Re: Insurance

[Nancy DuPont <Htrails@Earthlink.net>]

>Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:39:20 -0700
>To: "Kirsten Price" <splash@dakotacom.net>
>From: Nancy DuPont <Htrails@Earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: Insurance
>
>YOur liability Insurance (the kind of insurance you buy to keep someone
from sueing you if they get hurt on your horse or on your property or at
your event) or anyone's in the state of California will not cover a person
who gets injured while riding a horse. Like your horse, or a borrowed horse
at an event or schooling show or trail ride.  Major medical as you say is
medical insurance that you or I buy to cover our medical bills in case we
get injured.  BUT let's say as the insurance companies do, that they
"assume" anyone riding a horse that gets injured in a fall will be covered
by their medical and major medical insurance (like blue cross or shield or
Lifeguard).  Then that person learns she can never have children because her
pelvic was broken in two places.  That her rotator cup is so damaged that
she loses full use of her left arm.  T hen she sues you for the damages.
Your LIABILITY insurance will defend you, but if you lose, let's say a
settlement of about $80,000 against you, your insurance will not pay because
they do not cover a rider on the horse.  It may be cheaper for them to pay
off, but if there is an exclusion in the coverage they are not obligated to
pay off and you are stuck with the bill.  Such is the case in California. We
are all stuck with the bill!!! I am not talking about just event coverage
and I am not talking about "major medical" since we both agree that major
medical covers only "me" if I get hurt.  To reduce your confusion I will say
it this simply in your words you say: "Liability insurance is for when I do
something
>>stupid (negligent) and someone else gets hurt. The insurance company would
>>then pay out to the injured party and/or defend me in court if I got sued.
>What I am saying is that your insurance company will NOT pay out to the
injured party if you get sued.  It will pay to defend you if you do
something stupid or negligent but it will NOT pay out if you lose, IF THE
PERSON WAS RIDING YOUR HORSE.  
>tHERE is an exclusion for riders in your liability coverage.  If you need
this clarified please ask me again.  But any insurance company in the state
of California will admit to this and what is so sad, is we all think we are
covered and we are not.
>
>At 06:52 AM 9/24/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>Your first word is the word "it" and I can't tell what "it" refers to.  Does
>>it refer to major medical, liability or some other kind of insurance?
>>
>>Major medical NEVER covers someone else, it only covers the insured and has
>>nothing to do with "event" coverage. The only other kind of insurance
>>covering medical bills under any circumstances (that I am aware of) is
>>*liability* insurance.  In order to collect on liability insurance, the
>>insurance company has to believe that whomever they are paying has a
>>reasonably good chance of winning a negligence suit (against the person who
>>bought the liablity) insurance in court OR that it's cheaper to pay off than
>>to find out.
>>
>>It sounds like you are talking about "event" coverage. I have never heard of
>>event coverage that pays out in situations of pure accidents (meaning no one
>>is at fault). But, if there is such an insurance that covers other folks at
>>the ride regardless of negligence or fault... I think that's great.
>>
>>Honestly though, I think getting such an exclusion repealed is going to be a
>>*HUGE* uphill battle.  The reason is that the riders have purposely and
>>willingly accepted the risk. The risk of a rider getting hurt is much, much
>>higher than for anyone else at a ride and if you get such an exclusion
>>repealed, I can foresee that the insurance rates for ride managers would
>>skyrocket.
>>
>>Your last sentence really confuses me though.  It sounds as though your are
>>talking about liability insurance there. My liability insurance doesn't
>>cover my medical expenses for ANYTHING, nada, nothing.  That's not what
>>liability insurance is for.  Liability insurance is for when I do something
>>stupid (negligent) and someone else gets hurt. The insurance company would
>>then pay out to the injured party and/or defend me in court if I got sued.
>>
>>My major medical insurance covers me (and me only) 24/7.  The only normal
>>exclusions in major medical are when *some other insurance covers*.  The
>>most common example is workman's comp.  If workman's comp covers you at
>>work, then your Major Medical will not pay out for a work-related accident.
>>
>>I guess you can tell I am still confused.  So, maybe you can explain further
>>what exactly this insurance is that you *expected* to cover the rider, but
>>does not. Is it your own personal major medical insurance?
>>
>>Kirsten
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Nancy DuPont <Htrails@earthlink.net>
>>To: Kirsten Price <splash@dakotacom.net>
>>Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 10:49 PM
>>Subject: Re: Insurance
>>
>>
>>> It would not cover you if the rider on your horse or at your event is
