Home Current News News Archive Shop/Advertise Ridecamp Classified Events Learn/AERC
Endurance.Net Home Ridecamp Archives
ridecamp@endurance.net
[Archives Index]   [Date Index]   [Thread Index]   [Author Index]   [Subject Index]

[RC] - Budler,Cindy - Afrox

Hi Lucinda

As I explained earlier- it is not the trim- it is the living conditions,
booting, and the amount of rides that cause the expense!


Herewith my first post
RE: [RC] Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot - Budler,Cindy - Afrox

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Hi Maryanne/All
Our beet pulp now is imported from UK I think- the Dodsen and Horrell
kwik-beet. A bit expensive- but might get cheaper with more use - horse
people are notoriously slow to try new feed- especially expensive feed- and
with the rand/pound exchange rate we can get VERY expensive!! 
But you are right in that the 24/7 is probably the key here- interesting to
see that mine- being rather cold here right now(down to -1 degrees C at
night) graze at night and then sleep most of the day sprawled out in the sun
(15 degrees)-I think that really makes them alot more sane! 

I am NOT doing the barefoot thing permanently - altho we now allow barefoot
competing in SA - if one belongs to the Barefoot Club. I DO NOT want to
start the barefoot debate again- but a few people have asked...

I honestly cannot "afford" barefoot here in SA- Afford as in I battle to
support my horses and my reason for owning them is to do endurance riding -
not winning as at this age all I want to do is a nice 16km/h 80km or 14km/h
120 km ride at least once a month- . I cannot afford the "so-called"
barefoot trimmers, or the imported variety of boots - whether they be
easyboots or turfkings or whatever.. and my horses feet do NOT last with all
the mileage required to compete well at that level on the ground where I
train. I also cannot afford to go buy some gigantic piece of ground
somewhere in the sticks so my horses can walk 20km a day over varied terrain
to compete barefoot safely and fairly to the horse. To be honest if I had to
do that I would have to give up horses completely cos I couldn't work to
afford them!! But occassionally- especailly when doing limited mileage due
to not being able to compete, I like to let the horses manage barefoot as
long as possible to give me a good look at how they move and wear their
feet- and be able to shoe accordingly. Needless to say I believe 90% of
horses here in SA should and definately could go barefoot cos of the limited
amount of work they do.

Regards,
Cindy Budler
IP Marketing
Germiston
011 876 1179
0824641809


Regards,
Cindy Budler
IP Marketing
Germiston
011 876 1179
0824641809


-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-d-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-d-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ridecamp Digest
Sent: 05 July 2006 21:35 PM
To: ridecamp-d@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [RC-Digest] Vol: 03.3944 



============================================================
====
==== Ridecamp Vol: 03.3944
====
==== For more information: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
====
==== Post message: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
==== Subscribe:    ridecamp-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
==== Unsubscribe:  ridecamp-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
==== List owner:   ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
====
============================================================
From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   Carbohydrates in Beet Pulp

From: "Karen Sullivan" <greymare56@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: Re: [RC]   Carbohydrates in Beet Pulp

From: Cowgirgoof@xxxxxxx
 - Subject: [RC]   need ple to stay Helena MT

From: cheval <cheval@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   Crupper attachment for english saddle

From: Kristi Schaaf <iluvdez@xxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   Neoprene crupper for Angie

From: "Ranelle Rubin" <raneller@xxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   Tevis place to stay before and after..

From: Aaron Turnage <ajandcrysta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   Carbohydrates During a Ride

From: rides2far@xxxxxxxx
 - Subject: Re: [RC]   Crupper attachment for english saddle

From: Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: Re: [RC]   Carbohydrates During a Ride

From: "Mike Sherrell" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   June horsenews

From: "Sisu West Ranch" <ranch@xxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: Re: [RC]   Carbohydrates During a Ride

From: rides2far@xxxxxxxx
 - Subject: Re: [RC]   Neoprene crupper for Angie

From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   Carbohydrates During a Ride

From: "Beverley H. Kane, MD" <sensei@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   Test Message #1 - Please Ignore

From: "Tracey Lomax" <bandipops@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: RE: [RC]   Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot

From: "Dyane Smith" <sunibey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: Re: [RC]   Hauling horses cross-country in August?

