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RE: [RC] [RC] [RC] thoroughbreds and endurance??? - Homer Safferwiffle

For those interested in the subject, a trip to the web via Google will provide a link to places like http://www.imh.org/imh/bw/tbred.html where statements such as: " The Thoroughbred originated in Great Britian and its genitic origin is Arabian" can be found. One of the first links on the site is to the history and origin of the TB. According to this site, the "foundation" stallions fo the breed were: the Beyerly Turk, the Darley Arabian and the Godolphin Arabian. Actually, some of the Darley Arabians probably were Arabians and for sure some of the TB's of this century were Arabians. In fact, Gudea(spelling possibly wrong, but horse was real) himself was a pure Arabian and a pure Thoroughbred, as defined by the Jockey Club, that is if you consider a set of Jockey Club papers as being proof of being a Thoroughbred.

Perhaps short replies meant to enlighten others fails to answer all the possilble ways that a message can be taken but I guess that is what chat groups are all about. If in fact it were true that, as you said, "even though they all trace back to the Darley Arabian", wouldn't they be line bred Darley Arabians? It would certainly seem that way to me. The real question is "do they really all trace back to the Darley". As pure as the registries like to believe themselves, I personally dont believe that, but I do believe that the influence of Arabian breeding is very strong in the modern TB. I see a great similarity to "racing Arabians" and TB's. I have seen and owned TB's with very strong Arabian characteristics. No doubt that it would be an oversimplification to call modern Arabs, big Arabians, but the fact remains that the TB's have a great deal of influence from Arabian bloodstock and I am comfortable with the generalization. One of the great joys of being a pompous idiot is that you can do and think whatever you want.

The TB site mentioned above also has the following regarding Eclipse:
Eclipse won 18 races in his career and he was never whipped or spurred. He went on to a distinguished career at stud, siring Pot-8-O's who passed on his influence to such descendants as American Eclipse, Hyperion, Kelso, and Sea Bird. The list of Eclipse's distinguished descendants is virtually endless, and he is the reason for the predominance of the Darley Arabian line over the lines of the other two foundation stallions.


I agree that that sprint racing is the product of modern economics and a sorry thing that is indeed. I wish I could have married money and done something about that. I would have a stable of classic distance horses and be sitting on the veranda drinking mint juleps this next May, instead of mucking the stall of a puny half starved Arabian. Perhaps I could have done better if I wasn't such a pompus idiot.

HS




I would like to point out that all of the Darley Arabian's foals had
mothers and none of them were Arabian. So even though they all trace back to
the Darley Arabian, they are not big Arabs. Eclipse raced four heats of four
miles each. Sprint racing is a product of modern economics. Libby


-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Karen Sullivan
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 12:11 PM
To: Homer Safferwiffle; Elkenchild@xxxxxxx; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RC] [RC] thoroughbreds and endurance???


Homer, a couple of thoughts on your post..... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Homer Safferwiffle" <safferwiffle@xxxxxxxxxxx>


The Blood Horse Magazine and/or the Thoroughbred Record ran
> an article in the late sixties or early seventies that the last Barb
> decendant had died (In Nebraska, I believe) and that the remaining TB's in
> the US were all decendants of the Darley Arabian, making them pure
Arabians
> bred for relatively short distance racing.


If this is the case....why don't they appear more like ARabs?  Apparently,
something
else was bred in, as many Tb;s  you see are extremely tall, and some have
extremely big
and coarse heads.....so I don't see how they qualify as "pure" Arabs....

> The TB and Running QH blood in your Appy would be looked upon as an asset
by
> many, if not most people. Many would prefer the TB/QH blood over the Appy
> blood.


I beg to differ here. There are many foundation Appy breeders that are
attempting to both
recover the essense of the original appy (tough, small, great feet, good
endurance), and breed
out all the damaging QH bloodlines. Before people jump down my throat about
this, I'll say there
are some very good working QH bloodlines, however, the disaster in THAT
breed during the
70's and 80's halter trend to encourage these huge, muscle bound animals
with tiny feet, that had no performance ability at allt.....was also
inflicted on the Appy as the fad developed in that breed also. In the 90's.
the appy breed was also infected with Impressive bloodlines.......many
appy's now are merely halter QH's with spots....


P.S., my Quarter Horse bias extends to these poorly bred animals only. My
friend growing up bred
Quarter Horses that first all went to the track as youngsters....later, they
either were trained for barrles, or
show. They were well conformed horses with good feet, I don't remember any 3
year olds with navicular (g)
A local gal is also a big Quarter Horse breeder and fan. She buys cutting
horse lines, and all of her horses have
good bone, level backs and big feet....


Another breeder in my area that is nationally known and recognized is
crossing her Qh stallion with Tb's; to get bigger, hunter-type show horses.
A friend of mine bought one of her 2 year olds as a future show horse for
her daugher....they got a pretty good deal price wise, as as age 2, this
already "trained" horse already has been diagnosed with navicular.....

If I ever buy another appy, it will be one WITHOUT Qh bloodlines, and
hopefully some Arab in it. I do not see how crossing with Tb';s or Qh;s
improves anything. I have an Arab/QH cross filly, and fortunately, the Arab
influence has corrrected some of the feet and conformation problems you see
in the modern QH.


Karen

> HS
>
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