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[RC] response to Heidi - Ridecamp GuestPlease Reply to: Kimberly Price kprice@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx or ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ========================================== Heidi, I use my spammer email because I don't want my personal email to be flamed by people like you. enough said on that. Keep it public, maybe you will be civilized. I've relayed to you what biologists have relayed to me. So there is binge killing of elk; are you saying God made a mistake when he made the wolf, that perhaps he didn't know what he was doing. Perhaps HE thinks if 19 elks get slaughtered at once then the NATURAL order says the population needs to be reduced. Think of the whole picture, Heidi, not just the world of the cattleman... I don't believe in my post anywhere that I said animals are incapable of having fun. Your statement is an example of how people perceive things differently, geared toward their own arguement most likely. I thought I wrote about predator drive. I'm sure they take pleasure in it too, do you take pleasure in eating a good steak? We allow them to capture so many animals by putting them in enclosed pastures all together where they cannot disperse. Who said they didn't have fun while they were doing it and so what? The wolves are being REINTRODUCED to areas they were wiped out of by man and poisons. All because other predators have moved in doesn't mean they don't belong in these original places. There are very few wild places left in the lower 48 that can sustain wolves but hey, feedlots can support cattle! I also know plenty of hunters who go after elk every year, they pay big bucks to hunt the big bucks and the big racks so bullsh*t otherwise. I also have family that go after vension for eating, these are the 1-2 year olds, button bucks are the most tender. Are you telling me your people don't get off on big racks and would go after a big bull because of the meat? Then they don't know what they are missing! Oh, most of the big racks become hamburger mixed with a fatty meat cause it is to tough and strong to eat otherwise. See paragraph one about Gods plans and the natural order of things including overpopulation for a reply to the healthy slaughter of young elk by wolves. BTW, the order includes a natural increase of prey animals nad predators as well as decrease of both, they are tied together at the hip. Perhaps open your mind and read about such things, you will be surprised. And PLE-ZZZE, cattle are hoofed locusts! Next time you go out look at the riparian habitat in the area, you know, the streams where cattle stand in the water all day and shit in it, destroying the habitat for the rest of the creatures. We have a mountain here that is Open Space but came with a price, the original dairy owner keeps his herd on it. Forget wildflowers, there aren't any, and all water has to be wired off or it will be destroyed by the cattle. Think buffalo, which roam and dispurse native grasses, not cattle. Again, they belong in feedlots, not our wild public places and darn it, we should not be subsidizing the ranchers for the use of OUR land. Take a trip to Alaska and see what a truely wild place looks like and you will not believe the difference. I usually stay out of this but unfortunately, I'm a bit bored and a bit disgusted in reading all of these one sided posts. Kimberly I'd like to throw one bit of somewhat little known research is out there, that wolves do indeed kill many sheep or lambs at once as the prey are enclosed by fences. In the real world the prey can disperse and get away, the predator drive is satisfied when one animal is brought down, Please tell that to the elk that are wantonly slaughtered by wolves. They are not in pens, they are not under man's control--they ARE in what you call the "real world." So far the biggest binge I've heard reported is 19 head, but the binge killing of half a dozen or more such as the one that Bob Morris witnessed are commonplace. So no, it isn't for 'fun' although some is to teach youngsters how to hunt. Are you saying that animals are incapable of having fun? Another poster got it right--in order for them to be successful at what they do, they HAVE to be good at it--and deriving some form of "enjoyment" out of their prowess is as natural as breathing. They have fun killing the same way that horses have fun racing across the pasture just for the heck of it. Also, research shows if you take out the predators then another will take its place, maybe one not as well behaved as the first. Why are so many missing the point here? The wolves were ARTIFICIALLY introduced into areas that ALREADY had predators--cougars, coyotes, etc. This isn't about some "right wing anti-predator" campaign--this is about foisting a predator on an area where IT DOES NOT BELONG IN THE FIRST PLACE! there are no more predators then the prey that MAN likes to hunt will be diseased as man only weeds out the young tender strong meat, not the old and sickly meat like natural predators do, and once again the balance is screwed up. To that, I have to ask you if you have ever tried to actually EAT an old trophy bull elk--those are the ones that MAN goes after, NOT the nice prime cows that are good to eat. Furthermore, please explain to the healthy cow elk and half-grown calves that were not sickly, were not starved, were not weak, and in fact were in the prime of life that have fallen victim to the wolf binge kills that wolves "only" weed out the herd. Come LOOK, and see for yourself! It is the right wing anti-predator thinking which endangered the wolf The wolf IS NOT and has NEVER been "endangered"--except as a political ploy in the minds of a bunch of "left-wing anti-public-land use thinking" liberals, since you want to put labels on things. Sorry, but I believe in feedlots for our cattle and wild places our predators can still populate. Its time we recognize the value of this and quit destroying the earth God gave us. Puh-LEEZE. The cattlemen have done more to IMPROVE natural habitat than the politicians can even begin to. Furthermore, in feedlots cattle eat feeds that can also be eaten by hungry humans, whereas when they are out on forage, they convert roughages unuseable by hungry humans into proteins that ARE useful to hungry humans. A cow out in a large area is a tolerable thing--10,000 cows in a feedlot is a mess. And as Cindy said, PLEASE come ride with us in the areas that we ranchers maintain--and please point out just WHERE we are "destroying" it. The most beautiful wildlife habitat here and in the other areas where I've lived is in the areas where there has been either grazing and/or logging. Heidi ===========================================================By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest. ~ Confucius ridecamp.net information: http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/ ===========================================================
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