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What those of you without the sorts of backgrounds in physics aren't taking into account is that the live weight is capable of aligning itself structurally with the horse, whereas dead weight is not.  By the same token, live weight is also capable of making the situation far worse (Bruce's misdirected water bucket illustration) by flopping all over the place.  It is indeed easier to carry things that move WITH you than it is to carry dead weight.  And it is indeed easier to carry dead weight than to carry something that is moving against you.  Your pig illustration is excellent in terms of illustrating how much more difficult it is to carry a poor rider than to carry a pack of equal weight.  But to complete your illustration, you should also include carrying a 50-lb child on your shoulders that likes to "ride" that way and has done it enough to be in synch--I've done that, too, and it is WAY easier to carry the child than the grain bag.  You're right, the wiggling pig will exhaust you in short order.

 

Part of the cost of carrying the pig is the ever-shifting balance--muscles have to REALLY work overtime to constantly readjust.  And even dead weight is telling over time if it isn't balanced--good packers carry scales with them, and weigh the packs--and won't tolerate even a few pounds' difference from side to side, because if they don't balance loads carefully, the mules end up sore and worn out.

 

Kat is correct--it really ISN'T as siimple as just weighing the overall load on the scales.  Balance and the dynamics of movement really do play major roles.  Your pig illustration is vivid proof of that.

 

Heidi

And you're correct, but our live mass vs a dead mass does make a difference. Where the water's being muddied (is that a word??) is by those saying that poor riding skills versus good riding skills makes a difference (and it does) to even things up (it could) and that the physiology involved somehow magically alters Physics (it doesn't).

Poor riding skills just make more work for the horse. Throw a 50lb feed sack (dead mass) on your shoulder and walk up a hill. Then throw a 50lb pig in a sack (live mass to be sure) over your shoulder and walk up the same hill. Same amount of weight, but that pig in a sack is creating forces in all kinds of directions that you have to compensate for (extra work) to keep your balance, even more work.

So in order to equal things up, I propose we all select and ride horses of equal mass and height, all lightweight riders ride like a sack full of fighting bobcats and all heavyweight riders must ride like dressage queens. Middleweights, you just go out and enjoy yourselves 'cause you'll be the only ones having a good time. It ain't never gonna be equal, but I still have a good time! I'm in it for the Fun Factor.

Bottom line: More weight equals more work as an object is moved. Just Physics, just the facts.

Barry Cole,  Kansas.

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From:  Truman Prevatt <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To:  Paul Sidio <Paul@xxxxxxxxxxx>
CC:  ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject:  Re: [RC] RE Physics of Weight
Date:  Sun, 30 Jul 2006 23:18:31 -0400
Bottom line Mother Nature does not supply a free lunch. Work performed on an object (like you feed bag of a rider on the back of a horse) is the product of the distance the object is moved through a force and the force it is moved through. For a complicated path like going down the trail, you break the path up in a bunch of little pieces and sum up the energy over each piece. That means that no matter what the source of mass, dead mass or moving mass, the amount of work is the same. A posting rider - even the worlds greatest rider - does not change the force the horse has to move the object through since when the horse "pushing" the rider up they accelerate it - increasing the force the object is moved through. This is not offset by the rider easing back down on the back since nothing is 100% efficient. Mother Nature is not a nice lady - she gets hers. Hence work is directly proportional to mass, dead or alive. Double the mass - you double the work required to move it.

Energy required is directly proportional to mass - double the mass and you double the energy required to move it. Double the speed you quadruple the energy required to move it.

That's pretty much high school physics - at least when I was in high school.

Truman

Paul Sidio wrote:
>This experiment leads me to the conclusion that weight does matter
>over distance...
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