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saddle survey#3 (long)



Subject: 
      saddle ??
  Date: 
      Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:50:26 +0100
  From: 
      Karen Allnutt <allnutt@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


1.  Typically an all purpose allows you to jump, sits you deeper than an
eventing saddle, more shallow than a dressage saddle while an eventing
saddle is designed more for jumping (2 point position) than all purpose
or
dressage.  Remember 2 of the events in eventing involve jumping.

2.  Don't know I use an english all purpose for me endurance work.

3.  I own a Stubben eventing saddle (that's what I used to do when I had
more $$).  I am lucky enough to have 4 saddles (Stubben, Australian
semi-stock, dressage, and all purpose - all nonStubben are Australian
made
saddles purchased when we lived in Australia, the Stubben was purchased
used in the states.  2 saddles are wide trees and 2 are narrow trees). 
I
am looking at buying a Stubben VSD to use for endurance (I have 2 horses
who both wear the same size tack.  Yes I cannot ride them both at the
same
time, but when another person rides the other horse most people feel
more
comfortable in an all purpose than the eventing saddle.

It would be interesting to see what everyone else has to say.

KcA & Rose (running on all this new snow feels wonderful) & Archie (I'll
second that)

                                


ubject: 
      Re: saddle types..more questions
  Date: 
      Tue, 20 Jan 1998 12:47:38 -0800
  From: 
      Jessica Tuteur <jessicat@napanet.net>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


Hey Kimberely,

Wet enough for you? Boy am I sick of this rain.  Well I will venture an
answer to your questions. Just so you know I have 4 saddles, 3 of which
I
use for endurance. Orthoflex Stitchdown (fits 2 horses very well, 1 ok),
sharon saare (fits the one it was made for fairly well, fits 1 other
ok),
Sport saddle (fits a horse with a back deformity, I do not like it on
any of
my other horses) and a Jessica dressage saddle (use it only for ring
work).


>1.. What is the difference between an all-purpose seat and an eventing
>seat?

I would think eventing seat is more for jumping, stadium and cross
country
while all-purpose is exactly that, for all events (as in 3 day eventing)

>
>2.. On the endurance types...do they lean more toward the "english" tree
>or more toward the "western" tree and twist?  Can you do arena work with
>the endurance models?

Western. I know lots of people who take lessons in their endurance
saddles.
It has to do with if you are comfortable, etc. If it fits the horse it
does
not matter at low levels what type of saddle you use.

>
>3..Any other stubben owners out there I'd like to hear from you too.

I have owned Stubbens and other english saddles. Don't reccomend them
for
endurance because the panels of the tre are narrow and focus too much
weight
in one area.


Hope this helps

Jessica
*****************************************************************
Jessica Tuteur, Ride Manager Wine Country 50 6/6/98
J-M Ranch & HorseBums
1393 Green Valley Rd.
Napa, CA 94558
(707) 258-1937 tel & fax

Subject: 
      Re: saddle types..more questions
  Date: 
      Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:55:47 -0500
  From: 
      "Helga Loncosky" <hblmh@ptd.net>
    To: 
      <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>


I use two different saddles, mostly due to using 2 different horses.

On my mare, I use a A-Betta Cordura Softee Endurance saddle, absolutely
love this saddle, the only thing I would change is move the fenders a
hare
back. Excellent on my good withered mare.

On my gelding, I use a Wintec Dressage Sport. Very comfortable, and both
are easy to clean and very light. I'm sold on both of them! My gelding
is
wider, so this saddle fits him nicely.


Helga Loncosky
hblmh@ptd.net
Beacon Morgan Horses, Ltd.
***********************************************************
"There is something about the outside of a horse
that is good for the inside of a man."
-----------Winston Churchill

Subject: 
      Re: saddle types..more questions
  Date: 
      Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:08:43 -0800
  From: 
      "Kathy Myers" <kathy@nvolve.com>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


Hi Kimberly!

I have a Stubben Survival saddle for Magnum.  It's very
much like an english all purpose, but it has much bigger
blocks and heavy duty hardware.  It fits the ol' TB just
great.  I did a flat schooling show in it, but the bars
are too far forward to keep my leg in the right position.

SO, seeing as we have this new carreer, I got him a
dressage saddle on sale ($299!!!) that fits him good.
The next schooling show (and lessons) my leg was in
a much better position.  We won 3 classes!  I think that's
worth $299 + new leathers, girth, pads, etc. don't you?  :)

Anyways, I met with the Stubben rep in 1996 at the Christenson's
sale.  The Survival is sorta being replaced with a new
"Stubben Endurance Model" (whose name escapes me) that is
much more like a dressage saddle with shorter flaps.  I'm
really impressed with them.  I got the Survival new, but if
I had to do it over again, I would get the newer Stubben
endurance dressagey model.

