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RE: [RC] Preventing treatment (fwd) - Bob MorrisSusan: I have no argument with you except that we cannot get just the simple things accomplished with in the structure of the AERC how would we ever get something such as what you propose done? We cannot even get a simple report of why the horses were pulled let alone an in-depth study done. We even have a difficult time of realizing that our simple reporting requirements on horses condition is not complied with in an honest and above board manner. See my two part posting on the history of how we got to this point. Reporting mandated twenty years ago and still we have a problem. A simple problem! No reports! We had a Research Committee mandated. Read who dispensed with that! Disgusted! Bob. Bob Morris Morris Endurance Enterprises Boise, ID -----Original Message----- From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of suendavid@xxxxxxx Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 11:45 AM To: ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE: [RC] Preventing treatment (fwd) Very good points Terre. But you are starting to sound like me when it comes to data. It would be only as good as what is reported. Considering the complaints from the past, about it being to much of a burden on the Vets and ride Managers, how would you propose to obtain the data in a worthwhile way? It doesn't take that much time or effort to pull a blood sample from a horse being treated. Nor would it be all that difficult to send it in for analysis to verify whether electrolyte values are on average within normal levels in treated horses. Some of the other blood parameters are a little more difficult to obtain quickly without onsite equipment, but it just wouldn't be all that difficult to examine electrolyte levels, blood pH and so on. Maybe part of the sanctioning and entry process should include agreements by the ride manager, ride vet and participating riders that should a horse require treatment for metabolic problems, a blood sample will be pulled and sent in at AERC's cost. AERC does have research funds which are not currently be utilized, to my understanding. A simple panel, plus some relevant history, would go a long ways towards at least establishing a trend of where the problem area lies. As for getting the data analyzed, organized and disseminated---hell, I'll volunteer to do that, if AERC will allow me to publish results as case studies in the veterinary journals. There is one other point to be made here. While I do deplore any horse fatality there remains the fact we are working with very small numbers. One must look at the return on investment in this case. Is it practical to embrace a large scale effort for minimal returns? We are all aware that no matter the effort there will always be fatalities at endurance rides. Not caused by any untoward practices but just because living bodies die eventually. IMO, it depends on the focus of the effort. If one horse falls off a trail and you instigate a $30,000 study examining the geophysical components of the trail he fell off of, nope, probably not worth it. If, on the other hand, you examine the metabolic profiles of horses being treated at rides and thereby identify preventative measures that can be applied to all horses participating in endurance rides, that's money pretty well spent. More so when the inevitable attack comes form animal rights groups asking "what are you as a group doing to try to prevent horse deaths as the result of these competitions?" If the answer, is "nothing, because not enough horses died to be worth it", your goose is cooked. I believe a strong education effort would provide a greater return on investment than any rule, data acquisition or other preventative method as it would benefit all levels of rider. In addition it would be proactive rather than reactive. I agree absolutely. IMO, to date, AERC has not made nearly enough effort to push education nearly enough. Yes, there are a fair number of local endurance seminars, which may or may not be well attended or of good quality. None are to my knowledge organized with any direct assistance from AERC, other than the national convention itself. Why not? Why can't or doesn't the nat'l office help organize introductory or advanced endurance seminars? At the very least, AERC could maintain a list of qualified speakers available and willing to teach at seminars for interested parties. There are plenty of great people willing to talk for an hour or two if the logistics can be worked out, but a lot of organizers simply don't know they're around. Another point--for the past two years, I've offered to teach a full day, eight hour seminar in endurance nutrition and applied physiology in conjunction with the national convention, everything from basic concepts to advanced strategies. While everyone thought it was a great idea in principle, nothing has ever been done to get it rolling. Not to sound arrogant, but you can't tell me there isn't enough interest among the members---every year for the past five years, my seminars are *always* standing room only and the vendor halls become like a ghost town---you're telling me that a full day seminar wouldn't pull enough people to turn a profit AND disseminate a ton of rider education? Frankly, if AERC doesn't get on the band wagon and do it, I'll rent the lecture hall at the Silver Legacy myself next year and organize the damn thing for the day before the convention on my own. Anybody wanna bet I can make a profit doing it and pull a good sized crowd that'll go home a LOT more educated than when they arrived? Endurance News has had some good quality educational articles in it recently, especially those borrowed from Ray Geor, but you can't blame qualified writers for not wanting to give high quality articles away for free on a regular basis, when other publications *do* pay for articles. Even a token payment would pull in more good, education articles. AERC has the research budget and the by-laws that talk about education. Let's get with it, already. Enough ranting. Bob, I don't have Stagg's email address here with me---forward this to him, if you wouldn't mind. JMO. 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