Re: RC: Snaffle Snaffoo

[Jasmine Cave <toppere@siu.edu>]

I did not, I said that the full sheek and ring bits were developed by
babylonians and assyrians(BC) then lost popularity only to gain it again
during the enlightenment as dressage type riding increased in popularity as
did light breeds. This was a starter bit for dressage/high school horses.
In spain this was always common practice and they took it with them to the
parts of the south/central america that they had control of. The cowboys
than came on the scene and borowed the spanish style. Starting in a snaffle
or bosal than working up to spade.
jasmine- still not done a "real" anthropologist yet.
At 02:44 PM 6/4/99 -0400, Linda_Merims@ne.3com.com wrote:
>
>
>
>Jasmine Cave <toppere@siu.edu>  said:
>
>
>> I ride [saddleseat] in a port pelham
>> because it is what my horse is comfortable in. I started him in my dressage
>> double bridle but he tries to move like a dressage horse, he does not get
>> the fold in his knees like I want. A bit does not do this I know, my hose
>> does it and he gets confused when using the same bridle for different
>> events that ask such a similar question to the horse. As to how legal it
>> is, I believe it is fine. I am not showing in saddleseat shows, but at
>> Apaloosa shows in which there may be only 2-10 competitors in the one
>> english pleasure class ofered.
>
>That makes sense.  I have a similar situation where I don't
>want to confuse my horse by mixing bits.  We went to a
>J.P. Giacomini dressage clinic.  JP knew my horse was
>an old English Pleasure saddleseat horse and had me
>buy a D-ring Waterford for his first all-snaffle experience.
>He went well in the Waterford, learning all sorts of back-rounding
>and jaw yielding cues from it.  I've been toying with the idea
>of trying to ditch my trail riding Mullen-mouth pelham for
>the Waterford as we go for longer distances where equipment
>simplification becomes more of a virtue.  But I worry about
>screwing up all those on-the-bit dressage responses he's
>learned when I use the more long-rein, relaxed, pick-your-own-way
>riding style we use on the trail.
>
>[For those who don't know, a "Waterford" is one of the newer
>variations on a snaffle that have shown up.  It looks like,
>frankly, a really fat chain bit.  It is made up of big,
>round, smooth ball-type links.]
>
>I was curious as to just what the current state of the AHSA
>rules is with respect to pelhams in the various saddleseat
>disciplines, so I went through the last rule book this
>morning.  The actual rules depend on which breed you're
>riding and which division you are riding in, but in a hefty
>number of the divisions the pelham *is* still allowed.
>(Morgans are one of the few that 100% ban it unless you
>are riding in a forward seat or "hacking" saddle.  Boy,
>that must be an old rule!)  This is a case of where
>style and common practise no longer match up with the
>actual rules.  Although a pelham *is* legal, you almost
>never see them except in smaller shows.  Entering a
>ring at a class A show in a pelham is a sure way to
>get yourself immediately labelled "hick".  Not fair,
>really, it is just that the pelham has gone the same
>way as the true "English *pleasure*" horse.  In the
>40's and 50's when pleasure was pleasure, pelhams were
>often seen in the ring.
>
>
>> I must still say that the snaffle has always
>> been used in the western set. I have the destinction
>> of being the only person in town that has ever ridden
>> english, I mean this literaly, and all of the old cowboys
>> have either started a horse in a bosal or snaffle. This
>> was to teach the horse lightness, then to a curb, than
>> to a spade. It is just that to show an unfinished
>> horse(snaffle or bosal) was unheard of until recently
>> when classes for young horses in snaffles and bosals began.
>
>Well, I'm going to reserve final judgement until I've
>done more research.  I might buy it.
>
>> Also I still say that the pelham, gag, elevator came from
>> western or rather spanish design. During the period BC in
>> assyria and babylonia the rind snaffle and full cheek
>> snaffles were invented. The greeks and romans then
>> took this same bit, and for war horses, added spikes to
>> the mouthpiece.
>>
>> Later the "barbarians"(gauls and celts) invented the curb
>> bit. As time went on the medieval period began and the snaffle
>> was basicaly forgoten in europe except in the mediteranian
>> areas where the curb never came into favor except with nights
>> and nobles. As time continued on knights and tounaments became
>> spectator sports instead of war and so the use of the
>> huge draft horse came into being and with it bits that had up
>> to foot long shanks, two and three mouthpieces and togels or
>> spikes. Considering the knight had the sword in his free hand
>> and reins and shield in the other he could move his hand only
>> a few inches up to stop these huge animals. The same knights when
>> riding out had milder curb(smooth mouth) for that same horse.
