Ridecamp: RE: Re[2]: [RC] Protecting Horses / vet checks

Roger:

Your concept has a great many "if's" in it that would have
to be made into "must's" in order to work.

I would conjecture that if the current rules were enforced
we would not be having this discussion. There would be a
"substantive" inspection of each horse at all checks rather
than the more usual cursory ones now in vogue. Yes, I know I
will hear that the vetting is superb but it could be better
and in "complete" conformance with the AERC Rules at many
rides.

Rides could be better managed from the view point of the
course. I refuse to say trail, as most do not use trail
these days. If it were so we would have less problems. Fewer
"flat tracks" would do wonders for the horse.

But we must remember the RM has to provide what the riders
want (just why we gave up on managing rides) and difficult
horse friendly trails are not what is wanted.

Well, you and I will not solve the problem so it will be
interesting to see what happens.

Bob

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ridecamp-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Roger
Rittenhouse
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 4:41 PM
To: Bob Morris
Cc: ridecamp
Subject: Re[2]: [RC] Protecting Horses / vet checks


Bob  Good points - but -- look at NATRC  MOST all the pulse
checks
there is NO vet  - Now of course that is 'just' a CTR and
they may or
may not be stressed as much as a hi profile fast running
'race'  but
its done all the time.

Now back to the horse that does crash - the majority of the
times a
horse starts to get colicky at a VC there is normally a
significant
amount of time from   the point where  the horse begins to
show distress to the
point  major veterinary treatment is applied. Even in the SE
we want
to wait an amount of time to see if the horse will work out
of the
problem.
In the very rare situation where a horse goes down hard at
one of
these Pulse Check Points  (PCP)   hehehe   - the horse could
be loaded
fast and brought back to camp. It would have to be setup for
these
PCP to insure a truck and trailer was on site ready to roll.
The other option would be to get the vet there, a REAL
problem for
the one-vet- rides. Sort of why we REALLY want to enforce
the two vet
rule - but that is not done at ALL rides.
Problem associated with ONE vet is the same - he would have
to stop
vetting the ride and work on the sick horse  - no matter the
situation.

I would not be claiming the horse is fit-to-continue, the
PCP would
say the horse failed to meet the pulse parameter and would
be 'pulled'
at a standard VC no matter what the vet decided, the failed
pulse
within the  30 minutes parameter can not or should not ever
be over-ruled
by a vet.
This 'pull' is not based on a veterinary exam - but a hard
number
verifiable by any qualified pulse taker. It is not a
veterinary
decision. Its objective - right - a fixed hard number.

Now the horse must be examined by a vet upon arrival back
at camp.
But the pull was was based on a real number and not an
opinion or
exam.

I still content we could use this protocol instead of a
second VC -
which we both know is  a 'never gone to happen deal'  just
as the 2 vet
rule, there will rides where this will never happen and AERC
will never
make it happen.

Would you prefer to let the one vet - one vc protocol at
rides
continue based on your suggestion of a horse that is stopped
MIGHT
crash hard.  An extreme possibility.  The probability is
that horse
might just survive at this hold  but if continued on would
'really' crash hard at
the end.  ( this assumes the VC was at mid point 25 miles
and the PCP
would be at say 40 miles)

I would take the chance.. and cover the odds as best I
could.

Roger R

BM> OK Roger:

BM> Try this argument; we seldom see problems on the trail.
No,
BM> I am not saying we do not have problems on the trail but
BM> they are of the minority. The problems seem to occur
when
BM> the horse is in the process of descending from the
BM> adrenaline high they have been running on.

BM> So, you get to the pulse stop and 10 minutes into the
stop
BM> your horse shows signs of having a problem. NO VET! SICK
BM> HORSE! MANAGEMENT IN TROUBLE!

BM> If you have the control you must have the support for
that
BM> control.

BM> Now, in a regular stop with a vet in attendance you
ALWAYS
BM> have the second opinion of a professional when there is
a
BM> question about pulse. There have been times I have had
to
BM> resort to this second opinion in order to continue on in
the
BM> ride. Non-Vets do not have the experience to make the
go-no
BM> go decisions. How many thousand horses have I pulsed
over
BM> the years? But I still do not have the
experience/authority
BM> to say a horse is not fit to continue.

BM> Bob

BM> Bob Morris
BM> Morris Endurance Enterprises
BM> Boise, ID



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=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 Ridecamp is a service of Endurance Net, http://www.endurance.net.
 Information, Policy, Disclaimer: http://www.endurance.net/Ridecamp
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=