Re: Re: knees

["Suzanne Griffin Barnes" <enduroqn@willapabay.org>]

Jimbo,
I disagree!  Tight Adductors DOOOOOOO pull your knees apart!  The ACTION of
the adductors is to pull the legs (squeezing the knees) together, but when
they are tight they will externally rotate or pull the knees apart.  Anyway,
there is more to "fixing" the problem then changing the way you ride; your
equipment; or doing stretches/exercises, if you have had this problem for
awhile then you need to "reteach" your muscles/soft tissue a new way of
being so all of those adjustments will "better hold".  This is where a soft
tissue specialist comes in handy (pun intended) like Jim Pascucci.
susie griffin barnes
-----Original Message-----
From: JPascu@aol.com <JPascu@aol.com>
To: MCShasa@email.msn.com <MCShasa@email.msn.com>; ridecamp@endurance.net
<ridecamp@endurance.net>
Date: Sunday, April 18, 1999 10:44 AM
Subject: RC: Re: knees


>I've been following this thread with some interest, since the human
structure
>and biomechanics is one of my interests. There have been a number of artful
>takes on anatomy and biomechanics.
>It seems to have started with the question on knee pain.
>
>>A few exercises. Sorry, I don't know any for knees. I can straighten
>> a new born foal with knock-knees, but don't know anything for an adult.
>
>"knock knees" in the horse is not the same joint. The horse's knee is the
>carpus, the human equivalent is "knocked wrists".
>
>There are three basic leg patterns in the human, straight, "O" or Bow (Genu
>Varus) or "x" knocked (Genu Valgus). The "o" and "x" legs represent a
>rotation in the femur at the hip joint ( acetabullum). The "o" corresponds
to
>and internal rotation, the "x" to and external rotation. ( the femur at the
>hip has 3 degrees of movement freedom, internal/external rotation,
>flexion/extension and aBduction/aDduction, the same as the horse. Dogs have
a
>4th). We are all equipped with the muscles to carry out these motions, some
>of the muscles and fascia may be more toned than others and therefore the
>rotation. So, if one's Lateral Rotators are more toned than "x" legs will
>result. This is a harder "type" for riding. If the Medial Rotators are more
>toned then "o" legs will result. Better for riding and in methology would
be
>caused by riding, no self respectng cowhand is going to walk with "x" legs,
>especially with corderoys cause they "swish, swish, swish, swish". (John
>Lyons is and external rotation, Tom Dorrance is an external with an
internal
>"overlay".).
>Along with these fundamental rotations come some other predictable
>characteristics. X legs, high medial arch, the tibia follows the femur, the
>adductors and the qaudriceps become bound together, narrow ischial
>tuberosities (sits bone) pinched in look at the butt... O legs, flat feet
>(collapsed medial arch), adductors and hamstrings bound up, wide
>tuberosities...
>All of this is very visible while standing in front of a mirror, except the
>sits bones.
>Most of us are a mixture of "o", "x" and straight it's part genetics and
part
>training, copying others etc. Nature and nurture.
>Enough of this stuff.
>
>Suzie wrote:
>> Riding is an
>>isometric exercise in that the muscles involved are working  with no
change
>>in length (unlike a bicep curl) It primarily works the adductors (inner
>>thigh muscles) which when tight, pulls the legs apart (bow legs).
>
>This is isn't actually completely factual. Posting is not isometric, it's a
>combination of Concentric contraction and Eccentric contraction, when
coming
>down. With the quads doing most of the work. Turning the horse from the leg
>is a concentric contraction, using the adductors.
>The adductors DO NOT bow the legs, adduction occurs at the acetabullum. The
>movement "aDduction" is pulling the legs closer together, aBduction takes
>them apart. The aDdcuctor that Wendy mentioned that gets tired and cramps
>when pulling the legs to the side while mounted is the Tensor of the
Fascaie
>Latae and the Gluteus Medius.
>
>>OK, does anyone know any knee exercises?  Both of my knees stiffen up when
>>riding..to the point where I can't continue.  I have to get off and walk.
>>They loosen up in just a few minutes and there's no residual pain at all.
>>It's worse on a slow ride.  The movement at the faster gaits seems to
>>postpone the agony.  At a walk, they start to throb after about 20
minutes.
>>At a trot, it doesn't start until about an hour and a half.
>
>I would suggest that the reason you are having a problem is from lack of
>movement, similar to the person who's feet go to sleep when riding, packing
>but not running. Try shifting your position, dropping the stirrups and
>rotating your feet. You may be in forward flexion and impinging on the
>femural artery, nerves. When you trot if you are posting then you're
opening
>this angle at the hip. You may also try shortening your stirrups to open
the
>popliteal space behind the knee.
>One other suggestion is to stand in the stirrups and if an "x" pull the
>adductors towards the rear before you sit this will help the leg to lay
>flatter against the horse.
>There are lots of stretches for this as well.
>The advice that said get off and walk is great. There's nothing wrong with
>that.
>
>hope this helps, I think I drank too much tea today.
>
>jim pascucci
>Advanced Certified Rolfer
>www.equisearch.com/ibt
>
>
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Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.    
Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/RideCamp   
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