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[RC] The Authority on Electrolytes: Gayle Ecker - Joane Pappas White

10 years ago, a well known and forward-looking vet who has participated in some endurance rides as an endurance vet but who is also known to many of us outside of endurance, told me that the most important thing that had been learned to prevent treatment for our horses was the use of electrolytes.  The direct quote as I remember it was:  "I would get adequate electrolytes into the horse if I had to tube them in".
 
Since I was just learning, as many of your are, I had to experiment with everything.  But since I also rode only LD, a little seemed more than adequate.  Then I started crewing for 100 milers, including in the deserts, and electrolytes became a very serious issue.  In 1998 at the WEC in Dubai, I had the opportunity to meet Gayle Ecker who was doing much of the original research in electrolytes.  She ran a series of "sweat tests" as she tried to get enough information on each horse to see how that particular horse's chemistry was handling the electrolyte balance during the ride.  She described her project as "designer electrolytes" and my project, growing Natural herbs in my hay, as "designer hay". Her goal for Team Canada was to have literally a custom created electrolyte mixture for each horse.  She was a speaker at Reno and gave us some of her conclusions in 2005 and you should be able to find that speech as well but I have located one of her articles for you and its link follows. 
 
 I would suggest that those of you who are new, get to know Gayle's work as well as everything that Susan Garlinghouse has on her website concerning nutrition, dehydration and metabolic pulls.  It will bring you up to speed fast.
 
It is very interesting to see the current trend away from electrolyte use now but I think, as in all things, we are going to find that Moderation in all things is essential.
 
Gayle's 2002 article:
 
 
Susan's website:
 
 
 
 
 
 
Joane Pappas White
Price, Utah
 
-------Original Message-------
 
Date: 03/23/06 11:19:47
Subject: [RC-Digest] Vol: 03.3648
 
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From: Alissa Cowan <amcowan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   AHA approval for rides?
 
From: "Jonni" <jonnij@xxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   for those who use electrolytes...help those newbies
 
From: "Kathie Ford" <MsPoOh17@xxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   tevis list
 
From: Diane Trefethen <tref@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   the WAR? on ridecamp?
 
From: Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   for those who use electrolytes...help those newbies
 
  - Subject: [RC]   Low Tech and electrolytes
 
From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   Electrolytes
 
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   for those who use electrolytes...help those newbies
 
From: "Jonni" <jonnij@xxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   for those who use electrolytes...help those newbies
 
From: Julie Fuller <natira121@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]
 
From: "Kristen A Fisher" <kskf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: RE: [RC]   AHA approval for rides?
 
From: Alissa Cowan <amcowan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   AHA Approval for Rides?
 
From: Diane Trefethen <tref@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   Low Tech and electrolytes and all the other goodies
 
From: "V.J. Dern" <wild2qhorses@xxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   boaring in el dorado hills, ca
 
From: LOUISE BURTON <firedancefarms@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   AHA Approval for Rides?
 
From: "L gin" <ladurgin@xxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   treeless saddles--Link?
 
From: "Kristen A Fisher" <kskf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: RE: [RC]   AHA Approval for Rides?
 
From: "Jonni" <jonnij@xxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: [RC]   comparing electrolytes
 
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   [RC] Study on electrolyte/ulcers
 
From: Beth Leggieri <trailyaya@xxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   treeless saddles--Link?
 
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   Study on electrolyte/ulcers
 
  - Subject: Re: [RC]   Study on electrolyte/ulcers
 
From: "Keith Kibler" <kwkibler@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  - Subject: Fw: [RC]   Cycling, running, riding
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alissa Cowan <amcowan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   AHA approval for rides?
 
 
Hi guys,
 
Someone has asked me if the ride I manage is approved by the AHA for
sweepstakes nominated horses.  Can someone tell me what on earth that
means?  For a ride to be "approved" by AHA, does ride management have to
do anything?  Or is the responsibility all on the rider with the
sweepstakes nominated horse?
 
