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RE: [RC] [RC] Kids, ponies and distance riding... Get a grip people - bobmorris

I really believe that the barrier should be set at the age
of consent! Keep 'em in deep freeze until then. That way we
are all safe from the little demons.

Bob

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID 

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Joe
Long
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2004 5:06 PM
To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RC] [RC] Kids, ponies and distance riding...
Get a grip people


On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 22:41:13 +0000, "Nancy Mitts"
<mitts_n@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

The height requirement for amusement rides has to do with
the fit of
the seat; safety restraints, regardless of age. So, yes, a
very short adult 
would not be allowed on either. I don't believe height is
truly a safety 
issue when it comes to riding though. 

It also has to do with the g-forces and physical stresses
that the more aggressive rides produce on the human body,
and that it is much easier to check a child's height than it
is to verify his age (parents wouldn't like having to bring
birth certificates along to Disney World).

And, age has little to do with skill and ability, as we
all know 
adults who
aren't too safe either. So, we're back to the legal age
liability. 

That's part of it, but I believe we should show some concern
for overly-young children occasionally being entered into
our events.

If AERC is going to use legal risk as a rationale for
setting a 
minimum age,
then anything under 18 is risky.  In some states that may
even be 21. 
Any other minumum age is arbitrary. 

All minimum ages are arbitrary, including the drinking age,
driving age, age to enlist in the Army, age to play Little
League ball, etc.  That is an unfortunate fact of life,
because we can't make rules tailored to each individual but
have to use some kind of norm.

Unless, you subscribe to the notion that life is more
valuable the 
younger you are, and then the age needs to be set at the
loss value 
our insurance would cover.

It is more valuable in the sense that a greater proportion
of the young child's life is still ahead of him.  Also, he
has less wisdom to make appropriate choices for himself.
There is the additional factor in our sport that very young
bodies are less able to handle the physical demands of
riding long distances without detriment to their devlopment.

At what age does our "moral responsibility" to have as safe
a ride as
possible end, Joe? 

I would phrase it that our responsibility to have as safe a
ride as is reasonable doesn't end at any age, but gets more
difficult the younger the rider.

At what age does an accident just become an accident?
Anybody who
rides runs the risk of being hurt, whether 8 or 14 or 18
or 48.

Indeed.

I do find it a bit odd that some are finding it so
horrible that we 
allow
young children to participate, even though they are
required to have an 
adult sponsor. Yet, no one seems to have a problem with
them being 
turned loose to ride alone at 14 with only 500 miles
competition experience.

Count me as one of those.  There is a VAST difference
between 5 and 14.

These days it seems anybody can sue anybody at any time for
any 
perceived
injury, and there really isn't any way to prevent it. I
don't see setting some 
arbitrary minimum age as any help at all.

Again, the lawsuit risk is the lesser reason to have an age
limit (simple humanity is the greater), but having a minimum
age demonstrates that we have considered the question and
established what we believe, in our best judgement and
experience, to be the MINIMUM age at which a child should be
competing in our events.  Doing so is in no way an
endorsement that all children of that age are ready to
handle it (and that should be stated along with the rule).

Some of our most famous rides have had a minimum age for
riders for decades, and one Region of the AERC (the
Southeast) has had a minimum age of eight years old for
riders at all SERA rides for over ten years now.  Those have
worked very well.

Some people have suggested ten or even twelve years old for
the minimum.  Those ages are certainly appropriate for some
of our events.  However, based in part on the SERA
experience, I personally favor a minimum age of eight years
old to enter an AERC sanctioned ride (with individual rides
still allowed to set higher limits as they see fit).

-- 

Joe Long
jlong@xxxxxxxx
http://www.rnbw.com




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Re: [RC] [RC] Kids, ponies and distance riding... Get a grip people, Joe Long