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Re: [RC] lupine - heidiI have a question for any of you vets/nutritionists I know that fiddleneck is poisonous and heard that the brain damage is irreversible--- and that most times horses will avoid it--- but-- is it like the lupine that Heidi is talking about? Is it poisonous at only certain stages of growth? and is it the flower or stem that is poisonous and at what stage? I ask only because I have been killing myself to find every little fiddleneck in pasture and just when I think I have pulled all of them up by their little necks, some babies spring up out of nowhere. UGH!!! Bette, who does not want her horses to get brain damage First of all, fiddleneck (Amsinckia) is a liver toxin, not a neurological toxin. It causes irreversible liver damage, and it is the liver damage which in turn causes neurological symptoms in horses. (Classic amsinckia poisoning is known as "walking disease" in horses--the affected animals will walk in a straight line like they are in a trance, not stopping for much of anything.) The seeds are the part of the plant with the highest toxicity. With regard to lupine, it is the stage of pregnancy in the cow that is important with regard to birth defects, moreso than the stage of growth of the plant. The seed pods may be more toxic than the rest of the plant, but the main thing is to make sure the cows are past 3-4 weeks or so of gestation before they graze where they might ingest lupine. The toxic principle in lupine is a wide variety of alkaloids. Cases of overt poisoning in cattle and horses are rare, but are quite common in sheep. The seeds are much more toxic than the rest of the plant, but the whole plant does contain the alkaloids. They are apparently excreted fairly quickly, as a dose that can be fatal if eaten rapidly all at once can be consumed over the course of a 24-hour period without any particular problems. The main problem I've seen is the birth defects in cattle. Heidi ============================================================ Of course things aren't perfect, perfect doesn't exist on this earth. Doesn't mean we won't go on trying to get better at what we do. Besides, if everything was perfect today, what would you do tomorrow? Slamming each other doesn't get anything done. ~ Dot Wiggins ridecamp.net information: http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/ ============================================================
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