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RE: [RC] [RC] How should a horse back? - Laurie Durgin

Of course he resists the bit, his name is Rascal!!!!I didn't start him, though he was ground driven.I hve ridden him for 5 years now, but truthfully it was green on green in the beginning, till we learned to ride.He is very good on the leg and verrrry forward. That is the problem , he was always difficult to stop, rate, or stand.Napolean want to be.
So since we are rehabbing ,I am working on 'fixing' stuff that needs fixing.(actually I started before the EPM, and could rate him with half-halts and sheer stubborness.
But we are back in the ring, I am a better rider now (he realises the orginal drop shoulder and spin won't work,and he never got to do it enough to make it a habit) and have my 50 million training books.
Then I remembered , of course he can back, when we first started trailriding, if he got scared and stopped and someone tried to force him, he'd get light and back quite well. I learned enough at that time (though hubby didn't and he ended up on the ground), not to force him when he is scared.(we are now to the point where he will hesitate,and i just give him a 'slight ' squeeze and say ,'it's just a rock" and he is relieved and says "ok, just checking to see it you saw it."
Therefore it is resistance.?>sigh<I did add carrots to the deal one or two days.He did it real easily.(**^$$#@!!@3*^ maniupulating monster!!!!)
So we are working on transitions,walk , stop, walk,stop, walk,stop. . . then adding trot. We are using one rein stop via JLyons.But I have to get my signals consistant for a back.I use voice and body cues., but think I amy be confusing him, (well I am confused so he must be.)Sometimes I get it , but if I shift my weight wrong, he won't , rein cues don''t seem to matter ,it is in the weight shift somehow and squeeze with my legs waaaaay behind the girth, so much so as to be off balance, not a good way to cue.
He is actually getting the stop quicker,taking a few steps instead of half the ring.(mind you I started with the myler low port, but put a french link on yesterday to get him to work off less. I could use the s hack and he did stop quicker with it, but I want him to learn the cues no matter what is in his mouth or not.).
As to the confusion about the diagnoal pairs, I will have to find which book it was and write a note to them!!! (Honey does move both legs back, but that is on the ground.).



From: "k s swigart" <katswig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   How should a horse back?
Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 06:46:09 -0700

Laurie Durgin said:

> Now isn't a horse (according to my 'training books'), supposed to
> backup with both legs on the same side at the same time?(sort of
> like reverse pacing?) I have read and heard that.

And Heidi Smith said:

> Backing is usually a 4-beat "gait" like a walk--and whether you
> called it a "diagonal" or a "lateral" would depend on which leg
> you named first.

According to the USEF Dressage Rule Book:

"Article 1906. The Rein Back
"1. The rein back is an equilateral, retrograde movement in which the
feet are raised and set down by diagonal pairs....."

And according to Alois Podhajsky (the definitive authoritity on
classical horsemanship) in _The Complete Training of Horse and Rider_ :
"The Rein-back. In the rein-back the legs do not move in the sequence of
the walk, but in that of the trot; for instance, the right diagonal
followed by the left diagonal so that only two hoof beat can be heard.
The rein back is correct if the horse lifts his diagonal feet off the
ground and puts them down again together; he shouldnot creep back
dragging his feet along the ground."

An according to Noel Jackson in _Effective Horsemanship_
"THE REIN BACK
"I have purposely left the rein back until this seemingly late stage
because it is a movement difficulty to do properly, and one that should
not be undertaken until the horse's free forward movement on the bit has
been well established.
"By definition it is a movement backward, similar to the walk, in slow
cadence on associated diagonals, making it a movement of two-time, in
which the horse should maintain the proper attitude, with his balance
mostly on his hindquarters."

So, I don't know which books Laurie has been reading, but certainly none
of the books that I have describe backing up as a lateral (reverse pace)
gait.

So whe Laurie also said:

> Well today, doing some ground work first,it suddenly hit me.
> He backs with alternating legs, like a trot stride backwards.
> Sometimes placing a foot separately, sometimes together.
> So Honey backs both legs on one side,and does it easily
> and gracefully and on cue. Rascal resists, and is crooked
> and backs like trotting.


So if Rascal is backing using diagonal pairs 'sometimes' he is doing it
correctly.  I have my doubts that Honey is doing a reverse pace.  Not
only would this be difficult for a horse to do, it would also be very
uncomfortable to ride.

And Laurie asked:

> Is there a right and wrong way, and how do I teach the right foot
> placement and does it matter?

Yes, there is a right way and a wrong way, and yes, it matters.  And the
right way is to do it in diagonal pairs.  And according to Noel Jackson:

"Incorrect forms of the rein back are:
1)    With the withers lowered and front feet stuck out in front to
evade the gymnastic of the hind quarters
2)    With the head up and neck and loins hollowed
3)    In short precipitate steps (to avoid arching the loins in
reasonably long steps of the hind legs) without the necessary cadence or
straightness
4)    Running back agains the aids, out of control" :)

However, one does not teach it by teaching the "right foot placement"
(if by right foot placement you mean teaching the horse which foot to
move when), but rather by teaching the horse first to work off it's
hindquarters and to work well "through the reins."

If, when asked to back, the horse first shuffles backwards, moves only
one leg, and goes crooked with the hind quarters deviating to one side
or the other ("a serious fault" according the the dressage rule book),
then the horse is not sufficiently "forward" to be able to "properly: be
asked to back. :).

If a horse resists the bit (or whatever you have connecting your horse
to the reins), then the horse is not yet ready to be taught the "right
way" to do a rein-back, and if you spend too much time trying to teach
it before the horse accepts your "hand" then you risk teaching the horse
a new way to resist by backing away from it...and that is absolute hell
to try to fix :).

kat
Orange County, Calif.




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