From: Lucinda Carpe <kharakterc@xxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: RE: [RC]   Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot

From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
 - Subject: [RC]   [Fwd: Carbohydrates During a ride]

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Carbohydrates in Beet Pulp


 Thank you for responding, Kat. There is much to be learned in 
discussions like these, and I am constantly reminded how difficult it is 
to include enough info to give the broader picture, rather than leave a 
narrow message that can be taken out of context and misunderstood or 
discarded. Where to start? It looks like we agree that beet pulp 
generally has (or is intended to have) low sugar content, despite a rare 
batch that didn't. Since that's the case, and since I've been discussing 
the importance of keeping glucose levels up specifically, and beep pulp 
has almost no glycemic effect, we can probably agree that there are 
better feeds for elevating glucose. We also agree that sugars are indeed 
broken down in the foregut. We agree, I think, that all sugars and 
starches are carbohydrates, but not all carbohydrates are sugars or 
starches. We agree that structural carbohydrates are fermented in the 
hind gut to produce volatile fatty acids (an energy source for aerobic 
work), and that about 150-200 pounds of hay is on board at any given 
time, much of which is made of structural carbohydrates. How'm I doin' 
so far?
 Let me make a few points clear. I'm not against using beet pulp per 
se. I often feed Complete Advantage at a ride, among other things, but 
it also has some grain and molasses in it (sugar and starch). I think 
that phrase "among other things" is useful here. Hay or fiber is useful 
in keeping the horse hydrated, his gut moving, as an electrolyte 
reservoir, and as a source of VFA's. It even has some non-structural 
carbs in it. But for the ongoing energy needs of the exercising 
endurance horse, a constant supply of glucose (coming either from the 
horse's reserves or his feed) is necessary to A) Keep him moving down 
the trail, and B) Tell the nervous system that it's okay to keep all 
body systems running (gut movement, sweating, brisk muscle contraction, 
heart rate and strength of contraction, depth of respiration, saliva 
production, water retention/clearance, hunger and thirst mechanisms). 
The shutting down of one or more of these mechanisms are, by definition, 
signs of a horse that is increasingly fatigued. We have all seen them in 
our horses or other horses at a ride. In fact, a distressed horse is 
often given fluids that contain glucose to revive him, because of it's 
ability to turn those systems back on.
  I like the analogy of an office building with all the lights turned 
on. If there is a sudden power shortage, only crucial hallway lights and 
the lights in the CEO's office might be left on. The same can be true in 
the tired, glycogen depleted horse. He begins to shut down less vital 
systems to preserve enough glucose to at least keep the nervous system 
running. You're right that he can't eat enough non-structural carbs 
during a ride to entirely run on the mere calories that they provide, 
but if he eats carbs, he will elevate his blood glucose levels, and his 
system will know that it's okay to keep all the lights on in the 
building, rather than sense a shortage and begin economizing on systems 
functioning. Arguably, and I'd be interested in your perspective here, 
when the horse is becoming exhausted, he still has ample reserves of 
structural carbs, VFA's, and fiber on board, as well as his tissue fat 
reserves. Yet he is spiraling down.
  So, "among other things" it may help the horse to eat some beet pulp, 
but he can get the same basic ingredients from hay, and he will do even 
better if he gets some sugar/starch throughout the ride, because it's 
more effective at keeping the "systems turned on" and at keeping glucose 
levels up. For some reason, some people seem to think that elevating 
blood glucose is bad. It's not. In the exercising horse it's a very good 
thing. It shouldn't be confused with high glucose levels in a diabetic 
person. Completely different scenario. And that's part of what makes 
this confusing to people as they try to understand all this, all the 
while wanting to protect the horses they love, as well as do the things 
(and feed the feeds) that will help that horse do his best without 
risking him.
 And that's why I type.     Dr Q
  

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Karen Sullivan" <greymare56@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   Carbohydrates in Beet Pulp


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bruce Weary DC" <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
It looks like we agree that beet pulp
generally has (or is intended to have) low sugar content, despite a rare
batch that didn't.

Except for in our area, the feed stores are now bringing in beet pulp with
molasses added
back in!  Need I say it's more expensive than the plain beet pulp that had
already become
ridiculously expensive?  When I first started buying beet pulp some 10 years
ago, the feed stores
considered it "cattle or hog feed"; it was about $5.50 a bag.  After the
horse folks discovered it;
and there was more of a upscale market (plus Purina made a big deal of
adding it to Complete
Advantage)....we are now paying upwards of $13 for a bag of the shreds, and
sometimes even
more if it has the added molasses back in....

