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Re: RE: Re: RE: Different milage buckets - end of topic

Oh Bob, where have you been all my life? A man who THINKS. (makes it better
that you think as I do). Thanks for defining the problem so succinctly and
putting your finger on the real culprit....EGO
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Morris <>
To: navion <>; David LeBlanc <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 8:43 PM
Subject: RC: RE: Re: RE: Different milage buckets - end of topic

> Welllll! Here I go again to set the scene for a real flaming that will no
> doubt become a real life cremation!
> The American Dream is to denigrate and to dilute every thing they set
> hands on to the base of mediocrity. We at one time expected to educate our
> children to the best of their ability. I now see our schools being dumbed
> down to the lowest common denominator.
> I see the expectation that many people want to do the same with endurance
> riding. In the beginning, and this is supported by the original By-laws,
> definition of endurance was set at 50 miles or more. This was not done on
> the spur of the moment. The capability of doing 100 miles in one day was a
> goal that was really up in the then known limits. 50 miles in 12 hours was
> an attainable goal for some persons, but not all persons, at the time it
> established as the lower limit for distance to count. It was considered a
> goal that could be attained with a lot of hard work and a modicum of luck!
> Now, with the improvements in conditioning, training, nutrition, saddles
> tack, shoeing and the use of extensive crews, not to mention the easier
> trails being laid out, 50 miles is quite easily attainable by the rankest
> beginners.
> So what do some persons desire, make it easier to become an endurance
> and lower the statutory basement to 25 miles. I call this DUMBING DOWN.
> Now realize, I am riding a lot of LD these days for many reasons. Among
> are young, just beginning horses and old, getting worn out body. (been off
> to many of those young horses too). I AM NOT DOING ENDURANCE RIDES WHEN I
> RIDE LD!  But I have just as much fun, train just as hard, drive as many
> miles to rides and do not bitch about not getting my miles recorded as
> endurance miles. I am afraid that egos are at the bottom of this entire
> question.
> Bob Morris
> Morris Endurance Enterprises
> Boise, ID
> -----Original Message-----
> From: navion []
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 1999 8:55 PM
> To: David LeBlanc
> Cc:
> Subject: RC:  Re: RE: Different milage buckets - end of topic
> >
> >Since this is obviously a divisive topic, I've responded to Cindy
> > Don't want to engage in flame-wars here, and I don't see much room for
> >productive discussion.  I see things one way, and others obviously don't.
>    Hi David,
>   I don't usually respond to posts but I guess tonight I have the time.
> This LD question has been hotly debated on ridecamp for years. It also
> up at AERC meetings.   I am a 5 year member with 3000 miles now. I still
> an occasional LD as well as mostly 50's and a few 100's.
>    I see a real split occuring here in Calif with LD rides.  I was taught
> they are for training and fun and not a race. But in S. Calif the ride
> managers are calling them a race openly and giving out placements and
> awards. They are encouraging racing and saying it is the way of the future
> for many riders. Then I travel up north and those rides are refusing to
> announce placements and loudly speaking out against any racing at that
> distance.
>   I know this may not sound the same as your mileage bucket theory but it
> quite similar.  The underlying question is "Should LD rides be a shorter
> version of endurance rides with the same values."   A good comparison is
> 50 to 100 debate.  If 100's are true endurance rides then what is a 50.
> Should 50's get credit?  Why do they lump 50 mileage with 100 mileage.
> Since they do this why shouldn't they lump 25 mileage with 50 mileage??
> Again it is all by definition of the sport by our elected leaders.
>     I don't have the answer to this and I haven't even formed my decision.
> Originally I was in the 50 miles minimum camp. But maybe that is an ego
> thing.  Now I can see Donna SS's point about the growth of the sport and
> way it is going.   Randy E's vision coming true.
>    But as a side note: I now feel that 25 is not much of an endurance test
> for most horses, not belittling LD rides which are a lot of fun, but a
> with the horses I have worked with. I can see that 50 is near the minimum
> level to be a real test and can see the point of the original founders 27
> years ago that thought only 100's should be called endurance. A real test
> but within the abilty of a  trained horse.  And that is why most of us
> this sport, for the challenge?
> Just some thoughts, no answers.  Maybe it isn't important, I had a great
> mile training ride today over beautiful country, it was fun. That is what
> is all about.
> Jim Mitchell
> Calif
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