinking (also for various
reasons);
> 2. Being "competitive" (Top 10, etc.) on Day One, and hopefully riding
on
> Day Two if he/she has enough horse left, plus drinking;
> 3. Going for the mileage, and riding at a pace that they know they can
> finish both days, unless that evil stone finds a foot somewhere along the
> trail, plus drinking;
> So, which option will the rider choose if they want to enter both 50's?
#3.
> Which option will they choose if they want to enter the 2-Day 100? #3.
>
> * There is no awards program for them.
>
> * You get no extra point amount (like 1.5 for a one day 100) for them.
>
> * The only reason they were instituted was for the ROC as qualifiying
> critera. It is no secret that Susan does not actually require completion
> of "sanctioned" multiple-day events - she will accept completing any two
or
> three days in a row.
>
> * The "On-Going Myth Syndrome": Riders enter them because they believe
> that they are necessary for qualifying for some rides and so Ride
Managers
> sanction them because they believe riders want them. Net result: The
> first time a rider loses the 50 miles they completed the 1st day because
> they didn't finish the second day is the last time they enter a 2-Day
100,
> AND they cost the Ride Manager more money for sanctioning, ride fees
> (although not much here, because not many enter them - check the EN ride
> results!), and awards.
>
> * Sanctioning as a 3-Day 150 isn't necessary for a ride to be a Pioneer
> Event; it qualifies if it is three consecutive days of 50 miles or more
> each day.
>
> * Finally, the rules still would need a change if we continue to
sanction
> them. Rule 5.2 states that you have 12 hours to complete a 50, and 24
> hours to complete a 100. If you have entered a 2-Day 100, you should
have
> 24 hours of "total competition time"; if you complete Day 1 in 8 hours,
> that should leave you with 16 for Day 2. However, the Rule is not clear
on
> this, and because you are only riding 50 miles each day, some, but
> certainly not all, think you should have only 12 hours per day within
which
> you must complete.
>
> The AERC Competitions Committee and Board of Directors has discussed
> getting rid of this before - NOW IS THE TIME!
>
> Therefore, I propose to both the AERC Competitions and Sanctioning
> Commitees to eliminate sanctioning 2-Day 100's & 3-Day 150's.
>
> Happitrails!
> Brad.
>
> 1998 ENDURANCE
CALENDAR
>
> * April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
> * April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15
mile
> ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride
*
> (Briggsdale, CO)
> * June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
> (Red Feather Lakes, CO)
> * July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
> (Wellington, CO)
> * August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
> Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
> Wyoming &
> Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each
day
> is a seperate
> event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration
deadline
> is July 1st)
> * September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE
Rides
> *Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
> * October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile
ROOKIE
> Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
> * November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
>
> ***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
> ride unless otherwise noted.
>
> ***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
>
> "There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
>
> - Teddy Roosevelt
>
> RIDE INFO:
> Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
> Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
> Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
>
>
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Message-ID: <34C6E5BA.655E@fea.net>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:22:50 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
Reply-To: fourhorn@fea.net
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Subject: To Be Or Not To Be...
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I am having a hard time with my horse right now. We are going through
some problems and I keep thinking, " Will she make a good endurance
horse or not?"
I would like to hear any success stories and not so successful stories
of horses and prospects and hard work, training, therapy etc...Did you
eventually give up on your horse after a lot of hard work?...or...Did
your horse turn into a wonderful endurance horse after thinking they
would never cut it?
Lauren
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From: kitten@resp-sci.arizona.edu (Bruce Saul)
Message-Id: <9801220653.AA15233@resp-sci.arizona.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Evaluating foals
> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:43:07 -0600
> From: Lance Rosedale <rosedale@sonic.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: evaluating foals?
> Message-ID: <34C39EBB.E3B39373@sonic.net>
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>
> I'm thinking of breeding my Arab mare and am looking around at
> stallions, and, if possible, their get. I understand how to look at
> conformation in a grown horse, but what do you look for in a foal? Can
> they tell you anything? Can you assume that if the legs are correct
> they will stay correct?
>
> Thanks for any ideas--
>
> Eileen
Hi, Eileen, I do some breeding and I always try to look not only
at the stallion but all of his close relatives I can find, his sire, his
dam, his grandsire, his full and half siblings, as well as his foals.
The foals are really important as some stallions produce better than they
themselves are and some stallions do not reproduce themselves well. Some
stallions have good nicks with certain mare lines and some do well with
anything they are bred to. All of these factors plus how the traits that
the stallion has and passes on and the traits that the mare I am considering
breeding match up will go into my making my decisions.
The first thing to think about is what traits your mare has, her
ancestors, and so forth and how likely her traits are to be passed on. You
have to have a good mare to breed good foals. But you should also know that
there is no such thing as a perfect horse, near but not perfect, so you
should also be absolutely honest about the things in her that you want
to keep and those that you want to see corrected.
Now how to look at the stallion's foals, first look at the dams of
those foals, you can't look at the foals without seeing what parts she
is contributing and what parts he is contributing. The foals themselves
will have many things in common with older horses, they should have roughly
a 1/3 shoulder to 1/3 barrel to 1/3 hip body balance. Young foals will
have longer legs than they have body, if a very young foal doesn't have
that chances are it will have short legs as an adult. Foals change very
quickly and go through awkward growth spurts at certain times. They tend
to grow hindquarter first, then the body elongates, then the shoulder and
neck catch up and the whole cycle starts again. Certain lines stay balanced
as youngsters only to wind up not looking so good as adults, while others
go through the worst awkward phases only to look wonderful as adults. When
in doubt look at the stallion and dam of the foal to get an idea of which
lines you are looking at. And a few very rare horses will look good
regardless of what stage of growth they are in as well as into adulthood.
Look for straight legs, calf knees tend to be a problem the horse will
have as an adult, while over at the knees can stay or it may straighten
out, but crooked joints in a foal over a month old are likely to be a
problem for life. Foals that are just born are often a bit crooked in
the legs because of the tight compacting of the womb, they may be down
on the pasterns, or a little contracted in pastern or knee, as long as
it is relatively small and they straighten out quickly this is not a
problem. Some foals even come out "windswept" meaning that their legs
are both crooked to one side, I have seen even these foals straighten
out. Again minimally affected horses tend to straighten out better, but
a signifigantly affected foal may need veterinary attention to help
support it while it straightens out. Crookedness over 5 degrees often
needs surgery (you would be surprised how crooked that is). Once a foal
gets to being a month old though you should be seeing pretty straight legs.
A foal should not have any signs of offset cannons, those do not straighten
out at all and are a bad problem with some Arabs as it is a difficult
condition to breed out, look to the stallion and mare, if one of them
has offset cannons then chances are that about 1/2 of the offspring coming
from that horse will also have them. Newborn foals often have longer
gaskins than they do thighs, this tends to put them camping out behind,
the difficulty here is whether they will remain camped out or not. Within
two months the foal should have corrected that and stand with hock and
fetlock located so a plumbline dropped from the point of the hip intersects
with them, if it doesn't then look to the stallion and mare, if one of them
is camped out then the chances are that foal will also be camped out.
Look for straight hinds, some very minor sickle hocks can straighten out,
especially if it is coming from a recent widening growth spurt through
the hips while the pelvis has not yet caught up, however signifigant sickle
hocks will not straighten out. If the hip angle is good as a foal it will
generally be quite good as an adult. A foal should not stand with the
toes perfectly straight forward because as it grows and gets more breadth
in the chest it will tend to make that foal become pidgeon toed as an adult.
So some slight turning out of the whole leg (not just one part which would
be crookedness) is allowable, but not much, again look to the sire and
dam, if one of them turns out chances are the foal will, many horses turn
out in one foot but not the other and even that can be inherited. Look for
a long hip and a strong back, powerful movement, etc. The neck of most
foals is very hard to judge, it can get long and slim at some times and
be short and fat at others. What you look for in the neck is that the
attachment be very high up so that the neck runs smoothly into the withers,
and also look for a wide base of attachment at the shoulder but that base
should attach slightly higher than the point of the shoulder. Look also
for a clean but not excessively clean throatlatch (excessively clean
throatlatches are usually artificial caused by sweating rather than natural).
Very thick throats should be avoided especially in a colt (because they
tend to get thicker as they mature. Look for a pleasing shape to the neck,
a very slight hint of an arch, but don't expect too much arch. Look for
width between the branches of the jaw sufficient that the windpipe is
not impinged on when the head is flexed. I prefer wider chests to narrower
ones (there are lots of arguments as to which are better some people like
narrow horses, I'm not one of them this is a preference) The chest is
hard to judge because it is one of the last things to mature (usually
after age 3 or 4). So look for an upside V of muscle between the forelegs,
that shows that the foal has good enough width to have good muscle for
foreleg movement. Look for good withers, but do not sacrifice other things
for them. Withers are generally low in many Arab lines, this does not
disqualify a good horse but it does make it more difficult to hold a saddle
in place. The problem is that most foals haven't got anything resembling
withers until they are at least a year old so withers are very hard to
judge. Feet should be very evenly shaped and large, club feet are no longer
thought to be so much a genetic problem as a growth and/or pain related problem,
however if you are judging a group of foals and see either a lot of club
feet or a lack of them you can get some information about the tendency
toward the problem from that. Now to genetic things, laminitis is now
thought to have a genetic component just as is navicular disease, if a horse
has more than one offspring who has foundered it may signify that this
line is more prone to that problem than others. Malignant melanomas
same thing. (Benign melanomas are less important.) Epiphysitis same thing.
Osteochondrosis same thing. And finally look for good bone in the stallion
and his offspring.
In general, quality shows, if you research the lines you will see
that certain traits are inherited over and over while others are not. A
good stallion will stamp his offspring with a look that can identify them,
with a positive impression of a good horse, to a knowledgable person. Other
stallions will stamp their offspring negatively or not at all.
Good hunting.
Tracy and everybody
Misty Mountain Arabian Sport Horses
Tucson, AZ
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:27:22 -0600
From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
Organization: Manuel LaBoure Ranch
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Subject: Stumbling
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Does anyone have problems with their horse stumbling, no matter the
angle of the hoof? If so, what is the solution?
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:23:38 -0600
To: fourhorn@fea.net, Ridecamp Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: To Be Or Not To Be...
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Lauren,
I will reply a longer letter to you privately. Everyone on ridecamp has
heard my stories ad nauseum!
Briefly, it depends on the horse andthe problems you are having. I sold a
horse last year that was dangerous and beyond my capabilities to deal with.
I replaced him with a horse that needed some work and fine tuning, but has
been coming along nicely.
Here's how I determined the difference between giving up and perservering.
Is the horse generally getting better, even in small increments? The appy I
sold just got worse as time went on. He had a serious attitude problem and
simply did not like it here, even though all our horses know only kind and
gentle treatment and a good life. I think somtimes there are personality
conflicts between horse and rider and those may not be someting we can
overcome.
On the other hand, Star had some problems, but continues to get better and
better. I bought him a year ago, did some competing on him last year and
had an exciting, but successful season. Thsi year should be even better for
us as we continue to learn about each other and strengthen our bond.
Have you worked with a trainer? I called a local trainer whom I heard was
very good with horses. She helped me and Star through our initial rough
spots and was available for help over the phone if I had a problem I didn't
know how to handle. It cost $150 for her to work with Star and me for 10
days and it was money very well spent.
Good luck.
chris paus & star
At 10:22 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Lauren Horn wrote:
>I am having a hard time with my horse right now. We are going through
>some problems and I keep thinking, " Will she make a good endurance
>horse or not?"
>
>I would like to hear any success stories and not so successful stories
>of horses and prospects and hard work, training, therapy etc...Did you
>eventually give up on your horse after a lot of hard work?...or...Did
>your horse turn into a wonderful endurance horse after thinking they
>would never cut it?
>
>Lauren
>
>
>
ent-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Lauren,
I will reply a longer letter to you privately. Everyone on ridecamp has
heard my stories ad nauseum!
Briefly, it depends on the horse andthe problems you are having. I sold a
horse last year that was dangero6166 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003056 06461645330 0013117 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from onramp.micoks.net (onramp.micoks.net [209.153.98.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA04382 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 05:34:10 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:33:13 -0600
To: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Stumbling
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YES. Star was a champion stumbler. I had him checked by the vet,had
chiropractic work done on him, worried about navicular. But as he and I
ride more and more, his stumbling has become less and less. The farrier has
shortened Star's toes in back, mostly because he overreaches a lot, but you
have to be careful with that or you can end up changing the horse;'s gait.
After watching Star closely, the farrier decided he was mostly lazy and not
picking up his feet.
After a year of riding him, he rarely stumbles now. When he does, it is
usually a sign that he needs his hooves trimmed.
chris paus
At 06:27 AM 1/22/98 -0600, Bob & Amber Roberts wrote:
>Does anyone have problems with their horse stumbling, no matter the
>angle of the hoof? If so, what is the solution?
>
>
>
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:19:04 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801221419.GAA06763@fsr.com>
Subject: Trainer "bashing"
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Polly
Email: goodtimes2@hotmail.com
Hello,
I was doing a search for information on PNH training...and found a message about a Parelli "grad" who abused a woman's horse.
I'm not siding with any side--except that of the horse.
I wasn't there--so I don't know FOR SURE what happened...but I wanted to include my 2 cents worth.
ANTI-Deb the trainer people: Were you there at the clinic when this woman used the carrot stick on the horses face? Probably not. Have you ever been bitten by a horse? probably not. I have. And it hurts. I have a young gelding who used to play the biting game...and a few smacks to his nose took care of it. He's NOT headshy...CONSTANT head abuse will create a headshy horse...
Also, ANTI-Deb the trainer people: Do you send your kids to the sitters without references? Do you just ASSUME (makes and ASS out of U and ME, by the way) that your kids are being taken care of properly just because someone SAYS they are? I THINK NOT. And if you do, you're stupid. Prior to "dropping" my horse off, I would have written up feed information, medical information, emergency information, AND I would have made unannounced visits to the barn to be sure my horse was taken care of. YOUR negligence caused your horse's suffering...you've nobody to blame but yourself.
PRO Deb the trainer people: I DO think that Deb should have acted in a more PROFESSIONAL manner...since that is what she claims to be. Being a "cowboy" to the bone is NO excuse for being rude and insensitive. Deb must keep in mind that she is in business because of people who send her their horses...kind of like the baseball player who won't sign baseballs for little kids...who eventually grow up into PAYING adults...get what I'm saying here????? REGARDLESS of what was being said to her, REGARDLESS of the accusatory tone that may have been dished to her...she should have remained diplomatic and LISTENED before getting into an argument. She should take responsiblity for HER actions AND those of her employees--otherwise, she may be looking for work in another field. Burning bridges isn't a wise thing to do.
Sorry for the length of this, but I wanted to make my points clear.
P.S. I certainly hope that ALL parties involved have taken an HONEST look at what THEY did to cause a poor animal pain.....makes one wonder who the REAL animals are....
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:25:27 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Wasn't this very incident hash and rehashed on here last year? Check
the archives, seems pointless to bring it up again.
tracy
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From: HELFTER 77 <HELFTER77@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1cd76759.34c75a0a@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:39:04 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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Sources of Foods
For those who did not read past "sugar is bad for horses" I am re-posting the
remains of that paragraph and the following paragraph for reiteration.
Please keep in mind that poor quality grains are hidden in sweet feeds. This
is a fact. The feed industry has a bad habit of using our animals as garbage
disposals. Sweet and pelleted feeds are great for covering up that garbage.
>>Sugar is as bad for horses as it is for any other species, and horses may
exhibit mood swings similarly seen in humans. Time and time again horses calm
rapidly after molasses-sweetened feeds are removed from the diet. Molasses
also contains chemical preservatives or surfactants. Preservatives to reduce
spoilage in the heat of the summer and surfactants such as propylene glycol to
reduce congelation in the chill of the winter. Molasses and its baggage bring
inconsistencies that we like to avoid.
Pelleted feeds are used as alternatives to sweet feeds and do not cause the
increase in blood sugar that is associated with feeding molasses coated
grains. However, pelleted feeds bring forth other concerns. One, poor-quality
grains are easily disguised in pellet form and two, many pellet binders are
chemically based. The major concern lies in the quality of the grains. Grain
sources are where a number of amino acids and natural occurring trace minerals
are retrieved. With the methods of pelleting, even if the quality of the
grains are good to begin with, many of the nutrients are lost in processing.
The philosophy behind a good quality feed is to make sure you see what you are
getting. <<
Kendra Helfter Lax
Advanced Biological Concepts
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Need Advice About Tack
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:44:37 -0500
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I would like some input from people who know about or have tried the
following pieces of tack:
I need new stirrups. I am interested in something like the EZ Ride or
Cloud stirrups. I've tried just about everything but these two. Could you
all please fill me in on what you might know about the pros and cons of
either of these. I have 1-inch stirrup leathers.
Also, has anyone tried the vosal hackamore (V-shaped) that is sold by
Sportack? Do you have good brakes in case of emergency with it? What else
has been your experience? I use a mechanical hackamore right now that's
wonderful, but it seems the vosal would permit easier eating from buckets.
I'd appreciate some feedback. My Christmas money is burning a hole in my
pocket.
Thanks, Lori Sumrall.
sumralls@gateway.net
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 07:31:06 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stumbling
REPLY TO 01/22/98 05:02 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Stumbling
[71527] THU 01/22/98 05:02 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Stumbling; 23 LINES
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:27:22 -0600
From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Stumbling
Does anyone have problems with their horse stumbling, no matter the
angle of the hoof? If so, what is the solution?
---------
Yes, I had a foxtrotter that stumbled and tripped no matter what we
did with the angles of the hoof. Going up a very steep and gullied
trail (that I went up all the time with the Arab), she fell to her
knees, flinging me onto my nose. After trying everything, I sold
her. It was not worth the risk to my life of it happening again.
I had seen and ridden too many sure-footed-mountain-goat type horses
to waste anymore time on one that wasn't! It just could be that she
did better on relatively flat terrain, as opposed to our steep and
rocky trails.
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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From: "Suzanne J. Griffin" <FIT-TO-RUB@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Kathy Myers'" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Belly Lifts
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:29:20 -0800
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Kat,
Just a FYI...being sensitive or ticklish is OFTEN a sign that soft tissue
work needs to be done, in all walks of life be it two or four legged. It
is the body's way of saying, ooh I hurt there! So explore these areas of
your horse very slowly and with gentle pressure.
susie
-----Original Message-----
From: Kathy Myers [SMTP:kathy@nvolve.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 2:49 PM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
Lucy wrote:
>When I got home, I
>dutifully tried it on Mouse, and she totally ignored me.
Just this morning I was brushing Magnum horse untied
in his paddock . He thinks I always carry carrots in
my jacket pockets. Without moving his feet he had
stretched his head all the way around to his hip and
upside down... snif-snuf-snuf... looking as cute as
equinely possible. His neck went Pop-pop! Just like
a chiropractor. :) Make sure to brush both sides.
For the belly lift I have used a hoof pick. Plus
you gotta find just the right spot. Kinda hollow
area. Start with a gentle poke. Personally,
Magnum doesn't like this as much and will eventually
pin his ears, stomp a foot, and try to ignore me.
He's sensitive and ticklish though so it's tough.
The thing is, there must be 5 acres of belly under
there!
The other stretch that really helps the back
and topline is the carrot just off the ground
between the front pasturns. If you can get his
eyes between his front legs and back legs...
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
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Message-Id: <199801221540.HAA11409@fsr.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 07:38:46 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
REPLY TO 01/22/98 00:54 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: wide gait in hind end
[71523] THU 01/22/98 00:54 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: wide gait in hind end;
38 LINES
From: Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:45:46 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: wide gait in hind end
The discussion of gaits got me thinking of a recently published book called
"The Nature of Horses," by Stephen Budiansky. In a section on the mechanics of
movement, the author says, "a medium trot is more energy efficient than a fast
walk, and a medium canter is more energy efficient than a fast trot." He says
that each gait has an optimal speed, which horses naturally tend to favor.
"When traveling a these optimal speeds, the energy required to move a given
distance is the same whether at the walk, trot, or gallop."
In a way this makes sense, and yet, the implication is that a canter (at the
optimal speed) could be an energy efficient gait. But surely the trot is the
gait of choice for endurance?
* don't happen to agree with this. I think the best scenario is to
mix the gaits, or let the horse choose (assuming you have a
well-conditioned horse you trust.) I have always read that the
canter is efficient becuase the motion assists the horse in
breathing. Gosh, I have been to rides where the top ten horses just
about cantered the whole ride.
*It also really depends on the horse. Some are trotting fools, and
some, like my friends little ARab/appy, can get into very slow,
relaxed canter and go for miles and miles, with a LOWER heart rate
than if she was trotting.
In reality, is the trot more energy efficient
than the canter, at least for distances? Is it preferred because it can be
sustained for a longer period of time?
*Again, this depends on the horse.
Karen
(Then there are the horses like my husband's appy, who cantered for the first
half of the 25-mile Twenty Mule Team Ride several years ago, but came into the
vet check in excellent shape. [Shame on these people with out-of-control
horses!])
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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From: "Bonnie & Mike" <mpirtle@wf.net>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: stumbling
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:44:26 -0600
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I've been riding Foxtrotters for 14 years, for field trials and pleasure.
Some stumble, some don't. The problem is worse if they're pacey. I can
usually correct the problem if I keep the horse collected and don't let him
get lazy on me.
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From: "Suzanne J. Griffin" <FIT-TO-RUB@worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Lucy C Trumbull'" <elsie@calweb.com>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Belly Lifts
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:36:15 -0800
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Lucy,
Your horse's head and neck flexibility doesn't necessarily mean there isn't
any spasms in her back or gluteal (butt) muscles. The only way to find out
about these is to palpate (feel). Abdominal strength like the rest of the
muscles come with conditioning. Play around with different pressure depths
and with different pressure widths (hand, fingers, one finger, like Kat
suggested..hoof pick, etc) Try "sandwiching" your hands on her...one on
her back and one directly underneath on her belly (my guy is easy to do
this one because he is only 14 1 1/2 ! ) The main thing is is to get to
know how she reacts to the pressure of your hands.
Susie & James
-----Original Message-----
From: Lucy C Trumbull [SMTP:elsie@calweb.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 1:47 PM
To: fourhorn@fea.net
Cc: ridecamp
Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
> Or - Your horses back is so stiff that she physically can't lift her
> back.
I don't know, but I suspect not.
She's very bendy side to side (for instance, I regularly
see her scratching itches on her rear leg by bending her
head around to it. She'll also turn her hear around to my
foot when I'm riding her).
I know side to side movement is different to up and down - but
I don't think of her as being a stiff horse. She's 5 and we've
only just started riding lightly, if that's any help.
Could it be she just hasn't figured out what I want? Or
that her back muscles are too weak at this stage to be
able to lift it more than imperceptably.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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From: "Thomas, Barb" <thomas@amgen.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Cc: "'mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)'"
<mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)>,
"'aerc@foothill.net'"
<aerc@foothill.net>
Subject: Re: Eliminate Sanctioning of 2-day 100's and 3-day 150's (long an
d HOT!)
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 11:20:01 -0800
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I don't believe that AERC should stop sanctioning 2-day 100's and 3-day
150's. I can't see anything in Brad's discussion that would merit this
action. Perhaps AERC should look at how these rides are handled as far
as points are concerned. From Brad's discussion:
"* There is no way that riding a 2-Day 100 is the same as riding a
1-Day
100 - never has been, never will!"
I agree here. The strategy and challenge are completely different. But
this does not invalidate a 2-day 100 or 3-day 150. It just makes it a
different category of ride.
"* The Rider "Strategy" Myth: A rider will ride differently (in
strategic,
pacing terms) if they are going to enter a 2-Day 100 than two
consecutive
50's (50/50). BALONEY! Coming to the two day event, the rider will
always
choose between one of three options:
1. Not riding (for various reasons), but drinking (also for various
reasons);
2. Being "competitive" (Top 10, etc.) on Day One, and hopefully riding
on
Day Two if he/she has enough horse left, plus drinking;
3. Going for the mileage, and riding at a pace that they know they can
finish both days, unless that evil stone finds a foot somewhere along
the
trail, plus drinking;
So, which option will the rider choose if they want to enter both 50's?
#3.
Which option will they choose if they want to enter the 2-Day 100? #3."
My, my, we are stereotyping riders here aren't we!! First, just my
observation, but not all riders drink. Second, there are people who
choose option 2 (though usually foolishly), some who just go for the
enjoyment of the ride, and some who are strategic wonders with great
horses and are competitive every day of the ride (or rides), which
aren't even listed options. Plus, I'm sure there's many other ways to
do a ride not listed here.
"* The only reason they were instituted was for the ROC as qualifying
criteria. It is no secret that Susan does not actually require
completion
of "sanctioned" multiple-day events - she will accept completing any two
or
three days in a row."
I may be wrong, but I believe some of these rides existed before Susan
accepted them as qualifying criteria and they were not "instituted" as
ROC qualifiers. More like they existed, Susan considered them and found
that they were acceptable criteria. Anyway, what Susan accepts or
doesn't accept for qualifiers has nothing at all to do with sanctioning
by AERC and shouldn't enter into this discussion.
"* The "On-Going Myth Syndrome": Riders enter them because they
believe
that they are necessary for qualifying for some rides and so Ride
Managers
sanction them because they believe riders want them. Net result: The
first time a rider loses the 50 miles they completed the 1st day
because
they didn't finish the second day is the last time they enter a 2-Day
100,
AND they cost the Ride Manager more money for sanctioning, ride fees
(although not much here, because not many enter them - check the EN ride
results!), and awards."
Brad, maybe, just maybe riders enter these rides because they WANT TO!
I do agree that the entries, especially on 3-day 150's are on the low
side but that's no reason to drop sanctioning. Some rides in low
population areas have few entries, should we drop them, too? I
completely disagree that riders who get pulled after day 1 or don't
finish the second day don't come back. At Fort Valley, year after year
people come back to face the challenge again. Please, give us riders a
little more credit than to imply that we are poor losers because we get
pulled during a ride. It doesn't matter if you get pulled from a 2 or 3
day ride or a 1 day ride, it still hurts, but we keep coming back for
more. It's in our blood. As far as the "additional costs", if ride
management wants to put out a bit more for a ride, that's their
business, not AERC's.
"* Finally, the rules still would need a change if we continue to
sanction
them. Rule 5.2 states that you have 12 hours to complete a 50, and 24
hours to complete a 100. If you have entered a 2-Day 100, you should
have
24 hours of "total competition time"; if you complete Day 1 in 8 hours,
that should leave you with 16 for Day 2. However, the Rule is not clear
on
this, and because you are only riding 50 miles each day, some, but
certainly not all, think you should have only 12 hours per day within
which
you must complete."
This does pose a very interesting question that should addressed. If
the nights are considered a "gate into a hold" it does seem to make
sense that the team still has the remainder of their 24 (or 36) hours on
the clock. From a ride management aspect, this may pose other problems.
This is something to discuss and settle.
There are issues you stated that I don't feel qualified to address,
especially points in detail, Pioneer Events, and award programs. Maybe
someone more versed in these areas should take this up.
When you ride multiple day 50's, you have the option of not riding on a
given day without loss of the other day's mileage, which is an
advantage. But the challenge of a 2-day or 3-day ride is getting you
and your horse through all the days successfully. Why should we
penalize riders who choose to take on this challenge by dropping the
sanctioning.
AERC members, let your Board know how you stand on this issue!! No
matter what the outcome, both sides need to be heard from and the
decision should come from the prevailing opinion of the membership.
That's why we belong to this organization!!
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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:14:00 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
Subject: endurance saddles - types
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Hi Kimberly, both Lindas and everyone else interested in endurance saddle
types. I'll run the risk of "cluttering the list" since I'm not able to
make it across the country to convention. I've written a sort of
"endurance-saddles-for-dummies" book:
"Choosing a saddle for endurance and long distance riding" (available from
Filaree Press, PO Box 1361, Carmel Valley CA 93924 for $10.)
Since endurance saddles usually have to be bought by mail order, sight
unseen, I wrote the book to give the reader/rider information to help
analyze which type of saddle is going to be best for them and their horse.
I include some history of saddles and riding: why english and western
saddles are different, where and how sidebar and semi treeless saddles came
to be; a description of the 4 types of saddle underpinnings (the part for
the horse): panel/english, skirted/western, sidebar and semi treeless. I
discuss how the saddle should fit the rider too. I also include tips on
being a good shopper because "the hunt" for the perfect saddle is hard
enough, saddles are too expensive and our horses backs too precious to risk
making a poor choice out of ignorance.
For more info email me privately. Happy trails, Laney
PS I will be at the west region tradeshow, March 14th.
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Message-ID: <34C76B9D.7D45@tdsi.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:54:05 -0600
From: Ruth Bourgeois <ruthb@tdsi.net>
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To: &endurance group <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Stumbling
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Bob & Amber Roberts wrote:
>
> Does anyone have problems with their horse stumbling, no matter the
> angle of the hoof? If so, what is the solution?
My mare had a chronic problem with stumbling. She's built very solid and
wide in front. When I first started training her and riding her, I
followed some basic TTEAM practices, using a Lindell sidepull (actually
I started riding her in a halter, then graduated to a sidepull when we
went out on the road). She was easy to handle and responded well using
this. But, after a couple years of riding, she started stumbling
frequently. I did all the usual - got a better farrier, took her to the
vet college for x-rays and soundness checks, they even evaluated her
coordination by doing things like spinning her in circles then trotting
out straightaway, or spinning her around and then having her step up and
down a curb. She never stumbled once for them and they said she was very
sound and well coordinated. So why did she keep stumbling with me riding
her? I then started working her in a snaffle bit and doing basic
dressage work. That helped a lot, but she still stumbled at times.
Finally, I had a very good trainer ride her a few times. It seems that
the problem was that she was a bit heavy on the forehand to start with,
partly due to her conformation, then by using a sidepull on her for
riding, she never learned to shift her balance back off her forehand,
which led to stumbling. In the years I'd ridden her, I'd "taught" her to
stumble very well! This trainer rode her just a few times, switching her
to a French snaffle bit that she liked better, and taught her
self-carriage, something that I had never been able to do successfully,
despite the dressage work. He was, simply, a far more advanced rider,
one who could ride a horse well without interfering at all with the
horse's movement, and thus, enabled my horse to get a feeling of
self-carriage and balance. Once that was established, the stumbling
problem disappeared. It sounds so simple, but it's true. Some horses
just don't have good self-carriage and will repeatedly stumble for
seemingly no logical reason.
Ruth
8 10:02:13 -0600
Message-ID: <34C76B9D.7D45@tdsi.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:54:05 -0600
From: Ruth Bourgeois <ruthb@tdsi.net>
Reply-To: ruthb@tdsi.net
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:15:29 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801221615.IAA15399@fsr.com>
Subject: Outdated
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Polly
Email: goodtimes2@hotmail.com
Obviously I didn't post my last message to the "correct" board...it obviously didn't reach the right audience based on an e-mail I received.
Forgive my ignorance...and well, for just being human.
You won't hear from me again.
"Slander"....P L E A S E....get a life.
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:12:14 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Cc: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
In-Reply-To: <34C61F47.237C228A@chron.com>
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>i recently received a mailing for a ride where they were priced as
>follows:
>
>25 mile $55
>
>50 mile $75
>
>75 mile $100
>
>i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked to
>pay more than their fair share. if you calculate it on a per-mile basis,
>the 25s are $2.20 a mile, whereas the 75s are only 1.30 a mile...almost
>double for the 25s..
This actually seems like a pretty fair charge to me. It really does cost
as much to put a 25 out on the trail as it does a 50. You still have to
pay for your basecamp, for your vets, your supplies, portapotties, horse
hay, food for the riders, food for the voluneers, awards. Insurance costs
the same regardless of what distance the riders are going. Postage and
mailings costs are the same, as are the fees you may have to pay to BLM per
rider (or another entity to use the land), and AERC. Rides still need to
have equipment such as water troughs, stethoscopes, clipboards, clocks, a
water truck maybe...that costs the same regardless. It costs the same to
make up the maps, ride packets and all of the other items that go along
with putting on a ride. The only real difference is that maybe the LD's
don't have as many vet checks, but the vets usually charge a fee per day,
not by how many horses they have to vet.
I used to complain about the costs of entry fees too. Then I helped put on
a ride, and boy was that an eye-opener!! I won't ever complain again. ;^)
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Dream Weaver
& Rocky
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Fw: To Be Or Not To Be...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:15:47 -0700
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-----Original Message-----
From: Craig W. Hadley <willard@eagleut.com>
To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: To Be Or Not To Be...
>Chris & Lauren,
> My problem is that my horse has so much energy and what seems to be a
>bottomless pit of high spirits that I'm not sure if I can channel all of it
>into a productive career. We ride quite a bit and have also taken dressage
>lessons. He is a perfect gentleman during the lessons and my teacher can't
>understand what I am griping about. We also ride at the local fairgrounds
>during open riding and usually have twenty different horses going that many
>directions around us. He is slowly learning that just because a horse
races
>past us-that it doesn't mean that we are in a race too. He can outwalk
most
>of the horses of people that I ride with and we usually ride circles around
>them to stay with them. He still likes to be in front the best or will
>prance and act stupid. Anyway, back to the point. He is full of himself
>and full of energy but hasn't been mean about it. If he was mean, I would
>be sure that he was the wrong horse for me. Like Chris states-Is he
getting
>better or worse. Well, sometimes it seems like we take two steps back
>before a tiny step forward. I guess as long as there is still progress it
>is worth persevering . If I felt the horse was a danger to me or my
family,
>I would place him immediately.
>Carrie & Buddy(go go go)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
>To: fourhorn@fea.net <fourhorn@fea.net>; Ridecamp Endurance
><ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 8:01 AM
>Subject: Re: To Be Or Not To Be...
>
>
>>Lauren,
>>
>>I will reply a longer letter to you privately. Everyone on ridecamp has
>>heard my stories ad nauseum!
>>
>>Briefly, it depends on the horse andthe problems you are having. I sold a
>>horse last year that was dangerous and beyond my capabilities to deal with
.
>>I replaced him with a horse that needed some work and fine tuning, but has
>>been coming along nicely.
>>
>>Here's how I determined the difference between giving up and perservering.
>>Is the horse generally getting better, even in small increments? The appy
I
>>sold just got worse as time went on. He had a serious attitude problem and
>>simply did not like it here, even though all our horses know only kind and
>>gentle treatment and a good life. I think somtimes there are personality
>>conflicts between horse and rider and those may not be someting we can
>>overcome.
>>
>>On the other hand, Star had some problems, but continues to get better and
>>better. I bought him a year ago, did some competing on him last year and
>>had an exciting, but successful season. Thsi year should be even better
for
>>us as we continue to learn about each other and strengthen our bond.
>>
>>Have you worked with a trainer? I called a local trainer whom I heard was
>>very good with horses. She helped me and Star through our initial rough
>>spots and was available for help over the phone if I had a problem I
didn't
>>know how to handle. It cost $150 for her to work with Star and me for 10
>>days and it was money very well spent.
>>
>>Good luck.
>>
>>chris paus & star
>>
>>At 10:22 PM 1/21/98 -0800, Lauren Horn wrote:
>>>I am having a hard time with my horse right now. We are going through
>>>some problems and I keep thinking, " Will she make a good endurance
>>>horse or not?"
>>>
>>>I would like to hear any success stories and not so successful stories
>>>of horses and prospects and hard work, training, therapy etc...Did you
>>>eventually give up on your horse after a lot of hard work?...or...Did
>>>your horse turn into a wonderful endurance horse after thinking they
>>>would never cut it?
>>>
>>>Lauren
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Fw: To Be Or Not To Be...
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:15:47 -0700
Message-ID: <06182 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003027 06461671040 0013110 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from rhesus.tpc.tulane.edu (rhesus.tpc.tulane.edu [129.81.172.17]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA16705 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:21:46 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:26:40 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: charle@tpc.tulane.edu (Charlene Bartholomae)
Subject: is this fair
I have to agree with Glenda on this one. I think what I pay for 25
milers in
MS, TX, and Tenn is absolutely fair. Check out what it costs to attend a
NATRC ride.
They seem to be a lot higher to me.....
I guess for me I figure I get just as much enjoyment from doing a 25
as I will
if I EVER get to do a 50..... :*)))
,
/,`\
` | \____\\
_( ) \ Charlene Bartholomae
\-\~~~_|\ \ Department of Pathology
` \ ` \ ` Tulane Regional Primate Research Center
18703 Three Rivers Road.
` ` Covington, Louisiana 70433
e-mail: charle@tpc.tulane.edu
home e mail: ccrydr@i-55.com
work phone (504)892-2040 Ext.243
home phone (504)748-4377
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:21:52 -0800
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jessica Tuteur <jessicat@napanet.net>
Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
> The really great benefit of doing the stretching exercises is that
>when you are riding your horse at a ride, you can not only feed them treats
>from their back (without having to lean forward), but you can also dose
>them with electrolytes! <g>
>
Just a word of caution. I used to always feed my mare from in the saddle
until one day at a ride she inadvertantly took my finger along with the
treat and just about pulled me out of the saddle. That really hurt so be
careful!
Jessica
>
*****************************************************************
Jessica Tuteur, Ride Manager Wine Country 50 6/6/98
J-M Ranch & HorseBums
1393 Green Valley Rd.
Napa, CA 94558
(707) 258-1937 tel & fax
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Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:30:44 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:24:54 -0800
To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: DreamWeaver <karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us>
Subject: One day 100's v. 2-day rides
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <199801220624.WAA17831@fsr.com>
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>Ask some of our vets who are well versed in the physiology of the horse >if
>a one day 100 is harder than a two day (try Matthew McKay Smith for one).
Hi Bob:
Okay, I'm really curious...I'd like to hear more. Are one day 100's harder
on a horse, or is a 2-day 100? I know, obviously, that the ride itself has
something to do with it, but say you are comparing apples to apples...same
trail and conditions. What does everybody else think?
Thanks!!
Happy Trails,
Karen
in Gardnerville
& Dream Weaver
& Rocky
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: <sumralls@gateway.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:24:25 -0800
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I broke the one cardinal rule about endurance rides with EZ Ride stirrups.
I ended up with a friends pair in the back of my truck at an endurance ride
and she wasn't there so I used them...then I bought them. The are the most
comfortable things I've ever used!! Well worth the money!!
They are heavy and the hurt like hell if you hit yourself in the head with
them though!!! (don't ask!)
dorothy & elly
taylorsville
----------
> From: sumralls <sumralls@gateway.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Need Advice About Tack
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 6:44 AM
>
> I would like some input from people who know about or have tried the
> following pieces of tack:
> I need new stirrups. I am interested in something like the EZ Ride or
> Cloud stirrups. I've tried just about everything but these two. Could
you
> all please fill me in on what you might know about the pros and cons of
> either of these. I have 1-inch stirrup leathers.
> Also, has anyone tried the vosal hackamore (V-shaped) that is sold by
> Sportack? Do you have good brakes in case of emergency with it? What
else
> has been your experience? I use a mechanical hackamore right now that's
> wonderful, but it seems the vosal would permit easier eating from
buckets.
> I'd appreciate some feedback. My Christmas money is burning a hole in
my
> pocket.
> Thanks, Lori Sumrall.
>
> sumralls@gateway.net
>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: dirty gray horses
Message-ID: <19980122.113838.5247.3.esppatty@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.38
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty Lambert)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:38:19 EST
I just had a thought - maybe it's way off base, but reading about this
gray horse who is always dirtying himself, I remembered I once had an all
black horse who was the dirtiest I've ever seen & now have a spotted
horse who is very clean. Could the rolling in dirt have something to do
with the horse wanting to camouflage itself? Like maybe this goes way
back to his "caveman" ancestors??
Patty Lambert
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: hiking boots
Message-ID: <19980122.113838.5247.6.esppatty@juno.com>
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty Lambert)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:38:19 EST
Glenda,
Yes, hiking boots are wonderful, especially if you need ankle support. I
learned the hard way: was running with my horse in the first part of the
OD 50 & turned an ankle, broke a bone in my foot (finished the ride
though, thanks to the vet's "wonderful* taping job at McCoys, plus quite
a few naproxen - just had to learn to dismount landing on one foot and
my crew did all the trot-outs!) So be sure to get a pair of boot with
uppers that are rigid enough & high enough - Vasque makes wonderful
boots. Oh yes, and get them big enough that you can put some nice cushy
orthotics inside. Good luck.
Patty Lambert
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Message-ID: <34C7783A.1FA1@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:47:54 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
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Subject: Trainer Bashing Reply...
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Hey, folks,
Polly from goodtimes2@hotmail.com wrote:
>To finish, I think those who ride endurance are as abusive as Liz
>claimed Deb to be. How's THAT for "flame bait".
> Have a wonderful day (seriously :^) )
Polly posted this back to me as part of a reply about the professional
trainer. My strong suspicion is that there is hope to start a "war"
here. PLEASE, let's keep on the topic of endurance!
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801221649.JAA14974@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Dogs in camp
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 9:49:05 MST
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2]
I have a dog. I love dogs. I used to take my dog on my back road
training rides. But I do not like dogs at base camp.
*IF* everyone would keep their dogs confined to their own camping
spot, and the dog kept quiet, and the dog didn't lunge at the horses
that walked by. Then it would be alright for people to have their
dogs in camp. Unfortunately, there have always been a few people
at the camps I've been to who seem to think that the dogs should be
allowed to wander where ever they want, get into what ever they
want, and interact with the horses how ever they want. As a result,
even the good owners get blamed. Thus, I do not think that dogs,
even the good ones with good owners, should be allowed at camp.
I also think the same holds true for children. At a ride last
year, a child who should have known better, was riding her bike
along the road where all the horses had to walk. She would ride
the bike behind the horses, along side the horses, and even
into the area where the vets were trying to check pulse rates on
horses. Once she interfered with a horse being trotted out during
the vet check. I told her once to keep her bike away from the
area, but she ignored me. I asked one of the ride volunteers to
get her out of there, but that didn't seem to do much good either.
This was almost as bad as the family that came to a ride, parked
next to my horses, and then proceeded to take their dirt bikes off
the back of the truck.
Now I know that absolutely no one on ridecamp would even consider
having undisciplined dogs, children, or anything else. But I really
wish some people out there would get a clue.
*rant off*
--
Wendy
\|/
/\ -O-
/**\ /|\
/****\ /\
/ \ /**\ Here there be dragons
/ /\ / \ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\/\/\ /\
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/ / \/ /\ \ / \ \ / \/ / / \/ \/ \ / \ \
/ / \/ \/\ \ / \ / / \
__/__/_______/___/__\___\__________________________________________________
Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
Hewlett-Packard Company e-mail: wendy@fc.hp.com
Mail Stop A2-5UB3 Telnet: 229-2182 (898-2182 as of Nov 1.)
3404 E. Harmony Rd. AT&T: (970) 229-2182 (898-2182)
Fort Collins, CO, 80528-9599 FAX: (970) 229-2038 (898-2038)
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Message-ID: <34C7794D.3AD5@earthlink.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:52:29 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
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To: Dorothy Beebe <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
References: <19980122164319696.AAA281.286@pcda>
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Dorothy Beebe wrote:
>EZ Ride stirrups. The are the most
>comfortable things I've ever used!! Well worth the money!!
> They are heavy and the hurt like hell if you hit yourself in the head with
> them though!!! (don't ask!)
I had to smile when I read that. I've been swatted by my own stirrups,
too. Worse yet, My husband swatted me with his as he was tacking up
along side my horse. I thought that you needed the helmet once on
board, not while tacking up. :)
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:58:03 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
Reply-To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
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To: Patty Lambert <esppatty@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: dirty gray horses
References: <19980122.113838.5247.3.esppatty@juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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Patty Lambert wrote:
>Could the rolling in dirt have something to do
> with the horse wanting to camouflage itself? Like maybe this goes way
> back to his "caveman" ancestors??
Sounds good & quite likely, but I still like to believe that my gray is
just a pig. If there isn't a muddy spot, he'll paw and make one, then
roll so that he is covered everywhere. He's the only horse I know that
pushes off with his forehead for the flip over. He <always> has dirt
bewteen his eyes.
Linda Flemmer
the gray/bay/chestnut depending on the available camouflage
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801221659.JAA14984@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Smooth Trot
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 9:59:06 MST
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2]
Someone asked if certain factors, wide rear, high racking, etc.,
affect the smoothness of the trot. Or whether or not it was
conformation determined.
*Soap box mode on*
Dressage is good for you. Dressage is good for your horse.
A horse that does not use its body well, will typically have a
very rough trot. You can easily (well sort of easy) change
the rough trot into a smooth trot through training the horse to
use the back end, round the back, flex properly, and through
training yourself to ride better.
Just last night I was taking a lesson on one of my trainers ponies.
(This is really a weird feeling after only riding my big guys:-)
At first the pony's trot was very rough. Then I asked the pony
to "step up" into the trot, and to round her back, and to flex a bit
to the inside. Her trot became very smooth.
When I take Drake out, he tends to be a bit gangly at first. I'll
ask him to come together, and "magically" all his gaits are easier
to ride.
So, it's not the way the horse is put together, nor how high they
lift the legs. It is how they carry themselves that will determine
how smooth the trot is.
*Soap box mode off*
--
Wendy
\|/
/\ -O-
/**\ /|\
/****\ /\
/ \ /**\ Here there be dragons
/ /\ / \ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\/\/\ /\
/ / \ / \ / \/\/ \/ \ /\/ \/\ /\ /\/ / / \/ \
/ / \/ /\ \ / \ \ / \/ / / \/ \/ \ / \ \
/ / \/ \/\ \ / \ / / \
__/__/_______/___/__\___\__________________________________________________
Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
Hewlett-Packard Company e-mail: wendy@fc.hp.com
Mail Stop A2-5UB3 Telnet: 229-2182 (898-2182 as of Nov 1.)
3404 E. Harmony Rd. AT&T: (970) 229-2182 (898-2182)
Fort Collins, CO, 80528-9599 FAX: (970) 229-2038 (898-2038)
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:00:37 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
CC: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
References: <34C61F47.237C228A@chron.com> <34C6233D.22A0@earthlink.net>
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> Cyndi Craig wrote:
> > i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked to
> > pay more than their fair share.
Linda Flemmer wrote:
> Not everyone wants to or can do 50's or 100's. It is a personal
> choice. I was at a ride a couple of years ago where the 50 milers were
> told that they were "riding half a ride" - talk about insulting! We
> shrugged it off, but it still brings back bad memories.
LD riders get told all the time that they're only riding half a ride, or
worse. I don't have a problem paying close to the same costs as the
50's or 100's, because as Linda pointed out, most of the fixed costs are
the same, but I do wish (some) RMs would not treat the LD riders as poor
cousins. I went to a ride last year where the LD completion awards were
the dirty, ripped leftovers from previous years 50's (stuff nobody
wanted, it really was trash). There WAS a box of nice new T-shirts, but
the LDs were told in no uncertain terms those were for the "real"
riders. (That's a quote.) Why couldn't the RM have ordered enough
shirts for EVERYONE, and not used the LD riders as a convenient disposal
system? Also, when I asked why the LD wasn't AERC sanctioned, I got
sneered at (and I DO have a reasonably thick skin). Well, if anyone is
riding for the incredibly valuable completion awards you get in ANY
division, you're in for a disappointment, but I really didn't care for
the attitude that LD riders were just an annoyance to be gotten rid of.
At this ride, too, I think my entry fee was only a few bucks less than
the fifties. As a result, if I can only get to one ride this spring,
I'm not going to go to the ride where we felt lucky to be allowed to eat
dinner in the same building as the 50's and 100's---I'm gonna go to the
ride down south (one of Terry's, may she live forever), where they do
make LDs feel welcome and I have alot more fun. So Terry gets my money,
not the other ride, period.
This is not to sound whiney, or start off the old discussions again
about how LD riders are as good as anyone else, I'm just making this
point---it seems to me that the LD division is making up a larger and
larger proportion of the starting pack. LD money spends as good as
anyone's, and alot of LDs riders are happy to stay LD riders forever for
whatever reason. If RMs made the LD riders feel like they were welcome
and had Accomplished Something that day, they're going to get happier
riders, more repeat business and everyone makes out. AND the LDs
wouldn't feel abused because they pay almost as much as a fifty or 100.
Just seems like good business to me.
OK, I'm off my soapbox now. :-D
Susan Garlinghouse
than their fair share.
Linda Flemmer wrote:
> Not everyone wants to or can do 50's or 100's. It is a personal
> choice. I was at a ride a couple of years ago where the 50 milers were
> told that they were "riding half a ride" - talk about insulting! We
> shrugged it off, but it still brings back bad memories.
LD riders get told all the time that they're only riding half a ride, or
worse. I don't have a problem paying close to the same costs as the
50's or 100's, because as Linda pointed6194 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002367 06461676702 0013133 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from nt1.factory.net (nt1.factory.net [204.162.114.84]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA23008 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:11:23 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:08:41 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Dirty grey Horses
OK, this is what you do. Get some of that wide
artist's tape. A whole roll. Wash + dry grey horse.
Take roll of tape and run a strip down the right
side of grey horse from the point of shoulder to
the point of hip. Run a second strip right under
the first one. Repeat until you have about
a foot wide strip covered on the right side of
horse. Go around to the otherside. Repeat from
the left shoulder to hip. Make sure covered
areas are fairly even.
Turn out horse as normal.
Come back next day.
Remove Tape.
LOOK!! RACING STRIPES!!!
:) :) :) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7d085595.34c77d7b@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:10:14 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Fwd: Black Horse
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In a message dated 98-01-22 12:06:49 EST, SandyDSA writes:
<< Hi gang - two of my 4Hers have a need for a photo of a black enduranc
ehorse on trial. Don't know why they picked black but there you are. if anyone
can email a jpeg I would really appreciate it. If you want to know what the
projetc is I would ba happy to share it with you. It involves a nutrition
writeup research project for their educational prject in 4H. Thanks!
sandy >>
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
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To: ridecamp@enruance.net
Subject: Black Horse
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:06:49 EST
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Hi gang - two of my 4Hers have a need for a photo of a black enduranc ehorse
on trial. Don't know why they picked black but there you are. if anyone can
email a jpeg I would really appreciate it. If you want to know what the
projetc is I would ba happy to share it with you. It involves a nutrition
writeup research project for their educational prject in 4H. Thanks!
sandy
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2f2a9f12.34c77b25@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:00:19 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
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In a message dated 98-01-22 03:58:17 EST, you write:
<< 25 milers aren't looked down upon by the organization
Yes they are in some circles - evidenced by the time it took to GET any kind
of goal/reward system for the LD system.
- in
fact they even have a distance program aimed at ltd distance events!
(It would take a HECK of a long time to reach the endurance mileage
program's award levels at 25 miles per ride!)
Not everyone wants to or can do 50's or 100's. It is a personal
choice. I was at a ride a couple of years ago where the 50 milers were
told that they were "riding half a ride" - talk about insulting! >>
Yes this is insulting and we hear it a lot - I always scratch my head thinking
- this is a 23 year old horse here. I consider her continued participation a
minor miracle. Of course, for many reasons, just as you said, not everyone can
prepare to comete in the 50s and 100s etc. Children and jobs come to mind. My
husband has stated, "what do these people do for a living that they can be at
all these events?" I am curious too. I think it does come down to priorities
and I feel that my daughters will be grown before I know it and so they do
come first. Only one likes horses at all so to drag the other along makes us
both miserable. I don't wnat to go to the mall with her either. We conpromise
at times, but I don't think that works well in preparing a horse for 50-100
miles. It does work for 25-35 miles. BUt to be demeaned for a chocie is
insulting. Frankly, all those folks I rode with and showed with and agaainst
in the past 2 decades couldn't ride even 20 miles without dying in the saddle,
so truly, even 25-35 miiles is admirable to the VAST majority. Respect where
respect is due would be a great motto - besides to finish is to win, which
doesn't specify distance. :)
san
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:17:39 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: sumralls@gateway.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
References: <199801211928.NAA15693@server3.wans.net.>
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sumralls wrote:
>
> Idea for nonstretching rope for a picket line: Try REI (Recreational
> Equipment, Inc.). They carry quite a selection of mountain climbing ropes.
> You know they are built not to stretch -- we hope!
Actually, REI is a good source for climbing rope, but climbing ropes DO
stretch. The leading ropes about 7-10%, although at least they stretch
like a rubber band, don't stretch and stay stretched. Maybe that's a
good thing if a horse tended to fight back against it. Some ropes do
stretch ALOT, thank God---imagine falling off a cliff you were climbing,
hitting the end of the rope twenty feet below and stopping dead without
any stretch at all. Good way to get hurt. So if you specifically want
a rope that does NOT stretch, ask for a rope with as little "impact
force elongation" as possible.
Another good source might be to ask about sources of used
ropes---climbing ropes come in 165' lengths and are not cheap, but if
someone was using it for climbing and it took a good fall or two, they
retire the rope (understandable considering the stakes if the rope
fails). Much, MUCH cheaper and still perfectly adequate for picket line
rope.
Just another .02
Susan
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:21:15 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: sumralls <sumralls@gateway.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
In-Reply-To: <199801221441.IAA28463@server3.wans.net.>
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> I need new stirrups. I am interested in something like the EZ Ride or
> Cloud stirrups. I've tried just about everything but these two. Could you
> all please fill me in on what you might know about the pros and cons of
> either of these. I have 1-inch stirrup leathers.
I have the EZ-Ride stirrups with safety cage, and I love them. They do
take a little getting used to, because they're so springy. You end up
with a little extra bounce when you post that you have to learn to
compensate for -- but it really helps in the comfort on long rides, helps
keep your toes from going numb.
You also need to get the horse used to them -- the first time I put my
saddle on Lakota with the new (HUGE) stirrups, he thought he was being
attacked by aliens on each flank so he pulled back and dumped the saddle
in the dust - "Whew! Close one" he said. <BG>
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re Need advice about tack
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:20:06 +0200
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Hi there
just to let you know i am using a vosal from sport tack(yep even here in
south Africa) am using the vosal on my young stallion who is just starting
his endurance career.He did not like the bit i was using so i decided to
use the Vosal with no problems at all,I use the vosal very gently,never use
it harshly you can really damage a horse that a way!He loves the Vosal and
responds very well on it,stopping ,no problems at all,he is still a baby
but really is doing well in the Vosal,wish there were tack shops here that
sold them!
anyway i really recommend using the vosal,on a endurance ride the horses
can eat and drink freely!
Hope this helps,it is a great piece of equipment!
regards
kathy
http://196.7.177.40/aht/
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:38:15 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Dorothy Beebe <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
cc: sumralls@gateway.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
In-Reply-To: <19980122164319696.AAA281.286@pcda>
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> They are heavy and the hurt like hell if you hit yourself in the head with
> them though!!! (don't ask!)
Boy, ain't that the truth! I hit myself in the knees with them all time,
carrying the saddle from tack room to horse ... and it HURTS! I've
learned a very interesting walk, with the saddle square in front of me,
knees bent, feet placed wide apart, stirrups swinging in the space
between my legs. :)
(And I have to ask, Dorothy, how did you hit yourself in the head with them?)
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re Pics of Rhino and my horses and my SA Endurance page
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:39:48 +0200
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Hi
Sorry to bother you all again,but i lost all my mail from yesterday and
this morning(fiddling with the computer again;-(
Those of you who wanted the pics please email me again and i will mail them
to you.
Also will be putting on pics of last weekends ride at Mclear here in the
Drakensburg mountains later tonight on my S>A Endurance Page.
Still updating the webpage all the time!Never realised its a hell of a
job:-)
tthanks
Kathy
http://196.7.177.40/aht/
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re Pics of Rhino and my horses and my SA Endurance page
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:396202 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001556 06461705025 0013107 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo19.mx.aol.com (imo19.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.176]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28421 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:03:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Merryben <Merryben@aol.com>
Message-ID: <f22e13e9.34c786d0@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:50:06 EST
To: llayman@neorx.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: dogs at ride
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I totally agree. My roommate and I go to rides with all four of our dogs.
They spend most of their time in the horse trailer and most people don't even
know we brought any dogs. Also neither one of us would dream of taking our
dogs to the ride meeting and especially the banquet. The dogs that are a
problem are usually running around loose.
Maryben Stover
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From: Merryben <Merryben@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3f37bdc6.34c789ba@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:02:31 EST
To: bobmorris@rmci.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Eliminate Sanctioning 2-Day 100's & 3-Day 150's
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Courtney Hart put on 2 continuous 150 miles races. Becky Hart and Melissa
Ribley were two of the finishers in both of these rides. I also remember the
Great Basin 150 in Nevada which started somewhere near Squaw Valley and ended
up in Fernley, I think. I crewed for Becky but it was a long time ago and I
can't remember exactly where it was.
Maryben
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 10:37:35 -0800
From: Kim <aliakey@geocities.com>
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On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:48:39 -0800 (PST), K S Swigart
<katswig@deltanet.com> wrote:
(snip)
> However, molassas is what is left over from sugar cane AFTER it has been
> processed and all the sugar (that white stuff you buy in the store) has
> been taken out. The sugar content of molassas is pretty low (and one need
> only taste the stuff to realize this :), it is, in actuality, quite
> bitter).
(snip)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Since Ridecamp should be a 'lil slow because of the convention, I *just*
have to meander over to the soapbox for a bit as the unofficial, unpaid,
and unknown temporary representative of the Sugar Beet Growers
Association!
Sugar beet provides a lot of sugar to the US, and so the byproduct of
molasses you may be feeding your horse is probably from this source.
Unfortunately (which is probably why I'm unofficial), I do not have any
hard numbers about the % of molasses from cane and from sugar beet. Just
had to say that... ahhh, I feel better now. Keep feeding that beet pulp
too (keeps me in business) (g)!
And, good work K S Swigart (what the heck is your first name???) on your
post! IMHO, sometimes folks can get a 'lil carried away on a wee bit of
information and need to be nudged a bit into reality (I need a lot of
nudging, uhh... pushing sometimes). Plenty of other good energy feeds
for horses out there besides just oats, barley, and corn --- just have
to know how to use them and balance your rations!
My two bits (what the heck is that worth anyway?)
Kim (and let's-go-on-a-ride-to-sample-the-molasses-at-the-refinery 'Lee)
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From: "Helga Loncosky" <hblmh@ptd.net>
To: "SandyDSA" <SandyDSA@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:01:32 -0500
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I totally agree with Sandy on this. Due to circumstances beyond my control,
I can train for 25's and 50's, but anything else is out of the question
right now. I have to board my horses, so cannot just go outside and ride,
as much as I would love to do so. I have only my income, so don't have any
help there, either. I work 12 hour swing shifts, which makes it tough to
get living done, let alone training and conditioning. And anyone who
suggests switching jobs, well I work at the best paying employer in a 100
mile radius, and if I didn't work there, I wouldn't even have a horse! I
also have elderly family members with a lot of health problems that I must
help with, there isn't anyone else to care for them.
So I feel a great accomplishment in what I can achieve, even if it's "only"
25's or 50's. And to finish is indeed to win. Racing or not.
Helga Loncosky
hblmh@ptd.net
Beacon Morgan Horses, Ltd.
***********************************************************
"There is something about the outside of a horse
that is good for the inside of a man."
-----------Winston Churchill
----------
> From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: is this fair?
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 12:00 PM
>
> In a message dated 98-01-22 03:58:17 EST, you write:
>
> << 25 milers aren't looked down upon by the organization
> Yes they are in some circles - evidenced by the time it took to GET any
kind
> of goal/reward system for the LD system.
> - in
> fact they even have a distance program aimed at ltd distance events!
> (It would take a HECK of a long time to reach the endurance mileage
> program's award levels at 25 miles per ride!)
>
> Not everyone wants to or can do 50's or 100's. It is a personal
> choice. I was at a ride a couple of years ago where the 50 milers were
> told that they were "riding half a ride" - talk about insulting! >>
> Yes this is insulting and we hear it a lot - I always scratch my head
thinking
> - this is a 23 year old horse here. I consider her continued
participation a
> minor miracle. Of course, for many reasons, just as you said, not
everyone can
> prepare to comete in the 50s and 100s etc. Children and jobs come to
mind. My
> husband has stated, "what do these people do for a living that they can
be at
> all these events?" I am curious too. I think it does come down to
priorities
> and I feel that my daughters will be grown before I know it and so they
do
> come first. Only one likes horses at all so to drag the other along makes
us
> both miserable. I don't wnat to go to the mall with her either. We
conpromise
> at times, but I don't think that works well in preparing a horse for
50-100
> miles. It does work for 25-35 miles. BUt to be demeaned for a chocie is
> insulting. Frankly, all those folks I rode with and showed with and
agaainst
> in the past 2 decades couldn't ride even 20 miles without dying in the
saddle,
> so truly, even 25-35 miiles is admirable to the VAST majority. Respect
where
> respect is due would be a great motto - besides to finish is to win,
which
> doesn't specify distance. :)
> san
>
ances beyond my control,
I can train for 25's and 50's, but anything else is out of the question
right now. I have to board my horses, so cannot just go outside and ride,
as much as I would love to do so. I have only my inc6206 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002005 06461716371 0013107 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from u3.farm.idt.net (root@u3.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.12]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA03701 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:24:36 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:18:17 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-IDT-v5 (Win95; U)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: hiking boots
References: <19980122.113838.5247.6.esppatty@juno.com>
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I ride in a pair of Nike Air Talus hiking boots, and love them! They
weren't cheap, about $90, but they were worth it. I broke my leg right
above the ankle and that ankle has always bothered me while riding until
I got these.
tracy
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:19:50 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
References: <19980122164319696.AAA281.286@pcda> <34C7794D.3AD5@earthlink.net>
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>> Dorothy Beebe wrote:
> >EZ Ride stirrups. The are the most
> >comfortable things I've ever used!! Well worth the money!!
> > They are heavy and the hurt like hell if you hit yourself in the head with
> > them though!!! (don't ask!)
>
Hehe, I'm so short that while girthing up, I just lay my stirrup across
the top of my head. Sits just perfect.....I'll have to remember the
warning if I get heavier stirrups! <G>
tracy
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:30:27 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs in camp
References: <199801221649.JAA14974@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
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I bred dogs myself and do not mind well behaved dogs in camp...the
problem is they need to have well behaved *owners*!
Go to any dog show.....dogs do NOT run loose, they are tied, on leash or
crated at all times (unless they are in the agility/obed ring) If
folks bring dogs and keep them contained at all times, I enjoy seeing
them.
What I don not like are dogs running all over camp, peeing on my tent,
barking at all hours, and pilfering food.
At the Man Against Horse ride last fall, someone had their German Shep
there ( a very lovely dog) at the banquet, he was wandering inbetween
the tables, putting his nose in the food, and just generally annoying
everyone!! His owner was standing right there letting it happen!
I woke up Sunday morning and had to boot someone's Aussie out of my box
of food in my tent!
It is dog owners like these that cause the problems and get dogs
banned. (Our city no longer allows dogs in the city parks *at all*
because no one would pick up their animals droppings.)
there must be some sort of compromise.....if your dogs is loose, you are
DQ'd from the ride perhaps?
enough rambling,
tracy
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:53:28 -0500
Subject: Patty, I lost your address!
Message-ID: <19980122.145330.3318.0.ValSharpe@juno.com>
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From: valsharpe@juno.com (Valerie K Sharpe)
This message goes out to a Patty who sent me an e-mail inquiring about
the weather in Arizona. Please write me again. My computer froze up
while I was reading your letter and when I rebooted the computer your
message was gone! Send to: ApacheMoon@juno.com
Valerie
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:55:17 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stumbling
References: <34C73B2A.4231349@flash.net>
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Bob & Amber Roberts wrote:
>
> Does anyone have problems with their horse stumbling, no matter the
> angle of the hoof? If so, what is the solution?
Our mare Katy stumbled quite a bit when she was younger---she wasn't a
klutz, she just got so interested in what was going on around her that
she didn't pay attention to where she was putting her feet. She relied
too much on me to watch the trail and yell, "Hey, watch out, idiot!"
before she wandered off cliffs. I wrapped her legs and ponied her alot
off of Cato, gave her enough rope to hang herself with, so to speak, and
walked, trotted and cantered her over rough trail---nothing dangerous,
just lots of little erosion ditches, rocks, logs, up hill, down dale,
and no fair hanging back in Cato's shadow. I crashed her through every
bush I could find, but always gave her a "way out" if she would just
look for it and take it. Pretty soon she started figuring out she
better start paying attention. Now she's a little mountain goat.
Not a solution for every horse, but worked for me.
Susan Garlinghouse
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Belly Lifts
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:57:57 -0500
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Kat wrote:
>>Just a FYI...being sensitive or ticklish is OFTEN a sign that soft
>>tissue
>>work needs to be done, in all walks of life be it two or four legged.
If what you say is true, then how is that having been athletic all my
life, ballet, swimming, gymnastics, horses, currently in my late 30's
and running 4-6 miles 3x/week in addition to riding, why have I allways
been extra sensitive and incredibly ticklish?
Just curious
Suzanne
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: One day 100's v. 2-day rides
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:04:36 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d1a642.189695687@mail.mti.net>
References: <3.0.5.32.19980122082454.007a22e0@mail.greatbasin.net>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:24:54 -0800, DreamWeaver
<karen@chaton.gardnerville.nv.us> wrote:
>>Ask some of our vets who are well versed in the physiology of the horse >if
>>a one day 100 is harder than a two day (try Matthew McKay Smith for one).
>Hi Bob:
>Okay, I'm really curious...I'd like to hear more. Are one day 100's harder
>on a horse, or is a 2-day 100? I know, obviously, that the ride itself has
>something to do with it, but say you are comparing apples to apples...same
>trail and conditions. What does everybody else think?
You asked Bob, but I'll throw in my two cents. It depends on how the
rider paces the ride. Obviously, *all else being equal*, to go 100
miles in 36 hours with a 12 hour overnight rest is less stressful than
going the same 100 miles in 24 hours without the rest. But, due to
the horse getting the rest, most riders will ride faster.
Rather than argue about which is "harder" we should recognize that
they are two different games, and the strategies used are different.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:17:37 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801222017.MAA10022@fsr.com>
Subject: Equa-blu
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Barb Peck
Email: bpeck@us.ibm.com
Louise:
What are the active ingredients ?? (Please include every thing, including inert materials)
Thanks,
Barb
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id rma021198; Thu Jan 22 14:39:15 1998
Message-ID: <34C7AE20.3DF9@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 12:37:53 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: need saddle web sites.
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Hello everyone.
I'm still collecting lots of information on saddles. Now I need to
figure out where the distributors are and if the manufacturers have
websites. If you know the url's of any of them, could you email me
privately. I've used the search engines to look up either the names or
saddle and I'm not getting anywhere fast!!!
I'm looking for:
SR Enduro
Stubben
Bighorn
Australian Stock Saddle Company
Patriot
Courbette
Crosy
Frank Baines
Wow, alot of people like their Stubbins VSD but they look a bit pricy to
me. Some have commented their widest tree is too narrow for an arab, of
course I have a big wide morab, any other comments on this?
Thanks again!
Kimberly
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Message-ID: <34C7B4BA.5B34@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:06:02 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: you want it, you got it.....saddle surveys
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Ok, I just started reading digests starting at #67 and see there are
complaints that I'm not sharing the information.
So sorry, thought I was doing the list a favor by not forwarding 60+
responses.
I'll be happy to take them out of my folder and forward them on. Last
chance to protest this (to me privately, digest is at least a day
behind) if you don't want to see these many messages or if you don't
want your message forwarded.
I KNOW saddles where talked about extensively in the past and that was
the only reason I asked it to be private. Saves me a lot of work in
putting together a survey so I don't mind forwarding them all. Anyone
not interested can just hit their delete key.
I'm gonna sent them ALL out to ridecamp in a few hours unless someone
says "no". Didn't mean to make a big deal outta nothing. And thank you
all once again for your information. Please continue to cc: me
privately.
Kimberly
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:04:24 -0500
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Preride: a good pasta dish, good bread
I avoid all meat before a ride.
During ride: Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches give a great boost.
The best drink I've found is called UltraFeul. The grape flavor
tastes like real grape juice, not real salty. It was recommended to me by
a friend who's a marathon runner. It's the only thing that keeps me
hydrated well. But I must say, there's nothing quite like a good old
Coca-cola at a vet check.
Lori Sumrall
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: good riding excuse
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:42:33 -0500
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I'm so glad to read that the rest of you care as little about doing
housework as I. And to Terry Woolley Howe, you should have all kinds of
shirts, caps, bumper stickers, etc., printed with "Boring Women Have
Immaculate Houses". That is fabulous. You'd sell millions.
And it could only be "superwomen" who can have a life and an immaculate
home (without a full time maid, anyway, which is something I'll get when I
win the lottery.) Go, Girls!! You only live once. So what if you die and
people might say at your funeral: "...and, gee, she was such a good
housekeeper."
Lori Sumrall, always living with an entropy experiment in progress.
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <rayo@cfw.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Field Trial Stake-out Rig
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:44:14 -0500
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Dear Raymond:
Those instructions you gave for that rig -- you've got to be kidding!!!
Lori Sumrall
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From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:29:40 -0500
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Susan, thanks for making the correction about the climbing rope. So what
do I know? Thank goodness for the opportunity to get so many opinions.
Lori Sumrall
----------
> From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
> To: sumralls@gateway.net
> Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 12:17 PM
>
> sumralls wrote:
> >
> > Idea for nonstretching rope for a picket line: Try REI (Recreational
> > Equipment, Inc.). They carry quite a selection of mountain climbing
ropes.
> > You know they are built not to stretch -- we hope!
>
> Actually, REI is a good source for climbing rope, but climbing ropes DO
> stretch. The leading ropes about 7-10%, although at least they stretch
> like a rubber band, don't stretch and stay stretched. Maybe that's a
> good thing if a horse tended to fight back against it. Some ropes do
> stretch ALOT, thank God---imagine falling off a cliff you were climbing,
> hitting the end of the rope twenty feet below and stopping dead without
> any stretch at all. Good way to get hurt. So if you specifically want
> a rope that does NOT stretch, ask for a rope with as little "impact
> force elongation" as possible.
>
> Another good source might be to ask about sources of used
> ropes---climbing ropes come in 165' lengths and are not cheap, but if
> someone was using it for climbing and it took a good fall or two, they
> retire the rope (understandable considering the stakes if the rope
> fails). Much, MUCH cheaper and still perfectly adequate for picket line
> rope.
>
> Just another .02
>
> Susan
Thank goodness for the opportunity to get so many opinions.
Lori S6220 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001407 06461735020 0013100 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mailmx.micron.net (mailmx.micron.net [198.60.253.39]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA14607 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:28:43 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: stirrup-eye
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:49:00 -0800
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Me too, I was de-tacking one day (with regular iron stirrups) , tossed
one over the saddle (like a cowboy) instead of running it up the
leather. As I leaned forward to unbuckle the girth, the stirrup came
back over and smacked me right of the bridge of the nose! I almost
fainted, I almost died... thank goodness the horse was tired and steady
because all I could do was clutch on to his leg and try to breathe deep.
Had two black eyes and a funny looking nose for a while! The helmet
didn't help...
> They are heavy and the hurt like hell if you hit yourself in the head with
> them though!!! (don't ask!)
>I had to smile when I read that. I've been swatted by my own stirrups,
>too. Worse yet, My husband swatted me with his as he was tacking up
>along side my horse. I thought that you needed the helmet once on
>board, not while tacking up. :)
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:51:56 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods (Grains)
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HELFTER 77 wrote:
>
> Sources of Foods
>
> Horse feeds are evolving toward processed forms with feed companies using
> "least cost" ingredients and manufacturing practices. Commercial feeds may be
> composed of soybean meal or cleanings and fines from cracked corn (by-
> products) with molasses added to reduce dust and increase palatability of
> ingredients which would otherwise be discarded with a swish of the upper lip
> or one good snort, and understandably so.
Geez, I have to admit it's a real pet peeve to read articles that try to
scare people into thinking anything processed must be horrible. Least
cost analysis doesn't mean the feed manufacturers are sweeping the floor
and dumping trash into the mixing bins and calling it horse feed. If
one feed source is equal to another in digestibility, nutrients and
quality, using the more expensive feed anyway is just dumb. Yes, alot
of horse feeds contain "by-products". Beet pulp, bran, soybean hulls,
yeast, molasses, straw, etc are all by-products and they all are very
well utilized and valuable animal feeds in the right proportions.
Sometimes the only way to get a horse to eat any feed combination in the
right amount is to pellet it---as an example, there's a hay shortage in
the NW right now. Horses can't get by without some source of
roughage---if good quality hay isn't available, good, clean straw,
processed into a pellet with a little grain and molasses is a perfectly
acceptable and nutritious hay substitute until hay is again available.
If you tried just dumping straw in front of a horse, he may or may not
eat it in adequate amounts. Assuming that anything a horse sorts
through and discards if given the choice must be bad is...well, not
exactly the best application of equine nutrition or physiology I've ever
seen.
> Sugar is as bad for horses as it is for any other species,
Oh, please. The animal body RUNS primarily on sugar, mostly in the form
of glucose. Without it, life stops. Period.
and horses may
> exhibit mood swings similarly seen in humans. Time and time again horses calm
> rapidly after molasses-sweetened feeds are removed from the diet.
And you automatically attribute that in all cases to molasses? Yes,
SOME horses do better without molasses in the diet. Just as many horses
also exhibit sensitivity to specifically corn, barley, oats, milo, etc
etc, or to protein levels, or allergies from another source. Such
blanket, all-encompassing statements are fine for personal opinion, but
in my opinion, shouldn't be offered as education.
Molasses
> also contains chemical preservatives or surfactants. Preservatives to reduce
> spoilage in the heat of the summer and surfactants such as propylene glycol to
> reduce congelation in the chill of the winter. Molasses and its baggage bring
> inconsistencies that we like to avoid.
More vague, blanket statements that don't mean much. Please cite a
single published, peer-reviewed journal article in which the specific
preservatives you refer to used in processing have caused problems.
Molasses itself is a preservative. Assuming you can find and cite even
one such empirical study, now please compare that to the thousands upon
thousand of animals and humans that have become sick and/or died as the
results of molds, fungus, aflatoxins and bacteria ingested as the result
of spoiled food.
> Pelleted feeds are used as alternatives to sweet feeds and do not cause the
> increase in blood sugar that is associated with feeding molasses coated
> grains.
I disagree. The smaller the particle size, the faster the absorption in
the small intestine and to a certain extent, the more like a simple
sugar a feed is going to behave. Please review the journals.
Grain
> sources are where a number of amino acids and natural occurring trace minerals
> are retrieved.
Amino acids are available from dozens of different sources, quite a few
of them more bioavailable, not just from grains. And, actually, most of
an herbivore's mineral requirements come from the forage, not the
grains. But, whatever.
With the methods of pelleting, even if the quality of the
> grains are good to begin with, many of the nutrients are lost in processing.
Very often not. Many nutrients are made more digestible by processing.
Some nutrients, such as the protein in soybean meal, isn't bioavailable
UNTIL it's been heat-processed. Furthermore, you're grouping every
method of "processing" under the same umbrella. For every nutritional
disadvantage to processing, there is an equally important advantage.
And finally, why are you assuming that nutrients are going to be lost
through processing, but no oxidation ever takes place in the rolled,
flaked, crimped grains you advocate? Feed manufacturers aren't entirely
stupid--yes, some vitamin and protein content is going to be lost
through heat processing---which is why it's added back in afterwards to
make up for losses. Not so with grains that are simply cracked, flaked
or whatever. If a label's guarenteed analysis says it provides X mg of
this and Y ppm of that, you better believe it's there within a
reasonable margin. USDA gets very, very fussy about things like that.
> The philosophy behind a good quality feed is to make sure you see what you are
> getting. Therefore the best feeds are oats, barley and corn.
So what you're saying is that you are capable of looking at a handful of
grain and knowing exactly what level and quality of nutrition that feed
provides? You can tell whether or not the grain is old and oxidized or
not? And that any feed in a pellet form must be garbage because you
can't individually see every nutrient in there? I've done analyses on
whole grain samples that all looked and smelled equally as good---one
was good quality feed, the other wasn't much more than garbage. No
matter WHAT form you buy your feed in, to some extent, you're relying on
the integrity and reputation of the feed company.
A combination of
> the three is the best providing a wide spectrum of amino acids and trace
> minerals. A mixture that works well consists of 45% oats (large racehorse oats
> or crimped oats); 30% steamed, rolled barley (the only form available in
> bulk); and 25% large cracked or flaked corn.
Crimped, steamed, rolled, cracked, flaked...you mean "processed"? Why
is this suddenly okay?
Yes, COB is a good mixture of grains, but not a magic bullet and
certainly no better, and in many ways worse, than a good quality,
pelleted complete concentrate ration. For example, if corn/barley/oats
were fed with orchard grass or oat hay (common in many parts of the
country) you're feeding a badly inverted calcium-phosphorus ratio and
are deficient in iron, selenium and zinc, vitamins D and E, and protein
in a growing or lactating horse. A good complete pellet from a
reputable company, on the other hand, can and will be balanced to
provide all the nutrients a horse needs for a certain production level.
However, in some areas quality of
> the grains may be a concern and an adjustment of the ratios may be made.
And who is going to be the one to discern when and how this should be
done? You're saying the average horse owner is going to be able to tell
subtle differences in grain quality and are going to know how that's
going to be able to affect their horse's nutrient profile, AND how to
make allowances for those variations?
> Contrary to popular belief, corn generates less heat when digested as opposed
> to other grain sources because corn contains less fiber and more digestible
> energy.
True. In other words, corn is easily broken down to mono- and
disaccharides and readily absorbed to a very large extent as simple
sugars. So why is corn such a great feed, but "sugars are as bad for
horses..."? I'm confused.
> Hay constitutes the bulk of the horse's diet in the winter and, in some areas
> of the country, year round.
Somebody please tell me where in the country hay is not the predominant
component of a horse's diet, winter or not. Anybody not feeding some
form of roughage as around 50% or more of the ration in a mature horse
is asking for trouble.
The horse's "fermentation vat" (cecum) needs long-
> stem fiber and not chopped fiber such as the form found in hay cubes.
What's the difference between realtively short chop fibers found in a
hay cube and a mouthful of well-chewed, long-stem hay? Last I checked,
hay doesn't reach the hindgut in the same form it went into the mouth.
Yes, there are differences, advantages and disadvantages to feeding one
form of forage and/or particle size over another, but if you're going to
make such blanket statements, you should either explain those specific
differences or not make the statement.
> Digestion of short-stem fiber takes place primarily in the small intestine,
> leaving the cecum less full than it should be.
I will agree that more ABSORPTION takes place in the small intestine,
but fermentation of fiber still must take place in the cecum and large
colon, regardless of the source. The above is a partially true
statement, but is kinda missing the forest for the trees.
I personally like feeding commodities to my own horses vs. complete
feeds just because of the cost factor. But trying to scare people over
heaven forbid, processing and chemicals and by-products, is in my
opinion, irresponsible education and borderline yellow journalism. At
Cal Poly, we use the blanket term Terrorist Nutrition, though at least
this author wasn't blatently selling some product or another. Offering
personal opinions on the advantages of one grain source over another is
fine and more than welcome in this forum, but should either be clearly
identified as such, or should include a much more thorough discussion
and explanation of the empirical facts.
Just my .02, of course.
Susan Garlinghouse, BS, MSc. An. Sci.
Equine Research Center
Cal Poly University
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From: Tivers <Tivers@aol.com>
Message-ID: <be91cb42.34c7c62f@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:20:29 EST
To: Bierstedt@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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In a message dated 98-01-22 03:41:07 EST, Bierstedt@aol.com writes:
<< In a way this makes sense, and yet, the implication is that a canter (at
the
optimal speed) could be an energy efficient gait. But surely the trot is the
gait of choice for endurance? In reality, is the trot more energy efficient
than the canter, at least for distances? Is it preferred because it can be
sustained for a longer period of time? >>
It's all speed dependent. Horses can gallop for 20 miles, canter for longer,
and probably trot for a lot longer--there is a continual energy cost to
accelerating 1,000 lbs at various speeds. Within the horse is a kind of pace-
maker that urges the animal to shift gears at a certain level of metabolic
challenge.
You and I can crawl around on our hands and knees (trot equivalent) and could
develop quite a fast crawling mode. But if the point is to get from point A to
point B in reasonable time, and if these points are far apart, then, at some
point it would be wise to stand up and start running. If you tried to crawl
ten miles as fast as possible, you'd never make it.
ti
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:28:03 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Cheryl Newbanks <horsetrails@inficad.com>
Subject: Re: Smooth Trot
In-Reply-To: <199801221659.JAA14984@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
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I totally agree with Wendy. When I bought Blue his trot was like a
trampoline and his canter like a cow's. He would stumble a lot, was gangly,
had his head cranked up way high and in general had a real sloppy way of
going. Through a lot of conditioning, engaging of his rear end, dropping
his head and rounding his back he is pretty smooth now and Blue has a
slightly upright shoulder too. So I too believe smoothness of gaits has
more to do with conditioning and how the horse uses its body then
conformation.
Cheryl Newbanks
~~ ^ ^ Just In Time Ranch
~~~\ _ ~~/ /\ / Buckeye, AZ
( )__ ) ' ' horsetrails@inficad.com
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:00:03 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Cheryl Newbanks <horsetrails@inficad.com>
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
In-Reply-To: <34C79BD6.6430@idt.net>
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Tracy Stampke wrote:
>Hehe, I'm so short that while girthing up, I just lay my stirrup across
>the top of my head. Sits just perfect.....I'll have to remember the
>warning if I get heavier stirrups! <G>
>
>tracy
>
YUP Thats right, I've seen her do it! ,<VBG> tee hee, geez tracy next
you'll be telling us that Al uses your head as a place to set his beer
too!!!!!!!
Cheryl Newbanks
~~ ^ ^ Just In Time Ranch
~~~\ _ ~~/ /\ / Buckeye, AZ
( )__ ) ' ' horsetrails@inficad.com
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:13:15 -0500
From: "Frank W. Vans Evers" <vans@cyberspy.com>
Reply-To: vans@cyberspy.com
Organization: Frank's Repairs
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To: sumralls@gateway.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
References: <199801211928.NAA15693@server3.wans.net.>
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While I agree with buying from REI you need to select the rope
carefully. The mountain climbing ropes generally do have some stretch.
The nylon ones we used in the army have a 1/3 stretch factor. You might
be better off going to your local hardware store to touch what you will
buy.
Good luck
/s/ Frank
--------------------------------
sumralls wrote:
>
> Idea for nonstretching rope for a picket line: Try REI (Recreational
> Equipment, Inc.). They carry quite a selection of mountain climbing ropes.
> You know they are built not to stretch -- we hope! I guess any "outdoor"
> type store should carry them. Also, whitewater kayakers use what they call
> a "throw bag" which contains a fabulous, high quality rope. This rope is
> used to haul swimmers out of a river. Sorry I can't estimate prices for
> you. Surely REI has a 1-800 number that you could find in 1-800-555-1212
> and they also have a catalog which contains both these items (and fabulous
> riding pants in addition made by Patagonia -- expensive but of extremely
> high quality.)
> Mountain climber's carabiners are also a good idea for attaching the lead
> rope to the picket.
> Good Luck
>
> Lori Sumrall
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Frank W. Vans Evers
mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
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by m6.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id SpZ07619; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:53:08 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:48:49 -0800
Subject: food, wide gait, dogs
Message-ID: <19980122.154850.3230.1.ToriandSteve@juno.com>
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From: toriandsteve@juno.com (Victoria A Thompson)
Hey, gang
I've been sick as a dog for two weeks now and have been spending the last
two days getting caught up on all my email. Not having any contact with
anyone except my husband for a week now I feel compelled to reach out and
touch....lucky you!!
Re ride food - eat at rides what you eat at home. Nothing will upset
your stomach more than wolfing down a power bar or Gu if you've never
eaten one before. If you eat eggs for breakfast everyday don't switch to
oatmeal the morning of a ride. If you eat peanut butter sandwiches (God
forbid) at lunch have one packed and waiting at the vet check. As for
snacks while you're riding ... if you don't normally snack (I don't, but
you'd never believe it if you saw me) get your body used to it a week or
so before a ride. Nuts are a very good energy food and the salt they
provide helps on those hot days, just make sure you have plenty of water
with you. I suffer from heat exhaustion very easily and have learned to
grab a handful of trail mix whenever I go out on long rides or hikes.
Re wide hind end - I'm in trouble. Taffy is so wide in the hind end she
steps off into oblivion when we go on skinny trails. I'm hoping she'll
wise up. She used to step off with the front feet too, but she's learned
that walking off cliffs head first gets Mama very upset. Now we're
working on "Mama gets upset when either end goes off the cliff".
Re dogs - I vote for leaving them at home, but if you do bring them be
forewarned Taffy kills dogs. She especially hates black ones. Black
dogs that come over to say hi to me are highest on her list of "Things to
Destroy". She's cleaned all the neighborhood dogs clocks. One of my
barnmates insists on bringing her Golden with her and ties the poor thing
to the stall door opposite from Taffy. Taffy hangs her head over her
door, pins her ears back and clacks her teeth together, and this poor dog
cowers back and whines. Taffy is greatly amused by this and clacks her
teeth even louder. I must say that there is a good 12 feet between the
two, so don't go thinking Taffy can actually reach the dog. Anyway, the
louder Taffy clacks her teeth the louder the dog whines and the more
amused Taffy gets. Taffy will start answering the dogs whine with a
squeal and the barn really gets vibrating with noise. Meanwhile I'm
sitting back enjoying the show and the dogs owner is totaling ignoring
the whole thing. The only dog I've ever seen Taffy ignore is a little
miniature wienerschnitzel dog. The thing is so tiny I think Taffy feels
it isn't worth her time.
Now that I'm totally exhausted I'm going back to the couch and my Nyquil.
Tori
an 1998 15:57:45 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:48:49 -0800
Subject: food, wide gait, dogs
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:19:16 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: Victoria A Thompson <toriandsteve@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Falling off of cliffs
References: <19980122.154850.3230.1.ToriandSteve@juno.com>
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Victoria A Thompson wrote:
> Re wide hind end - I'm in trouble. Taffy is so wide in the hind end she
> steps off into oblivion when we go on skinny trails. I'm hoping she'll
> wise up. She used to step off with the front feet too, but she's learned
> that walking off cliffs head first gets Mama very upset. Now we're
> working on "Mama gets upset when either end goes off the cliff".
On the "falling off of the cliff" vein, my husband & I noticed that
horses seem to have an affinity for the very edge of the ledge. It
didn't make any sense to us, so we started watching how folks rode these
sections.
We noticed that most folks leaned <away> from the edge. Think of the
following scenario:
Cliff to the right
Solid mountain to the left.
Rider leans to mountain/to the left. His/her left seat bone is now more
weighted and pushes the horse to the right, TOWARDS the edge. Poor
horse is being told to side pass off the side of the mountain and he
probably thinks the rider is crazy.
Since we've been aware of this tendency, we have horses that calmly walk
down the CENTER of the trail :) Doesn't address the issue of a horse
who moves wide behind placing feet over the edge, but our wide mover
learned over time where his feet belong.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: Re: Falling off of cliffs
In-Reply-To: <34C7E204.6617@earthlink.net> from "Linda S. Flemmer" at "Jan 22, 98 07:19:16 pm"
To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:37:18 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
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> We noticed that most folks leaned <away> from the edge. Think of the
> following scenario:
> Cliff to the right
> Solid mountain to the left.
>
> Rider leans to mountain/to the left. His/her left seat bone is now more
> weighted and pushes the horse to the right, TOWARDS the edge. Poor
> horse is being told to side pass off the side of the mountain and he
> probably thinks the rider is crazy.
I've done this and *know* that's what happens. But no amount
of brain power could convince my body that it was OK to sit
up straight and ignore the 500 foot drop down into the
American River Canyon ("Isn't it pretty?" Karen comments...
as I gulp quietly to myself).
Even when you try and make yourself, you know that you're
still leaning... and then the horse knocks a rock off over
the edge and insists on turning his head to gawp at the
noise. "Good horsie, look straight ahead... please? Gulp"...
This is part of the American River 25/50/70 ride, if anyone
knows it, between Rattlesnake Bar and Cardiac Hill. And this
year they rode it after very heavy rains the day before. Double
gulp. I hope trail erosion is minimal...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Message-ID: <34C7EA24.5E17@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:53:56 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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ok, ok, ok...didn't mean to hog the info. If anyone still interested in
my lotus printout Summarizing this information, give me your Mailing
Address or FAX Number. That was the ONLY way I could organize it for
myself. I'm cutting and pasting replies by date, hoping not to miss
any. It will be long so I'll send several out. Good luck!
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab.."I don't mine just running around in
pasture and not being ridden..in fact, no saddle will ever fit
me!!!hee,hee).
***********************8
bject:
English Saddles
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:19:04 -0700
From:
Beverly Gray <bgray@xmission.com>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Hi Kimberly;
I saw your note on endurance net. I ride the Arabian Saddle Company
Endurance Model called the Solstice. It is an English saddle but
features specifically desgined for endurance riders- extra padded seat,
padded knee rolls, wider panels to evenly distribute weight, shorter
design for the short backed Arabians, etc. May I send you a free
catalog? I have several demos for sale and you are welcome to try the
saddle. Look up my web page www.endurance.net/arabsaddle.
Happy Trails,
Beverly Gray
Subject:
english saddles for endurance
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:03:22 -0600
From:
Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
Organization:
Houston Chronicle
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Kimberly,
i have been doing LD for a little more than a year now, and i use an
english saddle. i have had to switch saddles due to fit problems with my
horse, but i prefer english saddles. i compete in dressage with my
second horse and i hate western saddles. the twist is way too wide for
me and they make me sore..
i have used an all purpose "event" saddle (collegiate from miller's) and
am currently using a wintec dressage pro. i love the wintec but it is
causing a few white hairs on my horses' back..so i will probably try the
wintec endurance model next. i like the wintec because it is no
maintenance -- even when it is not raining, you get yourself and your
saddle all wet when you stop to sponge your horse...and here near
houston, where the summers are endless days of 96 temp with about 80%
humidity, we sponge a LOT. i liked my collegiate but got tired of having
a mildew-y saddle!
as far as where to put your stuff -- i wear a largish fanny pack..but am
probably going to buy something to hook on my saddle at the convention,
as the fanny pack is constrictive and hot in the summer. about every
endurance tack place makes special bags that fit in front of the pommel
of english type saddles. there's a part that goes underneath the saddle
to hold it all securely. you just have to see one to understand how they
work. pricey tho -- about $60...and my dressage saddle does have two
rings on one side..tho not nearly as many as a western or endurance
saddle...
hope this helps...
cyndi
cyndi.craig@chron.com
donerail farm
alvin, texas
t:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:15:34 -0800 (PST)
From:
Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
> Does anyone ride in english saddles out there on endurance rides? What
> type if so and where do you put all your "stuff"?
>
> Are there any endurance type saddles one can "try" before they "buy"?
I was thinking about Wintec endurance saddles - light, cheap
with lots of rings on them. The tack store in Woodland had
one a while back - it seemed quite hard to me (in the seat) -
I know they'll let you drive your horse there and make sure
it fits properly. Don't know if they'll let you take one on
loan with a view to returning if you don't like it.
They are called "Brenda's Tack" - 1 800 400 8225
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:31:04 -0000
From:
windfall@access1.net (windfall)
To:
<PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Kimberly,
I have been riding a Stubben Siegfried since 1972. Actually this is my
second saddle-the other one is completely worn out. It has fit all of
my
horses over the years with just a synthetic sheepskin pad. I use a
simple
breastcollar of 1" nylon webbing. I still believe that the KISS (keep
it
simple stupid) method is best. I have seen a lot of horses with huge
white
spots on their backs from the expensive new "endurance" saddles on the
market. English saddles cover a minimum amount of skin surface for
better
cooling which is a definite consideration in the hotter climates. Also a
lot of the other saddles are too long on most short coupled arab backs
which causes "Scrubbing"-rubbing and loss of hair on their back on the
top
of the loin area from the back of the saddles. I guess it relies mostly
on
your comfort level and riding skills as to what type of saddle you
use.
----------
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:46:36 -0800
From:
Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
Reply-To:
Lynne@Glazer.org
Organization:
Lynne Glazer Microsystems
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
I ride a Passier PSL (all purpose) and use front and rear snugpax for my
stuff.
And an easyboot bag from Griffins.
Bought my saddle used for ring work, and was surprised to like it enough
to ride it for distance.
Lent my Sports Saddle to a friend, and she wants to buy it with all the
"trimmings", so since trading the Ortho-flex with some money for my
colt, I'm astoundingly down to one saddle.
BTW, it's been restuffed to match my changing horse 3 times since
purchase in April!
Lynne
Subject:
RE: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:57:00 -0600
From:
Bridget Cavanaugh <BridgetC@pagemart.com>
To:
PLOUGH1 <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
While many think that the criteria for a saddle is how it suits the
rider, I think the most important thing to think about is how it suits
the horse. Both of you have to spend grueling hours on the trail
dealing
with a saddle's short comings.
I'm a big fan of the John Dipetra saddle. I did my first Tevis ride in
it
last year without a single bruise or rub mark on my legs. That's the
best testimonial I can give you.
On how to trial one: I've had people come up to me at rides and ask to
borrow it for a spin around the camp, but it's difficult to find
someone
to let you borrow one for a 25 or 50 mile ride, but that's a good
idea.
Maybe you could post something to ride camp asking for people in your
region to rent you a saddle for a ride.
I think there are really great saddles made by ZES (Boyd Zontelli), SR
Endro and Dipetra, and all of these can be customized to fit your
horse's
back. I'm sure you'll get lots of email from other people passionate
about their saddles. What I've found in these three is that they are
truly "BALANCED". The saddle puts your feet in the right position for
balanced riding (e.g. Donna Snyder-Smith techniques). For long rides,
in
an english saddle you have to work harder (and thus more jarring on
the
horse's back) than the other riders using endurance saddles that fit
the
uniqueness of your horse's back.
Every saddle is designed for a specific utilitirian purpose and
endurance
saddles are meant to go the distance. If it's in the budget, I
recommend
it.
Good luck!
----------
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:32:04 EST
From:
Arabnracer <Arabnracer@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM
I love my sportsaddle, treeless, all A's on my horses backs and nothing
better
for the rider, they can be tried first but it takes 2 months to get your
once
you've ordered it, they make them to order
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:46:06 -0800
From:
Gary Fend <garyfend@pacbell.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
Gee, I thought everyone rode in english saddles. I ride on a courbette
kurfurst that i bought in Pt Reyes station about 4 years ago and I love
it.
The lady at the store went out of her way to insure a good fit and have
not
had any problems with over 1000 miles on my mare. It was kind of funny
fitting the saddle. We parked right in town, unloaded the horse, and
tried
on about 6 different tree sizes before finding the right size to order.
Sportack can supply all the necessary bags to carry anything you need.
I can't imagine riding on anything else.
Gary and Cinnabar in Walnut Creek
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:46:18 EST
From:
Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Hi, Kimberly:
My husband did a couple of rides in an English-style endurance saddle
made in
England by a company called Clover. It didn't fit his horse very well,
however, so I've inherited it and I'm using it on my 4-year-old Arab.
(It has
a wide tree.) We haven't done any endurance rides yet (we're still
getting
trail savvy), and we haven't gone on any rides longer than about 7
miles.
However, I do like the saddle very much.
Now that I've said that, I have to tell you that they're not importing
them to
this country any more. It has D-rings all over it for tying stuff on,
plus I
use either a pad with pockets or a saddle bag that fits in back of the
cantle.
Personally, I'm much more comfortable in an English saddle than a
Western
saddle.
Karen
ubject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:24:26 -0600
From:
"spencer" <spencer@inu.net>
To:
<PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Hi Kimberly--I have used a Wintec synthetic allpurpose saddle off and on
for endurance rides and
shows for past several years. Partly because of cost and partly for
ease of maintenance. I also ride
in a leather dressage saddle. Am able to 'stick' really well to
synthetic saddle wearing cotton lycra
pants. One of these days I would like a REAL Australian saddle. Rode
in one on rented horse in
SanAntonio and really liked it, but can't use it for showing dressage.
Good luck and enjoy..here in
TX we are having some great weather for riding now. Feel sorry for the
folks with all the ice and
snow, but that is why I don't live up there. Mary Ann
----------
ubject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:46:47 -0800 (PST)
From:
K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To:
Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Kimberly Price wrote:
> Does anyone ride in english saddles out there on endurance rides? What
> type if so and where do you put all your "stuff"?
Yes, depending on my horse's body shape (I have three with differing
tree
widths), I use a Crosy Lexington, a Stubben Lohngfried, or a Crosy
Olympia. The Crosby's are the old kind (with stuffable panels) that
they
don't make anymore, and I wouldn't use the new ones (the ones without
stuffable panels) since I like to be able to restuff the saddle after a
while. The felt panels "wear out" and you pretty much have to replace
the
saddle. If you ride endurance, you will wear it out pretty quick.
I put all my "stuff" (of which I think I have a great deal less than
most
people) in my cantle pack (specially made for english saddles and
endurance riders) or in my fanny pack (which I wear around MY waist).
If
I need more space, I put on another fanny pack.
My saddle has also installed 8-rings on each of these saddles, which I
had
him do when he first restuffed each of them (only added the cost of the
rings themselves to the price of the work).
The Lexington is a "hunt" saddle (not for riding in hunter classes in
shows, but actually for cross country hunting), the Lohngfried is a jump
saddle (not a close contact for riding in hunter classes, but one
designed
for grand prix jumping, i.e. BIG fences), and the Olympia is an Eventing
saddle (designed for riding the cross country portion of the event, but
also suitable for doing dressage and show jumping).
Let me know if you have any questions. I wouldn't ride in anything
else.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:47:35 EST
From:
REBELCJB <REBELCJB@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM
Kimberly,
For the first 6 yrs. of my competitions, I rode a thorowgood synthetic
dressage saddle and was very comfortable with it. I added rings to it
and
also filled up my fanny pack.
Carla Bass & Midnight Bay DBA+ (who is getting webbed feet from all the
rain)
ubject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:58:19 -0600
From:
Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Hi Kimberly,
Yes, lots of people I ride with use English saddles. There are some made
just for endurance riding -- they have lots of D rings for hanging your
stuff.
I've done some distance riding in an all purpose saddle. It was ok. Most
people who ride long distance in english saddles use the endurance
styles
or dressage. They like the deep seat. A hut seat saddle is not the most
comfortable because that forward position is hard to carry for miles on
end. An endurance or dressage saddle makes you sit more upright.
