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We raise, trail ride and endurance mfts and twhs. I would say the hrt rate 
of your twh means you should not be training nor riding him in a trot. We 
could go into a long debate about about horse breed history and genes which 
would not supply an answer but the truth is that the only group that I hear 
every talk about about trotting a twh are lateraly trained riders who want 
to ride a trot.  They may see their horse trot at liberty and then have the 
trot as one of their saddle gaits.
  I am not a show person. I have no interest in that world, except to go to 
a few a year as I do eventing competitions. Their is a reason the trot is 
not a twh show gait. I would say that reason is that the horse was not 
genetically predisposed to the gait. I think this is being proven by your 
hrt rt issue.
  Like every who rides a twh or mft with twh bloodlines, I spend a lot of 
time working on gait to make sure I don't ride a pace while setting gait on 
a younger horse. We train these horse for use and sale and currently have 
11. I have yet to have one trot under saddle.
 I would say your differences between your horses proves the conlcusion, 
these critters were not designed to trot under saddle. Does he have a 
running walk or a rack, a saddle rack or an amble?  If you want to email me 
off board, kwkibler@xxxxxxxxxxx, or on ridecamp is fine too. Good post, 
thank you.

Keith Kibler
Shawnee Sunrise Farm
Gaited Endurance


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Anderson, Kristie Lynn" <aggiekris@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "ridecamp" <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 9:57 PM
Subject: [RC] Question on odd heart rate on two TWH


> Ok, so a friend rode one of my TWH boys to try his first 50 this past Feb 
> and noticed something very odd with his HR. I've never ridden this horse 
> in a monitor before. This horse (8y/o gelding) is able to perform a 
> running walk, trot, pace, canter, and what I call his "lateral canter" 
> under saddle. I prefer to condition him at a trot with some normal 
> cantering. I don't permit him to perform the lateral gaits, as often 
> they're associated with him misbehaving. At liberty, this horse trots 
> nearly 90% of the time, and only tends to pace when he gets nervous. He's 
> in reasonably good shape.
>
> His rider noticed that on the HR monitor, he had a HR of about 170-180 at 
> a trot. He was about the same when asked for a normal canter. The rider 
> was very concerned, and got the horse to start pacing, and the HR dropped 
> to 120-130 range, and was similar at his lateral canter and running walk. 
> He only performs the running walk at the start of the ride when he's 
> excited. All the values were pretty consistent. Because of this, even 
> though I wasn't keen on the idea (but a HR that high and that consistent 
> is rather alarming), he pushed the horse to stay in a pace for the 
> duration of the ride. He was pulled at 40 miles for a 16/18 CRI. Took a 
> long time for the pulse to drop to criteria. No lameness, no obvious 
> problems, just the inverted CRI.
>
> Three weeks later, I took him to another 50, which he completed. Did not 
> have a monitor on him. His CRI at the first check was 13/12, at the second 
> was 13/13. He looked great, no problems, and was drinking well (this horse 
> is a poor eater, but was eating better than he normally does). We gaited 
> the first 3ish miles, and trotted the rest of the time. Minimal pacing 
> except for some tight single track. Very technical trail, more difficult 
> than he's ever seen before, and a very tough first 50. Had lots of time on 
> the last loop and could tell he was getting tired, so did about 30% 
> trotting and the rest walking, having a nice chat with another rider 
> through the loop. Had a CRI of 17/17 at the end but was given a completion 
> as he looked fine. I'm not overly concerned about that since it was a 
> tough trail and his first 50, and it wasn't inverted.
>
> I've ridden him at home some with a different monitor and i'm finding 
> similar readings as before. Doesn't matter which diagonal i'm on, and if i 
> put him in a small circle, it doesn't matter what direction I go. I can't 
> for the life of me convince him to pace at home, so I'll have to wait and 
> see on that end of things. At the trot, he starts out at 120-130, then 
> after several minutes begins a steady climb to 170-180 and hangs there. If 
> i ask him to walk or to stop, he plummets right back down to 60 fairly 
> quickly.
>
> Any thoughts on this??
>
> My second one is the opposite end of the spectrum. He had never been 
> ridden in a monitor until this weekend, and now that i've got one, i 
> decided i'd see where he was at. This one is also a TWH, a little younger 
> at 6y/o, and in better shape, as he was mentally more prepared for rides a 
> lot sooner. He did 300+ LD miles last season (i think), and this season 
> has done two 50s and one 75, and I'm planing on trying a 100 on him at the 
> end of the month. Unlike the other horse, he performs a flat walk, running 
> walk, and rack as well as a canter. Didn't do any cantering on him, as 
> it's pretty fast, and we were riding slow with a friend, but I discovered 
> that his HR rarely (at least that day) goes above 100. At his normal speed 
> he does rides, a 7ish mph running walk, he was sometimes as low as 72 bpm. 
> Do any of you other gaited horse riders see this with your horses, or is 
> mine just a freak? No wonder he pulses down faster than my Arab!
>
> Kris
>
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