I don’t think AERC would need to actually suspend membership,
but make no mistake, they DO hold the carrot stick to prevent serial offenders.
Lord knows anyone can make a mistake in
their checking balance, or themselves become a victim of a hot check that
causes them to overdraw their account.These cases are handled quickly, quietly and with total understanding on
my part.
I'm talking about people so wrapped up in their goals that
they are willing to steal from one ride to get to another.People who write checks KNOWING they aren't
any good.Even if the original problem
was unintentional, continuing to enter more rides and saying you "can't
afford" to pay the old debt is a crime. (But it can be a long, time consuming process
to follow through.) When AERC says they
can't take away the points from unpaid ride entries they REWARD this
behavior.I'm not asking AERC to be a
collection agency or law enforcement, just stop giving out THEIR rewards to
cheats and thieves. Just saying okay, you don't have to let them enter your
ride next year is too little, too late.
I was sitting in on the board meeting years ago when several
ride managers made their case against a rider who had stuck them all with
unpaid ride entries. I was surprised that they even had to do that, it shouldn't have had to be a "personal agenda". AERC should back ride management against thieves, period.
As far as I'm concerned, when a rider's check is returned,
they were not "properly entered at the start of the ride" and AERC
should be able to pull their completion.The only effect to the current rules might be extending the time frame
to amend the results, because it can take several weeks to find out a check isn’t
good.This option should be extended, through
the ride manager, to treatment vets, farriers, campgrounds, and any vendors
providing services AT a ride. Typically, if a check bounces for one, it will
bounce for all at the same ride. The ride manager should be able to stipulate
that all bills incurred at their ride be paid for the points and miles to count
and ride time be published.
I have been selling at rides as Stablegear Tack for 7 years,
and as Custom Iron Workers long before that.I’ve only gotten ONE intentional bad check, so it’s not been a huge
problem for me.There were more for ride
entries in the years as ride manager, probably one per ride, but they were all eventually
made good. I'm saddened to hear that the
problem is growing everywhere.I think
ride managers are the most common victims at rides. AERC can go a long way to
nip it in the bud by withholding credit for stolen rides.Those AERC results are the only leverage ride
management holds.If the rider feels
they had a valid reason not to pay, or they did repay in a timely manner, they
can always file a protest and have their points re-instated. Honest folks need
to stop enabling thieves so they can’t keep going from ride to ride. In the long run, everybody is going to pay
these bills.
Nancy
Mitts
Stablegear Tack
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2008 21:40:51 -0800 From: mbstover@xxxxxxxxx To: mmaul@xxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [RC] [RC] Ride managers, riders, and AERC CC: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
I did not find that the riders are sanctioned. There is a rider who started the Cooley Ranch Ride and then came back and raised hell because the "ride manager told her it would not rain." Anyway, she went home and stopped payment on her check. She is still riding rides and no one seems to want to do anything. However, I am ride secretary for a lot of rides and I have a really long memory about stuff like that so eventually she will come to one of my rides and not be allowed to ride until she pays her debt to the Cooley Ranch Ride.....mb
In response to:"This seems to be a one way street here and not to the benefit of the riders. If a rider fails to pay, check bounces,
etc., there is a very clear path with precedent where the AERC will sanction the rider for such non payment. On the other hand what you are saying is that even if the RM has stated in writing a given refund policy but does not live up to the contract then it's
the rider's tough luck? The AERC is an organization of riders."
I'm not sure what you mean if a rider fails to pay - there is a clear route...
Other than once maintaining a short list of riders who have
bounced a number of checks with different ride managers - AERC doesn't normally do anything concerning a rider - ride manager or vendor interaction like this. The only "clear path" I remember is that one rider was sanctioned for multiple bounced checks to a
number of ride managers. And that only happened after a member of the BoD made it their personal agenda. So I don't really call that a "clear path".
What AERC does do is that if the ride manager doesn't pay the ride
fees - the results don't get published. SERA had an example of this a few years ago. And the ride manager finds it difficult to get sanctioning in the future. In past history - we have had at least one very well known ride manager who had to pay the likely
ride fees in advance to get sanctioning.
We don't have any requirements on how a ride manager handles refunds and other costs at a ride. I've had calls where vendors wanted AERC to suspend a rider for non-payment to them, vets for
non-payment of treatment costs by riders, and not paying farrier bills at a ride to name a few.
I think past AERC BoDs have tried to keep things as simple as possible in requirements of ride managers. For example getting
involved in whether the rider met the conditions for a refund is not something that I'd want to see AERC involved in even if there was a refund policy.
I'll say this personally that I think all ride managers should
have a published refund policy in their flyer. I see a lot of flyers when I put them on the AERC ride calendar for managers and of the last 5 - one had "NO SHOW: NO REFUND" and the other four had no refund policy.
I'm not even really sure what No show - No refund" means either. Does it mean if you call ahead and say you are not coming - it means you get a refund? Or you come to the ride and fail the vet in - then get a refund? I'm am sure that if you don't call and
don't show - there's no refund.
I think it's worth considering. Ask Susan or Joe to bring it up at the convention. I do think given the individualistic group of people that we have running rides - more restrictions would be
resisted even if well intentioned.