I'd seriously consider riding atleast a 30 in the dressage
saddle except that I'm more concerned about Magnum's back
than my legs and the Stubben is a better saddle than the
St. Croix.  We did TONS of miles in the Stubben and he didn't
have any trouble at all with it.  You know Stacey Berger
with Porter (She posts now and again)?  She rides in a
dressage saddle.  Kathy Ruiz does too I think.  And my
friend Gabrielle.  But first and formost the saddle needs
to fit the horse's back and not move around.

I also rode quite a few miles in a Crates western saddle
(because it fit the Arab/QH cross) and the stirrups hung
better than the Stubben survival!  I rode it with my
Ariats and Ariat 1/2 Chaps...  what the hell.

:) - kat myers
in San Mateo (No.) Ca. with Magnum the TB ex-racer



Subject: 
      Re: saddle types..more questions
  Date: 
      Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:16:23 -0600
  From: 
      Chris Paus <paus@micoks.net>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com, ridecamp@endurance.net


Stubbens are wonderful saddles, HOWEVER, their widest tree is not wide
enough for many Arabs.

chris paus & star (who has done the saddle fitting odyssey)

Subject: 
         Re: saddle types..more questions
     Date: 
         Tue, 20 Jan 1998 19:15:28 -0600
     From: 
         Roger or Debby Stai <rstai@flash.net>
      To: 
         PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com

I've always ridden in an english saddle, mainly because my daughter took
english lessons for a long time so I got into it too. My horse is very
peculiar to fit to a saddle, no withers, these thick shoulders on both
sides of where the withers are supposed to be, and a round, wide back.
He takes a wide english saddle, no forward tree because it pinches his
shoulders. I've tried lately fitting him to endurance saddles but to no
avail as they all fall off to the sides, no matter how tight you do the
cinch. Tried different pads and girths and it still does it. So back to
the wide english all-purpose saddle we go. Have you had others with this
problem, Thanks, Debby

Subject: 
         Re: saddle types..more questions
     Date: 
         Wed, 21 Jan 1998 01:03:17 -0500
     From: 
         valsharpe@juno.com (Valerie K Sharpe)
      To: 
         PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com
References: 
         1


In response to your question regarding the types of saddles people use,
I
have an Australian Stock Saddle that I just love!  I bought it in Malibu
Cal. at the Australian Stock Saddle Company.  I've had it for 3 years
now
and it is not only the most comfortable saddle I've ever ridden in but I
have also come to trust it in sticky situations.  I am curious as to if
anyone has mention using the orthaflex saddles?  I have one that I
bought
used and it has sored up all of my horse's backs in exactly the same
spot.  My husband has watched the saddle from behind me when we are out
on trail rides and he thinks that the back of the saddle moves just
enough in a circular motion that it sores the horses.  The reason I ask
is that I have heard that orthaflex has come out with a #2 saddle that
they have sworn to me won't sore the horse's back, but they won't stand
behind their saddles and except full refund returns if the saddle does
sore the horse's back.

Subject: 
      Re: saddle types..more questions
  Date: 
      Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:03:14 -0800 (PST)
  From: 
      karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


Kimberly

I ride an SR Enduro, they are pricey but hold resale value really well,
the
greatest point of course is that they can be refit for a new horse.  The
quality of leather and craftmanship is the best I've ever seen in an
endurance saddle and they are so well balanced and easy to ride.

The problem with the 'forward' type seats in english saddles is that you
are
not balanced, it's hard to get your feet under you where they should be.

>Questions:

>2.. Can you do arena work with the endurance models?
        very definately can with mine, I do a lot of (advanced) dressage
and
am very balanced with a lot of close contact

Karen Clanin
kclanin@fix.net


Subject: 
      Re: saddle types..more questions
  Date: 
      Wed, 21 Jan 1998 08:30:50 -0800 (PST)
  From: 
      karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com

                A couple of years ago at a ride I pulled at the vet
check
because I'd been stunt/bitten by some unknown wasp type of thing, really
was
not feeling well at all.  I wanted nothing more than to pull my saddle
off
(out in a clearing where we could see the vet check but had to reach it
by a
very round about way) and turn my horse loose, lay down and die right
there.
                Daughter came in just after us with another saddle
problem
and was going to pull, I suggested that we try my SR Enduro on her horse
to
see if it were close enough of a fit for her to finish.  Thought I would
never get my saddle back when we all got to camp....she loved it, said:
"Gee, Mom, I could post with no effort at all, stand in the stirrups and
not
have to work at it, can I have it?"  Well, she just bought a used SR
Enduro
so now has her very own !!!!!

                Good luck, I hate the saddle hunt part almost worse than
the
horse hunt!

Karen        


Subject: 
          Re: saddle types..more questions
      Date: 
          Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:13:56 EST
      From: 
          RICMARC <RICMARC@aol.com>
Organization: 
          AOL (http://www.aol.com)
        To: 
          PLOUGH1@IX.NETCOM.COM


With a dressage saddle you are basically straight
up and down. It makes it easier to stand up to ride.
with knee rolls you have something to lean into and
ride more forward. If you have a horse with a high
head carriage you don't want to lean to far forward.
I've had a lot of ears in my mouth doing that.

