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Re: [RC] [RC] my next step: Proposed letter to AHA - Bette Lamore

Poppycock, Heidi. Magness was doing no more than what other top race breeders commonly do (in the t-breds as well). Just because a horse isn't in the "top 20" (which Seabiscuit never was nor Phar Lap, BTW) doesn't mean they are lacking quality or that the farm's breeding program wasn't a success. Making some of the top money in the race industry probably denoted success to the Magnesses. They just had to make choices as to which offspring to put LOTS of money into-- race training is costly.
I'll work with Lif and whoever else wants to give input and we will put together something for AHA and those who want to try yet again to make a difference (the civil rights bill wasn't passed the first go-round either) can participate and others can proceed however they feel best (even if it is to do nothing). This thread was a wake-up call for me that I haven't tried anything lately with AHA about the decline of the industry except gripe about it to others who felt the same way. Now with Registrations down, it may be a good time. I don't think we have any major disagreements, Heidi. My complaints are just not as generalized as yours and I choose to do something now with AHA now that it has merged with IAHA. I never said efforts haven't and couldn't be made in other areas-- Truman's idea of suggesting that AHA attend ride conferences is excellent and should be put into this letter to AHA.. I've spent a lot of money with them with registrations, shipped semen permits, blood kits... Sweepstakes Nominations...DNA tests... whatever--- as I'm sure you have...seems like they always have their hand out for one more expense--- hopefully if enough join together it can make a difference. There is a competing Registry, BTW in case you don't know; it was developed by Jay Stream. It is not important for endurance riders to be registered with the AHA in order to participate and they can always show a pedigree from the other Registry, which to my knowledge is the only Registry accepted by WAHO (unless some recent development just happened that I am unaware of-- being out of racing it is easy to lose track of all the politics).
You make your impact by breeding and I'll make mine in the best way I feel able to and perhaps between us and a whole lot of others such as Lif, Jan, Truman, and lots of others, we can turn this thing around. Let's not snipe at each other. I never criticized your contribution of breeding, just pointed out that perhaps that was not the best way to proceed in my neck of the woods.
If I don't respond to your next rebuttal post, it is only because I believe we've beaten this dead horse to death :-) and does not imply agreement, disagreement...whatever
Have a nice weekend
Bette


heidi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

Heidi
"I agree that there has been overbreeding of mediocre horses. >But
there is still a relative shortage of good ones."


Magness Arabians was breeding between 250 and 500/year--- hardly what I
would call mediocre. They would pick out 20 for their first string race
prospects and then another 20-40 backup and then give-away or sell for
peanuts the rest. They were just one of the race breeding farms in CA.



Bette, that IS mediocrity! If it takes that many foals to get enough to
have that size a racing string, we are talking about breeding a lot of
JUNK in the remainder. WHAT YOU DESCRIBE HERE IS PRECISELY THE PROBLEM! People will buy the dross because it is "related to" the successful race
stuff--but what they have is still a cull! If only 10% of my foals were
of useful caliber and I had to "sell the rest for peanuts" I'd have to
assume I was doing something terribly wrong.




The problem in CA (I'm not talking about other states here) is not
mediocrity so much as overproduction. I've looked at MAgness' "discards"
and they were very nicely balanced, good conformation and good
attitudes.



Can't speak for Magness in particular, but I see a whole LOT of these same sorts of horses out on the trail--they don't look all that bad, certainly not the sausage show horses, but they are NOT top-drawer athletes. And any program that has to ditch that many in order to produce a few good ones is the VERY thing that is driving our breed into the gutter.

And if all these "overproduced" horses in CA are of such good quality, why
is it that we see buyers from CA going elsewhere for their horses?? I
know there are good horses in CA--but time and time again we get folks
inquiring here because they can't find horses that meet their standards. Barbara went to Montana for her gelding, and I know she's been looking for
a couple of years. While the horses you talk about may not be "bad"
horses they are nonetheless not necessarily what the riding public is
looking for. And therein lies a lot of the problem!




We are in a unique position perhaps in CA as the race
industry for Arabians centers here, Texas, FL and Delaware. They breed
numbers to beat the odds.



Translated, that means they don't have a well-enough designed program to produce the qualities they want with any sort of consistency. I would also submit that specialization for racing does not particularly produce good riding horses--otherwise, the world would be beating a path to the barns of the TB breeders for their rejects.



The problem was that many of these horses
wound up at killers-- not enough buyers and they were not promoted as
trail or show horses nor trained-- simple gotten rid of ASAP for
pennies.



Again, had they been successful on the trails in any great numbers, people would have been beating paths to their doors. That has not been the case.



Many of the other breeders gave up as we could not compete with
these big farms. IT was responsible of us to lay low



If you are producing the same thing they are--then yes, it is the responsible thing to do. Most of the breeders in my acquaintence are NOT breeding what they do, and do not have the same problems with marketing "culls."



what with ARabian
registrations down and horse production skyrocketing.



Kind of a contradiction. Or are you saying that these farms are dumping their culls unregistered? Well, if so, double shame on them, not only for breeding something with no future, but for robbing it of whatever heritage it has. Meanwhile, if registrations are down, that means that there are fewer registered Arabians being produced. The quality ones still find a niche.



Fortunately (in
one ironic sense) with the introduction of the French so-called
"purebreds" entering the racing field and blowing away the competition,
racing revenues went down, purebred breeders went out of the business or
cut way back, and now things are much better in CA. In fact the Riding
MAg wrote that there was a shortage of show horses due to breedings
being down. Too bad so many of those athletes went for cat food at the
zoo. Yet, the pendulum swings for a reason.



The overproduction of racing specialists may be seeing a lot of those going for cat food. But it has become increasingly rare to find old-style classical traditional Arabian RIDING horses in that sort of plight. And when one does, there is usually a story behind it, such as a bitter ex-spouse trying to "get" theirs, or some such--not a matter of a breeder dumping excess horses.

While I don't deny that race horses are athletes, I would submit that we
are talking about two different groups of horses here.

Heidi







-- Bette Lamore Whispering Oaks Arabians Home of Bunny and 16.2h TLA Halynov who lives on through his legacy Hal's Riverdance! http://www.arabiansporthorse.com

Always remember: "Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away." (George Carlin)



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Every horse can be taught to walk faster than you think.  It is one of the
most important qualities of a good riding horse.  Some have it naturally,
others need to learn. On the other hand, if you are riding a tired horse,
an easy jog is more efficient, covers more groumnd with less effort.  (it's
the rebound effect of the two beat trot)
~  Dot Wiggins

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Replies
Re: [RC] Letters to the World -- showing, Chris Paus
Re: [RC] CA breeders, Bette Lamore
Re: [RC] CA breeders, heidi