Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted

["Robert J. Morris" <bobmorris@rmci.net>]

Steph & Ride Camp:

Long before the Trilby/Les episodes (my apologies to you both, but this is
how it is recognized) I find in the 1980 Ride Managers Handbook (Jim
Remillard was AERC Pres.) the following:

A prescribed maximum time is usually set for completion of the ride.
Typically this is 12 hours for 50 miles, and 24 hours for 100 miles

This was an offshoot of the Tevis "100 miles in one day". My records do not
extend back beyond that as far as Ride Managers handbooks are concerned.

I have always been in favor of the 12 hour rule and continue to do so. (as
you can see from my recent posts.)To me it is disconcerting to have
persons,  with inadequately prepared horses and/ or not properly prepared
themselves, who are not willing to be prepared to COMPETE, be given the
same recognition as those persons making the effort.

If at my age (and that also includes Arlene and many others of like
longevity such as Bill Ansenberger, Julie Suhr and Bob Suhr and many
others), if we ask no quarter, no special conditions, then let the younger
set, those wanting special  considerations show why they REALLY need them.

To finish is to win and winning is not a given in life

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

----------
> From: Steph Teeter <step@fsr.com>
> To: 'bobmorris@rmci.net'; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject: RE: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 11:23 AM
> 
> Bob - I have a couple questions for you:
> 
> As Joe Long pointed out, there was originally NO time limit
> imposed by AERC. The rule came about because of individuals
> trying to ride a billion miles in one season, and the only way 
> they could do it was if they walked the entire course. So they
> did, and it kept ride managers up all night and drove everyone
> crazy.
> 
> So, were you in favor of the new time limit rule when it was
> proposed? I assume you were competing at the time. And
> if so, why was 12 hours the magic number? This is still a
> pretty slow pace for a *real* endurance ride.... and when the
> rule was originally put in place, did it address the question
> of variation in hold times, or did that come about later?
> 
> st
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Robert J. Morris [SMTP:bobmorris@rmci.net]
> Sent:	Monday, January 12, 1998 9:00 PM
> To:	Linda Van Ceylon; ridecamp@endurance.net
> Subject:	Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> 
> Linda and Ride Camp:
> 
> I very definitely disagree with Ramey. He fails to state the entire rule
> 61.1 This rule pertains only to those finishing in the TOP TEN, not those
> finishing in over 12 hours in a fifty!!!  Ramey , you should know
better!!
> 
> <<The problem I have with the overtime situation is the diversity of 
> courses we have>> 
> 
> This is the name of the game, meet the challenge and endure. No one said
> the bear in the cave you enter would be in a good mood!!!
> 
> <<Then  if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets
really
> bad,  etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the

> rule.>>
> 
> This is ENDURANCE RIDING, not a therapy session to make every one feel
> good. Adversity builds character and personal strength. These excuses,
and
> they are really excuses, would be a crutch for those with out strength,
> with out the ability to take things as they occur. If I do not finish a
> ride it is MY fault, not the fact there was not enough time, the trail
was
> mismarked, the weather was bad etc. IT WAS MY FAULT AND I DO NOT NEED AN
> EXCUSE!!!
> 
> <<> I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more
> discussion.>>>
> 
> Yes, Yes, something needs to change. Most particularly ATTITUDE!!  This
is
> ENDURANCE RIDING not a Sunday picnic in the park. If you want to have
every
> thing easy and sure then go ride on a merry-go-round (even then the thing
> may break down). Why can we not live with the thought endurance riding
was
> not intended to be easy??? It once was "to finish is to win" Now it is
"if
> I don't finish I will complain".
> 
> Guess being a Marine spoiled me.
> 
> Bob Morris
> Morris Endurance Enterprises
> Boise, ID
> 
> ----------
> > From: Linda Van Ceylon <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> > To: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: Re: AERC completion time rule - feedback wanted
> > Date: Monday, January 12, 1998 8:21 PM
> > 
> > Hi Steph,
> > 
> > I think Ramey's argument is sound.  We already have a rule to deal with

> > the overtime situation.  It sounds as though Bob would disagree, but,
to 
> > me, it seems clear.  
> > 
> > .  And, it seems in some cases, there is a great 
> > variation of the number of feet in a mile.  Here in our area, there are

> > 5,280 ft. per mile.  That is why a winning time for a flat 50 is over 4

> > hours and a tougher 50 takes over 7 hour to win.  Granted, sometimes 
> > there are new courses or courses change and the mileages are 
> > miscalculated.  But, for the most part, we try to keep our mileage 
> > accurate.
> > 
> > On a really tough course, with two vet holds, it is really easy to be 
> > pushing the 12 hour envelope.  The suggestions of other ride managers, 
> > and many riders, seems to be "just make the course shorter, no one will

> > ever complain about a course that is too short".  Well, I just don't 
> > think this is right.
> > 
> > In my mind, the best way to handle the situation would be to change the

> > rule to *exclude* the hold times and count the riding time only.  Then 
> > if you have a tough 50, with two holds, or the weather gets really bad,

> > etc...., you have more time to finish without an *exception* to the 
> > rule.
> > 
> > We have particular problems with LD rides.  Because, when you include 
> > the hold times in the total 6 hours they get, this magnifies the speed 
> > they are actually doing on the course compared to the longer distances.
 
> > Let's say you have 2 vc's in your 25-miler and your 50-miler.  At 1.5 
> > hours total hold time, the 50's must average 4.76 mph but, the 25's
must 
> > average 5.55 mph. while they are on the trail.  The 25's have to "go 
> > like h..." to meet the cut-off.  This is not in keeping with my 
> > philosophy of the purpose of LD.
> > 
> > I think something needs to change & I'm open to lots more discussion.
> > 
> > Lindavan, Buhni, Sunny, Fiddler, Rabbit & Rain Maker
> > Equine Athletes <equine_athletes@hotmail.com>
> > 2921 Moore Lane, Fort Collins, CO  80526
> > 970-226-1099
> > 
> > 
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> 
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