Marcy

Subject: 
          Re: saddle types..more questions
      Date: 
          Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:39:56 EST
      From: 
          RudeCoInc <RudeCoInc@aol.com>
Organization: 
          AOL (http://www.aol.com)
        To: 
          PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


Kimberly, put me on your saddle spreadsheet list to email. I searched
and
search 
and got an American Endurance for my Paso because it fit and I'm not
comfortable in English after hours in the woods. I strictly trail ride.
However, I lost my seat in that 
saddle when my horse stopped on the dime I was seeking and am now
sitting for
months repairing the foot that snapped off my leg when I jumped off
rather
than 
sail over a shoulder. The seat is slick leather and the fenders slick
and my
right foot 
flew out of the stirrup but the left didn't keep up to speed. Am now
looking
for 
velcro seats!

Linda  at  RudeCoInc@aol.com

Subject: 
      Re: saddle types..more questions
  Date: 
      Wed, 21 Jan 1998 14:20:07 -0800 (PST)
  From: 
      karen Clanin <kclanin@fix.net>
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


Kimberly

I forgot to mention that at one point when I was figuring I would be
riding
2 horses and would want a saddle for each I bought a Courbette Kurfurst,
this is Courbett's endurance model and it's very much like a dressage
saddle
so fairly well balanced.  I liked it a LOT and when the first one I
tried
wasn't wide enough for the horse I wanted it for my daughter, a western
saddle snob like me -- to many days in the western plesure classes --
wanted
to ride with us but the saddle she was using broken -- yes, same one
that
broke and got her into my SR Enduro -- i told her she could use this
Kurfurst if she wanted to try it.  Well, she's always hated English but
wanted to ride bad enough that she tried it and guess what, she bought
it!!!
She's been riding it for over 2 years and loves the saddle however when
she
got the chance to get an SR she did it.  Anyway, back to my story, when
the
two horses bit didn't pan out I sold the Kurfurst because deep down I
prefer
a western style saddle.

Robyns Kurfurst is for sale if that becomes a saddle you want to
consider,
it's still in great condition and priced very fairly.


Karen Clanin
kclanin@fix.net


ubject: 
      saddles
  Date: 
      Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:53:27 EST
  From: 
      esppatty@juno.com (Patty Lambert)
    To: 
      plough1@ix.netcom.com


Hi, Kimberly,

You asked about saddles on endurance rides. I've been riding in a County
dressage saddle for many years & have done 3 Old Dominion hundreds in
it,so I guess you could say I'm satisfied with it (but had to have it
drastically altered to fit my horse's very narrow, high withers.) As far
as carrying stuff, I had d-rings put on both sides (would have done 2
per
side if I'd known then what I know now) and use pommel bags (actually
shoulder bags) that attach to the front d's, hang the sponge & ezboot
off
the back d's & wear a fanny pack as well as a vest with lots of pockets.
First of all, horse & rider have to both be comfortable - if one or the
other is uncomfortable it will affect your performance. Worry about
attaching things after you've solved the first problem. You can always
get hardware put on if it isn't included. Good luck!

Patty 
esppatty@juno.com

Subject: 
      saddles
  Date: 
      Wed, 21 Jan 98 08:28:16 PST
  From: 
      llayman@neorx.com
    To: 
      PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com


     I ride in a dressage style saddle almost exclusively.  
     
     I use my wintec dressage with a nice thick sheepskin cover for the 
     Endurance Rides and for training rides.  It's an older model that
they 
     don't make anymore.  I like it because it has moulded to my horse's 
     back. I also use a really expensive leather Moritz for arena work.
I 
     just don't want to use my endurance saddle more than necessary and
I 
     will not use my expensive Moritz on a Ride.
     
     I like the secure seat the saddle provides, and regardless of what
I 
     do (trail work/arena work) I only have to work on one way of
riding. I 
     use the dressage training to put my horse in the correct frame to 
     reduce his fatigue over the long run.  I couldn't do that
effectively 
     if I switched saddle types all of the time.
     
     So there you have it.  An addiction to the dressage saddle. 
     
     Have a great day!
     
     Linda-Cathrine
     LLayman@NeoRx.com


les
  Date: 
      Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:02:00 -0800
  From: 
      "Blankenship, Ann" <ABlankenship@commerce.ca.gov>
    To: 
      "'Kimberly Price'" <PLOUGH1@ix.netcom.com>


I ride in a Stubben VSD and my husband rides in a County dressage.
Stuben seigfreid will KILL your back.  It puts you too far forward.  The
VSD is like a seigfreid but the leg is more of a dressage leg,
underneath you.  Very comfortable.

****that brings up up thru Wed the 21st**** more shall follow.
(I told you'all it was a lot!)  :-)



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