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saddle survery#4 (long)



Subject: 
      Re: reiner vs endurance model of the ss
  Date: 
      Tue, 20 Jan 98 16:45:39 PST
  From: 
      "Sullys Maze" <Sully@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
    To: 
      plough1@ix.netcom.com


REPLY TO 01/19/98 19:54 FROM PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com: Re: reiner vs
endurance
model of the ss

Hi Kimberly,

Lynn has a Stubben VSD that we bought and fitted for Ashley.  It is
a 32 cm tree (widest), and I even drove her down to Offuts and the
stubben rep fit her himself.  From everything I could tell, it fit
also.

I trained in it for several months, and had to put at least 2" of
foam rubber on top of the seat, UNDER a sheepskin cover, to make it
bearable, the seat was hard as a rock.

Lynn took her in the Mendocino 25, and after the ride, the vets said
she had some back soreness from that saddle.

Lynn at the time was about 10 lbs. heavier than me, but a very
balanced rider.

My feeling is that there is just not enough weight bearing area
, but maybe the survival has larger panels.  I sat in a survival,
but thought it was too "forward."

Lindsey down the road has an Arab/Orlov cross from Lari.  So picture
that type of back, large horse with substantial withers.  She
has ridden for years in a bighorn endurance (the one that
Sporttack claims fits a lot of horses), and she feels that her
horse has never had a sore back.

Might be worth a trip to the West convention in March to see if
saddle vendors have anything to look at.

Believe me, before I got the Sportsaddle, I looked at EVERYTHING!

KAREN

To:  PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com

ubject: 
      RE: saddles.
  Date: 
      Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:14:37 -0700
  From: 
      Suzanne Hayes <hlm5506@montana.com>
    To: 
      "'KIMBERLY PRICE'" <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>


Kimberly,

I'll make this quick cause I'm pressed for time, but I know that you're
trying to compile some stats for saddle research.

I think it's great you had Sandy come out.  I firmly believe in
Chiropractic work (for certain problems of course).  Wish I had one
close by!

Bummer, huh?
[Suzanne Hayes]  I hate trying to find a new saddle!  I went through the
"saddle search" after Kooter's 1990 season (1700 miles in competition
that year and he ended up with a few white hairs on his back, never sore
but the white hairs bothered me).  So I took the plunge and ordered an
ortho flex Endurance cutback.  Never did think it fit but Len did, as
well as Becky Hart.  Had to use a crupper and breast collar to keep it
on and Kooter just didn't seem happy.  After looking at many other
saddles and watching Kooter work with many different ones, I finally
decided my Stubben Sieg. VSD fit him better than any of the others.  I
had been using this saddle all along ( since about 1984) and come to the
conclusion that if you ride ANY horse 1700 miles in one season, they're
probably going to end up with a couple of white hairs!

Does your Stubben Sig. VSD come with attachements etc for a pommel bag? 
[Suzanne Hayes]  It has 2 D rings on the pommel which I put a key ring
thingy on to make it "bigger", and then use it for my pommel bag as well
as breastplate.  The pommel bag in the one Aust. Connect. sells that
carries 2 water bottles, and has a small pouch on the top that I put my
heart monitor transmitter in.  The saddle also has 1 D ring on the side
towards the back.  I have another one added on the other side by a
saddle maker.

 How do you keep your "stuff" on a dressage saddle during your rides? 
[Suzanne Hayes]  The only other things I have on my saddle is a sponge,
scoop, easyboot in bag (with odds and ends stuffed into the easyboot). 
That's it.  On some rides (such as Tevis), I will wear a fanny pack for
extra water, and places for things like gloves and flashlight.  I don't
carry alot of other stuff.  Maybe someday I will be sorry I don't have
more with me, but guess I have always felt I wanted to keep the weight
to the minimum.  There are enough vet checks throughout a ride to get me
through most problems.  
 
Are these saddles expensive?  
[Suzanne Hayes]  Not sure, I have had 2 of them (one for 15 years, the
other for 5).  I use one to condition with and the other for the rides. 
I think they're in the $1500. price range.

Kooter is tall and not as wide as 
Mystery, if I remember right, but what size saddle works on him?
[Suzanne Hayes]  I would actually like to get a wider saddle than I have
now.  I think the C tree width is what Kooter actually needs.  

Any other suggestions you have would be appreciated.
[Suzanne Hayes]  As soon as I get some extra money I am going to buy one
of those Arabian Horse saddles that Bev Gray sells.  Am sure you could
get them in a pretty wide tree that it sounds like Mystery needs.