Plus now have to drive out of county to get it without the molasses.

grumble, grumble
Karen

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Cowgirgoof@xxxxxxx
Subject: [RC]   need ple to stay Helena MT

Hi, I'm traveling through/working in Helena this weekend and need a  place
to 
put my horse for Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights. I have a horse  show to

photograph at the show grounds, so I may stay out there in my trailer.  If 
anyone has a paddock or pasture, I'd appreciate it.

thanks,
Becky Siler 

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: cheval <cheval@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Crupper attachment for english saddle


HI: Does anyone know where I can purchase a crupper adapter for an  
english saddle? I bought one several years ago but can't find the  
vendor again. It is a small biothane piece that slips into the gullet  
channel on the bottom of an english saddle and has a D-ring so that a  
crupper can be attached easily. Thanks! Bianca

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kristi Schaaf <iluvdez@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Neoprene crupper for Angie


Angie -
I'm late reading your post and don't know if you've
already found one, but Cathy at www.american-flex.com
sells neoprene cruppers that look a lot like the
original OF ones.
(http://www.american-flex.com/hardware%20&%20rigging.htm).
And, she does sell JUST the neoprene loop part for
$20! 

Kristi iluvdez at yahoo dot com

Life's a journey, so enjoy the ride (and try not to fall off)

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ranelle Rubin" <raneller@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Tevis place to stay before and after..


Hi Ridecampers,

I still have plenty of room for you and your horse in a self contained 
situation if you need a place to stay 15 min from end of the Tevis trail. 
Flat grassy area, easy pull into, vegie garden, nice spot..rest after or 
come before to preview trail. Contact me privately for details..

Happy Trails,

Ranelle Rubin
Coaching and Consulting Services
The Coaching Center
ranelle@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
raneller@xxxxxxx

916-663-4140 home office
916-718-2427 cellular
916-848-3662 fax

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Aaron Turnage <ajandcrysta@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Carbohydrates During a Ride

I find these type of discussions very interesting, and I enjoy learning from
others.  I've read TI's Equine Nutrition book as well as The Fit Racehorse
II.  I understand the concept of glucose and it's importance during an
event.  My horse gets 1/2 grain (Nutrena XTN) and about 1/2 beet pulp in a
sloppy mash during a ride.  Where I start to get confused is how do you keep
glucose levels elevated during an event?  From what I've read, and please
correct me if I'm wrong, the one thing you really want to avoid is a horse
that is now dangerously low on glucose, since glucose = metabolic energy.
If you feed high sugar/starch feeds, then the insulin levels will rise in
order to help process that glucose into the system.  When those sugars are
no longer available, the higher insulin levels may then cause the horse to
"come down" faster than a horse that was at a fairly low blood sugar to
start.  Is that correct?

So with that in mind, how much and how often should you be feeding
sugar/starch carbs during a ride?  I'm assuming this would vary depending on
the type of carbs fed, i.e. corn vs carrots vs oats vs whatever.  Would
supplementing with carrots and then a small amount of grain (approx 1 lb) be
adequate?  My horse has been doing well but does sometimes seem to hit a
slump.  The last time was on our first 100 at about 45 miles.  It was one of
the longer (and hottest) stretches and he just slowed down quite a bit.
Lots of food, fresh grass, and I'm sure some rest, at the vet check seemed
to perk him right back up and he was good to go.  How could I possibly
prevent this in the future?  Carry some grain with me?  We did stop for
grass breaks but maybe he needed something "more"....  

Also, what is the value of bran?  At Tevis they provide a lot of bran
mashes, something I don't normally feed, how does bran and the added fat
factor in?  Should I start feeding some bran now so he's used to it?  Should
I carry grain and plan on adding it to the provided mash?

Lots of questions and I'm very interested to hear the responses.  Thank you
Bruce and Kat.  Please keep the discussion going.

~ Crysta & Sinatra, Tevis Bound
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: rides2far@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RC]   Crupper attachment for english saddle


Don't remember where I bought the one we have...but it must have been an
endurance vender because it's biothane. Until we found that one we used
to just take a really big nail and slide it in there sideways to hook to.

