Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: clipping

["elfs" <elfs@c2i2.com>]

Hi Maggie,
  I live on the Mexican boarder in Arizona. We do lots of heat training,
it's dry heat, but hot rides like Tevis are no problem despite the lack of
humidity here, we also live and train at 6-9 thousand feet elevation. Most
years I clip in the late fall because it is warm here in the winter except
for one or two snowfalls (during which I blanket the horses at night) but
when the sun rises, the snow melts and it's not always necessary to leave
them on in the day. Some years ago I did experiment with the long hair in
training theory, it is said to increase the amount of blood vessels both in
the muscles and just under the surface of the skin, but discontiued, it's
just too much work to clean and groom and we do lots of interval training,
so short hair is best and most comfortable for the horses.  Dru Montemayor
:-)
----- Original Message -----
From: Maggie Mieske <mmieske@netonecom.net>
To: Bob Morris <bobmorris@rmci.net>; Tamara Jane Habberley
<tamarahabberley@lineone.net>; hn.heather <hn.heather@wanadoo.fr>;
<Eenergonzillen@aol.com>; <smw@sos.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 6:14 PM
Subject: RC: Re: RE: Re: Re: clipping


> And have I not heard from somewhere that it's a GOOD idea to
> train/condition in heat and humidity to build a horse's
endurance/tolerance
> for it?  Perhaps the extra coat will help with that?  Just thinking out
> loud...any comments??
>
>
> Maggie Mieske
> Mieske's Silver Lining
> 10601 S. Richards Rd.
> McBain, Michigan 49657
> http://www.netonecom.net/~mmieske
> mmieske@netonecom.net
>
> ----------
> > From: Bob Morris <bobmorris@rmci.net>
> > To: Tamara Jane Habberley <tamarahabberley@lineone.net>; hn.heather
> <hn.heather@wanadoo.fr>; Eenergonzillen@aol.com; smw@sos.net
> > Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: RC:  RE: Re: Re: clipping
> > Date: Thursday, March 16, 2000 5:51 PM
> >
> > As far as the "cooling out until dry" syndrome that every one is
involved
> > with. And as this regards "Clipping" to help the horse.
> >
> > I offer the following experience. My horse is out in the rain at this
> moment
> > and is wet. Temperature with chill factor a short while ago was 21f.
> These
> > horses have their coats to keep them from being to cold.
> >
> > Now, several years ago, (longer than I like to think, we adhered to the
> rule
> > that you never return to the barn with a wet  ( even damp) horse. It was
> in
> > the winter and we were very careful to cool the horses down and have
them
> > dry out while riding home. The trail went along the pasture fence for
> about
> > a mile. While we were walking home on our mounts, the rest of the herd
> > (about 6) ran like mad along the fence back and forth. Needless to say
we
> > arrived back at the barn with cool dry horses and the others were
> wringing
> > wet, steaming in the cold air, and sure to die. They also went over to
> the
> > stream that flows past the barn (in the wet weather) and drank their
fill
> of
> > cold water.
> >
> > Needless to say we did not try to "cool out" six wet steaming horses but
> we
> > did realize that these animals are not as dumb, fragile or self
> destructing
> > as we like to make them.
> >
> > If allowed to be in a semi-natural state, i.e. not kept in a drafty
stall
> > but allowed to move around, they will not suffer if warm and damp when
> > released.
> >
> > Another aspect of not clipping is the horse gets more acclimated to the
> warm
> > weather faster, when not clipped. After all the optimum temperature for
> > horses is in the 50's and 60's not any higher.
> >
> > Bob Morris
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tamara Jane Habberley [mailto:tamarahabberley@lineone.net]
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 3:16 PM
> > To: hn.heather; Eenergonzillen@aol.com; smw@sos.net
> > Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net
> > Subject: RC: Re: Re: clipping
> >
> >
> > yeah well
> >
> > > Yes ducky
> >
> > I  wasnt aware Renee was one of our avian friends ! She struck me as
> being a
> > liveley minded individual with the courage to buck the done thing trend
> ..
> >
> > > > Okay..horses grow long coats to keep warm in the winter, right???
> well,
> > if
> > > you cut all of that off, they have nothing to keep warm
> with....right???
> > >
> > > Not one of your most profound statements, Renee
> >
> > yes but a breathtakingly obvious one and one most my non horsey friends
> > make, along with;
> >
> >  'why does that rider that just won sit to one side, why do dressage
> horse
> > always look pissed off, why has the stallion that won shown meglamanic
> > tendencies ect' , oh the follies of those who havent been indoctrinated
> by
> > horsey culture!
> >
> > > but you only take blanket off when the horse is working, then you
> > > put it back on again, so, in principle the horse won't get cold.
> >
> > Or cut out the middle man and dont clip!
> >
> > Seroiuly there has been a lot of debate in the UK general equestrian
> press
> > on clipping, particularly from a lady called Marthe Killey Worhtington.
> She
> > breeds and competes endurance Arabs upto 100 milers over here. She
