Ridecamp: Re: [RC] Bioengineered Endurance Athletes?

Jon,
   Fascinating stuff.  Now, when my cutting-horse neighbors ask me why Arabs
are better at endurance,  I can add "They have More Mitochondria" and leave
it at that!  Thanks for that info.  Got any links where I can go and learn
more about this?
Debbie



----- Original Message -----
From: <Jon.Linderman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Debbie T." <risingwind@xxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Lynne Glazer" <lglazer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
<ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: Re: [RC] Bioengineered Endurance Athletes?


>
> Debbie,
>
>
> Good practical questions for which I wish I had a simple answer. As a
basic
> scientist I ammore like Phil Donahue, raising more questiosn than I ever
> answer in my career.  In some ways the TB industry uses someone, I believe
> a "nicker" who looks at the potential of the mare/stallion cross.
>
> Because slow and fast fiber types, or cell types, are FAR more comlicated
> than just mitochondria, there are many genes involved for the various
> proteins of a muscle fiber that determine type.  Fiber type has been
> simplified to pacify the masses.  We have in fact perhaps identified not
> only slow and fast but w/in muscle up to 2 slow types and 4 fast types,
and
> hybrids of these as well.
>
> Scientists have debated the "limiting" factor in endurance prformance and
> there are essentially 2 camps: 1 the ability to use oxygen, or 2 the
> ability to deliver oxygen.  The ability to use oxygen depends upon total
> volume of mitochondria in muscle.  As mitochondria are the same in any
> muscle the more you have the more oxygen you can consume and the more
> energy you can derive to sustain muscle contractions. The delivery of
> oxygen is predicated largely on cardiac ouput or the pump capacity of the
> heart.  Now, there is fairly clear evidence that at low intensity (approx.
> 60-70% of maximum) that the ability to maintain performance is based upon
> the ability to consume oxygen.  As intensity increases then delivery
> becomes a larger factor.  So answering which is limiting depends on how
you
> ask the question.
>
> So no I don't think that you can negate Dads contribution.  However, the
> sustaining power, or the enduring capacity of an animal , might be more
> heavily weighed to mom than Dad.  You also have to consider biomechanics
of
> gait, quality of bone, hoof, connective tissue strength, and many other
> things, not the least of which is "heart" as it refers to will.  Thats all
> beyond me.  My world has been inside the fiber for many years.  This world
> is poorly understood and overly simplified by popular press, but I do find
> it interesting that just like Pee Wee football, the horse industry as a
> whole places much of the weight of genetic success to the stallion.  I
tell
> my students that if you are a great endurance athlete, make sure to thank
> your mom.
>
> Before I left my position at Ohio State I was looking into a more
> discimminating method of looking at muscle proteins, know as myosin heavy
> chains (MHC).  This form of fiber typing has been used in rodents and
> humans and we have seen very subtle changes with training, gender, age,
> hormones, etc that are not reflected by classical "fiber type" changes
> first used in the 70's.  I was looking into characterizing MHC in various
> distinct breeds such as arabians when compared to say racing quarter
> horses, which is the classic sprinter vs endurance runner. Some work has
> been done, but it is very limited.  I theorized that arabians aren't just
> suited to endurance due to cooling mechanisms inherent to their desert
> breeding, smaller lighter frames, larger heart and lungs, quality of hoof,
> eye sight, etc........but that their MHC quality and mitochondria quantity
> allow them to endure activity longer.  Alas, 2 years ago I told
> administration to sing that famous Johhn Paycheck song and I left to teach
> at a small college, play w/my kids, and enjoy my horses.........someone
> else can solve the great mysteries of muscle, I want to ride and be Dad.
>
> Jon K. Linderman, Ph.D., FACSM
> Assistant Professor of Health and Sport Science
> University of Dayton
> 300 College Park
> Dayton, OH 45469-1210
> Voice:(937) 229-4207
> FAX: (937) 229-4244
> jonlinderman@xxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.udayton.edu/~linderma
>
>
>
>
>
>                       "Debbie T."
