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RE: [RC] Magnesium for spooky horse? Heidi or Dr. Garlinghouse? - Pam DeMerchant


Thanks Jim, Diane, Truman, Kat for the spooking/magnesium advice.  I'm already 
doing 90% of your suggestions, but I got some ideas from your comments on what 
else I can do, for example, being more consistently aggressive in riding out 
spooking.  Dunno about doing more walking--my horse walks about 2 mph.  It 
drives me crazy.  =)  Of course, if I climb off his back and hand-walk him, 
he's like "thanks, Mom" and is afraid of nothing (isn't that rewarding spooking 
behavior?).  

My gelding is calm and behaved 50% of the time (quietly asking my opinion about 
the scary objects), medium spooky 40% of the time and breathing fire coming 
straight out of the pasture 10% of the time (never any irritability, just 
extreme hyperexcitability).

As far as "do horses need magnesium supplementation", the heat index has been 
upper 100s here in H-town for weeks.  I don't believe 
electrolytes/grass/hay/feed can replenish the minerals they're sweating out as 
quickly as needed, so I supplement during this time (not year round) with 
positive results.

Thanks again,

Pam


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Holland <lanconn@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Aug 31, 2005 9:25 PM
To: 'Jennifer Fleet' <jlthompson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, 
       'Pam DeMerchant' <pam.demerchant@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [RC]   Magnesium for spooky horse?  Heidi or Dr. Garlinghouse?

Jennifer, it's hard to answer this question or offer solutions without
knowing the horse and spending some time with you and seeing how you
"interact" with Shahtahr.  This is like "advice to the lovelorn".  Without
"knowing" the horse or the person, I'm flying blind. Here's the best I can
offer.  The behavior you are describing on the trail seems fairly normal to
me, particularly for an Arabian. You may have progressed a little fast with
this particular horse.

Horse training is a long term proposition if you want a really good trail
horse.  It takes YEARS, sometimes....and some horses will always be more
inclined to spook than others. With horses that spook easily when they are
"surprised", I tend to spend a lot of hours just walking.  Magic was that
way. It's a lot easier to ride out a spook at a walk than at a trot. Until
he handles those "surprises" at a walk, then we don't move on to a trot,
however long that takes. 

When you first take a young horse out, initially he will tend to be on "high
alert".  However, if you stay out long enough, he simply can't maintain that
level, and sooner or later, you will see him noticeably relax. Stay out
until he does. In the beginning, ride alone as much as you can. As you ride
him more and more, he will begin to relax earlier as he sees the birds
flush, the dogs bark, the limbs fall, etc. As he does, expose him to as much
"stuff" as you can in little pieces. Take him to an ORV trail and let him
watch.  Every time you walk by his stall, give him a "mini-surprise", but
stay within his comfort zone. 

In addition, work on being a "rider", not a "passenger".  Teach him lots of
cues from the saddle to force him to concentrate more on you. (Sidepass, leg
aids, head down, gives, etc.) Make your cues subtle so he's always
"listening" to see if you're asking him to do something. Don't let him pick
his own way down the trail. Steer him around puddles, logs, sticks.  The
more you "interact", the more he will "listen" instead of look.

It's a difficult concept to explain in words and a lot of it is just
experience. 

Jim, Sun of Dimanche+, and Mahada Magic

Richard T. "Jim" Holland
Three Creeks Farm
175 Hells Hollow Drive
Blue Ridge, Ga 30513
(706) 258-2830
www.threecreeksarabians.com
Callsign KI4BEN

-----Original Message-----
From: Jennifer Fleet [mailto:jlthompson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 9:35 PM
To: Pam DeMerchant
Cc: Jim Holland; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RC] Magnesium for spooky horse? Heidi or Dr. Garlinghouse?


BUT....trotting along and a bird flies out of a bush, or a dog pops his 
head over a fence, or something shiny glints in the sun (stuff that 
takes him by surprise, in other words) you can forget training, trust, 
etc.  His first reaction is to spin.   I haven't the faintest clue how 
to break him of it.

So, if Jim's got some training ideas, I'm all ears too!

Jennifer

Pam DeMerchant wrote:

So Jim,

What is your solution for inconsistent behavior?  Days when your horse
ignores everything you've ever taught him for years, ignores legs, crop,
groundwork training?  Then on another day, he's falling asleep on you,
mellow, confident and sweet?  Same rider, same tack, same trail, etc.  Lol.
I'm all ears!

Pam


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Holland <lanconn@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Aug 31, 2005 5:45 PM
To: 'Jennifer Fleet' <jlthompson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [RC]   Magnesium for spooky horse?  Heidi or Dr. Garlinghouse?

Whoa, Whoa! Time out here!  Every time I hear about behavior problems,
people want to fix it with feed.  Get OVER it!  It ain't FEED!  Alfafa
makes
them HOT, grain makes them HOT. Time to vent.  My humble apologies in
advance for anyone I offend.  

Folks, it's TRAINING! <sigh>  If your horse is "looking" at all that
"stuff"
out there instead of flicking an ear back to you to see what YOU think, you
got a PROBLEM!  Spook in place, check with rider, yes.  Spook and spin, no,
no, no....

Got to a Parelli class, do some dressage, do something, but FORGET about
FIXING it with FEED.  Ain't gonna happen. If you CAN'T fix it with
training,
then find another horse.  Like people, (New Orleans looting is an example)
there are horses who are NOT worth your trouble.  JMHO.

Jim, Sun of Dimanche+, and Mahada Magic

Richard T. "Jim" Holland
Three Creeks Farm
175 Hells Hollow Drive
Blue Ridge, Ga 30513
(706) 258-2830
www.threecreeksarabians.com
Callsign KI4BEN
-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jennifer Fleet
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 5:45 PM
To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [RC] Magnesium for spooky horse? Heidi or Dr. Garlinghouse?

Okay, I've had it with the spook and spins.  After almost three years of
riding Shahtahr and managing to sit his huge spooks, he finally dumped me
at
a CTR this weekend.   He was unusually nervous and spooky during the
morning
of the ride, and did three huge spooks at NOTHING (drop and spins) within
an
hour.  The second one sent me flying.

I have heard that supplementing with magnesium can have a calming effect on
some horses.  I used it on my mare years ago and I recall it helping
somewhat.

My gelding is on the following feed:

morning:
1 flake alfalfa or alfalfa/bermuda mix (depending on what the barn owner
buys)

evening:
1 1/2 flakes orchard grass hay that I supply (he'd get grass both feedings
but I have to pay for it on top of full  board and at $15/bale I can't
afford it)
2 scoops Platinum Peformance vitamin/mineral supplement
1 cup ground flax seed
2,000 iu vitamin E
5 lbs carrots
glucosamine and MSM supplements (MSM is withdrawn before rides)


So....given the above, I'm wondering if additional magnesium would
help....he already gets alfafa in the morning, which I believe has a high
magnesium content, so it might be pointless to try.

Platinum Peformance has a producet called Platinum Gentle that is
magnesium,
calcium, and thianine (sp?) - an amino acid that has a calming affect - it
is all legal for competition and is formulated to be fed along with
Platinum
Performance without causing any imbalances.

Could this be of any benefit, seeing's how my horse is already getting
alfalfa in the a.m. ?

Any other suggestions to try?   Valium, Prozac, Xanax, a bullet?   LOL
Just kidding Shahtahr!

Jennifer






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