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Re: [RC] Define "Collection" - gingerodgersWell kat, You might just as well have called me a moron and been done with it! Since you have posted your response publicly, I will do the same. Disagreeing with me is one thing but telling me that I am the only one in this world that thinks the way I do is obviously incorrect and egotistical. If you had continued reading this string of posts you would have noticed that others agree with me as well and also that I was not encouraging hardcore endurance riders to make their horses collect while riding endurance. I was simply giving my response to a question asked about collection. You must be extemely bored with all of this rain to have picked apart my e-mail with such intensity. Maybe you need to go watch a movie or something. Have a great! Ginger - the moron who knows nothing (I need to start keeping my mouth shut again) ---- k s swigart <katswig@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: From: <gingerodgers@xxxxxxxxxxxx>When training a horse to collect, my opinion is that you should always start with the walk.While you might be of this opinion, you would be virtually alone in holding it :) among anybody who does dressage (and consequently means the same thing by collection that I do). It is worthwhile to note that while the collected trot and canter are first asked for in Second Level dressage, the collected walk is not asked for until Fourth Level. Mostly because it is pretty much agreed by everybody that the best way to ruin a horse's walk is to ask for collection before the horse is capable of it (and a horse is capable of collected trot and canter long before it is capable of a collected walk). And it is also widely accepted that after you have ruined a horse's walk, it is EXTREMELY difficult to un-ruin it.That is the most difficult place to start but it's also the best place to start.You are also probably totally alone in holding this opinion as well.:) I don't know of ANYBODY who doesn't advocate training a horse by going from easier to harder.... The other parts of collection comes from the horse's headset and your body movements. If you have your horse's head properly placed and he is giving to the bit then his back will straighten, hopefully, and you will feel him, even at a walk, impulsing from the rear instead of pulling from the front.And this, too, while not an uncommon opinion held by many a "dressage" rider, is, IMO, also completely backwards. If you have the horse working from the hindquarters and his back straight, then his head will come to the right place all on its own. In fact, you don't have to "set" a horse's head at all, and attempting to do so almost invariably leads to horses that are overbent :). Which is another problem that is extremely difficult to undo (since you can't push on the reins). All that said, collection (if we use my definition of it) is of little use in an endurance horse. The place where it is most useful is when trotting down hill (or cantering downhill, for people who do that), but even then, it is not really "collected" unless the hill is super steep. I can think of but one situation where I would use the collected walk in an endurance horse and that is walking down a VERY steep hill, but unless the hill is really steep, a regular working walk (if one is going to walk the horse down it) or even a "free walk" is probably a better choice. If, on the other hand, when people talk about "collecting" their horse, they really mean that the horse is on the bit, then it is good to know that we aren't all using the same word to mean the same thing. kat Orange County, Calif. p.s. All this doesn't mean that I don't TEACH collection to all my horses, since collection is a great muscle building exercise (which is why it isn't very useful at an endurance ride, because collection is far too much work to be sustained for extended periods of time, and by definition it means less forward motion for that more work :)).I recommend that everyone take just one dressage lesson to understand the difficulty and importance of collection in a horse.I recommend that if anybody is interested in understanding the difficulty and importance of collection in a horse that they take much more than one dressage lesson, since no dressage instructor worth his/her salt would ever teach anything about collection in the first lesson :). In fact, a good dressage instructor won't be teaching you anything about "on the bit" in the first lesson either. One of the first things that many dressage instructors do is to take away your reins (and your stirrups :)) so you can develop your seat, which is where true collection comes from; and it is also where all good riding comes from, even if you never do ask your horse for collection. kat Orange County, Calif. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp Ride Long and Ride Safe!! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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