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Re: Horse too fast!!

>Nope. Simple ignorance.

Well, keep reading, Tom.  It's never too late.
>You can cite all such studies as you want--

In other words, please don't confuse me with facts?

>but I'm telling you that you will
>get a very obvious boost in performance, throughout a ride, by
>2 oz of a glycogen loading product every two hours.
Until you do so, you
>remain ignorant on this particular subject. It's a very simple
>experiment--many here have already done it. I passed the stuff out to see
>would happen--and made no definitive statements until the reports started
>coming in. Surely there is one elite academic in this group who also
>a pinch of courage and an ounce of curiosity.

Well, first let's deal with the subject we were *actually* discussing, which
was your claim that no fats are needed if sufficient carbos are available.
I did the math for you that this is not practical given the energy demands
of the endurance horse.  Apparently you have no answer to that, so let's
move on to the New and Improved need to check your memory,
Tom.  Several times in the past (including about two hours ago), I've said
that small amounts of carbos during competition are fine, and that I discuss
this in some detail during my nutrition lectures.  I realize it's more fun
to rant about a pinch of this and an ounce of that, but maybe you might
consider reading your mail as well.

>Did you hear me say anyuthing about 7 pounds of grain? Or are you
>extrapolating into your netherworld again. You have a very short attention

Actually, I was responding directly and relevantly I might add to your
out-of-context quote from Lon Lewis that fats are unnecessary if carbos are
sufficient.  Given the example I gave you, I demonstrated that carbos are
NOT sufficient unless you were feeding seven pounds.

>Well, you have some experience in one area. Tying up the problem? Sounds
>you haven't solved it.

No, my problem with this mare is that she gets silly on more than two pounds
of grain at a time.  I solved it by not feeding her more than two pounds at
one time, and made up the difference she needs in calories in corn oil.  Go

>Try up to 25 lbs of sweet feed. Plus an equal amount of grass hay--won the
>Japan Cup with that one.

And that relates to endurance

>Again, I'm not talking about grain in these discussions.

We're talking carbohydrates to supply "sufficient energy" last I checked.  I
gave you a very clear and common energy requirement example.  If you'd like
to do the math using a carbo powder, it still adds up to just carbos.
You're implying by quoting Lewis that fats are unnecessary.  Go ahead, show
me how to supply an extra 10 Mcals a day without either fats or a large
amount of grain.

>Then you can quickly prove me wrong in the field--you should be slavering
>do it. Eh?

Thank you, no.  I have no interest in involving myself with racetracks.  As
far as endurance horses?  Sure.  Meetcha at a 50 mile ride or better
anytime, big guy.

>I peruse 3700 papers a month and read, completely, about 300 of them. Not
>counting journals. My job is to deliver technology to my clients. The fact
>that you don't recognize science derived from other species suggests to me
>that your reading is very limited.

Actually, it indicates that I have a basic and very thorough understanding
of the digestive physiology of a number of different species---which is why
I know what theories might apply between species, and which don't.  I
wouldn't make the erroneous assumption that fats are utilized and relied
upon the same way between humans and horses any more than than I would
assume horses can tolerate moldy hay just because a cow can.

>I don't consider you a Poobah--just a follower--perhaps a Poobah in
>But tunnel vision is tunnel vision. And fear is fear--you're afraid I'm
>so you can't bring yourself to actually try it once and see what happens.

Yes, Tom, it's true.  I quake and quiver every time I see a bag of corn and
practically had a fit when my daughter suggested making sugar cookies for
Daddy.  Sheez.  Talk about ignoring numerous statements to keep dear your
own notions.  What was the word you used...?  Netherworld?

>So you're saying that the ingestion of high levels of
>carbohydrate and subsequent rise in blood glucose will not shut down fat
>metabolism in the horse???

Sure it will, I've been trying to tell you that for years.  But why would I
want to do that to an endurance horse?  You *do* understand that these
horses go for 50 miles or better, right?

>Your courage quotient went up 20 points. So why don't you fund yourself a
>quick and dirty experiment to prove me wrong once and for all? It'll cost
>$0 for the materials. Save up some of your altruism for more important

We do have some stuff in the works regarding fluid shifts as a function of
feed source and feeding interval.  We had other stuff planned, but KER is
working on a bunch of that right now, results expected this spring, so I'll
wait to hear their results.  If you're so hot to get some "real" research
done, why don't you supply the funding?  I seem to remember you bragging
about the plush new luxury cabin cruiser you bought for yourself last
winter, so I guess I can understand why you couldn't afford the airfare to
attend the ICEEP meetings.  Maybe you've recovered financially since then.

>Good for you. Now put your mind where your mouth is.

Already did, Tom.  That's why I'm one of the authors published *in* ICEEP,
not just waiting for it to show up on the bookstand.

Going to bed.  Always a pleasure, fella.

Susan G

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