ridecamp@endurance.net: Mail failure

Mail failure

POSTMASTER@uf4725p02.washingtondc.ATTGIS.COM
Fri Jun 30 11:08 EDT 1995

[005] Mail retry count exceeded sending to:
REMOTE /deardj

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <ncrgw1!moscow.com!endurance@ncrhub4>
Received: from uf4725y1.WashingtonDC.attgis.com by
uf4725y1.WashingtonDC.attgis.com id
<2FF0962E@uf4725y1.WashingtonDC.attgis.com>; Tue Jun 27 19:37 EDT 1995
Received: by uf4725y1.WashingtonDC.NCR.COM; 27 Jun 95 18:50:15 EDT
Received: by ncrhub4.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Jun 95 18:47:42 EDT
Received: by ncrgw1.ATTGIS.COM; 27 Jun 95 18:35:07 EDT
Received: from grouper.moscow.com by relay3.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQyvzk11133;
Tue, 27 Jun 1995 18:10:29 -0400
From: owner-endurance-digest@moscow.com
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by grouper.moscow.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id
OAA26154 for endurance-digest-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 14:00:27 -0700
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 14:00:27 -0700
Message-Id: <199506272100.OAA26154@grouper.moscow.com>
To: endurance-digest@moscow.com
Subject: endurance-digest V1 #45
Reply-To: endurance@moscow.com
Precedence: bulk

endurance-digest Tuesday, 27 June 1995 Volume 01 : Number 045

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stacy A Berger <Stacy_A_Berger@ccm.sc.intel.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 95 14:31:00 PDT
Subject: Re: Castle Rock (CA) ride 6/24th

Text item:

Laney-

I also finished Castle Rock on the modified, humane trail in. I walked at least
half of the ride. I am very thankful that Porter came thru wonderfully. Porter
finished with all B's. I agree with you - it is very important to plan your
ride strategy accordingly for this ride. This was my 4th completion on the 50,
and I have also completed the 70. I think all of the people new to this ride
had a tougher time than we did.

Lots of accolades need to be given for the exceptional veterinarian support. It
was so important to have skilled endurance vet's at this ride. They were very
busy all day. Dr. Jim Steere (heaad vet), Dr. Mike Tomlinson, Dr. Kessinger, Dr.
Bruce, Dr. Paul McEvoy, and the other professional's(I don't have all of their
names) were working under a considerable stress - which takes any "fun" out of
the day. Also thanks to all the other support people that were taking P&R's and
just generally helping out.

I hope that this ride does not discourage the McCreary's from hosting future
rides. They always put on a beautiful, well-run event. Unfortunately Mother
Nature was not cooperative this year.

I am giving Porter a month off for his hard work - and am looking forward to our
next ride!

Stacy Berger

Text item: External Message Header

The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.

***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.

Precedence: list
Sender: owner-endurance@moscow.com
To: endurance@moscow.com
Subject: Castle Rock (CA) ride 6/24th
From: laneyh@ix.netcom.com (Lucia Humphrey)
Message-Id: <199506262036.NAA01701@ix4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 13:36:42 -0700
Received: from by ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1/Netcom)
id NAA01701; Mon, 26 Jun 1995 13:36:42 -0700
Received: from ix4.ix.netcom.com (ix4.ix.netcom.com [199.182.120.7]) by grouper.
moscow.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA15095 for <endurance@moscow.com>; Mon
, 26 Jun 1995 12:28:03 -0700
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by grouper.moscow.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA1
5099 for endurance-outgoing; Mon, 26 Jun 1995 12:28:08 -0700
Received: from grouper.moscow.com by relay1.UU.NET with ESMTP
id QQyvvm06676; Mon, 26 Jun 1995 16:38:26 -0400
Received: from relay1.UU.NET by hermes.intel.com (5.65/10.0i); Mon, 26 Jun 95 13
:41:52 -0700
Received: from hermes.intel.com by prairie.sc.intel.com with smtp
(Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0sQKwE-0002Q6C; Mon, 26 Jun 95 13:39 WET DST

------------------------------

From: linda_cowles@MENTORG.COM (Linda Cowles @ PCB x5624)
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 95 15:22:21 -0700
Subject: Castle Rock 50 (long, with questions)

Hi Folks,

Shatirr and I managed to survive this weekend's Castle Rock (California)
50 mile ride, but it was a close call for poor Shatirr.

