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To: endurance-digest@moscow.com
Subject: endurance-digest V1 #93
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endurance-digest Friday, 11 August 1995 Volume 01 : Number 093
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ann Warrington <RLINARCH@WSUVM1.csc.wsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 14:02:45 PDT
Subject: Vet checks/number of riders etc
I'm wondering if the elaborate in gates/times in
methods we are discussing are necessary at smaller
rides...our ride in Idaho usually has 25-35 riders in
the 30, 35-50 in the 50 mile ride and under 20 in the
longer distances. Are these about the same numbers of
people in rides in other parts of the country ?
I'm interested in improving the flow through our
vet checks, but have been thinking its a design
problem. Like the idea of different areas for
those ready to be checked. Hey Steph, I'm saving all
these posts for ideas for next year !
Ann
------------------------------
From: F_SCHERERTA@TITAN.SFASU.EDU
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 16:24:41 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: race etiquette
On Thu, 10 Aug 1995 rsantana@rsantana.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu wrote:
> What a great subject for controversy!
> First of all I think general trail etiquette needs to be followed a
> little more closely on endurance rides. 15 year ago when I first started
> riding endurance it was common practice to call out to rideres ahead
> that you wanted to pass. Now I am frequently blasted off the trail by
> people hurrying by without a word from them. "TRAIL PLEASE" the commonly
> used phrase.
I still call out to people "passing on right or passing on left", that is
how I was taught and that is how I taught my husband and children. Maybe
ride managers should go over this with the new people and even the old
people who forget that it is still suppose to be fun even though it is a
competition. I have had people blast right by me on a small skinny trail
and my horse supports a large red bandanna on her tail. When I see
someone comming by I get off the trail as much as possible and turn her
head towards the trail. She does not kick but she did once and I don't
want to take a chance of another horse or rider getting hurt so I do take
a lot of precautions.
> So in your question about gates, it is common courtesy to hold a
> gate for approaching riders. It is also common courtesy to wait for the
> rider holding the gate to mount up before riding off. This helps prevent
> the horse from getting excited about being left behind abd running off
> before the rider is fully mounted.
> Again this is an area where riders have gotten too involved in "the
> race" instead of remembering this sport is mostly for fun and very
> little glory. Being in 17th place and racing to attempt to catch up to
> the 10th rider is against the basic principals of endurance riding, "to
> finish is to win", and probably would not serve any good for the horse
> since it would probably be a lot more tired from having to race hard for
> a silly 10th place finish. I cannot recall any horse that
> finished 10th and received BC.
> Remember there is only one first place award.
> I watched a rider do this very thing at the Fireworks ride. He had
> trouble getting the horse down in the last vet check. Then came racing
> past me because he was in 11th place and just had to catch number 10.
> well he came in 10th all right but his horse was exhausted, and "tied
> up" at the finish. Needless to say he didn't even get a completion award
> let alone be judged for BC! so was it worth it to hurry? You be the
> judge!
>
>
> Ray Santana
> University of California at Davis
> Medical Center
>
>
> ----------------------------- Note follows -----------------------------
> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 10:40:55 -0700
> Message-Id: <199508101740.KAA21593@ix9.ix.netcom.com>
> From: PRoach@ix.netcom.com (paul roach)
> Subject: race etiquette
> To: endurance@moscow.com
> Sender: owner-endurance@moscow.com
> Precedence: list
>
> Greetings!
>
> I'm a southern California endurance rider relatively new to the List.
> This is my first contribution; although its a lengthy one, I suspect
> that many of you will find the subject of some interest.
>
> The subject is etiquette. My question has to do with gates. I raise
> the issue because I was involved in an incident during the Bridgeport
> ride which got at least one person steamed up. As I had never before
> been in a ride in which gates had to be openned and closed by the
> riders, I was not at all sure how I ought to think about it. So just
> for fun I thought that I'd let all of you think about it too.
>
> Here's the context: First, at the pre-ride meeting Jackie B. lets us
> know that there will be some gates, and that we need to close them after
> passing through. Second, the incident I'll describe happens just after
> the third (and last) vet-check. It involves four riders who are in
> something like 14th to 18th place, and who are all looking to make a
> strong move toward the top ten. In other words, at this point it is
> indeed a race.
>
> Here is what happened: two riders, riding together, (group A) passes
> another two (Group B) about half a mile out of the vet-check and
> attempts to put distance between themselves and these two other riders.
