ridecamp@endurance.net: Re: Ivers last comment on Carbos, etc

Re: Ivers last comment on Carbos, etc

Tivers@aol.com
Wed, 3 Dec 1997 18:23:54 -0500 (EST)

In a message dated 97-12-03 16:59:28 EST, vanhove@unavco.ucar.edu writes:

<< Tom,

I think you are completely missing the point. First, hardly anyone
is saying don't feed any grain during a ride. What they are saying is
don't feed ONLY grain. This is important because grain takes more water
to digest, and for a lot of other reasons already stated. It is IMPORTANT
for horses to eat a reasonable amount of hay before and during an endurance
ride.>>

I'm not against hay. I am against thinking that hay can substitute for
carbohyrate on the day of the event--which one person has suggested.

>>Articles I've read on glycogen loading for horses show a clear benefit
for shorter, higher intensity work such as a cross country event. For
endurance rides, there may be a benefit for the horses working faster; BUT
I would think you would agree that it is important to glycogen load
properly, with a glycogen loading product, rather than trying to achieve
this by feeding a lot of extra grain in the 3 or 4 days before an event;>>

Well, it's two separate problems. You want as much glycogen stored away in
the muscle cells and liver as possible (glycogen loading) but you also need
incoming carbs at the beginning and throughout the ride. My suggestion would
be 1 lb of grain for each hour out from the start. For example if the start
is 9:00 AM and you feed at 7:00, then 2 lbs of grain would be a good start.
At 3 hours out, 3 lbs of grain. 1 hour out, 1 lb of grain. And then grain
maybe every two hours during the ride.

> I know you have recommended a specific product in some past posts.>

Actually, I had some samples from a manufacturer that I was giving away.


>High intensity aerobic exercise is still not an intensity where anaerobic
>energy systems are being used to any significant extent. In the horse,
>we're talking about heartrates in the 160 to 190 area. Still, though, slow
>energy production has shifted to 100% carbohydrate--fast energy production
is
>all carbohydrate-based.

>I dont understand the last sentence here, but anyway most endurance riders
I know, inluding folks who are riding to win, keep their horses heart rates
lower than 160 except at the race to the finish. Again horses working
harder, for only an hour or 2, are the ones that can really benefit from
from glycogen loading, horses doing fast 50's probably can also benefit,
but I bet the benefits are decreased for tougher, mountain rides where
all the horses are on the trail for at least 5 hours.>

This referred to the paragraph from the text I was quoting. If at 160 to 190
heartrates the fuel source is 100% carbohydrates, then at lesser efforts it
still should be higher than the contribution from fats.

>One last point, Truman, Sarah, Wendy, Susan, et al are advising
people how to feed to minimize their horses chances of developing metabolic
problems during endurance rides; I dont think any of them are claiming
that this way of feeding is designed to win track races.
It is really
usesless to be first into vet check # 1 or even first to the 45 mile point
if your horse is unable to complete. Endurance is special in that it IS
an accomplishment just to finish. Seeking to maximize speed should come
only after a horse has demonstrated an ability to handle the job and take
care of itself by eating and drinking well at a ride. >

I'm not concerned about absolute speed in an endurance horse. My concern is
the early onset of fatigue--which is just as dangerous as any other
consideration. If fatigue can be avoided, then you'll also benefit from
increased performance.

>At that point I'm
sure your nutrition advice can help shave minutes off the ride time if
used in combination with good training; especially at flat, fast rides.

Teresa
>>

This is a good, thinking, post Teresa. Remember, though, that shaving time is
really something that has to be done throughout an endurance "race". If it's
not a competition, then none of my stuff matters at all--everybody can stick
with hay and joyfully stagger in whenever.

ti

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