Re: Heartrates up to 220

[wsabg@t-online.de (Wolfgang Schwingenheuer)]

DreamWeaver wrote:

> snip  Now I
> generally go do a workout and keep their HR's up over 100 for 45 minute
> stretches.  Sometimes I don't have a great deal of time to train so I go
> out for an hour or hour and a half and we never stop trotting will we hit
> the pavement (on the road home).  I do try to get in at least one 3 hour
> ride a week, and 2-3 more shorter ones combined with their arena
> work.  (unless we're competing heavily, then everything changes)  I ride to
> complete miles but sometimes wonder not am I doing it wrong, but is there a
> better way.  Don't we all wonder that?

So what you describe above seems - for me - not to be a "real" training for your
horse. What you do is bit of conditioning when riding 45 minutes in the 100+
range. You also only do basic conditioning work when your are riding 3 hours -
that sounds more like LSD. With intervall training you can achieve a lot more in
less time. Those intervalls I described in my earlier post cost me just an hour
of time, this includes warming up, "shooting" intervalls and cooling down. With
this, the effect on the horse (the peak fitnes etc.) is much greater than it will
ever be by riding 3 hours.

> How many days per week do you train?

What is training? I don't call LSD real training as I don't call the work between
real training-units. When getting towards serious competitions I train (an that
is hard intervall or my "gold mine hill", as Tom said) twice a week plus I do (if
I find that time to make it, have to work a little bit ;-)) two establishing
rides (that is - in my case - riding for about an hour at hr's of 120-140 bpm).
Ninja is outside 24/7, so I don't have to worry that he is not doing his miles in
between.

> We do bursts of speed, however it's not on flat, because I really don't
> have a lot of flat.  It might seem flat but it's all gradual up or down.  I
> don't usually do 'straight' either since most of the trails I ride are
> single track and wind and curve all around thru the trees - but the horses
> can do flying lead changes and the way I ride thru there you definitely
> MUST wear a helmet!! <bg>  I have a couple of good 2 mile stretches where
> it is safe to gallop.  Even then we must be careful since there are so many
> motorcycles and mountain bike riders, and hikers, dogs and people target
> shooting.

> So would it be beneficial to go up really really steep hills and get their

> rates up for short bursts since on the hills that we can trot up we can't
> seem to get them up that high?  Whenever I ride with other horses that have
> HRM's on their rates are always up over 200 on these same hills.   I will
> try harder.

As I said earlier, the highest hr can not be achieved on the flat (or near to
that). The safest way is to use some good hills. But please don't go out and try
to beat the 200+-mark with the first attempt. Do it gradually, i.e. try do get
10+ each week. It's easier at the beginning, because once you are within the
range of let's say 210-220, there will not be a gain of 5 bpm after a workout.
Ninja, i.e., got his highest reading last year at the age of 12. It was only a
bit higher than the year before, 3 bpm.

> >In competition-ready fitness Ninja will do ~ 4 km in the flat at 130. Last
> >year in
>
> How many miles is 4 km?  (I know there is a webpage that converts.......)

Ooops, sorry, for me it's easier to talk about km, m and cm (and kg as a
weight-unit). One mile is ~1,6 km, that's why a 100 miler is called "160 km ride"
here in Europe. 1 km is 1000 m, 1 m is 100 cm. So a speed of 16 km/h is what you
call 10 miles/hour.

> snip
> >Use your hills. Do intervalls. And tell us about the results. You will have
> >an improvement within the first 4-5 weeks.
>
> Okay, I'll see how it goes.  I'll try and work both horses and see how they
> improve compared to each other.  Right now they are both pretty similar in
> their abilities and recovery rates.

I am very anxious to this.

> Just curious, Wolfgang, do you do very much walking for training?  Is that
> how you warm up, or do you warm up at a slow trot? I usually end up walking
> them home for 2 miles or more so they cool out this time of year (since
> it's below freezing at night), and since I've been riding them so much in
> the mud I have to walk them because it's dangerous to go down some of those
> hills any other way.

Again, what do call training? I like to say that "walking for training" is basic
work, had to be done before ever thinking about intervalls, high speed etc. Yes,
I do walking even now. But I use it as a part of my LSD after the winter-rest to
get the whole horse ready for more. I had some good results earlier, when Ninja
was 6 years old. I did lot of fast walk for 30 minutes to 1 hour three or four
times a week. I guess this gave him some of basic fitness he has now. BTW, we won
a regional championship that year, also because Ninja's very good recovery at the
VC. I remember my very first ride. It was about 60 km (37,5 miles ;-}) in a
moderate terrain. They had a group start and I rode together with some of the
women I knew from my time as a groom. Man, I really thought they were real
endurance riders. We started with a speed of 20 km/h (12,5 miles/h) and came into
the first VC. The women started to slosh water over their horses again and again.
We took a bucket and a sponge, washed Ninja a bit while the vet came to get his
pulse (different rules to those you have...). Everybody was really surprised with
Ninja having a 58. So we went out and had never seen the other riders before the
price giving (as we say here, they were days behind us ;-)). Today I know that
there are two types of endurance riders (no, please not another discussion about
this). But even here in Germany we have what I call endurance riders and
endurance racers. The riders are collecting miles (or km) and some of them are
riding just for fun. The "racers" are doing the longer distances (75 miles +),
starting at international level and they are those which are riding the National
Championship to win. And I like to say here: To win is to win, to be second is to
loose. I say this because as the "German Champion" it is way easier for you to
get sponsorship, you have a better reputation (sometimes <g>) etc. Yes, there is
a big difference between German and US endurance. Horses which reach a mark of
1000 km/season are very seldom seen. We do less rides, sometimes because there
are not enough good organised, long enough rides. Yes, we have a "donation" for
the horses which have the most km/year or km/livetime. But for me, i.e., the goal
is the National Championship and of course to be a member of the National Team.
So one has to be a racer to be serious, while "racer" does not mean to cripple
your horse in the frist season (also seen here, but I think over-there, too). No,
I don't want to blame the "riders". I have been one before I decided to go ahead.
My girl-friend, i.e., is a "rider". She will never ever think about doing 100
miles or finishing a 50 miler at higher speed. That's ok, because those "riders"
are the base. And there are some of them each year deciding to do more and there
are also some of the "racers" to make a step back.

> On some of the long downhills we
> trot the horses do get their rears under them but if we are moving out at a
> good speed they are definitely not level backed.  If we slow down they are
> able to get their rears under them even more, or if the hill is really
> steep (which also causes us to go slower).  Everything is really
> exaggerated when we are doing this and it is muddy, because in a way they
> are using the slippiness as we go down.  Whenever one of them comes close
> to 'losing it' they end up pretty much sitting down on their rears so I
> know they are utilizing the hindquarters well.

I told all of you about my opinion on the "leveled back" and no-one gave me a
proof of that is it possible. All I say here again is, as you say above, too,
that it is not possible for a horse being in motion downhill to have a leveled
back at a certain grade of the hill. End of discussion now, I think.

> Thanx,
>
> Karen
> in NV
> & Weaver....no no no don't tell her anything she'll make me work even harder!
> & Rocky :+)
>
> P.S.  Anybody else on RC planning on doing the 20 Mule Team 100 and having
> their horse tested in Dr. Fleming's Pride Project?  We have a team of 3 so
> far that are and need a 4th person!

Ok, I like to be your 4th person. Who is paying my flight? <vvbg>

Always a pleasure to share some knowledge with others,

happy trails

Wolfgang + Ninja 11
Germany