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RE: CONTROL AND COURTESY



John:

The first thing I do when I get a new horse, trained or not, is to teach
them to walk. I use a round pen as that is all I have room for on my
property near the barn. You  might say I lounge at a walk until they
understand the voice command as well as the body language. I never go in the
same direction more than three or four circles before I ask for a stop and
face me. I then proceed to do the same thing at a trot interspersing the
trot circles with a walk command as well as a stop.

When in the pen I also ask for lateral movements. Turns on the fore and
turns on the rear each direction. All this is done from the ground.

Then I do the same from the saddle including a few steps back at each stop.
I also work on lowering the head when a steady pressure is put on the
halter. Both from the ground and from the saddle. The horse will not be as
likely to run f the head is down.

Also think of this bit of homily. You only have to stop one side of the
horse!!!! If you stop one side the other will soon stop as well. This is the
basis of the lateral work. If you can get the horse to turn on the rear, one
step at a time, when you get into an excitable position if you ask for a
lateral move, even just one step, the horse will not charge forward as this
is hard to do when crossing the front legs.

I reiterate, the bit will never stop the horse. It will signal him to turn,
slow down, move side ways, backup and many other things and pulling on the
mouth can eventually make for an upwards movement (not generally appreciated
by the rider).

So, ground training, saddle training, rider training is the answer. And I
submit the caveat "it all depends"

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From:	John B.Ayers [mailto:ayers@plainfield.bypass.com]
Sent:	Monday, May 31, 1999 5:39 PM
To:	Bob Morris; Bob & Amber Roberts
Cc:	RIDECAMP
Subject:	Re: CONTROL AND COURTESY

Bob,

I hear you, and have used many of the Lyons and similar
techniques.

When I got Meshack he was a wreck to trailer load. An old
Vermont native watched me trying and said "That horse ain't
halter broke". I got professional help and quickly learned what
"halter broke" REALLY meant <g>.

My instructor at the time INSISTED I put a chain lead over
his nose. I HATED to do that to him, but she would not help
otherwise. Now he walks right on by me with a cotton lead rope
and stands quietly while I close the but chain. For an interim
period, if he resisted, all I had to do was put the lead chain on
him and he then went right on.

I *think* that something like an English Hackamore would have
a similar effect. He learns VERY quickly! I don't know how
training him as you suggest could overcome the excitement
of competition. The John Lyons method of picking up the rein
5000 times is just not my style. I love my horse and do get more
out of him by being kind, patient, and gentle. At some point he
respects "tough love"!

Give me more details of YOUR methods.

John


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Morris <bobmorris@rmci.net>
To: John B.Ayers <ayers@plainfield.bypass.com>; Bob & Amber Roberts
<mlaboure@flash.net>
Cc: RIDECAMP <ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 6:11 PM
Subject: RE: CONTROL AND COURTESY


>John:
>
>More control in competition comes from more basic training NOT A MORE
SEVERE
>BIT OR ANY OTHER MECHANICAL DEVICE!!!
>
>This weekend I rode in competition in just a rope halter. This horse a
month
>ago had the same problem as you mention. I have spent many days devoted to
>having this horse respond to a light control with just the halter while
>working in my round pen. Very light directional control, very light in
>lateral movements and a very light control to a stop with a backup.
>
>Yes ,it takes time but to have a well controlled horse you have to take the
>time it takes. NO MECHANICAL DEVICE REPLACES TRAINING!!!  The most severe
>bit, in most peoples opinion, is the spade bit. But as used by the true
>Californio it is just a signaling device and no pressure is ever used. The
>softest bit, in most peoples opinion, is the snaffle bit. But used by a
>heavy handed rider can be extremely severe.
>
>John, in fairness to your horse, consider the necessary training rather
than
>the mechanical option.
>
>
>Bob Morris
>Morris Endurance Enterprises
>Boise, ID
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: John B.Ayers [mailto:ayers@plainfield.bypass.com]
>Sent: Monday, May 31, 1999 3:15 PM
>To: Bob & Amber Roberts
>Cc: RIDECAMP
>Subject: RC:  CONTROL AND COURTESY
>
>Amber
>
>That has been my approach until now. This weekend several experienced
>Endurance riders independently suggested I need more control in
competition.
>
>
>If someone knows how to *TRAIN* a horse not to get excited in competition,
>other than participating in many rides and getting him settled into it, I
>and
>scores of other riders would dearly love to know how!
>
>In the interim, I think it is common courtesy to other riders to have
>control
>of your horse.  In fact, that is probably what some really meant when they
>suggested "I need more control in competition". Others have emailed me
>privately, suggesting that my approach is sound.
>
>I'd like to hear from others that have used an English Hackamore or similar
>arrangement. None of my riding instructors have had experience with CTR
>or Endurance or know much about bits.
>
>My reply to Bob Morris follows:
>
>---------------------------------------------------
>Hi Bob
>
>Thanks for responding. The snaffle has worked great
>in all situations EXCEPT CTR! He gets very competitive
>and wants to race. It is impossible to duplicate in training
>since he's normally very laid back.
>
>Several people who saw him, independently suggested
>more control.  I have no way to duplicate the "adrenalin
>rush" in competition!
>
>It is my "rookie opinion" is that we need this in competition.
>The ride would be easier on BOTH of us.
>
>John
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob & Amber Roberts <mlaboure@flash.net>
>To: Bob Morris <bobmorris@rmci.net>
>Cc: John B.Ayers <ayers@plainfield.bypass.com>; RIDECAMP
><ridecamp@endurance.net>
>Date: Monday, May 31, 1999 8:00 AM
>Subject: RC: RE: ENGLISH HACKAMORE
>
>
>>Bob Morris wrote:
>>
>>> John:
>>>
>>> Please consider the fact that it is not the bit or bridle that
>>>stops/slows the horse but the training.
>>
>>EXCELLENT!!   Thank you so much for saying this.
>>
>>Amber
>
>
>
>
>
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