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RE: [RC] a year of 25's - Bob Morris

It appears what some people are considering in this
discussion is quite different than others. Heidi and others
are considering the horse and others the Riders.

While a particular number of LD's for the rider may be
beneficial, the same number can be detrimental to the
attitude of the horse.

So, in this discussion, which are we considering the most
important?

It is my learned consideration that the rider can obtain the
necessary knowledge with out the actual on horse experience.
There is a plethora of information available. Books written
over the past several decades, manuals produced by the AERC
and the Arabian association, archives of endurance related
forums, ad infinutum ad nauseum. All the rider must do is
make a serious effort to learn.

The horse however, can shortly learn poor habits from
several LD rides. Habits hard to break and detrimental to
the welfare.

Bob

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of David
LeBlanc
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 11:51 AM
To: 'Deanna German'; 'Ridecamp'
Subject: RE: [RC] a year of 25's




Deanna German said:

Howard wrote:
The point I'm trying to make is we need to do something
here. Dane
Frazier has suggested that a horse spend a year doing
LD's
before doing
their first 50 miler. ?And, he adds that the horse should
do
a year of
50 milers before doing their first 100...

Have to concur with Heidi on this one. The two LD's I did
on
my mare taught her nothing, zero. (They were good for me
to
learn the competition format without having to worry about
my
horse and I saw some GREAT trail!)

I'd have to assert that Heidi isn't a very good judge of
what a newbie might
learn from an LD ride. So far as I can tell, Heidi's only
done 2 LD rides,
and those were after some 5000+ miles of endurance. Heidi
knows a good bit
about endurance, but her perspective is a lot different than
someone new.
Heidi learned what she knows in a different way, and that
seems to have
worked well for Heidi, but might not be what everyone can
do. Not every
rider is a vet, either. I used to get A's in math by
ignoring the teacher
and only doing homework once every 2 weeks. Worked for me,
but I don't
recommend it.

That said, I don't think I agree with Dane's esteemed
opinion on this one,
though I do agree with his sentiment that too much too fast
gets you in
trouble. I also think that there's too much variability to
make hard and
fast rules - I did have the experience of riding with a
woman on her first
50 earlier this year - it was her first endurance ride of
any kind, and she
and her horse were in better shape at the finish than I was.
Certainly not
typical, but it happens.

I'd assert that there's some things that _could_ be learned
from LD rides,
like not to get caught up in the excitement and to ride your
own ride. If
you don't learn that before you try a 50, the results could
be ugly. It's
also the case that 50's are run a lot faster than LD rides
in general. On
average (and yes, I have numbers to back this up), if you
took the winning
time of an LD, doubled it, and stuck them in the 50, they'd
end up around
18th (yes, there are exceptions, but this is an average over
100's of rides
compared). I recently had the experience of doing a very
slow, tough 50 with
the 30 mile riders on the same sequence of loops. My first
30 miles was an
HOUR faster than the winning 30 mile rider. To be sure, my
horse is in shape
to do that. Even the back of the pack 50 mile riders run the
first 25 miles
at about a middle of the pack pace for a 25 (no hard data on
this one, just
what I know from pacing myself through a bunch of slow
50's).

I'm glad I had 5 LD rides under my belt before I tried a 50+
mile ride. I
learned a lot from it. If I'd made some of the same mistakes
on 50's as I
did on 25's, it could have been a bigger problem. IMHO,
instead of assuming
we can't learn anything from 25's, maybe we ought to try and
see what _can_
be learned. Not everyone should just jump into 50's - some
exceptional
people can, and if they have a good mentor, then they're in
even better
shape. I do know there's things you won't learn very well on
an LD ride that
you do have to learn to do 50's, but I still think there's a
lot that can be
learned from LD rides, esp. for a new rider. It's also very
likely the case
that Deanna learned these things doing CTR, but not every
new endurance
rider has 500 miles of CTR to start with.

Sorry to have rekindled the dread LD debate yet again, but I
do think people
can learn from LD - I know I did.



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Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

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Replies
RE: [RC] a year of 25's, David LeBlanc