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Re: [RC] [RC] Flaxen, Sabino gene - KrisSounds like she is a rabicano. She may have the sabino >gene, but usually there is more white on the face with >that. There seems to be some sort of relationship between rabicano and sabino, though not entirely sure what. a minimal sabino can often have rabicano-type roaning, but will not breed as a rabicano, only a sabino (i.e. rabicano in offspring is always accompanied by sabino) As to the white on the face, it's possible NOT to have a lot of white, though fairly uncommon. of course, i would have to see a picture to say for sure, but sabino is a master of disguise - that's why crop-out paints are still so common. My guess is that these are two different genes that >produce similar results and have therefore been named >the same thing. I do not think there is a test for either >sabino pattern. It's the same gene - these maximal sabinos can still produce the minimal sabinos seen in Arabs, as you said. The difference is caused by some sort of modifier (one of these days when i get funding, i plan on doing a project with sabino), similar to the leopard complex in Appaloosas. One gene is responsible for all 6 patterns, but as yet, no one really knows the inheritance of one pattern versus another. The sabino (or leopard) gene is resposible for opening a gate which allows whatever variant of color for which modifiers are present. As a side note, TWHs are fascinating for pinto studies - they have minimal tobianos you wouldn't believe, that breed as tobianos, but have no body spots whatsoever. Here is a picture of a colorful sabino TWH stallion I'm familiar with that stallion - Pusher's coat of color. He is a son of The Pusher CG, who is largely responsible for sabino in the TWH. most TWHs are NOT this loud, they look more like The Pusher. The filly actually had some black hairs in her coat and to simply look at her one would think she might >have been a very sunburned black, but she was most >definitely chestnut by genetic testing. Smuttiness is distinct from rabicano - don't think i've ever seen a correlation. Could be a linkage found in certain lines, but they're distinct from each other. I've seem more rabicano QHs than Arabs (aren't too many Arabs around here) and they aren't smutty. I've seen several liver chestnuts that look black, adding smuttiness to them would certainly make it difficult. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Soli Sorokin" <soliae@xxxxxxxxx> To: "Ridecamp" <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [RC] [RC] Flaxen, Sabino gene Sounds like she is a rabicano. She may have the sabino gene, but usually there is more white on the face with that. She does not carry the tobiano gene based on your description. Rabicano causes white hairs interspersed on the coat (and the coat is often, but not always, more "smutty" than the usual for whatever color the horse is). It also usually causes white on the tailhead and interspersed within the tail - anywhere from a few hairs to quite a few. I would not expect her to produce any significant pinto coloration in foals, but she may pass on the rabicano, or sabino if she does indeed carry it. Interestingly enough, the sabino that exists in TWH's and the one that exists in other horses, particularly arabians, seems significantly different in the possiblities for coat patterns. CMK arabians, which seem to have the greatest incidence of the Arab-type sabino, often have tall white socks and big blaze faces, often also having belly spots. But you never see a maximum-expressed sabino as you do with TWH lines that carry sabino. (This will be a foal born white, with some very minimal body spots of color). You also don't see the pseudo-tovero (tobiano-overo combination) colorations that sabino produces in TWH's but does not produce in Arabians. My guess is that these are two different genes that produce similar results and have therefore been named the same thing. I do not think there is a test for either sabino pattern. Here is a picture of a colorful sabino TWH stallion. He does not carry an overo or tobiano gene, and has sired everything from solid foals to foals with "Arab type" sabino to foals colored such as himself, out of solid mares. http://www.dawsonwalkers.com/ I did own a rabicano arab filly quite a few years ago. She was a liver chestnut, very dark, with white hairs on the flank and shoulder area and a white tailhead with a few white hairs through the tail. Her sire was black-bay and her dam was chestnut-gone-grey. Her sire was not rabicano so I presume it came from the mare, but as she was grey it was not visible. The filly actually had some black hairs in her coat and to simply look at her one would think she might have been a very sunburned black, but she was most definitely chestnut by genetic testing. ~S On 1/8/06, L gin <ladurgin@xxxxxxx> wrote: Interesting you mention this . My mare Honey is 32/34 Arabian, double registered half-arab, and Pinto BS. She is a greatgrandaughter of Khemosabi- rest is Davenport,Crabbet- some Two white socks in front. She has a sprinkling of white hairs on her body mainly on her sides and back. Her mane and tail are black in the center with glaxen hairs on the outside-- "Skunking" I believe it's called. Whe has breeding her to a pony for a high end Hunter pony. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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