I have found an Aussie saddle that works real well for me and Star. It
has
a deep seat and long flaps like a dressage saddle, and has more d-rings
than I will ever use.
If you have a saddle with no d-rings, you can have a saddle maker put
some
on for you. Or do like some competitors do, just wear a fanny pack
andhang
lots of stuff on yourself!
chris paus & star (who has beenthrough 12 saddles finding the right one)
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 22:19:24 -0500
From:
"Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
Kimberly Price wrote:
>
> Does anyone ride in english saddles out there on endurance rides? What
> type if so and where do you put all your "stuff"?
I did use an english forward jumping saddle on one mare in the early
80's. It was uncomfortable for me, but it was the only thing that I
could find that fit her. I had a saddle repairman add loops on the near
side to compliment the off side rings. There are also cantle and pommel
packs that fit onto an english saddle's billets that are "no-bounce".
Very helpful for stuffing things away.
> Are there any endurance type saddles one can "try" before they "buy"?
Many folks/stores will allow you to try a used or new saddle, but not to
the extent that you need to see if it works. (no stirrups, girth billet
marks ok, no sweat/dirt for a trial). I would look for used saddle, ask
to try saddles at rides, etc.
Sharon Saare will send trees to try on the horse & offers fitting
clinics. I ride in an Orthoflex. I think that they fit specific
horses' backs, and service runs hot & cold. That being said, they offer
a 30 day trial with satisfaction or a refund. (Some folks have had
problems getting the refund - lots of run around, but a gorgeous, well
made saddle.
Good luck saddle hunting!
Linda Flemmer
Blue WOlf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
trimmings", so since trading the Ortho-flex with some money for my
colt, I'm astoundingly down to one saddle.
BTW, it's been restuffed to match my changing horse 3 times since
purchase in April!
Lynne
Subject:
RE: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 16:57:00 -0600
From:
Bridget Cavanaugh <BridgetC@pagemart.com>
To:
PLOUGH1 <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
While many think that the criteria for a saddle is how it suits the
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Message-ID: <34C7EB25.2E4F@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:58:13 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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Subject: saddle survey#2 (long)
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Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:00:03 EST
From:
rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
Hi Kimberly,
I started out on a jumping saddle. It made my horse's back sore. But
besides that, I had major lower back pain. It's because the jumping
seat
involves you leaning forward (hence the name forward seat) This
position
puts a lot of strain on your lower back. If I were going to ride an
English saddle, I would look at the dressage saddles. Nina Warren, who
until recently was the winningest rider in history, rides an English
saddle. So does Melissa Crain who has been in several international
competitions.
Angie McGhee
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 23:36:30, -0500
From:
XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
My husband rode for years in a Stubben and my kids both ride English.
My
son in a synthetic, my daughter in a leather.
Change the stirrups! Get some type of trail tec, flex ride, EZ ride,
etc.
My kids, who are small, solved the problem carrying stuff by getting
these
really neat pads that have pockets. They put their easy boot in one,
and
their water bottle in the other.
My husband puts his easy boot on his breast collar and wears his water
and
necessary stuff. Remember, if you truely need your stuff, your horse
will
probably be gone! He also got more rings added on to his Stubben.
Hope this helps.
Louise Burton & Fa Al Badi+/
Firedance Farms Endurance Arabians
OK
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:26:27 -0800 (PST)
From:
rburgess@slonet.org (robyn burgess)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Hi Kimberly,
>Does anyone ride in english saddles out there on endurance rides? What
>type if so and where do you put all your "stuff"?
I've ridden for the last 2 1/2 years in a english saddle - a Courbette
Kurfurst. I love the saddle, it's real comfortable and secure. I just
bought a used SR Enduro (I've wanted an SR Enduro for so long and am so
jazzed to finally get one!!) so I'm selling my Kurfurst now. I always
swore as a kid I'd never ride in an english saddle...boy did I have to
eat LOTS of crow when I tried this one and bought it! Snug Pak makes a
pack that fits on the back - it holds 2 water bottles and has enough
room to pack plenty of "stuff." This pack is made to fit specifically
for english type saddles. I got mine from Sport Tack. In fact I'm
gonna sell it now cuz it won't work right on the new saddle. The
Kurfurst has lots of rings to hook things on......sponge, scoop, etc...
I attatched the heart monitor pouch and a vet card pouch to my breast
collar. I took alot of teasing from my mom about "Robyn is riding in an
english saddle.....is she okay?" This goes WAY back to the rivalry
between my sister and I. I was a dead hard western rider and my sister
rode english......we constantly argued about which was better. Of
course the 17+ hand thoroughbred she rode would have looked mighty funny
in a western saddle. But I have to admit......I really like this
saddle!
I also have an "endurance type" saddle (haven't a clue who made it!)
that I used when I first started in endurance. I bought it from Jackie
Bumgardner in '94 and used it for a little over 2 years. (Gotta sell it
too!) I guess what you use is just up to you and your own
preferance......just like the discussions on what breed or color of
horse is best. Whatever works best for you!
Good luck in your search!
Robyn Burgess
Atascadero, CA
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 06:37:47 -0500 (EST)
From:
Dolores Arste <darste@emi.com>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
I ride in a Frank Baines. It has rings all over it for stuff, is well
balanced, and has a dressage type seat. It encourages you to ride long
and
my horse loves it. Demos ARE available. Write back to me and I can tell
you
more.
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:33:13 EST
From:
MSulli5332 <MSulli5332@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Kimberly,
I ride in a Stubben. I used to ride in a Wintec but it made my mares
hair turn
white near her withers. Wintecs seem to work ok if you're a
featherweight but
I'm not. I have never had any problems with the Stubben. I chose Stubben
over
other saddles because they have been in business for over a hundred
years and
I figured for a saddle company to stay in business for that long they
must be
doing something right. There are many different styles of Stubben
saddles so
you really need to sit in some and see which one fits you best. They are
pretty expensive but as far as I'm concerned they are well worth it. If
you're
going to the convention there should be a lot of different types of
saddles
there that you can try. Remember, If you're not comfortable your horse
won't
be either and if your horse isn't comfortable neither are you. Hope this
helps.
Maureen
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:44:19 EST
From:
RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Hi , I use english saddles I have Stubben Survival
Tristen Jessica Dressage ThroGood-------I take them
to a saddle maker and have more rings and things put
on
Marcy
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 14:58:38 EST
From:
Misxfire <Misxfire@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM
Hi Kimberly,
I alternate using an English saddle, a Courbette Trenck, with an OF
with a
separate firm synthetic felt pad which eliminates the loin scrubbing. I
use
two saddles because I have not been lucky enough to find one saddle that
fits
my horse. By doing this the area of the white hairs has a chance to
rest.
Have been doing this for years and the horse has no permanent white
hairs nor
does the horse get marked down for back soreness on either NATRC or AERC
rides
On both saddles I use pommel bags to carry large soft sided H20 bottles
which
I use to pour on the horse or for him to drink out of a scoop and I tie
the
rump rug and/or poncho to the back of the saddle. I don't carry
anything
heavy or firm on the back of the saddle cause I am afraid no matter how
well
stuff is tied down it will bounce and make the horse's loin sore. The
pommel
bags are thickly padded on the side that touches the horse. They do
bounce
around but don't seem to hurt the horse's shoulders. I also use a waist
pack
for the easyboot and my own and the horse's food and electrolytes and
wear a
Camel for my water.
Good luck,
Judy Etheridge
Subject:
Re: english vs endurance model saddles
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:03:53 EST
From:
CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM
Myself and alot of my friends ride the "english/trail" model of
Ortho-Flex.
The most popular one is the Endurance Cutback. It's built on the
Dresseur
dressage tree but has an all-purpose flap. We like it because of the
padded
seat and 2" thighblocks for security on down hills and spooks. The
patented
panel system gives greater weight distribution over a larger area which
reduces the pounds per square inch weight factor. The panel system
flex's and
moves with the horse's back rather than being fixed a real comfort plus
for
most horses. Not the perfect saddle for all horses but definetly one of
the
most comfortable.
Sorry to run-on but I get calls all the time from people who have tried
so
many and are happy with the O/F for both them AND their horse. (and
yes, I
do sell them, new and used). Good luck. (P.S. A lot of us used to be
in
Kieffers, Wintecs, Stubben's. The first Wintec's we got for our kids
spoiled
our derierre's and then O/F came out with padded. We couldn't go back
to our
minimal support, non-padded English saddles. I liked the first
Wintec's.
They've lost their original comfort and for awhile were very narrow in
the
gullet. I preferred the AAchen A/P Kieffer and the Tristen-Stubben.
The
jump/forward seat saddles are to forward leg position wise, as far as I
am
concerned for distance riding. (Marathon/Paragon/Siegried etc). It is
easy
to have d-rings and footman loops added.
would have looked mighty funny
in a western saddle. But I have to admit..6232 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000040441 06461767202 0013113 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.9]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA00422 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:12:29 -0800 (PST)
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id rma012625; Thu Jan 22 19:09:36 1998
Message-ID: <34C7ED7D.40EC@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:08:13 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: saddle survey#3 (long)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Subject:
saddle ??
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:50:26 +0100
From:
Karen Allnutt <allnutt@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
1. Typically an all purpose allows you to jump, sits you deeper than an
eventing saddle, more shallow than a dressage saddle while an eventing
saddle is designed more for jumping (2 point position) than all purpose
or
dressage. Remember 2 of the events in eventing involve jumping.
2. Don't know I use an english all purpose for me endurance work.
3. I own a Stubben eventing saddle (that's what I used to do when I had
more $$). I am lucky enough to have 4 saddles (Stubben, Australian
semi-stock, dressage, and all purpose - all nonStubben are Australian
made
saddles purchased when we lived in Australia, the Stubben was purchased
used in the states. 2 saddles are wide trees and 2 are narrow trees).
I
am looking at buying a Stubben VSD to use for endurance (I have 2 horses
who both wear the same size tack. Yes I cannot ride them both at the
same
time, but when another person rides the other horse most people feel
more
comfortable in an all purpose than the eventing saddle.
It would be interesting to see what everyone else has to say.
KcA & Rose (running on all this new snow feels wonderful) & Archie (I'll
second that)
ubject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:47:38 -0800
From:
Jessica Tuteur <jessicat@napanet.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Hey Kimberely,
Wet enough for you? Boy am I sick of this rain. Well I will venture an
answer to your questions. Just so you know I have 4 saddles, 3 of which
I
use for endurance. Orthoflex Stitchdown (fits 2 horses very well, 1 ok),
sharon saare (fits the one it was made for fairly well, fits 1 other
ok),
Sport saddle (fits a horse with a back deformity, I do not like it on
any of
my other horses) and a Jessica dressage saddle (use it only for ring
work).
>1.. What is the difference between an all-purpose seat and an eventing
>seat?
I would think eventing seat is more for jumping, stadium and cross
country
while all-purpose is exactly that, for all events (as in 3 day eventing)
>
>2.. On the endurance types...do they lean more toward the "english" tree
>or more toward the "western" tree and twist? Can you do arena work with
>the endurance models?
Western. I know lots of people who take lessons in their endurance
saddles.
It has to do with if you are comfortable, etc. If it fits the horse it
does
not matter at low levels what type of saddle you use.
>
>3..Any other stubben owners out there I'd like to hear from you too.
I have owned Stubbens and other english saddles. Don't reccomend them
for
endurance because the panels of the tre are narrow and focus too much
weight
in one area.
Hope this helps
Jessica
*****************************************************************
Jessica Tuteur, Ride Manager Wine Country 50 6/6/98
J-M Ranch & HorseBums
1393 Green Valley Rd.
Napa, CA 94558
(707) 258-1937 tel & fax
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:55:47 -0500
From:
"Helga Loncosky" <hblmh@ptd.net>
To:
<PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
I use two different saddles, mostly due to using 2 different horses.
On my mare, I use a A-Betta Cordura Softee Endurance saddle, absolutely
love this saddle, the only thing I would change is move the fenders a
hare
back. Excellent on my good withered mare.
On my gelding, I use a Wintec Dressage Sport. Very comfortable, and both
are easy to clean and very light. I'm sold on both of them! My gelding
is
wider, so this saddle fits him nicely.
Helga Loncosky
hblmh@ptd.net
Beacon Morgan Horses, Ltd.
***********************************************************
"There is something about the outside of a horse
that is good for the inside of a man."
-----------Winston Churchill
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:08:43 -0800
From:
"Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Hi Kimberly!
I have a Stubben Survival saddle for Magnum. It's very
much like an english all purpose, but it has much bigger
blocks and heavy duty hardware. It fits the ol' TB just
great. I did a flat schooling show in it, but the bars
are too far forward to keep my leg in the right position.
SO, seeing as we have this new carreer, I got him a
dressage saddle on sale ($299!!!) that fits him good.
The next schooling show (and lessons) my leg was in
a much better position. We won 3 classes! I think that's
worth $299 + new leathers, girth, pads, etc. don't you? :)
Anyways, I met with the Stubben rep in 1996 at the Christenson's
sale. The Survival is sorta being replaced with a new
"Stubben Endurance Model" (whose name escapes me) that is
much more like a dressage saddle with shorter flaps. I'm
really impressed with them. I got the Survival new, but if
I had to do it over again, I would get the newer Stubben
endurance dressagey model.
I'd seriously consider riding atleast a 30 in the dressage
saddle except that I'm more concerned about Magnum's back
than my legs and the Stubben is a better saddle than the
St. Croix. We did TONS of miles in the Stubben and he didn't
have any trouble at all with it. You know Stacey Berger
with Porter (She posts now and again)? She rides in a
dressage saddle. Kathy Ruiz does too I think. And my
friend Gabrielle. But first and formost the saddle needs
to fit the horse's back and not move around.
I also rode quite a few miles in a Crates western saddle
(because it fit the Arab/QH cross) and the stirrups hung
better than the Stubben survival! I rode it with my
Ariats and Ariat 1/2 Chaps... what the hell.
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:16:23 -0600
From:
Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Stubbens are wonderful saddles, HOWEVER, their widest tree is not wide
enough for many Arabs.
chris paus & star (who has done the saddle fitting odyssey)
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:15:28 -0600
From:
Roger or Debby Stai <rstai@flash.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
I've always ridden in an english saddle, mainly because my daughter took
english lessons for a long time so I got into it too. My horse is very
peculiar to fit to a saddle, no withers, these thick shoulders on both
sides of where the withers are supposed to be, and a round, wide back.
He takes a wide english saddle, no forward tree because it pinches his
shoulders. I've tried lately fitting him to endurance saddles but to no
avail as they all fall off to the sides, no matter how tight you do the
cinch. Tried different pads and girths and it still does it. So back to
the wide english all-purpose saddle we go. Have you had others with this
problem, Thanks, Debby
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:03:17 -0500
From:
valsharpe@juno.com (Valerie K Sharpe)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
In response to your question regarding the types of saddles people use,
I
have an Australian Stock Saddle that I just love! I bought it in Malibu
Cal. at the Australian Stock Saddle Company. I've had it for 3 years
now
and it is not only the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden in but I
have also come to trust it in sticky situations. I am curious as to if
anyone has mention using the orthaflex saddles? I have one that I
bought
used and it has sored up all of my horse's backs in exactly the same
spot. My husband has watched the saddle from behind me when we are out
on trail rides and he thinks that the back of the saddle moves just
enough in a circular motion that it sores the horses. The reason I ask
is that I have heard that orthaflex has come out with a #2 saddle that
they have sworn to me won't sore the horse's back, but they won't stand
behind their saddles and except full refund returns if the saddle does
sore the horse's back.
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:03:14 -0800 (PST)
From:
karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Kimberly
I ride an SR Enduro, they are pricey but hold resale value really well,
the
greatest point of course is that they can be refit for a new horse. The
quality of leather and craftmanship is the best I've ever seen in an
endurance saddle and they are so well balanced and easy to ride.
The problem with the 'forward' type seats in english saddles is that you
are
not balanced, it's hard to get your feet under you where they should be.
>Questions:
>2.. Can you do arena work with the endurance models?
very definately can with mine, I do a lot of (advanced) dressage
and
am very balanced with a lot of close contact
Karen Clanin
kclanin@fix.net
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:30:50 -0800 (PST)
From:
karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
A couple of years ago at a ride I pulled at the vet
check
because I'd been stunt/bitten by some unknown wasp type of thing, really
was
not feeling well at all. I wanted nothing more than to pull my saddle
off
(out in a clearing where we could see the vet check but had to reach it
by a
very round about way) and turn my horse loose, lay down and die right
there.
Daughter came in just after us with another saddle
problem
and was going to pull, I suggested that we try my SR Enduro on her horse
to
see if it were close enough of a fit for her to finish. Thought I would
never get my saddle back when we all got to camp....she loved it, said:
"Gee, Mom, I could post with no effort at all, stand in the stirrups and
not
have to work at it, can I have it?" Well, she just bought a used SR
Enduro
so now has her very own !!!!!
Good luck, I hate the saddle hunt part almost worse than
the
horse hunt!
Karen
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:13:56 EST
From:
RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM
With a dressage saddle you are basically straight
up and down. It makes it easier to stand up to ride.
with knee rolls you have something to lean into and
ride more forward. If you have a horse with a high
head carriage you don't want to lean to far forward.
I've had a lot of ears in my mouth doing that.
Marcy
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:39:56 EST
From:
RudeCoInc <RudeCoInc@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Kimberly, put me on your saddle spreadsheet list to email. I searched
and
search
and got an American Endurance for my Paso because it fit and I'm not
comfortable in English after hours in the woods. I strictly trail ride.
However, I lost my seat in that
saddle when my horse stopped on the dime I was seeking and am now
sitting for
months repairing the foot that snapped off my leg when I jumped off
rather
than
sail over a shoulder. The seat is slick leather and the fenders slick
and my
right foot
flew out of the stirrup but the left didn't keep up to speed. Am now
looking
for
velcro seats!
Linda at RudeCoInc@aol.com
Subject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:20:07 -0800 (PST)
From:
karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Kimberly
I forgot to mention that at one point when I was figuring I would be
riding
2 horses and would want a saddle for each I bought a Courbette Kurfurst,
this is Courbett's endurance model and it's very much like a dressage
saddle
so fairly well balanced. I liked it a LOT and when the first one I
tried
wasn't wide enough for the horse I wanted it for my daughter, a western
saddle snob like me -- to many days in the western plesure classes --
wanted
to ride with us but the saddle she was using broken -- yes, same one
that
broke and got her into my SR Enduro -- i told her she could use this
Kurfurst if she wanted to try it. Well, she's always hated English but
wanted to ride bad enough that she tried it and guess what, she bought
it!!!
She's been riding it for over 2 years and loves the saddle however when
she
got the chance to get an SR she did it. Anyway, back to my story, when
the
two horses bit didn't pan out I sold the Kurfurst because deep down I
prefer
a western style saddle.
Robyns Kurfurst is for sale if that becomes a saddle you want to
consider,
it's still in great condition and priced very fairly.
Karen Clanin
kclanin@fix.net
ubject:
saddles
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:53:27 EST
From:
esppatty@juno.com (Patty Lambert)
To:
plough1@ix.netcom.com
Hi, Kimberly,
You asked about saddles on endurance rides. I've been riding in a County
dressage saddle for many years & have done 3 Old Dominion hundreds in
it,so I guess you could say I'm satisfied with it (but had to have it
drastically altered to fit my horse's very narrow, high withers.) As far
as carrying stuff, I had d-rings put on both sides (would have done 2
per
side if I'd known then what I know now) and use pommel bags (actually
shoulder bags) that attach to the front d's, hang the sponge & ezboot
off
the back d's & wear a fanny pack as well as a vest with lots of pockets.
First of all, horse & rider have to both be comfortable - if one or the
other is uncomfortable it will affect your performance. Worry about
attaching things after you've solved the first problem. You can always
get hardware put on if it isn't included. Good luck!
Patty
esppatty@juno.com
Subject:
saddles
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 98 08:28:16 PST
From:
llayman@neorx.com
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
I ride in a dressage style saddle almost exclusively.
I use my wintec dressage with a nice thick sheepskin cover for the
Endurance Rides and for training rides. It's an older model that
they
don't make anymore. I like it because it has moulded to my horse's
back. I also use a really expensive leather Moritz for arena work.
I
just don't want to use my endurance saddle more than necessary and
I
will not use my expensive Moritz on a Ride.
I like the secure seat the saddle provides, and regardless of what
I
do (trail work/arena work) I only have to work on one way of
riding. I
use the dressage training to put my horse in the correct frame to
reduce his fatigue over the long run. I couldn't do that
effectively
if I switched saddle types all of the time.
So there you have it. An addiction to the dressage saddle.
Have a great day!
Linda-Cathrine
LLayman@NeoRx.com
les
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:02:00 -0800
From:
"Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To:
"'Kimberly Price'" <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
I ride in a Stubben VSD and my husband rides in a County dressage.
Stuben seigfreid will KILL your back. It puts you too far forward. The
VSD is like a seigfreid but the leg is more of a dressage leg,
underneath you. Very comfortable.
****that brings up up thru Wed the 21st**** more shall follow.
(I told you'all it was a lot!) :-)
back and not move around.
I also rode quite a few miles in a Crates western saddle
(because it fit the Arab/QH cross) and the stirrups hung
better than the Stubben survival! I rode it with my
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Message-ID: <34C7EDCD.3A48@idt.net>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:09:33 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: Cheryl Newbanks <horsetrails@inficad.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
References: <19980122164319696.AAA281.286@pcda>
<34C7794D.3AD5@earthlink.net> <3.0.5.32.19980122160003.007a5140@mail.inficad.com>
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Cheryl Newbanks wrote:
> >Hehe, I'm so short that while girthing up, I just lay my stirrup across
> >the top of my head. Sits just perfect.....I'll have to remember the
> >warning if I get heavier stirrups! <G>
> >
> YUP Thats right, I've seen her do it! ,<VBG> tee hee, geez tracy next
> you'll be telling us that Al uses your head as a place to set his beer
> too!!!!!!!
hey now, don't be spilling all my secrets!!! <G>
seriously now, what else to do....the stirrups are too short to throw
across the seat! And I swear, if one more stranger says "wow, I've
never seen stirrups that short before" I may get violent! <G>
On the other hand, I am getting pretty good at leaping on a moving, 15'2
horse from a 5 gallon bucket......
tracy
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From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
In-Reply-To: <34C7EDCD.3A48@idt.net> from Zebella at "Jan 22, 98 06:09:33 pm"
To: zebella@idt.net
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:21:03 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
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> seriously now, what else to do....the stirrups are too short to throw
> across the seat!
Sigh. I miss the horn on the Bighorn saddle. It was perfect
for hooking stirrups onto.
Maybe it would be possible to rig up some sort of leather
strap to hook the offside stirrup to, a bit like the
cinch strap, to hold it up while tacking up...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: Re: SS loin rubs---I know not again!!
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980121203642.00bc5510@mail.micoks.net> from Chris Paus at "Jan 21, 98 08:36:42 pm"
To: paus@micoks.net (Chris Paus)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:24:06 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
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> I second that on the sportsaddles. I thoroughly enjoyed riding in one I
> borrowed for a weekend. It was like riding on a pillow. But, the white
> marks on Star's back were worse AFTER the sports saddle.
Just a thought, but doesn't it take longer than a
weekend for white hairs to appear? Don't they need
long enough to be able to grow out white? (said Lucy,
looking sadly at her long hairs that start nice and brown
at the bottom, but are fashionably white at the top
where they are growing out...)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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Message-ID: <34C7EF53.5090B48C@cyberspy.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:16:03 -0500
From: "Frank W. Vans Evers" <vans@cyberspy.com>
Reply-To: vans@cyberspy.com
Organization: Frank's Repairs
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To: sumralls@gateway.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
References: <199801211928.NAA15693@server3.wans.net.>
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All you could want to know about ropes and much more, for anyone that
wants to research before buying...
http://www.dfw.net/~jazzman/knotter/Knotlbry.htm
-------------------------------
sumralls wrote:
>
> Idea for nonstretching rope for a picket line: Try REI (Recreational
> Equipment, Inc.). They carry quite a selection of mountain climbing ropes.
> You know they are built not to stretch -- we hope! I guess any "outdoor"
> type store should carry them. Also, whitewater kayakers use what they call
> a "throw bag" which contains a fabulous, high quality rope. This rope is
> used to haul swimmers out of a river. Sorry I can't estimate prices for
> you. Surely REI has a 1-800 number that you could find in 1-800-555-1212
> and they also have a catalog which contains both these items (and fabulous
> riding pants in addition made by Patagonia -- expensive but of extremely
> high quality.)
> Mountain climber's carabiners are also a good idea for attaching the lead
> rope to the picket.
> Good Luck
>
> Lori Sumrall
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Frank W. Vans Evers
mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
-------------------------------
sumralls wrote:
>
> Idea for nonstretchi6237 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002656 06461772642 0013132 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from pop1.cyberhighway.net (qmailr@pop1.cyberhighway.net [205.139.62.192]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03564 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:42:52 -0800 (PST)
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From: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
To: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Picklet Line Ropes
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:42:55 -0700
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Climbing ropes will stretch, they are designed to absorb the impact of a =
fall, rather than bring your body to an abrupt stop. Depending upon the =
manufacturer the lay and the weight of the fallee, they can stretch up =
to 10 - 25%. They do have a lot of resilience, and don't stretch =
permanently unless the fibers get broken. Because they typically have a =
tough outer shell, they are quite durable, but expensive. You'll find =
several of them in my tack box in spite of that <g>. The smaller 5-7 mm =
sizes come in quite handy.
Bruce (Who's fallen more than once)
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To: grs@theneteffect.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: SS loin rubs---I know not again!!
Message-ID: <19980123.090701.12702.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980121204247.31631Q-100000@consider.theneteffect.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:07:57 EST
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:45:58 -0600 (CST) "Glenda R. Snodgrass"
<grs@theneteffect.com> writes:
>> >Regarding the loin rubs : in talking to another competitor last
>fall,
>> >she was noticing loin hair rubs as her horse grew longer hair..they
>> >did not show up when he was slick and smooth...I can't remember if
>it
>> >was a Sport Saddle or not....had you considered this factor? Is he
>at
>
I ride with an Ortho-Flex Express. The loin rubs don't show up until
Spring, just before he really sheds. I have had them on three different
horses, every Spring. It's as if it simply makes them shed early there.
I have never had loin rubs in the Winter, no matter how heavy the coat.
Has anybody considered that the reason we never had loin rubs before
endurance was that our horse's rear ends weren't "chugging" side to side
in an extended trot?
I have used this saddle on four different horses, and have never gotten a
single point off for back soreness. (I vetted in to my first 50 with a
sore back from a jumping saddle)
Angie
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From: Mike Sofen <miksof7@gte.net>
To: "ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: wide gait in hind end
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:22:19 -0800
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Joe, I support your opinion with the careful measurements I've made =
while training. I'm lucky to board at a stable that is not only =
connected to over 40 miles of trail systems (in suburban Seattle no =
less), but we also have a 1/4 mile training track, so I can exactly =
determine speed vs distance vs heartrate. =20
I use a heart monitor during conditioning rides/sessions. At a medium =
trot (8-9mph), my horse will be at about 115 bpm (beats per minute). At =
a fast trot (12 mph), he'll be between 135 and 145 bpm. Moving to a =
medium canter (about 14-15mph), his rate will drop to 110-115, and he'll =
stay there nearly forever. If I move him down to a medium trot from a =
period of medium cantering, his rate RISES to about 140-150 and stays =
there a while (I have no explanation for that).
If I push him up a long steep hill at a canter or a trot, he'll peak out =
(about 216 bpm) more quickly at the canter. In both cases, however, =
once at the top, his rate recovers to about 110 in 60-90 seconds =
(depending on how hard we pushed and how many times we've gone up the =
hill).
When we go into an huge, ground covering extended (floating) trot, his =
rate goes way up - 150-170. Again, he can stay there for a long time, =
but clearly it takes its toll (respiration is the obvious indicator). I =
save that trot for those trail situations like mud or tricky ground.
Mike Sofen
Seattle, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Long [SMTP:jlong@mti.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 8:25 PM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:45:46 EST, Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com> wrote:
>The discussion of gaits got me thinking of a recently published book =
called
>"The Nature of Horses," by Stephen Budiansky. In a section on the =
mechanics of
>movement, the author says, "a medium trot is more energy efficient than =
a fast
>walk, and a medium canter is more energy efficient than a fast trot." =
He says
>that each gait has an optimal speed, which horses naturally tend to =
favor.
>"When traveling a these optimal speeds, the energy required to move a =
given
>distance is the same whether at the walk, trot, or gallop."
>In a way this makes sense, and yet, the implication is that a canter =
(at the
>optimal speed) could be an energy efficient gait. But surely the trot =
is the
>gait of choice for endurance? In reality, is the trot more energy =
efficient
>than the canter, at least for distances? Is it preferred because it can =
be
>sustained for a longer period of time?=20
Budiansky is right. The most efficient gait depends on the speed you
are travelling. Above a certain speed a canter uses less energy than
a trot. This speed is different for different horses. On a flat
trail I have cantered for 49 out of 50 miles.
You must also consider energy use per mile vs. energy use per minute
(or per hour). A gait that takes the energy use above a horse's
anaerobic threshold will tire him quickly. But the above is a reason
why both the horse and rider who finish at the end are often more
tired than those who finished up front. Walking reduces the energy
use per hour, but not the energy use per mile.
--=20
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
To: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Boarding an Endurance Horse
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:35:46 -0700
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I am offering this story, in the hopes that none of you get caught in =
the same situation I did. If you are in a situation where you have to =
board, be very careful that the facility is familiar with what your =
horse does. I found out the hard way that you can never bridge the gap =
between the needs of a horse being conditioned for endurance, and one =
that spends its whole life in an arena.=20
After boarding at a facility which deals mostly with show and roping =
horses for the last 9 months, Star now has a new home. After one of =
those "Its none of my business, but .... " lectures from the owners son, =
where I was informed how badly I was mismanaging my horse, "she =
shouldn't be fed any of that stuff (LMF Ener-G), all she needs is =
alfalfa", "you're going to explode her heart", "she'll colic on that =
much grain", "your vet doesn't know anything", "you're over working her, =
she's not in condition to be ridden that far", etc. I found out just how =
little my explanations of nutrition, energy requirements, fitness =
criteria, etc. had sunk in. All of the head shaking and OK's didn't mean =
that what you are explaining is being understood, there just isn't any =
way for them to relate. When I tried to explain to the owner, and =
suggested we sit down and discuss the situation, she went totally =
ballistic on me, and told me Star had to be gone that day (11:30 AM???). =
After many increasingly desperate phone calls, I finally found another =
boarding facility. This one has other endurance horses, knows a lot more =
about training and nutrition, and asked questions that led me to believe =
they actually understood. It's less convenient, but hopefully there =
won't be the same problems.
Based on this experience, I'll be a lot more willing to spend some extra =
dollars rather than have to cope with another situation like this.
Bruce (Arrrgh!!!) & Star ( You mean there's actually somebody here that =
will ride with me?)
Emmett, ID
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To: llayman@neorx.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: dogs at ride
Message-ID: <19980123.103505.12702.6.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <9800218854.AA885402255@imail.neorx.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:36:01 EST
On Wed, 21 Jan 98 08:57:10 PST llayman@neorx.com writes:
>
> SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com> wrote >>>p.s. more rides are not
>allowing
> dogs to attend. We like this.
>
My only gripe is a loose male dog hiking a leg on my hay. And you can
bet, if they are loose, they aim at every hay bale in camp. :-(
Angie
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To: mlaboure@flash.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stumbling
Message-ID: <19980123.103505.12702.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <34C73B2A.4231349@flash.net>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:36:00 EST
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:27:22 -0600 Bob & Amber Roberts
<mlaboure@flash.net> writes:
>Does anyone have problems with their horse stumbling, no matter the
>angle of the hoof? If so, what is the solution?
Check your saddle. Is it into his shoulder?. Are you balanced? Is your
weight all on his front end? If that's not a problem, maybe he's a
clutze. Some people are you know.
Angie
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Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:36:00 EST
>In reality, is the trot more energy efficient
>than the canter, at least for distances? Is it preferred because it
>can be
>sustained for a longer period of time?
>
Some horse's heart rates drop when they go into a canter, which means it
is requiring less effort, HOWEVER, it is inflicting lots of wear and tear
on the lead leg. That is why we prefer the trot. There are always two
feet on the ground and it spreads out the wear and tear.
Angie McGhee
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To: sumralls@gateway.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
Message-ID: <19980123.103505.12702.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:36:00 EST
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:44:37 -0500 "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
writes:
> I would like some input from people who know about or have
>tried the
>following pieces of tack:
> I need new stirrups. I am interested in something like the EZ
>Ride or
>Cloud stirrups. I've tried just about everything but these two.
>Could you
>all please fill me in on what you might know about the pros and cons
>of
>either of these. I have 1-inch stirrup leathers.
I LOVE MY E-Z RIDES. Every friend who has tried mine has bought their
own and loved them.
Angie McGhee
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To: cyndi.craig@chron.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Message-ID: <19980123.103505.12702.5.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:36:01 EST
>i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked
>to
>pay more than their fair share. if you calculate it on a per-mile
>basis,
>the 25s are $2.20 a mile, whereas the 75s are only 1.30 a
>mile...almost
>double for the 25s..
>
The ride manager's view":
It cost the same to mail your application, and pay for your sanctioning.
Your T-shirt cost the same.
There are just as many awards (at our ride) for the 25's.
We pay the same amount (per rider) for you to use the camp, whether you
stay or not.
We pay the same amount for your meal.
It cost the same to insure you.
Actually, don't think of it as paying by the mile. Think of it this way,
we charged a certain amount of money to let you and your horse come out
and ride "enough". You got "enough" a lot cheaper than the 100s got
"enough". You had a great weekend, visited with friends, enjoyed the
trails. The 100's did the same. Looks like you got a bargain.
Angie McGhee
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From: Mike Sofen <miksof7@gte.net>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: re: wide gait in hind end
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:55:10 -0800
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Joe, I support your opinion with the careful measurements I've made =
while training. I'm lucky to board at a stable that is not only =
connected to over 40 miles of trail systems (in suburban Seattle no =
less), but we also have a 1/4 mile training track, so I can exactly =
determine speed vs distance vs heartrate. =20
I use a heart monitor during conditioning rides/sessions. At a medium =
trot (8-9mph), my horse will be at about 115 bpm (beats per minute). At =
a fast trot (12 mph), he'll be between 135 and 145 bpm. Moving to a =
medium canter (about 14-15mph), his rate will drop to 110-115, and he'll =
stay there nearly forever. If I move him down to a medium trot from a =
period of medium cantering, his rate RISES to about 140-150 and stays =
there a while (I have no explanation for that).
If I push him up a long steep hill at a canter or a trot, he'll peak out =
(about 216 bpm) more quickly at the canter. In both cases, however, =
once at the top, his rate recovers to about 110 in 60-90 seconds =
(depending on how hard we pushed and how many times we've gone up the =
hill).
When we go into an huge, ground covering extended (floating) trot, his =
rate goes way up - 150-170. Again, he can stay there for a long time, =
but clearly it takes its toll (respiration is the obvious indicator). I =
save that trot for those trail situations like mud or tricky ground.
Mike Sofen
Seattle, WA
-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Long [SMTP:jlong@mti.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 8:25 PM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
On Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:45:46 EST, Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com> wrote:
>The discussion of gaits got me thinking of a recently published book =
called
>"The Nature of Horses," by Stephen Budiansky. In a section on the =
mechanics of
>movement, the author says, "a medium trot is more energy efficient than =
a fast
>walk, and a medium canter is more energy efficient than a fast trot." =
He says
>that each gait has an optimal speed, which horses naturally tend to =
favor.
>"When traveling a these optimal speeds, the energy required to move a =
given
>distance is the same whether at the walk, trot, or gallop."
>In a way this makes sense, and yet, the implication is that a canter =
(at the
>optimal speed) could be an energy efficient gait. But surely the trot =
is the
>gait of choice for endurance? In reality, is the trot more energy =
efficient
>than the canter, at least for distances? Is it preferred because it can =
be
>sustained for a longer period of time?=20
Budiansky is right. The most efficient gait depends on the speed you
are travelling. Above a certain speed a canter uses less energy than
a trot. This speed is different for different horses. On a flat
trail I have cantered for 49 out of 50 miles.
You must also consider energy use per mile vs. energy use per minute
(or per hour). A gait that takes the energy use above a horse's
anaerobic threshold will tire him quickly. But the above is a reason
why both the horse and rider who finish at the end are often more
tired than those who finished up front. Walking reduces the energy
use per hour, but not the energy use per mile.
--=20
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:06:31 -0500
Subject: Dogs at rides
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From: valsharpe@juno.com (Valerie K Sharpe)
I agree with Maryben Stover. We have several Australian Shepherds.
Occasionally when my husband has had to attend rides by himself (for one
reason or another) he has taken one of the dogs. Our dogs are all well
behaved and have been raised around horses. They aren't left to run all
over, they don't attend the riders meeting or dinner, and they stay in
the trailer when not with one of us. If everyone would do their best to
be responsible and look after their own dogs, kids, and horses then it
wouldn't give anyone else anything to complain about.
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:57:18 -0500
Subject: Dogs in Camp
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From: valsharpe@juno.com (Valerie K Sharpe)
I am responding to the last message I read from Wendy Milner regarding
Dogs and Children in camp. Although I do agree that SOME people are not
responsible with their dogs in camp, and I do wish those with ill-behaved
dogs would keep them home, I certainly hope that Wendy is not trying to
turn this DOG thing into a problem for people who bring their children!
I have two children who will attend rides with me and my husband. When
the children come one of us stays at basecamp with them while the other
rides. I believe theses rides should be fun and that they should be a
family affair. Besides we don't have any childcare person's who we would
trust with our kids for overnights and if the kids don't get to go then
either do I !
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From: JPascu <JPascu@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8cb4e818.34c81ae6@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:21:55 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
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Lucy;
When we are doing "belly lifts" we are actually doing a belly contraction. In
other words we are asking the rectus adominus muscle to reflexively contract.
This causes the pubic bone to move closer to the sternum which causes the hip
to rotate pulling on the back muscles. The hip rotating gives the appearance
of the back rising. It is not actually a back moving up reflex.
What happens, briefly, is: the pressure on the Rectuc, fires a "muscle spindle
fiber", this sends a message to the Central Nervous System, CNS, which is
reflexively channeled across the spine to contract the aprropriate motor unit.
This is similar to being handed a book that you think weighs, say, 5 pounds
only to have it weigh 10, your arm goes down a little until the stretch is
registered by the spindle fibers and more muscle is recruited reflexively.
(probably more than you ever wanted to know).
The fact that you horse doesn't "seem" to react to the pressure on the Rec.
Adom. may be because you are not engaging enough spindle fibers. It may also
be true that the horse is fixated in the pelvis. I would put one hand lightly
on the horses belly, around the navel, while using the other to crab up the
belly. You should feel the contracting muscle in the monitoring hand at the
navel.
The same type of reflex is producible if you work on the hamstrings on either
side of the tail, these pull the sacrum down and back causes a pull on the
Longisumus Dorsi.
While this is a useful exercise it should be accompanied by passive stretching
of all of the involved soft tissue. Whenever we contract a muscle there is
always a residue of the contraction remaining that needs to be stretched out.
If you like I can send you some recommended stretches.
The feeding the treat to one side or the other is very useful. I use this to
evaluate my horse's flexibility, the movement should be round, like the horse
is bending around a beach ball. I also like to square them up in front first
and assur ethey can get the treat off their hips without moving a leg.
hope this wasn't confusing
jim pascucci
Certified Advanced Rolfer
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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:32:54 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
CC: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Boarding an Endurance Horse
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Bruce Murdock wrote:
>
> I am offering this story, in the hopes that none of you get caught in the same situation I did. If you are in a situation where you have to board, be very careful that the facility is familiar with what your horse does. I found out the hard way that you can never bridge the gap between the needs of a horse being conditioned for endurance, and one that spends its whole life in an arena.
Bruce,
I don't understand? Why would one have to be "careful" where they board
their horse? I board at a stable that is full of Hunter/jumper and
Dressage people with a few western thrown in. My horse is in "training"
with the dressage gal. She takes care of the ring work while I
concentrate on the trail work. Never had a problem, though I do wish I
had some endurance friends to hang out with.
Lauren
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From: Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <d240f722.34c82070@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:45:34 EST
To: Bierstedt@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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In a message dated 98-01-22 06:02:51 EST, Bierstedt@aol.com writes:
> The discussion of gaits got me thinking of a recently published book called
> "The Nature of Horses," by Stephen Budiansky. In a section on the mechanics
> of
> movement, the author says, "a medium trot is more energy efficient than a
> fast
> walk, and a medium canter is more energy efficient than a fast trot." He
> says
> that each gait has an optimal speed, which horses naturally tend to favor.
> "When traveling a these optimal speeds, the energy required to move a given
> distance is the same whether at the walk, trot, or gallop."
>
The zoologist who conducted the treadmill studies cited in this book made
another interesting discovery: That horses shift from a trot to a gallop not
at a fixed speed or degree of effort, but when "the peak forces on their legs
reached a certain critical level," in other words, when they felt a certain
degree of impact on their legs as they struck the ground. The scientist
compared the force required to break a cannon bone to the force of this
impact, and found it to be a factor of three. His conclusion is that shifting
from a trot to a gallop was the horses' way of minimizing the risk of injury.
An interesting book! You can get it from amazon.com at a good discount.
Linda
San Francisco
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <sumralls@gateway.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:39:01 -0800
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Lori -
Everybody else has already beat you up on this one, so I've just got to ask
if pickleing the rope may be the key?
Sorry, I had to say it.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: sumralls <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 12:00 AM
Subject: Picklet Line Ropes
>Idea for nonstretching rope for a picket line: Try REI (Recreational
>Equipment, Inc.). They carry quite a selection of mountain climbing ropes.
> You know they are built not to stretch -- we hope! I guess any "outdoor"
>type store should carry them. Also, whitewater kayakers use what they call
>a "throw bag" which contains a fabulous, high quality rope. This rope is
>used to haul swimmers out of a river. Sorry I can't estimate prices for
>you. Surely REI has a 1-800 number that you could find in 1-800-555-1212
>and they also have a catalog which contains both these items (and fabulous
>riding pants in addition made by Patagonia -- expensive but of extremely
>high quality.)
>Mountain climber's carabiners are also a good idea for attaching the lead
>rope to the picket.
>Good Luck
>
>Lori Sumrall
>
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Lampley's Basic Mineral
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:56:19 -0800
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What is so dangerous about ivermectin? And if you use strongid (with which I
have no problem), what are you going to use as boticide instead of
ivermectin, an organophosphate perhaps? Compare the safety margins of
organophosphates with ivermectin.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Dorothy Beebe <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
>Does anyone use this product?
>
>I'm leaning towards a daily wormer (Strongid), but am still doing some
>research to be sure before buying this or anything else. From what I
>understand, their Basic Mineral is diatomaceous earth.
>
>The reason for the change is twofold: 1) Ivermectin is just too dangerous,
>in my opinion; and, 2) I want to keep my mare's winter weight on her this
>season, if at all possible. So I want her to utilize as much of her food
>as possible.
>
>dorothy & elly
>taylorsville, ca
>
>
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From: PEGGASIS <PEGGASIS@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a88d58d6.34c825c1@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:08:15 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: 2-Day 100's
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What's the big deal. Some riders like to enter the 2-day 100 and finish in top
ten or get points in their weight divisions, than to compete with 100 or so
riders in a 50 and end up middle of the pack.
Peggie Norton
Las Vegas Distance Riders
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From: Bruce Murdock <bmurdock@cyberhighway.net>
To: "'fourhorn@fea.net'" <fourhorn@fea.net>
Cc: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Boarding an Endurance Horse
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:12:43 -0700
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Lauren:
I think what I ran into was a lack of understanding of what she is =
expected to do. These are people that basically spend their whole time =
in an arena, and can't relate to the conditioning and nutritional =
differences between their sport and mine. The idea of riding more than a =
few miles at a walk just doesn't make sense to them. I really made an =
effort to explain her energy & nutritional requirements (the best I =
understand them anyway <g>), but I guess what I consider a maintenance =
level, they consider an extreme. I really don't understand why it hit =
now, I thought we had a pretty good relationship.
I have a real problem accepting that a horse that can do 17 miles in =
under 2 hours with a pulse of 86, recovers to 60 within 3 minutes, and =
does a 17/17 CRI 10 minutes later is out of condition or is suffering =
any ill effects. Yes, she was sweaty when we got back, but there wasn't =
a speck of lather and you'd sweat too with a heavy winter coat <g>. I =
seem to remember having to hold her back, not push her. But I guess all =
they see is a sweaty horse, and in their world that relates to a =
problem.
Anyway, I think its something that should be considered when you =
evaluate a facility. Hopefully, what I encountered is the exception and =
not the rule and nobody else will ever have to go through the hassles I =
did on this one.
Bruce
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From: Tivers <Tivers@aol.com>
Message-ID: <74619a2b.34c82e85@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:45:38 EST
To: miksof7@gte.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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In a message dated 98-01-22 22:40:25 EST, miksof7@gte.net writes:
<< I save that trot for those trail situations like mud or tricky ground.
Mike Sofen >>
Great post on heartates/gait, Mike.
ti
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Message-ID: <34C8313D.89327239@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:57:18 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stumbling
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> walked, trotted and cantered her over rough trail---nothing dangerous,
> just lots of little erosion ditches, rocks, logs, up hill, down dale, and
> no fair hanging back in Cato's shadow. I crashed her through every bush I
> could find, but always gave her a "way out" if she would just look for it
> and take it. Pretty soon she started figuring out she better start paying
> attention. Now she's a little mountain goat.
I could really relate to Susan's description here. One of our favorite games
is to go cross-country through desert sagebrush and try to "out-guess" which
way is the best path. I may lean left, Gabe may go right. It's a game to see
who will "indicate" the next upcoming turn. This all happens at lightening
speed, as just trotting through sagebrush, let alone loping through it,
demands constant split-second decisions!
It's really fun,and lends itself to a closer communication with your horse.
He may finally understand why leg yeilds are so important! And, Gabe has
come to trust that MY way around that bush might actually be the wise
choice! (hidden rocks, gaping holes, inconsistency in trail is all better
seen from the saddle~~I admit~~I cheat!)
And, it's kind of like powder skiing in the trees, fluid, smooth, but a
constant challenge! (and you don't have to worry about plowing into a
tree!)
--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe ~~ But, you didn't tell them we do that in the
forests, too!
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Message-ID: <34C83486.BF4FCF4@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:11:18 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
CC: zebella@idt.net, ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
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> Sigh. I miss the horn on the Bighorn saddle. It was perfect for hooking
> stirrups onto.
>
> Maybe it would be possible to rig up some sort of leather strap to hook
> the offside stirrup to, a bit like the
> cinch strap, to hold it up while tacking up...
I thought I would miss the horn terribly, too, when I bought my BOZ, but
the only thing I miss is the horn in my sternum! Try a velcro strap hung
from a ring to quickly (and safely!!) run the stirrup up.--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe ~~ Yeah, right, but you mostly just throw it
over your sholder!
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
See the BOZ saddle here:
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/5157/boz.htm
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Message-ID: <34C835FD.E40F937@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:17:33 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
References: <01BD2765.B28235E0@ts2-02.boi.cyberhighway.net>
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> Climbing ropes will stretch, they are designed to absorb the impact of a fall, rather than bring your body to an abrupt stop. Depending upon the manufacturer the lay and the weight of the fallee, they can stretch up to 10 - 25%. They do have a lot of resilience, and don't stretch permanently unless the fibers get broken. Because they typically have a tough outer shell, they are quite durable, but expensive.
Yes, as new they are expensive, but as a used climbing rope~~very cheap! Once a climbing rope is no longer used for same, it is as good as garbage. Go to your local climbing community and I'm sure you'll find many a rope that has held one too many falls, and be able to pick it up for a song.
And yes, I do use my old climbing rope for a picket line in the backcountry. Doesn't seem to stretch too much as a used rope. Also, tie the line with a hitch in it to be able to take up slack without retying the whole line.
--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe ~~ Gee, Mom, glad you made my PVC corral so I don't have to hang on the picket line at rides anymore!
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
0 (PST)
Message-ID: <34C835FD.E40F937@geocities.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 22:17:33 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2810f219.34c86a83@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 05:01:36 EST
To: llayman@neorx.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: dogs at ride
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In a message dated 98-01-22 03:52:25 EST, you write:
<< That's not fair. What about those of us with well trained dogs who are
not a nuisance. My dog is crate-trained, so he either sleeps in his
crate during the ride, or in the back of my truck. He does not bark,
and when I take him out for walks, I take him away from the camp and
make a point to avoid horse contact. He is always on a leash and I
clean up after him. The problem I run into is those people who have
their dogs running around loose. I don't want to be penalised for the
negligence of other dog owners. I can't afford to pay for a kennel for
four days. I have a horse. >>
I agree with you here Linda!!! My German shepherd, River, is the best
mannered dog in the world. He doesn't bark at other people, dogs, horses, he
doensn't chase them, he naver bothers any other dogs (unless the bother him
first)--he stays right by my camping area, even if he isn't tied--and he LOVES
coming camping with me. It does seem sad that River has to be penalized for
the actions of other people who do not or will not teach their dogs manners.
He does not do kennels well. So if I ever have to go to a camp where dogs are
not welcome, I leave him at the home of a good friend who babysits him for me.
This works ok, but it costs money (I pay my friend of course) and I miss my
River-dog!
Trish & "pretty David" & River
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From: Phnatasha <Phnatasha@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a1e1ed7.34c87ff9@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:33:11 EST
To: PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: need saddle web sites.
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In a message dated 98-01-23 03:50:56 EST, PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com writes:
<< 'm still collecting lots of information on saddles. Now I need to
figure out where the distributors are and if the manufacturers have
websites. If you know the url's of any of them, could you email me
privately. I've used the search engines to look up either the names or
saddle and I'm not getting anywhere fast!!!
I'm looking for:
SR Enduro
>>
I don't believe Steve has a website... I ride in one of his saddles and LOVE
it! Have had it for 3 years... if you'd like any info... let me know...
Patti
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by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id IcG11638; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:08:38 EST
To: elsie@calweb.com
Cc: bluwolf@earthlink.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Falling off of cliffs
Message-ID: <19980123.200701.3390.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801230037.QAA01883@web2.calweb.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.15
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:08:38 EST
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:37:18 -0800 (PST) Lucy C Trumbull
<elsie@calweb.com> writes:
>> We noticed that most folks leaned <away> from the edge. Think of
>the
>> following scenario:
>> Cliff to the right
>> Solid mountain to the left.
>>
>> Rider leans to mountain/to the left. His/her left seat bone is now
>more
>> weighted and pushes the horse to the right, TOWARDS the edge. Poor
>> horse is being told to side pass off the side of the mountain and he
>> probably thinks the rider is crazy.
>
I Disagree. I just got on my knees and had my 7 yr old daughter ride my
back. When she leans left, I stagger left, when she leans right I weave
to the right. I have to stay under her weight or I fall. The seat bone
theory didn't work.
When you do leg yields, I was told, lean in the direction that you want
the horse to go.
Angie McGhee
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e640ce3c.34c89de5@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:40:51 EST
To: mlaboure@flash.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stumbling
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In a message dated 98-01-22 08:02:42 EST, you write:
<< Does anyone have problems with their horse stumbling, no matter the
angle of the hoof? If so, what is the solution? >>
Certain conformations due predispose a horse to stumbling. In particular, a
long arm (humerous--runs from the point of the elbow to the point of the
shoulder) relative to the length of the shoulder. The horse's forelegs look
"set back" behind the chest.
My David is built somewhat like this, and he is prone to stumbling. What has
helped me: on the forehooves, keeping the heel a little long relative to the
toe, and dressage--teaching him to "lift" that forehand. Also, riding on
rough ground so he learns to watch where he is putting his feet!!!
Trish & "pretty David"
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Message-ID: <34C8A42B.15A8AB97@flash.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:07:39 -0600
From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
Organization: Manuel LaBoure Ranch
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Subject: Snaffle or riding halter
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Several people have responded to my question about the horse that
stumbles. Some have suggested shorter toes, rocker toes, changing
angles, etc. (I've already done all that), plus vet checking. Another
said I should put him in a snaffle and maintain contact. I've been
thinking about buying a riding halter from Pat Fredrickson for another
horse I have. To help this horse over his stumbles, should I put him in
a snaffle, curb bit, or is the riding halter a good choice? Any advice
is appreciated. Thanks.
Amber
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Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:56:36 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:56:34 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: sumralls <sumralls@gateway.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: ride food
In-Reply-To: <199801222114.PAA01942@server3.wans.net.>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.96.980123065413.1499B-100000@delta1.deltanet.com>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, sumralls wrote:
> The best drink I've found is called UltraFeul. The grape flavor
> tastes like real grape juice, not real salty. It was recommended to me by
> a friend who's a marathon runner. It's the only thing that keeps me
> hydrated well. But I must say, there's nothing quite like a good old
> Coca-cola at a vet check.
While Coca-cola may taste good, it is a diuritic an will not help you
hyrdrate, but rather cause further dehydration (by making you pee away all
your fluids). Not to say that you shouldn't drink Coke, but rather that
doing so is not going to help your hydration level so don't count it as
part of your "fluid" intake...if you count such things.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Message-ID: <34C8AF2E.682D@idt.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:54:38 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
References: <199801230121.RAA05605@web1.calweb.com>
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Lucy C Trumbull wrote:
>
> > seriously now, what else to do....the stirrups are too short to throw
> > across the seat!
> Maybe it would be possible to rig up some sort of leather
> strap to hook the offside stirrup to, a bit like the
> cinch strap, to hold it up while tacking up...
>
Hmmm, I'm much too lazy to do that, and I'm afraid that my head is just
the perfect height......
tracy
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From: QAGJ20A@prodigy.com (MRS TERESA M FINNERTY)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:58:52, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Looking for skyrider saddle
With all the survey information on saddles would anybody have
something on skyrider saddles all I have is the company Skyhorse. I
would like to see a picture of this saddle pros & cons versus o/f
saddles. I would like the www site with a picture.
The one of many on the mad saddle hunt.
____
Teresa
Nanjo Morgans and the Arab that wants a saddle to fit a saddle rack
not him.
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Reply-To: <mpirtle@wf.net>
From: "too late for ice cream" <mpirtle@wf.net>
To: "Amber Roberts" <mlaboure@flash.net>
Cc: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Fw: Snaffle or riding halter
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:20:27 -0600
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Amber,
I would try the snaffle and spurs. I know the horse was ridden with spurs
before you got him. You could put the landscape timbers on your track and
ride him over them so he'll pick up his front end.
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:18:55 -0500
To: valsharpe@juno.com (Valerie K Sharpe), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dogs in Camp
In-Reply-To: <19980122.230828.3294.2.ValSharpe@juno.com>
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Hi all,
Heres how I can see this solved. I know people that have well
behaved dogs and people that have well behaved children in camp, and
visa versa. I think everyone should be given a chance but once the
kids/dogs are outta control they should then be told to stay at
home. Kids/dogs should behave and it is the owners/parents
fault if they don't. So if you can't keep your changes in line
don't punish us other campers. Thanks, just my thought.
Julie, who has a good little sheltie.
At 10:57 PM 1/22/98 -0500, Valerie K Sharpe wrote:
>I am responding to the last message I read from Wendy Milner regarding
>Dogs and Children in camp. Although I do agree that SOME people are not
>responsible with their dogs in camp, and I do wish those with ill-behaved
>dogs would keep them home, I certainly hope that Wendy is not trying to
>turn this DOG thing into a problem for people who bring their children!
>I have two children who will attend rides with me and my husband. When
>the children come one of us stays at basecamp with them while the other
>rides. I believe theses rides should be fun and that they should be a
>family affair. Besides we don't have any childcare person's who we would
>trust with our kids for overnights and if the kids don't get to go then
>either do I !
>
>
>
Julie R.Coats, A.H.T.
Cardiac Research Technician
NCSU College of Veterinary Medicine
julie_coats@ncsu.edu
919 829-4325
fax 919 515-9427
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:26:11 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Kim <aliakey@geocities.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods (Grains)
In-Reply-To: <34C791EF.6298@geocities.com>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Kim wrote:
> Sugar beet provides a lot of sugar to the US, and so the byproduct of
> molasses you may be feeding your horse is probably from this source.
> Unfortunately (which is probably why I'm unofficial), I do not have any
> hard numbers about the % of molasses from cane and from sugar beet. Just
According to the _Encyclopaedia Britanica_ (and information source that I
consider to be eminently reliable)
"molasses, syrup remianinag after sugar is cristalized out of cane or beet
juice...Cane molasses usually contains about 14 percent invert sugar, a
mixture of glucose and fructose, compared with about 1 percent in beet
molasses."
No that wasn't a typo, that's ONE percent in beet molasses.
Which leads to the very real question. What is all the other stuff that
is contained in molasses??? Everything else that is in the sugar
cane/beet besides sugar (which has been processed out). Presumably this
is all the vitamins, minerals, etc. that the plant picked up from the soil
while it was growing.
To know whether molasses is good food for horses one needs to look WAY
beyond its sugar content.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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From: CATUNDERWD <CATUNDERWD@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:31:47 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Portable Stalls
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First, I would like to thank everyone who responded to my original post. I
received lots of great information and, like everything else in this forum,
what works for one may not work for another. I've decided on the Safety Fence
from Custom Iron Workers largely based on endorsements from ridecampers (Brad
especially) and after talking to Monty (the manufacturer). I think this
system will work best for me.
Also, I will be in Phoenix visiting my parents the same time as the Scottsdale
Arabian show (coincidence? :>), and the Florida Classic will be my FIRST ride.
Any ridecampers who will be going to either event please e-mail me privately.
I would love to put faces with the names!!
Thanks again to all who responded.
Cathy
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:33:03 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Valerie K Sharpe <valsharpe@juno.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
In-Reply-To: <19980122.230828.3294.2.ValSharpe@juno.com>
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> I am responding to the last message I read from Wendy Milner regarding
> Dogs and Children in camp. Although I do agree that SOME people are not
> responsible with their dogs in camp, and I do wish those with ill-behaved
> dogs would keep them home, I certainly hope that Wendy is not trying to
> turn this DOG thing into a problem for people who bring their children!
> I have two children who will attend rides with me and my husband. When
> the children come one of us stays at basecamp with them while the other
> rides. I believe theses rides should be fun and that they should be a
> family affair. Besides we don't have any childcare person's who we would
> trust with our kids for overnights and if the kids don't get to go then
> either do I !
I'm okay with rides being a family affair -- as long as I can bring MY
family too, my dog Bailey. (I don't mind leaving the snakes at home, as
they don't travel well anyway.) She's clean, neat, quiet, well-behaved,
and under my control at all times, no matter where we are.
Some people don't like dogs. I can understand and live with that. I
personally don't like children. However, I am willing to tolerate your
well-behaved children at camp if you are willing to tolerate my well-behaved
dog. :))
The Snodgrass Family
Glenda, Lakota (equine) & Bailey (canine)
Ruby, Charlie, Jerry & Wilson (serpentine)
In Memory Of: Simon & Sarafina (lizardine)
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:40:51 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: HELFTER 77 <HELFTER77@aol.com>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods
In-Reply-To: <1cd76759.34c75a0a@aol.com>
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On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, HELFTER 77 wrote:
> Sources of Foods
>
> For those who did not read past "sugar is bad for horses" I am re-posting the
> remains of that paragraph and the following paragraph for reiteration.
> Please keep in mind that poor quality grains are hidden in sweet feeds. This
> is a fact. The feed industry has a bad habit of using our animals as garbage
> disposals. Sweet and pelleted feeds are great for covering up that garbage.
I was quite careful in my post to state that what I was objecting to was
the statement about sugar being bad for horses and that I was "refusing to
enter the fray" about whether sweet feeds were good horse feed because of
their molasses content.
There may be many reasons for not feeding molasses to horses but "sugar is
bad for horses" is not one of them.
The point I was trying to make is that the actual statement "sugar is bad
for horses" and the implication that "molasses contains alot of sugar"
(and therefore is bad for horses) are misleading.
Sugar is not bad for horses, it is a staple of life and absolutely
essential for horses with heavy energy demands.
Molasses does not contain huge quantities of sugar...the apples, carrots,
and corn that are staples of a many a horse's diet may easily contain
quite a bit more (according to the nutritional analysis on my bag of
carrots, one medium carrot contains about 8.5% sugar).
And I was concerned that someone describing herself as "President of
Advanced Biological Concepts" would be taken seriously about the "sugar is
bad for horses" thing and people would therefore be afraid to feed their
horses anything with sugar in it.
The simple biological concept (I learned it in Biology 1 at UCLA) is that
sugar is not bad it is, in fact, the only thing that the body uses for
fuel.
How the body gets that fuel is a different question entirely (which I also
stated in my previous post). Just because the body needs sugar doesn't
mean that the body needs to be fed sugar. The body is capable of
synthesizing sugar. How best to provide our horses with sugar is an
extremely complex problem...and it doesn't do any (or at least not much)
good to look at what horses "naturally" eat to keep themselves going,
since their natural energy demands are significantly less than those we
put on our horses at and endurance ride.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:57:38 -0600
From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
Organization: Manuel LaBoure Ranch
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My husband uses a VMax heart monitor which seems to be working well, has
new batteries. But it loses contact with the horse! Is there a better
place to put it on the horse, or is there a better salve to maintain
contact. Thanks for info.
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From: JPascu <JPascu@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e640c14d.34c8be13@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:58:07 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Stumbling
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Bob & Amber Roberts wrote:
>
> Does anyone have problems with their horse stumbling, no matter the
> angle of the hoof? If so, what is the solution? >>
Stumbling is really an interesting and complex issue. I wonder what causes it
when I am walking down the carpeted hall and "catch" a foot. As a body
therapist I can come up with all sorts of reasons, some fairly exotic.
The issue has to be broken down more to analyze it. For the horse there are
obviously four feet that could stumble, as well as the rider and tack and
shoeing angles that could be responsible. The first cut at analysis, to me,
would be is the stumbling ocurring on the same foot. If not, then it fits a
random pattern and may be caused by in attention, (I, of course am not subject
to this problem), or rider imbalance ... If it is always the same foot then we
may want to look at the structure and see if there is some issue there. ie.
hoof angles, rotated illia, high shoulder, carpus not fully extending ...
There is another "inattention" cause, this is a "block" in the joints'
proprioception, so that the nervous system has "lost" touch with it's knowing
where everything is. Linda Tellington has an aid for this. Simple find the
offending foot and tap on it with a hoof pick, rock, hammer or your cell
phone, tap all over the hoof, from the coronet to the shoe, and even the sole.
The theory is that this added input will wake up the system. ( My wife is
trying it on me in the morning, just kidding). Working the horse over
caveletti's and ground poles helps with teaching them to get out of the way.
If the horse hits a pole, go over and tap that foot immediately and do it
again.
Please be sure that your tack is not restricting a shoulder or something.
Also, if it's not a "random" event, each foot having equal chance at
stumbling, consult with your DVM.
jim pascucci
Certified Advanced Rolfer
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:03:54 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
Subject: To Be Or Not To Be...
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Lauren - Ray Hunt says that if you happen to have a horse that doesn't
present you with any problems consider him a rare gift and don't assume
that "no problems" is the norm!
As I work through the issues my relationship with my horse presents me
with, I think of all the people relationships in my life and remind myself
that none of them are problem-free and that it takes a lot of work to keep
any relationship healthy, thriving and developing.
But...physical problems are one things and mental issues are another. You
didn't describe what you're dealing with. Physical limitations keep a lot
of horses out of endurance - its not for the weak of body or mind! But, to
me (and I speak from personal experience), the biggest problems are a
mis-match between horse and rider personalities and lack of good training
for horse and rider. Even though I have ridden for many years, it was all
"by the seat of my pants," and, in order to deal with my strong and
disrespectful horse, I had to go back to ground zero and learn horsemanship
and riding from the beginning. As I learn and understand, he improves!
If you have kids, remember horses are a lot like 2 and 3 year old
toddlers, or puppies.
One of the greatest lessons I have learned from my horse is to enjoy the
process and not get obsessed with "goals."
Happy trails, Laney
>X-From_: ridecamp@endurance.net Thu Jan 22 02:46:34 1998
>Resent-From: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:28:20 -0800 (PST)
>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 22:22:50 -0800
>From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
>Reply-To: fourhorn@fea.net
>To: Ridecamp Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: To Be Or Not To Be...
>Resent-Message-ID: <"fONHq2.0.JW4.YQknq"@starfish>
>X-Mailing-List: <ridecamp@endurance.net> archive/latest/6162
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>
>I am having a hard time with my horse right now. We are going through
>some problems and I keep thinking, " Will she make a good endurance
>horse or not?"
>
>I would like to hear any success stories and not so successful stories
>of horses and prospects and hard work, training, therapy etc...Did you
>eventually give up on your horse after a lot of hard work?...or...Did
>your horse turn into a wonderful endurance horse after thinking they
>would never cut it?
>
>Lauren
>
>
>
training
for horse and rider. Even t6277 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002522 06462141641 0013114 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from otter.mbay.net (root@otter.mbay.net [206.40.79.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA19980 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:21:44 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:16:58 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
Subject: Belly Lifts
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If you aren't sure your horse can lift its back, watch the back when the
horse poops! Most endurance horses are very stiff backed because of arab
conformation and because they don't get asked to use their hind ends under
them very much. A stiff backed horse can still raise its back but may take
longer to learn to do it "on command" as well as while pooping. And, until
the horse learns to use its hindquarters more, and any soreness issues in
the back have been attended to, it probably won't lift its back very far -
like an inch or so, you really have to watch to see it.
Cheers, Laney
PS asking the horse to raise its back, either from below or on the rump, is
really good!
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:21:57 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
Subject: Stumbling
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Some pigeon toed horses trip themselves and stumble. Most horses improve
through schooling and good riding as they learn to use their entire bodies
correctly. Laney
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From: MARDIP <MARDIP@aol.com>
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:15:03 EST
To: bluwolf@earthlink.net, ssolis@lg.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: wide gait in hind end
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My gelding has this kind of trot too. Riding partners need to gallop to keep
up. Always gets comments. <g> Trying to sit it or even post to it is a
challenge though. Like getting catapulted out of the saddle. Found my best
bet is just standing to it.
Mardi & Charlie ("but Mom, I'm still trotting")
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <3a0e6347.34c8cc2c@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:58:18 EST
To: esppatty@Juno.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: hiking boots
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Does anyone ou there ride in those Crossriders? I have a pair and i LOVE them
but I haven't ridden in them yet. They seem rather cumbersome.
san
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:08:18 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jacqueline Mansfield <jaxson@leopard.com>
Subject: Re: Falling off of cliffs
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>I Disagree. I just got on my knees and had my 7 yr old daughter ride my
>back. When she leans left, I stagger left, when she leans right I weave
>to the right. I have to stay under her weight or I fall. The seat bone
>theory didn't work.
>
>When you do leg yields, I was told, lean in the direction that you want
>the horse to go.
Erin McChesney (sp?) spoke at the MRER convention last Spring and she
talked about your horse responding to your seat bones the way a floatable
ball would if you were sitting on it in a swimming pool. If you lean to the
left the ball would shoot out from under you to the right and if you leaned
back the ball would shoot forward, and so forth. I don't remember her words
exactly but I thought it was something to the affect that you "open your
horse up" or "free your horse" to go the opposite direction of your weight.
I don't claim to be very knowledgable in Dressage, seat bones, or etc, but
this is one of the things I remembered from her lecture.
Jacqueline Mansfield and Winza, who prefers running with his nose fully
extended to dropping his head, being on the bit and rounding his back <sigh>
ance.net>; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:13:28 -0700
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <41e294c.34c8d021@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:15:09 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
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Okay - I know a way to have everyone fell really good about the fees at rides
AND the really tough job RMs have in planning these rides for us to enjoy - go
to a rated Arabian or Saddlebred show. Check out their costs and don't forget
to count trainers fees. monthly training fees, stall fees, office fee
(whatever the heck THAT is - new in 1989), tarnsport fees, 'handling fees (now
that you have paid for your horse to be traiend ALL MONTH, you ALSO get to pay
for the traienr to now HANDLE you horse), etc. You get my drift? Trust me, you
will come aaway thinking "Oh my goodness gracious sakes alive! How LUCKY I am!
ANd how much more FUN I have!" Just a thought. Let me know who goes.
san
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From: "Linnea Skoglund" <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
To: sumralls@gateway.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:24:40 +0000
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Subject: Re: need advice about tack
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Can you stand another post on EZ stirrups? I have EZ stirrups and
will never part with them. I had them on my Wintec (1" leathers) and
now have them on my Sharon Saare. They are the best stirrup I have
ever used. No more "sleeping" feet or pain (especially since I broke
my foot!). My only suggestion would be to consider the cages. My
trainer always nags me about that (I don't have cages).
But I agree with everyone about the weight. Sure is fun trying to
carry the saddle without banging my shins. I have tried putting the
stirrups over the top. They stay in place, but are leaving terrible
marks on the softer leather seat. Any suggestions out there in
email land on how to handle the saddle equiped with EZ stirrups so as
not to damage the saddle or me?
Linnea & Pesadilla (just don't let those heavy counterweights hit me
in the sides!)
****************************************************
Linnea G. Skoglund, Ph.D.
Dept. Bioagricultural Sciences and Pest Management
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
970.491.6950
970.491.3862 (fax)
skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu
****************************************************
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <726802cb.34c8ced3@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:09:37 EST
To: valsharpe@JUNO.COM, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs in Camp
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In a message dated 98-01-23 03:25:18 EST, you write:
<< I certainly hope that Wendy is not trying to
turn this DOG thing into a problem for people who bring their children!
I have two children who will attend rides with me and my husband. When
the children come one of us stays at basecamp with them while the other
rides. I believe theses rides should be fun and that they should be a
family affair. >>
I think the point was that the CONTROl of dogs can become a hazard, and if one
person brings their dog, how does a ride manager tell the rest "gee, you can't
bring yours because I don't know how you would control him." Obviously
children are different in several respects, most obvious is that they don't
drink out of the horses' water and they don't pee on your hay :) (not yet,
anyway!) It is incredibly much easier to correct someone's child than their
dog. Of course, our girls had better mind their p's and q's if they want to do
THEIR thing the NEXT weekend, and so there is a level of "Surveillance" as it
were. And just a note on the subject of those really well-trained horses
whose owners think it is really cute to let them follow them around at the
rides with no restraint at all - no halter no nothing...to keep the horse form
wandering over to greet my stallion, who is duly decured and peaceful - until
visited by Mr. Freedom or Ms. Fancyfree. well, it IS cute - at home but it can
be scary anywhere else. I think the bottom line here is - kids, horses or
dogs, a certain level of security must be requied of owners/parents, etc for
the safety of all - and indeed, for the comfort of all. Not wanting dogs
running loose should never be misconstrued as hating dogs. On the contrary, we
love our dogs enough to protect them as well. TIA!
s
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 11:41:42 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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Can anyone tell me the correct address for mailing the AERC Membership Form?
How do I go about registering my horse to accumulate mileage credit? There is nothing on
the membership form to indicate any such thing.
Dee
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: rburgess@slonet.org (robyn burgess)
Subject: Re: need saddle web sites.
Web site for SR Enduro -
http://www.nhdid.com/sr-saddleco
Robyn Burgess
Atascadero, CA
> I'm looking for:
>
> SR Enduro
> >>
>
>I don't believe Steve has a website... I ride in one of his saddles and LOVE
>it! Have had it for 3 years... if you'd like any info... let me know...
>Patti
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:03:18 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801231803.KAA28881@fsr.com>
Subject: Cost of sanctioning
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Brenda
Email: limnos@junction.net
I have a simple query that I have not had a response from AERC on.
Can somebody tell me what it costs to sanction a ride with AERC? I understand there is also a starting rider fee?
What does it cost to sanction a limited distance ride?
I.E. How much does ride management have to pay AERC to run a ride???
Thanks,
Brenda
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:24:01 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
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Organization: Plough Electric
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: TB Mag aritcle Nov/Dec97
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Did anyone out there get this magazine? They skipped mine and the
Jan/Feb98 refers to a saddle fitting article part 1 I'd really like to
read. Maybe someone would be willing to copy and fax/mail it over? Let
me know in private please, I sure would appreciate it!
In the TB mag I just received last night (Jan/Feb98) the saddle
conformation article is very good, but states that the stirrups on an
english saddle are placed too far forward on the tree, where the most
strength is, so balance cannot be obtained!?! I can't believe thats
true. Comments?
Thanks so much!
Kimberly
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:32:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: TB Mag aritcle Nov/Dec97
To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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Hi- In the note from the editor on the last page of the Jan/Feb issue, she
states that there was no Nov/Dec issue and that everybody's subscription will
be extended by 1 issue. The first saddle fitting article was in the previous
issue. Take that info about english saddles with a big grain of salt-it
depends on the saddle and on the individual who is riding in it. There are
plenty of people riding in english saddles who are perfectly balanced. -Amy
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:23:30 -0600
From: trishd@softthought.com (Trish Dutton)
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To: bmurdock@cyberhighway.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Bruce,
I have boarded my endurance horse at two different facilities. I had
been at the first facility when I did reining - left shortly after I
started endurance because of problems similar to that which you
described. My mare was not getting adequate turn out, all horses
(regardless of use) were on basically the same feed, and I had to feed
any supplements myself (I mean literally to be there every feeding if I
wanted any supplements!)- and this was a full care facility. I think
the problem at this barn was, not only the lack of knowledge about the
sport, but the large number of animals they had on the place.
The barn that I moved to is a much smaller facility. I am open and
honest with the owners about my horse's needs and they work with me on
supplying them. For instance, I provide small baggies of supplements
that they give at feeding time, they feed exactly what I ask them to,
and my mare gets turned out in a 20 acre pasture even on days when the
show horses wouldn't be caught dead outside. At first they thought I
was nuts, I think, for the nutritional requirements and the conditioning
- but after several months, they realized how dedicated I am and how
much I care about my horse's well being (mentally and physically). I
even have the owner coming on a training ride every now and again, so
she can see that we don't just run wild through the woods - I think I
might have made a new convert!
Anyway, I agree that you need to ask a lot of questions of potential
boarding facilities and once you've chosen one, manage it carefully so
that they understand that you do need things done differently than the
folks that don't ask so much of their horse partners.
--
Trish Dutton
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Subject: Arabian Saddles
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From: "Dawn Saunders" <Dawn.Saunders@btinternet.com>
To: <bgray@xmission.com>
Subject: Arabian Saddles
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:27:00 -0000
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Hi,
I have just been ploughing thru' the Ridecamp Digest re tack used, and I
wondered when someone would mention these extremely comfortable saddles! I
too ride my Anglo-Arab mare "Ali" in a Solstice and it is brilliant. I
have been thru' several of the other makes in an attempt to make both
myself and my horse comfortable and finally borrowed a friends, fell in
love and bought my own! I have ridden in it for two seasons and it still
looks as good as new. Mind you, I read your ongoing saga about distances
ridden and think "what a bunch of wimps we are over here!" (Scotland), to
achieve a 50 mile completion is the aim of most of us, and the ones who
have are few and far between!!
Dawn Saunders,
Nether Glenton Farmhouse,
Monymusk,
Inverurie,
Aberdeen,
Scotland
Dawn and Ali
Dawn.Saunders@btinternet.com
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:33:49 -0500
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Well, Duncan, I guess that will teach me to keep my opinions to myself,
huh? Sorry, I'm not quite sure just how you might go about pickling the
rope. Maybe you can make some suggestions. My suggestions so far have
gone over like a lead balloon.
Lori Sumrall
----------
> From: Duncan Fletcher <dfletche@gte.net>
> To: sumralls@gateway.net; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Picklet Line Ropes
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 10:39 PM
>
> Lori -
>
> Everybody else has already beat you up on this one, so I've just got to
ask
> if pickleing the rope may be the key?
> Sorry, I had to say it.
>
> Duncan Fletcher
> dfletche@gte.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: sumralls <sumralls@gateway.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 12:00 AM
> Subject: Picklet Line Ropes
>
>
> >Idea for nonstretching rope for a picket line: Try REI (Recreational
> >Equipment, Inc.). They carry quite a selection of mountain climbing
ropes.
> > You know they are built not to stretch -- we hope! I guess any
"outdoor"
> >type store should carry them. Also, whitewater kayakers use what they
call
> >a "throw bag" which contains a fabulous, high quality rope. This rope
is
> >used to haul swimmers out of a river. Sorry I can't estimate prices for
> >you. Surely REI has a 1-800 number that you could find in
1-800-555-1212
> >and they also have a catalog which contains both these items (and
fabulous
> >riding pants in addition made by Patagonia -- expensive but of extremely
> >high quality.)
> >Mountain climber's carabiners are also a good idea for attaching the
lead
> >rope to the picket.
> >Good Luck
> >
> >Lori Sumrall
> >
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Cc: <elsie@calweb.com>
Subject: Re,Re: Belly Lift
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:28:03 -0500
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Lucy Trumball:
You wrote that when you tried the belly lift with your horse, Mouse, she
totally ignored you. Funny you should say that. I have tried the same
thing on my horse, Merx, and he also completely ignores me. He looks at me
as if I've lost my mind.
Well, I don't think we're doing it wrong. After all, how hard can it be?
I have seen a vet at a ride do it to my horse before (several times ) and
he reacts as he should: back goes up. I think maybe they just don't take
us seriously.
Don't know what to suggest.
Good Luck, Lori Sumrall
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: "K S Swigart" <katswig@deltanet.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: ride food
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:37:24 -0500
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Yes, Kat, you are correct and I knew that (thus, the UltraFeul). The
Coca-cola at an endurance ride is merely tastebud entertainment -- that
wonderful fizz!
Lori Sumrall
----------
> From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
> To: sumralls <sumralls@gateway.net>
> Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: ride food
> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 9:56 AM
>
>
>
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, sumralls wrote:
>
> > The best drink I've found is called UltraFeul. The grape flavor
> > tastes like real grape juice, not real salty. It was recommended to me
by
> > a friend who's a marathon runner. It's the only thing that keeps me
> > hydrated well. But I must say, there's nothing quite like a good old
> > Coca-cola at a vet check.
>
> While Coca-cola may taste good, it is a diuritic an will not help you
> hyrdrate, but rather cause further dehydration (by making you pee away
all
> your fluids). Not to say that you shouldn't drink Coke, but rather that
> doing so is not going to help your hydration level so don't count it as
> part of your "fluid" intake...if you count such things.
>
> kat
> Orange County, Calif.
tebud entertainment -- that
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <vans@cyberspy.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Suggestions to stop a kicker
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:50:21 -0500
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Hi Frank:
I have experienced your same problem with my gelding, Merx. He was a
kicker. He loves to tailgate but hates to be tailgated. He no longer ever
tries to kick.
What I did was I just started riding with a dressage whip (or a crop will
do). Whenever someone got behind him, he'd flatten his ears and kick out.
I would immediately with a flick of the wrist pop him on the butt. The
dressage whip can deliver a quicker pop because you can carry it tucked
behind you, already near the rump. Of course, the punishment must take
place immediately and need not be harsh. You're only saying "that is not
acceptable." It took my horse no time at all to figure it out, and this
was at a time when I was pregnant and only riding once on the weekend. So
just do this each time you ride until you're sure everything is taken care
of. Every so often if going out with a crowd of unfamiliar horses, I'd
take a crop just in case he got the urge. He never has. It worked like a
charm.
I must say to you thanks, too, for giving a darn that your horse is a
kicker. I have friends whose horses are kickers and it's annoying that
they are unwilling to attempt to break them of this dangerous habit. You
know, if they tried and failed, okay. But to not care enough to try is
annoying when you have to ride with them. I try not to now.
Good luck, Lori Sumrall
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: "Bill & Dee Fortner" <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:49:11 -0500
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Dee, Thanks for the information about the EZ Ride stirrups and S Arabian
Hackamore. Yes, I do receive Jeffers' catalog, but I have just been
throwing it away and haven't seen these items in there. I'll call and
order another. I wanted everyone else to see this message, though. I
haven't quite figured out how you all are able to include parts of the
previous message in the new message you send. Maybe someone would be so
kind as to fill me in on that.
For the rest of ridecamp, though, Dee said Jeffers carries the EZ Ride
stirrups and the S Arabian Halter at a very good price. Their number is
1-800-533-3377. You can thank Dee for that info.
Thanks to everyone else for their input on the EZ Ride and Cloud stirrups.
Most have had wonderful things to say about EZ Rides, even those that have
received head injuries from them. Only two have mentioned Clouds: one for,
one against. I'm still receptive to more input. Thanks so much.
Lori Sumrall
Friday, Jan. 23, 1:45 p.m.
sumralls@gateway.net
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Return-Receipt-To: llayman@neorx.com
Subject: Dogs on the Loose
I think that the loose dogs should be rounded up and held for
ransom/fine. If the fine was high enough, the ride manager could make
a lot of money, and the loose dogs wouldn't be loose anymore.
Linda-Cathrine
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Message-ID: <34C9096E.3C36@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 13:19:42 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: saddle survery#4 (long)
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Subject:
Re: reiner vs endurance model of the ss
Date:
Tue, 20 Jan 98 16:45:39 PST
From:
"Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To:
plough1@ix.netcom.com
REPLY TO 01/19/98 19:54 FROM PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com: Re: reiner vs
endurance
model of the ss
Hi Kimberly,
Lynn has a Stubben VSD that we bought and fitted for Ashley. It is
a 32 cm tree (widest), and I even drove her down to Offuts and the
stubben rep fit her himself. From everything I could tell, it fit
also.
I trained in it for several months, and had to put at least 2" of
foam rubber on top of the seat, UNDER a sheepskin cover, to make it
bearable, the seat was hard as a rock.
Lynn took her in the Mendocino 25, and after the ride, the vets said
she had some back soreness from that saddle.
Lynn at the time was about 10 lbs. heavier than me, but a very
balanced rider.
My feeling is that there is just not enough weight bearing area
, but maybe the survival has larger panels. I sat in a survival,
but thought it was too "forward."
Lindsey down the road has an Arab/Orlov cross from Lari. So picture
that type of back, large horse with substantial withers. She
has ridden for years in a bighorn endurance (the one that
Sporttack claims fits a lot of horses), and she feels that her
horse has never had a sore back.
Might be worth a trip to the West convention in March to see if
saddle vendors have anything to look at.
Believe me, before I got the Sportsaddle, I looked at EVERYTHING!
KAREN
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
ubject:
RE: saddles.
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:14:37 -0700
From:
Suzanne Hayes <hlm5506@montana.com>
To:
"'KIMBERLY PRICE'" <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Kimberly,
I'll make this quick cause I'm pressed for time, but I know that you're
trying to compile some stats for saddle research.
I think it's great you had Sandy come out. I firmly believe in
Chiropractic work (for certain problems of course). Wish I had one
close by!
Bummer, huh?
[Suzanne Hayes] I hate trying to find a new saddle! I went through the
"saddle search" after Kooter's 1990 season (1700 miles in competition
that year and he ended up with a few white hairs on his back, never sore
but the white hairs bothered me). So I took the plunge and ordered an
ortho flex Endurance cutback. Never did think it fit but Len did, as
well as Becky Hart. Had to use a crupper and breast collar to keep it
on and Kooter just didn't seem happy. After looking at many other
saddles and watching Kooter work with many different ones, I finally
decided my Stubben Sieg. VSD fit him better than any of the others. I
had been using this saddle all along ( since about 1984) and come to the
conclusion that if you ride ANY horse 1700 miles in one season, they're
probably going to end up with a couple of white hairs!
Does your Stubben Sig. VSD come with attachements etc for a pommel bag?
[Suzanne Hayes] It has 2 D rings on the pommel which I put a key ring
thingy on to make it "bigger", and then use it for my pommel bag as well
as breastplate. The pommel bag in the one Aust. Connect. sells that
carries 2 water bottles, and has a small pouch on the top that I put my
heart monitor transmitter in. The saddle also has 1 D ring on the side
towards the back. I have another one added on the other side by a
saddle maker.
How do you keep your "stuff" on a dressage saddle during your rides?
[Suzanne Hayes] The only other things I have on my saddle is a sponge,
scoop, easyboot in bag (with odds and ends stuffed into the easyboot).
That's it. On some rides (such as Tevis), I will wear a fanny pack for
extra water, and places for things like gloves and flashlight. I don't
carry alot of other stuff. Maybe someday I will be sorry I don't have
more with me, but guess I have always felt I wanted to keep the weight
to the minimum. There are enough vet checks throughout a ride to get me
through most problems.
Are these saddles expensive?
[Suzanne Hayes] Not sure, I have had 2 of them (one for 15 years, the
other for 5). I use one to condition with and the other for the rides.
I think they're in the $1500. price range.
Kooter is tall and not as wide as
Mystery, if I remember right, but what size saddle works on him?
[Suzanne Hayes] I would actually like to get a wider saddle than I have
now. I think the C tree width is what Kooter actually needs.
Any other suggestions you have would be appreciated.
[Suzanne Hayes] As soon as I get some extra money I am going to buy one
of those Arabian Horse saddles that Bev Gray sells. Am sure you could
get them in a pretty wide tree that it sounds like Mystery needs.
My dream saddle (although I haven't seen them real close so not TOTALLY
sure) is the SR Enduro. From what I've seen they look really good.
$1800. or more though!
youngster's QH blood might be against him for endurance?
[Suzanne Hayes] Hope not. He is much more Arab looking than Quarter
horse (no heavy rear muscling). Will have to wait and see though.
[Suzanne Hayes] I hope I have given you some useful information. Let
me know what you come up with in your saddle research!
Suzie
ubject:
Re: saddle types..more questions
Date:
Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:55:59, -0500
From:
XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Eventing seat is flatter.
2. Depends on the saddle. Mine is based on western, tho really a
stretch (DeSoto saddle). My husband's is based on English (Coligate
marathon)
Sure I can do arena work in anything *I* am comfortable in!
My husband rode a Stubben for years. Absolutely wouldn't ride in
anything
else. Finally had to give it up because it is just to narrow for our
wide
backed horses. It rubbed in the back of the withers. Got himself a
Marathon. Loves it. I hate it. It is huge. Way too big for me. But
he
is 6 feet and I am 5'1. I'd never trade my high pommel on my DeSoto
saddle. Saved me going over my horse's head many a time!
Hope this helps.
Louise Burton & Fa Al Badi+/ (DeSoto for 3000 miles!)
FIredance Farms Endurance Arabians
Ok
Subject:
Re: saddle initiation...
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:12:25 -0600
From:
Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
THAT IS THE HARD PART. You will find yourself trying and returning or
selling many. I hope you are luckier than I was.
You might try Thornhill saddles. They have a web site. They have good
quality leather english style saddles and have several endurance models.
One of theirs was the right size for Star. If the aussie had not worked,
I
would have gone with the Thornhill. Their saddles seem to be reasonably
priced. Ask them to send you a catalog. And they do allow returns. If
you
send them a wither tracing and pictures of your horse, they will be able
to
match you up better. I think the one I was looking at was around $600
with
stirrup leathers and all.
chris paus & starSubject:
saddle survey
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:57:06 +0000
From:
"Linnea Skoglund" <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
To:
plough1@ix.netcom.com
Kimberly,
I have a Sharron Saare Saddle. The jury is out on it. I haven't had
much time on it even tho I have had it a year. I think it fits my
horse well and she is happy with it. But I don't find the seat deep
enough. And am not real satisfied with the sirrup placement. And I
get terrible pain in one knee. I am seriously thinking of selling
and trying an english-cut saddle (used to use a Wintec multipurpose).
But also, I ride a gaited horse - paso fino. I think the saddle
needs may be different.
Linnea
****************************************************
Linnea G. Skoglund, Ph.D.
Dept. Bioagricultural Sciences and Pest Management
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
970.491.6950
970.491.3862 (fax)
skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu
****************************************************
Subject:
Re: saddle survey
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:29:09 -0500
From:
charle@tpc.tulane.edu (Charlene Bartholomae)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Kimberly,
I'd like to know the responses regarding the Soft Rider (if you
have
any) and
any Australian saddles.
Thanks.
Subject:
Re: saddle survey
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:45:37 EST
From:
SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
okay here goes -
23 year old Arab mare: OF Express for training and cutback for races;
Crosby
Wembley II for students and PDN for jumping
12 yo Arab mare, OF Patriot for training and Cutback for racing; this
mare
feels like a tons of bricks over fences! OF Cutting saddle for newbies
on
trail rides.
13 year old stallion - OF cutback or Patriot for training and Cutback
for
races; Crosby PND for jumping and bareback for trail.
5 year old Arabian mare green - Patriot and Cutback for all riding
except ring
riding - PDN
sandy
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:24:45 -0800
From:
Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1 , 2 , 3
Kimberly Price wrote:
> ***no I don't Lauren and I havn't heard of this one.....
> Kimberly
Many people ride in the Synergist Saddle. The most important feature of
it is it's "balanced" seat or dressage type seat. The saddle puts you in
a balanced position, not a forward (hunt-seat) or western seat (legs are
sticking out in front of you)
I grew up riding hunter/jumper and so I feel more comfortable in that
type of saddle, although there were a few things I liked about western
saddles too. So, when I went saddle shopping, I wanted to find a saddle
that combined the best of the two saddle types. I feel that I found it
in the Synergist.
Here is their web site: http://www.synergistsaddles.com/
The most important thing to remember is that there is no "best" or
"right" saddle. Everyone is different and they want different features.
The saddle that fits you and your horse is the saddle to buy.
Lauren
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:39:30 -0800
From:
Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
Kimberly:
BOZ Saddlery at: http://www.geocities.c
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:33:59 -0800 (PST)
From:
Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
> Bighorn....
>
> Some have commented their widest tree is too narrow for an arab, of
> course I have a big wide morab, any other comments on this?
I know you were asking about Stubbens, but I spent some
time talking to the guy at the tack shop in Auburn about
BigHorns.
Their tree is a 3/4 QH tree, I believe - but they do do
an arab tree too. The Saddle was around $420 brand new
and he had one sitting there, to compare with all the other
"normal" bighorns. He also had a second hand endurance
model - which was more expensive - but you could get the
same effect by sawing off the horn. I think that had the
3/4 tree, though.
He had a ton of saddles (not kidding), so it might be worth
hauling Mystery over there and trying on a load?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:44:04 -0600 (CST)
From:
"Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To:
Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
try www.haynet.net -- they have the best, most-kept-current list of
horsey URLS anywhere
Glenda R. Snodgrass
Before you begin, consider ... The Net Effect
http://www.theneteffect.com
(334) 433-0196
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:26:14 -0800
From:
helen@loc3.tandem.com (harvey_helen)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
> Hello everyone.
>
> I'm still collecting lots of information on saddles. Now I need to
> figure out where the distributors are and if the manufacturers have
> websites. If you know the url's of any of them, could you email me
> privately. I've used the search engines to look up either the names or
> saddle and I'm not getting anywhere fast!!!
>
> I'm looking for:
>
> SR Enduro
http://horsemans.net/sr-saddleco/
Note: I've got one; my horse is very pleased with it!
> Patriot
I presume you mean the Orthoflex Patriot: http://www.ortho-flex.com/
>
> Wow, alot of people like their Stubbins VSD but they look a bit pricy to
> me. Some have commented their widest tree is too narrow for an arab, of
> course I have a big wide morab, any other comments on this?
I've got a Stubbin VSD for sale; 31CM tree, if you're interested.
It is too narrow for my mare; haven't tried it on my gelding.
Subject:
Re: saddle survey#3 (long)
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:35:55 -0700
From:
"Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To:
<PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Kim:
I know that I am late with this info but I just could not resist. My
wife
Arlene has ridden a saddle made by Gary Mc Clintock some years ago (like
20?) She has logged about 15, 000 miles in competition in it (mostly top
tens) and I would venture another 45, 000 in training and conditioning.
This saddle has never shown any sign of soreing any horses back.
Something
I cannot say for the Orthoflex we thought would replace the old saddle.
It
has had new stirrup leathers put on it and a few dings repaired after
wrecks but it is still going strong and will survive a few more thousand
miles. Gary is located in Southern California and I guess will still
build
endurance saddles if you want one. Does not look very good since it has
seen rain, snow, heat, much horse sweat, wrecks , thrown in the back
of
the pickup, and general abuse over the years.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:21:56 EST
From:
CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
I honestly don't know if the StubbenVSD is an all-purpose model. I do
know
that the Stubben Siegried is more of a forward flap jump positioned
saddle and
many people are used to riding in it but it is not favorable for
all-purpose
distance riding. We're all prejudiced to our "favorites" and you're
wise to
get the overall view. In a traditional English model I would tend to
suggest
you try the "all-purpose/all-purpose with dressage tendency over the
all-
purpose with jump tendency.
The all-purpose/Jump tendency tends to put your leg in a more forward
placement; consequently your shoulders tend to come forward to balance.
This
tends to be more fatiguing to the lower back, more work to post and ad
more
weight to the forequarters/wither shoulder area than an all-purpose/all-
purpose with dressage tendency.
Good Luck. CS
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:33:11 EST
From:
Phnatasha <Phnatasha@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM, ridecamp@endurance.net
In a message dated 98-01-23 03:50:56 EST, PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com writes:
<< 'm still collecting lots of information on saddles. Now I need to
figure out where the distributors are and if the manufacturers have
websites. If you know the url's of any of them, could you email me
privately. I've used the search engines to look up either the names or
saddle and I'm not getting anywhere fast!!!
I'm looking for:
SR Enduro
>>
I don't believe Steve has a website... I ride in one of his saddles and
LOVE
it! Have had it for 3 years... if you'd like any info... let me know...
Patti
Date:
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:08:37 EST
From:
rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
>Bighorn
I live a few miles from where they're made. Have seen them from the
inside out and have done a couple of rides on them.
the tree is advertised as "full quarter horse bars", but I have brought
the tree home and it actually is O.K. on an averigish Arab (their Arab
saddle tree would fit a Percheron). The stirrups are too far forward is
the main problem. They insist on putting 2 1/2 or 3" stirrup leathers
which are very hard to turn, and really won't take up far enough for a
short person without some altering. The seat is not very comfortable.
The quality is fine. I just sold my husband's, but the new owner had it
switched to 2" nylon stirrup leathers, and had them cut down the tops of
the fenders so they could be taken up farther and it helped a lot.
Angie McGhee
Subject:
Re: Arabian saddle information
Date:
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:53:46 -0700
From:
Beverly Gray <bgray@xmission.com>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
Kimberly Price wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Can you suggest to me how to do a custom template to figure out if a
> saddle fits my horse?
>
> What is your tryout policy and return policy for fitting a saddle? I
> am located in the SF bay area, but I've heard lots of good things about
> your saddle.
>
> If you have any other information to mail me, please do so at:
> Kimberly Price
> 441 Via Hidalgo, #35
> Greenbrae, CA 94904
>
> thank you in advance!
> Kimberly
**********************************************************
Hi Kimberly;
Thank you for your interest in the Arabian Saddle. And thank you for
all your work on the saddle survery. I can send you a template to fit
your Mor/Arab (nice cross, I ride Anglo Arabians). If you horses is
different than our standard tree sizes we can have a custom tree made
in England(not extra chrage but it does take 6 weeks) I want you to try
the saddle and most people keep it for a week to get a good feel. If it
doesn't fit your horse, you can send it right back to me. It is a
wonderful saddle.
Your template is in the mail.
Happy Trails,
Beverly Gray
Date:
Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:47:20 -0600
From:
Roger or Debby Stai <rstai@flash.net>
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References:
1
Same here, Stubben pinches my horse in the shoulders.
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:17:32 -0500
From:
charle@tpc.tulane.edu (Charlene Bartholomae)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Kimberly, Here is his e mail address for Frank Baines...
Baines@vitalo.Com
>
>
>
,
/,`\
` | \____\\
_( ) \ Charlene Bartholomae
Subject:
Re: saddle info
Date:
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:50:02 -0700
From:
shiffman@dancris.com
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Good morning,
There are only two saddle trees...A WIDE OR SMOOTH pommel.The saddle is
$1,595. You add the extras to fit your specific needs and pocketbook. We
sell direct. The saddle is fully custom fit to both you and the horse.
RIDER: We need your thigh, inseam(from crotch to floor without shoes or
boots, and most importantly, the measurements between your butt bones(we
chisel two spots into the tree seat and coat with foam so that when
posting
your reduce shock to the hips,spine and neck).
HORSE: Once we receive your $500 downpayment, we send you your saddle #
and
a flexible curve kit with instruction. We also require a broadside
picture
of the horse, shot on level ground, from about six feet from the horse
and
a picture shot down the horses back from the hips to the shoulders. You
do
this by standing on a small box or stool.
>From the time we receive your downpayment it takes about6-7 weeks to
receive your saddle.
If you have more question, let me know.
Thanks, Steve Shiffman
P.S I will send you a catolog and video, but you can check our web page
WWW.synergistsaddles.coms . Check "More info" when reviewing.
At 03:02 PM 1/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I would like more info on your saddles. What are the price ranges? Do
>you have a distributor in the San Francisco Bay area? How do I guess
>which size would fit my horse since I do not have a flexicurve?
>
>If you have any cataloques to mail, please mail to:
>
>Kimberly M. Price
>441 Via Hidalgo, #35
>Greenbrae, CA 94904
>
>thanks!
>
>
Subject:
Re: need saddle web sites.
Date:
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:03:54 EST
From:
SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Organization:
AOL (http://www.aol.com)
To:
PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM
In a message dated 98-01-23 03:22:08 EST, you write:
ALSO call Boyd Zontelli on his - it is wonderfully fitted and comfy AND
LIGHT!
818.889.2818 I THINK or 991.2818. Tell him sandy said to call and tell
him HI
for me.
<< SR Enduro
Stubben
Bighorn
Australian Stock Saddle Company - call Colin in Malibu directly
(818)889 -
????
PatriotORTHOFLEX
BROWNSADD@EARTHLINK.NET (or com??)
, 23 Jan 1998 10:50:05 -0700
From:
Suzanne Hayes <hlm5506@montana.com>
To:
"'PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com'" <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Kimberly,
commented on how hard as a rock it is! Did you use this saddle on the
Tevis?
[Suzanne Hayes] Yes, all the years except 1972 when I used a youth
western saddle.
Do you find it a problem that it is hard at all?