> Maybe a minute or so after passing, Group A comes to a gate, stops,
> opens the gate. As the horses of group A move through the gate, Group B
> comes around the bend in the road and approaches the gate, arriving at
> the gate while it is still open. Group A riders figure that, since they
> took to time to open the gate, Group B can take the time to close it,
> and they take off at a canter to catch some horses. Group B moves
> through the gate and closes it, but feels that that was Group A's
> responsibility, since it openned the gate in the first place.
>
> Here's my thinking: If group A is required to stick around and close the
> gate it is at a clear disadvantage; it had maybe a 30 second advantge
> over group B when it got to the gate. Should it be required to give up
> that advantage by allowing a following group to close the gap while it
> is busy dealing with the gate and then allowing the following group
> through before closing the gate? Surely it would not be thought of two
> kindly if group A had closed the gate in the faces of group B, although
> that would seem the fairest thing to do (each group would have had to
> both open and close the same gate). On the other hand, group B is at a
> bit of a disadvantage in this case, because the gate in question can be
> openned, but not closed, from horseback. Consequently, it could take a
> bit more time to close the gate than to open it. So, the way I see it
> you give a minimal break to the leading riders, if you let them leave
> the open gate to the group behind, or you give a bigger break to the
> folling group if you require the first group to stay and close the gate.
> Or you give no-one an advantage by requiring the first group to slam the
> door, as it were, in the faces to the following group.
>
> Anyway, I'd like to see your thoughts on the matter. Perhaps there is a
> consensus on the subject which I have not found yet.
>
> Paul Roach
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: Dominique Freeman <fadjurs@sadandy.hpl.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 14:29:03 -0600 (PDT)
Subject: Email sign up at Swanton 100
Hi All,
In an effort to increase the amount of "endurance rider" communication,
I will have a sign up sheet at the Swanton Pacific 100 for those of you
willing to share your email addresses with local as well as out of state
riders who may not realize there is an endurance home page on the net.
I also want to encourage all those people who have a home or business computer,
with or without modem, to hook up and get with the 90's!
If you dont get a chance to sign up at check in, catch me on the trail
(a bay horse, orange tack, with "@" shaved on his Fadjur *buttox*), or
leave the information at the awards table Sunday morning, and I'll collect
it then,
Happy trails,
Dom and the boyz (Fadjurs, Jur Prize, Arabick Jayare and Marco Fadjurs)
______________________________________________________________________
Dominique Freeman | "Life is short, science is long" |
fadjurs@sadandy.hpl.hp.com | |
Hewlett Packard Laboratories, | |
Palo Alto, CA USA | |
Phone: (415) 857-8596 | |
FAX: (415) 852-8576 | |
______________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: rsantana@rsantana.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 15:49:30 pST
Subject: Re: race etiquette
So are we allowed to carry and use a whip against rude riders? Or
their horses? Some form of notification would sure be nice from those
coming up behind those of us who ride more conservatively. Also I like
to take it easy on my young horses before trying anything fancy like
going fast all the way start to finish! My older gelding once kicked a
rider after she ran her horse into his fetlocks 3 times. 3 strikes and
you're out (or kicked in this case)!
>From the OS/2 desk of Ray Santana
University of California at Davis
Medical Center
- ----------------------------- Note follows -----------------------------
From: linda_cowles@MENTORG.COM (Linda Cowles @ PCB x5624)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 15:17:01 -0700
Message-Id: <9508101517.ZM9406@hplindac>
In-Reply-To: F_SCHERERTA@TITAN.SFASU.EDU
"Re: race etiquette" (Aug 10, 4:24pm)
References: <Pine.3.89.9508101645.A63710-0100000@TITAN.SFASU.EDU>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.0.0 15dec93)
To: F_SCHERERTA@TITAN.SFASU.EDU, rtsantana@ucdavis.edu
Subject: Re: race etiquette
Cc: PRoach@ix.netcom.com, endurance@moscow.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0
On Aug 10, 4:24pm, F_SCHERERTA@TITAN.SFASU.EDU wrote:
> I still call out to people "passing on right or passing on left", that is
> how I was taught and that is how I taught my husband and children. Maybe
> ride managers should go over this with the new people and even the old
> people who forget that it is still suppose to be fun even though it is a
> competition.
>-- End of excerpt from F_SCHERERTA@TITAN.SFASU.EDU
This is a great idea. I have had to really get firm (well, obnoxious!)
with oblivious riders that use my horse as brakes, running into him rather
than pulling up...
"If your horses' nose is on my shirt, he's too <f***ing> close, okay?
Thanks."
One of the only times I'd welcome a case of projectile diarrhea ;^)!
Good sportsmanship and manners are qualities that we need to try and
encourage... they increase the feeling of comradre and friendship.