My dream saddle (although I haven't seen them real close so not TOTALLY
sure) is the SR Enduro.  From what I've seen they look really good. 
$1800. or more though!

youngster's QH blood might be against him for endurance?
[Suzanne Hayes]  Hope not.  He is much more Arab looking than Quarter
horse (no heavy rear muscling).  Will have to wait and see though.

[Suzanne Hayes]  I hope I have given you some useful information.  Let
me know what you come up with in your saddle research!

Suzie
 


ubject: 
      Re: saddle types..more questions
  Date: 
      Wed, 21 Jan 1998 23:55:59, -0500
  From: 
      XXDU78A@prodigy.com (MS LOUISE D BURTON)
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


 Eventing seat is flatter.

  2.  Depends on the saddle.  Mine is based on western, tho really a
stretch (DeSoto saddle).  My husband's is based on English (Coligate
marathon)
Sure I can do arena work in anything *I* am comfortable in!

My husband rode a Stubben for years.  Absolutely wouldn't ride in
anything
else.  Finally had to give it up because it is just to narrow for our
wide
backed horses.  It rubbed in the back of the withers.  Got himself a
Marathon.  Loves it.  I hate it.  It is huge.  Way too big for me.  But
he
is 6 feet and I am 5'1.  I'd never trade my high pommel on my DeSoto
saddle.  Saved me going over my horse's head many a time!
Hope this helps.
Louise Burton & Fa Al Badi+/ (DeSoto for 3000 miles!)
FIredance Farms Endurance Arabians
Ok

Subject: 
      Re: saddle initiation...
  Date: 
      Thu, 22 Jan 1998 07:12:25 -0600
  From: 
      Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com (KIMBERLY PRICE)


THAT IS THE HARD PART. You will find yourself trying and returning or
selling many. I hope you are luckier than I was.

You might try Thornhill saddles. They  have a web site. They have good
quality leather english style saddles and have several endurance models.
One of theirs was the right size for Star. If the aussie had not worked,
I
would have gone with the Thornhill. Their saddles seem to be reasonably
priced. Ask them to send you a catalog. And they do allow returns. If
you
send them a wither tracing and pictures of your horse, they will be able
to
match you up better. I think the one I was looking at was around $600
with
stirrup leathers and all.

chris paus & starSubject: 
      saddle survey
  Date: 
      Thu, 22 Jan 1998 08:57:06 +0000
  From: 
      "Linnea Skoglund" <skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu>
    To: 
      plough1@ix.netcom.com


Kimberly,

I have a Sharron Saare Saddle.  The jury is out on it.  I haven't had 
much time on it even tho I have had it a year.  I think it fits my 
horse well and she is happy with it.  But I don't find the seat deep 
enough.  And am not real satisfied with the sirrup placement.  And I 
get terrible pain in one knee.  I am seriously thinking of selling 
and trying an english-cut saddle (used to use a Wintec multipurpose). 
But also, I ride a gaited horse - paso fino.  I think the saddle 
needs may be different.

Linnea


****************************************************
Linnea G. Skoglund, Ph.D.
Dept. Bioagricultural Sciences and Pest Management
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
970.491.6950
970.491.3862 (fax)
skoglund@lamar.colostate.edu
****************************************************

Subject: 
      Re: saddle survey
  Date: 
      Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:29:09 -0500
  From: 
      charle@tpc.tulane.edu (Charlene Bartholomae)
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


Kimberly,
        I'd like to know the responses regarding the Soft Rider (if you
have
any) and
any Australian saddles.
        Thanks.
        Subject: 
          Re: saddle survey
      Date: 
          Thu, 22 Jan 1998 11:45:37 EST
      From: 
          SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Organization: 
          AOL (http://www.aol.com)
        To: 
          PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


okay here goes - 
23 year old Arab mare: OF Express for training and cutback for races;
Crosby
Wembley II for students and PDN for jumping

12 yo Arab mare, OF Patriot for training and Cutback for racing; this
mare
feels like a tons of bricks over fences! OF Cutting saddle for newbies
on
trail rides.

13 year old stallion - OF cutback or Patriot for training and Cutback
for
races; Crosby PND for jumping and bareback for trail.

5 year old Arabian mare green - Patriot and Cutback for all riding
except ring
riding - PDN
sandy

Subject: 
         Re: need saddle web sites.
     Date: 
         Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:24:45 -0800
     From: 
         Lauren Horn <fourhorn@fea.net>
      To: 
         PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References: 
         1 , 2 , 3


Kimberly Price wrote:
 
> ***no I don't Lauren and I havn't heard of this one.....
> Kimberly


Many people ride in the Synergist Saddle. The most important feature of
it is it's "balanced" seat or dressage type seat. The saddle puts you in
a balanced position, not a forward (hunt-seat) or western seat (legs are
sticking out in front of you)

I grew up riding hunter/jumper and so I feel more comfortable in that
type of saddle, although there were a few things I liked about western
saddles too. So, when I went saddle shopping, I wanted to find a saddle
that combined the best of the two saddle types. I feel that I found it
in the Synergist.