The ride started well, with rolling wooded hills and coastal vistas that
were a delight to ride. It was warm at the 6:00 start, and Stacey and
I both wore sleaveless t-shirts. Stacey is an old pro at this ride, and
explained how tough the afternoon leg was, so we planned to take it slow
and easy, because of the heat, and to shoot for just finishing.

This tough ride got tougher this year. The heat and a trail change that
switched the shady but steep afternoon knock-out hill to 2 less vertical
but longer and sunnyer climbs combined to give us a ride that many started
but _very_ few completed in good shape.

The 70 mile ride was called in the early afternoon.

As it stands now, out of 120+ starters, only 21 were given completions,
many were pulled, and the vet checks looked like equine ICU's with all
of the drips running and horses trying to roll.

The trail was very difficult (I've ridden the Western States trail; this is
tougher), with moderate hills in the morning, lots of either deep sand or
hard packed decomposed granite road. After lunch, super hot, steep hills,
including one 3 to 4 mi. climb that had lots of sun and no water untill you
were over the top and down a mile. I was later told that the temperture
was well over 100 (it was 110 at my place) with the humidity around 58%.

This is an incredible place to ride, and everyone running it is great. I
just wish it was do-able. It's always a very hard ride, but this year?
I love the ride, but it's not for me. If the tough hills were in the
morning, maybe. The only way I'd do it again is to ride the first 30 miles
and kiss-off the completion.

*******

The rest of this is my personal journey, with some questions. It's long,
as Shatirr had real problems, and you may want to skip it, but if you have
feedback, I'd love to hear it. The only real good lesson is that you can
have a horse that's in great condition, is going through vet checks great,
the pace can be slow as possible, and you can still end up in big trouble.

Shatirr's pulse stayed low throughout the morning, not going above 140 on
the hills, and hovering around 85 to 95 on the flat and gentle grades. He
was under 70 as soon as we'd stop. We had a rear shoe slip (lost all but
1 nail) early on, slipped on the old easyboot over the shoe and were off
again. At our pace, an easyboot is no big deal.

We walked straight into P&Rs at the 1st vet check with a pulse of 64 and
below criteria respiration, and got through the vetting with A's and a
B for impulsion. Shatirr was very eager the whole ride, and was in good
condition starting out; we were really having fun. Staceys' Porter,
Mr Macho, never stopped wanting more trail faster, but behaved himself
at our conservative pace.

We got to the 30 mile lunch check around 1:00 (definitely sticking to
plan and going slow). Stacey went right into the P&R and vet, and passed
easily, I stood Shatirr in the creek for a few minutes and ended up with 48
pulse and a very low respiration, and all A's except for the B impulsion
(a constant for Shatirr). He ate well and drank plenty of tepid water.
Out of lunch, we jogged the approx. 3 mi. flat creekside trail, (he wanted
to canter and felt great) stopping several times to scoop off and drink.
When we came to the first Killer Hill, an approx 4 mile assent with very
little "give" to it, I dismounted to walk the remainder of the ride (except
one short downhill spur) on foot. A lot of it was steep and in the sun.

There was a shockingly cold spring about a mile over the top of the hill,
and I scooped us _and_ a fellow rider (;^). We spent about 10 min. cooling
off, picked up a 70 miler, and resumed our walk. Shatirr was starting to
get slower, but this is the point that he usually behaves this way, so I'd
dismissed the warning. A mile down the hill we ran into Ellen McCrary (?)
who informed us that the 70 mile ride had been cancelled because of the
heat/humidity, and that they were advising 50 milers to head for the
camp/Swanton vet check unless they felt extremely good about finishing
the 2nd hot tough hill into the next vet. It was really late in the ride,
and we had a total of 1.5 hours of ride time to do the remaining 8 miles,
so I decided to just call it and started walking back to camp. Shatirr
looked tired at this point, and I didn't realise it, but he had started
to colic. I continued walking on alone.

As we walked the 2 miles back to the Swanton vet check, I realized that
something was definitely wrong. Shatirr acted like he wanted to pee,
but couldn't. He stretched, but didn't look crampy, so I just figured
he *was* stretching, something we do alot of at home and on rides. By
the time I hit the check though, I was calling for a vet, and Helen Harvey
helped me strip the tack off Shatirr, who was trying to roll.