> belives
> > that NOT clipping and NOT rugging is benificial !
> >
> > The reasons ;
> >
> > 1. as rennee states the horse grows a coat for a specific reason, that
is
> ;
> > to keep warm 24 hours a day 7 days per week , we clip it for our
> convinence
> > on the say 2 hours per day 4 to 5 days per week we ride.
> >
> > 2. the coat acts as a natural wick , yes the horse gets hot but the
sweat
> > etc draws out through the coat.
> >
> > 3. rugs can adversly effect the horses movement particularly youngstock,
> > most if you watch them sort of shuffle in rugs even well designed ones.
> >
> > I have a friend who competes on un rugged , unclipped horses at there
> first
> > ride this season her mare vetted with a finish heart rate of 36 BPM so
it
> > obviously didint harm her any.
> >
> >  I clipped my cob in febuary this year to compete, he was really cold
> rugged
> > or otherwise so I let his coat grow back .  I did a 20 CTR ( okay I know
> > thats short to most you USA folks, but a good training ride for me) he
> was
> > hot, sweaty but vetted fine with the same heart  rate he always finishes
> on.
> >
> > > Uh, slick & shiny with mud you mean.  Where do you live where horses
> keep
> > so
> > > clean?
> >
> > Well there you go, its the owners convinience that you rug as its so
much
> > quicker to groom a clipped and rugged horse... I live in the West
> Midlands
> > so we never have mud, Ho Ho ( sort of an English joke as Manchesters the
> > only wetter city area). However I find using a rubber curry after my
> horse
> > has been in half an hour or so works fine. I dont worry about a sadlde
on
> a
> > wet back so long as its clean as to me its the same as a saddle on a
> sweaty
> > horse.
> >
> > > Have you ever tried conditioning a horse with a thick winter coat?
> Have
> > you
> > > ever tried drying off a horse (on a freezing cold day) thats sweated
> > heavily
> > > because of his shiny slick winter coat?  Try it sometime and you'll
see
> > why
> > > we clip competiton horses in winter!
> >
> > Try an airborne or thermatex rug for the stable, you can leave these on
> over
> > night and they literally wick the sweat of. I have to stable my horse at
> > night ( yard rule) hence reason I use a night rug as I feel it must be a
> > real shock to a horses sytem after working and warming up to be dumped
> into
> > a cold stable with nowt on.
> >
> > Sorry to go on so , but I really get irrate about the must do whats doen
> > sort of thing. At my present yard I've been subject to covert gossip as
I
> > actualy ( suck inbreath in horror here folks) CAME BACK TO THE YARD ON A
> > HORSE THAT HAD SWEATED WHILST RIDDEN , and BEEN SEEN TO BLOW! Apparantly
> > ruffling a hiar with sweat due to trotting  is considered an affront to
> most
> > people on this yard, yet not riding all week then competing in an event
> is
> > perfectly acceptable!
> >
> > Tamara
> >
> > p.s. the gossips covert as I flame more effectivly face to face!
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: hn.heather <hn.heather@wanadoo.fr>
> > To: <Eenergonzillen@aol.com>; <smw@sos.net>
> > Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
> > Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 10:00 PM
> > Subject: RC: Re: clipping
> >
> >
> > > Renee wrote:
> > >
> > > > Okay..horses grow long coats to keep warm in the winter, right???
> well,
> > if
> > > you cut all of that off, they have nothing to keep warm
> with....right???
> > >
> > > Not one of your most profound statements, Renee.
> > >
> > > > But, you can put a blanket on them...right???
> > > > But what if you take the blanket off???   They would freeze their
> > cabooses
> > > off....right???
> > >
> > > Yes ducky but you only take blanket off when the horse is working,
then
> > you
> > > put it back on again, so, in principle the horse won't get cold.
> > >
> > > > I just don't see the point of clipping a horse..  I mean,
personally,
> I
> > > think they look much nicer when their coats are all slick and shiny.
> > >
> > > Uh, slick & shiny with mud you mean.  Where do you live where horses
> keep
> > so
> > > clean?
> > >
> > > > I know that during the winter they get all fluffy and not so
> sleek...but
> > > who cares...
> > >
> > > Have you ever tried conditioning a horse with a thick winter coat?
> Have
> > you
> > > ever tried drying off a horse (on a freezing cold day) thats sweated
> > heavily
> > > because of his shiny slick winter coat?  Try it sometime and you'll
see
> > why
> > > we clip competiton horses in winter!
> > >
> > >
> > > Heather
> > > SW France
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > > Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
> > > Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp
> > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
> > Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >
> >
> >
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> > Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
> > Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp
> > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> >
>
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
> Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>