Angie

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:10:27 -0700 cheval <cheval@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
HI: Does anyone know where I can purchase a crupper adapter for an  
english saddle? I bought one several years ago but can't find the  
vendor again. It is a small biothane piece that slips into the 
gullet  
channel on the bottom of an english saddle and has a D-ring so that 
a  
crupper can be attached easily. Thanks! Bianca


 Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

 Ride Long and Ride Safe!!




Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   Carbohydrates During a Ride


Aaron Turnage wrote:
I find these type of discussions very interesting, and I enjoy 
learning from others.  I've read TI's Equine Nutrition book as well as 
The Fit Racehorse II.  I understand the concept of glucose and it's 
importance during an event.  My horse gets 1/2 grain (Nutrena XTN) and 
about 1/2 beet pulp in a sloppy mash during a ride.  Where I start to 
get confused is how do you keep glucose levels elevated during an 
event?  From what I've read, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the 
one thing you really want to avoid is a horse that is now dangerously 
low on glucose, since glucose = metabolic energy.  If you feed high 
sugar/starch feeds, then the insulin levels will rise in order to help 
process that glucose into the system.  When those sugars are no longer 
available, the higher insulin levels may then cause the horse to "come 
down" faster than a horse that was at a fairly low blood sugar to 
start.  Is that correct?
KER did some studies to show this cycle from ingestion of carbos to 
"hypoglycemic" state to be about two horse. The entire cycle was found 
to be about 4 hours. The good news is most feeds today balanced with 
different sources.

Just a question. XTN has a significant amount of beet pulp in the feed 
and makes a nice mesh. Why are you adding more?

-- 

"The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite 
of a profound truth may well be another profound truth."    Niels Bohr 
-- Nobel Laureate, Physics



Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Mike Sherrell" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   June horsenews


June horsenews

       In June I've been riding east of I-5 between Stockton and Lodi and
further
east. Around the end of May and into early June, the cherries are coming in.
Traveller munched the clover that grows between the trees while I sampled
the darkest of the cherries. Afterwards I experienced no tremors or
dizziness from neurotoxic pesticides, so a couple of weeks later in another
cherry orchard I ate my fill, mostly Queen Annes now, while Traveller
hurriedly tore off as many mouthsful of clover as he could.

       I know horses are anathema to walnut growers, but trying to complete
a loop
we kind of got trapped in a walnut grove (which in my defense hadn't been
scraped of its winter weeds yet). This is the most beautiful place in
California. Standing in the shade and watching Traveller grazing, in my mind
I saw the walnut forest extending across the valley floor for leagues in all
directions, to the Sierra, to Mt. Diablo and Mt. Shasta, Traveller and me in
the center of it - how would Traveller feel?

       All six flymasks from last year were reuseable - never previously
has it
been more than one or two. I'm a real old buckaroo now, I guess.

       At the club playday T and I took blues in barrels and cones, but in
another
event I fell off into the sand when he shied right while I was leaning way
left to grab a flag out of a barrel. I did a pretty slick back somersault to
my feet and ran him down to finish the event, though.

       Two year old Andalusa refuses to give me her left hind. She falls on
me,
feint-kicks (and gets slapped), bites at me. I thought maybe it hurt to put
her weight on her right hind, but now I've seen her standing on three while
she twists around and gnaws at some itch on her raised left leg, another
time kicking at an annoyance on her belly with the left hind. I can't get
her trimmed unless I overcome this.

       Neighbor Steve brought over his yearling and we put her in the arena
with
Sepherade the two-year old filly, the idea being to socialize his baby with
strange horses. Sepherade touched noses and then went to vacuuming up
Traveller and Andaluza's left-overs (the two being in a neighboring
pasture). Steve's horse, a quarter horse-Arab cross, intermittently jumped,
bucked, and whinnied, then finally turned, raced down the length of the
arena and jumped at the fence, catching her legs on the top pipe, flipped
and crashed on the other side. She picked herself up and disappeared down
the road. We caught up to her at the fence with her own herd at Steve's
house, her legs a bit skinned up.

To see a few pictures from June, go to
http://www.grizzlyanalytical.com/Horsepix.htm and in the index at the bottom
select the link to June 2006: Lodi-Stockton area and points east.