Thanks!
Alissa
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jonni" <jonnij@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   for those who use electrolytes...help those newbies
 
OK, So, I have sort of a challenge for those who regularly use =
electrolytes, and feel they have a good understanding of "why" they do =
so. Can you explain to those very new to the sport, how electrolytes =
work in the horses body, and just what they do.  Why do they make the =
horse drink?  And, why do we not want to give electrolytes to a very =
dehydrated horse. What can happen? What can happen if a horse gets too =
much electrolytes?  I would love to hear these answers in a very =
simplistic manner, than any newbie who lurks could understand.
 
So, who is game??? (you vets can sit this one out, you have that unfair =
advantage)
 
And for those of you who feel this subject gets beat to death, and want =
more "scientific" posts on this sport, this is your chance to shine. =
Please help these new folks out who are confused about electrolytes.
 
Jonni
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Kathie Ford" <MsPoOh17@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   tevis list
 
Hey all, just got an email from WSTF and the list is approaching 135!  =
Was about 111 last week.  Just sent this if anyone was curious.
 
Also, I had inquired about the list not being up and they said they were =
in process of a different computer program, or updating, something like =
that.  Said the list should be up within a month or so.
 
kathie
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Diane Trefethen <tref@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   the WAR? on ridecamp?
 
 
The post was removed from the archives.
 
At least we now know for sure that when felt necessary, it can and will be
done.
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   for those who use electrolytes...help those newbies
 
 
Jonni wrote:
 
> OK, So, I have sort of a challenge for those who regularly use
> electrolytes, and feel they have a good understanding of "why" they do
> so. Can you explain to those very new to the sport, how electrolytes
> work in the horses body, and just what they do.  Why do they make the
> horse drink?  And, why do we not want to give electrolytes to a very
> dehydrated horse. What can happen? What can happen if a horse gets too
> much electrolytes?  I would love to hear these answers in a very
> simplistic manner, than any newbie who lurks could understand.
>
> So, who is game??? (you vets can sit this one out, you have that
> unfair advantage)
>
> And for those of you who feel this subject gets beat to death, and
> want more "scientific" posts on this sport, this is your chance to
> shine. Please help these new folks out who are confused about
> electrolytes.
>
> Jonni
 
Several years ago there was a series of articles in the SE horse report
that did just that. This was our topic at the SERA convention this year
and the material was presented very well as to what they do, how they
interact, what happens in a unbalance, etc.
 
As far as "recommended" dose - the speaker would not give an "oz" per
mile number because it is not that simple - it depends on a lot of
factors. One of her main points, however, was to try to keep a steady
level which translates in to smaller amounts more often rather than
large doses not so often. This probably means carrying them on the trail
and dosing on the trail. If I remember Stagg talked to the speaker about
some sort of material for the AERC. I don't know what became of that.
 
The information is available - the AERC needs to figure out how to
supply it.
 
Truman
 
--
 
"Mathematics may be defined as the subject in which we never know what
we are talking about, nor whether what we are saying is true."  -
Bertrand Russell
 
 
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: [RC]   Low Tech and electrolytes
 
 
The vet check was at 35
> miles into the 50.  We came in, Lud's horse drank a little and I
> gave him a full dose of electrolytes (dumb!)  The horse soon started
> thumping, then went into a full colic and had to have fluids IV.
 
First, you'd never see a ride with a first (and only) check at 35 miles
around here. Second...if the horse needed electrolytes, it was probably
pretty late. On rides like this, does Heidi carry around 40 lbs of hay in
a feed bag?  How does a horse *start* thumping because of electrolytes?
If thumping is caused by a horse becoming alkaline and low calcium, how
does adding it *cause* thumps (unless you used the feed store brand that
is for horses that are acidic)?  If you wait till something's already
going wrong, then give them, does that mean they caused the original
problem?
 
P.S. On the "Low Tech" rode with a heart monitor for awhile and got the
feel of what different rates felt like, so I could better understand the
training articles. Don't bother now since terrain regulates my speed more
than heart rate.
 
