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Mike Sherrell said:

> If you think that horses are controlled by love and not
> force, you've never watched a herd of mares.
Like I said, it is probably a gender difference.  To me, the idea of
getting cooperation from a horse by physically overpowering it is as
silly as the idea of getting cooperation from a man by the same means.

I find it funny that he thinks it necessary.

I am currently working with a 4 y.o. BLM mustang (so nobody put a halter
on him as a yearling and overpowered him).  And I can now lead him with
the lead rope draped over my shoulder (or actually, with nothing at all,
since he will follow me around like a dog).  However, this doesn't mean
that he thinks he cannot jerk me off my feet if he wants to, or trample
me if he wants to.  He just knows (at least he does now, he didn't a few
months ago when I first got him) that I don't like that very much, and
he is motivated to please me.

I did not even TRY to engaged in a contest of strength with him, if I
did, he would simply overpower me. I  have never tried to overpower him
and don't expect that I or anybody else ever will.

If you think you are able to overpower your horses, it is only because
your horses aren't trying very hard.

That mare that I posted about was, in many ways, an exceptional horse,
in that she knew exactly how strong she was and she knew exactly how to
use that strength...even when sedated (I didn't start working with her
until she was a 1300 lb 4 y.o either).  And you could stand 90 degrees
to her head and try to yank on the lead rope and she would simply jerk
you off your feet; she would do this by giving you just a little bit of
slack, maybe a 1/4 of an inch, and then using only her neck muscles flip
her head to the side and bodily lift you off the ground, and the instant
your feet are even slightly off the ground she could drag you wherever
she wanted, unless you let go, which she could do until you did.

People who did not respect her strength and tried to overpower her were
quickly shown just how foolhardy that was.  One guy had the flesh ripped
off his fingers to the bone by trying to hold on to her (yes, he was
wearing gloves, the rope ripped through the gloves too).  And the first
thing she would do with anybody new who wanted to do anything with her
was tell them: "You do realize that I don't HAVE to comply don't you?"
And if they didn't say yes, she would show them.  If they did say "yes,
I know, but please do it anyway."  Mostly she would say, "Okay."

I could ride her over hill and dale, jump her over large obstacles, lead
her, tie her as long as I didn't tie her fast (if I tied her fast she
would just break whatever she was tied with or tied to).  The only thing
I never
did figure out was that trailering thing.  I might have been able to if
I were really important to me, but it wasn't that important.

And lest you think that this is just a big horse thing, I have another
small horse (only 600 lbs) who came to me after having been engaged in a
battle of strength (with a guy with a rope mind you, who knocked her to
the ground with it, but still that did not engender compliance) that
both of them lost (they ended up on the ground together), after having
been declared "too stupid to learn" because she was no more compliant
(in fact less so) after she had been thrown to the ground.

Even now, 12 years later, if she even sees this guy, she immediately
becomes resistant, and if anybody she doesn't know starts to take the
attitude with her that they might try to overpower her she becomes
totally non-compliant.

I, however, have ridden her thousands of miles, used her as a kids
riding pony, taught her to pull a cart and taken her half-way across the
country with me.  I didn't do this by engaging in a battle of strength
with her, in
fact, it took me over a year to finally convince her, "No, I am not
going to try to over power you."  And I have to tell people, "Please do
not try to over power her, it freaks her out and she becomes dangerous
to be around." Simply because she can think of nothing other than, "I
have to get away."

Many people who engage in battles of strength with horses that are
sufficiently determined to actually use all their strength to resist,
will then declare this horse to be "no good" and get rid of it.  Not me,
the ones with that kind of strength and determination are the ones that
I consider the most worth having.  It is the ones without it that are
"no good."

I have absolutely no idea what type of horse handler Mike is or what
methods he may use in order to gain compliance from those that you work
with, I just wanted to point out that you are wrong in your assertion
that somewhere along the line somebody has to have engaged in a battle
of strength with the horse and have won.

After all, men often comply with the wishes of women without ever having
engaged in a battle of strength with them, and I doubt it is because men
are too stupid to figure out that most of them could overpower a woman
if they tried.

And, incidentally, it is not being 90 degrees to the horse that allows
you to "over power" a horse, but rather the fact that you can surprise
the horse. After all, the horse is 90 degrees to you as well, and can
pull to
the side the same way you can, and outweighs you...or simply come to the
side when you pull...and be on top of you.  You can't push on a rope, so
in this situation there is NOTHING you can do to keep the horse from
trampling you.

Fortunately, for you, most of horses don't think along these lines, so
when you go to pull sideways on the rope, the horses you have dealt with
have not pulled sideways themselves and overpowered you or come sideways
more quickly than you were prepared for and crushed you.  But they can,
and I had one that would, at the first sign of resistance from you.

The groom of the great racehorse Kelso (five time Horse of the Year)
once put it perfectly.  He said, "He was the kind of horse that if you
wanted to go right and he wanted to go left, you go left."

As I said, the horses that will not let you overpower them are the great
ones.  And, as far as I am concerned, the only ones worth owning.

kat
Orange County, Calif.
:)



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