Regards,

Mike Sherrell

Grizzly Analytical (USA)
707 887 2919/fax 707 887 9834
www.grizzlyanalytical.com

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Sisu West Ranch" <ranch@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   Carbohydrates During a Ride

"....you feed high sugar/starch feeds, then the insulin levels will rise =
in order to help process that glucose into the ..."

Disclaimer: I am not Susan G or even a self-proclaimed world-renowned =
expert on horse feed.

It is my understanding that when sugars are absorbed during exercise, =
they can be immediately used without processing using insulin.  My =
brittle, juvenile diabetic mother's body did not produce insulin on =
demand to regulate blood sugar levels.  If she ate sugar, her blood =
sugar would go high etc.  She injected herself with a standard amount of =
insulin  twice a day.  If she did an unusual amount of exercise, the =
insulin would help her body process the sugar for storage, and her blood =
sugar would drop with disastrous results.  If on the other hand she ate =
apples while she gardened, she was fine.

My reasoning is that sugar/starch consumed by endurance horses during a =
ride is used directly without any bouncing around of blood sugar caused =
by insulin production.  Somewhere I think I read that the spike in blood =
sugar in a horse happens on the order of a half hour (as opposed to a =
few minutes, or many hours) after a high sugar meal is consumed.  If =
this is the case, the sugar would hit the blood stream after the vet =
hold, just when the horse needs it to help burn the fat it is using to =
supplement its energy production. 

Ed
Ed & Wendy Hauser
2994 Mittower Road
Victor, MT 59875

(406) 642-9640

ranch(at)sisuwest(dot)us
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: rides2far@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RC]   Neoprene crupper for Angie


To all who are concerned about my mental health.  I've found an original
OF crupper. I've even found another crupper that needs the  lonesome,
dismembered neoprene loop that was mailed back to me. Hopefully, we can
sort of employ the organ donor concept to make the death of my crupper be
less meaningless by saving the life of another.  Now I have to find a
place to hide the "new" leather crupper I didn't want, since just the
sight of that stiff leather loop attatched below the OF logo  raises my
bloodpressure and brings on another fit of rage.

Angie

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006 09:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Kristi Schaaf <iluvdez@xxxxxxxxx>
writes:
Angie -
I'm late reading your post and don't know if you've
already found one, but Cathy at www.american-flex.com
sells neoprene cruppers that look a lot like the
original OF ones.
(http://www.american-flex.com/hardware%20&%20rigging.htm).
And, she does sell JUST the neoprene loop part for
$20! 

Kristi iluvdez at yahoo dot com

Life's a journey, so enjoy the ride (and try not to fall off)

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


 Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

 Ride Long and Ride Safe!!




Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Carbohydrates During a Ride


  Hi Crysta--
 All good questions, and probably the same questions on a lot of 
people's minds. You keep the glucose levels up within a good range for 
work by frequent feedings of carbs--grain, carrots, sweet feeds, 
molasses, glycogen powders, whatever. The insulin levels rise, as 
they're supposed to, in response to the increase in the blood sugar 
levels. The blood sugar levels in a working horse, must be kept up, and 
not allowed to drop to levels that cause work intolerance. The blood 
sugar levels drop as a result of two main factors: 1) The horse has used 
his glucose by doing work, and 2) He isn't replenishing his glucose 
enough by eating carbs. The reason that many horses have "highs and 
lows" can be because they use up a lot of their glucose (or other 
necessities like electrolytes and water) and aren't given the chance to 
replenish them often enough. When glucose is the limiting factor,  the 
liver will sometimes kick in and release some glycogen and the horse 
seems to sort of come out of it for a while.Your idea of a 1 lb baggie 
of grain every hour or two is an excellent way to start, along with some 
carrots which have some sugar, water and fiber in them. I really like 
the compressed energy bars sold by the Platinum Performance people, too. 
They have significant carbs, protein and electrolytes  in them and a 
horse can eat one in a matter of seconds. Feeding the grain by hand can 
take a little time, but you will have more horse for having done it. At 
a vet check, I lay out a smorgasbord, but I try to get them to eat a 
good meal of wet grain, and then top off the tank with wet alfalfa or 
whatever hay they will eat. You could do the same with grain first and 
then beet pulp. Or just mix them, but heavy on the grain. And keep this 
up throughout the ride. Those riders who do this, including myself, KNOW 
that they have more horse all the way to the finish line, with better 
recoveries, and better eating and drinking skills. Tom Ivers explained 
to me that the horse's appetite isn't suppressed by eating grain. On the 
contrary, since their glucose levels are up, he feels good, and his 
appetite is maintained. Horses that don't feel good are less likely to 
eat, as we all know. "It's like Chinese food," he said."They just want 
to keep eating."  And IMO, there is nothing that warms the cockles of 
the heart of an endurance rider more, than to see his or her horse eat 
voraciously throughout a ride, eh?      Dr Q, world renowned eater

