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Hi Heidi ,
       It is interesting that we are divided on as 'simple 'an issue as EL 
on a ride .Make one wonder where the absolute truth is .But let us reexamine 
the facts in an average 160 km ride :
1.Water loss ....average 30 to 40 litres,may be more depending on the heat 
of the day,but not really much more if the humidity is high as well which 
put a cap on the sweating mechanism { which also put a cap on the horse 
ability to go at speed on a hot and humid day ,which is another story and 
issue }
2.An average loss of around 300 to 400 grams of salt ,sodium chloride {0.3 
to 0.4 kg!} ,45 to 50 grams of potassium loss and a smaller amount of 
magnesium etc etc .
3.The max one can ever get to replacing sodium chloride loss in those 
commercially produced EL gel packs{ 50 ml syringe} is probably less than 
2000 mg or 2 gram if I recall correctly .Even if we were to correct only a 
quarter of the deficit ,we would need 40 shots of those big ampoules!!!!40 
ampoules in  a horse with varying degree of dehydration may probably do more 
harm than good .Majority usually dispense with 4 ampoules and if you are 
Leonard Liesens ,outside the confine of his CDQ in a foreign land we are 
probably looking at 2 or as he put it ,only one ampoule at the start as a 
bad recurring habit .
4.And finally we have the French and the Belgium teams doing so very well at 
top level FEI competitions with a no EL' policy .Never mind the French ,one 
can feel at any one ride that it is close to a 'national' religion . The 
Belgium ,if I get my facts right has only less than 400 registered riders 
and horses and there are doing so well !I am sure EL is just a minor part of 
their story but they must be in total in the right flight path .

 Now what would I do on a ride on a hot humid day in Kuala Lumpur ? The 
next time I feel compelled to syringe down a whole load of nasty ,sharp on 
the gastric mucosae EL down my horse's throat I would think of the French 
and Leonard .May be go more slow on the EL .Concentrate on preempting the 
more dreaded dehydration issue perhaps .

Nik



> From: heidi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: Leonard.Liesens@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> CC: drnikisahak@xxxxxxxxxxx, ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: [RC]   RC RC:Thanks Leonard
> Date: Tue, 09 Jan 2007 08:50:05 -0700
>
> Obviously I have no experience in Malaysia, either, but to add to
> what Leonard has said here...
>
> One of our winningest riders here who normally uses zero
> electrolytes has a "hot and humid" formula that works for her--and like
> Leonard's suggestion, it is not high in raw electrolytes.  She does
> a mixture of about 25% e-lytes and 75% yogurt, and then gives something
> like 2-3 ounces of that mixture ONCE at the beginning of the ride, and
> then no more.
>
> One of the very serious repercussions with overuse of electrolytes
> is that critters (not just horses, but humans, etc.) will "third-space"
> fluids--in other words, begin to pull fluid back into the gut to bring
> the concentration of the e-lytes there back to normal when they can't
> transport the e-lytes across the gut wall fast enough or when the
> concentration is already high in the fluids in the bloodstream and the
> cells due to dehydration.  This even more rapidly dehydrates the
> critter.  I keep thinking about Bev Gray's horse in Dubai having
> seizures on the overly aggressive e-lyte doses that were more or less
> forced on the horses by the leadership of the squad that year...
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
>
>
> With El, I just don't know what would be the best in
> Malaysia. Just guessing and giving an answer would be ridiculous. You
> guys there should try to launch some tests.
>
> Example : weighting
> horses before and after events (80 or 120K)
> trying a few without EL
> and the others with El (but please calculate the total amount
> administered otherwise simply saying that you give EL make no sense if
> the horse receives just lets say 3 doses of P&W for the whole
> race).
> trying isotonic EL (in the drinking water)
> callculating
> the quantity drank by the horse (not that difficult, counting the
> number of movments of the (sorry forgot the english name), but you
> understand what I mean.
>
> I can just tell that our horse at the
> Terengganu rides didn't receive very much of EL, not the huge amounts
> that I sometimes see administered in the US. They got the Foran Refuel
> that I think (I have to check) is very low in terms of raw
> EL.

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