He got tons of Banamene (I forget how many injections, I remember 5) was
tubed and oiled and was put on IV fluids (finally a double drip) for hours.
We got into the check at 4:30 or so, and by 7:30 he was still needing
banamene (and something else to stop the spasms I think) and still no real
gut sounds, still cramping and trying to collapse. He was definitely in
trouble... not making much positive progress.

With a prayer, we loaded him in the trailer, me yelling like a cattle drover
to get him moving, him staggering like a drunkin sailor, for the 1.5 hour
ride to Russ Petersons vet clinic/hospital at the Portola Valley Training
Center. After the first 10 minutes, the trailer got quiet, and I really had
to work hard not to loose it mentally. This horse IS my best friend, and
there wasn't any movement as I rounded turns going over the twisty mountain
roads... I started counting telephone poles.... aren't many in the mountains.

When I pulled into the clinic at 9:00, I couldn't look in the trailer (still
no movement...) untill I'd roused the Vet, Lisa. When I dropped down the feed
door, and Shatirr's head popped out, bright eyed with a "Hi!!! Boy, I feel
better! Where are we?" coherent look on his face, I practically passed out
from relief. He looked great compared to what he'd looked like at the camp!

Lisa got him on a drip in a video stall, he was ravenous, so we made him a
bucket and drew blood for tests. She checked him all nigh long, every 20
minutes. Need I say that I recommend the Star Clinic in Portola Valley
very highly?! Especially the Davis vet named Lisa!

The tests all came up perfictly normal. His hydration was good, electrolytes
were good, CPK - all of it looked great. His P&R's were never too high at
any point durring the ride of durring the colic. Dr. Lisa (my limited memory
for names gave out...) ran tests to check everything, and nothing was out
of the ordinary. He looked good. This is almost 5 hours after the onset though.

I'd really like to know if there is anything I could have done differently.

Many folks who "made time" in the morning got pulled for lameness. Us
pokey-types got caught in the heat of the day. Even Stacey and Porter
were denied a completion, and they looked good compared to everyone else.

I started using Equilytes at the Diablo Vista ride and they seemed to work
fine for Shatirr. Because of the heat, I had increased the dosage from 1/2
tube doses to 1 tube at the 1st check right before leaving and a second tube
before leaving the lunch stop. I have been told that up to a certain extent,
excess electrolytes end up in the urine and aren't a problem as long as the
horse is drinking well. I waited untill he'd filled up on food and water,
and he ate and drank well consistantly durring the ride.

I took lots of time to scoop him down, but in retrospect, I could have done
more of it.But not much more.

The vet at the clinic speculated that it may have been heat stroke.

Do you folks back east see this type of problem with the heat and humidity?
What other precautions do you take? Even seasoned riders with 40+ rides
without a pull, were getting pulled.

What's the best thing to do when a colic starts out on a trail like this?
My best call was to continue back to camp slowly. Thank god it was downhill.

Could the icy cold water at the top of the hill caused his colic, even
though we were only there 10 minutes, and continued moving afterwards??

Any insights would be appreciated!

Linda

P.S. This ride was _extremely_ well vetted and assisted, with all of the
vets and volunteers doing a great job at making the best of a terrible day.

One horse died on the trail in the morning, of a heart attack. These folks
were camped next to me, so I knew a bit about the mare, and knew the riders
friends. It was a 1st time horse that wouldn't be controlled, and did lots
of running away early on, and the rider was going to pull her at lunch, but
she collapsed about three miles from camp after being hand walked the last
6 or so miles.

My special thanks to Dr Robert Steere (Steele?) of Petaluma who spent hours
with Shatirr; he was everything I could have hoped for under the circumstances.
Dr Mike Tomlinson was there too, and kept a concerned eye on us and was great
support... Mike you give the spirit a lift just because you are who you are!
Helen Harvey, you were great! I know you would have been there for any horse,
but you were there for us and your attention was *very* appreciated!

Sigh....

------------------------------

From: "Caroline S. Morse" <morse@ctron.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 09:10:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bran mashes

With all this talk of bran mashes, I get the when and why
to feed them. Next: who's got a good recipe? Also, does
anyone feed them for other reasons besides endurance rides?


