Re: caused enough trouble, yet?!

["John Bass" <jbass@beattynv.com>]

Jim, I really don't think that Cindy deserved that type of lambasting. You
have to admit that the qualifications for the NC are a little diluted. There
is no doubt in my mind that there were some great horse/rider teams that
attended this years NC and from what I've read it was a great success but
basically it was just another endurance ride, less LD riders, with the name
National Championship attached.
I do agree with Jerry Fruth that competing against your own weight division
is attractive but the qualifying criteria stinks. It is unfair to the
lighter weight divisions. Some rides may have 60 featherweights and only 6
heavyweights riders. Under the present criteria, about 8% of the
featherweights qualify and 80% of the heavyweights qualify on a particular
ride. If the criteria was changed to something like the top 25% of the
weight division qualified on a particular ride it would cull out some of the
people who go to a National Championship just to complete. Like me.
IMO the AERC should sponsor the NC ride at their expense. They should set
the criteria. And (God forbid) offer prize money. You'd may be surprised who
might show up.
John Bass
Beatty Nevada

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Holland" <lanconn@tds.net>
To: <guest@endurance.net>
Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2001 3:11 PM
Subject: RC: caused enough trouble, yet?!


> Cindy..
>
> Your record speaks for itself.  However, IMHO, you need to broaden your
> perspective a little.  First, the membership voted to have a National
> Championship Ride.  The qualifications are evolving a little right now,
> since the RM was trying to make the ride profitable enough to stand on
> its own.  As participation increases, so will the qualifications.  Just
> like the ROC this year.
>
> This is not the HMERC (Hundred Mile Endurance Ride Conference), it's the
> AERC....and 100 milers are in the minority.  If you want only 100 mile
> rides, then suggest you start a HMERC....but you better have some funds
> to support it, because the LD riders and the 50 milers are the ones who
> provide the financial support so you can have 100 mile rides. I have
> NEVER done a one day 100 mile ride. (I have done a 75, and multiday 100)
> If I NEVER do one, doesn't bother me at all. I have a great deal of
> respect for those of you who love 100 miles rides, but I would rather
> compete on a sound horse who does well in 50's than a marginal horse in
> 100's and maybe potentially ask him to compete beyond his capability and
> injure him.  My little guy means a lot to me....horses are not
> "disposable".  He would give until there is nothing left...in fact give
> it all. It's MY responsibility to see he doesn't give everything.  I'm
> not into "push him till he fails, then cash him in and find another
> one". Does that make me less of an "Endurance Rider" than you? A "second
> class citizen" just because I don't do 100's? I'm not saying I never
> will...I hope to do OD, at least.....and maybe Tevis if I can afford
> it....but only if I feel I can do it on a sound horse.
>
> I have a challenge for you. You come down to North Georgia, bring the
> BEST horse you got, and ride MY trails in the Cohutta Wilderness for a
> day under MY conditions at MY speed...and we'll SEE who has the BEST
> horse in the "heat, hills, and humidity". It's all relative.  There are
> MANY factors involved in deciding who's the "Best". Trail conditions,
> weather, humidity, heat, sand, mud, hills, rocks, etc. Heather's horse
> Red "smoked 'em" at the PAN AM...but didn't do all that well at the
> NCR.  Some horses are great on a "flat track", but just can't handle the
> hills.  The rider is also a factor. If you can get off and run with your
> horse, or tail him up a hill, etc....all are contributing factors. The
> playing field is NOT level....by DESIGN...which is what ENDURANCE is all
> about!
>
> Like many Limited Distance Riders, and AERC members who prefer 50 mile
> rides, I ride within my horse's capabilities and my own. I am not big on
> proving who is "THE NATIONAL CHAMPION"...too many variables. I finished
> 12th Lightweight in the 50 at the NCR and am PROUD of it.  Better horses
> and riders than Sunny and I DIDN'T FINISH! I FINISHED and I WON....and