Angie
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Bruce Weary DC <bweary@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Electrolytes
 
 
   The bad thing about having lengthy experience at any endeavor is that
the longer you're at it, the more you forget about what you ever
learned. We've all heard the phrase " He's forgotten more about XYZ than
you'll ever know." After 22 years in this sport, I have forgotten so
much that in a few more years, I won't know squat, and I'll have to
start all over again!
   Be that as it may, here are a few things my feeble mind recalls from
over the years:
    1) The horse carries 150-200 pounds of ingesta inside him at any
given time. Even if the bulk of his feed is only 1% electolyte salts, he
has a reservoir of a few pounds he can and does draw on during exercise.
This isn't counting the electrolyes circulating in his bloodstream.
    2)  The fitter the horse gets, the fewer electrolytes he loses over
the same given energy expenditure. He becomes more efficient.
    3)  Until we know if electolytes can potentially cause ulcers or
stomach irritation, prudence at least dictates that doses be given only
after the horse has drank, and perhaps in small enough amounts that not
only help lightly replenish his losses, but to give the horse "potato
chip mouth" and keep him interested in drinking. A dose of electrolytes
in a belly full of water has to be much less irritating than salt on a
cold sore.
    4) Proper conditioning is probably the most challenging aspect of
developing an endurance horse. Until I started religiously keeping a
calendar, I had no idea how many days were passing between workouts, due
to other life responsibilities. I think it's easy to get amnesia about
how often our horses have been worked. I mention this because I feel
that a very well conditioned horse will have a much greater "buffer
zone" in regard to his use, loss and need for replenishment of his
electrolytes. To me, this means he will be much less likely to get into
trouble if ridden within his ability/conditioning/trail conditions, and
will more easily respond to small supplements of electrolytes and feed
to rejuvenate him. More is not better in a horse that is not contending
well with his level of exertion, for whatever reason.
    5) I seem to recall some studies that indicate that the bulk of
electrolyte  and fluid losses occur in the first 25 miles or so. Maybe
this means a well conditioned LD horse has less need for elyte
supplementation than horses going longer distances, all other things
being equal. I could be wrong.
    So, I guess my philosophy is this:  Condition fully (and don't kid
yourself), elyte in small doses only after drinking, add a little elyte
to feed at vet checks (as long as they'll still eat it), feed snacks on
the trail (carrots, handfuls of grain, etc.), and listen to your horse.
If his energy level drops abnormally low, my first instinct is to get
the vet involved, rather than reach into my mojo bag to decide what
elixir might bring him back to life. Our vets are vastly underutilized,
in my opinion, as far as sources of answers to our questions about how
our horses are doing and what we can do to make the horse's day and
career safer, more enjoyable, and more successful.
   Well, that's about all I can remember. Please feel free to email me
privately. It's lonely here in prison.    Dr Q, endurance riding amnesiac.
 
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [RC]   for those who use electrolytes...help those newbies
 
 
Here's a good simple analogy. The horse's intercellular fluid is is of a
certain mixture. Part electrolytes, and part water. Picture it like a
pitcher of Kool-Aid. If you pour out "Kool-Aid" and add more water it's
no longer the correct balance...it's not Kool-Aid any more.  If the horse
needs that particular balance to function, and can only take in more
water, he's doing more damage than good because he is diluting his
cellular fluid...it's no longer the right mix. Having a horse that drinks
tons could get you in trouble if he had no time to eat enough or was not
given enough electrolytes to balance it out.
 
Very quick version...very prone to mistakes but I've got an appt. to get
my hair cut and I'm out the door.
 
Angie
 
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 10:54:48 -0600 "Jonni" <jonnij@xxxxxxxx> writes:
> OK, So, I have sort of a challenge for those who regularly use
> electrolytes, and feel they have a good understanding of "why" they
> do so. Can you explain to those very new to the sport, how
> electrolytes work in the horses body, and just what they do.  Why do
> they make the horse drink?  And, why do we not want to give
> electrolytes to a very dehydrated horse. What can happen? What can
> happen if a horse gets too much electrolytes?  I would love to hear
> these answers in a very simplistic manner, than any newbie who lurks
> could understand.
>
> So, who is game??? (you vets can sit this one out, you have that
> unfair advantage)
>
> And for those of you who feel this subject gets beat to death, and
> want more "scientific" posts on this sport, this is your chance to
> shine. Please help these new folks out who are confused about
> electrolytes.
>
> Jonni
 