Here is their web site: http://www.synergistsaddles.com/

The most important thing to remember is that there is no "best" or
"right" saddle. Everyone is different and they want different features.
The saddle that fits you and your horse is the saddle to buy.

Lauren


Subject: 
         Re: need saddle web sites.
     Date: 
         Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:39:30 -0800
     From: 
         Deanne Del Vecchio <delvecchio@geocities.com>
      To: 
         PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References: 
         1


Kimberly:

BOZ Saddlery at:  http://www.geocities.c
Subject: 
      Re: need saddle web sites.
  Date: 
      Thu, 22 Jan 1998 15:33:59 -0800 (PST)
  From: 
      Lucy C Trumbull <elsie@calweb.com>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


> Bighorn....
> 
> Some have commented their widest tree is too narrow for an arab, of
> course I have a big wide morab, any other comments on this?

I know you were asking about Stubbens, but I spent some
time talking to the guy at the tack shop in Auburn about
BigHorns.

Their tree is a 3/4 QH tree, I believe - but they do do
an arab tree too. The Saddle was around $420 brand new
and he had one sitting there, to compare with all the other
"normal" bighorns. He also had a second hand endurance 
model - which was more expensive - but you could get the
same effect by sawing off the horn. I think that had the
3/4 tree, though.

He had a ton of saddles (not kidding), so it might be worth
hauling Mystery over there and trying on a load?


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Lucy Chaplin Trumbull - elsie@calweb.com
Subject: 
      Re: need saddle web sites.
  Date: 
      Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:44:04 -0600 (CST)
  From: 
      "Glenda R. Snodgrass" <grs@theneteffect.com>
    To: 
      Kimberly Price <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>


try www.haynet.net -- they have the best, most-kept-current list of 
horsey URLS anywhere

Glenda R. Snodgrass

Before you begin, consider ... The Net Effect
http://www.theneteffect.com
(334) 433-0196
Subject: 
      Re: need saddle web sites.
  Date: 
      Thu, 22 Jan 1998 16:26:14 -0800
  From: 
      helen@loc3.tandem.com (harvey_helen)
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


> Hello everyone.
> 
> I'm still collecting lots of information on saddles.  Now I need to
> figure out where the distributors are and if the manufacturers have
> websites.  If you know the url's of any of them, could you email me
> privately.  I've used the search engines to look up either the names or
> saddle and I'm not getting anywhere fast!!!
> 
> I'm looking for:
> 
> SR Enduro
http://horsemans.net/sr-saddleco/ 
Note:  I've got one; my horse is very pleased with it!

> Patriot
I presume you mean the Orthoflex Patriot: http://www.ortho-flex.com/
 
> 
> Wow, alot of people like their Stubbins VSD but they look a bit pricy to
> me.  Some have commented their widest tree is too narrow for an arab, of
> course I have a big wide morab, any other comments on this?
I've got a Stubbin VSD for sale; 31CM tree, if you're interested.
It is too narrow for my mare; haven't tried it on my gelding.

Subject: 
      Re: saddle survey#3 (long)
  Date: 
      Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:35:55 -0700
  From: 
      "Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>
    To: 
      <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>


Kim:

I know that I am late with this info but I just could not resist. My
wife
Arlene has ridden a saddle made by Gary Mc Clintock some years ago (like
20?) She has logged about 15, 000 miles in competition in it (mostly top
tens) and I would venture another 45, 000 in training and conditioning. 

This saddle has never shown any sign of soreing any horses back.
Something
I cannot say for the Orthoflex we thought would replace the old saddle.
It
has had new stirrup leathers put on it and a few dings repaired after
wrecks but it is still going strong and will survive a few more thousand
miles. Gary is located in Southern California and I guess will still
build
endurance saddles if you want one. Does not look very good since it has
seen rain,  snow,  heat, much horse sweat, wrecks , thrown in the back
of
the pickup,  and general abuse over the years.