[Suzanne Hayes] I don't think it is any harder than most other English
saddles. I use a wool fleece cover for it now (which I love in any
weather!), but years ago I rode it many rides with no cover at all.
Guess you just get used to it. If I was to pleasure ride at a slow pace
I may not like actually "sitting" in it for long periods of times. But
since there is so much rider motion when endurance riding I don't notice
the "hardness".
/,`\By the way, I wanted to comment on my experiences with Australian
saddles. They rate right up there with "saddles that I wouldn't take
even if given away"! My mother had several different ones (all
expensive and authentic) and used them on many different horses. While
she loved them for herself, over a period of time, they sored every
single horse she used them one! Many, many people I have talked to have
had the same experiences.
Look closely at the Arabian saddles that Bev Gray carries. It sounds
like you can get a really wide tree on them and maybe get a used for
less money.
Suzie
Subject:
Re: TB Mag aritcle Nov/Dec97
Date:
Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:28:34 -0500
From:
charle@tpc.tulane.edu (Charlene Bartholomae)
To:
PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
I have to agree. I rode in an All Purpose Kieffer for years and had
major
knee problems.
My physical therapist (who rides) told me exactly where it hurt before I
told her once
she had me get into the position I HAD to ride in to maintain balance,
which
was
leaning way forward. In my Endurance saddle, I do not have to lean
anywhere.
I just stand straight up and am most comfy and very well centered and
balanced.
MUCH less strain on my knees, neck, back, etc.
I loved my Kieffer for cross country jumping, but NOT for
Endurance.
Just my .02
>Did anyone out there get this magazine? They skipped mine and the
>Jan/Feb98 refers to a saddle fitting article part 1 I'd really like to
>read. Maybe someone would be willing to copy and fax/mail it over? Let
>me know in private please, I sure would appreciate it!
>
>In the TB mag I just received last night (Jan/Feb98) the saddle
>conformation article is very good, but states that the stirrups on an
>english saddle are placed too far forward on the tree, where the most
>strength is, so balance cannot be obtained!?! I can't believe thats
>true. Comments?
>
>Thanks so much!
>Kimberly
>
>
>
located in Southern California and I guess will still
build
endurance saddles if you want one. Does not l6299 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002455 06462211454 0013125 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from consider.theneteffect.com (consider.theneteffect.com [206.202.56.3]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA12826 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:01:10 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:59:23 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Belly Lifts
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980123081658.00690f60@mbay.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980123155757.9382B-100000@consider.theneteffect.com>
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> If you aren't sure your horse can lift its back, watch the back when the
> horse poops! Most endurance horses are very stiff backed because of arab
> conformation and because they don't get asked to use their hind ends under
> them very much. A stiff backed horse can still raise its back but may take
> longer to learn to do it "on command" as well as while pooping. And, until
Well, I can always tell when Lakota is pooping without even turning to
see -- I can feel his back move under the saddle. Does that mean he's
supple in the back and using his hind end as he should?
Glenda & Lakota (Champion Pooper)
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:20:34 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: sumralls <sumralls@gateway.net>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
In-Reply-To: <199801231957.NAA15107@server3.wans.net.>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980123161732.9382F-100000@consider.theneteffect.com>
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> haven't quite figured out how you all are able to include parts of the
> previous message in the new message you send. Maybe someone would be so
Set the options on your email software to "include message" when
"replying" and use the "reply" function to reply to an email (rather than
"compose") -- then use the delete key generously, please, and only repeat
the portions you need to refer to in your reply.
> For the rest of ridecamp, though, Dee said Jeffers carries the EZ Ride
Yes, Jeffers carries them at a good price, but they only carry the
straight version, NOT the version with safety cage. I highly recommend
the safety cage, even though they cost a little more (about $20 more I
think) and are a little bigger and more awkward. It's still worth it.
Sportack carries both versions at a very good price.
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980123101855.00693834@pop-in.ncsu.edu>
References: Conversation <19980122.230828.3294.2.ValSharpe@juno.com> with last message <3.0.1.32.19980123101855.00693834@pop-in.ncsu.edu>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: "Cam/Shannon Wood" <wood.cameron@acd.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs in Camp
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 98 18:19:14 PST
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----------
> Hi all,
>
> Heres how I can see this solved. I know people that have well
> behaved dogs and people that have well behaved children in camp, and
> visa versa. I think everyone should be given a chance but once the
> kids/dogs are outta control they should then be told to stay at
> home. Kids/dogs should behave and it is the owners/parents
> fault if they don't. So if you can't keep your changes in line
> don't punish us other campers. Thanks, just my thought.
I don't want to point any fingers here, but I just wanted to mention that
at many of the rides I've been to the worst offenders (people not
controlling dogs or kids) have been ride management and vets! And these
are rides that print in their ride fliers, "dogs must be on a leash at all
times" --- meanwhile, their dogs are roaming around loose, peeing on
haybales or stealing food from coolers, etc. I would suspect that, like
those of us who are there to ride, the managers and vets are too busy with
horses to adequately supervise dogs. What should we do here, tell them to
stay home? <VBG> That's a little difficult to do.... and yet I still think
THEY should be setting the example.......
Shannon W. LVT
Laingsburg, MI
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References: Conversation <19980122.230828.3294.2.ValSharpe@juno.com> with last message <3.0.6302 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001603 06462220004 0013067 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from bos1c.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1c.delphi.com [199.93.4.3]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA16165 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:55:58 -0800 (PST)
From: LIZSZELIGA@delphi.com
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:54:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: leaning
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Angie McGhee said
"When you do leg yields, I was told, lean in the direction that
you want
the horse to go."
That is the way a dressage instructor has explained it to me
also. The horse then will want to move under you, in order to
keep you balanced on his back.
Liz in Belchertown, MA
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:17:08 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: Membership
Oh Look... just happen to have an Endurance News at work!
... :) ...what a great job... OK, let's see.
American Endurance Ride Conference
701 High St. Suite 203
Auburn, CA 95603
Phone: 916/832-2260
Fax : 916/832-7805
Keep in mind they are all at the Convention in KY right
now this very minute. :)
There is a full page registration form to fill out and a
1/2 page Horse registration form. If you don't have a
local friend with an Endurance News, they will either send
you the forms (if you need them) or I can copy and fax them
for you. When I registered Magnum horse I just called
them up, gave them the info and they gave me a number to
use on our entry.
I checked their web page and don't see the forms. Maybe
we should suggest and update?
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:34:02 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: ride food
Lori wrote:
> Yes, Kat, you are correct and I knew that (thus, the UltraFeul). The
>Coca-cola at an endurance ride is merely tastebud entertainment -- that
>wonderful fizz!
Not to be confusing here... I'm the "other" kat...
Coca-cola syrup used to be used to settle an upset
stomach. Used to be you could still find "Coke Syrup"
on the pharmacy shelf. No comment on whether or not
this is before or after they removed the cocaine
(thus "coca-cola"). Anyways, while a can of "Coke"
might not increase your fluid intake, it can help
you stomach food under stress and the tooth eating
acid will help your stomach digest food stuffs.
An ice cold coke or pepsi is often what tastes good
to me too. Especially when things aren't sitting
really well.
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:30:07 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: Kathy Myers <kathy@nvolve.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Membership
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AERC just moved their offices to:
American Endurance Ride Conference
11960 Heritage Oak Place, Suite 9
Auburn, CA 95603-2401
(916) 823-2260
aerc@foothill.net
Deanne & Gabe
Kathy Myers wrote:
> 701 High St. Suite 203
> Auburn, CA 95603
> Phone: 916/832-2260
> Fax : 916/832-7805
>
> Keep in mind they are all at the Convention in KY right
> now this very minute. :)
>
> There is a full page registration form to fill out and a
> 1/2 page Horse registration form. If you don't have a
> local friend with an Endurance News, they will either send
> you the forms (if you need them) or I can copy and fax them
> for you. When I registered Magnum horse I just called
> them up, gave them the info and they gave me a number to
> use on our entry.
>
> I checked their web page and don't see the forms. Maybe
> we should suggest and update?
>
> :) - kat myers
> in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
--
Deanne Del Vecchio
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Message-ID: <34C8889F.15FE@vermilion.reno.nv.us>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:10:07 -0800
From: Kirsten Price <kirsten@vermilion.reno.nv.us>
Organization: Exploration in the Americas
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Subject: Conditioning young/beginning horse
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I am just starting out and have a couple of questions. I have a 9
year-old Morgan gelding who is currently in excellent condition. He's
actually a cutting horse, but I'd like to take him on some shorter
endurance rides throughout the year for a change of pace so to speak.
But my question is really about my 4 year-old Morgan filly. I'd like to
get her started on Endurance/CTRs. She has about three months of
training with an excellent reining/working cowhorse trainer under her
belt and she is solid on the trail (even some rough stuff) over short
distances as the trainer uses hill work and flat work two days per week
as part of both mental and physical conditioning to supplement the arena
work. I'd like to get her in good 25-mile condition by mid-spring, but
am concerned about doing too much with her. She is mentally mature but
physically immature as yet.
I searched the archives and got some good info... but no one ever said
anything (that I could find) about ponying and how effective or
ineffective a method that would be to condition a young horse without so
much stress from a rider. Also, is it typically acceptable to pony
well-behaved young horses on rides?
I do not have a heart-rate monitor. How important is it that I get one
(also how soon) and what brands are recommended?
I'd appreciate any information and advice anyone has to offer. Thanks.
Kirsten
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Message-ID: <34C935F4.6A70@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:29:40 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: stumbling horse./horse problems/dogs.
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Just catching up on digests too:
A background of the stumbling horse and the horse having "problems"
would really help to narrow down the possible causes and solutions.
This is true for any of these posts...what is the age of the horse? The
experience? Experience of the rider? Etc.,Etc.,Etc.,
Mystery stumbled quite a bit while learning to carry weight (me). I
thought he would be sure footed, growing up in wild hilly country, and
he was, loose without fatso on his back! It took a couple years before
I truely trusted him.
Horses leaning out on a cliff....I understood from more experienced
people the horse will lean outward to see where they are going...scarey
for the rider. Rider has to not overcompensate and try to remain
centered but realize the horse needs to do this. I may be totally wrong
here.....
Horse problems. Everyone training a horse will have days where they
feel they've taken one step forward, two steps backward. Just take a
breather and try not to stress over it. If you are stressed, mad,
impatient, then the horse will pick it up and it will be worse. If you
aren't but are still not getting through, the horse doesn't understand
what you are trying to teach it. Consider getting the advise / lessons
from a more experienced trainer. Even professional trainers have
trainers themselves, there is nothing wrong with it. But preserve and
know that is part of the growing process..
I love dogs. I wish I could give one a good home and adopt one
immediately. I can't, I live in an apartment right now. I'm very
tolerant of dogs on the trail, more sometimes than I should be. As a
dog lover, I can't imagine keeping a dog in a dark trailer, where they
can't even see outside, all day long, is better than letting them stay
at home. I see people do this all the time at Bear Valley, Pt.Reyes
where no dogs are allowed. How would you like to be kept in a dark
black box hours on end, just listening to the activity outside? Thats
the ONLY complaint I have about people and their dogs.
I'm off line til Monday, hope I don't get a lot of hate mail when I come
into work! I hope everyone has an excellent weekend, with time spent
with all their buddies, two legged and four legged. Safe riding to you
all!
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab...."I roll so the herd knows I belong")
& Provo the Great (&get away from me with that tape! I dont want racing
strips, you sicko!).
Pt.Reyes, CA
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From: PEGGASIS <PEGGASIS@aol.com>
Message-ID: <aa90e8bc.34c939a4@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:45:22 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Correct AERC Address:
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AERC
11960 Heritage Oak Place
Suite # 9
Auburn, CA. 95603-2401
You will have a get a form out of the Endurance News to register your horse
and mail in with $10.00.
Or you can fax them with this information:
AERC Horse Registration Form
Owner's Name: AERC #
Horse's Name: Nickname:
Region Sex Color Breed
Breed ID Foal Date
Horse has____has not____ completed previous rides.
Submit one form per horse. $10.00 per horse
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:45:25 -0600
To: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
In-Reply-To: <2f2a9f12.34c77b25@aol.com>
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Agreed. Even though Star and I are just starting out, I was quite proud of
our first 25. I ached for days afterward. Other horse people, even
foxhunters, are in awe of distance riders, even those of us who do the baby
rides. I want to get to the 50s, my horse can do it, but I have a herniated
disk in my back and have to take it easy at times. I also have to work full
time to support my horse habit, which cuts into my riding time!
If other people look down on us because we don't do the farther distances,
then so be it. I am riding to see how much my horse and I can accomplish in
a way that keeps us both healthy and sound for many years.
chris paus &star
At 12:00 PM 1/22/98 EST, SandyDSA wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-22 03:58:17 EST, you write:
>
><< 25 milers aren't looked down upon by the organization
>Yes they are in some circles - evidenced by the time it took to GET any kind
>of goal/reward system for the LD system.
>- in
> fact they even have a distance program aimed at ltd distance events!
> (It would take a HECK of a long time to reach the endurance mileage
> program's award levels at 25 miles per ride!)
>
> Not everyone wants to or can do 50's or 100's. It is a personal
> choice. I was at a ride a couple of years ago where the 50 milers were
> told that they were "riding half a ride" - talk about insulting! >>
>Yes this is insulting and we hear it a lot - I always scratch my head
thinking
>- this is a 23 year old horse here. I consider her continued participation a
>minor miracle. Of course, for many reasons, just as you said, not everyone
can
>prepare to comete in the 50s and 100s etc. Children and jobs come to mind. My
>husband has stated, "what do these people do for a living that they can be at
>all these events?" I am curious too. I think it does come down to priorities
>and I feel that my daughters will be grown before I know it and so they do
>come first. Only one likes horses at all so to drag the other along makes us
>both miserable. I don't wnat to go to the mall with her either. We conpromise
>at times, but I don't think that works well in preparing a horse for 50-100
>miles. It does work for 25-35 miles. BUt to be demeaned for a chocie is
>insulting. Frankly, all those folks I rode with and showed with and agaainst
>in the past 2 decades couldn't ride even 20 miles without dying in the
saddle,
>so truly, even 25-35 miiles is admirable to the VAST majority. Respect where
>respect is due would be a great motto - besides to finish is to win, which
>doesn't specify distance. :)
>san
>
>
>
n so be it. I am riding to see how much my horse and I can accomplish in
a way that keeps us both healthy and sound for many years.
chris paus &star
At 12:00 PM 1/22/98 EST, SandyDSA wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-22 03:58:17 EST6310 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000010217 06462262763 0013111 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from onramp.micoks.net (onramp.micoks.net [209.153.98.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29048 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:54:22 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:53:29 -0600
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: wither tracing
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34C781E7.316B@ix.netcom.com>
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Hi Kimberley, sorry, I accidently pushed the send button before I was
finished. hate this windows 95 keyboard!
That's easy. I went to an office supply shop and bought a thing called a
flexicurve. It is used by draftsmen. It bends, but has ruler marks on it.
You may also use a piece of clothes hanger or baling wire.
Take the wire or whatgever, place it at the horse's withers and press it
down on either side, behind the shoulder. The flexicurve is best because it
stays where you put it. The baling wire or clothes hanger will take some
doing.
The wire should be sitting on the horse where the front of the saddle will
sit. When it is pressed into place on the horse, CAREFULLY lift it off. Lay
it down on a piece of paper or cardboard and trace around the wire. This is
the shape of your horse's back where the saddle belongs.
Some saddlers will tell you to fax them a copy of the wither tracing. They
compare that to their templates. I prefer to make a cardboard tracing, then
cut it out. I can take that with me to a saddle shop and place it under a
saddle to see if the fit is close. It can help you rule out some saddles
right away.
It is also an eye opener as to what different saddles call a regular tree
and what they call wide. There is a lot of variation.
good luck
chris paus & star
At 09:29 AM 1/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hey Chris, what is a wither tracing? Do I trace where the saddle should
>sit?
>K
>
>Chris Paus wrote:
>>
>> THAT IS THE HARD PART. You will find yourself trying and returning or
>> selling many. I hope you are luckier than I was.
>>
>> You might try Thornhill saddles. They have a web site. They have good
>> quality leather english style saddles and have several endurance models.
>> One of theirs was the right size for Star. If the aussie had not worked, I
>> would have gone with the Thornhill. Their saddles seem to be reasonably
>> priced. Ask them to send you a catalog. And they do allow returns. If you
>> send them a wither tracing and pictures of your horse, they will be able to
>> match you up better. I think the one I was looking at was around $600 with
>> stirrup leathers and all.
>>
>> chris paus & star
>>
>> At 10:41 PM 1/21/98 -0600, KIMBERLY PRICE wrote:
>> >You wrote:
>> >>
>> >>That's why each of us has to go through the saddle odyssey. It helps
>> >to>gatehr information, but as you have learned, what works for one
>> >horse and>rider will not work for another.
>> >>
>> >>chris paus & starman -- on our 12th and final saddle I think
>> >>
>> >
>> > And I've only begun my search! I havn't even looked and priced
>> >anything yet, except the stubben and I've GOT to go cheaper! Oh man,
>> >is this like, "the" initiation or something? My cousin use to say you
>> >had to fall off your horse at least 7 times before you could say you
>> >are a horsewoman, maybe its you have to join the big saddle search or
>> >something....
>> >
>> > Good thing is my friends say Mystery has good withers, back, etc and
>> >shouldn't be hard to fit. Now, how do I get the horse to the saddle
>> >instead of a bunch of arranging to check them out and return them!
>> >Ughhh!!!
>> >
>> > I hope you have some nice weather coming up this weekend. We've had
>> >only 2 dry days this month but I know, I know...no ice and snow!! <g>
>> >
>> > BTW, how old is Star and where did he come from?
>> >
>> >K
>> >
>> >
>
>
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What kinds of problems are you having?
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:23:12 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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Subject: Sports Saddle Fit
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For those of you that use the Sports Saddle, I have a question.
How does it fit on a high, narrow withered horse? Do you have a problem with it closing in
on you? By that I mean, since the withers are so much higher than the back, does the pommel
feel like it moves toward your body?
Dee
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:30:46 -0600
To: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Membership
In-Reply-To: <34C8D656.E5AC249F@peop.tds.net>
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How do you even get a membership form. I had one and lost it, darn. I;'ve
emailed aerc, but have received no replacemetn form.
At 11:41 AM 1/23/98 -0600, Bill & Dee Fortner wrote:
>Can anyone tell me the correct address for mailing the AERC Membership Form?
>
>How do I go about registering my horse to accumulate mileage credit?
There is nothing on
>the membership form to indicate any such thing.
>
>Dee
>
>
>
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: In search of the perfect boot
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:26:57 -0500
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Hi Glenda
About your Vasque boots, I have a pair of Vasque hiking boots, though they
are too heavy duty for riding in. I just wanted to say, though, that they
are extremely high quality, which is nice considering what you have to pay
for them. I've had mine for about six or seven years and they're still
holding up beautifully. I've always ridden in hiking boots, usually Nike
because they're more affordable.
Hope this was of some help
Lori
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Saddles for endurance
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:15:34 -0500
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On Jan 20, Jessica Tuteur wrote:
I have owned Stubbens and other English saddles. Don't recommend them for
endurance because panels of the tree are narrow and focus too much weight
in one area.
As always, there are two sides. I too have performed The Great Saddle
Search. I was having back soreness problems with an Arab gelding who had
developed so much musculature in his back after having him a year or two
that he was being pinched and jabbed by my Big Horn Cordura Endurance
Saddle, which I had purchased when I purchased this "little" arab. I had a
very hard time finding a saddle with a wide enough tree. Tried many a
saddle from used tack shops and new.
I finally after many, many months and many, many saddles later settled on
a Courbette Marschall Special but had to order the extra wide tree. It
is an all-purpose/dressage model, nice knee roll, very deep, padded seat,
and of course it's pretty. The panels on this saddle, unlike many English
saddles, are very wide and I am blown away by how perfectly these panels
lie on my horse's back. They apply even pressure from front to back and
side to side on each panel. It's the most
impressive thing I've ever seen. I've had to adjust to riding in an
English saddle -- wasn't my style before. But it fits the horse so well, I
just had to buy it. I think I paid about $950 or so.
Now, I might add I'm nowhere near a 100-miler, so seriously long
distances, I couldn't tell you the comfort level. Another very comfortable
saddle that lets you, the rider, not have to work very hard to stay
balanced is Marilyn Horstmeyer's (SE) DeSoto Endurance Saddle, which she
hand makes to your specifications. Though, just as with the Orthoflex
saddles, many people like them, many don't.
Lori Sumrall
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From: "Amber Knight" <ambrnite@fix.net>
To: "HELFTER 77" <HELFTER77@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:37:16 -0600
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I don't know where you get your "facts" about feeds, but you should try
feeding products from a major feed company that makes quality feed like
Purina. Sure you may pay a little more, but that is because only high
quality grains are used in combination with several sources of fats and a
complete balance of vitamins and minerals. Sure there are lots of feed
mills out there that make junk feed, but not all of them!!!!.
----------
> From: HELFTER 77 <HELFTER77@aol.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Sources of Foods
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 8:39 AM
>
> Sources of Foods
>
> For those who did not read past "sugar is bad for horses" I am re-posting
the
> remains of that paragraph and the following paragraph for reiteration.
> Please keep in mind that poor quality grains are hidden in sweet feeds.
This
> is a fact. The feed industry has a bad habit of using our animals as
garbage
> disposals. Sweet and pelleted feeds are great for covering up that
garbage.
>
> >>Sugar is as bad for horses as it is for any other species, and horses
may
> exhibit mood swings similarly seen in humans. Time and time again horses
calm
> rapidly after molasses-sweetened feeds are removed from the diet.
Molasses
> also contains chemical preservatives or surfactants. Preservatives to
reduce
> spoilage in the heat of the summer and surfactants such as propylene
glycol to
> reduce congelation in the chill of the winter. Molasses and its baggage
bring
> inconsistencies that we like to avoid.
> Pelleted feeds are used as alternatives to sweet feeds and do not cause
the
> increase in blood sugar that is associated with feeding molasses coated
> grains. However, pelleted feeds bring forth other concerns. One,
poor-quality
> grains are easily disguised in pellet form and two, many pellet binders
are
> chemically based. The major concern lies in the quality of the grains.
Grain
> sources are where a number of amino acids and natural occurring trace
minerals
> are retrieved. With the methods of pelleting, even if the quality of the
> grains are good to begin with, many of the nutrients are lost in
processing.
> The philosophy behind a good quality feed is to make sure you see what
you are
> getting. <<
>
> Kendra Helfter Lax
> Advanced Biological Concepts
>
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:43:42 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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To: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sports Saddle Fit
References: <34C96CB0.973947B@peop.tds.net>
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Bill & Dee Fortner wrote:
>
> For those of you that use the Sports Saddle, I have a question.
>
> How does it fit on a high, narrow withered horse? Do you have a problem with it closing in
> on you? By that I mean, since the withers are so much higher than the back, does the pommel
> feel like it moves toward your body?
>
I'll jump in here since I have the highest withered, narrowest horse
that God has ever made <G> and just happened to have bought a SS last
year!
Honest to goodness, it feels just the same on him and the mutton
witheres wide horse....it doesn't close in at all. The seat shape pretty
much looks the same, even thought they are totally different horses.
The saddle really does shape to the horse, I ride with a pretty loose
girth (I can slide my enitre hand throught it *before* I ride, and when
I go to pull the saddle off, I really have to pull at it to get it to
move.
it has also saved me from hitting the ground a few times since I can
feel what is is going to do just a nanosecond sooner than I would be
able to in a treed saddle.
tracy
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Not MY dog!
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:52:00 -0800
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Since every single person INSISTS that THEIR dogs are not the
out-of-control ones, then WHO owns these dogs that are running around
peeing on the hay, begging at the table, and generally being a pain in
the ass??? Think about it now, have any of you EVER heard anyone say
"Well yeah, I bring my dogs to rides and I let them run wild." These
people are idiots and you can't legislate stupidity. Even if you rule
that dogs are not allowed, they bring them anyway. The only way to end
this behavior is to DQ them from the ride if they don't follow the dog
rules, just like any other ride rule.
If dogs are well behaved (read confined and quiet) they should pose no
problems at rides and I'm sure no one will mind. If we weren't (some
kind of ) animal lovers, we wouldn't be here, right?
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From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Blankenship, Ann wrote:
The only way to end
> this behavior is to DQ them from the ride if they don't follow the dog
> rules, just like any other ride rule.
>
> If dogs are well behaved (read confined and quiet) they should pose no
> problems at rides and I'm sure no one will mind. If we weren't (some
> kind of ) animal lovers, we wouldn't be here, right?
I think you nailed it right on the head :)
tracy
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: stumbles
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:01:00 -0800
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Amber, the only thing I can tell you is to get a GOOD trainer to check
and see if this horse is travelling on the forehand. If the answer is
yes (which I suspect) the only permanent fix is training. Got to get
that weight transferred to the rear. I think I've read some responses
to your post along this line.
I had a horse like this and I sold him before he killed me. He used to
fall down on his knees all the time. Still does, but he hasn't ever
been taught to carry himself correctly. I started him myself when I
was even dumber than I am now and in those days I thought all training a
horse meant was teaching them to giddup, whoa, turn left and right and
back up. Gosh, you mean there's more???
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From: "Amber Knight" <ambrnite@fix.net>
To: <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Sources of Foods (Grains)
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:05:37 -0600
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YEA! Susan, that was a great reply!!! Obviously, you understand Equine
Nutrition!!
----------
> From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Sources of Foods (Grains)
> Date: Thursday, January 22, 1998 3:51 PM
>
> HELFTER 77 wrote:
> >
> > Sources of Foods
> >
> > Horse feeds are evolving toward processed forms with feed companies
using
> > "least cost" ingredients and manufacturing practices. Commercial feeds
may be
> > composed of soybean meal or cleanings and fines from cracked corn (by-
> > products) with molasses added to reduce dust and increase palatability
of
> > ingredients which would otherwise be discarded with a swish of the
upper lip
> > or one good snort, and understandably so.
>
> Geez, I have to admit it's a real pet peeve to read articles that try to
> scare people into thinking anything processed must be horrible. Least
> cost analysis doesn't mean the feed manufacturers are sweeping the floor
> and dumping trash into the mixing bins and calling it horse feed. If
> one feed source is equal to another in digestibility, nutrients and
> quality, using the more expensive feed anyway is just dumb. Yes, alot
> of horse feeds contain "by-products". Beet pulp, bran, soybean hulls,
> yeast, molasses, straw, etc are all by-products and they all are very
> well utilized and valuable animal feeds in the right proportions.
> Sometimes the only way to get a horse to eat any feed combination in the
> right amount is to pellet it---as an example, there's a hay shortage in
> the NW right now. Horses can't get by without some source of
> roughage---if good quality hay isn't available, good, clean straw,
> processed into a pellet with a little grain and molasses is a perfectly
> acceptable and nutritious hay substitute until hay is again available.
> If you tried just dumping straw in front of a horse, he may or may not
> eat it in adequate amounts. Assuming that anything a horse sorts
> through and discards if given the choice must be bad is...well, not
> exactly the best application of equine nutrition or physiology I've ever
> seen.
>
>
>
> > Sugar is as bad for horses as it is for any other species,
>
> Oh, please. The animal body RUNS primarily on sugar, mostly in the form
> of glucose. Without it, life stops. Period.
>
>
>
> and horses may
> > exhibit mood swings similarly seen in humans. Time and time again
horses calm
> > rapidly after molasses-sweetened feeds are removed from the diet.
>
> And you automatically attribute that in all cases to molasses? Yes,
> SOME horses do better without molasses in the diet. Just as many horses
> also exhibit sensitivity to specifically corn, barley, oats, milo, etc
> etc, or to protein levels, or allergies from another source. Such
> blanket, all-encompassing statements are fine for personal opinion, but
> in my opinion, shouldn't be offered as education.
>
>
>
> Molasses
> > also contains chemical preservatives or surfactants. Preservatives to
reduce
> > spoilage in the heat of the summer and surfactants such as propylene
glycol to
> > reduce congelation in the chill of the winter. Molasses and its baggage
bring
> > inconsistencies that we like to avoid.
>
> More vague, blanket statements that don't mean much. Please cite a
> single published, peer-reviewed journal article in which the specific
> preservatives you refer to used in processing have caused problems.
> Molasses itself is a preservative. Assuming you can find and cite even
> one such empirical study, now please compare that to the thousands upon
> thousand of animals and humans that have become sick and/or died as the
> results of molds, fungus, aflatoxins and bacteria ingested as the result
> of spoiled food.
>
>
>
> > Pelleted feeds are used as alternatives to sweet feeds and do not cause
the
> > increase in blood sugar that is associated with feeding molasses coated
> > grains.
>
> I disagree. The smaller the particle size, the faster the absorption in
> the small intestine and to a certain extent, the more like a simple
> sugar a feed is going to behave. Please review the journals.
>
>
> Grain
> > sources are where a number of amino acids and natural occurring trace
minerals
> > are retrieved.
>
> Amino acids are available from dozens of different sources, quite a few
> of them more bioavailable, not just from grains. And, actually, most of
> an herbivore's mineral requirements come from the forage, not the
> grains. But, whatever.
>
>
> With the methods of pelleting, even if the quality of the
> > grains are good to begin with, many of the nutrients are lost in
processing.
>
> Very often not. Many nutrients are made more digestible by processing.
> Some nutrients, such as the protein in soybean meal, isn't bioavailable
> UNTIL it's been heat-processed. Furthermore, you're grouping every
> method of "processing" under the same umbrella. For every nutritional
> disadvantage to processing, there is an equally important advantage.
> And finally, why are you assuming that nutrients are going to be lost
> through processing, but no oxidation ever takes place in the rolled,
> flaked, crimped grains you advocate? Feed manufacturers aren't entirely
> stupid--yes, some vitamin and protein content is going to be lost
> through heat processing---which is why it's added back in afterwards to
> make up for losses. Not so with grains that are simply cracked, flaked
> or whatever. If a label's guarenteed analysis says it provides X mg of
> this and Y ppm of that, you better believe it's there within a
> reasonable margin. USDA gets very, very fussy about things like that.
>
>
>
> > The philosophy behind a good quality feed is to make sure you see what
you are
> > getting. Therefore the best feeds are oats, barley and corn.
>
> So what you're saying is that you are capable of looking at a handful of
> grain and knowing exactly what level and quality of nutrition that feed
> provides? You can tell whether or not the grain is old and oxidized or
> not? And that any feed in a pellet form must be garbage because you
> can't individually see every nutrient in there? I've done analyses on
> whole grain samples that all looked and smelled equally as good---one
> was good quality feed, the other wasn't much more than garbage. No
> matter WHAT form you buy your feed in, to some extent, you're relying on
> the integrity and reputation of the feed company.
>
>
>
> A combination of
> > the three is the best providing a wide spectrum of amino acids and
trace
> > minerals. A mixture that works well consists of 45% oats (large
racehorse oats
> > or crimped oats); 30% steamed, rolled barley (the only form available
in
> > bulk); and 25% large cracked or flaked corn.
>
> Crimped, steamed, rolled, cracked, flaked...you mean "processed"? Why
> is this suddenly okay?
>
> Yes, COB is a good mixture of grains, but not a magic bullet and
> certainly no better, and in many ways worse, than a good quality,
> pelleted complete concentrate ration. For example, if corn/barley/oats
> were fed with orchard grass or oat hay (common in many parts of the
> country) you're feeding a badly inverted calcium-phosphorus ratio and
> are deficient in iron, selenium and zinc, vitamins D and E, and protein
> in a growing or lactating horse. A good complete pellet from a
> reputable company, on the other hand, can and will be balanced to
> provide all the nutrients a horse needs for a certain production level.
>
> However, in some areas quality of
> > the grains may be a concern and an adjustment of the ratios may be
made.
>
> And who is going to be the one to discern when and how this should be
> done? You're saying the average horse owner is going to be able to tell
> subtle differences in grain quality and are going to know how that's
> going to be able to affect their horse's nutrient profile, AND how to
> make allowances for those variations?
>
> > Contrary to popular belief, corn generates less heat when digested as
opposed
> > to other grain sources because corn contains less fiber and more
digestible
> > energy.
>
> True. In other words, corn is easily broken down to mono- and
> disaccharides and readily absorbed to a very large extent as simple
> sugars. So why is corn such a great feed, but "sugars are as bad for
> horses..."? I'm confused.
>
>
>
> > Hay constitutes the bulk of the horse's diet in the winter and, in some
areas
> > of the country, year round.
>
> Somebody please tell me where in the country hay is not the predominant
> component of a horse's diet, winter or not. Anybody not feeding some
> form of roughage as around 50% or more of the ration in a mature horse
> is asking for trouble.
>
>
>
> The horse's "fermentation vat" (cecum) needs long-
> > stem fiber and not chopped fiber such as the form found in hay cubes.
>
> What's the difference between realtively short chop fibers found in a
> hay cube and a mouthful of well-chewed, long-stem hay? Last I checked,
> hay doesn't reach the hindgut in the same form it went into the mouth.
> Yes, there are differences, advantages and disadvantages to feeding one
> form of forage and/or particle size over another, but if you're going to
> make such blanket statements, you should either explain those specific
> differences or not make the statement.
>
>
> > Digestion of short-stem fiber takes place primarily in the small
intestine,
> > leaving the cecum less full than it should be.
>
> I will agree that more ABSORPTION takes place in the small intestine,
> but fermentation of fiber still must take place in the cecum and large
> colon, regardless of the source. The above is a partially true
> statement, but is kinda missing the forest for the trees.
>
> I personally like feeding commodities to my own horses vs. complete
> feeds just because of the cost factor. But trying to scare people over
> heaven forbid, processing and chemicals and by-products, is in my
> opinion, irresponsible education and borderline yellow journalism. At
> Cal Poly, we use the blanket term Terrorist Nutrition, though at least
> this author wasn't blatently selling some product or another. Offering
> personal opinions on the advantages of one grain source over another is
> fine and more than welcome in this forum, but should either be clearly
> identified as such, or should include a much more thorough discussion
> and explanation of the empirical facts.
>
> Just my .02, of course.
>
> Susan Garlinghouse, BS, MSc. An. Sci.
> Equine Research Center
> Cal Poly University
>
le. Least
> cost analysis doesn't mean the feed manufacturers are sweeping the floor
> and dumping trash into the mixing bins and calling it horse feed. If
> one feed source is equal to another in digestibility, nutrients and
> quality, using the more expensive feed anyway is just dumb. Yes, alot
> of horse feeds contain "by-products". Beet pulp, bran, soybean h6322 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001661 06462301206 0013101 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from UPIMSSMTPSYS04 (upimssmtpsys04.email.msn.com [207.68.152.41]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA08252 for <RIDECAMP@ENDURANCE.NET>; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:56:17 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Barb Martineau" <mcshasa@email.msn.com>
To: <RIDECAMP@ENDURANCE.NET>
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Barb
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:49:39 -0800
From: susan <smw@sos.net>
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Hi all,
Well, after lurking on this list for nearly three years I finally
have something to ask.
I was absolutely stunned last winter when my husband told me to go pick
up my birthday present. After twenty three years of marriage I had given
up on the idea of him ever buying me a horse - especially since after
eighteen years of marriage I bought my own! I had not even been looking
for another horse, but he's heard me talk about endurance, and how I'd
really like to try it someday.......but my gelding is too lazy for it.
Anyway, he bought me an arab filly. She's now a yearling (though
her birthdate is not until late MAY) I want to bring her along slowly -
I do not plan to even ride her until she is a solid three. I am
experienced with horse training - but I would like to hear some tips on
how others have 'raised' their own LD mounts. Do you begin the
conditioning even before you ride? I have lovely access to miles of
trails that I could pony her on and my older gelding would allow me to
do that, but is there a benefit to doing so? Any other things you do
differently with endurance prospects?
Thanks, Susan
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:09:04 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield)
Subject: Stirrups too far forward on many English saddles
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I agree with you, Kimberley, after having gone through the great saddle
hunt 'merely' to find an English saddle that fits both me and the horse.
Found a beautiful Crosby event saddle for instance that I literally could
not post in! Couldn't get up and balanced. It was not me-another saddle I
tried the next day was completely different. And, no it wasn't that the
Crosby sat 'dowhill' on the horse's back, it was the stirrup location in
relation to the angle my leg drops down-I couldn't do anything but sit
'chairseat' in it.
I've been thinking about rider's hip angles and how we all sit differently
from one another and probably sit differently through the season as we
become stretched and loose ourselves. On some of the old military-style
saddles, I seem to recall that the girth could be moved forward or back
somewhat as it was suspended from two points. Why not have a stirrup 'bar'
that is a strap system with about 1-2 inches of adjustment. It would have
a little give and the whole thing could go at least as nicely under a small
flap as do the rigid stirrup bars of the current English saddles. (And
some of them have miserable lumps under your thighs as anyone who has
ridden a number of English saddles can attest to!) If it was a quick
adjust system we could then adjust the stirrups forward for any long
downhill stretches, way back for the long uphills and back to our usual
for the flat or mixed bits.
My perfect saddle would be treeless, have lots of attachment points but
look as "English" as possible so as to (try to) get away with it in shows.
And adjustable stirrups, of course!
Ann
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:05:37 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
CC: Kim <aliakey@geocities.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Mo' on molasses
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K S Swigart wrote:
>
> On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Kim wrote:
>
> > Sugar beet provides a lot of sugar to the US, and so the byproduct of
> > molasses you may be feeding your horse is probably from this source.
> > Unfortunately (which is probably why I'm unofficial), I do not have any
> > hard numbers about the % of molasses from cane and from sugar beet. Just
>
> According to the _Encyclopaedia Britanica_ (and information source that I
> consider to be eminently reliable)
>
> "molasses, syrup remianinag after sugar is cristalized out of cane or beet
> juice...Cane molasses usually contains about 14 percent invert sugar, a
> mixture of glucose and fructose, compared with about 1 percent in beet
> molasses."
>
> No that wasn't a typo, that's ONE percent in beet molasses.
Actually, different sources of molasses can contain widely varying
amounts of sugar. Sugar beet molasses used for feeds CAN contain a very
high % of sugars, 35% isn't uncommon. Saying molasses contains X amount
of sugar is kinda like saying alfalfa always contains 16% protein. It
varies.
>
> Which leads to the very real question. What is all the other stuff that
> is contained in molasses??? Everything else that is in the sugar
> cane/beet besides sugar (which has been processed out). Presumably this
> is all the vitamins, minerals, etc. that the plant picked up from the soil
> while it was growing.
About 30% water (this also varies), about 6-7% protein, a trace amount
of fats, about 8-10% is in minerals, small amounts of mostly B vitamin
complexes. The rest is, indeed, sugars. Which don't always taste
sweet, by the way. Feed molasses is quite high in sulfur, which tastes
nasty.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 23:15:21 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
REPLY TO 01/23/98 19:08 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
I'm okay with rides being a family affair -- as long as I can bring MY
family too, my dog Bailey. (I don't mind leaving the snakes at home, as
they don't travel well anyway.) She's clean, neat, quiet, well-behaved,
and under my control at all times, no matter where we are.
Some people don't like dogs. I can understand and live with that. I
personally don't like children. However, I am willing to tolerate your
well-behaved children at camp if you are willing to tolerate my well-behaved
dog. :))
The Snodgrass Family
Glenda, Lakota (equine) & Bailey (canine)
Ruby, Charlie, Jerry & Wilson (serpentine)
In Memory Of: Simon & Sarafina (lizardine)
-------
Glenda, I have to take exception to this, as dogs ARE NOT people!
Much as I love my dogs, I sure don't expect other folks to! If you
don't like to "tolerate" peoples children, then stay at home!
My daughter comes to the endurance rides and RIDES! If I pay the
$70 or so dollars for her SHE is entitled to be there! If I choose
to pay the dinner $ for my son, then HE is entitled to be there!
If the rule says no dogs, then your dog should stay home.
I dislike ill-mannered dogs AND children, and will take strong
measures to ensure that my dogs and kids don't ruin anyone elses
day. But the only way to guarantee my dog won't annoy somebody at a
ride is to leave it at home. How do I know what my dog is doing
(well trained it might be), if I am out on a ride all day!!?
Becuase rides are "family affairs"; give you no right to bring your
dog, especially if the rule say no dogs! You might FEEL like your
dog is family (I do), but you sure can't pass it off as that.
While millions of people may feel their dogs are as important as
children, there is a world of difference.
Karen
Now my .02 on dogs on rides. Absolutely no dogs at endurance rides!
I am sick to death of being annoyed by dogs barking early in the
morning and later while their owners are out on the trail. I am
annoyed by the wandering loose dogs, because my CHILDREN are at
some of the rides, and I don't trust dogs I don't personally know,
not to bite. I am tired of dogs into my food trucks and peeing on
my possessions.
On the other hand, I greatly enjoy taking my dog on training
rides, and am lucky to live in a county with thousands of acres of
BLM land, and permission from the BLM folks! I find having the dogs
along has been the best training for the horses-running under the
horses, jumping and crashing out of bushes, will de-spook horses in
a hurry! I have a dog that absolutely will not run wildlife; he has
had deer and rabbits jump right in front of him and he just follows
me! I disagree with the poster that claimed dogs would rather stay
at home and sleep. Perhaps mine would, since he is getting older,
but I know other dogs that like for the horseback rides.
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:41:17 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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To: Ann Hatfield <keithr@nocdc.bc.ca>
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Subject: Fore&Aft stirrup adjustment
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Ann Hatfield wrote:
>
> I agree with you, Kimberley, after having gone through the great saddle
> hunt 'merely' to find an English saddle that fits both me and the horse.
> Found a beautiful Crosby event saddle for instance that I literally could
> not post in! Couldn't get up and balanced. It was not me-another saddle I
> tried the next day was completely different. And, no it wasn't that the
> Crosby sat 'dowhill' on the horse's back, it was the stirrup location in
> relation to the angle my leg drops down-I couldn't do anything but sit
> 'chairseat' in it.
>
> I've been thinking about rider's hip angles and how we all sit differently
> from one another and probably sit differently through the season as we
> become stretched and loose ourselves. On some of the old military-style
> saddles, I seem to recall that the girth could be moved forward or back
> somewhat as it was suspended from two points. Why not have a stirrup 'bar'
> that is a strap system with about 1-2 inches of adjustment. It would have
> a little give and the whole thing could go at least as nicely under a small
> flap as do the rigid stirrup bars of the current English saddles. (And
> some of them have miserable lumps under your thighs as anyone who has
> ridden a number of English saddles can attest to!) If it was a quick
> adjust system we could then adjust the stirrups forward for any long
> downhill stretches, way back for the long uphills and back to our usual
> for the flat or mixed bits.
>
> My perfect saddle would be treeless, have lots of attachment points but
> look as "English" as possible so as to (try to) get away with it in shows.
> And adjustable stirrups, of course!
>
> Ann It's mind-boggling that such an adjustment has not been on every
saddle since Genghis Khan.God bless the English,they're the dumbest of us
all.MY SADDLE HAS IT-NOW."But they MADE it this way!""You're not
developing the proper seat!"(to fit this stupid saddle design)...Get your
tools out,talk to some craftsman friend-probably not a saddle maker,and
make it happen.Look at a high performance motorcycle-not a cruiser-and
see where the foot pegs are relative to the riders buns.I didn't think
I'd ever be able to ride a horse after my first lessons-the stirrups
were hung so far forward...If the saddle makers of the world made
computers,we'd still be using the abacus...."we've always done it THIS
way"...
et>; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 05:56:20 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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From: "Kathy Roberts" <kathyr@up.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: dogs
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:15:51 -0500
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Hi,
I had to jump into this dog thing. I have a German Shep. that has
been obedience trained and is retired from search and rescue work.
Because she's a Ger. Sh. she is viewed differently than say a golden
retriever. Hence, once she got her adult teeth I never allowed her
to mouth me. Under no circumstances was her teeth to ever come into
contact with human skin. When a Golden mouths it's cute and viewed
as playing - when a Shepherd does it it's viewed as an unwarranted
attack. I also never fed Garbo from my hand. I don't have children
but knew she would be around kids. She can go to a picnic and have
kids running all around her with pbj's and candy and never once tries
to take anything out of their hand. The rule here is if it drops on
the ground it's hers unless the child wants it back. When she was a
puppy, I trained her to my whistle to come back to me no matter what.
If we are out in the woods and we startle deer one whistle will stop
her in her tracks and she comes back to me.
Regardless of all this I would not take her on a ride. Just because
I enjoy my dog's company doesn't mean everyone else will. But the
main reason is I can't count on the training of the other dogs that
might be there so I leave her at home.
Kathy, Cedar and Garbo
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:38:48 -0700
Message-ID: <01bd28de$29a87ac0$LocalHost@willard>
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>((Sandy wrote:)
>Okay - I know a way to have everyone fell really good about the fees at
rides
>AND the really tough job RMs have in planning these rides for us to enjoy -
go
>to a rated Arabian or Saddlebred show. Check out their costs and don't
forget
>to count trainers fees. monthly training fees, stall fees, office fee
>(whatever the heck THAT is - new in 1989), tarnsport fees, 'handling fees
(now
>that you have paid for your horse to be traiend ALL MONTH, you ALSO get to
pay
>for the traienr to now HANDLE you horse), etc. You get my drift? Trust me,
you
>will come aaway thinking "Oh my goodness gracious sakes alive! How LUCKY I
am!
>ANd how much more FUN I have!" Just a thought. Let me know who goes.
>san
I'm so glad you wrote it that way. Even the so-called training shows cost
LOTS! I started out with hunter-jumpers and the barn's training/boarding
fee was $500 per month. This was just for basics. If you wanted anything
extra-ie. turnouts, supplements, extra riding time in arena, wash rack
usage, etc. -that cost extra too. This lady also charged for trailering and
then once you were at the show, she required that she rode your horse in at
least two classes as warmup, and of course, charged training fees for these
too. Also, the show fees ran anywhere from $5(training show) to $35.00 per
class.
Also, don't forget to add in all those special clothes that seem to cost
more than your house payment. Boots, breeches, coat, hat, gloves etc. Then
if you want to ride Western, you also have to have special outfits for that.
Boots, chaps, shirts, hats, gloves, etc... Heaven forbid that you ride in
anything outdated >G<
Fortunately, or unfortunately as the case may be, we could never come up
with these kind of funds.
My husband and I sat down together one night and added up all these costs
and realized that we could have a LOT more fun if we bought two horses that
we could use as a family and keep at home so that we could ride when we
wanted, do what we wanted with them, and save a HECK of a LOT of money.
Endurance ride fees seem pretty affordable compared to that. Now if I could
just come up
with a way to make my budget want to afford more of them <G>
Carrie and Buddy
(Husband) Craig--(I thought we were just going to ride around the block
dear?)
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:42:33 -0700
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Sorry-I forgot this part.
The lady that owned that barn told me that if I couldn't afford at least a
$7500. horse, then I would not be able to compete. Gasp! (Left in a hurry!)
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:06:46 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: sumralls@gateway.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Saddles for endurance
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sumralls wrote:
> I finally after many, many months and many, many saddles later settled on
> a Courbette Marschall Special but had to order the extra wide tree. It
> is an all-purpose/dressage model, nice knee roll, very deep, padded seat,
> and of course it's pretty.
My husband uses this same saddle for hunting. It IS pretty, it is well
constructed, comfortable, and quite secure. It allows a more upright,
balanced posture than the forward (or jumping) saddles. The one thing I
have against it is that the panels are foam blocked rather than stuffed
with traditional packing. The saddle repairman we took it to after a
good deal of riding said it wasn't worth restuffing. We talked him into
doing a traditional job and we have it reflocked regularly.
The panels on an English saddle DO wear down.. We plan on reflocking
about every 1500 miles or so of combination training & competition.
Mike ultimately inherited my old Hook endurance saddle when it didn't
fit my new horse. The Courbette Marschall Special goes fox hunting &
for dressage lessons, now.
Linda Flemmer
Blue WOlf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
urbette Marschall Special but had to order the extra wide tree. It
> is an all-purpose/dressag6332 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003445 06462412521 0013107 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from Forsythe.Stanford.EDU (forsythe.Stanford.EDU [36.54.0.16]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA28095 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:22:37 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 98 08:20:37 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Not MY dog!
REPLY TO 01/24/98 02:50 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Not MY dog!
From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
Since every single person INSISTS that THEIR dogs are not the
out-of-control ones, then WHO owns these dogs that are running around
peeing on the hay, begging at the table, and generally being a pain in
the ass??? Think about it now, have any of you EVER heard anyone say
"Well yeah, I bring my dogs to rides and I let them run wild." These
people are idiots and you can't legislate stupidity. Even if you rule
that dogs are not allowed, they bring them anyway. The only way to end
this behavior is to DQ them from the ride if they don't follow the dog
rules, just like any other ride rule.
If dogs are well behaved (read confined and quiet) they should pose no
problems at rides and I'm sure no one will mind. If we weren't (some
kind of ) animal lovers, we wouldn't be here, right?
-------------
Well, let me ask all of you this? You take just about any dog, no
matter how well trained, that is used to going along with his owner
on horseback. Take that dog to a ride, and suddenly the owner
leaves the dog in camp while he rides away. 9 out of 10 dogs are
going to whine, bark or howl. What about the rest of folks in camp?
Our spouses and kids. Do they want to have to listen to that?
Your point is well taken,though, NOBODY is willing to admit their
dog is an annoyance.
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:15:37 -0500
From: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
Subject: AERC Convention
Sender: Janice Taylor <JANUSTUDIO@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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<Oh and by the way, I 'm looking for a Horse and trailer if you hear of
any.>
I have a horse you might be interested in with good racing and endurance
lines, but he needs work. He's more than I care to handle. Professional=
ly
trained using dressage, jumping and some trail work. All I want is his
training fees. $1500 Non registered Arab, 8 yr. 15+ H. Located KY
Jan
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Message-ID: <34CA18F4.4E8B@fea.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:38:12 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: susan <smw@sos.net>
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susan wrote:
Do you begin the
> conditioning even before you ride? I have lovely access to miles of
> trails that I could pony her on and my older gelding would allow me to
> do that, but is there a benefit to doing so? Any other things you do
> differently with endurance prospects?
I know a few people who pony "youngsters" while on trail. Two, that I
know have been ponied since they were foals. They got experience in all
sorts of terrain and built up muscles that would be needed when carrying
riders. They are now both being ridden and are excellent trail horses.
It is much better to build up their muscles and surefootedness then sit
idle in a stall or flat (terrain) pasture all day. You want a good
endurance horse? Then start exposing them now.
Lauren
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:53:35 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: Sullys Maze <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
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I think we should ALL be more TOLERANT and forgiving of everything!
Treat each case on an individual basis. If one person has consistently
broke any rules then deal with that person individually and not "punish"
the group.
As for Karen saying "Dogs are not people" True. But you have to
remember that to some people their dogs are their children and they love
them and care for them as such. There are people who spend thousands on
their dogs and grieve the same as if your child died.
As, for kids...and I have brought mine... I say they can and more often
are worse then any dogs behavior in camp.
Lauren
P.S. To Dog Lovers: This is a wake up call! If you want to continue to
bring your dog to rides you MUST be more conscientious and courteous.
This means picking up after your dog, and possibly other dogs too,
keeping them restrained and if you have a barker, either get a bark
collar or leave them home.
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From: "Barbara Vogt" <bvogt@pahrump.com>
Subject: riding boots
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 23:45:06 PST
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Hi, Glenda asked about the Vasque boots - I have a pair,like you
described-they are the gortex ,I bought them over 6 yrs. ago and use them
quite hard-they"re wonderful ,I broke my ankle a few yrs. before and they
provide plenty of support , There was never any prob. with the heel.I also
have a pair of ropers-leather,they are a yr. old and are quite comfortable
I would recomend either of these boots-- Jo Poe
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 09:18:02 -0800
Subject: I want a horse
Message-ID: <19980124.091805.8862.0.krisolko@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Actually it's my neighbor. She's looking for a NATRC / pleasure trail
horse. She
wants a younger Arab. It needs to be trained, but it doesn't have to be
push button.
It doesn't need to have miles or anything. It does need to be a laid back
type. She's
located in Temecula Ca and is willing to drive up to 4 hours away. She's
willing to
pay up to $2500, but of course lower is okay.
Send all info to me and I'll give it to her.
Kris
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <80db0abf.34ca3163@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:22:24 EST
To: delvecchio@geocities.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Regarding Rump Rugs!
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The first one I owned I won It was beautiful and had
leg wraps and a tail wrap to match.It went under the
saddle over the horses rump.It was impossible to roll
up due to the fact most of it was under the saddle.
the next one made by the same lady with much
improvement was square folded to tri fold had large
grommets to tie, braid, glue or snap to saddle. It was
made of Polar Fleece facing the horses rump and a
waterproof top, also an extra piece with grommets that
was waterproof so that at the half way on a rainy day you
could cover your saddle expensive but nice.BUT it bounced
around from on side to the other often unbalanced.a friend
added nylon straps with plastic snaps that went to my
billets or girth area.This snugged it down. Now I had to snap
warp,tie and buckle.It does work. But went out and bought
what looked like an easy solution.Actually two different designed
ones.Went under the saddle tappered back over horses rump.
Same problem, even though i kept getting closer, it was close
but no cigar. Than I decided to design what I wanted and found
a seamstress to sew it.I used it all last year getting the bugs out
which were few, thank God. It has a piece that goes under the
saddle not wide, then comes back so you can tri fold it.There is
no binding to cause bulk under the saddle,Has all no fray stitching
easy roll-up held with nylon straps and velcro. We are now trying
the light weight plastic snaps. This lady Joan Jenkins of Harvard,MA
loves horses and sewing for them.We got together and formed Equine
Designs.Neck and ear warmers, over the helmet warmers.Arabian
fancy show bridles all hand braided, lead lines, dog collars and leashs
Polar Fleece blankets, braided reins etc. All the work is hand made.
Marcy
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From: "Ann Perry" <ann@cornerstonemgt.com>
To: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: re: picket lines
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:08:59 -0800
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Just read Lucy's bad picket line story and thought I'd come out of lurk mode
for a minute. I've never used a picket line, but have had problems with
tying to the trailer--line gets caught under fender, horse panics and pulls
back, breaking snap, making people sleeping in camper think it's an
earthquake, etc. I'd get a Horsin' Around corral if I could justify/afford
it; but until then what about a picket line? They do look like an accident
waiting to happen. All that rope AND a horse! However, last year in
Endurance News there was info on a picket system you can buy that uses
pulleys and weights to keep the slack out of the halter rope. Looked like it
might help. I have the info (somewhere) and will try to find it if anyone's
interested. I most likely will try it myself this summer. Has anybody seen
or used it?
Back to lurk mode,
Ann
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:04:57 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "C.M.Newell" <reshan@deyr.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Not MY dog!
In-Reply-To: <199801241622.IAA28095@fsr.com>
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>-------------
>Well, let me ask all of you this? You take just about any dog, no
>matter how well trained, that is used to going along with his owner
>on horseback. Take that dog to a ride, and suddenly the owner
>leaves the dog in camp while he rides away. 9 out of 10 dogs are
>going to whine, bark or howl...
You've made an excellent point. There have been occasions when I have
been at a hold/finish line which is back at the start, waiting for riders,
and had to listen to this incessant barking and whining. More than once, I
have been *very* tempted to pull a bottle of ace out of my truck and drug
them senseless. Haven't given in yet, but I think about it....<G>
--CMNewell, DVM
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:29:46 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: susan <smw@sos.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: bringing up baby
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susan wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> Well, after lurking on this list for nearly three years I finally
> have something to ask.
> I was absolutely stunned last winter when my husband told me to go pick
> up my birthday present. After twenty three years of marriage I had given
> up on the idea of him ever buying me a horse - especially since after
> eighteen years of marriage I bought my own! I had not even been looking
> for another horse, but he's heard me talk about endurance, and how I'd
> really like to try it someday.......but my gelding is too lazy for it.
> Anyway, he bought me an arab filly. She's now a yearling (though
> her birthdate is not until late MAY) I want to bring her along slowly -
> I do not plan to even ride her until she is a solid three. I am
> experienced with horse training - but I would like to hear some tips on
> how others have 'raised' their own LD mounts. Do you begin the
> conditioning even before you ride? I have lovely access to miles of
> trails that I could pony her on and my older gelding would allow me to
> do that, but is there a benefit to doing so? Any other things you do
> differently with endurance prospects?
>
> Thanks, Susan
Susan, just one suggestion you might consider (I'm sure plenty of people
much more experienced than me in conditioning will help you out as well)
is taking your baby out to see lots of nice sights. When you start
going to endurance rides, there are going to be a ton of distractions,
scary things, etc. If your horse is already ho-hum about those sorts of
things, your recoveries and enjoyment will just be that much better. I
take my "kids" (two, count'em, two whole homebred babies) over to the
equestrian center during shows and just walk them around and let them
stare. Walk them past every scarey thing you can find, especially
blowing tarps, clanking buckets, galloping horses, whatever.
Telliongton methods are very helpful to keep them moving and keep
walking back and forth until they do so calmly. It made a really big
difference in Katy's behavior when she finally grew up, it's something
you can do with a baby right now and while she's growing up, and it puts
no strain on young legs.
Good luck and see you out there in a few years. Let us all know how
you're doing.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Message-ID: <34CA4724.2A4D@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 11:55:16 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: yet mo' on molasses
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Just in case anyone was up half the night tossing and turning over the
sugar content in molasses, I dragged out my feed processing text book
and this is what it said:
Molasses is just a syrup by-product extracted from sugar cane, sugar
beets, citrus pulp, the starch derived from corns and other grains and
as a pentose-hexose syrup left over from processing wood to wood pulp in
the paper manufacturing process.
Although the water content can vary, for commercial uses, water content
is adjusted to right around 25%. (It CAN also be dehydrated further for
special feed usages, but that's not the stuff usually used for horses).
The sugar contents of molasses are:
Cane molasses: ~ 46%
Sugar Beet molasses: ~ 48%
Citrus molasses ~45%
starch molasses ~50%
wood molasses ~55%
So sugar beet molasses, therefore has a content that is approximately:
water 25%
sugars 48%
proteins 7%
ash (minerals) 9%
vitamins - trace
fats - .2%
This adds up to more or less 90%, but my numbers came from several
different sources, so differences in standard deviations probably
accounts for the other ten percent.
If molasses doesn't taste all that sweet, just remember that the human
taste is accustomed to much sweeter flavors than molasses, so it's going
to taste more bitter than it would to a horse. Also, the relatively
high mineral content can give a bitter taste, AND not all sugars
necessarily taste sweet---for example, most people wouldn't call mashed
potatoes "sweet", but they are high in starch, which is just the plant's
storage form of glucose. The body breaks those polysaccharides down in
digestions and shazam, simple sugars. When people talk about a "complex
carbohydrate", all that is is a long string of sugars that the digestive
system has to break down before they can be absorbed as simple sugars.
Ever chewed a mouthful of bread for a long time and noticed a slightly
sweet taste in your mouth developing? That's because the enzymes in
human saliva start to break down the complex carbos in bread down to
simple sugars---as soon as the glucose molecule is freed from the carbo,
it tastes sweet in your mouth.
The same applies to corn (and other grains) being fed to horses---corn
is very high in starch, a soluble carbohydrate, which hits the
bloodstream as primarily glucose. So, you do the math---if you feed a
kilogram of sweet feed that is 25% corn and 5% molasses, are any "mood
swings" going to be due to the 48% sugar content in the 50 grams of
molasses you're providing (call it 24 grams of sugar), or from the
approximately 50% sugar content of the 250 grams of corn you're feeding
(call it about 125 grames)? Assuming I haven't messed up my numbers
(check me, Duncan), it sure seems to me that the body is getting ten
times as much glucose in the body directly from corn than it is from
molasses. And that's aside from the additional sugars provided from any
other grain sources, including oats and barley (their carbo content is
lower, but still significant). The body doesn't care where the simple
carbos come from, and there's no difference in how glucose from grain is
processed vs. glucose from molasses. It's only the proportions in the
original feed that are different, and feeding a horse corn/oats/barley
is HARDLY removing sugars from his ration. And a good thing, too.
Seeya,
Susan Garlinghouse
6343 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002501 06462456664 0013121 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from bos1d.delphi.com (SYSTEM@bos1d.delphi.com [199.93.4.4]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09728 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:31:27 -0800 (PST)
From: LIZSZELIGA@delphi.com
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24 Jan 1998 16:29:23 EST
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:29:23 -0500 (EST)
Subject: trailers: Gore vs. Featherlight
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Message-id: <01ISRFEHI22A94FX32@delphi.com>
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A friend of mine is looking at two late model used trailers,
and is looking for help in comparing the two. Any input would
be appreciated. Price on each is about $8,000; she is trying
to determine which is the best value. Either would suit her
needs. Both are in comparable condition.
Trailer 1 is a 1996 Gore alum. skin over a steel frame. Two
horse straight tag along with a dressing room.
Trailer 2 is a 1991 Featherlight all aluminum, two horse
straight tag along, with no dressing room. There is very light
use on it.
The real question is how Featherlight and Gore compare, quality
wise, through the years.
Your comments are welcome and appreciated.
Liz in Belchertown, MA
lizszeliga@delphi.com
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 16:48:55 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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Subject: Sharon Saare Saddle For Sale
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I have a Sharon Saare Super Lite, size B tree, saddle for sale. Saddle looks new and is in
great shape. Let me know if you are interested.
Located in NE Alabama.
Dee
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:32:19 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: bringing up baby
In-Reply-To: <34CA331A.24DF@worldnet.att.net>
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For de-sensitizing horses, what I've found very useful is to spend
Saturday and Sunday afternoons lazily walking around in middle-income
subdivisions -- dogs running around barking, kids playing in the yards,
throwing balls in the streets, lawn mowers, bicycles, Hot Wheels,
4-wheelers, laundry flapping in the wind, Mom washing the car in the
driveway, cars driving slowly down the street, you name it -- distractions
galore! but no real danger, like riding alongside busy paved roads. I
refer to these sessions as "mental exercise" and I really think it helps.
Glenda & Lakota
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:38:26 -0600
To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net, susan <smw@sos.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: bringing up baby
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <34CA331A.24DF@worldnet.att.net>
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Ponying your baby alongside another horse is another good way to get her
used to going out. You can get her used to traffic and other scary things
this way.
chris paus &star
At 10:29 AM 1/24/98 -0800, Susan Evans Garlinghouse wrote:
>susan wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Well, after lurking on this list for nearly three years I finally
>> have something to ask.
>> I was absolutely stunned last winter when my husband told me to go pick
>> up my birthday present. After twenty three years of marriage I had given
>> up on the idea of him ever buying me a horse - especially since after
>> eighteen years of marriage I bought my own! I had not even been looking
>> for another horse, but he's heard me talk about endurance, and how I'd
>> really like to try it someday.......but my gelding is too lazy for it.
>> Anyway, he bought me an arab filly. She's now a yearling (though
>> her birthdate is not until late MAY) I want to bring her along slowly -
>> I do not plan to even ride her until she is a solid three. I am
>> experienced with horse training - but I would like to hear some tips on
>> how others have 'raised' their own LD mounts. Do you begin the
>> conditioning even before you ride? I have lovely access to miles of
>> trails that I could pony her on and my older gelding would allow me to
>> do that, but is there a benefit to doing so? Any other things you do
>> differently with endurance prospects?
>>
>> Thanks, Susan
>
>
>Susan, just one suggestion you might consider (I'm sure plenty of people
>much more experienced than me in conditioning will help you out as well)
>is taking your baby out to see lots of nice sights. When you start
>going to endurance rides, there are going to be a ton of distractions,
>scary things, etc. If your horse is already ho-hum about those sorts of
>things, your recoveries and enjoyment will just be that much better. I
>take my "kids" (two, count'em, two whole homebred babies) over to the
>equestrian center during shows and just walk them around and let them
>stare. Walk them past every scarey thing you can find, especially
>blowing tarps, clanking buckets, galloping horses, whatever.
>Telliongton methods are very helpful to keep them moving and keep
>walking back and forth until they do so calmly. It made a really big
>difference in Katy's behavior when she finally grew up, it's something
>you can do with a baby right now and while she's growing up, and it puts
>no strain on young legs.
>
>Good luck and see you out there in a few years. Let us all know how
>you're doing.
>
>Susan Garlinghouse
>
>
>
>
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Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:40:56 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Subject: Re: bringing up baby
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Another helpful thing is if you can find a safely fenced pasture that is
on a busy street, with a few old timers or mom there. Gets them over
the traffic boogers pretty quickly.
tracy
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Message-ID: <34CA8FBE.FAF849AF@cyberspy.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:05:03 -0500
From: "Frank W. Vans Evers" <vans@cyberspy.com>
Reply-To: vans@cyberspy.com
Organization: Frank's Repairs
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To: Ann Perry <ann@cornerstonemgt.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
References: <000a01bd28fb$8a70ea00$70e5c9d0@default>
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If yu have room for a picket line, what about a light chain and a ground
stake? A chain won't bunch up around a horses feet, a 10 foot chain give
a 20' circle, what do you think?
/s/ Frank (seffner Florida)
--------
Ann Perry wrote:
>
> Just read Lucy's bad picket line story and thought I'd come out of lurk mode
> for a minute. I've never used a picket line, but have had problems with
> tying to the trailer--line gets caught under fender, horse panics and pulls
> back, breaking snap, making people sleeping in camper think it's an
> earthquake, etc. I'd get a Horsin' Around corral if I could justify/afford
> it; but until then what about a picket line? They do look like an accident
> waiting to happen. All that rope AND a horse! However, last year in
> Endurance News there was info on a picket system you can buy that uses
> pulleys and weights to keep the slack out of the halter rope. Looked like it
> might help. I have the info (somewhere) and will try to find it if anyone's
> interested. I most likely will try it myself this summer. Has anybody seen
> or used it?
>
> Back to lurk mode,
> Ann
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Frank W. Vans Evers
mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
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From: Biko N Me <BikoNMe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b234c5f.34caaec9@aol.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 22:17:26 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Thoroughbreds
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
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Hello,
Are Thoroughbreds good for Endurance?????
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Reply-To: <limberlost@worldnet.att.net>
From: "Randall Aldridge" <limberlost@worldnet.att.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Sandblast Ride
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:52:15 -0600
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Hi all,
Just an update about our ride. The Sandblast Endurance Ride is Feb. 21,
l998 in Athens, TX at the Clemons Boy Scout Ranch. Due to circumstances
the ride will not be published in the Endurance News before our ride date;
however, THE RIDE IS SANCTIONED BY AERC. When we were marking trail a few
weeks ago following heavy rain (about 10 inches) the trails were great.
Footing was good, just a few boggy spots but nothing bad. Actually the
footing was better in some spots w/the rain packing down the sand. Keeping
fingers crossed for good weather.
Thanks for all the requests for entries. If anyone still needs an entry
let me know & send me your address.
Just a note about the dog thing. Unfortunately the Boy Scout Ranch will
not allow dogs on the property. This means if you bring a dog you will not
be allowed in. This is their rule, not ours. The ranch is a game preserve
(as some of you will find out on the pig trail) & they will not allow dogs.
For us to be able to use this location we must abide by their rules.
Personally I do not have a problem w/dogs at rides as long as they are well
behaved but I agree w/most of you that too many people let their dogs run
riot at camp.
Anyway, enough of that. If anyone has any questions about our ride, let me
know.
Happy trails & hope to see you there,
Christina
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:31:46 -0500
From: George deLong <71234.3361@compuserve.com>
Subject: dogs
Sender: George deLong <71234.3361@compuserve.com>
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We now have six dogs at home, and have always had dogs....In all the years
we have been to rides, they have never gone with us. Th reasons are
obvious and have been stated clearly .
I do remember a couple times that there were dogs in camp that werent
problems though. On the outlaw trail one year, one of the riders dogs went
the whole 26o miles without som much as a peep or a misstep. Wouldnt stay
in camp and followed the rider the whole way. Sopmeone else had a
wonderful little schipperke on a retractable lead that was a joy to be
around and never caused any trouble. And then of course Trilby always has
a "good dog" in her van.
but then it onoy takes one to mess up the fun for all. My wife and i like
to think of ourselves a pretty good dog handlers (she has three Ud degreed
dogs under her belt), but we never would take the cnhnce to bring the dogs
along.
The closes we ever came was taking ourt wenty year old siamese cat on the
outlaw trail. he stayed in the truck with the crew.
osition: inline
We now have six dogs at home, and have always had dogs....In all the years
we have been to rides, they have never gone with us. Th reasons are
obvious and have been stated clearly .
I do remember a couple times that there were dogs in camp that werent
problems though. On the outlaw trail one yea6352 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005304 06462552243 0013113 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo12.mx.aol.com (imo12.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.166]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24715 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 21:58:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <292d6d57.34cad426@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 00:56:52 EST
To: grs@consider.theneteffect.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
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In a message dated 98-01-24 06:29:22 EST, you write:
<< Some people don't like dogs. I can understand and live with that. I
personally don't like children. However, I am willing to tolerate your
well-behaved children at camp if you are willing to tolerate my well-behaved
dog. :))
-------
Glenda, I have to take exception to this, as dogs ARE NOT people!
Much as I love my dogs, I sure don't expect other folks to! If you
don't like to "tolerate" peoples children, then stay at home! >>
Glenda, had to write you here because just as soon as I read your original
post I knew you were gonna get flamed. I am a parent (of a human child!<g>)
myself, but let me tell you, I hear what you are saying!!! As often as I've
ever been bothered by a dog who was noisy at inappropriate times, who ran wild
and loose about camp, who came over and messed with my stuff, and who proved
bothersome if not downright dangerous to the horses (as well as itself)--well,
AT LEAST that often have I experienced some other campers kids acting this
way.
Now, children are rambunctious things, no one needs to tell me that. As
Grandma Moses or someone) once said: "God put the wiggle in your child. Don't
try to take it out!" I agree here. Children need to be able to run, make
noise, and play. I am not talking about that. But I know that I am not the
only one who has been frustrated by rude, obnoxious, out of control children
at rides. Not only is it frustrating--it can be dangerous. Horses are
creatures which react first, think later. When combined with kids who are
behaving thusly, results can be disasterous. Misbehaving kids do not belong
in ride camps. The tragedy is, most of these kids have parents who thing
their little precious is an angel, and are indignant if you suggest that they
control their child. So I guess there is no solution here.
Anyway, just want you to know that there are those of us out here--even
those that are parents--who "hear you!"
Trish & "pretty David" & River the well behaved camp dog, and Brandy, the even
better behaved camp kid (who knows that if HER mother ever gets a complaint
from a fellow camper about her behavior, she is gonna be one sorry kid . . .)
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From: "Bruce Overton" <boverton@tpgi.com.au>
To: "endurance" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Slow Recovery- Heart Rate
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:50:08 +1100
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Any suggestions??
Have a 10 yo Arabian gelding who is fit endurance wise except that his
heart rate on completion of training after 30 minutes is very high for a
horse at his stage of fitness.For example his pulse is well over
60,sometimes as high as 70 after 30 minutes of recovery time when he has
been on a 35k training ride.
This horse had a good record in endurance 3 years ago until he injured his
shoulder. He was turned out to let the injury heal and he now shows no sign
of lameness. Chiropracter has visited twice and can find no signs of muscle
or bone trouble. The horse eats well, is always keen to go during training.
The only problem I can discern during exercise on the training track is a
tendency to crab both ways while trotting. This could indicate some
soreness but it has been checked out by the Chiro.
The weather has been hot and sticky and the training tracks are relative
difficult. However my other horse and this one in previous years would
recover to the mid forties with the same conditions.
Bruce from Downunder
Queenslander
boverton@tpgi.com.au
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: "Bruce Overton" <boverton@tpgi.com.au>,
"endurance" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Slow Recovery- Heart Rate
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 09:57:48 +0200
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Hi Bruce,
This isnt an experts opinion, but if he is fit and before the injury his
pulse dropped to the low 40's, it could mean he is still sore. What is the
resting pulse?.
----------
> From: Bruce Overton <boverton@tpgi.com.au>
> To: endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: Slow Recovery- Heart Rate
> Date: 25 January 1998 07:50
>
> Any suggestions??
>
> Have a 10 yo Arabian gelding who is fit endurance wise except that his
> heart rate on completion of training after 30 minutes is very high for a
> horse at his stage of fitness.For example his pulse is well over
> 60,sometimes as high as 70 after 30 minutes of recovery time when he has
> been on a 35k training ride.
> This horse had a good record in endurance 3 years ago until he injured
his
> shoulder. He was turned out to let the injury heal and he now shows no
sign
> of lameness. Chiropracter has visited twice and can find no signs of
muscle
> or bone trouble. The horse eats well, is always keen to go during
training.
> The only problem I can discern during exercise on the training track is a
> tendency to crab both ways while trotting. This could indicate some
> soreness but it has been checked out by the Chiro.
>
> The weather has been hot and sticky and the training tracks are relative
> difficult. However my other horse and this one in previous years would
> recover to the mid forties with the same conditions.
>
> Bruce from Downunder
> Queenslander
> boverton@tpgi.com.au
>
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: "Biko N Me" <BikoNMe@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:02:40 +0200
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NO
----------
> From: Biko N Me <BikoNMe@aol.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Thoroughbreds
> Date: 25 January 1998 05:17
>
> Hello,
> Are Thoroughbreds good for Endurance?????
>
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From: dpfreed@webtv.net (David Freed)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 06:49:46 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Advice
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Hello everyone. Has anyone had experience taking an accomplished
endurance horse that has been out to pasture for more than two years and
reconditioning them? This horse is 8 years old and too easy a keeper:
she has way too much weight and her back has even begun to sway a bit.
If the weight comes off and we do belly lifts, cavaletti, etc... do you
think that back will recover? thanks for any input! jan
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From: Lthunter <Lthunter@aol.com>
Message-ID: <b23e5d6.34cb5729@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:15:51 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Home Fly Spray
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I found an article in a horse magazine for home fly spray. Can anybody tell
me if they used it and is it safe. The only problem I have with it is the
Citronella. It states it's combustable. Here is the recipe.
1 oz Citronella Oil
2 oz Skin So Soft (Avon)
1 cup Vinegar
1 cup Water
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From: Lthunter <Lthunter@aol.com>
Message-ID: <707067ca.34cb5827@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:20:05 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: What to feed?
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I just moved from Texas to Florida in Pasco County. I was shocked at the
amount of money they get for the feed here. I use to feed Costal Hay (free
choice), and Omelene 200. Now I feed a pellet 12% nothing special and mineral
supplement. The horses were on pasture to run as they choose. Now my husband
and I have the horses boarded until we find some land close enough to Tampa
because of work and easy enough on our budget. I don't want to feed Omelene
here because it use to cost us 9.97 in Texas and they want 13.97 here. Plus I
don't care for the feed dealer here that we have to go through. Can anybody
help me out and tell me what they are feeding.
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Message-ID: <34CB682A.69A9@tdsi.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:28:26 -0600
From: Ruth Bourgeois <ruthb@tdsi.net>
Reply-To: ruthb@tdsi.net
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: bringing up baby
References: <34C98F03.6921CDFB@sos.net> <3.0.1.32.19980124183826.00cd650c@mail.micoks.net> <34CA8A18.2FF9@idt.net>
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Zebella wrote:
>
> Another helpful thing is if you can find a safely fenced pasture that is
> on a busy street, with a few old timers or mom there. Gets them over
> the traffic boogers pretty quickly.
That's a great idea, but I have a problem now that I'm not sure how to
deal with. I live at the edge of town, and have my horses here where I
live. They are great in traffic, used to cars, trucks, etc. But now,
with the latest snowfall, there's some guys that take great pleasure in
racing down my road on their snowmobiles. They go so fast, and these
things are so noisy, after dark, there's this big roaring sound, a
flashing of lights, as they zip past. My normally calm, quiet horses get
so upset from this, now they're starting to spook even at car lights
that flash off the side of their shed after dark. And the only traffic
problem I have in the summer is motorcycles when they go by real fast. I
figure the horses will get used to these things sooner or later, but in
the meantime, it seems that they're even more on edge and spookier than
they've ever been. I know the snowmobilers are going a lot faster than
the speed limit for residential streets here in town, but they come and
go so fast that I've never seen them get caught.
Not sure if there's any solution to this problem... though if the sun
stays out long enough and it warms up some more, that will certainly
help!
Ruth
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:30:54 -0600
To: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>, "Biko N Me" <BikoNMe@aol.com>,
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
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I know several people who ride thoroughbreds or TB crosses in endurance and
CTR. They can be good trail horses and can go the distance. Their handicap
is that their recovery rates are usually not at good as Arabs. But that
differs with each horse. My training buddy rides a TB mare and she is
slower than my Arab, but can go anywhere we can go adn do any distance we can.
chris paus & star
At 10:02 AM 1/25/98 +0200, Arikara Appaloosas wrote:
>NO
>
>----------
>> From: Biko N Me <BikoNMe@aol.com>
>> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>> Subject: Thoroughbreds
>> Date: 25 January 1998 05:17
>>
>> Hello,
>> Are Thoroughbreds good for Endurance?????
>>
>
>
>
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:32:44 -0600
To: Lthunter <Lthunter@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Home Fly Spray
In-Reply-To: <b23e5d6.34cb5729@aol.com>
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what is your problem with citronella? It is an oil that comes off of citrus
fruit. You can buy it at health food stores or pharmacies, or make your
own. I make a citronella flea dip for the dogs. You just slice up a few
lemons, paper thin, put the slices in a pot of water and boil it for
awhile. Strain out the lemons and you have your citronella dip.
chris paus & star
At 10:15 AM 1/25/98 EST, Lthunter wrote:
>I found an article in a horse magazine for home fly spray. Can anybody tell
>me if they used it and is it safe. The only problem I have with it is the
>Citronella. It states it's combustable. Here is the recipe.
>
>1 oz Citronella Oil
>2 oz Skin So Soft (Avon)
>1 cup Vinegar
>1 cup Water
>
>
>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: barker@ionet.net (Bill and Carol Barker)
Subject: Rushcreek Horses
In the results posted in Endurance News, I have noticed a lot of "Rushcreek"
horses. I'm in Oklahoma and am not familiar with that breeding. Would
someone please enlighten me?
Thanks,
Carol
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:53:12 -0600
From: Ruth Bourgeois <ruthb@tdsi.net>
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To: &endurance group <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs in camp
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I take my dog along when I go to trail rides or camping with my horses
for two reasons: first, I have no one at home to take care of her when
I'm gone and if my usual "dog-sitter" cannot take care of her, I'd
rather bring her along than board her at a kennel. Second, I often
travel to rides alone. My dog is an excellent watchdog and I feel a lot
safer out on the road when she's along. She's part shepherd and part
chow, a one-person dog who doesn't take readily to strangers and who
isn't afraid to show her teeth to anyone who comes near. I've always
been very careful with her in camp because of that. She's come with me
ever since she was a puppy, and is good about staying tied and sleeping
under the trailer or truck while I'm away from camp. I take her out on a
leash regularly, away from the camp area, so that she doesn't mess up my
campsite or anyone else's. The only problem I've ever encountered was
once while I was out taking her on one of these walks, leading my horse
also, and a loose dog attacked her, scared my horse, and it was a pretty
good dog-fight that almost got me and my horse hurt.
Once my friend that is my usual dog-sitter came with me to a ride. She
brought her collie, and I brought my dog. We went out to the ride a day
ahead of time, so there were only a few people in camp when we arrived.
We tied the dogs and headed out on the trails for a short ride. A few
minutes later, we heard what sounded like coyotes howling, but it
sounded like it was coming from camp. Then we realized it was our two
dogs. I was so embarrassed! We immediately turned back to camp, and
reprimanded them strongly for the howling, then left again. They were
quiet this time.
I figure if my dog ever deters even one person from harming me while I'm
out alone on the road, then it's certainly worth the extra trouble to
bring her along and to take care of her properly, making sure she's not
a nuisance to any of the other campers.
Ruth
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:13:13 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Subject: Re: bringing up baby
References: <34C98F03.6921CDFB@sos.net> <3.0.1.32.19980124183826.00cd650c@mail.micoks.net> <34CA8A18.2FF9@idt.net> <34CB682A.69A9@tdsi.net>
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Ruth Bourgeois wrote:
> they've ever been. I know the snowmobilers are going a lot faster than
> the speed limit for residential streets here in town, but they come and
> go so fast that I've never seen them get caught.
> Not sure if there's any solution to this problem...
Hi Ruth,
I would suggest a phone call to your local police station. Tell them
they are driving (riding) dangerously and recklessly and tell them about
waht time to look for them.
Our local police have always been very good about speedsters, though we
haven't had any snowmobilers in Phoenix! :)
tracy
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From: Tivers <Tivers@aol.com>
Message-ID: <691462a9.34cb7331@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:15:23 EST
To: boverton@tpgi.com.au, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Slow Recovery- Heart Rate
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In a message dated 98-01-25 02:57:06 EST, boverton@tpgi.com.au writes:
<< The only problem I can discern during exercise on the training track is a
tendency to crab both ways while trotting. This could indicate some
soreness but it has been checked out by the Chiro.
The weather has been hot and sticky and the training tracks are relative
difficult. However my other horse and this one in previous years would
recover to the mid forties with the same conditions.
Bruce from Downunder >>
Bruce,
You should get a vet to look at the horse--problem may be in the feet or
elsewhere. Before you can make decisions, you need a genuine diagnosis.
Are you looking at heartrates during the exercise itself? If you horse is
lame, then you should see 10-30 BPM higher heartrates for the same workload.
Also, how hot is it where you're working? If your horse is blowing a lot after
a workout, you'll get a higher heartrate just because it takes energy to
maintain an elevated respiration rate.
Whatever, you need a diagnosis.
ti
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From: Tivers@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 12:30:58 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, arikaras@iafrica.com, BikoNMe@aol.com,
ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-25 11:38:07 EST, paus@micoks.net writes:
<< I know several people who ride thoroughbreds or TB crosses in endurance and
CTR. They can be good trail horses and can go the distance. Their handicap
is that their recovery rates are usually not at good as Arabs.
chris paus & star >>
This is interesting. We ought to think about this. We know that TBs have
higher percentages of FT and FTH muscle cells than Arabs, and we know that FT
cells produce more heat as they work.
We know that Arabs are generally of smaller stature than TBs--a kind of size-
efficiency you'd look for in a gymnast.
What other factors could lead to delayed recovery?
ti
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Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:53:42 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <vans@cyberspy.com>, "Ann Perry" <ann@cornerstonemgt.com>
Cc: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:07:57 -0800
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The secret to using a chain is to use a fairly heavy one. The weight of the
chain causes it to slide off the hoof should a loop form - a light chain is
likely to remain looped around the foot. It still isn't fail proof, and from
the stories posted on this list, nothing is.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank W. Vans Evers <vans@cyberspy.com>
>If yu have room for a picket line, what about a light chain and a ground
>stake? A chain won't bunch up around a horses feet, a 10 foot chain give
>a 20' circle, what do you think?
>
>/s/ Frank (seffner Florida)
>
>--------
>
>Ann Perry wrote:
>>
>> Just read Lucy's bad picket line story and thought I'd come out of lurk
mode
>> for a minute. I've never used a picket line, but have had problems with
>> tying to the trailer--line gets caught under fender, horse panics and
pulls
>> back, breaking snap, making people sleeping in camper think it's an
>> earthquake, etc. I'd get a Horsin' Around corral if I could
justify/afford
>> it; but until then what about a picket line? They do look like an
accident
>> waiting to happen. All that rope AND a horse! However, last year in
>> Endurance News there was info on a picket system you can buy that uses
>> pulleys and weights to keep the slack out of the halter rope. Looked like
it
>> might help. I have the info (somewhere) and will try to find it if
anyone's
>> interested. I most likely will try it myself this summer. Has anybody
seen
>> or used it?
>>
>> Back to lurk mode,
>> Ann
>
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Frank W. Vans Evers
>mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
>
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Lthunter" <Lthunter@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Home Fly Spray
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:15:08 -0800
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By the time you add a cup of water and a cup of vinegar to 1 oz of
citronella, you can use it to put out fires. Now how good a fly spray is
another question.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Lthunter <Lthunter@aol.com>
>I found an article in a horse magazine for home fly spray. Can anybody
tell
>me if they used it and is it safe. The only problem I have with it is the
>Citronella. It states it's combustable. Here is the recipe.
>
>1 oz Citronella Oil
>2 oz Skin So Soft (Avon)
>1 cup Vinegar
>1 cup Water
>
600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Lthunter" <Lthunter@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Home Fly Spray
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:15:086369 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000011704 06462714371 0013126 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from smtp1.mailsrvcs.net (smtp1.gte.net [207.115.153.30]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21874 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:56:15 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>, "Chris Paus" <paus@micoks.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: wither tracing
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:22:35 -0800
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That is better than nothing, but there is a lot more to saddle fit than just
the fit at the withers. Better is to use to take several tracings along the
back at known distances. Better yet is to also trace the shape of the horses
back along the spine. Then understand how dynamic fit may be different than
static fit, and since I have no good information on how that might differ, I
can only point you to the archives - there was a brief discussion of this a
couple of months ago.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 9:23 PM
Subject: Re: wither tracing
>
>Hi Kimberley, sorry, I accidently pushed the send button before I was
>finished. hate this windows 95 keyboard!
>
>
>That's easy. I went to an office supply shop and bought a thing called a
>flexicurve. It is used by draftsmen. It bends, but has ruler marks on it.
>You may also use a piece of clothes hanger or baling wire.
>
>Take the wire or whatgever, place it at the horse's withers and press it
>down on either side, behind the shoulder. The flexicurve is best because it
>stays where you put it. The baling wire or clothes hanger will take some
>doing.
>
>The wire should be sitting on the horse where the front of the saddle will
>sit. When it is pressed into place on the horse, CAREFULLY lift it off. Lay
>it down on a piece of paper or cardboard and trace around the wire. This is
>the shape of your horse's back where the saddle belongs.
>
>Some saddlers will tell you to fax them a copy of the wither tracing. They
>compare that to their templates. I prefer to make a cardboard tracing, then
>cut it out. I can take that with me to a saddle shop and place it under a
>saddle to see if the fit is close. It can help you rule out some saddles
>right away.
>
>It is also an eye opener as to what different saddles call a regular tree
>and what they call wide. There is a lot of variation.
>
>good luck
>
>chris paus & star
>
>
>
>At 09:29 AM 1/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Hey Chris, what is a wither tracing? Do I trace where the saddle should
>>sit?
>>K
>>
>>Chris Paus wrote:
>>>
>>> THAT IS THE HARD PART. You will find yourself trying and returning or
>>> selling many. I hope you are luckier than I was.
>>>
>>> You might try Thornhill saddles. They have a web site. They have good
>>> quality leather english style saddles and have several endurance models.
>>> One of theirs was the right size for Star. If the aussie had not worked,
I
>>> would have gone with the Thornhill. Their saddles seem to be reasonably
>>> priced. Ask them to send you a catalog. And they do allow returns. If
you
>>> send them a wither tracing and pictures of your horse, they will be able
to
>>> match you up better. I think the one I was looking at was around $600
with
>>> stirrup leathers and all.
>>>
>>> chris paus & star
>>>
>>> At 10:41 PM 1/21/98 -0600, KIMBERLY PRICE wrote:
>>> >You wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>That's why each of us has to go through the saddle odyssey. It helps
>>> >to>gatehr information, but as you have learned, what works for one
>>> >horse and>rider will not work for another.
>>> >>
>>> >>chris paus & starman -- on our 12th and final saddle I think
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > And I've only begun my search! I havn't even looked and priced
>>> >anything yet, except the stubben and I've GOT to go cheaper! Oh man,
>>> >is this like, "the" initiation or something? My cousin use to say you
>>> >had to fall off your horse at least 7 times before you could say you
>>> >are a horsewoman, maybe its you have to join the big saddle search or
>>> >something....
>>> >
>>> > Good thing is my friends say Mystery has good withers, back, etc and
>>> >shouldn't be hard to fit. Now, how do I get the horse to the saddle
>>> >instead of a bunch of arranging to check them out and return them!
>>> >Ughhh!!!
>>> >
>>> > I hope you have some nice weather coming up this weekend. We've had
>>> >only 2 dry days this month but I know, I know...no ice and snow!! <g>
>>> >
>>> > BTW, how old is Star and where did he come from?
>>> >
>>> >K
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
>
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From: Biko N Me <BikoNMe@aol.com>
Message-ID: <928f034d.34cba522@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:48:32 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Junior Riders in North Carolina area
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Hi,
I'm a 12 year old junior Endurance rider. I live in NC and own an Arabian mare
that I do Endurance riding on. And I was wondering if there are any Junior
endurance riders in my area??
-Ali and Sarai-
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:30:24 -0700
From: Beverly Gray <bgray@xmission.com>
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Subject: TB/Cross or Anglo Arabs
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Hi Tom;
I ride Anglo Arabs in endurance. My 17yr old gelding- AA Omner has
nearly 9000 race miles and 95% top ten...I don't even need to get off at
the vet checks and he is recovered...same with his little 8yr old
brother AA Bravo won won the Outlaw Trails this year by over an hour. I
know Steve Rojecks TB/Arab-Hawk is a big, bold impressive Anglo Arabian
and Jackie Bumgartner has several winning Anglos. Might be a small
exception to any rule but I would fill my barn with TB/Cross' anyday.
Anyone have any Anglos for sale? :)
Beverly Gray
AA Omner- 1996 Hall of Fame
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 15:39:40 -0600
From: Arden Ward <epona1@mindspring.com>
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Hi,
I hope that I am sending this message correctly. I have been reading
the mailing for about two weeks now and I really enjoy all of your ideas
and comments. How nice for those of us with common interest to be able
to come together this way.
My name is Arden. I have been riding Spotted Saddle Horses for years
now. Mostly trail rides. Showing in the ring some, but I have gotten
quite bored with that. I am looking to get into competitive trail
rides. The SSHBEA (spotted horse assoc.) is getting more and more
involved with sporting events. My 2 1/2 year old is with a trainer
right now. Boy is that like sending your son away to summer camp! He
seems to be doing well, although when I went to check on him this
weekend that trainer said that when he is getting stressed or frustrated
he is wanting to rare up! I'm putting my trust in the trainer. I had
another gelding that I sold who was fond of throwing a fit on the trail
when he didn't want to go somewhere and rare up. Can be quite dangerous
in some instances! Anyway I'm really hoping Junior has the right mind
for it! I live in Murfreesboro TN. Anybody near me? I'm always
looking for someone to ride on weekends with.
Arden Ward
epona1@mindspring.com
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From: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
Message-ID: <67fe6d56.34cbbad8@aol.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:21:10 EST
To: bluwolf@earthlink.net, sumralls@gateway.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Re: Saddles for endurance
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A FYI comment: after riding several "used" English saddles over the years,
luckily with minimal problems, I was informed by a Master Saddler that most
English saddles need to be re-flocked at least once a year (depending on
miles/hours in the saddle (of course)-1500 miles no problem for aerc riders
but may take years for others). It was also suggested that many new saddles
should be reflocked within the 1st 4-6 months as the new flocking may compress
unevenly.
Now finding someone to custom flock to your horse is another story...! CS
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From: CSimmons99@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:21:16 EST
To: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Stirrups too far forward on many English saddles
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FYI: There are adjustable stirrup bars and changeable girthing arrangements
out there. You are correct it makes posting much harder if stirrup bars are
hung to far forward for your length of thigh or discipline of riding. The
Paragon & Marathon saddles came out years ago with a nice wide panel for the
horse and a lightly padded seat for the rider but the stirrup bar was to far
forward for the shorter thighed rider to have their leg under them.
A friend has an Andy Foster custom "English trail/dressage" saddle. She is 5'
with very short thigh. She has ridden for 25 years with her legs to far
forward and was amazed at how much less work posting was when your leg isn't
so far forward.
Andy added small thigh blocks as her horse has suspension dressage people work
for and he has been known on frequent occasions to duck/spin/buck in one move
(usually on her up post..!). The girth system is easily angled also. CS
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Subject: slow recoveries
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From: esppatty@juno.com (Patty Lambert)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:23:51 EST
my other horse and this one in previous years would
> recover to the mid forties with the same conditions.
I agree you need a vet's opinion; might also look at bloodwork - horse
could be anemic or some other systemic/metabolic problem, and might not
be a lameness thing at all.
Patty Lambert
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From: Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:44:46 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Falling off cliffs
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Regarding horses staying on the outside edge of a trail with a drop-off, I
think both previous posts have some merit. If your horse is used to you cuing
him to move right by leaning left, then that is what he will probably do. It's
also true that dressage horses learn to keep the rider balanced above them. I
didn't believe this until one day I was riding in my arena when a cow came
running by. My horse spooked, and I lost my balance. In that instant, my horse
seemed to say to himself "Uh oh! I'm losing her," and he scooted himself back
underneath me, at which point I found myself comfortably back in the saddle
through no effort of my own.
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From: Bierstedt <Bierstedt@aol.com>
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 18:44:45 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Cc: BikoNMe@aol.com
Subject: Thoroughbreds
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A number of years ago I decided to try endurance--talked my husband into
training with me. His appy took to it well. I found out that my Thoroughbred
simply wasn't suited to it, primarily because he had trouble cooling down
efficiently. He is now a wonderful dressage horse and works exclusively in the
arena. For endurance, I bought an Arab. This is an observation about only one
individual Thoroughbred, but it agrees with the conventional wisdom.
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 17:15:19 -0800
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From: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
Subject: Stirrups too far forward on many English saddles
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Ann - It's my understanding that some Whitman english and dressage saddles
have adjustable stirrup bars.
It seems to me that such things as length of leg, length of parts of the
leg (thigh/calf) might be involved. I also think, but can't prove, that,
since the heel should be in a line under the hip and shoulder, then the
stirrup should be set forward a distance equal to the distance from the
heel to the ball of the foot. Unfortunately, I've never been able to
figure out an easy way to measure that distance on the saddle.
Cheers, Laney
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:52:43 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Laney Humphrey <laneyh@mbay.net>
Subject: In Search Of: The Perfect Boot
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Glenda I've ridden in hiking boots for years. I like them for the ankle
support, stiffness (steel shank) and good sole for when I have to get off
and walk on my own two feet. Mine don't have defined heels but they are so
high and wide that I've never had a problem with them slipping too far
through the stirrup.
I like Hi Tech Sierras because they are part nylon so my feet stay cooler
than they would in all leather. The boots also dry out quicker than
leather which is good 'cause there is no way I can keep my feet dry between
the mud around the watering tanks and pouring water on my buddy to cool him
off. (Of course, now in the winter when the mud is cold, my feet tend to
get a little chilly too but I wear thick sox and that helps.
Happy trails, Laney
>X-From_: ridecamp@endurance.net Thu Jan 22 02:56:14 1998
>Resent-From: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Resent-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 16:03:19 -0800 (PST)
>Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:59:13 -0600 (CST)
>From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
>To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Subject: In Search Of: The Perfect Boot
>Resent-Message-ID: <"YjF5l2.0.Gc6.Knenq"@starfish>
>X-Mailing-List: <ridecamp@endurance.net> archive/latest/6141
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>
>Since I learned at Long Leaf that my Blunnies don't have enough ankle
>support, I've been boot-shopping for months now. I've just about given
>up on riding boots and am looking at hiking boots. I tried on a pair of
>Vasque Clarion Impact Leather hiking boots today, which I really liked --
>lots of good ankle support, thick rubber sole, steel shank, waterproof,
>well-made, etc. and they fit well (I have a wide foot). They don't have a
>defined heel, but I don't think I need that since I use EZ-Ride stirrups
>with safety cage.
>
>Does anyone else use hiking boots like this? This particular one, by
>chance? Is there some consideration I have missed that would make hiking
>boots like this a poor choice for endurance riding? Does anyone else
>have any other good suggestions for cushy boots with good support?
>(Ariats are out, too narrow)
>
>Glenda & Lakota
>
>
>
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To: SandyDSA@aol.com
Cc: valsharpe@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
Message-ID: <19980126.101141.3462.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:12:51 EST
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:09:37 EST SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com> writes:
>In a message dated 98-01-23 03:25:18 EST, you write:
>
The best solution I see for all of you was at the War Eagle ride. They
took all the kids that were underfoot and gave them a dog on leash to
walk. It was a hoot.
Angie, who has undisciplined dogs and kids
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To: arikaras@iafrica.com
Cc: BikoNMe@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
Message-ID: <19980126.101141.3462.5.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:12:52 EST
They tend to have bad feet. Hard to keep heel on them. Don't count on
ride managers trimming limbs that Arab riders can't hit.
Angie McGhee
On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:02:40 +0200 "Arikara Appaloosas"
<arikaras@iafrica.com> writes:
>NO
>
>----------
>> From: Biko N Me <BikoNMe@aol.com>
>> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>> Subject: Thoroughbreds
>> Date: 25 January 1998 05:17
>>
>> Hello,
>> Are Thoroughbreds good for Endurance?????
>>
>
>
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To: skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu
Cc: sumralls@gateway.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: need advice about tack
Message-ID: <19980126.101141.3462.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:12:51 EST
>But I agree with everyone about the weight. Sure is fun trying to
>carry the saddle without banging my shins. I have tried putting the
>stirrups over the top. They stay in place, but are leaving terrible
>marks on the softer leather seat. Any suggestions out there in
>email land on how to handle the saddle equiped with EZ stirrups so as
>not to damage the saddle or me?
>
Hasn't ANYBODY ever looked at the Marlboro billboards? I'm 5' and use
E-Z rides on an Express. I just put my hand in the hole in the pommel
and carry it on my back.
Angie. I may get booted in the butt a little, but it's better padded
than my knees!
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To: vans@cyberspy.com
Cc: ann@cornerstonemgt.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: picket lines
Message-ID: <19980126.101141.3462.6.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:12:52 EST
I have seen a horse royally chewed up by a chain. Wouldn't be caught
dead using one. When I have the long rope tight, and the lead rope where
it just lets him tug a little to reach the ground all is well.
Angie
On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:05:03 -0500 "Frank W. Vans Evers"
<vans@cyberspy.com> writes:
>If yu have room for a picket line, what about a light chain and a
>ground
>stake? A chain won't bunch up around a horses feet, a 10 foot chain
>give
>a 20' circle, what do you think?