Linda
(counting the minutes till Tevis and wondering if she'll be able to restrain
the urge to steal a horse at the Bluff and race into town - Eeeehhaaaa! Heck,
it's only 30 more miles!!!!)
P.S. Hey Truman - The Tevis Yuppiemobile "Babe" (my new 1 ton Dodge Cummins
that someone called a yuppie truck on rec.eq, for those of you not connected)
is washed and shined and ready to roll - no horse trailer though.... kinda
spoils the picture ;^)
------------------------------
From: step@fsr.com (Stephanie Teeter)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 16:18:16 +0800
Subject: Re: Email sign up at Swanton 100
Go get'm Dominique!
Steph
>>>>> "Dominique" == Dominique Freeman <fadjurs@sadandy.hpl.hp.com> writes:
> Hi All, In an effort to increase the amount of "endurance rider"
> communication, I will have a sign up sheet at the Swanton
> Pacific 100 for those of you willing to share your email
> addresses with local as well as out of state riders who may not
> realize there is an endurance home page on the net.
> I also want to encourage all those people who have a home or
> business computer, with or without modem, to hook up and get
> with the 90's!
> If you dont get a chance to sign up at check in, catch me on the
> trail (a bay horse, orange tack, with "@" shaved on his Fadjur
> *buttox*), or leave the information at the awards table Sunday
> morning, and I'll collect it then,
> Happy trails,
> Dom and the boyz (Fadjurs, Jur Prize, Arabick Jayare and Marco
> Fadjurs)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Dominique Freeman | "Life is short, science is long" |
> fadjurs@sadandy.hpl.hp.com | | Hewlett Packard Laboratories, | |
> Palo Alto, CA USA | | Phone: (415) 857-8596 | | FAX: (415)
> 852-8576 | |
> ______________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: linda_cowles@MENTORG.COM (Linda Cowles @ PCB x5624)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 15:17:01 -0700
Subject: Re: race etiquette
On Aug 10, 4:24pm, F_SCHERERTA@TITAN.SFASU.EDU wrote:
> I still call out to people "passing on right or passing on left", that is
> how I was taught and that is how I taught my husband and children. Maybe
> ride managers should go over this with the new people and even the old
> people who forget that it is still suppose to be fun even though it is a
> competition.
>-- End of excerpt from F_SCHERERTA@TITAN.SFASU.EDU
This is a great idea. I have had to really get firm (well, obnoxious!)
with oblivious riders that use my horse as brakes, running into him rather
than pulling up...
"If your horses' nose is on my shirt, he's too <f***ing> close, okay?
Thanks."
One of the only times I'd welcome a case of projectile diarrhea ;^)!
Good sportsmanship and manners are qualities that we need to try and
encourage... they increase the feeling of comradre and friendship.
Linda
(counting the minutes till Tevis and wondering if she'll be able to restrain
the urge to steal a horse at the Bluff and race into town - Eeeehhaaaa! Heck,
it's only 30 more miles!!!!)
P.S. Hey Truman - The Tevis Yuppiemobile "Babe" (my new 1 ton Dodge Cummins
that someone called a yuppie truck on rec.eq, for those of you not connected)
is washed and shined and ready to roll - no horse trailer though.... kinda
spoils the picture ;^)
------------------------------
From: BULTE@INFO.FORASOL.atlas.fr
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:48:02 +0200
Subject: Vet procedure
I'm surprised
1- you have to wait for a P&R check to enter in the vet area
2- that is not always under control of a veterinian.
In France (and ELDRIC rides) we may decide to enter when we want (the
rider)
and then only the vet checks pulse and gait.
I f every thing is not ok, you are just pulled out without an another chance.
------------------------------
From: BULTE@INFO.FORASOL.atlas.fr
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 11:48:02 +0200
Subject: Vet procedure
I'm surprised
1- you have to wait for a P&R check to enter in the vet area
2- that is not always under control of a veterinian.
In France (and ELDRIC rides) we may decide to enter when we want (the
rider)
and then only the vet checks pulse and gait.
I f every thing is not ok, you are just pulled out without an another chance.
------------------------------
From: BULTE@INFO.FORASOL.atlas.fr
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:13:47 +0200
Subject: Vet in and medical check up
"it just before it leaves its hold than just after it has met
criteria and entered its hold. After an hour or even a half hour a
horse can start to stiffen up or show the beginning signs of colic.
These symptoms may not be apparent right after a horse comes in and is
still full of adrenalin."