>                       <risingwind@socke        To:
<tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <Jon.Linderman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>                       t.net>                   cc:       "Lynne Glazer"
<lglazer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
>
<ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>                       08/19/2002 02:15         Subject:  Re: [RC]
Bioengineered Endurance Athletes?
>                       PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jon:
>   You said:
>
> By the way the gene for the protein that makes the structure know as
> mitochondria, which is where we use oxygen in the muscle cell, is
> apparently a maternally linked gene.  Thus, great endurance capacity of
> muscle comes from mom........not pops!
>
> From this statement, do you mean that the gene for selecting for
> muscle-fiber type (i.e. slow or fast twitch muscle fiber) is on
> mitochondrial DNA, (which is only expressed in the female line) therefore
> when making breeding decisions, it's more important to choose a MARE that
> is
> endurance proven than a STALLION that is endurance proven?  Would that
mean
> that the stallion could be just any conformationally desireable animal of
> the breed of choice (say, Arab :-)  as long as the mare was a good
> endurance
> horse, and you would be more likely to get a foal with the right
> muscle-fiber phenotype, therefore a more promising prospect?
> Debbie Trimble
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Jon.Linderman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <tprevatt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>By the way the gene for the protein that
makes
> the structure know as
> mitochondria, which is where we use oxygen in the muscle cell, is
> apparently a maternally linked gene.  Thus, great endurance capacity of
> muscle comes from mom........not pops!
>
>
> Cc: "Lynne Glazer" <lglazer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
> <ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 8:20 AM
> Subject: Re: [RC] Bioengineered Endurance Athletes?
>
>
> >
> > As one of "them" who has done work witrh muscle fiber type changes for
> most
> > of my career let me say that recent publications of changes in muscle
> fiber
> > types are really nothing new.  We knew since the 70's that rodent muscle
> > could undergo dramatic changes from fast to slow with various
> interventions
> > that caused the muscle to be chronically recruited.  These interventions
> > showed us the envelope to which a muscle can be changed.  A practical
> > application of this in the training of mammals: dogs, rats, and humans
is
> > that prolonged periods of low intensity activity alters the fiber
> > characterisitics of the muscle to be more slow twitch.......we have
> called
> > this LSD long slow distance training.
> >
> > It should be cautioned that slow twitch refers to the contraction speed
> of
> > the muscle, which normally goes hand in hand with the ability to use
> oxygen
> > to sustain energy use for prolonged periods of time.  However, as we
age,
> > muscle lose high power faster twitch fibers and actually become slow
> twitch
> > in nature making us more susceptible to falls etc.  However, in  this
> case
> > the aged slow twitch muscle changes actually results in a decreased
> ability
> > to use oxygen and we see reduced work capacity in the elderly.  In space
> > w/the lack of gravity muscles get smaller (atrophy) and actually become
> > faster twitch which causes them to fatigue more rapidly. In otherwords,
> > contrary to popular myth we have know for a long time that muscle can
> > undergo dramtic changes in many environments.
> >
> > Carl Lewis can not become frank shorter, and vice versa.  For those 2
> young
> > to remebver frank shorter won gold and silver in the marathon for the
US.
> > They have a genetic window that endows them with fiber characterisitcs
of
> > their muscles.  They can have changes through training, but w/out very
> > severe, even painful procedures, it is nearly impossible to take a
turkey
> > breast (white; fast twitch muscle) and make it into a turkey leg (dark;
> > slow twitch muscle).  By the way the dark comes from the rino containing
> > proteins that bind oxygen in the muscle: myoglobin and the cytochromes
> that
> > are involved in the use of oxygen.  A turkey can walk all day, but can
> fly
> > but a few seconds before becoming exhausted.  A migratoryt duck or goose
> > has dark breast meat due to its slow muscle capable of flying form
Mexico
> > to Canada.
> >
> > By the way the gene for the protein that makes the structure know as
> > mitochondria, which is where we use oxygen in the muscle cell, is
> > apparently a maternally linked gene.  Thus, great endurance capacity of
> > muscle comes from mom........not pops!
