Re: [RC] [RC] [RC] Hunting Season - Nancy Mitts
Your arguments may hold water some in regards to federal land, I don't know.
Although I suspect the hunters probably pay as much in federal taxes as any
other users, on top of hunting licenses. So, they would want a tax refund
for the times of year THEY can't hunt. Each individual would consider it no
more your land than theirs. That's a price we bear for pooling resources.
Some of my money will go towards things I don't want, other people will help
pay for the things I want. In areas of the country where a lot of the land
is relatively small pockets of state owned land surrounded by more
urban/suburban areas, hunting & fishing licenses pay the way. It's the only
revenue being COUNTED, because other recreational impact on surrounded
business isn't being quantified. In government & politics, money talks. It
always has and probably always will. Unfair as it may be, it is the reality
of the structure within which we must work. We're simply not being counted.
We must find a way to be if we want ours needs taken seriously.
No, public lands aren't closed to public use during endurance rides and bike
races. I was denied permission to hold a ride on Missouri Department of
Conservation land because we might run over someone fishing. (I'm not
kidding.) Because the land isn't closed, if we are perceived as too
"dangerous" to co-exist with other users, permits are denied. We DON'T pay a
fee on MO land. We're not charged for a permit, and there is no equine
campground (where we ride) to reserve. We bring the department nothing but
more work (in their eyes), with no countable return. This does get under my
skin, because in MO they get more money (in total) from the sales tax than
hunting licenses. But, I repeat, there's no way to count what comes into the
state/community from horse user's sales taxes. When you figure (as they
do)that a large part of that sales tax money comes from people who never use
the state lands & stack up what's left against the amount paid by the
licenses, we just don't have much clout. To be fair, the forester I work
with at Huckleberry hasn't been hard to work with, as long as he doesn't get
complaints from other users. In some states, the wildlife management areas
are funded totally by hunting & fishing licenses & fees.
The national forest charge is (I think) $30 + a % of entry fee? for an
organized ride. It costs nothing to just go there and ride. I suspect that
endurance rides & riders bring in an incredibly tiny amount of income.
From: Lif Strand <lif@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [RC] [RC] Hunting Season
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 09:40:20 -0700
At 09:23 AM 11/17/02, Nancy Mitts wrote:
Count the money. Hunters and fisherpeople contribute a significant
quantifiable revenue source. In some, if not most states that's what funds
the administration of public lands.
OK, so that means those who pay the most get to use public lands and those
who apparently pay less don't? If that's true I wonder what would happen
if hunting revenues had to support public lands *fully* for the months of
the year that they use the land. I doubt hunting revenues bring in that
If this situation was reversed would it work (this is a method I use to
check lots of arguments): Do public lands get closed down to outside use
when an endurance ride or a bike race takes place over it? Fees have been
paid, after all. If someone would point out that endurance ride fees for
public land use are much less than hunting revenues, then I'm thinking that
if might makes right ("count the money") then we should really count the
money. Do hunting revenues bring in more to maintain public lands than
*other tax dollars*? If not, how is it fair that other financial
supporters of public lands cannot use those lands part of the year? If so,
should hunters be allowed to monopolize public lands because they pay more?
If this should be the case, then I don't want to hear one more peep out
of one more person ever about Ted Turner's buying up of land and using it
just the way he wants - after all, he's doing just what the hunters are
Personally, if the answer is yes to the above, and I should be content to
not go into the National Forest or ride over BLM land during hunting
season, I want a refund of my tax money. I'm not a hunter and don't see
why I should pay to support their recreational use of MY land!
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