Home Current News News Archive Shop/Advertise Ridecamp Classified Events Learn/AERC
Endurance.Net Home Ridecamp Archives
ridecamp@endurance.net
[Archives Index]   [Date Index]   [Thread Index]   [Author Index]   [Subject Index]

RE: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002 - Bob Morris

OK Steph:

I recognize and accept your argument and believe that you
have some very valid points.

But look at it in this manner; the statement "No specific
management or veterinary circumstances have been identified
that may have prevented this fatality." used in instance
after instance is stock, uncaring and very self serving. To
take one of the instances from the AERC Minutes of March 13,
2003, to wit:

RE:  Horse fatality ? East Bay Ride 9/14/02.  Dear Executive
Director, The Veterinary Committee has reviewed the
information concerning this fatality.  No specific
management or veterinary circumstances have been identified
that may have prevented this fatality.  This tragic accident
occurred the night before the ride.  The horse, a stallion,
broke out of his plastic portable pen about 3 a.m.  Police
found him later on a nearby road.  He had sustained a
fractured left humerus ad was euthanized.  No information
was provided regarding the experience of this horse with
this portable corral.  This fatality points out that all
aspects of horse care is important, including their stabling
arrangement while at a ride.  Making certain they are
familiar and comfortable with restraint/stabling methods
before going to a ride can be critical?even then accidents
can occur.  Rider education about all aspects of horse
safety is indicated.  Respectfully, AERC Veterinary
Committee,

Now this is not the first instance of this type of incident.
This is a recurring cause of horse injuries often resulting
in euthanasia. This type of accident has been happening for
many years and yet the immediate investigation can identify
any circumstance that would have prevented it? I would
present to you the following analysis of the aforementioned
incident, done with no more knowledge than that supplied in
the minutes.

First a stallion; Most state animal regulations have very
strict conditions concerning the confinement of stallions.
They determine the heights of fences, the type of materials
and other such things. These regulations are not made
whimsically.

Second, also concerning the confinement of a stallion; In
the past it was always recommended (yes, I am referring to
the good old days) that the stallion be tethered directly to
your trailer utilizing a halter and directly tied lead rope.
In addition a separate neck rope was to be used as a back up
restraint.

Third; it was stated "No information was provided regarding
the experience of this horse with this portable corral."
Was any solicited? If not why not?

While we are commenting on a very emotional subject we must
consider the ramifications of such actions. To just reduce
it to a stock form is barely a step above "check the closest
appropriate box".

Good to talk with you the other day.

Bob




Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steph
Teeter
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 12:33 PM
To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002


I'm going to jump into the fray here, because I happen to
disagree - I think
the statement by the veterinary committee is acceptable.

Let's look at the statement again:
"No specific management or veterinary circumstances have
been identified
that may have prevented
this fatality."

Why is this unnacceptable? Obviously 'something' caused
these deaths -
dehydration, freak accident, dangerous section of trail,
spooked horse in
camp... The veterinary committee is not trying to say that
there was no
cause for the deaths. Only that they did not identify any
SPECIFIC things
that management and veterinarians did or did not do that
might have
contributed to the accidents: i.e. there is no obvious blame
to be placed,
and no grounds for disciplinary action against ride
management and
veterinarians.

I think the letter sent by the Vet committee to members was
very clear in
defining this sport as an inherently dangerous, and
physically difficult
sport, and that riders and owners need to be aware of this.
And I strongly
su pport their letter - horses are big dumb fearful (but
beautiful!)
animals, and we are asking them to perform incredible
athletic feats, as
well as get through all of the trail/camp/vet/travel hazards
that exist.

Both veterinarians and ride managers have an enormous
responsibility - and
pretty much use AERC rules as their guidelines. I suspect
there are many
cases where vets (and ride managers) have doubts or concerns
about horses
but the rules of competition still have to be adhered to -
it would not be
acceptable for a vet to pull a horse that met all AERC
rules - veterinary
criteria. If (for example) a rider is pushing a horse harder
than is
prudent, the only thing vets and RM's can do is give advice
and warning -
this alone is not sufficient cause to disqualify a
competitor.

It isn't simple - and I think it's a bit harsh to accuse the
vet committee
of 'inane statements'.

Steph



-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Bob
Morris
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:53 AM
To: walkergirl@xxxxxxxxxx; ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002


I believe that Howard's prime argument was about the
statement <<<"No specific management or veterinary
circumstances have been identified that may have prevented
this fatality.">>>

This is tantamount to stating that fatalities are inevitable
and we should just accept that they will occur.

In the real world, every accident has a proximate cause and
a possible preventative. In the case of a broken leg or fall
off the trail it could be nothing more than a more prudent
rate of travel.

I agree with Howard that the above statement has no place in
the analysis of endurance competition related fatalities. If
the vets cannot come up with a worthwhile comment then they
should refrain from such inane CYA statements.


Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of A.
Perez
Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:37 AM
To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002


 Good post, Howeard.  I do find it interesting to note,
though,
that deaths due to metabolic failure are those you suggest
are
preventable, whereas death due to broken legs/necks from
falling
off the trail are an accepted hazard.  Are some trails just
too
risky for endurance races?  What exactly causes these
accidents
- are horses stumbling?  Spooking?  Being run off the trail?
Is
rider error at fault (failure to keep safe distance between
horses, failure to watch where they are going)?  Should
ride-managers be more careful in planning routes?  I ride
some
pretty hairy trails, and am no coward when it comes to
technical
riding, but I have never 'fallen off' a trail or seen anyone
else do so... it seems to me to be a pretty avoidable
hazard -
or is it?

________________________________________________
Get your own "800" number
Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more
http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=
Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net,
http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer:
http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
Subscribe/Unsubscribe
http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=
Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net,
http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer:
http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
Subscribe/Unsubscribe
http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=
Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net,
http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer:
http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
Subscribe/Unsubscribe
http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
=-=-=-=-=



=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=


Replies
RE: [RC] horse fatalities, 2002, Steph Teeter