Ridecamp: Re: [RC] Digestible Energy (DE) vs Protein

>I need some clarification on Digestible Energy (DE) vs >Protein content of
various foods.  If a particular >ingredient has a high protein content, but
a low DE, is >that good?  Do I then disregard the amount of protein >the
total ration will have and only concentrate on DE?  >Knowing what we know
about high protein and the load >it puts on a horse, I'm a bit worried about
this ratio.

The two don't have a direct connection, ie, you can't say that a high
protein feed always has a high energy content or vice versa.  Protein does
provide energy, usually around the same range as a typical carbohydrate, but
there are enough exceptions to the rule as to not make it a rule at all (if
that makes sense, which it probably doesn't).

So, no, you don't disregard the total protein of a ration and only
concentrate on DE---anymore than you would judge a horse by his feet and
disregard the hocks.  Gotta pay attention to the big picture.  To balance a
ration, you'll have to use a spreadsheet program or spend a lot of time with
a calculator, and work out a combination of feed that provides both protein
and energy at the right level for your needs.

> As with sugar, aren't there various types of protein as >well?  "Hot"
protein and "cold" protein?

Not that I know of, although there are higher and lower qualities of protein
source, depending on the amino acid profile and how well those match the
requirements of the particular animal.  In general, the protein source with
the higher lysine content is usually the overall higher quality protein.



> Also, I read somewhere that vets and nutritionists are >now re-thinking
the statement that growing youngsters >shouldn't get too much protein.

Long since put to rest.  It's not that protein directly causes DOD problems,
it's that excess protein causes rapid increase in body mass without
concurrent growth in mineral deposition (bone tissue), thus the DOD lesions.
You can cause the same lesions with a ration that's moderate in protein but
high in energy; or interestingly, by a moderate energy ration that's too low
in protein.  At the bottom line, the problem mostly has to do with mineral
imbalances.



>They have free access to bales of hay which is very low >in any kind of
nutrients this time of the year, so I'm not >factoring that into the sum.
When the grazing gets >better, I will adjust the rations again.

Unless you have an analysis to verify that, you might be surprised.  There's
a lot of nutrition even in straw.

>BTW, I'm mixing my own feed now because I want to >get away from bran.
I've found that a certain label will hit the market, be all the rage, then
slowly you see bran creeping in as a "bulker" which means the ratio is all
upset.

Not necessarily.  Look at the guarenteed analysis tag (hopefully you still
have this info in SA).  It should tell you crude fiber, crude protein, fat
content, calcium and phosphorus minimums and maximums (use the max number
for calcium, the minimum number for phosphorus) and usually vitamins A,
maybe E.  It also has a list of ingredients.  Hopefully you can find a brand
where they list specific ingredients, and not just general terms like
Roughage Product.  If the calcium-phosphorus ratio is within a normal range
and so on, the addition of bran isn't a big deal, assuming it's not the
number one ingredient.


> Tags get conveniently amended so that you can't work out what the ratio
is.  I find working it out this way much better as I have control over what
goes into the feed.

True, just keep in mind it's actually not all that easy to catch all the
little details that go into balancing a total ration from scratch.

>My last question - scoop weight for each ingredient is >weighed and
although the total weight of the total ration >is fairly low, the bulk
worries me.  The chopped alfalfa >weighs next to nothing but is very bulky -
is this a >problem?

Depends on how much they're eating total.  Most horses at maintenance can't
won't eat more than about 2.5% dry matter of their body weight daily total.
Growing horses, lactating mares and hard working horses can eat more, tops
is usually around 3-3-5% dry matter.  If your horses are finishing it, then
it's apparently not a problem.

Susan G



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