Re: carbonates/rocks in elytes?

["Susan Garlinghouse" <suendavid@worldnet.att.net>]

>       The bottom line was IF you give a solution of electro-lytes,
>       they MUST be in IONIC - electrical form - all at the SAME TIME
>       in the CORRECT proportions ...
>        else the body (GI tract) will
>       draw on the external fluids to pull out the IONS that are
>       missing to make the solution balanced in the gut. This will then
>       cause the horse to go deeper into ion depletion and make the
>       problem worse.

This is true, although it applies to *any* introduction of a hypertonic
substance (including food) into the stomach.  This is in large part the
reason for the ongoing recommendation that any substance should be provided
during a ride in small and frequent doses.  It doesn't apply any *less* if
you are syringing one brand or type of electrolyte over another.



>       the same thing. Dosed heavy with the homemade rock mix late in the
>       ride and she quit until she drank and re-balanced. We pulled.
>       From then on I used the ENDURA-LYTES product.

OK.  But I would suggest that the problem was related more to the size and
infrequency of dosing over exact type of electrolyte mix used.


>
>       If you run a titration test on the homemade ROCK mixes they FAIL
>       to give the correct levels of CA++ and Mg++.

I respectfully disagree.  I have a fair amount of data available myself
where Ca++ levels are acceptable, and no statistical differences in
performance or tying up between groups of horses that received sufficient
amounts of the homemade mix versus a commercial brand.  The proof is in the
pudding in my book.  I agree that calcium bonded to acetate or citrate *is*
more soluble than calcium carbonate.  But as long as the horse is still
maintaining adequate plasma ionized calcium levels, I'm not sure we need to
throw the baby out with the bath water here.


>       MY experience with elyte related problems stopped when I switched
>       to the ENDURA-LYTES from Life Science. This recipe is still one
>       of the best. However, Dr Waldron believes the formulation requires
>       MORE Ca and K.

I'm just curious, when you changed brands, did you also change your dosing
protocol?  That can be a factor as well.


>       If the homemade stuff works for you  - OR you THINK it does
>       since you have not been in trouble, then go with it.  Suggest a
>       blood and urine test will prove the horse to be dehydrated and
>       exhibit an ion deficiency.

Our data is suggesting this is true, that many horses *are* both clinically
dehydrated and ion-deficient.  However, I have yet to see a clear
correlation between brands of electrolyte mix used.  I DO see a correlation
between dose and frequency.



>       Refer to DR Gayle Ecker DVM PhD studies.

I respect Gayle and her work more than you know and consider her research
integrity impeccable---so I know she wouldn't want anyone misled.  Gayle is
neither a PhD nor a DVM.  At the moment, she has a Master's like me.  Last I
heard, she has a lot of her work completed towards a PhD but has not
defended a dissertation.  She is not working on a DVM.  No less a researcher
for any of that.

>       Since the Acetate based products create an acid base when in
>       solution, I really want to add a neutralizer, thus many mix the
>       MALOX product. I use this in-place of water.

I'm not sure I would recommend that.  Calcium is absorbed much better in an
acidic environment.  By neutralizing the pH, you're losing a lot of the
additional bioavailability provided by using a calcium acetate source.  More
basic chem 101 and ion trapping concepts.  If you provide elytes in small
and frequent quantities, starting well before the horse actually "needs"
e'lyting, and when the stomach has something else in it, you shouldn't need
a buffer.

Regards,
Susan G