"Man was created to complete the horse."  -Ed Abbey.
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jonni" <jonnij@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   for those who use electrolytes...help those newbies
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Truman Prevatt" >>> Several years ago there was a series of articles
in the SE horse report  that did just that. This was our topic at the SERA
convention this year  and the material was presented very well as to what
they do, how they  interact, what happens in a unbalance, etc.<<<
 
Come on Truman, you are a good study, and I know you paid attention, so
share some of the information. I know you are not afraid to type. LOL
 
Jonni
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Julie Fuller <natira121@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]
 
 
>
> What goes wrong is when the energy levels drop to the point that he can
> no longer transport specific ions across cell membranes.  THEN he gets
> into what SEEMS to be e-lyte difficulty--but it isn't that at all.
>
> Of course, if he doesn't go into the ride with a good hindgut fill, he
> does not have the e-lyte reserve.  But then he doesn't have an energy
> reserve, either.  So when you just throw more and more e-lytes at him,
> you may actually do more harm than good.
>
 
Heidi,
 
What you said here.... you know, it really made things clear for me.
I'm no idiot, and god knows I've read tons of info on elytes, carbs,
everything, but this really made it all click for me. Funny how that
happens sometimes. *grin*  I feel like I've had an epiphany!  (uh oh!
religion!)
 
Now what I'd really like to see is a comparison of elytes that shows
which brands have a ratio of all the ingredients closest to what is
optimal in horse forage.   Any of you brainiacs out there care to take
this on?
 
Julie
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Kristen A Fisher" <kskf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [RC]   AHA approval for rides?
 
 
You have to have the ride sanctioned by AHA, have an AHA steward and submit
results to AHA.
 
Here's the link to the AHA info:
 
Kristen
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ridecamp-owner@www.endurance.net
> [mailto:ridecamp-owner@www.endurance.net] On Behalf Of Alissa Cowan
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 10:45 AM
> Subject: [RC] AHA approval for rides?
>
> Hi guys,
>
> Someone has asked me if the ride I manage is approved by the
> AHA for sweepstakes nominated horses.  Can someone tell me
> what on earth that means?  For a ride to be "approved" by
> AHA, does ride management have to do anything?  Or is the
> responsibility all on the rider with the sweepstakes nominated horse?
>
> Thanks!
> Alissa
>
>
>
>
>  Information, Policy, Disclaimer:
> http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp  Subscribe/Unsubscribe
>
>  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
>
>
>
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Alissa Cowan <amcowan@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   AHA Approval for Rides?
 
 
>
> You have to have the ride sanctioned by AHA, have an AHA steward and submit
> results to AHA.
 
Huh.  Here's what I read on the website (thanks for the link!), which
lead me to believe that I have no need to apply to AHA for sanctioning
or permission:
 
>
>       Endurance
>
> Endurance rides consist of one or multi-day monitored races between 50
> and 100 miles. The horse that finishes the ride first is the winner if
> it passes the post-ride veterinary exam. Horses must also pass
> veterinary checks throughout the ride at mandatory stops. Limited
> distance rides (less than 50-miles) are good introductions to the
> sport and have slightly different rules.
>
>     * All AHA endurance rides follow American Endurance Ride
>       Conference (AERC) rules and are normally held in conjunction
>       with an AERC-sanctioned ride.
>     * *AERC and Federation Equine International (FEI) rides count
>       toward AHA award programs even when they are not combined with
>       an AHA endurance ride.*
>
So - what's the answer?  And I can't tell here if AHA allows 25 mile
rides to count, as they define endurance as 50 miles or more.
 
I can tell you now - there's no way I am going to sanction my ride with
AHA, pay money, and have to turn in results.  It's too late to do it, as
my ride is in about 30 days.  But it kind of seems like there's no need,
if I understand the AHA website.  So then, does the rider just turn in
the AERC results to get credit for AHA award programs?
 
Alissa
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Diane Trefethen <tref@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   Low Tech and electrolytes and all the other goodies
 
 
> It is my humble opinion that you can do this sport with a minimum of BS
> and have the time of your life, or you can fuss and bother and wear
> yourself and your horse and your family, thin.
> Laura Hayes AERC# 2741
 
When I was competing I couldn't afford an LQ trailer, or a tie 'em hi, or
an electro-fence or portapanel enclosure, or a fancy GPS, or an HRM, or
super duper supplements or e-lyte pastes.  So I built a good foundation on
my horse by CONDITIONING HIM, fed him good hay, grained him after each
conditioning ride, tied him to the trailer at the rides, pitched my tent
and then did the rides.
 
