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Re: [RC] Overridden and Fit to Continue - patty bass

i feel i just have to  put this in. i haven't done 1000's of miles but i  haven't met a vet yet that didn't have their own opinion and stick with it. ie if they think the horse should be pulled  it gets pulled.  end of discussion at the  ride. don't get me wrong, that is good. i therefore  think   taliking to the vets is where the major part of my "education" on rides comes from. i would feel so intimidated if the vet didn't say something to me and ask how the  ride was  going.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: [RC] Overridden and Fit to Continue

Beating Heidi to the punch here on Ridecamp is a rare occurrence; congratulations, Lynne, I think you did it. Must be that officer type initiative.  I salute you.  lol.  jk.
 
I think we're talking apples and oranges here.  Your examples are situations where the rider is most likely going to take their horse out of the game anyway.  They have stopped, in their minds, competing and need validation from the vet for this decision.  Or, the vet sees something amiss with gut sounds, for example, and starts asking questions about whether or not the horse is eating/drinking.
 
I'm really talking about the opposite type of rider here.  The rider who will exaggerate, make excuses, with the intention of completing this ride and quite possibly top tenning.  This type of rider will do his/her best to influence the vet and have them allow the horse to continue on.  This is the interaction I would like to see eliminated.  The problem is, how do you do that without eliminating the interaction between the vet and the concerned rider?  There in lies the dilemma.
 
I guess my point is (do you have one?) that there are different types of riders; some are more honest than others.  Each rider has their own personal goals they would like to see accomplished at a ride.  I'm inferring that we need to try and eliminate the vet/rider interaction to protect the horse from those overzealous riders.  If you're the type of rider who will eliminate the horse on your own (RO) than, by all means, confer with the vet. 
 
The problem is, how do you tell the difference concerning what type of rider a person is?  I feel that the only way  to stop the overzealous rider from influencing the vet is to eliminate interaction between riders and the vets if the rider's horse is "still in the game."  If you're in the position where the vet is going to hold your card, look at your horse again, then the rules of not interacting no longer apply.  You are no longer a competitor and your best hope is for completion only.
 
cya,
Howard  (sometimes oranges can appear green)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [RC] Overridden and Fit to Continue

Let me beat Heidi to it!

Exit vet checks!  If the horse isn't ok at the end of the check, he is
pulled.  Period.  No baby-him-till-the-next-check.

I still think the rider needs to talk to the vet, Howard.  That the vet
has the right to ask "has he been EDPP", etc.  If he is
uncharacteristically not drinking when usually he drinks like a fish,
the exposure of that fact helps the RIDER make the right decision on
the part of the horse.  Talking helps the rider reason it out, with the
vet's input

JMO,
Lynne
who has pulled numerable times under RO conditions, which would be now
better called RO-M or RO-L

On Wednesday, August 27, 2003, at 07:55 AM, Howard Bramhall wrote:

> OK, this is a viable argument and there have been times in the past I
> have thought this way, also.
>
> First, let me say if a horse is in trouble, by all means, talk to the
> vet. Tell them everything you know.
>
> But, the competitive part of endurance, the part where it's a
> pass/fail test at the vet check concerning lameness, heart rate and
> anything else related to completing the vet check should be as
> objective as possible. For a rider, who personally knows the vet or
> vice-versa, this is where you get caveats thrown into the game that
> should not be there. For example, a well known rider comes in with a
> horse that appears to be tired. The vet tells the rider that the
> horse needs to go slow or stop completely. The rider agrees and
> promises to slow down the next loop. The vet, because he/she knows
> and trusts this person, allows the horse to continue.
>
> The above situation should not happen. Period. And, it does, more
> often than one would like to see. To me, the horse either passes the
> vet check or he does not. No discussion is really necessary. As many
> endurance vets will tell you they've heard every excuse under the sun
> mentioned by riders who want to continue on with their horse that is
> borderline. After all, to finish is to win. What does that imply if
> you don't finish????

Replies
Re: [RC] Overridden and Fit to Continue, Lynne Glazer
Re: [RC] Overridden and Fit to Continue, Howard Bramhall