Ridecamp: Re: [RC] carbohydrate fuel

not. >g< Discussion of the carbs is a heck of a lot more interesting and
> relevent than most of what I'm getting on here lately...and it doesn't
> lend itself to mindless chit chat.

I agree with Angie, so she and I can start a polite public discussion and
anyone else can join in or not, as they please. :-)

>Are they fueling these horses with
> carbo-charge.  Does less hold time benefit them?  Will a horse's gut
> continue to move with just carbs or must he not EAT?

I don't know all of the FEI horses/riders, but I talk to a pretty fair
number of them via private chats.  Some are on carbo products, some aren't.
It really is an individual thing and one protocol doesn't work for every
horse.

As for less hold times, whether or not that's beneficial really varies, too.
Individual ride conditions undoubtedly make a big difference, so this
opinion is just from the pure physiology point of view.  How much rest is
beneficial depends on the stress on the body at the time.  Maximum blood
circulation to the organs actually occurs at right around 20% VO2max---in
anti-buzzword english, that's usually an easy trot for most horses.  So,
assuming you don't have major metabolic issues occurring (and of course no
lameness), you'll clear lactates faster and keep the guts happier if the
horse keeps moving and *doesn't* just stand at a trailer doing nothing.
Although it seems contrary, you actually dissipate heat faster if you keep
moving a bit too, unless you're actively sponging the horse (which sometimes
does and sometimes doesn't help cool the horse, depending on how you do it).

OTOH, just because a horse is at a VC doesn't mean he's resting or eating,
though presumably an FEI horse should have learned those tricks by now.  The
horse really does need to keep eating to maintain the system at optimum
levels, and less time spent at checks usually means less opportunity for the
horse to eat.  I know, ideally, that hold time can instead be spent on the
trail taking a few minutes here and there to graze on the trail or whatever.
Realistically, I don't think that's happening as much as it should at those
levels of competition.  If there were, I wouldn't get the deluge of emails
that I do after the fact asking why their horses ran so great last season
and crashed with 'mysterious' renal problems this season.  Duh.  That isn't
happening just at FEI level, it happens at *every* level, but IMO, the
common denominator is management during the ride and how much food and water
is getting into the horse.  Getting food into the stomach doesn't just
provide energy, it also affects drinking response, gut motility,
cardiovascular patterns---A LOT of different things that you just can't
totally replace with a syringe (and I'm not saying everyone is trying to do
that...but a few are and it just doesn't work that way, not in the long
run).  Performance really is a Big Picture kind of thing.

I know there are opinions that horses can run and win without anything other
than water and some carbs squirted down their throat.  Energy-wise, that's
probably very true.  However, carbs alone are only one fairly small piece of
keeping the guts moving.  Gut motility during a ride is largely a function
of hormonal control (stress, excitement, motilin, cardiovascular controls,
etc), dehydration, riding within limits (so the body doesn't go into
emergency mode and shunt blood away from the guts) and yes, energy balance.
Carbs alone aren't going to accomplish all of that, just part of it.  I'm
pretty conservative myself when it comes to health vs. performance, and I
don't think it's advisable to ever run a horse (at any level) without giving
him frequent opportunities to eat some sort of fiber source---green grass,
beet pulp, carrots, hay or whatever.


> I read the article in "The Horse" that was posted.  They said it wasn't
> so much *how much* grain you fed as "how much at a time" (that could over
> do it).  I've been feeding more grain during rides but was curious as to
> where "the line" falls.  Any opinions on this?  Susan?

Ray Geor is terrific.  His articles in The Horse about feeding fat and about
condition scoring are also very worthwhile reading (okay, I'm biased about
the last topic, because he cites some of my stuff)<g>.  Anyway, I agree with
his suggestions, always have.  How many times have you heard the phrase
"small and frequent" when it comes to feeding anything, especially carbs
(and fats, and e'lytes, etc etc)?  It's not just my idea, it's just a basic
fact of equine nutrition---small and frequent of virtually anything other
than water gets digested, absorbed and utilized better than big deluges.

So, Angie's question is how much grain to feed per meal during a ride before
you overdo it.  I think the *exact* amount is individual to each horse, not
only based on the physiological response, but also what is the horse
*willing* to eat?  My own guy Cato won't eat much grain outside a VC, but
he'll scarf carrots as long as I hand them out---and 7 pounds of fresh
carrots equals the energy in a pound of grain, PLUS a gallon of water.
Dakota will happily eat grain (or carrots, or hay or grass) any time, any
place and once he starts competing, I'll try to offer him a few bites of
something every hour or less.

Anyway, the general guideline which should apply to every horse is, *never*
more than 4-5 pounds of grain at any one meal (less for Icelandics, ponies,
etc).  More than that at one time, and you overwhelm the small intestine's
enzymatic capacity to break down and absorb starch.  The leftovers get
bypassed into the cecum and fermented by the microbial population, which in
turn can adversely affect pH, the balance of the microbial populations, and
possibly produce gas colic, laminitis and so on.  So, one pound every hour
for four hours is a lot better than four pounds once every four hours.  Half
a pound every half hour is better.  Don't worry about exact amounts, just
think small and frequent.

Speaking strictly from the performance perspective, sporadic large meals of
grain aren't as good as small and frequent, either.  Large influxes of
starch means a large increase in blood glucose, and a subsequent large spike
in insulin, which then snatches away all that glucose and adversely affects
fat metabolism (still important) and so on.  There are more details in the
metabolic articles on my website, but the bottom line is that you don't want
big spikes in blood glucose, you want a nice steady continuous level.  When
Roger commented on the use of maltodextrins, that's why---maltodextrins
produce a steadier glucose curve than does either honey or straight sugar
(ie, sucrose) from pancake syrup, frosting, etc.  Starch from grain falls
somewhere in the middle depending on whether you're feeding corn, oats, the
particle sizes and so on.  Large sporadic meals also affect fluid balance, a
BIG deal, but you'll have to read the website article for that.

So, the 'faster' the carb source breaks down, the more up-and-down your
glucose spikes are going to be, and the more often you have to dose/feed to
maintain the curve.  Not easy to do.  The slower the glucose 'dribble', the
less often you have to dose to maintain the curve, but you do still have to
keep up with it consistently.  Rogers seems to do fine with dosing at every
VC, most of the riders I talk to see improvement dosing a little more often
than that, depending on the ride, speed and conditions.  Consistency,
regardless of the carbohydrate source, is really important.

My general suggestion is to either dose an ounce or two of carbs every hour
or so beginning an hour before the start (no pre-loading) and an opportunity
to eat a few mouthfuls of some sort of fiber (sloppy beet pulp or green
grass of course being my favorites, with fresh carrots being very useful as
well) at least every one or two hours as well.  Ideally, I'd like to see the
horse basically noshing his way from point A to point B, but that ain't
entirely feasible.  I never get through a ride without stopping for
*something* every hour or so and that's when I hand out more carrots or stop
to graze, or whatever.  If you have to stop, just do it near a patch of
grass, or hand out a couple of carrots, or a mouthful of grain.

I've seriously lost count of the riders that have had fewer metabolic,
slow-gut problems and better overall performance when they paid more
attention to getting small and frequent meals into their horse.  Everyone
has to count success in their own way, and personally, I get a lot more
pleasure hearing about a previous metabolic problem child that's now sailing
through rides than I do from hearing about someone just able to go faster.
But, that's just me.  :-))

Hope this discussion continues. :-)

Susan G



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