****************************************************************
\-';\
|/\ ;;---;;\ Caroline & Miss Kitty
_(,___) ) \; (who's no pussycat!)
( / /\\ / morse@ctron.com
/ / |
****************************************************************

------------------------------

From: desertweyr@powergrid.electriciti.com (Ken & Oogie McGuire)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 07:03:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Bran mashes

I'm rather lazy, I make mine by mixing a 1-2 3 pound coffee cans full of
bran with enough water to make medium mushy stuff. I want no dry bran at
all and use a sweat scraper to be sure I get it all mixed. I will add up to
1/2 cup loose salt and occasionally also add carrots as treats. I usually
add 1/5 cup vinegar as well and my horses regular grain ration (either
TizWhiz Broodmare for mares and stallions or TizWhiz regular for growing
horses)

I give bran mashes whenever we have a hot Santa Ana wind and frequently
when it's a full moon. I also cut hay rations to half or less (hay lite
<g>) when it's really hot and dry. I figure all thehorses are too fat
anyway and I can add more grain if they need it.

oogie

- ----------
Ken & Oogie McGuire
Weyr Associates - Computer Consulting, Multimedia Development and Authoring
Desert Weyr Arabians & Mules - CMK bloodlines for trail & endurance
551 Gem Lane, Ramona, CA 92065-3770, (619) 788-6671 FAX (619) 788-6742
URL http://139.121.23.18/

------------------------------

From: desertweyr@powergrid.electriciti.com (Ken & Oogie McGuire)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 07:03:38 -0700
Subject: RE: movement and eye color

>YES, YES, YES, THat's exactly what I mean. I guess I have been lucky in that
>I haven't seen a TRUE cow hock. I will settle with my fake ones anytime.
somehow I had that last go to you privately. Will resend to the list <g> If
you want to see true cow hocks look at most babies from 6 months to 8
months. The vast majority show very slight true cow hocks then. My vet and
I think it's because they are growing and as long as they were correct at
45-55 days of age they seem to be fine at adulthood.
oogie

- ----------
Ken & Oogie McGuire
Weyr Associates - Computer Consulting, Multimedia Development and Authoring
Desert Weyr Arabians & Mules - CMK bloodlines for trail & endurance
551 Gem Lane, Ramona, CA 92065-3770, (619) 788-6671 FAX (619) 788-6742
URL http://139.121.23.18/

------------------------------

From: desertweyr@powergrid.electriciti.com (Ken & Oogie McGuire)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 07:03:45 -0700
Subject: RE: movement and eye color

>Slight cowhock is ok, but I
Just one comment. True cow hocks are when a line from the point of the
stifle goes in tot he hick then out to the fetlock. Like an X if you are
looking from behind. That is IMO a serious fault to be avoided. However, a
young horse with no saddle training and no hills to work on will naturally
tend to be this type of true cowhocked. Most slight cases will straighten
up after they start work if they were correct when foaled.

What I think you are describing is not true cow hocks but a type of
conformation where the entire plane of the leg turns out ever so slightly.
You can drop a plumb line from the hip thru the stifle, fetlock and hoof
but the entire leg is a bit on an angle. WHen looking at the horse directly
from the rear you can see the outside edge of the leg a bit, not much,
about like you are suppose dto be able to see the corner of the horses eye
when they are on the correct bend in a circle. That toed out but straight
conformation does seem to be a good thing for an endurance horse and not
bad for dressage either IMO. I look forward to hearing other viewpoints.

oogie

- ----------
Ken & Oogie McGuire
Weyr Associates - Computer Consulting, Multimedia Development and Authoring
Desert Weyr Arabians & Mules - CMK bloodlines for trail & endurance
551 Gem Lane, Ramona, CA 92065-3770, (619) 788-6671 FAX (619) 788-6742
URL http://139.121.23.18/

------------------------------

From: prevatt@lds.loral.com (Truman Prevatt)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 10:46:24 -0400
Subject: Re: Castle Rock 50 (long, with questions)

Hi Linda,

Sorry to hear about your scare. You might want to read Pete Leberge's
(stories on the WEB) description of the 95 OD. Only 10 riders finished
with the last 8 finishing within a hour of trail closing. There is also a
description of the Barn Builder which was a "survival ride" in FL last Dec.
This ride started with 70 degrees and 90 some % humidity. The results
were not good, one colic, one horse triped at the finish from being too
tired, etc. The War Eagle in AL in March as similar with about 1/2 of the
50 (over 20 horses) and 1/3 of the 25's pulled, all but one for metabolics.
Here again a horse tripped at the end because of tirdness. This was a very
humid ride.