Perfectly thru that's why our first class vet "Philippe Bernardeau" is using
on our National rides (in France) a final inspection 5mn BEFORE starting.
He just advices the rider to continue or to stop.
------------------------------
From: Karen Steenhof <ksteenho@eagle.idbsu.edu>
Date: 11 Aug 1995 07:54:48 -0600
Subject: Veterinary Help Wanted
Help! Help!
A ride is in jeopardy because we have been unable to find a second
vet. The Old Selam ride, scheduled for October 19 just outside of
Boise Idaho, may have to be cancelled if we do not get a 2nd vet lined
up. Are there any vets out there who would be able to work the ride, or
do any of you know any vets who could? Salary and travel would be
negotiable (up to a point).
Please email me today if you can help. I would hate to see this ride
cancelled at such a late date.
Karen Steenhof
ksteenho@eagle.idbsu.edu
------------------------------
From: jkent@gears.efn.org (John T. Kent)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 05:43 GMT
Subject: temp unsubscribe
I'm going out of town for two weeks and I can't have my mail backing up on
the server. Please
unsubscribe
me effective today and if possible put me back up on the 26th if not I'll do
it when I get home. Thanks.
John T. Kent
------------------------------
From: step@fsr.com (Stephanie Teeter)
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 07:04:33 +0800
Subject: Re: Vet procedure
>>>>> "BULTE" == BULTE <BULTE@INFO.FORASOL.atlas.fr> writes:
> I'm surprised 1- you have to wait for a P&R check to enter in
> the vet area 2- that is not always under control of a
> veterinian.
> In France (and ELDRIC rides) we may decide to enter when we want
> (the rider) and then only the vet checks pulse and gait.
> I f every thing is not ok, you are just pulled out without an
> another chance.
Pierre - does your horse have to be at a minimum pulse at this
point? Does your hold begin *as soon as* you arrive at the check?
Steph
------------------------------
From: CMikeT@aol.com
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 12:40:19 -0400
Subject: Re: race etiquette
Paul,
Regarding gates on the trail, common sense must reign supreme.
Either group A would need to slam the gate shut in Group B's face or else
leave it open and let Group B shut it.
They could do the chivalrous thing by waiting and shutting the gate behind
Group B, but it is a race, not dinner on the town.
Mike
C. Mike Tomlinson, DVM
Tomlinson Consortium
501-D West Redlands Blvd.
Redlands, CA 92373-4642
(909)307-2369
Fax(909)307-2366
CMikeT@AOL.com
Mike@Tomlinson.com
------------------------------
From: step@sunfish.fsr.com (Stephanie Teeter)
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 1995 19:19:49 +0800
Subject: [glawson@ibm.net: Marciante Saddle for sale]
Return-Path: <glawson@ibm.net>
From: glawson@ibm.net
Date: Thu, 10 Aug 95 21:29:38
To: <step@sunfish.fsr.com>
Subject: Marciante Saddle for sale
X-Mailer: IBM WebExplorer
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 231
Marciante long distance endurance saddle, new in April '95, short racing fenders, light stirrups, E-Z cinch, adjustable
rigging, 16 lbs fully rigged, brown, 15" seat. $650. 603-527-0472 (h); 603-528-2900 x13 (w). glawson@ibm.net
------------------------------
From: rsantana@rsantana.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 95 13:25:00 pST
Subject: Vet procedure
The vet gate is open to any who want to enter it. When you enter the
vet area your arrival time is recorded. Your time in hold only does not
begin until you get a pulse check within criteria.
If your pulse is not within criteria then your hold time does not
begin.
The vet checks the pulse again usually and all other signs for
fitness. You usually will not see a vet until the pulse criteria is
met.
Now this means someone could in fact be having trouble without the
knowledge of a vet. Hopefully and usually the vet is made aware of
problems riders are having with their horse by the P&R crews.
This procedure of having some else check the pulse frees the vet up
for checking fitness of the animal and to attend to problems. But of
course any system is open to abuses by uncaring riders!
From the OS/2 desk of Ray Santana
University of California at Davis
Medical Center
- ----------------------------- Note follows -----------------------------
From: BULTE@INFO.FORASOL.atlas.fr
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Subject: Vet procedure
Sender: owner-endurance@moscow.com
Precedence: list
I'm surprised
1- you have to wait for a P&R check to enter in the vet area
2- that is not always under control of a veterinian.
In France (and ELDRIC rides) we may decide to enter when we want (the
rider)
and then only the vet checks pulse and gait.
I f every thing is not ok, you are just pulled out without an another chance.
------------------------------
End of endurance-digest V1 #93
******************************