>>> injured.   Ride Managers can cover injuries of any other kind.  Insurance
>>> companies have put an exclusion to their insurance to NOT cover a rider.
>>> Any other kind of injury, such as horse stampeding a spectator, ride
>>> particpant falling out of a truck.  Covered.  Insurance companies say that
>>> medical insurance will cover the rider should he fall and break a bone or
>>> get permanently paralyzed - no coverage.  honest.  We have Phoebe Hearst
>>> Cook working on it. She is using her $$ to introduce a bill to California
>>> Senate to remove the exclusion.  Call your insurance company and get the
>>> same surprise I did!! No coverage for riders at the event.  Of course, in
>>> Endurance, riders are riding their own horses.  That is their horse, no
>>> liability involved, right?
>>>
>>> At 08:57 PM 9/23/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>> >I assume you are talking about liability insurance here? I believe that
>>is
>>> >the kind of coverage that is referred to with IAHA, and the kind of
>>> >insurance RMs would typically carry, if any, for the ride itself. Some
>>folks
>>> >earlier were talking about regular major medical insurance... which would
>>> >indeed cover the rider's medical bills assuming the rider has such
>>> >insurance.
>>> >
>>> >Kirsten
>>> >
>>> >----- Original Message -----
>>> >From: Nancy DuPont <Htrails@Earthlink.net>
>>> >To: <Ridecamp@endurance.net>
>>> >Sent: Thursday, September 23, 1999 8:21 PM
>>> >Subject: RC: Insurance
>>> >> >
>>> >> >Did you know that here in California, without exception, that even if
>>you
>>> >> have insurance, THERE IS NO COVERAGE THAT COVERS THE RIDER ON THE
>>HORSE.
>>> >NO
>>> >> INSURANCE CO. WILL PAY OFF ON A CLAIM AGAINST YOU IF THE RIDER GETS
>>HURT
>>> >AS
>>> >> IN FALLING OFF THE HORSE.  They will, however, pay for your defense and
>>if
>>> >> you win the case, no payoff is necessary.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >At 11:25 AM 9/23/99 EDT, you wrote:
>>> >> >>In a message dated 9/22/99 5:16:30 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
>>> >> >>gmcgraw@amtech.com writes:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >><< As a RM and rider I would offer two suggestions regarding
>>insurance
>>> >> >> coverage.
>>> >> >> *  IAHA as part of the membership fee provides $1,000,000.00  of
>>> >> >> personal coverage for accidents caused by your horse. The insurance
>>> >alone is
>>> >> >> worth the price of membership.
>>> >> >> *  IAHA  also offers very reasonably priced insurance for a ride. I
>>> >> >> manage a ride here in Texas and we use the insurance. Luckily we
>>have
>>> >not
>>> >> >> had any claims but the real value may come some day if we do have an
>>> >> >> accident.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I would encourage you to contact your local IAHA clubs about these
>>> >benefits
>>> >> >> or call IAHA directly (303) 696-4500. Remember insurance is only
>>> >expensive
>>> >> >> until you have a filed against you then it become cheap! >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>AERC has a perfectly good $1,000,000 insurance policy in place under
>>> >which
>>> >> >>RMs can buy coverage.  It costs $110 per one-day ride.  I consider
>>that
>>> >quite
>>> >> >>reasonable.  It only becomes a bit of a burden when it costs $550 for
>>a
>>> >5-day
>>> >> >>multi-day ride.  I wish more RMs would use AERC's policy; the premium
>>> >could
>>> >> >>go down if more would use it.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>Barbara
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>> >> >>Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
>>> >> >>Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp
>>> >> >>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> Nancy DuPont, Executive Director
>>> >> Heritage Trails
>>> >> 1350 Castle Rock Road
>>> >> Walnut Creek, CA 94598
>>> >>
>>> >> Our Mission: To preserve and protect trails and answer the question,
>>> >"Where
>>> >> are you going to ride your horses, and where are you going to keep
>>them."
>>> >> Telephone (925)937-7661 FAX (925) 943-7431
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>> >> Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
>>> >> Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp
>>> >> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> Nancy DuPont, Executive Director
>>> Heritage Trails
>>> 1350 Castle Rock Road
>>> Walnut Creek, CA 94598
>>>
>>> Our Mission: To preserve and protect trails and answer the question,
>>"Where
>>> are you going to ride your horses, and where are you going to keep them."
>>> Telephone (925)937-7661 FAX (925) 943-7431
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Nancy DuPont, Executive Director
Heritage Trails
1350 Castle Rock Road
Walnut Creek, CA 94598

Our Mission: To preserve and protect trails and answer the question, "Where
are you going to ride your horses, and where are you going to keep them."
Telephone (925)937-7661 FAX (925) 943-7431


=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.    
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp   
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=