Ridecamp: Re: Re[2]: [RC] carbohydrate fuel

> > All are surely different - its all based on their basal metabolism
> and how they process the 'sugars' - Glucose Tolerance Factor. More
> science from Susan G here??

I agree, every horse is different, based on insulin production and cellular
insulin resistance.  There's actually very little known about this
phenomenon in horses---KER has been looking at it in recent years, but last
I checked, hasn't come close to fully exploring it yet.  Sarah Ralston at
Rutger has published research on it as well.  You really do need to do your
homework with carbs and spend time working out the protocol that works for
each horse.

Roger, you commented that views regarding carbs have matured in recent years
(did I get that right?)  Having discussed this topic with physiologists,
nutritionists and such for several years, I think the initial concern was
that there *are* limits and caveats to the use of any carbohydrate, and
worry that such supplements would be used to replace conditioning, and/or
used to the exclusion of other common sense management practices, like
adequate fiber, fluids, etc.  Most riders IMO have done a pretty good job of
playing around with it and working out the kinks and honestly, I haven't
heard of a single horse that was seriously damaged by the use of carbocharge
type products.  I *have* heard of numerous horses damaged by poor rider
judgment, but that occurs with or without carbs.

Allison, you made a comment that barring stupidity, you can't overdo the
carbocharge.  Actually, there are scenarios where carb supplements s might
be more of a hindrance than a benefit, ie in a seriously dehydrated horse.
The reason is because a lot of glucose in the small intestine can produce an
osmotic gradient (similar to salt in a salt shaker drawing air humidity to
itself) and thus either draw water from the blood circulation into the lumen
of the gut (not good and possibly critical, depending on the dehydration
level of the horse) or at least slowing down the movement of water from the
gut into circulation.  It's confusing, because you need a little glucose to
transport sodium and chloride into circulation---but *too* much glucose (or
electrolytes), and you hamper water absorption.  How much glucose does it
take to hamper water absorption---I don't know.  Jon Linderman might have an
idea, it occurs in human athletes as well.  My opinion is that 4 ounces in
an hour isn't nearly enough to be a problem, especially if the carb source
is a maltodextrin versus a simple sugar like pancake syrup.  Six or eight
ounces an hour, I would guess that would be a concern.  Stay away from those
levels (and pay attention to preventing dehydration in the first place) and
I'd guess you'd be fine.

>
> Thats  why I believe it so important to test the Blood Gl levels to
> develop the horses baseline for 'cause and effect'.  Once I have the
> correlation to work to carbs and glucose levels, its easy to adjust.

I agree.  There is *never* a replacement for doing your homework for your
own horse.  Life would be much simpler if the darn critters would just read
the textbooks and follow the rules. <g>


> I would really like to test at rides but if they outlaw that then I
> have to go on home testing results. Then 'guess' if we increase work
> effort at a ride.

I would be sorry if simple glucometers were outlawed.  I can see not
allowing the really fancy-shmancy field analysis equipment like i-Stats, but
glucometers are cheap enough to be accessible to everyone and a worthwhile
tool to assess the horse's metabolic status.


> I suspect it would be difficult to really OD - as Allison said- at a
> ride while the horse is working.

If you kept the doses within reasonable limits, and dosed them frequently
and consistently, I would agree.  I think the problems are likely to occur
as described above if the horse were significantly dehydrated, and a really
large dose were administered all at once.  There *are* significant caveats
to be concerned with if the carbohydrate source were grain, but that's
something else entirely.  And even those are avoided if you keep the meals
under four pounds and fed frequently.

. That is you cannot ask for more work then he is capable of
> performing. You can only work him to the level you have conditioned
> him for.  The mistake one makes is to allow the horse to work beyond
> his condition. Just because he has the desire to move out and feels
> strong - does NOT mean he CAN or SHOULD. You have to throttle him back

YES YES YES.  That's it in a nutshell. :-)

Susan G



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