>>
>> In denmark and part of germany this "fad" never caught on.
>> The continued to use the friesian. In spain it was still the
>> andalusian. Soon the use of light calvery was popular again
>> and so horses like the friesian, andalusian, the new TB,
>> arabs, and the new german invention- the warmblood were
>> all popular and riden with a light curb.
>>
>> The spanish spade was used in spain and portugal and with
>> enlightenment the snaffle reapeared in force.  The military
>> still used the curb and the english saddle, but others used
>> the snaffle. In america the cowboys began to start a type of
>> riding all their own. They used the spanish style left over
>> in mexico and south america from the spanish settlers there.
>> The horses were started in the bosal or snaffle and quickly
>> went to the curb and the spade was its most
>>
>> At the same time the pelham was being used, it came
>> from the spanish as a transition bit. It came into favor with
>> fox hunters and calvery units.
>>
>
>I didn't realize that when you said "western" you meant
>"western civilization."  Yes, I would grant that the English
>definitely picked up the snaffle and pelham from western
>civilization.
>
>But putting my facetiousness aside...
>
>I did some word searches on an online version of the Oxford
>English Dictionary.  (http://www.princeton.edu/~wds/oed.html)
>
>You say that "snaffle" dates from the Enlightenment. (Generally,
>from the late 1600's to the late 1700's.)  The OED has
>this for "snaffle":
>
>snaffle
>
>snaffle sn
>æ;f'l, sb.1 Also 6-7 snafle, snaffel (6 -ell, -ul).
>Of doubtful origin: connexion with (M)Dutch and (M)LG. snavel
>(late OFris. snavel, snaul, WFris. snaffel mouth), OHG. snapal
>(MHG. snabel, G. schnabel), beak, bill, mouth, is not clear;
>but cf. the use of G. schnabel for a forked instrument used
>in training hunting-dogs to keep the head up.
>
>  1.
>
>  a. A simple form of bridle-bit, having less restraining power
>     than one provided with a curb.
>
>    1533 Frith Another Bk. agst. Rastell A vj b, I verye well
>    lyken yow to him that hath a wilde horse to tame,..when he
>    perceueth that he can not holde him with a scottyshe snafle...
>
>    1542 Brinklow Compl. xii. (1874) 28 This were a good
>    snafful for the tyrannes and oppressers....
>
>    1577 Holinshed Chron., Hist. Scotl. I. 249, I perceyue this
>    man will neuer obey my commaundements, till he be rydden
>    with a snaffle.
>
>So, clearly, the snaffle was invented in Scotland.
>
>;-)
>
>But anyway, it is evident that the term, and in proper
>meaning, was in use fairly early, about the time of Henry VIII.
>
>And a couple of my favorites:
>
>    1814 Earl Dudley Lett. 7 May (1840) 35 There is no
>    riding the French in a snaffle-bridle.
>
>    1833 T. Hook Parson's Dau. ii. vii, Give your own
>    passions the curb, and allow mine the snaffle.
>
>It is interesting that "snaffle" actually appears to be the
>WFries (West Friesien?) word for "mouth".
>
>Curb is even older:
>
>curb
>
>curb kArb, sb. Forms: 5-7 corbe, curbe, 6-7 courbe, 7 courb,
>corb, kurbe, 7- curb (dial. 6-7 crubb(e, 9 crub); also
><beta>; (chiefly in senses 8-13) 7 kerbe, 7-9 kirb, 9 kerb.
>See also crub. The senses here placed all derive ultimately
>from Fr. courbe adj. (= Pr. corb, Sp., Pg., Ital. curvo):-
>L. curvus bent, crooked, or from Fr. courber:-L.curvare: see
>curb v.1 But their immediate etymological history presents
>differences, and Branches I and II might be treated as distinct
>words. Branch I appears only in Eng., and seems to be a
>derivative from curb v.1, in the sense `that which curbs or
>bends the horse's neck'; it seems to be the source of curb v.2,
>under the influence of...[go see the online OED]...
>
>I.
