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[RC] FS Plan For SE GA/TN - Roger RittenhouseWell I will agree with Jim on this one. I DID comment on the proposal for the plan - it was on the CHEROKEE FOREST use plan that was quickly and very quietly published last year Nov Dec. I passed my comments to the FS Director in TN- headqtrs. I have not heard a reply. I also provided input for a plan to improve the trails here in the Starr Mtn area. I have not heard back from them on this either. I called the trails supervisor about the restricted use plan. So far it has not been implemented here, BUT it was done in GA. It WILL COME HERE TOO .. and per the mgr eventually to ALL the NFS areas. The plan says you ride NO WHERE BUT WHERE 'WE" tell you - ALL locked down . The current use here as other places is you can ride cross country and on old roads/trails logging roads etc as long as you do not make a permanent trail system. All this is being done to try and stop the few wildcat renegade riders who cut trails, cut switch backs and put in personal use trails in the NF. AND to eventually cut us out of the use of the forest. The original plan of the "Roadless" disaster was set aside for awhile?? but the same internal FS policy personal have other plans to implement the same means to the same end. CUT OUT USE. It has NOTHING to do with the current FS director in DC Gail Norton, (or GWB no matter what Jim says) Gail Norton I think is really trying to make changes for the good. It has to do with 10-15 yrs of hiring rank and file policy makers who came from the school of NO USE IS BEST USE..These folks are here to stay and their mission is to stop access and use to the NF system. They are from the over controlled environmental movement that the system is producing. Yes there will be pockets where the local mgrs will take the hands off approach and do nothing.. as long as they can. I was told by the local trails mgr here they would not implement the plan.. that is they would not post the trails as 'horse use'. If it is a trail that has been used by the riders for years it will remain -- for now. The way they get us off the trails is to NOT install signs, thus you cannot ride there. They could give tickets. I do not think there are enough rangers in the area where I ride to police this action. Most of the trails I ride on are FS roads or numbered trails. A few are not. So for now I think I will be safe to ride as usual here. But the controls and limited use polices are coming. Unless the directors in DC set this type of thing aside. Not sure where you work Dawn but the Use Policy was on the individual Forest web sites for about 3 months last year. It started in the SE of GA/TN The Policies will be 'approved' by the FS as they deem. The comments from users fell on deaf ears. I will try to work with the FS mgrs of trail system I live and ride on, but I will continue to ride those trails - signs or no signs.... I will be passing some comments on to the local HR and Senate rep - not that I expect any response or action. If this thread progresses any - I will try to find the links to mega plan.. it was actually a very large set of PDF files I downloaded and after a few hrs of trying to read it -- I came to the conclusion the bottom was to close equestrians out of the forest or at least implement very tight controls and limit access, next is bikes then hikers..??? And to really piss off some others - I just sent in the yearly membership for the BLUE RIBBION COALITION.. they do something about trail closures. -- Roger mailto:roger@xxxxxxxxxxx From: Jim Holland <lanconn@xxxxxxx> Subject: Re: [RC] permanent marking of the BH 100...Not! Dawn.... Dawn, please re-read my post. I did not say it was a "fact" that this policy will be implemented nationwide. It is JUST MY HUMBLE OPINION that it will be eventually. It's only a matter of time. I hope people DO get up in arms about the POSSIBILITY...they should. "Resource concerns"? WHAT resource concerns? That's FS double-speak. Please be specific, if you know. To the best of my knowledge, this arbitrary edit was solely a "policy decision" that was made by the FS without ANY input from ANYBODY. It was "annnounced" with the opportunity to comment, but IMO, they didn't "announce" it very loudly, especially to equestrian groups. I served on a Task Force with hunters, hikers, environmentalists, equestrians, trail specialists and other concerned citizens for over a year establishing the guidelines for the Cohutta Wilderness Limits of Acceptable Change policy. Everybody had their say, everybody made some concessions, and politely listened to everyone else's view and position. We all left pleased with the results and proud of our accomplishments. Equestrians (and other groups) lost the right to camp in some sensitive areas and other things, but that policy left equestrians the right to ride cross country in the COHUTTA (Georgia) Wilderness in groups of three. That is also true of the BIG FROG (Tennessee) Wilderness. This is acceptable in the WILDERNESS, but not in the National Forest? Where was the public participation for THIS decision? Wanna bet that the FS doesn't revoke our cross country privileges in the Wilderness as soon as all the appeals are over on the current policy? In spite of the fact that the Wilderness policy was developed by concerned citizens who LOVE it, CARE about it, clear trails in it, haul trash out of it, police it, rescue tourists in it, pass out LEAVE NO TRACE tags, etc. In spite of the fact that you work for the FS and have not heard of such a "master plan" doesn't mean their isn't one. Some of the local FS people here had never even READ the plan for the SouthEastern Forests when I asked them about it, and the local office didn't have a copy of it. In fact, one employee assured me that the "FS would never do that", and "won't enforce it", so don't worry about it. There were NO changes for motorized vehicles in the SE Forest plan. Same-o, Same-o. The ONLY change for users was to ban equestrians from riding anywhere except "designated trails" and "numbered FS roads". Just out of curiosity, you didn't say what you do for the Forest Service in the SE? Are you involved in policy decisions? If so, sure would like to hear some details on the decision other than "resource concerns". Studies? Task Force results? What is the rationale that could justify such a radical change without a study of the impact on users, land values, and overuse of the few (none in some areas) designated equestrian trails. Jim, Sun of Dimanche+, and Mahada Magic RDCARRIE@xxxxxxx wrote:In a message dated 2/9/2004 4:41:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, lanconn@xxxxxxx writes:If the current ban of horses on anything except numbered FS roads and "designated" horse trails in the SE National Forests is allow to stand, the rest of the country is next. IMHO, this is a test. The long term plan of the FS is to implement this rule nationwide.Jim, I don't know where you've heard that the FS plans to implement some rule nationwide to limit horses to numbered roads and/or designated trails, but please be sure of the facts before you post something like this. This is exactly the kind of misinformation that starts getting spread around, passed on, etc. and before one knows it, people are up in arms about something that is not even happening or about to happen. How do I know that the FS does not plan to limit horses to roads and designated trails nationwide? Well, for starters, I happen to work for the Forest Service...and in the agency's SE region where you state that this is occurring. Yes, I know that on some forests and/or districts there are resource concerns that are prompting the agency to limit various trail users, including equestrians (although it is the motorized trai users who are experiencing the greatest limitations). But there is no evil master plan that I am aware of to limit horses to roads nationwi ! de.Believe me, as a FS employee *and* an endurance rider, I do keep tabs on those sorts of things, even though I work as a wildlife biologist. So continue to alert people to important issues...but be sure of the facts before you do. Dawn in East Texas (yes, part of the Southeastern Region of the FS) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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