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Beverley H. Kane, MD" <sensei@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Test Message #1 - Please Ignore


Test of possible blockage of e- from earthlink and horsensei domains.

_____________________________________
Beverley Kane, MD
Horsensei Equine-Assisted Learning & Therapy
Woodside, CA
http://www.horsensei.com

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Tracey Lomax" <bandipops@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [RC]   Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot


Cindy wrote:

Our beet pulp now is imported from UK I think- the Dodsen and Horrell
kwik-beet. A bit expensive- but might get cheaper with more use 

Ya, sure, that's what they said about petrol.....but moving on : it's
expensive to buy BUT I've found that feeding it has meant that my hay
and concentrate bill is reduced so I'm now a convert.

I honestly cannot "afford" barefoot here in SA- 

Roderick (who is, incidentally, Cindy's farrier) has become a bit of a
barefoot fan of late and he's managed to convince me to let him try it
on my four Thoroughbreds (all of the older Ridecampers who remember me
saying I'd never try it are now fully entitled to a whiplash moment) and
I must say I'm quite impressed so far.  Of course, I don't do the
distances that Cindy does, but my horses do work over varied terrain,
from soft sand, to tar, to stony ground, and so far, so good.  The first
horse we tried it on was Diceman who had the crappiest LTLH feet you've
ever seen, and he's been bare now for about four months, and I've just
started jumping him again.  

We've now pulled Toc's backs, Harry's fronts (he was in a half set) and
Barney's full set (he's off work for a month or so as he's tweaked
something in his butt and, to be honest, I'm too bone idle to ride in
the cold).  I'll let you know how they hold up.  If they do, he'll be
eventing bare, which might be fun : only TB in the world who events
barefoot and eating nothing but hay and beet pulp!  They don't come
cheaper to keep than that!  He also goes in nothing but a snaffle and
cavesson, and bootless, so my tack bill's also low :)  

Cindy and Celeste : Roderick's busy designing a new rubber shoe which he
wants to try on endurance horses who usually go barefoot, just for
endurance rides. Anyone wanna play guinea pig for him?

Tracey

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Dyane Smith" <sunibey@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   Hauling horses cross-country in August?


Everyone's situation is different, however, two of the factors that I
considered when I last had my horses hauled a long distance during the
summer months were:
1.  size and comfort of the accommodations--room to move around, eat and
drink en route, quality of the suspension (air shocks, etc).

2.  reputation of the hauler and insurance carried

Dyane

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Lucinda Carpe <kharakterc@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [RC]   Feed in South Africa- and now barefoot

forgive me for missing most of this discussion...
 How is it that one could NOT afford to go barefoot.
 I use a barefoot farrier...paying a tidge more for the trim is still
cheaper then shoes.
 Lucinda

Tracey Lomax <bandipops@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
 Cindy wrote:

Our beet pulp now is imported from UK I think- the Dodsen and Horrell
kwik-beet. A bit expensive- but might get cheaper with more use 

Ya, sure, that's what they said about petrol.....but moving on : it's
expensive to buy BUT I've found that feeding it has meant that my hay
and concentrate bill is reduced so I'm now a convert.

I honestly cannot "afford" barefoot here in SA- 

Roderick (who is, incidentally, Cindy's farrier) has become a bit of a
barefoot fan of late and he's managed to convince me to let him try it
on my four Thoroughbreds (all of the older Ridecampers who remember me
saying I'd never try it are now fully entitled to a whiplash moment) and
I must say I'm quite impressed so far. Of course, I don't do the
distances that Cindy does, but my horses do work over varied terrain,
from soft sand, to tar, to stony ground, and so far, so good. The first
horse we tried it on was Diceman who had the crappiest LTLH feet you've
ever seen, and he's been bare now for about four months, and I've just
started jumping him again. 