> >
> >
> >
> > Jon K. Linderman, Ph.D., FACSM
> > Assistant Professor of Health and Sport Science
> > University of Dayton
> > 300 College Park
> > Dayton, OH 45469-1210
> > Voice:(937) 229-4207
> > FAX: (937) 229-4244
> > jonlinderman@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.udayton.edu/~linderma
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                       Truman Prevatt
> >                       <tprevatt@mindspring.        To:       Lynne
Glazer
> <lglazer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >                       com>                         cc:
> ridecamp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >                       Sent by:                     Subject:  Re: [RC]
> Bioengineered Endurance Athletes?
> >                       ridecamp-owner@xxxxxx
> >                       durance.net
> >
> >
> >                       08/19/2002 08:53 AM
> >                       Please respond to
> >                       tprevatt
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There was an article in Scientific American about a year or two ago on
> > this work and some others. They believe they can change the muscle types
> > either way.  This would produce either super sprinters or super
> > endurance type muscles. One approach is to alter the genetic composition
> > of the muscles on a one time basis to change the structure of the muscle
> > fiblers. The IOC can throw all it's durg testing out the door since
> > there is nothing to test for.
> >
> > A brave new world?
> >
> > Truman
> >
> > Lynne Glazer wrote:
> >
> > > Is the horse of the future a transgenic beast? <g>
> > >
> > > Scientists create 'endurance' mouse
> > >
> > > May lead to wonder drug for distance athletes
> > > By Kate Tobin
> > > CNN Sci-Tech
> > >
> > > BOSTON, Massachusetts (CNN) --Mighty Mouse lives, and the "new age"
> > > version is downright buff.
> > >
> > > Researchers say they have created a transgenic mouse with muscles like
> > > a marathoner, capable of enduring rigorous exercise for extended
> > > periods of time.
> > >
> > > While so far the research has only been conducted on mice, scientists
> > > say they expect the techniques they've developed to treat the mouse
> > > muscle will also work on humans. Doctors say the discovery may one day
> > > lead to new treatments for people who are bedridden or have
> > > degenerative muscle disease, and could prove to be a wonder drug for
> > > endurance athletes like long distance runners or cross country skiers.
> > >
> > > Bruce Spiegelman and colleagues at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute
> > > identified a biochemical called PGC-1 that operates as a molecular
> > > switch, converting so-called "fast-twitch" muscle, which is strong but
> > > tires quickly, into high-endurance "slow-twitch" muscle.
> > >
> > > "PGC-1 appears to be the switch, or a major component of it, that
> > > enables your body's muscles to adjust to the demands being put on
> > > them," said Spiegelman. "Understanding how this system works could
> > > make it possible to develop a drug to manipulate this system."
> > >
> > > Muscle is made up of a combination of different types of fibers.
> > > Endurance athletes train long and hard to build up slow-twitch muscle
> > > fibers, called Type I fibers, which are long and lean and can keep
> > > pumping for long periods of aerobic exercise. Sprinters or
> > > weightlifters, on the other hand, have muscle rich in fast-twitch,
> > > Type II fibers. These muscles are bulkier and stronger but tire
> quickly.
> > >
> > > Further studies
> > >
> > > To create the endurance mouse, Spiegelman's group bioengineered PGC-1
> > > into mouse muscle tissue. They expected that it would promote the
> > > development of cellular power plants called mitochondria, which fuel
> > > the growth and development of slow-twitch muscle fiber. But they were
> > > surprised to find that PGC-1 appeared to be converting Type II
> > > fast-twitch fibers into Type I slow-twitch fibers.
> > >
> > > The muscle itself actually changed color, taking on a reddish hue
> > > characteristic of oxygen-rich tissue. Further, in an endurance test at
> > > a Texas laboratory, the bioengineered muscle turned out to contract
> > > efficiently two and a half times longer than regular muscle.
> > >
> > > Spiegelman cautions that there is still five to 10 years of work to be
> > > done before PGC-1 based treatments will be available.
> > >
> > > The research is published in this week's edition of the journal
Nature.
> > >
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