>
>/s/ Frank (seffner Florida)
>
>--------
>
>Ann Perry wrote:
>>
>> Just read Lucy's bad picket line story and thought I'd come out of
>lurk mode
>> for a minute. I've never used a picket line, but have had problems
>with
>> tying to the trailer--line gets caught under fender, horse panics
>and pulls
>> back, breaking snap, making people sleeping in camper think it's an
>> earthquake, etc. I'd get a Horsin' Around corral if I could
>justify/afford
>> it; but until then what about a picket line? They do look like an
>accident
>> waiting to happen. All that rope AND a horse! However, last year in
>> Endurance News there was info on a picket system you can buy that
>uses
>> pulleys and weights to keep the slack out of the halter rope. Looked
>like it
>> might help. I have the info (somewhere) and will try to find it if
>anyone's
>> interested. I most likely will try it myself this summer. Has
>anybody seen
>> or used it?
>>
>> Back to lurk mode,
>> Ann
>
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Frank W. Vans Evers
>mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
>
>
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To: kirsten@vermilion.reno.nv.us
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Conditioning young/beginning horse
Message-ID: <19980126.101141.3462.4.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:12:52 EST
Don't worry about a heart monitor as yet. If you work your young horse
hard enough to need a heart monitor, you'll ruin his legs. Granted, it
could tell you SOME things, like recoveries, but so can a $6 stethoscope.
Do you mean pony a horse in competition? No way.
A good older lead horse would be the best babysitter/teacher. If you
know a very conservative rider that you could buddy up with at the ride,
park next to them. TRY to get them bonded before the ride, then start in
the back and stay on their tail.
Be very concious of warm ups. Muscular, cutting types will muscle up and
be major risk of tying up if you are careless. 10-12% protein, tops.
Feed plenty of grass hay, not straight Alfalfa ( I'm mentioning these
things because they are so different between the western/endurance way.
Enjoy! This will probably be a great side line for your horse and will
also make them happier in their ring work.
Angie McGhee
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 04:10:07 -0800 Kirsten Price
<kirsten@vermilion.reno.nv.us> writes:
>I am just starting out and have a couple of questions. I have a 9
>year-old Morgan gelding who is currently in excellent condition. He's
>actually a cutting horse, but I'd like to take him on some shorter
>endurance rides throughout the year for a change of pace so to speak.
>
>But my question is really about my 4 year-old Morgan filly. I'd like
>to
>get her started on Endurance/CTRs. She has about three months of
>training with an excellent reining/working cowhorse trainer under her
>belt and she is solid on the trail (even some rough stuff) over short
>distances as the trainer uses hill work and flat work two days per
>week
>as part of both mental and physical conditioning to supplement the
>arena
>work. I'd like to get her in good 25-mile condition by mid-spring,
>but
>am concerned about doing too much with her. She is mentally mature
>but
>physically immature as yet.
>
>I searched the archives and got some good info... but no one ever said
>anything (that I could find) about ponying and how effective or
>ineffective a method that would be to condition a young horse without
>so
>much stress from a rider. Also, is it typically acceptable to pony
>well-behaved young horses on rides?
>
>I do not have a heart-rate monitor. How important is it that I get
>one
>(also how soon) and what brands are recommended?
>
>I'd appreciate any information and advice anyone has to offer.
>Thanks.
>
>Kirsten
>
>
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T
To: kirsten@vermilion.reno.nv.us
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Conditioning young/beginning horse
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To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: TB Mag aritcle Nov/Dec97
Message-ID: <19980126.101141.3462.2.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:12:51 EST
On Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:24:01 -0800 Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
writes:
>Did anyone out there get this magazine? They skipped mine and the
>Jan/Feb98 refers to a saddle fitting article part 1 I'd really like to
>read. Maybe someone would be willing to copy and fax/mail it over?
>Let
>me know in private please, I sure would appreciate it!
>
>In the TB mag I just received last night (Jan/Feb98) the saddle
>conformation article is very good, but states that the stirrups on an
>english saddle are placed too far forward on the tree, where the most
>strength is, so balance cannot be obtained!?! I can't believe thats
>true. Comments?
I think people with short legs have more trouble with stirrups too far
forward. I know my 7 yr old daughter has an impossible task trying to
keep her legs back in her tiny little jumping saddle.
Angie McGhee
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:38:58 -0600
To: Tivers@aol.com
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <9ec488ae.34cb76d4@aol.com>
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I don't have a clue -- I'm just reporting my observations from the limited
number of rides I've done. Anyone with more experience out there, jump in..
At 12:30 PM 1/25/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-25 11:38:07 EST, paus@micoks.net writes:
>
><< I know several people who ride thoroughbreds or TB crosses in endurance
and
> CTR. They can be good trail horses and can go the distance. Their handicap
> is that their recovery rates are usually not at good as Arabs.
> chris paus & star >>
>
>This is interesting. We ought to think about this. We know that TBs have
>higher percentages of FT and FTH muscle cells than Arabs, and we know that FT
>cells produce more heat as they work.
>
>We know that Arabs are generally of smaller stature than TBs--a kind of size-
>efficiency you'd look for in a gymnast.
>
>What other factors could lead to delayed recovery?
>
>ti
>
>
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Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:20:33 -0600
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:20:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: ridefood survey results
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.980125211550.18157K-100000@consider.theneteffect.com>
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Okay, gang, here are the ridefood recommendations I received. Thanks
to all who wrote in! I picked up some great ideas in compiling this
list; hope it helps others too.
(Remember, I'm an historian & computer nerd, not a nutritionist, and I'm
just repeating what I was told, so usual disclaimers apply <BG>)
First, food tips:
1 - Eat whatever you usually eat, i.e. if you typically have bacon &
eggs for breakfast, don't have cold cereal & milk before the ride.
If you never snack at home, start snacking a week or so before
the ride. Nothing upsets a tummy like the unusual.
2 - Follow the same rules you use for your horse -- try it on a training
ride first! Especially things like Power Bars, Gu, etc., which are
not "normal foods."
3 - Pay special attention to sweet & salty -- if you're not used to
eating sugary foods, the Gu and such may make you really sick,
or give you a sugar high or headache. Salty foods will make you
thirsty, so make sure you have plenty of water along.
4 - Make sure you drink plenty of water at all times, but especially
when eating salted nuts and things like Power Bars and Gu. It's
usually best to avoid fizzy drinks, as the gas can cause serious
upset and even severe pain in certain cases.
5 - Think about packaging: plastic wrappers and such need to be
brought out. Two sandwiches stuffed into one Ziploc-type bag
means less trash, plus you can put other waste into the bag to
carry out.
Night Before Ride
NO "hotter than fire" enchiladas! instead, try:
pasta w/salad & bread
pizza
BBQ
chili
steaks & baked potato
Morning Before Ride
pop tarts
cold milk
instant oatmeal or other hot cereal
cold cereal w/milk
yogurt
fresh fruit (bananas, melon)
pancakes
scrambled eggs
grilled bagel w/butter or cream cheese
chocolate-flavored Instant Breakfast made with warm milk (add 1 tsp
instant coffee for cappucino taste and caffeine boost)
toast with honey or Vegemite
muffins
During Ride/Vet Checks
"meal in a can" like Ensure, SlimFast, Carnation Breakfast Drink, etc.
pop tarts
applesauce mixed with mandarin oranges
granola bar
oranges & grapefruit are easy to carry, but leave sticky hands
Balance complete nutritional food bar - cheaper at Wal-Mart
beef jerky
licorice
peanuts/cashews/honey-roasted peanuts (salt helps in 'lyting yourself)
Gu
Power Gel
(note: REI carries a nifty little goo bottle & holster that you can
velcro to the saddle pommel -- holds several goo packets, so no
wrappers to mess with on the trail)
Power Bar (hard to eat, especially when cold)
Cliff bar (espress-chocolate cookie, peanut butter, chocolate chip
peanut)
carrots
apples
peanut butter & jelly sandwich
peanut butter & honey sandwich
saltine crackers & cheese
Ritz crackers w/peanut butter (Ritz bits won't crumble in the
cantle bag)
Thermo-T
Cytomax
fruit cup
raisins, other dried fruit
tortillas
Fruit Dinosaurs
cinnamon raisin bagels w/strawberry cream cheese -- fits nicely in
an EasyBoot! (but wrap it in plastic to avoid hoof taste - YUK)
pasta salad
cheese sandwich
Melba toast
hard sourdough pretzels go well in a fannypack
cookies
M&Ms
potato chips, Fritos, Cheetos (high in potassium)
cantelope
watermelon
grapes (you can freeze these to carry on the trail)
trailmix
Cheerios
Rice Krispy Treats
mints/hard candies are good for dry throat
If you can keep things chilled:
tuna salad sandwich
yogurt
pasta salad (no high-fat sauces, as they stick to the roof of your
mouth when cold)
chilled fruit
Drinks
LOTS of water
Gatorade and other 'lyte drinks
homemade 'lyte drink (Kool-Aid w/60% recommended sugar and add
about 3/4 tsp horse electrolytes for 1/2 gallon of drink)
Mannatech energy drink
UltraFuel (especially grape flavor doesn't taste salty)
Kool-Aid
lemonade
cold milk
juice
hot soup in a thermos
hot chocolate mix & other powdered drink mixes
esults
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:42:47 -0600
To: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>, <vans@cyberspy.com>,
"Ann Perry" <ann@cornerstonemgt.com>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
Cc: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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Using chains to keep horses tethered sure raises red flags to me!
chris paus & star
At 11:07 AM 1/25/98 -0800, Duncan Fletcher wrote:
>The secret to using a chain is to use a fairly heavy one. The weight of the
>chain causes it to slide off the hoof should a loop form - a light chain is
>likely to remain looped around the foot. It still isn't fail proof, and from
>the stories posted on this list, nothing is.
>
>Duncan Fletcher
>dfletche@gte.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Frank W. Vans Evers <vans@cyberspy.com>
>
>
>>If yu have room for a picket line, what about a light chain and a ground
>>stake? A chain won't bunch up around a horses feet, a 10 foot chain give
>>a 20' circle, what do you think?
>>
>>/s/ Frank (seffner Florida)
>>
>>--------
>>
>>Ann Perry wrote:
>>>
>>> Just read Lucy's bad picket line story and thought I'd come out of lurk
>mode
>>> for a minute. I've never used a picket line, but have had problems with
>>> tying to the trailer--line gets caught under fender, horse panics and
>pulls
>>> back, breaking snap, making people sleeping in camper think it's an
>>> earthquake, etc. I'd get a Horsin' Around corral if I could
>justify/afford
>>> it; but until then what about a picket line? They do look like an
>accident
>>> waiting to happen. All that rope AND a horse! However, last year in
>>> Endurance News there was info on a picket system you can buy that uses
>>> pulleys and weights to keep the slack out of the halter rope. Looked like
>it
>>> might help. I have the info (somewhere) and will try to find it if
>anyone's
>>> interested. I most likely will try it myself this summer. Has anybody
>seen
>>> or used it?
>>>
>>> Back to lurk mode,
>>> Ann
>>
>>--
>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>Frank W. Vans Evers
>>mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
>>
>
>
>
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Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:37:29 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield)
Subject: homemade mosquitoefly sprays
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I've used something similar to that and found it mildly successful. I was
forced to find an alternative to commercial fly spray when our pony became
quite alergic to most commercial concoctions.
I use water, some mineral oil, citronella, peppermint oil and then, for
the others, add commercial fly/mosquitoe spray, and for all eventually
lots of DEET when the bugs get really bad. I'm sorry, i don't remember the
proportions other than that I begin with about 1 quart water and about 1/2
cup of mineral oil and about 1 oz of each of the other oils. As this mix
becomes less effective, as the darn mosquitoes get worse, I add a few more
drops and a few more of the oils until the mix smells quite strongly of
citronella. Then I add commercial fly spray until it is about 1/3 of the
mixture. Finally I add about 1 oz of Deep Woods Off or some other nasty,
poisonous, carcinogenic junk because the homemade just isn't effective here
at the height of the mosquitoe season. As the bugs taper off I reduce the
DEET until I'm back to just the oils and water. Unfortunately the flys are
far less effected by my homemade than the mosquitoes, so the addition of
the comercial fly stuff. I think you will find that with the mix
containing the Skin So Soft, too, and that the mosquitoes are not much put
off by it , either.
Ann
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Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:19:48 -0600 (CST)
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <vans@cyberspy.com>, "Ann Perry" <ann@cornerstonemgt.com>,
"Chris Paus" <paus@micoks.net>
Cc: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 21:39:21 -0800
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Chris -
Any stake out where the feet of the horse can be entangled in the 'lead' has
potential problems. But I have watched what happens with rope and heavy
chain, and the chain does not tend to loop tight around the legs as rope
does. Some day when you have nothing better to do, go sit out and watch your
horse on a stake where he is going to move around to graze: try it with rope
and watch for an hour, then repeat with heavy chain (I am assuming you have
a reasonable calm horse - otherwise I would not it try it with anything).
Now if he stands in one spot for that time, you won't learn anything :-). I
learned this from my first vet, and damned if he wasn't right. Now the use
of heavy hose (that can't be bent into a small loop) as suggested in another
post is even safer. Even safer yet, would be to a highline, but then he
can't graze.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
>Using chains to keep horses tethered sure raises red flags to me!
>
>chris paus & star
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:49:21 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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To: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
References: <34C61F47.237C228A@chron.com>
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Cyndi Craig wrote:
>
> i've been doing 25s for about a year. i am happy doing 25s -- i don't
> have time to train for longer distances - i have another horse i compete
> with in dressage -- and i don't want to do 50s.
>
> i have been getting the feeling that the LD riders are the
> "stepchildren" of the aerc,
I don't think they are treated as stepchildren, but initially when the
limited distance program was started it was set up as a
conditioning/training type program with the idea that it would be used
as a stepping stone to longer distances. I think that some of the
limited distance riders are now s looking at the 25 mile rides
differently, and are not moving up to longer distances. At the AERC
convention, the Board of Directors discussed this and I think changes
may be made in the limited distance program to reflect this new trend.
although if you look at the dollars, the
> 25-milers usually generate the most income for rides, just because there
> are more of them....
>
At our rides in San Diego, there are usually more 50's than 25's.
> so here's a question for everyone.
>
> i recently received a mailing for a ride where they were priced as
> follows:
>
> 25 mile $55
>
> 50 mile $75
>
> 75 mile $100
>
> i was a little disconcerted because i felt the 25s weree being asked to
> pay more than their fair share. if you calculate it on a per-mile basis,
> the 25s are $2.20 a mile, whereas the 75s are only 1.30 a mile...almost
> double for the 25s..
>
> i especially feel this is unfair for other reasons:
>
> 1) 25 milers only have one vet check
the 25 miles have a preride, and post ride check as well.
> 2) most 25 milers do not spend an additional night at camp, where many
> 50s, and virtually all of the 75s do.
you have the option of staying for the whole weekend, and the basecamp
must be rented for the whole weekend to accommodate anyone who wants to
spend the night (and many of them are 25's if they have come from a far
distance)
>
> opinions?
>
The difference in costs in preparing the 25 mile course or the 50 mile
course are nominal. The majority of the costs for the entire ride are
set costs and have nothing to do with the distance ridden. (sanctioning,
vets, farrier, insurance, mailing and printing, ride packets, porta
potties, completion awards, forest service permits, drug fees, food,
hay, basecamp rental, etc). The difference charged between the 25
and 50 is for one additional vet to handle the third vet check for the
50's and for the additional awards that are given to the 50's--first
place, top ten, and division awards), but the majority of the ride costs
are borne equally by all the riders regardless of the distance ridden.
When you think about it, for $55, you and your family can camp for the
weekend, your horse is examined by a veterinarian 3 times, you get a
completion award and dinner, and you get to spend time with good
friends. It sounds like a great deal to me!
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
> cyndi
>
> cyndi.craig@chron.com
> donerail farm
> alvin, tx
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From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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To: Duncan Fletcher <dfletche@gte.net>
CC: vans@cyberspy.com, Ann Perry <ann@cornerstonemgt.com>,
Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>, ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
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Duncan Fletcher wrote:
>
> Chris -
>
> Any stake out where the feet of the horse can be entangled in the 'lead' has
> potential problems. But I have watched what happens with rope and heavy
> chain, and the chain does not tend to loop tight around the legs as rope
> does. Some day when you have nothing better to do, go sit out and watch your
> horse on a stake where he is going to move around to graze: try it with rope
> and watch for an hour, then repeat with heavy chain (I am assuming you have
> a reasonable calm horse - otherwise I would not it try it with anything).
> Now if he stands in one spot for that time, you won't learn anything :-). I
> learned this from my first vet, and damned if he wasn't right. Now the use
> of heavy hose (that can't be bent into a small loop) as suggested in another
> post is even safer. Even safer yet, would be to a highline, but then he
> can't graze.
>
> Duncan Fletcher
> dfletche@gte.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
>
> >Using chains to keep horses tethered sure raises red flags to me!
> >
> >chris paus & star Nor can he lower his head to drain his sinuses.
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:51:29 -0500
To: llayman@neorx.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dogs on the Loose
In-Reply-To: <9800238855.AA885586455@Imail.neorx.com>
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What about the loose kids causing trouble, the same for
them?? I'd go for that.
Julie
Who has a well-behaved dog and NO kids.
At 12:03 PM 1/23/98 PST, llayman@neorx.com wrote:
> I think that the loose dogs should be rounded up and held for
> ransom/fine. If the fine was high enough, the ride manager could make
> a lot of money, and the loose dogs wouldn't be loose anymore.
>
> Linda-Cathrine
>
>
>
Julie R.Coats, A.H.T.
Cardiac Research Technician
NCSU College of Veterinary Medicine
julie_coats@ncsu.edu
919 829-4325
fax 919 515-9427
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 08:55:00 -0500
To: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
In-Reply-To: <199801240717.XAA11909@fsr.com>
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Ah, but to people who do not have or want kids,
dogs, horses, etc are their family and just
as important to them.
Julie
At 11:15 PM 1/23/98 PST, Sullys Maze wrote:
>REPLY TO 01/23/98 19:08 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
>
>
>I'm okay with rides being a family affair -- as long as I can bring MY
>family too, my dog Bailey. (I don't mind leaving the snakes at home, as
>they don't travel well anyway.) She's clean, neat, quiet, well-behaved,
>and under my control at all times, no matter where we are.
>
>Some people don't like dogs. I can understand and live with that. I
>personally don't like children. However, I am willing to tolerate your
>well-behaved children at camp if you are willing to tolerate my well-behaved
>dog. :))
>
>The Snodgrass Family
>Glenda, Lakota (equine) & Bailey (canine)
>Ruby, Charlie, Jerry & Wilson (serpentine)
>In Memory Of: Simon & Sarafina (lizardine)
>-------
>Glenda, I have to take exception to this, as dogs ARE NOT people!
>
>Much as I love my dogs, I sure don't expect other folks to! If you
>don't like to "tolerate" peoples children, then stay at home!
>My daughter comes to the endurance rides and RIDES! If I pay the
>$70 or so dollars for her SHE is entitled to be there! If I choose
>to pay the dinner $ for my son, then HE is entitled to be there!
>
>If the rule says no dogs, then your dog should stay home.
>
>I dislike ill-mannered dogs AND children, and will take strong
>measures to ensure that my dogs and kids don't ruin anyone elses
>day. But the only way to guarantee my dog won't annoy somebody at a
>ride is to leave it at home. How do I know what my dog is doing
>(well trained it might be), if I am out on a ride all day!!?
>
>Becuase rides are "family affairs"; give you no right to bring your
>dog, especially if the rule say no dogs! You might FEEL like your
>dog is family (I do), but you sure can't pass it off as that.
>
>While millions of people may feel their dogs are as important as
>children, there is a world of difference.
>
>Karen
>
>Now my .02 on dogs on rides. Absolutely no dogs at endurance rides!
>I am sick to death of being annoyed by dogs barking early in the
>morning and later while their owners are out on the trail. I am
>annoyed by the wandering loose dogs, because my CHILDREN are at
>some of the rides, and I don't trust dogs I don't personally know,
>not to bite. I am tired of dogs into my food trucks and peeing on
>my possessions.
>
>On the other hand, I greatly enjoy taking my dog on training
>rides, and am lucky to live in a county with thousands of acres of
>BLM land, and permission from the BLM folks! I find having the dogs
>along has been the best training for the horses-running under the
>horses, jumping and crashing out of bushes, will de-spook horses in
>a hurry! I have a dog that absolutely will not run wildlife; he has
>had deer and rabbits jump right in front of him and he just follows
>me! I disagree with the poster that claimed dogs would rather stay
>at home and sleep. Perhaps mine would, since he is getting older,
>but I know other dogs that like for the horseback rides.
>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>
>
>
Julie R.Coats, A.H.T.
Cardiac Research Technician
NCSU College of Veterinary Medicine
julie_coats@ncsu.edu
919 829-4325
fax 919 515-9427
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:06:00 -0500
To: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Not MY dog!
In-Reply-To: <199801241622.IAA28095@fsr.com>
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Hi again,
I do have to say in region 5, to my knowledge MOST (not all)
but really most of the dogs are behaved. My friend and I parked
next to a couple who had a boxer and boarder collie pup who were
wonderful dogs. Never barked and just slept under the truck on
leashes when the owners were gone. My friend has a aussie who
that she does agility with and has won many obedience classes also,
that dog is definently well behaved. My sheltie female will not leave
our trailer and prefers the bed to wondering around. When we are gone
they are in the back of the horse trailer and my dog is debarked (no
I didn't do it, her show owners before me did) so they never bother
anyone when gone and are quiet. This we know because all our neighbors
tell us. So to Region 5 NATRC keep up the good work. Julie
At 08:20 AM 1/24/98 PST, Sullys Maze wrote:
>REPLY TO 01/24/98 02:50 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: Not MY dog!
>
>
>>From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
>
>Since every single person INSISTS that THEIR dogs are not the
>out-of-control ones, then WHO owns these dogs that are running around
>peeing on the hay, begging at the table, and generally being a pain in
>the ass??? Think about it now, have any of you EVER heard anyone say
>"Well yeah, I bring my dogs to rides and I let them run wild." These
>people are idiots and you can't legislate stupidity. Even if you rule
>that dogs are not allowed, they bring them anyway. The only way to end
>this behavior is to DQ them from the ride if they don't follow the dog
>rules, just like any other ride rule.
>
>If dogs are well behaved (read confined and quiet) they should pose no
>problems at rides and I'm sure no one will mind. If we weren't (some
>kind of ) animal lovers, we wouldn't be here, right?
>
>-------------
>Well, let me ask all of you this? You take just about any dog, no
>matter how well trained, that is used to going along with his owner
>on horseback. Take that dog to a ride, and suddenly the owner
>leaves the dog in camp while he rides away. 9 out of 10 dogs are
>going to whine, bark or howl. What about the rest of folks in camp?
>Our spouses and kids. Do they want to have to listen to that?
>
>Your point is well taken,though, NOBODY is willing to admit their
>dog is an annoyance.
>
>Karen
>
>To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:40:09 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "C.M.Newell" <reshan@deyr.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: Dogs on the Loose
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980126085129.00694aa4@pop-in.ncsu.edu>
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At 08:51 AM 1/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>What about the loose kids causing trouble, the same for
>them?? I'd go for that.
I won't say it's impossible, but I haven't yet seen a loos kid pee on
anyone's hay...
--CMNewell
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:02:09 -0400 (EDT)
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From: Hall@cc.denison.edu (Jude Hall)
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
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I've been reading (with a lot of smiles) the dialogue about dogs & kids
in camp.
Some folks are *very* defensive about their right to have kids in camp....
ha ha. I don't think anyone has made a point that kids shouldn't be
at rides, just that they should be well-behaved. I really haven't seen
any who haven't been.
I really just want to add yet another comment about dogs in camp. In
my area, almost everyone brings at least one dog to a ride. The dogs
all know one another and it seems like "old home week" for them too.
I've not experienced problems with peoples dogs running around in
other folks' camps, if they are not on lease they seem to stay right in
their own camp area. My dog is tied to my gooseneck while I am in camp,
he sleeps in the trailer while I am on the ride.
I know my dog doesn't bark and howl when I am away from camp - I've
taken him too many times both to rides and just "horse camping" and
would've heard him coming in or going out (and neighbors would've
told me at horse camps, they aren't shy, neither are park rangers who
will ticket). In fact, I usually have to wake him up when I get back. If
my dog *did* bark and howl I wouldn't bring him. But he is well-behaved
and good company and enjoys being "camp dog".
Lots of dogs come to rider's meetings - on leash, either on their
owner's laps or at their feet....
I've not been bothered by anyone else's dogs when I've been to a
ride, people seem to have a sense of consideration for others. Its
too bad this isn't so everywhere, but I really think that problems
can be solved by enforcing rules of conduct, not by banning
all dogs at rides.
Jude Hall
in Ohio
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 07:27:34 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>, guest@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cost of sanctioning
References: <199801231803.KAA28881@fsr.com>
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Brenda, I tried to email you this personally, but my server said it
could not be delivered, so I am posting it on ridecamp
> From: Brenda
> Email: limnos@junction.net
>
> I have a simple query that I have not had a response from AERC on.
> Can somebody tell me what it costs to sanction a ride with AERC?
The cost for sanctioning a new ride is: 1 distance - $25, 2 distances -
$35, 3 distances - $45, each additional distance $10.
I understand there is also a starting rider fee?
There is a $3 fee for each starting rider.
> What does it cost to sanction a limited distance ride?
The prices are as I stated above, but as indicated in the following
rule, limited distance rides can only be held in conjunction with a
longer distance ride. I don't think you can get sanctioning for just a
LD ride.
> 1.4 Limited Distance Rides may be offered but must be sanctioned into
> the AERC Limited Distance Program and held in conjunction with an
> AERC sanctioned Endurance ride
> I.E. How much does ride management have to pay AERC to run a ride???
The only fees due AERC are the sanctioning costs and the starting rider
costs (also in 50 mile distances and above, there is a $10 fee for any
non-aerc member--you charge this to the rider).
What region are you in? You probably should contact your sanctioning
director in your region who could provide you with any more
information that you may need, or email me back and I'll try to answer
them.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
> I have a simple query that I have not had a response from AERC on.
> Can somebody tell me what it costs to sanction a ride with AERC? I understand there is also a starting rider fee?
> What does it cost to sanction a limited distance ride?
> I.E. How much does ride management have to pay AERC to run a ride???
> Thanks,
> Brenda
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From: "Carlos F. Crespo" <ccrespo@nigma.com>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: AERC ONE DAY 100 MILE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:51:22 -0500
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Brad is right on the Money!
It is time that the AERC provides an honest and fair test for the best
competitive riders in the country. This would be the ultimate
demonstration of what endurance riding is all about. It would encompass all
the thrill and drama of real competition adding an element of surprise,
challenge and true excitement to the process. A National Championship would
also serve as the most fair approach to selecting the representatives to
International Competitions and a major form of fund raising for the
organization.
I get goose-bumps just thinking of seeing Marcia Smith, Chris Knotch,
Valerie, Daniel, Steve and many of the others line-up on the same day ,
under the same conditions riding for all the marbles. This would be the
Ultimate Endurance Challenge. I can not remember the last time I heard of
anything so exciting. You have my support.
Carlos Crespo
ccrespo@nigma.com
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:32:50 -0800
To: Hall@cc.denison.edu (Jude Hall)
From: sue@raton.com (Sue Norris)
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Dear Jude,
Thank you for telling the other side of this debate. In the southwest
where I live, the situation is the same " old home week" for the riders as
well as the dogs. Nobody seems to be as bothered by the dog,kid, situation
at the rides I go to, as alot of the respondents have been on I've been on
ridecamp. I personally am sick of hearing everybody whine. Can't we all just
get along?
Suereading (with a lot of smiles) the dialogue about dogs &
kids
>in camp.
>
>Some folks are *very* defensive about their right to have kids in camp....
>ha ha. I don't think anyone has made a point that kids shouldn't be
>at rides, just that they should be well-behaved. I really haven't seen
>any who haven't been.
>
>I really just want to add yet another comment about dogs in camp. In
>my area, almost everyone brings at least one dog to a ride. The dogs
>all know one another and it seems like "old home week" for them too.
>I've not experienced problems with peoples dogs running around in
>other folks' camps, if they are not on lease they seem to stay right in
>their own camp area. My dog is tied to my gooseneck while I am in camp,
>he sleeps in the trailer while I am on the ride.
>
>I know my dog doesn't bark and howl when I am away from camp - I've
>taken him too many times both to rides and just "horse camping" and
>would've heard him coming in or going out (and neighbors would've
>told me at horse camps, they aren't shy, neither are park rangers who
>will ticket). In fact, I usually have to wake him up when I get back. If
>my dog *did* bark and howl I wouldn't bring him. But he is well-behaved
>and good company and enjoys being "camp dog".
>
>Lots of dogs come to rider's meetings - on leash, either on their
>owner's laps or at their feet....
>
>I've not been bothered by anyone else's dogs when I've been to a
>ride, people seem to have a sense of consideration for others. Its
>too bad this isn't so everywhere, but I really think that problems
>can be solved by enforcing rules of conduct, not by banning
>all dogs at rides.
>
>Jude Hall
>in Ohio
>
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From: "The Vervaet's" <VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Thompson's Water Seal?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:17:28 -0500
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VervaetP@deruyter.K12.NY.US
I have been trying top open the Ridecamp web site, without success. A
while ago there was a discussion about re-water proofing blankets with
Thompson's Water Seal. I can't open the archives. If anyone who has used
this product sees this message, please contact me.
Thanks,
Paula
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:12:23 EST
To: twhowe@inetworld.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-26 09:24:07 EST, you write:
<< When you think about it, for $55, you and your family can camp for the
weekend, your horse is examined by a veterinarian 3 times, you get a
completion award and dinner, and you get to spend time with good
friends. It sounds like a great deal to me!
>>
I don't get this, except that many of our riders have never participated in
other and generally Arabian related events, which are considerably more
expensive and less valuable in our minds. The cost of a ride, 25 or 50 miler,
is quite a bargain to us, and in fact, just factor in even ONE soundsness
check by a good vet and there you have it! In addition, regular competition
can also keep one abreast of a horse's continued condition, and so we feel it
is quite a bargain - a great dinner, a terrific ride, several checks by good
vets, the comraderie, and of course those terrific tees! No, we don't think
that teh 25 milers get soaked. Just a wee more respect is nice!
s
p.s.....and Terry gives us LOTS of that - and hot springs to boot!
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jessica Tuteur <jessicat@napanet.net>
Subject: Re: ground staking
What works even better is a cable inside of a stiff garden hose. Then even
if the legs get intwined the horse can easily release itself. This is what a
lot of Tennessee Walking Horse people use.
I would not use a chain since it could get wedged in between the shoe and
the hoof and could also get pretty tight if the horse got entangled.
Jessica
At 08:05 PM 1/24/98 -0500, you wrote:
>If yu have room for a picket line, what about a light chain and a ground
>stake? A chain won't bunch up around a horses feet, a 10 foot chain give
>a 20' circle, what do you think?
>
>/s/ Frank (seffner Florida)
>
>--------
>
>Ann Perry wrote:
>>
>> Just read Lucy's bad picket line story and thought I'd come out of lurk mode
>> for a minute. I've never used a picket line, but have had problems with
>> tying to the trailer--line gets caught under fender, horse panics and pulls
>> back, breaking snap, making people sleeping in camper think it's an
>> earthquake, etc. I'd get a Horsin' Around corral if I could justify/afford
>> it; but until then what about a picket line? They do look like an accident
>> waiting to happen. All that rope AND a horse! However, last year in
>> Endurance News there was info on a picket system you can buy that uses
>> pulleys and weights to keep the slack out of the halter rope. Looked like it
>> might help. I have the info (somewhere) and will try to find it if anyone's
>> interested. I most likely will try it myself this summer. Has anybody seen
>> or used it?
>>
>> Back to lurk mode,
>> Ann
>
>--
>-----------------------------------------------------------
>Frank W. Vans Evers
>mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
>
>
*****************************************************************
Jessica Tuteur, Ride Manager Wine Country 50 6/6/98
J-M Ranch & HorseBums
1393 Green Valley Rd.
Napa, CA 94558
(707) 258-1937 tel & fax
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:34:31 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: Sue Norris <sue@raton.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
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Sue Norris wrote:
> at the rides I go to, as alot of the respondents have been on I've been on
> ridecamp. I personally am sick of hearing everybody whine. Can't we all just
> get along?
>
Sure we can get along.....just keep your dog from peeing on MY stuff and
eating MY food! :))
I'll be interested in knowing if you think it is whining when it is your
stuff being ruined.
tracy
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From: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:02:20 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Selenium
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My figures of 8-10 mg per day of selenium for the adult horse come from Oregon
State University and Schering. We have been using these values for the past
10 years or so, and doing a lot of follow-up blood testing on horses. Our
results have been good. I would comment that horses also have different
abilities to absorb selenium, and as many other people have pointed out, other
nutrients may affect the amount of selenium required. If in doubt, test your
horse's selenium levels and supplement accordingly.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:08:59 EST
To: ssolis@lg.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-21 08:26:16 EST, you write:
<< Questions:
In your opinion does this produce a smooth trot for the rider?
Yes, it seems to.
Do you think that horses with smoother trots to ride are more
conformationally sound for endurance?
Absolutely. They don't generate near the concussion.
Does high action which is predominant in the Arab park horse type equate
to a bouncy hard trott for the rider?
Depends on how you define bouncy and hard--it is not jarring, but it
spends a lot of unnecessary energy---I find the long, low,
smooth strides to be more efficient both metabolically and biomechanically.
And lastly, what family lines do you feel produce this wide action
behind type of trott? >>
I've seen this in several of the old CMK lines--I know my old
stallion Surrabu produced it (he had a lot of Draper breeding, as well as some
Kellogg and Davenport breeding). Have seen it in other horses similarly bred.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801261716.KAA17614@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Bringing up Baby
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:16:12 MST
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2]
I have brought up a few babies from the day they were born.
Ponying the foals is great. A couple of things though.
First, the youngster must know how to lead, and lead very
well. Make sure they understand to move with pressure.
They understand that the whip is an aid to tell them where
to be. Second, make sure that the horse you are riding is
willing to pony the youngster, knows that a rope under the
tail is OK, and is very cooperatives.
Then take your youngster out on the trails. I've found it interesting
to watch when the big mosters come out. There is a horrible yellow
beast on the road (road equipment). Pharalina (17 years old) gives it
one look and ignores it. Drake (3 months) goes "Oh my it's going to
eat me." He dances a bit, looks at Mom, finds she isn't concerned,
and he settles down. On the way back, he just looks at it and walks
by. The babies learn a lot from the way the rest of the herd, particularly
their mom, behaves. When Drake went for training, the trainer had him out
in the field and saw some trucks coming. Being a trainer that is always
looking for things to train with, he walked Drake along the fence
line. Big truck comes, Drake glances at it and keeps on walking.
No training opportunity here.
And you can keep ponying the youngsters. For the person with the 4 year
old. Yes, take it out and pony it with your older horse. You will
not get exactly the same conditioning of the ponied horse as with
the ridden horse, but you'll get some. At an organized ride, you
won't see ponied horses. I don't know if there is a rule about it or
not. You will see some younger horses that are left at the trailer.
This is also good for the youngsters, as long as they are attended to.
There should always be a competent horse person with the young horse.
Don't leave them alone as you never know what they will get into.
My personal view is to wait till the Arab youngster is a minimum of
3 years old before putting weight on their backs. In general, I wait
till they are 3.5 years old. Then it is only light work, and they
get a couple months off in winter. At 4 years old, I'll start giving
them a bit more work.
--
Wendy
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I have brought up a few babies from the day they were born.
Ponying the foals is great. A couple of things though.
First, the youngster must know how to lead, and lead very
well. Make sure they understand to move with pressure.
They understand that th6408 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003235 06463145414 0013115 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from r2d2.raton.com (root@[207.66.35.66]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12018 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:42:31 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:38:46 -0800
To: zebella@idt.net
From: sue@raton.com (Sue Norris)
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Tracy,
Remember, I am not commenting on the inconsiderate few, I am referring
to the majority that control both their dogs and their children. I am sorry
that you have had such bad experiences, but just because one person sets a
bad example, does that mean that the rest of us have to be chastised? Just
because one persons child is unruly, does that mean the rest of the children
have to be punished? As I said, most of the people that I know at the rides
that bring dogs, control them quite well, and that is ALOT. I will
definitely make sure that my dog does not pee on your stuff or your food. So
count me as one you don't have to worry about.
Sue>Sue Norris wrote:
>
>> at the rides I go to, as alot of the respondents have been on I've been on
>> ridecamp. I personally am sick of hearing everybody whine. Can't we all just
>> get along?
>>
>
>Sure we can get along.....just keep your dog from peeing on MY stuff and
>eating MY food! :))
>
>I'll be interested in knowing if you think it is whining when it is your
>stuff being ruined.
>
>tracy
>
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Received: (from rides2far@juno.com)
by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id NWV08368; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:31:39 EST
To: twhowe@inetworld.net
Cc: cyndi.craig@chron.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Message-ID: <19980127.012949.3334.6.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <34C61F47.237C228A@chron.com>
<34CC5C21.7C2@inetworld.net>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.15
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,2-13,20-23
From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:31:39 EST
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:49:21 -0800 Terry Woolley Howe
<cancer@inetworld.net> writes:
>Cyndi Craig wrote:
>>
>> i've been doing 25s for about a year. i am happy doing 25s -- i
>don't
>> have time to train for longer distances - i have another horse i
>compete
>> with in dressage -- and i don't want to do 50s.
>>
>> i have been getting the feeling that the LD riders are the
>> "stepchildren" of the aerc,
>
I hear a lot of 25's say they think they shouldn't be left out of
awards...just because they don't have time to train as much... I wonder
how they would like to be one of us "also rans" who complete 50s year
after year, just out of the awards. We could drop down and clean up, but
don't want to. We don't ride for awards. I see nothing wrong with doing
25's forever if that's your thing. But I also see no glory whatsoever in
bragging that you win them.
Now I'm in trouble
Angie and Kaboot
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From: "Eric & Gail Hought" <hought@humboldt1.com>
To: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:50:28 -0800
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I use EZ-Ride stirrups and like them real well. I bought them with the
cages, but they were so uncomfortable with the cages that I stopped and cut
the cages out after only 4 miles.(I know, I could have exchanged them, but
I was on a ride.) I've used them for about a year and half.
Gail and Shaq
hought@humboldt1.com
http://www.hought.com
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From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: "SandyDSA" <SandyDSA@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:30:58 -0800
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When I bought my Arab, I hadn't even heard of endurance riding--all, right,
I admit it: I bought her because she was BEAUTIFUL!!
When I discovered endurance riding, I was thrilled. Here was something I
could do with my horse that didn't require a lot of special stuff (or so I
thought when I started). I traded in my distance bike riding for distance
horse back riding--its much more fun and no one looks at your strangely for
talking to your horse!!
I started with 25s, noticed the price difference, and it just made me want
to be ready to do 50's all that much sooner. However, when I start my colt
on endurance, I plan to bring him along slowly and we'll probably only do
25s for the first 2 years. Although the cost is more per "mile," the ride
will be just as fun!
In fact--since all the peripheral costs are the same--HOW COME WE HAVE TO
PAY MORE FOR 50'S AND 75'S???
Okay, just kidding!! I do think its a pretty fair system and a very
reasonable cost for the benefits!!
dorothy & elly
taylorsville
----------
> From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: is this fair?
> Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 9:15 AM
>
> Okay - I know a way to have everyone fell really good about the fees at
rides
> AND the really tough job RMs have in planning these rides for us to enjoy
- go
> to a rated Arabian or Saddlebred show. Check out their costs and don't
forget
> to count trainers fees. monthly training fees, stall fees, office fee
> (whatever the heck THAT is - new in 1989), tarnsport fees, 'handling fees
(now
> that you have paid for your horse to be traiend ALL MONTH, you ALSO get
to pay
> for the traienr to now HANDLE you horse), etc. You get my drift? Trust
me, you
> will come aaway thinking "Oh my goodness gracious sakes alive! How LUCKY
I am!
> ANd how much more FUN I have!" Just a thought. Let me know who goes.
> san
distance
horse back riding--its much more fun and no one looks at your strangely for
talking to your horse!!
I started with 25s, noticed the price difference, and it just made me want
to be ready to do 50's all that much sooner. However, when I start my colt
on endurance, I plan to bring him along slowly and we'll probably only do
25s for the first 2 years. Although the cost is more per "mile," the ride
will be just as fun!
In fact--since all the periphe6412 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005640 06463155371 0013115 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from u3.farm.idt.net (root@u3.farm.idt.net [169.132.8.12]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03879 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:50:29 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:43:38 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: Sue Norris <sue@raton.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
References: <199801261747.KAA11272@r2d2.raton.com>
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Sue Norris wrote:
>
> Remember, I am not commenting on the inconsiderate few, I am referring
> to the majority that control both their dogs and their children.
While that may be the case, it is the "few" that will ruin it for all.
let me restate that I am a dog breeder/shower myself...I love dogs but
they *must* be kept in control at all times.
I am not in favor of banning dogs from rides, though it seems that that
is the trend.
I am sorry
> that you have had such bad experiences, but just because one person sets a
> bad example, does that mean that the rest of us have to be chastised?
I am quite sorry that you feel "chastised" If you have nothing to be
ashamed of then there is no reason for it.
Just
> because one persons child is unruly, does that mean the rest of the children
> have to be punished?
Since I am a mother myself, I had not made a comment on the children
aspect ...but I do believe that a campful of horses is a potentially
dangerous place and children need to be supervised. Punishment is best
left to the parent, who hopefully will deal with a situation if it is
pointed out to them (hopefully they have noticed looong before you have
and deal with it)
Again, I am aware that some people simply do not like children, and that
is definitely within their rights. If that is the case, hopefully there
is enough room to move around camp to a spot more to everyone's liking.
As far as dogs go, I am not the one doing the punishing....inconsiderate
dog owners will do that to ALL the dog owners by letting their dogs run
loose at rides. All it will take is one bite inccident at a ride, for
that ride manager to say "fine, no more".
As I said, most of the people that I know at the rides
> that bring dogs, control them quite well, and that is ALOT. I will
> definitely make sure that my dog does not pee on your stuff or your food. So
> count me as one you don't have to worry about.
>
Excellent! if everyone at rides were as considerate as you, this topic
may have never even have come up....unfortunately, it appears that there
are ALOT of uncontrolled dogs out there, and those are the ones that get
remembered.
tracy
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:53:56 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: Eric & Gail Hought <hought@humboldt1.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
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Eric & Gail Hought wrote:
>
> I use EZ-Ride stirrups and like them real well. I bought them with the
> cages, but they were so uncomfortable with the cages that I stopped and cut
> the cages out after only 4 miles.(I know, I could have exchanged them, but
> I was on a ride.) I've used them for about a year and half.
>
Gail, what was it about the cages that you didn't like?
tracy
thinking of yet another thing to spend money on :)
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:00:18 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: sue@raton.com (Sue Norris)
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
>To: zebella@idt.net
>From: sue@raton.com (Sue Norris)
>Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
>
>Tracy,
>
> I think that this conversation proves that we both agree that everybody
has rights, and not everybody loves dogs or children. As a dog owner and
mother I can only do my part to be considerate of other peoples feelings.
All I was trying to point out was in my experience the majority of people
that go to endurance rides are very considerate of everybody's right to
their own space, and as group I think we are a great bunch of people. I
think that this is something that just has to be dealt with on an individual
basis, and hopefully we all will try to strive to remember our neighbors
feelings more often. Enough said.
>
> Happy Trails, SueSue Norris wrote:
>>>
>>> Remember, I am not commenting on the inconsiderate few, I am referring
>>> to the majority that control both their dogs and their children.
>>
>>While that may be the case, it is the "few" that will ruin it for all.
>>let me restate that I am a dog breeder/shower myself...I love dogs but
>>they *must* be kept in control at all times.
>>
>>I am not in favor of banning dogs from rides, though it seems that that
>>is the trend.
>>
>>I am sorry
>>> that you have had such bad experiences, but just because one person sets a
>>> bad example, does that mean that the rest of us have to be chastised?
>>
>>I am quite sorry that you feel "chastised" If you have nothing to be
>>ashamed of then there is no reason for it.
>>
>> Just
>>> because one persons child is unruly, does that mean the rest of the children
>>> have to be punished?
>>
>>Since I am a mother myself, I had not made a comment on the children
>>aspect ...but I do believe that a campful of horses is a potentially
>>dangerous place and children need to be supervised. Punishment is best
>>left to the parent, who hopefully will deal with a situation if it is
>>pointed out to them (hopefully they have noticed looong before you have
>>and deal with it)
>>
>>Again, I am aware that some people simply do not like children, and that
>>is definitely within their rights. If that is the case, hopefully there
>>is enough room to move around camp to a spot more to everyone's liking.
>>
>>As far as dogs go, I am not the one doing the punishing....inconsiderate
>>dog owners will do that to ALL the dog owners by letting their dogs run
>>loose at rides. All it will take is one bite inccident at a ride, for
>>that ride manager to say "fine, no more".
>>
>> As I said, most of the people that I know at the rides
>>> that bring dogs, control them quite well, and that is ALOT. I will
>>> definitely make sure that my dog does not pee on your stuff or your food. So
>>> count me as one you don't have to worry about.
>>>
>>
>>Excellent! if everyone at rides were as considerate as you, this topic
>>may have never even have come up....unfortunately, it appears that there
>>are ALOT of uncontrolled dogs out there, and those are the ones that get
>>remembered.
>>
>>tracy
>>
>
and as group I think we are a great bunch of people. I
think that this is something that just has to be dealt with on an individual
basis, and hopefully we all will try to strive to remember our neighbors
feelings more often. Enough said.
>
> Happy Trails, SueSue Norris wrote:
>>>
>>> Remember, I am not commenting on the inconsiderate few, I am referring
>>> to the majority that contro6415 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000004100 06463157246 0013111 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from tdcnet.ca.gov (ns2.tdcnet.ca.gov [134.186.4.253]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA05945 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:06:09 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Bringing up baby
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:59:00 -0800
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We do pony our babies a lot. Luckily we live where we can let the
extra horse run along loose. This puts miles on them and exposes them
to trail stuff. They also learn the local trails this way making it
much easier when it's time to ride. The only thing I do not like about
ponying horses a lot is that it makes them want to stick like glue to
the horse in front of them. After all, that's what we're teaching them
to do. If you pony correctly, keeping the extra horse right up near
your leg (out of the way of your saddle horse's feet) and not letting
them go ahead of the horse you're riding, this teaches them NOT to pass
another horse. This can be a problem later on unless, of course, you
want to be second forever.
Another thing you can do is trailer them all over the place to your
friends houses, unload them, have a cup of coffee and a little visit
while they are tied up to something safe (while you watch them
carefully, of course) load up and go home. All this exposure to short
trailer rides and loading and unloading at different places is very
educational for any horse. And if they decide not to get back in,
you're at a friendly place and not alongside the road somewhere.
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <vans@cyberspy.com>, "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
Cc: <ann@cornerstonemgt.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: picket lines
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:33:07 -0800
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A clarification on chain. For high line, rope that does not reach the ground
would be safest, but horse cannot graze. For grazing stakeout, the safest
would be cable or rope through hose stiff enough so that any loop that forms
will be way too large to close on a leg. Chain, if it is heavy enough can be
used. Rope has a higher potential for problems, and light chain even higher.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Angela C. McGhee <rides2far@juno.com>
To: vans@cyberspy.com <vans@cyberspy.com>
Cc: ann@cornerstonemgt.com <ann@cornerstonemgt.com>; ridecamp@endurance.net
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Sunday, January 25, 1998 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: picket lines
>
>I have seen a horse royally chewed up by a chain. Wouldn't be caught
>dead using one. When I have the long rope tight, and the lead rope where
>it just lets him tug a little to reach the ground all is well.
>
>Angie
>On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 20:05:03 -0500 "Frank W. Vans Evers"
><vans@cyberspy.com> writes:
>>If yu have room for a picket line, what about a light chain and a
>>ground
>>stake? A chain won't bunch up around a horses feet, a 10 foot chain
>>give
>>a 20' circle, what do you think?
>>
>>/s/ Frank (seffner Florida)
>>
>>--------
>>
>>Ann Perry wrote:
>>>
>>> Just read Lucy's bad picket line story and thought I'd come out of
>>lurk mode
>>> for a minute. I've never used a picket line, but have had problems
>>with
>>> tying to the trailer--line gets caught under fender, horse panics
>>and pulls
>>> back, breaking snap, making people sleeping in camper think it's an
>>> earthquake, etc. I'd get a Horsin' Around corral if I could
>>justify/afford
>>> it; but until then what about a picket line? They do look like an
>>accident
>>> waiting to happen. All that rope AND a horse! However, last year in
>>> Endurance News there was info on a picket system you can buy that
>>uses
>>> pulleys and weights to keep the slack out of the halter rope. Looked
>>like it
>>> might help. I have the info (somewhere) and will try to find it if
>>anyone's
>>> interested. I most likely will try it myself this summer. Has
>>anybody seen
>>> or used it?
>>>
>>> Back to lurk mode,
>>> Ann
>>
>>--
>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>Frank W. Vans Evers
>>mailto:vans@cyberspy.com or mailto:vans@ccfs.centcom.mil
>>
>>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:02:54 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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To: Sue Norris <sue@raton.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
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Sue Norris wrote:
> think that this is something that just has to be dealt with on an individual
> basis, and hopefully we all will try to strive to remember our neighbors
> feelings more often. Enough said.
>
Amen, let's hope that some who never thought about it have done so!
tracy
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:20:19 -0500
Subject: Opening the Dog Debacle
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Hello folks!
Have to tell you. I didn't mean to open this can of worms when I
asked about dogs and trail riding. I just wanted to know if anyone on
Ridecamp had had a dog who had problems with dewclaws, and had elected
to have them removed. Nothing more.
Our dogs go on training rides with us, and accompany us only on rides
where they are welcome. Fortunately, they are very well behaved, and
we are religious about keeping them leashed, and staying away from
camps while on 'potty walks.' They nap in our camper while we're
riding. And while the one dog gives us the woeful look as we tack up,
we've been told by our neighbors that they relax once we're out of
site.
I made the error of indicating that we cry when we leave them in camp.
I should have said that they cry when left home, which they do, when
we can get my brother in law to come and watch them while we're away.
As we load the camper and horse trailer, you'd think we were torturing
them from the cries and depressed behavior. For some reason, at
competitions, they seem to realize that this is not their gig, and
they chaw on their rawhides, and wait for us to return. It works best
when we can leave them at home, or if one of us is back at camp,
simply because they can get all the attention they want, when they
want it. But they're good dogs, and they cope, as we don't always
have options for dog-sitters.... Plenty of water, some entertainment,
and we park as far as possible away in case our neighbors don't like
seeing our hairballs. And, fortunately, they behave.
I've seen the havoc a misbehaved dog, a misbehaved child, a misbehaved
horse, etc., can cause in a crowd. Fortunately, I think they're few
and far between (at least in our experience) and mightily rebuked!
I think we try to be considerate, and respect the wishes of those not
interested in our critters, as the majority of people who have horses,
dogs, children, reptiles, etc., do.
Sorry for opening this up, as its one of those things that people have
VERY strong opinions on, and I sincerely doubt that anyone is likely
to convince anyone to change their stance on it. I will grant that it
has made me *think* about the topic, and this is the purpose of the
board.
*THANK YOU* to everyone who e-mailed me privately to encourage us to
do the dewclaw removal. We did, and despite the fact that she opened
the stitches :( on one surgery incision, and lost that wonderful
invention, the elizabethan collar (we call it the 'reverse lampshade')
somewhere on our acreage (in the snow, and it is white, and snowed
again -- making it unlikely to that we'll find it before May!). We're
pleased that we've reduced the likelihood of her injury on our
training rides. That's the name of the game for us and our animals.
Be well, all.
--Patti (and Deva -- who is trying to think of a new and ingenious way
of complicating her surgery recovery)
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Chain tie-out
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:22:00 -0800
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I don't like the idea of chain. I would rather use something that will
actually break under high stress than something as unforgiving as chain.
If there's an emergency, you can't even cut it with a knife. If it
comes to the rope breaking or the horse tearing himself up, I'd rather
have the rope break. That's why I like to have a snap on the end of the
rope instead of just knots. Snaps will break.
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs on the Loose
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:45:23 -0500
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I agree with you that I have never seen a loose kid pee on the hay or
anything else at the vet check but I have seen many many dogs hike a leg
on all sorts of things at the vet check.
And when has a child bitten someone or rummaged through someone elses
food or stole someones meat off the grill?
Children are children and are not the same as dogs, in no way or form!
I think that leashed and controlled dogs are OK in camp.
But please don'nt let them poop or pee where people walk or put their
vet things and if they do be prepared to clean it up.
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From: aburson@webtv.net (Anita Burson)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:58:27 -0600
To: twhowe@inetworld.net
Cc: cyndi.craig@chron.com (Cyndi Craig), ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
Subject: Re: is this fair?
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I think the 25 milers are not treated like stepchildren at all. Why,
they can do that ride even if they're not AERC members and don't even
have to pay any additional fee for the priviledge of having safe, marked
trails, vet care, camping facilities and prizes awarded. To my mind,
that means that those AERC MEMBERS who choose to ride limited distance
are being discriminated against. And I hope that this issue was also
addressed at the BOD in Lexington.
Adding a non-member fee to the limited distance rides is also another
way to generate monies--an issue near and dear to all our hearts!
I ride very few limited distance rides anymore--50 miles is my distance
choice at this time. But in Central Region, there are a great many
25/30 milers (rarely less than the number of 50 milers and generally a
good deal more) and while I have no statistics at hand, I believe a good
many of these riders are not AERC members. Would you be if you could
have all the benefits of membership without the cost?
Cyndi Craig states the fee issue of one ride (that being 25-$55; 50-$75;
and l00-$75). At first glance it does appear that the 25's fee is a bit
hefty. I'm not the ride manager of that ride but there may be
circumstances that make that fee more realistic than it seems. Many of
the 25 milers are new to the sport (and that's where they should be) and
often don't yet know the importance of pacing the ride, using
electrolytes, etc. etc., which can require additional vet/personnel
attention. Occasionally, they do a loop, figure it's enough and load up
and go home without notifying management. Sheer numbers of those riders
also tie up the vet checks sometimes. Not everyone has an experienced
rider to show them how the process goes and that task falls to other
riders and vet check personnel to help teach-- something we're all happy
to do most of the time.
I don't mean to say that these are the reasons for the fees, or that
they could be the only reasons for perceived disparity in costs to
riders--just some things to think about. I'm sure I've missed some
stuff here as well. Undoubtedly, someone will let me know!
Anita Burson
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:59:14 -0800
From: katja <halfmeyer@cc.ucsf.edu>
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Hi group,
I have 5 min. on my hands, so I thought I put in my 2cents worth and try
to explain some dressage stuff.....<excuse my English though>
Making the horse go sidewards there are TWO different exercises one can
do: The first option a rider has is the one that is appropriate for the
more unexperienced horse-rider combination. It is basically the start to
teach a horse to move away from the pressure of the rider's leg. The
rider leans towards the side he/she wants the horse to move AWAY from,
that means if one wants the horse to move away/sidewards responding to
pressure applied to the LEFT side of the horse, the riders leans a
little bit to the LEFT side by shifting his/her weight to the LEFT
seat-bone. Making the horse move away from pressure on the right side
of the horse, the rider shifts weight to the right seat-bone, okay?
Starting this lection, the rider has to make sure FIRST that the horse
is bend gently to the side the rider wants to apply the pressure to and
wants the horse to move away from, so that means:
1. introduction.....horse gently bend to the left, so that the horse's
left eye becomes slightly visible to the rider. Try to follow some kind
of fence on your right side, makes the introduction a lot easier!
2. gently shift your weight to the left side, if necessary shorten the
left rein a bit, have contact to the horse on the right rein as well,
because you want to stay on a straight line after all.
3. move the horse away from the fenceline a little bit, towards the
center of the arena <or the imaginal "circle" you are on in an open
field>. Use your RIGHT leg to do so together with some more of the left
rein, at the same time have enough contact on the right rein to still
follow some sort of straight line, if you don't make sure you have some
kind of a straight line in your mind, you end up on a circle....
4. now is the time to apply as much pressure on the LEFT side of the
horse as the rider is capable of doing, you sort of push the horse into
the sideward movement out of the position you and the horse are in after
the "introduction". Be sure to still have the horse bended to the left
side... Your right leg remains a hand width behind the girth and makes
sure that the horse's rear end is not just walking straight while the
front end pretends to move sidewards. <isn't it neat how horses always
find ways around special exercise..?!>If communication is well
established, your horse should move sidewards now.......<e-mail me for
trouble-shooting>
Okay?! Understandable?!
The other lection possible in dressage is for the more advanced
horse-rider and leads to those fancy sideward movements in trott and
canter you can see at highest level dressage shows...the german folks
call it: Traversale
This time the rider leans INTO the direction he/she and the horse want
to go while the leg-aid remains very similar to the exercise I described
above. the seat-bone shift is so to say opposite to the exercise
described above. The aim is to keep the horse as straight as possible in
the spin and still move sidewards. This exercise is for advanced horses
that passed the stage of learning to bend, relax and respond to the
rider's aids, it does not bend, flex or help the horse to understand the
rider if horse and rider haven't been clear BEFORE they start training
this exercise.
My experience is very similar to Erin's lecture about horses versus
waterballs, once they learned to move AWAY from pressure <which is a
tough exercise for them, Monty Roberts observed that horses are INTO
pressure animals> the rider should start using this advantage and train
on sideward movements by shifting weight to the side he/she wants the
horse to move AWAY from. In this case it works like sitting on a
waterball and it helps to bend and flex the horse at the same time. I
also consider it as a good exercise to train on communication between
horse and rider and to do some fine-tuning on leg aids.
Allright, enough of lecture, back to work! Have fun trying some of the
stuff if you feel like it, hope this info helps...........
Katja
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:26:50 EST
To: rides2far@JUNO.COM, ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-26 13:34:08 EST, you write:
<< I hear a lot of 25's say they think they shouldn't be left out of
awards...just because they don't have time to train as much... I wonder
how they would like to be one of us "also rans" who complete 50s year
after year, just out of the awards. We could drop down and clean up, but
don't want to. We don't ride for awards. I see nothing wrong with doing
25's forever if that's your thing. But I also see no glory whatsoever in
bragging that you win them.
>>
Like anything else competitive, recognition for accomplishment is alway
desired and appreciated. Being an "also ran" in endurance tends to run in
cotrast to the motto. Dropping down and "cleaning up" as is routinely done in
the shows is abhorrent and in decidedly bad form. I suppose the 100 milers
could say the same about the 50 milers, even those 50 milers who WIn. Bragging
is not the same as taking great satisfaction in having completed something
that few attempt and even fewer complete. The GLORY IS in the completion, and
for us, in the doing. Acknowledgement for haing done the job is appropriate
for ANY level, and not to be misunderstood - most don't boast but enjoy the
victory. Some enjoy the boaasting as well (ick!) and so many more are so very
pleased and rpoud to have done it at all. SO SO SO .
sandy
and clean up, but
don't want to. We don't ride for awards. I see nothing wrong6424 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001630 06463174510 0013107 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo20.mx.aol.com (imo20.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.177]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15787 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 12:59:47 -0800 (PST)
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In all this debate about what is fair, not fair, etc., where is the idea that
we are all out there to do the best we can with what we have and enjoy the
trail, the camaraderie, and the performance of our horses? The rest is all
window dressing.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:12:47 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
Cc: BikoNMe@aol.com
Biko N Me wrote:
>>Are Thoroughbreds good for Endurance?????
Arikara Appoloosa wrote:
>NO
I think that's a bad answer. It's not that simple.
Most TBs can easily finish 25 or 50 miles. Some win.
Some can do 100 miles.
You don't see them too often. I think that might be
because the sound ones are used for 3 day eventing
and jumping... stuff like that. Plus, they tend
to be big. On the other hand, there are plenty of
15.2 to 15.3 TB's out there (and smaller) and 16H
Arabs. A TB in dressage, 3 day eventing, or show
jumping is going to be an expensive horse. Most
people don't shell out that kind of money to do
endurance on a TB when the Arabs dominate the sport
and you can buy one that's won Tevis or OD for
$10K.
Magnum had good recoveries. I posted them once.
If this horse didn't have an off-the-track injury,
watch out! My next one will also be a TB and will
not have a serious off-the-track injury.
As for the feet, hell, Magnum has soft feet, but
with Dynamite and proper diet (like mom balancing
the Ca+/P) his feet are great.
It's much easier to find a 100 mile arab, but nothing
is black and white. For instance, my TB is better
suited for endurance than an Arab I know. Plus, the
muscle fiber will adapt to a certain degree with
conditioning. It just depends.
If you are going to spend a lot of time with your
horse you need to like him. It's that simple. If
you have a TB and you enjoy riding, I think your TB
can do fine in Endurance.
:) - kat myers
In San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:31:03 EST
To: dfletche@GTE.NET, vans@cyberspy.com, ann@cornerstonemgt.com,
paus@micoks.net
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Haven't seen a comment on prep before tying a leg to a ground tie. Having
known a few horses that panic when 'caught' in anything. I would suggest
something like Parelli's desensitizing method or any other that 'trains' the
horse to 'release' pressure.
I use a 12' soft lead rope lightly hook behind pastern; ask with a gentle
pressure for the horse to pick his foot up. Some will comply, some will pull
away. I release one end if over reacting and start quietly again. Never try
to hold-this only confirms his need to panic. When this is comfortable; I ask
him to put his foot down slightly forward/backward or outward. When this is
comfortable; I then ask him to lead by the leg. (Some horses are leading
quietly in 15/20 minutes & some take longer. Sometimes hindlegs take longer
also). This has a tendency to also help a horse not to panic if tangled and
no help is around. Cindy
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on Monday, 26 January 1998, 16:30:05 EST
From: "Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:29:02 EST
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Subject: home fly spray
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Since Avon Skin So Soft already is useful at repelling bugs, i would
think that you could exclude the citronella from the recipe without
compromising its effectiveness, if you are concerned about using it.
Lysane and Buck
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on Monday, 26 January 1998, 17:23:57 EST
From: "Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:23:28 EST
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Subject: Hobbles
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While on the subject of methods of tying up horses at rides (picket
lines, etc.) does anyone ever use hobbles? I have never used them so
i am just curious. Do they work? I seem to remember hearing that some
horses are not "stopped" from wandering very far and can get used to
them
and teach themselves to walk away on you to whereever they may
desire, even with hobbles on. That would not be a could thing I
imagine if the horse hobbled off (maybe that is where that expression
came from! :) and stirred up trouble somewhere else.
Lysane and Buck
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:28:25 EST
To: mlaboure@FLASH.NET, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Heart monitor loses contact
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<HTML><FONT COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" SIZE=3>In a message dated 98-01-23
22:19:01 EST, mlaboure@flash.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< <FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3>My husband uses a VMax heart monitor which
seems to be working well, has<BR>
new batteries. But it loses contact with the horse! Is there a better<BR>
place to put it on the horse, or is there a better salve to maintain<BR>
contact. Thanks for info.</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" BACK="#FFFFFF"
SIZE=3> >><BR>
<BR>
Make sure your girth is tight enough to hold it in place.....<BR>
<BR>
Teddy<BR>
</HTML>
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Reply-To: <capape@worldnet.att.net>
From: "Carol Harrison" <capape@worldnet.att.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: EP-Las Cruces results?? Feed question
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:06:43 -0800
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Hi gang,
Would someone kindly let me know the results of the El Paso-Las Cruces
2-day ride last weekend? I'm curious.
Has anyone had any experience with the Farr Better (Nutrena) feed for
endurance horses that is advertised in the Endurance News? Pros/cons??
Also, somewhere I heard that Purina makes a feed designed for endurance
horses. Does anyone know the name of it or did I only dream that they made
one?
Thanks,
Carol and Dakota (just back from training)
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:43:20 -0600
To: "C.M.Newell" <reshan@deyr.ultranet.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs on the Loose
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980126094009.00851c10@pop.ma.ultranet.com>
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when my boys were younger, I wouldn't have put it past them. They were
raised with an outhouse, so they are fairly unhibited about bodily
functions still! When my 19 year old was 6, he stopped and took a dump as
soon as he got off the school bus, in front of everybody!
chris paus & star
At 09:40 AM 1/26/98 -0500, C.M.Newell wrote:
>At 08:51 AM 1/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>What about the loose kids causing trouble, the same for
>>them?? I'd go for that.
>
> I won't say it's impossible, but I haven't yet seen a loos kid pee on
>anyone's hay...
> --CMNewell
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:47:18 -0600
To: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee), twhowe@inetworld.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Cc: cyndi.craig@chron.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <19980127.012949.3334.6.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Well, seeing as how I'm a relative newcomer to the sport, I would
definitely claim bragging rights to winning a 25. I plan tomove up to 50s,
but need some experience as shorter distances first.
chris paus & star
At 01:31 PM 1/26/98 EST, Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 01:49:21 -0800 Terry Woolley Howe
><cancer@inetworld.net> writes:
>>Cyndi Craig wrote:
>>>
>>> i've been doing 25s for about a year. i am happy doing 25s -- i
>>don't
>>> have time to train for longer distances - i have another horse i
>>compete
>>> with in dressage -- and i don't want to do 50s.
>>>
>>> i have been getting the feeling that the LD riders are the
>>> "stepchildren" of the aerc,
>>
>I hear a lot of 25's say they think they shouldn't be left out of
>awards...just because they don't have time to train as much... I wonder
>how they would like to be one of us "also rans" who complete 50s year
>after year, just out of the awards. We could drop down and clean up, but
>don't want to. We don't ride for awards. I see nothing wrong with doing
>25's forever if that's your thing. But I also see no glory whatsoever in
>bragging that you win them.
>
>Now I'm in trouble
>Angie and Kaboot
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>
C21.7C2@inetworld.net>
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Well, seeing as how I'm a relative newcomer to the sport, I would
definitely claim bragg6433 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003705 06463221006 0013105 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo18.mx.aol.com (imo18.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.175]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA26251 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:53:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Merryben <Merryben@aol.com>
Message-ID: <69178e4b.34cd1f83@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:42:57 EST
To: zebella@IDT.NET
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Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
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I am afraid that the trend is for dogs not to be allowed at rides. I feel
that this is unfortunate because of the relatively few offenders. They also,
always seem to be the same people time after time. Dogs in camp rules are
like any other rules. It is hard to do but if a dog is running loose [even
your best friend's] you need to go to ride management and insist that they
enforce their own rules. I personally take four dogs to the rides that allow
dogs. Most of the time no one even realizes they are there. They spend most
of their time in the trailer but believe me, they prefer that to being left at
home alone. Also, they have great fun on the trip there and back. They get
to walk around at rest stops and play and have a great time. What really
angers me the most is the occasions I have paid money I cannot afford to board
my dogs and see loose dogs at the ride that says the rider will be
disqualified. I have never seen the rule enforced but you can bet that after
being disqualified a rider would think twice before breaking that particular
rule again. At one ride, my Rott/Dobe cross decided to bark at night. After
about 5-10 barks Igot her out of the trailer and let her sleep in the camper.
Not good training for her but good manners for me. She has only done that
once, thank God. Also, at the risk of being chastised severely, it seems that
people who own little dogs think the rules don't apply to them. Why is
that?......Maryben
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:52:38 -0600
To: "Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: home fly spray
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I think citronella is what makes Skin So Soft do its bug repelling job. A
little boost from some more citronella won't hurt.
chris paus & star
At 04:29 PM 1/26/98 EST, Lysane Cree wrote:
>Since Avon Skin So Soft already is useful at repelling bugs, i would
>think that you could exclude the citronella from the recipe without
>compromising its effectiveness, if you are concerned about using it.
>Lysane and Buck
>
>
>
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:01:08 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: pony saddle needed
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My 2 1/2 year old grandson finally wanted to ride his pony this weekend.
Until recently, he's been terrified of horses, but with gentle reassurance,
he has grown to really like them, and now goes to the refrigerator for
carrots to take to the horses as soon as he gets to grandma's house.
I desperately need a saddle for a shetland pony. Anyone have one to sell?
English or western, it doesn't matter. I've been using my 17" hunt seat
saddle on the pony and it is way too big. Her back is only 18" from teh
withers to the hips!
I'm hoping I have a trail riding buddy in the making.
chris paus & star
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:18:25 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Re: EP-Las Cruces results?? Feed question
In-Reply-To: <19980126230330.AAA16632@default>
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At 05:06 PM 1/26/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hi gang,
>
>Would someone kindly let me know the results of the El Paso-Las Cruces
>2-day ride last weekend? I'm curious.
>
>Has anyone had any experience with the Farr Better (Nutrena) feed for
>endurance horses that is advertised in the Endurance News? Pros/cons??
>Also, somewhere I heard that Purina makes a feed designed for endurance
>horses. Does anyone know the name of it or did I only dream that they made
>one?
>
>Thanks,
>Carol and Dakota (just back from training)
>
I use Farr with good results. Farr makes a shreaded beet based feed which
is high in fiber (beet) and high in fat (about 6%) and fortified with lots
of good stuff including probiotics. It is not advertised nationally
because you cannot get it nationally. The Farr rep told me they
retrofitted a mill somewhere in the western states (at least west of the
Mississippi) to fill the feed. It is good and I reccomend it. It's called
Legacy. Their other feed are also good. The are a lot more consistant
than most of the other brands I have tried.
Truman
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From: CMKSAGEHIL <CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <604e4972.34cd2c6f@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:37:51 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in camp
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Just had to get my .02 in on this one. In addition to the obvious endurance
and Arabian addiction, I breed and show English Mastiffs. I dearly love my
dogs, and they are my companions. I would no more turn them loose at a horse
event than I would turn my horses loose at a dog show. If all horse people
would abide by the adage that "Unleashed Is Unloved" we would all get along.
Dogs on leash or confined to their own camping areas do not spook horses, do
not trip up horses or people, do not swipe food, do not make messes in other
people's spaces or walkways, etc., etc. I prefer to leave mine home, because
there is nothing for them to do at an endurance ride. I can also relate to
those who do not have dogsitters at home and have no choice. If that is the
case, do your homework and be a responsible dog owner. Not only do others
around you appreciate it, but your dog's safety and welfare rest with how
responsibly you control your dog.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (and Willow Creek Mastiffs)--(Oregon)
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To: hought@humboldt1.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
Message-ID: <19980127.082611.6726.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:27:16 EST
I have the cages and like them, but my foot goes all the way to the cage,
I wondered what people with larger feet would do. I wear size 8 women's,
or size 7 men's shoes.
Angie
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:50:28 -0800 "Eric & Gail Hought"
<hought@humboldt1.com> writes:
>I use EZ-Ride stirrups and like them real well. I bought them with
>the
>cages, but they were so uncomfortable with the cages that I stopped
>and cut
>the cages out after only 4 miles.(I know, I could have exchanged them,
>but
>I was on a ride.) I've used them for about a year and half.
>
>Gail and Shaq
>
>hought@humboldt1.com
>
>http://www.hought.com
>
>
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To: SandyDSA@aol.com
Cc: rides2far@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:27:15 EST
I truly believe "To Finish is to Win" at any distance. But I also
believe that any horse that wins a 25 could have done a nice solid
completion with less effort on a 50. If they're 4 and couldn't enter the
50, they shouldn't have gone fast enough to win the 25. I guess that's
why I just can't see being...oh, top 5. There are some people in the
back of top 10 in the 25 around here who ride a very nice race on well
conditioned horses...come to think of it, they probably could finish a 50
too. By the way, when I top tenned in the 50's several times this year,
several people asked, "Isn't it about time you did a 100?" So I did, and
they were right, we were ready and I enjoyed it.
Angie McGhee and Kaboot (who seemed to enjoy it too)
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:26:50 EST SandyDSA@aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 98-01-26 13:34:08 EST, you write:
>
><< I hear a lot of 25's say they think they shouldn't be left out of
> awards...just because they don't have time to train as much... I
>wonder
> how they would like to be one of us "also rans" who complete 50s year
> after year, just out of the awards. We could drop down and clean up,
>but
> don't want to. We don't ride for awards. I see nothing wrong with
>doing
> 25's forever if that's your thing. But I also see no glory
>whatsoever in
> bragging that you win them.
> >>
>Like anything else competitive, recognition for accomplishment is
>alway
>desired and appreciated. Being an "also ran" in endurance tends to run
>in
>cotrast to the motto. Dropping down and "cleaning up" as is routinely
>done in
>the shows is abhorrent and in decidedly bad form. I suppose the 100
>milers
>could say the same about the 50 milers, even those 50 milers who WIn.
>Bragging
>is not the same as taking great satisfaction in having completed
>something
>that few attempt and even fewer complete. The GLORY IS in the
>completion, and
>for us, in the doing. Acknowledgement for haing done the job is
>appropriate
>for ANY level, and not to be misunderstood - most don't boast but
>enjoy the
>victory. Some enjoy the boaasting as well (ick!) and so many more are
>so very
>pleased and rpoud to have done it at all. SO SO SO .
>sandy
>
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From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801270145.AA03213@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: re: dogs and kids in camp
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Maybe we should have rules that dogs AND kids (well toddlers) should
be on a leash or in a fence/play pen at all times. I have no problem
with people taking dogs or kids to a ride. My horse is used to rambuctious
dogs underfoot (my dogs dont come with me to rides) and I sure don't mind
kids playing at a ride but I don't like to see young kids running loose near
excited horses. If your kid doesn't know to stay well away from horses
or your dog is not well enough trained then keep a hold of them or confine
them - your presence in the general vicinity is not enough and I don't
ever want to live with seeing my horse step on a child. And please tell
the pit crew, and any friends who dropped by just to see what a ride was
like.
Teresa
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To: BikoNMe@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:19:32 -0800
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
Message-ID: <19980126.181055.4670.0.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
>Are Thoroughbreds good for Endurance?????
YES. I ride a TB mare and am very pleased with how we've done and how
well she's held
up. It's harder to find one that's suited to this sport, but once you do,
watch out !!!
Kris
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To: Trishmare@aol.com
Cc: grs@consider.theneteffect.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:40:25 -0800
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
Message-ID: <19980126.181055.4670.1.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
!! As often
>as I've
>ever been bothered by a dog who was noisy at inappropriate times, who
>ran wild
>and loose about camp, who came over and messed with my stuff, and who
>proved
>bothersome if not downright dangerous to the horses (as well as
>itself)--well,
>AT LEAST that often have I experienced some other campers kids acting
>this
>way.
Have those children peed on your hay or bit at your horse's heels?
Kris
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To: arikaras@iafrica.com
Cc: BikoNMe@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:49:46 -0800
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
>NO
>
>----------
>> From: Biko N Me <BikoNMe@aol.com>
>> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>> Subject: Thoroughbreds
>> Date: 25 January 1998 05:17
>>
>> Hello,
>> Are Thoroughbreds good for Endurance?????
-------------------------
Why such an emphatic no? I race a TB. We top ten, win and have 100%
completion in 400
miles of competition ( I know this is no biggie - yet). She's 11 this
year and I fully expect, with careful
conditioning and wise choice of pacing, to enjoy racing her for many
years to come. It takes a different
way of dealing with, but hey. It'd be very boring if they were all the
same !!
Kris
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Message-ID: <34CD1EA8.6887@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:39:29 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: Dorothy Beebe <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
CC: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
References: <19980126185326001.AAA247.224@pcda>
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Dorothy,
Dorothy Beebe wrote:
>
> When I bought my Arab, I hadn't even heard of endurance riding--all, right,
> I admit it: I bought her because she was BEAUTIFUL!!
>
> When I discovered endurance riding, I was thrilled. Here was something I
> could do with my horse that didn't require a lot of special stuff (or so I
> thought when I started). I traded in my distance bike riding for distance
> horse back riding--its much more fun and no one looks at your strangely for
> talking to your horse!!
>
> I started with 25s, noticed the price difference, and it just made me want
> to be ready to do 50's all that much sooner. However, when I start my colt
> on endurance, I plan to bring him along slowly and we'll probably only do
> 25s for the first 2 years. Although the cost is more per "mile," the ride
> will be just as fun!
>
> In fact--since all the peripheral costs are the same--HOW COME WE HAVE TO
> PAY MORE FOR 50'S AND 75'S???
Dorothy...I never thought about that!...wonder if any other ride mgrs.
have...actually, it might not be a bad idea, now that you've mentioned
it. I think we all get locked into what's always been, and an exchange
of ideas from others, especially newcomers, is refreshing....I'm manag-
ing the FLORIDA ENDURANCE CLASSIC (7 March) and labored over how to
price the distances..(I do every year), based kind of, on the miles rid-
den...this is probably how the pricing got started and no-one ever
thought of changing it to a blanket fee....the costs involved ARE the
same, no matter what distance one is riding. The comments from other
ride mgrs. have been right on....managing a sanctioned ride of multiple
distances is a business arrangement...there is a budget to be reckoned
with...quite sizeable when one really tallies everything. Much of the
time, it is an individual or couple, not a club or organization, who
front their own $$ to run the thing...it usually is not profitable, or
even a break-even situation, as the business end gets lost with trying
to make everyone happy (entries all coming in at the last minute, etc.)
as "that's how everybody does it" thinking prevails...then you wonder
why you feel flattened in many respects afterwards, even though one
might not have lost $$ if the awards weren't so many and so costly
(thinking that more would have entered...playing the guessing game on
Tee shirts, etc.)....Soooo, as an active competitor, and wanting to give
something back to the sport etc., etc., my husband and I put on this
ride here in Fl....this year, we're doing it differently so as not to
go bannanas and broke. We're closing out the entries 2 wks. before the
ride, giving a full (minus $15 admin. fee) refund up to 2 days before
the ride..partial after that...partial to no vet-ins and then we'll
know what we're dealing with in the way of #s for everything! Something
inside me feels real good about that...and I'm a competitor...I do as
I'm allowed...enter late, etc.; hate to part with that $ too much ahead
of time, and all the rest. Human nature follows the path of least re-
sistance, so why not? (My awareness of ride mgr. headaches is a LOT
keener now..I try to communicate more, even if it's not insisted upon).
A flat entry fee, sort of like a flat tax? might not be a bad idea..then
all really would be equal in the dept. of expenses incurred in staging
an event...(for instance, my husband and I were trying to figure out
how many riders we need pre-entered by the cut-off date to make the ride
a "go"...we just had to guess at a jumble of possible entries at various
distances ( 1-day 100, 50 and 25) and try to average the amount to come
up with a $ figure based on fixed expenses...if the entry fee was the
same: no problem! Coming up with an average would help the 100s as well
as the LDs......Ride managers out there, what do you think about this?
I enjoyed your post Dorothy...best of luck in this sport...it IS fun!
Deena Meyer, Florida
carlmey@citrus.infi.net For entry/info on the FLORIDA ENDURANCE CLASSIC
1 day 100, 50 and LD 25
ENTRIES CLOSE 17 FEB. '98 - SORRY, NO POST ENTRIES
Ride Secretary: Carolyn Tapperson
10416 S. Forestline Ave.
Inverness, Fl. 34452
email: pcttapp@citrus.infi.net
P.S..THERE ARE NO DOGS ALLOWED IN THE WITHLACOOCHEE STATE FOREST (site
of the ride) The ride info states that if you arrive with one, you
may be asked to remove the dog or leave..Forestry is strict about
this; I've listed 2 boarding kennels on my rider info sheets...I
know how nice it is to travel with canine companion(s)..I always
have, and it's a shame not to be able to bring it/them when travel-
ing, let's say, from Ohio....I hope the boarding kennel info will
help..NOW..I said I always have...DID is more like it...I'm a pure-
bred fancier with a dog-show hobby on a WAY back burner..always had
4-6 dogs of 2 or 3 different breeds maybe, with me on rides..always
crated or in exercise pens like at shows, never loose...I walked
them away from the center of activity (did not pick up the dropp-
ings though) etc., etc...I don't think they barked or howled while
my husband and I were on the ride....It was an ENOURMOUS amount of
extra work, but I couldn't go without my dogs....I always resented
the loose dogs coming around our campsite, as mine would go bannan-
as, and yes, the wanderer would pee on stuff and poop away from
his site, (of course)..I have never been able to understand loose
dogs at rides...or anywhere else, for that matter...that's me.
UPDATE: no dogs go with me/us now...the work is MUCH less, trying
to excercise one or more, etc., etc., when there is so much to do
with my equine athlete, and the State Forestry rules that we live
with here in Fl. and many ride rules, we abide with...I fortunately
do not have to board any dogs when going to a ride...that IS an
extra expense and has it's own set of concerns; Not saying that I
would never bring a dog (controlled) to some ride, some where, some
time if it was allowed, but my vote would have to be for NO DOGS AT
RIDES..unfortunately.
D~
>
> Okay, just kidding!! I do think its a pretty fair system and a very
> reasonable cost for the benefits!!
>
> dorothy & elly
> taylorsville
>
> ----------
> > From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
> > To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: Re: is this fair?
> > Date: Friday, January 23, 1998 9:15 AM
> >
> > Okay - I know a way to have everyone fell really good about the fees at
> rides
> > AND the really tough job RMs have in planning these rides for us to enjoy
> - go
> > to a rated Arabian or Saddlebred show. Check out their costs and don't
> forget
> > to count trainers fees. monthly training fees, stall fees, office fee
> > (whatever the heck THAT is - new in 1989), tarnsport fees, 'handling fees
> (now
> > that you have paid for your horse to be traiend ALL MONTH, you ALSO get
> to pay
> > for the traienr to now HANDLE you horse), etc. You get my drift? Trust
> me, you
> > will come aaway thinking "Oh my goodness gracious sakes alive! How LUCKY
> I am!
> > ANd how much more FUN I have!" Just a thought. Let me know who goes.
> > san
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From: Kim Fue <KimFue@aol.com>
Message-ID: <58cac23d.34cd4847@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:36:53 EST
To: SandyDSA@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
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In a message dated 98-01-26 20:03:32 EST, you write:
<< Just a wee more respect is nice! >>
I just don't get this respect thing. This issue has come up more than
once on this list and I don't quite understand what the endurance riders
raising this issue want and what they they define as respect.
At the rides I attend ( which is the same region as Sandy DSA), maybe
it's different in other regions, 25 mile riders get: 1. The same award as the
50 milers 2. Use the same vetting staff as the 50 milers 3. At 90% of the
rides a BC is awarded and at some rides the top 5 B/C are awarded 4. Use the
same facility and get the same dinner as the 50 milers 5. Are enrolled in a
Limited Distance Mileage program through AERC that keeps track of their horses
miles. I think ride managers are as respectful to 25 milers as they are to
50 milers.
The difference I see between a 25 mile ride and a 50 mile ride is that a
50/100 mile ride awards placings based on finishing times and most 25 mile
rides do not award a first place and therefore time (for example - spent in
vet checks - ie. "waiting for the vet") can be a factor for 50 mile placement
where it is not a factor for 25 mile placement because placements are not
given in 25 mile rides. This is the only area I have seen where ride managers
give preference to 50/100 mile riders and it's only an issue when there is a
back up.
Do 25 mile riders want this distance to be like 50/100 mile races where
there is a winner, placings are awarded, points are given based on placing, wt
classes and miles and only top 10 considered for B.C.? Do 25 mile riders want
the "limited distance" program eliminated and points awarded that equal 1/2
the 50 mile distance and therefore be eligible for regional awards with the
50/100 mile rides?
If the respect issue is coming from other riders (ie your peers) it is
something that is not going to be resolved by ride management or through the
AERC. Practicing good trail manners, good sportsmanship and being polite
(which I am guessing this "respect" issue might be coming from) crosses all
distances in endurance riding and I am sure everyone has stories of riders in
"all distances" being disrespectful or rude. Maybe you haven't experienced
because you have only ridden one distance.
If you "respect" the distance you are doing and feel you are doing a
good job what does it matter what other riders think? I know I wouldn't care
what other riders thought if I chose to ride in only one distance. Ride
managers are acknowledging your accomplishment (through awards and anouncing
completions) as well as AERC (through the limited distance program and list LD
rides in EN). I have never been to an awards dinner where 25 mile riders were
not applauded when picking up their award. So, what exactly, do you (25 mile
riders who feel this way) mean when you say you want "respect".
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:51:56 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801270251.SAA05971@fsr.com>
Subject: LOOKING FOR A USED STONEWALL SADDLE
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: debbie zanot
Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
My sister is returning to Endurance after a 7 year Standardbred racing career..Not as much fun as endurance and sooo much more work. She is looking for a used Stonewall saddle..Any one have one they would like to sell?
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <453f9f2a.34cd4b5e@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:50:04 EST
To: carlmey@citrus.infi.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
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In a message dated 98-01-26 21:44:39 EST, you write:
<< In fact--since all the peripheral costs are the same--HOW COME WE HAVE TO
> PAY MORE FOR 50'S AND 75'S???
>>
Yeah - SSHHHH!
s
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:42:23 -0600
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Subject: how true how true
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>JUST INSERT "ARABIAN"
>>
>> HORSE HUSBANDS LAMENT!
>>
>> My wife she has a quarter horse, with flaxen mane and tail
>> She thinks he is the finest thing that ever jogged a rail
>> She calls him Dandy Darling, and if the truth I tell,
>> That fancy pampered quarter horse has made my life pure HELL.
>> My wife she used to cook for ME and serve it with champagne
>> Now she'd rather feed that horse and fix his special grain.
>> She rides him every morning, and grooms him half the night,
>> The last time that she kissed ME it was just to be polite.
>> He dresses better than I do, with matching wraps and ties,
>> My wardrobe's so neglected now that I attract the flies.
>> One day my wife was shopping, she was down at the mall,
>> And fancy pampered DANDY was just standing in his stall.
>> He looked so smug and sassy, that I began to grin,
>> I'd saddle that fat sucker, and take him for a spin.
>> I've wondered since if cues I gave, he might have misconstrued,
>> For when I climbed aboard that horse, he rightly came UNGLUED.
>> He bucked and spun, and snorted fire, and threw me through a fence.
>> I saw big stars and there are 6 teeth that I ain't heard from since.
>> My wife came home and saw me, just a lying in the dirt,
>> She rushed up to her HORSE and asked him, "Sweetheart are you HURT?"
>> He'd scratched his nose a little bit, and the memory galls me yet,
>> She left me lying in the mud, and ran to call the VET!!!
>>
>> Author Unknown
>>
>>
>>
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Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:54:26 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:54:10 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Julie Coats <Julie_Coats@ncsu.edu>
cc: Sullys Maze <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Dogs & kids in Camp
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980126085500.00697dc4@pop-in.ncsu.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.SCO.3.96.980126194432.18619B-100000@delta1.deltanet.com>
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On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Julie Coats wrote:
> Ah, but to people who do not have or want kids,
> dogs, horses, etc are their family and just
> as important to them.
> Julie
And Glenda Snodgrass wrote:
> >Some people don't like dogs. I can understand and live with that. I
> >personally don't like children. However, I am willing to tolerate your
> >well-behaved children at camp if you are willing to tolerate my well-behaved
> >dog. :))
> >
> >The Snodgrass Family
> >Glenda, Lakota (equine) & Bailey (canine)
> >Ruby, Charlie, Jerry & Wilson (serpentine)
> >In Memory Of: Simon & Sarafina (lizardine)
As much as many of us would like to believe that our pets are like our
family and therefore entitled to the same rights as children....just try
convincing the restaurant or movie theater manager of that when you try to
take your pets (dogs or horses) out for a night on the town.
The argument "my dogs are like my children" argument is fatuous, to say
the least. To make such a comparison when talking about where we take
them makes absolutely no sense.
My horses are MY "kids" (I don't have any dogs and I don't have any
children), but I don't expect to be able to take them to Disneyland with
me.
Whether dogs are appropriate companions at endurance rides is a completely
separate question from whether children are appropriate companions at
endurance rides, despite the fact that both dogs and children are loved by
their families and both dogs and children can be well-behaved or poorly
behaved and both dogs and children (assuming that the children are not
riding in the ride) are superfluous to the event.
Note also, that I don't have an opinion about either. I have never been
bothered by bad dogs or bad children at a ride (even those running loose),
but that's just me. The day they tell me that I can't bring my "kids"
(the horse) to endurance ride is the day I stop coming :)
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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id rma009852; Mon Jan 26 21:51:38 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: stirrups ...things I've learned.
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
In a previous post, I mentioned that Trail Blazer's article (Jan/Feb98)
THE DYNAMICS OF SADDLE DESIGN & FIT, the author states "....the
mechanics of english trees require that the stirrups must be hung from
the front of the bars, as this is the strongest point of the tree.
This rules out centered seats when building saddles on English trees."
I didn't say I agreed with the TB article about stirrups on english
trees being too far forward. It was only a new perspective to me. I
am forced to wonder if the author is reflecting some bias, since the
article is based on an interview with Steve Ray gonzales who makes and
sells SR Saddles. I'm trying out a dressage saddle at the moment (not
for distance, just to be able to ride), and I feel very balanced in it,
although the author also states that "dressage saddles come close..."
Since you are not just standing in the stirrups when posting, but
spreading the weight throughout the leg, and stirrup length should be a
factor as well, I don't see how the placement of the stirrup is so
dramatic that you cannot have a centered seat. I can see where the
shape of the seat could influence this, but if your feet are under you
aligned with your hip, aren't you pulling the stirrup back too?
Unless, of course, you use your stirrup to post and don't distribute
any weight in your legs.... ?????
I'm learning an english tree cannot be too wide in front or it
interfers with posting. (this I read). All brands of saddles use their
own measuring system for small, medium, very medium, wide etc...there
is no standardization between manufacturer's. Sort of like having to
try on jeans before buying to see if they really fit. I'm learning
about gullets and restuffing, "A" framed trees and "Oval" trees and how
important the contact on the horse's back along the tree is. If only
part of the horse is touching the saddle because the gullets are too
round, then too much pressure will be applied on the horse's back.
Thanks again for the wonderful information sent out regarding saddle
usage, types, etc. I'm still looking at Stubben VSD or Survivals. I
like the quality of the leather and so far the way the total saddle
fits Mystery. Anyone know of used Stubbens, preferable 32cm and 17 to
18" seat size please forward them on to me.
BTW, since Mystery got a chiropractic adjustment, (and he was very much
out of alignment, probably from an injury he had in his pass), he is
100% better. Feeling fit and fine, loving this dressage saddle, but
acting like a wild beast again since he is living on all this fine
pasture. He is moving freely, has improved response to leg and seat,
and is trotting out strong...it is very gradifying to realize he is no
longer in any pain or discomfort. This list has really been invaluable
for the collective advise and perspectives of all, and for allowing me
to meet some very, very good friends and riding partners...
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab)
Pt.Reyes, CA
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:15:13 -0800
From: susan <smw@sos.net>
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Subject: thanks to all
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Ridecampers,
Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply to my question
regarding ponying babies. I got lots of solid advice and encouragement
and look forward to someday meeting a few of you 'on the trail!'
Susan
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Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:31:20 -0800
From: paddi <seamstob@telusplanet.net>
Reply-To: seamstob@telusplanet.net
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Subject: dog dew claws
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This is not endurance related but I vet wrap my dogs dew claws to
prevent them from hooking up and tearing when in the bush.
You won't find my dogs at a ride . My shepherd is the worst horse dog in
the world.
Paddi
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:35:23, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Equa-blu
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I hope everyone is home safe and sound from the convention!
For those of you who asked about mailing equa-blu, I have some packets
left. Just send me a check and I'll get it right out.
For those who missed what it is, it is two powders when mixed together make
1/2 gallon of this incredible solution to take heat and infection out. It
is called a "sub-acetate" solution, which means it's a little stronger than
vinegar. It works absolute wonders on cuts, esp overreaches, just soak and
wrap. It also works great after rides, esp multidays. Soak cotton wraps
in the solution and wrap with track bandages. If the bandages are warm the
next day, do them another day. If they are cool, you are "fine".
It took me TWO YEARS to find the makers of this product, and it is
absolutely wonderful (besides it's cheap :> )
From the interest I have had, I've been talked into becoming a distributor
for it. They also have a product called "Tendon Tight" that I am trying
on a 4 month old bow. I will test results before selling this and let you know.
Send check to:
Louise Burton
Rt. 4 Box 48
Okmulgee OK 74447
1pkt=$6.50
2pkt=$12.00
3pkt=$17.50
4pkt=$23.00
5pkt=$28.00
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Message-ID: <34CD65C9.E6FA81B2@peop.tds.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:42:49 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: how true how true
References: <3.0.1.32.19980126214223.006ff510@mail.micoks.net>
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This is really cute.
Dee
Chris Paus wrote:
>
> >JUST INSERT "ARABIAN"
> >>
> >> HORSE HUSBANDS LAMENT!
> >>
> >> My wife she has a quarter horse, with flaxen mane and tail
> >> She thinks he is the finest thing that ever jogged a rail
> >> She calls him Dandy Darling, and if the truth I tell,
> >> That fancy pampered quarter horse has made my life pure HELL.
> >> My wife she used to cook for ME and serve it with champagne
> >> Now she'd rather feed that horse and fix his special grain.
> >> She rides him every morning, and grooms him half the night,
> >> The last time that she kissed ME it was just to be polite.
> >> He dresses better than I do, with matching wraps and ties,
> >> My wardrobe's so neglected now that I attract the flies.
> >> One day my wife was shopping, she was down at the mall,
> >> And fancy pampered DANDY was just standing in his stall.
> >> He looked so smug and sassy, that I began to grin,
> >> I'd saddle that fat sucker, and take him for a spin.
> >> I've wondered since if cues I gave, he might have misconstrued,
> >> For when I climbed aboard that horse, he rightly came UNGLUED.
> >> He bucked and spun, and snorted fire, and threw me through a fence.
> >> I saw big stars and there are 6 teeth that I ain't heard from since.
> >> My wife came home and saw me, just a lying in the dirt,
> >> She rushed up to her HORSE and asked him, "Sweetheart are you HURT?"
> >> He'd scratched his nose a little bit, and the memory galls me yet,
> >> She left me lying in the mud, and ran to call the VET!!!
> >>
> >> Author Unknown
> >>
> >>
> >>
>> She thinks he is the finest thing that ever jogged a rail
> >> Sh6455 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000007653 06463265607 0013136 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA14157 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:07:13 -0800 (PST)
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id rma018104; Mon Jan 26 23:04:21 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: How about 35's?
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>Angie wrote:
I hear a lot of 25's say they think they shouldn't be left out of
awards...just because they don't have time to train as much... I
wonder how they would like to be one of us "also rans" who complete 50s
year after year, just out of the awards. We could drop down and clean
up, but don't want to. We don't ride for awards. I see nothing wrong
with doing 25's forever if that's your thing. But I also see no glory
whatsoever in bragging that you win them.
Now I'm in trouble
Angie and Kaboot
****************************************
**** Not with me Angie, you are only saying what you meant to say.
****I’ve done a lot of thinking this pass winter on where to bring
Mystery to next. We’ve done two summers of easy 25-30 mile rides,
endurance and training rides. The first year I realized I needed to
give him more base conditioning and I needed to learn to control an
excited horse. This year we had some successful 25’s but ended it with
a sore back for him from my old argentina saddle.
****Last fall I decided I’d like to do more 25’s, but be competitive
at them. Top 10 a few and then move up. But I also was appalled on
how a competitive 25er acted when she “lead” the group of us, about 10
riders, who were stuck on a beautiful single track trail in the High
Sierras. She trotted very fast over switchbacks that had dry, light
powder brown dirt hiding the sharp granite stones.
****I ended up getting away from this group, but also notice everyone
else kind of let their horses take up that pace and follow her right
along. Later on, I talked to her awhile and found she was very good
and competitive at 25s, and had no desire to jump up to 50’s..they were
just more than what she wanted to do for whatever reasons.
****So I thought, should I too become competitive in 25’s, and build up
speed, before I jump to a 50? But no, 25’s should be training rides,
and the 50’s should be started out nice and slow and learn some serious
pace. So, I’ll do another 25 at least to make sure Mystery is in 100%
top condition and then head for a slow 50.
****BUT, wouldn’t it be nice to have something around 35 to go that
extra 10 miles and see how we all do, maybe even be competitive? The
Gold Country 30 was 30 miles although the recycled shirts say 25, and
that distance was just right for me. Not saying I’m wimping out by not
going from 25 to 50, but many of the 50 milers I met also tell me it is
a big jump from 25 to 50,so why not? Let some of the more experienced
or competitive 25ers go further. Hey, like Ride Managers don’t feed
off chaos or something!
***This is just a thought to play around with. Dont send me 2 pages
plus telling me how horrible an idea it is! It is only a "what if..."
<g>
***BTW, gotta tell ya, if I ever did win a 25 and my HORSE was in 100%
condition, I’d be damn proud. But I wouldn’t be if I were running him
down hills with hidden rocks or if he was sore and miserable.
Kimberly (playing on the net again ..its either rid’in, work or
raining!)
& Mystery (ha! I’m not stupid enough to run on rough ground..in fact,
I’ll walk if you like!)
& Provo the Proud (I’m dirtier than you are...ha, ha, ha, haaaa, ha!)
Black Mountain Ranch, Pt.Reyes, CA ......where the whales jump & the
birds dive
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Received: (from zyy@juno.com)
by m27.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FFJ24905; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:35:01 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:28:20 -0800
Subject: horses for sale - moving
Message-ID: <19980127.022922.2838.2.Zyy@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 3-4,13-14,24-25,30-31,35
From: zyy@juno.com (Sheree D Nikstaitis)
I have several horses for sale that I would *never* think of selling, but
I am forced to move due to a family situation and I can only take one
horse with me. So here's the list. All prices are OBO. Vet checks welcome
and soundness assured.
9 year old grey(white) 14.2hh registered Arab mare - has won several
class A halter champions, has perfect legs, and is gorgeous to boot. She
is an easy keeper, not an alpha mare but not totally submissive, either.