We've now pulled Toc's backs, Harry's fronts (he was in a half set) and
Barney's full set (he's off work for a month or so as he's tweaked
something in his butt and, to be honest, I'm too bone idle to ride in
the cold). I'll let you know how they hold up. If they do, he'll be
eventing bare, which might be fun : only TB in the world who events
barefoot and eating nothing but hay and beet pulp! They don't come
cheaper to keep than that! He also goes in nothing but a snaffle and
cavesson, and bootless, so my tack bill's also low :) 

Cindy and Celeste : Roderick's busy designing a new rubber shoe which he
wants to try on endurance horses who usually go barefoot, just for
endurance rides. Anyone wanna play guinea pig for him?

Tracey

Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

               
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates
starting at 1¢/min.
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   [Fwd: Carbohydrates During a ride]

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Carbohydrates During a ride
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2006 12:29:13 -0700
From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: ranch@xxxxxxxxxxx

  Hi Ed--
 How's things in your neck of the woods? You brought up some 
interesting ideas about sugar metabolism, and I thought I'd comment. It 
works kinda like this: The horse (or person) eats a carb meal, and 
digests it primarily in the stomach. It passes through the small 
intestine where it is absorbed as glucose into the bloodstream. As the 
glucose circulates in the blood through the pancreas, insulin is 
released into the blood to make the body's cells permeable to the 
glucose so that it can get inside the cell where it is burned. I don't 
know of a mechanism that allows glucose into the cell without the use of 
insulin. If complex carbs are used, there shouldn't be a "spike," but 
rather a sloping increase in blood sugar over 20-30 minutes. When the 
glucose levels get too low, the pancreas also knows this, and releases 
another hormone, glucagon, which tells the liver to release some of it's 
glycogen stores to bring the levels back up.  This is essentially the 
"check and balance" system of the pancreas designed to control glucose 
levels.This is probably the mechanism involved in the highs and lows 
horses (and people) experience during a ride.
 In your mother's case, she would eat carbs that increased her blood 
sugar levels, but if she didn't produce insulin, her blood sugar would 
just keep circulating, "trapped" in the bloodstream, and unable to 
"escape" into the cells. This is the problem with diabetics--they eat, 
but don't get the benefit of the energy of the food they eat, so they 
feel fatigued, and are still hungry even though there's plenty of 
glucose circulating in their blood. Since they're always hungry, obesity 
often goes hand in hand with diabetes. The resulting effect of the 
insulin shot has a lot to do with when they eat and their activity 
level.  If it's done properly, they get energy from their food, and can 
maintain activity. If not, you're right, the insulin will cause storage 
and weight gain. I can't explain why your mother did okay with eating 
apples, other than maybe the fact that she might have produced some low 
levels of insulin, and the sugar in the apples is digested slowly, so 
the two together helped maintain a decent glucose level.
  In feeding the horse throughout the ride, not just at vet checks, we 
can avoid the typical dropping of the blood glucose levels, and keep the 
horse strong and functioning better all day. It reminds me of the guy on 
Ed Sullivan who used to spin those plates on those tall skinny sticks. 
He'd have seven or eight of them going at a time, and he'd just tweak 
each stick every now and then to keep them spinning. If he didn't pay 
attention, the plates would eventually slow down and wobble badly, and 
eventually crash to the floor. We just have to "keep the horse's plates 
spinning."  And it's easy. Just feed him frequently throughout the ride, 
and make sure some of that feed is carbs.  Dr Q



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

_____________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by Verizon Business Internet
Managed Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information
visit http://www.mci.com
This e-mail message and all attachments contain the CONFIDENTIAL AND
PROPRIETARY information of The Afrox Group and may contain LEGALLY
PRIVILEGED information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
hereby notified that any disclosure, distribution, or use of this e-mail,
its attachments or any information contained  therein is unauthorised and
prohibited. If you have received this in error, please contact the sender
immediately and delete this e-mail and any attachments.Internet Web
Address:http://www.afrox.com

_____________________________________________________________________
This e-mail has been scanned for viruses by Verizon Business Internet Managed 
Scanning Services - powered by MessageLabs. For further information visit 
http://www.mci.com

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=