Re: RC: Re: one of your type discussions on ridecamp now

[Tivers@aol.com]

In a message dated 12/15/99 9:40:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, CMKSAGEHIL 
writes:

<< < And we also go overboard trying to prove that they're unique in the 
mammalian world.   >>
 
 Each species is unique in the mammalian world.  There are certainly 
commonalities, but horses and cows don't work the same, either.

As far as muscle energetics are concerned, they work precisely the same.
 
  
 << The horse functions much like any other mammal, especially when it comes 
to athletic energetics. Keeping the gut moving in the horse is axiomatic, but 
not critical mass in terms of energy metabolism. I'm not talking about 
feeding sugar as the primary diet, just as a supplement during competition. 
Do you really think that this compromises gut motility? FFA/VFA production? 
All it compromises is the body's preference for fuel type during exercise.>>
 
 I think you are more correct in how the horse USES the energy than in how he 
gets it from the gut in the first place. >

No concern with how the gut delivers simple carbs--almost instantly.
 
> Actually, if you reread my post, I didn't say ANYTHING about the carbs 
compromising the gut.  I was just trying to keep some focus on the fact that 
the gut HAS to work to keep the horse healthy, and that the horse WILL create 
a great deal of energy if that gut is maintained full of good quality 
roughage. >

Beside the point. I read your post carefully. Your thrust was that endurance 
horses can't survive without VFAs providing the primary energy for the sport. 
You're wrong, I think. Nothing wrong with quality roughage--just as long as 
it doesn't get in the way of quality energy provision. 

> What I'm trying to stay away from here is the impression that somehow we 
can rocket fuel our horses, >

Yes, that is your phobia. Goes against the grain.   

>and that what they eat normally is, in your own word, "sludge."  That 
"sludge" as you choose to call it is an important part of the picture in the 
equine athlete, and the impression that we are going to do it all with carbs 
just isn't so.  Furthermore, to cause the body to "prefer" carbs to the VFA's 
DOES set one up for the hills-and-valleys of energy availability.>

If carbs are available, the body always uses them instead of fat and protein. 
Carbs block the use of secondary fuels. Fat in the diet also blocks the 
absorption of carbs--that's why we don't feed sludge on raceday.

. 
 > As you said yourself about carbs--"timing is everything."  Hence, since 
the exercise is ongoing, one needs to maintain the steady state VFA 
production, EVEN if one supplements with carbs,>

Nope. A glucose crash will stop the horse dead in his tracks, no matter how 
much sludge is sloshing away in the gut. That's how the discussion 
started--the "bonked" horse. Very likely that horse had a gutfull of fiber in 
transition to FFAs and VFAs. 


 >and one must supplement with carbs in such a way that they are truly a 
supplement and not a shut-down of that steady production of energy going on 
from the hindgut.>

Without carbs, the hindgut energy provision is completely useless. It will 
not keep the horse alive, much less move it forward. Carbohydrate, glucose or 
glycogen, is the preferred, and indespensible, fuel for every organ in the 
body. Even the heart, which loves VFAs, FFAs and triglycerides, dies without 
carbs.
 
 >Heidi 
   >>

ti


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