She is well broke but could use a tune-up as she has been in foal this
past year (but still ridden on occasion). She is sweet, very kind,
gentle, and intelligent. She has been ridden mostly on trails, has
gathered cattle, and been ridden on busy roads in the past. Has wonderful
endurance and doesn't need buckets of supplements even when working
hard............$2,500
3 year old dark red chestnut filly 14hh registered Arab green broke under
saddle, has been ridden lightly but in a variety of settings including
arena, round pen, flat trails, and mountainous terrain. She is
exceptionally exotic looking, with a ultra refined head and thick, long
mane, forelock, and tail. Her sire is an international champion and a
sire of international champions, and her dam is by Reign On, a champion
Park Horse and *Bask son. She has a very western gait, however, even
though with her breeding it ought not to have been. She has boundless
energy and needs someone knowledgeable in dealing with that. I am very
attached to this filly so a good home is a must! ...............$2,500
Unborn foal (due any day) will be a definate endurance prospect, and
pretty to boot. Sire is Belesemo Reflkshn, dam is a double *Bask /
*Karadjordje mare who at twelve has the spunk of a two year old, and much
more endurance than I do! Around the farm it is said this foal will be
born with an endurance number on its butt........$1500
If you are interested in any of these horses I am in Northern California
(Redding-area) and please feel free to page me at (530)232-4458 and I
will return your call ASAP. You can also e-mail me at this address or
zyya@c-zone.net
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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by m1.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GOA16992; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:51:30 EST
To: rides2far@juno.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 07:54:02 EST
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Message-ID: <19980127.075402.4470.1.benamil@juno.com>
References: <766ec9f1.34ccf18d@aol.com>
<19980127.082611.6726.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-2,14-15,20-28,30-92
From: benamil@juno.com (David Bennett)
Along this line, a year or so ago I suggested that many who think they
cannot do a 50 are really quite capable if they just knew it...
This fall I started a new horse and did a couple of 25's, riding them at
a pace that I would have gone in a slow 50, finishing near the back but
not last place. I got comments from the vets about how they "have never
seen you ride so slow". My horse had plenty of 'go' left afterwards and
erring on the safe side is best. Yet, it was the pace that I used on
slow 50's while starting my last horse. After I have done some thinking
about it I reached the conclusion that I would have done just as well to
start a 50 at those rides and quit if I felt my horse needed to stop.
This is because I viewed those rides as training experiences for him,
getting him out in the crowd, camping with horses and commotion around,
and so on. Had the entry fee been the same I am sure I would have just
entered the 50...
I think that one just needs to decide what the goal is and work for it.
If a person's goal is to do Limited Distance, there is absolutely nothing
wrong with it. If the choice is only to do 50's that is fine, too.
Those who do distance riding are more alike, regardless of distance done,
than we are like other horse people...
Dave Bennett
Ben Amil - "I don't MIND if I *ONLY* do 50's!"
Rocketeer - "Whaddaya mean, Get ready for the long haul???"
Chickamauga, Georgia
email: benamil@juno.com
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:27:15 EST rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
writes:
>I truly believe "To Finish is to Win" at any distance. But I also
>believe that any horse that wins a 25 could have done a nice solid
>completion with less effort on a 50. If they're 4 and couldn't enter
>the 50, they shouldn't have gone fast enough to win the 25. I guess
>that's why I just can't see being...oh, top 5. There are some people
>in the back of top 10 in the 25 around here who ride a very nice race
>on well conditioned horses...come to think of it, they probably could
>finish a 50 too. By the way, when I top tenned in the 50's several
>times this year, several people asked, "Isn't it about time you did a
>100?" So I did, and they were right, we were ready and I enjoyed it.
>
>Angie McGhee and Kaboot (who seemed to enjoy it too)
>
>
>On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:26:50 EST SandyDSA@aol.com writes:
>>In a message dated 98-01-26 13:34:08 EST, you write:
>>
>><< I hear a lot of 25's say they think they shouldn't be left out of
>> awards...just because they don't have time to train as much... I
>>wonder
>> how they would like to be one of us "also rans" who complete 50s
>year
>> after year, just out of the awards. We could drop down and clean
>up,
>>but
>> don't want to. We don't ride for awards. I see nothing wrong with
>>doing
>> 25's forever if that's your thing. But I also see no glory
>>whatsoever in
>> bragging that you win them.
>> >>
>>Like anything else competitive, recognition for accomplishment is
>>alway
>>desired and appreciated. Being an "also ran" in endurance tends to
>run
>>in
>>cotrast to the motto. Dropping down and "cleaning up" as is routinely
>
>>done in
>>the shows is abhorrent and in decidedly bad form. I suppose the 100
>>milers
>>could say the same about the 50 milers, even those 50 milers who WIn.
>
>>Bragging
>>is not the same as taking great satisfaction in having completed
>>something
>>that few attempt and even fewer complete. The GLORY IS in the
>>completion, and
>>for us, in the doing. Acknowledgement for haing done the job is
>>appropriate
>>for ANY level, and not to be misunderstood - most don't boast but
>>enjoy the
>>victory. Some enjoy the boaasting as well (ick!) and so many more are
>
>>so very
>>pleased and rpoud to have done it at all. SO SO SO .
>>sandy
>>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get
>completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno
>at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
_____________________________________________________________________
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7b138d2e.34cde0de@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:27:56 EST
To: twhowe@inetworld.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
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In a message dated 98-01-26 09:25:42 EST, you write:
> When you think about it, for $55, you and your family can camp for the
> weekend, your horse is examined by a veterinarian 3 times, you get a
> completion award and dinner, and you get to spend time with good
> friends. It sounds like a great deal to me!
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT !
:-)
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <90935532.34cde4cb@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:44:42 EST
To: VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Thompson's Water Seal?
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Paula~
I remember the posts. I wasn't brave enough to use a water sealer for wood on
my blankets. I have two canvas turnout blankets that weren't doing a good job
of keeping the water out. I bought some water proofer/repeller that was made
for tents, rain jackets, etc. There were several types to choose from at
Sports Authority. I bought the most expensive type (can't remember the name)
and paid about 6-8 dollars per can. Best money I ever spent. Next ride it
rained most of the weekend :-( But my horses were dry under the blankets
:-)
The product was in an aerosol can and easy to apply. I did tie a bandana
around my nose and mouth (bandit style) to keep from water proofing my lungs
along with the blankets.
~Nora
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:46:07 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: is this fair?
>>
>> In fact--since all the peripheral costs are the same--HOW COME WE HAVE TO
>> PAY MORE FOR 50'S AND 75'S???
>
This is not quite the case - depending on the trail. If you are running a
50 mile loop with vet checks out - my favorite trail to ride - then you
will require more vets for the 50. For a 100 you will most likely require
more vets and have to rent lights for the night checks.
If the ride was run around a mile track then all cost would be the same -
but it would be very boring ride.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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Posted-Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 06:49:52 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:02:30 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: jbumgard@ridgecrest.ca.us (Jackie Bumgardner)
Subject: Horses for Sale
Two ready to go horses for sale in Southern California:
Serya Robask-13 yrs. 1000 miles, 15,3, bay would carry MWT or HWT
Completed 5 day June XP, Tevis (25th) VC 100 (12th) and just finished
12th of 73 at the Fire Mt. 50. This a strong Top 10 horse. Needs a
new home for this season. ($3500)
Mr. Maajistic- 6 yrs. in April, 14'3, dark grey, great legs and feet, eats
and drinks like the champ he will be, wonderful dispositon, 350 easy miles.
Completed 4 day Death Valley Encounter. Definite Top Ten potential. ($3500)
Call 760-375-8915 FAX 760-371-3097. Both of these horses will be at the 20
Mule Team Ride.
Jim and Jackie Bumgardner
Fire Mountain Arabians -Home of Sierra Fadwah+/(Fadjur x Judhi)and Mackies
Image (Abu Malacar x Bayetta) Race Training and Endurance and Race Bred
horses for sale
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:05:21 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: stirrups ...things I've learned.
>I don't see how the placement of the stirrup is so
>dramatic that you cannot have a centered seat. I can see where the
>shape of the seat could influence this, but if your feet are under you
>aligned with your hip, aren't you pulling the stirrup back too?
>Unless, of course, you use your stirrup to post and don't distribute
>any weight in your legs.... ?????
>
I have found that even subtile difference in sturrup placement can make a
big difference. My wife has a an OF Patriot Officers Model. I ride on an
updated (new shorter panels) Express model. The stirrups placement on the
Patriot is slightly ahead of that on the Express. With the Patriot I fell
more comfortable and more in tune with the horse than on the other horse I
ride. On him I feel much better in the express. They have slightly
different ways of going. Before Misty got too big to fit any saddle I
liked the stirrups just slightly forward on her.
I don't think there is "one best" position for every rider/horse
combination. I think it depends on both the rider and the horse.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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From: "Beth Glace" <lb@nismat.org>
Organization: NISMAT
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:13:36 +0000
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Subject: stepchildren and also rans?!
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> >Angie wrote:
I see nothing wrong > with doing 25's forever if that's your thing.
But I also see no glory
> whatsoever in bragging that you win them.
OK, I know I'm new to this sport, and perhaps I have too little
experience to comment on this, but this kind of thinking stuns me.
So, I'll risk provoking people and say that perhaps those that win at
100's might not win at 25 if they were competing against horses who
trained specifically to excel at that distance. You might find that
some horses are genetically predisposed to have those traits
that would allow them to train seriously, race seriously and be
taken seriously at that distance. Maybe the Anglo/Arab crosses we've
been discussing?
I've said this before but I'll say it again, I think it's narrow
minded to think that an animal who competes well over a 6 hour
period, or 12 hour period or whatever, is a better athlete than one
who races well over a 2 or 3 hour period. All of the above distances
would qualify the horse as an endurance horse. All predominantly
slow twitch muscle fiber recruitment. Again, this is exactly the
attitude people took just after the running boom in the 80's when you
weren't a real runner till you ran marathons. Well, a lot of them
were, excuse me, just plain old slow. Looking at their marathon times
you'd have to say "gosh, I don't know what they were doing out there
but it wasn't running!" I tested 120-125 runners last year alone in
our physiology lab and I can tell you that many of those "ultra"
endurance type athletes are not very fit, although they may be very
patient. When the stepchildren of the running world who did shorter
races challenged these "real" runners at any distance, all that speed
work paid off. Just about every person who runs at a world class
level in the marathon, earlier ran and specialized in shorter
distance races. When they got older, and their speed began to
dwindle, they moved up to the longer races. Because longer races are
more legitimate? NO! Because for the most part they were no longer
competitive in the shorter event, and they had years of base
training to work off. I think there are some parallels that can be
drawn between these sports.
I am by no means belittling the training, preparation, experience and
common sense that most endurance riders bring to each race. But,
please, if the LD's are illegitimate it's not due intrinsically to the
distance, its due - in part- to self congratulatory attitudes by
some individuals involved in the sport.
She trotted very fast over switchbacks that had dry,
light
> powder brown dirt hiding the sharp granite stones.
>
This person sounds like she has a very fit horse that she took too
many risks with. Pehaps she has an ego problem.
> ****I ended up getting away from this group, but also notice
> everyone else kind of let their horses take up that pace and follow
> her right along.
Clearly many people start with the 25s because you can complete them
on lower training mileages. This can also mean that you have rookie
riders that are trying to follow the example set by other riders, and
who may get sucked into a dangerous situation if they follow the
wrong person. We are each responsible first to get our horse safely
through the course, and it is no excuse that someone else was going
too fast....
> ***BTW, gotta tell ya, if I ever did win a 25 and my HORSE was in
> 100% condition, I=C6d be damn proud. But I wouldn=C6t be if I were
> running him down hills with hidden rocks or if he was sore and
> miserable.
And you'd have a right to be proud! I hope we see people who learn
to specialize in the shorter distances and who race these distances in
a safe and sane manner. Hey Tom Ivers any thoughts on this?
Will I be blasted now? Ikes, preparing my forifications and
thickening my skin...
Beth and Klass Act ["but Mom, going fast is so much fun"]
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Message-Id: <199801271533.HAA08024@fsr.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 98 07:31:12 PST
From: "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: pony saddle needed
REPLY TO 01/27/98 03:34 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: pony saddle needed
[71903] TUE 01/27/98 03:34 FROM ridecamp@endurance.net: pony saddle needed;
35 LINES
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:01:08 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: pony saddle needed
My 2 1/2 year old grandson finally wanted to ride his pony this weekend.
Until recently, he's been terrified of horses, but with gentle reassurance,
he has grown to really like them, and now goes to the refrigerator for
carrots to take to the horses as soon as he gets to grandma's house.
I desperately need a saddle for a shetland pony. Anyone have one to sell?
English or western, it doesn't matter. I've been using my 17" hunt seat
saddle on the pony and it is way too big. Her back is only 18" from teh
withers to the hips!
I'm hoping I have a trail riding buddy in the making.
---------
I have a darling little Australian Stock saddle I am not using
anymore. It is a 12" deep seat, with poleys, so it is VERY secure.
There is a cover I used on top of it, with foam over the seat.
I felt very safe with both my kids riding in. It also has small
covered stirrups, saddle blanket with pockets and a cinch.
The front of the tree has been taken apart by a saddle maker and
completely reinforced and made stronger. There is also a small
horn.
There is an overgirth for the cinch that may been to be replaced,
but is still workable.
contact me for more information
Karen
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: 25 mile ride personal survey.
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:49:33 -0500
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I would like to see the ridecamp opinion on 25 mile rides.
Should 25 mile rides be sanctioned and treated exactly like the 50 miles
or not.
Points to consider or comment on:
1. AERC currently defines the 25 mile ride as a "novice" event. Quote
from the website "These rides are not considered endurance rides by AERC
but are referred to as Limited Distance rides."
2. Approx. 60% of the 25 mile entries are non-AERC members.
3. AERC is trying to promote the health and welfare of the horse in long
distance competition.
4. 25 mile rides generate quite a bit of revenue.
5. I have heard the argument that most 50 milers run faster on average
than the 25 miler.
Is this correct? has anyone evaluated all the factors including
hold times, pulse criteria etc.? Or have they just compared winning
times?
6. It would be nice to know the statistics such as number of horses
entered, top tened, best condition, etc. and seen year after year and
mile after mile, or never seen again for whatever reason.
Thanks,
Suzanne
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
From: "Linnea Skoglund" <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:51:54 +0000
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Ridecampers,
I would like to try to persuade all of you to restrict your copying
of previous messages when writing a reply. Judicious use of clips is
useful. Copying entire messages (sometimes for the 3rd time - note
number of <<<<) in annoying. Most of us are steady readers and have
seen the previous postings. I know for me on digest that reducing
repetions will make the day go much better.
Thanks. Linnea
P.S. Maybe this is a software problem for some of you. In that
case, I understand.
****************************************************
Linnea G. Skoglund, Ph.D.
Dept. Bioagricultural Sciences and Pest Management
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
970.491.6950
970.491.3862 (fax)
skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu
****************************************************
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:46:47 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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To: "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: The Limited Distance Dilemma
References: <766ec9f1.34ccf18d@aol.com> <19980127.082611.6726.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
> I truly believe "To Finish is to Win" at any distance. But I also
> believe that any horse that wins a 25 could have done a nice solid
> completion with less effort on a 50. If they're 4 and couldn't enter the
> 50, they shouldn't have gone fast enough to win the 25. I guess that's
> why I just can't see being...oh, top 5. There are some people in the
> back of top 10 in the 25 around here who ride a very nice race on well
> conditioned horses...come to think of it, they probably could finish a 50
> too. By the way, when I top tenned in the 50's several times this year,
> several people asked, "Isn't it about time you did a 100?" So I did, and
> they were right, we were ready and I enjoyed it.
>
> Angie McGhee and Kaboot (who seemed to enjoy it too)
>
Angie,
I agree with you that to finish is to win at any distance. And it
appears that your feelings are that if the horse is ready to do longer
distances then he should move up to those longer distances. The issue
is that, although the horse may be capable of doing longer distances,
the rider may not be able to or willing to ride the longer distances,
but still wants recognition.
In our rides in San Diego I see many horses time and time again who for
years only do the short course and although the horse would be capable,
the rider does not enjoy the longer distances. There are more and more
career 25 mile riders. The complaint has been by many limited distance
riders that because they only do the shorter distances and because there
are no placings, only completions, that there are no awards for top ten
or best condition. Many of the limited distance riders have been
questioning the benefits of being members of AERC because they receive
no recognition for their accomplishments.
Sue Grahl, who is chairman of the limited distance committee, is
looking at all these issues now for discussion at the mid-year board
meeting in July. She is conducting a survey covering most of these
issues. If anyone has not completed one of these surveys, contact her
and ask that she send you one. Her address is 24811 Buckskin Drive,
Laguna Hills, CA 92653. 714/831-6869.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
mpletion with less effort on a 50. If they're 4 and couldn't enter the
> 50, they shouldn't have gone fast enough to win the 25. I guess that's
> why I just can't see being...oh, top 5. There are some people in the
> back of top 10 in the 25 around here who ride a very nice race on well
> conditioned horses...come to think of it, they probably could finish a 50
> too. By the way, when I top tenned in the 50's several times this year,
> several people asked, "Isn't it about time you di6468 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005751 06463406374 0013135 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from sentry.netsrq.com (root@sentry.netsrq.com [198.252.56.10]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA11874 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:36:07 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:44:27 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: stepchildren and also rans?!
I hate to get into this fray, but what the hell. When I first started
doing endurance it was 25's. I actually did too many 25's before doing a
50 but that is another story. At that time there was NO placing for 25.
It was completition only. SERA then addressed the issue. There are
probably more limited distance rides in the southeast than any other region
and there was a need to address the issue. SERA developed the 60 pulse
finish for the LD's for the protection of the horse. Most any relativetly
fit horse can run 25 miles - mostly on adrenaline. But for the most part a
1 hour 40 minute 25 is not the smartest thing for a four year old horse.
My experience is that speed and metabolic breakdown go hand in hand -
especially in hot/humid conditions. At my ride last year I had two very
serious treatment cases in the 25 and none in the 50 or 100. One horse had
to be stabalized before it could be transported to the UFL vet school.
When it finally peed it looked like expresso. It almost died. The other
hosrse kept the treatment vet - and the ride manager also - up all night.
It was peeing coffee until about 3 am. Both horse crashed at 13 miles at
the vet check, and both horses did the first 13 miles in about 45 minutes.
I don't know but I suspect that both these horses have permanent damage.
The LD's tend to go faster on younger, less experienced horses - so I have
concerns in making it a full out 25 mile "balls to the wall" horse race.
At SERA rides there is placing based on time - finish being a 60 pulse. The
SERA board voted at the last SERA convention to standardize BC scoring for
LD's. Until now there was a hodge podge of BC scoring for LD's that ranged
from no BC to best vet score to the same as for an endurance ride. Now all
SERA rides will used the same critera for BC on an LD ride as used for an
endurance ride - time, weight and vet score.
The LD is a different ride than the 50 and the 50 is a different ride than
the 100. The AERC will have to deal with this issue. My only concern
would be the safety of the horses involved. I have seen too many crashes
at shorter distances to be comfortable supporting 25 mile horse races.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:57:24 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: 25 mile ride personal survey.
>I would like to see the ridecamp opinion on 25 mile rides.
>
>Should 25 mile rides be sanctioned and treated exactly like the 50 miles
>or not.
>
No
>
>Points to consider or comment on:
>
>1. AERC currently defines the 25 mile ride as a "novice" event. Quote
>from the website "These rides are not considered endurance rides by AERC
>but are referred to as Limited Distance rides."
>
>
>2. Approx. 60% of the 25 mile entries are non-AERC members.
>
Those folks should be very greatful for us paying AERC members giving them
a place to ride their horses.
I believe we should charge a non-member fee the same as we do for the other
rides.
>3. AERC is trying to promote the health and welfare of the horse in long
>distance competition.
>
Speed - before the horse is ready for speed - kills and speed on a 4 or 5
year old horse is the problem with may LD rides.
>4. 25 mile rides generate quite a bit of revenue.
>
Yes and no. You need extra vets. You need extra camping. You have to plan
your trail and first vet check to deal with the large impulse of riders.
All this cost some money. I am not sure how much, but the LD's are not a
free gravy train for ride managers.
>5. I have heard the argument that most 50 milers run faster on average
>than the 25 miler.
> Is this correct? has anyone evaluated all the factors including
>hold times, pulse criteria etc.? Or have they just compared winning
>times?
>
Yea, a 10 year old experienced horses with 1000 or so miles may do the a 50
at a faster pace than a 4 year old horse with 3 25 mile rides - but they
should. I have seen a lot of sub 2 hour 25's - a lot more of them than sub
four hour 50's.
Also in the southeast the finish for a 25 is a 60 pulse. Hence when this
time to get to 60 is substracted from the listed ride time for a 25, I
doubt if the above is really true.
>6. It would be nice to know the statistics such as number of horses
>entered, top tened, best condition, etc. and seen year after year and
>mile after mile, or never seen again for whatever reason.
>
>Thanks,
>Suzanne
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:09:10 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: stepchildren and also rans?!
References: <199801271513.KAA09517@voon.nismat.org>
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Beth Glace wrote:
> I've said this before but I'll say it again, I think it's narrow
> minded to think that an animal who competes well over a 6 hour
> period, or 12 hour period or whatever, is a better athlete than one
> who races well over a 2 or 3 hour period.
Beth,
The concern has always been with the limited distance rides is that
they would turn into 2 or 3 hour races which is why the finishing
criteria has been changed to REQUIRE that completion times are when the
horse reaches criteria at the finish, rather than when the horse crosses
the finish line. Even if new placings and best condition awards were
included in the program, I don't think the finishing criteria would
change for the limited distance. While some riders do bring horses to
the 25 mile rides who are fit to race, but many are not, so safeguards
for the horse will need to stay in place. All too often the limited
distance rides are full of "weekend warriors" who frequently confuse a
horse that likes to run, with one that is fit to run.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
before but I'll say it again, I think it's narrow
> minded to think that an animal who competes well over a 6 hour
> period, or 12 hour period or whatever, is a better a6471 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005071 06463410423 0013110 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from minot.ndak.net (minot.ndak.net [206.30.27.131]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA13959 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:53:17 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34CE103E.D760C240@lansford.ndak.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:50:12 -0600
From: Lynette Helgeson <helgeson@lansford.ndak.net>
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To: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
CC: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: how true how true
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Sounds to me that this guy needs to get a life
lololo :-)
Lynette
Chris Paus wrote:
> >JUST INSERT "ARABIAN"
> >>
> >> HORSE HUSBANDS LAMENT!
> >>
> >> My wife she has a quarter horse, with flaxen mane and tail
> >> She thinks he is the finest thing that ever jogged a rail
> >> She calls him Dandy Darling, and if the truth I tell,
> >> That fancy pampered quarter horse has made my life pure HELL.
> >> My wife she used to cook for ME and serve it with champagne
> >> Now she'd rather feed that horse and fix his special grain.
> >> She rides him every morning, and grooms him half the night,
> >> The last time that she kissed ME it was just to be polite.
> >> He dresses better than I do, with matching wraps and ties,
> >> My wardrobe's so neglected now that I attract the flies.
> >> One day my wife was shopping, she was down at the mall,
> >> And fancy pampered DANDY was just standing in his stall.
> >> He looked so smug and sassy, that I began to grin,
> >> I'd saddle that fat sucker, and take him for a spin.
> >> I've wondered since if cues I gave, he might have misconstrued,
> >> For when I climbed aboard that horse, he rightly came UNGLUED.
> >> He bucked and spun, and snorted fire, and threw me through a fence.
> >> I saw big stars and there are 6 teeth that I ain't heard from since.
> >> My wife came home and saw me, just a lying in the dirt,
> >> She rushed up to her HORSE and asked him, "Sweetheart are you HURT?"
> >> He'd scratched his nose a little bit, and the memory galls me yet,
> >> She left me lying in the mud, and ran to call the VET!!!
> >>
> >> Author Unknown
> >>
> >>
> >>
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Message-ID: <34CE1174.5F7A858A@lansford.ndak.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:55:20 -0600
From: Lynette Helgeson <helgeson@lansford.ndak.net>
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To: epona1@mindspring.com
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: I'm New
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Welcome Arden! I am always looking for someone to
ride with too, but I think it would be a little far since
I live in ND.
Lynette (having some beautiful weather, highs in the 40's
not bad for January!)
Arden Ward wrote:
> Hi,
> I hope that I am sending this message correctly. I have been reading
> the mailing for about two weeks now and I really enjoy all of your ideas
> and comments. How nice for those of us with common interest to be able
> to come together this way.
>
> My name is Arden. I have been riding Spotted Saddle Horses for years
> now. Mostly trail rides. Showing in the ring some, but I have gotten
> quite bored with that. I am looking to get into competitive trail
> rides. The SSHBEA (spotted horse assoc.) is getting more and more
> involved with sporting events. My 2 1/2 year old is with a trainer
> right now. Boy is that like sending your son away to summer camp! He
> seems to be doing well, although when I went to check on him this
> weekend that trainer said that when he is getting stressed or frustrated
> he is wanting to rare up! I'm putting my trust in the trainer. I had
> another gelding that I sold who was fond of throwing a fit on the trail
> when he didn't want to go somewhere and rare up. Can be quite dangerous
> in some instances! Anyway I'm really hoping Junior has the right mind
> for it! I live in Murfreesboro TN. Anybody near me? I'm always
> looking for someone to ride on weekends with.
>
> Arden Ward
> epona1@mindspring.com
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:24:48 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
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To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: New 50 Mile Championship Series
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For your information, at the Board of Directors meeting in Lexington
this last week, the board approved a new championship series for the 50
mile rides starting with next years ride season. Rides will be selected
from each region as the championship ride. Where possible, these will
be at the same ride where a championship 100 is being held, but where
that is not possible, then a different 50 mile ride will be selected as
the designated 50 mile championship ride for that region.
All the particulars have not been worked out yet, but it will probably
be that participants can enter any or all of the championship rides and
the top three scores would be used. Since there are 9 regions, it would
be possible for someone to win the 100 mile championship series, as well
as the 50 mile championship series. This could be very interesting.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Tack Question
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:33:18 +0200
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We were brought a vosal by Pam Burton when she came over to ride our trails
in the game park. ( See the pictures on our web page). I'm using it on my
young Stallion and he is going very well in it. This is the only vosal ive
seen here in S Africa and at our rides every one is keen to see how it
works. I'm not sure wether it is fitting correctly. The "nose band" seems
to be too high up, unlike a hackamore which fits lower down. It is also
chaffing him under, near the chin grove which is obusly not correct. Any
help from some body who uses a vosal ??.
Rob Dobrowsky.
http://196.7.177.40/aht/-
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: "Kristen L Olko" <krisolko@juno.com>
Cc: <BikoNMe@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:13:15 +0200
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Kris,
That was sent tongue in cheek.Not many TB's do endurance over here in S
Africa. There is one that i know of that has done fairly well, and im told
that it was never raced. Wether that has anything to do with it im not sure
but people that ihave spoken to think that because it wasnt started too
young as most race horses are, it has turned into an endurance prospect.
Personally i have my doubts as to a TB's ability over the longer distances,
but im sure there are exceptions to every rule.There are plenty of Anglos
and Part breds doing very well at endurance here.
Happy riding and good luck,
Rob Dobrowsky.
----------
> From: Kristen L Olko <krisolko@juno.com>
> To: arikaras@iafrica.com
> Cc: BikoNMe@aol.com; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
> Date: 26 January 1998 12:49
>
>
>
> >NO
> >
> >----------
> >> From: Biko N Me <BikoNMe@aol.com>
> >> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> >> Subject: Thoroughbreds
> >> Date: 25 January 1998 05:17
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> Are Thoroughbreds good for Endurance?????
>
> -------------------------
>
> Why such an emphatic no? I race a TB. We top ten, win and have 100%
> completion in 400
> miles of competition ( I know this is no biggie - yet). She's 11 this
> year and I fully expect, with careful
> conditioning and wise choice of pacing, to enjoy racing her for many
> years to come. It takes a different
> way of dealing with, but hey. It'd be very boring if they were all the
> same !!
>
> Kris
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:58:45 -0800 (PST)
From: "Pamela M. Corley" <pcorley@hsc.usc.edu>
Reply-To: "Pamela M. Corley" <pcorley@hsc.usc.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Bits & Sucking Tongue Back
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What would you recommend for a horse who sucks his tongue back? He pulls
it back to where there is only 1/4-1/2" visible in front of the bit.
What causes this? What would you recommend to change this?
I get the impression that bitting is often a matter of personal preference
& experience of the trainer, as well as one of trial and error. I would
like to learn enough to be able to judge whether the approaches being
tried will be successful.
I found some books on bits/bitting that may help me:
Edwards, Elwyn Hartley "Bitting: In Theory & Practice"
Langdon, William G. "Bits and Bitting Manual"
Roberts, Tom "Horse Control and the Bit"
Is anyone familiar with these or other books?
Thanks for your assistance either on the listserv or offline.
Pamela Corley
pcorley@hsc.usc.edu
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From: "Eric & Gail Hought" <hought@humboldt1.com>
To: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>, <zebella@idt.net>
Subject: Re: Need Advice About Tack
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:15:06 -0800
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I couldn't get my foot in far enough to put my weight on the balls of my
feet. I felt like all the weight was on my toes, so pretty soon you feel
my calves starting to hurt too. I don't have a real large foot (I'm 5'4"),
so I couldn't really imagine what a tall person with a longer foot would
do. I also felt that the cages were totally unnecessary. I feel like a
stirrup that is too narrow is much harder to get out of.
----------
> From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
> Gail, what was it about the cages that you didn't like?
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>, "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
Subject: Re: 25 mile ride personal survey.
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:24:47 -0700
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Points to consider or comment on:
>
> 1. AERC currently defines the 25 mile ride as a "novice" event. Quote
> from the website "These rides are not considered endurance rides by AERC
> but are referred to as Limited Distance rides."
This is true and should continue to be AERC policy. The concept of
endurance riding is just that, "endurance", and not sprints.
> 2. Approx. 60% of the 25 mile entries are non-AERC members.
Here again very true. If one is not looking for national or regional
recognition or is not completely supportive of the National organization,
what is the advantage of membership?
> 3. AERC is trying to promote the health and welfare of the horse in long
> distance competition.
This again is very true and this is the reason for limited recognition for
the LD training rides. This is also the thought behind the pulse down final
criteria. The LD rides prepare the horse for the distance competition of 50
or more miles.
> 4. 25 mile rides generate quite a bit of revenue.
Once again true and very often the LD ride supports the 50 and 100 mile
rides. I know in our area the Endurance Ride would not exist with out the
LD participants. How ever the 8 to 10 mile "pleasure ride" held in
conjunction with our endurance rides also contribute greatly to our revenue
and support the 50 mile "habit".
5. I have heard the argument that most 50 milers run faster on average
> than the 25 miler.
> Is this correct? has anyone evaluated all the factors including
> hold times, pulse criteria etc.? Or have they just compared winning
> times?
I have seen this happen at times and I have also seen 100s faster than 50s
on a speed per mile basis but this is terrain/climate dependent.
> 6. It would be nice to know the statistics such as number of horses
> entered, top tened, best condition, etc. and seen year after year and
> mile after mile, or never seen again for whatever reason.
For "endurance" rides this data is readily available for LD the data base
is not as extensive.
It is, in my not so humble opinion, not the philosophy of endurance riding
to encompass the concept of shorter rides. The original idea was
"endurance", the use of a horse over what were usually considered "normal"
distances and over terrain not usually traveled. While the original
endurance "Trials" put on by the US Army were over roads and trails they
were out of the "normal" in the horse had to carry over 200 pounds, do 60
miles a day, go for five days and then be fit to continue on. And this with
no support crews , motor homes etc.(and you think you do endurance). This
is the concept of endurance to me not run like hell for 25 miles and call
myself a winner. Endurance riding is that, ENDURANCE AND PERSEVERANCE MILE
AFTER MILE DAY AFTER DAY AND YEAR AFTER YEAR.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
> From: Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT) <ssolis@lg.com>
> To: 'Endurance' <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: 25 mile ride personal survey.
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 8:49 AM
>
> I would like to see the ridecamp opinion on 25 mile rides.
>
> Should 25 mile rides be sanctioned and treated exactly like the 50 miles
> or not.
>
>> Thanks,
> Suzanne
>
>
>
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From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801271825.AA03254@cody.unavco>
To: cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Hobbles
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Lysane,
I think hobbles could be downright dangerous at a group horse event.
If I saw a hobbled horse at a ride I would absolutey set up my panels
so the hobbled horse couldn't get into my tied horse, but not
everybody has panels to set up. I have never seen anyone using hobbles
at a ride. If you are back country riding be forewarned that many horses
can learn to lunge quite fast in hobbles - I would never leave any horse
just hobbled overnight myself.
Teresa
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 25 mile ride personal survey.
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:35:56 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:49:33 -0500, "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)"
<ssolis@lg.com> wrote:
>I would like to see the ridecamp opinion on 25 mile rides.
>Should 25 mile rides be sanctioned and treated exactly like the 50 miles
>or not.
No way. They are not the same and should not be treated the same.
>Points to consider or comment on:
>1. AERC currently defines the 25 mile ride as a "novice" event. Quote
>from the website "These rides are not considered endurance rides by AERC
>but are referred to as Limited Distance rides."
These rides were traditionally called novice rides because they were
originally provided for beginneres to get started. The AERC
officially named them L.D. rides to accomodate the people who don't
intend to move up to 50's but who continue riding 25's indefinitely
(for whatever reason). They are not endurance rides because they are
too short to be a test of stamina or endurance for normal horses.
Yes, they can be a severe challenge for the horse or rider with a
handicap or physical limitation ... but the same could be said for a
ten mile ride, or a one mile ride, or a 100-yard ride!
>2. Approx. 60% of the 25 mile entries are non-AERC members.
Which is to be expected, and IMO a "good thing." The AERC's purpose
is endurance rides.
>3. AERC is trying to promote the health and welfare of the horse in long
>distance competition.
Yes, which is the primary reason the L.D. rides were brought under the
AERC umbrella -- too much damage was being done to too many horses in
25-mile "races."
>4. 25 mile rides generate quite a bit of revenue.
Some rides are dependent on that source of revenue; the AERC is not
and a majority of AERC rides are not.
>5. I have heard the argument that most 50 milers run faster on average
>than the 25 miler.
> Is this correct? has anyone evaluated all the factors including
>hold times, pulse criteria etc.? Or have they just compared winning
>times?
"Most?" Doubtful. "Some?" Yes, as the racing 50 mile horses usually
are older and have more conditioning than the typical 25 mile horse.
I have personally run the last 25 miles of a 75-mile ride -- over the
identical trail as the 25-mile ride -- faster than the fastest 25-mile
horse that day. But when I ride a new horse in a 25, I would
absolutely not run anywhere close to that speed.
Speed breaks down horses much more than distance, especially young
and/or unconditioned horses.
>6. It would be nice to know the statistics such as number of horses
>entered, top tened, best condition, etc. and seen year after year and
>mile after mile, or never seen again for whatever reason.
Yes.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: Chaco L <ChacoL@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4cd1cdea.34ce2a6a@aol.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:41:44 EST
To: jaxson@leopard.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Falling off of cliffs
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In a message dated 98-01-24 08:08:52 EST, jaxson@leopard.com writes:
> Erin McChesney (sp?) spoke at the MRER convention last Spring and she
> talked about your horse responding to your seat bones the way a floatable
> ball would if you were sitting on it in a swimming pool. If you lean to the
> left the ball would shoot out from under you to the right and if you leaned
> back the ball would shoot forward, and so forth. I don't remember her words
> exactly but I thought it was something to the affect that you "open your
> horse up" or "free your horse" to go the opposite direction of your weight.
>
My dressage instructor calls this "opening the door." Lengthening the leg and
applying pressure in the seat bone on the inside, while keeping the outside
leg off the horse "opens the door" to the outside.
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: The Limited Distance Dilemma
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:49:38 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d22a1a.68640810@mail.mti.net>
References: <766ec9f1.34ccf18d@aol.com> <19980127.082611.6726.1.Rides2far@juno.com> <34CE0F77.6E84@inetworld.net>
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On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 08:46:47 -0800, Terry Woolley Howe
<cancer@inetworld.net> wrote:
>The issue
>is that, although the horse may be capable of doing longer distances,
>the rider may not be able to or willing to ride the longer distances,
>but still wants recognition.
And here's where I have a real problem with that. If they want
"recognition" for having ridden a limited distance, OK. But if they
want "recognition" for having completed an ENDURANCE ride when they
were either unable or unwilling to do so, that is not OK.
If I go to a track event and enter the 2-mile "fun run" or even the
10K, I don't expect to get recognition for having run a Marathon. If
I had only one leg I still wouldn't demand recognition for having run
a Marathon when I only ran a 10K, just because I had a handicap.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:59:12 -0800
From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: Is this allowed?
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David Bennett wrote:
>
> ...I reached the conclusion that I would have done just as well to
> start a 50 at those rides and quit if I felt my horse needed to stop.
I wondered about doing this, if you *thought* your horse was
ready, but weren't sure (because you'd never actually *ridden*
50 miles on your horse).
Would this be frowned upon by ride management "taking up valuable
rescue trailer space" and using up people's time? Or is it acceptable?
--
**************************************************************
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
**************************************************************
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To: paus@micoks.net
Cc: cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: home fly spray
Message-ID: <19980128.022525.5478.11.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:27:10 EST
I would think the smell of Skin so Soft would repel ANYTHING! Who wants
their horse to smell like their third grade teacher?
Angie
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:52:38 -0600 Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net> writes:
>I think citronella is what makes Skin So Soft do its bug repelling
>job. A
>little boost from some more citronella won't hurt.
>
>chris paus & star
>
>At 04:29 PM 1/26/98 EST, Lysane Cree wrote:
>>Since Avon Skin So Soft already is useful at repelling bugs, i would
>>think that you could exclude the citronella from the recipe without
>>compromising its effectiveness, if you are concerned about using it.
>>Lysane and Buck
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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To: cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Hobbles
Message-ID: <19980128.022525.5478.9.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:27:09 EST
I used to teach my Apps to wear them. The horse learns to rear and hop
to another spot. I would say they could wander about 1/4 mi. by morning.
Angie McGhee
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:23:28 EST "Lysane Cree" <cree_l@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA>
writes:
>While on the subject of methods of tying up horses at rides (picket
>lines, etc.) does anyone ever use hobbles? I have never used them so
>i am just curious. Do they work? I seem to remember hearing that some
>horses are not "stopped" from wandering very far and can get used to
>them
>and teach themselves to walk away on you to whereever they may
>desire, even with hobbles on. That would not be a could thing I
>imagine if the horse hobbled off (maybe that is where that expression
>came from! :) and stirred up trouble somewhere else.
>Lysane and Buck
>
>
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To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: stirrups ...things I've learned.
Message-ID: <19980128.022525.5478.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:27:08 EST
I saw the SR saddle at the convention. The workmanship was beautiful.
Don't know about the specifics, the Zes saddle looked strange. In the
photos it looks like my Express, but it was actually sort of a tree with
a big leather slip cover, totally removable. There was an Italian made
saddle with a very funky set up, the seat was sort of suspended, like a
trapoline, the craftmanship was beautiful, but they didn't seem to know a
thing about trees, (This WILL fit all horses!) I really hate to see how
everybody turned on the Ortho-flex people. It's a shame to not see them
at the trade show. Looking at some of the craftmanship in the
"experimental" models made the Ortho Flex look awfully good, and I think
we should all be thankful to them for starting the "let's make a better
mousetrap" mentality popular. I think a lot of folks just thought they
got big for their britches, but looking at the prices on the Italian
saddle ($2200), they don't seem as out of line.
Back to the subjectr, Steve Ray seemed like a nice guy, and his saddle
looked like quality stuff.
Angie McGhee, who likes her Ortho-flex and always got great service from
the company.
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:54:07 -0600 (CST) PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY
PRICE) writes:
>In a previous post, I mentioned that Trail Blazer's article
>(Jan/Feb98)
>THE DYNAMICS OF SADDLE DESIGN & FIT, the author states "....the
>mechanics of english trees require that the stirrups must be hung from
>
>the front of the bars, as this is the strongest point of the tree.
>This rules out centered seats when building saddles on English trees."
>
>I didn't say I agreed with the TB article about stirrups on english
>trees being too far forward. It was only a new perspective to me. I
>am forced to wonder if the author is reflecting some bias, since the
>article is based on an interview with Steve Ray gonzales who makes and
>
>sells SR Saddles. I'm trying out a dressage saddle at the moment (not
>
>for distance, just to be able to ride), and I feel very balanced in
>it,
>although the author also states that "dressage saddles come close..."
>Since you are not just standing in the stirrups when posting, but
>spreading the weight throughout the leg, and stirrup length should be
>a
>factor as well, I don't see how the placement of the stirrup is so
>dramatic that you cannot have a centered seat. I can see where the
>shape of the seat could influence this, but if your feet are under you
>
>aligned with your hip, aren't you pulling the stirrup back too?
>Unless, of course, you use your stirrup to post and don't distribute
>any weight in your legs.... ?????
>
>I'm learning an english tree cannot be too wide in front or it
>interfers with posting. (this I read). All brands of saddles use
>their
>own measuring system for small, medium, very medium, wide etc...there
>is no standardization between manufacturer's. Sort of like having to
>try on jeans before buying to see if they really fit. I'm learning
>about gullets and restuffing, "A" framed trees and "Oval" trees and
>how
>important the contact on the horse's back along the tree is. If only
>part of the horse is touching the saddle because the gullets are too
>round, then too much pressure will be applied on the horse's back.
>
>Thanks again for the wonderful information sent out regarding saddle
>usage, types, etc. I'm still looking at Stubben VSD or Survivals. I
>like the quality of the leather and so far the way the total saddle
>fits Mystery. Anyone know of used Stubbens, preferable 32cm and 17 to
>
>18" seat size please forward them on to me.
>
>BTW, since Mystery got a chiropractic adjustment, (and he was very
>much
>out of alignment, probably from an injury he had in his pass), he is
>100% better. Feeling fit and fine, loving this dressage saddle, but
>acting like a wild beast again since he is living on all this fine
>pasture. He is moving freely, has improved response to leg and seat,
>and is trotting out strong...it is very gradifying to realize he is no
>
>longer in any pain or discomfort. This list has really been
>invaluable
>for the collective advise and perspectives of all, and for allowing me
>
>to meet some very, very good friends and riding partners...
>
>Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab)
>Pt.Reyes, CA
>
>
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Subject: Re: stepchildren and also rans?!
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:27:09 EST
I have no doubt that a horse who specializes in shorter races might beat
a good 100's horse. I know that a good Quarter Horse can blow my 100
mile horse off the trail for 100 yards. I just thought we were talking
about endurance racing, not just racing. I just can't accept the fact
that the winners of a wide open 25 mile race are telling me they don't
have time to train for 50. They obviously already have.
Angie
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:13:36 +0000 "Beth Glace" <lb@nismat.org> writes:
>> >Angie wrote:
> I see nothing wrong > with doing 25's forever if that's your thing.
> But I also see no glory
>> whatsoever in bragging that you win them.
>
>OK, I know I'm new to this sport, and perhaps I have too little
>experience to comment on this, but this kind of thinking stuns me.
>So, I'll risk provoking people and say that perhaps those that win at
>100's might not win at 25 if they were competing against horses who
>trained specifically to excel at that distance. You might find that
>some horses are genetically predisposed to have those traits
> that would allow them to train seriously, race seriously and be
>taken seriously at that distance. Maybe the Anglo/Arab crosses we've
>been discussing?
> I've said this before but I'll say it again, I think it's narrow
>minded to think that an animal who competes well over a 6 hour
>period, or 12 hour period or whatever, is a better athlete than one
>who races well over a 2 or 3 hour period. All of the above distances
>would qualify the horse as an endurance horse. All predominantly
>slow twitch muscle fiber recruitment. Again, this is exactly the
>attitude people took just after the running boom in the 80's when you
>weren't a real runner till you ran marathons. Well, a lot of them
>were, excuse me, just plain old slow. Looking at their marathon times
>you'd have to say "gosh, I don't know what they were doing out there
>but it wasn't running!" I tested 120-125 runners last year alone in
>our physiology lab and I can tell you that many of those "ultra"
>endurance type athletes are not very fit, although they may be very
>patient. When the stepchildren of the running world who did shorter
>races challenged these "real" runners at any distance, all that speed
>work paid off. Just about every person who runs at a world class
>level in the marathon, earlier ran and specialized in shorter
>distance races. When they got older, and their speed began to
>dwindle, they moved up to the longer races. Because longer races are
>more legitimate? NO! Because for the most part they were no longer
>competitive in the shorter event, and they had years of base
>training to work off. I think there are some parallels that can be
>drawn between these sports.
>
>I am by no means belittling the training, preparation, experience and
>common sense that most endurance riders bring to each race. But,
>please, if the LD's are illegitimate it's not due intrinsically to the
>distance, its due - in part- to self congratulatory attitudes by
>some individuals involved in the sport.
> She trotted very fast over switchbacks that had dry,
>light
>> powder brown dirt hiding the sharp granite stones.
>>
>This person sounds like she has a very fit horse that she took too
>many risks with. Pehaps she has an ego problem.
>
>> ****I ended up getting away from this group, but also notice
>> everyone else kind of let their horses take up that pace and follow
>> her right along.
>Clearly many people start with the 25s because you can complete them
>on lower training mileages. This can also mean that you have rookie
>riders that are trying to follow the example set by other riders, and
>who may get sucked into a dangerous situation if they follow the
>wrong person. We are each responsible first to get our horse safely
>through the course, and it is no excuse that someone else was going
>too fast....
>
>> ***BTW, gotta tell ya, if I ever did win a 25 and my HORSE was in
>> 100% condition, I=C6d be damn proud. But I wouldn=C6t be if I were
>> running him down hills with hidden rocks or if he was sore and
>> miserable.
>
>And you'd have a right to be proud! I hope we see people who learn
>to specialize in the shorter distances and who race these distances in
>a safe and sane manner. Hey Tom Ivers any thoughts on this?
>Will I be blasted now? Ikes, preparing my forifications and
>thickening my skin...
>Beth and Klass Act ["but Mom, going fast is so much fun"]
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
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Message-ID: <34CE19A3.866B2471@peop.tds.net>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:30:11 -0600
From: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sports Saddle Fit
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Bill & Dee Fortner wrote:
> For those of you that use the Sports Saddle, I have a question.
>
> How does it fit on a high, narrow withered horse? Do you have a problem with it closing in
> on you? By that I mean, since the withers are so much higher than the back, does the pommel
> feel like it moves toward your body?
>
> Dee
Hello Ridecampers,
I only received a few replies on how a sports saddle fits a high withered horse. Is it
because very few people use this type saddle on a high withered horse?
Dee
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: sanctioing LD rides
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:46:19 -0800
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Somebody asked a question earlier about whether or not
LD rides should be sanctioned.
It is against AERC rules to for a ride manager to run
a non-sanctioned event on the same course, at the
same time, as a sanctioned (e.g. 50, 100 mile) event.
(there are a few exceptions to this, such as futurities - IAHA).
Ride managers can not, by the rules, hold a sanctioned
50 mile ride, and a non-sanctioned 25 mile ride at the
same time. It was brought to the attention of the board
that this currently happens - and AERC really has no way
of knowing about it... since it's usually announced
at the ride, or by ride flyer, not through AERC.
Steph
(I'll have some convention updates, when I get caught up! )
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: SR Endurance saddles
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:01:06 -0800
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I think someone posted about a web page for the SR saddles.... if so,
could you post it again? thanks!
Steph
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:25:19 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
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To: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Is this allowed?
References: <766ec9f1.34ccf18d@aol.com>
<19980127.082611.6726.1.Rides2far@juno.com> <19980127.075402.4470.1.benamil@juno.com> <34CE2E80.691E@calweb.com>
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Lucy Chaplin Trumbull wrote:
>
> David Bennett wrote:
> >
> > ...I reached the conclusion that I would have done just as well to
> > start a 50 at those rides and quit if I felt my horse needed to stop.
>
> I wondered about doing this, if you *thought* your horse was
> ready, but weren't sure (because you'd never actually *ridden*
> 50 miles on your horse).
>
> Would this be frowned upon by ride management "taking up valuable
> rescue trailer space" and using up people's time? Or is it acceptable?
> --
Lucy,
I don't know how other ride managers feel, but I don't have a problem
with that. I frequently tell riders that are concerned about whether
their horse is capable of doing a 50 to go ahead and start and if
anytime during the competition they feel that they or the horse has had
enough, then they can pull. I realize that if too many of the riders
did that it would cause a trailering problem, but most riders want to
finish so it has never really been a problem.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:39:14 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: Cyndi Craig <cyndi.craig@chron.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Elevator Rides
References: <34C61F47.237C228A@chron.com>
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Hi all, we just returned from conference to find 513 E-mail messages!
So please forgive me if these are repetitive thoughts regarding the "Is
this Fair" thread. If you are not moving up to 50's and maybe someday,
100's, you might want to hit your "delete" now.
Most folks training for 50's seldom go more than 25 miles on training
rides (I know, there are exceptions). The point being that if you don't
have time (or trails) to condition at home, schedule your LD events as
the long ride component in your 50 mile training program. If there's
interest, I can expand this discussion later.
So how do you pick the big day to go for that first 50 for you or that
new horse? Most riders just do it. They sign-up and start with the
other 50 milers. There is, however, another way... You might be able to
"elevate."
Under certain circumstances, AERC Rules allow you to start one distance,
say a 25, and then later decide to attempt the next longer distance, in
this example 50 miles. This allows you and your horse go 25 miles (or
the LD distance for that ride) and then make an informed "go, no go"
decision based on the your (and the vet's) appraisal of the horse's
status. Maybe the vet or an experienced rider could evaluate you too!
Not all rides are "elevator" rides. In fact, elevator rides are seldom
offered. Most of the time it's because the loops are different,
staffing for vet checks doesn't work, etc. Sometimes the RM just says
it creates too much work for sanctioning and awards.
So if you feel your not getting full value for your LD entry fee, or if
you like the mid-ride decision option, why not visit with the ride
manager (months before the ride, of course) and discuss the elevator
concept. I've quoted the applicable AERC rules below for your
information.
Good Luck & Happy Trails,
Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
Cascade Endurance Center
Lyons, Oregon
AERC Rule1.2 states in part:
Endurance rides which are sanctioned for more than one distance
(such as a 50 and a 100 held over the same course at the same time)
have the option of allowing riders to "elevate" from one ride into
the
other, subject to the following restrictions: The rider may only
elevate from a shorter distance into a longer distance; the rider
may
elevate only once; upon elevating, the rider is no longer
considered to
be a starter or a finisher in the shorter ride; and the rules on
reduced Bonus Points for rides with fewer than eleven starters
apply.
1.2.1 Elevator rides must be indicated on the sanction
application
and advertised as such.
1.2.2 The rider must state which mileage he will enter if a
multiple mileage race; e.g. 50 mile, 100 mile or 150 mile.
1.2.3 A rider who elevates is eligible for completion only.
1.2.4 If the starting times are not the same, elevating riders
must have the time limits of Rule 5 applied to their original
ride's starting time.
AERC Rule1.4.5 says:
Ride management may allow elevation of equines 60 months or
older, from Limited Distance to the lowest full distance, but
for
completion only.
AERC Rule1.4.6 syas:
Limited Distance competitors must be offered a separate and
specific briefing on the special features and requirements of
Limited
Distance rides.
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: pictures of "complicated Mare"
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:39:02 -0700
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For all of you who telephoned and e-mailed in response to my posting of a
complicated mare needing a new home, I finally have a respectable photo
that I can send out. E-mail me privately if you haven't gotten yours yet
and would like to, and I will set it zooming through hyperspace as quickly
as the little electrons can go. Incidentally, my results of a totally
non-scientific and irreproducible study into the nature of endurance riders
shows me that you all love a CHALLENGE! I was flabbergasted by the
response we got for a home for this mare, and have decided that my current
marketing techniques at Black Bear Arabians are totally out of touch with
what you are all looking for! I clearly need to market all my horses as
renegades and rogues and I will be flooded with offers from people who
can't resist a DARE! I'm just joking, but Gretchen and I did have several
good chuckles! Seriously, we greatly appreciate all your interest and
caring about this horse, and hope we will have a great solution to
everyone's problem soon. Mary
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Message-ID: <34CE484F.1AD3@wvi.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:49:44 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
CC: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: sanctioing LD rides
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Hi Steph, welcome home,
This was written to you personally, but I'll post it on RC for general
information and discussion as well.
Here in the Northwest Region we have a number of PNER Rides that offer
training events of less than 25 miles. At the Sunday Board meeting in
KY, I asked if these events must be sanctioned as well? The response
was "no" in that they are not LD rides be definition (see AERC rules and
bylaws).
I'm concerned that PNER training rides which are not sanctioned may fall
OUTSIDE the insurance coverages offered by AERC. Do you (or anyone
else) have a current copy of the policy and declaration sheet issued to
RM's that you can send me?
Ramey
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Message-ID: <34CE4B6D.5B97@wvi.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:03:06 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: SR Saddles
References: <199801270354.VAA10201@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com> <19980128.022525.5478.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Hi Angie,
We use SR endurance saddles on a number of our horses. They get a lot
of VERY rough treatment and seem to hold up exceptionally well. So far
(maybe 3,000 miles or so) they have worked beautifully. We view them as
our #1 choice among the 20 or so different endurance saddles we have
here on the ranch.
Ramey
Cascade Endurance Center
Lyons, Oregon
Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
> I saw the SR saddle at the convention. The workmanship was beautiful.
> Don't know about the specifics, the Zes saddle looked strange. Steve Ray > seemed like a nice guy, and his saddle looked like quality stuff.
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: 25's
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:10:00 -0800
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I don't think there should be any acknowledgment for the "winner" of a
25. I think the finishers should be announced in alphabetical order (as
they almost always are here in our area) to discourage the weekend
warriors from killing their horses and thinking they're something hot if
they come in first. There's a person in our region that we called the
King of the 25's because he thought we was really a big deal because he
would win all the time. He didn't realize that he was the ONLY one
racing... the idiot. Erin McChesney told us 10 years ago when we
first started with her that it's sort of a disgrace to win a 25, that
they were for training rides and were to be ridden sensibly and
controlled. Has this thinking changed?
I think many of the people who ride mostly LD have a completely
different agenda from the 50/100 riders. There are those who are just
dabbling, those training for longer rides, and those who just really
LIKE the 25-mile distance. It lets you get out on the trail for a long
ride at a fun speed, not like slugging along on a "trail ride" (ick),
you get to ride in all kinds of new places, enjoy camaraderie, it really
develops your horse and gives you something to aim for in your daily
riding. All of these are perfectly acceptable reasons to be out there.
You don't have to want to win or go any farther.
Please let's not turn the 25's into speed mills.
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:27:16 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: stepchildren and also rans?!
>I have no doubt that a horse who specializes in shorter races might beat
>a good 100's horse. I know that a good Quarter Horse can blow my 100
>mile horse off the trail for 100 yards. I just thought we were talking
>about endurance racing, not just racing. I just can't accept the fact
>that the winners of a wide open 25 mile race are telling me they don't
>have time to train for 50. They obviously already have.
>
>Angie
Good point. They are probably on the way for training for a 100.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ramey@wvi.com'" <ramey@wvi.com>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: sanctioing LD rides
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:58:53 -0800
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Hi Ramey,
Regarding the non-sanctioned rides: I was informed that there is a
'standing rule' (this is what I was going to ask you about) that was
voted on by the board, many years ago, but never incorporated into
the printed rules, that says that a non-sanctioned event may not be
held at the same time, on the same course as a sanctioned event.
I believe this was intended to apply to rides of the same distance though-
I doubt if 10 mile trail rides were considered at the time.
I would love to see how this standing rule is stated. I'm not even sure
what year it was voted on, but I think it was a long time ago...
This came up primarily due to the Cosequin Challenge ride. This ride
is 3 concurrent events - FEI, IAHA and the open AERC 100 mile ride. The
brochure stated that those that pay their $250 entry fee are 'eligible'
for the AERC open event.... implying that they could pay their fees,
do the ride, but not participate in the AERC sanctioned event i.e. not
be bound by AERC rules. The concensus of the competition committee
was that this is NOT allowed - they could not have some participating
in the AERC ride only, and some participating in the FEI ride *only*.
All must be at the very least entered in the AERC sanctioned event,
following AERC rules. The brochure will be re-written to state that
all who pay their entry fee will automatically be entered in the AERC
(open) 100 mile ride.
This is not to say that an FEI only (non AERC) ride cannot be held,
only to say that *if* there is to be AERC sanctioning of the event,
then all who enter must be enrolled in the AERC event. Bottom line.
At least this is what I understood... some things still seem a little fuzzy.
There doesn't seem to be any objection to the concurrent running of
rides less than 25 miles.
Steph
(I'll have to dig around for last year's insurance policy for our ride... I don't
think it matters whether it's AERC sanctioned or not though)
Here in the Northwest Region we have a number of PNER Rides that offer
training events of less than 25 miles. At the Sunday Board meeting in
KY, I asked if these events must be sanctioned as well? The response
was "no" in that they are not LD rides be definition (see AERC rules and
bylaws).
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:55:01 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Jacqueline Mansfield <jaxson@leopard.com>
Subject: Accumulated miles VS "racing" 25 mile LD rides
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At 01:10 PM 1/27/98 -0800, you wrote:
>I don't think there should be any acknowledgment for the "winner" of a 25.
I think the finishers should be announced in alphabetical >order to
discourage the weekend warriors from killing their horses and thinking
they're something hot if they come in first.
I would completely agree with this statement. As a person who has yet to
do a ride longer than 25, I must say that I could care less who comes in
first - if you look at my ride results Winza and I are usually last or very
close to last (it is pretty embarassing when you look at your watch and
realize, "WHOOPS! We had better step up the pace or we won't make the cut
off time!!!") = ). I would be happy if the "winner" was the person at the
end of the season who had the most miles accumulated within his/her
division. True, it takes LD riders much longer to accumulate
hundreds/thousands of miles, but when you consider all the traveling and
time they had to put into to get 500/1000 miles it really shows his/her
dedication to the sport!
Couldn't the LD rides be sanctioned (sp?) this way?
Jacqueline Mansfield and Winza, the 25 mile horse who may be a 50 mile
horse someday
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:10:46 -0600
From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
Organization: Manuel LaBoure Ranch
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Subject: Another horse for sale
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Since this seems to be the day to advertise some horses for sale,
thought I'd add mine to the list:
I have a beautiful black Missouri Fox Trotter/Arab mix gelding, 8 years
old, 15 hands, weighing 1,025 pounds (by actual scale!). He has a star
and snip, and two white sox on near side. He is the 1997 Second place
novice horse in Competitive Trail for Region 4 (Texas, Oklahoma,
Arkansas and Louisana). I have also done several Limited Distance rides
on him and he has had good P&Rs and finished every ride started. This
horse has thousands of trail miles on him and is safe for anyone to
ride. Horse is capable of much more than rider! Asking $3,500. Might
negotiate some for a right match. Live in Texas.
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: last word
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 14:50:00 -0800
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One last word on dogs and kids, I don't bring my dogs and my kids are
grown and flown, but I can't always control my HUSBAND. You ladies know
how it is. Guys have a few drinks and they'll pee anywhere! If you
have trouble with him wandering through your camp, fouling your hay,
annoying your horses, rummaging through your food ... please let me or
ride management know immediately. I do try to be a responsible wife but
sometimes he gets away from me!
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: 25's
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:17:09 -0700
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Ann -
I couldn't agree more, and your story about the King of the 25's really
made me smile. This past year my 10 year old daughter got the endurance
"bug" and to my great delight has been competing with me successfully all
summer long. Her first 25 mile ride last spring was "won" by a guy who was
a polo player, on a TB gelding that was 4 years old and had never done an
"endurance" event before (neither rider nor horse). The course was poorly
marked, and the 25 mile course ended up being more like 35 miles counting
all the times everyone got lost, and this "genius" galloped his horse the
entire way. It took him 59 minutes to reach criteria after the finish. I
was doing the fifty on my stud, so I didn't run into him, but my daughter
said he galloped past a group of them scattering horses and riders in all
directions. I didn't know the guy, but after the race, the local
newspapers published the top finishers and Kate and I were on the list, so
he looked us up in the phonebook, and called, exulting over his "victory."
He thought the sport was exactly what he wanted to do with his horse, and
couldn"t understand all the hoopla about Arabians, since his TB had passed
them all and won so easily!!!! I didn't have the heart to tell him he was
the only one that was racing! I suspect I'll have to break it to him at
some point, since he consistently gallops through bunches of riders on the
longer distances with absolutely no thought of trail etiquette, and my
stallion is definitely going to discourage him with his rear hooves if he
keeps it up! Mary
----------
> From: Blankenship, Ann <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
> To: 'ridecamp' <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> Subject: 25's
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 02:10 PM
>
> I don't think there should be any acknowledgment for the "winner" of a
> 25. I think the finishers should be announced in alphabetical order (as
> they almost always are here in our area) to discourage the weekend
> warriors from killing their horses and thinking they're something hot if
> they come in first.
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: "Steph Teeter" <step@fsr.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: sanctioning LD rides
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:15:58 -0700
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Steph:
I am going to combine your answers to Ramey and myself into one post and
answer as well as I can.
<<<<You're right according to the printed rules -
1.4 Limited Distance Rides may be offered but must be sanctioned into the
AERC
Limited Distance Program and held in conjunction with an AERC
sanctioned
Endurance ride and must be regulated by AERC Rules and Regulations,
with the
following provisos:
A ride cannot offer an unsanctioned LD ride.>>>
A ride cannot offer Limited Distance Ride, call it a Limited Distance Ride
with our AERC sanctioning. They can offer the same distance and call it a
pleasure ride and AERC cannot do any thing about it.
<<<BUT - according to Courtney Hart, there is an AERC standing rule that
a non-sanctioned event cannot be held at the same time, same course,
as a sanctioned event.>>>>
There is no such thing as a “standing rule”!!!! If it is not in the AERC
Articles of Incorporation, the AERC By-laws, or the AERC Rules &
Regulations then it isn’t a rule. Now, we have many precedents set in the
past that are ignored. Arlene at one time collected all of these and
submitted them to the AERC. No one cared the least so they were ignored.
<<<<This came up primarily due to the Cosequin Challenge ride. This ride
is 3 concurrent events - FEI, IAHA and the open AERC 100 mile ride. The
brochure stated that those that pay their $250 entry fee are 'eligible'
for the AERC open event.... implying that they could pay their fees,
do the ride, but not participate in the AERC sanctioned event i.e. not
be bound by AERC rules. The consensus of the competition committee
was that this is NOT allowed - they could not have some participating
in the AERC ride only, and some participating in the FEI ride *only*.
This is not to say that an FEI only (non AERC) ride cannot be held,
only to say that *if* there is to be AERC sanctioning of the event,
then all who enter must be enrolled in the AERC event.>>>>
Any ride put on under the IAHA or FEI banner will not be held with out the
sanctioning of the AERC, This is paramount in the organization of these
organizations. All AERC rules are in force and in particular read the
preface to the itemized rules.
What is somewhat confusing is the inclusion of our Rule 14. In the case of
the CC ride there is ONLY ONE EVENT!!! It will be AERC sanctioned or there
will be no points or miles. The IAHA has approved this ride for additional
IAHA credit as the IAHA National Championship ride for that organization.
The FEI has also further sanctioned this ride for INTERNATIONAL competition
thus allowing this ride to qualify riders, so cross entered, for
international recognition. Still only one event, the riders have the
option of “purchasing” recognition beyond AERC.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:17:32 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
CC: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: last word
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Blankenship, Ann wrote:
can't always control my HUSBAND. You ladies know
> how it is. Guys have a few drinks and they'll pee anywhere! If you
> have trouble with him wandering through your camp, fouling your hay,
> annoying your horses, rummaging through your food ... please let me or
> ride management know immediately.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!! Oh Lord Ann, that is just too funny, and I can relate
:)
My hubby turns into "Mr Social" and everytime I look for him, he has
wandered over to someone else's camp, introduced himself and taken up
residence talking their ears off, till I go drag him back to our camp<G>
I guess I should make the same offer...if he annoys you, just let me
know <BG>
tracy
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To: elsie@calweb.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:46:39 EST
Subject: Re: Is this allowed?
Message-ID: <19980127.194639.4318.0.benamil@juno.com>
References: <766ec9f1.34ccf18d@aol.com>
<34CE2E80.691E@calweb.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.49
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From: benamil@juno.com (David Bennett)
Riders always have the option to pull their entry at any check without
asking permission. Only requirement is to notify the in-timer that you
are pulling and turn in the vet card so that management knows what is
happening. Also, responsibility for his or her mount is the rider's.
A person ought to know the horse well enough to make a decision to quit
if that becomes necessary. That's what "rider option" means. I guess
that management would prefer this type of pull rather than one that was
forced and resulted in a horse needing treatment.
I definitely did not mean that I would have run my horse until he
required a rescue trailer before deciding that we should stop!
Dave Bennett
Chickamauga, Georgia
benamil@juno.com
On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 10:59:12 -0800 Lucy Chaplin Trumbull
<elsie@calweb.com> writes:
>David Bennett wrote:
>>
>> ...I reached the conclusion that I would have done just as well to
>> start a 50 at those rides and quit if I felt my horse needed to
>stop.
>
>I wondered about doing this, if you *thought* your horse was
>ready, but weren't sure (because you'd never actually *ridden*
>50 miles on your horse).
>
>Would this be frowned upon by ride management "taking up valuable
>rescue trailer space" and using up people's time? Or is it acceptable?
>--
>**************************************************************
>Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
>Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
>
>http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
>http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
>**************************************************************
>
>
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: sanctioing LD rides
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:33:22 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34e96dc2.85960124@mail.mti.net>
References: <01BD2B2B.B4CC06E0@seahorse.fsr.com>
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On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 13:58:53 -0800, Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com> wrote:
>Regarding the non-sanctioned rides: I was informed that there is a
>'standing rule' (this is what I was going to ask you about) that was
>voted on by the board, many years ago, but never incorporated into
>the printed rules, that says that a non-sanctioned event may not be
>held at the same time, on the same course as a sanctioned event.
>I believe this was intended to apply to rides of the same distance though-
>I doubt if 10 mile trail rides were considered at the time.
It was several years back when I was still on the Board. The concern
was twofold. Insurance concerns, and damage to the AERC should a
"crash & burn" 25 mile race not following AERC rules be held in
conjunction with an AERC event -- and a disaster occured. The Catoosa
disaster was on everyone's minds.
That is, we wanted to be sure that *all* rides held at an AERC
sanctioned event have proper veterinary control. I don't recall that
any resolution was arrived at for the "fun rides" of less than 25
miles.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 25's
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 23:36:41 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34ea6f02.86280735@mail.mti.net>
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On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:17:09 -0700, "Mary Burgess"
<mburgess@theglobal.net> wrote:
...
>The course was poorly
>marked, and the 25 mile course ended up being more like 35 miles counting
>all the times everyone got lost, and this "genius" galloped his horse the
>entire way. It took him 59 minutes to reach criteria after the finish.
In most LD rides this would have disqualified him; unlike the 50's you
are often allowed only 30 minutes to reach criteria at any vet check
and the finish (an excellent rule IMO and a required rule at all SERA
sanctioned rides).
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
http://www.mti.net Business
http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:57:52 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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To: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: EP-Las Cruces results?? Feed question
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Truman Prevatt wrote: The Farr rep told me they
> retrofitted a mill somewhere in the western states (at least west of the
> Mississippi) to fill the feed. It is good and I reccomend it. It's called
> Legacy. Their other feed are also good. The are a lot more consistant
> than most of the other brands I have tried.
>
Thanks for the info Truman, I will have to check again. I'm in AZ, and
when I asked my Nuterna dealer about getting the Legacy, they told me it
was unavailable.
Purina has something similar called Complete Advantage. I believe the
fat content is a bit lower though.
tracy
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:22:09 -0800
From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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To: David Bennett <benamil@juno.com>
CC: Endurance list <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Is this allowed?
References: <766ec9f1.34ccf18d@aol.com>
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David Bennett wrote:
>
> Riders always have the option to pull their entry at any check without
> asking permission....
> A person ought to know the horse well enough to make a decision to quit
> if that becomes necessary. That's what "rider option" means....
>
> I definitely did not mean that I would have run my horse until he
> required a rescue trailer before deciding that we should stop!
Oh! Sorry! That wasn't what I was implying at all. I was just curious
to know if entering a 50, say, with the suspicion that you wouldn't be
able to complete, was frowned upon, or whether it was done often, as
a matter of course...
--
**************************************************************
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
**************************************************************
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 18:36:56 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
cc: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: 25 mile ride personal survey.
In-Reply-To: <B1E505F17237D111A8DC0000F81ED95447DF18@CS0007>
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> Should 25 mile rides be sanctioned and treated exactly like the 50 miles
> or not.
No.
> 1. AERC currently defines the 25 mile ride as a "novice" event. Quote
> from the website "These rides are not considered endurance rides by AERC
> but are referred to as Limited Distance rides."
Having completed a single 25 mile ride, with a time just under 4 hours, I
will state that I do not consider a 25-mi ride an "endurance" ride. Any
reasonably fit horse and rider can ride 25 miles in 6 hours. That's just
not "endurance" in my book. I'm sorry, flame me if you will, but it just
ain't that hard! Especially with all the wonderful support you get from
the ride management, vet staff and other riders. I've been riding less
than 3 years, and I am no athlete let me assure you, but I managed to do
it without much difficulty. I consider the 25s to be training for
endurance, or just-for-fun rides.
> 2. Approx. 60% of the 25 mile entries are non-AERC members.
> 3. AERC is trying to promote the health and welfare of the horse in long
> distance competition.
Taking these two together, it's clear that people ride LDs for different
reasons. I think it's great that non-AERC people can ride LDs for the
experience, exposure to endurance, etc., and that LDs should continue to
be offered for that reason, as well as for their usefulness to
endurance-riders-in-training like myself, and bringing along young horses
or bringing back recovered hroses, etc. That still doesn't mean that a
25 is an endurance ride. It's not.
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'bobmorris@rmci.net'" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: sanctioning LD rides, rules
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:07:57 -0800
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> A ride cannot offer Limited Distance Ride, call it a Limited Distance Ride
> with our AERC sanctioning. They can offer the same distance and call it a
> pleasure ride and AERC cannot do any thing about it.
So Bob, by the same logic, a ride manager could hold
2 concurrent 50 mile events? One an AERC sanctioned ride, the other
non-sanctioned 50 mile trail ride... and maybe offering prize money?
I think the fact that LD is defined as a ride between 25 and 35 miles
may preclude offering a non-sanctioned 25 mile race. But, certainly
the way the current rulebook reads, a ride manager *could* offer
a concurrent 24 mile race, or 40 mile race - and do whatever they
want with it, vet checks or not, prize money or not. Do you agree?
**Unless this 'standing rule' is truly binding.
> There is no such thing as a "standing rule"!!!! If it is not in the AERC
> Articles of Incorporation, the AERC By-laws, or the AERC Rules &
> Regulations then it isn't a rule. Now, we have many precedents set in the
> past that are ignored. Arlene at one time collected all of these and
> submitted them to the AERC. No one cared the least so they were ignored.
I believe there are such things as 'standing rules'. But, I don't
know how binding they are. basically don't know a darn thing about them. I've
asked Ramey to clarify. My first reaction was the same as yours. It's possible
that nobody cares and these things will be ignored ... but I'd sort of like to
know the story on this.
> Any ride put on under the IAHA or FEI banner will not be held with out the
> sanctioning of the AERC, This is paramount in the organization of these
> organizations. All AERC rules are in force and in particular read the
> preface to the itemized rules.
The organizers of the Cosequin Challenge said they would do the ride
with or without AERC, but certainly preferred to keep it within AERC .
There are FEI rides in other countries that have nothing to do with AERC.
Why should they be bound to do so here in the states??
> What is somewhat confusing is the inclusion of our Rule 14. In the case of
> the CC ride there is ONLY ONE EVENT!!! It will be AERC sanctioned or there
> w ill be no points or miles. The IAHA has approved this ride for additional
> IAHA credit as the IAHA National Championship ride for that organization.
> The FEI has also further sanctioned this ride for INTERNATIONAL competition
> thus allowing this ride to qualify riders, so cross entered, for
> international recognition. Still only one event, the riders have the
> option of "purchasing" recognition beyond AERC.
Yes, this is the case with the CC, because they *wanted* it to be an AERC
sanctioned event. But they still had the option of holding the event without
AERC.
...my brain is tired :)
Steph
----------
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 17:24:01 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801280124.RAA21818@fsr.com>
Subject: Arab Hater(sends them for meat!)
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: debbie zanot
Email: mrwallet@key-net.net
There was a gentleman who wanted to know who the Arab Hater was in OH..I lost your addy..e-mail me again..I have the info.
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:46:36 -0800
From: Lynne Glazer <lglazer@cyberg8t.com>
Reply-To: Lynne@Glazer.org
Organization: Lynne Glazer Microsystems
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To: "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
CC: SandyDSA@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: is this fair?
References: <766ec9f1.34ccf18d@aol.com> <19980127.082611.6726.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Angie, I 99% agree with your statements, but want to add that sometimes
the rider may not be sure whether the horse is ready to move up in
distances--and an effortless finish can confirm that it's time to move
up.
My coming-6 horse was left to finish growing for 4 months after 2 years
of conditioning and 3 LDs, and I brought her back over 2 months to do a
30. She finished 2nd and had at least 10 more miles in her,on a ride
where the ridecamp elevation was 7000 ft, not her normal sea level. On
that basis, I moved her up to 50s, but wouldn't you agree that after a
layoff like that the 50 wouldn't have been a smart move?
Lynne
and Rem-member Me
>>I truly believe "To Finish is to Win" at any distance. But I also
believe that any horse that wins a 25 could have done a nice solid
completion with less effort on a 50. If they're 4 and couldn't enter
the
50, they shouldn't have gone fast enough to win the 25. I guess that's
why I just can't see being...oh, top 5. There are some people in the
back of top 10 in the 25 around here who ride a very nice race on well
conditioned horses...come to think of it, they probably could finish a
50
too. By the way, when I top tenned in the 50's several times this year,
several people asked, "Isn't it about time you did a 100?" So I did,
and
they were right, we were ready and I enjoyed it.<<
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:06:18 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801280206.AA03288@cody.unavco>
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 25's
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
I just checked the AERC rules on the net and they state that LD horses
must recover within 30 minutes and that the finish time is the time
at which criteria is met. (1.4.7.2 and 1.4.7.3). Unfortunately there
are people who ride LD's with the goal of riding the course the fastest
and unless they are pulled at a vet check they consider themselves winners
in their own minds even if their horse was not the first to recover to
criteria, and with no thought whatsoever to the BC scoring. (Of course
there are also people who ride 50's this way.)
Teresa
>> >entire way. It took him 59 minutes to reach criteria after the finish.
>
> In most LD rides this would have disqualified him; unlike the 50's you
> are often allowed only 30 minutes to reach criteria at any vet check
> and the finish (an excellent rule IMO and a required rule at all SERA
> sanctioned rides).
>
> --
>
> Joe Long
> jlong@mti.net
> http://www.mti.net Business
> http://www.rnbw.com Personal
>
>
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From: "Mary Burgess" <mburgess@theglobal.net>
To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: 25's
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:41:48 -0700
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I agree totally, Joe. This was a first time ride and manager and vet team,
and this rider kept working on the team to increase the time. A much
better lesson would have been learned if he had been disqualified and
instructed on how to better care for his horse. This next year he will
move up to 50's, and it may be just the impetus I need to move up to 100's
to stay out of his way! Mary
----------
> From: Joe Long <jlong@mti.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: 25's
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 04:36 PM
>
> On Tue, 27 Jan 1998 16:17:09 -0700, "Mary Burgess"
> <mburgess@theglobal.net> wrote:
>
> ...
> >The course was poorly
> >marked, and the 25 mile course ended up being more like 35 miles
counting
> >all the times everyone got lost, and this "genius" galloped his horse
the
> >entire way. It took him 59 minutes to reach criteria after the finish.
>
> In most LD rides this would have disqualified him; unlike the 50's you
> are often allowed only 30 minutes to reach criteria at any vet check
> and the finish (an excellent rule IMO and a required rule at all SERA
> sanctioned rides).
>
> --
>
> Joe Long
> jlong@mti.net
> http://www.mti.net Business
> http://www.rnbw.com Personal
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:17:35 -0600
To: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>,
"'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: 25 mile ride personal survey.
In-Reply-To: <B1E505F17237D111A8DC0000F81ED95447DF18@CS0007>
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Yes, please sanction them. I don't plan to do 25s forever, but would like
some atta girls for the ones we do. The vets have told me I have a 50 to
100 mile horse. Unfortunately, the poor boy is saddled with a 25 mile
rider! I'm trying to catch up with him!
chris paus & star
At 10:49 AM 1/27/98 -0500, Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT) wrote:
>I would like to see the ridecamp opinion on 25 mile rides.
>
>Should 25 mile rides be sanctioned and treated exactly like the 50 miles
>or not.
>
>Points to consider or comment on:
>
>1. AERC currently defines the 25 mile ride as a "novice" event. Quote
>from the website "These rides are not considered endurance rides by AERC
>but are referred to as Limited Distance rides."
>
>2. Approx. 60% of the 25 mile entries are non-AERC members.
>
>3. AERC is trying to promote the health and welfare of the horse in long
>distance competition.
>
>4. 25 mile rides generate quite a bit of revenue.
>
>5. I have heard the argument that most 50 milers run faster on average
>than the 25 miler.
> Is this correct? has anyone evaluated all the factors including
>hold times, pulse criteria etc.? Or have they just compared winning
>times?
>
>6. It would be nice to know the statistics such as number of horses
>entered, top tened, best condition, etc. and seen year after year and
>mile after mile, or never seen again for whatever reason.
>
>Thanks,
>Suzanne
>
>
>
>
>
sonal survey.
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Yes, please sanction them. I don't plan to do 25s forever, but would like
some atta girls for the ones we do. The vets have told me I have a 50 to
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:23:57 -0600
To: Bill & Dee Fortner <wfortner@peop.tds.net>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Sports Saddle Fit
In-Reply-To: <34CE19A3.866B2471@peop.tds.net>
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My barrel racing buddy uses a bob marshall treeless saddle on her wide
backed, low withered horse, but says it doesn't work on her high-withered TB.
chris paus
At 11:30 AM 1/27/98 -0600, Bill & Dee Fortner wrote:
>
>
>Bill & Dee Fortner wrote:
>
>> For those of you that use the Sports Saddle, I have a question.
>>
>> How does it fit on a high, narrow withered horse? Do you have a problem
with it closing in
>> on you? By that I mean, since the withers are so much higher than the
back, does the pommel
>> feel like it moves toward your body?
>>
>> Dee
>
> Hello Ridecampers,
>
> I only received a few replies on how a sports saddle fits a high
withered horse. Is it
>because very few people use this type saddle on a high withered horse?
>
>Dee
>
>
>
>
>
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From: XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:44:00, -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: limited distance thoughts
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A couple thoughts on the threads on limited distance.
My background...3500+ miles, my first LD ever last month because my horse
is not old enough. I would much rather do a slow 50 than a 25, but I hold
that only for myself, not others.
I put on a large ride with approximately 50 LD riders and 50 50 milers....
1. Costs: They are not the same. The vets have to be there longer, and
many more awards are given on the 50 mile ride, though both get beautiful
original artwork by co-manager(husband) on mugs as completions.
2. Our fees for LD are only $10 less than 50s. Our 50 is $50 and our 25
is $40. Most rides in our region the 50 is $55 and the 25 is $35. I try to
encourage people to make the jump to 50s by having not much difference in
price. My ride is easy and a good one for a first 50.
3. $10 fee. Yeah, yeah, I've heard both sides talked to death. I am
against the fee for limited distance for two reasons.
#1. Is we are trying to PROMOTE the sport and ENCOURAGE people to try this
thing called endurance, not discourage newcomers.
#2. This is a managerial nightmare and will cause more RM to put on a "24
mile" ride which does not have to be sanctioned. Everyone looses out, AERC
looses money, and AERC members do not get points.
Just another angle some may have not seen.....
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Arabians
Okmulgee Cougar Prowl
Oklahoma
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From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: 25 miler non-AERCs do pay!
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
>? wrote:
>2. Approx. 60% of the 25 mile entries are non-AERC members.
>
Those folks should be very greatful for us paying AERC members giving
them a place to ride their horses.
I believe we should charge a non-member fee the same as we do for the
other rides.
Kimberly writes:
***Sorry, I don't know who wrote the above, but non-AERC members doing
25 miles pay an extra $10 to ride, so please clarify the above
statement. Or is this not true in all rides / regions? Question: Now
that I'm a new AERC member, I shouldn't have to pay that extra $10 when
I do an LD ride...correct?
And then,
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
Points to consider or comment on:
> 2. Approx. 60% of the 25 mile entries are non-AERC members.
Here again very true. If one is not looking for national or regional
recognition or is not completely supportive of the National
organization,what is the advantage of membership?
***To save $10 per ride and get the magazine!
***Remember, the gripe is respect, not awards or placings for 25
milers. This is reflected in the "flavor" given the ride by RM. I
really like rides where the 25ers are encouraged to asked questions,
etc. I've been to rides where they are basically ignored and this
gives a new comer a totally different impression than the other. Take
the time to emphasize LDs are for conditioning, training, learning, and
introduction to distance. I bet fewer people will overrun their horses
or gripe about not having top ten placings etc (I hope!). And
Bob...its been too long since you were green and shy cause you probably
NEVER were! <g> But this first impression could change the way you view
this sport for the rest of your life.
**** ONE more Question: When you join AERC are they suppose to send
you a card and a number?
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab..."I know some top ten arabs...sometimes I
pass them too...just not at a ride!")
Pt.Reyes
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:09:41 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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Here is the answer I got from Kathleen Crandell, PhD Equine Nutritionist
Kentucky Equine Research in regards to molasses:
**********************************************************************
Dear Tracy:
In answer to your question about molasses being bad for endurance
horses. There has been no scientific research that I know of done on
feeding molasses to endurance horses. There are certain well known
individuals that, when up on their soap boxes, can be really hard on
molasses, but their concerns are mostly unfounded in research. If
molasses were bad for the endurance horse then how could the World
Champion who has been on the same sweet feed for several years (7%
molasses) being doing so well? There are many endurance horses here on
the east coast which are fed sweet feeds without any detriment to their
performance.
In knowing the physiology of digestion of carbohydrates and nature of
molasses I have a hard time believing that the small amounts to the feed
(5-12% for sweet feeds and 2-4% for pelleted feeds) could make that much
difference in the performance of the horse. Pound for pound, molasses
has fewer calories than corn, less protein than oats, and twice as much
fiber as corn. Total digestible nutrients (TDN) for molasses is only
54%, while corn is 80% and oats are 65%. I can understand how molasses
can get a bad rep because it is sweet tasting and it is very palatable
to horses. One might think that the horse is getting a dose of pure
sugar, but as stated previously, that is not so. Molasses is what is
left after most of the sugar has been extracted.
We at Kentucky Equine Research have studied the effects of different
feeds and feeding times on blood glucose and insulin. Feeding of grain
(the same scenario goes for molassed or unmolassed feeds) causes a surge
in blood glucose. When blood glucose goes up then insulin is released
to promote the storage of the glucose for later use. As the blood
glucose level drops, so does insulin. The more grain fed, the higher
the glucose and insulin peaks. There is some evidence that these rises
and falls of insulin and glucose can have effects on the brain, causing
the horse to have greater mood swings. These changes in glucose and
insulin are not nearly as dramatic when the horse is fed hay. This may
explain some of the difference in personality when a horse is put on a
high grain diet. The amount of molasses in the feed does not appear to
influence the height of the peaks for glucose or insulin. Horses fed
pelleted feed, which has much lower levels of molasses, exhibit just as
much "grain mania" (irritable, excitable, impatient, crazed, etc.) as
when fed sweet feed.
I cannot help but wonder if some of the fear of feeding molasses to
endurance horses has to do with the misconception that feeding molasses
is like giving a candy bar and reinforcing the overwillingness of an
incredibly fit horse to go. Actually, what may be thought of as an
effect of molasses may simply be an effect of grain feeding (sugar and
starch). If you have heard other theories as to why molasses might be
bad for an endurance horse, I would be interested in hearing them.
Kathleen Crandell, PhD
Equine Nutritionist
Kentucky Equine Research
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From: Arabryder <Arabryder@aol.com>
Message-ID: <de5cfefe.34cec131@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 00:25:02 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Hobbles
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I'd be very careful about using hobbles at rides - or probably not at all. A
couple of summers ago, we were on a back country campout. Three of our seven
horses were hobbled. Two of the horses were loose - just grazing. Suddenly,
they ALL decided to take off down the trail at a fast gallop, including the
hobbled horses.
Fortunately, they came back to camp. One of the hobbled horses had obviously
taken a pretty bad spill with a scrapped up nose and bloody knees. She wasn't
injured badily but it could have been worse.
Imagine if we were all asleep and this happened??
Also, the first time I put Countach in hobbles, he was across the pasture at a
full gallop in no time. It's scary to watch but they figure it out.
Diana & Countach
San Jose, CA
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From: PEGGASIS <PEGGASIS@aol.com>
Message-ID: <7ed51020.34cec998@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 01:00:54 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Can't condition for a 50?
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I've read lots of LD riders say they can't condition for a 50. When I started
endurance I had two Quarter Horses. Not the A-1 type of endurance horse, so I
just entered 50's anyway and used the LSD of the 50 miles to condition my
horses. I could only ride one day a week, but it was in the mountains. My
little un-conditioned quarter horses racked up 765 miles, they enjoyed the
trails and camping out and the extra care they recieved; while giving myself a
true sense of horsemanship, knowing we did it. If you really have the Heart
for this Sport, then go for it. It's not all about competing.....it's you,
your horse and the challenge of the trail, use it to reach your own goals,
don't say I can't!
Just my 2 cents worth.
Peggie Norton
Las Vegas Distance Riders
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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 22:43:21 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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Subject: Re: Can't condition for a 50?
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> I've read lots of LD riders say they can't condition for a 50. I just entered
> 50's anyway and used the LSD of the 50 miles to condition my horses. It's you,
> your horse and the challenge of the trail, use it to reach your own goals, don't
> say I can't!
I loved this statement! I've been wondering about the LD debate for awhile, now.
Gabe and I jumped into this endurance thing with all four feet, and haven't looked
back.
I first heard endurance was 100 miles in one day........and I KNEW I could never
do that! Then a friend said they do 50's, too. Okay......50
miles........ummmm...exactly how far is that? Still didn't seem likely for us.
Then I heard that a 25 mile ride was being put on on. I thought......okay, I can
figure out all this stuff about endurance in this 25 mile ride. So, we went to
the ride. Nervous as all get-out.....and completed. Crossed the finish
line......looked around for our friends we started with......had lunch.....had a
beer......still no friends.
Walked Gabe out to loosen him up........after he had just done 25 MILES! Then the
50's came in for the lunch stop and Gabe went bannanas trying to follow. Couldn't
keep him from going in circles around me on the lead.
Welp.......that's all I needed to convince me that the next ride was gonna be a
50. (two beers later....friends come in)
It really doesn't take any more preparation for a 50. You need to pack the same
stuff......take the same amount of time off.....drive the same distance.......you
just get to ride for a little longer! It's great! Go for it!
--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe~~Whaddya mean.........I could have stopped at 25?
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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From: Merryben <Merryben@aol.com>
Message-ID: <45410018.34ceeb50@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:24:46 EST
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 25 miler non-AERCs do pay!
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In a message dated 98-01-28 00:05:41 EST, you write:
<< Kimberly writes:
***Sorry, I don't know who wrote the above, but non-AERC members doing
25 miles pay an extra $10 to ride, so please clarify the above
statement. Or is this not true in all rides / regions? Question: Now
that I'm a new AERC member, I shouldn't have to pay that extra $10 when
I do an LD ride...correct?
>>
According to AERC rules, the $10.00 fee does not apply to 25 milers. Somebody
has been charging you too much. Maybe it is simply a misunderstanding but one
you should clarify....Maryben Stover, West Region Director
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Message-ID: <34CF2CC4.5427@earthlink.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:04:04 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Can't condition for a 50?
References: <7ed51020.34cec998@aol.com> <34CED389.D3F0529E@geocities.com>
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Deanne Del Vecchio wrote:
> I can
> figure out all this stuff about endurance in this 25 mile ride. <snip>
> Walked Gabe out to loosen him up........after he had just done 25 MILES! Then the
> 50's came in for the lunch stop and Gabe went bannanas trying to follow.
Sounds like when I started my latest new horse (several years ago). We
decided to do a slow 25 since he had never been through a vet check,
ridden in large groups, etc. My husband who was on the 50 rode the
first loop with me, then went on to his second loop. Rocket went
ballistic! He would have done less distance on that loop than what he
did in his pen & on the lead. His next ride was a 50 which he completed
at the back of the pack, but prancing across the finish line. The
distance is as much a mental barrier for the rider as anything. I've
found that if I divide a ride into segments, I can <always> ride 5 or 10
more miles. Besides, the horse doesn't know how far you're going
today! No mental barrier for him.
As an aside, I had a mare who had only done 25 & 30 mile rides. The
first ride with me, she got into the mid-point vet check at 28 miles and
refused to leave. She had done "her" ride and was ready to quit!
Nothing wrong, not tired, just a "I'm finished" attitude. I could see
this as a potential obstacle for moving up to another distance if the
horse got very set in her ways.
I agree that any horse who has a regular amount of excercise (turn out &
moderate riding) can compete a 25 mile ride. The sanity of the 50 makes
it worth entering over the hype found in the 25 with lots of new
horses/riders.
Until we moved to WV, we had to trailer 45 minutes to an hour in order
to be able to ride & train. In addition I worked 50-60 hours per week
and my husband had a full time job as well. We were lucky to squeeze
one day a week of training in. As a base, we'd ride 15-20 miles on the
weekend at a 5-7 mph. We included sprints, slow trotting, and rolling
canters. We taught the guys to cover ground <walking> so that they made
progress while resting. When we started to compete, the competitions
<were> our training.
After a year off, I was thinking about putting Rocket in the Old
Dominion No Frills 25 to see how he handles it mentally after his
layoff. After writing this, maybe I should just bite the bullet & do
the 50 :) (All assuming that my new job lets me off!)
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton MIlls, WV
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From: Cyberpony <Cyberpony@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a2ab1da.34cf3246@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:27:33 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Does anyone have the results of the FLORIDA 100 ?
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How many started?
How many finished?
How did they place?
etc?
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:38:24 -0600
To: PEGGASIS <PEGGASIS@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Can't condition for a 50?
In-Reply-To: <7ed51020.34cec998@aol.com>
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I don't recall saying I "couldn't" train for 50s. My personal situation is
some physiological problems. I will get to 50s ,but have to condition my
own body more than my horse's. He's ready to go.
Teh distance riding group I belong to has 15/30 CTRs and 25/50 endurance
rides. I started out with 15s until those got easy, then I tried my first
25. When I no longer hurt for 4 days after doing a 25, I'll move up to 50s.
This spring I plan to do one 15 CTR to get back into the swing of things
and then move up to 30 CTRs and do 25 LD endurance until I am comfortable
at that and then move to 50s.
I think the whole crux of the matter is not how much we woosies pay for our
rides or what kind of prizes we get, but the fact that we are out there
doing what we can deserves some atta girls and atta boys, adn if not that,
then at least we deserve to do our rides without scoffing from the other
riders.
Maybe I've been hanging around with an exceptionally good group, but no one
I've ridden with has looked down on the shorter distance riders and we've
been encouraged to do our paces and have a good time. In fact, one very
experienced rider told me that one mistake many distance riders make is
moving up in distance too soon and getting discouraged.
However, that is not the same feedback we are getting from many ridecampers.
To people in the non-distance riding world, 25 miles sounds like an awsome
feat, 50 and 100 mile rides are not comprehensible to them.
P.S. I've also seen many longer distance riders do the shorter distances
also. Maybe they have an injury or their horse has one and they are coming
back slowly. Maybe it's a terrifically hot day and they want to take it
easy on their horse. I don't know, but it seems that many do drop down in
distance now and then for whatever reason. I don't see anyone getting on
their case for doing so.
chris paus & star (let's go mom)
At 01:00 AM 1/28/98 EST, PEGGASIS wrote:
>I've read lots of LD riders say they can't condition for a 50. When I started
>endurance I had two Quarter Horses. Not the A-1 type of endurance horse, so I
>just entered 50's anyway and used the LSD of the 50 miles to condition my
>horses. I could only ride one day a week, but it was in the mountains. My
>little un-conditioned quarter horses racked up 765 miles, they enjoyed the
>trails and camping out and the extra care they recieved; while giving
myself a
>true sense of horsemanship, knowing we did it. If you really have the Heart
>for this Sport, then go for it. It's not all about competing.....it's you,
>your horse and the challenge of the trail, use it to reach your own goals,
>don't say I can't!
>
>Just my 2 cents worth.
>Peggie Norton
>Las Vegas Distance Riders
>
>
>
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From: Trishmare <Trishmare@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8cc072be.34cf392f@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:57:02 EST
To: jlong@mti.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: The Limited Distance Dilemma
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In a message dated 98-01-27 17:55:02 EST, you write:
<< And here's where I have a real problem with that. If they want
"recognition" for having ridden a limited distance, OK. But if they
want "recognition" for having completed an ENDURANCE ride when they
were either unable or unwilling to do so, that is not OK. >>
Here! Here! I second this motion!!!!
Trish & "pretty David" (who thus far thinks 15 miles is far . . . boy is HE in
for a surprise!<g>)
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:19:42 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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Subject: Re: Does anyone have the results of the FLORIDA 100 ?
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Hi Nora,
I was over there on Fri. helping with PRs..(1st day of 100); there were
only 18 entered in the 100..Carol Clarke injured herself pretty severe-
ly when she fell off a bucket she was standing on to tie something up
high...torn ligament in her right leg!...so then there were 17 that
started the 100....Carol had her friend that was with her, whose horse
was not cleared to start, ride HER horse, Gandolf, in the 60 mile ride;
he finished 2nd, so not all was lost for Carol!
Only about 15 or 16 started in the 60 mi. ride...and Eileen Cornwell was
the only driver in the 60 mi. drive....Eileen had some bad luck at mile
13..horse spooked, put his back out, and she was out of the game....such
a valient effort, by a valient lady...she had a HORRIBLE trip up having
gotten stuck in the mud before even leaving home as she was picking up
Marion Hawthorne...they had had torrential rain fall all morning .....
wasn't her trip.
That's all I know..I'm awaiting more info too..I could only stay Fri.
as I needed to get back to begin running mileage on our trail for the
Fl. Endurance Classic....I had posted Carol C. re: her injury and Eileen
for something else, and they posted me back with the bit of info from
above.
Oh yes! Barbara Madill also posted...she had a very good ride (100) on
her young gelding and was 1st in Middleweight!
Now, that's all I know as far as results...Steve Rojeck had sent the
horse that won it last year.."Kiddo"..their rider/crew person P.J.Janus
(?) was riding...Winkie and Matthew Mackay-Smith were there too (100).
That's all I know...I'll get back with you through ridecamp if I hear
personally.
Deena~
Inverness, Fl.
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Subject: Re: Can't condition for a 50?
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so I
just entered 50's anyway and used the LSD of the 50 miles to condition
my
horses. I could only ride one day a week, but it was in the mountains.
I can definitely relate to only riding one day a week......but I have to
ask....how did YOU make the 50? I'd feel like hamburger!
tracy
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:37:48 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801281437.GAA15951@fsr.com>
Subject: Re: Can't condition for a 50?
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Dave Bennett
Email: benamil@juno.com
I guess that is what I meant about just starting a 50 and see how it
would go.
The longer of the training rides we do at home are over 20 miles so the
25's we
did were no big challenge to my horse. The short training rides are 5
-7 miles
and done more often. I admit that the first 12 miles of the
first 25 on my green horse was a lot of work. He thought it was
absolutely
terrible for all those horses to go galloping off and leaving us while
we just
continued at a trot! But, I insisted that we would ride our own ride
and it got
better fast. The important thing to me was that my horse learned
something
about what happens at rides, vet checks, camping with many other horses
around, and so on. So, they were valuable and served their purpose.
For me, they were the second and third 25-mile rides I had done - ever.
My
other endurance horse started his career doing slow 50's. At the end
of these
25's I found myself thinking "Is that all there is?" I felt that I
really had not
finished my ride day.
I think that what most new riders and their horses do not know is how to
pace
at a ride. It takes some experience - gained in some way - to learn
that one
cannot blow it out at the start of a 50 and expect to finish. I am not
at all sure
that the fast 25's that I see in my area provide the opportunity to
learn this,
though. They just go too fast and it is too easy for one to get caught
up in the
crowd. One help to me in riding my own ride when things start getting
a little
crazy is to say to myself "IF". That reminds me of Rudyard Kipling's
poem
that starts,
"If you can keep your head when all others about you are losing
theirs..."
Dave Bennett
Chickamauga, Georgia
benamil@juno.com
Deanne said>
>Walked Gabe out to loosen him up........after he had just done 25 MILES!
>Then the
>50's came in for the lunch stop and Gabe went bannanas trying to follow.
>Couldn't
>keep him from going in circles around me on the lead.
>
>Welp.......that's all I needed to convince me that the next ride was
>gonna be a
>50. (two beers later....friends come in)
>
>It really doesn't take any more preparation for a 50. You need to pack
>the same
>stuff......take the same amount of time off.....drive the same
>distance.......you
>just get to ride for a little longer! It's great! Go for it!
>
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:08:39 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: Can't condition for a 50?
>
>As an aside, I had a mare who had only done 25 & 30 mile rides. The
>first ride with me, she got into the mid-point vet check at 28 miles and
>refused to leave. She had done "her" ride and was ready to quit!
>Nothing wrong, not tired, just a "I'm finished" attitude. I could see
>this as a potential obstacle for moving up to another distance if the
>horse got very set in her ways.
>
I did too many 25 mile rides with Misty before I did a 50. I had the same
problem on my first 50. There is nothing worse than a belligerent female, I
mean mare, with an attitude. I had to jog out of camp leading her for
about a mile. Then I got on and we galloped off and finished in fine
shape. So by doing a lot of 25's you are trained the horse that 25 is it.
With smart horses they think that it is party time after 25. I'll never
repeat that mistake. From now on, one or two 25's for brain training and
then, if they are not ready to do a 50, I'll go help.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:13:12 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Betsy O'Shea" <betsy@micoks.net>
Subject: Sewing
I want to make some wraps for my horse which are the kind that have some
sort of crystals put into compartments in the wraps.. The crystals expand
in cold water, so this will keep the horses legs cool for several hours.
They are like the ice wraps only the crystals are used instead of the ice.
It is the same stuff that is put in neck bands for people to keep them cool
in the summer. Does anyone know what these crystals are called and where to
get them?
Betsy O'Shea and Afterglow
Paola, Kansas
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:05:52 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Subject: Convention?