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

Subject: 
          Re: need saddle web sites.
      Date: 
          Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:21:56 EST
      From: 
          CSimmons99 <CSimmons99@aol.com>
Organization: 
          AOL (http://www.aol.com)
        To: 
          PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


I honestly don't know if the StubbenVSD is an all-purpose model.  I do
know
that the Stubben Siegried is more of a forward flap jump positioned
saddle and
many people are used to riding in it but it is not favorable for
all-purpose
distance riding.  We're all prejudiced to our "favorites" and you're
wise to
get the overall view.  In a traditional English model I would tend to
suggest
you try the "all-purpose/all-purpose with dressage tendency over the
all-
purpose with jump tendency.  

The all-purpose/Jump tendency tends to put your leg in a more forward
placement; consequently your shoulders tend to come forward to balance. 
This
tends to be more fatiguing to the lower back, more work to post and ad
more
weight to the forequarters/wither shoulder area than an all-purpose/all-
purpose with dressage tendency.  

Good Luck.  CS

Subject: 
          Re: need saddle web sites.
      Date: 
          Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:33:11 EST
      From: 
          Phnatasha <Phnatasha@aol.com>
Organization: 
          AOL (http://www.aol.com)
        To: 
          PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM, ridecamp@endurance.net


In a message dated 98-01-23 03:50:56 EST, PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com writes:

<< 'm still collecting lots of information on saddles.  Now I need to
 figure out where the distributors are and if the manufacturers have
 websites.  If you know the url's of any of them, could you email me
 privately.  I've used the search engines to look up either the names or
 saddle and I'm not getting anywhere fast!!!
 
 I'm looking for:
 
 SR Enduro
  >>

I don't believe Steve has a website...  I ride in one of his saddles and
LOVE
it!  Have had it for 3 years... if you'd like any info... let me know... 
Patti 

Date: 
         Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:08:37 EST
     From: 
         rides2far@juno.com (Angela C. McGhee)
      To: 
         PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References: 
         1
>Bighorn

I live a few miles from where they're made.  Have seen them from the
inside out and have done a couple of rides on them.  

the tree is advertised as "full quarter horse bars", but I have brought
the tree home and it actually is O.K. on an averigish Arab (their Arab
saddle tree would fit a Percheron).  The stirrups are too far forward is
the main problem.  They insist on putting 2 1/2 or 3" stirrup leathers
which are very hard to turn, and really won't take up far enough for a
short person without some altering.  The seat is not very comfortable. 
The quality is fine.  I just sold my husband's, but the new owner had it
switched to 2" nylon stirrup leathers, and had them cut down the tops of
the fenders so they could be taken up farther and it helped a lot.

Angie McGhee

Subject: 
         Re: Arabian saddle information
     Date: 
         Fri, 23 Jan 1998 06:53:46 -0700
     From: 
         Beverly Gray <bgray@xmission.com>
      To: 
         PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References: 
         1


Kimberly Price wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
>   Can you suggest to me how to do a custom template to figure out if a
> saddle fits my horse?
> 
>   What is your tryout policy and return policy for fitting a  saddle?  I
> am located in  the SF bay area, but I've heard lots of good things about
> your saddle.
> 
>   If you have any other information to mail me, please do so at:
> Kimberly Price
> 441 Via Hidalgo, #35
> Greenbrae, CA  94904
> 
> thank you in advance!
> Kimberly
**********************************************************
Hi Kimberly;
Thank you for your interest in the Arabian Saddle.  And thank you for
all your work on the saddle survery. I can send you a template to fit
your Mor/Arab (nice cross, I ride Anglo Arabians). If you horses is
different than our standard tree sizes  we can have a custom tree made
in England(not extra chrage but it does take 6 weeks) I want you to try
the saddle and most people keep it for a week to get a good feel. If it
doesn't fit your horse, you can send it right back to me.  It is a
wonderful saddle.
Your template is in the mail.
Happy Trails,
Beverly Gray


Date: 
         Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:47:20 -0600
     From: 
         Roger or Debby Stai <rstai@flash.net>
      To: 
         PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References: 
         1

Same here, Stubben pinches my horse in the shoulders.


Subject: 
      Re: need saddle web sites.
  Date: 
      Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:17:32 -0500
  From: 
      charle@tpc.tulane.edu (Charlene Bartholomae)
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


Kimberly, Here is his e mail address for Frank Baines...