>
>1. A chain or strap passing under the lower jaw of a horse,
>  and fastened to the upper ends of the branches of the bit;
>  used chiefly for checking an unruly horse.
>
>  The reins being attached to the lower ends of the branches
>  of the bit, leverage is obtained for forcing the chain
>  against the jaw of the horse.
>
>    1477 Earl Rivers (Caxton) Dictes 52 If he yeue him
>    [a strong hors] not a strong bitte with a corbe, he shal
>    neuer con gouerne him.
>
>    1590 Spenser F.Q. i. i. 1 His angry steede did chide
>    his foming bitt, As much disdayning to the curbe to yield.
>
>    1782 Cowper Gilpin xxii, That trot became a gallop soon
>    In spite of curb and rein.
>
>I have these problems all the time.
>
>Pelham, on the other hand, though an old English surname,
>(and also the "P" in P.G. Wodehouse) appears to be a word
>of much more recent usage (mid-1800's):
>
>Pelham
>
>Pelham pe.lam. From the surname Pelham. In full,
>
>Pelham bit
>
>Pelham bit, a form of bit combining the snaffle and
> the curb in one. So
>
>Pelham bridle
>
>Pelham bridle.
>
>    1849 Youatt Horse 190 If the curb-bit is in fault, a
>    snaffle or Pelham-bit should be used.
>
>    1851 Cecil Stud Farm 139 The Pelham..is a species of
>    hybrid between a curb and a snaffle.
>
>    1875 Whyte Melville Riding Recoll. iii. (1879) 48 A
>    light-mouthed horse steered by a good rider, will cross
>    a country safely and satisfactorily in a Pelham bridle.
>
>I do accept that this does not define where a pelham bit
>came from, only that people in England started using the
>term in writing at about this time.
>
>And lastly, the OED substitutes "bradoon" as:
>
>bridoon
>
>bridoon bridu.n,
>
>bradoon
>
>bradoon bradu.n. a. Fr. bridon in same sense, deriv.
>of bride a bridle.
>
>1. `The snaffle and rein of a military bridle, which
>acts independently of the bit, at the pleasure of the rider'.
>Stocqueler.
>
>    1753 Chambers Cycl. Supp. s.v., A horse never goes
>    so well nor sure with a bridoon, unless he have been
>    first broke to the bit.
>
>    1801 W. Felton Carriages II. 156 Harness is frequently
>    made without breeching or bridoon.
>
>    1803 Sporting Mag. XXI. 220/2 A Weymouth bridle,
>    with bit, and bradoon, is in my opinion, preferable to
>    any other sort for the road.
>
>I didn't realize that "Weymouth" as a term for a double
>bridle went back that far.
>
>Interestingly, when I went to an English<-->Spanish
>dictionary online, I discovered that snaffle translates
>to bribon in Spanish! (yet bridoon was said to be of
>French origin.)  Could have gone either way, I suppose.
>
>
>> The gag and elevator bits are recent inventions by
>> western trainers that quickly where bought by eventers and
>> then to show jumpers.
>
>As I said from the first, I grant that the elevator is
>probably a western bit invention and that it has now caught on
>with the jump crowd (and now, perhaps, the Walking horse
>people) looking for more control.  But I'm gonna stick to
>my guns on gags--I've got a late 19th century article on
>Hackney driving horses that very clearly shows a gag rigging
>in harness.  The difference is that it is not a pair of holes
>in the ring of the snaffle through which one strings a round
>rein or cord, but a figure-8 split in the rein that crosses
>through the snaffle ring and continues on to become the cheek
>piece that attaches to the headstall.  But the action is
>exactly the same--you pull, it lifts--and it is called a "gag."
>The first time I ever used one of these was when I was a kid
>circa 1970--the old saddlebred lesson horse I was riding had
>a gag rigged almost exactly like the one in this 19th century
>article.
>
>> As for hackamores, the assyrians used somthing very
>> similar to the mechanical hack,...
>
>I accept completely that the hackamore comes down to us,
>in modern times, from the western (i.e., cowboys and
>vacqueros and whatevertheycalltheminArgentinas) tradition.
>
>Now what would be really interesting is if we could find
>an "Oxford Spanish Dictionary."
>
>
>Linda B. Merims
>lbm@ici.net
>Linda_Merims@ne.3com.com
>Massachusetts, USA
>


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