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welllll, here it is Wednesday, and not a single convention
post.......hmmmmm, is everyone in a post-buying stupor? <G>
Anyone have any notes/comments about the great lectures?
Us pathetic sorts who were unable to go would love to hear!
tracy
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:02:29 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Subject: SR Saddle web site
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SR web site is: http://www.nhid.com/sr-saddleco/
Phone # is 541 317 0135
m (HELO LOCALNAME) (208.217.187.41)
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:02:29 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:23:56 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
Organization: Zebella Anatolians
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Subject: Re: Hobbles
References: <de5cfefe.34cec131@aol.com>
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Arabryder wrote:
>
> I'd be very careful about using hobbles at rides - or probably not at all. A
> couple of summers ago, we were on a back country campout. Three of our seven
> horses were hobbled. Two of the horses were loose - just grazing. Suddenly,
> they ALL decided to take off down the trail at a fast gallop, including the
> hobbled horses.
>
That's why alot of packers use 3 way hobbles....they can't run in those.
Another trick is to leave the alpha horses picketed or staked while the
less dominate horses are hobbled, they usually won't leave the leaders.
I wouldn't think hobbling at a ride would be a good idea....they can
still wander around quite aways....be a bummer to have a mile hike
before your ride at 6 am!
tracy
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To: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: What IS Endurance?
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject WAS Re: 25 mile ride personal survey.
On Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:24:47 -0700 you wrote:
>The original idea was "endurance", the use of a horse over what were
usually considered >"normal" distances and over terrain not usually
traveled. While the original endurance >"Trials" put on by the US Army were
over roads and trails they were out of the "normal" >in the horse had to
carry over 200 pounds, do 60 miles a day, go for five days and then >be fit
to continue on. And this with no support crews , motor homes etc.(and you
think >you do endurance). This is the concept of endurance to me not run
like hell for 25 >miles and call myself a winner. Endurance riding is that,
ENDURANCE AND PERSEVERANCE >MILE AFTER MILE DAY AFTER DAY AND YEAR AFTER YEAR.
Exactly! And if my memory (of articles on the subject -- I WASN'T
around in the 20's) serves me, what the horses ate was measured to determine
the most efficient animals -- they were weighed to determine percentage of
weight lost, etc.
The East Coast Hundred Mile Rides (3 - Day -- nominally
"competitive" because the variable is condition, not speed) weighed horses
at the GMHA (Vermont) and New York 100's until late 70's and mid 80's.
Riders had to offer their horses water before weighing to prevent any
attempt to withold water to affect before and after ride differences. (I
WAS around and competing on those rides).
My point is that perhaps AERC should conduct LONGER rides with the
same structure as the L.D. (first to recover to parameters -- easy to award
division placings per vet card). Perhaps competitors should have to work
their way up to competitions where speed is the variable.
I question why the 100 mile one day distance is so esteemed. In the
days of our mounted (on equines) cavalry, the preservation of the horse
would have been paramount to the trooper. A horse can go on and on and on
at 50 - 60 mile per day distances at 6-8 MPH and have a lot of oomph left
for a skirmish at day's end. I question whether many horses could keep
doing 100 miles a day for many days.
Another question I have is about the interpretation of "to finish is
to win". I'd like that amended to "to finish a horse EAGER to continue is
to win."
When I started "Endurance" riding (1965) there WERE no shorter rides
than 100's here in the East. (Sorry I don't know when AERC started). One
had to have a sponsor to enter rides.
I think it sad that riders think they can't do longer distances than
one day 25's, 30's, 50's. YES, I feel after 40 miles that I'm absolutely
nuts (actually, that feeling starts about 10 miles out), that there's no way
I'll want to ride the next day's 40. Then I get on the trail that second day
and find that two or three years of 5 - 6 miles 4 - 5 times a week of "due
dilligence" has produced a horse asking to move on, with the horse's numbers
getting better and better. Then the "80 Mile high" sets in!!
Finally, I start the final 20 deciding that the third day of 3 Day
100's and grandparenting are really quite alike --- makes all the rest of it
worth while!!
Barbara (and 8 year old Zaim -- that Florida sand wasn't so bad, and it was
FUN passing horses at the vet check! Do I really HAVE to stay in 3 day
100's the rest of this year??)
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:31:00 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Suspended or hammock seat saddles
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Those saddles you saw are not uncommon today,and are pretty much
the original type from Genghis Khan on up to the present day.Refered to
as "Universal Pattern" and "Trooper",they pose several advantages over
any solid or "ground" seat design.In particular, they present the builder
with the option of using a pivoting side bar,although not many have
exercised this option in recent years.Assembled in a "seperate component"
format,they allow a fussy rider almost limitless options for rigging and
stirrup hanger modification,and they are very unlikely to sore a horse's
back.Recent Asian trooper saddles that have appeared on the marketshould
not be considered as representative examples of the type,except in
general layout.McClellan saddles are NOT suspended seat "troopers".The
best one on the market today are the Tucker,the Christie,and the Tarpin
Hill,which sell for about half what they should,at about $800.They all
share several design flaws in rigging which anyone could re-arrange in an
evening's work.They will work with you on acustom "tree",although the
term tree really doesn't apply in the case of a Universal Pattern
Trooper.These saddles are indestructible. They usually weigh about 25
lbs.,but that is including stirrups.I reccomend the unpadded seat.Re the
"hammock":No,the leather wont stretch/settle downwards very much,for
slung beneath it is a parallel layer of "straining web",nylon in the
modern day versions.A trooper may or may not be for you,but if you are a
student of saddles(and who is this group isn't)you'll find them
interesting and thought provoking.Tucker makes an "endurance" model
also,but it isn't a trooper as such.
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From: "Amber Knight" <ambrnite@fix.net>
To: <zebella@idt.net>, "Truman Prevatt" <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: EP-Las Cruces results?? Feed question
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:04:15 -0600
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Purina Mills has a productcalled Complete Advantage. It is a great feed for
Endurance Horses and was developed as a dust free complete feed for race
horses with dust allergys and heaves. It contains 12.5% Protein,3.5% Fat,
and12.5% Fiber. It is beet pulp based, with a complete vitimin & mineral
package. It can be fed as a complete feed or as a supplement to good hay or
pasture. If you are looking for a higher fat product they have a product
called Strategy that is 14% Protein, 6% Fat & 8% Fiber.It is ment to bee
fed as a supplement. Both products are designed to be performance feeds and
several of my friends have had great sucess with both products putting
weight on hard keepers, neither feed makes horses "High" when fed properly
which is also a great feature.
----------
> From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
> To: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
> Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: EP-Las Cruces results?? Feed question
> Date: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 5:57 PM
>
> Truman Prevatt wrote: The Farr rep told me they
> > retrofitted a mill somewhere in the western states (at least west of
the
> > Mississippi) to fill the feed. It is good and I reccomend it. It's
called
> > Legacy. Their other feed are also good. The are a lot more consistant
> > than most of the other brands I have tried.
> >
>
> Thanks for the info Truman, I will have to check again. I'm in AZ, and
> when I asked my Nuterna dealer about getting the Legacy, they told me it
> was unavailable.
>
> Purina has something similar called Complete Advantage. I believe the
> fat content is a bit lower though.
>
> tracy
>
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <lb@mail.nismat.org>
From: "Beth Glace" <lb@nismat.org>
Organization: NISMAT
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:34:51 +0000
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Subject: what do we call "endurance"
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> I have no doubt that a horse who specializes in shorter races might
> beat a good 100's horse. I know that a good Quarter Horse can blow
> my 100 mile horse off the trail for 100 yards. I just thought we
> were talking about endurance racing, not just racing. I just can't
> accept the fact that the winners of a wide open 25 mile race are
> telling me they don't have time to train for 50. They obviously
> already have.
>
> Angie
What's the cut off for endurance? If you are out there
for more that 4/5/6/8/10 hours it's endurance? By definition,
endurance sports are those that rely on type 2 fibers, and on an
ability to supply the cells with oxygen [Endurance Sport, Astrand et
al 92] or as the ability to resist fatigue [Wilmore], or as the
ability of muscle to contract at a submaximal level over a period of
time [American College of Sports Medicine]. Take your choice of any of
the above, exercise for 2-3 hours would have to be considered
endurance and is not the equivalent of the few seconds it takes your
Quarter horse sprinter. if we want to call only 100s " true"
endurance, thats fine. Its arbitrary but if that's what most
competitors want so be it.
I can't say why some people with fit horses don't do 50s; maybe
they are just not interested in being out there that long. Maybe
they left their dogs in the trailer. Who knows. I just don't
think anyone should look down on those that excel at the shorter
events. If they are bringing in a horse that meets the criteria and
they haven't been reckless on the trail, why should anyone belittle
their choice of distance? If most others are using the ride for
training purposes only why would they care who came in first or
whether that horse was fit enough to do a longer event? My only
point here is that we should all respect one another's goals and
encourage good performances, and good horsemanship, at any of the
distance offered. In the example you gave of a woman with a fit
horse that "won" the 25 I think you should remember sportsmanship.
Did she ride smartly? Is her horse fit? Met the criteria? Paid her
fee? Did she interfere in any way with others? Hmmm....Sounds like
you should walk up to her, look her in the eye, shake her hand and
say "nice ride, your horse looks great. You obviously are doing
something you both enjoy and doing it well. " Not "you did well
here, so go do something else." We should be able to find it in our
hearts to encourage one another if we are complying with all the
rules. It can only make the sport stronger.
Beth
>
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <ba9d230c.34cf5db9@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:32:55 EST
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 25 miler non-AERCs do pay!
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In a message dated 98-01-28 00:05:44 EST, PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com writes:
<< Sorry, I don't know who wrote the above, but non-AERC members doing
25 miles pay an extra $10 to ride, so please clarify the above
statement. Or is this not true in all rides / regions? Question: Now
that I'm a new AERC member, I shouldn't have to pay that extra $10 when
I do an LD ride...correct? >>
1. It is my understanding that LD riders do NOT have to pay the non-member
fee.
2. You can subscribe to AERC News without being a member.
Teddy
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Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:37:41 -0600
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:37:40 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Beth Glace <lb@nismat.org>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: what do we call "endurance"
In-Reply-To: <199801281634.LAA13649@voon.nismat.org>
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> think anyone should look down on those that excel at the shorter
> events. If they are bringing in a horse that meets the criteria and
> they haven't been reckless on the trail, why should anyone belittle
> their choice of distance? If most others are using the ride for
I think that some folks reading these posts are misinterpreting what's
being said and going too far the other way. I believe that this thread is
discussing whether a 25 should be recognized, sanctioned, awarded,
honored, etc. as an "endurance ride" the same way 50s and 100s are. I
haven't picked up on any posts on this thread which are "belittling" or
"looking down on" people who choose to ride only LD, and that is certainly
not what I was implying when I posted my own thoughts.
There's a medium ground between belittling someone for riding a 25 and
honoring someone for riding a 25, and I think that the LD program, as is,
strikes this happy medium.
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Convention?
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:41:24 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d65ebc.3066225@mail.mti.net>
References: <34CF4950.4FB9@idt.net>
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On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:05:52 -0700, Zebella <zebella@idt.net> wrote:
>welllll, here it is Wednesday, and not a single convention
>post.......hmmmmm, is everyone in a post-buying stupor? <G>
I had the best time since the Atlanta snow party. The Friday night
dance was one of the best ever. Becky Hart made a wonderful talk when
she accepted Rio's Ten Thousand Mile Medallion.
Seeing so many old friends was the best part.
>Anyone have any notes/comments about the great lectures?
Unfortanately, I didn't get to many of those, though from what I hear
they were filled with good info, as usual. I scarfed up lots of good
stuff from the trade show, though!
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: Tivers <Tivers@aol.com>
Message-ID: <6a5e1280.34cf622b@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:51:52 EST
To: zebella@idt.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: The great Molasses debate
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In a message dated 98-01-28 01:35:08 EST, zebella@idt.net writes:
<< I cannot help but wonder if some of the fear of feeding molasses to
endurance horses has to do with the misconception that feeding molasses
is like giving a candy bar and reinforcing the overwillingness of an
incredibly fit horse to go. Actually, what may be thought of as an
effect of molasses may simply be an effect of grain feeding (sugar and
starch). If you have heard other theories as to why molasses might be
bad for an endurance horse, I would be interested in hearing them.
Kathleen Crandell, PhD
Equine Nutritionist
Kentucky Equine Research
>>
Very bright Nutritionist. Can't argue with anything she said. Note that
Kentucky Equine Research is in the "applied research" area--making things work
and coming up with solutions. That's where the most accurate practical
information will come from.
ti
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:06:34 -0500
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Subject: SADDLE FOR SALE
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PLEASE SEE AD UNDER MARKET, SADDLES FOR SALE.
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Message-ID: <34CF6C38.2E13@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:34:48 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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Subject: ok..we don't pay! oops! <g>
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Oops, guess I messed that one up. I was also reminded I got a refund
from the ride I did pay the extra $10 for...and just really didn't pay
attention to the others. Give me the amount, I pay, ok, no problem.
And you know what...why don't the 25'ers get charged that non AERC fee?
The 50 milers do, right? And since I signed up last for a 50 I paid the
fee (helping to mix up my non-detail oriented brain), and I figured this
year I'd do more 50's so I might as well join.
Thanks for clearing it up. Go ahead, charge, I'll pay.
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab)...the expensive habit...
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:14:32 GMT
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: camelot@fascination.com (Cris Potmesil)
Subject: Re: SR Saddle web site
X-Mailer: <PC Eudora Version 1.4>
Are you positive about this URL?? I've been trying all morning and
keep getting a "no DNS entry" error.
Cris
Green River, Wyo.
camelot@fascination.com
>SR web site is: http://www.nhid.com/sr-saddleco/
> Phone # is 541 317 0135
>
>
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801281822.LAA20475@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Magic Water Crystals
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:22:11 MST
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2]
Magic Water Crystals, are what I call them. They do have
a real name. You can usually find them at any gardening
store.
Be aware, a teaspoon of dry crystals will turn into several cups
of wet crystals. Try placing the dry crystals in a large container,
add water, and wait several hours. Do not put a bunch of crystals
into a small area and wet them. You'll end up with burst seams.
I am not sure that making leg wraps with the crystals will cool
the horse off that much. In using the neckerchiefs on myself,
I find that at first it feels good, then the entire thing gets
too warm.
--
Wendy
\|/
/\ -O-
/**\ /|\
/****\ /\
/ \ /**\ Here there be dragons
/ /\ / \ /\ /\ /\ /\ /\/\/\ /\
/ / \ / \ / \/\/ \/ \ /\/ \/\ /\ /\/ / / \/ \
/ / \/ /\ \ / \ \ / \/ / / \/ \/ \ / \ \
/ / \/ \/\ \ / \ / / \
__/__/_______/___/__\___\__________________________________________________
Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
Hewlett-Packard Company e-mail: wendy@fc.hp.com
Mail Stop A2-5UB3 Telnet: 229-2182 (898-2182 as of Nov 1.)
3404 E. Harmony Rd. AT&T: (970) 229-2182 (898-2182)
Fort Collins, CO, 80528-9599 FAX: (970) 229-2038 (898-2038)
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Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:39:43 -0800 (PST)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:39:39 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
cc: Endurance List <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: What vet checks are for (was:Completion times)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980118195143.008e5eb0@netsrq.com>
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On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, Truman Prevatt wrote:
> >> _I_ would like to dispel the notion that we have vet checks at endurance
> >> rides so that horses can rest. This assumes that ride managers and/or
> >> vets are responsible for resting our horses. As far as I am concerned,
> >> vet checks are so that the vets can inspect the horses to confirm that
> >> they are "fit to continue."
>
> That's probably a function of the ride manager and the vets. I do know
> that at my ride, one of the first things that I hash out with the vets is
> the hold times. One of the prime considerations is ample time for rest for
> the horses to recover. If it is going to be a hot/humid day we will allow
> extra time. If it is going to be cold and windy we will most likely cut
> the hold time to minimize the prospect of the horses getting stiff.
>
> So like all general statements, including this one, the above is clearly
> false.
The general statement that I make is "vet check are so that vets can check
the horses" if at your ride you and the head vet schedule and place your
vet checks so that the horses will have "ample time for rest" then you and
the vet are over-stepping your bounds. It is the rider's responsibility
to rest his/her own horse.
I do not deny that many ride managers and head vets do this at many rides.
I just contend that such a course of action is inappropriate.
To stop the horses so they can be properly checked is within the
responsibility of ride officials. To stop the horses because you think
that they need to be stopped to rest is not. Riders can and should stop
their own damn horses (and ride managers should not deceive the riders
into thinking that because they have scheduled the vet checks where THEY
think that horses need to rest, it is no longer the responsiblity of the
rider to do that him/herself). And riders who have prepared and
conditioned their horses well enough that they don't need to rest as much
should not be stopped to rest just because the ride manager and the head
vet think its a good place. If vet checks are used in this way, vet
checks provide an unfair advantage to lesser prepared horses.
And I don't buy that bull shit that "in the heat of competition" riders
will not have the nous to know that they need to rest their horses. In
the heat of competition, such riders will over-ride their horses anyway
even if there are vet checks along the way to make everybody stop.
I have been to many rides with differing difficulties with differing
numbers of vet checks (which more often than not are a function of
accessibility and availability of vet staff than anything else) and have
seen no indication that the placement of vet checks and scheduling of hold
times has any effect on whether horses get over-ridden or not.
This does not mean that ride management is not allowed to provide
water/food stops along the way where riders may choose to stop and
provision their horses.
It is, I think, for this reason that I am developing a strong preference
for multi-day rides. All the ones that I have been to have one vet check
somewhere around the middle (if it can be fit in there) with other
convenient places (either placed there by ride management, or just
naturally a part of the trail) where you can stop for food/water/whatever
if you feel the need. And a very strong inclination on the part of riders
to ride their horse so that it is "fit to continue" at the end (because
generally speaking it needs to be if it is going to go again the next
day), and a very strong inclination on the part of the vet/s to allow the
riders to manage their horses as they see fit.
I still remember the very first multi-day ride I went to and the head vet
(the Duck) saying at the pre-ride meeting, "I assume that all of you here
have ridden your horses out on the trail, NOT at an endurance ride." (i.e.
not under veterinary control, and therefore we ARE capable of determining
the fitness of our horses and keep them out of trouble) and letting us
know, in no uncertain terms that it was our reponsibility to keep our own
horses out of trouble. He also went on to let us know that the nearest
veterinary hospital was over 150 miles away...and left us to understand
the implications of this ourselves.
Everybody understood this just fine, and no horses got into trouble (as is
the case at most endurance rides). And the riders rested and fed their
horses as the opportunity presented itself...even if there wasn't a vet
check there to "force" the horses to stop. And people paced their horses
according to their fitness levels, not according to ride management's
and/or the vet's preconceived notion of how the horses ought to be paced.
I'm not saying that ride managers and vets don't do this, just that they
shouldn't. Vet checks should be placed at the best place/s for the vets
to check the horses, not at the best places for the horses to rest. Ride
management can put "rest stops" at the best places for horses to rest and
give riders the option (not requirement) to rest/refuel their horses
there.
It may be that the vet check can/does serve both purposes, and ride
managers can/should consider this when laying out the course. However,
resting the horses should not be a primary consideration in the laying out
of vet checks, and if the horses don't need to be checked at that place
then ride managers should not put a vet check there, no matter how sure
they are that all horses OUGHT to rest there.
That said, I am also of the opinion that the post-ride vet check ought to
be much more stringent and that horses that are not "fit to continue"
ought not be given completions. (This would go much further in reducing
the "heat of competition" pushing of horses by their riders than forcing
unnecessary rest on all the riders.)
On the first day of the Outlaw Trail (55 miles) the vet check is at ~mile
45 (the first access that the vets have). This does not mean, nor does
anybody take it to mean that the horses don't need to rest before that.
There are plenty of places along the way where you can rest your horse:
meadows, lakes, water crossings, patches of grass, flat areas in the
middle of a climb. DIfferent riders rest their horses differently along
the way to the first vet check...as needed. This is as it should be.
No more horses get into trouble or are under rested on the first day of
the Outlaw trail than at any other endurance ride (less so, in fact, than
it seems at rides with more mandatory rests) I have been to, and it isn't
because the first day of the Outlaw Trail is an easy ride, you climb up
over 11.5 thousand feet. It is because, I contend, that riders are
responsible for resting their own horses and they know it (to paraphrase
Doc Hansen, the head vet of the ride the first time I went there: if the
horse doesn't come "back" to the first vet check under its own steam, that
horse is NOT coming back).
kat
Orange County, Calif.
rides.
I just contend that such a course of action is inappropriate.
To stop the horses so they can be properly checked is within the
responsibility of ride officials. To stop the horses because you think
that they need to be stopped to rest is not. Riders can and should stop
their own damn horses (and ride managers should not deceive the riders
into thinking that because they have scheduled the vet checks where THEY
think that horses need to 6550 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000010421 06463676137 0013121 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from kira.ici.net (kira.ici.net [207.180.0.37]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA02064 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:43:38 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:41:21 -0500 (EST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
Subject: Strange Blood Chemistry
The importance of bloodwork was one of the topics emphasized at
last week's AERC convention, particularly in the talk given by
research veterinarian Jeannie Waldron. However, Waldron concentrated
only on the two enzymes that seem to be markers for tying up (SGOT and
CPK) and on Chloride levels for electrolytes. I've got a strange,
unrelated, blood anomaly that I'd like to get some discussion on.
My horse keeps turning up with very elevated potassium levels (7.0-7.3)
in his blood. The first time I had blood taken on him was after a
strenuous session of hill exercise and the vet suggested that I
might have muscle damage and tying up, although no other values
and nothing physical about the horse indicated this. He recommended
taking a "resting" blood test to act as a control. We did that last
week after the horse had been essentially at rest for two weeks with
no exercise but turnout. The *same* elevated potassium level showed up.
This has my vet stumped.
This is an 18 year old Morgan gelding. To all appearances he is
healthy, happy, and vigorous. He is fed approximately 15 pounds
of Canadian mixed timothy hay per day, plus two 14 oz coffee cans
of Purina Equine Senior. The only supplement is 1,000 IUs per day of
Vitamin E which comes in the form of Horse Health Products'
Vita E Powder, which is mixed in to "Grain Products, Calcium
Carbonate, Vitamin E Supplement, Propionic and Acetic Acids
(Preservatives)." He has a free choice mineral salt block in his
stall that he consumes only slowly, and has not received any electrolyte
supplementation during the period of these tests.
Here is the complete "resting" blood report:
Glucose..............100
Urea Nitrogen.........11
Creatinine...........1.7
Total Protein........6.9
Albumin..............3.6
Bilirubin Total......2.6
Alkaline Phosphatase.106
ALT(SGPT)..............4 (said to be slightly low, vet says insignificant)
AST(SGOT)............185
Cholesterol...........92
Calcium.............12.3
Phosphorous..........2.2
Sodium...............134
Potassium............7.3 (out of a normal range of 2.4 to 4.7)
Chloride.............100
A/G..................1/1
Bun/Creatinine.........6
Globulin.............3.3
Carbon Dioxide........28
Lipase................21
Amylase...............10 (low, normal 25-600, vet says not significant)
Triglycerides.........28
CPK..................128
GGTP..................17
Magnesium............1.7
Anion Gap.............13
Osmolality, calculateed..272 (low, vet says OK, related to high K?)
Hemoglobin..........17.0
Hematocrit..........46.5
WBC..................7.8
RBC.................8.52
MCV...................55
MCH.................20.0 (slightly high, vet says not significant)
MCHC................36.6
Differential Absolute Percentage
Polys 5148 66%
Bands.......0......0%
Lymphs....2496....32%
Monos......156.....2%
EOS..........0.....0%
BASOS........0.....0%
Platelet Est adequate
Anisocytosis slight
My vet's response to this was:
"Mechanisms for Hyperkanemia:
1. Acidosis. Not likely. If acidotic would be after work or very sick
metabolically.
2. Dehydration. No evidence of this.
3. Tissue Damage. Not likely. No wounds. No evidence of tying up.
4. Insulin Deficiency. Not likely. Glucose is normal.
No evidence of hemolysis that the lab noted. Can't explain why based on
good condition of animal and relatively normal bloodwork otherwise."
I'm not going to lose sleep over this since my horse seems healthy
and happy, but it is a mystery that I would like to shed some light on.
Anybody ever see this before and know what it might mean?
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Fuchsia <fuchsia@mhs.mcn.org>
Subject: Hobbles
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 10:42:27 -0800
>That's why alot of packers use 3 way hobbles....they can't run in those.
>
>Another trick is to leave the alpha horses picketed or staked while the
>less dominate horses are hobbled, they usually won't leave the leaders.
>
>
>I wouldn't think hobbling at a ride would be a good idea....they can
>still wander around quite aways....be a bummer to have a mile hike
>before your ride at 6 am!
>
>tracy
Okay, 3 way hobbles are normal front hobbles with a rope to one back foot
hobble, right? Do horses ever get their unhobbled hind tangled in the rope
to the hobbled hind foot? How long can the rope to the hind foot be? body
length (minus neck)?
I think I'll try this out, not at races, tho.
-Fuchsia
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From: RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Message-ID: <fc4a00bf.34cf7d94@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:48:50 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Catalogs
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)
I have been asked for some catalogs on our products.
We do not have a catalog, but do have information and
pictures. Anyone interested in Rump Rugs, one piece
neck and ear warmers, over the helmet warmers,lead
lines hand braided, reins,dog leashes and collars,
blankets made of Polar Fleece,Fancy braided Arabian
show bridles and surcingle with pocket that hold H/M
and watch to free hands after rides.
If you want something made for your horse and you can
design it on paper with measurements we can make it
with Polar Fleece. Contact me at RICMARC@AOL.COM
I will be at the ECTRA banquet a booth.
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1be95c6d.34cf7e25@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 13:51:15 EST
To: Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: More on the FCC and Line Charges for Internet Users:
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Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com)
X-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)
In a message dated 98-01-21 15:10:11 EST, rj@drtavel.com writes:
<< question.
(see
http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Comments/access_reform/samples.html
)
The lady I spoke to, seemed very sympathetic to the internet users cause.
I am not sure that this is a closed issue, yet, though. I have found other
web
sites, posting massages, similar to mine. (see
http://www.atlantainfoguide.com/repeal/htmls/fccregs.html)
I hope that you are right that it is "outdated non-issue". Still, it can't
hurt
to let the FCC see the reaction when an issue like this is even rumored.
300,000 e-mail messages over a rumored non-issue might help to keep them
posted
on where the public stands.
Thanks for your interest.
Gary Pethel
>>
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From: Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Subject: Re: Magic Water Crystals
In-Reply-To: <199801281822.LAA20475@wendy.cnd.hp.com> from Wendy Milner at "Jan 28, 98 11:22:11 am"
To: wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com (Wendy Milner)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:00:49 -0800 (PST)
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp)
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Wendy wrote:
> I am not sure that making leg wraps with the crystals will cool
> the horse off that much. In using the neckerchiefs on myself,
> I find that at first it feels good, then the entire thing gets
> too warm.
I agree here with Wendy - I've used one of those neck things
and you have to rotate it often to keep yourself cool. It
seems to work by evaporative cooling - so if you wrapped the
horse's legs in crystal filled wraps, you might just end up
with moist, warm legs.
Maybe those freezeable gel packs would work better - do they
stay squishy once frozen?
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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From: Marinera <Marinera@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5e69b936.34cf821a@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:08:07 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: 25, 50 & 100 Just do it!
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I was going to keep quiet for awhile, but find it too hard. First of all, if
we all spend as much time on ridecamp as I do, we'll never get around to
training our horses for any length and that will be the end of endurance
riding!!
I would like to encourage riders to be less afraid of moving up to the longer
rides. Hundreds of riders have started out with hundred mile ride as the
first effort. Honest, that is a fact. A 50 is not twice as tough as a 25, a
hundred is not twice as tough as a 50. You can do it. If you are in over
your head, pull at the next vet check. So no harm done except maybe to your
ego, but not the horse. At least then you'll know what you and your horse can
do. Every experienced rider knows that a fast 50 is harder on a horse than an
average 100. So just keep your head screwed on right and at least try.
I would like to add my voice to those of Kim Fue, Joe Long, Bob Morris Ramey,
Peticolas-Stroud, Ann Blankenship, Truman Prevatt, Terry Wooley-Howes, Glenda
Snodgrass, Peggy Norton and many others. Since there are many new members of
ridecamp, and at the risk of being redundant, I am re-posting something I sent
to ridecamp over a year ago. I still feel the same way.
Julie Suhr
Originally posted in Jan. 1997.
Maybe some background on limited distance rides is in order. Endurance riding
was flourishing before the advent of 25 LD rides and there are hundreds of
people out there who have never done a limited distance ride. Nobody
fought the concept of limited distance rides more than I did originally and
few are in favor of it as much as I am now. My antagonism was that when I
started endurance riding there was one ride only..the Tevis Cup Ride. There
was no one to go to for advice except Wendell Robie who said "keep them lean
and have a wet saddle blanket in the barn at night". And so I overrode and
underfed. There were no electrolytes, fanny packs, heart monitors or other
of the accouterments that we consider so necessary today and which I depend
on totally. The pulse requirement was 72. Both the horse and I sank
miserably at the first vet check on our maiden voyage. I learned that the
backbone of the Sierra was more formidable than the golf course I trained
around. I learned that I was not fit and I learned that I was riding the
wrong breed. Help came in the form of a horse loaned to me that lived at the
end of the Tevis trail, was trained on the trail and it was a walk in the
park. And I was hooked. Hooked to the point where I could not wait a whole
year for the Tevis Ride to come back (still the only ride, remember). And so
in 1967 I started the Castle Rock Challenge Ride..the oldest 50 miler in the
U.S. The Auburn people poo pooed a little ride of fifty miles, but I was
trying to draw on a local group and they simply were not as turned on as I by
the challenge of a 100 miler. Well, as time went on, many people for
various reasons did not want to go fifty miles, but they wanted to be
endurance riders so the concept of 25 milers arrived upon the scene. For
those of us who egos were for whatever reason somehow tied up with being
"endurance " riders, the thought of others coming along and diluting our
sport was awful. Some ride managers were convinced that they could not make
ends meet without the added income from LD riders. And so LD rides began to
be incorporated into the 50 and 100 mile events, but ONLY after it was
written in the AERC Handbook "that an endurance ride by definition, is not
less than 50 miles". Our fragile egos were preserved and less ambitious
riders had the shorter trail to fulfill their needs. As time went on, I
became a fan of LD rides. I saw the benefits for young new horses, the
introduction to a sport for new riders who could make a personal decision as
to whether to set their goals on higher mileage, stay where they were or
decide it wasn't for them anyway. In addition, it did bail some rides out
financially.
With the risk of alienating some, which I regret, 25 miles does not require a
tremendous amount of training and its participants have not really proven a
whole lot. I can swim, but I am not an Olympic swimmer. I can jog, but I am
not a marathon runner. I do not think this makes me a lesser person. It
means that in these particular fields I am not a shining star. But I can
ride fifty or a hundred miles and this does make me an endurance rider. It
means that I have done my home work and I have had personal aspirations.
There is another category of riders.... those who because of personal
problems, physical disabilities, time restraints or other reasons cannot opt
for the longer distances but they love their horses, they love the trails,
they want to be a part of the whole scene. And so we have 25 milers and
everyone should be happy. I realize that I, sooner than 99 percent of the
people in this sport, will be forced to cut back to 25 milers. (I just seem
to pre-date most of the people riding). When that time comes, I hope that
God will give me the grace to accept the fact that I am no longer an
endurance rider, I am an ex-endurance rider. (Hey, if Joe Montana can be an
ex-football player, I guess I can be an ex-endurance rider). I watched my
wonderful Gazal's dam at age 25 do her first LD ride with an 8 year old on
her back. That didn't make either of them an endurance horse or an endurance
rider, but, boy, were we proud. One of the best horseman I have ever known,
(now gone) could not have ridden 25 miles due to a disability. My admiration
for
him was greater than for any of my 100 mile cohorts. No, he was not an
endurance rider in my book but he ranks higher in my mind than any that are.
So let's each find our place in the sun and be happy that we can be out there
at all..regardless of our chosen distance.
und. I learned that I was not fit and I learned that I was riding the
wrong breed. Help came in the form of a horse loaned to me that lived at the
end of the Tevis trail, was trained on the trail and it was a walk in the
park. And I was hooked. Hooked to the point where I could not wait a whole
year for the Tevis Ride to co6556 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003731 06463705504 0013124 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.calweb.com (mail.calweb.com [208.131.56.11]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA07518 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:47:08 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 11:46:11 -0800
From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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To: Endurance list <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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Barbara Madill wrote:
> I question why the 100 mile one day distance is so esteemed. In the
> days of our mounted (on equines) cavalry, the preservation of the horse
> would have been paramount to the trooper. A horse can go on and on and on
> at 50 - 60 mile per day distances at 6-8 MPH and have a lot of oomph left
> for a skirmish at day's end. I question whether many horses could keep
> doing 100 miles a day for many days.
I was thinking about this last night - with regard to the Iditarod
1000+ mile sled-dog race in Alaska, and how it compares with horse
endurance riding.
I s'pose one of the main differences is that you get to start with
20 dogs and can drop them off along the way, if they injure themselves -
it's not like you can leave your horse's lame leg at the vet check
and carry on...
But apart from the Pony Express (St Joseph to Sacramento), are there
any other loooooong endurance rides?
--
**************************************************************
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
**************************************************************
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Reply-To: <sumralls@gateway.net>
From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <lb@nismat.org>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Stepchildren and also-rans
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:30:46 -0500
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Beth Glace wrote in comparing human runners/marathoners to 25 or 50/100
mile horses.
In response:
I'm no physiologist, but I must say that in my opinion, comparing human
runners and horse runners is in no way fair. Horses are much more fragile
creatures. Humans have the intelligence to look after themselves. Horses
depend on their human riders to look after them.
I think it's not fair for one group to act superior to another group. But
I must say that Truman Prevatt was right on target when he talked about
speed being the horse's worst enemy. Of course, it's not only 25-milers
who can ride too fast. But like him I have seen 25-milers blow out their
horses on the first loop, only to have them peeing coffee. And what's
worse is that once when this happened, the owner acted as if he could care
less. He wants to ride fast, he will ride fast, and he has metabolic
trouble consistently. This is completely unacceptable. And that goes not
only for 25-ers who do that but for anyone, 50-miler or 100-miler. It just
seems that you have many less hot-doggers in the higher mile races because
they are much more challenging and require much more skill than the 25s.
The truth of the matter is, those individual riders who like to blow it
out will not have a horse left to become a 50 or 100-miler. The horse's
legs simply won't last (not to mention threat of death in metabolic
breakdown). I believe that's why less hot-dogging is seen in the upper
levels. These people have learned to take care of their horses, not just
live for the glory of the moment.
Now, I'm certainly not knocking competing in 25-mile rides. I have only
done 25s and 50s simply because 100 is too big a jump for me in the present
state my life is in (child, school, etc.). I thought the 50s were more
enjoyable because they were more of a challenge to me and my horse, and I
felt a great deal of accomplishment being able to successfully complete
50s. (I personally ride to complete, not to win, though I have won one 25
by being the first to reached require pulse rate). We just must all
remember that each person has only so much they can do in the state THEIR
life is in. So if they can only do 25s, so be it.
I do agree with Angie McGhee, though, that if you're consistently winning
25s, do yourself and your horse a favor. Try a 50. You CAN do it. You'll
be glad you did.
One last word: Let's not completely alienate 25-milers. After all, many
of them do go on to become our 50 and 100-milers.
By the way, Angie, congratulations on yours and Kaboot's first 100. Way
to go! (I've been out of the loop for a while)
Lori Sumrall
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>, "Betsy O'Shea" <betsy@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Sewing
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:21:44 +0200
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Hi Betsy,
Im not sure what the crystals are called or where you can buy them loose,
but Pam Burton brought out something similar for me last year when she rode
our trails. Its called " TECHNI ICE " The crystals are in little
compartments in a plastick sheet. You dunk the whole thing in water and it
gets really cold. You can also put it in the microwave and heat it up. Im
sure if Pam is lurking she will respond, if not ill get her to call you.
Happy Trails,
Rob & Kathy.
http://196.7.177.40/aht/
----------
> From: Betsy O'Shea <betsy@micoks.net>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Sewing
> Date: 28 January 1998 04:13
>
> I want to make some wraps for my horse which are the kind that have some
> sort of crystals put into compartments in the wraps.. The crystals
expand
> in cold water, so this will keep the horses legs cool for several hours.
> They are like the ice wraps only the crystals are used instead of the
ice.
> It is the same stuff that is put in neck bands for people to keep them
cool
> in the summer. Does anyone know what these crystals are called and where
to
> get them?
> Betsy O'Shea and Afterglow
> Paola, Kansas
>
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:02:27 -0600 (CST)
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Convention?
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Joe and all the other left overs from the convention......I think we are
all brain dead after having so much fun. There may be a lets wait and see
factor out there on some of the suggestions given to the board. Jerry
Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing JABASK KNIGHT
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:04:16 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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To: "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: stirrups ...things I've learned./Italian Trooper?
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Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
> I saw the SR saddle at the convention. The workmanship was beautiful.
> Don't know about the specifics, the Zes saddle looked strange. In the
> photos it looks like my Express, but it was actually sort of a tree with
> a big leather slip cover, totally removable. There was an Italian made
> saddle with a very funky set up, the seat was sort of suspended, like a
> trapoline, the craftmanship was beautiful, but they didn't seem to know a
> thing about trees, (This WILL fit all horses!) I really hate to see how
> everybody turned on the Ortho-flex people. It's a shame to not see them
> at the trade show. Looking at some of the craftmanship in the
> "experimental" models made the Ortho Flex look awfully good, and I think
> we should all be thankful to them for starting the "let's make a better
> mousetrap" mentality popular. I think a lot of folks just thought they
> got big for their britches, but looking at the prices on the Italian
> saddle ($2200), they don't seem as out of line.
> Back to the subjectr, Steve Ray seemed like a nice guy, and his saddle
> looked like quality stuff.
>
> Angie McGhee, who likes her Ortho-flex and always got great service from
> the company.
>
> On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:54:07 -0600 (CST) PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY
> PRICE) writes:
> >In a previous post, I mentioned that Trail Blazer's article
> >(Jan/Feb98)
> >THE DYNAMICS OF SADDLE DESIGN & FIT, the author states "....the
> >mechanics of english trees require that the stirrups must be hung from
> >
> >the front of the bars, as this is the strongest point of the tree.
> >This rules out centered seats when building saddles on English trees."
> >
> >I didn't say I agreed with the TB article about stirrups on english
> >trees being too far forward. It was only a new perspective to me. I
> >am forced to wonder if the author is reflecting some bias, since the
> >article is based on an interview with Steve Ray gonzales who makes and
> >
> >sells SR Saddles. I'm trying out a dressage saddle at the moment (not
> >
> >for distance, just to be able to ride), and I feel very balanced in
> >it,
> >although the author also states that "dressage saddles come close..."
> >Since you are not just standing in the stirrups when posting, but
> >spreading the weight throughout the leg, and stirrup length should be
> >a
> >factor as well, I don't see how the placement of the stirrup is so
> >dramatic that you cannot have a centered seat. I can see where the
> >shape of the seat could influence this, but if your feet are under you
> >
> >aligned with your hip, aren't you pulling the stirrup back too?
> >Unless, of course, you use your stirrup to post and don't distribute
> >any weight in your legs.... ?????
> >
> >I'm learning an english tree cannot be too wide in front or it
> >interfers with posting. (this I read). All brands of saddles use
> >their
> >own measuring system for small, medium, very medium, wide etc...there
> >is no standardization between manufacturer's. Sort of like having to
> >try on jeans before buying to see if they really fit. I'm learning
> >about gullets and restuffing, "A" framed trees and "Oval" trees and
> >how
> >important the contact on the horse's back along the tree is. If only
> >part of the horse is touching the saddle because the gullets are too
> >round, then too much pressure will be applied on the horse's back.
> >
> >Thanks again for the wonderful information sent out regarding saddle
> >usage, types, etc. I'm still looking at Stubben VSD or Survivals. I
> >like the quality of the leather and so far the way the total saddle
> >fits Mystery. Anyone know of used Stubbens, preferable 32cm and 17 to
> >
> >18" seat size please forward them on to me.
> >
> >BTW, since Mystery got a chiropractic adjustment, (and he was very
> >much
> >out of alignment, probably from an injury he had in his pass), he is
> >100% better. Feeling fit and fine, loving this dressage saddle, but
> >acting like a wild beast again since he is living on all this fine
> >pasture. He is moving freely, has improved response to leg and seat,
> >and is trotting out strong...it is very gradifying to realize he is no
> >
> >longer in any pain or discomfort. This list has really been
> >invaluable
> >for the collective advise and perspectives of all, and for allowing me
> >
> >to meet some very, very good friends and riding partners...
> >
> >Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab)
> >Pt.Reyes, CA
> >
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] Re that Italian saddle-was it a"Universal Pattern Trooper"?If it was
,it may have had those pivoting sidebars I mentioned,and this would have
accounted for the rep saying,in all sincerity,"it fits all horses".That's
erroneous,of course,but pivoting side bars do go a long way toward
solving the saddle fit problem.What was the brand name on that
saddle?I've not seen an Italian trooper,but I did recently see a photo
of mounted present day border militia in China or Mongolia or Gazeekistan
or some-such,mounted on-you guessed it-bronze arch slung-seat trooper
saddles,all rather the worse for wear,as were the riders.Tough looking
characters!I'll bet they'd be competitve in Endurance competition.
?
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Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
> I saw the SR saddle at the convention. The workmanship was beautiful.
> Don't know about the specifics, the Zes saddle looked strange. I6561 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005676 06463715215 0013132 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from voon.nismat.org (mail.nismat.org [206.6.66.66]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA11761 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:52:24 -0800 (PST)
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <lb@mail.nismat.org>
From: "Beth Glace" <lb@nismat.org>
Organization: NISMAT
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:05:11 +0000
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Subject: my last comment on this
Reply-to: lb@nismat.org
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this whole discussion has truly kept me from sleeping at night and
done more to turn me off the endurance scene than anything that
has come before so I'll post this last response. No one has
suggested taking unfit horses and allowing or pushing them at a pace
they can't handle. That's an obscene oversimplification of the
discussion. As Terry Woolley Howe explained 25 milers have criteria
designed to protect the horse from such abuse, but hey you will
always find ignorant, or irresponsible people out there. The point
is that if someone is having a good time at the shorter events [25s
or 50s], and is behaving well to their animal and to others,
why insist they should move up in distance? Most likely they "can" do
a 50 - but it is their choice. Why do the majority of ridecampers
seem to assume moving up to a longer race does anyone a "favor"?
Why look down on someone if they decide not to move up? Many will use
the 25s only as training and that is perfectly legitimate. But don't
scold others who see no reason to do longer distances. I think a
horse that is brought through in a fast time, seems to be enjoying
it, and has good recoveries in a 25 miler, should be respected as
much as a horse with a poor performance, but who "finished" a 50
miler. If that rider says "hey I like this, I know how to do this
fairly well, and I don't want to do the longer races" it's their
business. We should respect responsible, good
performances at all distances. Many people on this site have
expressed the feeling that if your ultimate goal is not 100s you just
are just not welcome on the endurance scene, but oh, please pay the
fee anyway. I hate to see such narrow mindedness expressed.
Beth
" Horses depend on their human
riders to look after them..... I have seen 25-milers
blow out their horses on the first loop, only to have them peeing
coffee. And what's worse is that once when this happened, the owner
acted as if he could care less. He wants to ride fast, he will ride
fast, and he has metabolic trouble consistently. .... that if you're
consistently winning 25s, do yourself and your horse a favor. Try a
50. You CAN do it."
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Cc: "'zebella@idt.net'" <zebella@idt.net>
Subject: The great Molasses debate
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:03:15 -0500
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Kathleen Crandell,
I once heard that molasses also contained some b vitamins and iron. Is
this true?
Thanks,
Suzanne
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Backcountry horsemen web sites
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 12:32:03 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd2c2b$cb1663e0$LocalHost@duncanfl>
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There are several state backcountry horsemen web sites that may be of
interest:
California: http://www.bchc.com
Idaho: http://www.povn.com/bch/
Washington: http://www.bchw.org
Ozarks: http://members.yournet.com/bcho/bcho2.html
Among other things, on the California and Washington sites, you will find
information on legislation that may affect your use of backcountry trails.
Even if you are not a member, your help in writing letters to appropriate
people on this issues would be appreciated. Even on somewhat local issues
such as the proposed changes to stock use in California wilderness areas by
USFS, keep in mind they could very easily be extended to other USFS
forests - and the precedent would already be set.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:03:34 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
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To: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net, VervaetP@deruyter.k12.ny.us
Subject: Re: The great Molasses debate
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Hi all,
I'm getting a bunch of questions directed to my addy......I am not
Kathleen Crandell!!! I merely forwarded a post that I had gotten from
her reguarding molasses for endurance horses back in July of 97!
If any of you would like to speak to Ms Crandell personally, her email
addy is Kathleen Crandell <kcrandel@ix.netcom.com>. Hopefully she won't
mind answering any further questions.
Make sure you are clear in what you are asking though, since she
probably doesn't even remember the original post.
thanks,
tracy
-ID: <34CF9D25.5693@idt.net>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:03:34 -0700
From: Zebella <zebella@idt.net>
Reply-To: zebella@idt.net
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From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801282113.AA03339@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: ridecamp cc's
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Hi folks,
I have a request. When you are responding to an email and also posting
your response to ridecamp could you put the ridecamp@endurance.net on
the main To: line instead of Cc:ing. I like to filter all my ridecamp
e-mail into a special folder, but my filter wont let me screen for cc's.
I am open to suggestions for better filters, but I'm on a unix operating
system.
Teresa
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801282115.OAA20630@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Strange Blood - Potassium
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 14:15:21 MST
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2]
Linda B. Merims
>The *same* elevated potassium level showed up.
>He has a free choice mineral salt block in his
^^^^^^^
>stall that he consumes only slowly, and has not received any electrolyte
>supplementation during the period of these tests.
This raised a flag for me. While having a mineral block is nice,
having a plain salt block is necessary. Try adding just the white
salt block, or free choice loose salt, to his diet. If you see
him eating a lot of the salt, you may have solved your mystery.
--
Wendy
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Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
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Fort Collins, CO, 80528-9599 FAX: (970) 229-2038 (898-2038)
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: my last comment on this
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:12:27 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34cf9cd3.18963622@mail.mti.net>
References: <199801282105.QAA14411@voon.nismat.org>
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On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:05:11 +0000, "Beth Glace" <lb@nismat.org>
wrote:
>The point
>is that if someone is having a good time at the shorter events [25s
>or 50s], and is behaving well to their animal and to others,
>why insist they should move up in distance?
I don't think anyone is doing that. There have been proposals to
limit the number of 25 mile rides a horse would be allowed to enter
before having to "move up" in the past, and they were soundly
rejected.
<snip>
> I think a
>horse that is brought through in a fast time, seems to be enjoying
>it, and has good recoveries in a 25 miler, should be respected as
>much as a horse with a poor performance, but who "finished" a 50
>miler.
Sorry, I do not agree. Anyone who has competed as a runner knows that
doubling the distance (at the same speed) doesn't just make the event
twice as challenging -- it does much more. It's been said often and
is very true that most healthy horses can complete a 25 mile ride with
no special training or conditioning at all (even at fairly high
speeds); the same is not true of a 50.
>Many people on this site have
>expressed the feeling that if your ultimate goal is not 100s you just
>are just not welcome on the endurance scene, but oh, please pay the
>fee anyway. I hate to see such narrow mindedness expressed.
A few people may feel that way, I wouldn't call it "many." I welcome
all 25 mile riders to the "endurance scene," even if they never want
to ride an endurance ride. But they should understand that 25 miles
is not a test of equine endurance, and does not deserve the same kind
or amount of "recognition" as the horses doing 50's, 100's, or
multi-days. Recognition appropriate to the level they're competing
at, yes, but if they want the same recognition as those who ride at
longer distances they should ride those distances to earn it.
And I guess that's the bottom line AFAIC -- recognition should be
earned, not demanded.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:21:04 -0500 (EST)
From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
X-Sender: lbm@klingon
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Orthoflex: New Owner Questions
In-Reply-To: <34CFB970.6752@cfw.com>
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> Angela C. McGhee wrote:
> >
> > ...I really hate to see how
> > everybody turned on the Ortho-flex people. It's a shame to not see them
> > at the trade show. Looking at some of the craftmanship in the
> > "experimental" models made the Ortho Flex look awfully good, and I think
> > we should all be thankful to them for starting the "let's make a better
> > mousetrap" mentality popular. I think a lot of folks just thought they
> > got big for their britches, but looking at the prices on the Italian
> > saddle ($2200), they don't seem as out of line...
I went to the AERC conference for two reasons: just to be there
and see what it was; and to buy a saddle. I was also very disappointed
and surprised to see that Orthoflex did not have a booth at
the trade show. I ended up buying an Orthoflex anyway, a used
Versatel English-style offered through the AERC used saddle
booth.
I just called up Orthoflex to try to get any information on the
saddle that I could, and to order a girth. Turns out they don't
talk to individuals anymore about anything. I was referred to
a local dealer and have to find out everything and order everything
through her.
I would have liked to have seen more saddle vendors at the show.
I still don't feel that I have a good sense of what is available
out there, but now my attention is all focused on getting my
Orthoflex to work for me, even if the company that made it won't
talk to me about it directly.
So, Orthoflex-owning people, what are the two or three things I need
to pay attention to as I start out with this saddle? From searching
the Ridecamp archives I gather that there are some issues related
to getting the girth tight enough, but I don't think the indexing
program is actually picking up on everything that has been said over
the last few years and I don't mind repeats of information. I
gather that Orthoflexes are pretty rare in this part of the country
and it looks like Ridecamp is going to be my best hope for getting
insider information on my new saddle.
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: my last comment on this
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:48:44 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d0a597.21207639@mail.mti.net>
References: <199801282105.QAA14411@voon.nismat.org> <34cf9cd3.18963622@mail.mti.net>
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Oops, after reading Julie's post I want to clarify this:
On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:12:27 GMT, "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net> wrote:
>Sorry, I do not agree. Anyone who has competed as a runner knows that
>doubling the distance (at the same speed) doesn't just make the event
>twice as challenging -- it does much more. It's been said often and
>is very true that most healthy horses can complete a 25 mile ride with
>no special training or conditioning at all (even at fairly high
>speeds); the same is not true of a 50.
Note that I was referring to "at the same speed." Most people ride
more slowly the first time they ride at a new (longer) distance. So
once you have your horse in condition and are handling 25's in under,
say, four hours riding time you need not fear moving up to 50's if you
wish, and once your horse can handle 50 miles in under seven or so
hours riding time you can move up to 100's.
Note that these riding times are very general guidlines, not hard &
fast benchmarks.
I certainly don't want to discourage anyone from trying a longer
distance!!!
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:04:08 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
X-Sender: bartesc@mallard2
To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: distances
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Angie wrote:
Actually, don't think of it as paying by the mile. Think of it this way,
we charged a certain amount of money to let you and your horse come out
and ride "enough". You got "enough" a lot cheaper than the 100s got
"enough". You had a great weekend, visited with friends, enjoyed the
trails. The 100's did the same. Looks like you got a bargain.
I say:
How true, how true!!
samm bartee--doing 25's cause my mare is not quite 5
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:11:22 -0600 (CST)
From: Samm C Bartee <bartesc@mail.auburn.edu>
X-Sender: bartesc@mallard2
To: Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: convention
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Hey guys!! I just got back from the convention in KY. Well, I got back a
couple of days ago, but my system had a breakdown from some viral thingie
that I am just now recovering from!
I had a blast, met tons of people from here and boy wasn't it great to put
faces with sigs?
But I can't believe my luck this weekend! I never win anything, but guess
what? I WON AN ENTRY TO THE TEVIS!!! OH--MY--GOSH!! I was floating on
air. I couldn't believe it. My first response was great, I win this year
and my horse isn't old enough yet. BUT, my great buddy,, Nina Gibson,
offered me the use of her super horse Coujur to take!! again,
OH--MY--GOSH!! Now, to find a ride there, I live in Alabama, not exactly
a hop skip and a jump to CA. Hmmmm...but, seems that several people here
in the SE are planning on a trip to the Tevis this year, gods willing, and
hopefully, we will have a slot on one of those trailers....Carlos?:-))
OH--MY--GOSH!! Now, I have to go to the Tevis web site and print it off
and learn all I can about this ride.
I started doing endurance in 1991. I first heard about it about 4 months
before my first LD ride, and decided then that the Tevis was one that I
had to do!! Along with Outlaw Trail and Old Dominion. Well, OD is a LOT
closer, but to just get to go to the TEVIS!!:-)0 Oh man.
CA, with any luck and a lot of planning, here we come!!
samm--still floating......
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To: trc@gte.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: stirrups ...things I've learned.
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:33:52 EST
I'm sure this has all been hashed over plenty. But here's my .02. I have
used the saddle for 1700 miles of competition on three rather differen
tArabs. I have never vetted in (or out) of a ride with a sore back, I'm
sure my day is coming, and since I've made this claim I guess I'll be
doomed to a saddle pull at the next ride. I got my Ortho for $500 so I
didn't buy it for that $$ reason. I didn't see Rio's back, but I did see
Saxx at the North American championship. I thought he had Desitin on his
back it was so white. He endorses that flexible tree saddle. To each
his own. I don't know what your friend is like, but I know lots of
saddlers around here and they only horses they know squat about are
sawhorses. Dane Frazier commented that the Ortho doesn't fit every
horse, but they were the most versatile he'd seen. I'm just not arguing
with success. How many miles of competition have you put on your horses?
I believe Susan Kasemayer just finished 4 or 5,000 on her Arabian that
she won the Pardners Award with last year, all on her Ortho-Flex. I'd
better send her a note and let her know it doesn't fit.
I have no problem with other saddles. There are some very nice ones, as
I noted the SR seemed, sometimes a cheapo happens to fit, that's great!
but what is your problem with some of us liking the Ortho-Flex?
How could anyone work 7 horses?
Angie
On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:17:17 -0600 "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net> writes:
>Dear Angie, I ride in a SR saddle, a Zes saddle , and a Dipietra
>saddle,
>depending on the horse. The Zes saddle is no longer Italian made, it
>is
>made here in TX, by circle Y. The Zes tree has fit every ARABIAN I
>have
>put it on.
> I like all 3 saddles and they are very easy to interchange
>because
>they are all CENTERED riding saddles. I ride a variety of endurance
>horses, I have 7 right now, so I pick the saddle depending on the
>horse.
> My SR was made specifcally for one of my arabs that has one
>shoulder
>larger than the other. The bone structure is different due to how he
>was
>carried in the womb.
> The only saddle I do not like is the Orthoflex, I have seen more
>sore
>backs on Arabs than any other saddle. I think people buy them to say
>they
>spent that much money on a saddle, its sort of a status symbol. If
>it is
>so good why did Rio have big white spots on his back?? I think the
>orthoflex fits very few endurance horses and it is too heavy. Why
>would
>you buy a saddle designed by someone who really did not ride
>endurance??
> I knew someone who worked for Orthoflex and they told me that the
>saddle rarely fits and arab. I have many, many friends with dusty
>orthoflexes in their barns.
>
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To: rayo@cfw.com
Cc: rides2far@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: stirrups ...things I've learned./Italian Trooper?
Message-ID: <19980129.055641.4822.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:57:48 EST
There was no mention of pivoting bars. It seemed to be a rigid tree,
with no panels of any sort between tree and horse. (If I remember
correctly.) When you looked at it it looked like the seat was far above
the saddle, but it didn't really feel that way. I couldn't reach the
stirrups, don't know about the balance. They claimed Maggie Price had
just bought two of them. I'm sorry, I do not remember the name of the
saddle. I don't remember them mentioning the word Trooper. I am
familiar with the Field Trial type saddles and this really didn't
resemble them.
Sorry I can't be of much help,
Angie
>from
4-5866] Re that Italian
>saddle-was it a"Universal Pattern Trooper"?If it was
>,it may have had those pivoting sidebars I mentioned,and this would
>have
>accounted for the rep saying,in all sincerity,"it fits all
>horses".That's
>erroneous,of course,but pivoting side bars do go a long way toward
>solving the saddle fit problem.What was the brand name on that
>saddle?I've not seen an Italian trooper,but I did recently see a
>photo
>of mounted present day border militia in China or Mongolia or
>Gazeekistan
>or some-such,mounted on-you guessed it-bronze arch slung-seat trooper
>saddles,all rather the worse for wear,as were the riders.Tough looking
>
>characters!I'll bet they'd be competitve in Endurance competition.
>
>
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: apprenticeship
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 15:24:00 -0800
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<The truth of the matter is, those individual riders who like to blow it
out will not have a horse left to become a 50 or 100-miler. The horse's
legs simply won't last (not to mention threat of death in metabolic
breakdown). I believe that's why less hot-dogging is seen in the upper
levels. These people have learned to take care of their horses, not
just
live for the glory of the moment.>
Or they just get a new horse. Many of the wise and virtuous 50/100
mile people have learned the hard way by burning up a few horses.
Unfortunately for the poor horses, there seems to be quite a learning
curve in this sport. I have long thought there should be some type of
"apprentice-membership" in AERC to transfer hard-won knowledge to
novices without the horses having to be sacrificed. I don't know, maybe
you'd have to do 3 rides with a member and pass the written test or
something. Just an idea.....
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From: Lucy Chaplin Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
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Blankenship, Ann wrote:
> I have long thought there should be some type of
> "apprentice-membership" in AER....I don't know, maybe
> you'd have to do 3 rides with a member and pass the written test or
> something. Just an idea.....
When I used to race motorcycles in England, as a "novice", you
had to wear an orange bib (presumably to warn other riders "idiot
ahead, pass with care"). You had to complete at least one race at
eight meetings in order to get past this, and move up to "normalness"
and do-away with the bib.
The key thing there, was *complete* races at eight meetings.
If you entered eight and "crashed and burned" (if you'll pardon the
allusion) on each, you didn't get anywhere. Presumably, this would
mirror itself in endurance riding.
The orange bib could warn other riders to pass with care (presuming
that if you're new, your horse would be too - which isn't necessarily
the case - but at least it would give you a chance to sort yourself
out). It could also warn vets/management/other crews that you may be
wandering around in a daze and may need help...?
Even without all that, I can still see wearing an "INEXPERIENCED HORSE"
bib would be helpful, if you weren't quite sure how your horse was going
to react to the whole endurance thing.
Hmmm, perhaps I could get it painted on Mouse's butt in grease pen?
--
**************************************************************
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Displaced English person in Sacramento, CA
http://www.calweb.com/~elsie
http://www.calweb.com/~trouble
**************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:07:25 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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Subject: Re: apprenticeship
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Lucy Chaplin Trumbull wrote:
> I can still see wearing an "INEXPERIENCED HORSE"
> bib would be helpful, if you weren't quite sure how your horse was going
> to react to the whole endurance thing.
Here inthe MId Atlantic, I've always seen ribbons to help sort out the
horse's experience or proclivities.
Red = Kicker/biter
Yellow = Stallion
Green = Green Horse/Novice
Just braid the ribbon into the tail!
When I first startedendurance (late 70's), I only found out about the
rides thru riders, who would then "sponsor" me and coach me. I'm not
sure that I'd have ever finished without them!
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:10:22 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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How about experienced riders "adopting a NEWBIE" if a ride runs a loop
together. Do some training rides together. Speak at riding
clubs/scouts meetings/4H groups.
If we don't like seeing inexperienced riders running down their horses,
how about educating them in a non-threatening manner. (mentoring)
We've brought quite a few folks into the sport this way - they're still
riding the same horses many years later, still enjoying their rides.
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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To: rides2far@juno.com
Cc: trc@gte.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: stirrups ...things I've learnedCORRECTION:.
Message-ID: <19980129.072300.4502.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
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<19980129.053204.4822.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:24:44 EST
PLEASE READ CORRECTION:
>I have no problem with other saddles. There are some very nice ones,
>as I noted the SR seemed, sometimes a cheapo happens to fit, that's
>great! but what is your problem with some of us liking the
>Ortho-Flex?
AT SOME POINT I DELETED ABOUT HALF A SENTENCE, MAKES THIS COME OUT WRONG!
Should read:
"The SR seemed to be one of the quality ones, and sometimes a cheapo
happens to fit, that's great!
I never meant to call the SR a Cheapo! Like I said, it was a beautiful
saddle. I'd love to have one in my barn.
Angie
> How could anyone work 7 horses?
>
>Angie
>
>
>On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 06:17:17 -0600 "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net>
>writes:
>>Dear Angie, I ride in a SR saddle, a Zes saddle , and a Dipietra
>>saddle,
>>depending on the horse. The Zes saddle is no longer Italian made, it
>
>>is
>>made here in TX, by circle Y. The Zes tree has fit every ARABIAN I
>>have
>>put it on.
>> I like all 3 saddles and they are very easy to interchange
>>because
>>they are all CENTERED riding saddles. I ride a variety of endurance
>>horses, I have 7 right now, so I pick the saddle depending on the
>>horse.
>> My SR was made specifcally for one of my arabs that has one
>>shoulder
>>larger than the other. The bone structure is different due to how he
>
>>was
>>carried in the womb.
>> The only saddle I do not like is the Orthoflex, I have seen
>more
>>sore
>>backs on Arabs than any other saddle. I think people buy them to say
>
>>they
>>spent that much money on a saddle, its sort of a status symbol. If
>
>>it is
>>so good why did Rio have big white spots on his back?? I think the
>>orthoflex fits very few endurance horses and it is too heavy. Why
>>would
>>you buy a saddle designed by someone who really did not ride
>>endurance??
>> I knew someone who worked for Orthoflex and they told me that
>the
>>saddle rarely fits and arab. I have many, many friends with dusty
>>orthoflexes in their barns.
>>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get
>completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno
>at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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des2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:24:44 EST
PLEASE READ CORRECTION:
>I have no problem with other saddles. There are some very nice ones,
>as I noted the SR seemed, sometimes a cheapo happens to fit, that's
>great! but what is your problem with some of us liking the
>Ortho-Flex?
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From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
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I'm sure my horse could do 50, or even more if I asked or insisted. Is
it really responsible of me to have him do this distance just because he
can, and not because he is ready? If he was pulled for soreness or
slight lameness from his first previously attempted 50, how do I know he
is ready? Do I know he isn't ready when we are in 2/3 into the 50 and
he breaks down but we now have no ride home? Or 24 hours after the
ride, when he is sore and grouchy, or his feet have swollen?
I've been told it is unfair to ride him 20-30 miles on a weekend and not
at all during the week. He only suffers after I've gone home getting
over sore muscles. Therefore, he lives in pasture in the winter and I
work him during the week in the summer where he lives in a smaller
pasture.
Isn't doing a 50 with a horse that may show plenty of "pep" but not
having the proper base the same thing?
It is the base and the conditioning that counts, not the fact the horse
"can do it".
Not causin' trouble here, just making a point.
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab..."she said it, not me!")
Pt.Reyes, CA
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:03:34 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
CC: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: apprenticeship
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Hi Ann, your apprenticeship concept is the basis of our training
program here at the Cascade Training Center in Oregon. Although most of
us have been-there-and-done-that, a first-time 100 miler on a novice
horse is sometimes kinda rough.
So we meet folks at races around the country and take them through their
first 50, 100 or multiday on one of our seasoned endurance horses. We
also provide a riding coach to go with them and a crew, living quarters,
food, etc.
Our primary training goal is to give riders hands-on experience that can
be transferred to their horse back-home.
Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
Cascade Endurance Center
Lyons, Oregon
Blankenship, Ann wrote:
>
> <The truth of the matter is, those individual riders who like to blow it
> out will not have a horse left to become a 50 or 100-miler. The horse's
> legs simply won't last (not to mention threat of death in metabolic
> breakdown). I believe that's why less hot-dogging is seen in the upper
> levels. These people have learned to take care of their horses, not
> just
> live for the glory of the moment.>
>
> Or they just get a new horse. Many of the wise and virtuous 50/100
> mile people have learned the hard way by burning up a few horses.
> Unfortunately for the poor horses, there seems to be quite a learning
> curve in this sport. I have long thought there should be some type of
> "apprentice-membership" in AERC to transfer hard-won knowledge to
> novices without the horses having to be sacrificed. I don't know, maybe
> you'd have to do 3 rides with a member and pass the written test or
> something. Just an idea.....
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From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801290153.AA03382@cody.unavco>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: my musings on LD
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
I have to jump in here in regards to a few statements made about LD's vs.
longer distances. Angie states that if you are top 5'ing 25's your horse
can do 50's. Not neccessarily Angie. I have a mare that is a great little
LD horse, she moves at a good working speed, has great recoveries at V.C.s
and has BC'd a few times. She aint no 50 miler horse - has completed 2 flat
50's in her life. She just runs out of gas at the longer distances.
So all I ask is that I not be looked down on for finishing mid to back
of the pack on a 50 from someone who has won an LD BC award - (win a 50 BC
award before you look down on me for being slow.) I consider my slow 50's
gelding a better endurance horse than my BC winning LD mare.
Someone stated that LDer's are more likely to run too fast and ruin their
horses. Well some of them do go too fast, especially on a 4 yr old horse
but many who race those 4 yr olds at LD will race them 50 miles as 5 yr
olds. (And these horses will have soundness problems before a properly
ridden horse reaches his peak) but AERC has some good rules to protect
horses from ignorant or unfeeling riders and I don't want to see the
sport become totally hemmed in with rules to try to offer total protection
to every horse out there. All horse lovers hate to see a horse over-ridden
but most of us are also indepenent cusses who do endurance to get away from
nit picky rules arent we?
The best we can do is be very pro-active in educating newbies that horses
need a good LSD base of a few years before they are ready to race, so
it is better to buy a horse from someone who raises good animals and
starts them slowly than to buy a horse that was winning 50's at five;
and to put a base of moderate paced rides for a year or 2 on your own horse
before you open the throttle. I like the current AERC system for LD's with
the BC and completion awards and the rider mileage program. I like the
50's and 100's system for completion awards and rider mileage program, in
addition to placement awards, which recognize that not every one rides with
the goal of winning that day's race.
nuff said,
Teresa
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: ridecamp-d-request@endurance.net (by way of AJ's Classical Gas <ajsgas@imt.net>)
Subject: Re: Respect
No matter what mileage you do, 25's, 50's, 100's, multi-days, repect is a
personal item. It is something that is earned. If you go out and ride a 25
sensibly, with the best for your horse in mind, learn from your mistakes,
ask for help or advise from those who have done more miles, and basicly go
to have fun, people will respect that. If you arrive at camp with an
arrogant attitude that says "We're pretty hot stuff" and "We're going to
Kick Butt! and win at any cost", showing no regard for others on the trail,
authorities at vet checks or in camp, and think that speed is all this game
entails, then "No", some of you probably never will get any respect in this
game, at any distance. These "guidelines" encompass those who ride at every
mileage, not just limited distance, believe me, we all know people at every
distance that we wish didn't represent this sport. I personally have done
50's, 100's and last year only limited distance, I go to have fun meet new
people, see new country, and to enjoy a day with somne of my best friends,
my horse included. As Sandy said earlier.. The GLORY is in the completion
and for us in the doing...something that few others have accomplished or
even tried.
"Soapbox Mode Off":-)
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
Jim & his good stuff
(Vintage Yellowstone Park Buses, parts and NOS)
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Message-ID: <34CFE643.4CEF@wvi.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:15:38 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
Reply-To: ramey@wvi.com
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To: bluwolf@earthlink.net
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Subject: National Rider Development Program
References: <34CFC8EE.1CBD@earthlink.net>
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Linda, did you hear that the AERC International Committee and AERC Board
of Directors approved the creation of a National Rider Development
Program?
This educational concept is based on delivering regional seminars
throughout the United States, and maybe Canada. There is also a plan to
explore week-long training camps and preconference seminars at major
organizational meetings like AHSA, IAHA, etc.
The Board also approved $1,000 for initial development and a full budget
will be presented at the mid-year Board meeting. The really exciting
news is that we have already received offers of more than $5,000 in cash
and services, the endorcement of AHSA and a tentative offer of $10,000
from USET to support the advanced training componet proposed by the
Active Riders Committee.
Stay tuned for further updates.
Ramey Peticolas-Stroud
Cascade Endurance Center
Lyons, Oregon
Linda S. Flemmer wrote:
>
> How about experienced riders "adopting a NEWBIE" if a ride runs a loop
> together. Do some training rides together. Speak at riding
> clubs/scouts meetings/4H groups.
>
> If we don't like seeing inexperienced riders running down their horses,
> how about educating them in a non-threatening manner. (mentoring)
>
> We've brought quite a few folks into the sport this way - they're still
> riding the same horses many years later, still enjoying their rides.
>
> Linda Flemmer
> Blue Wolf Ranch
> Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:24:12 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Re: convention
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.95.980128160411.21283O-100000@mallard2>
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At 04:11 PM 1/28/98 -0600, you wrote:
>
>CA, with any luck and a lot of planning, here we come!!
>
>samm--still floating......
>
Samm,
I didn't know. Congrads. Are you sure that CA is ready for the SE party
squad lead by SERA's fearless leader (has that chair recovered yet) and the
"mad Latin" Carlos - especially after the duo Carlos and Danny did at the
dance.
Truman
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:37:22 -0600
To: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: my musings on LD
In-Reply-To: <9801290153.AA03382@cody.unavco>
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Thank you Theresa. Maybe if the rules aren't broke, we don't need to fix them.
chris paus & star
At 06:53 PM 1/28/98 +0700, Teresa Van Hove wrote:
>
>I have to jump in here in regards to a few statements made about LD's vs.
>longer distances. Angie states that if you are top 5'ing 25's your horse
>can do 50's. Not neccessarily Angie. I have a mare that is a great little
>LD horse, she moves at a good working speed, has great recoveries at V.C.s
>and has BC'd a few times. She aint no 50 miler horse - has completed 2 flat
>50's in her life. She just runs out of gas at the longer distances.
>So all I ask is that I not be looked down on for finishing mid to back
>of the pack on a 50 from someone who has won an LD BC award - (win a 50 BC
>award before you look down on me for being slow.) I consider my slow 50's
>gelding a better endurance horse than my BC winning LD mare.
>
>Someone stated that LDer's are more likely to run too fast and ruin their
>horses. Well some of them do go too fast, especially on a 4 yr old horse
>but many who race those 4 yr olds at LD will race them 50 miles as 5 yr
>olds. (And these horses will have soundness problems before a properly
>ridden horse reaches his peak) but AERC has some good rules to protect
>horses from ignorant or unfeeling riders and I don't want to see the
>sport become totally hemmed in with rules to try to offer total protection
>to every horse out there. All horse lovers hate to see a horse over-ridden
>but most of us are also indepenent cusses who do endurance to get away from
>nit picky rules arent we?
>
>The best we can do is be very pro-active in educating newbies that horses
>need a good LSD base of a few years before they are ready to race, so
>it is better to buy a horse from someone who raises good animals and
>starts them slowly than to buy a horse that was winning 50's at five;
>and to put a base of moderate paced rides for a year or 2 on your own horse
>before you open the throttle. I like the current AERC system for LD's with
>the BC and completion awards and the rider mileage program. I like the
>50's and 100's system for completion awards and rider mileage program, in
>addition to placement awards, which recognize that not every one rides with
>the goal of winning that day's race.
>
>nuff said,
>Teresa
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:37:21 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
Subject: Convention
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Ramey Peticolas-Stroud put together one hell of a program. From nutrition
to rehabilitation therapy - one hell of a two days. Thank you Remey. This
brings up another point. Since Lexington is the center of performance
horse country - from KER to equine physical therapist, maybe the convention
should be held in Lexington four of five years and Reno on the fifth.
Now to go put on my asbestos under wear to take the flames <G>
Truman
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:43:57 -0600
To: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee), rayo@cfw.com
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: stirrups ...things I've learned./Italian Trooper?
Cc: rides2far@juno.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <19980129.055641.4822.3.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801270354.VAA10201@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com>
<19980128.022525.5478.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
<34CFB970.6752@cfw.com>
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I've seen an Italian endurance saddle at one of our local tack shops. It's
brand name is Appaloosa. Isnt' that a hoot! I've talked to my Italian
horsey pals on thenet and the Appaloosa saddles are very popular over
there....
chris paus & star
At 05:57 PM 1/28/98 EST, Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
>
>There was no mention of pivoting bars. It seemed to be a rigid tree,
>with no panels of any sort between tree and horse. (If I remember
>correctly.) When you looked at it it looked like the seat was far above
>the saddle, but it didn't really feel that way. I couldn't reach the
>stirrups, don't know about the balance. They claimed Maggie Price had
>just bought two of them. I'm sorry, I do not remember the name of the
>saddle. I don't remember them mentioning the word Trooper. I am
>familiar with the Field Trial type saddles and this really didn't
>resemble them.
>
>Sorry I can't be of much help,
>Angie
>
>>from
>4-5866] Re that Italian
>>saddle-was it a"Universal Pattern Trooper"?If it was
>>,it may have had those pivoting sidebars I mentioned,and this would
>>have
>>accounted for the rep saying,in all sincerity,"it fits all
>>horses".That's
>>erroneous,of course,but pivoting side bars do go a long way toward
>>solving the saddle fit problem.What was the brand name on that
>>saddle?I've not seen an Italian trooper,but I did recently see a
>>photo
>>of mounted present day border militia in China or Mongolia or
>>Gazeekistan
>>or some-such,mounted on-you guessed it-bronze arch slung-seat trooper
>>saddles,all rather the worse for wear,as were the riders.Tough looking
>>
>>characters!I'll bet they'd be competitve in Endurance competition.
>>
>>
>
>_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
>
>
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:48:42 -0600
To: bluwolf@earthlink.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Apprenticeship
In-Reply-To: <34CFC8EE.1CBD@earthlink.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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NOt all newbies run down their horses! Most of us pamper and baby them and
probably don't push them to their full potential! There are some speed
demons out there, but from my experience, they have done a lot more rides
than I have and are comfortable tearing around the countryside. I abhor
them bringing in a lathered, hot horse, but when I have commented to other
riders about them I've learned that so and so has been atthis for years.
On the flip side, mentoring is a great way to go and I think that many
veteran riders do it without there being a formal program. Certainly I have
a couple of individuals to thank for getting me adn Star through our first
year. We got some good coaching and one woman even risked missing her
completino to help us when she saw we were in trouble.
chris paus & star
At 07:10 PM 1/28/98 -0500, Linda S. Flemmer wrote:
>How about experienced riders "adopting a NEWBIE" if a ride runs a loop
>together. Do some training rides together. Speak at riding
>clubs/scouts meetings/4H groups.
>
>If we don't like seeing inexperienced riders running down their horses,
>how about educating them in a non-threatening manner. (mentoring)
>
>We've brought quite a few folks into the sport this way - they're still
>riding the same horses many years later, still enjoying their rides.
>
>Linda Flemmer
>Blue Wolf Ranch
>Bruceton Mills, WV
>
>
>
s Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Apprenticeship
In-Reply-To: <34CFC8EE.1CBD@earthlink.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
NOt all newbies run down their horses! Most of us pamper and baby them and
probably don't push them to their full potential! There are some speed
demons out there, but from my experience, they have done a lot more rides
than I have and a6589 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000003623 06463772734 0013143 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo14.mx.aol.com (imo14.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.169]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA06555 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 19:21:59 -0800 (PST)
From: Kim Fue <KimFue@aol.com>
Message-ID: <a2d929c.34cff49f@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:16:45 EST
To: bobrow@pacbell.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: AERC Board Meeting Minutes
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To: Marianne, editor of Endurance News:
I would like to make a suggestion when publishing the AERC Board Meeting
minutes in the AERC News. I think it would be very helpful for AERC members
to see how their directors vote on issues that are before the board. I would
like to see AERC publish not only whether a motion was passed or defeated but
how each director voted on the motion.
It would be very helpful for membership to see how their directors vote
on issues. This year is an election year for Directors at Large and I would
like to be more informed when I vote this year. Many Directors at Large are
not in my region so my only knowledge of them comes from their riding
notariety not on how they stand on issues that effect me as an endurance
rider.
If you are not able to publish full minutes because of the number of
pages it would take up in Endurance News I think that you should post the
minutes, including the voting record, on the AERC website or on the Endurance
web site (endurance.com) which lists all ride results.
I recall that you asked members to become more involved in AERC in one of
your posts last Fall. I think being a well informed member would be a great
start. If you are not able to publish the minutes including the voting record
in EN or a website please let me know the reason why this information is not
made available to AERC members.
Kim Fuess
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id rma026380; Wed Jan 28 21:52:55 1998
From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: Synergist (John DiPietra) saddles
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Well here I go again, soliciting more information from the group
again...I hope you don't mind....
I just saw the video on the John DiPietra synergist saddles and it is
pretty convincing. I'd love to hear from any of you who have gone the
route of ordering one that is shaped for you and your horse and your
good or bad experiences with with this saddle or company.
He says the horse's back is more concave standing and raises at a walk
to canter, and the amount it is raised is based on the breed (average).
He puts high density expensive foam under the saddle to allow this
movement and keep contact on the horse at all times. He also sets his
stirrups directly under the rider for the balanced seat we all seem to
strive for. In addition, he will refit your saddle at anytime for
$95., gives a 100% guarantee less 10% if not happy, full guarantee on
worksmanship.
He also fits the seat for your butt size using measurements of your
seat bone width. Also shapes the saddle to fit your thighs. Different
models to choose from for $1600.00 Sounds like a dream.
So please, anyone with any experience with this saddle please let me
know (and the list so we don't hog information). He has endorsements
form top riders, the only one I recognize is Erin McChesney.
And so the hunt continues......
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab.."I keep tellin ya, don't ride me and save
your money!")
+ Provo the Proud, "I'm an arab, ride me and be proud!"
Pt.Reyes, CA
ps:I'm on digest so cc:me if posting to ridecamp and thanks!!!
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From: "lth" <lth@lightspeed.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Saddles?
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 03:24:31 -0800
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Just curious . . . . . . . . Has anyone ever used a saddle made by
the "Custom Tree and Saddle Co." in Chapmansboro, TN? I noticed they
make an endurance type saddle that can be made with 3-way adjustable
stirrup positions. Their URL is www.steelesaddle.com
Linda Hedgpeth
Wasco, CA
lth@lightspeed.net
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:19:18 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
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To: KIMBERLY PRICE <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
CC: Ridecamp Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Synergist (John DiPietra) saddles
References: <199801290353.VAA26407@dfw-ix8.ix.netcom.com>
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I've had mine almost a year and really love it. While it was made for my
measurents, I got a standard arab tree as I knew my horse would muscle
up in the future and obviously didn't want it made to fit an unfit
horse.
I really don't have a lot of miles in it but so far, no problems. I am
very comfortable in the seat and because it is balanced it is a breeze
to stand in the stirrups.
Lauren
Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:23:53 -0800 (PST)
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From: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Message-ID: <34620c9.34d0038a@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:20:24 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: WAY OF LIFE
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Okay - the question of the week -
for those of you who actually get the weekends off to go to rides, everyone
wnats to know, what distance do you ride, how many horses do you have and what
pray tell do you do for a living? You don't have to give your age, but if you
were born before Kennedy was elected that would be good to know too!
Joke of the day from my daughetr -
If a tiny burro is called a burrito, what would you call a little judge?
san
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Received: (from krisolko@juno.com)
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To: rides2far@juno.com
Cc: arikaras@iafrica.com, BikoNMe@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:24:13 -0800
Subject: Re: Thoroughbreds
Message-ID: <19980128.203750.3374.0.krisolko@juno.com>
References: <E0xwN1s-0001VR-00@smtp02.iafrica.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
>They tend to have bad feet. Hard to keep heel on them. Don't count
>on ride managers trimming limbs that Arab riders can't hit.
Again it depends on the animal. You can find a TB with large, round,
strong feet.
Good heel also. I know because I did.
No, RMs don't trim high enough for us. : ))
Kris
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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From: MBlanchrd <MBlanchrd@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e02aba4e.34d007e9@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:39:03 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Saddle fitting
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Hi, all,
This is a few days late but I have been busy.....................someone
mentioned something about an article on saddle fitting in one of the "English
magazines". "Dressage and CT" magazine's latest issue (Feb 98) has an
outstanding article about checking to see if your saddle fits. Check it
out..it has lots of good information.
And regarding husbands at rides. After seeing me work at several of them, my
husband has finally found a horse sport he wants to try. (no roundyroundy in
the show ring for him, thank god.) So.............we're taking lessons. I am
going for the tune up I so badly need, and he's in an English saddle for the
first time in his life.
Wouldn'tcha know it...the guy is a natural. I can't even FIND my leg, much
less put in the right place, and this man is already doing sidepasses and
transitions without even trying.
Sigh. Life is so unfair............
Michelle
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From: NANDUNBAR <NANDUNBAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <cc9776a5.34d00c66@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:58:12 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Horse Homeopathy
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I'm new to homeopathy, especially where my horse is concerned. I am using
apis. The little pills must be very touchy, my book says you should not even
put them in your hands. It says if giving to someone else, to put them
directly in their hands and throw away any extra that come out. My horse eats
them from my hand since they are sweet. I don't have a problem geting them
down him but they have to go into my hands first. Also, he chews, none of
this under the tongue stuff.
Those of you that use homeopathy must have a favorite way of giving, I would
appreciate any input I can get. Thank you.
New and learning---Nancy D.
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From: "Arikara Appaloosas" <arikaras@iafrica.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re 25 Milers
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:54:40 +0200
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Hi all,just my 2cents worth,
Everybody has to start somewhere,be it 25 milers,50 milers or 100
milers.here in s.A most people start by doing 25 milers,if they enjoy it
they carry on to 50 milers.As for me,I had to start from scratch this year
because of a back injury,it was strange riding a extremely experienced
endurance mare(11 years of endurance),doing 25 miles,so i took a group of
novices with me,and passed on any information they wanted to know,answered
all there questions and set the pace for them,they all enjoyed there
ride,most will be back at our next ride to try a 50 miler.for once I could
relax ,(normally far too competitive) ansd see the scenery as well,Shanni
was sure that she was doing a 50 miler and could not understand why her
mother was going at a moderate pace,but she enjoyed the company,10 novices
are a handfull but they opened my eyes,with there thirst for
knowledge,here in S.A novices have to be accompanied by experienced riders
or rider,I enjoy this a feel it a great way to get more people to do
endurance in the future.
At my next ride I will be doing 45 miles,probably with the same group of
novices again,and so it will go until I can do 50 milers and 100 milers
again.
Well at least now i can bring on my young horses,dont normally do that
myself,so am learning something new from these youngsters every day.I am
just delighted to be back in the saddle after six months of hell.
So I definately think 25 milers have there place in endurance.To all the
experienced riders out there pass on your knowledge,its worth it in the
long run!
Regards
kathy
"Shanni","Tuckahoe"have to start somewhere,"Southern Pride"this is fun
mmand look at all those gorgeous mares *S*
hey carry on to 50 milers.As for me,I had to start from scratch this year
because of a back injury,it was strange riding a extremely experienced
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Re: sanctioing LD rides
Cc: ramey@wvi.com, step@bluefish.fsr.com
Greetings Ramey!
This issue was specifically discussed at last year's (1997) convention by
the LD committee. My understanding, at that time, from Bob Walsh of
Insurance One is that any non-AERC sanctioned rides are not covered by the
AERC policy. I hope this helps!
Happitrails!
Brad.
>Hi Steph, welcome home,
>
>This was written to you personally, but I'll post it on RC for general
>information and discussion as well.
>
>Here in the Northwest Region we have a number of PNER Rides that offer
>training events of less than 25 miles. At the Sunday Board meeting in
>KY, I asked if these events must be sanctioned as well? The response
>was "no" in that they are not LD rides be definition (see AERC rules and
>bylaws).
>
>I'm concerned that PNER training rides which are not sanctioned may fall
>OUTSIDE the insurance coverages offered by AERC. Do you (or anyone
>else) have a current copy of the policy and declaration sheet issued to
>RM's that you can send me?
>
>Ramey
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:30:30 -0800
From: Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
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To: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
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Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
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SandyDSA wrote:
> Okay - the question of the week - for those of you who actually get the weekends
> off to go to rides, everyone wnats to know,what distance do you ride, how many
> horses do you have and whatpray tell do you do for a living? You don't have to
> give your age, but if youwere born before Kennedy was elected that would be good
> to know too!
Distance: 50 (did one 25 & moved up)Horse: 1 and only Gabe
Occupation: Community College Instructor: computer applications (word
processing/internet/web publishing) WEEKENDS AND SUMMERS OFF!!!!!!!!
(married to a fireman with MORE time off)
Age: 40
--
Deanne Del Vecchio & Gabe & Doug~~the best "non-horsey" hubby-crew (and voted last
year by RideCamp members as the cutest!)
Creative Computer Concepts
South Lake Tahoe, CA
delvecchio@geocities.com
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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 23:37:46 -0700 (MST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Re: sanctioing LD rides
Cc: step@bluefish.fsr.com, ramey@wvi.com, equine_athletes@hotmail.com,
MBowers472@aol.com, renegade12@juno.com
Greetings Steph!
Have, or will, Sanctioning Directors be instructed to pull/remove
sanctioning if they find out about an unsanctioned LD ride (25-35 miles)
being held in conjunction with an AERC sanctioned endurance ride and the RM
declines to sanction it?
Happitrails!
Brad.
>Somebody asked a question earlier about whether or not
>LD rides should be sanctioned.
>
>It is against AERC rules to for a ride manager to run
>a non-sanctioned event on the same course, at the
>same time, as a sanctioned (e.g. 50, 100 mile) event.
>(there are a few exceptions to this, such as futurities - IAHA).
>Ride managers can not, by the rules, hold a sanctioned
>50 mile ride, and a non-sanctioned 25 mile ride at the
>same time. It was brought to the attention of the board
>that this currently happens - and AERC really has no way
>of knowing about it... since it's usually announced
>at the ride, or by ride flyer, not through AERC.
>
>Steph
>
>(I'll have some convention updates, when I get caught up! )
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
me, as a sanctioned (e.g. 50, 100 mile) event.
>(there are a few exceptions to this, such as futurities - IAHA).
>Ride managers 6601 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000010236 06464024331 0013102 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA16845; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:59:32 -0800 (PST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Re: sanctioning LD rides
Cc: MBowers472@aol.com, bobmorris@rmci.net, step@bluefish.fsr.com,
ramey@wvi.com, equine_athletes@hotmail.com
Greetings All!
At the 1997 AERC Convention in Reno the LD Committee specifically addressed
this issue, and the BOD concurred. This rule was interpreted to mean that:
ANY ride of a distance between 25-35 miles is considered a LD ride-it does
not matter what it is called- and any LD ride held with or within an
adjacent 24-hour time period of an AERC sanctioned Endurance ride must be
sanctioned. As Bob pointed out, there are no such things as "standing
rules". However, there are certainly BOD interpretations of rules, subject
to clarification through the P&G process if needed.
Happitrails!
Brad.
><<<<You're right according to the printed rules -
>
>1.4 Limited Distance Rides may be offered but must be sanctioned into the
>AERC
> Limited Distance Program and held in conjunction with an AERC
>sanctioned
> Endurance ride and must be regulated by AERC Rules and Regulations,
>with the
> following provisos:
>A ride cannot offer an unsanctioned LD ride.>>>
>
>A ride cannot offer Limited Distance Ride, call it a Limited Distance Ride
>with our AERC sanctioning. They can offer the same distance and call it a
>pleasure ride and AERC cannot do any thing about it.
>
><<<BUT - according to Courtney Hart, there is an AERC standing rule that
>a non-sanctioned event cannot be held at the same time, same course,
>as a sanctioned event.>>>>
>
>There is no such thing as a =ECstanding rule=EE!!!! If it is not in the AER=
C
>Articles of Incorporation, the AERC By-laws, or the AERC Rules &
>Regulations then it isn=EDt a rule. Now, we have many precedents set in th=
e
>past that are ignored. Arlene at one time collected all of these and
>submitted them to the AERC. No one cared the least so they were ignored.
>
>Bob Morris
1998 ENDURANCE CALEND=
AR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:03:50 -0700 (MST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: RE: sanctioning LD rides, rules
Cc: equine_athletes@hotmail.com, ramey@wvi.com, step@bluefish.fsr.com,
bobmorris@rmci.net, MBowers472@aol.com
Greetings All!
According to BOD discussion on this issue at the 1997 Annual Meeting in
Reno, non-sanctioned rides of distances up to 24.9 miles and between 35.1
to 49.9 can be held in conjunction with an AERC sanctioned rides - and do
whatever they want with it.
Happitrails!
Brad.
> > A ride cannot offer Limited Distance Ride, call it a Limited Distance Ride
> > with our AERC sanctioning. They can offer the same distance and call it a
> > pleasure ride and AERC cannot do any thing about it.
>
> So Bob, by the same logic, a ride manager could hold
>2 concurrent 50 mile events? One an AERC sanctioned ride, the other
>non-sanctioned 50 mile trail ride... and maybe offering prize money?
>I think the fact that LD is defined as a ride between 25 and 35 miles
>may preclude offering a non-sanctioned 25 mile race. But, certainly
>the way the current rulebook reads, a ride manager *could* offer
>a concurrent 24 mile race, or 40 mile race - and do whatever they
>want with it, vet checks or not, prize money or not. Do you agree?
>Steph
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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From: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)
Subject: way to go, Samm!!
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Hey Samm...way to go! There will be LOTS of ridecampers there, crewing
and riding! And you get to see our awesome Sierras. See ya there!
Kimberly (&Mystery the Morab..."you won't see ME there!")
& Provo "can I go, huh?, please, please....."
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From: "Sue Cunningham" <mdpyssc@fs1.scg.man.ac.uk>
Organization: University of Manchester, UK
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:27:00 GMT
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Subject: Lindum International Ride
Reply-to: sue.cunningham@mcc.ac.uk
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The Lindum
11-12 July 1998
Market Rasen Racecourse, Lincolnshire, UK
The Lindum Ride will this year be a full international ride, with
the main 120 mile (2 day) class a category one ELDRIC ride.
A full programme of supporting classes is also running on both days,
from 60 mile race ride to 20 mile pleasure rides.
Several teams from Europe have all ready indicated they will be
attending, but the organisers are very keen to hear from anyone else
who would like to come along.
The 120 mile route will be two different 60 mile loops over tracks,
bridleways and drove roads through the beautiful Wolds, with very
little roadwork or repetition.
Thanks to the generous sponsorship of Gainsborough Express, there
will be many prizes, trophies and special awards across all the
classes.
For more details, contact:
sue@snaffle.demon.co.uk
or
debbie.bennett@syseca.co.uk
Full details of the ride will be available shortly on the new
Endurance Horse and Pony Society web site at:
http://www.ehps.org.uk
Sue Cunningham
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:28:04 -0700 (MST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: 1998 2nd Annual Rocky Mountain Ride
Cc: lynng@access.mountain.net, step@bluefish.fsr.com,
equine_athletes@hotmail.com, BDWright@UCDavis.edu
Greetings All!
The dates for the 1998 2nd Annual 275 Mile Colorado & Wyoming Rocky
Mountain Ride will be August 3 - 7, 1998 (Monday - Friday). The ride
begins in Arlington, Wyoming (40 miles west of Laramie on I-80) and goes
south to Centennial and Mountain Home/WyColo, Wyoming and Gould, Colorado,
then turns northeast to Red Feather Lakes, CO and ends going southeast at
Stove Prairie, 25 miles west of Fort Collins, CO.
The scenery is spectacular at elevations between 7,717 and 11,160 feet,
climbing over the Snowy Range, Cinnabar Park, Ute Pass, the Medicine Bows,
Montgomery Pass, Deadman Pass, and the Bald Peaks with beautiful views of
Rocky Mountain National Park and the Mount Zirkel, Rawah, Neota, Comanche
Peak and Poudre River Wilderness Areas! It is a challenging but doable
ride - in 1997, nine riders finished all five days on the same horse with
another four finishing four days on the same horse. Georges Chauvin of
France won overall 1st Place and Runner-Up Best Condition while Sala
Sherwood of Nevada won overall Best Condition and Runner-Up (2nd Place).
Diane Kuhn of Iowa wrote in the August, 1997 Arabian Horse Distance Riding
Association Newsletter:
In my 22 years of riding in this sport this ride was the best
return for my entry ever. We rode 9-10 hours each day, there were no bugs,
the temperature averaged 72 degrees each day, the trails were safe and we
were on top of the world (mountains) and could see for 100 miles once or
twice each day.
From a ride manager's perspective, Brad Patterson did an awesome
job of coordinating this event. Along with marking 265 miles of trail,
Brad had trail maps with mileage for each day, there were cowboys available
to take rigs to the next campground, lunch was provided for each rider,
there was a farrier at each campground. As a ride manager of a 5 day
event, Brad Patterson and his crew deserve a standing ovation! His small
team of helpers were very competent, helpful and cheerful.
If you ride smart, any experienced competitive or endurance horse
from this area (midwest) could compete all 5 days.
If Brad does this ride again next year, Liz (Diane's daughter) and
I will be at the beginning of the line to sign up and attend; and you are
missing the riding chance of a lifetime if you aren't there with us.
Lynne Himmelreich of Minnesota wrote:
The Rocky Mountain Ride definitely delivered on its promise to show you
the peaks of the Rockies and some incredible scenery!! The Trail was
rugged and challenging, and the scenery was well worth the ride. I
found the management, vets and volunteers to be very friendly and
helpful.
The good news is that you did not need
a crew for this ride, and many people completed the rides without one,
including several who completed the five days on one horse. There was
loads of water on the trail, and water and hay were provided at the
vet checks that had no grazing. The ride management was happy to take
your stuff to the vet checks, and even set it out for you, so all you
had to do was look for it when you came in. Actually , you didn't
need a driver either, as management provided drivers for a fee, and
they did a great job.
I met some great people, learned a lot, and got my first view of the
Rockies. I hope that Brad offers the ride again next year, and that
many of you take the opportunity to go. I would not hesitate to go
back.
This is a PIONEER Event. Each day is a seperate ride, and rig drivers are
available. Hot showers are available each evening (except Friday
night-sorry!).
Also, a 30 mile Limited Distance ride will be held in conjunction with the
last day of the ride, Friday, August 2nd.
Please contact me for more information. I look forward to seeing you and
your horse there!
Happitrails!
Brad.
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
rtheast to Red Feather Lakes, CO and ends going southeast at
Stove Prairie, 25 miles west of Fort Collins, CO.
The scenery is spectacular at elevations between 7,717 and 11,160 feet,
climbing over the Snowy Range, Cinnabar Park, Ute Pass, the Medicine Bows,
Montgomery Pass, Deadman Pass6606 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005047 06464040225 0013113 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU (eagle.ACNS.ColoState.EDU [129.82.100.90]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA21717 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:40:48 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 01:37:58 -0700 (MST)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Re: 25, 50 & 100 Just do it!
Cc: Marinera@aol.com
Greetings Julie!
As usual, you've said it all:
>So let's each find our place in the sun and be happy that we can be out there
>at all..regardless of our chosen distance.
Thanks & Happitrails!
Brad.
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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From: "Budler, Cindy" <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
To: "'Endurance Net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Troxel
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:07:34 +0200
Return-Receipt-To: <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
X-Mailer: Microsoft Exchange Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63
Encoding: 11 TEXT
Hi,
Can someone help me with an internet e-mail address or fax number for
the Troxel manufacturers in San Diego ? I cannot get through to them by
telephone and don't have a fax number for them. I believe their address
is 1333 30th street,San Diego, CA 92154.
I apologise for sending to the list but I am desperate to get hold of
them.
Thanks,
Cindy
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:41:10 +0100
From: Leonard LIESENS <Leonard.LIESENS@dg10.cec.be> (Tel 99312)
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Horse Homeopathy
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hi Sandy,
I dilute the pills in distilled water in a syringe and inject.
We did the same with our baby until he could let them mold under his tongue.
But be carefull, no more than 10 days for a medecine, otherwise you get the opposite effect.
Leonard, fromm Belgium
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Received: (from rides2far@juno.com)
by x3.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GLD02408; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:16:23 EST
To: paus@micoks.net
Cc: rides2far@juno.com, rayo@cfw.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: stirrups ...things I've learned./Italian Trooper?
Message-ID: <19980129.181442.3350.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <199801270354.VAA10201@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com>
X-Mailer: Juno 1.15
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 06:16:23 EST
I believe that's the name. You'd think I'd remember that, rode Apps for
18 years!
Angie
On Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:43:57 -0600 Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net> writes:
>I've seen an Italian endurance saddle at one of our local tack shops.
>It's
>brand name is Appaloosa. Isnt' that a hoot! I've talked to my Italian
>horsey pals on thenet and the Appaloosa saddles are very popular over
>there....
>
>chris paus & star
>
>At 05:57 PM 1/28/98 EST, Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>>
>>
>>There was no mention of pivoting bars. It seemed to be a rigid tree,
>>with no panels of any sort between tree and horse. (If I remember
>>correctly.) When you looked at it it looked like the seat was far
>above
>>the saddle, but it didn't really feel that way. I couldn't reach the
>>stirrups, don't know about the balance. They claimed Maggie Price
>had
>>just bought two of them. I'm sorry, I do not remember the name of
>the
>>saddle. I don't remember them mentioning the word Trooper. I am
>>familiar with the Field Trial type saddles and this really didn't
>>resemble them.
>>
>>Sorry I can't be of much help,
>>Angie
>>
>>>from
>>4-5866] Re that Italian
>>>saddle-was it a"Universal Pattern Trooper"?If it was
>>>,it may have had those pivoting sidebars I mentioned,and this would
>>>have
>>>accounted for the rep saying,in all sincerity,"it fits all
>>>horses".That's
>>>erroneous,of course,but pivoting side bars do go a long way toward
>>>solving the saddle fit problem.What was the brand name on that
>>>saddle?I've not seen an Italian trooper,but I did recently see a
>>>photo
>>>of mounted present day border militia in China or Mongolia or
>>>Gazeekistan
>>>or some-such,mounted on-you guessed it-bronze arch slung-seat
>trooper
>>>saddles,all rather the worse for wear,as were the riders.Tough
>looking
>>>
>>>characters!I'll bet they'd be competitve in Endurance competition.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
>>Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
>>Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From: "Cam/Shannon Wood" <wood.cameron@acd.net>
Subject: Re: Saddle fitting--horsey hubby
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 98 08:58:30 PST
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> Wouldn'tcha know it...the guy is a natural. I can't even FIND my leg, much
> less put in the right place, and this man is already doing sidepasses and
> transitions without even trying.
