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Re: Barefoot horses and naked riders



I tried so hard not to respond to this, I really did, especially after Kat's
very thoughtful and reasoned post. (Everyone, go back and read what Kat
wrote.) I just can't leave circuitous logic hanging unanswered, however.


on 11/29/01 4:02 PM, Tracey Ritter at tracey_ritter@yahoo.com wrote:
>>If you haven't, you might consider doing so, as it might help you get a
>> better understanding of what our goals and objectives are.

I replied:
>Can you condense it here and enlighten me?

Tracey replied:
>I'll do my best.  We have hoof boot links for members to browse at
>their convenience.  We talk about hoof boots on our list, the
>different kinds there are available to choose from, as well as the
>pros and cons that go with each.  We discuss when we've had to use
>them, under which circumstances or trails, etc.  In other words, it's
>not a foreign topic that is avoided at all costs, rather one that is
>discussed freely at any given time.

I remain unenlightened as to what the goals and objectives are.


>> Quantitive information. Perhaps a before and after exam showing a
>> comparison of factors like heat, pain and inflammation. I'm not a
>> clinician, so I don't know what tools or tests are available, but I
>> want something more than observation. Blood work to measure levels of
>> substances that are produced when the animal is in pain or has an
>> injury. I read recently that there is an effort underway to create a
>> fecal exam to measure the amount of an enzyme or some such that is
>> created when a horse is in pain.
> 
> There you go!  Now *that* is something I can work with.  I haven't
> run across any tests that are readily available to do at a ride, and
> perhaps that is merely indicative of my lack of experience in this
> area.  Yes, it *is* possible to do thermographic scans that would
> show the circulation and overall heat distribution in a horse's legs
> and hooves.  There are a couple of pictures of that type of scan that
> I've seen, demonstrating the circulation in the legs of a horse that
> had three hooves unshod and one shod.  Very interesting picture.
> Barring having fancy equipment at a ride, Vets rely on regular, ol'
> palpitations to indicate pain, trot-outs, etc.  If anyone out there
> is familiar with other tests that are do-able at a ride, please let
> us know what they are, as I - for one - would be very interested in
> finding out more about this technology.  The fecal exam you speak of
> sounds very interesting as well... do you have any links or names of
> researchers (or even the vet school doing them) that you could share
> with us?

Repeat, I am not a clinician. (Are you, Tracey?) I am however well-versed in
statistical and critical analysis of data for business purposes. I can
decide whether or not a study is well-structured, but first there has to be
a study. I want science. A planned evaluation does not need to be conducted
at a ride, in fact, I would prefer that it not be so as to not subject the
test subjects to potential discomfort of traveling great distances with the
weight of a rider while not being provided hoof protection.

I don't want human (however expert) observation. I want quantitative data.

BTW, I read about the fecal exam as a sidebar in EQUUS.


I wrote:
>> There's a bank of knowledge out there about gait abberations (as
>> well as pain and inflamation) caused by hoof and leg pain attributed
>> to poor footing and hoof wear. So yeah, by choosing not to provide
>> appropriate hoof protection, the rider is most certainly knowingly
>> putting their horse into needless danger.

Tracey replied:
> Well, that's where I have to disagree with you here.  Yes, there are
> gait abberations, etc., when associated with a bad trim, bad shoeing
> job, trying out a new set of shoes or hoof boots, etc.  But my
> Heavens, that doesn't mean it's intentional!

By hoof wear I meant "wear of the hoof" as in "wearing the hoof down" as in
"what can happen when the hoof is not adequately protected against the
conditions", not hoofwear (hoof protection). I was referring to the bank of
knowledge that exists that causes horse owners to be nice to their animals
and use hoof protection.

By misunderstanding and in attempting to defend your position you have
unintentionally helped prove my point. Gait abberations, pain, inflammation,
etc. associated with bad farrier work are unintentional by the owner. Not
providing adequate hoof protection is a very deliberate, intentional
decision by the owner/rider. The owner/rider has a moral obligation to
educate oneself as to the potential consequences of the decision. Having
made such a decision, the owner/rider has a moral obligation to not subject
the animal to additional suffering once the owner/rider realizes that the
decision was ill-advised.


Tracey wrote:
> It's called LIVE AND LEARN, right?

This suggests that it's OK to try things willy-nilly regardless of the
potential harm it can cause the animal. I don't agree with that approach. Do
you run out and try the newest de-wormer on the market without investigating
how it was tested? I don't.


> How many of us have gone through endurance training and riding without ever
> having made a single mistake?

Not all mistakes are created equal, Tracey. There are mistakes of ignorance,
mistakes of "you'll only know if you try it and the consequences aren't
gooing to be too bad", and mistakes of "all the information available points
in the opposite direction of the decision that the owner/rider has made and
the owner/rider decision has potential to cause the animal to needlessly and
greatly suffer." That's a dumb mistake plain and simple.


> My God, talk like this only isolates people
> and drives them away from this group, knowing there is no way for
> them to realistically live up to levels of such perfection that the
> other members seem to enjoy....

It's pretty easy. Just don't disregard the obvious. Isolation is a choice.

Heated debate of ideas is not flaming. Personal attacks are. Unusual ideas
need to be scrutinized. If the ideas are valid, they will survive the
scrutiny. 

Deanna (Ohio)




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