When I did think he needed e-lyting, I mixed up a batch of Becky's stuff.
The only times that horse EVER got into trouble were directly traceable to
ME not having done my spring homework (read CONDITIONING) before taking him
to a ride and then riding as though it were still last fall.
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "V.J. Dern" <wild2qhorses@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   boaring in el dorado hills, ca
 
Looking for boarding possibilities for 2 horses in El dorado hills, Ca. =
Preferably close to Lake Hills or Salmon falls.  =
 
Please contact me via email veronicadern@xxxxxxxxx
  =
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: LOUISE BURTON <firedancefarms@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   AHA Approval for Rides?
 
Alissa,
  This is something I have never understood and no one that I know of has brought up (I'm the region IX rep for the AHA endurance committee).  It says right in the rulebook that all AERC rides are approved by AHA, so why do you need to pay extra and have a steward, and why can't they use AERC records for the results??
  They supposedly use AERC records for mileage records, although I still get people who say the office tells them otherwise.
  Louise Burton
  mgr of Okmuglee Cougar Prowl and Movin On Up 50
 
 
Alissa Cowan <amcowan@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
  >
> You have to have the ride sanctioned by AHA, have an AHA steward and submit
> results to AHA.
 
Huh. Here's what I read on the website (thanks for the link!), which
lead me to believe that I have no need to apply to AHA for sanctioning
or permission:
 
>
> Endurance
>
> Endurance rides consist of one or multi-day monitored races between 50
> and 100 miles. The horse that finishes the ride first is the winner if
> it passes the post-ride veterinary exam. Horses must also pass
> veterinary checks throughout the ride at mandatory stops. Limited
> distance rides (less than 50-miles) are good introductions to the
> sport and have slightly different rules.
>
> * All AHA endurance rides follow American Endurance Ride
> Conference (AERC) rules and are normally held in conjunction
> with an AERC-sanctioned ride.
> * *AERC and Federation Equine International (FEI) rides count
> toward AHA award programs even when they are not combined with
> an AHA endurance ride.*
>
So - what's the answer? And I can't tell here if AHA allows 25 mile
rides to count, as they define endurance as 50 miles or more.
 
I can tell you now - there's no way I am going to sanction my ride with
AHA, pay money, and have to turn in results. It's too late to do it, as
my ride is in about 30 days. But it kind of seems like there's no need,
if I understand the AHA website. So then, does the rider just turn in
the AERC results to get credit for AHA award programs?
 
Alissa
 
 
Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
Louise Burton
Firedance Farms Endurance Arabians
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "L gin" <ladurgin@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   treeless saddles--Link?
 
 
  Researching treeless saddles--used to be a site on yahoo that discussed
and evaluated their experince with them. But all I get is the Ansur when I
try to search for it. Anybody got a link?
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Kristen A Fisher" <kskf@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [RC]   AHA Approval for Rides?
 
 
Didn't your original message say this was for sweepstakes? I can't remember
;-)
 
No special sanctioning is required for anything other than regional/Nat'l
rides and rides that will earn riders sweepstakes points.
 