> Sigh. Life is so unfair............
Michelle,
The same thing happened to me. My black-belt karate hubby decided to
ride horses (so he could spend some time with me :-) )
and he rides like he was born to the saddle! It helps that he has rubber
bands for hip ligaments and an incredible sense of where his body is at all
times (dare I call it grace?)
I bought him a 3 yr old arab a few years ago and he's out beating me on
25CTRs now........and I lost my endurance crew to boot.
You're right. Life is unfair......
Shannon
> Michelle
>
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From: "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: clinics
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:31:47 -0600
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Hey Guys!!
There is a problem here with there being a lack of education on the
part of many of our riders, new and old.
I have 2 suggestions.
One: (I am already doing) is putting on small clinics, for a small
fee, to get the new riders educated on endurance and the philosophy that
"To finish is to Win." I have had an excellent turnout.
Two: You can have a lecture before the ride meeting regarding certain
topics.
If you do not have a mentor in the sport, it can sometimes be very
hard to understand why you need to do LSD or why it takes 2-3 years to
develope a winning endurance horse, etc.
JUst a thought....
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From: "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net>
To: "Marinera" <Marinera@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: 25, 50 & 100 Just do it!
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 07:36:29 -0600
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BRAVO!!!!!!
----------
> From: Marinera <Marinera@aol.com>
> To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: 25, 50 & 100 Just do it!
> Date: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 1:08 PM
>
> I was going to keep quiet for awhile, but find it too hard. First of
all, if
> we all spend as much time on ridecamp as I do, we'll never get around to
> training our horses for any length and that will be the end of endurance
> riding!!
>
> I would like to encourage riders to be less afraid of moving up to the
longer
> rides. Hundreds of riders have started out with hundred mile ride as the
> first effort. Honest, that is a fact. A 50 is not twice as tough as a
25, a
> hundred is not twice as tough as a 50. You can do it. If you are in
over
> your head, pull at the next vet check. So no harm done except maybe to
your
> ego, but not the horse. At least then you'll know what you and your horse
can
> do. Every experienced rider knows that a fast 50 is harder on a horse
than an
> average 100. So just keep your head screwed on right and at least try.
> I would like to add my voice to those of Kim Fue, Joe Long, Bob Morris
Ramey,
> Peticolas-Stroud, Ann Blankenship, Truman Prevatt, Terry Wooley-Howes,
Glenda
> Snodgrass, Peggy Norton and many others. Since there are many new members
of
> ridecamp, and at the risk of being redundant, I am re-posting something I
sent
> to ridecamp over a year ago. I still feel the same way.
> Julie Suhr
>
> Originally posted in Jan. 1997.
> Maybe some background on limited distance rides is in order. Endurance
riding
> was flourishing before the advent of 25 LD rides and there are hundreds
of
> people out there who have never done a limited distance ride. Nobody
> fought the concept of limited distance rides more than I did originally
and
> few are in favor of it as much as I am now. My antagonism was that when
I
> started endurance riding there was one ride only..the Tevis Cup Ride.
There
> was no one to go to for advice except Wendell Robie who said "keep them
lean
> and have a wet saddle blanket in the barn at night". And so I overrode
and
> underfed. There were no electrolytes, fanny packs, heart monitors or
other
> of the accouterments that we consider so necessary today and which I
depend
> on totally. The pulse requirement was 72. Both the horse and I sank
> miserably at the first vet check on our maiden voyage. I learned that
the
> backbone of the Sierra was more formidable than the golf course I trained
> around. I learned that I was not fit and I learned that I was riding the
> wrong breed. Help came in the form of a horse loaned to me that lived at
the
> end of the Tevis trail, was trained on the trail and it was a walk in
the
> park. And I was hooked. Hooked to the point where I could not wait a
whole
> year for the Tevis Ride to come back (still the only ride, remember).
And so
> in 1967 I started the Castle Rock Challenge Ride..the oldest 50 miler in
the
> U.S. The Auburn people poo pooed a little ride of fifty miles, but I was
> trying to draw on a local group and they simply were not as turned on as
I by
> the challenge of a 100 miler. Well, as time went on, many people for
> various reasons did not want to go fifty miles, but they wanted to be
> endurance riders so the concept of 25 milers arrived upon the scene. For
> those of us who egos were for whatever reason somehow tied up with being
> "endurance " riders, the thought of others coming along and diluting our
> sport was awful. Some ride managers were convinced that they could not
make
> ends meet without the added income from LD riders. And so LD rides began
to
> be incorporated into the 50 and 100 mile events, but ONLY after it was
> written in the AERC Handbook "that an endurance ride by definition, is
not
> less than 50 miles". Our fragile egos were preserved and less ambitious
> riders had the shorter trail to fulfill their needs. As time went on, I
> became a fan of LD rides. I saw the benefits for young new horses, the
> introduction to a sport for new riders who could make a personal decision
as
> to whether to set their goals on higher mileage, stay where they were or
> decide it wasn't for them anyway. In addition, it did bail some rides
out
> financially.
> With the risk of alienating some, which I regret, 25 miles does not
require a
> tremendous amount of training and its participants have not really
proven a
> whole lot. I can swim, but I am not an Olympic swimmer. I can jog, but
I am
> not a marathon runner. I do not think this makes me a lesser person. It
> means that in these particular fields I am not a shining star. But I can
> ride fifty or a hundred miles and this does make me an endurance rider.
It
> means that I have done my home work and I have had personal aspirations.
> There is another category of riders.... those who because of personal
> problems, physical disabilities, time restraints or other reasons cannot
opt
> for the longer distances but they love their horses, they love the
trails,
> they want to be a part of the whole scene. And so we have 25 milers and
> everyone should be happy. I realize that I, sooner than 99 percent of
the
> people in this sport, will be forced to cut back to 25 milers. (I just
seem
> to pre-date most of the people riding). When that time comes, I hope
that
> God will give me the grace to accept the fact that I am no longer an
> endurance rider, I am an ex-endurance rider. (Hey, if Joe Montana can be
an
> ex-football player, I guess I can be an ex-endurance rider). I watched
my
> wonderful Gazal's dam at age 25 do her first LD ride with an 8 year old
on
> her back. That didn't make either of them an endurance horse or an
endurance
> rider, but, boy, were we proud. One of the best horseman I have ever
known,
> (now gone) could not have ridden 25 miles due to a disability. My
admiration
> for
> him was greater than for any of my 100 mile cohorts. No, he was not an
> endurance rider in my book but he ranks higher in my mind than any that
are.
> So let's each find our place in the sun and be happy that we can be out
there
> at all..regardless of our chosen distance.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:58:54 -0800
From: "Raymond O'Donohue" <rayo@cfw.com>
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To: lth <lth@lightspeed.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Saddles?
References: <199801290407.UAA28306@lsbsdi15.lightspeed.net>
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lth wrote:
>
> Just curious . . . . . . . . Has anyone ever used a saddle made by
> the "Custom Tree and Saddle Co." in Chapmansboro, TN? I noticed they
> make an endurance type saddle that can be made with 3-way adjustable
> stirrup positions. Their URL is www.steelesaddle.com
>
> Linda Hedgpeth
> Wasco, CA
> lth@lightspeed.net That is the Steele saddle;they also are a custom tree outfit,and
are very nice people.The Steele can be acquired free as a road test model
with a very hefty deposit to cover Steele's risk. The Steele is a top
quality item,a modern day derivative of the plantation saddle genre,altho
it is not much like a Buena Vista.Not a high tech saddle in any way,which
may be a good thing.They will work closely with you,and make things your
way,but in many ways,the Steele is "neither here nor there",in my
opinion.It is a very conventional saddle,and I think the advantage it
poses would be the fact that they will work with you to get it the way
you need it.They have a web site,search "Steele Saddle"
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:15:29 -0500 (EST)
From: "LYNN M. Crespo" <lynn@hpd.acast.nova.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Elevated serum Potassium
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980129090518.13492A-100000@hpd.acast.nova.edu>
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Looking at the blood work it does seem odd that potassium is so elevated.
That level of potassium is usually considered life threatening due to its
effects on electrical activity of the heart and nervous system. I suspect
there may be something else occuring in the blood collection process.
A good question to ask is how long after drawing the blood was it
centrifuged to separate the red blood cells from the plasma. If there was
a long delay the cells in the blood will start to lyse (break apart) and
release their contents into the serum. Cells are loaded up with
potassium, so if they break down they dump LOTS of potassium into the
serum. This is probably what is occuring.
Just to be safe, it would be important to know if the collection process
is the reason. There are many other causes of hyperkalemia besides the
most common one your vet listed...you really want to be sure. The
following list is not even complete, and bear in mind these diseases are
relatively rare:
1. Hemolytic anemia
2. Renal failure (even in early stages)
3. Endocrine (adrenocortical insufficiency)
4. Non-steroidal antiinflammatory drugs *Bute* - Check this one!
5. Interstitial nephritis (inflammation of the kidneys)
6. Certain malignancies
7. Excessive intake - Possibly
Just posing a few more questions to ask!
Lynn
L. M. Crespo, Ph.D.
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Pharmacology
Nova-Southeastern University
lynn@hpd.acast.nova.edu
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Barbara Madill <madill@teleplex.net>
Subject: Florida 100 results
These are NOT official -- my non-horsey cousin did a good job, but I'm not
sure about Lightweight 2nd & 3rd positions since those riders moved up from
60 and had different pinney numbers.
Grand Champion
Runabunch, 7 year old Arabian gelding, ridden by Diane Waldron,
Brooksville, FL
Reserve Champion
Baywind Adar, 16 year old Morgan gelding ridden by Donna Smith
Curtin, Mt. Laurel, NJ
Lightweight Division
1 Jahim Moniet, 10 year old Arabian gelding, ridden by Alison Kopp, Jupiter, FL
2 Bizarr, 7 year old 1/2 Arabian gelding, ridden by Marion Hawthorne,
Jupiter, FL (moved up from 60. These two positions may have been
reversed.)
3 Wiska, 14 year old unregistered mare ridden by Lu-Ann Wilson, Jupiter, FL
(moved up from 60. These two positions may have been reversed.)
Middleweight Division
1 Nonsuch Zaim, 8 year old Arabian gelding, ridden by Barbara Madill,
Columbus, NC
2 Moyle Miles, 7 yar old Moyle gelding, ridden by Becky Siler, Clermont, FL
Heavyweight Division
1 Silko Buzz, 10 year old Arabian gelding, ridden by Norma Caron, Altoona, FL
2 Touch, 8 year old unregistered gelding, ridden by Joe Baker, Sanford, FL
3 Southern Exposure, 7 year old Arabian gelding, ridden by Leah Waldron,
Brooksville, FL
4 Count Be Fast, 9 year old Arabian gelding, ridden by Matthew Mackay-Smith,
White Post, VA
5 AM Mister Gypsy, 9 year old Arabian gelding, ridden by Winkie
Mackay-Smith, White Post, VA
6 Novator Prince, 8 year old Arabian gelding, ridden by Debbie Price,
Altoona, FL
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Return-Receipt-To: llayman@neorx.com
Subject: Question of the Week-Reply
I usually have weekends off, at least part of each day. I work in
medical research 40+ hours a week, go to school 20+ hours a week (plus
homework), and have one horse, one dog, one cat and one very neglected
boyfriend (he's very brave to stick around). I did 50 mile rides last
season and will be moving up to 75's by the end this season. That is,
if all goes well and my instructors are lenient about Fridays... I
have a trainer who works my horse in dressage once a week and I ride
on the weekends. I found two years ago that I could do a slow L.D.
Ride with little or no conditioning and still get those A's on the vet
card that indicate I haven't hurt him. So I figure if I'm careful,
with decent conditioning, I can get him into his first 50 of this
season which will only increase his conditioning. Then it's on to
75's, 100's and Tevis. :) Yes, I'm an optimist (a very careful one).
Linda-Cathrine (29) and Magic Jake (9)
Seattle/Tacoma, WA
>Okay - the question of the week - for those of you who actually get
>the weekends off to go to rides, everyone wants to know, what
>distance do you ride, how many horses do you have and what pray tell
>do you do for a living? You don't have to give your age, but if you
>were born before Kennedy was elected that would be good to know too!
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <c88aac67.34d0ab40@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:15:58 EST
To: dfletche@gte.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: USFS simply does not want us!!!
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In a message dated 98-01-28 23:55:46 EST, you write:
<<
Among other things, on the California and Washington sites, you will find
information on legislation that may affect your use of backcountry trails.
Even if you are not a member, your help in writing letters to appropriate
people on this issues would be appreciated. Even on somewhat local issues
such as the proposed changes to stock use in California wilderness areas by
USFS, keep in mind they could very easily be extended to other USFS
forests - and the precedent would already be set.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net >>
You wrote this at an appropriate time. My Nat'l Forest just decided to CHARGE
us a daily fee (you can get annual permit, too) to ride here. I live in the
middle of the Wayne Nat'; Forest.
I normally do not mind paying for use, BUT, there is NO trail maintenance and
the trails are closed Dec. 15 to April 15.
Really, it is a JOKE and a TRAVESTY!!!! When I moved here 9 yeras ago, three
local guys cleared trail oin their own time and at thier own expense. I
started to join in when trhe USFS said: No need, We'll do it for you!!! (i.e.
we don't want you to do it, we don't trust you). I managed several rides here
to prove the need (they said there weren't enough riders to get funding to
maintain trails in past). THEN, they closed trails in winter/spring...said
too much trail damage. Well, THEY put the trail through bogs, not us. WE
don't ride when the mud is that bad. Not many ride in winter anyway. Four-
wheelers illegally used part of the trail and chewed it up (getting US thrown
off that section).
There is NO trust here!!!! They said they would maintain trails, they didn''t
want US taking chainsaws out there to get rid of downed trees. So NOW, most
of the time you don't know if you can even negotiate parts of the trail. Call
them and it takes 4 months for them to send in somebody with a chainsaw.
About the closure of trails....they put up signs at all trailheads. Said
they'd fine people for riding "off season". We hardly ever see anyone out
there anymore. I know of NO ONE who has been ticketed. I live near and ride
on the more remore sections.
I NEVER mind paying a fee. but this is ludicrous!!! What do I get for my
money?
They built a big new headquarters building, have tons of cars and trucks, yet
we hardly see anything being done other than mangement of timbering. They
already farm out their campground and recreational areas. They won't be able
to patrol this or even collect enough fees to pay for anything. There are
MANY other places to ride. Most people trailer out here anyway, now they will
go elsewhere. Then they will say: Not enough usage to warrant trail
management. I can see the writing on the wall...they simply do not want us
out there...
BTY, the fee is for Mtn. bikers, off-road and horses...FREE for hikers.
Pissed in Ohio
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <224ec4e2.34d0ab45@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:03 EST
To: SandyDSA@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
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In a message dated 98-01-29 01:33:08 EST, SandyDSA@AOL.COM writes:
<<
Joke of the day from my daughetr -
If a tiny burro is called a burrito, what would you call a little judge? >>
A judgitto?
Don't get it....
How about:
What do you call a lawyer with a 40 IQ?
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <245b6167.34d0ab44@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:01 EST
To: lth@lightspeed.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Saddles?
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In a message dated 98-01-29 01:33:05 EST, lth@lightspeed.net writes:
<< ust curious . . . . . . . . Has anyone ever used a saddle made by
the "Custom Tree and Saddle Co." in Chapmansboro, TN? I noticed they
make an endurance type saddle that can be made with 3-way adjustable
stirrup positions. Their URL is www.steelesaddle.com
Linda Hedgpeth
Wasco, CA
lth@lightspeed.net >>
My personal opinion is that the workmanship is not all that great. Also, I
hear through the grapevine that this guy has been through many a lawsuit over
the years...no details, but I was told to beware... I think he had a booth at
Equitana..talked a good story, but he is NO distance rider...
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <1a2269e7.34d0ab42@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:15:59 EST
To: KimFue@aol.com, bobrow@pacbell.net
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: AERC Board Meeting Minutes
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In a message dated 98-01-29 01:26:48 EST, KimFue@AOL.com writes:
<< I think being a well informed member would be a great
start. If you are not able to publish the minutes including the voting
record
in EN or a website please let me know the reason why this information is not
made available to AERC members.
Kim Fuess
>>
Ditto.....I want to vote for people who think like I do. If they vote a
certain way, I have the right to know. It works this way in the congress and
senate..why not with AERC?
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <50d75167.34d0ab4d@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:11 EST
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: my last comment on this
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In a message dated 98-01-29 01:59:45 EST, jlong@mti.net writes:
<< And I guess that's the bottom line AFAIC -- recognition should be
earned, not demanded.
>>
May I call this the unofficial "quote of the week?"...it is true in almost
everything we do....
Teddy
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Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:19:34 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <34D0B0C7.218C@inetworld.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:39:36 -0800
From: Terry Woolley Howe <cancer@inetworld.net>
Reply-To: twhowe@inetworld.net
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To: "Budler, Cindy" <natcon@afrox.boc.com>
CC: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Troxel
References: <c=ZA%a=_TELKOM400%p=AFROX%l=SRV_MIS05-980129100734Z-1424@srv-mis05.afrox.boc.com>
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Budler, Cindy wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Can someone help me with an internet e-mail address or fax number for
> the Troxel manufacturers in San Diego ? I cannot get through to them by
> telephone and don't have a fax number for them. I believe their address
> is 1333 30th street,San Diego, CA 92154.
> I apologise for sending to the list but I am desperate to get hold of
> them.
>
> Thanks,
> Cindy
Cindy,
Their telephone number is 619/424-4900. I just called them and got
through so I know it's a good number. Their fax number is 619/424-4886.
Terry Woolley Howe
San Diego
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e02b33e7.34d0ab49@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:07 EST
To: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Convention
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In a message dated 98-01-29 01:33:08 EST, truman.prevatt@netsrq.com writes:
<< maybe the convention
should be held in Lexington four of five years and Reno on the fifth.
>>
Hell, no flames!!!! I would like to see it all over the USA...St. Louis,
Denver, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, Houston..etc...
I sure think it would be good for the sport and AERC!!!!
Unfortunately, in the 14 years of attending, I have YET to hear a speaker...us
vendors (thanks to all of you) are too busy to get out olf our booths.
Yes, is was a good convention, but there is MUCH room for improvement. The
office did NOT take advantage of much more that was offered..and it was
offered.
Some of us toured the Kentucky Horse Park on Sunday.....it was delightful.
Tours of the Lexington farms and vet clinics could have been done as well.
Living two hours from there, I know.
Now it is MY turn to be flamed....
Teddy
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From: RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Message-ID: <5a5ee4e7.34d0ab4b@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:08 EST
To: ridecamp-d-request@endurance.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Respect
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In a message dated 98-01-29 01:34:16 EST, ridecamp-d-request@endurance.net
writes:
<< As Sandy said earlier.. The GLORY is in the completion
and for us in the doing...something that few others have accomplished or
even tried.
"Soapbox Mode Off":-)
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla) >>
You are SOOO right...I do this because I like to ride, I like the people and I
love to see new places...AND, you are even MORE right...very few people really
appreciate it outside our little clan....
Teddy
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:19:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Pamela M. Corley" <pcorley@hsc.usc.edu>
Reply-To: "Pamela M. Corley" <pcorley@hsc.usc.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
cc: Cris Potmesil <camelot@fascination.com>
Subject: Re: SR Saddle web site
In-Reply-To: <199801281114.LAA21596@fascination.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SV4.3.94.980129081313.12089A-100000@hsc.usc.edu>
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The address was slightly wrong. The correct address is:
http://www.nhdid.com/sr-saddleco/
Pamela Corley
pcorley@hsc.usc.edu
On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Cris Potmesil wrote:
> Are you positive about this URL?? I've been trying all morning and
> keep getting a "no DNS entry" error.
> Cris
> Green River, Wyo.
> camelot@fascination.com
>
> >SR web site is: http://www.nhid.com/sr-saddleco/
> > Phone # is 541 317 0135
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Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:56:20 -0800 (PST)
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 08:56:15 -0800 (PST)
From: K S Swigart <katswig@deltanet.com>
To: Beth Glace <lb@nismat.org>
cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: my last comment on this
In-Reply-To: <199801282105.QAA14411@voon.nismat.org>
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On Wed, 28 Jan 1998, Beth Glace wrote:
> performances at all distances. Many people on this site have
> expressed the feeling that if your ultimate goal is not 100s you just
> are just not welcome on the endurance scene, but oh, please pay the
> fee anyway. I hate to see such narrow mindedness expressed.
Maybe some of the ridecamp mail is not making it into my mail box, but I
do not recall ANYBODY on this site (nor has anybody ever said it at an
endurance ride that I have been to) expressing the above stated feeling.
Please, can anybody send me just ONE example from the archives of this
mailing list that demonstrates this. Quote it word for word. I'm not
going to look through the archives for it myself to find this. If any of
you think it's there, find it and send it to me.
And if anybody perceived something that somebody said to mean that, even
if they didn't actually come out and say it, then it is the listener who
belives it, not the speaker.
kat
Orange County, Calif.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:02:59 -0600
From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
Organization: Manuel LaBoure Ranch
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Subject: Forgot the other horse
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When I mentioned a horse I had for sale the other day, I forgot to
mention that we also have a wonderful endurance prospect. He is a 3/4
Arabian, 1/4 quarter horse, liver chestnut with star and 3 sox. People
tell us he is "elegant looking." About 15.1 or 15.2 (haven't measured
lately). DOB is 6/9/93. He has a lot of get up and go, has potential
of being a Tevis horse! Responsive to rider. Has the most wonderful
trot! Loads great into trailer, goes everywhere pointed on the trail,
crosses water, etc. etc. Needs experienced rider. Asking $3,000. We
live near LBJ National Grasslands in Decatur, Tx. If interested, email
me and I'll answer any questions I can. Thanks.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:21:36 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
Subject: Re: Magic Water Crystals
>I am not sure that making leg wraps with the crystals will cool
>the horse off that much.
I have a set of these. If you just use cold water they
do warm up too quickly. So, after a suggestion probably
from this list I decided to freeze them. After the ride
I went to put them on... and they were frozen shut. Hm.
I stuck them into a bucket of water and after working with
them for 10 minutes got them unstuck. But then they didn't
conform to the leg.
What works is to 1/2 freeze them... like a slush. Then
they will stay cold for 20 minutes which is all you want
anyways. Freeze them and then let them thaw half way in
a bucket of cold water.
:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer
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From: John Teeter <johnt@fsr.com>
Reply-To: "johnt@fsr.com" <johnt@fsr.com>
To: "'RUN4BEAR'" <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: Convention
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:59:49 -0800
Organization: First Step Research
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moscow? :>
johnt
On Thursday, January 29, 1998 8:16 AM, RUN4BEAR [SMTP:RUN4BEAR@aol.com] wrote:
> In a message dated 98-01-29 01:33:08 EST, truman.prevatt@netsrq.com writes:
>
> << maybe the convention
> should be held in Lexington four of five years and Reno on the fifth.
> >>
>
> Hell, no flames!!!! I would like to see it all over the USA...St. Louis,
> Denver, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, Houston..etc...
>
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:56:51 EST
To: Marinera@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: 25, 50 & 100 Just do it!
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Hooray for Julie...You are my hero and a shining star in my book. Now can we
get on with our lives and ride the distance we want without all of this
whineging [Australians will recognize that word even though I mispelled it].
By the way folks, believe it or not and you won't until you do one, 100 milers
and sometimes a lot easier than 50's. Becky Hart told me that when she talked
me into doing my first 100 miler by offering to be my crew. She was
right....Maryben Stover
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:01:21 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
CC: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>,
"'zebella@idt.net'" <zebella@idt.net>
Subject: Re: The great Molasses debate
References: <B1E505F17237D111A8DC0000F81ED95447DF1C@CS0007>
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Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT) wrote:
>
> Kathleen Crandell,
> I once heard that molasses also contained some b vitamins and iron. Is
> this true?
>
> Thanks,
> Suzanne
I'll catch this one (I don't think Kathleen Crandell is actually on the
list)---molasses does contain some b-vitamins, but minimal amounts
considering you're not feeding very much. Also, horses synethize
B-vitamins in the gut all by themselves (except for B-12), so the b
vitamin content of a feed for horses is pretty much irrelevant.
Molasses is a good source of iron--it gets it from the equipment used to
process it. But then, most feeds contain PLENTY of iron as well and any
horse getting a decent ration is going to be getting more than enough
iron.
The primary advantages to molasses are the increase in palatability and
it decreases dust during manufacturing and feeding and helps bind
pellets together a bit.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:23:45 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: Truman Prevatt <truman.prevatt@netsrq.com>
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Subject: Re: Convention
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Truman,
The Ky program was a "team" effort and I cannot take all the credit.
As you point out, the good news was that many of our speakers were
locals and donated their time, but our participation (800 to 900 people
I think) wasn't as good as in the West. I haven't heard a cash flow
report yet but traditionally AERC loses money on East Coast
conferences. I suspect that AERC could do a better job of marketing
though.
Anyway, many of the speakers have already volunteered to be in Reno next
year to repeat their talks to riders who were not in Ky. Many new
speakers will be in Reno as well. I'd like to see a two-track program
that presents both novice and advanced materials.
Ramey
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Ridecamp administration - Re: Way of Life
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:15:37 -0800
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> Okay - the question of the week - for those of you who actually get the weekends
> off to go to rides, everyone wnats to know,what distance do you ride, how many
> horses do you have and whatpray tell do you do for a living? You don't have to
There are 800+ people on the list. I'd like to request that individuals
send their responses to Sandy privately, and then she can tell the
group what the stats are later.
This is a tremendous forum, but it's becoming almost unmanageable.
From a system admin perspective as well as that of many of
the subscribers.
There are a few things that would help keep down the number of posts,
and not detract from the quality:
1. Please do not post a 'me too' message to the list. Once a point
has been made, it doesn't need to be reiterated.
2. Please do not discuss religion, politics, sex, helmets or dogs in camp.
This has always been a great group - considerate, helpful, interesting.
I really don't want to change much - just keep the noise down a little :)
Steph
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:05:59 EST
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Hi everyone: The January Shine and Shine Only ride has been cancelled as of
this morning. As you know, it is not shining here. All ride entries will be
rolled over to the February 28 ride unless I hear differently. If you aren't
sure, just let me know sometime prior to the February ride if you want any
changes made. Either e-mail me or call me at 408-265-0839. See you in
February....I hope.
Maryben Stover
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:22:39 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: truman.prevatt@netsrq.com (Truman Prevatt)
Subject: Re: 25, 50 & 100 Just do it!
>By the way folks, believe it or not and you won't until you do one, 100 milers
>and sometimes a lot easier than 50's. Becky Hart told me that when she talked
>me into doing my first 100 miler by offering to be my crew. She was
>right....Maryben Stover
Actually I usually ride 50's crewless - that is crewless not clueless - and
100's with a crew. The 50's can be harder. The hardest ride I ever did was
the Gunninson 50 in Gunninson, CO in 1996. Lost two back shoes, had to
find, fix, fit, lose and cuss at easy boots on the trail. Ended up walking
- leading my horse for about 10 miles myself over the rocks - hoping
against hope the vet would pull me at the 35 mile check. No such luck. I
was told in a snickering voice the horse looks great - I looked like hell.
I found two of the correct size easy boots - thanks (I think) to the
wonderful riders in the ride and headed out for the last 15 miles with an
hour and a half left. No problem for Misty. I had been doing all the work
up till then. We made it with 10 minutes to spare before cutoff. I have
never been so tired in my life. The only bright spot was Crockett coming
up and handing me a good cold beer.
What amazes me is we do this for fun - I think there may be some medication
for this affiction or I just had too much coffee this morning.
Truman
Truman Prevatt
Mystic "The Horse form Hell" Storm
Little Stormy - getting ready for her first ride in six years
The Rockman, a.k.a Misty Jr.
Jordy, a.k.a. Bridger - Finaly getting his shot
Sarasota, FL
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From: RICMARC@aol.com
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Question of the week:
From the end of April to the first of Nov. I find a
ride to go to just about every weekend.
Pleasure, 20 milers----Competitive 25, 50, two day
25 ers equals 50 100s and I try to do at least
one endurance a year.
I work full time second shift we board horses when the
work is done in the morning I saddle up a horse and get in
2-2 1/2 hours a day. Most of the time I have one horse that
is prime right now i have 2 and a four year old coming along
I call him my future the other two are fifteen
I'm a grandmother of eight lovelies from 24 to 18 months.
most days I don't even have time to pit stop as I have a
taping business---doing rides----a new business Equine Design
and Equine Respiratory Consulting.
Keep on moving and you won't catch any dust. Speaking of
dust my house is always a mess, but I love to cook so there is
always some thing to eat.
Marcy
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:23:25 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Strange Blood Chemistry
References: <199801281841.NAA04917@kira.ici.net>
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> My horse keeps turning up with very elevated potassium levels (7.0-7.3)
> in his blood. The first time I had blood taken on him was after a
> strenuous session of hill exercise and the vet suggested that I
> might have muscle damage and tying up, although no other values
> and nothing physical about the horse indicated this. He recommended
> taking a "resting" blood test to act as a control. We did that last
> week after the horse had been essentially at rest for two weeks with
> no exercise but turnout. The *same* elevated potassium level showed up.
> This has my vet stumped.
Ummmm.....maybe one of the DVMs on the list can comment, but my
understanding has always been to ignore the potassium readings of a
blood sample---this is because the potassium content inside of a blood
cell will continue to leach outside of the cell after the blood has been
drawn, therefore the potassium levels that are measured in the blood
sample do not accurately reflect the potassium levels in the serum while
the blood was in the horse.
And if anyone wants to know why this is so, here's the physiology behind
it---cells maintain what's called an electrical membrane potential by
keeping sodium and potassium compartmentalized away from each other.
Potassium carries a charge and the concentration of potassium is
considerably higher inside a cell than outside of the cell. There are
specialized channels in the membranes of the cell that pump ions back
and forth between the interior of the cell and the fluid outside the
cell in order to maintain this electrical gradient. Okay, I know
everyone's eyes are starting to cross, so here's the part you need to
know---potassium passively leaches from the inside to the outside of the
cell, but requires an energy-driven pump to move potassium back INSIDE
the cell where it belongs. Once blood has been drawn from the body, the
energy is used up, so the little pumps stop. Potassium is still leaching
from the cell into the extracellular fluid, but it's not being pumped
back in...therefore, the measured potassium levels you observe in your
blood sample are going to be considerably higher than the potassium
levels that are ACTUALLY present inside the horse. Inside the horse,
most of the potassium is compartmentalized away, inside the cell, and
the actual potassium in the fluid outside is considerably lower.
So, unless I am badly misunderstanding something from your post, you can
totally ignore the potassium readings, because they don't mean a thing.
Hope this helps.
Susan Garlinghouse
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Subject: Apprenticeship
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:40:19 -0500
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Hello Ridecamp!
Just can'nt seem to lay off this keyboard lately.
I started endurance about 6 years ago by hooking up with an experienced
rider in the Southeast by the name of Ann Cofield.
I am sure many of you know her.
Anyway on the subject of Apprenticeship I thought that I would just
mention that Ann puts on several clinics each year, donating her
personal time, and energy to this endeavor.
There are many new members to this sport and it is very hard sometimes
to tell if the idea is a flat out Horse race or not.
There seems to be a lot of emphasis placed on finish placings and
awards, I would like to see more emphasis placed on long term
accomplisments of the horse/rider team, even in the limited distance
arena.
Would we lose most of the membership of AERC if you had to wait until
you and your horse had 1000 miles or more of competition before you
recieved any recognition?
When AERC was formed did'nt they frown on extravagent awards for this
very reason?
There are endurance members who do happen to have a different horse
every season, after all horses are relatively cheap.
I am not advocating anything I am just describing what I have observed.
I myself had to retire my first endurance prospect due to DJD, and now
my second endurance horse I don'nt believe has the stable mentality for
endurance so I am looking for another one.
By the way, how many rides can the average experienced endurance rider
make in 1 year, or
does anyone know what the average yearly mileage is for a top endurance
athlete?
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:03:11 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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To: "Shelley @ TRC" <trc@gte.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: National Rider Development Program
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Shelly, did you see the post on the AERC International Committee's
National Rider Development Program?
Basically, the proposal calls for the development of 24 one-hour blocks
of training which represents two seperate week-end seminars. By
splitting the lesson plans, handouts and audio visuals into one-hour
blocks, the materials can also be presented in smaller segments over
time.
For example, we have presented 12 week endurance classes on Thursday
nights through the local riding club/community college. Funny, the
majority of students turned out to be eventers and trail riders. Of the
30 or so students we had about 12 did their first endurance ride the
following summer.
The one-hour segments could also be presented at rides on Fridays or
Sundays, or maybe both. Obviously, the audio visuals in a ridecamp
setting would be harder to do, but better than no education at all.
Instructors for the classes and seminars would probably be experienced
riders who had attended an adult education class presented at the 1999
AERC conference. In other words, riders would receive the classes in a
train-the-trainer hand-off format. All lesson plans, a/v's, etc. would
be duplicated 10 times over to allow each AERC Region to have it's on
seminar packages. This costs more but is intended to prevent scheduling
conflicts.
All of this was approved in concept in KY. Now final details are being
developed for presentation at the mid-year board meeting. To make sure
this detail work is on target, we want to appoint a National Rider
Development Program Advisory Panel in the next 30 days.
Do you and all other ridecampers have any thoughts about who should be
on the Advisory Panel? It needs to be broad-based.
Ramey
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From: LazyJArabs@aol.com
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:58:00 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
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Distance: 50 (did one 20 mile CTR before the 50, our very first)
Horse: 1 (Ariel...but want many, many more)
Occupation: Graphic designer (major software company)/web designer (on the
side)
Weekends: Alpine skiing in the winter and riding rides, going to clinics,
surfing, traveling and other stuff in the summer
Other spare time: Member of WAY too many horsey clubs
Age: 30
Liz
----------
Elizabeth Johanson & CA Royalty (Ariel)
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/eajohanson/ArabianWebs/">Arabian Web Sites</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/lazyjarabs/">Lazy J Arabians</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/wildhrsemm/">Wild Horse Multimedia</A>
Maple Valley/Hobart, Washington, USA
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'Brad Patterson'" <mbp@holly.colostate.edu>,
"ridecamp@endurance.net"
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Cc: "step@bluefish.fsr.com" <step@bluefish.fsr.com>,
"ramey@wvi.com"
<ramey@wvi.com>,
"equine_athletes@hotmail.com"
<equine_athletes@hotmail.com>,
"MBowers472@aol.com"
<MBowers472@aol.com>,
"renegade12@juno.com" <renegade12@juno.com>
Subject: RE: sanctioing LD rides
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:19:23 -0800
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Not in so many words. The general discussion was that this should
not be happening, but that AERC has no way of knowing if and when
it is. All seemed to agree that it was illegal, but according to some
there is in fact no binding rule to this affect.
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Patterson [SMTP:mbp@holly.colostate.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 10:38 PM
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Cc: step@bluefish.fsr.com; ramey@wvi.com; equine_athletes@hotmail.com; MBowers472@aol.com; renegade12@juno.com
Subject: Re: sanctioing LD rides
Greetings Steph!
Have, or will, Sanctioning Directors be instructed to pull/remove
sanctioning if they find out about an unsanctioned LD ride (25-35 miles)
being held in conjunction with an AERC sanctioned endurance ride and the RM
declines to sanction it?
Happitrails!
Brad.
>Somebody asked a question earlier about whether or not
>LD rides should be sanctioned.
>
>It is against AERC rules to for a ride manager to run
>a non-sanctioned event on the same course, at the
>same time, as a sanctioned (e.g. 50, 100 mile) event.
>(there are a few exceptions to this, such as futurities - IAHA).
>Ride managers can not, by the rules, hold a sanctioned
>50 mile ride, and a non-sanctioned 25 mile ride at the
>same time. It was brought to the attention of the board
>that this currently happens - and AERC really has no way
>of knowing about it... since it's usually announced
>at the ride, or by ride flyer, not through AERC.
>
>Steph
>
>(I'll have some convention updates, when I get caught up! )
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Message-ID: <34D0D557.63D@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:15:53 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
Reply-To: carlmey@citrus.infi.net
Organization: InfiNet
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To: Lthunter <Lthunter@aol.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: What to feed?
References: <707067ca.34cb5827@aol.com>
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Hi,
Have you gotten some help with your feeding questions? I've saved your
message and keep putting off replying, as feeding horses has so many
variables, but I'd be happy to share with you any time.
As a thought, Spiller"s-Seminole feed products, for a prepared feed, I
think are as good as any...they are manufactured here in Fl. in Ocala,
so are fresh each week when brought to the distributors...the delivery
staff from Seminole, rotate the feed each delivery for the distributor.
Their toll free # in Ocala is 1-800-683-1881; they will be more than
happy to advise you and to taylor the feeds best suited to your horse's
needs at this time...I mix my own feed, but usually buy my oats, corn
etc., from a Seminole source.
Seminole just gave me, for the second year in a row, a cash dono of
$250 for my endurance ride, the Fl. Endurance Classic (7 March)...I'm
pleased to recommend their products to all. They're good people.
Florida can be different from other areas, where grazing on decent grass
can be plentiful and nutritious....this is NOT usually the case here...
sandy soils and other management (or lack of) problems prevail..espec-
ially at boarding stables.
Hope this helps some.....by the way, since you're tuned into ridecamp,
are you displaced distance persons? Would you be interested in volun-
teering to do something at the Fl. End. Classic? Sounds as if you're
not conditioning right now, but if that's not the case, come and ride!
Sincerely,
Deena~Meyer,
Inverness, Fl.(Citrus County)
carlmey@citrus.infi.net
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:29:21 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801292029.MAA26710@fsr.com>
Subject: Endurance Saddles
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Barb Peck
Email: bpeck@us.ibm.com
Hi:
DeLurking for this one:
Western type saddles (which includes endurance models w/o horn) have a larger bearing surface to the tree than do English saddles. But that doesn't make one style necessarily better than the other. The different saddle "styles" are mostly for the humans and their choice as to what they want to sit in & feel safe in.
Most horses are incredibly forgiving, considering that they'll still try to please their riders even when their back aches, or their circulation is shunted in specific areas under their saddle. Smart, vocal or horses ridden long distances usually find a way to eventually comunicate any displeasure to their rider.
So bottom line........ it doesn't matter what type of saddle you ride in as long as
it doesn't sore your horse.
I'm a Sharon Saare fitter, as are afew others on this list, and even with the 8 tree sizes I have of Sharons' I couldn't fit one of my *own* horses. I ended up finding a custom saddle maker within 2 hrs. of me that made a custom endurance (no-horn model) saddle for my really-wide shouldered gelding. It ended up costing about the same as a SSaare ($1400.00).
The statement "you get what you pay for" is generally true (with admittedly a few exceptions)but in the case of saddles, even an expensive saddle is worthless if it doesn't fit your horse.
There is one tree I'd stay away from though:
The so-called "ralide" trees are really just plastic
one of the many cheap trees that shorten a saddles life.
These IMO are the worst.
Most english style saddles are fine for long distance riding (IF they fit the horse) if you have them restuffed when needed. They flatten out pretty fast with alot of miles.
Then there are the tree-less saddles, some people love'em some don't... but the same principal still applies.... it must fit your horse. I've seen horses with 2 white spots, right where the riders seat bones are, on a horse ridden in a SS.... and then there are 100 mile horses ridden in them sucessfully without problems.
Then there are saddle pads: you can screw-up a perfectly good saddle fit with the wrong pad & in some cases you can (slightly) improve a saddle's fit with the perfect pad.
Listen to your horses, they'll tell you what fits & what doesn't. And expect to pay more than you thought you could afford... so if you pay less, you'll be happy.;)
Barb
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:49:50 -0800
Subject: renegade12: Message
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From: renegade12@juno.com (Randy H Eiland)
--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: renegade12
To: dfrazier@mail.llion.org
Subject: Message
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:13:19 -0800
Message-ID: <19980129.141402.3158.3.renegade12@juno.com>
At the AERC Convention and Board of Directors Meeting held in Lexington,
KY Dane Frazier was reelected as your President, Louise Riedel was
reelected as your Secretary, Stagg Newman was elected to be your
Treasurer, and I was elected Vice President. I am proud to serve
alongside these dedicated individuals. I have come a long way since I
first heard of and then joined AERC in 1983. My first official Vice
President's Message will be in the FEB/MAR issue of Endurance News, but I
have learned the value of "ridecamp" and it's immediate-personal dialog,
thus you are the recipients of my first unofficial message..
I was elected to the Board in 1992 as a SW Region Director and have
always believed it is an honor to represent both my region and the
members of AERC. It is an equally big honor to represent you as your
Vice President. As a Director I attempted to be a voice "of and for" the
membership, not a voice "to" the membership, and I will continue to
follow this philosophy.
You don't run for office and/or serve on the Board without having a very
large ego. It is the nature of the beast and a fact of life. This being
a truism, it is important for the members of the Board to remember how
they got there, who sent them, and why they were sent. Foremost, it is
the responsibility of the Board to balance the business operations of
AERC with the wishes of the majority of the membership. This is a
difficult task because the Board often deals with hard facts that are
unknown to the membership. Because AERC is a non profit budget driven
business, sometimes the Board must make decisions that are unpopular, an
example being the raising of dues..an absolute necessity for the
continued existence of this great organization and yet a controversial
issue at best.
Contrary to the opponents of the dues increase, AERC membership did not
experience dramatic decreases and, in fact, is slowly growing. AERC is
back on solid, albeit thin, footing with a very positive future. But the
Board, in our desire to continue to increase income, decided at our
Midyear Meeting to charge a Horse Registration Fee that unfairly
impacted new members. Old AERC members were given a grace period to
register their horses at no charge up until Dec. 1, 1997. New Members
had no grace period and, in addition to their dues had to pay $10.00 per
horse per member. The reality being a New Member Dues charge that could
be far in excess of the "stated dues"...and a New Member Family could
really be hit hard. This was a case of the Board speaking "to" the
membership rather than "for" the membership. To the Board's credit, this
was changed at our Sunday meeting in Lexington. All new members are
allowed one horse registration, including one per family member. A
member friendly rules change.
Another positive step was re implementation of the "roll call vote"
allowing the membership to see how their individual Directors voted on
each issue. The addition of a 50 mile National Series Championship (to
be implemented in 1999 as I understand it) is a much needed recognition
of the riding desires of the majority of AERC members. This is a Board
that understands the desires of those we represent.
We have 7 new Board members (actually 6 as Mike Tomlinson has served
before) and they bring new energy, ideas, and enthusiasm to the table.
The blending of this new blood with the experience and dedication of the
existing Board promises to make this one of the best Board of Directors
that AERC has had. We will be faced with many hard issues, but I have
the greatest confidence in the makeup of this Board to work thru the hard
decisions that we will face. This Board represents many different
factions and interests, but there is common thread of dedication and love
for AERC that assures you of the best representation in memory. If you
give us time to work thru the challenges we face, I am confident you will
be as excited as I am with the future of AERC.
Randy Eiland
--------- End forwarded message ----------
_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: 25, 50 & 100 Just do it!
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:05:01 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d4fbf7.22352253@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:56:51 EST, Merryben@aol.com wrote:
>Hooray for Julie...You are my hero and a shining star in my book.
AMEN to that! Julie is one of my "true heros," an inspiration,
someone I look up to and aspire to emulate.
>By the way folks, believe it or not and you won't until you do one, 100 milers
>and sometimes a lot easier than 50's. Becky Hart told me that when she talked
>me into doing my first 100 miler by offering to be my crew. She was
>right....Maryben Stover
There is no doubt that some 100's are easier than some 50's, at least
for the rider.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
9 Jan 1998 22:05:01 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:56:51 EST, Merryben@aol.com wrote:
>Hooray for Julie...You are my hero and a shining star in my book.
AMEN to that! Julie is one of my6646 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002410 06464201223 0013103 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.mti.net (mail.mti.net [208.136.137.7]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA01184 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 14:28:28 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:11:13 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d6fe20.22905244@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:03 EST, RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-29 01:33:08 EST, SandyDSA@AOL.COM writes:
> Joke of the day from my daughetr -
> If a tiny burro is called a burrito, what would you call a little judge? >>
>A judgitto?
>Don't get it....
Say it slooowly ....
"Judge Ito" (O.J. trial)
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Subject: Apprenticeship
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:24:10 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34da00de.23607256@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 13:40:19 -0500, "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)"
<ssolis@lg.com> wrote:
...
>By the way, how many rides can the average experienced endurance rider
>make in 1 year, or
>does anyone know what the average yearly mileage is for a top endurance
>athlete?
This depends primarily on the desires and pocketbook of the rider.
About ten years ago Les Carr rode one horse over 5,000 miles in one
year, but he spent the entire year "on the road" going to rides,
including many week-long multi-day rides.
Typically, two or three horses will do about 2,000 miles in a year,
and quite a few do over 1,000.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Ridecamp administration - Re: Way of Life
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:35:02 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34dd1216.28016818@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 10:15:37 -0800, Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com> wrote:
...
>There are a few things that would help keep down the number of posts,
>and not detract from the quality:
<snip>
I'd like to add another suggestion:
3. When responding to a message, please don't quote the entire message
in your reply. Delete as much as is practical, just leaving in enough
to identify the subject you're addressing. Remember, everyone has
already read all of the material you're quoting!
It is especially wasteful to see a message with quotes going back two
or three previous messages, with only a sentence or two at the end.
Note that this message is an example of judicious quoting. I put the
"..." at the top to indicate that I started quoting after the start of
the original message, and the <snip> to indicate where I cut out other
material.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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From: rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Reply-to: raymond.santana@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 98 15:53:34 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Sewing
X-Mailer: MR/2 Internet Cruiser Edition for OS/2 v1.29 (Unregistered)
Try looking for "Cold Water Packs" .
These already have the crystals in them along with velcro type closures
making them easy to use. I have been using them for many years now, about
10. The Australian Connection carries them at $40 per pair. They seem
pricey but I find them very conventient, easy to use and work in places
where ice is at a premium (water too). You soak them in a buck for at
least an hour and they puff up with a lot of water. Yes they cool by
evaporation (obviously), and they do get warm after about 30 minutes. I
just run about a cup of cold water into them at that time and they cool
right down. I have never had a leg swell up after using them, even with
slight injuries such as nicks fom rocks.
The Australian Connection can be reached at 916-791-1542, or by mail, 9274
Muir Way Granite Bay Ca, 95746. They also are on horse-shop at
www.endurance.net
My first pair of wraps had inferior crystals that retained bacteria and
molds, they rotted out in about a year of use but my latest 2 pairs have
lasted me several years. This is a warning about those crystals, which
were developed for agriculture to help retain water in dry climate soils.
----------------------------------------------------
Raymond Santana
Network Operations
UC Davis Medical Center
Sacramento, CA
rtsantana@ucdavis.edu or
raymond.santana@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------
Raymond Santana
Network Operations
UC Davis Medical Center
Sacramento, CA
rtsantana@ucdavis.edu or
raymond.santana@ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------
have been using them for many years now, about
10. The Australian Connection carries them at $40 per pair. They seem
pricey but I find them very conventient, easy to use and work in places
where ice is at a premium (water too). You soak them in a buck for at
least an hour and they puff up with a lot of water. Yes they6650 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002040 06464220124 0013076 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.13]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA08731 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:35:27 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:31:28 -0800
From: suzy kelley <suzyk@ix.netcom.com>
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To: Kim Fuess <kimfue@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Breast Collars
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This is what a friend of mine was told the other day:
Breast collars impead your horse's forward motion and interfer with their
shoulders. If you use a breast collar in an endurance ride, it will make
you horse lame!
What do you think?????
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To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: RE: renegade12: Message
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:48:00 -0800
Organization: First Step Research
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nice infro ....thanks
<snip>
> .... but there is common thread of dedication and love for AERC that assures ....
Maybe the common thread is ded. & love for the PONIES & RIDES???? :-)
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:41:19 EST
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Debby Lyon
San Luis Obispo, Calif.
7 horses (three retired, one 2 year old, my two endurance horses (5 & 7 years
old) and my husband's endurance horse.
I used to ride a lot of 100's but my 100 mile horse, Isa, is now retired. I
did 25's on my young horse last year, multidays and 50's on the 7 year old. I
hope to do 100's again soon. TEVIS this year I hope.
I am a dentist and was a teenager when Kennedy was elected.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:41:21 EST
To: Marinera@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: 25, 50 & 100 Just do it!
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Julie,
I wasn't on ridecamp when you first posted your letter on 25 milers. I
enjoyed it and agree with it completely. I am so glad you posted it again.
It should be very helpful to new riders, those thinking of trying 50's and
100's, and to those who ride and plan to continue to ride 25's.
Thank you.
Debby
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:25:43 -0600
To: SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
In-Reply-To: <34620c9.34d0038a@aol.com>
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Hi Sandy,
for now I ride 25s because my horse and I just started last year, but we
hope to move up this year sometime. I have 3 equines. -- My grade Arab,
Star, my distance riding horse and best buddy; a grade Morgan I raised from
a foal, Cisco, the old man of the pasture; and a Shetland-Hackney pony,
Honey, we adopted from HorseAid. You are right, I really didn't NEED a
pony, but she is so CUTE.
I am a newspaper reporter and could not likely support my horse habit on my
salary. I am married to a chemist with a good government job....
Yes, I was born before Kennedy was elected. I was in the 7th grade when he
was assassinated. I remember the news accounts vividly. Does that date me
or what???
I also remember when Iron Butterfly and Jefferson Airplane were played only
on underground radio stations!
chris paus & the starman who desperatly needs to be ridden mom.
At 11:20 PM 1/28/98 EST, SandyDSA wrote:
>Okay - the question of the week -
>for those of you who actually get the weekends off to go to rides, everyone
>wnats to know, what distance do you ride, how many horses do you have and
what
>pray tell do you do for a living? You don't have to give your age, but if you
>were born before Kennedy was elected that would be good to know too!
>
>Joke of the day from my daughetr -
>If a tiny burro is called a burrito, what would you call a little judge?
>san
>
>
>
us <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
In-Reply-To: <34620c9.34d0038a@aol.com>
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Hi Sandy,
for now I ride 25s because my horse and I just started last year, but we
hope to move up this year sometime. I have 3 equines. -- My grade Arab,
Star, my distance riding horse and best buddy; a grade Morgan I raised from
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From: Sally Aungier <aungish@unos.org>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Suspended or hammock seat saddles
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:26:32 -0500
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I have ridden in a trooper saddle for several years now and have become
a real supporter of this style. I have used it on about 7-8 differently
built horses with no apparent fit problems. It was first recommended to
me by our local Chiropractic vet who felt that they are one of the
kindest styles saddles on the market. The universal fit is also pretty
appealing to me. I have been able to use it on my new mare that is round
back and wide withered and that nothing else, short of a custom saddle,
seems to fit. I purchased mine through Christie and they were very
accomodating about rigging it english and making other minor adjustments
for me. For those who prefer an english style saddle but want the extra
rings, etc of an endurance saddle, this is not a bad choice. It is also
very comfortable over the distance. The cost (under $600) is also very
attactive. For that price it makes a nice extra saddle to have around.
Sally Aungier
UNOS, Manager for Membership Services
Richmond, VA
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:27:17 -0600
To: MBlanchrd <MBlanchrd@aol.com>, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Saddle fitting
In-Reply-To: <e02aba4e.34d007e9@aol.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi,
Wish I could get my husband to go along on rides. He will play with the
horses, but won't ride. He prefers to stay home and complain about me being
gone to rides!
chris paus & star
At 11:39 PM 1/28/98 EST, MBlanchrd wrote:
>Hi, all,
>
> This is a few days late but I have been busy.....................someone
>mentioned something about an article on saddle fitting in one of the "English
>magazines". "Dressage and CT" magazine's latest issue (Feb 98) has an
>outstanding article about checking to see if your saddle fits. Check it
>out..it has lots of good information.
>
>And regarding husbands at rides. After seeing me work at several of them, my
>husband has finally found a horse sport he wants to try. (no roundyroundy in
>the show ring for him, thank god.) So.............we're taking lessons. I am
>going for the tune up I so badly need, and he's in an English saddle for the
>first time in his life.
>Wouldn'tcha know it...the guy is a natural. I can't even FIND my leg, much
>less put in the right place, and this man is already doing sidepasses and
>transitions without even trying.
>Sigh. Life is so unfair............
>
>Michelle
>
>
>
6657 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002716 06464227535 0013134 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from onramp.micoks.net (onramp.micoks.net [209.153.98.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13799 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:39:35 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:38:34 -0600
To: "johnt@fsr.com" <johnt@fsr.com>, "'RUN4BEAR'" <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: RE: Convention
Cc: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
In-Reply-To: <01BD2C9C.A37F6F40.johnt@fsr.com>
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How about Kansas City? It's in the middle of the country andwe have the
AMerican Royal horse show grounds.
chris paus & star
At 09:59 AM 1/29/98 -0800, John Teeter wrote:
>moscow? :>
>
>johnt
>
>On Thursday, January 29, 1998 8:16 AM, RUN4BEAR [SMTP:RUN4BEAR@aol.com]
wrote:
>> In a message dated 98-01-29 01:33:08 EST, truman.prevatt@netsrq.com writes:
>>
>> << maybe the convention
>> should be held in Lexington four of five years and Reno on the fifth.
>> >>
>>
>> Hell, no flames!!!! I would like to see it all over the USA...St. Louis,
>> Denver, Albuquerque, Oklahoma City, Atlanta, Houston..etc...
>>
>
>
>
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To: KimFue@aol.com
Cc: SandyDSA@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:15:05 -0800
Subject: Re: is this fair?
Message-ID: <19980129.175024.3382.3.krisolko@juno.com>
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From: krisolko@juno.com (Kristen L Olko)
Kim,
. So, what exactly, do you
>(25 mile
>riders who feel this way) mean when you say you want "respect".
It's not an action, it's an attitude. Not to be looked down apon for
doing
such a sissy distance. Not to be told you shouldn't be proud your horse
won a 25. Not to be told that , if my horse was so fast, then I should be
doing 50's. Like competing in 25's is such a bad thing. Maybe the horse
is physically ready for 50 milers, but not mentally (doesn't eat or drink
enough)
Then, not doing a 50, is responsible horsemanship. Putting your parnters
well being before your own wants and desires. I've been to rides
where the 25 milers were told, by the RM, that they were only there to
pay
the bills. I enjoy the 50's more because then I get to ride longer and
test
myself and my horse harder. But I am still proud of my horse's 25 miler
placing record. Because no matter what anyone says, placing in that
distance ( to
a competitive rider) is important. AERC's motto is to finish is to win. A
25 miler
finish is a win and should be respected as such.
Kris
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Reply-To: <bkwranch@cmn.net>
From: "Wolgram's" <bkwranch@cmn.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: way of life
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:05:25 -0700
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.Distance: newbie (horrors!) have done one 25 and one 30...hoping to work
myself and horse up to a 50 by the end of summer...also (horrors!) a NATRC
rider...
Age: 50 in July (horrors---last one, I promise)
Occupation: high school English teacher, so weekends AND summers off...
hubby is an underground coal miner....age 33, yep, that's right.....when I
decided to marry the second time around, couldn't stand the thought of
"growing old together"....so he's keeping me young....we'll be married
eleven years this April, he's the one who got me my first horse ---never
even sat on one before----seven years ago.....a talented, dedicated
horseman, that he is....
Six horses...3 quarterhorses (one's a baby), 2 Arabs (one's a baby), 1
Mustang, 4 mules, and 2 donkeys (adopted wild burro and her baby)...in case
you wonder if we are total freaks, we do a lot of wilderness packing and
hunting....
Betty from Craig, Colorado
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:28:43 -0600
To: Sally Aungier <aungish@unos.org>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Suspended or hammock seat saddles
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
In-Reply-To: <B710321E88FCD011B0B60000F81EE7A2224069@postoffice.unos.net
>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Tucker saddlery also makes a suspended seat saddle
chris paus
At 08:26 PM 1/29/98 -0500, you wrote:
>
>
>I have ridden in a trooper saddle for several years now and have become
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 18:37:47 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801300237.SAA17419@fsr.com>
Subject: 1998 Cosequin Challenge Events
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Event Management
Email: VTCI@aol.com
On January 15, 1998 we officially preannounced the 1998 Cosequin Challenge Endurance Events for the first time here at Endurance Net.
During the AERC convention, the sanctioning of all four events by the AERC was finalized.
At this time, the Cosequin Challenge Endurance Events are sanctioned by the Federation Equestre' International, The International Arabian Horse Association and the American Endurance Ride Conference.
Fifteen days following the preannouncement here on Endurance Net, response has been such that competitor attendance will pass the 50% mark upon return of the applications thus far requested.
Competitors from across the United States, Canada and Europe have thus far expressed interest in attending the event.
The maximum direct sponsor/futurity to competitor contributed cash and prizes are now estimated to possibly exceed the $50,000.00 combined amount for all four events as originally projected.
The event management expresses its sincerest thanks to those supporters of the Cosequin Challenge that have stood by us over the previous 14 months.
A special thanks to Steph at Endurance Net for her support of the event, the combination of our presence on Endurance Net, and our automated forms page for event packets, has proven a winner in providing rapid exchange of information between competitors, sponsors and event mangement.
For those wondering where their information packets are, they next batch will be bulk mailed on February 9, 1998.
Thanks Endurance Net
1998 Cosequin Challenge Event Management
Produced by the non-profit Virginia Trail Conservatory, Inc. a 501-C-3 corporation in the state of Virginia.
All proceeds from the combined events benefit the VTC, Inc.
For details and restrictions, visit the VTC web site at http://members.aol.com/vtci
or write
Cosequin Challenge
c/o VTC
792 Boliver Rd
Fort Valley, Va
22652
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:36:11 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: SR Saddles
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We have 3 --count them 3 SR Enduros.. One new and 2 used.
We love them the best balanced saddle I rode -except my old Fallis Balanced
ride..
THe 'flex' tree design -using fiberglass lameate give enough flex to the
motion of the horses back.. A good cross between a hard back tree and the no
tree saddles.
I have to send two back to steve for a re-fit ..
I cut one open to move some of the stuffing around to get a better fit on my
new horse..Kinda tough to take a razor knife to a saddle that costs $2k to
replace..
They are very well made and really take beating.. I tried other saddles over
the past 25 yrs but the SR is by far the best..
IT fits my horses and me ..
Roger R
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:35:08 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, johnt@fsr.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
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In a message dated 98-01-29 20:43:55 EST, paus@micoks.net writes:
<<
How about Kansas City? It's in the middle of the country andwe have the
AMerican Royal horse show grounds.
chris paus & star
>>
I'd go for that...in fact there is going to be the first "Equifest of Kansas"
in Wichita at the end of February...promises to be good. I am going so I
guess I'll find out.
Teddy
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:58:35 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: sanctioned rides
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Well since i am new to this sport i hope you will not think my question is out
of line. someone please tell me what is the difference between a sanctioned
ride and a non sanctioned ride. i have been reading but can not come up with
this piece of information. thanks kelly
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:28:57 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801300328.TAA20498@fsr.com>
Subject: DeSoto sadlles
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
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From: Rick
Email: Chaos@coiinc.com
Looking for phone No. of Marilyn Horstmyer of DeSoto saddles. Old phone No. (615-263-9371), no longer in service.
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To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:34:31 EST
Subject: Re: Convention
Message-ID: <19980129.233432.4014.3.benamil@juno.com>
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From: benamil@juno.com (David Bennett)
The convention was a lot of fun by itself... However. we went to the
Kentucky Horse Park on our own and ran into some folks from Missouri. We
all wondered as we talked why there was not an organized tour, discount
admission for conventioneers, and other activities. Why have it in the
middle of horse country and stay holed up in a hotel complex downtown?
There is an endurance ride with its base camp at the Kentucky Horse Park
in March. What a great place to have a ride! You can bet that I plan to
be there...
On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:07 EST RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> writes:
>Yes, is was a good convention, but there is MUCH room for improvement.
> The
>office did NOT take advantage of much more that was offered..and it
>was
>offered.
>
>Some of us toured the Kentucky Horse Park on Sunday.....it was
>delightful.
>Tours of the Lexington farms and vet clinics could have been done as
>well.
>Living two hours from there, I know.
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d why there was not an organized tour, discount
admission for conventioneers, and other activities. Why have it in the
middle of horse country and stay holed up in a hotel complex downtown?
There is an endurance ride with its base camp at the Kentucky Horse Par6667 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002665 06464246335 0013137 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from world.evansville.net (world.evansville.net [204.120.16.2]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22009 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:45:29 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:43:49 -0600 (CST)
To: ramey@wvi.com, truman.prevatt@netsrq.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Convention
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Ramey, As you could see, we have a problem getting vendors to show up at
the convention in the east. As a good business move, why not tell a vendor
that if they go to Reno then part of the deal is they also have to show up
in the east. Just another step in running AERC like a business. Did you
notice the lack of west coast folks at Lexingtion? Sometimes I feel like
we are expected to go west but that the west coast riders could care less
about what is going on back here. Just a feeling. Did AERC budget any $
to advertise the convention ? Jerry Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing
JABASK KNIGHT
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Message-ID: <34D14032.1905@citrus.infi.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 21:51:31 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
Reply-To: carlmey@citrus.infi.net
Organization: InfiNet
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To: Joe Long <jlong@mti.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
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Joe Long wrote:
>
> On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:03 EST, RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >In a message dated 98-01-29 01:33:08 EST, SandyDSA@AOL.COM writes:
>
> > Joke of the day from my daughetr -
> > If a tiny burro is called a burrito, what would you call a little judge? >>
>
> >A judgitto?
>
> >Don't get it....
>
> Say it slooowly ....
>
> "Judge Ito" (O.J. trial)
>
> --
>
> Joe Long
> jlong@mti.net
> Business Page http://www.mti.net
> Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
Thank you Joe! and you too Teddy, for being so up front and honest..I
didn't get it either..but figured someone would come up w/the punchline!
I'm still chuckling.
Deena~ Meyer,
Inverness, Fl.
carlmey@citrus.infi.net
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:15:57 -0500
From: carl meyer <carlmey@citrus.infi.net>
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To: Keeyun@aol.com
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: sanctioned rides
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Keeyun@aol.com wrote:
> someone please tell me what is the difference between a sanctioned
> ride and a non sanctioned ride.<snip>
Hi Kelly,
Sanctioning a ride is to have it approved on a regional ride calendar
according to the rules of an organization (AERC); to come under
the umbrella of standardization by which the event will be conducted,
ie: welfare of the horses,etc. and to have data of ride results recorded
by the sanctioning body ( AERC in this case), for future use in awards
presentations. This is the basic explanation of a SANCTIONED event vs.
an UNsanctioned one....if one attends an Unsanctioned event, one has
no quarantee of any standardization, and in dealing with a living entity
such as the horse, in stressful competition, one would want sanctioning
of a recognized organization, with its set of rules and regs. to guide
the program and to fall back on in case of controversy.....ride manage-
ment pays a fee per rider back to AERC for this priviledge of partici-
pation in a Sanctioned event; a non-sanctioned event could be run
ACCORDING to the rules and regs. of a known body, such as AERC, and NOT
pay the per rider fee, and NOT have the "approval" of the org., but if
something goes amiss (sp), then who are you going to talk to to resolve
or handle the problem? There is also a blanket insurance of some sort
involved in going with the sanctioning body....it IS the thing to do.
A fun ride, let's say, could be run, Unsanctioned, but according to the
rules of AERC...OR an educational clinic type ride, the same thing...
the sanctioning body gives us STANDARDIZATION...something that is DEFIN-
ITELY important and desired.
Hope this helps you to understand a little better. I'm sure there will
be other answers from this good group to your question.
Sincerely,
Deena~ Meyer
Inverness, Fl.
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 22:24:21 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Convention
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Thanks for the plug Teddy. I am planning to go to Equifest. It is Feb. 27,
28 & March 1 at the Kansas Coliseum. That's on the north end of wichita.
The lineup of clinics includes Pat Parelli, Linda Tellington Jones, Dawn
McCorkle (jumping), Hilda Gurney (dressage), and clinics on driving,
carriages, nutrition, barrel racing, roping and some fun exhibitions, as
well as a stallion review and lots of vendors.
see you there.
At 09:35 PM 1/29/98 EST, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-01-29 20:43:55 EST, paus@micoks.net writes:
>
><<
> How about Kansas City? It's in the middle of the country andwe have the
> AMerican Royal horse show grounds.
>
> chris paus & star
> >>
>
>I'd go for that...in fact there is going to be the first "Equifest of Kansas"
>in Wichita at the end of February...promises to be good. I am going so I
>guess I'll find out.
>
>
>Teddy
>
>
>
aus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Convention
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Thanks for the plug Teddy. I am planning to go to Equifest. It is Feb. 27,
28 & March 1 at the Kansas Coliseum. That's on the north end of wichita.
The lineup of clinics includes Pat Parelli, Linda Tellington Jones, Dawn
McCorkle (jumping), Hilda Gurney (dressage), 6671 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002726 06464254052 0013123 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mail.mti.net (mail.mti.net [208.136.137.7]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA24737 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:33:42 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Breast Collars
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 04:23:55 GMT
Organization: MTI Internet Services
Reply-To: "Joe Long" <jlong@mti.net>
Message-ID: <34d4555a.45239054@mail.mti.net>
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On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 16:31:28 -0800, suzy kelley <suzyk@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
...
>Breast collars impead your horse's forward motion and interfer with their
>shoulders. If you use a breast collar in an endurance ride, it will make
>you horse lame!
That would be news to Kahlil, who wore a breast collar for most of his
rides. They may be thinking of the straight-across style found in
rodeos; a properly fitting Y-shaped rig will not cause any problem and
will help stabilize the saddle even on the flats, allowing a looser
girth.
--
Joe Long
jlong@mti.net
Business Page http://www.mti.net
Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:39:18 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: FRIGID DIGIT ENDURANCE RIDE
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HERE YE.....HERE YE.....
The Texas Arabian Distance Riders Assn. would like to invite all to come to
the Frigid Digit Endurance (25/35/50) ride on Feb. 7, 1998.
The ride is located just outside Decatur, TX (off 287 NW of Ft. Worth) in the
LBJ National Grasslands.
The weather should be typical Texas. Maybe heat, cold, snow, or all of the
above within 2 days.
The trails are easy and very well (permanently) marked. We have a couple of
small hills, lots of creek crossings and lots of woods (unlike the name
"Grasslands").
We hope you will all come to join us!!!!
For more information, please e-mail George McGraw, ride manager, at
georgem@computrac.com
WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU THERE!!! If you can't ride, we would love to
have your expert assistance.
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:06:53 EST
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Subject: Re: Boz saddle 4 sale
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I have a used Boz saddle for sale if anyone's interested e-mail me
April
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Pioneer Awards
Cc: dbeebe@plumas.ca.us
Greetings Dorothy!
The Pioneer Award is one of the AERC National Awards Programs and is given
to the top three (3) placements in each weight division, including
juniors, for the most points accumulated on a multi-day event of at least
three consecutive days. Qualification is the accumulative score of the
horse and rider team, and the team must complete all the days of the event,
ie. all three days of a 3-day ride to all five days of a 5-day ride.
Happitrails, and I hope you can make it to the Rocky Mountain Ride!
Brad.
>Brad,
>
>This ride sounds awesome!! However, can you explain to me what is meant by
>"Pioneer Ride"? thanks
>
>dorothy & elly
>taylorsville, ca
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 20: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:35:18 EST
To: jlong@mti.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Thanks Joe for the rough guesstimate. My gelding had 2000 miles but had 'been
there done that' and was very happy doing a 3 hour 25 miler but the second
half would take 5-6 hours. He would be the exception to your 'guesstimate'
but at least I'll have a parameter with the next horse. CS
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:38:21 EST
To: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca, ridecamp@endurance.net
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We've used a 1,2,3 formula. 1 cup Skin so Soft, 2 cups vinegar, 3 cups water.
We don't have big horse eaters in San Diego tho. CS
(a small amount of Citronella or Eucalyptus oil can be added if desired).
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 02:36:01 EST
To: kathy@nvolve.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Cc: BikoNMe@aol.com
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NATRC did a study years ago of their top six placings at all rides for three
years. There was not a breed that out did any other. The stats compiled
showed 15.1 or less and 1000 pounds or less as the biggest factor in
soundness/placings.
I realize NATRC is a different game entirely but this is just a FYI comment.
I'd hate to quote Deb Bennett incorrectly but I faintly remember ready
something she wrote stating at least a cannon bone of 7" for a 1000# horse
(and 8" being even better).
I think the stats were trying to say if you get to big a horse or to much
length of cannon bone you may compromise soundness over the multitude of miles
regardless of breed. Cindy
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Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 23:41:33 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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To: suzy kelley <suzyk@ix.netcom.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Breast Collars
References: <34D11F60.4F9B@ix.netcom.com>
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suzy kelley wrote:
>
> This is what a friend of mine was told the other day:
>
> Breast collars impead your horse's forward motion and interfer with their
> shoulders. If you use a breast collar in an endurance ride, it will make
> you horse lame!
>
> What do you think?????
If you ride up a steep hill with NO breast collar and a neoprene girth,
your saddle slides back to somewhere around the horse's tailhead and you
spend the entire afternoon getting off, swearing horribly, resaddling,
getting back on, only to repeat it all over again every thirty seconds
until you finally get to the top of the hill sometime around next June.
This also impedes forward motion.
Lameness occurs to rider when horse, getting frustrated by all this
nonsense, starts spinning in circles and trampling the rider as the rest
of the pack sweeps grandly past, all of THEM wearing breastcollars, and
all of them inquiring kindly, as though speaking to a retarded child (as
well they should), "why the hell didn't you put on a breast collar?"
Susan Garlinghouse
The Queen of Been There and Done That and Bloody Well Won't Do It Again
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Beaver Meadows IAHA Region 8 Ride
Cc: aerc@foothill.net, Navarrada@aol.com, equine_athletes@hotmail.com
Greetings All!
The Beaver Meadows IAHA Region Eight 50 Mile Championship Endurance Ride
will be held on June 13th at Beaver Meadows Resort Ranch near Red Feather
Lakes, Colorado. Please contact me if you want ride entry info.
Happitrails & I hope to see you there!
Brad.
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 13: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride * IAHA Region
Eight 50 Mile Championship Ride * (Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
scii"
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Beaver Meadows IAHA Region 8 Ride
Cc: aerc@foothill.net, Navarrada@aol.com, equine_athletes@hotmail.com
Greetings All!
The Beaver Meadows IAHA Region Eight 50 Mile Championship Endurance Ride
will be held on J6680 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001645 06464310206 0013114 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from imo29.mail.aol.com (imo29.mx.aol.com [198.81.19.157]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06461 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:34:08 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 03:30:37 EST
To: wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Strange Blood - Potassium
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I discovered quite a few years ago by accident that my horses prefer 60/40 the
plain salt to mineral. With stones prevalent in our area (So Cal) 'I' felt
better offering an option to only 'mineral' salt block. (I know, I know; it
may/may not be a factor....as I said it made me feel better). Cindy
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From: "Snodgrass, Bonnie" <snodgrab@ncr.disa.mil>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Saddle For Sale
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:11:00 -0500
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______________________________ Forward Header
__________________________________
Subject: Saddle
Author: pamela cieplak [SMTP:cieplakresearch@erols.com] at DISAHUB
Date: 1/29/98 12:07 PM
This ad is for a friend. Her husband has quit riding and she is selling
his
saddle. Please respond to her.
Stubben Siegried Extra (extra forward flap), 19", 31 cm (medium) tree,
like
new condition, $900. Reply to Pam Cieplak, La Plata, MD (301) 753-4443
or
cieplakresearch@erols.com
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---------------------------- Forwarded with Changes ---------------------------
From: pamela cieplak [SMTP:cieplakresearch@erols.com] at DISAHUB
Date: 1/29/98 12:07PM
To: Bonnie Snodgrass at HQS2
Subject: Saddle
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:54:44 EST
To: suzyk@ix.netcom.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Breast Collars
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In a message dated 98-01-30 00:43:34 EST, you write:
<< This is what a friend of mine was told the other day:
Breast collars impead your horse's forward motion and interfer with their
shoulders. If you use a breast collar in an endurance ride, it will make
you horse lame!
>>
Suzy, it would appear this person must be trying to trick you! I cant believe
anyone who rides endurance would actually believe this. Must have been a joke!
I can see it now, Suzy crossing the finish line hanging on to her horses tail.
But her horse would be sound!
Ken
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From: "Slagle" <slagle@nac.net>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Hay?...before and after
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:17:16 -0500
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I'm interested in some facts about different types of hay. I have =
always thought that a good quality grass hay, fed free choice, is a =
reasonably good option for most horses. Since I moved to NJ it seems all =
I hear is timothy hay is much better for them. When I ask why, I hear =
various general reasons, nothing real specific. I'd like to hear what =
some of you know about the differences between grass and timothy hay =
(both good quality) as far as nutrition in a feeding program. One other =
question...this involves the end results of the hay. Most folks around =
here use shavings for bedding, then many of them spread the =
manure/shavings on their land. Doesn't this "sour" the land by altering =
the pH of it? I have a hard time finding a good supply of straw and if =
shavings are okay to spread without having to go back and "fix" any =
problems they may cause, it would give me an option when I need =
bedding.
=20
Just trying to get things right....
Linda
=20
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2> <FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS">I'm interested in some facts</FONT><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"> about different types of hay. I have always =
thought that a=20
good quality grass hay, fed free choice, is a reasonably good option for =
most=20
horses. Since I moved to NJ it seems all I hear is timothy hay is =
much=20
better for them. When I ask why, I hear various general reasons, =
nothing=20
real specific. I'd like to hear what some of you know about the=20
differences between grass and timothy hay (both good quality) as =
far as=20
nutrition in a feeding program. One other question...this involves =
the end=20
results of the hay. Most folks around here use shavings for bedding, =
then many=20
of them spread the manure/shavings on their land. Doesn't this=20
"sour" the land by altering the pH of it? I have a hard =
time=20
finding a good supply of straw and if shavings are okay to spread =
without having=20
to go back and "fix" any problems they may cause, it =
would give=20
me an option when I need bedding.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2>Just trying to get things=20
right....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS" size=3D2> =
Linda</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><FONT=20
face=3D"Comic Sans MS"></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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s "sour" the land by altering =
the pH of it? I have a hard time finding a good supply of straw and if =
shavings are okay to spread without having to go back and "fix" any =
problems they may cause, it would give me an option when I need =
bedding.
=20
Just trying to get things right....
Linda
=20
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:18:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Re: Hay?...before and after
To: ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
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I live in NJ also. If you want to learn about the nutrients in different kinds
of hay, get Lon Lewis' book or Harold Hintz' book. Generally, timothy is
supposed to have more protein than grass hay but it depends on the stage at
which it was harvested. My guys leave over the stems if the timothy is not
tender enough and this year was a bad year for hay so I'm cleaning up alot of
hay stems. As far as spreading shavings, well, spreading manure on pasture is
not a good thing to do unless it's rotted becuase you're going to be seeding
the place with parasites too. I compost my manure and shavings and then people
who have gardens come and take some it away. It would make sense though that
the pH of the wood shavings would acidify the land it's spread on. Lime is
the remedy, but why go to the expense if you can compost the manure instead.If
you want straw, I may know someone who makes it for his dairy cows. Let me
know.( He's in central NJ.) -Amy
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From: "Snodgrass, Bonnie" <snodgrab@ncr.disa.mil>
To: equine-l@psuvm.psu.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Maryland Chiropractor??
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:44:00 -0500
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A friend has asked me to help her locate a good equine chiropractor
in
our area (Wash. D.C.) to work on her horse. Her vet suggested it. I
know Joyce Harmon's group is in No. Va but don't have her #. Need
alternatives to Dr. Harmon also. If anyone can help I'd appreciate
it.
Bonnie Snodgrass
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From: "Eric & Gail Hought" <hought@humboldt1.com>
To: <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>, "suzy kelley" <suzyk@ix.netcom.com>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Breast Collars
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 07:29:36 -0800
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Susan,
Love your sense of humor. Need that in the morning and I agree with you.
As long as a breast collar fits correctly it shouldn't cause any problems.
Unless you have a real shapely horse it's nice to have one on.
Gail Hought
hought@humboldt1.com
http://www.hought.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:41:21 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Cheryl Newbanks <horsetrails@inficad.com>
Subject: tendonitis and endurance
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Hi group! I have a neighbor who conditions with me a couple times a week
and he has a gorgeous quarter/tb cross that he would like to try ld's with.
My questions are these: This horse has tendonitis and always starts off
on a nod but warms out of it pretty fast and is pretty sound once we are
into the ride. I doubt the horse will vet in, but since it does improve
with time, it may if the legs are kept warm and some therapy is done on a
daily basis.
The therapy part is where I am really debating this tendonitis thing. The
horse was diagnosed with an ultra sound as having tendonitis in both front
legs. I can't recall having a horse on the track with tendonitis so I am
not sure about the required therapies to help aleviate some of this horse's
discomfort. Off the top of my head I would say keep the tendons warm, but
then I am concerned that on the days that he carries heat a warm therapy
may blow his legs up with fill. So do we sweat, or do we paint? It is
completely unacceptable that we do nothing at all though. I was thinking
hot/cold therapy myself, like cold water hosing and furacin and dmso sweat,
or a light iodine leg paint that we used on the track to induce circulation
to the area.
What do you think group? Have any of you ever had a horse with tendonitis
that competed successfully and those of you who have what kind of therapy
did you do for the horse? This horse is 14 going on 5 and has had this
condition for many years before my neighbor got him.
Thanks!
Cheryl Newbanks
~~ ^ ^ Just In Time Ranch
~~~\ _ ~~/ /\ / Buckeye, AZ
( )__ ) ' ' horsetrails@inficad.com
// \\
// \\
** **
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Message-Id: <199801301626.JAA180646@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
From: "Linnea Skoglund" <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:29:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: Convention
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Jerry,
Locations of National conventions are always a problem. My
professional organization holds an annual convention. It rotates
around the 5 divisions (northeast, north central, etc.) and is never
held in the same place twice. When the meeting is in the west, there
is high attendance from westerners and lower attendance from
easterners. The reverse is true when it is in the east. (Just
imagine what it is like to be from Hawaii or Alaska!) That is why the
meeting moves. On the other hand, nationals (in this case a show)
for my breed group are ALWAYS held in the south east (I could make
some polical statements about that!). Needless to say this limits
participation by westerners, even those of us who don't show.
So the issue here is twofold. Do we in AERC what to have the biggest
convention possible? Or do we want to give everyone an occassional
opportunity to participate? Personally, I am for occassional
participation. But this must be balanced with being able to have
the speakers and vendors there to make it a good meeting.
I don't have much history with the AERC conventions, so please don't
flame me.
Linnea & Pesadilla
/\_/\ _
/ o o\ / /
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| | | | | | | |
|_| |_| |_| |_|
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From: "Linnea Skoglund" <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:45:44 +0000
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Subject: Cannon bone measurements
Priority: normal
X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)
Hey, I am curious. How does one take cannon bone measurements? How
is it interpretted? I don't see that it is given as a ratio or
anything, so I assume it is just the circumference in the center
(lengthwise) of the cannon bone. I am lazy and don't want to read an
anatomy text. So just some general statements will satisfy me.
Thanks
Linnea & Pesadilla, who had pretty stout legs for a paso.
/\_/\ _
/ o o\ / /
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\ <> /_______/ /
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From: LRiedel769@aol.com
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Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:01:37 -0500 (EST)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:01:37 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <980130120137_-264117612@mrin51.mx>
To: Ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Recorded Votes
Re recording AERC Board members votes: If you will note in the minutes in
EN, many of the votes are unanimous. You can see who voted how by reading
the names of members present at the beginning of the minutes.
According to Roberts
Rules of Order there has to be a motion made to have a roll call vote. At
the Sunday meeting there were 5 roll calls requested (on the more crucial
issues.)Two of them were unanimous; two of them had one person in
opposition--and those names were mentioned. The fifth vote resulted in a
13-10 split, and all the names were recorded with the way they voted. Watch
Endurance News. Louise Riedel, Secy
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Message-ID: <34D2087A.3D2B@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:06:02 -0800
From: Steve Shaw <sshaw@pacbell.net>
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To: "ridecamp@endurance.net" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Pre-SR Saddles
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I have two pre-SR saddles. When I once asked Susan Gibson what is the best made saddle and best value saddle
at the time, she said, "Gorenschek" without a hesitation. I have had them so long, and since they have been
suject to my abuses for twelve years, that I had to squint and rub hard on the stirrups in order to remember
how to spell his name.
Matt made a 14" and a 15" numbers 255 and 256 that look identical in form and function to the SR Enduro. This
was out of his backyard shop in Santa Barbara where he was an aging German saddle maker from the old school
who had adapted the newest technology of the day to the newest sport of the day, Endurance Riding. I still
use those saddles every time I ride. One saddle is going back to Steve G. this week to have new stirrups put
on (one side has stretched over an inch and a half from getting on and off some much in the years).
About the time Matt Gorenschek became a hospice patient he began apprenticing Steve Gonzales on how to make
his saddles and use his tools. The result is the SR Enduro. My parents want me to get a new saddle for
Christmas this year (though I didn't tell them how much a SR was and I will have to make up a significant
difference) but after looking at all of the saddles at the convention I believe that I will be getting another
one!
Ask Steve Gonzales what he knows about the Cuesta/Sespe 400 Mile Trail. He grew up on parts of it.
Steve Shaw
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Message-ID: <00cb01bd2da1$fa2ed640$34da9bcd@dorothyb>
From: "Dorothy Beebe" <dbeebe@plumas.ca.us>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Michigan Horse Cruelty Case
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:59:17 -0800
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If any of you are interested, I have a contact in Michigan that is =
sending me newspaper articles with regard to these horses. =20
Please let me know, privately, if you would like this info and I'll =
forward it.
dorothy & elly
taylorsville, ca
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If any of you are interested, I have =
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in Michigan that is sending me newspaper articles with regard to these=20
horses. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Please let me know, privately, if =
you would like=20
this info and I'll forward it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>dorothy & elly</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>taylorsville, =
ca</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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6693 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000001670 06464410217 0013121 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from [208.21.35.1] (lg.com [208.21.35.1]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23850 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:40:26 -0800 (PST)
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From: "Solis, Suzanne (LGE-AT)" <ssolis@lg.com>
To: "'Endurance'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Cannon Bone Measurments
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:40:57 -0500
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How do you measure the length of the cannon bone?
I thought that it was the circumference that was measured?
How do you measure the circumference? middle, below the knee or above
the fetlock?
Suzanne,
ssolis@lg.com
6694 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002035 06464412764 0013127 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us ([199.164.64.10]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25176 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:03:25 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34D214F3.2493@grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:59:15 -0500
From: ldurkee <ldurkee@grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us>
Organization: Moon Lake Elementary School
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Chondroitin Sulfate
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I am looking at a product called Flex Ease that contains Chondroitin
Sulfate A, B, and C. What is the difference between these......is it
the strength or the grade quality? The analysis of Chondroitin Sulfate
A is 2040mg per ounce, does not give it for the B or C. Anyone familiar
with this product?
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:01:49 -0500
From: ldurkee <ldurkee@grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us>
Organization: Moon Lake Elementary School
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Subject: Flex Ease for People
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I also see that there is a Flex Ease for people....pure oral grade, 350
mg.@, take one capsule three times a day for thirty days and then you
should be able to jump over the Moon........not to be confused with
barking at it. Anyone taking this - what are the results?
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From: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:03:08 EST
To: hikryrdg@evansville.net, ramey@wvi.com, truman.prevatt@netsrq.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Convention
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In a message dated 98-01-30 00:44:56 EST, hikryrdg@evansville.net writes:
<<
Ramey, As you could see, we have a problem getting vendors to show up at
the convention in the east. As a good business move, why not tell a vendor
that if they go to Reno then part of the deal is they also have to show up
in the east. Just another step in running AERC like a business. Did you
notice the lack of west coast folks at Lexingtion? Sometimes I feel like
we are expected to go west but that the west coast riders could care less
about what is going on back here. Just a feeling. Did AERC budget any $
to advertise the convention ? Jerry Fruth...Hickory Ridge...Standing
JABASK KNIGHT >>
I beg to differ with you.. I know of PLENTY of vendors who would have. I
offered this to the AERC office, but it fell on deaf ears. As most of you
know, I do a LOT of trade show and know a lot of companies that would have
loved to come....I could have DOUBLED the size of the trade show.....
BUT, what would they have gotten in return? The attendance was low for a
trade show of the size it was...if you got more vendors, the $$$ don't go as
far....The REAL problems lies in attracting more attandance...I have made
numerous suggestions over the years concerning this. Seems the AERC office
thinks they can do it all on their own and are not willing to accept advice
from anyone.
For starters.....you have got to ADVERTISE!!!! What little the AERC office
did told no one that the trade show was FREE and did not list speakers until
AFTER you sent your money in...How can you attract people without telling them
what is happening..
Secondly...no one outside (or very few) will pay $65.00 for seminars when they
are not even listed up front....even if they were, you cannot attract many
newcomers with that kind of fee. Get in line with the21st century!!!! Charge
EVERYBODY a flat $10.00 per day to get in to EVERYTHING. Thus, people who can
only attend one day or one seminar get a good value. I know people who did
NOT come because they could only attend Saturday and felt $65.00 was too
much.. By charging everyone every day...AND increasing advertising, you will
more than equal the $$ currently generated. AND, possible get more people to
JOIN!!!!
As a vendor, this is one of the poorest organized trade shows I go to (even if
it is worthwhile for me...must be, I have been going for 14 years and have yet
to see a seminar). The office would be $$ ahead to hire someone to manage the
trade show, someone with professional experience in doing so.
Teddy
PS: I really saw more west coast people than I expected to see...overall, the
attendance was good considering all of the shortcomings.
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Endurance topics please!
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:16:32 -0800
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...but what does this have to do with endurance???
Really folks - it's getting out of hand.
Steph
-----Original Message-----
From: carl meyer [SMTP:carlmey@citrus.infi.net]
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 1998 6:52 PM
To: Joe Long
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
Joe Long wrote:
>
> On Thu, 29 Jan 1998 11:16:03 EST, RUN4BEAR <RUN4BEAR@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >In a message dated 98-01-29 01:33:08 EST, SandyDSA@AOL.COM writes:
>
> > Joke of the day from my daughetr -
> > If a tiny burro is called a burrito, what would you call a little judge? >>
>
> >A judgitto?
>
> >Don't get it....
>
> Say it slooowly ....
>
> "Judge Ito" (O.J. trial)
>
> --
>
> Joe Long
> jlong@mti.net
> Business Page http://www.mti.net
> Personal Page http://www.rnbw.com
Thank you Joe! and you too Teddy, for being so up front and honest..I
didn't get it either..but figured someone would come up w/the punchline!
I'm still chuckling.
Deena~ Meyer,
Inverness, Fl.
carlmey@citrus.infi.net
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From: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
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Message-ID: <79226b4b.34d215db@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:03:05 EST
To: suzyk@ix.netcom.com, KimFue@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Mime-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Breast Collars
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In a message dated 98-01-30 00:43:34 EST, suzyk@ix.netcom.com writes:
<<
Breast collars impead your horse's forward motion and interfer with their
shoulders. If you use a breast collar in an endurance ride, it will make
you horse lame!
What do you think?????
>>
The "western" style of breastplate that goes straight across the chest can do
this. Most endurance riders use the "hunt" style which lays along the
shoulder and does not impede movement....that is, of course, unless you put it
on too tight....AND, if you MUST put it on that tight...yiou probably have the
wrong saddle.
Teddy
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From: "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
To: "'ridecamp'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: breast collars
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 10:29:00 -0800
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< If you use a breast collar in an endurance ride, it will make
you horse lame!>
If this were true, almost every horse on the endurance trail would be
dead lame. And I'd rather used a well made, properly fitted breast
collar that keeps my saddle in place, than cinch the girth down real
tight.
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From: wine-o@pacbell.net
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:42:47 -0800
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: UP-DATE! WEST REGION CONFERENCE MARCH 14, 1998!
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UNABLE TO GO TO THE AERC CONVENTION IN KENTUCKY? WAS THE PRICE OF AN
AIRLINE TICKET TO HIGH? BOSS SAID YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A JOB WHEN YOU
RETURNED? DO YOU WANT MORE INFORMATION ABOUT ENDURANCE RIDING!
DON'T MISS THIS!
HERE'S THE SCOOP!
THE AERC WEST REGION CONFERENCE ON MARCH 14, 1998!
BEING BROUGHT TO YOU BY (USA PACIFIC SOUTH) AT THE CAL EXPO / STATE
FAIR GROUNDS, SACRAMENTO CA.!
FEATURING: DR. MIKE FOSS, DIRECT FROM THE AERC NATIONAL CONVENTION TO
THE WEST REGION CONFERENCE. FOR THOSE OF US THAT WENT TO KENTUCKY,
THIS WAS THE SPEAKER THAT PACKED THE HOUSE. DR. FOSS IS A WELL KNOWN
ENDURANCE AND RACE TRACK VETERINARIAN AS WELL AS AN EXCEPTIONAL
SPEAKER!
DR. BRAY, AN EQUINE NUTRITIONIST FROM CAL-POLY, WILL PROVIDE AN
EXCEPTIONAL SEMINAR!
SUSAN GARLINGHOUSE, SPEAKING ON BONE STRUCTURE, WEIGHT OF HORSES AND
RIDERS COMPETING AT THE 1997 TEVIS. THIS RESEARCH IS CUTTING EDGE AND
IS A MUST FOR ANYONE THAT WILL COMPETE AND HAS COMPETED IN THE TEVIS
RIDE! SHE COLLECTED THE DATA AT THE 1997 TEVIS RIDE!
FULL TRADE SHOW!!
WHEN I SAY FULL I MEAN IT! LOOKING FOR A SADDLE? NOT ONE BUT FOUR
SADDLE COMPANIES ARE COMING, SHARON SAARE, JOHN BOZANICH, ORTHOFLEX
AND SR ARE COMING!
NEED TACK? GO THE DISTANCE, PLUSH BOTTOM, SPORTACK JUST TO NAME A
FEW!
EXHIBITORS FEATURING HORSE PRODUCTS! EXHIBITORS FEATURING PERFORMANCE
ENHANCEMENT FOR HUMANS!
AWARDS BANQUET! MARCH 14, 1998 AT THE CAL / EXPO, RIGHT AFTER THE
SHOW ENDS. NO NEED TO GRAB A BURGER ON THE WAY HOME, WE HAVE A FULL
CATERED BANQUET AND WEST REGION AWARDS, NOT TO MENTION A DANCE AFTER!
DO YOU HAVE ALL THE INFO?
COST $10 DOLLARS PER PERSON WITH AERC MEMBERSHIP, NOT A MEMBER? NO
PROBLEM, AERC MEMBERSHIP WILL BE AVAILABLE AT THE CONFERENCE!
PRE REGISTRATION BY MARCH 1ST 1998!
AT THE DOOR $15 DOLLARS
CHILDREN UNDER 12 HALF PRICE!
AWARDS BANQUET! $25 DOLLARS GETS YOU THE FULL EVENING, DINNER, AWARDS,
DANCE!
NEED A PLACE TO STAY? TWO HOTELS HAVE PROVIDED DISCOUNT RATES FOR
CONFERENCE. EXECUTIVE INN 1-800-793-2030
HOWARD JOHNSON PLAZA HOTEL (916)366-1266
NEED MORE INFO?
CALL MIKE BERNTSEN (408)267-7827
OR E-MAIL AT wine-o@pacbell.net
or send registration to
USA PACIFIC SOUTH
1540 Willowbrook Dr.
San Jose CA, 95118
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Reply-To: hikryrdg@evansville.net
From: "Jerry Fruth" <hikryrdg@evansville.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:57:04 -0600 (CST)
To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Convention
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Teddy, With out a doubt the AERC office and its directors have a long way
to go to begin to run the thing like a business. Dane said that he would
respond to the rumors of missing money, computer tinkering and what not.
I like Dane but I doubt if a report will be forthcoming. No one likes to
talk about a screw up on their watch. The board is way to large to run
AERC, It need an executive committee that would write the business plan,
watch the books, implament good business procedures for a not for profit.
I think Larry Kanavey would serve and I know I would like to get my teeth
into getting the thing turned around. I don"t bring all this up as a
sideline harper, but as a long time member of AERC that is tired of seing
it run like a side show. Best Jerry Fruth
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From: Dominique Freeman <fadjurs@sadandy.hpl.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801301918.AA206767919@sadandy.hpl.hp.com>
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Exhibitors and the AERC Convention
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 11:18:39 -0700 (PST)
X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.0-hp-941027
Available via anonymous ftp from ftp.halsoft.com
Dear Jerry,
You raise some interesting points about exhibitor attendance
at convention. I view my self as an "exhibitor" rather than a "vendor"
as I manufacture the majority of what I sell.
(A) Incentivizing Exhibitors:
As a "West Coast" based endurance related business, I have been to every
East Coast AERC convention since being in business since 1987 (since 1984 as Eagle Tack).
This fact has however never garnered any favours from AERC, I do it because
I take a global perspective of the endurance community, rather than a regional
one. Of course I would be overjoyed if somehow there were AERC "brownie points"
associated with consistant support of the Tradeshow. It is fair to say though,
that there are many exhibitors who have endured the vagaries of convention
organization, and have in some cases been treated rather less than fairly, despite their
continued support. In addition, one must be careful when seeking to subsidize one group,
and not the other. It could be fairly argued that East Coast businesses should be incentivized
in a similar manner to attend shows on the West Coast.
(B) Gross Sales:
I had a wonderful time at the convention, meeting new faces, visiting
with old friends. In addition, contrary to popular rumour of the finacial viability
and risk involved in attending the show, my gross sales numbers were the same as Reno 1997!
This indicates to me that promoted correctly, there should be no difficulty in
filling the Tradeshow in future years away from Reno. Factors such as weather, accessibility
quality of speakers, and location have alot to do with it. I know I benefited directly from "walk in" traffic,
a possibility in a town like Lexington, less so somewhere like Atlanta.
(C) Attendance:
To address your point about attendance related to regional location, of the
larger/longtime endurance businesses, attendance in this category was only down by one.
In addition, there were several smaller Westcoast based businesses present as their first show.
If you look carefully at the attendance roster, (bar a few) the remainder
of businesses were comprised of larger corporations (supplemets, publishing,
shoeing, trailers) which have regional offices. In fact, (besides one other
EST tack business), I didn't observe any East Coast business represented at a higher
frequency at this show than at Reno.
There a a few hard issues that the office faces when deciding to locate
the convention away from Reno:
(1) Per endurance related businesses, there are more located in the western
part of the US, than Eastern. The Tradeshow garners the majority of income neede to
run the office and related programs.
(2) Moving the AERC office to a convention site is more reasonable and cost effective
if it is within a couple hours drive of Auburn.
(3) As (small) businesses, we face the overhead cost issues, and the concern that
the convention attendees will be less if the show is east of Colorado. This is
an issue for all non-west coast businesses as well, the difference is that they can be
guaranteed of meeting or exceeding their sales goals at a West Region Conference, hence it
is worthwhile for them to travel. This particular show was all the more incredible
since I understand the total number of attendees was only around 500.
Perhaps the AERC should elect a "Tradeshow" committee to ensure the success of an activity
which generates a significant amount of income for them?
Dom
______________________________________________________________________
Dominique Freeman | "Life is short, science is long" |
fadjurs@sadandy.hpl.hp.com | |
Hewlett Packard Laboratories, | |
Palo Alto, CA USA | |
Phone: (415) 857-8596 | |
FAX: (415) 857-2862 | |
______________________________________________________________________
rom AERC, I do it because
I take a global perspective of the endurance community, rather than a regional
one. Of course I would be overjoyed if somehow there were AERC "brownie points"
associated with consistant support of the Tradeshow. It is fair to say though,6703 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000005362 06464432473 0013123 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [156.153.255.242]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA04711 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:16:48 -0800 (PST)
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From: Wendy Milner <wendy@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199801302015.NAA23264@wendy.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Hay
To: ridecamp@endurance.net (ridecamp@endurance.net)
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:15:11 MST
X-Mailer: Elm [revision: 212.2]
Linda said:
>I'm interested in some facts about different types of hay. I have =
>always thought that a good quality grass hay, fed free choice, is a =
>reasonably good option for most horses. Since I moved to NJ it seems all =
>I hear is timothy hay is much better for them.
"Hay" comes in two basic forms: grass and legume. The legume type
in the U.S. is generally alfalfa. The grass type comes in many
different varieties, generally based on where you live. In my
area I can get a mix of timothy, brome, orchard, and "North Park"
which is in itself a mixture that comes from the North Park area
of the state. Each type of grass hay has a different texture, some
being a leafier and other being a stemmier grass. The hay will have
a different mineral mix based on the ground on which it was grown.
If the hay is clean, free of dust and molds, and baled properly, not to
wet nor dry, then you should not worry too much on what variety is
available in your area. As long as the horse eats it, you'll be
doing fine.
You can look up the various nutritional elements of each type of hay
in books such as Nutritional Requirements of Horses, Heines.
--
Wendy
\|/
/\ -O-
/**\ /|\
/****\ /\
/ \ /**\ Here there be dragons
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/ / \/ /\ \ / \ \ / \/ / / \/ \/ \ / \ \
/ / \/ \/\ \ / \ / / \
__/__/_______/___/__\___\__________________________________________________
Wendy Milner HPDesk: wendy_milner@hp4000
Hewlett-Packard Company e-mail: wendy@fc.hp.com
Mail Stop A2-5UB3 Telnet: 229-2182 (898-2182 as of Nov 1.)
3404 E. Harmony Rd. AT&T: (970) 229-2182 (898-2182)
Fort Collins, CO, 80528-9599 FAX: (970) 229-2038 (898-2038)
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: IAHA Web Site
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:28:21 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd2dbd$9b637fa0$5e12c9cf@patfred>
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Could someone please give me the Web Site address for IAHA. Thanks!
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:34:01 -0500
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Lois Crowley <lcrowley@ctron.com>
Subject: USFS simply does not want us!!!
Cc: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
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Teddy,
Here in the New England area USFS is re-writing the forest plan. I got on
to a planning committee but they won't hold the meetings at times that
working people can get to them! Right now you can't unload a horse in any
"designated area" of the forest even if there were trails you'd like to
ride on. But bashing your way in from private property is just fine (?!)