 Baines@vitalo.Com

>
>
>
 ,
/,`\
` | \____\\
 _(      ) \    Charlene Bartholomae
Subject: 
      Re: saddle info
  Date: 
      Fri, 23 Jan 1998 07:50:02 -0700
  From: 
      shiffman@dancris.com
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


Good morning,
There are only two saddle trees...A WIDE OR SMOOTH pommel.The saddle is
$1,595. You add the extras to fit your specific needs and pocketbook. We
sell direct. The saddle is fully custom fit to both you and the horse.
RIDER: We need your thigh, inseam(from crotch to floor without shoes or
boots, and most importantly, the measurements between your butt bones(we
chisel two spots into the tree seat and coat with foam so that when
posting
your reduce shock to the hips,spine and neck).
HORSE: Once we receive your $500 downpayment, we send you your saddle #
and
a flexible curve kit with instruction. We also require a broadside
picture
of the horse, shot on level ground, from about six feet from the horse
and
a picture shot down the horses back from the hips to the shoulders. You
do
this by standing on a small box or stool.
>From the time we receive your downpayment it takes about6-7 weeks to
receive your saddle.
If you have more question, let me know.
Thanks, Steve Shiffman
P.S I will send you a catolog and video, but you can check our web page
WWW.synergistsaddles.coms . Check  "More info" when reviewing.
At 03:02 PM 1/22/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Hello,
>
>I would like more info on your saddles.  What are the price ranges?  Do
>you have a distributor in the San Francisco Bay area?  How do I guess
>which size would fit my horse since I do not have a flexicurve?
>
>If you have any cataloques to mail, please mail to:
>
>Kimberly M. Price
>441 Via Hidalgo, #35
>Greenbrae, CA  94904
>
>thanks!
>
>


Subject: 
          Re: need saddle web sites.
      Date: 
          Fri, 23 Jan 1998 12:03:54 EST
      From: 
          SandyDSA <SandyDSA@aol.com>
Organization: 
          AOL (http://www.aol.com)
        To: 
          PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM


In a message dated 98-01-23 03:22:08 EST, you write:
ALSO call Boyd Zontelli on his - it is wonderfully fitted and comfy AND
LIGHT!
818.889.2818 I THINK or 991.2818. Tell him sandy said to call and tell
him HI
for me.
<< SR Enduro
 
 Stubben  
 
 Bighorn
 
 Australian Stock Saddle Company - call Colin in Malibu directly
(818)889 -
????
 
 PatriotORTHOFLEX
BROWNSADD@EARTHLINK.NET (or com??)
 
, 23 Jan 1998 10:50:05 -0700
  From: 
      Suzanne Hayes <hlm5506@montana.com>
    To: 
      "'PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com'" <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>


Kimberly,

commented on how hard as a rock it is!  Did you use this saddle on the
Tevis? 
[Suzanne Hayes]  Yes, all the years except 1972 when I used a youth
western saddle.

 Do you find it a problem that it is hard at all?
[Suzanne Hayes]  I don't think it is any harder than most other English
saddles.  I use a wool fleece cover for it now (which I love in any
weather!), but years ago I rode it many rides with no cover at all. 
Guess you just get used to it.  If I was to pleasure ride at a slow pace
I may not like actually "sitting" in it for long periods of times.  But
since there is so much rider motion when endurance riding I don't notice
the "hardness". 

/,`\By the way, I wanted to comment on my experiences with Australian
saddles.  They rate right up there with "saddles that I wouldn't take
even if given away"!  My mother had several different ones (all
expensive and authentic) and used them on many different horses.  While
she loved them for herself, over a period of time, they sored every
single horse she used them one!  Many, many people I have talked to have
had the same experiences.

Look closely at the Arabian saddles that Bev Gray carries.  It sounds
like you can get a really wide tree on them and maybe get a used for
less money.

Suzie


Subject: 
      Re: TB Mag aritcle Nov/Dec97
  Date: 
      Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:28:34 -0500
  From: 
      charle@tpc.tulane.edu (Charlene Bartholomae)
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


I have to agree.  I rode in an All Purpose Kieffer for years and had
major
knee problems.
My physical therapist (who rides) told me exactly where it hurt before I
told her once 
she had me get into the position I HAD to ride in to maintain balance,
which
was 
leaning way forward.  In my Endurance saddle, I do not have to lean
anywhere.
I just stand straight up and am most comfy and very well centered and
balanced.  
MUCH less strain on my knees, neck, back, etc.
        I loved my Kieffer for cross country jumping, but NOT for
Endurance.
        Just my .02
        

>Did anyone out there get this magazine?  They skipped mine and the
>Jan/Feb98 refers to a saddle fitting article part 1 I'd really like to
>read.  Maybe someone would be willing to copy and fax/mail it over?  Let
>me know in private please, I sure would appreciate it!
>
>In the TB mag I just received last night (Jan/Feb98) the saddle
>conformation article is very good, but states that the stirrups on an
>english saddle are placed too far forward on the tree, where the most
>strength is, so balance cannot be obtained!?!  I can't believe thats
>true.  Comments?
>
>Thanks so much!
>Kimberly
>
>
>



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