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Mike Sherrell wrote:
> If humans disciplined their children as mercilessly as horses do their
> youngsters, the world would be populated by criminals and sociopaths.

I believe that Mike misspoke when he said "mercilessly" and that his 
respondents misunderstood when they translated "mercilessly" into 
"violently".  Mares do discipline "relentlessly".  Once they decide to 
discipline, "No" is not a viable answer from their offspring.  They give 
a cue.  If it is ignored, they repeat the cue more emphatically.  They 
don't need to rise to the level of brutality because their babies have 
learned from past experience that when Mom says "Move over", she doesn't 
mean sometime tomorrow.  She means now.  Like Mike, I wish more human 
parents were as "firm".  There'd be fewer supermarket tantrums - boy I 
hate seeing those whining, demanding brats.

As for herd dynamics, when a more dominant horse tells (not asks, NEVER 
asks) a less dominant horse to move, the lesser horse moves or gets cued 
again.  Unlike with mare and foal, the adult alpha will not stop 
escalating the cue, even up to an attack with teeth and hooves because a 
horse who won't follow the rules of the herd is a liability and cannot 
be tolerated.

I agree with Kat that training Male style is often more about force than 
training Female style but I disagree with her that females don't use 
physical force.  I also disagree with her about a horse not having been 
overpowered.  I think the connotation of that word  obscures the 
concept.  The connotation raises a picture of violent or great force 
being exerted on the horse when the fact is usually closer to the horse 
being the one to exert force and the human offering resistance.  For 
instance, I had a very willful filly.  When being led, if she decided 
she didn't want to, she would pull away from you and run off.  Notice, 
SHE was the one exerting brute force.  Then my friend's husband gave her 
a lesson in leading.  As per normal, she pulled away but he was over 6' 
and at about 200#, not a lot less in weight than she.  She dragged him a 
short ways till he got an angle on her and then she stopped to look at 
him.  She tried to get away several times that day, always fruitlessly, 
and over the next week, he was the only one to lead her and she never 
got away.  That was the end of her pulling away, no matter WHO was 
leading her.  Had she been overpowered?  Brutalized into submission? 
Hardly.  But she was shown that SHE couldn't do those things to a human 
and succeed at getting her way.  Broken spirit?  If you ever met Ruby, 
that is not how you would describe that mare.  What she really learned 
was what all parents want to teach their young... judgment.  When to do 
something, how to do something, when to exert force, when to be quiet 
and wait for things to unfold.  Ruby was smart and strong-willed and 
thanks to that early lesson in the use of force, she was on the road to 
being wise too.


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