Great "planning" eh!
I tried to get the horse community alerted to what was happening but its
hard to find someone who has the time and commitment to stay involved.
Heck, I wouldn't have known about this if I hadn't heard it from the 4
wheelers club.
Fee based stuff has gone into effect but doesn't effect us yet because
we're still riding in from private property so no one knows we are "using"
their forest.
frustrated in NH
LoisC
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From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: wanted: AERC board member email addresses
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 12:53:20 -0800
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If you're a board member, and reading this message, please send
me your email address, so I can update the AERC web pages - and
compile an AERC mailing list.
If you know the email addresses of those who are online, but not
on Ridecamp, please send me those as well.
thanks!
Steph
@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: wanted: AERC board member email addresses
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From: Petdoc6@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:40:33 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: West Coast Conference/AERCConvention
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Correct me if I am wrong, but it would appear that the West Region is
producing a conference much like what AERC had last week. How can The AERC
convention hope to attract all possible participants if there is an attractive
alternative much closer.
Does this mean we can expect an Eastern Region Conference next year? Sure
would be nice.
Carol Wingate
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:02:26 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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Would you email me please...I think we have a mutual friend....
(sorry to send to ridecamp, she is not in the riders directory)
Kimberly
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:49:43 EST
To: lcrowley@ctron.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-30 15:32:24 EST, lcrowley@ctron.com writes:
<<
Teddy,
Here in the New England area USFS is re-writing the forest plan. I got on
to a planning committee but they won't hold the meetings at times that
working people can get to them! Right now you can't unload a horse in any
"designated area" of the forest even if there were trails you'd like to
ride on. But bashing your way in from private property is just fine (?!)
Great "planning" eh!
I tried to get the horse community alerted to what was happening but its
hard to find someone who has the time and commitment to stay involved.
Heck, I wouldn't have known about this if I hadn't heard it from the 4
wheelers club.
Fee based stuff has gone into effect but doesn't effect us yet because
we're still riding in from private property so no one knows we are "using"
their forest.
frustrated in NH
LoisC >>
What ever happened to the AERC Trail Foundation? We will not HAVE an AERC if
we don't have trails!!!!
Yes, I understand your frustration as I am there too. I can't make most
meetings, and even when I can, I am overshadwoed by other interest groups
(bikers, ATV's, hikers) ALL of whom have more clout because they have more
organization.....
Also,I find that the USFS may hold a meeting out of "good will", but, when it
comes right down to it, they do what they damn well want to anyway.....
I, for one, an writing to EVERYONE...from local, regional, state to federal
agencies. I know I am just ONE letter, but maybe someday we might get
somewhere...
Teddy
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:15:25 +0700
From: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu (Teresa Van Hove)
Message-Id: <9801302315.AA03534@cody.unavco>
To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: trail preservation
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
> ....
> What ever happened to the AERC Trail Foundation? We will not HAVE an AERC if
> we don't have trails!!!! <snip>
>
> Teddy
What is the status of the AERC Trail Foundataion? I have read a few
articles in EN saying get involved in your local area and heard a few
things on ridecamp but that is it. I am one of the "silent majority" type
people - I am not going to do the research myself to find out what trails
may be in jeapordy - especially since my local area is mainly good about
allowing horses on most trails. But I do support nation wide trail
preservation. I would be in favor of having some of my AERC dues go to
(or contributing voluntarily to) a special committee for trail preservation.
This commmitte would then be notified of trails in jeapordy and send out
form letters (snail mail and/or e-mail) to us (AERC +?) requesting that the
recipient sign the letter and send it to the appropriate agency, public
official,etc. (This method seems to work for many special interest groups)
I'm sure it is labor intensive, thus I would support a fund being set up
to hire staff to do the mailings and handle incoming requests asking
for support in keeping specific trails accessible to horse people.
(just a thought - I have more spare cash than time myself and honestly am
not going to get very involved in trail preservation unless it is either
made easy for me or it has a much more direct effect on me than it does
right now)
Teresa
BTW Teddy if you e-mail a form letter that I can print out and sign;
with general relavance for all national forsests, and the address of the
appropriate federal agency. I will be glad to join you in requesting
to the USFS that all our national forsest lands be kept open to horse
back riding.
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:18:41 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Linnea Skoglund <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cannon bone measurements
References: <199801301642.JAA90002@lamar.ColoState.EDU>
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Usually, when you're referring to the cannon bone circumference, the
measurement is taken just below the knee. When we did our Tevis study,
we took the measurements midway between the knee and the fetlock joints,
which is a slightly smaller measurement.
Just FYI, when we measured cannon bone circumferences at Tevis (a total
of 360 horses over two years), the average measurement was 7.14 inches
for horses that finished and 7.41 inches for horses that were pulled
(even though the pulled horses had a slightly higher average, this was
not considered a statistically significant difference).
Linnea Skoglund wrote:
>
> Hey, I am curious. How does one take cannon bone measurements? How
> is it interpretted? I don't see that it is given as a ratio or
> anything, so I assume it is just the circumference in the center
> (lengthwise) of the cannon bone. I am lazy and don't want to read an
> anatomy text. So just some general statements will satisfy me.
> Thanks
>
> Linnea & Pesadilla, who had pretty stout legs for a paso.
> /\_/\ _
> / o o\ / /
> ---/\--- / /
> \ <> /_______/ /
> | |
> | _ __ _ |
> | | | | | | | |
> | | | | | | | |
> |_| |_| |_| |_|
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From: "Pat Fredrickson" <patfred@snowcrest.net>
To: <LazyJArabs@aol.com>, "Ridecamp (E-mail)" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: IAHA Web Site, GOT IT
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 15:18:31 -0800
Message-ID: <01bd2dd5$61477980$9712c9cf@patfred>
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Thanks to those of you who gave me the IAHA Web Site URL.
Pat Fredrickson
Natural Horse Handling Rope Halters
http://www.catechnologies.com/patfred
-----Original Message-----
From: LazyJArabs@aol.com <LazyJArabs@aol.com>
To: patfred@snowcrest.net <patfred@snowcrest.net>
Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 3:02 PM
Subject: Re: IAHA Web Site
>http://www.iaha.com
>
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:12:16 -0700
From: Beverly Gray <bgray@xmission.com>
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Subject: Fun Horse Classifieds
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BUYER BEWARE
HOW TO INTERPRET CLASSIFIED HORSE ADS:
BIG TROT: can't canter within a 2-mile straightaway
NICELY STARTED: lunges, but we don't have enough insurance to ride
him yet
TOP SHOW HORSE: won a reserve championship 5 years ago at a show
with unusually low entries due to a hurricane
HOME BRED: knows nothing despite being raised on the back porch
BOLD: runaway
GOOD MOVER: runaway
ATHLETIC: runaway
NEEDS INTERMEDIATE RIDER: runaway
NEEDS EXPERIENCED RIDER: *dead* runaway
DEAD QUIET: just dead
RECENTLY VETTED: someone else found something badly wrong with
this horse
BIG BONED: good this has mane and tail or would be mistaken for a
cow
DOING COURSES: when tranquilized to the eyeballs and lunged six
hours straight before
WELL MANNERED: hasn't stepped on, bitten, or kicked anyone for a
week
PROFESSIONALLY TRAINED: hasn't stepped on, bitten, or kicked
anyone for a month
STARTED O/F: started overfeeding because can't ride
SHOULD MATURE 16 HANDS: currently 13 h, dam is 14.2 h, sire is
15h,
every horse in pedigree back 18 generations is under 15h, but
*this*
horse will defy his DNA and grow
TO GOOD HOME ONLY: not really for sale unless you can: 1) pay
twice
what he is worth; 2) allow current owner to tuck in beddy-bye
every
night; and 3) are willing to sign a 10-page legal document
NO VICES: especially when he wears his muzzle
LIGHT CRIBBER: we can't afford to build any more barns and fences
for the buzz saw
NO TIME FOR HIM: he's lucky to be fed
EXCELLENT DISPOSITION: never been out of the stall
CLIPS, HAULS, LOADS: CLIPpity, clippity is the sound his hooves
make when he HAULS a** across the parking lot when you try to
LOAD him.
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 16:25:00 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: Slagle <slagle@nac.net>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Hay?...before and after
References: <00e601bd2d89$c51ca440$4d3763cf@slagle.nac.net>
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Slagle wrote:
>
> I'm interested in some facts about different types of hay. I have
> always thought that a good quality grass hay, fed free choice, is a
> reasonably good option for most horses. Since I moved to NJ it seems
> all I hear is timothy hay is much better for them. When I ask why, I
> hear various general reasons, nothing real specific. I'd like to hear
> what some of you know about the differences between grass and timothy
> hay (both good quality) as far as nutrition in a feeding program.
Well, timothy IS a grass hay. And so you're right, in that good quality
grass hay, free choice, goes a long ways towards providing most of what
a horse needs. Timothy (assuming we're talking good, clean, high
quality hay) is a nifty hay---it's right around 8-10% protein (which is
just about right for most horses that aren't growing, lactating, etc),
it has a good calcium-phosphorus ratio, a nice balance of minerals and
provides adequate levels of most of the nutrients needed for
maintenance. It might be just a touch light in energy for some horses,
but other horses will maintain weight just fine on a diet consisting
only of timothy.
On the other hand, timothy is not the ONLY grass hay that fits nicely
into this one-stop-shopping pigeonhole. So do good-quality bermuda,
fescue, bahiagrass, canarygrass and oat hay, just to name a very few.
Other grass hays (ie orchardgrass, pangola, bluegrass, etc) don't
provide really balanced nutrition all by themselves, but with a very
tiny amount of any high-quality legume, hey presto, you're covering all
your bases again.
And, as Wendy pointed out, the other "family" of hays are the legumes,
such as alfalfa, trefoil, clover and lespedeza. These are generally
also very adequate in all the nutrients, especially protein, but are
often a bit too rich all by themselves. They're a nice supplement to
grass hay in small amounts.
The thing about hay (ANY hay) is to pick hays by the quality of the
bale(s) you're looking at, rather than whether or not it's a specific
type of hay that everyone else says you should be feeding. Much, MUCH
better to feed high-quality AnyOtherKindofHay vs. poor, musty timothy.
Go for quality every time. I don't mean to beat this to death, but if
therr'es ever one thing you should be absolutely ferocious about, it's
making sure the quality of your hay is impeccable---no mold or
mustiness, not dusty or trashy, etc. The few bucks you save are
absolutely not worth the trouble you're buying with crummy hay.
After that, you can also look at what's cost effective---it's generally
cheaper to feed less of a really high-quality, slightly more expensive
hay, than to feed twice as much of a cheaper, lower quality hay. Also,
hay prices vary ALOT by region---out here in California, decent timothy
is $18-20 for a 100 lb bale. Fat chance I'm spending that much for
hay. High quality bermuda is around $9-10 for a 130-lb bale, which is
nutritionally very similar to timothy. Guess which hay I feed. Once
when the quality of the bermuda was kinda cruddy, I got a load of a
mixed barley-wheat-and-something- else-grass-hay that was probably just
a bit shy in calcium and maybe protein. I threw in a handful of alfalfa
and that was that. The point here is to take a good look at what's
available in your area and work with it.
If you can find a good quality grass hay (virtually ANY kind of grass
hay, as long as it's good quality) that's mixed with just a very small
amount of good-quality legume (either mixed in the bale, or added
after-the-fact by you), also of virtually any kind, the odds are
excellent that your nutrition level is just fine. As your work level
increases, you'll probably have to add some sort of energy source, such
as grain or fats, but the forage requirement will still be met just
fine.
Hope this helps,
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:51:31 EST
To: vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Teresa....
What you suggest is, IMO, what AERC was supposed to be doing all along....
The biggest problem with AERC is that most of us are not paid and,
unfortuantely, we all have to make a living.
I, for one, would dedicate 80% of my time to things I can only devote 10% to
now if I didn't have to make a living.
AND, you better believe I would be even BETTER at it if I was PAID!!!
Bottom line, we can complain all we want, but it is hard to MAKE a volunteer
do anything.
BTY, are you volunteering to head a committee?
Teddy
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:20:27 EST
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Subject: Re: WAY OF LIFE
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In a message dated 98-01-29 18:44:01 EST, you write:
<< How about:
What do you call a lawyer with a 40 IQ?
Teddy
>>
Gifted?
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Reply-To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: "Teresa Van Hove" <vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu>, <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>,
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: trail preservation
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:31:49 -0700
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> What ever happened to the AERC Trail Foundation? We will not HAVE an
AERC if
> > we don't have trails!!!! <snip>
> >
I am sorry to say that a committee or foundation is only as good/effective
as the effort that people are willing to put into it.The AERC Trails
Committee has 11 members scattered through out the entire United States.
Those 11 people SHOULD BE SUPPORTED by at least 1100 additional persons. I
am willing to bet there is not 110 members willing to support the effort as
the committee members have.
To explain, here in our area we have a number of National Forests and also
BLM Districts where we ride. Each NF District and each BLM District is
under almost autonomous control. If an issue come up caring people must
attend several meetings in each district. As an example we are having a
DEIS done for the Frank Church Wilderness. I will be attending three days
straight in February for the "preliminary" explanation of the document.
Then the BLM will have a hearing on the Owyhee Management Plan shortly
after that. In the whole of Idaho, not just my area, there are not over 50
non-commercial people willing to devote the time it takes to attend these
hearings. And the policy of the Agencies is that if you do not attend or
make your self known early in the process you cannot intervene at a later
date. Fighting for trails can become a full time job if you really care.
Do not slight the Mt. Bikers, the 4x4 drivers, the ATVers, the snowmobilers
and the hikers. They are our allies not our foes. We all need the trails
and need to promote multi-use of those trails we have. Look into other
organizations like the Blue Ribbon Coalition. They were instrumental in
getting the Symms Fund passed and then extended.
Make the Agencies aware that you are using the trails. Map them and then
give the agencies the map and bother them until they recognize that the
trails are there and being used.
None of this can be done with out the help of people PEOPLE PEOPLE AND MORE
PEOPLE. fill the meetings write the letters and one word of caution, FORM
LETTERS, at least in this part of the country, are worse than nothing. The
agency people have advised me that a form letter is the quickest turn off
they can imagine. They put them all together and if you are Lucky they
count them as one response. I said if you are lucky. Being there and
voicing your opinion, you may have to get a bit rough at times, is more
effective than money or a committee.
I could go on for gigabytes on this subject, have been in the trenches for
over 15 years now, but still fighting. Might win one in the next ten.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
> From: Teresa Van Hove <vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu>
> To: RUN4BEAR@aol.com; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: Re: trail preservation
> Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 2:15 AM
>
> > ....
> > What ever happened to the AERC Trail Foundation? We will not HAVE an
AERC if
> > we don't have trails!!!! <snip>
> >
> > Teddy
>
> What is the status of the AERC Trail Foundataion? I have read a few
> articles in EN saying get involved in your local area and heard a few
> things on ridecamp but that is it. I am one of the "silent majority"
type
> people - I am not going to do the research myself to find out what trails
> may be in jeapordy - especially since my local area is mainly good about
> allowing horses on most trails. But I do support nation wide trail
> preservation. I would be in favor of having some of my AERC dues go to
> (or contributing voluntarily to) a special committee for trail
preservation.
>
> This commmitte would then be notified of trails in jeapordy and send out
> form letters (snail mail and/or e-mail) to us (AERC +?) requesting that
the
> recipient sign the letter and send it to the appropriate agency, public
> official,etc. (This method seems to work for many special interest
groups)
> I'm sure it is labor intensive, thus I would support a fund being set up
> to hire staff to do the mailings and handle incoming requests asking
> for support in keeping specific trails accessible to horse people.
>
> (just a thought - I have more spare cash than time myself and honestly am
> not going to get very involved in trail preservation unless it is either
> made easy for me or it has a much more direct effect on me than it does
> right now)
>
> Teresa
>
>
> BTW Teddy if you e-mail a form letter that I can print out and sign;
> with general relavance for all national forsests, and the address of the
> appropriate federal agency. I will be glad to join you in requesting
> to the USFS that all our national forsest lands be kept open to horse
> back riding.
>
organizations like the Blue Ribbon Coalition. They were instrumental in
getting the Symms Fund passed and then extended.
Make the Agencies aware that you are using the trails. Map them 6718 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000027155 06464503275 0013134 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.5]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA22831 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:04:40 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34D285D3.5179@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:00:51 -0800
From: Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
Reply-To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Organization: Plough Electric
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Subject: saddle survey (final)
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These are the last of the saddle answers I received. It is unknown if
they were sent to the list. Of course, any sent to the list and not me
are not included, nor are they included in my summary. Those who
requested the summary: I'll mail them out on Monday.
Sorry if some of these are redundant.
If I get bored enough I'll set up the surveys and send them in as a
F.A.Q. This is a good way to condense many answers into one list and
have them as history for anyone to see in the future. It is easy to do
and perhaps Mike Maul will elaborate again to the list how to do it for
the new readers, if he is still in charge of this.
Happy riding to all!, Kimberly Price.
*********************
Subject: Re: saddle survey#3 (long)
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:35:55 -0700
From: "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
Kim:
I know that I am late with this info but I just could not resist. My
wife
Arlene has ridden a saddle made by Gary Mc Clintock some years ago (like
20?) She has logged about 15, 000 miles in competition in it (mostly top
tens) and I would venture another 45, 000 in training and conditioning.
This saddle has never shown any sign of soreing any horses back.
Something
I cannot say for the Orthoflex we thought would replace the old saddle.
It
has had new stirrup leathers put on it and a few dings repaired after
wrecks but it is still going strong and will survive a few more thousand
miles. Gary is located in Southern California and I guess will still
build
endurance saddles if you want one. Does not look very good since it has
seen rain, snow, heat, much horse sweat, wrecks , thrown in the back
of
the pickup, and general abuse over the years.
Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID
----------
Subject: Australian Stock Saddle Company
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:40:12 -0500
From: yerrick@juno.com (Beth A Yerrick)
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
You can e mail the Australian Stock Saddle Company at the following
address:
TASSC@aol.com
Their phone number is 818-889-6988.
Website: www.aussiesaddle.com
Subject: Re: wither tracing
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:53:29 -0600
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
That's easy. I went to an office supply shop and bought a thing called a
flexicurve. It is used by draftsmen. It bends, but has ruler marks on
it.
You may also use a piece of clothes hanger or baling wire.
Take the wire or whatgever, place it at the horse's withers and press it
down on either side, behind the shoulder. The flexicurve is best because
it
stays where you put it. The baling wire or clothes hanger will take some
doing.
The wire should be sitting on the horse where the front of the saddle
will
sit. When it is pressed into place on the horse, CAREFULLY lift it off.
Lay
it down on a piece of paper or cardboard and trace around the wire. This
is
the shape of your horse's back where the saddle belongs.
Some saddlers will tell you to fax them a copy of the wither tracing.
They
compare that to their templates. I prefer to make a cardboard tracing,
then
cut it out. I can take that with me to a saddle shop and place it under
a
saddle to see if the fit is close. It can help you rule out some saddles
right away.
It is also an eye opener as to what different saddles call a regular
tree
and what they call wide. There is a lot of variation.
good luck
chris paus & star
ect: Re: need saddle web sites.
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:02:48 -0600
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
Hi. Here's the website for Thornill saddles.
http:\\www.thornhillusa.com
Subject: Re: need saddle web sites.
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 07:36:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Dolores Arste <darste@emi.com>
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
try, www.vitalo.com/frankbaines
Subject: Re: saddle types..more questions
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:22:48 EST
From: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
1. The eventing and jump type saddles have a very forward flap as your
center
of balance (upper body) needs to come forward over your base of support
(leg)
as you go over a jump. A dressage saddle is used primarily on the flat
and
you want the horse to work in a more collected frame so the center of
balance
is further back and leg position is more under your hip (body lines up;
ear,
shoulder, hip, heel). An all-purpose saddle has a center of balance and
flap
that will facilitate some jumping and some dressage as well as trail
riding
(modified position). The a/p flap is not as forward as a
jump/xcountry/event
saddle but not as straight cut as a dressage flap. (Now days there are
a/p-
w/jump tendency and a/p-w/dressage tendency; with flaps reflecting leg
position to upper body/center of gravity needs). Most traditional
western
saddles/some trail saddles reflect the western tendency for a more
forward
leg. This is conduscive to speed work with quick stops. Cow work,
barrel
racing, gymkana etc
2. Depends on the company. I am most familiar with Ortho-Flex so will
let
others fill you in on their preferences. O/F has trail saddles on
wooden
trees in both their E & W models. Some are very traditional western
looking
w or w/o horns and some look quite English but with more rider support
and
cush. Their English trail models on American made trees (Lifetime
guarantee)
vary from English twist (crotch-narrower), trail models (crotch-not as
wide as
western saddles) and western trail models (wider than the English and
"trail"
models; many not as wide as some western that you feel like you're
sitting on
a 1/2 barrel). They also have traditional "English" looking saddles
made in
Britian but with O/F's weight distributing "spring panels" attatched.
3. O/F saddles have a tendency to put you a little further behind the
shoulder than alot of English saddles that lock you into the
wither/shoulder
area. This is very conducive to arena schooling. Some models have a
tendency
also to have your leg position a little more under you than traditional
western models; an asset for posting and arena schooling. Their
Endurance
Cutback model is built on their Dresseur Dressage model tree. The
difference
is in the all-purpose flap versus the more straight cut dressage flap.
Their
trail models also have easy flat work seats.
GP comment: My girlfriend rides & shows western but loves her
Stubben-Tristan
FYI comment: Andy Foster, England makes an awesome custom English
saddle to
your structure requirements. My friend has had Thorogood-synthetic
(like
Wintec); western trail O/F, and English trail O/F and now that she's
doing
dressage/arena schooling she wanted something to fit her 5 foot tall
height
with very little of it leg. Andy modified the flap, stirrup bar
position and
custom built it to her and her horse. A little extra padding in the
seat,
than most English saddles, for more comfort on the trail; small upper
thighblocks as she liked the added security she gain from the
thighblocks on
her E C/B; and a sliding/adjustable stirrup bar hanger, to change from
dressage/trail/jump position or to a different rider with a longer
thigh.
Also a unique adjustable girth system for horses with a need to have a
more
forward or rearward placement. (Some saddles are pulled forward or
slide
backward from the position of the girth in relationship to their
structure).
It's pricy but she's not complaining.
Subject: Re: wither tracing
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 11:22:35 -0800
From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
That is better than nothing, but there is a lot more to saddle fit than
just
the fit at the withers. Better is to use to take several tracings along
the
back at known distances. Better yet is to also trace the shape of the
horses
back along the spine. Then understand how dynamic fit may be different
than
static fit, and since I have no good information on how that might
differ, I
can only point you to the archives - there was a brief discussion of
this a
couple of months ago.
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
Subject: Re: need saddle web sites.
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:28:23 EST
From: RUN4BEAR@aol.com
For the Sharon Saare Saddles, check out:
http://www.tic-hppt.net/runningbear/
Teddy
ubject: Re: Synergist (John DiPietra) saddles
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 20:19:18 -0800
From: Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
To: KIMBERLY PRICE <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>
CC: Ridecamp Endurance <ridecamp@endurance.net>
I've had mine almost a year and really love it. While it was made for my
measurents, I got a standard arab tree as I knew my horse would muscle
up in the future and obviously didn't want it made to fit an unfit
horse.
I really don't have a lot of miles in it but so far, no problems. I am
very comfortable in the seat and because it is balanced it is a breeze
to stand in the stirrups.
Lauren
Subject: Saddle survey
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 07:00:13 -0700
From: lyoness@castlenet.com (Joane Pappas White)
To: plough1@ix.netcom.com
Hi,
I apologize for being so behind on my Ridecamp materials but I have been
at
Convention. I am very interested in the results of your saddle survey.
Have you reviewed Archives at Ridecamp too? I asked the same questions
about 18 months ago and got some great suggestions. This is the result
of
my own experience for the last 18 months:
SportsSaddle-fits everything well and was a wonderful saddle for
security
and confidence. I actually ride the barrel racing version which is
deeper
seated but the horn is dangerous. It was never sored a back--not my 1/4
horses who is round , nor my baby Arab who has no withers or my new mare
who
has huge witheres. Problem--I'm a middle to heavy weight depending on
tack.
I think that the saddle does not work as well for us as for the tiny
people.
I'm seeing white hairs on all the horses and am concerned that it is the
SS.
The vets don't know because there has never been soreness.
I have a autrailian stock saddle that I rode for a 25 mile ride on the
1/4
horse. Although it is heavy, the vet was impressed with it and the
horse
and I both loved it.
My english Ainsley is really and jumping saddle and is too forward
seated.
A dressage saddle might be a good chice thought and now that I'm
spending
time in dressage, I may try that saddle at a ride and see.
I just bought a Trekker RR from La Selleria Italia at the convention.
It is
the most comfortable thing I have ever been in. They guarantee it will
fit
any horse and it better because it was very expensive. This is a new
suspension system with a seat suspended over webbing so it never makes
actually contact iwth the horse's back. I should be here in a couple of
days and I let you know.
Thanks again, Joane
(EST)
From: Dolores Arste <darste@emi.com>
To: PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
try, www.vitalo.com/frankbaines
Subject: Re: saddle types..more questions
Date: Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:22:48 EST
From: CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
1. The eventing and jump type saddles have a very forward flap as your
center
of balance (upper body) needs to come forwa6719 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002467 06464506701 0013131 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from ns1.foothill.net (root@pop3.foothill.net [206.170.175.1]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA24853 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:34:37 -0800 (PST)
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Message-ID: <34D28D51.5EFB@foothill.net>
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 18:33:18 -0800
From: Phil Gardner <slsf@foothill.net>
Reply-To: slsf@foothill.net
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I know this has been discussed before, but I am interested in the latest
consensus on the use of chondroitin sulfate supplements such as Flex
Free, Cosequin, or one of the other brands. My situation is that I am
starting a 5 year old that I bred, imprinted at birth, and have high
hopes for doing a lot of miles over the next 15 years.
What has been the experience of people who have used these supplements?
Is giving them to a young horse just starting his career with no current
problems a good idea, or just a waste of money? Is there any advantage
of one particular brand over another?
Phil Gardner
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From: ChacoL@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:42:16 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-30 14:38:53 EST, RUN4BEAR@aol.com writes:
> Most endurance riders use the "hunt" style which lays along the
> shoulder and does not impede movement...
I've often wondered if these don't cause the saddle to "dig in" to the horse's
shoulders because they are attached to the (relative) top of the saddle. An
old timer I used to ride with always took off the short strap that goes from
the ring on the shoulder of the breastplate to the D in the front of the
saddle, and replaced it with a longer leather strap that looped around the
billets.
Could some of the white hairs we see just behind the withers possibly be
caused by tugging on the breastplate and not necessarily poor saddle fit?
Linda
San Francisco
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From: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:47:42 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-27 22:24:29 EST, you write:
<< The vets have told me I have a 50 to
100 mile horse. Unfortunately, the poor boy is saddled with a 25 mile
rider! I'm trying to catch up with him! >>
Chris hit the nail on the head. There are very few 25-mile horses out there,
but there are lots of 25-mile people. There are almost no horses that even
need to start at 25 miles--we routinely start with 50's and just go slower.
In fact, I hate to have any of my horses think that the job is over at 25
miles! I would not hesitate to take any sound, well-broke reasonably fit
horse and COMPLETE 50 miles. (Note I did not say "race" or Top Ten...) I
have done this on a number of my broodmares when they have only been under
saddle for a matter of several weeks. They usually think it is fun if we
don't push too hard.
It is the HUMAN half of the team that is almost always the limiting half of
the equation. I have many good friends who ride LD rides for various reasons.
If they are honest and up front and take care of their horses, they have my
respect. One friend is so big-busted that she gets black-and-blue shoulders
from her bra straps after about three hours (regardless of distance) and rides
in agony if she goes longer. Others have arthritis, health problems, or
whatever, but want to participate at a level they can without too much pain or
incapacity. More power to them. Some people just flat say that is all they
care to do. Fine. A lot of people get started in this sport and simply don't
have the self-confidence to go farther in the beginning. Fine. For those who
have given their all to do 25 miles, my hat is off to you. For those who I
know could and should and would enjoy more, I try to encourage and empower
until they are brave enough to try. But when they tell me their horse "needs"
more time at limited distance rides, I generally look them in the eye and tell
them to look in the mirror and be more honest about who it is that needs the
shorter rides.
As for respect? If you do your best to be a sportsman, a horseman, and a
decent person, you will earn my respect, whether I am wearing my ride vet hat,
my ride manager hat, or my helmet while I compete next to you, regardless of
the distance you ride.
For the record, my first ride was a 100 a quarter of a century ago, I still
prefer the 100's, but when I look at the demographics of our sport, I will be
the first to admit that my start was not typical....
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:24:09 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Breast Collars
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Must admit the breast collar thread has been chuckly--especially liked Susan's
response...
I do have one .02 to put in here, though. A breast collar is just a crutch to
make up for a horse that doesn't hold a saddle well. I have ridden over 5000
miles in competition, as well as hunted elk and chased cows in rough country,
and I have yet to own one of the contraptions. My Dad did have one shad-
bellied horse that really needed one or he would have ended up just like
Susan's story. The bottom line is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If your
saddle stays put with no extra help, why add one more piece of tack to rub,
snag, catch, or whatever? On the other hand, if you need the crutch to stay
safe while keeping your horse comfortable, by all means use one. My point is,
only use what you need--don't get ANY item of tack just because so-and-so uses
it or somebody was selling it and it sounded like a good idea. Every piece of
tack has a purpose, and you have to look at your own situation to see if that
purpose applies to you and your horse.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:35:45 -0600
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Breast Collars
In-Reply-To: <420386f0.34d2995b@aol.com>
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thanks Heidi. Believe it or not, we have some steep hills and even cliffs
(albeit grass covered cliffs) in Kansas. I have yet to use breast collar or
crupper on Star. My previous saddles might have done better with such
items, but my new saddle fits right where it should be and doesn't slip
forward or backward. I've thought about getting a breast collar, but then
again, think "why."
I like to untack my horse at vet stops because I think it helps him cool
down and have a better heart rate . (Maybe not, I just think it does).
Anyway, a breast collar would be one more thingey to undo adn put on again...
chris paus & star
and you have to look at your own situation to see if that
>purpose applies to you and your horse.
>
>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
>
>
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From: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:31:48 EST
To: Petdoc6@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: West Coast Conference/AERCConvention
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Hi Carol and other Ridecampers--
Here in the Northwest our regional organization has been putting on an annual
convention similar to AERC's convention since about 1974 or so. This year it
will be held the first weekend in February at Kah-Nee-Ta in central Oregon.
Some of us manage to attend both, but it is sure great to have multiple
conventions so that more people can participate. I would strongly encourage
other regional groups to do the same, regardless of whether AERC is near or
far in a given year. It just provides that many more opportunities for
education and to see what our friends look like without helmet hair and dirty
faces!
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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To: ridecamp-d@endurance.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
Subject: Re: Saddle fit
>
>Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:29:21 -0800 (PST)
>Subject: Endurance Saddles
>
>From: Barb Peck
>Email: bpeck@us.ibm.com
> I'm a Sharon Saare fitter, as are afew others on this list, ....
Barb, or anyone else:
Is there a Sharon Saare saddle fit person in Montana anywhere? I just sold
my OF saddle, that was sliding so badly and need to look for something that
will fit my wider, no wither mare. I thought of having a saddle made
locally, but maybe not after talking with a "cowboy" saddle maker. He said
the tree is NEVER the cause of a saddle not fitting. He said all trees fit
the same and will fit any horse, I just needed to tighten my cinch. Pretty
scary huh!! I don't think I want one of his saddles:-) Anyway, anyone who
can suggest trees to try, or recommend a person who is really good at saddle
fit, I'd sure appreciate it.
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
Jim & his good stuff
(Vintage Yellowstone Park Buses, parts and NOS)
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:49:33 -0800 (PST)
From: guest@endurance.net
Message-Id: <199801310349.TAA00410@fsr.com>
Subject: Glenwood-Blackhorse Gap 55/30
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO GUEST@ENDURANCE.NET!!!
You must post replies to the actual sender listed below.
From: Kevin Baird
Email: kbbaird@rev.net
The Glenwood-Blackhorse Gap 55/30 near Roanoke, Virginia is ON. The ride is
scheduled for April 25, 1998. Two weeks after No Frills. We had some
scheduling problems but all arrangements are made and final. We may not
make Endurance News so please pass along the info to your noncomputer riders.
Thanks Kevin Baird
PS. The VDOT widened the bridge into camp so that any size rig can now fit!!
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From: "Barb Martineau" <mcshasa@email.msn.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: PNER Convention
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:20:25 -0800
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Does anyone have any information on the upcoming PNER Convention.
I'm especially interested in the schedule for speakers and events.
Thanks
Barb (& Mac)
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From: MBlanchrd@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:27:33 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Hi, campers,
This is kindasorta endurance riding related.
Does anyone know where I can get saddle making tools? I don't need leather
carving or stamping tools (one does not carve or stamp an english saddle!),
but I do need the tools to actually build a saddle.
Please respond privately...don't want to clutter up the digest.
Thanks in advance
Michelle and Wren, the Siamese alarm cat, quality control chief.
MBlanchrd@aol.com
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From: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:41:18 EST
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
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Several people have asked about how to measure cannon bones. The measurement
is taken around the cannon and associated tendons and ligaments just below the
knee, and is usually referred to as the cannon circumference. Deb Benett used
to say that 7" per 1000# was adequate, but in more recent years has revised
her recommendation upward to 8" per 1000#. It is important to remember that
this measurement DOES relate to body weight--a 750# horse with 6-1/2" or
6-3/4" has oodles of bone, while a 1200# horse with 8-1/2" is a bit on the
flimsy side.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 01:07:54 EST
To: fadjurs@sadandy.hpl.hp.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Exhibitors and the AERC Convention
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Dominique Freeman's post about exhibitors and the AERC Convention should be
required reading for every member of the Board and every person in the AERC
office planning future conventions. Thanks for the well-organized input,
Dominique.
Regarding why Convention is where it is when it is--the frequency that the
Convention goes East was intended to mirror the demographics of our sport. I
think it is great that the majority have easy access most of the time, but
that the minority get the opportunity to have it in their own backyard often
enough to enjoy without a major trip.
For the record--I have been East to both conventions, and don't see that
getting on a plane is much more of a deterent than the seven hour drive to
Reno. Actual time off work is the same, rooms and food are about the same,
and it is only a couple hundred more to fly East than to drive to Reno. I am
sure the same can be said in the other direction.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Duncan Fletcher" <dfletche@gte.net>
To: <bobmorris@rmci.net>, "Teresa Van Hove" <vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu>,
<RUN4BEAR@aol.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: trail preservation
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:18:50 -0800
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It is difficult for an organization that is basically set up to do one thing
(and whose members belong to that organization to do one thing) to
sucessfully take on a different function (even when there is a
relationship). The organization that is in the forefront of these issues is
Backcountry Horsemen of America. At this time, unfortunately, there are a
lot of states with no chapters. They do want to expand, but it takes a lot
of live bodies in those missing areas to make it happen. If you are
seriously interested in these issues, get some like minded people in your
area together and contact BCHA. I am including information below on contacts
with BCHA and its affiliated state chapters.
BCH of America
PO Box 597
Columbia Falls, MT 59912
360-893-8887 (This is correct - the telephone contact is in Washington
state)
Exec. Sec.
Peg Greiwe
22815 168th Ave E
Graham, WA 98338-7609
360-893-6248
FAX 360-893-6248
Expansion Coordinator
Les Linendoll
509 Bass Ln
Corvalis, MT 59828
406-961-4249
Arizona
Rt 4, Box 739
Flagstaff, AZ 86001
520-774-1676
Arkansas
BCH of the Ozarks
HC 33, Box 51
Compton, AR 86001
520-774-1676
e-mail: BCHO@yournet.com
web page: http://members.yournet.com/bcho/bcho2.html
BCH of California
PO Box 520
Springville, CA 93265
209-539-3394
web page: http://www.bchc.com/
BCH of Colorada
325 8th St
Penrose, CO 81240
719-372-0251
BCH of Idaho
PO Box 513
Salmon, ID 83467
208-324-8610
web site: : http://www.povn.com/bch/
Missouri - see Arkansas
BCH of Montana
PO Box 5431
Helena, MT 59604
406-596-4146
BCH of Nevada
PO Box 22021
Carson City, NV 89721
702-853-1033
BCH of New Mexico
PO Box 53941
Albuquerque, NM 87153
505-281-4136
BCH of North Carolina
PO Box 158
Lake Junaluska, NC 28745
704-251-6200
Oklahoma - see Arkansas
Oregon
PO Box 397
LaGrande, OR 97850
541-963-7747
BCH of Utah
PO Box 13195
Ogden, UT 84412
801-782-4955
BCH of Washington
11839 Glenwood Rd SW
Port Orchard, WA 98366
360-895-0656
web page: http://www.bchw.org/
BCH of Wyoming
PO Box 3194
Gillette, WY 82717
307-686-2682
Duncan Fletcher
dfletche@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert J. Morris <bobmorris@rmci.net>
>I am sorry to say that a committee or foundation is only as good/effective
>as the effort that people are willing to put into it.The AERC Trails
>Committee has 11 members scattered through out the entire United States.
>Those 11 people SHOULD BE SUPPORTED by at least 1100 additional persons. I
>am willing to bet there is not 110 members willing to support the effort as
>the committee members have.
>[much more good information snipped]
>
>Bob Morris
>Morris Endurance Enterprises
>Boise, ID
>
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From: wine-o@pacbell.net
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As an AERC member and supporter I go to the National Convention where
ever it is, east coast or west. When it is held in Reno it is easier
for me to get there for obvious reasons since I live here in
California. When the AERC selected Lexington I did not complain, I
went to support my sport and my affliation with our organization. West
coast members were present in most of the committee meetings,
banquets, seminars. Exhibitors from the west coast were there in
force also. This was not a regional convention, this was a national
convention celebrating our sport and the comradre between riders
across the nation! I'm sorry if we did not meet all the east coast
members last week, but we sure tried to.
To respond to the idea that members will not go to the national
convention because of regional conferences I give you this,
there are at least nine seperate regional conferences or conventions
held during the year in there respected areas.
PNER, SW Region, SE conference, Mountain, Midwest, Central, Pacific
South, West, I hope I didn't leave anyone out correct me if I did!
Those of us who were able to go to Lexington will probably go to our
regional conferences also. Those who were unable to travel on that
date due to work, children, farms and those items pertaining to life
get a second chance to participate in a event celebrating our sport,
learning new advances in equine care, celebrating our local hero's and
catching up with old friends while meeting new one's in a setting
closer to home. Unfortunately not everyone was able to go to
Lexington and in the future not everyone will be able to travel to
Reno or some other destination in the U.S. This gives the balance of
the membership an oppurtunity to participate. These regional
conventions also give us an oppurtunity to introduce our sport, our
organization to local new riders who would otherwise not have had the
chance. The regional conferences help our sport by promoting it at
the local level.
Best of riding!
Mike.
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From: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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Every one of us should take Bob Morris's post to heart about trail
preservation. We truly are in a crisis situation about access to our trails.
We are facing more and more stumbling blocks every year here in central Oregon
dealing with the Forest Service in trying to manage our rides, and many of our
roads and trails are being regulated to the point that riding is nearly
impossible.
I won't go into detail here about our own fights, but as a ride manager,
dealing with the Forest Service is probably the most frustrating, unrewarding
thing that I do. We are only a step away from having our "public" lands
banned to the very public to which they belong. If you love this sport, pick
up pen and paper and write to Senators, Congressmen, and anyone else you can
think of, defending multiple use for our public lands.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson)
Subject: Future AERC Convention Locations
Cc: equine_athletes@hotmail.com, RUN4BEAR@aol.com, hikryrdg@evansville.net
Greetings Heidi!
>Regarding why Convention is where it is when it is--the frequency that the
>Convention goes East was intended to mirror the demographics of our sport. I
>think it is great that the majority have easy access most of the time, but
>that the minority get the opportunity to have it in their own backyard often
>enough to enjoy without a major trip.
>
>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
What about the "minority" of members between the coasts? How about a
convention in Albuquerque, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Des Moines,
Houston, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Memphis, Minneapolis, New Orleans,
Phoenix, or Salt Lake City? I would be much more interested in attending
EVERY year if it were in a new place to visit. I think Dominique's idea of
a "Tradeshow" or Convention Committee is an excellent idea, and I would be
happy to volunteer to be a part of it - if the BOD agreed to rotate it
around these great regions of ours (AERC) - have it in Reno every third
year - doesn't the West Region constitute about a third of our members?!
Happitrails!
Brad.
1998 ENDURANCE CALENDAR
* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
(Briggsdale, CO)
* June 13: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride * IAHA Region
Eight 50 Mile Championship Ride * (Red Feather Lakes, CO)
* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
(Wellington, CO)
* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
Wyoming &
Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
is a seperate
event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
is July 1st)
* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
*Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
ride unless otherwise noted.
***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
- Teddy Roosevelt
RIDE INFO:
Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
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To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Breast Collars
Message-ID: <19980131.195505.3350.0.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <420386f0.34d2995b@aol.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:56:16 EST
>If your
>saddle stays put with no extra help, why add one more piece of tack to
>rub,
>snag, catch, or whatever?
The only reason I use a breast collar is to have a place to snap my
runnin martingale. THAT I need. As long as it's there, I hang my sponge
on it too.
One thing I have noticed is that lots of riders let the buckel on the
strap that goes over the neck sit right on the midline. That looks like
it would hurt after awhile. I took some foam and wrapped my strap right
where it goes over on one breastcollar. On the other it wasn't a
problem.
Angie and Kaboot
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To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cannon Bone measurements
Message-ID: <19980131.195505.3350.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
References: <56d82947.34d2ab70@aol.com>
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 07:56:16 EST
When our horses "build bone", I know it becomes more dense, but can they
become thicker in circumphrence? I was working a Race of Champions and
some of these horses had legs like Belgians! My old endurance horse
(which I sold to a Jr) seems to have bigger cannons than when he started
doing this back in 1990. Is that my imagination? They were never
measured. Maybe he just has more hair.
Angie McGhee, Kaboot, and Isaiah
>her recommendation upward to 8" per 1000#. It is important to
>remember that
>this measurement DOES relate to body weight--a 750# horse with 6-1/2"
>or
>6-3/4" has oodles of bone, while a 1200# horse with 8-1/2" is a bit on
>the
>flimsy side.
>
>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
>
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Subject: Re: Cannon Bone measurements
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:11:49 -0600
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: iggy <polstar@ll.net>
Subject: Re: Breast Collars
Personal response on the subject of safety equipment, *not to be mistaken
as a crutch........
If you have ever lost a saddle on a horse, and lived through it. It
doesn't mater for what reason... One might change their out look on the
subject (to use or not to use). I am not a (just incase person) I
understand the positive side of common sense, having been there.......
Sigrid
********************************
chris paus & star wrote
>thanks Heidi. Believe it or not, we have some steep hills and even cliffs
>(albeit grass covered cliffs) in Kansas. I have yet to use breast collar or
>crupper on Star.
>>
>>
>>
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In a message dated 98-01-30 20:20:27 EST, CMKSAGEHIL writes:
<<
<< How about:
What do you call a lawyer with a 40 IQ?
Teddy
>>
Gifted? >>
Good guess, I might say lucky, but the answers is: Your Honor....
Teddy
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:48:29 EST
To: bobmorris@rmci.net, vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu, ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-30 20:32:13 EST, bobmorris@rmci.net writes:
<<
Do not slight the Mt. Bikers, the 4x4 drivers, the ATVers, the snowmobilers
and the hikers. They are our allies not our foes. We all need the trails
and need to promote multi-use of those trails we have. Look into other
organizations like the Blue Ribbon Coalition. They were instrumental in
getting the Symms Fund passed and then extended.
>>
Bob:
I do realize they are our allies...but when it comes to maintenance, they come
first, there are MORE of them so they get heard. You are right, we need MORE
involvement from horsemen AND it IS a full-time job.
We need a lobbyist for our cause...and that takes $$$$. All over this country
I hear abolut trails problems. It is no small matter and someday we, our
children or our children's children will only ride trails in movies.
There is no way I have time to pursue all of this, It is tough enough to find
time to write letters and attend meetings much less ride.
By the way, does the American Horse Council address the trails issue? Is AERC
a member? I am not aware of it, if so, are we pursuing it?
Teddy
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:56:33 -0400 (EDT)
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From: Hall@cc.denison.edu (Jude Hall)
Subject: Re: Hay?...before and after
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Sue Garlinghouse wrote:
<snip>
>hay prices vary ALOT by region---out here in California, decent timothy
>is $18-20 for a 100 lb bale. Fat chance I'm spending that much for
>hay. High quality bermuda is around $9-10 for a 130-lb bale, which is
>nutritionally very similar to timothy.
<snip>
I've always wondered - *why* are bales of hay so big and heavy
in the West? Around here (I am in Ohio) the average bale is
about 50 lbs. I can't pick one of those up easily. Do the hay
balers out west think everyone is superhuman? I used to
live in AZ and I remember those monster bales!
Just curious why they bale so big...
Jude Hall
glad our bales aren't any heavier
and 50 lb. timothy runs about $2.00/bale
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:46:14 -0400 (EDT)
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From: Hall@cc.denison.edu (Jude Hall)
Subject: Re: trail preservation
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Teddy wrote:
<snip>
>
>By the way, does the American Horse Council address the trails issue? Is AERC
>a member? I am not aware of it, if so, are we pursuing it?
I was just about to mention American Horse Council when you message
came in --- Ohio's Chapter (OHC) is *very* active working with state officials
(Parks & State Forests) to maintain a good relationship and keep our trails.
I attended a Trail Advisory Meeting in November held by Ohio Dept. of Natural
Resources - a meeting between ODNR officials and interested horsemen -
mostly represented by various OHC county chapters. It was very encouraging,
there is a good horse-friendly atmosphere in Ohio for the most part and the
ODNR officials are receptive to ideas and provide the necessary funds for
a lot of trail maintenance. I feel this is due in large part to the efforts
of the
horse council members.
However, I don't know what the relationship is with the USFS - I will bring this
up to our OHC group - we do have large areas of National Forests in Ohio -
maybe the USFS folks could also meet with the OHC officials? Teddy, do you
have an active OHC group in your area (who would be good liasons with
USFS officials?) This is a critical issue and I'm glad you brought it up - I
wasn't aware of the problems in Wayne National Forest.
We have a wonderful trail system in Ohio now (over 1,000 miles) but if USFS
sets a precedent in "their" forests.....
Jude Hall
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:17:17 EST
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Hi, Angie--
Although I have no data to back it up, I would say by observation that yes,
bone does increase somewhat over years of conditioning and use. Keep in mind,
though, that when you go to top rides like ROC and FEI events, you are seeing
a collection of the best of the campaigners, and most of them started with
good to great bone in the beginning. Hence, many will have FABULOUS bone well
into a successful career.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 09:19:36 -0700
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: bluestar@xmission.com (Judah Robb Lyons)
Subject: marciante and balanced stirrups
has anyone hadd any experience withe the marciante saddle? Are the stirrups
hung in the proper position for standing in the saddle? You can email me
privately.
Thanks, Jman
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:26:05 -0600 (CST)
From: "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
To: Ridecamp <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: the AERC Convention
In-Reply-To: <a4b66f9b.34d2bfbf@aol.com>
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> Regarding why Convention is where it is when it is--the frequency that the
> Convention goes East was intended to mirror the demographics of our sport.
That is certainly a logical explanation, and follows one standard
philosophy in the convention business. However, just to throw out an
idea (since I love stirring up discussion), has AERC considered the value
of actively trying to increase the number of endurance riders in the
East? By not only having the convention here, but actively advertising
it, as has already been mentioned (Case in Point: the Equine-L list is a
very very chatty horsey list, with lots of subscribers in the East, with
lots of posts about all kinds of horse events going on, but I don't
remember seeing one single post on there about the AERC convention.) And
I'm certain there are other means to achieve this goal (and a good
marketing specialist could tell you better than I).
I say this as a newcomer to the sport, living in Mobile, AL, who has not
yet found one endurance rider closer than 100 miles away in any direction.
(And if not for Ridecamp, I wouldn't have found any at all.) I look at the
ride schedule in EN and am green with envy at all the rides happening out
West, while in the SE we have perhaps 1/3 (just guessing?) the number of
rides, and at far greater distances -- I will have to drive 300-400 miles
to most rides in my region this year. Obviously that increases the
expense and decreases the number of rides I can attend.
Now, I'm NOT saying all this to say "woe is Glenda" -- my point is, the
only way for these conditions to "improve" for me (and others like me, all
over the East) is through an increase in the number of endurance riders in
the area, which will increase the number of rides, and the number of
potential training partners, and the potential Fun Factor <g>.
I know that there are times in an organization's life when maintenance is
a priority, and times when expansion is a priority. I've read that AERC
has undergone some serious problems in the recent past, and is now
recovering. Perhaps now would be a good time for the AERC to consider,
in moving from maintenance mode to expansion mode, the value and
potential benefit of a concerted effort to increase membership -- and
participation in the sport as a whole -- in the East.
Just a thought.
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
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One thing to keep in mind is that big bone is soft bone. Less dense.
Especially in young horses.
ti
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To: rides2far@juno.com, CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com
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In a message dated 98-01-31 08:51:53 EST, rides2far@juno.com writes:
<< When our horses "build bone", I know it becomes more dense, but can they
become thicker in circumphrence? I was working a Race of Champions and
some of these horses had legs like Belgians! My old endurance horse
(which I sold to a Jr) seems to have bigger cannons than when he started
doing this back in 1990. Is that my imagination? They were never
measured. Maybe he just has more hair.
Angie McGhee >>
Yes, they will slowly develop thicker bone with conditioning--even older
horses will do this. With racehorses the problem is that we introduce speed
too quickly and the bone tries to remodel too quickly, pulling its minerals
from within to a large extent--you get a drop in density as you get an
increase in circumference. This leads to splints, bucked shins, and sometimes
fractures.
ti
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:38:49 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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Chris, just for general info., Kansas City is the probable site of the
mid-year AERC Board meeting in July, 1998.
Board meetinings are open to all members and you are most welcome to
attend. Watch Endurance News for the details.
Also, we should have the first two days of National Rider Development
Program seminars ready for testing. If there is enough interest, we
might try to do the presentation the week before the Board Meeting at
the same hotel. Do you think we could get 20 to 30 riders from your
area to attend?
Ramey
Ramey & Cynthia Peticolas-Stroud
Cascade Endurance Center
Lyons, Oregon
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Tom Ivers makes the excellent point that no matter the bone, the problems
generally come from too much speed too fast. Tom wrote the book on dynamics
of bone, but I think it is worth mention in this format (I hope Tom will add
more detail) that bone actually DE-mineralizes for a period of time at the
onset of conditioning (several weeks) and is at its weakest at about the point
in race training that the horse starts to feel really good metabolically.
Hence, the speed is poured on and the horse breaks down. We see this to a
lesser degree in this sport, but nonetheless, we see it. As the bone
reconfigures itself to the new stresses being added, it begins to remineralize
in a stronger fashion, and only after this is accomplished does one really
have strong bone.
As to big bone in young horses, my experience is anecdotal, but I feel that
there is a tremendous genetic variation in density of bone. I would tend to
want to select horses from families that hold up, regardless of circumference,
and especially prize individuals from those families with larger bone. I
think the density issue relates more to a QUALITY of bone that is impossible
to measure with a tape measure but is evident in the eye of the experienced
horseman as clean, flat bone. I know I have found a strong correlation
between structure that I admire and whether I see that horse back year after
year on the circuit, and I don't tape all those horses as I vet them in... I
know there have been some radiographic studies done about this, too, and while
I can't recall the bottom line, I remember finding them interesting. Tom, do
you have any more info about that?
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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From: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>
To: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: the AERC Convention
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 10:43:46 -0700
Message-ID: <01bd2e6f$c7a26c40$868287cf@willard>
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>>
>>
Glenda wrote:
I say this as a newcomer to the sport, living in Mobile, AL, who has not
yet found one endurance rider closer than 100 miles away in any direction.
(And if not for Ridecamp, I wouldn't have found any at all.) I look at the
ride schedule in EN and am green with envy at all the rides happening out
West, while in the SE we have perhaps 1/3 (just guessing?) the number of
rides, and at far greater distances -- I will have to drive 300-400 miles
to most rides in my region this year. Obviously that increases the
expense and decreases the number of rides I can attend.
>>
This problem is not just limited to your area. I live in northern Utah and
am having a heck of a time finding rides any closer than a 3-4 hour
drive,besides the fact that there is no one in my area to ride or train
with. Most rides are an average of 6-10 hours drive time away. Maybe more
publicity would help. I know that the western riding clubs of Utah would
consider themselves the best kept secret in Utah. You would think that with
all the mountains and beautiful scenery we have around here, there would be
more interest in endurance riding. Maybe we just have too many cowboy types
that think if they just go run their horses around all weekend that they are
great riders. >G< I like the idea of changing locations of the national
convention every year as this gives more people a chance to attend in
different areas. We follow this arrangement with my riding club assoc. The
state convention follows a rotating schedule of south, central, and northern
areas in order to accomodate many different people and regions. It is not
always as convenient to go to another location but you know that eventually
they will come back to your area.
Carrie
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Put the little buggers (without touching them) in a cap from another container
(saved for this purpose). Pull lower lip out slightly and drop them into the
gum line. They will dissolve there the same as putting under the tongue of a
more co-operative patient.
Not overly original but as some Homeopathics are so small the getting them
from original container to alternate container without touching/spilling them
may need more originality than how to get them into the horse without touching
them.....Good Luck! Cindy
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'Neck-ties' are designed to be continuously rotated (flipped over). I agree
with you-it doesn't seem to be as cold as I would like. The distributor at
the convention last year explained that is still has a big cooling factor on
the venous blood flow even though the 'surface' cooling seems minimal. CS
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:56:29 EST
To: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-31 12:44:19 EST, CMKSAGEHIL writes:
<< I think the density issue relates more to a QUALITY of bone that is
impossible to measure with a tape measure but is evident in the eye of the
experienced horseman as clean, flat bone. I know I have found a strong
correlation between structure that I admire and whether I see that horse back
year after year on the circuit, and I don't tape all those horses as I vet
them in... I know there have been some radiographic studies done about this,
too, and while I can't recall the bottom line, I remember finding them
interesting. Tom, do you have any more info about that?
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon) >>
The bone remodels to accommodate the stressors it encounters--these in
racehorse being bending and twisting forces, mainly in the forelegs. A paper
in the German AESM symposium outline a procedure for measuring the strength of
the shape of the cannon bone using x-rays--basically, the front of the cannon
bone should be twice as thick as the back part of the bone--an oblong donut.
We spent some time using the NIBBs system of through and through ultrasound
for measurement of bone density. That's where the "big bone is soft bone"
concept comes from. In young horses going into training the changes are quite
dynamic. One thing we found is that a high stress workout will cause a
decrement in bone density that is half paid back in a week and back to normal
in two weeks--all this from 1/4 mile of maximum effort.
A progressively loaded exercise regime, where speed is increased slice by
slice avoids most problems unless the horse has very heavy bone. In that
case,not only are the cannon bones soft and subject to injury, but the joints,
too are easily damaged. There are some vets using an aluminum block that is
graduated in thickness next to a bone for x-ray density estimation. Due to
variations in x-ray technique, this is difficult to accomplish and quantify.
Using infrared thermography, we can see the preliminary signs of softness in
the lower legs--splints coming on, inflamed areas on the cannon bone, joints
heating up, etc. That's my best diagnostic tool.
ti
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:06:27 -0600
To: mbp@holly.colostate.edu (Brad Patterson), ridecamp@endurance.net
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: Future AERC Convention Locations
Cc: equine_athletes@hotmail.com, RUN4BEAR@aol.com, hikryrdg@evansville.net
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I was a meeting planner in a former life. I would be glad to volunteer also.
chris paus
At 12:31 AM 1/31/98 -0700, Brad Patterson wrote:
>Greetings Heidi!
>
>>Regarding why Convention is where it is when it is--the frequency that the
>>Convention goes East was intended to mirror the demographics of our
sport. I
>>think it is great that the majority have easy access most of the time, but
>>that the minority get the opportunity to have it in their own backyard often
>>enough to enjoy without a major trip.
>>
>>Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
>
>What about the "minority" of members between the coasts? How about a
>convention in Albuquerque, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, Detroit, Des Moines,
>Houston, Indianapolis, Kansas City, Memphis, Minneapolis, New Orleans,
>Phoenix, or Salt Lake City? I would be much more interested in attending
>EVERY year if it were in a new place to visit. I think Dominique's idea of
>a "Tradeshow" or Convention Committee is an excellent idea, and I would be
>happy to volunteer to be a part of it - if the BOD agreed to rotate it
>around these great regions of ours (AERC) - have it in Reno every third
>year - doesn't the West Region constitute about a third of our members?!
>
>Happitrails!
>Brad.
>
>
>
> 1998 ENDURANCE
CALENDAR
>
>* April 11: BOXELDER TRAILS 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride (Wellington, CO)
>* April 25-26: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS I 25/50/75/100 Elevator/25/50 & 15 mile
> ROOKIE Rides * Mountain Region National Series Championship Ride *
> (Briggsdale, CO)
>* June 13: BEAVER MEADOWS 25/50/75/100 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride * IAHA Region
> Eight 50 Mile Championship Ride * (Red Feather Lakes, CO)
>* July 18: A MIDSUMMER'S MOONLIGHT RIDE 30/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Ride
> (Wellington, CO)
>* August 3-7: 2ND ANNUAL ROCKY MOUNTAIN RIDE 55/55/55/55/30-55 *Pioneer
> Event * (Monday-Friday; Arlington, Centennial and Mountain Home,
>Wyoming &
> Gould, Red Feather Lakes, and Stove Prairie, Colorado - Each day
>is a seperate
> event, and rig drivers are available - Pre-Registration deadline
>is July 1st)
>* September 5-7: HORSETHIEF PASS 25/50/25/50/25/50 & 15 mile ROOKIE Rides
> *Pioneer Event* (Walden, CO)
>* October 17: PAWNEE GRASSLANDS II 30/50/75/100 Elevator & 15 mile ROOKIE
> Ride (Briggsdale, CO)
>* November-December: Winter rides to be announced.
>
> ***All Pre-Registration deadlines are nine days (postmarked) before the
>ride unless otherwise noted.
>
> ***PLEASE, IF YOU DON'T RIDE THE RIDE, VOLUNTEER!***
>
>"There is no better way to see the world than from the back of a horse."
>
>- Teddy Roosevelt
>
>RIDE INFO:
> Email: mbp@holly.colostate.edu
>Mail: 1600 West Plum Street #28-H, Fort Collins, Colorado 80521
>Phone/Fax: 970-491-8891
>
>
>
>
nterested in attending
>EVERY year if it were in a new place to visit. I think Dominique's idea of
>a "Tradeshow" or Convention Committee is an excellent idea, and I would be
>happy to volunteer to be a part of it - if the BOD agreed to rotate it
>around these great regions of ours (AERC) - have it in Ren6754 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002445 06464703314 0013123 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from iceland.it.earthlink.net (iceland-c.it.earthlink.net [204.119.177.28]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA16719 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:17:12 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:16:02 -0500
From: "Linda S. Flemmer" <bluwolf@earthlink.net>
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To: "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cannon Bone measurements
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Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
> When our horses "build bone", I know it becomes more dense, but can they
> become thicker in circumphrence?
I wondered the same thing. When I got my new, unbroke gelding several
years ago, I measured his cannon bone, then I repeated it 2 years later
after some good work. He went from 8 1/4" to 8 1/2" at the same
location.
Have others noticed this too?
Linda Flemmer
Blue Wolf Ranch
Bruceton Mills, WV
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 14:26:56 -0600
To: "Craig W. Hadley" <willard@eagleut.com>, <ridecamp@endurance.net>
From: Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
Subject: Re: the AERC Convention
In-Reply-To: <01bd2e6f$c7a26c40$868287cf@willard>
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I guess we are lucky in Kansas. I could do a ride at least once a month
from April to November within a 2 hour drive of my home!
chris paus & star
At 10:43 AM 1/31/98 -0700, Craig W. Hadley wrote:
>>>
>>>
>Glenda wrote:
>I say this as a newcomer to the sport, living in Mobile, AL, who has not
>yet found one endurance rider closer than 100 miles away in any direction.
>(And if not for Ridecamp, I wouldn't have found any at all.) I look at the
>ride schedule in EN and am green with envy at all the rides happening out
>West, while in the SE we have perhaps 1/3 (just guessing?) the number of
>rides, and at far greater distances -- I will have to drive 300-400 miles
>to most rides in my region this year. Obviously that increases the
>expense and decreases the number of rides I can attend.
>>>
>
>This problem is not just limited to your area. I live in northern Utah and
>am having a heck of a time finding rides any closer than a 3-4 hour
>drive,besides the fact that there is no one in my area to ride or train
>with. Most rides are an average of 6-10 hours drive time away. Maybe more
>publicity would help. I know that the western riding clubs of Utah would
>consider themselves the best kept secret in Utah. You would think that with
>all the mountains and beautiful scenery we have around here, there would be
>more interest in endurance riding. Maybe we just have too many cowboy types
>that think if they just go run their horses around all weekend that they are
>great riders. >G< I like the idea of changing locations of the national
>convention every year as this gives more people a chance to attend in
>different areas. We follow this arrangement with my riding club assoc. The
>state convention follows a rotating schedule of south, central, and northern
>areas in order to accomodate many different people and regions. It is not
>always as convenient to go to another location but you know that eventually
>they will come back to your area.
>
>Carrie
>
>
>
>
>
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From: "sumralls" <sumralls@gateway.net>
To: <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Re: Quality Hay
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:41:46 -0500
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Susan,
I just read your reply to the person inquiring about timothy hay.
Out of curiosity, I have a few questions for you.
I am aware of a big, fancy Arabian breeder (very expensive and successful
show horses) who feeds straight alfalfa to the stalled show horses. If you
say it's best to feed quality grass plus a little alfalfa thrown in, what
do you think about feeding horses straight alfalfa? These horses in
particular, most are not ridden, just lunged and halter shown. (I'm not
sitting in judgement, just curious)
I have also heard that if you feed alfalfa all the time, then throw in a
bale of grass hay because maybe you ran out and it was a fix until you got
more alfalfa, there's a good chance your horse will colic. ( I ride with an
equine vet weekly, and he gets these type of colic calls regularly). I'm
curious why this is so.
Also, if your horse is not "working" but out to pasture, is it necessary
to add a bit of alfalfa to your grass hay? On the other hand, if you are
working your endurance horse, are you doing wrong by only feeding grass
hay? (We feed hay regularly only in the winter when there's no grass).
One more question: The "most attractive" pastures I've seen seem to be
fescue pastures. They're thick and seem to cover the ground very well,
even in winter. If you were to create your ideal pasture, what would be
your top two choices for pasture grass? (I know pregnant mares can't be on
fescue, but this aside) And what would be the pros and cons of these
choices?
I hope my questions are clear. Thanks in advance for the info.
Lori Sumrall
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 12:44:24 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: "Angela C. McGhee" <rides2far@juno.com>
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cannon Bone measurements
References: <56d82947.34d2ab70@aol.com> <19980131.195505.3350.1.Rides2far@juno.com>
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Angela C. McGhee wrote:
>
> When our horses "build bone", I know it becomes more dense, but can they
> become thicker in circumphrence? I was working a Race of Champions and
> some of these horses had legs like Belgians! My old endurance horse
> (which I sold to a Jr) seems to have bigger cannons than when he started
> doing this back in 1990. Is that my imagination? They were never
> measured. Maybe he just has more hair.
Yup,bone that is subjected to repeated, low level stress will respond by
adding more bone and increasing the circumference. Somewhere around
here I have a study that observed significant response in bone after
only walking on hard packed dirt for about a hundred yards or so four
days a week. I know Cato added 3/4" to the circumference of his cannons
in about three years of conditioning. The key is to remember to provide
additional stress to bones in small, frequent increments, not to try to
build bone overnight by excessive work on hard ground that will injure
soft tissue.
Susan Garlinghouse
>
> Angie McGhee, Kaboot, and Isaiah
>
> >her recommendation upward to 8" per 1000#. It is important to
> >remember that
> >this measurement DOES relate to body weight--a 750# horse with 6-1/2"
> >or
> >6-3/4" has oodles of bone, while a 1200# horse with 8-1/2" is a bit on
> >the
> >flimsy side.
> >
> >Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
> >
> >
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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From: "Linda B. Merims" <lbm@ici.net>
X-Sender: lbm@klingon
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cannon Bone measurements
In-Reply-To: <3e20bf78.34d381f0@aol.com>
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On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 Tivers@aol.com wrote:
> ...There are some vets using an aluminum block that is
> graduated in thickness next to a bone for x-ray density estimation. Due to
> variations in x-ray technique, this is difficult to accomplish and quantify.
>
> Using infrared thermography, we can see the preliminary signs of softness in
> the lower legs--splints coming on, inflamed areas on the cannon bone, joints
> heating up, etc. That's my best diagnostic tool.
I once had a talk with George Pratt. He is a full professor of
electrical engineering at MIT who has been very interested
in equine locomotion for many years. (For people who don't know, he was
the guy around which the Nova series entry "A Magic Way of Going" about
race horses was written.) I remember him telling me that he had made
himself and MIT a bundle of money by inventing a machine that could
measure bone density. He said it had made its bundle not measuring horse
bone density, but as a diagnostic tool in human geriatric medicine.
Ring any bells?
Linda B. Merims
lbm@ici.net
Massachusetts, USA
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:59:40 EST
To: paus@micoks.net, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Good for you, Chris, to be active in trail preservation in your local area.
As long as you can make progress locally, that is probably where your time is
best spent. If we would all make some local effort, we could have a
tremendous impact on the problem.
Heidi Smith, DVM--Sagehill Arabians (Oregon)
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:07:42 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: ramey@wvi.com
CC: "'RUN4BEAR'" <RUN4BEAR@aol.com>,
"'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>,
equest@pacbell.net
Subject: Ride Development Program
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> Also, we should have the first two days of National Rider Development
> Program seminars ready for testing. If there is enough interest, we
> might try to do the presentation the week before the Board Meeting at
> the same hotel. Do you think we could get 20 to 30 riders from your
> area to attend?
>
> Ramey
Ramey, just a thought---instead of trying to organize live
presentations, why not produce a series of good-quality
video-tape-and-syllabus-packages that can be obtained by anyone through
AERC? Seems it wouldn't be difficult to rent the tapes out for a
nominal charge to cover the cost of production and administration, and
provide the syllabus at the cost of xeroxing and shipping. That way,
any small group (or individual) could get the same quality of
instruction without a) having to get to a scheduled live seminar that
may or may not be feasible to get to, b) you don't lose alot in the
translation by trying to play post office and passing information on
second, third and fourth-hand, which IS what happens in
train-the-trainer format (we've tried this at Cal Poly, and the quality
of information breaks down VERY quickly) and c) the information is going
to be just as available two or three or five years down the road as it
is now---providing a live presentation is fine for someone interested in
it this year, but there are new people coming into the sport every day,
and I can't feasibly see a group of lecturers continually touring the
country.
And if anyone is saying to themselves, "fine, are you volunteering?",
well, sure I am. Educational videos just aren't that hard to do well.
Been there, done THAT, too.
Susan Garlinghouse
terest, we
> might try to do the presentation the week before the Board Meeting at
> the same hotel. Do you think we could get 20 to 30 riders from your
> area to attend?
>
> Ramey
Ramey, just a thought---instead of trying to organize live
presentations, why not produce a series of good-quality
video-tape-and-syllabus-packages that can be obtained by anyone through
AERC? Seems it wouldn't be diffi6761 0100660 0000052 0000066 00000002727 06464712276 0013133 0 ustar 00majordom majordom 0000040 0000012 Received: from mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net (mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.34]) by fsr.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA21818 for <ridecamp@endurance.net>; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:16:41 -0800 (PST)
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 13:15:29 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
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Hi Lori,
Boy, I could go on for days answering your feed questions (and will
probably do so)---would you mind if I cc'ed the entire list? I've found
if one person is asking the question, there are probably numerous others
also interested and you might as well get all the bang for your buck you
can.
Is that okay with you? (I assume it's probably okay, but made the
mistake of publicly replying to a question that had been sent privately
and got flmaed for it, for thought I'd ask this time).
Talk to ya soon,
Susan
P.S. Glad you liked the breastcollar post---I'm not all that witty, just
a smartass with a big mouth :-D
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 15:40:41 -0600
From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
Organization: Manuel LaBoure Ranch
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Subject: Horse that stumbled - final report
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I sent the following report to some private email addresses, but dediced
to post it here (after receiving such good response) in the hopes that
it might help someone with the same problem.
Subject: Appointment with Vet/Chiropractor
I should say Vet/Chiropractor/Acupuncturist/Homeopathic Doctor!!
Wow, what an education!! Bob and I spent almost two hours with this
doctor last night while he examined and worked one of our horses. I
knew how to check a horse for a sore back, but this horse was sore
almost everywhere I didn't check! He was sore on the poll, neck,
shoulders, and rump! The Dr. first examined the horse all over and then
started checking for sore places. Gads. The poor horse. No wonder he
was stumbling.
The vet took a plastic needle case and started pressing on various
places on the horse. (The plastic just spared his fingers from all the
pressure.) As I said, the horse gave to pressure everywhere except
where I was used to pressing. He also had sore suspensories in both
front legs. Vet said horse was working off the front because he was too
sore to work off rear.
After this examination, we brought my saddle in and placed it on his
back without the pad. It fits pretty well but not absolutely
perfectly. He examined the saddle pad I use, which is a one inch thick
wool pad bought from a local saddle fitter (he did not fit my saddle -
just sold me the pad). The vet prefers wool but said my pad was too
flexible/
flimsy. He could press his finger into it and feel it on the other
side. He wants me to get another wool pad, but of a firmer consistency.
Vet also said horse's feet were in good shape (which is great because he
is due for a trim this weekend). We have him barefoot most of the time
because we are on sandy soil here. The only time I have him shod is if
we know we are going to a ride on rock, etc. Anyway awhile back, my
farrier stood me up for an important appointment and I had to find
someone else in a hurry. I called my cowboy friend who is a farrier and
actually works with horses, and have been using him ever since. The
original farrier kept this horse's toes long and tried rockering the
shoes, etc. He also trimmed the frogs up real pretty. My new farrier
has recently shortened this horse's toes to help with the stumbling,
which has indeed helped. Also, he does not trim the frogs and told me
that the frogs are the horse's shock absorbers. The Vet agreed with
this and told us that the best thing we could have done for this horse
was to shorten his toes!! Also said that if enough time had passed, the
problem (stumbling) probably would have solved itself by having the toes
shorter. So what I had originally thought was a really bad thing (when
my old farrier stood me up) turned out to be a blessing in disguise.
After the examination, the vet worked on the horse's sore places. When
he would press a sore spot, the horse would react and the vet would hold
it until he relaxed. Then he went on to the next spot, etc. He also
adjusted several places (chiropractic). Then on to the really
interesting part - he gave him an acupuncture treatment! He placed very
small needles at various places on all four feet. Then he used needles
on his back toward the rump. Those needles were four inches long, plus
the handle end! The horse never moved. You should have seen him at
this point. He looked like he was going through some kind of a barbaric
torture, however, he became so relaxed and dreamy eyed and lowered his
head. He was just loving it!
After all the above, we lead the horse outside and the vet showed us
some stretching exercises to do for him. Mainly bending the front legs
and stretching them out toward us until he "gave" us the leg. Also
flexing the head toward the rear - the horse is real good at doing
that. We are to do these stretching exercises before riding. Are to do
the acupressure (not puncture) twice a week. I'm supposed to find a
gizmo that you hold in your hand that has a round knob on it to work his
muscles. Also, I'm supposed to canter him more. Hurrah!
Anyway, this was a wonderful learning experience for both of us that we
can now transfer to all of our horses. I'm going to get another wool
pad, a knobby gizmo to work his sore spots out, and canter. And keep
his toes short.
Hope you all found this interesting. We sure did.
Amber
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To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: "AJ's Classical Gas" <ajsgas@imt.net>
Subject: Re: Saddle fit
>Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:11:26
>To: ridecamp-d@endurance.net, Ridecamp
>From: AJ's Classical Gas <ajsgas@imt.net>
>Subject: Re: Saddle fit
>
>>
>>Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 12:29:21 -0800 (PST)
>>Subject: Endurance Saddles
>>
>>From: Barb Peck
>>Email: bpeck@us.ibm.com
>> I'm a Sharon Saare fitter, as are afew others on this list, ....
>
>Barb, or anyone else:
>
>Is there a Sharon Saare saddle fit person in Montana anywhere? I just sold
my OF saddle, that was sliding so badly and need to look for something that
will fit my wider, no wither mare. I thought of having a saddle made
locally, but maybe not after talking with a "cowboy" saddle maker. He said
the tree is NEVER the cause of a saddle not fitting. He said all trees fit
the same and will fit any horse, I just needed to tighten my cinch. Pretty
scary huh!! I don't think I want one of his saddles:-) Anyway, anyone who
can suggest trees to try, or recommend a person who is really good at saddle
fit, I'd sure appreciate it.
>
Anne & the horses
(Dyskrete, Stuffy, Hadia and Tifla)
Jim & his good stuff
(Vintage Yellowstone Park Buses, parts and NOS)
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From: ChacoL@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:51:03 EST
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In a message dated 98-01-31 10:33:26 EST, Hall@cc.denison.edu writes:
>
> I've always wondered - *why* are bales of hay so big and heavy
> in the West? Around here (I am in Ohio) the average bale is
> about 50 lbs. I can't pick one of those up easily. Do the hay
> balers out west think everyone is superhuman? I used to
> live in AZ and I remember those monster bales!
>
I don't have a definitive answer, but here are some truisms that may be a
clue:
1) Hay is transported out West on flatbed trailers; most haulers won't handle
two-wire bales because it is unsafe. Has to do with securing the load.
2) Hay balers are not thinking about "us" at all, superhuman or otherwise.
Most hay grown in Calif. and Arizona is alfalfa, which is fed to cattle or
processed into feeds and handled only minimally by humans.
An alfalfa grower I knew in central Arizona did a land-office business selling
two-wire alfalfa to horse owners. It was cash and carry at the ranch. He
charged the same price that he was getting for three-wire bales.
I shopped around for some grass hay in northern California last year and could
find only one source that had three-wire bales so we could have it hauled to
the ranch. The horses are thriving on it and wasting a LOT less than the oat
hay they were fed in previous years.
Linda
San Francisco
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:55:23 EST
To: grs@theneteffect.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
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In a message dated 98-01-31 13:57:46 EST, grs@theneteffect.com writes:
<< I know that there are times in an organization's life when maintenance is
a priority, and times when expansion is a priority. I've read that AERC
has undergone some serious problems in the recent past, and is now
recovering. Perhaps now would be a good time for the AERC to consider,
in moving from maintenance mode to expansion mode, the value and
potential benefit of a concerted effort to increase membership -- and
participation in the sport as a whole -- in the East.
Just a thought.
Glenda & Lakota (25 down, 1000s to go!)
>>
We have always been a small close-knit group. Not that we don't welcome
anyone else. In my view, AERC office has not been commanded to do what you
suggest. Many others have suggested similar ideas, yet the office continues
to be "blind" to the issue that if they are losing money, instead of
increasing dues, it would be worth their while to increase membership. You
don't do it by making convention fees high and not advertising it. The
Convention is the BEST place for a potontial new member to see what we are
like...yet NOTHING is done to encourgae them.
The office is acting much like the US Government. Instead of encouragement
and support, we are handed more fees to support their own lack of forsight and
inadequacies. Where do you see any ads outside Endurance News for our sport?
Very few.....
The old saying: "It takes money to make money" applies here as well. Perhaps a
less-expensive and more experienced executive director with a proven track
record on promotions and management is in order.
Teddy
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Tar Springs resembles that reply! (in 1992) Cindy
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From: Sally Aungier <aungish@unos.org>
To: "'ridecamp@endurance.net'" <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Subject: Suspended seat saddles/troopers
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:42:23 -0500
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I have had so many requests for more information about the trooper
saddles that I'm forwarding this information to everyone.
These are the vendors that I was able to identify when I purchased mine
(from Christie). The prices below may be a little out of date. My
catalogs are all 2 years old.
My general recommendations if you order a saddle is to have it rigged
engish if that is your preference. The billets on mine are long and I
use a plain leather english girth. I did not get the stirrups and use
my own Trail Techs with English strirrup leathers. The western leathers
on the Christie saddle are very nice also. You can have the saddle made
without the little status horn on the back on the seat (when you see
pictures you will understand what I'm talking about).
Christie Enterprises
Rt. 1, Box 285
Krum, TX 76249
817-482-3418
Lary and Ann Cox
Trooper comes in 2 basic styles for about $650. Excellent customer
service and fast turn around on orders. If you are a HW rider keep in
mind that there is only one seat size, however, Lary made mine with only
one layer of cushioning in the seat in order to give me more room and
it works great for me and you are still well padded.
Tucker Saddlery
6135 Mt. Moriah
Suite 116
Memphis, TN
800-882-5375
fax 901-366-6450
Several different styles ranging in price from $1000 - 1400
(approximately)
The Winners Circle
P.O. Box 964
Shelbyville, TN
800-298-7398
M&W Trooper saddle. About $675
Tarpin Hill Saddle Company
3643 Alma Hatchery Road
Salem, IL 62881
800-354-8964
Several different choices of leather and seat cushioning. Prices about
$500-600
They have a web page at http://www.tarpinhill.com
Jack Haggis
Box 133
Hyde Park, Ontario N0M1Z0
619-471-3927
Padded and plain seat styles. Cost $500-550
Hope this is helpful. I know 4-5 other folks locally that have bought
trooper saddles since seeing mine and they have all be very happy with
them.
Sally Aungier
UNOS, Manager for Membership Services
Richmond, VA
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 16:46:35 -0800
From: Susan Evans Garlinghouse <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>
Reply-To: suendavid@worldnet.att.net
Organization: Susan and David Garlinghouse
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To: sumralls@gateway.net
CC: ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Quality Hay
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sumralls wrote:
>
> I am aware of a big, fancy Arabian breeder who feeds straight alfalfa to the stalled show horses. If you
> say it's best to feed quality grass plus a little alfalfa thrown in, what
> do you think about feeding horses straight alfalfa? These horses in
> particular, most are not ridden, just lunged and halter shown. (I'm not
> sitting in judgement, just curious)
Also not passing judgment, but there are alot of barns with big money
horses (just ask Tom Ivers, he'll back me up) that do some pretty odd
things management-wise. Alot of people feed one thing or another just
because that's the way they were taught---not because of the science or
logic behind it, just because "that's just the way we always did it".
Plenty of people believe straight alfalfa, the greener and leafier the
better, is the best thing for a horse. I know of several trainers that
feed grass hay to their own horses but feed straight alfalfa to the
client's horses---not because alfalfa is the best thing for the horse,
but because the owner kicks up a fuss if he sees "that crummy dried-out
looking grass hay" being fed to their horse. Other trainers may not
just know any better.
I don't care for straight alfalfa for a number of reasons, some of which
apply to all horses, some not.
1) Alfalfa is generally a very rich hay, much higher in protein than
most horses need. In performance horses, this can increase the odds of
metabolic problems---Dr. Ralston posted the results of a study she did
that as protein levels increased, so did the instances of metabolic
failure. I think this was in eventing horses. There is other published
data that found that in TBs racing over different distances, as the % of
protein increased over NRC recommendations, so did the time required to
run a certain distance. In other words, the more protein they get over
requirements, the slower they ran.
In normal, everyday horses, there is increasing evidence to suggest that
high protein (as in straight alfalfa) rations produces temperament
problems (high horses) and skin problems like rashes and scratches.
High protein definitely requires more water to metabolize and produces
more ammonia, thus more urine, thus nastier stalls. If you had to stand
in a box stall 23 1/2 hours a day, would you want to breathe those
ammonia fumes all day? Horses being fed straight alfalfa also tend to
have a much thicker, more lathery sweat, even after they're in shape and
are clean, etc (in other words, even after other horses have sweated out
the gunk and started sweating thin, clear sweat). That thick, lathery
sweat is much less efficient at cooling than is thin, clear sweat, and
so in an endurance or eventing horse, recoveries would tend to be slower
than in a horse that didn't have to get rid of all that extra nitrogen.
There is also increasing evidence that high protein might be a factor in
bone problems like osteochondrosis in young, growing horses. There ARE
other factors that also contribute to leg problems in young horses, but
high protein levels are one of them as well.
2) Alfalfa is also very high in calcium. This isn't all that big a
problem, but there are some theories (that I happen to agree with) that
excessively high calcium levels contribute to a condition called
hypercalcitoninism. This just means that because the blood always
contains so much calcium from the alfalfa, the hormones responsible for
mobilizing calcium from the storage depots (the bone) get lazy. During
a long endurance race when alot of calcium is being used up, the
metabolic machinery may not be there to adequately supply the additional
calcium needed for all that exercise. As a result, you MAY have a
higher incidence of thumps, a condition due in part to calcium
depletion. However, this is still THEORY and as far as I know, hasn't
been really demonstrated yet, although a similar condition in dairy
cows, called milk fever, has been well documented. Any performance
problems (real or imagined) due to high calcium would apply only to
horses participating in sustained, aerobic exercise, not your everyday
pleasure horse, or show horses standing around all day.
3) Alfalfa grown in the Southwest is notoriously high in magnesium,
which is one of the three primary components of intestinal stones. The
other two are phosphorus and ammonia. Phosphorus comes from rations
high in cereal grains and/or bran and ammonia comes as a metabolic
by-product of high protein levels (like from alfalfa). Therefore,
southwest-grown alfalfa provides two out of the three elements necessary
for the formation of intestinal stones, which here in the southwest, is
a MAJOR cause of colic---I'm very sorry to say that we lost a very good
horse ourselves a month ago to complications of enterolith surgery. We
don't feed alfalfa ourselves, but he had been on straight alfalfa and
grain all his life before we bought him and as it turns out, had a nice
little crop of enteroliths that didn't show up on radiographs. We did
everything we could for him, but he died anyway, and it was an avoidable
problem.
Anyway, magnesium content and their relationship to enteroliths is a
concern pretty much only here in the southwest---but if you DO live in
the southwest, or get your alfalfa FROM the southwest, this is just one
more reason to not feed straight alfalfa. The high calcium content also
affects the pH of the equine gut and possibly this too has a
contributing effect on intestinal stone formation.
> I have also heard that if you feed alfalfa all the time, then throw in a
> bale of grass hay because maybe you ran out and it was a fix until you got
> more alfalfa, there's a good chance your horse will colic. ( I ride with an
> equine vet weekly, and he gets these type of colic calls regularly). I'm
> curious why this is so.
Alot of this is because there are different populations of microflora
that inhabit the gut to digest fiber. Horses (and other herbivores)
themselves cannot digest fiber, it's the little bugs in the gut that do
it for them. The populations of bugs constantly adjust to whatever
forage is currently on the menu, so the bugs hanging around expecting
alfalfa is going to be different from the bugs that would be there on a
regular diet of grass hay. So when an unexpected load of grass hay hits
the gut, the efficiency of the digestive system is lower than it would
be if the horse normally got grass hay. So the fiber passes into the
hindgut not fully digested and is more likely to cause an impaction and
colic.
> Also, if your horse is not "working" but out to pasture, is it necessary
> to add a bit of alfalfa to your grass hay? On the other hand, if you are
> working your endurance horse, are you doing wrong by only feeding grass
> hay?
Not necessarily to both questions. If the pasture is good quality
(well-planted, fertilized, etc), it very likely is providing enough
nutrition. If the pasture is NOT well-maintained, probably it isn't.
It also depends on the land the pasture is growing on---for example,
Florida tends to be deficient in almost every mineral (because the soil
itself is deficient), so unless the land is being fertilized with
minerals, the grass is going to be deficient, too. The soil quality can
swing the other way, too---some plants concentrate minerals, like
selenium, and so if a soil content is high already in selenium, you can
get toxic levels in the pasture grown on that soil.
As far as feeding only grass hay to working endurance horses, that's
fine. Most good quality (emphasis on "good quality") grass hays will
provide enough protein for a mature endurance horse, as well as
sufficient minerals. You are most likely to be deficient in energy,
which will need to be supplemented in the form of grains and/or fat and
possibly a few of the fat-soluble vitamins. If you feed a complete
grain mix, like Purina Adnatage or one of the LMF feeds or anything like
that, the feed manufacturers already know that and balanced the ration
to provide for that. If you're feeding straight grains, like
corn/oats/barley, it's probably a good idea to add a small amount of a
vitamin/mineral supplement (I just provide it free choice and let them
eat what they want). It's much better to provide just ONE
vitamin-mineral pack so that all the nutrients are in the right ratio to
each other, rather than try adding in a bit of this and a handful of
that. The only "purified" vitamins I personally add are biotin for the
hoof quality, and a bit of vitamin E, just because I happen to know the
particular ration I feed is deficient in E.
> One more question: The "most attractive" pastures I've seen seem to be
> fescue pastures. They're thick and seem to cover the ground very well,
> even in winter. If you were to create your ideal pasture, what would be
> your top two choices for pasture grass? (I know pregnant mares can't be on
> fescue, but this aside) And what would be the pros and cons of these
> choices?
Not to be vague, but again, you have to choose what works in your part
of the country. County extension agents are a terrific source of
information on what grows well in your area, and they can also help you
with finding out what type of soil you have and what to do to get a nice
pasture.
My personal favorite (and this is no great mystery) is a legume mixed
with a grass or two. If I was to go outside and plant something right
now, it would probably be bermuda or orchardgrass and a mixture of white
and crimson clover. That combination happens to do well pretty much all
year out here in California where we have hot summers, mild winters, not
a lot of rainfall (most of the time) and soil that's not always all that
fertile. It's also a pretty hardy pasture, doesn't need to be re-seeded
every year, grows well, is nutritious and fairly cheap to plant.
However, that's what works for THIS part of the country---this would be
a lousy choice for Minnesota or the Midwest. And what would be a great
pasture there wouldn't work here.
There are alot of different forages you can plant to get a nice
pasture. Hitting up your extension agent or a regional ag collefge for
suggestions would be a good bet.
Hope this answered your questions okay.
Susan Garlinghouse
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 18:00:46
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From: karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
Subject: ride photos
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I have put up 4 sample photos of the over 100 that Robyn took last week at
the Fire Mountain ride.
Also some other ride photos and info. It's new and will expand as time
permits.
The address is http://www.fix.net/~kclanin/famphoto.html
Jim Clanin
famphoto@fix.net
Family Photo
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:58:51 EST
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Amber,
Please follow up with the extended results.
ti
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From: "Bonnie & Mike" <mpirtle@wf.net>
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Subject: Christie saddle
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:24:07 -0600
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I have a current catalog, and the price is $575 for the complete saddle.
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:56:29 -0700
From: Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
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Subject: Re: Ride Development Program
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Your suggestion to produce video tapes is a good one. How would you
present them to regional audiences? What would you do to answer the
individual questions of each student?
Ramey
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From: "Angela Walton" <photon@wans.net>
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OK, Sandy, this sounds like fun, so I'll bite!
I ride most weekends and attempt at 1 day during the week. Usually log in
average 5 miles per day, more on good days!
Two horses, down to 1 after this weekend.
Office manager...and I remember the day Kennedy was shot...
over 40 and still hangin'
Angela Walton
Round Rock, Texas
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:20:24 -0800
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Ramey Peticolas-Stroud wrote:
>
> Your suggestion to produce video tapes is a good one. How would you
> present them to regional audiences? What would you do to answer the
> individual questions of each student?
>
> Ramey
Well, one possibility that we're developing at Cal Poly is a Distance
Learning Program---there's a real-time video link with an instructor at
one end, with a satellite link to the audience at the other end. Either
the entire class can be taught this way, or the video can be shown to
the entire group, and then individual questions asked and answered
through the uplink. At the moment, the equine exercise physiology class
at UC Davis is being taught this way, with the instructor never leaving
the Cal Poly campus.
It does require a certain amount of technology, but most universities
have the capability and are willing to cooperate for a sizeable group.
We've found, however, that if the video is well-thought out and run past
several groups to anticipate typical questions, than 95% of most
questions can be answered in the video itself, and therefore doing a
video link isn't vital.
Susan
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Subject: Re: Ride Development Program
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:22:41 EST
On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 19:56:29 -0700 Ramey Peticolas-Stroud <ramey@wvi.com>
writes:
>Your suggestion to produce video tapes is a good one. How would you
>present them to regional audiences? What would you do to answer the
>individual questions of each student?
>
>Ramey
>
Tell them how to get on Ridecamp
Angie
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To: Tivers@aol.com
Cc: CMKSAGEHIL@aol.com, ridecamp@endurance.net
Subject: Re: Cannon Bone measurements
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From: rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:22:41 EST
About the Tevis research. I think I read on here that there were more
pulls among the larger boned horses. Were there any stats on how many of
these were large boned Arabs, and how many of them were just "big ol'
horses" who probably had no business out there to begin with?
Just curious
Angie
On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:41:19 EST Tivers@aol.com writes:
>One thing to keep in mind is that big bone is soft bone. Less dense.
>Especially in young horses.
>
>ti
>
>
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:41:42 -0600
From: Lynette Helgeson <helgeson@lansford.ndak.net>
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Subject: Another saddle fit question, please
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Hi everyone,
I have purchased a new Big Horn endurance saddle and
I have done the baby powder on the back test and it seems
to fit pretty well. But when I cinch up my horse and start
riding the saddle always slides forward. I was watching
my daughter ride my horse today with this saddle and when
the saddle slides forward it looks like she is riding too far
forward. The rigging seems to be too far back on the saddle.
Does anyone have any idea on what I can do? The saddle
will slide forward even on flat land.
Thank you for answering another novices question
Lynette
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Date: Sat, 31 Jan 1998 23:07:11 -0800
To: ridecamp@endurance.net
From: keithr@nocdc.bc.ca (Ann Hatfield)
Subject: Tapering off before races and how many races in a year?
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I'm getting back to jogging so am happily reading books on running, not
that I intend to run as such. The Granddaddy of running clubs has a good
book out (The New York Running Club) and in it tapering off before a race
is discussed and also 'limited number of maximal efforts' within a year. I
wonder if there is any similarity in what is done in conditioning endurance
horses; I don't remember this in any discussions over the last year but
haven't checked the archives.
The NY Runners Club advocates cutting back on running time just before a
race: at least 2 weeks before reduce 20-30% and the week before 50% Don't
run the day before at all or easy jog at most.
Under 'training season and racing season' they suggest only 2 maximal
efforts per month and race only for a 3 month season. After a maximal
effort nothing hard for 4 or 5 days. After a marathon nothing hard for a
month.
What do you think-any parallels?
Ann
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Subject: Re: Convention RogerR
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Well I thought I would let the smoke settle before I commented.
The convention was just fine. I was quite busy, did not get to any of the
sessions on Fri or Sat. I thought I would.
I do believe the attendance was low compared to the Reno conventions. While I
did see many of the NE/SE riders I felt there were many more that should have
come. I hope those who did not show--do not complain later about the
convention going to Reno for the next 4 years.
I thought there should have been more local advertising. But then the home
office under new management and just moving into a new location was I am
sure, a bit overloaded. Under the conditions I think they did a good job.
Hopefully next year the office will be running a bit better.
I dont know what an organizing committee can do to intice members to come to
their annual convention. Member appathy? maybe-- other things going on.. costs
too much you name it.. I was just hoping for a larger showing of support.
I am very greatful to those who did come.
I had also hoped there just may be more NATRC riders in attendance. I did see
a few from the R5 area.
The education program was the largest we ever had, thanks to Ramey, the office
staff and all the 'local' speakers --- I am just sorry I missed it.. But those
members who attended SHOULD have learned alot..
The moving of a convention this size to different areas is a major effort. We
are too large for one site and too small for another. Then we need easy access
from land and air.
Many other orgs do rotate the convention. Each region hosts the show. That is
the host reagion does all or most of the work NOT the home office. Some of the
are IAHA, USCTA, and the assorted vet conventions.
Not so sure there is enough interest for all the AERC regions to take on the
responsibilty to put this together. I believe in the Atlanta convention alot
of effort came from the SE region major players like Susan K and Nina G.. this
time we had a major support from Amy Whelan and Connie Cawlldell -spelled
wrong-- but yall know who I mean.. However I believe the major effort came
from the AERC office.. If I am in error here.. I am sure someone will correct
me on this one. I do know the gang of riders from Kty- Daniel Boone
Endurance et-al did a nice job with the Fri night party dance.. good KTY
beer--
Anyway.. I had a grande time- this was my 9th ot 10th AERC convention, they
get better every year. We are pleased to be able to support the orginization
in our small
way.. because you support us. We enjoy giving back to AERC through
awards/sponsorships etc. We hope we can do more next year.
Thanks to ALL the WEST/PNER/MTN /SW/CT riders who came to support our
origanization. I hope more from the NE/SE will consider comming to Reno next
year.
As the new ride season starts.. think about the future of AERC. how can we
improve it and help to grow..
Lets just ride..
Roger R
VMAX EPT
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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:30:58 EST
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In a message dated 98-01-30 21:33:39 EST, slsf@foothill.net writes:
<< What has been the experience of people who have used these supplements?
Is giving them to a young horse just starting his career with no current
problems a good idea, or just a waste of money? Is there any advantage
of one particular brand over another?
Phil Gardner >>
HI Phil-- nice to see one of the foundation riders looking to the
improvements sicence has made to help out horses last longer..you bet it will
help preserve the long term use of any horse...
I have been using this stuff on my horses- (5) my dogs and me for about 5
years.
I see a difference. In ME-- the way my old marathon knees work better after 10
yrs of running without support or any nutricuticals.. back then I just ran
until I hurt or broke down.. AND so did my horses..
Of course different condidtioning methods have prevailed.. but if I had to
pick ONE supplement that has done the most for the gang of horses we run.. it
would be the GAG-CS products.
MY first choice is the ADEQUAN shots.. IF you have GOOD connections with a
ride-racing vet ..youjust may be able to get this at a fair price.. This has
been proven so many times.. It does prevent and correct DJD. What many
endurance horses are afflicted with... and still go on..this product given
once a month during the race season will help protect him from the tramua they
sustain.. and help it repair.
I give one shot in March.. then depending on the effort I am asking on shot
each month along with the oral supplements.
The ORAL supplements are suspect. DEPENDS on the ablity of the horses gut to
take up the product. It ahs been said the CS molecule is too large to be
absorbed .. well my 5 RAT 1 dog and 1 person anedotial study over the years
says it does work.
SOME better then others. MY choice was to test the LOWEST cost products..
I did the study by stopping the feeding of brandx until I noted problems with
pain in the knee, the dog cant jump on the couch and the OLD horses-- 20 and
24 .. went 'crunchy'.. a bit less spring in the trot etc.
then I would start up brand-y and wait.. IF the stuff works an improvement
will occur in about a week..If not I wait another week then get rid of that
product.
I suspect what will work for my horses.. may or may not work for yours.. has
to do with the balance of the digestion system..
Here is what I found that works -
NUPRO- MULTIFLEX- perna calius muscles.. sea criter. LOWEST cost..
VITA-FLEX pure cs max strength -- no filler why pay for middlings..costly
VITA-Flex Generation. this is their entry to take on Cosequen..its not as
costly.. but not cheap..
I tried SURE FLEX-- did not work too weak per dose.
SInce I have found 'stuff' that works..I have not tried all the others that
are out there.
They are all made from purified Bovine-cow- Treacha.. except for those few
made from the penra muscle..
The high cost comes from the refining process and the other stuff that is
added to make it work better.
No matter how much the other old timers and the pureists flame me on this
one.. I will continue giving these supplements to my horses for as long as
they are in competition. Its safe and will help to preserve and repair damage.
ALL the horses doing this sport are damaged to some degree no matter how fast
we go or how many miles they do per year..its a wear out issue. These products
are like a grease job.. to keep all the joints moving well and lubed.. (i..e
Mike Thomlison)
I believe it is safe to say MOST of the big guns.. use this stuff..and it
works..ask Becky and Val ..the ads say so? right? would these 2 say it works
if it does not?
Ask them.. ask RIO and CASH...
Roger R
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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:31:01 EST
To: hikryrdg@evansville.net, ramey@wvi.com, truman.prevatt@netsrq.com
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In a message dated 98-01-30 00:20:50 EST, hikryrdg@evansville.net writes:
<< Did you
notice the lack of west coast folks >>>DEALERS?<<<<at Lexingtion? Sometimes
I feel like
we are expected to go west but that the west coast riders could care less
about what is going on back here. Just a feeling. >>
Yes Jerry.. there was...less wetern dealers... problem seems the cost of
bringing a big tack shop EAST and then having a show where the attendess are
lower then expected or planned for and there may be more lookers then actual
buyers.. its makes the effort a bad businness deal..
We go west since our shop is small and thus our overheard is less..
I guess Teddy and I are the only EAST business that goes to Reno?
Then Ann from CT Tx.. any others Teddy? cant think of any..
Monti Mitts from Mo..
Dont think there are that many endurance related business here in the east..
to go west -- of course we do have the riders..and did you note how many
'winners' of awards were NOT there to pick up their prizes.. ?
insulting? appathy? no big deal?
You can BET IF I EVER place in national standings .. I WILL be there for
sure..be my luck we wont have any sponsors then..hehehe..
Still waiting on the actual show head count.. but since no one was at the
door.. we wont get a show count .. just those who bought tickets ..for the
sessions.
Roger R
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Date: Sun, 1 Feb 1998 02:30:59 EST
To: ldurkee@grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us, ridecamp@endurance.net
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Subject: Re: Chondroitin Sulfate
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In a message dated 98-01-30 13:31:36 EST, ldurkee@grouper.pasco.k12.fl.us
writes:
<< Chondroitin
Sulfate A, B, and C. What is the difference between these... >>
A is the one CS they can measure it is felt the 'A" is the one that does the
work.. to cause the body to make the synovial fluid.. a long chain process
that I am sure Susan or ti will expand on..but not really needed to understand
why we want to give this stuff..
The B an C cs is thought to 'help' the A.. but not measured.. my guess an
advertising issue..but what do I know..
Roger R
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