> we had a great time! I only have ONE Endurance Horse...but in MY eyes
> he's a National Champion.  I'm as proud of him as if he hand won the
> ROC. Doesn't that count for anything?  Doesn't that meet the
> qualifications for a National Championship?  Remember our motto? "To
> Finish is to Win"?  IMHO, you've lost sight of that.
>
> I have no problem with LD miles included in qualification for NCR...for
> now...but we need to raise the bar in future years. Why don't you try
> one? You might like it. There were some damn good horses in the
> 100...who not only didn't win, but didn't finish.  You have my PERSONAL
> invitation to attend next years NCR. Come down early, stay at my place
> in North Georgia, and I will haul your horse to the ride...we'll crew
> for you. Might even be convinced to pay your entry fee just to prove my
> point....and we'll cheer for you to WIN and be the 100 Mile National
> Champion.
>
> The NCR moves around the country and gives everyone the opportunity to
> compete in a "class" ride, including us 50 mile "poor cousins".  Give it
> a chance....it's a ride for all Endurance Riders and an inspiration for
> the Limited Distance Riders to move up.
>
> And...why do you say the membership is not excited about the NCR? Most
> comments on Ridecamp have been positive. I've seen very few negative
> comments.....and most of those from people who didn't attend.
>
> Jim, Sun of Dimanche, and Mahada Magic
>
> guest@endurance.net wrote:
> >
> > Cindy Collins sunsetrim@hotmail.com
> > My friends say I've caused enough trouble, but since I'm a teacher of
> > emotionally disturbed adolescents, I have a higher than average
tolerance
> > for chaos and dissension!
> > So, I just have to add a couple of closing commentsquestions about the
> > storm I helped to generate over our national championship events.
First,
> > I have a question/clarification.  Somewhere in this discussion, someone
> > said something about LD miles being used to qualify for the  NC.  Did I
> > understand that correctly?  Would someone clarify?  Secondly, I want to
> > tell the people who lamented their lack of 100 mile rides...look in the
> > mirror.  You, as riders, need to demand 100 mile rides and then attend
> > them.  No ride manager wants to go to all of the extra trouble, and it
is
> > a lot of trouble, to put on a 100 miler and then have 4 entries!  Become
a
> > mentor for folks who want to try a 100 and are afraid.  Ask for elevator
> > 100s to get new folks to try the longer distance.  However, there is one
> > other thought...when the ROC  (and I don't mean to say I think it was
the
> > end all...there were problems, it was just the best thing I've ever seen
> > for head to head competition among the greatest horses and riders the
> > sport had to offer) was at its peak, riders demanded that 100 milers
were
> > held and many new 100s were created, JUST SO PEOPLE COULD QUALIFY FOR
THE
> > ROC.  It was held in that much esteem.  I haven't heard a single person
> > say, "Oh, let's put on more 100s so we can qualify for the National
> > Championship ride."  However, within a week of the annoucement that the
> > ROC might return, one of our local ride managers promised to put on a
100
> > miler in conjunction with our 50s so people could get qualified for the
> > ROC.  People can argue until they are blue in the face, but it won't
> > change the reality that AT THIS POINT, the membership is not that
excited
> > about the AERC National Championship.  The name recognition thing that
has
> > been brought up over and over is the best example of making that point.
> > Also, as I've said privately, the toughest thing about this discussion,
is
> > that it's impossible to discuss this issue without hurting people's
> > feelings and that  is not the point at all.  It is not necessarily
> > "personal agenda", either.  I won a national championship in 1990 under
> > one of the many newer versions of that event.  I never completed the
ROC.
> > I don't know if I ever will, but that doesn't change my feelings about
> > what a championship should look like.  I really do appreciate everyone
who
> > has responded, both pro and con, because it's not about me or my
opinion,
> > it's about what we envision as a true National Champion horse/rider
team.
> > Thanks for listening.  Cindy Collins, AERC #176
> >
>
>
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