I believe the horses in the East have an advantage in handling adverse heat
conditions because they are exposed to it and train in it. When the ROC
was held at LBL (Kentucky) it took its toll on the horses not used to the
heat/humidity.

My persoanl belief is that for hot rides it is only going to get hotter as
the day goes on, so I tend to make time when I can - early, in the shade,
etc. However, the best time is not the first hour. While it is cooler at
that time the humidity is the higest. Usually about an hour after the ride
starts seems to be the best time.

Under these conditions I am very concerned with the metabolic indicatiors,
in particular gut sounds. If the gut shuts down, bad things can happen.
So I question the vet about the gut sounds. Since this is a somewhat
subjective measure, I will check them myself after the ckeck and again
before I go back out if the vet doesn't say an "A". While I have not had
colic at a ride, I would try to get the horse to drink and drink and drink,
assuming she would. If I could I would send for help and start walking
slowly. I'd also check the gut sounds (probably none) and if the horse
showed interest in eatting I let her eat.

If I am not wrong Equilytes are a permixed electrolyte supplement. In most
of these there is very little electrolye present - especially considering
the amount the horse loses. I have had great success with endurolytes.
Misty seems to recover much better since I started using endurolytes. I
used a home made mixture before. I give about an ounce (35 mm film can
full) at every vet check. Under hot/humid conditions I will go up to
double that amount. This is assuming she is drinking well.

If the horse is not drinking well, I don't give any electrolytes. I gave
electrolytes at the Edenburg Gap crew point on the 94 OD. It was a warm
day (low 80) and a little humid, but not bad for East cost June weather.
This point is about 62 miles in the ride. From the 54 mile vet check to
this point it is all up and down accross finger ridges and because of the
dry spring weather there was no trail water.

At the crew stop Misty drink some water and I electrolyted and off we went.
The mistake - I was about 2 1/2 hours ahead of the vet closing and had
plenty of time. I should have taked 15 minutes and let the horse get fully
hydrated. Giving the electrolytes caused more harm than good at that
point. By the time we got to the next check her gut sounds were very
dimished and we pulled. She drink about five gallons of water there and
was fine in two hours when we arrived back at camp. BTW the head vet was
the vet that checked her at 68 miles. I talked with him the next moring
about electrolytes. He suggested I try endurolytes and I think they have
made a difference.

One final thing. I want the horse eatting. Grass along the trail, hay,
brand mash with grain, apples, carrots, anything at all as long as she is
eatting. Eatting keeps the gut moving. When the gut stops so will the
horse. Many horses stop drinking when they stop eatting. So the hotter
the day the more time I take to let the horse eat. I have evolved to the
procedures I now use and they seem to be working fairly well. At the Long
Leaf 100 in Mississippi in April, at 70 miles the vet didn't check the gut
and I asked him why not. His comment was he could hardly hear the heart
beat from the gut sounds so the gut was doing fine. That is what I like to
hear.

Hope you have better luck next time.

Truman

Original Post (edited)
>
>I started using Equilytes at the Diablo Vista ride and they seemed to work
>fine for Shatirr. Because of the heat, I had increased the dosage from 1/2
>tube doses to 1 tube at the 1st check right before leaving and a second tube
>before leaving the lunch stop. I have been told that up to a certain extent,
>excess electrolytes end up in the urine and aren't a problem as long as the
>horse is drinking well. I waited untill he'd filled up on food and water,
>and he ate and drank well consistantly durring the ride.
>
>I took lots of time to scoop him down, but in retrospect, I could have done
>more of it.But not much more.
>
>The vet at the clinic speculated that it may have been heat stroke.
>
>Do you folks back east see this type of problem with the heat and humidity?
>What other precautions do you take? Even seasoned riders with 40+ rides
>without a pull, were getting pulled.
>
>What's the best thing to do when a colic starts out on a trail like this?
>My best call was to continue back to camp slowly. Thank god it was downhill.
>
>Could the icy cold water at the top of the hill caused his colic, even
>though we were only there 10 minutes, and continued moving afterwards??
>
>Any insights would be appreciated!
>
>Linda
>
>P.S. This ride was _extremely_ well vetted and assisted, with all of the
>vets and volunteers doing a great job at making the best of a terrible day.
>
>One horse died on the trail in the morning, of a heart attack. These folks
>were camped next to me, so I knew a bit about the mare, and knew the riders
>friends. It was a 1st time horse that wouldn't be controlled, and did lots
>of running away early on, and the rider was going to pull her at lunch, but
>she collapsed about three miles from camp after being hand walked the last
>6 or so miles.
>
>My special thanks to Dr Robert Steere (Steele?) of Petaluma who spent hours
>with Shatirr; he was everything I could have hoped for under the circumstances.
>Dr Mike Tomlinson was there too, and kept a concerned eye on us and was great
>support... Mike you give the spirit a lift just because you are who you are!
>Helen Harvey, you were great! I know you would have been there for any horse,
>but you were there for us and your attention was *very* appreciated!
>
>Sigh....