Kristen
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ridecamp-owner@www.endurance.net
> [mailto:ridecamp-owner@www.endurance.net] On Behalf Of Alissa Cowan
> Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 11:36 AM
> Subject: [RC] AHA Approval for Rides?
>
> >
> > You have to have the ride sanctioned by AHA, have an AHA
> steward and
> > submit results to AHA.
>
> Huh.  Here's what I read on the website (thanks for the
> link!), which lead me to believe that I have no need to apply
> to AHA for sanctioning or permission:
>
> >
> >       Endurance
> >
> > Endurance rides consist of one or multi-day monitored races
> between 50
> > and 100 miles. The horse that finishes the ride first is
> the winner if
> > it passes the post-ride veterinary exam. Horses must also pass
> > veterinary checks throughout the ride at mandatory stops. Limited
> > distance rides (less than 50-miles) are good introductions to the
> > sport and have slightly different rules.
> >
> >     * All AHA endurance rides follow American Endurance Ride
> >       Conference (AERC) rules and are normally held in conjunction
> >       with an AERC-sanctioned ride.
> >     * *AERC and Federation Equine International (FEI) rides count
> >       toward AHA award programs even when they are not combined with
> >       an AHA endurance ride.*
> >
> So - what's the answer?  And I can't tell here if AHA allows 25 mile
> rides to count, as they define endurance as 50 miles or more.
>
> I can tell you now - there's no way I am going to sanction my
> ride with
> AHA, pay money, and have to turn in results.  It's too late
> to do it, as
> my ride is in about 30 days.  But it kind of seems like
> there's no need,
> if I understand the AHA website.  So then, does the rider
> just turn in
> the AERC results to get credit for AHA award programs?
>
> Alissa
>
>
>
>
>
>  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
>
>
>
 
 
  Ride Long and Ride Safe!!
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jonni" <jonnij@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [RC]   comparing electrolytes
 
I think this is from 2002, but I'd guess most still have the same =
ingredient breakdown:
 
 
Jonni
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Re: [RC]   [RC] Study on electrolyte/ulcers
 
In a message dated 3/22/2006 11:03:18 PM Central Standard Time,
 
> I would
> submit that perhaps more important than e-lyting in heat and humidity
> is riding to the conditions...
>
 
This is certainly true...and not just in heat and humidity.  That said, I'm
generally a back of the packer, so am not one to ask my horses for the maximum
effort you mentioned.  I've played around with elytes over the past 7 years,
and have figured out what works best for each horse...and the horses do differ
in what they need (and receive).  And mine *do* seem to do better when it's
very hot and humid when they receive more elytes.  YMMV, of course...horses are
individuals.
 
Dawn in East Texas
 
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------
From: Beth Leggieri <trailyaya@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC]   treeless saddles--Link?
 
 
L gin <ladurgin@xxxxxxx> wrote:  Researching treeless saddles--used to be a site on yahoo that discussed
and evaluated their experince with them. But all I get is the Ansur when I
try to search for it. Anybody got a link?
 
 
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Subject: Re: [RC]   Study on electrolyte/ulcers
 
In a message dated 3/23/2006 7:54:51 AM Central Standard Time,
 
> If you don't
> want to use them, fine, but the non-electrolyte people start to sound a
> lot like the "no shoes" people. It's not a religion you know.
>
 
I agree...it does start to sound a bit like that sometimes.  My horses have
never stopped eating because of elytes...in fact, they generally go right back
to eating whatever they were eating.  I've seen too many horses here in the
hot humid SE (some of which I knew well enough to *know* they were equine
garbage disposals when it came to eating) thumping due to elyte imbalances.  These
same horses, when their elyte dosages were upped, did fine.
 
Dawn
 
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Subject: Re: [RC]   Study on electrolyte/ulcers
 
In a message dated 3/23/2006 8:19:23 AM Central Standard Time,
 
> The best piece of information I've seen come out of this discussion is
> "observe your own horse first" -- but I have to tell you, that requires some
> major bravery down here in hot, humid Texas.  Not to e-lyte is going against the
> central region religion.
>
>
 
Beth,
In order to do this, one needs to make sure they are starting out slow (not
riding with their hair on fire), so that their horse has time to learn proper
behavior - eating and drinking.  And thus the horse is less likely to get in
trouble.  If the horse isn't drinking well, seems to be cramping up a little,
etc., then by all means give some elytes.  If it's a horribly hot humid ride
like so many we have here in Texas, then sure, you might want to go ahead and
give elytes.  Just because you give some at one ride, doesn't mean you have to
give them at all rides.  Play around with it, and ride slowly enough that you
can evaluate your horse and make adjustments before he/she crosses the line into
trouble.  Our CT region vets push elytes (and I believe, rightly so) partly
because our climate gets so many horses into trouble due to people not riding
appropriately for conditions.  Giving elytes can help horses have a bit more of
a buffer against stupid riders.  And then again, some horses get in trouble
in spite of the best efforts of caring riders.  It's a damn tough climate to
compete in here for most of the year.
 
