Ridecamp: [RC] Digestible Energy (DE) vs Protein

I sent this to RC on 19 August, but I think it might have got lost in the heated debates that raged at that time.  To make it endurance related - I have 2 current endurance horses and one baby for the future.

I think this should be directed at Susan and / or Lisa?????

I need some clarification on Digestible Energy (DE) vs Protein content of various foods.  If a particular ingredient has a high protein content, but a low DE, is that good?  Do I then disregard the amount of protein the total ration will have and only concentrate on DE?  Knowing what we know about high protein and the load it puts on a horse, I'm a bit worried about this ratio.

For example : my ration contains the following :
Hominy Chop (a maize by-product) = 11% (110 gr/kg) Protein; 0.05% (0.50 gr/kg) Calcium (Ca); 0.55% (5.50 gr/kg) Phosphorus (P); 14 MegaJoules (MJ) DE/kg
Chopped Alfalfa = 15% (150 gr/kg) Protein; 1.20% (12 gr/kg) Ca; 0.21% (2.10 gr/kg) P; 8 MJ DE/kg
Cold pressed sunflower seed cake = 30.50% (305 gr/kg) Protein; 0.41% (4.10 gr/kg) Ca; 1.10% (11 gr/kg) P; 13 MJ DE/kg

I've set up a spreadsheet to calculate the various ratios of Ca to P and I balance to 1.5, which is within range.  Also, the DE is within range for growing, maintenance and training.  As can be seen from above, the pressed cake is very high in protein, but relatively low in DE.  I've been feeding the cake in addition to bought food and the horses all stay sane, which leads me to think that it is the DE and not the protein that is the deciding factor.  As with sugar, aren't there various types of protein as well?  "Hot" protein and "cold" protein?  Also, I read somewhere that vets and nutritionists are now re-thinking the statement that growing youngsters shouldn't get too much protein.  I think it was on thehorse.com, but will have to make sure.

They have free access to bales of hay which is very low in any kind of nutrients this time of the year, so I'm not factoring that into the sum.  When the grazing gets better, I will adjust the rations again.

BTW, I'm mixing my own feed now because I want to get away from bran.  I've found that a certain label will hit the market, be all the rage, then slowly you see bran creeping in as a "bulker" which means the ratio is all upset.  Tags get conveniently amended so that you can't work out what the ratio is.  I find working it out this way much better as I have control over what goes into the feed.

My last question - scoop weight for each ingredient is weighed and although the total weight of the total ration is fairly low, the bulk worries me.  The chopped alfalfa weighs next to nothing but is very bulky - is this a problem?  I can only feed twice a day and the bigger horses get 1.9 kg per sitting, but the volume is pretty great.  I don't want to go to alfalfa pellets, as that also contains bran and some maize as binding agent (can't feed maize as Ibn's brain unhinges).  Fortunately all the horses eat slowly and will take up to 30 mins to finish their feed.  Now in winter, I also soak their feed in hot water so that they can get some water in them - they tend to drink sparingly in the cold.

I went to the archives (27 Oct 1997, Lysine and Protein supplements) and read the very interesting answer about lysine from Susan.  I'm not sure what the lysine content of the oil cake is, but having read the answer, should I not rather switch to soy bean meal so that I don't have to supplement lysine?

Please give me something to worry about - it's our off season and with very little riding, I don't have much to worry about - shoes are off, they're all behaving themselves, no snotty noses or strange cuts and bumps ......... ;-))

Smiles
Kristene


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