______________________________________________________________________________

The race is not always to the swift, but to those that keep running.

Truman and Mystic "The Horse from HELL" Storm

prevatt@lds.loral.com
____________________________________________________________________________
__

------------------------------

From: linda_cowles@MENTORG.COM (Linda Cowles @ PCB x5624)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 09:17:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Castle Rock 50 (long, with questions)

Thanks for the great feedback Truman, you were _one_ person I really wanted
to hear from!

On Jun 27, 10:46am, Truman Prevatt wrote:
> Subject: Re: Castle Rock 50 (long, with questions)

> I believe the horses in the East have an advantage in handling adverse heat
> conditions because they are exposed to it and train in it. When the ROC
> was held at LBL (Kentucky) it took its toll on the horses not used to the
> heat/humidity.

Yeah, and I had indications several weeks earlier, on a training ride,
that Shatirr was going to have trouble in humid/hot conditions when my
HRM consistantly jumped 20 to 40 beats over his normal pulse at that location
in hot but dry conditions.

> My persoanl belief is that for hot rides it is only going to get hotter as
> the day goes on, so I tend to make time when I can - early, in the shade,
> etc. However, the best time is not the first hour. While it is cooler at
> that time the humidity is the higest. Usually about an hour after the ride
> starts seems to be the best time.

This is a good strategy, but the AM trails had a lot of either pavement-hard
road or beach-like sand for footing; my suspicion is that only very focused
and observant riders were able to pull this strategy off. Jan Jeffers was
successful applying this strategy by jogging/ easy trotting in the morning,
moving steady but not seriously moving out. In retrospect, I would have ridden
a slow, steady trot whenever possible in the am, to try and get a bit ahead....
although that would have put me on the hardest hill, in the sun, during the
heat of the day. Hmmmm... I guess it would be a call as to which would work
best... The heat had dissapated slightly when I hit it at 3:00. But not much.

Like I said to Tommy earlier, I love this area, love the ride. I wish
Lud and Barbara would run it backwards, with the hills in the morning.
Although the hill out of the 1st vet leading to the Lockheed land and
the white shale ridges doesn't appeal to me in the afternoon either ;^).
Tough ride, all around.

> Under these conditions I am very concerned with the metabolic indicatiors,
> in particular gut sounds. If the gut shuts down, bad things can happen.
> So I question the vet about the gut sounds. Since this is a somewhat
> subjective measure, I will check them myself after the ckeck and again
> before I go back out if the vet doesn't say an "A". While I have not had
> colic at a ride, I would try to get the horse to drink and drink and drink,
> assuming she would. If I could I would send for help and start walking
> slowly. I'd also check the gut sounds (probably none) and if the horse
> showed interest in eatting I let her eat.

This is good info... I used to ride with a 1 gal baggie of dry bran mash
in case of emergencies, and I'm going to restart it. I use to put enough
bran and crimped oats in a zip-lock bag so that one large water bottle
would make a wet emergency-mash. I'd carry a total of about 1 scoop.

And I'm going back to riding with my stethescope, maybe even buying a
better one. I have never had this type of problem, and was a bit careless
about monitoring gut sounds. I probably tend to over-rely on my HRM to give
me feedback, and his pulse and respiration were great.

<snip>

> the amount the horse loses. I have had great success with endurolytes.
> Misty seems to recover much better since I started using endurolytes. I
> used a home made mixture before. I give about an ounce (35 mm film can
> full) at every vet check. Under hot/humid conditions I will go up to
> double that amount. This is assuming she is drinking well.

