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Re: [RC] Preventing Treated Horses - Howard Bramhall

And, this I do not understand.  Why on earth is the information not
published in Endurance News when a horse dies at an endurance ride?  It does
give the appearance that we are trying to hide something when I don't think
this is the case.

Does it take a protest to be filed to get it in print?  This is sad if
that's the case.  After reading the last protest published concerning the
rider whose horse was out of control at an endurance ride, which resulted in
their punishment being a 6 month suspension and censure, you would think
someone who lost a horse at a ride would have a similar, or worse, sanction
placed against them.  But, as it turns out, a horse death doesn't seem to
warrant any discussion anywhere except on Ridecamp.  I do think we might
want to consider which is more important here.
Is a horse out of control more important than a horse who is no longer with
us?  Where are our priorities?

If AERC doesn't discuss this topic who will?  Do we really want to read
about it in horse magazines that normally don't even mention endurance in
their issues, but when those two horses died in Spain all of a sudden it's
in print everywhere, written by non-endurance writers.  At least if one of
our own were to write about it one would get a better understanding of what
really happened.  When a non-endurance writer puts this subject in print it
comes off as how horrible endurance is and why on earth would any horse
person want to try this sport?  Not good!  We need to tell all, not let
others, who know little about endurance, do it for us.


cya,
Howard



----- Original Message -----
From: <Stagg_Newman@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Bob Morris" <bobmorris@xxxxxxxx>
Cc: <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: RE: [RC] Preventing Treated Horses



Bob,

I believe and hope that there is a growing vocal group that will change
this based on
various email discussions that I have been reading.  Should be an lively
and I suspect heated discussion of this during the AERC open meeting.

Then the question is what action the BOD takes and follow-up.

Apparently there are files at the AERC office on recent horse deaths.
What I do not know is how useful these files are and if not useful why
not.

Stagg Newman




                     "Bob Morris"
                     <bobmorris@r        To:
<Stagg_Newman@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
                     mci.net>            cc:
                     02/13/2003          Subject:     RE: [RC]
Preventing Treated Horses
                     05:54 PM






Stagg:

You posted <<<One of the problems I believe we have is we do
not have good data on which
horses are being treated, where they were in the ride, both
in places, and in miles
into ride, which rides (LD, 50s, or 100s), etc.  As Jeanie
says, we just don't know.>>>

Again look at the cause not the effect. Why do we not have
the required data. Our past Boards have mandated the
collection of some of it but these requirements have always
been ignored. As you are no doubt aware I am one of those
"data freaks" who never get enough. I have asked numerous
times and the requests go by unheeded.

At each and ever call for additional information, opposition
is expressed that it would cause undue hardship on the ride
management and the vets. The exact parties that would
benefit the most from it. And then when a bit of information
is acquired it is suppressed and made not available for
analysis, again by those most likely to benefit.

Can this trend be modified? Perhaps but I am not holding my
breath.

Bob

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of
Stagg_Newman@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:16 PM
To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [RC] Preventing Treated Horses


Linda,

Thanks for the idea.   You may want to take a look at the
proposal of
Mathew MacKay Smith's
(HOF AERC Vet and rider and only person to have won both
Tevis and OD in
the same year
on the same horse).  Mathew also has a proposal to elimiate
racing
by creating broad categories.  I do not have a copy of his
proposal but
believe it was EN not too far back.

One key question is whether  a majority of the membership
would support
such a proposal.

I am not sure that eliminating placings would eliminate 90%
of treated
horses.  Frequently
the treated horses are not front runners but rather middle
of the pack
horses who just
are not right that day or who are unconsiously being
overridden for what
they can do.
 ( Heidi, you have vetted many rides, any thoughts on
whether most horses
needing treatment
are front running or further back?)

One of the problems I believe we have is we do not have good
data on which
horses are
being treated, where they were in the ride, both in places,
and in miles
into ride,
which rides (LD, 50s, or 100s), etc.  As Jeanie says, we
just don't know.

I have certainly seen cases where overriding has led to need
for treatment.
But I have also known
many cases where horses needing treatment were in the middle
of the pack
and were
not apparently being overridden.   In fact  at the  '96
World Championship,
where I was
on the Appeals Committe,  several of the  horses that got
into trouble were
the ones trying to make
the maximum time (19 hours I believe) i.e. at the back of
the pack.

So one thing we need is better data.

So my hypotheses is we still need to consider  the
combination of exit
checks and better rider education
to try to prevent treatmet of many of the horses that
"surprise us".  Some
days our horses may just
not be right but they cannot tell us or we do not know how
to listen well
enough.

Stagg




                     nevadaghostrid

                     r@xxxxxxxxx (L        To:
Stagg_Newman@xxxxxxxxxxxx
                     Eisele)               cc:
ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

                     02/12/2003            Subject:     Re:
[RC]
Preventing Treated Horses at Rides - Ideas Please
                     08:18 PM







Eliminate placings except for BC!!!!!!!!!!!
That would take care of 90% treated horses...people would
ride slower.
Do top 10 for BC only.

Linda

Linda Eisele & LS Lakota
hubby Allen & LS Iceman
2 great sons-Blue & Nick
canine Scooby, feline Tuna
nevadaghostridr@xxxxxxxxx
Reno, Nevada

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This message may contain confidential and/or privileged
information.  If you are not the addressee or authorized to
receive this for the addressee, you must not use, copy,
disclose or take any action based on this message or any
information herein.  If you have received this message in
error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail
and delete this message.  Thank you for your cooperation.
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 Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
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 Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

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=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
Subscribe/Unsubscribe http://www.endurance.net/ridecamp/logon.asp

Ride Long and Ride Safe!!

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Replies
RE: [RC] Preventing Treated Horses, Stagg_Newman