Dawn in East Texas
 
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From: "Keith Kibler" <kwkibler@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Fw: [RC]   Cycling, running, riding
 
 
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
 
------=_NextPart_000_01FE_01C64E73.BD1874E0
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Kibler
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: [RC] Cycling, running, riding
 
I am a newbie to endurance and my first organized ride is in May. My =
longest ride in training to date is 31 miles and longest week is 116. =
However I have way more experiance in long distance triathlon, running =
and biking. For instance I am supposed to be preparing for my 6th year =
of a 500 mile bicycle event in late July. So, that is where my =
prespective is at.
  So, then to your question.
  Yes. To me it is the same. Besides the enormous similarities in =
training, (Both theory of increasing load, rest, nourshment etc between =
you as the athlete and the horse as the athlete) the other major =
similarity to me is the tremendous power of your own expectations.  I =
have done 30 mile bike rides that have just plain wore me out. Yet I =
have done 500 mile rides that went like a brease. The difference? To me =
it was largely that I fully expected to do the 500 mile with flying =
colors and a smile on my face.
  I hope this makes sense to some one other than myself.
Keith
 
  ----- Original Message -----
  Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2006 9:00 AM
  Subject: [RC] Cycling, running, riding
 
  So Frank, and others.
 
  Do you think your personal experience with distance training (running =
and cycling) are a benefit when you apply that experience to distance =
riding?
 
  I know my  own perception of distance is good because of having =
covered similar distances on foot.
 
  I only ride LD's (lots of old injuries) but I do head trips.  "Good =
grief, the Redwood Ride is just the Pear Blossom Run - done twice."  Or =
"After all, Hasso (in his early 60's) does a century every Saturday."  =
Guess I can ride Headwaters - don't even have to pedal.
 
  Nancy Sturm
------=_NextPart_000_01FE_01C64E73.BD1874E0
Content-Type: text/html;
  charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; =
charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"
bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=kwkibler@xxxxxxxxxxx href=""mailto:kwkibler@xxxxxxxxxxx">mailto:kwkibler@xxxxxxxxxxx">Keith =
Kibler</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=SturmRanch@xxxxxxx
href=""mailto:SturmRanch@xxxxxxx">mailto:SturmRanch@xxxxxxx"&gt;SturmRanch@xxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 23, 2006 12:16 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RC] Cycling, running, riding</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I am a newbie to endurance and my first organized ride is in May. =
My
longest ride in training to date is 31 miles and longest week is 116. =
However I
have way more experiance in long distance triathlon, running and biking. =
For
instance I am supposed to be preparing for my 6th year of a 500 mile =
bicycle
event in late July. So, that is where&nbsp;my prespective is at.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;So, then to your question.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; Yes. To me it is the same. Besides the enormous similarities =
in
training, (Both theory of increasing load, rest, nourshment etc between =
you as
the athlete and the horse as the athlete)&nbsp;the other major =
similarity to me
is the tremendous power of your own expectations.&nbsp; I have done 30 =
mile bike
rides that have just plain wore me out. Yet I have done 500 mile rides =
that went
like a brease. The difference? To me it was largely that I fully =
expected to do
the 500 mile with flying colors and a smile on my face.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp; I hope this makes sense to some one other than myself.</DIV>
<DIV>Keith</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV
  style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>
  href=""mailto:SturmRanch@xxxxxxx">mailto:SturmRanch@xxxxxxx"&gt;SturmRanch@xxxxxxx</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
  href=""mailto:ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx">mailto:ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx"&gt;ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 23, 2006 =
9:00
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [RC] Cycling, running, =
 
  riding</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV>So Frank, and others.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Do you think your personal experience with distance training =
(running and
  cycling) are a benefit when you apply that experience to distance
riding?</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I know my&nbsp; own perception of distance is good because of =
having
  covered similar distances on foot.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>I only ride LD's (lots of old injuries) but I do head =
trips.&nbsp; "Good
  grief, the Redwood Ride is just the Pear Blossom Run - done =
twice."&nbsp; Or
  "After all, Hasso (in his early 60's) does a century every =
Saturday."&nbsp;
  Guess I can ride Headwaters - don't even have to pedal.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>Nancy Sturm</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
 
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