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As far as the "cooling out until dry" syndrome that every one is involved with. And as this regards "Clipping" to help the horse. I offer the following experience. My horse is out in the rain at this moment and is wet. Temperature with chill factor a short while ago was 21f. These horses have their coats to keep them from being to cold. Now, several years ago, (longer than I like to think, we adhered to the rule that you never return to the barn with a wet ( even damp) horse. It was in the winter and we were very careful to cool the horses down and have them dry out while riding home. The trail went along the pasture fence for about a mile. While we were walking home on our mounts, the rest of the herd (about 6) ran like mad along the fence back and forth. Needless to say we arrived back at the barn with cool dry horses and the others were wringing wet, steaming in the cold air, and sure to die. They also went over to the stream that flows past the barn (in the wet weather) and drank their fill of cold water. Needless to say we did not try to "cool out" six wet steaming horses but we did realize that these animals are not as dumb, fragile or self destructing as we like to make them. If allowed to be in a semi-natural state, i.e. not kept in a drafty stall but allowed to move around, they will not suffer if warm and damp when released. Another aspect of not clipping is the horse gets more acclimated to the warm weather faster, when not clipped. After all the optimum temperature for horses is in the 50's and 60's not any higher. Bob Morris -----Original Message----- From: Tamara Jane Habberley [mailto:tamarahabberley@lineone.net] Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 3:16 PM To: hn.heather; Eenergonzillen@aol.com; smw@sos.net Cc: ridecamp@endurance.net Subject: RC: Re: Re: clipping yeah well > Yes ducky I wasnt aware Renee was one of our avian friends ! She struck me as being a liveley minded individual with the courage to buck the done thing trend ... > > Okay..horses grow long coats to keep warm in the winter, right??? well, if > you cut all of that off, they have nothing to keep warm with....right??? > > Not one of your most profound statements, Renee yes but a breathtakingly obvious one and one most my non horsey friends make, along with; 'why does that rider that just won sit to one side, why do dressage horse always look pissed off, why has the stallion that won shown meglamanic tendencies ect' , oh the follies of those who havent been indoctrinated by horsey culture! > but you only take blanket off when the horse is working, then you > put it back on again, so, in principle the horse won't get cold. Or cut out the middle man and dont clip! Seroiuly there has been a lot of debate in the UK general equestrian press on clipping, particularly from a lady called Marthe Killey Worhtington. She breeds and competes endurance Arabs upto 100 milers over here. She belives that NOT clipping and NOT rugging is benificial ! The reasons ; 1. as rennee states the horse grows a coat for a specific reason, that is ; to keep warm 24 hours a day 7 days per week , we clip it for our convinence on the say 2 hours per day 4 to 5 days per week we ride. 2. the coat acts as a natural wick , yes the horse gets hot but the sweat etc draws out through the coat. 3. rugs can adversly effect the horses movement particularly youngstock, most if you watch them sort of shuffle in rugs even well designed ones. I have a friend who competes on un rugged , unclipped horses at there first ride this season her mare vetted with a finish heart rate of 36 BPM so it obviously didint harm her any. I clipped my cob in febuary this year to compete, he was really cold rugged or otherwise so I let his coat grow back . I did a 20 CTR ( okay I know thats short to most you USA folks, but a good training ride for me) he was hot, sweaty but vetted fine with the same heart rate he always finishes on. > Uh, slick & shiny with mud you mean. Where do you live where horses keep so > clean? Well there you go, its the owners convinience that you rug as its so much quicker to groom a clipped and rugged horse... I live in the West Midlands so we never have mud, Ho Ho ( sort of an English joke as Manchesters the only wetter city area). However I find using a rubber curry after my horse has been in half an hour or so works fine. I dont worry about a sadlde on a wet back so long as its clean as to me its the same as a saddle on a sweaty horse. > Have you ever tried conditioning a horse with a thick winter coat? Have you > ever tried drying off a horse (on a freezing cold day) thats sweated heavily > because of his shiny slick winter coat? Try it sometime and you'll see why > we clip competiton horses in winter! Try an airborne or thermatex rug for the stable, you can leave these on over night and they literally wick the sweat of. I have to stable my horse at night ( yard rule) hence reason I use a night rug as I feel it must be a real shock to a horses sytem after working and warming up to be dumped into a cold stable with nowt on. Sorry to go on so , but I really get irrate about the must do whats doen sort of thing. At my present yard I've been subject to covert gossip as I actualy ( suck inbreath in horror here folks) CAME BACK TO THE YARD ON A HORSE THAT HAD SWEATED WHILST RIDDEN , and BEEN SEEN TO BLOW! Apparantly ruffling a hiar with sweat due to trotting is considered an affront to most people on this yard, yet not riding all week then competing in an event is perfectly acceptable! Tamara p.s. the gossips covert as I flame more effectivly face to face! ----- Original Message ----- From: hn.heather <hn.heather@wanadoo.fr> To: <Eenergonzillen@aol.com>; <smw@sos.net> Cc: <ridecamp@endurance.net> Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2000 10:00 PM Subject: RC: Re: clipping > Renee wrote: > > > Okay..horses grow long coats to keep warm in the winter, right??? well, if > you cut all of that off, they have nothing to keep warm with....right??? > > Not one of your most profound statements, Renee. > > > But, you can put a blanket on them...right??? > > But what if you take the blanket off??? They would freeze their cabooses > off....right??? > > Yes ducky but you only take blanket off when the horse is working, then you > put it back on again, so, in principle the horse won't get cold. > > > I just don't see the point of clipping a horse.. I mean, personally, I > think they look much nicer when their coats are all slick and shiny. > > Uh, slick & shiny with mud you mean. Where do you live where horses keep so > clean? > > > I know that during the winter they get all fluffy and not so sleek...but > who cares... > > Have you ever tried conditioning a horse with a thick winter coat? Have you > ever tried drying off a horse (on a freezing cold day) thats sweated heavily > because of his shiny slick winter coat? Try it sometime and you'll see why > we clip competiton horses in winter! > > > Heather > SW France > > > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. > Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net. 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