Do you give them dry? I have just dumped dry electrolytes into Shatirr
before (then hold his lips together while chanting the much hated phrase
"NO Spitting!" over and over, and maybe wiggling a finger on his tongue,
in the bit location, to stimulate swallowing), but worried that this dry
salty stuff on his tongue may discourage eating and drinking later...
He really likes the molassas-tube types, and will even let me "administer"
them while mounted.

Kerry Ridgeway commented that the mixture I was using was a bit thin for
endurance as well, and I was going to switch over to his mixture (after
finding dolomite at $5.00 for 50 pounds at the hardware store - it's also
used for marking lines on soccer fields, arrows on endurance rides etc. -
the price is about $.12 per ounce of home-made electrolytes) but don't
like to change things before a ride. Home-mixes are really messy when
mixed with molassas for tubing too. I will try the Endurolytes.

Oh and regarding a previous "discussion" about dousing the whole horse
with water (butt and all), Kerry's comment was that this is like everything
else; it depends! It depends on the temp, humidity, wind and on the horses
constitution. Some horses (like Shatirr) chill easily, others can tolerate
dousing with cold water year 'round. While I didn't exactly throw icy water
on Shatirrs butt (particularly not being 6 miles back in the boonies and
never having done it before), because of the high humidity, I did give him
a wet wiping down over those larger muscles untill the skin temperture
dropped to what I percieved to be normal. It did seem to cool him off
faster, but it's something I intend to remain cautious about.

I get into plenty of trouble with this horse even when I am cautious!

Talk to you later! Linda

>-- End of excerpt from Truman Prevatt

------------------------------

From: Stacy A Berger <Stacy_A_Berger@ccm.sc.intel.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 95 09:03:00 PDT
Subject: Endurolytes vs Equilytes

Text item:

>If I am not wrong Equilytes are a permixed electrolyte supplement. In most
>of these there is very little electrolye present - especially considering
>the amount the horse loses. I have had great success with endurolytes.
>Misty seems to recover much better since I started using endurolytes. I
>used a home made mixture before. I give about an ounce (35 mm film can
>full) at every vet check. Under hot/humid conditions I will go up to
>double that amount. This is assuming she is drinking well.

Truman-

Actually Endurolytes and Equilytes are the same, both mixed by Vetline. (At
least Vetline markets products with the same name) The Endurolytes are the
powder mixture, the Equilytes are in a molasses/amino acid mixture base packaged
in an oral syringe.

Stacy

Text item: External Message Header

The following mail header is for administrative use
and may be ignored unless there are problems.

***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***.

Precedence: list
Sender: owner-endurance@moscow.com
Cc: endurance@moscow.com
Subject: Re: Castle Rock 50 (long, with questions)
From: prevatt@lds.loral.com (Truman Prevatt)
To: linda_cowles@MENTORG.COM (Linda Cowles @ PCB x5624)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 10:46:24 -0400
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Message-Id: <v01510100ac15bea295de@[158.186.226.151]>
X-Sender: prevatt@sps070
Received: from [158.186.226.151] (sps151) by sps070.lds.loral.com (4.1/SMI-4.1)
id AA17550; Tue, 27 Jun 95 10:51:49 EDT
Received: from sps070.lds.loral.com by mail (4.1/LDS-4.0)
id AA17557; Tue, 27 Jun 95 10:48:49 EDT
Received: from mail (mail.lds.loral.com [158.186.201.80]) by grouper.moscow.com
(8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id GAA22258 for <endurance@moscow.com>; Tue, 27 Jun 199
5 06:39:15 -0700
Received: (from majordom@localhost) by grouper.moscow.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id GAA2
2262 for endurance-outgoing; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 06:39:27 -0700
Received: from grouper.moscow.com by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP
id QQyvyh17535; Tue, 27 Jun 1995 10:49:43 -0400
Received: from relay2.UU.NET by hermes.intel.com (5.65/10.0i); Tue, 27 Jun 95 08
:08:40 -0700
Received: from hermes.intel.com by prairie.sc.intel.com with smtp
(Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0sQcDO-0002Q6C; Tue, 27 Jun 95 08:06 WET DST

------------------------------

End of endurance-digest V1 #45
******************************